***SPOILERS*** Naruto 87 Discussion

[Krbadass]

good ep eh?

[moo-san]

burst that ballon boy!

[chambers]

iam getting mighty fed up with these cliff hanger type eps.
also has anyone else noticed how WIDE jira is? the guy most be totaly buff under all that crap he wears.

[Uchiha-Itachi]

Cliffhanger eps? can you explain that?

imo this was a cool episode .. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

My first thought @ Naruto scratching that balloon it looked kinda silly, but its effective so! eat that Jiraiya! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[Aeon]

It looks like Naruto is gonna master the technique that took the 4th 3yrs to master in about 6mths. 1mth for the water balloon, 2for the rubberball and 3mths for whatever the third part is going to be. And Jaraiya has to be the best at information gathering.

[tensai]

hey im gonna look for information....................goes to womens lounge and sit there everyday for three weeks
Naruto learns from looking at other similar experiences, but i cant believe it took the fourth 3 years to do that technique
i liked how naruto did the explosion, the first time he did it to wake up jiraiya looked like he popped it with a pin though
so, is narutos way of doing it (with two hands) more effective? looks like hes preparing to shoot a fireball or chakraball

[Uchiha Barles]

It was definately a cool ep. I like how Naruto looked at the cat to come up with a method of his own to burst the balloon. Very kung fu-ey. Naruto's definately no regular ninja even without the demon fox. Also, I liked that they showed the childhood he missed out on, and the fact that he's forced to grow up so quickly without really having that father figure type in his life. Very well done.

[Mut]

NARUTO SUCKS, HE NEED TWO HANDS TO DO IT WHEN JIRAIYA CAN DO IT WITH ONE. HAHAHA WHAT A NEWB.

[dragon]

its still good...he jux started doing the tech..anyways...2 hands is kinda a good start....wait till u seee him wif the demon fox chakra....it look like a flaming ball of water

[orn210]

was a good episode and wondering when will naruto be able to do that jutsu by one hand but it even took 4th 3 years to master so no wonder it to be this hard

[Shadow-wolf]

When we say that it took the 4th 3 years to master this technique, aren't we really saying that it took him 3 years to "create" the technique.

[deadlydreamx]

When we say that it took the 4th 3 years to master this technique, aren't we really saying that it took him 3 years to "create" the technique.

yea your right cause jiraya said that it was the technique left behind by the forth hokage

[Pyron]

another good none fighting episode. damn that rubber ball!

[Masamune]

i liked this episode.
it made me see naruto's pain due to the excess chakra straining far better then the manga....
well to me anyway

wonder how many stamp card Jiraiya will get full =D

[thundrakkon]

That technique looks to be cool. It's only 2 levels from the top. It has to be a better move than Chidori, and looks to have the potential to be really powerful.

On a side note, what is Jiraiya doing? I thought he brought Naruto along to train and protect him; however, he is leaving Naruto alone most of the day for many days. What if Itachi decides to come back? Naruto will not have a chance, considering he is so exhausted from training.

[kage_bunshin]

the ep was pretty good.

jiraiya is one seriously perverted hermit.

[M1N10N]

I don't think he's too worried about Itachi, but only Jiraiya knows why. and the training, well, any of us that graduated highschool will tell you that there are somethings that cannot be simply 'taught', they must be discovered. Besides, Naruto is pretty dim, he probably wouldn't be able to comprehend an in depth explanation of the technique.

I'm really stoked to see how he implements the new move though... think Nine Tails Chakra, Kage-Bunshin, and attacking with that new 'unnamed' jutsu!!.... *drools*.... I picture a combo reminiscent of Lee juggling Gaara in the air like a pinball machine after opening the inner gates.

Edit: How can I use a personal Avatar? doesn't seem to be an option under profile. <-- found in a different thread. disregard.

[LaZie]

I wish i had a dad like Jiraiya =P atleast he would buy me a popsicle that snaps


P.S. How come when I play the more recent episodes, the sound kinda skips every few minutes?

[Jessper]

Originally posted by: chambers
iam getting mighty fed up with these cliff hanger type eps.
also has anyone else noticed how WIDE jira is? the guy most be totaly buff under all that crap he wears.

Sometimes he is drawn quite wide(when he is holding the girl and facing Itachi) and sometimes not so it's kind of confusing.

I liked the episode and can't wait for the next one.

[ShinobiNeko]

I liked the episode too, glad that it won't take as long for naruto to learn the jutsu

[kage_bunshin]

oh yeah one more thing from me.

the part where jiraiya shares his ice lolly with naruto was pretty touching. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[Uchiha Barles]

Yeah it was. Felt so bad for Naruto that episode. Guess Jiraiya isn't so heartless, perverted bastard.

To Moo (below): Anyone can come up with their own technique. If you're the one who came up with it, then you're the first to know it. Anyone who knows it after must have somehow, directly or indirectly gotten it from you. It's entirely possible that the 4th taught the technique to Jiraiya. If I'm not mistaken, he also taught the death seal technique to the third.

[moo-san]

Originally posted by: Shadow-wolf
When we say that it took the 4th 3 years to master this technique, aren't we really saying that it took him 3 years to "create" the technique.

Didnt Jiraya teach the 4th the technique?
Just a thought, as I can't see the 4th Teaching his teacher how to do it?

[NomoZ]

Originally posted by: moo-san


Originally posted by: Shadow-wolf
When we say that it took the 4th 3 years to master this technique, aren't we really saying that it took him 3 years to "create" the technique.

Didnt Jiraya teach the 4th the technique?
Just a thought, as I can't see the 4th Teaching his teacher how to do it?

How cant you see that? He was Hokage, he surpassed Jiraiya.

And to shadow wolf, he may have created it but it still probably took him time to master it.

[tensai]

i remember jiraiya saying its the technique that the fourth left behind, which means that its probably him that created the jutsu
mastering a technique is the hardest when your the first one to attempt it, if its easy than anyone could have thought of doing it


P.S. How come when I play the more recent episodes, the sound kinda skips every few minutes?
try turning the volume up on other applications
like when i watch stuff on kazaa with low volume, then i watch stuff on wmp, it skips even if you have it on full volume (in wmp), so what i did was go to kazaa and turn up the volume on that, it solved my problem, i dont think its a codec problem or anything

[orn210]

Originally posted by: NomoZ


Originally posted by: moo-san


Originally posted by: Shadow-wolf
When we say that it took the 4th 3 years to master this technique, aren't we really saying that it took him 3 years to "create" the technique.

Didnt Jiraya teach the 4th the technique?
Just a thought, as I can't see the 4th Teaching his teacher how to do it?

How cant you see that? He was Hokage, he surpassed Jiraiya.

And to shadow wolf, he may have created it but it still probably took him time to master it.

yeah 4th even surpassed 3rd

[DarthEnderX]

Also, with the waterballoon, I don't think he was scratching it to pop it. See, he right hand is the hand he was swirling the chakra with, so if he put his hand on different sides of the balloon while swirling, it would cause the water to swirl in multiple directions, which is exactly how he explained it.

[jing]

Obviously he wasn't scratching it.

[moo-san]

Originally posted by: NomoZ


Originally posted by: moo-san


Originally posted by: Shadow-wolf
When we say that it took the 4th 3 years to master this technique, aren't we really saying that it took him 3 years to "create" the technique.

Didnt Jiraya teach the 4th the technique?
Just a thought, as I can't see the 4th Teaching his teacher how to do it?

How cant you see that? He was Hokage, he surpassed Jiraiya.

And to shadow wolf, he may have created it but it still probably took him time to master it.

good point
(Just thought Jiraiya was good at teaching it i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif)

[kakash11]

err.. you guys are getting it all wrong... the 2nd test is twice as hard as the first test... so imagine the 3rd test. thats gonna be like 3 times as hard as the 2nd test.. and thats REALLY hard.

In my opinion, I don't think Naruto will take 3 years to learn it but it sure won't take 6 months. Plus Naruto hasn't even completed part 2 of the test yet. He's only made a hole in it. He still has to explode it. Well whatever my opinion is he won't do it in 6 months but he will do it before 3 years.

[Uzumaki Naruto]

great eps

[wirm]

The 4th never surpassed the 3rd. The only person to do that was probably Orochimaru, and that's debatable.

[Aeon]

There is no way Oro surpassed The 3rd,if that was the case he wouldn't have needed the 1st and 2nd as backup in his fight with him.

[Assertn]

its stated oro wouldnt be better than the 3rd if the 3rd hadnt gotten so old

[CapsuleCorpJX]

You have to realize that the Fourth invented the technique. When Jiyara said it took the Fourth 3 years, most likely the Fourth was just experimenting on and off, and doing it by trial and error.

Of course nobody knows for sure but I believe:
Young 3rd > Jiraya > 4th >= Itachi >= Tsuande >= Orochimaru > Old 3rd

It seems to be hinted that the young third was the strongest and most skilled ninja of all history, they called him the professor.

Even Itachi is scared of Jiraya, so I'm assuming for now Jiraya is the strongest.

[Assertn]

ive only seen the raw, so im not sure.....but did it even say anywhere about who created that move?

alot of these techniques couldve been developed hundreds of years ago and stashed away in scrolls or whatnot, but only people who are at a very high jutsu level ever consider learning them.

[Aeon]

but did it even say anywhere about who created that move?
Jaraiya just called it the technique that the 4th left behind.

[chambers]

yeah i also think that jira was stronger than the 4th, its just that obvioulsy the 4th was FAR more devouted to his village than jira was. also we know that hokage's are picked on potential as well so mayeb the 4th had more potential but his life was cut short?

[itsgalf]

Good Episode, but really, Jaraiya could help out, that bastard~! There's nothing wrong with giving hints...

[Uchiha Barles]

How Jiraiya is going about teaching Naruto the technique isn't bad at all. It's all about making Naruto come to the realization that needs to be less dependant.

[Eurasian]

87 is a great episode, but they need to hurry. i really want to see naruto do the technique. jiraiya needs to keep his hormones down. and yeah, the pop stickle (or however u spell that) scene is moving. how paternal of him~i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif sometimes, naruto is really smart. i still don't know why he didn't pass the school exams the first 3 times.

[jing]

Originally posted by: Eurasian
87 is a great episode, but they need to hurry. i really want to see naruto do the technique. jiraiya needs to keep his hormones down. and yeah, the pop stickle (or however u spell that) scene is moving. how paternal of him~i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif sometimes, naruto is really smart. i still don't know why he didn't pass the school exams the first 3 times.

thats because he falls for obvious traps, make flashy entrances, gets 1000 years of pained, he pronounced chakra wrong the first time he said it, farted in kiba's face, hangs around with an academy student, got tied up to a wooden pole, got owned by cat and dog.

[ShinobiNeko]

lol, that about sums it up

[LostAngel]

If that tech was left behind by the forth... then I wonder if he came up with the one with the death God too?? I know if for any reason Naruto comes out to be related to the 4th.... he is going to be one powerful ninja.

I loved this episode it showed how Naruto feels bad about not having family and how Jiriaya is now a bit like a father figure to him. I thought it was so cute at the end when Jiriaya split that popsicle (sp maybe =D). I love these last episodes since they have been dedicated purely to Jiriaya and Naruto relationship. Its so much fun watching them!!

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: CapsuleCorpJX
You have to realize that the Fourth invented the technique. When Jiyara said it took the Fourth 3 years, most likely the Fourth was just experimenting on and off, and doing it by trial and error.

Of course nobody knows for sure but I believe:
Young 3rd > Jiraya > 4th >= Itachi >= Tsuande >= Orochimaru > Old 3rd

It seems to be hinted that the young third was the strongest and most skilled ninja of all history, they called him the professor.

Even Itachi is scared of Jiraya, so I'm assuming for now Jiraya is the strongest.

I think that the 4th is the strongest. He's the one that sealed Kyubi, remember? And where was it hinted that the 3rd was the strongest ever? He was said to be the strongest of the 5 current kage, but I've never seen him called the strongest of all time.

[Jessper]

I think it says sometime durning the oro fight that the 3rd was the "greatest of the hokages" but I may be wrong and don't have a whole lot of time atm to double check though sorry =\

[Shinji Ikari]

Originally posted by: Jessper
I think it says sometime durning the oro fight that the 3rd was the "greatest of the hokages" but I may be wrong and don't have a whole lot of time atm to double check though sorry =\


Didn't they only say that 3rd was great because he knew all of the techs in the konoha villiage and was called professor because of that?

Anyway, ep 87 was one of the best eps in my opinion... I love seeing Naruto doing field-training and i love jiraya, so whenever they are together, it's great.

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: Jessper
I think it says sometime durning the oro fight that the 3rd was the "greatest of the hokages" but I may be wrong and don't have a whole lot of time atm to double check though sorry =\

I think they said that he was greatest of the 5 Kage, meaning the leaders of the other villages.

[Outtawack311]

I thought they said the 4th was the best Hokage out of the Konoha ones.

[IamSpazzy]

Is Naruto just spectacularily bad at handling chakra or does the technique that Jiraiya trying to teach him, involve chakra manipulation that would be hard for the rest of the Konoha genins and chunnins?

[EpoC]

If jiraiya would learn a gennin with good chakra control like for example sakura, she may learn it better than naruto but due to her lack of chakra it would still be very hard and maybe even harder for her than for naruto.
thx to naruto's stamina, chakra and willpower he will be able to learn it. So I think naruto is the best candidate for this jutsu. and it suits him to.

that is what i think.

[Luchio]

Originally posted by: IamSpazzy
Is Naruto just spectacularily bad at handling chakra or does the technique that Jiraiya trying to teach him, involve chakra manipulation that would be hard for the rest of the Konoha genins and chunnins?
Jiraiya says it is a technique that is "2 levels from the top jutsus", so I suppose it would be hard to learn for many chuunins beside Naruto. Plus it took 3 years to the 4th hokage to master it, so IT'S HARD.

[ShinobiNeko]

I think it's more that it's a hard technique, they did say that it took the 4th years to master it, though probably some of Naruto's bad handling in chakra had a little to play it it a bit as well

[orn210]

Originally posted by: wirm
The 4th never surpassed the 3rd. The only person to do that was probably Orochimaru, and that's debatable.

dont you know that kage is the strongest in the village so at that time 4th became stronger than 3rd that's why he became the hokage, at that moment 3rd was 2nd strongest and that's why he became hokage again after 4th's death. if 4th wasnt stronger than 3rd why did they make him hokage when there is 3rd alive and kickin?

[Mae]

eh.... boring ep, BO-RING.

[orn210]

Originally posted by: Outtawack311
I thought they said the 4th was the best Hokage out of the Konoha ones.

didnt kabuto or oro said he was the best kage of the all kages

[Shadow-wolf]

Originally posted by: Luchio


Originally posted by: IamSpazzy
Is Naruto just spectacularily bad at handling chakra or does the technique that Jiraiya trying to teach him, involve chakra manipulation that would be hard for the rest of the Konoha genins and chunnins?
Jiraiya says it is a technique that is "2 levels from the top jutsus", so I suppose it would be hard to learn for many chuunins beside Naruto. Plus it took 3 years to the 4th hokage to master it, so IT'S HARD.

Also remember the first time Jiraiya starting training Naruto (Summoning Technique), He stated that sense Naruto had great stamina (Chakra), that he should expend large amounts.

[Xollence]

So much time has passed since the Chunnin exam, I wonder if they've alrady rebuilt the village and how all the genins are progressing.

[tensai]

yeah, they havent really focused on the village or the other genins, what has it been, about a month or so?

EDIT: OK i edited the things out, people were too worried some spoiler issues so i dont want to hear anymore complaints

i do agree with what M1N10N said about how logical it its (on page 4 if anyones wondering)

[ShinobiNeko]

hm, i remember someone saying before that the pics of the new ps2 naruto game contains spoilers..so i think if you are saying what you saw from the pic it probably is a spoiler

[Mongoose]

Yes, it is definitely, positively a spoiler (I said that on the game thread, too). That's info worth removing by the mods or the poster, IMO...

[ShinobiNeko]

tensai i think you should edit what you said and get rid of that spoiler -_-

[Assertn]

the ps2 game references mainly the manga, not the anime.....so most of the stuff in there ARE spoilers in one form or another

[DarthEnderX]

The 4th is the strongest one people. If the 4th wasn't stronger than the 3rd, he would never have been made Hokage. The 4th Surpassed the 3rd at a relatively young age too. Much like the 3rd surpassed the 1st and 2nd when he was young.

The Hokage is the strongest ninja in the village. If the 4th wasn't stronger than the 3rd, he wouldn't have been made hokage. Period.

Don't assume somehow that the 4th wasn't extremely powerful simply because he's dead.

[Mongoose]

M1N10N you describing tensai's post wastes his editing of his post to take out the spoiler (which is why I'm not quoting you directly i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif). It doesn't matter how deducible it is or isn't, the scene from the PS2 game is still a spoiler of something that hasn't happened yet in the anime. Knowing what's going on in this case takes a whole lot of the fun out of the scene it's spoiling, IMO.

[Terracosmo]

Spoiler = something that hasn't happened in the anime yet.

What tensai said = spoiler.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ARGUE ABOUT.

[Board of Command]

That was a good episode.

I think Jaraiya is teaching Naruto all these techniques has to do with more than just his looks. If you look close, Naruto looks exactly the same as the 4th. I think Naruto is the 4th's son because the 4th chose Naruto to bear the seal for a special reason. The seal symbolizes the 4th's bravery and devotion to Konoha, so if Naruto is indeed his son, then the seal would be something his father left behind, and something to be proud of. When Jaraiya said they have the same hair, he meant more than just that. There must be a reason for Jaraiya exclusively training Naruto. Think about it, Jaraiya recognized Naruto the first time they met at the hot springs. He knows a lot more about Naruto than we see.

-just some speculation

[Luchio]

Yeah to me it's getting pretty obvious that 4th hokage was Naruto's father, with all those clues left everywhere. But sshhhhh... people don't want to hear about it...

[chambers]

i dont think thats a spoiler because it hasnt been revealed in anything has it. so its ok for people to speculate.

[Luchio]

aawww rats, now it's not fun to talk about it anymore now that you said it's not a spoiler!!! i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

No seriously I just said that people don't want to hear about this because they cover their ears and eyes, no wanting to see the truth about this. Some people believe it's just a coincidence and others think that the clues are here to mislead us, the exact opposite will happen, being that Naruto is 4th's father who went back in time or something. i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

Please don't mind this post, reverse psychology is really screwing with my mind right now.

[sasukeisdaman]

I can tell. Your completly lost

[Zabuza No Jutsu]

i know it's not fitting in well with all the comments so far btu who cares....

LMAO When Naruto popped that balloon, looked at jiraiya.....he was completely crashed out and naruto's face when he said "HE'S SLEEPING!?" Lolllllll greaaat episode

[Zabuza No Jutsu]

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
The 4th is the strongest one people. If the 4th wasn't stronger than the 3rd, he would never have been made Hokage. The 4th Surpassed the 3rd at a relatively young age too. Much like the 3rd surpassed the 1st and 2nd when he was young.

The Hokage is the strongest ninja in the village. If the 4th wasn't stronger than the 3rd, he wouldn't have been made hokage. Period.

Don't assume somehow that the 4th wasn't extremely powerful simply because he's dead.

I cmpletely agree.....did you gusy notice how shit scared 3rd looked when Oro was brining up those 3 "coffins"...he knew the last one contained the 4th and he also knew he could never beat the 4th especially under Oro's control

[Shadow-wolf]

Well, he was definite having trouble with previous two hokages. I don't think he could of stopped all three. Especially the one who surpassed him.

[Board of Command]

Another reason he was scared of the last coffin was that he would never be able to beat 3 Hokages at once. 2 was more than he can handle, so he had to stop the third one just to even have a chance at winning.

[Luchio]

I loved it when Naruto was sleeping and Jiraiya came back from the hoes and Naruto said something like "erk, he smells like boose". Hehehe that crazy Jiraiya.

I don't see what kind of moral message is being sent by this, "People that fall to boose, women, money and gambling can be legendary too!"

Personnaly, I don't care, but this is a weird message being sent to kids out there.

[androshalforc]

ive read a few comments that say the tecnique was 2 levels below the top tech but diddent jairyama say it was second from the top aka

1 top jitsu
2 water ballon popping jitsu
3 something else jitsu

[Jessper]

Originally posted by: androshalforc
ive read a few comments that say the tecnique was 2 levels below the top tech but diddent jairyama say it was second from the top aka

1 top jitsu
2 water ballon popping jitsu
3 something else jitsu

Ya, In one of the Translations Jiraiya says the technique is 2 above the top but in A/A's translation he says it is 2nd from the top out of 6 so its the 5th level I guess...

[Board of Command]

If it's 2 from the top then it's 3rd, not 4th.

[Jessper]

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
If it's 2 from the top then it's 3rd, not 4th.

.... 6 minus 2 = 4 Maybe I'm not understanding what your trying to say....

[kyuubi]

I think what board of command meant was this

1-Top
2-1st from top
3-2nd from top
4
5
6
...I also liked this episode alot. I like the fact that they showed Naruto sees Jiraiya as a sort of father figure. I also enjoyed watching how Naruto managed to pop the balloon. Naruto looks like he will learn the technique, although i think it will take him along time to master it since he is using two hands to pop the balloon...

[Uchiha Barles]

Anbu/Aone sub

Jiraiya says: "This technique's difficulty is ranked second highest out of six levels."

There you have it.

[deadlydreamx]

guys guys jiraya says its a grade six, two from the top technique... what he's sayin i think its that its a level 6 technique and, that at that level its 2 from the top ... wait i just lost myself.. forget iti/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

[Assertn]

its grade 6.......with highest being 7th

[Uchiha Barles]

What?! There are a total of 6 levels, and the technique naruto is doing is the second most difficult in that system, making it 5th if 6th is the highest difficulty. That statement is clear as day. Where did you get 7?

[Assertn]

eh i dunno....i got 7 from the manga discussion about this whole "multiple levels of jutsus" topic
its hard to tell cause everyone has drastically different translations of what jiraiya was saying (the manga has him say "6 grades above the 2nd A rank ultra high grade level")

[Board of Command]

Bah, since all the translations are different, why don't we just say this is a very very advanced technique?

[kyuubi]

sounds like a plan to me!!

[Enigmatic_Paragon]

Personally Im not sure so that Hokages are chosen on strength alone.

Remember that when Hokage was fighting Orochimaru, he tells Oro that the reason why Orochimaru wasnt chosen as Hokage was because of his twisted practices. Clearly that indicates that if Orochimaru was "good", he would likely have been chosen as Hokage over the 4th. It also seems to indicate at atl least at that point, he is a "stronger" overall than Jiriaya (and by that, I'm excluding evilness and whatnot).

Nearly everything the Hokage has said relating to Orochimaru throughout the anime seems to indicate that Orochimaru was the most brillient of his students (who went on to become named the Sannin).

[Jessper]

Originally posted by: Enigmatic_Paragon
Personally Im not sure so that Hokages are chosen on strength alone.

Remember that when Hokage was fighting Orochimaru, he tells Oro that the reason why Orochimaru wasnt chosen as Hokage was because of his twisted practices. Clearly that indicates that if Orochimaru was "good", he would likely have been chosen as Hokage over the 4th. It also seems to indicate at atl least at that point, he is a "stronger" overall than Jiriaya (and by that, I'm excluding evilness and whatnot).

Nearly everything the Hokage has said relating to Orochimaru throughout the anime seems to indicate that Orochimaru was the most brillient of his students (who went on to become named the Sannin).

This is a really poor example imo, you don't choose someone to be the protector of your village if they hate your town and want to kill everyone in it, even if they are the most qualified other than that.