Question abouy new Jutsu

[Deacon]

Is the new Jutsu that Naruto is learning more power full then the Chidori? Because it didnt look like it, but im not sure... plz reply if u know the answer... dont speculate....

[Goingin]

I don't think that can yet be said..

Jiraiya says it is, but u can't really rely on what the characters say cause the laws of anime change from time to time and turn stuff around.

[Assertn]

both moves are assassination jutsus......so you cant really say how much more dead a person hit by chidori is opposed to rasengan (although some scenarios seem to beg to differ) I dont think the question should be which is more powerful, but which is more efficient. In which case rasengan is, since it doesnt drain nearly as much chakra, it doesnt require the user to get a good sprint at the enemy, and it doesnt require the use of the sharingan, which also adds to the draining of chakra

for power, however, there IS a scene later in the manga that demonstrates the demolition effects between chidori and rasengan, and rasengan wins i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Mut]

i dunno but i think for someone to use the rasengan, the person who is using the technique can't be all running around and shit like how kakashi can with the chidori. something makes me think that way about rasengan.

[Stoopider]

As long as it kills.. It's powerful enough.. Unless you want it DBZ city destroying style. ;p

[PSJ]

i would say the rasengan is stronger since it can be released in diffrent ways, you can for example just blow your enemy away at range if he does something too dangerous or you can blow away gaaras sand with it, also when you hit someone with it you can release it so they get a huge ass hole right through them, its easier to survive a chidori than a rasengan. so yes its more powerful.

[Mongoose]

In this case I think it's a matter of what you consider "more powerful" to be.

*checks to see we're not in the anime topic*

If it's a matter of sheer destructive power, I think Rasengan wins, because with enough juice you can make a huge ball of chakra, as Naruto demonstrates in the manga. As to which one's a better move to kill someone with... That depends. The Chidori is like a knife; it's highly concentrated, the user runs in at a fast speed, and with the Sharingan, they can theoretically adjust their positioning to counter any evasions the opponent tries. The Rasengan seems to be slower to build up and can be dodged unless the user is fast enough to counter or the chakra ball is just too freakin' big; note that Naruto immobilizes Kabuto first before whacking him with a super-size Rasengan ball. It's certainly more versatile, though; you likely could keep a small ball going in your hands and use taijutsu to connect rather than trying to directly blast someone, and as Jiraiya shows, you can modify the power so that it's not lethal if necessary.

[Knives122]

[quote]
Originally posted by: Mongoose
In this case I think it's a matter of what you consider "more powerful" to be.

*checks to see we're not in the anime topic*

If it's a matter of sheer destructive power, I think Rasengan wins, because with enough juice you can make a huge ball of chakra, as Naruto demonstrates in the manga. As to which one's a better move to kill someone with... That depends. The Chidori is like a knife; it's highly concentrated, the user runs in at a fast speed, and with the Sharingan, they can theoretically adjust their positioning to counter any evasions the opponent tries. The Rasengan seems to be slower to build up and can be dodged unless the user is fast enough to counter or the chakra ball is just too freakin' big.

I actually like that lets see if I can explain it in a different way. With the Chidori like Mongoose said its a knife or sword, so if you get hit by it in a important area(kidney, stomach) your screwed, but if you dodge it your ok. now with the Rasengan I'm going to relate it to a missile(the kind you put in a bazooka) Its big and packs alot of power and can kill you instantly if it hits you. Now if you dodge it that doesnt mean you cant get hurt by it, you can still be hurt by the force of the blast, which can screw you up in the long run. So all in all the Rasengan is much more dangerous than the Chidori, while the Chidori is extremely leathel if it hits its mark. So all in all if I had to pick one out of the two I would pick the Rasengan over the Chidori

[Assertn]

but chidori isnt just the chakra around your hand, its the straight thrust and the use of sharingan with it
just as you wouldnt perform gentle fist without byakugan, you wouldnt perform chidori without sharingan
and if you can see your enemy's movement with sharingan, then you shouldnt have any trouble aiming for critical areas

although that just got me thinking......interesting how its designed for avoiding counters, yet kakashi didnt see haku getting in the way at the last second....maybe the mist was in the way, there was still mist at the time, right?

[Board of Command]

That's because Sharingan doesn't predict the future. Kakashi was focused on Zabuza, not Haku. He can't predict movements, he just anticipates and copies them extremely well. Even if he could predict that Haku would shield Zabuza, there was no way to counter that because he was already thrusting forward when Haku decided to save Zabuza. Hope this clears it up.

[Goingin]

Originally posted by: BOARD_of_command
That's because Sharingan doesn't predict the future. Kakashi was focused on Zabuza, not Haku. He can't predict movements, he just anticipates and copies them extremely well. Even if he could predict that Haku would shield Zabuza, there was no way to counter that because he was already thrusting forward when Haku decided to save Zabuza. Hope this clears it up.

To support this answer a bit

Haku was extremely fast, because of that speed he could easily jump in to save Zabuza at the last moment

[Kale Ironfist]

its a bit of both. the sharingan predicts movement only within its range of vision. without focusing on haku, he could not predict that haku would attempt to protect zabuza. add in the fact that haku is extremely fast, and so took the blow for zabuza

[Knives122]

So it(for kakashi) would be like seeing something in the corner of you eye but not really paying attention to it or noticing it(since Haku is fast) right?

[CapsuleCorpJX]

Originally posted by: Deacon
Is the new Jutsu that Naruto is learning more power full then the Chidori? Because it didnt look like it, but im not sure... plz reply if u know the answer... dont speculate....

Chidori is supposedly faster than Rasengen. But if you ask me, both jutsus are quite slow, and any decent ninja can dodge it if you try to attack them head on. Actually I don't think Chidori is a very good assassination technique, you can hear the sound of the jutsu a mile away.

Its just a very powerfuly killing move, and is effective if you can immobilize your enemy temporarily. The same goes with Rasengen, but Rasengen is a harder jutsu to master, that and it deals at least double the damage.

[PSJ]

rasengan deals far more than double the damage you can destory a guys chest completly with the rasengan but the chidori can only hurt an area as big as your hand. of course it doesnt matter if both are aimed at the heart but its easier to dodge the chidori even if they use sharingan with it.

[Char]

Also, both times the Chidori was used (effectively), the targets were stationary (Zabuza & Gaara)....not really a good way to show off it's vaunted high speed......

[Assertn]

thats.....when you're SUPPOSED to use chidori

sasuke pulling it out at the start against itachi was a bad move

[PSJ]

yea but kakashi was bragging about the jutsu and how it is an assasination jutsu and so on. you would think that there was some truth in what he said. a kunai is better for assasination.

[kupalmaru]

I think rasengan has more good benefit than chidori. Rasengan can be use in your everyday fighting, you can control how much damage you want to give. Using rasengan you can conserve more chakra than chidori. You need to use the same amount of chakra, which is draining.

[Kale Ironfist]

problem is, using rasengan too much burns your hands, unlike chidori (cos it uses way too much chakra anyway). still, with kyuubi, naruto heals it all back in one night i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[?igma]

Originally posted by: Kale Ironfist
problem is, using rasengan too much burns your hands, unlike chidori (cos it uses way too much chakra anyway). still, with kyuubi, naruto heals it all back in one night i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Chidori burns just as well, see episode 84 or 85

[Kef]

and Sasuke ca only use 2 (or was it 3) a day. Naruto used dozains of them on a very short timespan

[Assertn]

yeah nobody notices sasuke's flesh all ripping from his chidori.....

the only reason naruto's hands were hurting was cause he was performing it constantly for like, a month.....and his hands werent used to it yet either

[Kef]

yeah, 2 times a day <=> about 1000 times a month

[InnerSakuraChan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we've never seen Chidori used in a combat situation by anyone besides Sasuke, who's just a stuid, egotistical Gennin, who shouldn't be using it in the fist place. We have however, seen the Rasengan used properly by Jiraya. If you compare Naruto's grasp of the Ransengan as comprable to Sasuke's grasp of the Chidori- then I think it's safe to assume that the Chidori can be a lot more powerful.

Basicly what I'm saying, in a really roundabout way, is that there is no way to compare the two, because we haven't seen Chidori used properly; like we have the Ransengan.

[PlatonicEyebrow]

ummmm kakashi vs zabuza would be an example....

[Mut]

Originally posted by: InnerSakuraChan
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we've never seen Chidori used in a combat situation by anyone besides Sasuke, who's just a stuid, egotistical Gennin, who shouldn't be using it in the fist place. We have however, seen the Rasengan used properly by Jiraya. If you compare Naruto's grasp of the Ransengan as comprable to Sasuke's grasp of the Chidori- then I think it's safe to assume that the Chidori can be a lot more powerful.

Basicly what I'm saying, in a really roundabout way, is that there is no way to compare the two, because we haven't seen Chidori used properly; like we have the Ransengan.

just never speak again.

[InnerSakuraChan]

AHH! I lose! I lose!
*Bows humbly*
Sorry - havn't watched that arc in forever . . .


Darn . . . and I had been trying hard no to do something stupid . . . oh well, everyone gets flamed sometimes . . .

[chakramaster1011]

Hey, here's a thought. You know how the fourth is kakashi's sensei? Well, maybe the fourth tried teaching kakashi how to do rasegan like how the Jiraya is teaching naruto how to do it. And kakashi, instead of doing it like the 4th did, chose his own method prob b/c it was to hard to duplicate completely. (i dont think kakashi can copy it w/ sharingan b/c it's not a jutsu, it's chakra control) Or maybe, he just wanted to try new things w/ his sensei's technique. So, that's prob why chidori is more like scattered energy. He can't quite concentrated it. Like the Jiraya said, it took the 4th nearly 3 years to complete. So kakashi did it his style. Naruto is only prob closer to mastering it the way the 4th did b/c he's the main character.

So in argument as to which one is stronger, I'm thinking both are about equal. It's just that rasegan is moe concentrated, I think and chidori is more scattered.

[Mut]

ok... if naruto is able to learn it, kakashi would have no problem with it. he is a SUPER GENIUS.

[AmP]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
ok... if naruto is able to learn it, kakashi would have no problem with it. he is a SUPER GENIUS.

That leads to the question whether he can.

This may sound a little out there but reading quotes from vol.19 ch166 page3 where kabuto hinted at some relationship between jiraiya and naruto, and vol.18 ch159 page6 where tsunade talked about only the 4th and jiraiya being able to perform the rasengan - they made me consider if the rasengan is something of a bloodline limit type of technique. This would mean that the 4th, jiraiya and naruto would be related in some way of course, but it makes sense once you think about how orochi, tsunade and kakashi cannot perform the rasengan simply because they are not from a bloodline which has the potential this ability.

The meaning of naruto's name also hints at this (taken from narutoinfo.com):
"Uzumaki is a very known and basic word. It means 'spiral', and it is also used for things like cyclones and whirlpools."

coincidence about the name and the whole 'wind', 'cyclone' technique?? i dunno i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Stoopider]

Originally posted by: AmP


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
ok... if naruto is able to learn it, kakashi would have no problem with it. he is a SUPER GENIUS.

That leads to the question whether he can.

This may sound a little out there but reading quotes from vol.19 ch166 page3 where kabuto hinted at some relationship between jiraiya and naruto, and vol.18 ch159 page6 where tsunade talked about only the 4th and jiraiya being able to perform the rasengan - they made me consider if the rasengan is something of a bloodline limit type of technique. This would mean that the 4th, jiraiya and naruto would be related in some way of course, but it makes sense once you think about how orochi, tsunade and kakashi cannot perform the rasengan simply because they are not from a bloodline which has the potential this ability.

The meaning of naruto's name also hints at this (taken from narutoinfo.com):
"Uzumaki is a very known and basic word. It means 'spiral', and it is also used for things like cyclones and whirlpools."

coincidence about the name and the whole 'wind', 'cyclone' technique?? i dunno i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif


That sounds very very very very very very unlikely, I doubt if their related or it's a bloodline limit.

It's just molding chakra and spinning it violently. I would think it would require a great ammount of chakra and concentration. It takes alot of time to learn it, it took the 4th 3 years.. Naruto's a genius for learning it so quickly. It isn't a jutsu or body specially functioning different.

Why don't Kakashi learn RAsengan? Maybe the fourth just never taught him it. Or the chidori is maybe a modified version of the Rasengan, which fits his style of fighting better. Because Ninja's aren't suppose to reveal their secrets to each other.

And I'm getting quite sick of the bloodline thingy.

[PSJ]

there isnt a bloodline to use rasengan. i guess you just need abnormal amounts of chakra or something. maybe thats why naruto learned it so quickly he can mold chakra almost constatly cause he got loads of it(his own) a person that has a normal chakra level might have to do it over a longer period of time. then add kyubis chakra to all this nauto would be able to train the rasengan for a year constantly, and if 2 ppl do the same thing but one of them does it more its likely he will complete it first. and kakashi, tsunade, orochimaru dont know the rasengan cuase it wouldnt be fun if all the characters ran around with the same special move.

[AmP]

why does the copy ninja kakashi have to be taught a technique to begin with? he also has more chakra control and learning ability compared to naruto, i'm just saying there is something that can explain the aparant difficulty learning it.

[PSJ]

why does copy ninja kakashi need to learn something? well for the simple matter that the sharingan can only copy seals and then the user must try to comprehend how much chakra is used. kakashi cant see how the rasengan is working just by watching it with his sharingan. if sharingan was able to copy every little secret and see into someone mind they would rule the world. many jutsus got a trick to do it not just seals and chakra amount. thats why copy ninja kakashi cant learn the rasengan just by watching it. he might be ale to learn it but as i said it wouldnt be fun if all characters got the same special move, besides in kakashis mind the chidori is better since he created it himself and its special made to be used with the sharingan.

[AmP]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
why does copy ninja kakashi need to learn something? well for the simple matter that the sharingan can only copy seals and then the user must try to comprehend how much chakra is used. kakashi cant see how the rasengan is working just by watching it with his sharingan. if sharingan was able to copy every little secret and see into someone mind they would rule the world. many jutsus got a trick to do it not just seals and chakra amount. thats why copy ninja kakashi cant learn the rasengan just by watching it. he might be ale to learn it but as i said it wouldnt be fun if all characters got the same special move, besides in kakashis mind the chidori is better since he created it himself and its special made to be used with the sharingan.

taken from ep.7, "sharingan can understand how an opponents technique works, and copy it". your definition doesn't sound very correct.
i also don't understand why he would think chidori is any better than rasengan considering that both attacks require the attacker to touch the victim (so they're both close clombat techniques). rasengan is more powerful aswell, as we have seen.

[PSJ]

ok, so basicly what you are saying is that the saringan ca nread minds which it cant. jutsus arent just seals and chakra amount, if they can see these 2 they still need to figure out the last part of the jutsu how does it work? if they got the knowledge they can copy jutsus but if they dont they cant. as to why he would think the chidori is better 1) its based on the sharingan, you cant use it without it. 2) its his own jutsu. 3) a man has pride enough to do so. 4) the show would be boring if everyone used the same jutsu all the time.

[Stoopider]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
ok, so basicly what you are saying is that the saringan ca nread minds which it cant. jutsus arent just seals and chakra amount, if they can see these 2 they still need to figure out the last part of the jutsu how does it work? if they got the knowledge they can copy jutsus but if they dont they cant. as to why he would think the chidori is better 1) its based on the sharingan, you cant use it without it. 2) its his own jutsu. 3) a man has pride enough to do so. 4) the show would be boring if everyone used the same jutsu all the time.

Actually this is a very gray area about the Sharingan ability.. Sharingan can kinda read minds. It probably confuses the enemy telling you their next move, so it can predict and understand how the jutsu is formed (Zabuza and Kakashi's first fight, Kakashi read his mind and repeated back his words).

I would think Kakashi could look and know how it's done. But it's a question whether can he copy it instantly and use it. I always thought the sharingan enable's a person to understand a jutsu/technique. But to be able to emulate it, is another question. There's where Kakashi is considered a genius.

Also , Kakashi does know really alot of jutsu's. But might not be the best jutsu at his disposal during fights.

[PSJ]

yea you need a good brain to be able to use the sharingan to its fullest you need to understand how jutsus work or figure out how they work. so the sharingan can only copy chakra amount and seals the rest is up to the individual. sasuke isnt smart enough to figure out how strong, hard jutsus work but itachi and kakashi might be able to for example. the zabuza thing thats not really just the sharingan its a bit psychology to, if you understand the human mind you can anticipate what person is going to do when they are being pushed like zabuza it would help with sharingan tho to read lip movement and such.

[Masamune]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
but chidori isnt just the chakra around your hand, its the straight thrust and the use of sharingan with it
just as you wouldnt perform gentle fist without byakugan, you wouldnt perform chidori without sharingan
and if you can see your enemy's movement with sharingan, then you shouldnt have any trouble aiming for critical areas

although that just got me thinking......interesting how its designed for avoiding counters, yet kakashi didnt see haku getting in the way at the last second....maybe the mist was in the way, there was still mist at the time, right?

if you would look at episode 18 , at exactly 11:00 ,
you'd see haku used one of his ice mirrors

[AmP]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
1) its based on the sharingan, you cant use it without it.

other than using the sharingan to get close enough to the enemy to strike, is there anything else that makes the chidori sharingan dependent? if not, then how exactly is it any different from rasengan?

[PSJ]

it is diffrent becuase you move at high speed when using it so in order to be able to strike you need to counter your opponent while running towards him. of course it can be used like kakashi did also but since sasuke practiced it running it should be done that way. the rasengan isnt depending on something like that it can be used in diffrent ways, just release all the power you got in your hand and your opponent will blow away even if he is at a distance this can be done if for example your enemy is doing chidori and is running towards you release the chakra when he is myabe 2 meters away from you and he will fly backwards. chidori cant be used in any other way than a thrust. rasengan can. of course this isnt anything the manga or anime has stated but technicly(sp?) it would be able to work that way.

[AmP]

of course you're just hypothesising that rasengan can be used at a distance.

the only times that we have seen the rasengan used properly (ie. jiraiya on the stone chuunin, naruto on kabuto, and where jiraiya and naruto were using it on trees), were performed in the same way as chidori (by that i mean ~physical contact between the bodies).

[Death BOO Z]

you can do Rasengan with both hands, therefore, Rasengan wins..
you can do Rasengan from range zero, victory goes to Rasengan...
you can cheat in gamblings with Rasengan, Rasengan scores another point...
you don't reveal to the entire world the fact that you're doing the jutsu with Rasengan, so far, Rasengan has the lead..

conclusion: there's no point argueing, becuase the rasengan is better than the chidori..

[The_Guru]

i agree that the rasengan is more powerful compared to the chidori. all i gotta say is read the manga up to the part where naruto returns from his journey with jiraiya to get tsunade to return to the leaf village. that will explain everything to you.

[Bronzie]

k, this is my theory.

i think of chidori as a bullet and rasengan as a hollow tipped bullet. both are extremely powerful, but, the hollow tipped tears whatever it hits when exiting the object. u can see this in volume 20, ch.176, p.10 of he manga. but this is just my theory, so please feel free to correct me if im wrong.



Bronzie