new guy, maybe old questions

[The Lord of Morning]

Hey, just found this forum but i cant seem to find the topics i want so i might be reasking old questions.

1. On the scroll for frogs naruto puts his name and beside it is jiraiya's name. shouldnt the 4th hokage's name be last instead of jiraiya's, unless HE got the frogs before jiraiya did? same thing applies for the rasengan, seems the 4th developed it and then erosenin got it.

2. do you think sasuke can do the shadow clone or rasengan? We know his eye can pick up almost any jutsu as ppl keep saying but he has yet to use either one. I figure he can get shadow clone but the high level of the rasengan makes me think it isnt that easy, even with such a great blood line, to learn rasengan.

3. is it just me or do bloodlines, even by being so powerful, not chosen as hokage? none of the kages that we know about had a special bloodline regardless of its advantage

4. jiraiya says there are nine members of the akatsuki, is that including orochi or not?

[oscar]

1.dunno bout the scroll, i cant read japanese. regarding the rasengan read the manga, when naruto is learning the rasengan , jiraiya says `u have the potential to become the 4th master´.
2. his sharingan allows him to see the jutsu but if he must also have the expertise to do it, in other words he might see the rasengan but if he cant manage his chakra well he wont be able to do it, an example of this is when he fought lee, he was able to see lees taijutsu but didnt have the physical skill to counter it.
3. the hokage r the strongest in the leaf, u must also remember that u must earn it and i dont think theres anyone with bloodline abilities that want it, example, hyuuga is most interested in keepin hes blood protected, also theres isnt anyone from the leaf that is as strong as tsunade or jiraiya.
4. nope, orochi was the tenth.

[oscar]

i think i have to find something more productive to do with my time

[PSJ]

okay then ill just correct oscar here with my answers.

1. Jiraiyas name is beofre 4ths but 4th name isnt there its just random marks. we dont know 4ths name. as for the rasengan there are only 3 ppl that know it Jiraiya, 4th and naruto. most ppl think 4th created it and jiraiya learned it but im think diffrently. jiraiya said it took 4th 3 years to master the jutsu, and master is not create. however he also says i will teach you 4ths jutsu but i think thats a translation error.

2. Sasuke might be able to do kage bunshin if he understands how to divide the chakra. the rasengan is a diffrent story it is a hard jutsu to master took 4th 3 years so no sasuke cant copy it. the sharingan can probably only copy jutsus that use chakra control and hand seals only. the rasengan and kage bunshin also has a trick to it.

3. Probably cause most of them cant compete with an ambious gifted ninja. you wont be a gifted ninja just cause you have a bloodline, like sasuke he got the sharingan and started out to be a gifted ninja but naruto has already passed him by. its rare for gifted ninjas to be born overall there arent many hokage material ninjas being born.

4. there were 9 members now only 8 thats why they work in group of 2, 4 group of 2 equals 8

[Goingin]

I only have something to add to some points

2) Remember that Naruto got the shadow clone nu jutsu stuff out of the earth scroll (it was the earth scroll right?) and so a forbidden technique.
I don't think u can copy a jutsu that came from that scroll cause there probably is a catch to it that only the scroll explains.

3) Nothing to add here, but i do have an extra question..
What made the 3rd Hokage so special that he could become a Hokage? I can't seem to figure it out..

[Sidnne]

What made the 3rd Hokage so special that he could become a Hokage? I can't seem to figure it out..

The 3rd was said in the manga to be the strongest of all of the Hokages. He became Hokage when he was very young. He was also given the nickname, "The Professor", because supposedly he was a master of almost every jutsu. And most importantly, he had the "will of fire" where he would do anything and everything in his power to protect the people of Konoha.

[PSJ]

supposedy he knew all jutsu within the leaf. thats why they called him the professor.

[The Lord of Morning]

yes, i believe what it takes to be the hokage is not simply the desire or strength, but rather both and ALSO the will to protect the village at all costs. Hokage is the leader/protector of the village, he/she should have the villages best interests in mind, regardless of personal injury. when hokage and orochi are fighting, they discuss this fundamental difference. I think the hokage to some degree HAS to give up his life for the village. all the hokages have died defending the village in some way or other. (Well the leaf ones at least). and i have the feeling even the fifth will fall someday.

And for those who remember, the scroll at the beginning have eight jutsu's on it, that i think were used to seal the kyubi in the first place right? Naruto only learned the first one which was kage bunshin. Since the jounin know kage bunshin it cant really be forbidden completely, just for those of under jounin level since kakashi knows it. You guys think that the 4th wrote that scroll to show how the kyubi could potentially be freed? the hokage said that it was 1 in million chance for naruto to learn how back then, but maybe he has been learnign them since, i bet rasengan is on that scroll.

i think the sharingan can learn the technique(kage bunshin), he jus thasnt had to implement it yet. look at their differing fighting styles. sasuke is a superior taijutsu fighter on his own, naruto has to resort to clones to make the field equal. Sometimes its annoying watching naruto cause you want him to be better in taijutsu but he just isnt. they are focusing on his being able to harness kyubi of course but i wish he could fight on his own just once!! of course when he gets kyubieed up he becomes badass.

side note:notice how sasuke has not been around to watch the others use their varying techniques? he fought first in the prelims and left, not viewing ANY of the other peoples abilities, and then came last during the acutal rounds, also missing all techniques. think how many techniques he might have absorbed if he had simply been there. even kakashi opened his eye to watch Lee fight, i figure he might have learned how to open some of the gates.

[Death BOO Z]

well, everyone answered it before, so i'll throw in some of my 2 cents...

1.in the anime it was a mistranselation, Jiraya's name wasn't the one next to Naruto's, the middle name reading is unknown so far...

2.Rasengan: no chance in hell, it's not a jutsu you're able to pick up after watching it once, even with the sharingan.
Kagebunshin: also not likely, he saw Naruto doing it only twice, once at the haku fight and against Gaara, I don't think he was in the mental condition to copy it in either cases.
(and on a side note, Sasuke can't do the mengekyou sharingan either...)

3.maybe it's becuase bloodline guys have a first commitment to thier clan, and not to the entire village, dunno...

4. that was with him, now there's only 8 of them (2*4=8), six of which are still unknown...

[Sidnne]

Kagebunshin: also not likely, he saw Naruto doing it only twice, once at the haku fight and against Gaara, I don't think he was in the mental condition to copy it in either cases.

Nah, Sasuke saw Naruto use it more times than that. He saw him use it against Zabuza, several times during the chuunin exam (against oro i think, and against the ninjas who trapped them with a genjutsu when kabuto was leading them to the tower, and when they were fishing), he saw him use it against Kakashi during the gennin test, and i believe he used it during some of their D-rank mission like pulling out the weeds and such.

Whether or not he saw it with the sharingan I am uncertain. But it doesn't seem like Sasuke has been making use of his Sharingan anyway, because the only thing we have seen him copy was part of Lee's technique.

I doubt that Rasengan is something that can be copied by Sharingan, even with the Sharingan he would still have to focus the chakra into his hand and be able to control and spin the chakra to form the ball. I don't think that is something that can be copied, but at this point who knows.

[The Lord of Morning]

he has seen naruto use kage bunshin countless times. i do doubt he could learn rasengan. would suck if he could learn it that easily, but with as much power orochi seems to give to the sharingan (and i have read ppl saying orochi gives it too much credit) i still think it is one of the best bloodlines out there.

any thoughts on the importance of the jutsu in the earth scroll at the beginning of the series??

[Death BOO Z]

sory, i should have specified that he saw it with the sharingan only twice...

against Haku, cuz then he developed the sharingan, but i don't think he was able to copy stuff yet, and i'm certain he didn't have copying on his mind...

when Sasuke used the sharingan agaist Lee, it was the first time Sakura saw it, and becuase of the way Sasuke acted with it, i'm positive that he wasn't trying to hide the fact he had it... so i'm pretty sure he didn't copy Naruto's skills duiring the D-rank missions..

next, the forest thingy... Naruto started to use his Kage bunshin jutsu in front of sasuke only after Orochimaru gave Sasuke the curse seal, and becuase that seal took over Sasuke everytime he tried to use the seal, I don't think he managed to copy it... besides, the only time we saw Sasuke trying the sharingan was after they started the shadow ninjutsu, and at that time, Naruto wasn't using his Kage bunshin anymore...

since Sasuke was away during the periminary fights, and during Naruto's fight with Neji, he couldn't copy it there, leaving only the fight with Gaara, in whitch Sasuke has deplated all of his power before naruto came, and was probably too busy in shitting his pants to copy anything...

and there's also the hospital fight, but i don't think Sasuke was even thinking about copying skills at that time, all he had on his mind was to conserve his false image of superiority..

conclusion: Sasuke is likely not to know the shadow clone jutsu, and is an ass

[Assertn]

is rasengan even technically a ninjutsu? im under the impression that its just a swirling ball of chakra emitted from his hand.....
to call rasengan a jutsu would be calling the ability to walk up trees and stand on water as jutsus as well

i think its just a type of chakra control

[orn210]

Originally posted by: Sidnne


What made the 3rd Hokage so special that he could become a Hokage? I can't seem to figure it out..

The 3rd was said in the manga to be the strongest of all of the Hokages. He became Hokage when he was very young. He was also given the nickname, "The Professor", because supposedly he was a master of almost every jutsu. And most importantly, he had the "will of fire" where he would do anything and everything in his power to protect the people of Konoha.

not the strongest of all the hokages! he was the strongest of the all kages and dont forget there was 4th even 3rd was alive and lil bit young 4th was the strongest in konoha when the 3rd was still kicking

[Kale Ironfist]

he was the strongest kage ever, until the 4th came into the picture

[Insomniac]

The 3rd Hokage was stronger than the 4th, the 4th was said to be the same as Orochimaru skill wise (Oro was going to be 4th hokage but his ideals were evil).
the fact that the 4th sealed the Kyuubi gave him his awesomeness title but you have to remember that the 3rd is older and the 4th was in his prime, when the 3rd was in his prime he was the strongest ninja alive.

[Raven]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
is rasengan even technically a ninjutsu? im under the impression that its just a swirling ball of chakra emitted from his hand.....
to call rasengan a jutsu would be calling the ability to walk up trees and stand on water as jutsus as well

i think its just a type of chakra control
Yep, I'm nearly 100% sure you're correct. It's not an official jutsu that can be copied with the Sharingan, it's advanced chakra control in the palm of your hand.



Originally posted by: Insomniac
The 3rd Hokage was stronger than the 4th, the 4th was said to be the same as Orochimaru skill wise (Oro was going to be 4th hokage but his ideals were evil).
the fact that the 4th sealed the Kyuubi gave him his awesomeness title but you have to remember that the 3rd is older and the 4th was in his prime, when the 3rd was in his prime he was the strongest ninja alive.
Agreed. Many people seem to forget this. The 3rd was the God of all shinobi.

[kaigan]

The 4th and 3rd are dame strong in their prime. Remember when anko was talking to the third when she said 'if HE was still alive (refering to the 4th)". So the 4th is definitely stronger than Oro. But who is stronger, we will ever know.

[Mut]

i think the only reason why the 3rd wanted choose orochimaru over the 4th for hokage was the 4th was too young at that time.

[hornetmike]

Yeah, he probably wanted Oro as his first choice cause oro was probably wiser and had more experience. But he was evil so he chose the 4th.

[polaris79]

Originally posted by: The Lord of Morning
Hey, just found this forum but i cant seem to find the topics i want so i might be reasking old questions.

1. On the scroll for frogs naruto puts his name and beside it is jiraiya's name. shouldnt the 4th hokage's name be last instead of jiraiya's, unless HE got the frogs before jiraiya did? same thing applies for the rasengan, seems the 4th developed it and then erosenin got it.Perhaps the 4th was released from his contract upon death?



2. do you think sasuke can do the shadow clone or rasengan? We know his eye can pick up almost any jutsu as ppl keep saying but he has yet to use either one. I figure he can get shadow clone but the high level of the rasengan makes me think it isnt that easy, even with such a great blood line, to learn rasengan.Learning a jutsu doesn't mean being able to do it since every move requires a requisite amount of skill. For an instance, when Sauske picked up Lee's Taijutsu, he was incapable of utilizing it until after he picked up the necessary speed.

With that in mind, rasengan requires an amazing degree of chakra control. That is probably the reason that up until Naruto, only two individuals had been able to use it.

As with shadow clones, I find it curious that Sauske hadn't learned it yet.



3. is it just me or do bloodlines, even by being so powerful, not chosen as hokage? none of the kages that we know about had a special bloodline regardless of its advantage Not that we know of.



4. jiraiya says there are nine members of the akatsuki, is that including orochi or not?According to the AonE-ANBU translation, the nine members is including Orochi. Only after he skipped out were remaning eight members able to travel in groups of two.

[Knives122]

and He(the 3rd) probably saw that the 4th wanted what was best for the entire village while he saw that Oro only wanted what was best for himself

[The Lord of Morning]

Originally posted by: hornetmike
Yeah, he probably wanted Oro as his first choice cause oro was probably wiser and had more experience. But he was evil so he chose the 4th.

is there any indication we know how powerful the 4th was compared to orochi? I do think from the general flow of the anime that the 4th was indeed more powerful, but thats a guess based on conversations such as anko's. I think the 3rd initially wanted orochi because he saw his genius, but as soon as he knew he was evil the idea of choosing him was gone, at that point the most he could hope for was for orochi to change his ways, but with such an individual there is no way the 3rd could risk making him hokage in hopes he would change.

hmm another question, since the 4th sealed his life with the kyubi when he banished him, and since the kyubi didnt die but is sealed in naruto, would this mean the death jutsu was not enough to kill the kyubi? or do you think the 4th chose to seal the kyubi in naruto instead of killing it? I think the earth(?) scroll at the beginning has all the jutsu the 4th used to capture the kyubi, hence the fear that naruto could release it if he learned them all.

in their primes i would guess the 3rd was badass and definatly more powerful then orochi and definatly could beat the 1st and 2nd hokages but he was only afraid of the 3rd box, which had the 4th. who knows who was more powerful in their prime, but i think when we learn more about the 4th we will be fairly impressed, even after seeing all the ninja we have so far.

[bcrogers]

I'd say anything regarding the Yondaime will be exxagerated, because he was the village's hero. He was obviously excellent, but because of the nature of Naruto's battles (this ain't DBZ y'all) it would depend on circumstances. The kyuubi was around for a while, so likely it was on the fourth's terms when they fought. And as the fourth was a hokage--upstanding and all that--and Orichamaru is just plain badass, who do you think would gain the upper hand? Orichimaru is devious. Yondaime has been compared to Naruto. 'Nuff said.

Also, do you really think Sasuke would copy Naruto's technique? He's too proud. Also, it's only useful to Naruto when he has a plan, and uses it to force the opponent to focus on the duplicates. How many times has Naruto made a ton of duplicates, but attacked stupidly, and they've all been wasted? They're just flat out different people.

As for the Earth scroll...I wouldn't worry about it. I mean, the manga was just starting out then. Did Kishimoto even know if it was gonna fly? Sure, he tied the whole Mizaki thing up later (goddamnit, I just WATCHED 146, why have I already forgotten his name?) quite nicely, but I doubt he had deep ambitions for that scroll. Everything after the Haku ordeal can probably be taken literally, IMO.

Oh, and yes, I'm new here. Uh, hi.

[Yezsyr]

Regarding the question of the strongest ok the Kage level ninjas is this. Sandaime retired not because Yondaime was a stronger ninja than him, but because he felt that he was ready to retire, and his powers were on the decrease. The very fact that Sandaime matched up as well as he did against Orochimaru at the age he was at should speak volumns about the power he had in his prime. Orochimaru was as strong as he was at his prime, noted by the futility of Jiraiya's and Tsunade's attacks. (Orochimaru fought on par with them without his arms or jutsus, which should destory the notion that Jiraiya's stronger) But Sandaime fought on par with Oro with his arms. If you believe that Oro and Yondaime were close in strength, then you have to believe that Sandaime, IN HIS PRIME, was the strongest ninja. The thing about Yondaime is that he was so good, so young. He hadn't even reached his prime. He is similar to Kakashi in the sense that even at their current levels, they still have a lot of room to grow, or had in Yondaime's case.

About Sasuke and the Kage Bunshin. I would think he has by now, and certainly after the time skip... if he still exists.

[heero]

Originally posted by: Yezsyr
Orochimaru was as strong as he was at his prime, noted by the futility of Jiraiya's and Tsunade's attacks. (Orochimaru fought on par with them without his arms or jutsus, which should destory the notion that Jiraiya's stronger)

Jiraiya couldnt use his chakra at that time because Tsunade gave him some kind of drink remember?

[Yezsyr]

Originally posted by: heero


Originally posted by: Yezsyr
Orochimaru was as strong as he was at his prime, noted by the futility of Jiraiya's and Tsunade's attacks. (Orochimaru fought on par with them without his arms or jutsus, which should destory the notion that Jiraiya's stronger)

Jiraiya couldnt use his chakra at that time because Tsunade gave him some kind of drink remember?

He couldn't use his chakra properly and was still capable of using jutsus. And he must have had some level of chakra control in order to summon Gama Bunta. And messed up chakra compared with no jutsus and no arms.... I would prefer the messed up chakra.

[Konohamaru]

err didn't the raikage that died by Sasori's hand have that black sand technique? isn't that a bloodline limit move?

[mage]

Originally posted by: Konohamaru
err didn't the raikage that died by Sasori's hand have that black sand technique? isn't that a bloodline limit move?
that was the 3rd kazekage, and no, it wasn't a blood limit.

[Assertn]

actually......i sorta figured it was a blood limit