Trick to Counter the Sharingan? [Archive]

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
of course all signs point to yes mutata, other than speed we have NO evidence at what itachi is capable of whatsoever, so all signs point to the fact he will be a slightly, perhaps even considerably stronger/faster/smarter version of kakashi with his special technique. if you take the special tech away your left with............ a stronger/faster/smarter version of kakashi who shares the same weakness (apart form lack of stamina it would seem). there fore it stand to reaoson if you have somone who made an equal ratio with itachi as gai and kakashi do then the taijitsu would win. either that or your saying itachi is invincible.

by that i mean its obvious that genjitsu will not work on a sharingan user at all. they can see right through it. as itachi said it would have to be VERY high level in order to work (did he say that in the AA version as well tho?), and its clear from his speed and the obvious ability of sharingan that he could at least keep up with any jujitsu users.

rofl, thanks for proving my point chambers. the whole time, that's exactly what i was saying. itachi is a considerably stronger, faster, smarter (maybe not, i think kakashi is a smarter genius) version of kakashi. gai's method works ONLY on kakashi... that's why they are considered eternal rivals. if you still don't understand, plz refer to my shield, bow&arrow, and gun example in my previous post. and what weakness are you talking about? last time we looked, itachi has no weaknesses (besides him using his mangekyou sharingan too much). if you're talking about taijutsu being a bad match up for sharingan users, then you are way off since it's only a bad match up IF the sharingan user isn't fast enough. and there haven't been any sign that itachi is slow.

btw, i'm not saying that itachi is invincible (i believe that sasuke will whoop him in the future).

kilzo

Sun, 05-23-2004, 02:19 PM

Just shutup chambers..

Fifemoo

Sun, 05-23-2004, 02:28 PM

Mut@t@ is like an evil sarutobi, so i always like it when someone stands up against him. Also you say your site covers most of the debated stuff but it seemed lacking. good otherwise tho i hate to say, T_T.

Anyways on the matter, Itachi says not to underestimate Gai, but i think the real reason he left was cause he used that Sharingan move on kakashi which tired him a bit and since Gai plus many Anbu were suppose to be arriving, it'd be stupid to continue fighting no matter who you are.

In conclusion Itachi would own Gai, but not as easily as he pwned kakashi. I suspect.

Oh yeah, don't yell at people or hate them when debating, it's poor taste. (Kilzo!) ...Am i a hypocrit?

chambers

Sun, 05-23-2004, 02:36 PM

kilzo why dont you stfu? iam RIGHT. every single instance in the manga points to sharingan being weak to taijitsu, to the point when gai even knows a trik to counter it. now sure maybe gai is not at any kind of level to put this idea into practice against itachi, but it works against kakshi. now listen to me before you whine like a bitch and say "but itachi is stronger by miles". well so what who gives a flying fuck. his main improvement is his mangekyou sharingan, which would be TOTALLY nulled through the use of gai's trick. so like i said with that out the way we are left wiht a possibly stronger/faster version of kakshi, so it stands to reason that a stronger/faster version of gai would beat him.

if you want to answer back fine but try to at least use logic when you do so instead of repeating gai's method ONLY works on kakshi FUCKING PROVE IT. with a single reference form the anime. tell me one single thing that points to it not working on someone that fights using the EXACT same special ability only advanced more. does itachis sharingan allow him to blind gai when gai looks at his feet? havent seen that one yet. does it allow him to glue him to the floor? hey guess what i aint seen that one either yet.

FACE IT. it works, gai may not be strong enough to put it to the test but the THEORY IS 100% SOUND.

ricefarmer

Sun, 05-23-2004, 02:39 PM

i do not understand why would gai need to use his special technique (looking at feet) to fight kakashi when kakashi doesn't even have the mangekyou sharingan???? maybe just for practice to beat itachi i dont know.. unless kakashi has some level of the mangekyou but not as strong as itachi there fore gai tries to avoid it when he spares with kakashi?? maybe some one can elaborate on this

Fifemoo

Sun, 05-23-2004, 02:39 PM

Here's how itachi wins: Genjitsus into a giant sharingan eye with no feet.

chambers

Sun, 05-23-2004, 02:41 PM

yeah mutata site looks the part, lacking in substance like, but it looks sweet, i wish i could make sites like that.

kilzo

Sun, 05-23-2004, 02:43 PM

ugh someone just lock this, i dont this place to be somewhere for little kids to come and complain.

Edit: In response to your comment chambers... your making alot of assumptions, i for one dont like itachi. as for the othe comments, its a theory, dont go and try to force it in everyone elses head that its a fact.

chambers

Sun, 05-23-2004, 02:47 PM

whatever.

muppet.

Gods_Son

Sun, 05-23-2004, 03:05 PM

Gai thinks he understands Sharingan by facing off against Kakashi, however Itachi's Sharingan is far greater. In fact Itachi's is probably better than any Sharingan Gai has faced (Itachi was able to kill everyone else in the Uchiha with a Sharingan). Chambers, stop acting like a stupid child.

chambers

Sun, 05-23-2004, 03:08 PM

please explain to me how itachis sharingan is better if you discount the mangekyou sharingan. and by better i dont mean an improvement in stamina or speed i mean an ability that will negate gais stratagey.

go for it. also iam older than you and iam acting it, just beacuse a few iditos on this board state things doesnt make them true.

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 03:30 PM

I just have to agree to what chambers have said.. itachi's better with sharingan now in anime is becoz he can use mangekyou and he can counter it coz he've the bloodlimits. think it this way, it's like hypnotise someone ? if u ain't lookin in the eyes.. then how is the sharingan user goin to do that to you ? just like ur back facing him. it doesn't make sense that u'll get hypnotise or what so ever with mangekyou when ur back is facin him right ? Gai battle with kakashi and yes he've not met anyone with mangekyou.. but do you remember gai said that he've already know about this jutsu ? don't forget the fact that there's Uchiha in the past too.. I'm sure that somehow others will know there's mangekyou.. Like kakashi.. he knew it.. also.. we can say that gai is another best friend of kakashi ? coz they'll share the secrets..

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 03:50 PM

OT: i'll explain about my site. i am sorry that i can't pleas all you guys and have EVERYTHING updated and there are a lot of things i ignore because i think putting in stuff like "is haku a girl?" is stupid. also, it's not even for the anime readers in the first place. it was specifically for the manga readers, but i fixed it up so anime newbs won't be spoiled. anyway, i don't spend my whole time working on it each day and it probably won't be updated (big updates) for several weeks since i have finals coming up soon.

ok, back on topic. how do you not understand that itachi's sharingan is better than kakashi's? (NOTE: everytime i say itachi's sharingan is better, i'm ignoring mangekyou sharingan) kakashi's sharingan cannot be used to it's full potential and that is ignoring mangekyou sharingan. since kakashi isn't a full blooded uchiha, he cannot use it as long and as accurately as itachi can. that alone should just tell you that kakashi can't use it to read and copy jutsus as well as itachi can. did you not notice how kakashi admited that his sharingan was barely keeping up with itachi while itachi had no problem? also, remember that kakashi said that he can't use the sharingan perfectly and this was before even the idea of mangekyou sharingan was introduced. yes, reading and copying jutsus have no relevance to what we're talking about right now, but it's a solid evidence to explain that itachi's sharingan is more advanced.

and stop bringing this up: 'gai can beat kakashi with his method.' if gai can beat him with such method, why are they considered eternal rivals? what is the point of being eternal rivals when it's so one sided? and why don't you prove that it works on itachi as well? can you? no. all you're doing it trying to apply a method to a higher degree of a situation to support your theory. it's actually a huge jump from applying it to kakashi's and then applying to itachi's considering kakashi isn't even an uchiha.

sorry to break it to you but, your theory is not 100% sound. and if you're gonna post "whatever, muppet" don't bother posting at all. that's spamming.

EDIT: and let's think about this. what if eye contact isn't even needed for mangekyou sharingan? what if the eyes just have to be opened? maybe that's why kakashi told asuma and kurenai to close them instead of just saying 'don't look at itachi's eyes.' isn't the latter a safer option than having both of your eyes closed rendering you basically completely useless? i think this is the main reason why you need to be a uchiha to defeat another uchiha. since genjutsu effects your five senses (sight, touch, taste, smell and sound), you could be looking down and itachi could turn the world into something crazy by altering your senses. that's what tsukuyomi does. it made kakashi feel like it was three days long (or however long it was) and kakashi felt the actual pain.

Sun, 05-23-2004, 03:51 PM

well looks like chambers is increasing his lead for idiot of the year. chambers is wrong, mut@t@ is right. what works against kakashi's ghetto ass sharingan doesnt mean will work against itachi, who is the strongest sharingan user we've seen. itachi also has the uchiha body, meaning he can use the sharingan way longer than kakashi can. gai's strategy would not work against itachi, since his sharingan would anticipate gai's movements. and how do we know sharingan is weak against taijutsu? im guessing you got this idea from the lee vs sasuke fight, well sasuke's sharingan is not even developed yet, plus lee was way ahead of sasuke at that time.

Assertn

Sun, 05-23-2004, 03:56 PM

let us not forget that in a match between the two sharingan users, itachi was wiping the floor with kakashi.....do you think itachi NEEDED to use the mangekyou sharingan to beat kakashi?....personally it seemed to me like he was doing fine even before using it, and if you cant accredit that to him having a better sharingan, then what CAN you accredit it to?

Death BOO Z

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:01 PM

Mut@t@, i have to disagree with you about this one...
Gai practised his 'look on the feet' techinuque on Kakashi, to avoid possible hypnotizem from the sharingan (Zabuza did the same, with the mist and the closed eyes), and since Itachi's eye is no diffrent that Kakashi's eye, i'm quite sure that Gai won't get mangakyou-ed...

Note: when i say that thier eyes aren't diffrent, i mean that Itachi can't relocate his eye to his feet, and doesn't have a tremndously HUGE eyeball, which you have to look at...

more than that, you say that it's immpossible to fight with someone while focusing on the feet alone, but Gai has done it against Kakashi's, and even though Itachi might be faster than Kakashi (might, i'm not sure wheather it was said exactly or not), then so is Gai, and from the fact that he continued to battle Kakashi, we know that even while focusing on one's lower part, Gai can still keep fighting at least at Kakashi's speed...

If Itachi was to stay there, he would probably be killed by the mass amount of ANBU's coming, even though Itachi is tough, he can't fight against the whole world and win... i'm positive that if you face him against any pair of the 'elite' charecters (hokages, Sannin, Kakashi, Gai, Kabuto and perhaps Anko) Itachi will get his ass tossed around...
but that isn't relevent for the disscussion, so forget about it...

anyway, Gai's way of fighting Sharingan users is effective, at least on the immidiate target, Gai won't be a subject to the Mangakyou sharingan, the battle (which would probably end with Itachi as the winner) will be a 'normal' battle of Ninjutu and Taijutsu..

Benjamin, third degree researcher in the field of 'doing nothing at school all day'...

IamSpazzy

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:06 PM

Actually I think that Gai can probably negate all of Itachi's sharingan powers by simply not looking him in the eye. the best analogy that I can come up with is when odysseus got his men to plug up their eyes to prevent the sirens from luring them to the rocks. by not looking into the eye of a sharingan user, there's nothing he can do with it i.e. no matter how well the sirens sing, if you're deaf, it won't affect you.

but...that being said, I think that gai would still lose to itachi only because itachi is probably much faster than gai, can predict gai's moves with sharingan (though not affect gai directly), and probably has a ton of jitsus that he can throw gai's way. it would be akin to asking if gai could beat any of the sanin's. the sanin's, the kages, and itachi could all beat gai handedly with the raw power in terms of amount of chakra, experience, speed, and number of jitsus that they have.

Itachi's primary advantage me thinks is not his sharingan, but the fact that he can whip off jitsus without using hand seals (it seemed that way after the last episode). I don't think that the sharingan is the most powerful bloodline ability in the naruto world.

Assertn

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:07 PM

But Death BOO Z, you can't argue that the rivalry between gai and kakashi is on nearly equal grounds.....and this is even considering that gai knows tricks to counter the sharingan

If gai had a solid lead over kakashi, then that would be one thing.....but if his eternal rival is someone who is clearly lower than itachi in the way that gives them their fighting advantage (i.e. the sharingan).....then to have a chance against itachi is very unlikely

in other words, if gai = kakashi, and itachi > kakashi, then itachi > gai

EDIT: and to add to IamSpazzy's post.......yes, even if the sharingan cant hypnotize gai, it can still give itachi the edge of being able to see gai's movement....AND itachi prolly knows lots of jutsus that he could perform in an instant, thus he wouldnt even need the sharingan to fight gai

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:09 PM

not forgetin fish head was at the scene too.. don't you think that fish head have his eyes opened too ?
yeah.. Itachi can copy and read images faster and better than kakashi.. but Gai is a taijutsu user.. thinkin that rock lee can attain that speed.. imagine how fast will gai move at ?

it's just a verbal discription between the relationship between both of them by usin "eternal rivals". it doesn't mean that Gai can't defeat itachi ? anyway.. kakashi is more likely to beat Gai IMO coz he've battle with Gai countless times ? of coz you'll know your opponent's strong and weak pt.

yes. i did judge from the part where sasuke was wacked by rock lee.. but do you remember that rock lee said that it's pointless if your eyes can catch up but your body can't ? and remember how a uchiha got wack so hard that he can't even have a chance to retaliate ?

anyway. i'm Itachi's fan as well.. but putting these into consideration.. don't you think that it makes more sense ?

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
Mut@t@, i have to disagree with you about this one...
Gai practised his 'look on the feet' techinuque on Kakashi, to avoid possible hypnotizem from the sharingan (Zabuza did the same, with the mist and the closed eyes), and since Itachi's eye is no diffrent that Kakashi's eye, i'm quite sure that Gai won't get mangakyou-ed...

Note: when i say that thier eyes aren't diffrent, i mean that Itachi can't relocate his eye to his feet, and doesn't have a tremndously HUGE eyeball, which you have to look at...

more than that, you say that it's immpossible to fight with someone while focusing on the feet alone, but Gai has done it against Kakashi's, and even though Itachi might be faster than Kakashi (might, i'm not sure wheather it was said exactly or not), then so is Gai, and from the fact that he continued to battle Kakashi, we know that even while focusing on one's lower part, Gai can still keep fighting at least at Kakashi's speed...

i'm not talking about being hypnotized by sharingan and i've been excluding mangekyou sharingan the whole time. 'looking at the feet' method doesn't even sound right. the whole point of that method is to not get mangekyou'd, i assume. that's fine but how is that going to help against a sharingan user besides not being hit by tsukuyomi? that actually puts you at a disadvantage since all you can do is focus on their feet (or lower body) and 'predict' their movements. ...what? predicting movements? isn't that the sharingan is for??? if you use that method, you eliminate mangekyou sharingan, but you suffer the greater sacrifice because you have to guess that the opponent is gonna do next while the opponent can still fight prefectly fine.

and i'm not saying that it's impossible to fight someone while focusing on their feet.

Jessper

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:13 PM

Chambers your assuming that the sharingan has to make eye contact to do anything at all, it can still follow movements better than a normal eye. From the one time we have seen itachi fight it seems he is beyond fast compared to kakshi so it is really a null point.

On the flip side, Chambers you have no proof that it does work as we havn't seen them put it to the test maybe 2 sharingan's rather than kakshi's one eliminates the need to make eye contact? We really have no clue from the anime and this is a fiction so no matter what makes sense and should prove to be a sound theory may end up not working as it is the wrighter's world with their laws controling the world not ours.

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: Death BOO Z
Mut@t@, i have to disagree with you about this one...
Gai practised his 'look on the feet' techinuque on Kakashi, to avoid possible hypnotizem from the sharingan (Zabuza did the same, with the mist and the closed eyes), and since Itachi's eye is no diffrent that Kakashi's eye, i'm quite sure that Gai won't get mangakyou-ed...

Note: when i say that thier eyes aren't diffrent, i mean that Itachi can't relocate his eye to his feet, and doesn't have a tremndously HUGE eyeball, which you have to look at...

more than that, you say that it's immpossible to fight with someone while focusing on the feet alone, but Gai has done it against Kakashi's, and even though Itachi might be faster than Kakashi (might, i'm not sure wheather it was said exactly or not), then so is Gai, and from the fact that he continued to battle Kakashi, we know that even while focusing on one's lower part, Gai can still keep fighting at least at Kakashi's speed...

i'm not talking about being hypnotized by sharingan and i've been excluding mangekyou sharingan the whole time. 'looking at the feet' method doesn't even sound right. the whole point of that method is to not get mangekyou'd, i assume. that's fine but how is that going to help against a sharingan user besides not being hit by tsukuyomi? that actually puts you at a disadvantage since all you can do is focus on their feet (or lower body) and 'predict' their movements. ...what? predicting movements? isn't that the sharingan is for??? if you use that method, you eliminate mangekyou sharingan, but you suffer the greater sacrifice because you have to guess that the opponent is gonna do next while the opponent can still fight prefectly fine.

and i'm not saying that it's impossible to fight someone while focusing on their feet.

don't you see that line that Gai said he've fought with kakashi before and also the sharingan ?
can't he practice before hand ? like i said.. if kakashi knows there's mangekyou.. why can't Gai?

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by: Jessper
Chambers your assuming that the sharingan has to make eye contact to do anything at all, it can still follow movements better than a normal eye. From the one time we have seen itachi fight it seems he is beyond fast compared to kakshi so it is really a null point.

On the flip side, Chambers you have no proof that it does work as we havn't seen them put it to the test maybe 2 sharingan's rather than kakshi's one eliminates the need to make eye contact? We really have no clue from the anime and this is a fiction so no matter what makes sense and should prove to be a sound theory may end up not working as it is the wrighter's world with their laws controling the world not ours.

well.. if you're talkin bout this.. then can you explain how rock lee prevent himself from bangin into walls when he's fighting with gaara at that amazing speed ? don't forget all the other jounins are astonish with his speed and they also said they can't keep up with his movement.

Assertn

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:20 PM

only the genins said they couldnt keep up with his movement, besides....we KNOW that the sharingan lets you follow movements better because that is how sasuke managed to dodge haku's ice mirror attacks

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
don't you see that line that Gai said he've fought with kakashi before and also the sharingan ?
can't he practice before hand ? like i said.. if kakashi knows there's mangekyou.. why can't Gai?

...? i dunno what you're trying to prove.

ok, listen. after gai or a non-uchiha who is on itachi's level and uses gai's method fights itachi...let's call this man fighter A. ok, well, let's see. itachi still can use the sharingan (not mangekyou sharingan) to read, copy, and defeat all jutsus fighter A can perform while figher A can only look at itachi's feet and try to guess what itachi's next move is. who do you think will win? the guy who is fighting without any disadvantages or the guy who is constantly looking at the feet.

it's like, you guys think that gai's method totally negates the sharingan, making it absolutely useless. all it does is save your ass from being mangekyou'd. and why do you guys keep ignoring the fact that itachi said only uchihas can beat another uchiha? it's not like he said it for no reason.

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:24 PM

so you mean that jounins have better eyes ?
how bout hokage ? they've about the same eyes as sharingan ?

If Gai have to fight itachi.. he won't be that dumb to only stay there and monitor Itachi's leg... but with his high speed movement.. don't you think itachi will have trouble dodgin attacks ??

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:24 PM

chambers

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:25 PM

ok here goes at last a thought out reply. thought but full of holes iam sorry to say.

ok so ill give you that obvioulsy itachi can use normal shringan for a hell of a lot longer than kakashi (only assumed but pretty much taken for granted). you seem to have accepted that mangekyou sharingan will nt be a part baring an incredible lapse of concentration on the part of whomever fights him (or the lack of knowledged would so it of course). so other than stamina what advatages do you know FOR A FACT from the anime that being from the uchiha clan actually gives you? lets say for example (and iam being generous because its never implyed) that it does confer on the user some insane speed when performing jinjutsu. so what? i hardley think the speed of creating seals matters to someone who doesnt even use it in battle at all. therefore someone using gais style clearly is at no loss if we put him at the same ratio of power that is apparent in gai v kakashi. i say it doesnt matter because obviously gai has some skill in countering or evading the techniques and its the speed of the technique itself that will ultimatley be the decider not the quater of a second less it takes to form the seals.
.
ok so i think that sums that up. stamina is th eonly issue here. itachi has it kakashi doesnt. gai CLEARLY has it as he is a physical type person. so while its certainly less of an issue than you make it out to be its still a *slight* issue.

S-K i dont care what you say. the lee V sasuke fight is a PERFECT example of what to expect (of course not as one sided but still). we can see it STATED that its all fine and dandy if you can see it coming but if you cannt physically bring your had to there leg then they will kick you. you see how shocked sasuke is at lees NATURAL movement, and yes i relise that there is a VERY high chance that itachi has fought somone close to or even matching gais speed so again that point is belittled somwhat. so then you say sasuke isnt fully developed eh? well neither is lee. its clearly a comparable situation they are both weak, both at the same level same as gai and kakashi, same as who ever would fight itachi with gai's style. do you think that neji vs lee wouldnt be an accurate foreshadowing of the head of the clan vs gai?

and mutata unless your going to adress other people who insult me (to whom i was replying BTW) i suggest you keep your opinion to yourself. the guy who posted before me was spamming and i didnt want to ignore him as thats what i did initial to all these idiots and people like S-K appeared who think they can argue with everything i say and insult me for no reason without me replying. aint happenin.

EDIT: people have posted b4 this one got there so ill add something. mutat it means nothing that he said only another uchiha can beat him, people say stuff all the time sthat is just plain BS. its just trash talk. @ kyuubi i think that the answer it YES. if in the world of naruto we know of two clans already that have power located in the eye, than can be improved with training, then we can only assume that normall eyes can be trained in the same way (although obvioulsy with less spectacular results), after all the eye is moved by a muscle and like any muscle you can train it.

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
don't you see that line that Gai said he've fought with kakashi before and also the sharingan ?
can't he practice before hand ? like i said.. if kakashi knows there's mangekyou.. why can't Gai?

...? i dunno what you're trying to prove.

ok, listen. after gai or a non-uchiha who is on itachi's level and uses gai's method fights itachi...let's call this man fighter A. ok, well, let's see. itachi still can use the sharingan (not mangekyou sharingan) to read, copy, and defeat all jutsus fighter A can perform while figher A can only look at itachi's feet and try to guess what itachi's next move is. who do you think will win? the guy who is fighting without any disadvantages or the guy who is constantly looking at the feet.

it's like, you guys think that gai's method totally negates the sharingan, making it absolutely useless. all it does is save your ass from being mangekyou'd. and why do you guys keep ignoring the fact that itachi said only uchihas can beat another uchiha? it's not like he said it for no reason.

I would say that if i'm Gai.. i won't be dumb to keep my eyes all the while on his legs.. and yes its dumb..
If gai can monitor itachi's movement by lookin at his legs.. then he could possibly get behind itachi and have the chance to get the vision of the whole itachi..

like i said.. gai have trained fighting kakashi with lookin at his legs only.. i doubt kakashi have a slower speed than itachi.. just that his sharingan are slower..

Gaara said he've ultimate defense.. but was penetrate by chidori too..

chambers

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:34 PM

ALSO please remeber iam NOT saying gai can beat itachi, i think his level is far too low. but if there was somone who used the exact same fighting style as gai but was stronger then yes i think he coudl beat him.

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
so you mean that jounins have better eyes ?
how bout hokage ? they've about the same eyes as sharingan ?

If Gai have to fight itachi.. he won't be that dumb to only stay there and monitor Itachi's leg... but with his high speed movement.. don't you think itachi will have trouble dodgin attacks ??

ugh... do you seriously not understand what he means by that? he means that jounins are able to read movements better and more accurately than genins can because jounins are more skilled and experienced.

Originally posted by: chambers
ok here goes at last a thought out reply. thought but full of holes iam sorry to say.

ok so ill give you that obvioulsy itachi can use normal shringan for a hell of a lot longer than kakashi (only assumed but pretty much taken for granted). you seem to have accepted that mangekyou sharingan will nt be a part baring an incredible lapse of concentration on the part of whomever fights him (or the lack of knowledged would so it of course). so other than stamina what advatages do you know FOR A FACT from the anime that being from the uchiha clan actually gives you? lets say for example (and iam being generous because its never implyed) that it does confer on the user some insane speed when performing jinjutsu. so what? i hardley think the speed of creating seals matters to someone who doesnt even use it in battle at all. therefore someone using gais style clearly is at no loss if we put him at the same ratio of power that is apparent in gai v kakashi. i say it doesnt matter because obviously gai has some skill in countering or evading the techniques and its the speed of the technique itself that will ultimatley be the decider not the quater of a second less it takes to form the seals.
.
ok so i think that sums that up. stamina is th eonly issue here. itachi has it kakashi doesnt. gai CLEARLY has it as he is a physical type person. so while its certainly less of an issue than you make it out to be its still a *slight* issue.

S-K i dont care what you say. the lee V sasuke fight is a PERFECT example of what to expect (of course not as one sided but still). we can see it STATED that its all fine and dandy if you can see it coming but if you cannt physically bring your had to there leg then they will kick you. you see how shocked sasuke is at lees NATURAL movement, and yes i relise that there is a VERY high chance that itachi has fought somone close to or even matching gais speed so again that point is belittled somwhat. so then you say sasuke isnt fully developed eh? well neither is lee. its clearly a comparable situation they are both weak, both at the same level same as gai and kakashi, same as who ever would fight itachi with gai's style. do you think that neji vs lee wouldnt be an accurate foreshadowing of the head of the clan vs gai?

and mutata unless your going to adress other people who insult me (to whom i was replying BTW) i suggest you keep your opinion to yourself. the guy who posted before me was spamming and i didnt want to ignore him as thats what i did initial to all these idiots and people like S-K appeared who think they can argue with everything i say and insult me for no reason without me replying. aint happenin.

you bring up making fast seals and the speed of a taijutsu user. think about this. which do you think is faster? moving hands and fingers or moving your whole body? fighting against a taijutsu user, it gives itachi more time to read and react to the opponents' movements compared to reading and reacting to simple and quick hand seals.

and just in case you didn't read this, tell me what you think about this scenario in my post:

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
ok, listen. after gai or a non-uchiha who is on itachi's level and uses gai's method fights itachi...let's call this man fighter A. ok, well, let's see. itachi still can use the sharingan (not mangekyou sharingan) to read, copy, and defeat all jutsus fighter A can perform while figher A can only look at itachi's feet and try to guess what itachi's next move is. who do you think will win? the guy who is fighting without any disadvantages or the guy who is constantly looking at the feet.

it's like, you guys think that gai's method totally negates the sharingan, making it absolutely useless. all it does is save your ass from being mangekyou'd. and why do you guys keep ignoring the fact that itachi said only uchihas can beat another uchiha? it's not like he said it for no reason.

and as for addressing people. i don't care if someone insults you or you insult them. just don't put up a post with two meaningless, irrelevant words cuz that's spamming.

Originally posted by: chambers
EDIT: people have posted b4 this one got there so ill add something. mutat it means nothing that he said only another uchiha can beat him, people say stuff all the time sthat is just plain BS. its just trash talk.

LOL wow, man... you are just incredible.

EDIT: response to below:
you still don't get it do you, moron? posting stupid crap like what you wrote underneath is considered spam. i'm just waiting for a mod to tell you that you're an idiot. may not happen but whatevers.

chambers

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:36 PM

but five or six is ok right?

EDIT: ok ill refere you back to my point that mnay boxer fight by looking ta the feat. if you do anything with any force whatsoever your feet show it, they show which way you are about to run, they show which hand will throw the next punch. also we havent seen a sinlge example of a silent technique (AFAIK apart form itachis) therefore as soon asits performed gai knows what it is.

also your fogetting the fact hat gai has obvioulsy trained with this method, therefore it will probly prove to be a LOT less of a handicap as you would imagein

EDIT again: no i do get it. i get it completely. but why on earth do you feel the need to single me out for such things when clearly just a msg or two before someone did it also. beacuse? iam arguing with you.

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:45 PM

anyway.. gai is not goin to use just his eyes lookin at itachi's feet.. he can use his other senses like ears to hear where is itachi really goin.. if he ain't sure which kind of minor movement of itachi's feet will show what movement itachi'll make.. then i've no idea who will..

Assertn

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:47 PM

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
but five or six is ok right?

EDIT: ok ill refere you back to my point that mnay boxer fight by looking ta the feat. if you do anything with any force whatsoever your feet show it, they show which way you are about to run, they show which hand will throw the next punch. also we havent seen a sinlge example of a silent technique (AFAIK apart form itachis) therefore as soon asits performed gai knows what it is.

also your fogetting the fact hat gai has obvioulsy trained with this method, therefore it will probly prove to be a LOT less of a handicap as you would imagein

EDIT again: no i do get it. i get it completely. but why on earth do you feel the need to single me out for such things when clearly just a msg or two before someone did it also. beacuse? iam arguing with you.

nice job applying real life to an anime. it'll definitely support your theory. <--- sarcasm.

and i'm not forgetting anything. gai looking at kakashi's feet isn't gonna make him a winner, it's just gonna possibly negate genjutsus performed by sharingan. and it's not like kakashi is gonna use the sharingan every second... he'll lose if does so. and you say A LOT less of a handicap... well, it's still a handicap, no? no matter what, gai's method ultimately puts you at a disadvantage.

and listen, i pointed you out because there are only TWO things i look for when i'm arguing/discussing on the forums in situations like this: any reference to my name and any reply by the people i'm arguing with. so i ignore majority of the posts in the thread. and don't tell me i'm missing out on whatever... i haven't missed out anything yet.

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
Yah assertnfailure, I agree with the way you explain yourself with the eyes thing.. but don't forget the fact that if Gai is to battle Itachi.. there won't be much jutsus for Itachi to copy.. and of coz.. you can copy hand seals better than other physical movements coz you're more familiar with it...

that also explains that there sharingan won't be as good as you see from copyin other's movement like what it did from copyin jutsus..

you're making it sound as if taijutsu is not a jutsu. remember how easily sasuke's crap sharingan copied lee's moves?

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
you said anime. so why can't Gai defeat Itachi ? since it's anime then everything can don't make any sense. it'll be what the creator wants it to be.

well, if you're gonna go that far with it, then what's the point of discussing? i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
and don't multipost. use the edit button, kthx.

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:55 PM

Yah assertnfailure, I agree with the way you explain yourself with the eyes thing.. but don't forget the fact that if Gai is to battle Itachi.. there won't be much jutsus for Itachi to copy.. and of coz.. you can copy hand seals better than other physical movements coz you're more familiar with it...

that also explains that there sharingan won't be as good as you see from copyin other's movement like what it did from copyin jutsus..

kyuubi_

Sun, 05-23-2004, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

nice job applying real life to an anime. it'll definitely support your theory. <--- sarcasm.

you said anime. so why can't Gai defeat Itachi ? since it's anime then everything can don't make any sense. it'll be what the creator wants it to be.

chambers

Sun, 05-23-2004, 05:21 PM

you jusyt nullified every possible discussion EVER.

Assertn

Sun, 05-23-2004, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
Yah assertnfailure, I agree with the way you explain yourself with the eyes thing.. but don't forget the fact that if Gai is to battle Itachi.. there won't be much jutsus for Itachi to copy.. and of coz.. you can copy hand seals better than other physical movements coz you're more familiar with it...

that also explains that there sharingan won't be as good as you see from copyin other's movement like what it did from copyin jutsus..

i was referring to the fact that itachi prolly copied tons of jutsus from other ninjas he has encountered....sharingan users can remember jutsus that they copy, i'm sure itachi knows plenty to use against gai without having to steal any of gai's

Kumiriko

Sun, 05-23-2004, 05:57 PM

Well. I skipped a cuple of pages. But man. Dosnt the Sharigan Take eye contact to work? Sure he has all the skills he copied. but yah. if you dont make eye contact it dose nothing

Assertn

Sun, 05-23-2004, 05:58 PM

eye contact is only necessary for hypnosis and mangekyou

rdkenshin

Sun, 05-23-2004, 06:02 PM

[i]Originally posted by: Mut@t@it's like saying, 'oh, a wooden shield can protect you from a bow and arrow so therefore it'll do the same against a machine gun.'

But the bullets will never hit if the f***er cant aim the gun. From what Ive seen you have to make eye contact with him. So I would say looking at the feet would work.

Sun, 05-23-2004, 06:06 PM

jeesh...the eye contact is only neccesary for the genjutsu techniques, the sharingan can still anticipate movements without having to look into the eyes of the opponent.

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 06:35 PM

gai's method is ineffective. it ultimately puts you at a disadvantage even if you are at the same level, in terms of fighting skills, as the sharingan user .

Shin_Naruto

Sun, 05-23-2004, 07:56 PM

We didnt see Gai's method. Without seeing it in action it is impossible to tell if it would ultimatly put him at a disadvantage or not. Saying anything is for certain is just ignorance.

What we did see was Itachi respect Gai' fighting ability, telling Kisame not to underestimate him. Gai also didn't show any fear standing infront of Itachi which is either due to extreme stupidity (Mutata' will go with this one) or a belief he could fight him. None of this means Gai could stand a chance vs Itachi though.

I for one think Gai couldn't defeat Itachi. Gai never shows any sign of him believing he could win, just that he could fight him till reinforcements could appear.

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by: Shin_Naruto
We didnt see Gai's method. Without seeing it in action it is impossible to tell if it would ultimatly put him at a disadvantage or not. Saying anything is for certain is just ignorance.

What we did see was Itachi respect Gai' fighting ability, telling Kisame not to underestimate him. Gai also didn't show any fear standing infront of Itachi which is either due to extreme stupidity (Mutata' will go with this one) or a belief he could fight him. None of this means Gai could stand a chance vs Itachi though.

I for one think Gai couldn't defeat Itachi. Gai never shows any sign of him believing he could win, just that he could fight him till reinforcements could appear.

what the hell are you talking about, don't act like you know me. gai stood there wanting to fight them because not only did he know that more people were coming, gai isn't a pussy.

Sun, 05-23-2004, 08:47 PM

Holy shit. I can't believe this is even a debate.

In order for the Sharingan to work, the user has to make eye contact. Itachi cannot harm someone, even with the Mange Sharingan, who is not looking into his eyes. If Gai-sensei can fight effectively without looking at Itachi's eyes, then he cannot be harmed by the Sharingan's genjutsu, predictive abilities, etc.

If Itachi's Sharingan was a bazillion times more powerful than Kakashi's, and it amplified every copied technique's power 100,000-fold, it wouldn't matter because Gai knows not to look into his eyes and get raped by Itachi's Sharingan.

Kumiriko

Sun, 05-23-2004, 08:52 PM

This started off a Resonable Debate but this is more like a Flame war. who ever Argues the longest wins.

kaigan

Sun, 05-23-2004, 09:02 PM

shad up kumiriko, i say keep the flame war going. I like reading these types of topics. it makes me laugh

FLAME WAR........GO!!!!

Legendary Nin

Sun, 05-23-2004, 09:15 PM

Let me put this into perspective for you all.

Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru
Kakashi is scared shitless of Orochimaru and admits he'd be easily killed by him
Kakashi and Gai are at the same level

Therefore,Itachi could wipe the floor with Gai.Some of you act like all Itachi has is his sharingan,he was a fucking ANBU captain,not a ramen bitch.Of course he is well-rounded in all areas;taijutsu included.Why do you think Asuma and Kurenaii couldn't keeo up with him.They could follow Lee when he started opening gates,but they couldn't follow Itachi,starting to make sense now?

Shin_Naruto

Sun, 05-23-2004, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
what the hell are you talking about, don't act like you know me.
Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

gai stood there wanting to fight them because not only did he know that more people were coming, gai isn't a pussy.
Is English your first language?

EDIT: vvvvv http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/thumbsup.gif vvvv Perfectly!? For a 3rd grader maybe. http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/cool.gif

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 09:47 PM

this is what i meant to say: gai stood there wanting to fight them because not only did he know that more people were coming, he wasn't gonna back down. gai isn't a pussy.

my thoughts were cluttered.

but nice attempt at trying to get me for my mistakes by asking me if english is my first language even though i've been speaking it perfectly the whole time, moron.

wirm

Sun, 05-23-2004, 09:57 PM

I'll agree with Y The Alien that this seems an odd thing to have a long debate about.

First off, I don't read the manga, so I have no problem with being proven wrong. But here's my opinion.

The hypnosis doesn't work on people who aren't looking at the sharingan user's eyes. Looking at the person's feet would protect you from the hypnosis, but you'd probably get jacked by something else.

The sharingan does give the user a tremendous advantage regardless of the hypnosis.

Itachi does seem like the strongest person right now, and can probably beat anyone (not sure about Jiraiya).

Jounins are in a completely different class of speed/strength from genins (and probably chuunins). They could all probably fight effectively against Lee (if he doesn't unlock gates).

The Gai vs Kakashi rivalry is probably mostly a good match-up because of Gai's taijutsu vs Kakashi's ninjutsu. From what Gai says, it seems that he's able to avoid genjutsu from the Sharingan. So for those of you who wonder why it's even a great rivalry when the Sharingan can't hypnotise him, it's because of the other techniques that Kakashi has copied. He is Konoha's #1 technique specialist after all.

And I get the impression that Gai is much stronger/faster than Kakashi. He hasn't shown any indication of ninjutsu or genjutsu (not saying he can't, just that he hasn't), so probably spends all his time working out. If he wasn't considerably better at taijutsu, then he'd get owned by Kakashi's ninjutsu.

jing

Sun, 05-23-2004, 10:18 PM

All signs points that Gai will beat Itachi? What the FARK are these signs everyone is talking about?
Lee and sasuke's fight was not a good example at all! cuz Sasuke is a weak lil boy who gets beaten by a loser that tried so hard to succeed. but we know itachi has speed. afterall he freaking caught sasuke's chidori... and his jutsu speed is incredible fast, im sure gai (a nin without a sharingan) cannot see through his jutsu speed.
++++++++PLUS ISN'T IT HARD ENOUGH TO BEAT SOMEONE BY LOOKING AT THEIR FEET? NOW YOU HAVE A DAMN UCHIHA GENIUS TO WORRY ABOUT.++++++++

Sun, 05-23-2004, 10:31 PM

exactly. plus itachi's sharingan genjutsu technique is not his only strength, we already now he needs to make eye contact for that to work, but he doesnt need to eye contact to predict movements and counter at incredible speed. in addition itachi might have all sorts of techniques the leaf ninja have never even seen, those he developed, and ones he has seen performed by other members of the organization he is a member of. looking at itachi's feet may protect you from one of his weapons, but he has plenty of others.

Mut

Sun, 05-23-2004, 10:49 PM

wow... finally people are realizing that gai's method is ineffective even if an opponent, who is the same fighting level as itachi, use it. my job is done.

Kumiriko

Sun, 05-23-2004, 10:55 PM

This thread is suppose to be about Counter the Sharingan. Not if Gai can beat Itchi. Gai's way dose get around the main dangers but that dosnt avoid it. So the fact remains it works. just dosnt protect agest anything eles

Gods_Son

Sun, 05-23-2004, 11:08 PM

rdkenshin

Sun, 05-23-2004, 11:11 PM

This is about countering the sharingan. I know gai would get his ass kicked but I think his feet method would counter it. After he looks at itachis feet he would get beat really fast, but not by the sharingan.

Kumiriko

Sun, 05-23-2004, 11:12 PM

Then agane. Fighting Blind isnt alwas a Bad thing. Sight is over rated.

Jessper

Mon, 05-24-2004, 12:42 AM

gai stood there wanting to fight them because not only did he know that more people were coming, gai isn't a pussy.
Is English your first language?

EDIT: vvvvv http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/thumbsup.gif vvvv Perfectly!? For a 3rd grader maybe. http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/cool.gif

Try staying on topic rather than trying to make your self seem smart.

In the end it would counter some of the abilities of the Sharingan though it is doubtful that it would make up for the loss of sight.

Himura_san

Mon, 05-24-2004, 12:43 AM

LMAO!! Am I the only one who finds it funny to watch Naruto geeks run amock!
I'll take a spin on this.
I cannot really say who is stronger or not since they have not fought, however if they were to fight I can say that my money would be on Itachi.

Shin_Naruto

Mon, 05-24-2004, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
wow... finally people are realizing that gai's method is ineffective even if an opponent, who is the same fighting level as itachi, use it. my job is done.

Wow. People are finally realizing that Gai's method is inneffective, even if Itachi' opponent was of equal fighting ability and was using Gai's method. My job is done.

http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/happy.gif -perfect- http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/happy.gif

My question earlier wasnt to demean you. I honestly thought English was your second language. Your usage of the word moron earlier though was quite excellent. http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/thumbsup.gifhttp://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/thumbsup.gif

Try staying on topic rather than trying to make your self seem smart.
I'll keep that in mind... next time I have to read a sentence three times to figure out what was meant to be said. That keeps the topics rolling right along.

kyuubi_

Mon, 05-24-2004, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by: Shin_Naruto
We didnt see Gai's method. Without seeing it in action it is impossible to tell if it would ultimatly put him at a disadvantage or not. Saying anything is for certain is just ignorance.

What we did see was Itachi respect Gai' fighting ability, telling Kisame not to underestimate him. Gai also didn't show any fear standing infront of Itachi which is either due to extreme stupidity (Mutata' will go with this one) or a belief he could fight him. None of this means Gai could stand a chance vs Itachi though.

I for one think Gai couldn't defeat Itachi. Gai never shows any sign of him believing he could win, just that he could fight him till reinforcements could appear.

duh.. but we're talkin bout Mut@t@ disagreeing gai's method will work.. anyway.. Itachi became andu squad leader at such a young age.. who's not afraid ?

kyuubi_

Mon, 05-24-2004, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by: Kumiriko
This thread is suppose to be about Counter the Sharingan. Not if Gai can beat Itchi. Gai's way dose get around the main dangers but that dosnt avoid it. So the fact remains it works. just dosnt protect agest anything eles

Precisely.. no one thought of the fact that if someone who's taijutsu can be much better than Gai which is at itachi's level could simply use the "Look at his feet" technique and screw his ass up..

Mut

Mon, 05-24-2004, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by: Shin_Naruto

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
wow... finally people are realizing that gai's method is ineffective even if an opponent, who is the same fighting level as itachi, use it. my job is done.

Wow. People are finally realizing that Gai's method is inneffective, even if Itachi' opponent was of equal fighting ability and was using Gai's method. My job is done.

http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/happy.gif -perfect- http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/happy.gif

My question earlier wasnt to demean you. I honestly thought English was your second language. Your usage of the word moron earlier though was quite excellent. http://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/thumbsup.gifhttp://forums.gotwoot.net/i/ratingicons/thumbsup.gif

Try staying on topic rather than trying to make your self seem smart.
I'll keep that in mind... next time I have to read a sentence three times to figure out what was meant to be said. That keeps the topics rolling right along.

lol, sorry my grammar isn't as good as your's. last time i checked, this isn't english 101. so, get a life and stop trying to correct my errors. if it takes you three times to comprehend what i wrote, the you're truly a dumbass. haha i/expressions/beer.gif

btw, if you're still gonna be correcting my shit, fix up my spelling too. i mess up on that sometimes.

chambers

Mon, 05-24-2004, 06:19 AM

the main thing i like abotu this forum is that people have never tried to correct my spelling. i dont feel like typing perfect english, i can and iam sure everyone else can here too, its a choice i make not to spell check and read through my posts.

i seriously thought this topic would have died, i mean its clear that one group will never accept the theory of the other group (despite it being sound) and vice versa. we should stop this now. it isnt going to end any times soon and more and more people are just flaming away.

EDIT: and abotu the poll started up, ov course gai would stand a *CHANCE* against itachi. it just wouldnt be a very big one, infact it would likley be minute, but id wager hed last longer than kakashi did. also of course itachi would murder gai, his power far exceeds gai's. but the fact still remains looking at the feet (which shows you everything form where they are to where they are going to be in a second) counters sharingan.

Garlannd

Mon, 05-24-2004, 07:53 AM

The truth: Inconclusive.

Assertn

Mon, 05-24-2004, 10:54 AM

thanks for ruining my poll guys.....i was trying to make it a civilized vote instead of just continuing the debate in another thread....but nooooooo i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

Y the alien: any reason for me using a "vet" tone is strictly to defend myself from your blatant attempt at flaming.....you had it coming i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif
i still dont fail to see how my analagy that to know if gai's method would counter the sharingan by first determining if gai would stand a chance against is in any way off, since being uchiha IS what makes itachi, and gai's fighting style IS what makes gai. If one is false, then the other will be false as well....

this isnt some lame magic: the gathering game where both sides of the fight have many different moves that can be performed and countered, if either gai or itachi's main abilities are defeated, then so are they

...hmm....i dont remember what else you were saying, but i believe this covers it

and chambers, you cant say "of course gai would stand a chance". if most people believe otherwise, then it isnt something that can be assumed. I wouldn't exactly say that kakashi could stand a chance against itachi, but I would say that jiraiya could probably stand a chance against itachi. The difference is in whether or not the good side could possibly land a blow on itachi (or at least a good enough of a possibility to have itachi be more cautious, as he was with jiraiya)

chambers

Mon, 05-24-2004, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure

this isnt some lame magic: the gathering game where both sides of the fight have many different moves that can be performed and countered, if either gai or itachi's main abilities are defeated, then so are they

no i believe the analogy is correct, just because it doesnt fit in with what you are saying doesnt make it incorrect. you say if there main abilities are defeated then so are they? from what we have seen of itachi so far he pretty much uses his mangekyou sharingan (right spelling?) to dominate fights. if gai doesnt look at his feet then thats that out of the window does he gain an instant win? DOES HE HELL!

and it is of course obvious gai would stand a chance, if he didnt itachi would have eliinated him with the blink of an eye and walked off, the same goes for kurenai and asuma, if the posed no threat whatsoever he would have just walked right through them. of course they stand a *chance* but its probly just an incredibly small one.

also..........i didnt ruin your poll, i was in bed!!

Assertn

Mon, 05-24-2004, 11:39 AM

i wasnt referring to the "mangekyou" as his main ability.....it was acknowleding him being uchiha and having the sharingan....if gai knows of a way to beat the powers of an advanced clan, then he would certainly be capable of winning.

if gai had shown up at the beginning instead of, say, kurenai....then im sure itachi wouldve fought him instead.....it was because at that point there were 4 jounins and more on the way to deal with that itachi decided fighting was pointless and decided to leave.....and i'd have to say that whether a person could survive for 1 second or 1 minute from an attack from itachi wouldn't determine whether or not they "stood a chance"

chambers

Mon, 05-24-2004, 11:44 AM

well despite what youd 'have to say' your wrong. if you can last a round in boxing then you have a chance of winning. if you can throw one punch in one round you have a chance of winning. if you have the chance to throw a single throwing knife you coudl win it.

Shin_Naruto

Mon, 05-24-2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
btw, if you're still gonna be correcting my shit, fix up my spelling too. i mess up on that sometimes.

I'm not too good at spelling =P I know my faults.

Spelling is not something that should be corrected online, however grammer conveys your point and that is the entire point of posting. If you can't convey exactly what it is you mean to say, then you are missrepresenting your thoughts.

You can almost get through a post without insulting someone... thats so good! GOLD STAR!

Assertn

Mon, 05-24-2004, 12:28 PM

now you're comparing it to boxing? seriously.....does the concept of "not taking a fight seriously and toying with the enemy" make any sense? because if you take for example gaara vs the rain nins.....just because those rain nins didnt die the instant gaara showed up, doesnt mean they stood a chance. The main guy even had a chance to "throw a single throwing knife" (although it was more like hundreds of needles), but that didnt give him any more of a chance at winning. boxing is a game in which 2 people are fighting, and each one is capable of beating the crap out of the other if given the opportunity......in naruto, it can be physically impossible for one to beat the other no matter how much time they have to work with or how many kunais are at their disposal

chambers

Mon, 05-24-2004, 12:40 PM

not true, like for example neji vs naruto, there was no way naruto should have been able to stand. like sasuke vs gaara there is no way he should have been able to hit him. narto and sasuke vs kabuza they should never have been able to force him into a losing position form where he was.

all those siutations should nto have been possible, kabuza especially should have murderd naruto an sasuke. but beacus they had a CHANCE it was believable when they overcame the situation. as long as there remains the chance that you can dodge someones attack then you can win. if you can attack you can win. its like if you had a knight and a spearchucker against each other the spearchucker DOES have a chance.

EDIT: damn i knew i was spelling it wrong!

Assertn

Mon, 05-24-2004, 01:17 PM

im not surprised naruto stood up from neji's attack....he's known to have the highest stamina out of all the genins....and in fact most things dealing with naruto you cant use in reference to match ups with other characters....because the mere fact that he has a demon inside him lets him defy many things that others couldnt. You're not supposed to take the "stand a chance" concept literally.....because by the same token, there's a CHANCE that a meteor could fall from the sky and land on itachi's head. Is there really a need to analyze this further?

btw, its "zabuza", not "kabuza"

SDShamshel

Mon, 05-24-2004, 02:11 PM

If you are wondering what countering Kakashi has to do with not looking into his eyes, recall that one of Kakashi's strategies is to use hypnotism, like in the fight against Zabuza.

Mut

Mon, 05-24-2004, 03:23 PM

i don't even know what chambers is arguing anymore. either chambers is too thickheaded or he's just sooooooooooooooo smart that we can't comprehend what he is talking about.

Jessper

Mon, 05-24-2004, 05:39 PM

Spelling is not something that should be corrected online, however grammer conveys your point and that is the entire point of posting. If you can't convey exactly what it is you mean to say, then you are missrepresenting your thoughts.

Then what exactly does spelling do? i dos koe wet eww mias.

You can almost get through a post without insulting someone... thats so good! GOLD STAR!

Pot...kettle...black...

About Neji vs Naruto, the majority of the people watching didn't think he stood a chance but I personaly did belive he stood a chance because of the nine tails, it's prespective.

I get the feeling you under estimate the heros of this show Chambers.

Shin_Naruto

Mon, 05-24-2004, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by: Jessper
the majority of the people watching didn't think he stood a chance but I personaly did belive he stood a chance because of the nine tails, it's prespective

I hope you mean the majority of people in the anime. Nobody here thought the main character was going down in the first round.

The difference in Spelling vs Grammer:
Spelling mistakes still convey the idea being posted. You say 'under estimate' and I read 'underestimate'.
Grammer mistakes can create examples where one thing is said and another thing is heard.

Spelling Error = Inconsequential
Grammer Error = Significant

Let me know if there is anything else you need cleared up! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Mut

Mon, 05-24-2004, 06:29 PM

nah, grammar isn't that important. i've made it to college with my crappy grammar! w00t

EDIT: i'm not talking about grammar anymore, we're way OT. if you really want to know (why the hell would you), you can PM me.

chambers

Mon, 05-24-2004, 06:40 PM

yeah your only taking worse case grammar into acount when you can type like this with no grammar what so ever baring basinc syntax and it still is perfectly readable

Shin_Naruto

Mon, 05-24-2004, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
nah, grammar isn't that important. i've made it to college with my crappy grammar! w00t

What ya study?

Originally posted by: chambers
yeah your only taking worse case grammar into acount when you can type like this with no grammar what so ever baring basinc syntax and it still is perfectly readable

OMG my brain hurts i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Jessper

Mon, 05-24-2004, 08:12 PM

Ya, meant to include the words "in the stadium" but forgot to. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Thanks for the reply, I didn't quite understand what you meant by that for some reason.

I agree with chambers, most people won't have a problem/hissy fit when reading poor grammer on internet forums. Correcting it for people just makes you look like a prick.

kaigan

Mon, 05-24-2004, 09:40 PM

what happened to all the insults? keep them going.

ech3lon

Mon, 05-24-2004, 10:48 PM

how to counter sharingan for dummies!?

1. don't look into sharingan eyes
2. learn how to fight blindly
3. pull sharingan eyes off and make the user blinds
4. alternative use...... it seems dumb..... use mirror......
5. rayban glasses might be useful
6. hypnotic??
7. flashbang
8. use gun...
9. run like a girl
10. be friend with user

jing

Mon, 05-24-2004, 10:48 PM

By the way Naruto stood NO CHANCE if it weren't for his kyubi chakra. He would have died in the hands of Neji. Believe it.

originalkrn

Mon, 05-24-2004, 11:14 PM

By the way Neji would stand NO CHANCE if it weren't for his byakugen. He would have died in the hands of Naruto. Believe it.

rdkenshin

Mon, 05-24-2004, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by: jing
By the way Naruto stood NO CHANCE if it weren't for his kyubi chakra. He would have died in the hands of Neji. Believe it.

Exactly. But he has kyubis chakra so it doesnt matter...

wirm

Mon, 05-24-2004, 11:24 PM

Well, if Neji didn't have his byakugan and Naruto didn't have the Kyubi, it probably would have been a pretty short match.

Neji was faster than Naruto, and just plain better. His gentle fist style (jyuuken?) would have rocked Naruto's world even without seeing the tenketsus. I'm sure it would hurt just as much if he missed the chakra holes as when he hit them. After all, the 3rd exam, it seems to me he was just trying to humiliate Naruto rather than kill him.

originalkrn

Mon, 05-24-2004, 11:27 PM

hey, hi? you cant use gentle fists without byakugen. And even if you could, it would be useless cuz you can't even hit their chakra holes.

Gods_Son

Mon, 05-24-2004, 11:31 PM

Gai's trick doesn't work, it's settled.

Assertn

Mon, 05-24-2004, 11:32 PM

gentle fist isnt for hitting the tenketsu (chakra holes), its for hitting the chakra circulatory system (note that both hinata and neji can use gentle fist, yet only neji could hit the tenketsu)

but just the same, gentle fist wouldnt be very effecient without the byakugan

kaigan

Tue, 05-25-2004, 03:25 AM

who ever thinks that Gai's method works, please voice out your opinion and throw some insults to the ones that say it doesn't work.

chambers

Tue, 05-25-2004, 10:51 AM

knohamaru it wont be settled till i see itachi fight someone with similar abilities to gai but more powerfull. then it will be settled, at the moment everything points to yes it does work. not a single piece of hard evidence says it doesnt. not one. you can sit there all day and say how much better itachis sharingan is than kakashis but untell you tell me HOW its better (apart form one technique and stamina) then its a worthless point.

Jessper

Tue, 05-25-2004, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by: chambers
knohamaru it wont be settled till i see itachi fight someone with similar abilities to gai but more powerfull. then it will be settled, at the moment everything points to yes it does work. not a single piece of hard evidence says it doesnt. not one. you can sit there all day and say how much better itachis sharingan is than kakashis but untell you tell me HOW its better (apart form one technique and stamina) then its a worthless point.

What points to it working? The fact that Gai said it would, the fact that you need eye contact for 2 of the many things that the sharingan can do? The question was about a trick to counter the Sharingan, not the mangekyou sharingan or it's abillity to mess with your mind(only 2 things, it is still a strong bloodlimit), this is no counter, simply leather armor when you have an arrow comming for your heart.

chambers

Tue, 05-25-2004, 12:15 PM

what points to it working. ok here goes ive listed them about 50 times before and all ive had back is bull shit comebacks such as "but itachi is stronger than (insert name here)!!!"

1. its shown CLEARLY that if you cant move your body fast enough to block or counter then sharingan is 100% useless (sasuke v rock)
2. Gai being in control (49- 50 is it?) in there match ups clearly shows that this proveds a CHANCE for such a strat to work against itachi
3. Gai stateing that he knows a way to get around both the sharingan AND the mangekyou (sp?)
4. (incredibly dodgy point that cant relistically be argued) lee knows how to open gates, therfore gai should too.

also your leather armour analogy is pure bull. like i sad gais style is to be fast and strong, this style would counter the sharingan (refer to point one). also using your analogy i expect you know the arrow would pierce the leather and therefore you are suggesting a guranteed and inveitable win for itachi, this is not the case, one lucky hit from the gai strat user could render him useless. i actually think that neji's uncle would be more suited to fighting because his style (being similar to neji's) is also very physical, therefore if he can hit the tenketsu(again sp?) he would win

Mut

Tue, 05-25-2004, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
1. its shown CLEARLY that if you cant move your body fast enough to block or counter then sharingan is 100% useless (sasuke v rock)
3. Gai stateing that he knows a way to get around both the sharingan AND the mangekyou (sp?)

like i sad gais style is to be fast and strong, this style would counter the sharingan (refer to point one).

i agree that gai's method counters mangekyou sharingan, but it cannot counter the actual sharingan itself since reading, copying, and defeating jutsus does not require eye contact.

Originally posted by: chambers
ok his *method* doesnt counter it, but his style (speed and strength) certianly does.

no, it doesn't. did it also say that gai is faster and stronger than itachi just like how it said that kakashi knew all jutsus?

chambers

Tue, 05-25-2004, 12:35 PM

ok his *method* doesnt counter it, but his style (speed and strength) certianly does.

SofaKing

Tue, 05-25-2004, 12:38 PM

Chambers, shut up.

You don't know what you're talking about.

"2. Gai being in control (49- 50 is it?) in there match ups clearly shows that this proveds a CHANCE for such a strat to work against itachi"

Itachi is MUCH stronger than Kakashi, moron. You might as well be saying that anyone who can beat Sasuke
has a chance against Itachi.

"3. Gai stateing that he knows a way to get around both the sharingan AND the mangekyou (sp?)"

Gai only has a way around the Mangekyou, not the sharingan. Stop making things up.

chambers

Tue, 05-25-2004, 12:52 PM

whos making things up you idiot? listen to me you for fucks sake. KAKSHI CANNOT DO MANGEKYOU, FOR GAI TO KNOW HIS METHOD WORKS IT MUST SOMEHOW COUNTER SHARINGAN ALSO.

also i never said itachi wasnt stronger than kakashi. like i said some fucking idiots can only say "DUUURRRR BU DA ITACHI IS STWONGER DAN DA KAKASHI" are you such a FUCKIN idiot that you seriousley believe gai would stand a chance, as in not last a single second, as in not get a single muscle movement, as in not get a damn heartbeat in when he was fighting itachi? also the fact he has a chance (however incredibly minimal it is) is besides the point what iam saying is that someone who was at the same level as itachi but using gai's style and strat could clearly have a reasonable chance at beating itachi.

Mut

Tue, 05-25-2004, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
KAKSHI CANNOT DO MANGEKYOU, FOR GAI TO KNOW HIS METHOD WORKS IT MUST SOMEHOW COUNTER SHARINGAN ALSO.

no no no. it doesn't actually counter reading movements, copying them, or defeating them. all it does is it counters the genjutsu part of the sharingan, more specifically the genjutsus that are performed via eyes. gai's method just negates the worst part of sharingan but after that method sucks, it just puts you at a disadvantage.

Assertn

Tue, 05-25-2004, 01:42 PM

the mere fact that itachi could prolly pull off jutsus faster kakashi could even see it would lead me to believe that he could pull off jutsus faster than gai could move, therefore itachi should be able to kick gai's ass by just standing there

chambers

Tue, 05-25-2004, 03:15 PM

yeah but iam not saying a gai vs itachi fight, i have no problme in understanding itachi far surpasses his power.

jing

Tue, 05-25-2004, 03:29 PM

It's a fact that if Naruto didn't have Kyubi sealed into him, his chakra would have been depleted because of 64 hands of hakke. Neji learned 64 hands on his own. Naruto didn't learn anything cept "stupid fox give me some chakra" that is the difference. t0 i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gifriginakrn so you can't just say sasuke's sharingan, neji's byakugan. i understand that everyone has their own traits, but if you take out byakugan and kyubi, i don't think naruto would stand a chance. but in this case its because Naruto had to tap into the powers of kyubi ( a power not HIS). the end.

chambers

Tue, 05-25-2004, 03:34 PM

64 hands of hakke uses byakugan tho so without it they would both probly be pretty weak

jing

Tue, 05-25-2004, 03:39 PM

Read my last sentence
Naruto tapped into someone else's power.
Neji tapped into his own powers.

besides Neji is more badass. dont you agree?

chambers

Tue, 05-25-2004, 04:04 PM

i certainly agree hes more badass, hell konohamaru is more badass than naruto.

but technicaly it was his faters power not his own. i think its unfair to say "well naruto's power is not his own" yet still demand that bloodline limits are thought of as such.

jing

Tue, 05-25-2004, 04:11 PM

No its Neji's power.
If you rip out his eyes, he will go blind/die of blood lost.
Unseal Naruto and he will just become a weak lil boy, but he wont die though.

edit:well actuallly i wonder if kyubi will burst Naruto open like a banana. or would it be Puff there is kyubi.
By the way, have you found the part that says Kakashi knows all jutsus? chambers.

Gods_Son

Tue, 05-25-2004, 04:22 PM

A bloodline doesn't guarantee extra help, Kyubi always seems to come out of nowhere and just keep giving Naruto a hand. Hinata is an example of bloodlines that go to waste, but Naruto (starts off a ninja just as shitty as Hinata), is able to use Kyubi and suddenly become amazing.

chambers

Tue, 05-25-2004, 04:29 PM

of course the blood line helps all the time. if you use it, it helps its just that so far all the situations naruto has been in extra stamina and physical strength have been what is required.

EDIT: not yet jing, ive gone past where i thought it was, but i havent finished the whole section if you know what i mean.

Mut

Tue, 05-25-2004, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
...it helps its just that so far all the situations naruto has been in extra stamina and physical strength have been what is required.

EDIT: not yet jing, ive gone past where i thought it was, but i havent finished the whole section if you know what i mean.

wow, when is extra stamina and physical strength not required??? and this isn't even actual normal ninja strength, this is fucking kyubi power.

and good luck finding it though. when you do find it, plz tell us.

Jessper

Tue, 05-25-2004, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
ok his *method* doesnt counter it, but his style (speed and strength) certianly does.

This was the point of my analogy, it doesn't counter it, it protects kind of(btw if the arrow wasn't moving too fast the leather would stop it).

What I'm getting from you is that if the person was stronger than itachi and knew how to fight looking at itachi's feet could win, but if he is just as fast as the person he is fighting(IE on the same level strength wise) and that person has to only look at his feet(no watching for seals) then he is at a serious disadvantage and itachi would still be able to predict movement and if they were the same level of strength he could probably win because he knew what was comming.

So I think I agree with you on a few points, gai can't beat Itachi, someone stronger than Itachi could beat Itachi for going eye contact. This leaves the problem of an equal fight and being forced to only look at his feet to attack.

SofaKing

Tue, 05-25-2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
whos making things up you idiot? listen to me you for fucks sake. KAKSHI CANNOT DO MANGEKYOU, FOR GAI TO KNOW HIS METHOD WORKS IT MUST SOMEHOW COUNTER SHARINGAN ALSO.

Kakashi can still use the Sharingan to fuck with your mind, you retard. Like I said, you don't know what the
hell you are talking about, so you make things up whenever you interpret anything.

also i never said itachi wasnt stronger than kakashi. like i said some fucking idiots can only say "DUUURRRR BU DA ITACHI IS STWONGER DAN DA KAKASHI"

When you say stupid shit like "Gai being in control (49- 50 is it?) in there match ups clearly shows that this
proveds a CHANCE for such a strat to work against itachi", you are using Kakashi as an idicator of Itachi's
strength.

are you such a FUCKIN idiot that you seriousley believe gai would stand a chance, as in not last a single
second, as in not get a single muscle movement, as in not get a damn heartbeat in when he was fighting
itachi?

That's an incredibly self-serving definition of "standing a chance"

To stand a chance means that Gai could possibly win, not that he would need to survive for a second
before he dies.

Black Knight

Tue, 05-25-2004, 06:07 PM

LISTEN UP

if you cant have a calm discussion, you wont have one at all. got it?

this isnt aimed towards everyone. just the select few who think theyre proving a point with name calling..

chambers

Tue, 05-25-2004, 08:20 PM

no sofa king if you use your head and realise just how fast some guys can pull out there techniques or throwing knives then you would know that all they need to win is a heartbeat and catch them off guard. so its reasonable to assume that anyone who can last just a few seconds has a extremley slim chance of winning.

and of course iam using kakshi as an indication of itachis stregnth, he is for all intents and purposes a weaker version of itachi.

Zabuza No Jutsu

Wed, 05-26-2004, 06:17 PM

From what i saw in the anime (dont flame me for this it's just a thought) Gai did seem to have the counter-sharingan pretty much worked out, as he'd used it may times previously with Kakashi. Problem is, would even Gai's eyes be able to match Itachi's speed?

Mut

Wed, 05-26-2004, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by: Zabuza No Jutsu
From what i saw in the anime (dont flame me for this it's just a thought) Gai did seem to have the counter-sharingan pretty much worked out, as he'd used it may times previously with Kakashi. Problem is, would even Gai's eyes be able to match Itachi's speed?

no. he didn't counter the actual sharingan itself, he countered gejutsus performed by sharingan. don't mix up the two, they are totally different.

Zabuza No Jutsu

Wed, 05-26-2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: Zabuza No Jutsu
From what i saw in the anime (dont flame me for this it's just a thought) Gai did seem to have the counter-sharingan pretty much worked out, as he'd used it may times previously with Kakashi. Problem is, would even Gai's eyes be able to match Itachi's speed?

no. he didn't counter the actual sharingan itself, he countered gejutsus performed by sharingan. don't mix up the two, they are totally different.

lol i was actually gonna type something along those lines but i thought "stupid idea"...ah well..hey anyway, what's the deal with kakashi's sharingan? He can't turn it off (hence the dinky looking forehead protector) would tht be cos he stole it frm an uchiha and ut it in him (hence the scar) ?

kaigan

Wed, 05-26-2004, 06:59 PM

worst come to worst, Gai just open the 8th gate and slaughter everyone and then die.

**************keep the flaming and insults going. it's sweet*************
-actually, dont... also, dont make comments like these.

SofaKing

Wed, 05-26-2004, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
no sofa king if you use your head and realise just how fast some guys can pull out there techniques or throwing knives then you would know that all they need to win is a heartbeat and catch them off guard. so its reasonable to assume that anyone who can last just a few seconds has a extremley slim chance of winning.

and of course iam using kakshi as an indication of itachis stregnth, he is for all intents and purposes a weaker version of itachi.

Once again, you are making things up. Do you even WATCH the series or do you just read about it on forums
and pretend that you've seen it?

There have been many fights in Naruto between two characters where one of them did not stand a chance
that have lasted much longer than a heartbeat. Or do you think that Sasuke really stood a chance against
Orochimaru?

Jessper

Thu, 05-27-2004, 12:37 AM

Chambers, you take figures of speech way to seriously, by having a chance it means a probable chance of winning. Like your example somewhere about you fighting mike tyson, you had a chance(or so you say) because if he tripped and nailed the pole on the corner knocking him self out but then if that was the idea there would have been no point in using the term as there is always a chance that something couild go horribly wrong. The point in using the term is that something wouldn't have to go horribly wrong like them spontaniously combusting in the middle of a fight for them to win but they could...perhaps.

Also, Kaigan that's assuming that it would indeed give him enough power we don't know how strong Itachi really is just yet...

kyuubi_

Thu, 05-27-2004, 05:24 AM

c'mon chambers some people just can't accept the fact that there's always something to counter something.

they just want sharingan to be perfect and ignore all the pts we've pointed out..

jing

Thu, 05-27-2004, 06:43 AM

of course sharingan isn't perfect. But Itachi's is...
like itachi said, everyone has a weakness, and looking at your opponent's feet while fighting them just won't work.

chambers

Thu, 05-27-2004, 09:09 AM

why not?

CyberPunk

Thu, 05-27-2004, 10:28 AM

why not? because he's only looking at his fucking feet. you can't tell me that is any type of advantage, especially against someone who's moves were almost too much for kakashi to follow.

Garlannd

Thu, 05-27-2004, 10:31 AM

I better start pulling out the bars of soap.

To the Gai counter all I can say is this.

Look at the feet and hope not to be beat.

evoL

Thu, 05-27-2004, 10:48 AM

do you guys really think that just because Itachi is the strongest he can kill/defeat everyone?!? kyubii was by far stronger (a demom!!!!!) and still he got defeated...maybe there's more to it than pure strengh or skill....

i heard lot's of times in this forum that Itachi translation about jiraya was wrong, maybe it was correct, not that jiraya is stronger than him but that itachi can get hurt or even sealed or something in the fight

maybe gai trick is Itachi (sharigan weakness) join it with the gai ability to open the chakra gates and maybe itachi will be defeated. The fighting is not linear you cannot say Itachi > gai then he wins, weaker people have a chance even if a small one, that's real life and naruto creator seems to agree

Vagabond

Thu, 05-27-2004, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by: jing
of course sharingan isn't perfect. But Itachi's is...
like itachi said, everyone has a weakness, and looking at your opponent's feet while fighting them just won't work.

Well it works if you're faster than your opponent, but Gai isn't faster than Itachi so it doesn't work.

evoL: Yes, the translation is correct.

Knives122

Thu, 05-27-2004, 11:18 AM

and dont forget that what we saw when he fought Kakashi wasnt even the tip of the ice berg, so Gai wouldnt stand a chance

Jessper

Thu, 05-27-2004, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
c'mon chambers some people just can't accept the fact that there's always something to counter something.

they just want sharingan to be perfect and ignore all the pts we've pointed out..

You are an idiot, there is not always a counter to everything and we said that it does take away 2 things from the sharingan but that simply won't be enough.

Mut

Thu, 05-27-2004, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by: kyuubi_
c'mon chambers some people just can't accept the fact that there's always something to counter something.

they just want sharingan to be perfect and ignore all the pts we've pointed out..

there is actually a counter to sharingan that works 100%... you have to be a full uchiha and have mastered the sharingan just like what itachi said. gai's method only counters the mangekyou sharingan and that's about it, which really doesn't do that much.

Uchiha-Itachi

Thu, 05-27-2004, 01:16 PM

Yeah Itachi ownz thats obvious by now stupid fanboys i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
gai's method only counters the mangekyou sharingan and that's about it, which really doesn't do that much.

Erm Gai doesnt have any experience fighting Mange Sharingan, so thats a stupid statement i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Not to get caught by the Sharingan is simply not to look in their eyes wether its Kakashi's or Itachi's eyes, period..

That still brings you in a uber disadvantage, since the Sharingan user can still copy your jutsu's, but he won't be able to predict them i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Sharingan even Itachi "the sharingan successor" is not 100% unbeatable or uncounterable.

kthxbye~

Mut

Thu, 05-27-2004, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by: Uchiha-Itachi
Yeah Itachi ownz thats obvious by now stupid fanboys i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
gai's method only counters the mangekyou sharingan and that's about it, which really doesn't do that much.

Erm Gai doesnt have any experience fighting Mange Sharingan, so thats a stupid statement i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Not to get caught by the Sharingan is simply not to look in their eyes wether its Kakashi's or Itachi's eyes, period..

That still brings you in a uber disadvantage, since the Sharingan user can still copy your jutsu's, but he won't be able to predict them i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Sharingan even Itachi "the sharingan successor" is not 100% unbeatable or uncounterable.

kthxbye~

i've already said all those things, you tard. read them before you call my stuff stupid.

Originally posted by: chambers
as well of course not looking into the eyes counters it.

the only thing that does is counter genjutsus (that require eye contact) performed by the sharingan via the eyes. that is what the only thing gai's method counters, nothing else. there is only one method of countering the sharingan and it is to be an uchiha with the same level of sharingan or greater.

chambers

Thu, 05-27-2004, 01:41 PM

as well of course not looking into the eyes counters it.

Assertn

Thu, 05-27-2004, 02:48 PM

this argument seems to be moving in circles.......
i dunno, maybe its just me

JusDaMan

Thu, 05-27-2004, 02:52 PM

The trick to countering sharingan is to become "Daredevil" or that heart of sword guy from kenshin.... Lose ur eyesight and u have super sonic hearing. BOOYA there ya go instant counter sharingan =D

jing

Thu, 05-27-2004, 03:01 PM

If you look at the feet, he will kick your ass even harder.
AND if you fight a person just by looking at their feet, YOU are at a disadvantage.
IF LOOKING AT FEETS WHILE FIGHTING IS SO GOOD, WHY DOESN'T EVERY NINJA DO IT.
it just means that if they aren't force to do it, they won't do it, because its a hard task to do, and fer christ sake, Gai is fighting Itachi, just that is a MAJOR disadvantage already.

the only person that can beat itachi is Gaara, because Gaara will throw sand in his eyes and make him go blind. OR Ramen shop owner will beat itachi because he will poison the Ramen with rat poison.

Shin_Naruto

Thu, 05-27-2004, 03:40 PM

Pop Quiz.

Fighter A watches Fighter B's eyes.
Fighter B watches Fighter A's feet and body.
Who do you think would have the advantage in a fight?

I would say Fighter B because looking at an opponants eyes in a fight is pretty fooking stupid regaurdless of your opponant having lightning bolts that shoot out of their eyes and fireballs that shoot out of their ass.

Jessper

Thu, 05-27-2004, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
as well of course not looking into the eyes counters it.

Ok, you need to understand what counter means before you use it.

v. coun·tered, coun·ter·ing, coun·ters
v. tr.
To meet or return (a blow) by another blow.
To move or act in opposition to; oppose.
To offer in response: countered that she was too busy to be thorough.

How in the world is it countering the Sharingan? It only defends against some of the power of the Sharingan.

Uchiha-Itachi

Thu, 05-27-2004, 05:01 PM

You counter it by watching to his feets, *DAH*

Mut

Thu, 05-27-2004, 05:05 PM

i think some of you guys still think that gai's method effectively nullifies the actual entire abilities of sharingan when in fact, the method only defends against tsukuyomi. stop getting the two mixed up.

Uchiha-Itachi

Thu, 05-27-2004, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

the only thing that does is counter genjutsus (that require eye contact) performed by the sharingan via the eyes. that is what the only thing gai's method counters, nothing else. there is only one method of countering the sharingan and it is to be an uchiha with the same level of sharingan or greater.

You cant counter anything that doesnt do anything, tard i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif (just lowering myself to your lvl, cuz of the swearing whoohoo its pretty cold down here)

Anyways the main thing of the Sharingan is to predict the moves and jutsu's your opponent is gonna do, then counter attack with the same jutsu (You copied) or another. Well and if you mastered Mange Sharingan you rock ass. period .

So if you don't watch in the Sharingan eyes (of any Sharingan user), thus he can't predict you thus he can't counter your attacks/jutsu's (he can still copy them though.. so in fact you are countering his Sharingan i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

The only thing you have to manage is to try watch in his eyes, since that isnt that hard cuz the opponent had a mayor disadvantage cuz he can only see you feet..

oh besides Itachi isnt afraid for Jiraiya, but he damn well knowz he doesn't stand a chance against him!

So you quickly changed your sig Mutata? itachi is the strongest bla bla (not)

fanboy alert i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Jessper

Thu, 05-27-2004, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by: Uchiha-Itachi
You counter it by watching to his feets, *DAH*

uhh, read the definition again please.

And the Sharingan can predict movements with out eye contact.

you can't counter the Sharingan by not looking into the eyes, that only defends against the part of the sharingan that screws with your mind not the ability to predict movements(Read: Not making you do movements to act like your doing them at the same time but predicting movement)

Uchiha-Itachi

Thu, 05-27-2004, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by: Jessper

Originally posted by: Uchiha-Itachi
You counter it by watching to his feets, *DAH*

uhh, read the definition again please.

And the Sharingan can predict movements with out eye contact.

you can't counter the Sharingan by not looking into the eyes, that only defends against the part of the sharingan that screws with your mind not the ability to predict movements(Read: Not making you do movements to act like your doing them at the same time but predicting movement)

Well i guess you missed the zabuza saga then where kakashi explained it..

You need eye contact to sort off hypnotize him, so you can predict the jutsu's and counter against it..

Go watch it again you'll see..

And dont give me the crap Itachi has better Sharingan then Kakashi (well he does) but you still need the damn eye contact to hypnotize your opponent! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

jing

Thu, 05-27-2004, 05:35 PM

I don't think you get it. Ok, so what IF you don't get hypnotized. YOU STILL LOSE AND GET KILLED by looking at his feet.

Jessper

Thu, 05-27-2004, 06:10 PM

No, I saw the Zabuza saga, it was explained in what would seem to me that with the eye contact kakshi got into his mind and made him choose a move that he knew so he could do it along with him, that has nothing to do with the sharingan predicting where someone's foot is going to land.

However I will go watch it again tonight just in case =)

Mut

Thu, 05-27-2004, 06:13 PM

uchiha-itachi, you are a complete dumbass. you are possibly even stupider than itachi_ was when he was new here.

1. i got rid of my original sig cuz i now i have an entire site for it, tard. and it's been a long time since i've changed it.

2. you obviously don't understand what the sharingan does. it should be pretty obvious that to read, copy, and counter an opponents jutsu/movement with the shaingan, eye contact between the two fighters is not needed.

3. you are completely confused about what zabuza explained. when zabuza was explaining the sharingan and how sharingan user use genjutsu to 'see the future' he wasn't talking about using the sharingan to copy and counter movements. zabuza was explaining ONLY about the 'seeing the future.' you first use genjutsu to confuse the opponent and then say some bs to confuse the opponent even more while they are still hypnotized. kakashi didn't know what zabuza was gonna say (no one can see the future, duh) all he did was imply that, that was what zabuza was gonna say and used genjutsu make him believe that. and zabuza fell for it because he was hit by the genjutsu earlier.

4. let me explain this AGAIN. gai's method (looking at the sharingan user's feet) only prevents you from being hit by tsukuyomi or any other genjutsu that requires eye contact. that's all it does. it does not stop the sharingan from seeing, copying, and countering jutsus because the sharingan user still can see everything you're doing. you're thinking as if looking at the sharingan user's feet nullifies the actual eye sight of the sharingan user.

EDIT: even though i've proved your wrong like 10 times and clearly explained what you are wrong about in like the 30 posts i've posted on this thread, you still probably won't understand. but it's ok, i'm not expecting much.

ScottW

Thu, 05-27-2004, 09:19 PM

Episode 82 (Shin Otaku translation):

Gai said first: "the only way to move against him is to focus on his feet",
but after that he also said: "Well, there is another way to move, but now's not the time."

So I suggest to just wait and see. Although, I doubt Gai will have to confront him again.

jing

Thu, 05-27-2004, 09:25 PM

Gai also says "I've contacted Anbu already" (means "im scared shitless and i need Anbu to use as a human shield")
its like hockey, if you don't lift your head up your bound to get a concusion.

EnergyCallingMe

Fri, 05-28-2004, 02:09 AM

here A REALLY SIMPLE WAY TO COUNTER IT its called sunglasses if they onyl had sunglass itachi couldnt do shit i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Uchiha-Itachi

Fri, 05-28-2004, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
uchiha-itachi, you are a complete dumbass. you are possibly even stupider than itachi_ was when he was new here.

1. i got rid of my original sig cuz i now i have an entire site for it, tard. and it's been a long time since i've changed it.

2. you obviously don't understand what the sharingan does. it should be pretty obvious that to read, copy, and counter an opponents jutsu/movement with the shaingan, eye contact between the two fighters is not needed.

3. you are completely confused about what zabuza explained. when zabuza was explaining the sharingan and how sharingan user use genjutsu to 'see the future' he wasn't talking about using the sharingan to copy and counter movements. zabuza was explaining ONLY about the 'seeing the future.' you first use genjutsu to confuse the opponent and then say some bs to confuse the opponent even more while they are still hypnotized. kakashi didn't know what zabuza was gonna say (no one can see the future, duh) all he did was imply that, that was what zabuza was gonna say and used genjutsu make him believe that. and zabuza fell for it because he was hit by the genjutsu earlier.

4. let me explain this AGAIN. gai's method (looking at the sharingan user's feet) only prevents you from being hit by tsukuyomi or any other genjutsu that requires eye contact. that's all it does. it does not stop the sharingan from seeing, copying, and countering jutsus because the sharingan user still can see everything you're doing. you're thinking as if looking at the sharingan user's feet nullifies the actual eye sight of the sharingan user.

EDIT: even though i've proved your wrong like 10 times and clearly explained what you are wrong about in like the 30 posts i've posted on this thread, you still probably won't understand. but it's ok, i'm not expecting much.

Well explain me then why Gai defeats kakashi 50-49 or 49-50 with that tactic? The only difference from Kakashi and Itachi is that Itachi can use Mange Sharingan..

And for the fact you have to swear all the time proofs how low selve steem you have... got bullied all your live on school etc.. and now you need to release the frustration on the internet? lol get a life!

Thats with all the pussies big mouth behind their monitor, but IRL they shit their pants..

jing

Fri, 05-28-2004, 06:34 AM

Dude, it hasn't even been explained what 50-49 or 49-50 were for, how can you say they were battles. they never said it was battles.

Uchiha-Itachi

Fri, 05-28-2004, 07:03 AM

no a match of who won the most jerk off battles..

...idiot...

chambers

Fri, 05-28-2004, 12:57 PM

well its a fact that they wernt ALL fights, because in the stadium they use the kill counts to see who wins, and thats no a battle between them.

Fri, 05-28-2004, 01:26 PM

Uchiha-Itachi is wrong, mut@t@ is right. gai's tactic only nullifies the genjutsu techniques a sharingan user exercise. a sharingan user does not need to make eye contact to predict movements and jutsu. and theres a big difference between itachi and kakashi's sharingan, the biggest of which is the manga sharingan or whatever, but what about the black flames he used in 85? plus itachi has an uchiha's body, so he can use the sharingan longer and more precise than kakashi.

jing

Fri, 05-28-2004, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by: Uchiha-Itachi
no a match of who won the most jerk off battles..

...idiot...

oh so im the idiot eh? WE SHALL SEE. haha loser you have no idea.

chambers

Fri, 05-28-2004, 03:50 PM

s-k iam inclined to believe that the black flames were not a sharingan related attack but rather a technique he copied off of somone else.

Uchiha-Itachi

Fri, 05-28-2004, 04:06 PM

no use discussing with the fanboys.. if itachi says grass is purple tomorrow all the fanboys believe its purple tomorrow or when itachi says jump in a river they jump in a river..

i rest my case.

CyberPunk

Fri, 05-28-2004, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by: Uchiha-Itachi
no use discussing with the fanboys.. if itachi says grass is purple tomorrow all the fanboys believe its purple tomorrow or when itachi says jump in a river they jump in a river..

i rest my case.

that's hilarious. more so because of the source.

Fri, 05-28-2004, 06:04 PM

lol whyd you name yourself itachi if your not an itachi fanboy yourself haha. and im not an itachi fanboy, my favorite character is Kakashi, hence my name.

chambers

Fri, 05-28-2004, 06:06 PM

SHARINGAN FANBOY!!!

itsgalf

Fri, 05-28-2004, 06:58 PM

Ok, to recap...

- Looking at an sharingan user's feet will prevent you from being "hypnotized" or being caught in Mangekyou Sharingan. However, the sharingan can still be used to copy/counter your moves.
- Gai would have lost to Itachi, but if there were a taijutsu user at the same level of Itachi, it is possible for him to win if he uses the watch the feet method.
- Most of you in here could never properly debate because you like to attack the other person who has an opinion different from your own.

Alright, that's pretty much it

Jessper

Sat, 05-29-2004, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by: chambers
s-k iam inclined to believe that the black flames were not a sharingan related attack but rather a technique he copied off of somone else.

I don't think so, if you watch just before it happens off screen it shows Itachi closing then opening his eyes much akain to mange Sharingan(forgive the spelling if it's wrong...) so it seems to me it is another bloodlimit of the shringan but we didn't watch it all happen so....

Also Uchiha-Itachi, you have been proved wrong on at least your last few points, as such your last comment is pretty ironic.

Uchiha-Itachi

Sat, 05-29-2004, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
lol whyd you name yourself itachi if your not an itachi fanboy yourself haha. and im not an itachi fanboy, my favorite character is Kakashi, hence my name.

Itachi is my favorite character, but im not sucking up his ass and stay realistic...

Uchiha-Itachi

Sat, 05-29-2004, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by: Jessper

Originally posted by: chambers
s-k iam inclined to believe that the black flames were not a sharingan related attack but rather a technique he copied off of somone else.

I don't think so, if you watch just before it happens off screen it shows Itachi closing then opening his eyes much akain to mange Sharingan(forgive the spelling if it's wrong...) so it seems to me it is another bloodlimit of the shringan but we didn't watch it all happen so....

Also Uchiha-Itachi, you have been proved wrong on at least your last few points, as such your last comment is pretty ironic.

Tell me wich points..

Assertn

Sat, 05-29-2004, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by: ScottW
Episode 82 (Shin Otaku translation):

Gai said first: "the only way to move against him is to focus on his feet",
but after that he also said: "Well, there is another way to move, but now's not the time."

So I suggest to just wait and see. Although, I doubt Gai will have to confront him again.

you're new.....so i woudnt expect you to know this..
but Shin Otaku has no merit here......they've proven many times that their translations are nothing to rely on

Tofu #2

Sat, 05-29-2004, 01:52 PM

im sure that there was a different way. something like not look directly into their eyes and use water or your forehead protector as a mirror sorta like medusa

Jessper

Sat, 05-29-2004, 04:15 PM

So if you don't watch in the Sharingan eyes (of any Sharingan user), thus he can't predict you thus he can't counter your attacks/jutsu's (he can still copy them though.. so in fact you are countering his Sharingan

Originally posted by: Uchiha-Itachi
no a match of who won the most jerk off battles..

...idiot...

Both these points for instance Uchiha-Itachi, they can still predict movement with out looking into the eyes, and the 49-51 battle record of kakshi and gai is shown to be not only battles between the two but competitions of enemys defeated ect.

Gods_Son

Sat, 05-29-2004, 04:31 PM

The competitions between Kakashi and Gai are a joke. Kakashi isn't even attention to the rivalry, Gai is just an idiot.

jing

Sat, 05-29-2004, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by: Jessper

So if you don't watch in the Sharingan eyes (of any Sharingan user), thus he can't predict you thus he can't counter your attacks/jutsu's (he can still copy them though.. so in fact you are countering his Sharingan

Originally posted by: Uchiha-Itachi
no a match of who won the most jerk off battles..

...idiot...

Both these points for instance Uchiha-Itachi, they can still predict movement with out looking into the eyes, and the 49-51 battle record of kakshi and gai is shown to be not only battles between the two but competitions of enemys defeated ect.

Unlike Uchiha-Itachi, Jessper here actually watches the anime and understands it quite well.

Enigmatic_Paragon

Sun, 05-30-2004, 12:25 AM

Ive read through the first few pages and couldnt be bothered to read through the rest, but heres my 2 cents worth:

Gai has developed techniques to counter the Sharingan. Kakashi has a sharingan which he cant use perfectly. Gai has for all intents and purposes, a 50% win ratio against Kakashi. (If you discount comments by Kisimoto that those 50/99 wins included rock scissors and paper duels).
That essentially means, he has an equal chance of winning/losing against Kakashi.

Next point I want to establish is that Itachi is not a one trick dog.
Statement:

Orochimaru doesnt have a sharingan. Therefore, he must be at about jounin level - you know, about the level of Asuma and Kurenai.

Sound familiar? Its something similar to whats been said in this thread, namely (and I paraphrase):

If Itachi's sharingan is negated, he's really very weak.

Really, the sharingan is a vaunted bloodline ability but its not some cheat for instant invincibility. Sure its strong, but if the Sharingan alone counted for so much, all Konoha would have to do is to train up the Uchia clan to the average jounin level, and then send them out in say, groups of 5 to each major nation and take over the world. Sorry, not going to happen. The fact is, the Sharingan is an important asset to those who posses it, but its far from some magical ability that alone grants its user powers that Orichimaru fears.

The reality? From what has been revealed in the anime, Itachi is incredibly strong wether he uses his sharingan or not. Thats only a logical deduction - I find it hard to believe he could have become an ANBU commander at 13 if he was essentially a one trick dog. His fight against Kurenai, and then Kakashi should have told you that.

Final reminder: Itachi floored Kurenai, followed by Kakashi.

So, what do you get when you put the 3 points together? Lets summarise the facts:

1)Gai has a 50/50 chance of winning or losing against Kakashi.
2)Itachi is still significantly above the jounin level - yes, that means above Gai and Kakashi asl well - when he doesnt use his Sharingan.
3) Itachi has absolutely no problems dealing with Kakashi.

Conclusion: According to some, Gai can beat Itachi!
Lets get real - against someone of Kakashi's level, with specialised techniques to defeat his sharingan, Gai has a 50/50 chance. Its foolish to think that Itachi is a Kakashi with a better sharingan. Everything we've been given so far points to the fact that Itachi is far surpasses Kakashi in ALL areas. Hence, we must conclude that if gai has a 50/50 chance against someone of Kakashi's level (remember Kakashi had the sharingan! He didnt automatically lose to Gai becuase he had the sharingan and Gai tried to act against it!) and Itachi far surpasses Kakashi, Itachi would destroy Gai.

Forget about the sharingan - many of you appear to think that once the sharingan is nullified, their users are useless. Reality check! Most of the strongest characters dont HAVE a sharingan, and theyre NOT useless! Unless you have a sudden urge to say that Gai is capable of beating Orochimaru (in which case I wont bother replying) because obviously if Orochimaru had a sharingan, Gai has techniques that would nullify it making Orichimaru an average jounin, then you have one unplesant logical fallacy on your hands.

The whole point? Gai's techniques aren't some magical cheat to kill sharingan users. He avoids getting drawn into its effects by looking away, and compensates for looking away by predicting the movements of the enemy. Overall, it means that the only thing he's *gained* is the ability to fight without being drawn into the sharingans negative effects. This completely ignores the fact that its likely the sharingan user would still be able to enjoy the benifits of enhanced insight into the enemy. The bit about Gai being able to predict movement based of feet - traditionally, youre supposed to be able to predict movement based on small actions you take before doing something (And I realise im extrapolating to a great degree here) - hence we can assume that normally, experienced fighters can predict movement as well - Just not on the basis of feet alone.

Anyways, Ive written FAR too much. Good day.

jing

Sun, 05-30-2004, 01:36 AM

Wow, I actually read all that. Good stuff, nicely said.
Might I add that Itachi is also known for his godly shuriken techniques.

Uchiha-Itachi

Sun, 05-30-2004, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by: jing

Originally posted by: Jessper

So if you don't watch in the Sharingan eyes (of any Sharingan user), thus he can't predict you thus he can't counter your attacks/jutsu's (he can still copy them though.. so in fact you are countering his Sharingan

Originally posted by: Uchiha-Itachi
no a match of who won the most jerk off battles..

...idiot...

Both these points for instance Uchiha-Itachi, they can still predict movement with out looking into the eyes, and the 49-51 battle record of kakshi and gai is shown to be not only battles between the two but competitions of enemys defeated ect.

Unlike Uchiha-Itachi, Jessper here actually watches the anime and understands it quite well.

/me waves @ the fanboy i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

jing

Sun, 05-30-2004, 08:55 AM

It is so obvious that your argument got owned and you're in denial.. stop trying, your disgracing yourself. you call people fan boys when they prove you wrong, when they are JUST anime/manga watchers. It doesn't even require a fanboy to prove you wrong.

stop wasting time on this forum and actually go watch Naruto.

Uchiha-Itachi

Sun, 05-30-2004, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by: jing
It is so obvious that your argument got owned and you're in denial.. stop trying, your disgracing yourself. you call people fan boys when they prove you wrong, when they are JUST anime/manga watchers. It doesn't even require a fanboy to prove you wrong.

stop wasting time on this forum and actually go watch Naruto.

Been there done that now you should try watching it i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Assertn

Sun, 05-30-2004, 11:46 AM

Uchiha-Itachi, i havent been in this particular thread much lately.....but im confused about what side you are actually on in this debate......
do you actually believe gai would win, or are you just an itachi-fan bounty hunter? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

chambers

Sun, 05-30-2004, 11:48 AM

i dotn think anyone is under the illusion that gai would win, and ive certainly never said he could.

this topic is just like 90% flames now, theres no point to such a topic.

Jessper

Sun, 05-30-2004, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
or are you just an itachi-fan bounty hunter? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

LOL, I like it! i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Btw Uchiha-Itachi I like how you skipped my post and went to flame jing best you could =P

Gods_Son

Sun, 05-30-2004, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by: Jessper

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
or are you just an itachi-fan bounty hunter? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

LOL, I like it! i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Btw Uchiha-Itachi I like how you skipped my post and went to flame jing best you could =P

I also like how this thread is just a pointless fight with Uchiha-Itachi now.
Gai can't beat Itachi, and his trick to counter the sharingan is just stupid.

v heh, that's true v

Jessper

Sun, 05-30-2004, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by: KonohamaruCorps

Originally posted by: Jessper

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
or are you just an itachi-fan bounty hunter? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

LOL, I like it! i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Btw Uchiha-Itachi I like how you skipped my post and went to flame jing best you could =P

I also like how this thread is just a pointless fight with Uchiha-Itachi now.
Gai can't beat Itachi, and his trick to counter the sharingan is just stupid.

Only difference with most threads is it is a pointless fight with chambers instead.

Uchiha-Itachi

Sun, 05-30-2004, 01:07 PM

im just saying Itachi isnt invincible and no Gai can't beat Itachi, but Jiraiya can... i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

And its also funny to see those frustrated kids defending Itachi with their lives i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif

Its just stupid to see ppl making up things to protect their precious so called invincible Itachi..

jing

Sun, 05-30-2004, 02:08 PM

wow okay, when did i say he was invincible. when you prove your point, at least tell the truth.
please guys don't ignore this, he took effort in writing it.
and Don't ignore jessper's post uchiha-itachi.

Ive read through the first few pages and couldnt be bothered to read through the rest, but heres my 2 cents worth:

Gai has developed techniques to counter the Sharingan. Kakashi has a sharingan which he cant use perfectly. Gai has for all intents and purposes, a 50% win ratio against Kakashi. (If you discount comments by Kisimoto that those 50/99 wins included rock scissors and paper duels).
That essentially means, he has an equal chance of winning/losing against Kakashi.

Next point I want to establish is that Itachi is not a one trick dog.
Statement:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Orochimaru doesnt have a sharingan. Therefore, he must be at about jounin level - you know, about the level of Asuma and Kurenai.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sound familiar? Its something similar to whats been said in this thread, namely (and I paraphrase):

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Itachi's sharingan is negated, he's really very weak.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Really, the sharingan is a vaunted bloodline ability but its not some cheat for instant invincibility. Sure its strong, but if the Sharingan alone counted for so much, all Konoha would have to do is to train up the Uchia clan to the average jounin level, and then send them out in say, groups of 5 to each major nation and take over the world. Sorry, not going to happen. The fact is, the Sharingan is an important asset to those who posses it, but its far from some magical ability that alone grants its user powers that Orichimaru fears.

The reality? From what has been revealed in the anime, Itachi is incredibly strong wether he uses his sharingan or not. Thats only a logical deduction - I find it hard to believe he could have become an ANBU commander at 13 if he was essentially a one trick dog. His fight against Kurenai, and then Kakashi should have told you that.

Final reminder: Itachi floored Kurenai, followed by Kakashi.

So, what do you get when you put the 3 points together? Lets summarise the facts:

1)Gai has a 50/50 chance of winning or losing against Kakashi.
2)Itachi is still significantly above the jounin level - yes, that means above Gai and Kakashi asl well - when he doesnt use his Sharingan.
3) Itachi has absolutely no problems dealing with Kakashi.

Conclusion: According to some, Gai can beat Itachi!
Lets get real - against someone of Kakashi's level, with specialised techniques to defeat his sharingan, Gai has a 50/50 chance. Its foolish to think that Itachi is a Kakashi with a better sharingan. Everything we've been given so far points to the fact that Itachi is far surpasses Kakashi in ALL areas. Hence, we must conclude that if gai has a 50/50 chance against someone of Kakashi's level (remember Kakashi had the sharingan! He didnt automatically lose to Gai becuase he had the sharingan and Gai tried to act against it!) and Itachi far surpasses Kakashi, Itachi would destroy Gai.

Forget about the sharingan - many of you appear to think that once the sharingan is nullified, their users are useless. Reality check! Most of the strongest characters dont HAVE a sharingan, and theyre NOT useless! Unless you have a sudden urge to say that Gai is capable of beating Orochimaru (in which case I wont bother replying) because obviously if Orochimaru had a sharingan, Gai has techniques that would nullify it making Orichimaru an average jounin, then you have one unplesant logical fallacy on your hands.

The whole point? Gai's techniques aren't some magical cheat to kill sharingan users. He avoids getting drawn into its effects by looking away, and compensates for looking away by predicting the movements of the enemy. Overall, it means that the only thing he's *gained* is the ability to fight without being drawn into the sharingans negative effects. This completely ignores the fact that its likely the sharingan user would still be able to enjoy the benifits of enhanced insight into the enemy. The bit about Gai being able to predict movement based of feet - traditionally, youre supposed to be able to predict movement based on small actions you take before doing something (And I realise im extrapolating to a great degree here) - hence we can assume that normally, experienced fighters can predict movement as well - Just not on the basis of feet alone.

Anyways, Ive written FAR too much. Good day.

chambers

Sun, 05-30-2004, 03:27 PM

no i actually think a lot of that is bullshit. if someone thinks oro is around jounin level because he doesnt have sharingan then hes a fuckin retard. its like saying a football team that cant defend cant win the title.

look at it this way, you dont get to be the BEST at anything by giveing yourself a wide array of training, sure you may be good at everything, but you wont be the best. itachi will OBVIOUSLY focus on his sharingan the same way gai found it easy to concentrate on taijitsu. the same way naruto finds it easyier to base his atacks on high chakra based techniques rather than more precise means.the same way neji based his atacks on his bloodline abilitys.

now i know this is where all those little people start moaning "but itachi wouldnt have been such an amazing ninja by focusing only on one techinque" answer me this: why not? clearly if there were any other uchiha's at his age in school then he was FAR suprior to them, as he was far suprior to all the other in the clan by the age of 16(ish?). so then lest say you have a technique that not ONE SINGLE opponent you will ever face at that age or in any training in the academy or in any kind of exam you will ever take can counter. effectivley you are the most powerfull ninja at that age. now itachi could be autistic and he STILL would have owned every memeber of ANBU just by looking at there eyes. if thats not the case then he can at the very least fight MOST people to a draw situation. so based on that we can see that with the mangekyou sharingan itachi could have done almost anything he wanted. the only people to stand in his way were likley the hokage and the sannin.

now then iam not saying itachi would be useless if you took his sharingan away as it says above. this guy moans claiming that loads of characters dont have sharingan and are class. so then by that reasoning taking guys techniques away wouls have the same effect as it did on oro, in tother words to completley mame him. this is not tha case. if you took the strongest part of ANY character away form them they would be a HELL of a lot weaker. if you take naruto' samazing amount of chakra from him then he would be useless sure he can still do the same things but on a much more limited scale.

now then given that i have PROVED that if you took away itachis biggest weapon he is at a HUGE disadvantage (hes likley been using it his entireadult life). now with out that abiility he has to rely on a more kakashi style of fighting, mimicing movements, ect. now then gai's style has kept him at least level throughout his fights with kakashi, so is it so hard to belive that a fighter using that style to gai and at a similar level to itachi could beat him? logic dictates no, this not only could happen but likley would happen.

Assertn

Sun, 05-30-2004, 03:34 PM

seeing as that the sharingan is more of a tool for developing more jutsus and seeing through other peoples' jutsus....i dont know how one could focus primarily on the sharingan itself

Jessper

Sun, 05-30-2004, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
seeing as that the sharingan is more of a tool for developing more jutsus and seeing through other peoples' jutsus....i dont know how one could focus primarily on the sharingan itself

I agree with assertn here, the Sharingan for everyone but Itachi has been more of a support tool rather than offensive(it was only used that way on zabuza in one fight for non-Itachi sharingans). It is true that Itachi uses it's one(maybe more...) offensive tool often from what we have seen so far but before he knew how to use it he must have done other things(it was implyed that he was good with shruikens) and I don't think he would have simply forgot about those skills and only focused on the Sharingan, but alas we must wait and see =).

Also using the example of oro's techniques being taken away in comparision to disabling the Sharingan is kind of unfair because it took away his arms not just the techniques. Also as you said not looking into the eyes only gave gai about 50% win rate so then if the gai style person was on the same level as itachi he would only have a 50% win rate if we are comparing the two so it's still not that great.

Assertn

Sun, 05-30-2004, 04:21 PM

yes, and there's no point in focusing primarily on something that exhausts your chakra supply after being used on 2 people anyway

Sun, 05-30-2004, 04:24 PM

Gai has for all intents and purposes, a 50% win ratio against Kakashi. (If you discount comments by Kisimoto that those 50/99 wins included rock scissors and paper duels).

If you ignore comments from the creator, I agree, your theory is sound.

i/expressions/rolleye.gif

jing

Sun, 05-30-2004, 05:46 PM

Look at it this way, ITACHI OWNED KURENAI TO HELL WITHOUT USING STUPID MANGEKYOU.

Uchiha-Itachi

Sun, 05-30-2004, 05:52 PM

He didnt need Mangekyou to beat Kurenai since she is a rookie jounin anyways i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

And Mangekyou drains to much stamina/chakra and its Itachi's best offence, so he saves it for strong opponents, cuz how often can he use it? 2/3 times a day or something...

jing

Sun, 05-30-2004, 06:19 PM

so its his best offence now eh............. were are you getting these things..
so he saves it for strong opponents like sasuke ..........
just because it drains the most chakra doesn't mean that it's the strongest jutsu. he is also very skilled in shuriken techniques.

chambers

Sun, 05-30-2004, 06:20 PM

yes jing, and kurenai obviousley had littel to no experince with sharinggan as the first thing she does, is exactley what itachi wanted her to do. she also isnt a taijitsu specialist.

jing

Sun, 05-30-2004, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
yes jing, and kurenai obviousley had littel to no experince with sharinggan as the first thing she does, is exactley what itachi wanted her to do. she also isnt a taijitsu specialist.

were is your post heading???

CyberPunk

Sun, 05-30-2004, 07:20 PM

he's going to say that a taijutsu specialist is the sharingan's weakness, which is complete bullshit. speed, along with blindess are the only weaknesses that are evident in the series. there's also no evidence to show that itachi isn't just as fast, if not faster than the reknown speed demon, gai sensei.

IamSpazzy

Sun, 05-30-2004, 07:22 PM

Actually a really good counter for the sharingan would be the skill that Zazuba from the hidden mist had. He could have an impenetrable fog descend on the area, rendering sight useless. Kakashi wasn't able to do anything with his Sharingan and had to reply on his dogs

CyberPunk

Sun, 05-30-2004, 07:24 PM

that's what i meant by blindness.

Sun, 05-30-2004, 08:48 PM

Well, if you guys remember during the Chuunin Exam when Kabuto was helping Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura and they were trapped and Naruto used his Kage Bunshin No Jutsu + Henge's, Sasuke used his Sharingan and he was able to locate bodies. So blindness wouldnt stop the Sharingan either.

jing

Sun, 05-30-2004, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by: NarutoMaster
Well, if you guys remember during the Chuunin Exam when Kabuto was helping Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura and they were trapped and Naruto used his Kage Bunshin No Jutsu + Henge's, Sasuke used his Sharingan and he was able to locate bodies. So blindness wouldnt stop the Sharingan either.

You don't make sense, Sasuke wasn't blind then, thats why he was able to use it.

Sun, 05-30-2004, 11:56 PM

When you guys said that blindness is the Sharingan's weakness, I thought u meant that you have to make the Sharingan user unable to see his surroundings (like the Kakashi/Zabuza fight). If Sasuke was blind, then yes, his Sharingan would be useless but I thought you meant like having the surrounding area foggy or something that hurts the Sharingan user and has to rely on his other senses or jutsu's.

Mon, 05-31-2004, 01:06 AM

there's also no evidence to show that itachi isn't just as fast, if not faster than the reknown speed demon, gai sensei.

Are you even listening to yourself?

Yes, you're right. There isn't a DAMN bit of evidence to support this.

Jessper

Mon, 05-31-2004, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by: Y The Alien

there's also no evidence to show that itachi isn't just as fast, if not faster than the reknown speed demon, gai sensei.

Are you even listening to yourself?

Yes, you're right. There isn't a DAMN bit of evidence to support this.

I don't get it... I agree with him, we don't know that itachi isn't just as fast as gai(though I don't think we have seen anything to show that gai is fast either but I may be wrong...).

Mon, 05-31-2004, 02:15 AM

Ok, maybe I misread him. I read that as saying there's no reason we shouldn't believe that Itachi's faster than Gai.

Clarification, Cyberpunk?

Uchiha-Itachi

Mon, 05-31-2004, 07:41 AM

Originally posted by: jing
so its his best offence now eh............. were are you getting these things..
so he saves it for strong opponents like sasuke ..........
just because it drains the most chakra doesn't mean that it's the strongest jutsu. he is also very skilled in shuriken techniques.

He used it on Sasuke so he would create more hatred towards Itachi obviously i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

chambers

Mon, 05-31-2004, 09:01 AM

@ jing the way i was going ( i didnt think id have to spell it out for you) is that OF COURSE itachi would own kurenai as she used a genjitsu right? thats what the sharingan is strongest against as it sees right through them. so of course she was going to get OWNED the second she used that attack.

and while there IS evidence to suggest that itachi may be faster than gai (the throwing knives) that doesnt prove tha he would be faster than a taijutsu specialist on his level. its an extrmely safe bet to say that he wouldnt as a specialist would likely focus on speed. if everyone else at his level was as fast then he would be a specialist.

Mon, 05-31-2004, 12:29 PM

this needs to be put to rest. here along comes gai, but now he is as strong as itachi, well he knows he cant look at itachi's eyes so he decides to use his good ol im just gonna look at itachi's sandals strategy. well after seeing ep 85 we now know itachi can use his sharingan so create black flames, and if you think he didnt use his sharingan for that your bullshitting yourself cuz why else would they focus on his eyes? so itachi now can just light up gai and laugh while gai runs around on fire. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

chambers

Mon, 05-31-2004, 01:11 PM

wait a sec, your the exact same person that told me that when it focused on his eyse a few eps ago when he first confronted naruto that it meant nothing!!! double standards this. this is no way on gods green earth you can come to the asumption logically that those black flames were form his sharigan. backing up this theory is the fact jira has never seen them, being from the village himself we would expect him to know about such a technique, considering the fact that konoha seemed so proud of its sharingan eyes. for all intents and purposes it IS just another technique, ok so its a strong one but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sharingan so far. thats like saying the shadow rep is cos of the fox, its bullshit. but the fact reminas that he can still do it...... sharingan or not it seems to be incredibly powerfull especially beacuse jira had to seal it in a scroll.

Jessper

Mon, 05-31-2004, 01:47 PM

Ya Chambers, but you can't assume it isn't from the Sharingan either, during Itachi's battle with kakshi and co on the river it would appear that kakshi was the only one who knew what was comming yet the other two are from the same village.

jing

Mon, 05-31-2004, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
@ jing the way i was going ( i didnt think id have to spell it out for you) is that OF COURSE itachi would own kurenai as she used a genjitsu right? thats what the sharingan is strongest against as it sees right through them. so of course she was going to get OWNED the second she used that attack.

and while there IS evidence to suggest that itachi may be faster than gai (the throwing knives) that doesnt prove tha he would be faster than a taijutsu specialist on his level. its an extrmely safe bet to say that he wouldnt as a specialist would likely focus on speed. if everyone else at his level was as fast then he would be a specialist.

Yes we know all that, I want to know why you said it. She still got owned, and shes jounin. Which makes itachi a super jounin.

When you guys said that blindness is the Sharingan's weakness, I thought u meant that you have to make the Sharingan user unable to see his surroundings (like the Kakashi/Zabuza fight). If Sasuke was blind, then yes, his Sharingan would be useless but I thought you meant like having the surrounding area foggy or something that hurts the Sharingan user and has to rely on his other senses or jutsu's.

you still don't make any sense, the surrounding area wasn't foggy in the forest, that's what he was able to use it. sasuke had no blindness during the exam OR the surrounding. thats why he was able to use it, thats what were trying to say. and kakashi couldnt use his sharingan in the fog because he couldn't see zabuza. get it?

Mut

Mon, 05-31-2004, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
wait a sec, your the exact same person that told me that when it focused on his eyse a few eps ago when he first confronted naruto that it meant nothing!!! double standards this. this is no way on gods green earth you can come to the asumption logically that those black flames were form his sharigan. backing up this theory is the fact jira has never seen them, being from the village himself we would expect him to know about such a technique, considering the fact that konoha seemed so proud of its sharingan eyes. for all intents and purposes it IS just another technique, ok so its a strong one but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sharingan so far. thats like saying the shadow rep is cos of the fox, its bullshit. but the fact reminas that he can still do it...... sharingan or not it seems to be incredibly powerfull especially beacuse jira had to seal it in a scroll.

dude. i don't understand you at all. i'm gonna explain the two different eye focuses. ok when the animators focused on itachi's eyes when naruto opened the door, that was to show that naruto was confused about who it was. they had naruto say 'wtf, he has the same sharingan as sasuke but it's not him' or something like that to make it even more clearer that mangekyou sharingan wasn't used. but when itachi was escaping from the toad's mouth and it focused on his eyes, he clearly used mangekyou sharingan right there. notice how everytime itachi used mangekyou sharingan, they showed that he closed his eyes for a few seconds before and then opened and there was a specific sound effect. from that we know amaterasu is a jutsu performed via mangekyou sharingan. chambers, just trust me.

and someone said that itachi without sharingan would be just a regular guy. well, that's completely unfair. i can say this, gai without his taijutsu abilities would be complete garbage.

chambers

Mon, 05-31-2004, 03:28 PM

well unless your statement

Look at it this way, ITACHI OWNED KURENAI TO HELL WITHOUT USING STUPID MANGEKYOU was just thrown in randomly it would apear to be a swipe taken at the fact that a jounin ANT jounin could defeat itachi. but of course he OWNED kurenai, because she was using a technique he was strong against. where as perhaps if she used someting he was weak against then it may not have been 100% one sided.

jing

Mon, 05-31-2004, 05:20 PM

I think someone mentioned that Itachi is useless without sharingan. So i had to say that he didn't really use mangekyou against kurenai. kurenai is a leaf jounin too. (leaf jounins are strong). believe me itachi willl still own her without sharingan, all he did was counter genjutsu.

CyberPunk

Mon, 05-31-2004, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by: Y The Alien
Ok, maybe I misread him. I read that as saying there's no reason we shouldn't believe that Itachi's faster than Gai.

Clarification, Cyberpunk?

yea, i meant that there's no evidence to support one of them being faster than the other.

random

Mon, 05-31-2004, 06:43 PM

just some thoughts:

he countered kurenai's genjutsu after seeing through it with his sharingan... so it doesn't necessarily mean that he can own her without sharingan.... if he couldn't see through the genjutsu then he might not have been able to counter it... he can own her without MANGEKYOU SHARINGAN.. cuz he did... but he used his sharingan as an advantage tos ee through her genjutsu... without sharingan eyes he would be... like kisame... a high S rank individual... which a jounin could put some fight against... though not a definate win for either side.... (Naruto has a lot of underdogs winning over seemingly stronger people)

which leads me to my other thought... if gai isn't affected by the Mangekyou Sharingan.. then he has some type of advantage... if itachi had no sharingan at all... it would be like my example with kurenai.... itachi would just be an S ranked individual like kisame... but without the mangekyou sharingan... he still has his normal see-through-pretty-much-anything sharingan and his S rank ninja skills.... just minus one super strong technique.... gai would still have to deal with all of that giving him less of a chance of winning.... however it doesn't give itachi a sure 100% win... and like i said in Naruto... it seems like the underdog sometimes wins over seemingly stronger opponents... so give gai some credit

as for my thoughts on people focusing on their best technique... well its pretty obvious that itachi has focused on his sharingan techniques... he had to get the stamina to use mangekyou multiple times(like sasuke practices with chidori)... he had to practice to learn the black fire thing(without practicing a jutsu... u can't develop one)... so he must have focused on his sharingan training... that said ... at his age... which is what.... at the most somewhere in his late 20's... it is highly doubtful that he is top ranked (the best) in every single category unless he spent all of his waking hours practicing ninjutsu taijutsu genjutsu and everything... so there IS a possibility that gai's taijutsu and speed could be on par if not better than itachi's...

I honestly didn't read every single comment because that's 11 pages of mostly flames... but I'm not taking any sides... I think that there are a lot of good points made here... itachi is still skilled at a lot of other things so he shouldn't be assumed helpless without sharingan... but without his mangekyou sharingan (which would have given him an automatic win against gai) he does not have a 100% chance of winning... he said himself to not underestimate gai... if he knew he could own him without even trying he wouldn't have said that...

CyberPunk

Mon, 05-31-2004, 06:54 PM

don't forget that itachi is a genius ninja. he wouldn't need to spend much time on his taijutsu training to get the results that would take regular ninjas years to get. much like sasuke and rock lee. rock lee trained for many years to get the speed he can move without his weights where as sasuke reached that in under a month.

Mut

Mon, 05-31-2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by: random
just some thoughts:

he countered kurenai's genjutsu after seeing through it with his sharingan... so it doesn't necessarily mean that he can own her without sharingan.... if he couldn't see through the genjutsu then he might not have been able to counter it... he can own her without MANGEKYOU SHARINGAN.. cuz he did... but he used his sharingan as an advantage tos ee through her genjutsu... without sharingan eyes he would be... like kisame... a high S rank individual... which a jounin could put some fight against... though not a definate win for either side.... (Naruto has a lot of underdogs winning over seemingly stronger people)

which leads me to my other thought... if gai isn't affected by the Mangekyou Sharingan.. then he has some type of advantage... if itachi had no sharingan at all... it would be like my example with kurenai.... itachi would just be an S ranked individual like kisame... but without the mangekyou sharingan... he still has his normal see-through-pretty-much-anything sharingan and his S rank ninja skills.... just minus one super strong technique.... gai would still have to deal with all of that giving him less of a chance of winning.... however it doesn't give itachi a sure 100% win... and like i said in Naruto... it seems like the underdog sometimes wins over seemingly stronger opponents... so give gai some credit

as for my thoughts on people focusing on their best technique... well its pretty obvious that itachi has focused on his sharingan techniques... he had to get the stamina to use mangekyou multiple times(like sasuke practices with chidori)... he had to practice to learn the black fire thing(without practicing a jutsu... u can't develop one)... so he must have focused on his sharingan training... that said ... at his age... which is what.... at the most somewhere in his late 20's... it is highly doubtful that he is top ranked (the best) in every single category unless he spent all of his waking hours practicing ninjutsu taijutsu genjutsu and everything... so there IS a possibility that gai's taijutsu and speed could be on par if not better than itachi's...

I honestly didn't read every single comment because that's 11 pages of mostly flames... but I'm not taking any sides... I think that there are a lot of good points made here... itachi is still skilled at a lot of other things so he shouldn't be assumed helpless without sharingan... but without his mangekyou sharingan (which would have given him an automatic win against gai) he does not have a 100% chance of winning... he said himself to not underestimate gai... if he knew he could own him without even trying he wouldn't have said that...

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

itachi without his sharingan would not just be a regular s-ranked criminal like kisame (side note: just because someone is a s-ranked criminal that doesn't mean they are strong).

if gai isn't affected by mangekyou sharingan, he wouldn't have any advantage. you're saying things as if gai is uneffected by the actual sharingan itself. gai ultimately puts himself at an advantage cuz he can only look at the opponents' feet.

and itachi is 17 years old. and you say that without his mangekyou sharingan, he doesn't have a 100% chance of winning... well, he clearly kicked kurenai's ass without mangekyou sharingan, so what you say doesn't really work. and gai told kisame to not underestimate him. don't get that confused.

random

Mon, 05-31-2004, 07:21 PM

s ranked criminal... i meant s ranked in skill....... as in really good with different techniques....... you didn't read what I said .. here let me post the part again

"which leads me to my other thought... if gai isn't affected by the Mangekyou Sharingan.. then he has some type of advantage... if itachi had no sharingan at all... it would be like my example with kurenai.... itachi would just be an S ranked individual like kisame... but without the mangekyou sharingan... he still has his normal see-through-pretty-much-anything sharingan and his S rank ninja skills.... just minus one super strong technique.... gai would still have to deal with all of that giving him less of a chance of winning.... however it doesn't give itachi a sure 100% win... and like i said in Naruto... it seems like the underdog sometimes wins over seemingly stronger opponents... so give gai some credit"

meaning without mangekyou sharingan itachi loses his 100% victory... if you read it i mentioned that he still has his normal sharingan eyes which gai would still have to deal with...... if gai looking at onyl feet was a complete disadvantage he wouldn't even win against kakashi... but he can... because he is skilled with taijutsu and has learned to predict things.... therefore it DOES work

he kicked kurenai's ass because he still has S ranked abilities (as in high level ninja skills) plus kurenai is not a specialist in ninjutsu.. she used a genjutsu which was easily countered by the normal sharingan eyes... what i said makes sense... he DOESN'T have 100% chance winning... that's like saying... he can own anyone on naruto... why would you have a character that can not be defeated by anyone or even matched by anyone... or even have anyone put upa decent fight... that's like saying itachi is god... his mangekyou sharingan is what gives him the sure win.. because nobody (at this point) can counter it... take that away... he just has sharingan which can be dealt with... although with some degree of difficulty... so my point that he does not have a 100% guaranteed win still makes sense... maybe 99% win... maybe even less... maybe even just a "highly likely" but he does NOT have a 100% chance of winning if his mangekyou sharingan is disabled...

ond ok.. itachi is 17 years old... that further supports that he has had far less time in his life to aquire supreme mastery of every technique there is... genius or not... it doesn't put him so far above every character that he can whoop all their asses.... so like i said... gai deserves some credit because he can put some fight against itachi...

edit.... itachi telling kisame not to underestimate gai still shows that itachi thinks highly of gai..... if itachi is telling a criminal with S ranked (high level) techniques to not underestimate a jounin.. then that jounin must be able to put up a fight against someone of that rank... though itachi still has sharingan.. which is difficult to deal with... his level of ninja techniques should be around the same level of kisame maybe a little more.. but still around the same level.... if gai can put a fight up against kisame... he can probably put up a fight against itachi... but itachi's eyes give him more advantage giving gai less of a chance of winning... but it doesn't mean itachi has a definate win.... people slip up... someone can be caught by surprise... etc etc... since gais technique eliminates itachi's only sure fire(as in.... no matter what you do if i use this technique you lose) way of winning... gai prevents him from having 100% victory...

Mut

Mon, 05-31-2004, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by: random
s ranked criminal... i meant s ranked in skill....... as in really good with different techniques....... you didn't read what I said .. here let me post the part again

"which leads me to my other thought... if gai isn't affected by the Mangekyou Sharingan.. then he has some type of advantage... if itachi had no sharingan at all... it would be like my example with kurenai.... itachi would just be an S ranked individual like kisame... but without the mangekyou sharingan... he still has his normal see-through-pretty-much-anything sharingan and his S rank ninja skills.... just minus one super strong technique.... gai would still have to deal with all of that giving him less of a chance of winning.... however it doesn't give itachi a sure 100% win... and like i said in Naruto... it seems like the underdog sometimes wins over seemingly stronger opponents... so give gai some credit"

meaning without mangekyou sharingan itachi loses his 100% victory... if you read it i mentioned that he still has his normal sharingan eyes which gai would still have to deal with...... if gai looking at onyl feet was a complete disadvantage he wouldn't even win against kakashi... but he can... because he is skilled with taijutsu and has learned to predict things.... therefore it DOES work

he kicked kurenai's ass because he still has S ranked abilities (as in high level ninja skills) plus kurenai is not a specialist in ninjutsu.. she used a genjutsu which was easily countered by the normal sharingan eyes... what i said makes sense... he DOESN'T have 100% chance winning... that's like saying... he can own anyone on naruto... why would you have a character that can not be defeated by anyone or even matched by anyone... or even have anyone put upa decent fight... that's like saying itachi is god... his mangekyou sharingan is what gives him the sure win.. because nobody (at this point) can counter it... take that away... he just has sharingan which can be dealt with... although with some degree of difficulty... so my point that he does not have a 100% guaranteed win still makes sense... maybe 99% win... maybe even less... maybe even just a "highly likely" but he does NOT have a 100% chance of winning if his mangekyou sharingan is disabled...

ond ok.. itachi is 17 years old... that further supports that he has had far less time in his life to aquire supreme mastery of every technique there is... genius or not... it doesn't put him so far above every character that he can whoop all their asses.... so like i said... gai deserves some credit because he can put some fight against itachi...

edit.... itachi telling kisame not to underestimate gai still shows that itachi thinks highly of gai..... if itachi is telling a criminal with S ranked (high level) techniques to not underestimate a jounin.. then that jounin must be able to put up a fight against someone of that rank... though itachi still has sharingan.. which is difficult to deal with... his level of ninja techniques should be around the same level of kisame maybe a little more.. but still around the same level.... if gai can put a fight up against kisame... he can probably put up a fight against itachi... but itachi's eyes give him more advantage giving gai less of a chance of winning... but it doesn't mean itachi has a definate win.... people slip up... someone can be caught by surprise... etc etc... since gais technique eliminates itachi's only sure fire(as in.... no matter what you do if i use this technique you lose) way of winning... gai prevents him from having 100% victory...

LOL dude... you are SO on so many parts, it's not even funny. i hope someone else can tell you this too. i'll post later.

Assertn

Mon, 05-31-2004, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by: -Sharingan-Kakashi-
this needs to be put to rest.

thats what my poll was for i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

yvliew

Mon, 05-31-2004, 11:28 PM

made my own sharingan.. lol

Mon, 05-31-2004, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by: chambers
wait a sec, your the exact same person that told me that when it focused on his eyse a few eps ago when he first confronted naruto that it meant nothing!!! double standards this. this is no way on gods green earth you can come to the asumption logically that those black flames were form his sharigan. backing up this theory is the fact jira has never seen them, being from the village himself we would expect him to know about such a technique, considering the fact that konoha seemed so proud of its sharingan eyes. for all intents and purposes it IS just another technique, ok so its a strong one but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sharingan so far. thats like saying the shadow rep is cos of the fox, its bullshit. but the fact reminas that he can still do it...... sharingan or not it seems to be incredibly powerfull especially beacuse jira had to seal it in a scroll.

wtf are you talking about you stupid little liar, i never said it focused on his eyes for nothing. your always making up shit and putting words into peoples mouths. LOGICALLY, which is an area we know you lack in chambers, the reason they closed in on his eyes would be to show it was a sharingan technique. isnt it possible that Itachi discovered or developed a new technique for his sharingan? or maybe its such a powerful technique not many have seen it.