Why is Kage Bunshin Forbidden?

[Kenshiro]

Hi, im new to the forum and all that stuff, so sorry if this has been discussed to death.

If I remember correctly, at the very start of Naruto, when he steals the scroll of the forbidden seals (or whatever it is called), why is Kage Bunshin No Jutsu in there?

The 3rd was very worried because Naruto might have performed a jutsu to unseal the demon fox, but I dont see why Kage Bunshin should ever be banned as it is on the whole, quite a lame jutsu.

Also, if it is a forbidden jutsu, why is it that every single Jounin can either do it or knows about it.

[Gods_Son]

Maybe because they knew Naruto would overuse the move like an idiot? I'm not sure why it's considered forbidden, we'll find out.

[Death BOO Z]

here's the deal. the jutsu isn't forbidden but the scroll is.

the scroll contained various jutsus from the highest ranks, but espically, it had the unsealing method to revert Naruto into the kyubi. So once the 4th died, and the possibily of the kyubi returning become a risk, they sealed the entire scroll, including the kage bunshin...

however, since it wasn't the only copy of the kage bunshin justu, many other people know it, and becuase it doesn't seem to break any kind of super forbbiden technique, Naruto is also allowed to use it.

special note: the only time that says that the skill itself is forbbiden is within the survival test, when Kakashi says "so this is the forbidden skill you used to defeat Mizuki", but i'm pretty sure it was a transelation error, since almost every single Genin (!) knows about it...

there was some discussions on it in the thread about Kakashi's copyings, check it out.

oh, and Naruto isn't always overusing it, he sometimes has nice ideas, too bad he can't form the tactic from the beginning and spare us the wasted clones...

[lasaire]

Another reason the jutsu is forbidden is that it's a jounin level jutsu and takes a jounin's amount of chakra to use. Hence why Kakashi, Ebisu and the Third, all jounin or above, are the only others shown to use it. The amount of chakra it requires could be dangerous for someone of a chuunin level or below o use. Naruto, of course, bypasses this with the kyubi.

[MemnochTheCaT]

I think Naruto has plenty of chakra for Kage Bunshin with or without Kyuubi i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Too bad he doesn't do many other moves i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif

[Lithonite]

actually as for all the gennin knowing about it..this isnt true even the book worm Sakura didnt know about it all she knew was " there were multiple naruto's" and sh ewanted to know what was going on.

i dont think Gennin need to have that many Jutsu, that why they are gennin they have mastered the basic jutsu but having ah uge arsenal or jutsu isnt where they are at. they shouls all have between 1-3 jutsu and thats about it. As it is i am getting the impression that the Lee's team and the rookie 9 are prety much at the top of the genin class, they are exceptional for their age. no thy are no kakshi's or Itachi labeld as geniuses cept Neji, and maybe Sasuke, but still they are strong real strong them having jounin lvl jutsu's already then having a ton of them would jut make them too strong. they are young nin, and thats the way its suppose to be. Hell after training with jiraiya Naruto already has enough high lvl jutsu under his belt( kage busshin, summoning, and Rasegan ). Sasuske has rediculous speed, chidori, kage busshin( although he has not used it yet he surely has copied it by now ), and untold jutsu he has copied at this point. Neji, has rediculous speed, as well as 2 jounin lvl jutsu that he developed himself..., Lee the gate..i mean 5 at what 13-14 years old, and his speed of course and mastering of taijutsu. these 4 are already way above genin lvl when it come to fighting power. Shkimaru, has his fathers jounin lvl shadow neck bind jutsu, Shino..well he was strong as well. so they dont ned any more jutsu. and the kage busshin was forbidden i believe because it is an exceptionaly strong jutsu seeing as teh hokage's clones could take damage( and even naruto at this point can have his clones take damage without dissolving ), not to mention that can perform jutsu as well. i mean imagine having 20-30 Oro, Jiraiya's, or Itachi's fighting somone( not that any of these 3 need any extra help ) they literally could take an entire village out solo. yeah it should be forbidden

[MemnochTheCaT]

Lithonite < Paragraphs i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif

[RangeOfHakke]

if i saw 20-30 oro's, jiraiya's, or itachi's i would do piss my pants no jitsu....

[JusDaMan]

Does kage bunshin split physical strength as well as chakra? Im not really sure of that. if so... no1 gotta worry about a crapload of kage bunshin. 1=200=10000000000000000000000000 its all the same. =)

[Kumiriko]

Maybe there is a higher lv of Kage Bunshin that naruto dint learn that made it forbidden. like some way to make them Identical in stregth and Chakra and able to take as much damage as naruto. The fact remains we wount know untill they go into more detale in this area

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

I agree with Death. The jutsu itself is not forbidden, but the scroll where it's written is.
When the two examiners saw Naruto doing it during his fight with Neji, their comment was:
how can he do that it's a jounin level jutsu? They didn't mention that it was forbidden.
Also, Kakashi used this jutsu when he fought Kabuto, and obviously it was not a regular bushin because Kabuto would probably be able to detect it. For two reasons: He got to be close enough to Kakashi and he is at a jounin level.
A forbidden jutsu, for what I understand, is so because, it's either unethical or puts the life of the performer in danger.
The Kage Bushin doesn't seem to be an unethical jutsu, let's say, like the Edo Tensei. Also, it doesn't seem to be a life threatening jutsu, like opening the gates.
Kakashi, was having second thoughts about putting his life on the line to kill Oro and protect Sasuke, and I would think he also wouldn't put his life on the line just to kill a little bastard such as Kabuto. And so far as I can remember, I've never seen Kakashi doing anything unethical. One cannot consider reading dirty books as unethical.

[Assertn]

no, just chakra is distributed
apparently zabuza's water clones only have 1/10 the strength of the original though.....just an interesting tidbit

[BoXs]

i think those jutsu belongs to the nine tail fox .... and if naruto learns them all ... that means that the nine tail fox gets all his jutsus back as well (remember hokage took away all the jutsu of Orochimaru when he seals his arms ... so i am guessing that the 4th took away all the jutsu of the nine tail .... n since the nine tail fox can never die ... meaning that it would be reincarnation itself ... n since it is seal inside of the 4th's body ... maybe the 4th was reincarnated in to naruto)

[AnimeEd]

Originally posted by: BoXs
i think those jutsu belongs to the nine tail fox .... and if naruto learns them all ... that means that the nine tail fox gets all his jutsus back as well (remember hokage took away all the jutsu of Orochimaru when he seals his arms ... so i am guessing that the 4th took away all the jutsu of the nine tail .... n since the nine tail fox can never die ... meaning that it would be reincarnation itself ... n since it is seal inside of the 4th's body ... maybe the 4th was reincarnated in to naruto)

no.

[Insomniac]

its forbidden to save show watchers from a boring repititive move... damn

[XwingRob]

Its forbidden because Agent Smith used it on the Konoha village long ago. If it wasn't for our hero, the Zero Hokage named Neo, we would not see Konoha as it is today.

[Kumiriko]

you know what the creepy part is. i just watched that movie for the first time tonight

[MemnochTheCaT]

Naruto > Matrix Trilogy

[435]

Originally posted by: Kumiriko
Maybe there is a higher lv of Kage Bunshin that naruto dint learn that made it forbidden. like some way to make them Identical in stregth and Chakra and able to take as much damage as naruto. The fact remains we wount know untill they go into more detale in this area


That's almost it exactly.


If I recall correctly, Naruto failed his test in the first episode because he could not replicate himself, whereas everyone else could.

After finding the scroll, Naruty became the only one to replicate using Kage Bushin.

Sure, most high level ninja know it for what it is, but that doesn't mean they know how to do it.
As far as the episodes I've seen and the manga I've read, no one but Naruto uses Kage Bushin. Everyone else using a more simple replication.

I agree that it's probably forbidden by what's on the rest of the scroll, but if not, it's probably forbidden because it has a much higher chakra drain than a regular replication.

Remember how surprised was the Frog Man (can't think of his name) that Naruto could do it so many times, with so many clones.

[Kale Ironfist]

if i remember, it was not that kage bunshin that was forbidden but Tajyuu Kage Bunshin. since kage bunshin splits the chakra evenly and the user creates a LOT of clones, it makes all of them have a smaller amount of chakra, and makes the technique closely related to the Lotus. why? because if the lotus is beaten, the user will suffer for it, much like the tajyuu kage bunshin.

*tajyuu kage bunshin = (many) shadow clones

[Hatake_Kakashi-sEaL-?]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????? (https://sr-klan.tripod.com)i/expressions/beer.gif

[snowball]

i agree that just the scroll itself is forbiden. The scroll is not the nine tails techniques. and the kage did not steal oros techniques he stole his arms so he could not do them anymore. and what is with the post above me?

[MemnochTheCaT]

Originally posted by: Hatake_Kakashi-sEaL-?
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Grrr Spam i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[Boogster]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT


Originally posted by: Hatake_Kakashi-sEaL-?
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Grrr Spam i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif


Pointing it out on this matter is merely hypocritical.

[Kenshiro]

"Sure, most high level ninja know it for what it is, but that doesn't mean they know how to do it.
As far as the episodes I've seen and the manga I've read, no one but Naruto uses Kage Bushin. Everyone else using a more simple replication."

As far as I can remember, we have seen three other people use it.

Kakashi V Zabuza

Kabuto V Kakashi

3rd Hokage V Oro + other hokages.

Im sure that Kabuto would have no issues using a forbidden Jutsu as they are baddies, but Kakashi is a goody tooshoes, and would only use one if he really had to.

when the 3rd used it, (just before he used the 4ths Jutsu), Oro takes the piss out of him for doing such a lame jutsu.

It probably is a case that the scroll is forbidden rather than the jutsu, as someone else mentioned above.

[ssjtrunks585]

Originally posted by: Insomniac
its forbidden to save show watchers from a boring repititive move... damn

i don't think kage bunshin is a boring, repetitive move. i actually think its one of the more useful techniques used in the series. when naruto, neji, shikamaru, etc... were fighting the 4 Sounds, naruto threw a kage bunshin clone out at the spider guy and he thought he had killed naruto...but it was only a clone. afterwards, naruto came out of a tree to attempt (failed, nonetheless) an attack. a long time ago, during the second chuunin exam, naruto was eaten by orochimaru's snake summon...naruto used kage bunshin to destroy the snake. 3rd vs. oro...how else would the 3rd have beaten the 1st and 2nd w/out kage bunshin? he sure as hell would not have used Shiki Fuujin on oro with the 2 hokages beating on him while he tried to hold oro. Finally, just in episode 81, Kakashi used a shadow clone to use sharingan and use Kisame's Suikodan no Jutsu right back at him, while Kakashi pointed a Kunai at Itachi's throat (sure, Itachi messes Kakashi up, but i think i got my point across). there were plenty more moments when kage bunshin came in handy (taju kage bunshin no jutsu, harem no jutsu, etc...), so i dont think anyone has the right to be calling it a pointless, boring, repetitive move. Naruto may overuse it...a lot...but it doesn't take away from the fact that it usually takes a smarter-than-average person to use it properly...

[Mut]

kakashi doing a kage bunshin was cool (during itachi fight) but naruto doing it was like zZzZZzZZZZzZzzz

[kilzo]

kakashi doing a kage bunshin was cool (during itachi fight) but naruto doing it was like zZzZZzZZZZzZzzz

Yeah, a jutsu like that is good when used rarely. Looking that Kakashi only used it acouple times when its really needed. IMO, The forbidden techique is now getting numbed down considering Naruto has used it in almost every battle, and really doesnt seem that special except for the Naruto ninpo book (beginning of Naruto Gaara fight), which i found fairly original to clones as tools and apply them (jumping off them/draw out attacks), but its very wasteful.

Can't wait to see the Resangan, coming up in about 2-3 episodes (anime)!

Edit: Sorry about the typo, my appologies

[ssjtrunks585]

Rasengan...that is...not being a jerkface, just giving a correction to an easily mispelled term

Edit: its all good in the neighborhood

[Ittam89]

As it is i am getting the impression that the Lee's team and the rookie 9 are prety much at the top of the genin class, they are exceptional for their age.

If you read the manga you should have noticed that the people that Naruto(the series) is following are the mightiest in the village... they will become special jounins and sennin. The other people in the classes that we havent seen yet will be magically transformed in too ANBU(Gunfodder without face and story) Right now in the Manga... the leafs genins are beating the STRONGEST in the sound village... with only small setbacks now and then... and this :



i dont think Gennin need to have that many Jutsu, that why they are gennin they have mastered the basic jutsu but having ah uge arsenal or jutsu isnt where they are at. they shouls all have between 1-3 jutsu and thats about it.

yea... they got about 10000000 different THAT technuiqes wich they only use when they are really in danger and the frase: Oh no! It seems like i'll have too use that technuiqe now. has been like 2-3 times for every person in the series so far and it will become more of that...


PS: im not gonna correct all the spelling flaws in the quotes.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: Kumiriko
Maybe there is a higher lv of Kage Bunshin that naruto dint learn that made it forbidden. like some way to make them Identical in stregth and Chakra and able to take as much damage as naruto. The fact remains we wount know untill they go into more detale in this area

I'd have to agree with you on this assessment. I believe that the higher form of kage bunshin is called, brace yourself, "Hokage Bunshin." It is the forbidden ability to shadow replicate the former hokages, divide chakra evenly through them all, makes them very durable, and they are able to use all of their past jutsus. You see, in the scroll there is a blood pact on it. You must sign your name in blood.

Kage bunshin was one of the many training steps to achieve the prized "Hokage Bunshin."

[Chewy]

Kage Bunshin is a forbidden Jitsu simply cuz its REALLY powerful... like all the other forbidden Jitsus.
Now why would a Jitsu become forbidden? Well just like in the real world, villages do not want an arms race. They intentionally do not teach jitsus(forbidden ones) to their ninjas so there could be balance between all the villages.
Of course there are exceptions. Its okay for SOME ninjas to know SOME forbidden jitsus. A Kage Bunshin here or there won't overpower a village.