Question about orochimaru

[hornetmike]

alright. I've seen all the episodes and have read the manga several times. Maybe this has already been discussed, but how is it that oro can still summon Manda and those other snakes. I mean it requires a blood contract and oro is in someone else's body. Now if his blood is the key to his contracts, how can he still summon using someone else's blood. Now i have several theories on this. but i'd like to hear what other people think.

[Mut]

you've stomped the hell out of me.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Do you mean stumped? i/expressions/light.gif

[LaZie]

maybe, Oro transfered his blood to the other body so he can summon

[Mut]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Do you mean stumped? i/expressions/light.gif

got me there on a silly typo. you get 1 point for that.

so... can we hear about the theories

[Hotsuma]

He's a genius. He can do things against the rules.

[Knives122]

I think it doesnt really matter with body blood, but with you soul blood and since oro changes bodys his soul is still intact so, he can still summon

[hornetmike]

Well i do have one theory but i'd rather hold on to it right now. till maybe people think of some more things. but about the whole soul blood thing? what? i'm a little confused as to what you mean. and as for the transferring of blood to another body. wouldn't the body reject blood unless it was the same type. so i'm not so sure on that theory. it seems that he just picks people with strong bodies.

[Lenas]

There's never been any evidence to suggest that a blood contract needs to be made to summon snakes. It shows no blood used when the sand army summons snakes, it shows no blood when Orochimaru first summons a snake against Sasuke / Naruto. And, if I recall correctly, Kabuto summons snakes for Orochimaru during the showdown with Tsunade / Jiraiya, again without any blood shown. We know Kakashi's dogs require blood (recall the scroll scene against Zabuza?) and we know that the frogs require the use of blood, but I don't know if I'm convinced the same holds true for all summons.

[hornetmike]

Hey kabuto used Oro's blood in order to summon manda. also he used the contract on Oro's arm in order to do it. So on that point, i think you're wrong. But you are correct in saying that not all summons require blood in order to do it. the sound four didn't really need blood to do their summons from what i can recall.

[Assertn]

well, oro couldve signed the contract after taking over that girl's body....or maybe he just signs it again every time he switches
or maybe part of the process of switching bodies, the new body inherits all the physical qualities of the old body......although i dont get how he could still have "uchiha blood" and his own blood at the same time if he took over sasuke's body

[sangai]

he just re signs the contract and gives a new print.

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Maybe he will have his lawyer write a different contract, this time.
There was blood the first time he summoned the snake against Naruto.
He has a tatoo on his forearm and he smears it with blood with his thumb.

Anyhow, if the characteristics of the old body move in to the new, it won't help him to change into Sasuke's, his arms will remain screwed.
So, the theory that he renews contracts every time is a good one.
Then again, it may also have to do with the tattoo on his arm. He'd just have to have it redone, and the contract would still be the same.
Maybe he has a different deal.
Neither Jiraiya, Naruto or Kakashi seem to have to offer human sacrifices to their animals. Apparently, for the animals of the side of good, the blood of the guy who summons them seems to be enough.
But for what I understood during the fight of the three sannins, Manda demands (sounds nice, eh) human sacrifices, and depending on the energy/effort spent the numbers will increase. So, if you offer a human sacrifice, the blood will be that of the victim, and doesn't matter who's blood it is, as long as it comes in large amounts. He could loot the Red Cross and wouldn't have much prob chasing victims, for one.

[jing]

Originally posted by: sangai sakusei
he just re signs the contract and gives a new print.

True that. Orochimaru is kinda like a snake. So own kinds gotta stick together. Maybe

[MemnochTheCaT]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Do you mean stumped? i/expressions/light.gif

got me there on a silly typo. you get 1 point for that.

so... can we hear about the theories

Aww it would have been so much funnier if you had actually meant to say that you had the hell stomped out of you i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Although that does sound painful ..

What would stop Oro from re-signing the summoning contracts with the new body/blood?

[hornetmike]

Good points. especially about him just resigning the contract and all. that and the whole human sacrifices thing were what i was thinking. Just wanted to hear if anyone had any other ideas. Also this raises another question. if his blood does not transfer or does transfer is a bit odd. how was he gonna use these people's blood limits if its his blood in their bodies. people like sasuke and all. what's the point of acquiring the sharingan if you don't have the uchiha blood to use it to the fullest. it would be stupid to get it and the minute you go against itachi, he defeats you when you look in his eyes like kakashi.

So how does that whole thing work?

[MemnochTheCaT]

In my opinion, the Mange Sharingan technique is a cheap and blatant ripoff of Midou Ban's 'Evil Eye' technique, and it was done 10x cooler in Get Backers.

[hornetmike]

well to be fair about how cool the mange sharingan is, we haven't seen it in the anime yet. So we can't tell.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Check out the Get Backers manga to see what I mean.. of course, to be fair .. the Evil Eye technique was much more central to the story, and much more time and effort went into that element ... so it was bound to be so much cooler than some cheap ripoff.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT


Originally posted by: Mut@t@


Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Do you mean stumped? i/expressions/light.gif

got me there on a silly typo. you get 1 point for that.

so... can we hear about the theories

Aww it would have been so much funnier if you had actually meant to say that you had the hell stomped out of you i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Although that does sound painful ..

What would stop Oro from re-signing the summoning contracts with the new body/blood?

nah, everyone knew what i meant. besides, i don't need to cover anything up. ever.

get backers suck compared to naruto. so that's already thrown out. and i don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but i'm sure someone has noticed that tat on orochimaru's arm. he slides his thumb across it before he summons.

[hornetmike]

well i did see the entire and tragically cut short get backers series. and it was pretty cool and was more important to the character and story. But it didn't inflcit any mental damage or have a physical effect on its victim. So to be fair, i'll wait till i see the one in the naruto anime to decide on which is cooler. and also it's what made midou ban such a bad ass.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Get Backers is cool in it's own way, I prefer Naruto .. but there's no denying that Mange Sharingan is a complete and total ripoff of Evil Eye. It would be just as cheesy as if the next big anime suddenly had someone doing Shikamaru's shadow-bind, only in a cheap copy of it.

Edit : Yeah, sucked that Get Backers got cut short the way it did, the ending was horrible, and the whole 'Infinite Castle' stuff was pretty cheesy overall. The best thing about the series was Midou Ban (Badass!), Chibi Ginji (Rofl!), and Dr. Jackal .. (kind of similar to Kimimaro, now that I think about it .. only he pulls blades from inside his body instead of bones..)

[hornetmike]

holy crap. never thought of dr. jackal and kimimaro. interesting similarities. same sort of look too. hhumm? But naruto is definetly better. So people let me know about the whole oro and blood thing and how is it he would use the blood limit of the bodies that he takes over.

[MemnochTheCaT]

I think the only reasonable explanation is that he just pulls the contract out and adds the newly aquired blood to it .. that way he could (A) - Keep his summons, and (B) - Take advantage of bloodline abilities of his newly aquired body

[originalkrn]

maybe kishimoto ( i think thats his name ) wasn't even thinking about it XP. It might just be something that shouldn't be discussed.
however, if he was.... Oro's blood may just stay the same even if he does a body transfer. All blood is probably the same and the person's "soul" is what makes it individual. So when Oro's soul is transfered into a new body, the blood becomes identified as his.

[Assertn]

what i'd like to know....is how come naruto doesnt need a tattoo or scroll or anything to smear the blood on for the summon? oro's got that arm tattoo, and i think jiraiya has a small one on his palm as well, and kakashi had to use a scroll (although he didnt for pakkun, for some reason).....so whats up with that?

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
what i'd like to know....is how come naruto doesnt need a tattoo or scroll or anything to smear the blood on for the summon? oro's got that arm tattoo, and i think jiraiya has a small one on his palm as well, and kakashi had to use a scroll (although he didnt for pakkun, for some reason).....so whats up with that?

Naruto has a better lawyer...one who can read the small print i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
Well, with Kakashi, he summoned like half a dozen dogs, and big ones, too.
Pakkun seems to be pretty much the runt of the litter, so he's not very demanding. Even so, because he isn't a fighting dog.
Dunno, maybe Naruto is to young to get a tattoo, or we didn't see him get tattooed.
Can't find any rational explanation, as you must have noticed by now.
I just stand by my theory that if you give blood from sacrifices, you don't need to give your own. That's what makes more sense since Oro changes bodies.

[Assertn]

ah but is it considered a sacrifice of blood if the blood is already out of your body? i'm sure the blood running down naruto's lip was not going to be of any value to him anymore.....and if it sounds like im being picky about the idea, well i have to be if the summons themselves are supposed to emphasize the point of sacrifice as the base for summoning

[originalkrn]

maybe kakashi's scroll thing had nothing to do with summoning. Maybe it was just done so that it could help him do something else. Like maybe look cool in front of Sakura. Hahaha. Most likely none of this actually has anything to do with summoning except the blood cuz Naruto can summon just fine without any of that stuff.

[Assertn]

when i saw kakashi use his blood on the scroll during that bridge fight, my thought used to be that he provided his blood for the tracking dogs to figure out what odor to sniff out for finding zabuza...which WAS the point in him getting nailed by zabuza's weapons, after all

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
ah but is it considered a sacrifice of blood if the blood is already out of your body? i'm sure the blood running down naruto's lip was not going to be of any value to him anymore.....and if it sounds like im being picky about the idea, well i have to be if the summons themselves are supposed to emphasize the point of sacrifice as the base for summoning

Jeesssh! Naruto was being crushed by the desert coffin (hope I named the jutsu right) so the blood that was/had been flowing from his mouth was from that...which is a sacrifce in a sense. Especially, because he was sacrificing his life for Sakura... well, summoning Sakura wouldn't help much.
Anyhow, maybe Gamakichi helped out cause Naruto save his life.
Gama-Bunta seems to be a supporting father, he really got mad when the kid told he had been bullied, so I can assume that Gamakichi saw Naruto summoning Gama-bunta and decided to help the summoning.
Edit: I just remembered that in the end of the second chunnin exam, they summoned Iruka, and didn't need any blood at all. Maybe with humans is different...
Huh, maybe if you put more chacra into it you need less blood... Kishimoto has lots of explaining to do...

[Gods_Son]

As long as it's fresh blood, I think it counts as a blood sacrifice.
Off-topic: Memnoch/hornetmike, I agree Getbackers isn't as good as Naruto, but it has a lot of cool characters

[MemnochTheCaT]

Originally posted by: KonohamaruCorps
As long as it's fresh blood, I think it counts as a blood sacrifice.
Off-topic: Memnoch/hornetmike, I agree Getbackers isn't as good as Naruto, but it has a lot of cool characters

Hell yeah! GB is one of my faves i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Along with CB, Hellsing, Azumanga Daioh (love Hotsuma's Osaka Avatar!) .. I guess I like lots of anime .. but Naruto is my fave right now i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Agree on the Oro/Blood thing

[Assertn]

true, how can kishimoto get into blinding detail about the way shino's bugs blocked zaku's air cutter move, while leaving important things vague like summoning jutsus

getbackers is interesting.....but the way the fight scenes are arranged (especially in that infinite castle thing) are a bit too contrived imo

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
true, how can kishimoto get into blinding detail about the way shino's bugs blocked zaku's air cutter move, while leaving important things vague like summoning jutsus

getbackers is interesting.....but the way the fight scenes are arranged (especially in that infinite castle thing) are a bit too contrived imo

He has to explain why Shino's bugs didn't do Kankuro for one. Considering their number, I wonder if they would have left any chakra at all. But I digress.
Damn, I gotta check which forum I am before posting. Mendo kusai, ne?As Shikamaru would say.

[Gods_Son]

Kishimoto probably just never thought to go into extra detail about it.

Some of the GB fights weren't great, but the characters is what made the show good. I'm suprised there wasn't more talk about GB when they had the thread in General Anime a while ago. Hellsing has a lot of style also, Alucard was cool.

[Raven]

There used to be a GB section before the show ended.

Do we know for sure that Manda actually has a scroll to sign? Do all summons have one? Or is it just a Gammabunta thing? Maybe Oro doesn't have to sign anything, and he can summon him no matter what body he's in. Just a thought, I'm probably totally wrong.

[hornetmike]

Well if oro doesn't use a contract or need one. wouldn't that mean anyone can summon manda. It seems to me that the sand ninjas needed a scroll in order to summon. and look at how many of them it took to do so. it seems those scroll were given to them as some sort of permission thing IMO. I just don't know. But yes kishimoto has a lot of explaining to do. too many things left unsaid.

[Raven]

Yeah, if I'm right (which I admit is very unlikely) then technically anyone could summon Manda, but nobody would because a) it takes an abnormal amount of chakra and b) Manda seems to want to eat everyone who summons him, even Oro.

So because of his strength and skill, Oro is probably the only one who can effectively summon him and survive.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: sangai sakusei
he just re signs the contract and gives a new print.


This is most likely the correct explanation.

[hornetmike]

Well you guys are right. so maybe as sakura and sasuke begin learning about summonings, we'll get more details about the whole thing. God i hope sakura learns something soon, cause she's pissed me off more than any other anime character ever has.

[Lithonite]

hrmm this is a good one, i am going to agree with a couple other post. It has to be a contract with the soul, wich is why Kabuto was able to summon manda with his chakra as long as he swiped Oro's contract tattoo.

or perhaps its that tatoo that is at the root of the ability to xfer summoning ability between bodies

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: hornetmike
Well you guys are right. so maybe as sakura and sasuke begin learning about summonings, we'll get more details about the whole thing. God i hope sakura learns something soon, cause she's pissed me off more than any other anime character ever has.


I totally disagree about the idea of Sakura and Sasuke learning summonings.

1. Sakura doesn't have the chakra needed to summon. She's just good at chakra control.
2. Oro just wants Sasuke's body? Why teach him anything? There isn't a need to.
3. Sasuke's the only one who believes that he will acquire skills through Oro. Oro never promised him a thing.


I hope they don't go this route because the foundation just isn't there.


Edit: When Oro stated that he wanted Sasuke to ripen some more (something along those lines), he meant that he wanted an older body, so he was going to wait. We know Oro just want's his physical body (more so for sharingan). Nothing else because a strong body existed in Kimimaro, Sasuke was the only alternative since Kimimaro fell ill.

The original users knowledge would be irrelevant since Oro knows far more than Sasuke. Hence Sasuke seeking Oro. That's why there's no need to train him. At least that's my opinion. It just doesn't make sense.

But I'm sure they're going to do it anyway.

[Lithonite]

Oro will teach Sasuke, he wants his body but he also wants it to be strong. we dont know how much of the origional users ability is left behind when Oro xfers over. we KNOW he wants strong hosts, he will teach sasuke a series of jutsu while he has him even if for no other reason than to stregthen him.

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: Lithonite
Oro will teach Sasuke, he wants his body but he also wants it to be strong. we dont know how much of the origional users ability is left behind when Oro xfers over. we KNOW he wants strong hosts, he will teach sasuke a series of jutsu while he has him even if for no other reason than to stregthen him.

Intelligence is something that can't be taught. It would seem to me almost impossible trying to shove some sense in Sasuke's less than gifted brains. Therefore, Oro is stupid himself, by wanting to take over Sasuke's body. Why not just take his eyes off? It worked for Kakashi. He could take any old body after that.
Besides, Sasuke could go throughout the rest of the Anime playing the part of Oedipus, after ripped off his own eyes. That would be a good excuse for the angst of that kid.
Why not Kabuto? The kid is a well-rounded bastard, I will give you that, but you gotta admit that he has brains, even more so than Oro himself...

[Hyuga Koji]

Look at Kakashi his sharingan is practically useless against Itachi, he has to keep it covered whenever it's not in use, and it drains chakra very fast.

if he's going to have to run up against Itachi (which he will if he takes Sasuke's body) he needs a fully functional one along with the Uchiha blood no knockoff will do.

Kabuto's cunning true but since it's the body he wants that doesn't mean much

[Lithonite]

Sasuke is a genious, Oro, doesnt mess with no talent Nin. He will teach Sasuke- and jsut stealig the eye is pointless as koji just ecplained- Oro wants to be able to defeat Itachi- he is afraid of the mange sharingan, not necessarily Itachi or any other ability. its the mange sharingan Oro needs and edge over, and for him to gain that edge he needs a true succesor of the sharingan.. the only one remaining is Sasuke. So jsut stealing the eye's is not enough, and the reason why he really wants Sasuke is because of the mange sharingan.

and n oKabuto is not smarter or stronger than Oro... no not giveng you that. perhaps more cunning( in the even he is playing Oro for a fool ) but as he is and even Oro without his arms was confident he could take out Kabuto.


in the end i want to see the Kabuto, Kakashi rematch.

[Baka_Desuyo]

Well, like you said, Oro wanted to wait a while for Sasuke to "ripen". But in the meantime, he's going to make sure that Sasuke will stay alive, and you now that Sasuke is likely to do something rash (like more running away). So I think the stage is set to show him how to summon, just in case.

[hornetmike]

True, Oro has no choice but to train sasuke if he doesn't want him to run away. if sasuke thinks that he"s not getting stronger or improving his skills< he"ll run away to someone stronger

[Insomniac]

OK

simple answer to this question

Oro resigns the contract when he swaps bodies with the new blood

[Knives122]

If you ask me it seems like Sasuke and Oro are using each other to get what they want(but one of them one get it) Sasuke wants to become strong so he trains with Oro to do that(he'll probably kill him after), he'll learn all sorts of techniques and strategies will indeed become strong.

Oro wants Sasuke's body(we already know why) but at this point and time sasuke's weak(even though it he has lvl. 2) and wants to deceive him in to becoming his apprentice. Like I said before he'll train and teach him(most likely, how Jaraiya did with Naruto) and when the time is right and Sasuke trusts enough(and eventually he will) Oro will take over his body.

But like I said before only one of them will acheive this goal

[Baka_Desuyo]

I wonder if there's anyway for Oro to basically give a person back their body after he's taken it.

[hornetmike]

I don't think so. doesn't oro kill or destroys your body the longer he stays in it. Your soul is also killed i think.

[originalkrn]

I dont think theyll have Oro take over Sasuke. That would be such a lame ending for Sasuke...

[Baka_Desuyo]

Yeah, that would be anti-clamactic. At least, they couldn't have him possess Sasuke until he killed Itachi. Unless he can give bodies back their souls.

[Assertn]

maybe oro will take over sasuke's body, and naruto will try to awaken the sasuke that remains within, and then there'll be an internal battle inside sasuke's body like there was with sakura vs ino i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
maybe oro will take over sasuke's body, and naruto will try to awaken the sasuke that remains within, and then there'll be an internal battle inside sasuke's body like there was with sakura vs ino i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Why, gods, why?
If Sasuke is asleep let him be.
You never heard about leaving sleeping dogs lie, have you????
Oro is way less annoying and can cause way less damage than Saska. Didn't you see his look in the anime??? And he wasn't even close of level two or any level for that matter.
That kid has issues.

And Hyuga, we were talking so much about blood... Oro can get a transfusion of Sasuke's body, besides rippen his eyes off. Kabuto must be able to do a simple transfusion... huh.. better stop here

What else? Sasuke genius. won't comment. Just thought about repeating because it bears repeating.

Lame ending for Sasuke? Lame character, lame ending.

And speaking of Kabuto, I am coming to admire him more and more... truly a character that grows on you...Always nice to see his obnoxious insulting face on screen.
Man, *I* must have issues...

[SDShamshel]

ManDE Sharingan.

[Baka_Desuyo]

But of course you know it's not going to end that way, that's just not anime style. Unless of course, Naruto breaks from the norm and becomes even more awesome with originality.

[dregen]

I don't know if anybody has mentioned this but I'm going to just say it.

What if Oro had the contract imprinted on his chakra, I mean even if he changes bodies he would still have the same chakra(sp) right. or else that would mean that if he was about to die and had to take the body of an old man to survive, he would't be able to rely on the physical strenght of that body. So I say that the tattoo is linked directly to his chakra. anyhow that's my theory.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Originally posted by: dregen
I don't know if anybody has mentioned this but I'm going to just say it.

What Oro had the contract imprinted on his chakra, I mean even if he changes bodies he would still have the same chakra(sp) right. or else that would mean that if was about to die and the body of an old man to survive he would't be able rely on the physical strenght of that body. So I say that the tattoo is linked directly to his chakra. anyhow that's my theory.

Your theory > your english i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

I like it i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
In my opinion, the Mange Sharingan technique is a cheap and blatant ripoff of Midou Ban's 'Evil Eye' technique, and it was done 10x cooler in Get Backers.

It's kinda off-topic, but I agree with you. All those blood-line abilities and jutsu tricks for me are just like fireworks. We recently had the chance to see on the anime the battle between Oro and the 3rd. The 3rd and also Enma left more than clear what's to be a ninja is all about.
Orochimaru can even attain his goal of getting all the jutsus. He will never be powerful, because that's not what makes a ninja powerful.

[hornetmike]

Hey dregen, at first i was like wtf. But the slowly and i mean slowly it began making sense. it's possible that the contract reacts to his chakra.

Never thought of it myself, but a good idea nonetheless

[Baka_Desuyo]

So, if it was related to his chakra, and he kept his chakra the same in any body, would that mean that his tatoo is like a chakra tatoo or something?

[Assertn]

tattoos are easy to duplicate though

[Baka_Desuyo]

That may be, but there is probably some elaborate jutsu that goes into it to make it less common. If so, who else would have one do you think?

[dregen]

Maybe this the secret that Kabuto is holding back behind that infamoue face.
tell me what you think. Maybe it isn't the same type of tattoo. maybe it's used to open gates or for using one of his jutsus. Can you imagine someone not having to do hand seals to pull off their jutsu and just haveing a pre ordered tech. excuse the joke XD. But seriously that way no one could copy it espiacially if a certain Shirangan (sp) carrying someon. Or it would be alot harder to detect the tech. Who the hell knows tell me what you think.

[Assertn]

well i dont think that the tattoo design itself is supposed to be a secret though.....
its like how naruto uses the 5 hand seals in the right order to summon frogs, anybody could figure out the order and peform the hand seals themselves, but if they dont have the contract made and whatnot, then it wont do anything

[Baka_Desuyo]

Maybe we'll be able to figure out more about this in a few episodes when we see Oro again (sorry if that spoils anything for anyone).