Episode 84 Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Terracosmo]

So what's the common opinion on the (litterary) bloody past of Sasuke & stuff? Gogogo!

EXCELLENT EPISODE!

[chambers]

sasuke past= bollocks.
jira=amazing

i thought they would have given a better justification for itachi killing everyone. i mean why stop with his clan? why not test kisame? it make sno sense.

[SK]

yeah i think its just because itachi is an evil bastard. if he wanted to test his strenght so much he could do it by fighting missing nins and stuff. good ep

[Uchiha Barles]

What you saw was what Sasuke saw, and his interpretation of the whole thing. More than likely, at some point in the future they're going to show Itachi's version of what actually occured. Sure he probably killed them all, but when you hear what he has to say, there'll be a more in depth explanation of why he did what he did.

As for Sasuke, any dislike I had of him is totally gone. I always thought he was the man, but always hated his attitude at the same time. I'm aware that people don't just get that way for no reason, but when I saw what actually happened, things became more real. This episode reaffirms my faith in the Naruto series. Incredible!


v Sasuke was normal once...who knew?! v

[Aeon]

It was a great episode, and I still say Itachi is innocent it just doesn't add up to me. If he really wanted to test himself why not fight the 3rd? I got a question though since Sauske didn't use any hand seals to form chidori, does that still mean that Itachi copied it?

[Outtawack311]

Extremely Good episode, I am still AMAZED at the talent these writers have for going through 20 minute shows and getting almost nothing new done.

Dont get me wrong I liked the episode. I just wish they woulda shortened the flashback (we knew almost all of it already) and got some storyline done. Everything that happened in that episode we knew already, except about the Samehada. I still think they need to take a page from Animes like FMA and get at least a little done every episode.

Extremely Good episode though. What was Jiraiya trying to say about women being merry?!?!?

[SK]

Originally posted by: Aeon
It was a great episode, and I still say Itachi is innocent it just doesn't add up to me. If he really wanted to test himself why not fight the 3rd? I got a question though since Sauske didn't use any hand seals to form chidori, does that still mean that Itachi copied it?

are you serious? after he stabbed kakashi with swords for 72 hours, broke sasuke's wrist, and wiped out the clan? man you must really like him

[Mut]

he didn't fight the 3rd cuz he didn't want to get killed. cmon now.

[Y]

It was a great episode, and I still say Itachi is innocent it just doesn't add up to me

That is some ridiculous crap right there.

[Uchiha Barles]

I think that episode was as well done as the best episodes this series has to offer. The flashback was just long enough, letting you know that Sasuke was not only normal, but likeable once, that there was a decent relationship between the brothers, and the rest of the time was used to show what Sasuke saw, and make it extremely dramatic. Bullseye. And they did get something done. Jiraiya is there and proven to NOT be an idiot, they reminded us of the differences between people at Naruto and Sasuke's level, and Itachi and Fish head's level (which was needed considering one of the other threads that's going right now), and they showed Itachi to be cold bastard, making him even cooler. It's the perfect set up for what's to come. This series owns.

[Krbadass]

Good ep.

[Beautiful Green Beast]

Im not kidding if im saying this was one of the best episodes so far. The Sasuke flashback really touched me and at the same time, there was some action to involved. The music was great and Itachi truelly is strange.

[NomoZ]

Itachi was testing himself to see if he was the best of the Uchiha Clan, because they were considered to be the greatest clan in Konoha.

Plus that ep just rocked, except i dont like kisame's sword(how it eats chakra), i find that to be a little cheap.

[Shinoro]

Excellent episode, I'd love to see Itachi's side of the story though as to why he killed his clan off.

Did anyone see how quicly Naruto was able to summon chakra from the Kyuubi? He didn't even have to use all of his natural chakra in order to get it, I was really surprised about that, and stunned no one else picked up on it.

I think what Jiraiya was saying about women, in the fact that they don't know him, is that he figured out that woman was a scam they deployed to Jiraiya to get him away from Naruto so they could come kill Naruto. I think the translation was kind of rough there, but he's basically saying at his age he knows how women really are. I could be wrong there, I need to watch it a couple more times.

But again, great episode, set up 85 really well.

EDIT:
Itachi's character looks awesome during the flashback, especially when he's staring at Sasuke after killing their parents.

[immortality]

good ep..though they could have gotten a little short on the flashback..come on..15 minutes..almost...thats 6 minutes just for the stuff..but still a good episode...too bad naruto got like scared....didnt he ever learn not to listen to strangers...i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[SK]

yeah i noticed how fast he summoned kyubi's chakra, it was hard not to, all the red swirling around him...anyway what i think jiraiya meant was he doesnt need to go after women, that women flock to him, but i could be wrong.

[jing]

Originally posted by: chambers
sasuke past= bollocks.
jira=amazing

i thought they would have given a better justification for itachi killing everyone. i mean why stop with his clan? why not test kisame? it make sno sense.

Because Kisame is his sex mate duh.

[NomoZ]

Originally posted by: jing


Originally posted by: chambers
sasuke past= bollocks.
jira=amazing

i thought they would have given a better justification for itachi killing everyone. i mean why stop with his clan? why not test kisame? it make sno sense.

Because Kisame is his sex mate duh.

OMG GROW UP

[Gods_Son]

Another good episode.

v The homosexuality shit is just getting stupid, Itachi has nothing to do with it v

[SK]

maybe he killed his parents because they didnt approve of his gayness i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif im j/k btw, before the itachi fans come and flame me. well now we know why sasuke is such an asshole, id probably be all fucked up to if i had to go through something like that.

[jing]

Originally posted by: NomoZ


Originally posted by: jing


Originally posted by: chambers
sasuke past= bollocks.
jira=amazing

i thought they would have given a better justification for itachi killing everyone. i mean why stop with his clan? why not test kisame? it make sno sense.

Because Kisame is his sex mate duh.

OMG GROW UP

ok. PARTY POOPER!

[ShinobiNeko]

(^_^) I thought it was a really good episode. Even t hough the flashback was quite long, at least it was interesting to see how all that played out, but like others have stated, I really would like to see Itachi's side of the story as to why he did that. To me seems there is more to it than just a measuring stick, to remember him saying it was 'important' that he did so...so I wonder what made it so important...I haven't read much of the manga, but that makes me wonder, like was he in the Akatsuki back then and maybe that was some task he had to do...who knows, can't wait till they explain more ^^

[orn210]

the episode was awesome and really good drawing anyway next episode is gonna rock

[tensai]

good episode
explains a lot about sasuke, but i also agree that the flashback took too long
it was wierd how easily itachi killed everyone, it looked like the rest of the uchiha clan didn't even try
and i dont truly buy the "to test myself" bullshit, why would he test himself by killing his grandparents who looked helpless, just wierd.
damn, itachi deflecting the chidori like that was cool, and i also thought the samehada stealing chakra was cheap too
kisame wanting to cut off narutos limbs, hahaha. what happened to itachis "dont cause a commotion" attitude
i liked how jiraiya showed up, they made it look like Naruto summoned the frog
next ep looks like a good one, cant wait

[NomoZ]

Originally posted by: ShinobiNeko
I really would like to see Itachi's side of the story as to why he did that. To me seems there is more to it than just a measuring stick, to remember him saying it was 'important' that he did so...so I wonder what made it so important...

I think that's all he wanted to do, and the reason it was important to him is because he had to know if he was the strongest, and what better place to start with than the most powerful clan in the village. Considering he's part of a group that is searching for ways to become more and more powerful, I think he's obsessed with strength.

[Jchiang87]

good thing kisame's sword stopped naruto from summoning gamabunta.



summoning 100ft toads indoors of a hotel in a crowded town is not a good thing.


naruto isn't too bright :x

and neither is sasuke, as gai and rock lee explained during the exams, chidori is just a straight thrust, someone with sharingan can see it from a mile away, itachi probably couldve just moved out the way and push sasuke so his chidori would go right through naruto, that wouldve sucked :x


also i watch bakafish ver and i have no idea wth jiraiya was talking about at the end

[gokudagreat]

I think half of what Jiraiya was trying to say (and the translation was poor on this part) was that at his age no women of her beauty would just come up to him and start flirting... and the few that would he could interpret them really well with his "studies"

I dont think Itachi is innocent at all, but there definitely has to be more than "testing himself" to it... first of all he killed grandparents and women... those he KNEW he was better than already... and he kept Sasuke alive... I still think if youve played FFX you know how sin i.e. Jecht wants Tidus to kill him cause he wants to be put out of his misery, but no one is powerful to do it so he wants Tidus to become powerful enough... I think its the same with Itachi... he is really wants to die but he wants to do it by the hands of someone else (Sasuke) and that way someone will finally be better than him... maybe hes also bored cause hes so much better than everyone that no ones a challenge and he wants Sasuke to be that challenge

[SK]

why doesnt he let gravity kill him then?

[gokudagreat]

Well what im saying is he wants to die by someone elses hands.. or something like that... it just seems typical of like a tragic villain who actually just wants to be put out of his misery i might be totally off but i dunno

[Uchiha Barles]

Maybe Sasuke has a goal, and that goal requires him to be colder than ice. If so, killing his own clan was a test of that. He's might be one of the "destroy the world for the good of humanity" types.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: gokudagreat
I think half of what Jiraiya was trying to say (and the translation was poor on this part) was that at his age no women of her beauty would just come up to him and start flirting... and the few that would he could interpret them really well with his "studies"

I dont think Itachi is innocent at all, but there definitely has to be more than "testing himself" to it... first of all he killed grandparents and women... those he KNEW he was better than already... and he kept Sasuke alive... I still think if youve played FFX you know how sin i.e. Jecht wants Tidus to kill him cause he wants to be put out of his misery, but no one is powerful to do it so he wants Tidus to become powerful enough... I think its the same with Itachi... he is really wants to die but he wants to do it by the hands of someone else (Sasuke) and that way someone will finally be better than him... maybe hes also bored cause hes so much better than everyone that no ones a challenge and he wants Sasuke to be that challenge

man, people always try to make big deal out of the littlest things.

what jiraiya said is basically this: "i am a pimp and i can see right through the fake hoes."

that's it.

and how can itachi not be innocent... what other possibility is there? who else could've killed all those uchihas? yeah, there were bunch of shitty uchihas but i'm sure there were also good ones. at the end, i guess itachi was the best one. and itachi probably didn't bother killing anyone else cuz he knows that only a full blooded uchiha can defeat another uchiha since no one can stand up to his mangekyou sharingan.

[logic]

Noone flame me, because this is a sincere question and i'm hesitant in asking it, because of all the itachi/sharingan fan-freaks.

The sharingan has the ability to copy anothers abilities when its seen, does this have to be triggered by the sharingan user, or is it automatic.. i.e. gaaras sand defense.

Also, if it was automatic or semi-automatic, does this mean sauske could theoretically have copied the mangekyou sharingan (kaleidoscope)

And please, if your answering based on a THEORY you have, please tell me its your theory, and if its factual, tell me as well.

[Wassup Doc]

Is it me or is Itachi a bit too old in the flashback . He looks older than Sasuke at the same age.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: logic
Noone flame me, because this is a sincere question and i'm hesitant in asking it, because of all the itachi/sharingan fan-freaks.

The sharingan has the ability to copy anothers abilities when its seen, does this have to be triggered by the sharingan user, or is it automatic.. i.e. gaaras sand defense.

Also, if it was automatic or semi-automatic, does this mean sauske could theoretically have copied the mangekyou sharingan (kaleidoscope)

And please, if your answering based on a THEORY you have, please tell me its your theory, and if its factual, tell me as well.

no one knows for sure if sharingan can copy jutsus automatically.

theory: i assume that it's not automatic and its user can only copy what he/she wants to copy.

fact: we know for sure that kakashi's sharingan (which is an implant) must be covered by his forehead protector to prevent it from being 'active.' unlike itachi, kakashi's sharingan uses up chakra no matter what unless it is covered.

no one knows if kakashi's sharingan automatically copies things or not, but i think it's same as itachi's or sasuke's, it copies what its user wants to copy. the only problem for kakashi is that he can't turn off his sharingan so he covers it up from consuming chakra.

fact: sasuke can't copy mangekyou sharingan. his sharingan is not developed enough.

theory: another reason why sasuke can't copy it is because it's an advanced bloodline technique. yes, it's the uchiha bloodline technique, but it's still an advanced bloodline technique no matter what.

[viciousHyuuga]

maybe it was a royal rumble.. to see the next leader of the uchiha clan =) or maybe if u kill a uchiha member u gain his or her powers.. or maybe it was a group dispute, cause how many did he have to fight was it 50 on 1 or what..
or maybe itachi has a alter ego(maybe like fight club altar ego).. ither way he did it.


but i dont see motive, he had potential to be 5th hokage + if he wanted to check his strength he could of just raped other stronger ninjas or something,

[MemnochTheCaT]

Yeah Itachi's stated reason 'to test my strength' .. is COMPLETELY lame .. we didn't see any strong Uchiha in the flashback, they all looked like Genin or weaker to me, and he goes around killing the elderly? LMAO what a loser... it's gonna be really nice to see Itachi get killed eventually i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

As several people have said, if he wanted to test his strength, he should have challenged the 3rd, or Jiraiya .. oh wait, I forgot .. he's too weak i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Krbadass]

The other Uchiha weren't weak... don't underestimate them.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Lol then what did they do exactly? We see NOTHING in those flashbacks .. but gimp-level ninja falling dead without even performing a credible attack... Maybe the animators were lazy, but beating up a bunch of weaklings and old people hardly impresses me ..

Unless you can point me to something they showed from ANY of the other Uchiha that would even faze Naruto at this point i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Mut]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Yeah Itachi's stated reason 'to test my strength' .. is COMPLETELY lame .. we didn't see any strong Uchiha in the flashback, they all looked like Genin or weaker to me, and he goes around killing the elderly? LMAO what a loser... it's gonna be really nice to see Itachi get killed eventually i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

As several people have said, if he wanted to test his strength, he should have challenged the 3rd, or Jiraiya .. oh wait, I forgot .. he's too weak i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

this is absolutely dumb. sorry he was only TWELVE years old and wasn't a kage or one of the sannin.

[LostAngel]

Great episode.. I knew Jiriaya didn't fall for something like that!! Only thing that bugged me was Kisames damn sword eating chakra. He just swung it close to Naruto to suck his chakra in... thats a pretty invisible thing right there. Still everyones chakra they can't fight. He could of done that to Kakashi, Asume (think thats his name), I mean it was bad ass but just a little blah to me. The preview for the next one omg looks awesome looks like someones insides they are running through. I wonder what that was.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Yeah Itachi's stated reason 'to test my strength' .. is COMPLETELY lame .. we didn't see any strong Uchiha in the flashback, they all looked like Genin or weaker to me, and he goes around killing the elderly? LMAO what a loser... it's gonna be really nice to see Itachi get killed eventually i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

As several people have said, if he wanted to test his strength, he should have challenged the 3rd, or Jiraiya .. oh wait, I forgot .. he's too weak i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

this is absolutely dumb. sorry he was only TWELVE years old and wasn't a kage or one of the sannin.

Still doesn't make any sense to me, 'testing' your strength against a bunch of people who really posed no challenge at all, and ignoring people who WERE actually powerful .. sort of defeats the purpose. Not to mention, how is killing old people a challenge?

I used to not mind Itachi much, but after seeing him in anime form I absolutely hate him .. he's the whole reason we have to put up with Sasuke being a whiny bitch for practically the entire series i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

[Mut]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Still doesn't make any sense to me, 'testing' your strength against a bunch of people who really posed no challenge at all, and ignoring people who WERE actually powerful .. sort of defeats the purpose. Not to mention, how is killing old people a challenge?

I used to not mind Itachi much, but after seeing him in anime form I absolutely hate him .. he's the whole reason we have to put up with Sasuke being a whiny bitch for practically the entire series i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

ok... well i'm sure there were people who were very strong in the uchiha clan. they weren't noted as one of the most powerful and feared clan in konoha for nothing. old people thing, i didn't get either, but i think he just killed them cuz they might run off and alert everyone. i'm not too sure about that.

he did ignore some very strong people, but i think he did it cuz he knew he'd get his ass beat. i mean like i'm sure even kakashi could've rocked itachi's ass. no point in trying to fight someone who is clearly stronger than you are... you'd rather live and become stronger.

and i don't know why everyone hates sasuke so much. i am more annoyed with naruto being annoying with his 'i'ma be the hokage' motivational crap. yeah, i know it's his series and all, he's waaay more annoying than sasuke.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Hehe well that's fair, with the obvious respect the Uchiha name has .. there HAD to have been some strong ones, I just wish we had been able to see them in the flashbacks.

And yes, Naruto CAN be a bit annoying with his endless repeating of his goals, but it doesn't seem like he does it *quite* as much as he used to heheheh.

I can only hope that Itachi has other, as-yet-unknown, motivations for his actions, because his STATED reason just doesn't add up .. particularly since no one in the clan really posed a challenge. I mean, it would be like Mike Tyson deciding to test his strength on a bunch of grade-schoolers and then taking off to Paraguay or something ... wait .. Mike Tyson actually might be that crazy IRL i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[XwingRob]

Originally posted by: Shinoro

Did anyone see how quicly Naruto was able to summon chakra from the Kyuubi? He didn't even have to use all of his natural chakra in order to get it, I was really surprised about that, and stunned no one else picked up on it.



Remember, Naruto and Kyuubis' chakras are merging as time passes. So therefore, it should be easier for Naruto to summon up the Kyuubi chakra.

Edit: I also beleived that whenever Naruto summons Kyubbi's chakra, it accelerates the merging process. Maybe soon in the future Naruto might start experiencing "side-effects" because of it.

[logic]

You don't get the old people part?

.............

3rd.. how old was he?

Older you get, you grow weaker, but you gain techniques and experience.

Knowledge is power, and elders have more of that knowledge from life experiences.

Also, Mut@t@, i'm impressed with the way you can answer questions and what have you based on what the anime has presented so far. I know you've read the manga, but it seems that you never reveal anything that hasn't been shown yet.

Impressed and appreciatory.

[MemnochTheCaT]

The old people part .. where Sasuke's grandparents were just standing there .. is what we were talking about i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif How is executing an old couple a 'test' of power?

[Mae]

Do not underestimate old people!

Come on, how old was the 3rd when he fought? Old just means more experience as a ninja. Also, the only fighting we saw in the flashback was the illusion that Itachi summoned up. I bet things were a little harder for him than THAT.

[MemnochTheCaT]

I'm not underestimating old people lol .. just that MOST of them aren't like the 3rd. Sasuke's grandparents just stood there ... REAL intimidating huh?

[Uchiha Barles]

Heh, I said this earlier, but maybe it's not a test of power so much as it's a test of coldness. It's complete speculation, but it's happened in other stories before that someone would do something like that just to make sure they're capable of it. Might be related to his ultimate goals.

[SK]

so how old was itachi in the flashback? i was thinking he was like 14 or something because he was made anbu captain at 13 right? so wouldent this be after he was made an anbu captain. and i agree they didnt seem to show any strong ninja in the clan, and who was the leader of the uchiha clan at that time? was it sasuke's family?

[Mae]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
I'm not underestimating old people lol .. just that MOST of them aren't like the 3rd. Sasuke's grandparents just stood there ... REAL intimidating huh?

As I said, the scene with Itachi killing his grandparents and the rest of the Uchiha so easily was an illusion that he made up for Sasuke just to torture him, not what actually happened.

We don't know what really happened in his fight. I suspect that everyone was so shocked to see their grandson, nephew, whatever relation come at them with a knife that they weren't really able to fight back decently before being killed.

I agree that instead of a test of physical strength it may have been a test of mental strength, or "coldness" as Barles said. Although killing your entire family just to show what an emotionless badass you are...damn. And I STILL don't know why he let Sasuke live.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Exactly, it doesn't add up logically .. testing 'coldness' doesn't make sense, if you are a highly trained ninja you probably know EXACTLY what choices you are capable of making. If you exist to be an elite tool of warfare, espionage, and death .. would there be any doubt that you could execute anyone you chose to?

(A)- Killing your clan is a pretty dumb test of strength, when there are more challenging opponents out there to provide a credible challenge. When Sasuke came across Itachi, Itachi was completely uninjured, and had enough chakra left (at his younger age!) to do Mange Sharingan on him .. that basically means the whole Uchiha clan posed VERY little threat to him ..

(B)- Why leave Sasuke alive? Didn't seem like he cared about him anyway .. maybe he just wanted a witness to tell the rest of Konoha who had done it, so that he would be pursued by hunter-nins (maybe his idea of a REAL challenge?).

(C)- Maybe the images he played back to Sasuke are not real .. this plays into a few different theories that have made their rounds where Itachi may possibly not be what he pretends to be.

The thing that bothers me, is that Itachi *seems* to be more intelligent than what his decisions might lead one to believe, it would be nice if there IS some currently unknown motivations and plot info that we don't know already .. because if Itachi ONLY wanted to test his strength, and left Sasuke to be an annoying bitch for the entire series .. then that's just incredibly lame. Bring on the rest of Akatsuki if that's the case ..

[tensai]

i was wondering, in konoha, does each clan have their own little section to live in, because the uchiha seemed like they had a neighborhood all to themselves?
during the flashback, when sasuke just gets off of school, they somewhat show the kaleidescope sharingan (i think) when itachi was standing on the top of the pole, then he disappears. it could have seemed like that was some genjutsu or something used on sasuke, but i dont really know. or maybe it was to lead sasuke to see the death of his parents. His parents, i think, were the last ones of the uchiha to be killed so sasuke can witness their death

[Eurasian]

itachi probably wanted to push sasuke to become stronger, so sasuke might become a worthy rival. maybe he sees potential...okay, i'm making itachi sound like a good guy...but that's not what i meant. Even if itachi can do he nifty technique, i'm sure other uchihas can do it as well. i thinki they were just taken by surprise that someone of their own blood would do that do them.

This is my 1st post. i'm glad to join the family.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Welcome to Gotwoot i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[Stægan]

i also think over half the episode with flashbacks is to mutch



something to think about wiht the nine tails chakra.......he was molding chakra in the room for some time

[Mut]

i think the reason why he tested his strength on his own clan was to test out his mangekyou sharingan. from the looks of it, his sharingan deactivates as soon as mangekyou sharingan is performed so i guess itachi is in the process of mastering the technique.

anyway, i thought itachi was 12 when he massacred his own clan, but it says that he was anbu at 13. if he did do it at 12, then i guess he would've left the village right after therefor, not being able to receive anbu status. this is really weird because during the flash back, sasuke says that he is the same as age itachi when itachi graduated (7). which would mean that itachi was 12 since they are 5 years apart cuz sasuke is or should be 12 right now. but i guess itachi could've been 13 if one year has passed since the first episode til now.

also, i think there is a bigger reason to killing his clan than just 'testing his strength.' i kind of felt like he had another motive when he said 'it's important' (AA trans). i don't think it's completely different than to 'test his strength' but i think it branches off from that motive.



Originally posted by: logic
Also, Mut@t@, i'm impressed with the way you can answer questions and what have you based on what the anime has presented so far. I know you've read the manga, but it seems that you never reveal anything that hasn't been shown yet.

Impressed and appreciatory.
i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Luchio]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Killing your clan is a pretty dumb test of strength, when there are more challenging opponents out there to provide a credible challenge.
Maybe it's not a good test of physical strength, but it's a good test of mental strength. Maybe he had to do it (kill his family) to enter the evil organization he's in.


------------
Not a manga reader

[Aramis]

great episode! even the flashback part was relatively good. but it had something a little out of place
you see, when Sasuke walks down the streets with dozens of dead clanmates he's just so calm about it and goes home, takes off his sandals, then walks off to look for his parents.... you'd suppose he was a little more, like, in panic.

[Uchiha Barles]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Exactly, it doesn't add up logically .. testing 'coldness' doesn't make sense, if you are a highly trained ninja you probably know EXACTLY what choices you are capable of making. If you exist to be an elite tool of warfare, espionage, and death .. would there be any doubt that you could execute anyone you chose to?

(A)- Killing your clan is a pretty dumb test of strength, when there are more challenging opponents out there to provide a credible challenge. When Sasuke came across Itachi, Itachi was completely uninjured, and had enough chakra left (at his younger age!) to do Mange Sharingan on him .. that basically means the whole Uchiha clan posed VERY little threat to him ..

(B)- Why leave Sasuke alive? Didn't seem like he cared about him anyway .. maybe he just wanted a witness to tell the rest of Konoha who had done it, so that he would be pursued by hunter-nins (maybe his idea of a REAL challenge?).

(C)- Maybe the images he played back to Sasuke are not real .. this plays into a few different theories that have made their rounds where Itachi may possibly not be what he pretends to be.

The thing that bothers me, is that Itachi *seems* to be more intelligent than what his decisions might lead one to believe, it would be nice if there IS some currently unknown motivations and plot info that we don't know already .. because if Itachi ONLY wanted to test his strength, and left Sasuke to be an annoying bitch for the entire series .. then that's just incredibly lame. Bring on the rest of Akatsuki if that's the case ..


There's clearly a lot of things we don't know, and we'll probably get to know when Itachi reveals his side of the story. However, about the testing his "coldness" theory, He was only in his early teens. He doesn't have the experience that an older person would. And even if he did, he's still just a kid. At that age, even though you're trying to break away, you're still very attached to your family, especially if they're good to you. So it seems like as valid a theory as any to me.

If it's not to test his viciousness, my next theory would be that the clan existing was in the way somehow. I don't think he was worried about another Uchiha surpassing him since he left Sasuke alive and well, specifically to live, grow stronger, and then kill him. So it has to be something else.

[ForgottenSpiral]

For some reason when I saw the flashback in this episode it reminded me a lot of Gaara. Somehow I got the impression that the father knew Itachi was too strong and dangerous... and I thought maybe they attacked Itachi first and then Itachi killed all the rest of them just out of spite. As for why he would have spared Sasuke in that scenario I'm not sure.

I actually feel the idea someone said of Itachi wanting to die and creating Sasuke as his nemesis is the best explanation though. Thats how I have viewed Itachi from the begining and nothing I can think of really goes counter to that.

[chambers]

well its quite simple. the AA translation said it was to test himself or somthing, so he left sasuke because he was no test. also he probly left him so that he would have a test in the future.

[Assertn]

whats wrong with itachi using the excuse of testing himself as a reason to kill the clan? That kind of apathetic reasoning is more than enough to get the point across about just how evil itachi really is!

Anyone else find it odd that after seeing his grandparents and other clan members killed, sasuke doesnt hesitate to take his shoes off before walking into his house?

[Jchiang87]

anyway, i thought itachi was 12 when he massacred his own clan, but it says that he was anbu at 13. if he did do it at 12, then i guess he would've left the village right after therefor, not being able to receive anbu status. this is really weird because during the flash back, sasuke says that he is the same as age itachi when itachi graduated (7). which would mean that itachi was 12 since they are 5 years apart cuz sasuke is or should be 12 right now. but i guess itachi could've been 13 if one year has passed since the first episode til now.

sasuke is 12 atm, itachi is 17 right? 5 age difference, in bakafish it said he was 8 when he graduated, and 9 became chuunin, 13 became anbu. so sasuke was 8 when itachi killed everyone, and itachi was 13, so he was anbu, he killed everyone, then left.

[chambers]

yeah i was like, wtf is he doin? is it a sign or disrespect or somthin? or maybe he didnt want to track mud on the carpets.
also another point the village of konoha seems to be made up of 60% houses and 40% telephone wires, yet ive neevr seen anyone use it or even seen it in the houses!

[Assertn]

haha, well they could be powerlines.....im pretty sure they have electricity at least in the houses

i thought it was cool though that itachi said the same line you hear him say back in episode 30

[chambers]

same line?

[Mut]

Originally posted by: chambers
same line?

you know... run, cling, live life blah blah blah.

[chambers]

hmm must have missed that one, ill be at ep 30 soon tho as iam watchin them all back.

[The_Fourth]

Preety good episode, I thought the flashback was great since we needed more details of what happened that night. As for those wires, I think they are electricity wires for the street light.

[GLS]

since I dont read the manga, I'm not too familiar with any of the stuff beyond this ep.

Itachi kills people to test his ability. Kind of an odd approach, but it fits for a character like Itachi. It sure as hell is better than having a bunch of evil people that just want to destroy the universe. Those people blab on forever and just wont shut up, and therefore are hated.

But because Itachi is somewhat mysterious and very dark, it makes him an interesting evil character, as opposed to say, the likes of a Cell or Frieza.

[chambers]

its not justifed though. frieza wanted to rule the universe, cell wanted to become perfect. itachi tests himself on people weaker than himself. kindda odd if you ask me.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: chambers
its not justifed though. frieza wanted to rule the universe, cell wanted to become perfect. itachi tests himself on people weaker than himself. kindda odd if you ask me.

listen... there were other strong ninjas in the uchiha clan, ok?

[Gods_Son]

Itachi was testing his strength, that's his justification.

[Mae]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
whats wrong with itachi using the excuse of testing himself as a reason to kill the clan? That kind of apathetic reasoning is more than enough to get the point across about just how evil itachi really is!

Anyone else find it odd that after seeing his grandparents and other clan members killed, sasuke doesnt hesitate to take his shoes off before walking into his house?

I have a feeling that Itachi is going to end up having more of a motive than just testing himself. Kishimoto is GOOD at backstories, and he often doesn't reveal them until well after a character is introduced. For a long time it seemed that Gaara just liked killing people, but he ended up having some pretty serious issues from his past. Neiji just seemed like a jerk for pushing around Hinata until we saw his story, again much delayed. Naruto, Sasuke, Oro, Lee, Hinata, etc. all have very strong motives for what they do. I guess we'll just have to wait i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif

As for Sasuke taking off his shoes, well, I think that this was supposed to show that he was in shock and basically running on autopilot, not thinking about what he was doing.

[chambers]

mutata i never said that there weren't strong ninjas in uchiha clan. re-read what i said and youll realise that i am right, and that a test of stregnth is not murdering 20 people who are all weaker than you.

also its not justification, thats what he did. justification would be he tested his strength because __________ (dill in the blank).

[Mut]

Originally posted by: chambers
mutata i never said that there weren't strong ninjas in uchiha clan. re-read what i said and youll realise that i am right, and that a test of stregnth is not murdering 20 people who are all weaker than you.

also its not justification, thats what he did. justification would be he tested his strength because __________ (dill in the blank).

ok... let me quote what you said.



Originally posted by: chambers
its not justifed though. frieza wanted to rule the universe, cell wanted to become perfect. itachi tests himself on people weaker than himself. kindda odd if you ask me.

so, you said: "itachi tests himself on people weaker than himself. kinda odd if you ask me"

i don't know why you're saying that. he tested himself on the whole uchiha clan. he didn't just pick out the weak guys, EVERYONE was killed. are you not understanding this? you make it sound as if itachi selected the people he was gonna kill. and how is testing his strength not a justification? try this sentence: he killed his whole clan because ________ (fill in blank).

and if you're saying that killing the weak guys in the clan while testing his strength is not an actual test of strength, then think about this. what do you think the weaker guys are gonna do if they get away? of course they're gonna alert the whole village and have itachi killed. he obviously killed the weaker guys so they won't run off and tell everyone and he tested himself mainly on the stronger uchihas.

maybe you should re-read what you write and wrote and think before you post because you're not making any sense or proving a point.

[SK]

he meant thats what itachi believes justifies his action. im sick of hearing of excuses for itachi, its simple to me, to be able to kill your clan including you parents you have to be a fucked up person. also anyone notice in the A&A version sasuke calls his granparents aunt and mister, compared to grandparents in the bakafish.

[Zabuza No Jutsu]

I think the episode was ok...defintiely could've used more action though...the whole sasuke flashback thing shouldn't have been that long... a few minutes shorter maybe. Everyoen was hoping to see Jiraiya fight...guess we gotta wait ANOTHER 7 days before we see thati/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif But with any luck Anbu-Aone will realise that they've always been at lest a days or two late in getting their subs out and work really to hard to release it the day after it airs in JP! (yeah...like THAT'S gonna happen)

[Jchiang87]

didnt itachi's father say to sasuke itachi is not a likable companion, because no one can stop him? maybe he was just mad no one liked him because he was too strong so he killed everyone.

[Outtawack311]

Haha.....well, i was told by the_fourth. Gimme a break, I last watched it at 5:30 am.

[The_Fourth]

What do you mean there where no bodies in the street, on a scene you see sasuke running and seeing corpses on roof as well as on the streets.

[CyberPunk]

maybe the line, "i wanted to see what i was capable of" isn't necessarily an ability thing. maybe he wanted to see how truly sadistic he could be. we've seen from the other parts of the series where ninja are often thought of as tools without emotion. he didn't seem to have any emotion at all. i don't know, just adding something to this thread.

[SDShamshel]

I subscribe to the belief that Itachi told Sasuke a lie. "I did this to test my abilities." It's this sort of thing that would rile Sasuke. And, as we know, Mangekyou Sharingan is merely an illusion. A powerful illusion, yes, but Itachi can construct the world as he sees fit.

Ever since I knew about Itachi, my own hypothesis was that there is another force at work, and in order to keep this force from obtaining the power of the Uchiha clan, Itachi kills everyone except himself and Sasuke, for he feels they are the only two who have any chance of fighting against this force. Itachi says what he says to Sasuke in order to motivate Sasuke to become stronger, as he himself believes that Sasuke can surpass him.

Itachi may seem cold, but it's obvious he still has some attachments to Sasuke. Check out the finger twitch in episode 81. For someone who's so calm and able to move with such precision, a twitch like that is pretty significant.

[Assertn]

i wouldnt be surprised if that was all that it was to itachi.....sure they tend to build more on backgrounds later on, like with gaara.....but thats more for people with troubled pasts.....

itachi's didnt seem very troubled except for the stuff he did on his own. Besides, oro never got much of a backstory, the only reason we ever see flashbacks of him is because he's in flashbacks of sarutobi and jiraiya

[SpankyDaM]

Personally I think that someone else was responsible for killing the Uchiha clan, and Itachi came in after it had been done. I don't believe that he's the major villain that everyone is making him out to be.

We never saw him kill anyone, or any trace of blood / exhaustion etc when Sasuke finally meets him in the flashback, and the only evidence for the slayings is the usage of the sharingan to put the images in Sasuke's mind.

What if that was a plan by Itachi to force Sasuke to get better by giving him a target to aim at? Meanwhile Itachi goes ahead and infiltrates the bad guys to look for the real culprit?

Just another idea

[SK]

wow i can understand if you like itachi but you guys think up some tired excuses. theres no justifacation at all for killing your whole clan including your granparents and parents. why would he show the image of him killing everyone to sasuke if he didnt do it? plus you could tell he was thinking evil thoughts when sasuke looked at him and he frowned, that made me think itachi was thinking, 'i cant wait to kill this nuisence.'

[Rek]

I think it really shows how Sasuke really is... he freaked before, and again in the forest of discomfort, so that shows he's really calm under most situations even stressful ones, but he has a breaking point, and he totally freaks... whereas naruto freaks in generally minor situations, and when it gets very serious (where sasuke freaks) naruto shines.... which makes them a damned good team, IMO... i still don't see where sakura fits in... except making traps... damn that womans good at traps.

[jeditictac]

i still don't know what to think about itachi. aside from the fact that he makes a great bad guy.

he does appear to care about sasuke in some parts, the finger twitch and the whole thing he did when he was younger and sasuke asked for help.....but then in other parts he's totally cold to him.

part of me thinks it is possible that he didn't kill everyone and he arrived too late and gave sasuke the illusion that he had killed everyone because sasuke knew how powerful itachi was so he had a definate goal to surpass and itachi figured sasuke could surpass him and actually kill the true culprit. but then if that was so, how would sasuke even know aobut the true culprit. i mean he's grown up for years and years thinking it was itachi and hating itachi it's not like itachi can just go, oh by the way i showed you an illusion x person actually killed everyone but i knew i couldn't beat them and thought you could. cause yeah, sasuke wouldn't believe that and would just end up killing itachi (or trying too) and calling it a day.

so i wouldn't be overly surprised if later in the series it is shown that itachi didn't actually do it. i also wouldn't be surprised if he actually did do it because at the moment he's a pretty mysterious character, not much is known about his past except from sasuke's perspective so it is possible he was just one sick and twisted guy. if he did do it i think he had motivation other than 'testing' himself cause wow that is so lame esp given that he killed kids and grandparents and that they were his family so i doubt quite a few of them even put up a fight cause they were probably too shocked which all means it was a pretty lousy test unless it was a test of how unemotional he could be and even then i hope there is some type of further explanation.

[hopeknight]

Well to put the argument about Sasuke's grandparents not putting up a fight to an end, here's my two cents. Grandparents love their grand children, they were probably in alot of shock, and in no condition to put up a fight against their own dear grandson. That explains there lack of action.

Oh and they probably had Itachi killing everyone look so pathetically easy because either one, if they animated good battles, the flashback would be alot longer, or two, it was just images Itachi placed into Sasuke's mind, and making the Uchiha clan look helpless is that much more traumatizing.

[WonDa Bo!]

Hey there the names HarryCabbage
I say the episode was pretty good although i was a little pissed off they didnt really take off on what was happening although i gotta say Jiraya is a playa

[Assertn]

if itachi didnt kill his clan, or willingly do so.....then why did he join akatsuki, a VOLUNTEER organization?

[Aeon]

Hey nice to know I'm not the only person that think's that Itachi might be innocent. The reason why I think he joined the Akatsuki is because the real person that killed the clan might be apart of that group.

[Luchio]

Originally posted by: Aeon
Hey nice to know I'm not the only person that think's that Itachi might be innocent. The reason why I think he joined the Akatsuki is because the real person that killed the clan might be apart of that group.
Itachi, INNOCENT? You people have a lot of imagination when it comes to theories! COME ON!! Itachi IS evil, not a mystery hero.

IMO, he's part of Akatsuki simply because it's an evil organization and he's evil. My theory is at the opposite of yours, being that he killed his clan as a test for being accepted in Akatsuki.

(PS: nothing personnal)

[SofaKing]

I'm actually wondering if Itachi killed his clan as part of a test. Maybe he found out about the organization
and wanted in, but needed to be more... qualified.

[SasukesGirL]

haha i wouldnt be surprised if these itachi lovers start explaining that the reason he joined Akatsuki as a undercover agent and he is really working with the hidden leaf

also for those who think itachi cares for sasuke...wait til 85 comes out

[originalkrn]

they never have any proof of itachi killing anyone, for example: him actually killing someone. The only evidence that he would be actually evil and not a great actor would be that he said "kill them, they need to die immediately" to kisame when kakashi spoke of akatsuki. If itachi really killed his clan, there would be no reason to keep sasuke alive. I think kishimoto made the flashbacks that way to later on add something different, possibly a good itachi. Cuz if he wanted more dramatic effect, sasuke could have walked in right when Itachi sliced the parents, while his mom screamed "SASUKE, RUN!" or something like that.

[SasukesGirL]

Originally posted by: originalkrn
they never have any proof of itachi killing anyone, for example: him actually killing someone. The only evidence that he would be actually evil and not a great actor would be that he said "kill them, they need to die immediately" to kisame when kakashi spoke of akatsuki. If itachi really killed his clan, there would be no reason to keep sasuke alive. I think kishimoto made the flashbacks that way to later on add something different, possibly a good itachi. Cuz if he wanted more dramatic effect, sasuke could have walked in right when Itachi sliced the parents, while his mom screamed "SASUKE, RUN!" or something like that.

so ur saying itachi got framed? lol give it a rest -__-

[Mut]

you guys are thinking way too much into this. stop trying to be brilliant.

[SK]

in the manga in the flashback didnt he walk in and his mom did say sasuke run? i seem to remember that but i may be wrong, the manga chapter for around this episode i deleted and i dont feel like downloading it again.

[Terracosmo]

"THEY SET ME UP THE BOMB"
- Itachi

[codeRed]

It seems like People only believe what they want to believe. You know tunnel vision. First people don't want to believe that Itachi is probably weaker than Jiraiya despite numerous translation agreeing with this. Hell people rather believe the mistranslation. Now Itachi is innocent and that he is not evil. I thought that it was clear in the flashback that Itachi killed everyone. Even in the dialogue between Sasuke and Itachi suggest this. Do people even read subtitles anymore? This is getting rediculous.

[Kumiriko]

I dont dubt Itachi is weaker then Jira and i dont dubt that he is evil and killed his clan. But I could probably make a decent fanfic that would make him not evil. but then agane i dont want to.

[Kumiriko]

I dont dubt Itachi is weaker then Jira and i dont dubt that he is evil and killed his clan. But I could probably make a decent fanfic that would make him not evil. but then agane i dont want to.

[Aeon]

Originally posted by: codeRed
Now Itachi is innocent and that he is not evil. I thought that it was clear in the flashback that Itachi killed everyone. Even in the dialogue between Sasuke and Itachi suggest this. Do people even read subtitles anymore? This is getting rediculous.

But you fail to realize is that Itachi used his little technique to show what happened to the clan, he control's everything in that world so if he wanted to he could show himself killing all the Hokage's at once. The reason why I think he innocent is that it just doesn't add up the genious of the clan picking on the weaklings. Even Lee knew if he wanted to test his strength he had to fight Sauske and not Naruto.

[kyuubi_]

hmm.. i was wondering.. if itachi shows sasuke the images of clearing the entire clan was fake.. coz he's already on a one way road.. and there's no way he could help sasuke to improve.. so he's trying to motivate sasuke ? and by then he'll show the truth that it wasn't him that did it..

i believe that sasuke wasnt the only uchiha kid at that pt of time.. maybe he is.. but if there where.. that means they're killed too.. like that two old couples.. i don't think they can do much too.. but they're killed by itachi too.. so why doesn't itachi kill sasuke ? i believe sasuke can do better than those two..

[DarthEnderX]

Just to throw my 2 cents in, I can think of a couple reasons Itachi may have killed his clan.

1. Maybe it was a requirement to get into the organization he is currently in, or at least, a way to show them he was worthy.

2. Its possible that he jealously guards the power of the Sharingan. By wiping out his clan he insures that nobody else is running around with it, and no new Uchihas are being born with it. Granted, he lets Sasuke live, but he's just one person and he can keep track of him or not as he chooses, not like he can't just go deal with him later if he chooses.

But thats not to say I'm not willing to accept the idea of "testing himself". Nevertheless I also believe, like some others here, that he is not referring to his power, he's referring to his ability to do anything to achieve a goal. Someone else said something to the effect of "I think a ninja would know what he would and would not do" but I disagree. It's like the saying goes, "you never really know what your capable of..." until you have to do it of course. Itachi knows that if he is capable of killing everyone in his family and his entire clan without remorse, then there is truly nothing he won't do to accomplish his goals, whatever they may be.

[Mut]

i think that all of akatsuki members are s-rank criminals and i don't think there is a requirement for it. i think it's just a coincidence. i mean, look at it this way... how are they going to conspire against bunch of villages/countries if you're part of a village?

[DarthEnderX]

Secretely?

[SK]

i think sasuke is itachi's experiment and toy, he's itachi's experiment to show how far hate can motivate someone to become stronger and stronger.

[Mae]

I don't know if what Itachi did to Sasuke was an experiment or what, but at least it looks pretty deliberate. He kills everyone while Sasuke is gone. He waits for Sasuke to come back (we see him sitting on that telephone poll when Sasuke gets back to his neighborhood). After he sees Sasuke he doesn't just take off or attack him, but instead goes back to their parent's home to wait for him and then use his special technique while standing over their parents' bodies.

If he went through all of that trouble it seems like he wanted to accomplish something specific and not that he spared Sasuke because he was weak.

[Luchio]

I think Itachi was in trouble with most of the adult Uchihas and since Sasuke was

A. Maybe the youngest Uchiha,
B. Probably the only one that begged for his life
C. His good little brother

might all be factors why Itachi sparred Sasuke's life. But anyway, whatever his reasons were, Itachi has to live up with the consequences! mouahhahaha!

[Everon]

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
Just to throw my 2 cents in, I can think of a couple reasons Itachi may have killed his clan.

...But thats not to say I'm not willing to accept the idea of "testing himself". Nevertheless I also believe, like some others here, that he is not referring to his power, he's referring to his ability to do anything to achieve a goal. Someone else said something to the effect of "I think a ninja would know what he would and would not do" but I disagree. It's like the saying goes, "you never really know what your capable of..." until you have to do it of course. Itachi knows that if he is capable of killing everyone in his family and his entire clan without remorse, then there is truly nothing he won't do to accomplish his goals, whatever they may be.

That sounds about right. Of course Itachi never really said that he was capable of killing without remorse - maybe he regrets it - but he acts so much like a cold bastard that I doubt there really is any good in him.

[SDShamshel]

It's not beyond the realm of comprehension for Itachi to turn to be not as evil as he seems. After all, Orochimaru is pretty much the only "evil" villain we've encountered so far.

Zabuza is just ruthless, but he turns out to have a soft side, as we see in the end.
Haku, well, you know.
Gaara's just a psycho.
Neji's just a jerk, and possibly not even a villain.

In the end, the plot for one of the main villains of the series so far is not going to be "dur, I killed people so kill me."

[animeniac]

IMO Itachi is guilty of killing his clan, but i dont know why he kept Sasuke alive. Pretty good ep tho.

[jing]

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
DIDN'T WE SEE ITACHI KILLING THEIR PARENTS RIGHT INFRONT OF SASUKE? CAN SOMEONE POST UP A SCREEN SHOT, AND END THIS POINTLESS ARGUMENT. OF COURSE HE KILLED THE CLAN. OF COURSE HE KILLED SASUKE'S PARENTS, AND THAT WAS NO ILLUSION BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY DIED INFRONT OF HIM.

[Jessper]

Originally posted by: jing
UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
DIDN'T WE SEE ITACHI KILLING THEIR PARENTS RIGHT INFRONT OF SASUKE? CAN SOMEONE POST UP A SCREEN SHOT, AND END THIS POINTLESS ARGUMENT. OF COURSE HE KILLED THE CLAN. OF COURSE HE KILLED SASUKE'S PARENTS, AND THAT WAS NO ILLUSION BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY DIED INFRONT OF HIM.

Caps lock, learn it, hate it, don't use it.

The scene with Itachi killing the parents is part of the mangekyou sharingan so it was an illusion. This is shown when sasuke enters the room the parents are slumped over on the floor already dead then during the mangekyou sharingan it shows them on their knees getting cut down by Itachi.

[Assertn]

now the question is.....if itachi DIDNT kill the clan, then why did he go out of his way to make it aware to sasuke and the rest of konoha that he did?

[Mut]

i have no idea why the FUCK people think itachi didn't kill his clan and family. someone post right now and tell me what other possibilities there are. i would like to hear your theories.

[originalkrn]

Hey im not saying that he 100% didn't kill his clan, but their is reasonable doubt. You shouldn't be so stubborn and look at only one opinion. First, the way Kishimoto made Itachi's parent's death. He made it so that Itachi showed only a genjitsu to show that he killed the clan. And we all know taht genjutsu is an ILLUSIONARY technique, so we do not KNOW that he killed his clan. Yeah, he probably killed his clan. Okay. That would make Itachi such more of a badass. But there is still doubt, and we will never know until they show exactly what happened that night.




Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
now the question is.....if itachi DIDNT kill the clan, then why did he go out of his way to make it aware to sasuke and the rest of konoha that he did?

Because if someone else killed his clan for the sharingan and Itachi was only trying to protect them, Sasuke will go after that someone else and that somone else will most likely kill him. This will allow Itachi to have some sort of protection over Sasuke because if Sasuke seeks Itachi, he will either:1. Be stronger than Itachi and Itachi won't have to worry about the someone else killing Sasuke for the sharingan or 2. Be weaker than Itachi - and Itachi will not kill him, but instead motivate Sasuke to become stronger. And if Itachi didn't tell the entire town that he killed the clan, then Sasuke will obviously find out and go after the "real killer".

[CyberPunk]

it's a strong possibility that he actually did do it, but i wouldn't rule it out that he didn't. after all, what he showed sasuke was simply an illusion so there is no definitive answer. plus, you know how the creator likes his twists in the plotlines.

[Assertn]

i would agree that not directly showing itachi kill anyone could lead to possibilities that he didnt actually do it......and its always good to analyze minor details like that, because they can be taken advantage of in the future.....but the way i see it, those details were probably omitted because the mangekyou sharingan in itself unfolds that part of the story. It would be redundant for the animators to show itachi kill his parents and then show him kill his parents AGAIN to sasuke in the mangekyou

[Terracosmo]

I think you guys are just thinking too fucking much.

[Gods_Son]

He killed them to test his strength, that's all you can believe for now.

[originalkrn]

Well when i FIRST read the manga, i thought Sasuke came in right when Itachi slashed his parents and Itachi just used the mange to have Sasuke relive that time again for 3 days. Kishimoto could have just done that. Or he could have Itachi killed his parents right when Sasuke walked in and then have itachi use mange to show sasuke the massacre of his clan...

[logic]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i would agree that not directly showing itachi kill anyone could lead to possibilities that he didnt actually do it......and its always good to analyze minor details like that, because they can be taken advantage of in the future.....but the way i see it, those details were probably omitted because the mangekyou sharingan in itself unfolds that part of the story. It would be redundant for the animators to show itachi kill his parents and then show him kill his parents AGAIN to sasuke in the mangekyou


The animators have a thing for redunancy, flashbacks, that sort of thing.

Recalls the several-episode-long flashback trend in the 70's.

[Assertn]

well, THOSE flashbacks are of stuff we havent seen before......

as for the stuff we have, they usually dont show it in the same episode that it first appears in, unless its to indicate that a person is thinking about it

[Mut]

Originally posted by: originalkrn
Because if someone else killed his clan for the sharingan and Itachi was only trying to protect them, Sasuke will go after that someone else and that somone else will most likely kill him. This will allow Itachi to have some sort of protection over Sasuke because if Sasuke seeks Itachi, he will either:1. Be stronger than Itachi and Itachi won't have to worry about the someone else killing Sasuke for the sharingan or 2. Be weaker than Itachi - and Itachi will not kill him, but instead motivate Sasuke to become stronger. And if Itachi didn't tell the entire town that he killed the clan, then Sasuke will obviously find out and go after the "real killer".

i'm really sorry to say this but... that's sooo stupid. protection? what protection? itachi leaves the village for 5 years only to return and kick people's asses... where does his 'protection' come in? and the thing with sasuke seeking itachi... my response to #1 and 2: WHY DON'T SASUKE AND ITACHI TRAIN TOGETHER SO THEY CAN GO AFTER THE REAL KILLER?

omg, i can't believe you guys are thinking so deeply into this. unbelievable.

[gokudagreat]

Without reading too much into it, I think you have to admit that there is definitely some motivation that Itachi wants to give Sasuke in order for him to become strong, or else he would of just killed him

Basically, there is a reason he kept Sasuke alive, and its an important one

[Potage11]

Can Jiraya be any cooler? I don't think that is possible, he has it the highest summit of coolness, cause hes the king.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
[quote]
Originally posted by: originalkrn
omg, i can't believe you guys are thinking so deeply into this. unbelievable.

Some people are just beyond help when it comes to these things.
It's better to give up and let them realize how wrong they are once that's revealed. i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

[codeRed]

Pay attention to the dialogue between Sasuke and Itachi. That is enough to hit you in the head that Itachi did in fact kill everyone. Very likely Itachi used the Mangekyou Sharington to put fear into Sasuke and have him watch the slaying of everyone by the hands of Itachi which Sasuke missed because he came home late. With this Itachi is able to generate more hate from Sasuke. It is not some stupid diversion to lead people into thinking that Itachi is innocent or some other twist.

[SofaKing]

my response to #1 and 2: WHY DON'T SASUKE AND ITACHI TRAIN TOGETHER SO THEY CAN GO AFTER THE REAL KILLER?


Yeah, Itachi should go after the real killer, just like OJ is doing.

[KreShar]

I guess i'm late.. Hahaha.. anyways,pretty nice episode. For some reason i thought the part where sasuke attacks Itachi was pretty cool.. Though i have a question. Was their some reason why Sasuke pulled the neck of his shirt down while he charged his Chidori? Also,is it my imagination or was sasuke's skin peeling off his hand while he did it? Maybe he used too much chakra and his hand got burnt O_o

[SK]

i think he was pulling his collar because he thinks hes cool, nah i dont know why. to your second question i think it does the every time, the chakra has to be really strong to be visible so im sure the chidori might burn a little bit, thats probably why sasuke had it wrapped up before.

[chambers]

is his seal gone? i thought it was gone now, but maybe its more permanent than we are lead to believe?

[Terracosmo]

And the shuriken that Itachi threw, I guess he just accidently dropped it.

[chambers]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
huh?

[tensai]

And the shuriken that Itachi threw, I guess he just accidently dropped it
yeah...huh?
i dont remember itachi taking any shurikens out during this ep, i might of missed it then.

when sasuke did the chidori, i think his veins were popping out not skin peeling, later when itachi grabbed his hands, nothing looked wrong.

[Mut]

ROFL... am i the ONLY one who gets what terracosmo said? wow...

[Assertn]

itachi threw a shuriken at sasuke in sasuke's flashback

i just thought of something that would be really badass.....
if sasuke reaches itachis level at some point and develops the mangekyou sharingan as well, then that would be cool if he uses it to counter itachi's and then both end up in that dimension where both of them can manipulate time, space, and matter....and then a whole elaborate battle could take place in that dimension, while in real life it only lasted for a fraction of a second

[SK]

you never know maybe we will see that someday, itd be awesome because theyd both probably use some outrageous moves. thatd probably be one of the best action scenes in an anime if it happened.

[originalkrn]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: originalkrn
Because if someone else killed his clan for the sharingan and Itachi was only trying to protect them, Sasuke will go after that someone else and that somone else will most likely kill him. This will allow Itachi to have some sort of protection over Sasuke because if Sasuke seeks Itachi, he will either:1. Be stronger than Itachi and Itachi won't have to worry about the someone else killing Sasuke for the sharingan or 2. Be weaker than Itachi - and Itachi will not kill him, but instead motivate Sasuke to become stronger. And if Itachi didn't tell the entire town that he killed the clan, then Sasuke will obviously find out and go after the "real killer".

i'm really sorry to say this but... that's sooo stupid. protection? what protection? itachi leaves the village for 5 years only to return and kick people's asses... where does his 'protection' come in? and the thing with sasuke seeking itachi... my response to #1 and 2: WHY DON'T SASUKE AND ITACHI TRAIN TOGETHER SO THEY CAN GO AFTER THE REAL KILLER?

omg, i can't believe you guys are thinking so deeply into this. unbelievable.

Honestly, i think Itachi did kill his clan, however just how the way kishimoto does it all makes it a little mysterious.

That shiruken that itachi threw was obviously not meant to kill Sasuke. Itachi would not miss a Shiruken at Sasuke.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
i would agree that not directly showing itachi kill anyone could lead to possibilities that he didnt actually do it......and its always good to analyze minor details like that, because they can be taken advantage of in the future.....but the way i see it, those details were probably omitted because the mangekyou sharingan in itself unfolds that part of the story. It would be redundant for the animators to show itachi kill his parents and then show him kill his parents AGAIN to sasuke in the mangekyou

i still stand by this...
if they showed itachi killing everyone, then how annoying would it be to see it all again when he used the mangekyou on sasuke?

the reason itachi didnt kill sasuke with the shuriken was the same reason he let sasuke live
but the point that itachi would even wound sasuke if he didnt kill the other clan members i think is what terracosmo tried to point out

[Ryuuza Megami]

Hmm, I can't seem to remember if I have posted in this thread or not. Probably not because I don't remember doing so.

Anyway, I got Naruto 84 as recently as 2 days ago and finally was able to have the time to watch it. I thought that this episode explained a lot about Sasuke's hatred for, and his determination to kill, his brother Itachi. Even though the flashback was pretty long, I'm just glad that it finally took place because for some time, until like 40 eps ago or so, I wasn't sure as to why Sasuke was determined to kill his own brother. Then you learn that his brother killed off the Uchiha clan of course, but then this flashback in 84 shows you what Sasuke saw and then what Itachi forced him to see.

How friggin horrible is that for a little kid to go through, especially when he held his brother in such high regards only to have it come crashing down in a single moment. And I personally thought that Itachi's reason for killing those people was plain bull crap myself. I mean, come on, if you wanted to test yourself, you don't slaughter innocents and those you know who are not as strong as you are.

Don't even get me started on that Chakra eating, shaving sword that the fish faced partner (I sorta forgot his name...I don't know how, but I did) has. That is pure bull crap there. I mean, come on, the thing was friggin huge and it had scales to boot!! Did the writers have to make it eat up Chakra as well??

The whole Jiraiya thing, though, was pretty funny at the end when he saved Naruto and Sasuke's bum's just in the nick of time. How he explains that he is the best at peeping on women and then trying, himself, to seduce the women and so on. That was hilarious because I thought that he was thinking way too highly of his own interpersonal skills with women.

Okay, enough with what I thought though. In short this ep gets a great 2 thumbs up from me and then some. I do have one question though, if anyone is willing to answer it. I know that Jiraiya and Naruto are looking for some woman, but I forgot her name. If anyone can help me out with the name that would be fine. Thanks!!

[Assertn]

the name's Tsunade, of the 3 legendary sannin

[Ryuuza Megami]

Ah yes, thank you very much for the answer to that question....Sometimes I just can't keep them all straight in my head.

[saeadeb]

Sorry if this has been said I don't feel like scouring this thread. Maybe Itachi didn't mean testing his abilities as a ninja, maybe he ment seeing if he was capable of slautering his own village, seeing how much of a monster he could be. Capable of being a fucking psycho.

[Mut]

no, it was a test of his strength.

[Wolfie]

i think itachi killed his clan without a doubt..although i could be wrong..but the reason i think was to test his strength..not on the clan members he killed .. but on the future sasuke..i think he thought..to test his true strength..the only ones valid enough would have to be from his clan..and who better then his own blood...he killed them all and showed sasuke that to, as they said. hate him.detest him.ect ect..so in time he would grow stronger and then can test itachis true strength..

[Assertn]

could you say your thought was without a doubt if you follow it with "although i could be wrong"?

[kupalmaru]

What if Itachi is just trying to save the village. Maybe the clan is planning some kind of rebellion or take over. Being the anbu leader he killed all the clan to protect the village. Their father said Itachi is different from us or think different