Neji's possible jutsus

[polaris79]

Because of his diverse skill set, Neji should be able to master both the Rasengan and the Chidori.

Rasengan requires the user to not only have the chakra level capable of forcing chakra on the hand but the chakra control to properly focus it. As a prodigy of the Hyuga, Neji has chakra control superior to Naruto. If anything, Neji should be able to learn and master Rasengan more effiently than any character we've encountered so far.

As we all well know, Chidori is a technique unique to Sauske and Kakashi. It requires large stores of chakra, the ability to harness and control concetrated chakra, and an eye jutsu to see defensive counters. Neji has all of these. His Byakugan is as effective as Sharringan in its seeing abilities. There is no reason that Neji can't be as good as Suaske with the Chidori.

[Mut]

i dunno about rasengan. neji can shoot out chakra from any part of his body but he hasn't shown anything that tells us that he can manipulate chakra. rasengan needs chakra to be controlled in a certain way, neji's chakra controlling skills isn't really the same.

so let's say neji can do the chidori... i'm sure he'll be cool and all but too bad he won't be able to use it effectively as kakashi and sasuke since he doesn't have sharingan. chidori is suppose to be a straight on spearing type of attack. for attacking straight on, you need sharingan so can see any countering attacks coming at you while you're running at the opponent. you saw an example of this during sasuke vs gaara in the stadium.

[polaris79]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
....so let's say neji can do the chidori... i'm sure he'll be cool and all but too bad he won't be able to use it effectively as kakashi and sasuke since he doesn't have sharingan. ... for attacking straight on, you need sharingan so can see any countering attacks coming at you while you're running at the opponent.That's what byakugan is for. By sheer image resolution, byakugan out completes sharingan.

[Gods_Son]

Byakugan would probably be better for sight and counter attacks. Neiji would never be taught those techniques and they don't suit him anyways though.

[Kumiriko]

To my understanding. not completly sure but. Sharigan is auto responce thought. Byakugan is more Data gathering. then you have to choose to react to what you learn.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: polaris79


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
....so let's say neji can do the chidori... i'm sure he'll be cool and all but too bad he won't be able to use it effectively as kakashi and sasuke since he doesn't have sharingan. ... for attacking straight on, you need sharingan so can see any countering attacks coming at you while you're running at the opponent.That's what byakugan is for. By sheer image resolution, byakugan out completes sharingan.

no, it doesn't. you're not understanding what i'm saying. let me elaborate. when sasuke was charging at gaara while gaara was covered in his spherical sand, sasuke was using sharingan. as he was running towards gaara, the sand grew spikes attempting to stop sasuke's attack. however, sasuke's sharingan enabled him to see the spikes coming and avoid them almost completely letting sasuke continue is direct assault.

but for neji, he won't be able to do that. let's replace sasuke with neji. yes, he may be able to see what's going on behind him but as he is charging at gaara, neji won't be able to react to the sand spikes quickly enough cuz the byukagan doesn't have seeing capabilities like the sharingan. as far as reading movements and reacting to them, sharingan out completes byukagan. byukagan only lets the user to see almost 360 degrees around him/her and chakra flow/points.

that's why kakashi taught sasuke the chidori and not naruto. without the sharingan, you can't attempt such a direct assault.

[AlbinoFury]

those jutsus would clash drastically with his fighting style though, his style isnt to obliterate his foes but to shut them down. Sure with time he could prob learn either but they wouldnt work well with the hyuga style, now rock lee with a chidori in each hand, i can see that and itd be insane i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[polaris79]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: polaris79


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
....so let's say neji can do the chidori... i'm sure he'll be cool and all but too bad he won't be able to use it effectively as kakashi and sasuke since he doesn't have sharingan. ... for attacking straight on, you need sharingan so can see any countering attacks coming at you while you're running at the opponent.That's what byakugan is for. By sheer image resolution, byakugan out completes sharingan.

...the byukagan doesn't have seeing capabilities like the sharingan. as far as reading movements and reacting to them, sharingan out completes byukagan. byukagan only lets the user to see almost 360 degrees around him/her and chakra flow/points...I don't think this is true.

In addition to scope of perception (giving a larger sight field), the byukagan also gives sharpness of sight. Recall how during the Chuninn exams, when Neji was facing Hinata, he was able to see her slightest facial expressions.

Also, before the fighting stage of the Chuninn exams, during the forest stage, Hinanta was asked by Kiba to scout the forest for eneimes. With the byukagan, she was able to see far distances.

[polaris79]

Originally posted by: AlbinoFury
those jutsus would clash drastically with his fighting style though, his style isnt to obliterate his foes but to shut them down. Sure with time he could prob learn either but they wouldnt work well with the hyuga style...i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gifI actually did realize this, and gave it some thought.

Any ninja needs to be equipted to deal with any situation. Chances are, Neji will face enemies who use nonanimate physical techniques for offense and/or defense (ie Gaara's sand). A doll (Gaara's brother's technique) or a shield of sand have no chakra points. This effecitvely nullifies the Hyuga Taijutsu.

If Neji had Chidori and/or Rasengan, he will actually be able to fight.

With his Haiten move (that chakra defensive swirl), we realize it's not as if Neji have to focuse exclusively to poking at chakra points and attacking inner organ systems. Any fighting system, no matter how dominant needs flexiblity. Chidori and Rasengan would offer that.

[Kumiriko]

Heck. it can see thought Led. Dosnt mean it dose the same thing as The Sharigan

[Mut]

Originally posted by: polaris79
I don't think this is true.

In addition to scope of perception (giving a larger sight field), the byukagan also gives sharpness of sight. Recall how during the Chuninn exams, when Neji was facing Hinata, he was able to see her slightest facial expressions.

Also, before the fighting stage of the Chuninn exams, during the forest stage, Hinanta was asked by Kiba to scout the forest for eneimes. With the byukagan, she was able to see far distances.

you're still not understanding it. sharingan allows the user to see and react to all types of jutsus/movements instantly which makes the chidori user to go in for a direct attack while still being able to dodge any incoming counter-attacks and still continue with the chidori. byukagan doesn't have that capability since it doesn't allow the user to immediately read and react to opponents' moves.

[Kumiriko]

I thhink i summed it up decently even with the insuraty.

[CyberPunk]

yea, mut@t@ is right. the sharingan offers movement foresight which allows the user to counter attack more effectively. byakugan offers almost 360 degree vision, a view of the chakra highway in living beings, and that zoom thing that hinata did in the forest, all of which are awesome, but it doesn't offer insight to opponent's moves.

[w455up]

I'm personally a Neji fan, but I doubt he'd be able to learn Chidori. When Kakashi said Byakugan had better "insight" than Sharingan, I think he meant that it can see things with greater detail and focus than Sharingan, but it doesn't provide the auto-counters that Sharingan does through the "dot" things.

Also, with Rasengan, I guess any genius ninja might be able to master it given time, but Naruto was able to learn it quickly because he's using his own improvised method involving Kage Bunshin, which none of the genins have access to. Maybe after years of practice Neji might be able to master Rasengan, but we'll have to wait and see.

[polaris79]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: polaris79
I don't think this is true.

In addition to scope of perception (giving a larger sight field), the byukagan also gives sharpness of sight. Recall how during the Chuninn exams, when Neji was facing Hinata, he was able to see her slightest facial expressions.

Also, before the fighting stage of the Chuninn exams, during the forest stage, Hinanta was asked by Kiba to scout the forest for eneimes. With the byukagan, she was able to see far distances.

you're still not understanding it. sharingan allows the user to see and react to all types of jutsus/movements instantly which makes the chidori user to go in for a direct attack while still being able to dodge any incoming counter-attacks and still continue with the chidori. byukagan doesn't have that capability since it doesn't allow the user to immediately read and react to opponents' moves.My, my, you're fairly persistent at pressing home this point. =)

I disagree. While the sharingan is automatic with its jutsu copying, it doesn't translate into reflex-based responses. It takes conscience information processing to make tactical decisions like how to positionally counter the defensive response to the chidori. So all that is needed is to precisely see the counter. Sharingan offers the sharp sight. So does the byukagan.

Also, recall that the sharingan was derived from the byukagan. While there may be differences between the eye jutsus, there are also similariteis due to their common origin. One of those simlarities is the sharpness of sight.

[polaris79]

Originally posted by: w455up
I'm personally a Neji fan, but I doubt he'd be able to learn Chidori. When Kakashi said Byakugan had better "insight" than Sharingan, I think he meant that it can see things with greater detail and focus than Sharingan...Right, and I'm claming that this is all that's needed...



...but it doesn't provide the auto-counters that Sharingan does through the "dot" things.As mentioend in my last post, Sharingan doesn't give its user an auto-counter. Instead, it provides its owner 1.) Sharpness of sight, and 2.) An unconscience and automatic copying of jutsus. It is the former, rather than the later that is an indispensible ingredient to the chidori.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: polaris79
My, my, you're fairly persistent at pressing home this point. =)

I disagree. While the sharingan is automatic with its jutsu copying, it doesn't translate into reflex-based responses. It takes conscience information processing to make tactical decisions like how to positionally counter the defensive response to the chidori. So all that is needed is to precisely see the counter. Sharingan offers the sharp sight. So does the byukagan.

Also, recall that the sharingan was derived from the byukagan. While there may be differences between the eye jutsus, there are also similariteis due to their common origin. One of those simlarities is the sharpness of sight.

lol... dude, you're still not getting it man...

recall back to when sasuke activated his sharingan against haku. while his normal eyes could not see any of the movements, as soon as he activated his sharingan, sasuke was able to track haku's movements and react to them to a certain degree. that's why the sharingan is needed for someone to use the chidori effectively. the sharingan allows the user to basically see the movements instantly as they happen. it's almost like seeing every movement frame by frame.

now... last time i checked, there was nothing explained about byukagan letting the user to read and counter movements quicker than the normal eye. the sharp insight sharingan offers is different than byukagan's insight.

[CyberPunk]

Originally posted by: polaris79
Because of his diverse skill set, Neji should be able to master both the Rasengan and the Chidori.

Rasengan requires the user to not only have the chakra level capable of forcing chakra on the hand but the chakra control to properly focus it. As a prodigy of the Hyuga, Neji has chakra control superior to Naruto. If anything, Neji should be able to learn and master Rasengan more effiently than any character we've encountered so far.

As we all well know, Chidori is a technique unique to Sauske and Kakashi. It requires large stores of chakra, the ability to harness and control concetrated chakra, and an eye jutsu to see defensive counters. Neji has all of these. His Byakugan is as effective as Sharringan in its seeing abilities. There is no reason that Neji can't be as good as Suaske with the Chidori.

i also doubt that neji has the speed required to deliver the chidori. i'm sure he could learn it, but it would take him a bit longer to learn than sasuke.

[Raven]

I'm entering this thread late, and in reading it all at once I'd say respectfully to polaris79 that while you're presenting good arguements, you're not quite right in your reasoning. Mut@t@ is correct. I'd present my own arguement but I'd just be repeating what Mut@t@ has already said.

[polaris79]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
lol... dude, you're still not getting it man...
recall back to when sasuke activated his sharingan against haku. while his normal eyes could not see any of the movements, as soon as he activated his sharingan, sasuke was able to track haku's movements and react to them to a certain degree. that's why the sharingan is needed for someone to use the chidori effectively. the sharingan allows the user to basically see the movements instantly as they happen. it's almost like seeing every movement frame by frame.Granted.



now... last time i checked, there was nothing explained about byukagan letting the user to read and counter movements quicker than the normal eye.Being able to see nine birds flying overhead from an oblique angle doesn't qualify as seeing things sharply? Being able to see something sharply means being able to see a quick counter.

Let me spell out the process. Whether or not a fast movement can be seen depends on resolution of sight. To someone who can't quickly process the images, it'll appear to be a blur. I think it's clear that both eye jutsus can give its user high resolution of sight.

Sharingan gives its user an automatic copying of jutsus, NOT and auomatic physical reflex. The reflex part is a combination of reaction time (something that is all together unrelated to eye jutsus) and making the conscience decision in how to counter.

[Raven]

Originally posted by: polaris79
Being able to see nine birds flying overhead from an oblique angle doesn't qualify as seeing things sharply? Being able to see something sharply means being able to see a quick counter.
Yes, it's true that he can see the birds, but it doesn't mean he can automatically react instantly to them.

[polaris79]

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn
Yes, it's true that he can see the birds, but it doesn't mean he can automatically react instantly to them....and whether or not the reaction is instantaneous is unrelated to eye jutsus.

[CyberPunk]

the sharingan gives a great deal of foresight; meaning sasuke has an idea of shit before it happens.

[Raven]

Originally posted by: polaris79


Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn
Yes, it's true that he can see the birds, but it doesn't mean he can automatically react instantly to them....and whether or not the reaction is instantaneous is unrelated to eye jutsus.
Nah, it is related. The Sharingan allows much faster automatic reactions than the Byakugan, hence the fact that it's much more suited to Sasuke rather than Neji, like Mut@t@ was saying.

[Kumiriko]

*sigh* why did i bother

[polaris79]

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn
Nah, it is related. The Sharingan allows much faster automatic reactions than the Byakugan, hence the fact that it's much more suited to Sasuke rather than Neji, like Mut@t@ was saying.It doesn't. There's not automatic reflex. All there is is an instanteous copy of jutsus. When Sauske was getting his arse kicked by Rock Lee before the Chunnin matches, where were his relfexes?

Right, there weren't any. All he could do was "see" the moves. Being able to respond, or the reflex part of the Chidori, is something that comes with speed.

[Mut]

ok... i was already assuming that the sharingan use is fast enough to match his opponent.

but anyway, let me go back a little...

as i said, the sharingan let's the user see movements frame by frame which allows the user to see it and react to it given that the user is fast enough (i didn't think i needed to add the last 7 words to this sentence for you to understand but it seems that i have to). correct? of course. now... what does the byukagan do? it allows the user to see far distances like it's close as if the byukagan user is right in front of it. now... this is different than what the sharingan does. while the byukagan user sees far away things closely it does not sees the object's or opponent's movement like the way sharingan can. no matter how far or close the opponent is, the byukagan can't see the opponent move frame by frame like the sharingan which doesn't allow the time needed for the user to react. byukagan will always see it move at the same speed.

now given all that. as neji with his chidori charges at gaara, gaara's defense will pull out the spikes. as soon as the spikes come out byukagan will see it but neji won't have time to react to it since he can't see it fast enough. it's like in the matrix. neo can see all those bullets coming and dodge them which is what sasuke can do with his sharingan. but byukagan doesn't have that capability.

[Himura_san]

Originally posted by: polaris79


Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn
Yes, it's true that he can see the birds, but it doesn't mean he can automatically react instantly to them....and whether or not the reaction is instantaneous is unrelated to eye jutsus.

I think the main thing missing from this equation is the fact that Sasuke via the sharingan can emulate Rock Lee's taijutsu speed. This is the factor that is necessary for the chidori to work effectively. Neji's fighting method is a very stationary form he does not move too much he has a circle of Hakke where he does little movement. His other popular move is the heavinly spin, this offensive/definsive jutsu keeps him stationary and again there is little to no movement.
If Neji were to learn chidori he would have to completely change his fighting style.

[Raven]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
ok... i was already assuming that the sharingan use is fast enough to match his opponent.

but anyway, let me go back a little...

as i said, the sharingan let's the user see movements frame by frame which allows the user to see it and react to it given that the user is fast enough (i didn't think i needed to add the last 7 words to this sentence for you to understand but it seems that i have to). correct? of course. now... what does the byukagan do? it allows the user to see far distances like it's close as if the byukagan user is right in front of it. now... this is different than what the sharingan does. while the byukagan user sees far away things closely it does not sees the object's or opponent's movement like the way sharingan can. no matter how far or close the opponent is, the byukagan can't see the opponent move frame by frame like the sharingan which doesn't allow the time needed for the user to react. byukagan will always see it move at the same speed.

now given all that. as neji with his chidori charges at gaara, gaara's defense will pull out the spikes. as soon as the spikes come out byukagan will see it but neji won't have time to react to it since he can't see it fast enough. it's like in the matrix. neo can see all those bullets coming and dodge them which is what sasuke can do with his sharingan. but byukagan doesn't have that capability.
And there you have it. Brilliantly said. I take back my automatic statement, the Sharingan doesn't allow automatic reactions, but it does allow much quicker and accurate reactions and I'd say after years of use they'd become instinctively automatic.

[Shin_Naruto]

Its really simple guys:

The Sharingan allows for countering Ninjutsu and a resistance to Genjutsu, which the Byakugan lacks. This makes the Sharingan better then the Byakugan in a combat situation.

The Byakugan still allows for an advantage in sight that the Chidori can extort, but not much of one, as the Sharingan is still better and Chidori was made for the Sharingan.

Besides, with the Gentle Fist Style, hitting any area would allow for some serious damage... if not death. Why would he need a special chakra draining ability when he can practically do it for free. Neji is already awesome.
i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[AlbinoFury]

Originally posted by: polaris79


Originally posted by: AlbinoFury
those jutsus would clash drastically with his fighting style though, his style isnt to obliterate his foes but to shut them down. Sure with time he could prob learn either but they wouldnt work well with the hyuga style...i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gifI actually did realize this, and gave it some thought.

Any ninja needs to be equipted to deal with any situation. Chances are, Neji will face enemies who use nonanimate physical techniques for offense and/or defense (ie Gaara's sand). A doll (Gaara's brother's technique) or a shield of sand have no chakra points. This effecitvely nullifies the Hyuga Taijutsu.

If Neji had Chidori and/or Rasengan, he will actually be able to fight.

With his Haiten move (that chakra defensive swirl), we realize it's not as if Neji have to focuse exclusively to poking at chakra points and attacking inner organ systems. Any fighting system, no matter how dominant needs flexiblity. Chidori and Rasengan would offer that.

Sure versatility is nice but learning moves that are outside of your fighting style is worthless. That would be like telling rock lee to try to learn some ninjutsu, or telling neji to be a power fighter instead of a finesse and style fighter. Sure they might be moves they could learn but they both wouldnt want them, and they would prove less effective in their given styles. I can see alot more power in neji being able to fully combat someone with his chakra alone (thatd be cool he just stands there and his chakra kicks their ass). Anywho my point still stands that neither move fits the hyuga fighting style.

[Kale Ironfist]

I may be coming late into this thread, but i think these arguments will surely prove that Neji's Byakugan would be completely pointless in this equation.
1. Gaara's sand spikes could not have been seen by Nejis Byakugan because they are created at the surface of the sphere, therefore he would have been impaled by the sand spikes. Conclusion: his byakugan would have been useless and he would have been bleeding to death.
2. the sharingan gives the wielder lightning fast mental images of what it predicts (to an amazing amount of accuracy) will happen. the wielder needs physical speed in order to utilize the images given to him. this ability is not given by the Byakugan. Conclusion: Sharingan is required for Chidori (because it is not explosive)
3. Byakugan enhances vision ONLY. with training, Byakugan wielders can learn to read the persons body language to (almost) perfection. IT DOES NOT however, provide any sort of foresight on the movement of any target.

[Goingin]

Originally posted by: Kale Ironfist
3. Byakugan enhances vision ONLY. with training, Byakugan wielders can learn to read the persons body language to (almost) perfection. IT DOES NOT however, provide any sort of foresight on the movement of any target.

Thing i find strange about this point is that Neji did some sort of foresight in the Chuunin Exam while fighting against Naruto.

Remember, when Naruto got the nine-tails's power and increased his speed, Neji could see where he was (and that was not because Naruto was slowing down, they just made Naruto visible to the viewers or we couldnt have seen his move, the way he was drawn gives that away) and start his whirl.
When Neji then threw those... things.. (i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif) back at Naruto, Naruto gained some impressive speed and still Neji knew where he was, you could see Neji step back from the place Naruto appeared.. he knew where he was..

Was that foresight or could he see the speed?
Cause it wasnt just coincidence

[Stoopider]

Just a point to be taken when talking about Sharingan. (Adding to Mut@t@'s arguements)


Remember when Kakashi was copying Zabuza in the first battle vs him. He spoke out the words Zabuza was thinking.

Sharingan has the ability, (Not to read minds), but I think it's something to do with the eye, that it make the opponents tell you what their thinking about. Thus, you can predict his moves before it happens.


Whereas the Byukagun it can't. But Byukagun can see into a person's internal organs, chakra points so what not.


I bet both can learn the chidori and Rasengan. Chidori won't be helpful for Neji though. Rasengan would be helpful. If he can learn the technique within a few years. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Terracosmo]

NEJI CAN LEARN ANYTHING

</fanboy>

[Goingin]

Well... i agree with Terra on that even though i aint a fanboy..

Face it, he learned not to be so cocky about himself and the fate crap i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[JusDaMan]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

that's why kakashi taught sasuke the chidori and not naruto. without the sharingan, you can't attempt such a direct assault.


Thats not true! Without sharingan u CAN attemp a direct assult.. it just wont work... (not in naruto world anyway)
=P YOU STAND CORRECTED! ahahhahaha

[moridin]

I agree with Dazzz for once...*signal the end of the world*. Also, just because you see something sharper does not mean you can see something faster, sharper. Granted Neji can see images in sharper detail. However, this does not mean something faster than what his mind can process at one time will become sharper. It would still be a blur.

[Ryllharu]

Isn't the simple matter of why only Kakashi and Sasuke (and presumably Itachi) can use the chidori is because they have the Sharingan? Lee blatantly says that in chapter 114. The Byakugan is different from the Sharingan. The characters say the Byakugan is better BECAUSE it is different. Sasuke also spent the entire month of training they all had to build up his speed, he was not copying Lee, just using the same concept of high speed combos.

As for whether or not Neji could use the Rasengan, I suspect he probably could because it's based off fine chakra control, provided you have a huge amount of chakra to power it up. I still don't think he would learn it because like a lot of people have said, it's just not his style.


This argument is a little pointless because we are still not even sure if Neji is still alive. (I hope he is though)

[PSJ]

first of all nejis byakugen doesnt work in the same way as the sharingan at all. the sharingan can see movement very well and the byakugen is set for overall superior vision. byakugas isnt good enough to see a counter movement or anticipate attacks, thats what sharingan does. to be able to master the chidori you have to predict your oponents movement so you can strike at an undefenced bodypart. not something neji can do since he cant predict his oponents movements with byakugan. however he would be able to master the rasengan, every character could since there is no special term for using this jutsu but it wouldnt be cool to see half of the cast running around doing chidori.

[Hotsuma]

I think the Byakugan does allow certain reactions, based on the victims movements. Only in the Byakugan's case, it's purely psychological, as Neji pwned Hinata, in their discussion. By looking at every little detail in her face, body movements and probably breathing, he was able to determine what she was feeling, what her life is like, and even what kind of a person she is. Well, that could've been Neji's own quirk, though.

And Kakashi worked on Sasuke's body speed, because body speed was apparently required, in order to learn the Chidori.

I think it's very possible that Neji can learn it, too. As well as the Rasengan. Neither of them are blood-limits, which theoretically, make them possible. Provided,the learner has the chakra battery to do so.

Byakugan > Sharingan.

Neji > Sasule

Hyuga > Uchiha

[Noonan]

I don't know if neji has the chackra stamina to learn either move but I suppose its possible..

in essence the Rasengan requires a huge amount of chackra to be focused into a tiny vortex - Neji might have the ability to learn it - but I don't think he could learn it on his own ...

more interestingly what if after seing Naruto use the Rasengan a few times, he used the same chaotic vortex theory to make his own Kaiten more effective?

The Chidori on the other hand is just the abitlity to focus a crapload of your chackra into one hand and focus to a sharp plane - the sharingan is in no way required for it, but without the sharingan you are much more likely to miss, wasting the chakra -

Neji's abilities would allow him to use the chidori, but not as effectively as a sharingan user i think. but to be honest - his own soft hand style can cause fatal injuries with a much lower expendature of energy - why would he bother with a near-suicidal charge attack?

[EpoC]

isn't rasengan also an attack that goes straight to the enemy?

i wonder wich of them is the better. rasengan or chidori.

[Raven]

Just a question:

When we first saw the Rasengan, it was when Jiraiya used it against that Stone Village Chuunin or whoever he was. How come it only threw him back and made a hole in his clothes rather than kill and destroy him? We saw what Naruto's did to Kabuto, so shouldn't Jiraiya's have been much worse?

Maybe Jiraiya was holding back a LOT or something.

[JusDaMan]

When jiraiya did his rasengan it was on for only about maybe 2 second. not allowing the whirl to spin therefore not allowing it to get anystronger. so even at that 2 second it wooped the chuunin's ass...

when naruto did his to naruto. naruto probably hold it for 10+ seconds. then launched it.

[Raven]

Jiraiya was demonstrating to Naruto the new jutsu he would be learning, so I think he would have done a complete proper Rasengan to show him.

[AlbinoFury]

in the anime it clarified it a bit, he said something like, "I knew i was holding back a whole lot of its power, but geez you are weak" or something like that i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[orn210]

jiraiya did it on purpose he could have killed him with the rasengan easily and i think rasengan is more powerful cuz it doesnt go away after a blow but it will be more powerfull and will be used by the the chakra first used so its much more usefull than chidori

[FearTheMullet]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiyahowever he would be able to master the rasengan, every character could since there is no special term for using this jutsu but it wouldnt be cool to see half of the cast running around doing chidori.

Not jsut anyone can learn Rasengan, Naruto has gotten to step 3, but theres 8 (unless someone translated it wrong or i cant read english) and it took the 4th 3 years to master it perfectly. Not soething anyone could do. Or figure out, to their eyes it looks just like a ball, uless instructed by someone who knows it not jsut anybody can figure it out. As far as we know the only people with the ability to do the Ransengan are Erosenin and the 4th. And possibly Naruto.

[Hokage-IV]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
i dunno about rasengan. neji can shoot out chakra from any part of his body but he hasn't shown anything that tells us that he can manipulate chakra. rasengan needs chakra to be controlled in a certain way, neji's chakra controlling skills isn't really the same.

so let's say neji can do the chidori... i'm sure he'll be cool and all but too bad he won't be able to use it effectively as kakashi and sasuke since he doesn't have sharingan. chidori is suppose to be a straight on spearing type of attack. for attacking straight on, you need sharingan so can see any countering attacks coming at you while you're running at the opponent. you saw an example of this during sasuke vs gaara in the stadium.

this is dumb... Only the 4th and Jirariya was capable of doing the Rasengan, Kakashi saw it many times with his own eyes and the sharingan... if he cant do it what makes u think Neji can? Tsunade knows what it is so she mustve seen it b4 and yet she cant do it... what makes u think Neji can? so dumb...

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Hokage-IV


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
i dunno about rasengan. neji can shoot out chakra from any part of his body but he hasn't shown anything that tells us that he can manipulate chakra. rasengan needs chakra to be controlled in a certain way, neji's chakra controlling skills isn't really the same.

so let's say neji can do the chidori... i'm sure he'll be cool and all but too bad he won't be able to use it effectively as kakashi and sasuke since he doesn't have sharingan. chidori is suppose to be a straight on spearing type of attack. for attacking straight on, you need sharingan so can see any countering attacks coming at you while you're running at the opponent. you saw an example of this during sasuke vs gaara in the stadium.

this is dumb... Only the 4th and Jirariya was capable of doing the Rasengan, Kakashi saw it many times with his own eyes and the sharingan... if he cant do it what makes u think Neji can? Tsunade knows what it is so she mustve seen it b4 and yet she cant do it... what makes u think Neji can? so dumb...


You're a fucking dumbshit. When did it ever say that Kakashi wasn't able to do the Rasengan? Or Tsunade? Or even Neji for that matter? Just because they don't know it now, doesn't mean they can't learn it. That's the point of this discussion, you fucking douchebag. If a kid like Naruto, with no talent (and don't argue this with me, anybody) was able to learn, it's without a doubt, possible for Kakashi, Tsunade AND Neji to learn and do it.


For the sake of a hypothetical discussion, please keep the fuck out this thread. Kthnxbye.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Hokage-IV


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
i dunno about rasengan. neji can shoot out chakra from any part of his body but he hasn't shown anything that tells us that he can manipulate chakra. rasengan needs chakra to be controlled in a certain way, neji's chakra controlling skills isn't really the same.

so let's say neji can do the chidori... i'm sure he'll be cool and all but too bad he won't be able to use it effectively as kakashi and sasuke since he doesn't have sharingan. chidori is suppose to be a straight on spearing type of attack. for attacking straight on, you need sharingan so can see any countering attacks coming at you while you're running at the opponent. you saw an example of this during sasuke vs gaara in the stadium.

this is dumb... Only the 4th and Jirariya was capable of doing the Rasengan, Kakashi saw it many times with his own eyes and the sharingan... if he cant do it what makes u think Neji can? Tsunade knows what it is so she mustve seen it b4 and yet she cant do it... what makes u think Neji can? so dumb...

what the hell are you talking about, i never said neji can do it. i was just making up scenarios saying IF neji can do it blah blah blah.

so dumb...

[Hokage-IV]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: Hokage-IV


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
i dunno about rasengan. neji can shoot out chakra from any part of his body but he hasn't shown anything that tells us that he can manipulate chakra. rasengan needs chakra to be controlled in a certain way, neji's chakra controlling skills isn't really the same.

so let's say neji can do the chidori... i'm sure he'll be cool and all but too bad he won't be able to use it effectively as kakashi and sasuke since he doesn't have sharingan. chidori is suppose to be a straight on spearing type of attack. for attacking straight on, you need sharingan so can see any countering attacks coming at you while you're running at the opponent. you saw an example of this during sasuke vs gaara in the stadium.

this is dumb... Only the 4th and Jirariya was capable of doing the Rasengan, Kakashi saw it many times with his own eyes and the sharingan... if he cant do it what makes u think Neji can? Tsunade knows what it is so she mustve seen it b4 and yet she cant do it... what makes u think Neji can? so dumb...


You're a fucking dumbshit. When did it ever say that Kakashi wasn't able to do the Rasengan? Or Tsunade? Or even Neji for that matter? Just because they don't know it now, doesn't mean they can't learn it. That's the point of this discussion, you fucking douchebag. If a kid like Naruto, with no talent (and don't argue this with me, anybody) was able to learn, it's without a doubt, possible for Kakashi, Tsunade AND Neji to learn and do it.


For the sake of a hypothetical discussion, please keep the fuck out this thread. Kthnxbye.


calm down kid....

If you missed it.. Tsunade said only ppl who can use that jutsu is u (jiriaryia) and the 4th ....ill let you figure out what that means...


hypotheticl discussion? ... ask urself is Jiriaya gonna teach Neji the Rasengan?

[Mut]

loolloolollololol... you missed it.

just because one hasn't learned something it doesn't mean that he or she cannot do it once they learn it.

and i don't think you know what hypothetical means...

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Hokage-IV


Originally posted by: Hotsuma


Originally posted by: Hokage-IV


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
i dunno about rasengan. neji can shoot out chakra from any part of his body but he hasn't shown anything that tells us that he can manipulate chakra. rasengan needs chakra to be controlled in a certain way, neji's chakra controlling skills isn't really the same.

so let's say neji can do the chidori... i'm sure he'll be cool and all but too bad he won't be able to use it effectively as kakashi and sasuke since he doesn't have sharingan. chidori is suppose to be a straight on spearing type of attack. for attacking straight on, you need sharingan so can see any countering attacks coming at you while you're running at the opponent. you saw an example of this during sasuke vs gaara in the stadium.

this is dumb... Only the 4th and Jirariya was capable of doing the Rasengan, Kakashi saw it many times with his own eyes and the sharingan... if he cant do it what makes u think Neji can? Tsunade knows what it is so she mustve seen it b4 and yet she cant do it... what makes u think Neji can? so dumb...


You're a fucking dumbshit. When did it ever say that Kakashi wasn't able to do the Rasengan? Or Tsunade? Or even Neji for that matter? Just because they don't know it now, doesn't mean they can't learn it. That's the point of this discussion, you fucking douchebag. If a kid like Naruto, with no talent (and don't argue this with me, anybody) was able to learn, it's without a doubt, possible for Kakashi, Tsunade AND Neji to learn and do it.


For the sake of a hypothetical discussion, please keep the fuck out this thread. Kthnxbye.


calm down kid....

If you missed it.. Tsunade said only ppl who can use that jutsu is u (jiriaryia) and the 4th ....ill let you figure out what that means...


hypotheticl discussion? ... ask urself is Jiriaya gonna teach Neji the Rasengan?

You really are a total dumbass.

Jiraiya and the 4th are the only two to know the Jutsu. Does that mean nobody else can learn it? Well, that can't be, because Naruto proved that theory wrong.

Just shut the fuck up, already.

[Hokage-IV]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
loolloolollololol... you missed it.

just because one hasn't learned something it doesn't mean that he or she cannot do it once they learn it.

and i don't think you know what hypothetical means...

you trying to take up some of my time? well.. its ok i have some time to spare...


Im fully aware what he is trying to say....... I do acknowledge and i never said other ppl cant learn it, but this topic was on specific character... and the empashis was on the bakugan and I find Bakugan so irrelevant to learning Rasengan and compared to sharingan.. If some one with Sharingan hasnt learned it what makes you think Neji can? its a simple question after u ask urself .. Is Jiriaria gonna teach Neji the Rasengan?

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Hokage-IV


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
loolloolollololol... you missed it.

just because one hasn't learned something it doesn't mean that he or she cannot do it once they learn it.

and i don't think you know what hypothetical means...

you trying to take up some of my time? well.. its ok i have some time to spare...


Im fully aware what he is trying to say....... I do acknowledge and i never said other ppl cant learn it, but this topic was on specific character... and the empashis was on the bakugan and I find Bakugan so irrelevant to learning Rasengan and compared to sharingan.. If some one with Sharingan hasnt learned it what makes you think Neji can? its a simple question after u ask urself .. Is Jiriaria gonna teach Neji the Rasengan?

don't act like your time is more valuable than any other's time. you're not any better than us.

anyway, i'm glad that you're aware of what i'm saying. but since you went back on to the main concept of the topic, it seems that you don't actually fully understand it.

1. i have absolutely no idea why you're asking if someone with sharingan hasn't learned rasengan, why i think someone with byukagan can. like you said byukagan has nothing to do with learning the rasengan. byukagan and sharingan were brought up mainly for the reason that sharingan is needed to effectively use chidori. and someone thought byukagan could be a possible substitute for sharingan (which is not). byukagan or sharingan was never brought up when we were discussing about if neji is able to do rasengan or not. only neji's ability to control chakra was brough up when involving rasengan.

2. now, you bring up if jiraiya is gonna teach neji the rasengan. honestly and obviously, the answer is no. but we're talking about if jiraiya had taught neji the rasengan, would neji be able to perform the technique. ok?

i think you're a teeny bit confused on what's going on here.

[Hotsuma]

Originally posted by: Hokage-IV


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
loolloolollololol... you missed it.

just because one hasn't learned something it doesn't mean that he or she cannot do it once they learn it.

and i don't think you know what hypothetical means...

you trying to take up some of my time? well.. its ok i have some time to spare...


Im fully aware what he is trying to say....... I do acknowledge and i never said other ppl cant learn it, but this topic was on specific character... and the empashis was on the bakugan and I find Bakugan so irrelevant to learning Rasengan and compared to sharingan.. If some one with Sharingan hasnt learned it what makes you think Neji can? its a simple question after u ask urself .. Is Jiriaria gonna teach Neji the Rasengan?


Look up the word hypothetical, dumbass.

Nowhere in Naruto does it say that any jutsu (minus the blood limits) can only be learned by a select few. Neji can learn it, given he's under the right tuitilege, and has the proper concentration (which can be worked on)

[Assertn]

alright look guys, here's my thoughts on the byakugan vs sharingan being able to counter moves and such debate.....

getting straight to the point, byakugan should be able to observe opponents movements better than sharingan
HOWEVER, it cannot identify an attack better than sharingan

whats the difference? well in terms of simple taijutsu, byakugan would probably be a little more accurate, since kakashi DID say that byakugan surpasses sharingan in terms of insight, and being able to see somebody throwing a punch should fall into that category. Also, remember when lee was busting out the ura renge on gaara? Neji was using his byakugan to observe the match. This is because it lets him see lee's insane speed better than if he wasnt using byakugan. So, if neji w/ chidori was charging at a sand sphere that can shoot spikes out, would he be able to dodge the spikes? chances are yes. He would know what to expect (from simply testing it beforehand like sasuke did), and its nothing but straight jabs of sand.

If its something more complex, however, like a ninjutsu or higher level taijutsu then im sure thats where sharingan would have the upper hand, since his eye couldnt interpret the jutsu.

Thus, neji can counter some attacks, and those he can do better than an uchiha could. Although the slight advantage he may have in those scenarios are outweighed by the much more versatile sharingan. Besides, neji's taijutsu isnt at the level of lee's anyway, so not only would he not be able to move fast enough for the jab, but it would bottlecap his countering abilites to a level lower than the response time of a sharingan.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: JusDaMan
When jiraiya did his rasengan it was on for only about maybe 2 second. not allowing the whirl to spin therefore not allowing it to get anystronger. so even at that 2 second it wooped the chuunin's ass...

when naruto did his to naruto. naruto probably hold it for 10+ seconds. then launched it.


its more like he held it back, a jutsu isnt workign like for example a power shot in a game. the longer you hold it the stronger it gets. jiraiya used neough strength to push the chuunin backwards since he didnt need to kill him.

[Death BOO Z]

Rasengan 1O1 class!

the 'perfect' form of the rasengan (at least what we've seen so far) is releasing the pressure of the chackra ball at a single spot. the imprefect form of the rasengan is flawed becuase the chackra is released before the moment of impact, so it's sprades over a wider space, but loses most of it's power...

when Jiraya showed Naruto the rasengan for the first time (on the stone chunin), he 'popped' the ball in his hands, which caused the chackra to run wild and windy, which pushed the chunin back but without any serious damage...

so far, Naruto doesn't know what effects the Rasengan has over a human body, seeing how Kabuto took the hit quite well...

[Assertn]

i think the power of the rasengan is just a matter of HOW much chakra is put in to create the ball shape
you should be able to make a ball using any variable amount of chakra, since its just the spinning motion of the chakra itself

[jing]

i'd just like to mention that. Neji CAN learn chidori and rasengan. but of course he probably won't be as effective as sasuke cuz he has sharingan.

and for neji to learn rasengan, he would have to train for years. maybe 10 years if yondaime was a genius and it took him 3 years.

because of the fact that Naruto's hands had kyubi's healing power, he was able to learn it quickly. A normal person would have to probably rest for a while/hand explodes from overpracticing.

[Lithonite]

i suppose i cant keep quite any longer on this one. the byakagan would be able to use the chidori- its "perceptive" abuility exceeds that of the sharingan. for isnstance. when neji was battling kidomaru he saw that kido was going to attack vai mouth though the chakra movement in his neck and face toward his mouth- it is clear that the tenkesu and meridians were a diffrent coler than the inactive one. Neji would be able to see where an attack was going to come from clearly with this ability. He has the eye, for sure. as for the rasegan well actually teh abuility to push chakra through all the tenkitsu of his body takes incredable chakra control- more than most jounins. as most jounin can only do it through 1 part.

the fact the neji can see 360 degree's has nothing to do with hs penetrating sight, or his perceptive abuilities. the fact he is able to perform his kaiten- mean that during set spin he is control chakra flow out of his body through every part- further more during his figh with kidomaru he was able to focus cackra 50 out, and only within the few radians of his blind spot.

i would have to say effective use of chidori is definately possible by Neji, and most likely if told the basics of the rasegan he would be able to figure, how to perform it RELATIVELY easily- with his current chakra control and ability.

as for power, hrmm i am under the impression Naruto was not using te kyubi chakra when he perform the rasegan. although sme tend to believe so. he has more than enough chakra of his own to perform that technique remember the multiples of kage bushin he performed. during gaara fight- this was before he acces the kyubi chakra from what i can tell- its seen best in the anime as it was blue chkra we know not only from watching te anime but from te conversation with jiraiya about his two chakra and the two colors they are.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Lithonite
i suppose i cant keep quite any longer on this one. the byakagan would be able to use the chidori- its "perceptive" abuility exceeds that of the sharingan. for isnstance. when neji was battling kidomaru he saw that kido was going to attack vai mouth though the chakra movement in his neck and face toward his mouth- it is clear that the tenkesu and meridians were a diffrent coler than the inactive one. Neji would be able to see where an attack was going to come from clearly with this ability. He has the eye, for sure. as for the rasegan well actually teh abuility to push chakra through all the tenkitsu of his body takes incredable chakra control- more than most jounins. as most jounin can only do it through 1 part.

the fact the neji can see 360 degree's has nothing to do with hs penetrating sight, or his perceptive abuilities. the fact he is able to perform his kaiten- mean that during set spin he is control chakra flow out of his body through every part- further more during his figh with kidomaru he was able to focus cackra 50 out, and only within the few radians of his blind spot.

i would have to say effective use of chidori is definately possible by Neji, and most likely if told the basics of the rasegan he would be able to figure, how to perform it RELATIVELY easily- with his current chakra control and ability.

as for power, hrmm i am under the impression Naruto was not using te kyubi chakra when he perform the rasegan. although sme tend to believe so. he has more than enough chakra of his own to perform that technique remember the multiples of kage bushin he performed. during gaara fight- this was before he acces the kyubi chakra from what i can tell- its seen best in the anime as it was blue chkra we know not only from watching te anime but from te conversation with jiraiya about his two chakra and the two colors they are.

i'm not sure if i understand correctly but... are you trying to say that byukagan can be a replacement for the sharingan for a someone to attack with the chidori effectively? if you are... then i don't think your example about kidoumaru helps your argument. being able to see something as it happens frame by frame, basically in slowmo, is different than seeing something happen at normal speed far away from you.

if i totally misunderstood you, then nm.

[Assertn]

did you guys completely forget about my big post near the end of the previous page? i had a nice explanation of why neji could perform chidori, and some of the pros and cons of doing it with byakugan instead of sharingan

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
Rasengan 1O1 class!

the 'perfect' form of the rasengan (at least what we've seen so far) is releasing the pressure of the chackra ball at a single spot. the imprefect form of the rasengan is flawed becuase the chackra is released before the moment of impact, so it's sprades over a wider space, but loses most of it's power...

when Jiraya showed Naruto the rasengan for the first time (on the stone chunin), he 'popped' the ball in his hands, which caused the chackra to run wild and windy, which pushed the chunin back but without any serious damage...

so far, Naruto doesn't know what effects the Rasengan has over a human body, seeing how Kabuto took the hit quite well...

remember what jiraiya showed him on the tree. he showed him how powerful a real rasengan is. if naruto cant think of how the damage will be on a person he cant be smart, and he is smarter than that.

[SideLabel]

You're missing the point. Sharingan, at least in my opinion, grants the user the ability of insight, while the Byakugan grants the user the ability of visiblity. Let me elaborate. A Sharingan user can, for example, see and understand what technique his opponent will use, and therefore also understand that he either needs to move out of the way, or counter it. The theory that it grants automatic reactions is utter bullshit. It is a tool, not a controlling device. The Sharingan isn't doing the fighting. On the other hand, a Byakugan user can see around himself (referring to Neji) in pretty much a 360 degree circle. He can see, he can predict, but he can't see what technique person x is going to use. He does not know what he needs to do to counter it, or how for that matter. Sharingan can see some and understand, Byakugan can see all, but not understand

Also, the powers of these eye techniques depends a lot on the user. Experience and strength must be huge factors in how well they help the user. Sasuke still got his ass whopped by Lee with the Sharingan. Even if you can see it doesn't mean you can do anything about it. It's like tripping and falling into the road infront of a comming car; you know it is going to hit you, but you can't do anything.

While technically anyone could learn the Chidori and Rasengan, they may not be able to use it. The fact that Kakashi and Sasuke use the Chidori at high running speeds does not mean it can't be used in other ways. And while neither Naruto or Jiraiya used the Rasengan at high running speeds, it does not mean it can't be used that way. Just because one thing is one way doesn't mean there can't be another way.

[Assertn]

yes......thats......pretty much exactly what i posted earlier i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

although i'd have to argue your first sentence, since kakashi said so himself that "byakugan is better than sharingan in terms of insight".....but i still know what you're gettin at

[_gaara_]

Who cares, I'd rather had sharingan and look totally badass with red eyes and four pupils, than have byakugan and look like some blind freak with veins popping out of my head...

[FearTheMullet]

Originally posted by: _gaara_
Who cares, I'd rather had sharingan and look totally badass with red eyes and four pupils, than have byakugan and look like some blind freak with veins popping out of my head...


BLEH! Sharingans a wussy tool. It just goes *pop* and your eyes are red and quadrapupiled. Byakugan opens up great -BYAKUGAN!!!-. Now thats badass. And who said blind people cant be badass. Stevie Wonder is the most baddass mofoshoosta on the planet. Hes blind.

[Kalean]

You know, this entire argument is pointless since we all know that Neji would be more effective with the chidori than any non sharingan user, period, and we all know that the Chidori isn't entirely a double edged sword. We also have seen that Neji is very effective and doing unusual things with his chakra, I would imagine he has the kind of mindset to get the rasengan figured out quickly enough, since he already is into spinning moves ;P However, in the end, I have to agree with Mut@t@'s side on this one. The Byakugan might give him great insight, and possibly even warning about an attack due to chakra buildup, but in the end, it's not as good as the sharingan in that respect. The sharingan was faster than sasuke's brain for quite a while in the manga, enabling to see things he couldn't move fast enough to counter. That's a definate improvement, and until the manga states otherwise, we have to assume that the byakugan doesn't do that. However, I am a Neji fan, and I reckon if there's anyone besides Rock Lee who's fast enough to pull off a Chidori attack successfully, it's Neji. Conversation ended.

[Assertn]

.........once again another poster has overlooked the fact that i pointed this out.....
except this time he gives credit to the guy who is arguing the total opposite!

and the "double edge sword" factor with regards to chidori would be the fact that your hand gets all ripped up in the process

[Death BOO Z]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure

and the "double edge sword" factor with regards to chidori would be the fact that your hand gets all ripped up in the process

really? I thought that the 'double edge' was becuase you had to be an Uchiha to use the chidori, and that means thay you're either dead, or that you're Sasuke...

that sure does sound like a drawback to me, doesn't it?

[Assertn]

what? either you're being sarcastic......or you dont know what it means for something to be a "double edged sword"

a double edged sword is something that harms both yourself AND your target....like lee's lotus moves.

now from your reasoning, it would be better to say "being an uchiha is a double edged sword", since this means you are from a genius clan, yet you are destined to be killed by itachi. Although its not really a double edged sword unless you are AWARE that it is, and not only do people have no choice about what clan they are born into, but i dont think any of them expected to be killed by another uchiha.

[Death BOO Z]

Geez, if i wouldn't have known better, i would say that you're one of the guys who open up threads called 'Kakashi theory' and write that they think that the sharingan eye belonged to someone else... or the guys who look at this picture (http://deathbooz.mediahalo.com/image/fi44d0b471.upload/Tensai.JPG) and then go around asking when did it appear in the anime...

(yep, i'm self promoting my crappy editing, got a problem with that?)


of course I was being sarcastic, isn't it obvious? or should I put a 'sarcazem' tag?

you know what? from now on, i'll use the tag!

and just FYI, I have yet to see even a picture of a double edged sword, so I seriously doubt something like that really existed... from what I know, the term comes from the bible, when one guy killed some other fat king with a double edged knife, but what they meant was a knife with a blade on both vertical sides (right and left, like a dagger, and unlike a kitchen knife), and not a with blade pointing at the wielder...
oh, and darth maul (Star wars movie I) doesn't count.

[_gaara_]

Dude, it isn't a literal double-edged sword. The figurative meaning of a double-edged sword is different from a double-edged sword in real life (if there even is such a thing).

[Death BOO Z]

dude... you're being an idiot...

read again the last paragraph i wrote, now, once you see the words 'the term' realize that I know what i'm writing about and stop being an idiot...

you know what? to make it easier for you, i'll go and bold those two words....

oh, and from where do you think the pharse came from? out of thin air? it came becuase people once used (or were believed to use) double edged swords...


man, what's up with the world today... everybody's trying so hard to get on my nerevs with stupid things they say... or maybe i'm just feeling extra bitchy today, who knows...

[Superman]

I think Neji has the chakra control, and the talent to learn both the moves, but I don't think he has enough chakra to pull them off.

[Zansatsu]

Umm... I always thought that both Byakugan and Sharingan could see movement frame by frame ( in 'slow motion' if you will) i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif

[Hero-Sennin]

WAAARGH FOR F*CKS SAKES! Ive only read the first page of this damn thread and had to go to the effort of changing my password cos I forgot it JUST TO SAY HOW DUMB THIS POLARIS79 dude is. For fucks sakes dude. Sharingan has the quickest reaction time, by using sharingan, the user can READ YOUR MOVEMENTS AS SOON AS YOU DECIDE TO USE THEM. Sharingan doesn't have to see you move, it can TELL what you are going to do thus offering superior reactions. Byakugan can just see 360 degress plus it can see chakra in people and their insides (to some extent), it cannot, well, almost-read-minds like the sharingan does. Really dude, EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD IS SAYING THE SAME THING MAN. Byakugan is not as good as Sharingan for reactions as Byakugan entirely relies on the user to see and react to a counter, Whereas Sharingan is relied on BY the user to let him/her know what move the opponent is about to use. Take a look at Kakashi vs Itachi's mmate with the Eat-y Sword, Kakashi managed to pull off the same water jutsu as this dude before he'd even done it. They both formed hand seals EXACTLY the same time, because kakashi could see (using sharingan) what he was going to do. [And before anyone says it, I dont mean the fight against Zabuza where he hypnotised him] There is no way on earth a byakugan user would have been able to do this, because they can only SEE WHAT IS PHYSICALLY HAPPENING, they cannot interpret peoples thought/movement patterns like the Sharingan can.

For fucks sakes dude. We million people who are arguing with you are right. And there's no point saying "I disagree" because its not an opinion based matter, its fact that what we are all saying is correct.

Hero-Fuckin-Sennin

P.S - Ive now gone on to read the rest, and noticed that the tard to whom i was earlier referring shut his cake-hole. Good stuff, however some of you guys really dont know shit man. Ur all talking about what this guy said or what the abilities are, orWHETHER NEJI COULD DO RASENGAN. Im sure neji could do rasengan, im sure with enough practise, fucking that litle kid - Konohamaru - could fucking do the rasengan. Jeebus! i think generally the idea is that AT that age onloy 4th and Jirayia could do the rasengan (sounds like a dance dunnit). Crikey, look, Kakashis comment about better insight from byakugan meant that he was able to see the tenketsu and the flow of chakra, Neji's face reading theory is bullshit he just knows how to read peoples movement, Sharingan lets you read peoples thoughts (good example already used, the Zabuza talking bit with kakashi, and the example i used earlier with Eat-y Sword guy) . So really shut up all you cocks, and simply if you dont know what ur on about, dont post is son.

==

[Assertn]

interesting rationality, Hero-Sennin, however your hastily written vent of rage does little to support your argument. If you read through the whole conversation, you'd catch some points that support the idea that byakugan can see the enemy's movements just as well as the sharingan can (reading jutsus is a different matter, but thats just a little plus for sharingan's behalf). Rasengan, sure, its a crazy technique that took the 4th three years to master, but that doesnt mean neji couldnt perform it half-decently after 6 years of training.

Also, you're wrong about sharingan reading people's thoughts.......it doesnt.....
re-watch the scene where kakashi fights zabuza on the bridge. Zabuza specifically says that kakashi uses hypnoses to make people THINK he can read their mind, by suggesting to them the moves and actions that he wants them to perform.

[Hero-Sennin]

Hey dude, thanks for replying. Blatantly i didnt explain myself properly, because im sorta known to come on in stoned ramblings. Im sober for once look! Wahay. My main points are

Sharingan is capable of allowing the user more time to react than that of a byakugan user because byakugan does not work the same as the sharingan does. Regardless of the fact that Byakugan can see the tenketsu and chakra paths etc, and regardless of the fact the byakugan has such a good scope of vision (360 and long distance) it doesnt give the same reaction time to the user. A Sharingan user would see a move faster than a Byakugan user.

To do the Chidori, as explained by Kakashi, one uses a Staight thrust. This is a head on move which requires the speed of sight provided by the Sharingan (which is quicker than the Byakugan), and the supreme Taijutsu ability (for instance that of Rock Lee) in order to have the speed to avoid any counter attack.

At the moment Neji doesn't have the 'eye' for it nor the speed.
And so my conclusion is that he is incapable of doing the Chidori (without getting killed in the process).

In regards to Rasengan, You misread my bit there dude. I agreed that Neji could do Rasengan. I doubt he has half the Chakra capacity to do it as well as Naruto (with his cheating bastard Kuybi), but like I said above, even that little Konohamaru guy could probably do the Rasengan - with enough practise.

And the episode I was referring to I am completely aware that he was 'making' Zabuza do those moves. What I was referring to is the way that as soon as Zabuza decided what he was going to SAY to Kakashi, kakashi knew what he was going to say - "That damn monkey eye..." "'...Is Freaking me out' right?".

Plus more evidence to prve that Sharingan sorta reads minds - Not entirely reads minds, but can read what your brain is telling your body to do if you get me.

When Kakashi and Itachi are fighting over the lake, Kakashi cant even see the hand forming the seals but knows what technique to expect and managed to dodge accordingly. Plus when his replication is fighting Itachi's mate, he copies his move instantly, this wasn't hypnosis, this was reading the movements from his eyes.

[PSJ]

the reading "minds" is really just reading body movements. and kakashi used the dragon blast no jutsu against zabuza too, so he knew it when he did it to kisame. what he did to zabuza when he "read his mind" was phycology combined with seeing body movement.

the chidori can probably be done by someone without the sharingan but it wouldnt work as good. Hero-sennin, naruto isnt using kyuubi chakra he is using his own chakra when he does it. he hasnt used kyuubi chakra in a while(exept fighting kimimaro).

[Assertn]

well Hero-sennin, i have one argument against your first 3 points.....
when lee was unlocking gates against gaara and started moving faster than anybody could see.....what did both kakashi and neji do? use their bloodlimit. What would be the point of neji using byakugan to watch lee's fight if his eye cant see fast movement? There hasnt yet been a situation that proves a hyuuga CAN'T see a person moving as well as a sharingan user. Since both are of the same lineage, and are similiar in terms of insight, then i cant see why byakugan can't follow an enemy's movements.

The difference, imo, is that byakugan cant interpret jutsus, which means if the enemy is doing hand seals, then they wouldnt know how to react.

and with the bridge scene, zabuza specifically says that kakashi's hypnotic eye trick is desgined to make the victim THINK that his mind is being read. And he also clearly states that the reason is from a form of hypnosis that the eye creates. (which is most likely a much weaker version of the tsukuyomi)

[PSJ]

i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif must have missed that part. then my theory on how he did it goes out the window i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Assertn]

oh, btw PSJ, the move kakashi used on kisame wasnt the same as the move he copied from zabuza i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif The one he used on kisame was some "shark missile" thing, i think

i recall that when he used the water dragon blast on zabuza, zabuza was freaking out about how kakashi was able to perform that jutsu. He was perfectly aware that kakashi can copy stuff, but i wonder if that response he made hints that he has stolen more bloodlines than just the sharingan (as if perhaps the water dragon thing was part of a bloodline of some sort as well)

[PSJ]

hmm maybe the jutsu kisame used was water dragon missile in that case cause form what i remember it was something with dragon.

[shinobi_of_wind]

i think the sharingan reads your opponents body movements and figure out what hes going to do a second before hes does it. or it is like a spidysense. in the first spiderman movie he dodges the punch to him it is in slow motion i think the sharingan reads your enemys movements and you see them moving frame by frame (the frame by frame has been said by someone already) or slow motion so you can effectivly dodge block or counter your opponents attack while the white eyes allow you to see in all directions and see everything down to the smallest detail so my conslusion is that neji could learn it he just would need to be extremly fast to dodge his oppoents attacks

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya
hmm maybe the jutsu kisame used was water dragon missile in that case cause form what i remember it was something with dragon.

zabuza used the water dragon jutsu, kisame used the shark.