Theory on Hand Seals

[tuggumkee]

This is a Theory.<u>Theory</u>

After a ninja uses a move consistantly and the move is pretty simple, they dont need to use hand seals.

Its shown in the way kakashi can do kawarmi(sp?) the replacement jutsu without doing hand seals. He never does them, where as sakura has to do numerous hand seals in the forest(2nd test in chuunin exam)

Also kakashi doesn't have to use seals to do clones(water/kage/other). This is shown when he fights zanza, when he fights itachi. Granted he does do one seal when he is on the bridge after zanza lost the capability to fight and they were scaring the mob, but he doesn't do nearly as many hand seals as naruto does when he does kage bunshin.

Sasuke when he first uses the Chidori against Gaara, he uses numerous hand seals. However when he fight itachi, he doesn't use any hand seals. Also kakashi doesn't use any hand seals when he does chidori.

Itachi - doesn't show any hand seals.

Orochimaru - Hardly ever uses hand seals, but can do the mud clone thing, the turn into a shadow, numerous other things without hand seals.

So my theory is that after gaining a certain amount of experiance in using a jutsu, you no longer need to actually form the serperate hand seals. Of course it would be easier to learn the simple jutsus than hard ones.(kawarmi vs. kage bunshin)

What do u guys think?

[Y]

I think the seals are just a focusing method. It would explain why the aging Sarutobi needed them to do fairly basic jutsus, while the fresh Hokages used one or two.

[tuggumkee]

I think its more than just focusing, because naruto was focusing alot when he was fighting kiba(enough to fart) but he still had to do seals. There has to be some sort of learning curve implemented in the hand seals. Also kakashi when he does kawarmi(sp?) in the very beggining he is reading come come paradise. I doubt he was focusing really hard on the jutsu

[Y]

Naruto sucks at focusing chakra. Even with all his attention focused on using his power he still is far, far more wasteful than the other Genins. Maybe that's why he needs to use seals?

Also, the focusing idea doesn't rule out yours. After Kakashi's done that jutsu a zillion times he doesn't even need to think about the way he manipulates his power to do it: he just does it.

[originalkrn]

that does make a lot of sense - the gaining skill. I think it is to focus chakra tho.

[chambers]

yeah kinda like the way couting sheep wont actually help yopu sleep, it just makes you concentrate on sleeping and stop thinking abotu other things!

[Mae]

I'm almost certain that Itachi does use hand seals. It's just that he's so fast it's hard to catch him at it. In his fight with Kakashi Itachi pulls out some weapon with one hand and does seals with the other. Kakashi makes some kind of comment about how the weapon was a distraction and the hand seals were so fast even he couldn't follow them.

I guess he can do hand seals with one hand, and that's supposed to be difficult.

[kupalmaru]

"Itachi - doesn't show any hand seals."

Remember when itachi and Kakashi was on the water he did not see itachi's hand seal because Kakashi said Itachi was fast.



"Orochimaru - Hardly ever uses hand seals, but can do the mud clone thing, the turn into a shadow, numerous other things without hand seals."

When you do a cloning, for safety reason like the one that Oro did with the mad, you are not suppose to show you are doing a cloning jutso what's the point if the enemy is going to know. When Naruto do a cloning his enemy is going to say "o my god it's a clone"; because they did not see do a hand seal. Naruto still uses hand seal when he clone his self during the beginning of the fight.



"Sasuke when he first uses the Chidori against Gaara, he uses numerous hand seals. However when he fight itachi, he doesn't use any hand seals. Also kakashi doesn't use any hand seals when he does chidori."

The hand seal was not made because that part woul be less dramatic if there was hand seal.
When Kakashi do a chidori with Zabuza I think he did some hand seal.

[Stoopider]

Y THe Alien = Correct.

[SofaKing]

I think it's just too hard to animate the characters doing the hand seals each time, and would slow down the
fight. I think that the characters are still doing them, but they just aren't shown.

[kage_bunshin]

Personally i'm thinking that hand seals are only used for setting the user's chakra in a certain mode. Once the hand seals are performed, the chakra is 'set' to that mode. for e.g. 2 hours after the seals are done, the jutsu can be executed without doing the seals again.

I think thats why sasuke didn't need to redo the hand seal when doing chidori against itachi in ep84

This is just my opinion/theory though.

[SK]

i think you may be right, after a while you may know the jutsu so well that you dont need to concentrate your chakra so much. but i think sometimes they just do the hand seals really fast or with one hand sometimes like itachi. also i think the animators might just want to show the jutsu and you just have to assume the hand seals were performed.

[dragon]

hand seals show the element of the chakra ok athe hands seals that sasuke uses against garra are signs of the bird and dog and naruto is dog and frog itachi's hands are hidden under his jacket

[Mut]

dude... no one can do jutsus without hand seals. it is kishimoto's choice to not show that on purpose.

[PSJ]

my theory is its not interesting to see hand seals being half of the show so they choose not to show them most of the time, the reason why they show sakura do hand seals on a basic jutsu is because a) its the frist time we see her use it. b) it gives the fight the feel that she really is trying her best.
the reaosn why they dont show itachi do seals is to give him a superior feel. the hand seal arent just there for doing the jutsu they also give the show a certain feel when they are used or not used.

[random]

just some other example shown in the anime: The second could use suiton suijin heki with two hand seals (two that aren't even one of the 12 hand seals that everyone knows... tiger, dog, bird.. etc) while kakashi had to use numerous hand seals to do the same technique when fighting itachi...

in the first few episodes.. when kakashi uses the water element water dragon thingy... they had to use like dozens of hand seals... while the third who used a similar technique only an earth element (doton doryudan or whatever) used maybe 10 or less.. then right after... combined karyudan with it...

my theory is there must be a way to join jutsus with 'short cut' hand seals.. and maybe those hand seals that aren't of the dog, tiger, bird, etc. are like short cuts... also that once you've done certain hand seals you don't have to repeat them for a certain amount of time..

and as for jutsu's with no hand seals... things like seini jashu (shadow snake whatever) sometime seem like they're done without hand seals..... or how about the fact that orochimaru can stretch his neck like a snake without using his hands (its also shown in the manga after his hands are burnt but i won't discuss it)..... anyways.. if stretching his neck isn't considered a jutsu... he has one disturbing talent...

[jing]

itachi and kakashi does hand seals too fast...

[Aeon]

I agree with kage_bunshin, when ever we saw Neji and Hinata use the Byuugan they did hand seals to set it up and then were able to activate it anytime they wanted.

[Shin_Naruto]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
dude... no one can do jutsus without hand seals. it is kishimoto's choice to not show that on purpose.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

so right

Naruto never showed the hand seals to make clones until he was in Haku's Ice Prison. He had just used clones vs the 2 samurai characters just before. so that kinda rules out the '2 hour' thing.

Kishimoto just chooses when it adds to the story or flare of the anime. For example, when the 3rd did those seals uber fast it was just cool.

[kaigan]

i agreed.would it be boring and pointless everytime they do a jutsu, they start showing the hand seals? now, once a while be be kool and adds sparks to the show.

[mak3]

Hi ppl first post!

But isn't Orochimaru screwed because he can no longer do hand seals and therefore no jutsu?

"give me back my jutsu!" he said to the third

So they must have to do hand seals to perform jutsus, we just don't see all of them cos the shows only 20min.

[Mae]

Welcome to the forums, and that is a very good point. I agree that no hands seals = no justus.

Kinda off topic, but does anyone know where the whole using hand seals to do magic tradition comes from? I've seen it in several different series, both anime and live action. Of course I can't think of a good example now...&gt;_&lt; I think it was in Ghost Hunters, Yu Yu Hakusho (?sp), maybe Vampire Princess Miyu and something old called Tokyo Babylon. I want to say it's a Shinto thing because it's used in exorcisms, but it might be Taoist or Buddist.

[phasev]

As one poster had mentioned earlier Hand Seals are used to focus the mind in traditional Budo.

http://www.furyu.com/onlinearticles/mudra.html

[mak3]

Yeah i agree that REAL hand seals or gestures are used for focusing, like in wing chun forms or tai chi ect.

However in Naruto I'm pretty sure they must do perform hand seals for jutsu, otherwise the Thirds sacrifice was a waste.

[XForce]

Hand seals are a very important part in jutsu, because it is the body's way of releasing your stored jutsu in the way desired. This was explained during the Chuunin exam, during Rock Lee's fight by Sakura and Kakashi I believe, also on Episode 26 when they did they recap thingy.
The reason why they dont show the hand seals all the time is because it is a normal part of every jutsu, so it is just assumed they do it. Even a powerful ninja like Jiraiya still has do a large number of hand seals in order to bust one out (Ep 85, when he makes the surroundings the inside of a frog).


Sasuke when he first uses the Chidori against Gaara, he uses numerous hand seals. However when he fight itachi, he doesn't use any hand seals. Also kakashi doesn't use any hand seals when he does chidori.
A few episodes back, you see Sasuke practicing his Chidori in the forest, you see him do the hand seals for Chidori still. The animators just didn't show Sasuke do the seals for Chidori against Itachi because it would take away the atmosphere of the moment.

[Uchiha-Itachi]

The fight Kakashi vs. Itachi, did Itachi do the hand seal before he showed the shurikens or after, cuz after seems a little weird (show shurikens, handseals, show shurikens)

[Eurasian]

i agree with the ppl who say that the hand seals are needed for performing a jutsu. kishimoto doesn't have to show it. it's always the same hand seals, so if u seen it once u seen it all. or however that saying goes.

[ShinobiNeko]

yeah that's true, I guess they just don't take the time to show it, reminds me of anime with transformations..boring when you have to see it over and over again..so suppose maybe they didn't want to show it over and over again cause they will have someone else use it, or what not, i guess

[complich8]

I think even more than just being unnecessary to animate, the whole "show the hand-seals every time" thing would become a big animation stumbling block, and even a story stumbling block. This gets into a bigger point though.

What if Naruto is animated doing Bear instead of Boar at some point? Do you care? No. Does the story care? No. Does some anal retentive otaku who's bought into the whole universe and its system care? Definitely.

I think the point that I was going to harp on a bit more (but don't think I will, it's too muddy down those streams) is that as a fantasy adventure, Naruto doesn't need to specify out its entire universe. It could get away with it, sure. But I think it'd be a detractor from the storyline, because it'd require the universe to become bigger than the people in it.

Yeah, animating every seal would both break with manga style and break the narrative flow of the story. And every seal would have to be consistent in how it's made and what it does.

Any time you see someone powerful who doesn't look like they used seals, tell yourself "they're just too fast for me to see" or "I wasn't watching them the whole time" (whichever is more applicable). And just enjoy the story for what it is without trying to disassemble the universe so much.

Or you can distract yourself with the question "Is there God in Naruto?" and argue both sides.

[Goingin]

Originally posted by: complich8
Or you can distract yourself with the question "Is there God in Naruto?" and argue both sides.

We do know there's a death god i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

As already said (and i am in the mood to say it again), Naruto will become such a drag if u see the characters do the seals every time they're gonna perform a jutsu...
However, sometimes showing a seal can give someone's move more strength, like "oh yeah, there's the seal..., the other guy is sooooo going to die!" i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

A warming up for the move someone is making

[Enigmatic_Paragon]

As has been brought up, you need the hand seals to do jutsu (Otherwise orochimaru would still be able to do jutsu easily after losing his arms wouldnt he?). Choosing not to animate them is a descision to avoid boring repition of them.

Oh yeah, theres no one handed jutsu per se. Only Haku has that ability and he's dead. Everyone else (so far) has to use both hands for jutsu.

[Uchiha-Itachi]

with 1 hand seal performing you can do 2 jutsus at the same time, thats really good. i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[The Lord of Morning]

I think it makes total sense, dont show hand seals cause it takes up too much time and is a waste of effort for the anime.

one handed seals are possible, but i would think as in haku's case, they might have to be bloodline related.

can anyone see if the shark S rank ninja do any hand seals? (or even move his hands to indicate he was doing them?) i had the feeling that akatsuki was going to absorb kyubi in some way to let them get around the hand seals thing, but then as someoen pointed out orochi cant do it and doesnt know of any other way. seems if he was part of them, he would know of another way around it. I guess they just dont bother showing high level guys doing it.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: The Lord of Morning
I think it makes total sense, dont show hand seals cause it takes up too much time and is a waste of effort for the anime.

one handed seals are possible, but i would think as in haku's case, they might have to be bloodline related.

can anyone see if the shark S rank ninja do any hand seals? (or even move his hands to indicate he was doing them?) i had the feeling that akatsuki was going to absorb kyubi in some way to let them get around the hand seals thing, but then as someoen pointed out orochi cant do it and doesnt know of any other way. seems if he was part of them, he would know of another way around it. I guess they just dont bother showing high level guys doing it.

yes... they just don't showing high level guys doing it cuz it takes away from the atmosphere of the situation. the animators/creator purposely didn't show itachi doing hand seals for the "HE'S SO BAD ASS YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE HIM DO HIS HAND SEALS CUZ HE IS SO FAST"-effect. NOTHING ELSE, NOTHING MORE.

[Uchiha-Itachi]

Itachi doesnt need to do hand seals to perform jutsus IMO, cuz with the Itachi vs Kakashi fight Itachi pulls the shuriken then Kakashi performs the suiton (you see handseals) and Itachi counters with the same suiton, but he keeps those shurikens in his hand... proofing he doesnt have to use handseals to perform jutsus

my 2cc

[Assertn]

no the purpose of the shurikens in the first place were to draw kakashi's attention away from his other hand that was doing seals......(although i thought only haku's bloodline had one-handed jutsus)....but if he could perform jutsus without needing to make seals, then he wouldnt need to draw away kakashi's attention (which would also mean that he performed the jutsu AFTER drawing the shurikens, since whats the point if kakashi already saw it?)

[ShinobiNeko]

I also thought Haku was the only one who could to one hand jutsu's, but most likely they just didn't show it, like Assertn said, the shuriken was to distract..and probably didn't show it because they wanted to make it seem really fast that no one could see

[Uchiha-Itachi]

in other words he performed the suiton with hand seals (that kakashi was gonna perfom in the future) then showed the shurikens, then kakashi dodges back and performs the suiton..

So Itachi CAN look into the future? :S

And i dunno if he can 1 hand seals...

[ShinobiNeko]

@_@ all I know is that everything happened so fast

[Takenoko]

here is my interpretation of the Itachi vs Kakashi fight

First you need to realize that Itachi does not keep his arms in his sleeves. This is shown when Itachi reveals himself using his hand from the inside of the coat to open the front. He keeps his hands inside. The reason we did not see him performing hand seals when he attacked Kakashi is because he was doing it inside his coat. He whipped out the shurikens in his hand after performing the seals to fake Kakashi out. Kakashi would have been expecting a shuriken attack when actually the water jutsu was already performed.

There is only one person that has existed in the Naruto Universe they could perform Jutsus with one hand, that person being Haku. Even Kakashi said it was unheard of.

-take

[dafashizzle]

Yea, it think seals are formed to tell the body what to do with the charka. If your body has done a move tons of times it doesnt need seals to help it remember

[Mut]

jesus christ, you guys are overanalyzing this hand seal thing too much.

[orn210]

yup yup

[SofaKing]

This is why I say that thinking too much is often the same thing as not thinking enough.

[Uchiha-Itachi]

Yeh he could perform the hand seals in the coat, but that still means he had kakashi under his control that he "predict" the suiton (same thing when kakashi had zabuza under control)

i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif i guess thats the conclusion

[kupalmaru]

I think this is the answer to this handseal question. Hand seal is like an encantation(like on the harry potter movie). I never totally seen how the harry potter encantation work(what thus it do). This is the same thing that the magician are doing. You shoud ask a magician on the circus or somewhere what is the use of encantation or look at the dictionary gor the word "encantation"

Why do they used handseal not encantation?
It would be totaly crap if the character started saying"frog, dog, goat, grog pig"

Can we say that Naruto is a Harry Potter clone.

You know the concept:

Naruto = Harry
Sakura = The girl
Sasuke = The other kid

Oh my God they are group of three

Oh crap Harry need to compete with other kids i their class, like in Naruto.

Harry's parent sacrifice their life trying to battle the evil, The Fourth sacrifice his life trying to fight the evil(The Fourth is like some how related to Naruto).

Holly crap the evil that The Fourth and Harry Parent are coming back to hunt hunt them
Harry = the evil that his parent fought
Naruto = Naruto is some how in danger because people want the nine tail(it' s a twist)

Harry has the geratest potential to be the greatest sorcerer like Naruto( They have the potential because
Harry have his parents and Naruto has The Fourth).

I never seen the Harry Potter movie may you could correct me.

[kupalmaru]

I think this is the answer to this handseal question. Hand seal is like an encantation(like on the harry potter movie). I never totally seen how the harry potter encantation work(what thus it do). This is the same thing that the magician are doing. You shoud ask a magician on the circus or somewhere what is the use of encantation or look at the dictionary gor the word "encantation"

Why do they used handseal not encantation?
It would be totaly crap if the character started saying"frog, dog, goat, grog pig"

Can we say that Naruto is a Harry Potter clone.

You know the concept:

Naruto = Harry
Sakura = The girl
Sasuke = The other kid

Oh my God they are group of three

Oh crap Harry need to compete with other kids i their class, like in Naruto.

Harry's parent sacrifice their life trying to battle the evil, The Fourth sacrifice his life trying to fight the evil(The Fourth is like some how related to Naruto).

Holly crap the evil that The Fourth and Harry Parent are coming back to hunt hunt them
Harry = the evil that his parent fought
Naruto = Naruto is some how in danger because people want the nine tail(it' s a twist)

Harry has the geratest potential to be the greatest sorcerer like Naruto( They have the potential because
Harry have his parents and Naruto has The Fourth).

I never seen the Harry Potter movie may you could correct me.

[kupalmaru]

Sorry about the double post I never encounter the 15s somthing rule

[Uchiha-Itachi]

3 useless posts in a row dont spam the topic pls..

[kupalmaru]

I'm sorry i did not realize that my post was spaming. It double post becuase it say it can only handle 1 for every 15s that wahy i push the reply topic again. I never encounter that problem before this is only of my few post here.



IM REALLY SORRY ABOUT THE SPAMMING THAT IS NOT MY INTENTION

[ShinobiNeko]

hmm..I don't think Naruto is really ah harry potter clone...maybe there are just some similarites

[dragon]

Originally posted by: kupalmaru
I think this is the answer to this handseal question. Hand seal is like an encantation(like on the harry potter movie). I never totally seen how the harry potter encantation work(what thus it do). This is the same thing that the magician are doing. You shoud ask a magician on the circus or somewhere what is the use of encantation or look at the dictionary gor the word "encantation"

Why do they used handseal not encantation?
It would be totaly crap if the character started saying"frog, dog, goat, grog pig"

Can we say that Naruto is a Harry Potter clone.

You know the concept:

Naruto = Harry
Sakura = The girl
Sasuke = The other kid

Oh my God they are group of three

Oh crap Harry need to compete with other kids i their class, like in Naruto.

Harry's parent sacrifice their life trying to battle the evil, The Fourth sacrifice his life trying to fight the evil(The Fourth is like some how related to Naruto).

Holly crap the evil that The Fourth and Harry Parent are coming back to hunt hunt them
Harry = the evil that his parent fought
Naruto = Naruto is some how in danger because people want the nine tail(it' s a twist)

Harry has the geratest potential to be the greatest sorcerer like Naruto( They have the potential because
Harry have his parents and Naruto has The Fourth).

I never seen the Harry Potter movie may you could correct me.


wat were u smokin when u wrote that..geeezz..anyway dun spam plz

[miaka]

no.. itachi can't see the future.. it is already told with kakashi.. that sharingon users can't see the future.. however it might as seem as they do.. cause they can predict what your opponent would do.. kinda like kenshin(for ppl who watched rouni kenshin) how hiten mitsurugi ables ken to predict what attack his opponent woudl use on him

[orn210]

agree, he doesnt see the future just something else

[miaka]

yeah.. but sharingan still is defnitely useful in battle...