Wait a second...

[Garlannd]

Doesn't Orochimaru have to kill the people to steal their faces? If so doesnt that mean that he was impersonating the Kazekage?

Or can he just duplicate the face of someone? Anyone else sure on this or no? Because if the Kazekage of Sand is dead that could mean a whole lot of trickery has gone on.

[freezel-san]

I'm not positive that he has to kill people in order to steal their faces. It may just be that it is more convenient for them to be dead so that no one knows that there are two people with the same face. Of course, if Kazekage is teaming up with Ochi, he could simply hide in the meantime, and no one would be any the wiser.

[Mut]

this thread was made like 2 weeks ago. just think back to when orochimaru took the faces of those grass nins, that should tell you the answer.

[Stoopider]

Why take their faces?? I thought they could just use their Henge?? It's Orochimaru who was a Leaf we're talking about...

[MemnochTheCaT]

I think it's for two reasons ..

1 - To fool more perceptive ninja like sharingan users who could see through the henge
2- To make Oro more *creepy/evil*

[freezel-san]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
this thread was made like 2 weeks ago. just think back to when orochimaru took the faces of those grass nins, that should tell you the answer.

Uhh.... no. As I just said, that example is inconclusive. And, as Stoopider pointed out, ninjas have other ways of disguising themselves as others (i.e. Henge).

[Terracosmo]

If you only need a bloody henge to become Kazekage, why would Orochimaru risk doing it himself?

[Mut]

Originally posted by: freezel-san


Originally posted by: Mut@t@
this thread was made like 2 weeks ago. just think back to when orochimaru took the faces of those grass nins, that should tell you the answer.

Uhh.... no. As I just said, that example is inconclusive. And, as Stoopider pointed out, ninjas have other ways of disguising themselves as others (i.e. Henge).

Uhh.... no. read terra's response.

[njdevs95]

Well here's what I think......I would die if someone pulled my face off so think about it.

[Assertn]

oro risked doing it himself because he wanted to kill the 3rd himself......

[freezel-san]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
If you only need a bloody henge to become Kazekage, why would Orochimaru risk doing it himself?

risk doing what?

[Stoopider]

Originally posted by: njdevs95
Well here's what I think......I would die if someone pulled my face off so think about it.

I dont think so. Have you seen the Movie "face off"?
Yeah. i get your point. Just trolling.

But then. Did he need to Pull the Kazekage's face offf? I mean.. He's wearing a face scarf. All he needs is just a little eye shadower or some makeup to make him look like the Kazekage.

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
oro risked doing it himself because he wanted to kill the 3rd himself......

Which was his undoing. Proving my theory that he's too passionate to be a good bad guy.
That snake stunt is just for show...he doesn't have any cold blood at all.

As for the face stealing. Now makes sense why Anko didn't reconize him...i/expressions/light.gif
Duh!!! Took me a few months to figure that one out...

[freezel-san]

Wait... does the face-stealing technique really mean that he LITERALLY takes their face? I thought that Ochi had merely mimicked their faces, and killed them so no one would know that he was a copy, and burned their faces off so it would take a while to identify them once their bodies had been found.

[Knives122]

he takes their faces which means that he kills them in the process,

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: Knives122
he takes their faces which means that he kills them in the process,

One of Naraku's bushins did exactly the same thing in Inuyasha. Episode 70 of the anime: The man without a face.
He killed the people he stole the faces from.

[jing]

we dont get to see the face anyways. orochimaru had a cloth over his face. but even if he henges, that would waste a bunch of chakra sitting there and waiting for fights.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Neji-Aniki-sama
Which was his undoing. Proving my theory that he's too passionate to be a good bad guy.
That snake stunt is just for show...he doesn't have any cold blood at all.

what? this doesn't make any sense and it doesn't prove anything. how can you say that orochimaru isn't a good bad guy? did you just happen to miss the part where he was performing experiments on the random nins he captured? that's one of the requirements for a good bad guy; killing own members.

i still don't understand how you can say that he's too 'passionate.' then why do you think orochimaru invaded konoha? just to have a friendly fight with the 3rd, have a long talk with some tea, and then he'll just leave?

i'd say orochimaru is the most cold blooded one we've seen so far. as he is since he's the main bad guy.

and for the henge thing... you guys do realize that if he'd henge'd he would have to waste all that chakra for about a month or longer since he's been planning this the sand for quite some time now?

[The_Fourth]

This Orochimaru face reaping thing reminded me of Silence of the Lambs.

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: jing
we dont get to see the face anyways. orochimaru had a cloth over his face. but even if he henges, that would waste a bunch of chakra sitting there and waiting for fights.

henge is one of the most basic ninjutsu abilities taught at the academy......im sure it takes a very insignificant amount of chakra for a legendary sanin to use it

[MemnochTheCaT]

Yeah, I'm sticking with my theory that by stealing the actual face, it is harder for a ninja to see through than if the imposter was using ordinary henge ..

[Xollence]

I'm sure Oro did kill Kazekage inorder to take his face. Remember back when Gaara was suppose to fight Sasuke and Kaze walks by, Gaara starts to get angry. Maybe because hes mad that Oro killed his father. I don't think the Kazekage would allow the sand to betray the leaf.

[Rek]

I don't think Gaara thought too highly of his father. So, odds are he didn't know. Or he'd be all Oro-tastic

[freezel-san]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Yeah, I'm sticking with my theory that by stealing the actual face, it is harder for a ninja to see through than if the imposter was using ordinary henge ..

That's a good idea.

[jing]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure


Originally posted by: jing
we dont get to see the face anyways. orochimaru had a cloth over his face. but even if he henges, that would waste a bunch of chakra sitting there and waiting for fights.

henge is one of the most basic ninjutsu abilities taught at the academy......im sure it takes a very insignificant amount of chakra for a legendary sanin to use it

Yes but he is preparing himself to fight the 3rd hokage, so i do not think it is wize to waste hours of chakra. Or ANY chakra.

[Mut]

yeah, about henge being one of the most basic jutsus. it just reinforces the fact that someone like the 3rd would see right through a henge so the only possible way of getting by that is a face plant. i am so brilliant.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
yeah, about henge being one of the most basic jutsus. it just reinforces the fact that someone like the 3rd would see right through a henge so the only possible way of getting by that is a face plant. i am so brilliant.

Me and Catloaf agree here i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif Although it is still just a theory, unless they have confirmed this at some point in the manga that I don't remember.

[Kumiriko]

kazakagi's face is coverd. how can you tell whos face it is?

[MemnochTheCaT]

Originally posted by: Kumiriko
kazakagi's face is coverd. how can you tell whos face it is?

People's eyes are VERY distinctive, do you think the 3rd would not immediately notice if he saw a different set of eyes peeking out from the Kazekage headgear? It's almost certain that the two of them met many times beforehand (previous exams, negotiations, etc).

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT


Originally posted by: Kumiriko
kazakagi's face is coverd. how can you tell whos face it is?

People's eyes are VERY distinctive, do you think the 3rd would not immediately notice if he saw a different set of eyes peeking out from the Kazekage headgear? It's almost certain that the two of them met many times beforehand (previous exams, negotiations, etc).

I guess the Hokage can *read* a person way beyond a pair of eyes, to top it all. There are tons of individual characterists that a trained Ninja like the Sandaime can detect in a human being. Orochimaru was his student, since he was a kid. Of course, he could idenfy not only the Kazekage, but Oro himself, if he weren't in a very elaborate disguise.
Anko didn't recognize him, and she got to be way close to him when he was disguised. Later on, when he had lost his disguise, she could feel him at distance. That technique seems to be have been so good, not even Anko's seal was activated when they were close by. I mean, obviously they once had a close relationship, but he could even disguise such connection.
So, it needed to be a real good trick. As a matter of fact, he must also have stolen a third person's face, the one he used to be the Sound jonin at the exam...

[freezel-san]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT


Originally posted by: Kumiriko
kazakagi's face is coverd. how can you tell whos face it is?

People's eyes are VERY distinctive, do you think the 3rd would not immediately notice if he saw a different set of eyes peeking out from the Kazekage headgear? It's almost certain that the two of them met many times beforehand (previous exams, negotiations, etc).

Please to be noting that one's eyes are not part of his face. I agree with you. This makes it even less likely that he simply stole Kazekage's face.

[Raven]

Well, remember how he showed the girl's face for a second to prove he'd swapped bodies, then he just changed back into his normal face in an instant? Maybe he did the same thing for Kazekage's face.

[Vagabond]

Maybe he ate the Mane Mane fruit.....

[Raven]

That would explain it perfectly actually. Seriously.

If it were possible, that is.

[Garlannd]

If he did kill Kazekage and steal his face, how long as he been pulling this stunt off? Has he been pretending to be Kazekage the whole time of the plot to attack leaf?

[Rek]

interesting question... I'll bet we'll find out this weekend tho

[Xollence]

or next weekend... lol

[Rek]

if you wait for Anbu like a good boy/girl

[Baka_Desuyo]

If you remember to when he pulled off his face (so weird to say) in front of the Hokage it looked like he was pulling off like a latex mask or something. So he probably does a weird little trick where he takes the top layers off of his victims and uses it for his own face, and he just uses some weird ninja glue to stick it on his face.
And I'm pretty sure that it was Oro disguised as the Kazekage who decided to attack Konoha, the original one hadn't made those plans, I don't think.
Also, if Anko didn't recognize Oro when he was disguised then Gaara probably wouldn't recognize him as the Kazekage either.

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: Baka_Desuyo
And I'm pretty sure that it was Oro disguised as the Kazekage who decided to attack Konoha, the original one hadn't made those plans, I don't think.
.
Baki and I assume, all the rest of the Suna-nins were also fooled by Oro. Either they are *really* lousy ninjas or the disguise was pretty good.
He also fooled the Hokage. He was there as the Sound-sensei and the Hokage, must have looked at him, and couldn't recognize him. So a very good reason to think the technique was really good.
Yours is a good theory. Hopefully they will explain exactly *when* Oro disguised himself as the Kazekage.
But, even so, the Kazekage himself wasn't much of a good guy.
He did indirectly kill his wife and used his own son as a container for the Shukaku... then to top it all, kept trying to kill the poor kid.
Also, one thing we will never know how he made a deal with the Sand. I mean, both Oro and the Kazekage would have to be together at least once to make the alliance.

[Assertn]

apparently nobody recognized oro in the prelims cause he had his hair up
oh, and a relatively normal outfit too

[Baka_Desuyo]

I thought they showed Oro meeeting with the Kazekage at some point in the series, then again, maybe it's just me.

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
[Q.

i still don't understand how you can say that he's too 'passionate.' then why do you think orochimaru invaded konoha? just to have a friendly fight with the 3rd, have a long talk with some tea, and then he'll just leave?


Well, goes without saying that there a lot of things you don't understand, the meaning of the word passion among then.
You're out of luck, I don't feel like explaining it to you. Uneducated people are boring. Besides, there's Merriam-Webster on line, you should really give it a try. Here's a hint, definition 4c...I am too lenient for my own good, after all.
Were you less ill-mannered, I'd even take my time and explain you why I said what I said. If you really were expecting any kind of serious and civilized answer, you should have used a less obnoxious tone. If you didn't get it so far, you're hopeless. And, yeah, people with a know-it-all attitude wind up learning nothing...
Now, stop clinging to my skirt. Honestly, you're worse than Sakura.
I wouldn't mind to be the surrogate mother you're looking for, but a responsible mother would teach you manners. And you're impervious to that sort of knowledge.
Since I am in a good mood, I won't be as rude as Hyuuga Neji, so instead of giving you his advice to Hinata-sama, kiken shiro, I will be polite and say kiken shite.

[freezel-san]

This brings up an interesting point of whether the Sand knew that Ochi was leading them, or if all but those closest to him thought they were still being led by the old Kazekage... Perhaps the latter, because it would be difficult to keep that kind of secret considering how many spies Konoha has.

[basey44]

if i remeber correctly in the manga there are a few pics refering to this topic, should appear very soon in the next few eps, maybe next week

[Garlannd]

Can't wait to find out if its relevant or not! and Neji-Aniki-Sama you scare me.

[freezel-san]

Originally posted by: Neji-Aniki-sama

Well, goes without saying that there a lot of things you don't understand, the meaning of the word passion among then.
You're out of luck[...]
That was retarded.

[Gods_Son]

You'll probably find out about Kazekage/Oro pretty soon, after ep 80 you're probably gonna be wondering about something else instead though. N-A-S, stop starting fights with the same people over and over again. You seem to always think you're better than the person you fight, if you are, then let it go, and don't start shit in every thread.

v you must really like to aggravate her v

[Mut]

lol wow, such hatred and anger. n-a-s' post is such a typical female response when they're pissy cuz it's that time of the month. ok, i'll just forget about it.

and baka_desuyo... i don't remember the hokage and kazekage ever being together before the finals.

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: Garlannd
Can't wait to find out if its relevant or not! and Neji-Aniki-Sama you scare me.

Thanks. See, that's how a bad guy sounds like...i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
You cannot be passionate to be evil and scary. Hatred is a strong emotion, and the word passion includes *all* strong emotiions, not only love, as most people believe. You can say you hate somebody with a passion. Passion comes from the Greek pathos, which basically means suffering. And also as this meaning of disease as in pathologic or patient, The idea is that something is so powerful and overwhelming that it will possess you and instead of you acting on your own will this strong emotion will be what makes you act. So, you become the patient, not the agent.
When I said Orochimaru was actually a passionate person, I said that because invading Konoha was a passionate act. He did it for revenge. He did it because he spent years harboring hatred and resentment against the 3rd and Konoha. First and foremost, because he was rejected to be a Hokage.
Greed for power of not, and you may also consider greed a passion, there was an affective connection between him and the 3rd. Obviously at one point or another, Oro loved and respected the 3rd.
When he was rejected, and since he's the kind of guy with no understanding of what is *really* needed to be an Hokage, he became totally frustrated. And the love he once had towards the 3rd became deep hatred.
And that strong emotion brewed inside of him for all those years.
Well, Orochimaru stated that his goal was to learn all jutsus and one of the means to attain this is to take over Sasuke's body. In what does invading Konoha help his goal? Absolute nothing. There were several manners to gain trust of Sasuke and kidnap him, without having to destroy Konoha. If he had put his efford in kidnapping Sasuke, he could have had the kid already during the 2nd exam...Kabuto, for one gained the trust of team 7 and he could have taken from there. Anyhow.
Orochimaru invaded Konoha out of hatred and revenge, a.k.a, passions. It had nothing to do with the goal he stated to the 3rd. If he were totally evil, or absolute selfish, evil in my opinion, he wouldn't waste time pursuing his feelings, but would concentrate in getting Sasuke. Real selfish people don't waste time with others, they merely use others, don't have time to have fellings *towards* others.
Revenge is something you do to screw the other person. And besides the pleasure of watching the other person screwed, you don't take any personal benefit from it.
He could have eventually destroyed Konoha, but setting it as his main goal was very stupid, IMO.
Finally, as I stated, the fact that Oro was passionate was his undoing. While pursuing his revenge, he was the one who got screwed. If he wanted all the jutsus, now, he has none. Were he less passionate, there were thousands of less spetacular ways to accomplish his goals, and he might even have killed the 3rd in the process.
Besides, Oro is a piss poor strategist. He lived in Konoha, he should have known better that there would be guys with byakugan and all sorts of ninja fireworks to oppose him. A handful of Sand and Sound nin with a bib-wearing three-headed snake together with a sleeping spell that even Sakura could avoid, clearly weren't enough.
If he had a spy like Kabuto, he should have gathered intelligence about the village, instead. Neutralizing the Hyuugas and jounins like Kakashi and such, should have been a priority. See, he had two goals destroying Konoha and getting Saska...and didn't get any of them.
The fact is, he managed to get inside Konoha... but leaving there safe and sound he didn't. It's easy to invade a country... taking over it is a whole different ballgame.
IMO, Kabuto is much more of a bad guy than him. He's cold, knows how to run away when necessary, which Oro doesn't He is an accomplished doormat, and I mean by that, even if he has to take all sorts of abuse from Oro, he does that not because he loves Oro, but because doing that serves to advance his own agenda. A passionate person wouldn't tolerate that. So, he is there, putting up with a despicable snake, silently, watching and waiting, to stab him in the back, without passion. And he will do that, not in a risky and spetacular manner with which tried to destroy Konoha. But quietly and efficient, as a good evil guy should act.
Personally, I could say I hate Kabuto with a passion. Oro is scary and disgusting and all, but Kabuto is the pinnacle of insuferability. His nice guy subservient appearance does it for me. And in a story, what should a bad guy accomplish? Be hated and abhorred by everybody, with a passion...
And yeah, that was long and off-topic. But if I said what I said about Oro, it wasn't without a great deal of thinking. It would have been easier to say Oro sucks, but that's boring and not exactly news.

[Garlannd]

Let me clarify I mean you scare me like you're some kind of pyscho soccer mom person. Sure they could be a villan but I don't think you'd see many mini van insane soccer moms causing mass mayhem and death.

[Mut]

AAAAAAAAAAAhahahaha

funny sig dude. what happened to that elia guy.

[Hokage Naruto]

Aww man someone already madea forum about this a few days ago and i thought up a great idea. its in the form wats the deal about orochimaru's faces?

[Baka_Desuyo]

Mut@t@, I didn't say Hokage and Kazekage met before the finals, I said Oro and Kazekage. Oh well, doesn't really matter anyways.

[Rek]

Wow... that was a very, very long post.... and all I got from it was Oro creeps you out, and Kabuto sickens you...

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: Konoha Rek
Wow... that was a very, very long post.... and all I got from it was Oro creeps you out, and Kabuto sickens you...

True. But, in order to get to that, I had to do some research and gather facts to support my statements.
Huh, that's sorta like Western Scientific thought works. Some people don't like to say/hear stuff such without factual support. Like when you were a kid your father told you not to do something, and you asked why, and he answered because. That kinda pisses kids off, at least pissed me off. Anyway. no law forcing anyone not to say stuff just because...
But if you are happy with Oro and Kabuto suck, there, I wrote it for you. Sorry for the long post.

[Baka_Desuyo]

Interesting progression, going from the intro and its inconsistencies to hating Oro and Kabuto with a "passion". Amazing how people get off topic so easily (I'm one to talk).

[Neji-Aniki-sama]

Originally posted by: Baka_Desuyo
Interesting progression, going from the intro and its inconsistencies to hating Oro and Kabuto with a "passion". Amazing how people get off topic so easily (I'm one to talk).

well, I made a simple observation that was contested. I really didn't need to prove my point, but believe it or not, some people like what I write. I myself was a bit flabbergasted, when I got that information... You go figure! Takes all kinds, ne?
And, huh, I don't exactly hate Kabuto with a passion. More like it was a bit of an hyperbolical statement, coming from the fact that I actually do talk with a passion i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

[Tass]

lolz...you gotta defend yourself every post dont ya Neji-Aniki-sama? why do people feel the need bash the people that do exactly what you are supposed to do on a forum? talk..!

and again with anti-off-topic-ness...so what!? i enjoy writing and reading what ever feels good at that moment...what does it matter what the thread tital is? sometimes i think we crave order and organization more then the forum itself...whats the point?

and come on rek, i know you got more out of N-A-s's post then that...you are a very smart high school student riiiight?!?! =P

[LostAngel]

Orchi was trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. He underestimated the village bc all he focused on was how to take care of the Hokage. He was leaving Kabuto to kidnap Sasuke, which was a bad idea. I want more info and back story on Kabuto before I say anything about him other than his freaking cool bad guy. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, thats why I think he hangs with Orchi.

Kazekage is a freakin bastard. Just for what he done to Gaara his own son lets you know he should die a horrible death. He should die in prison and rot in hell with guaneria (how ever you spell it). I think he is worst than Orchi and Kabuto!!

[Gods_Son]

Tass, the reason people get mad about off-topic posts is because it can be considered spam. If you want to talk about something else, you can make another thread about it. I can understand wanting to talk about whatever comes to mind though, and N-A-S, you really do defend every post. Could be because of your passion in each post, but you can still let some comments about your posts slide. Personally, I don't think Kabuto is that bad, he's just cunning and knows what's best to get what he wants. Orochimaru is pretty useless by himself now that he has no arms, and we'll find out about Kazekage later on.

[Mut]

true that orochimaru is somewhat defenseless without his arms against other strong ninjas like jiraiya, but orochimaru IS a sannin. i'm sure he is still quite the dangerous fellow. i'm pretty sure at this point, kakashi can take him out.

[LostAngel]

Hell yeah, but he might find someone who can heal him or something. I am sure there is someone out there strong enough to make his arms work again. Why else would they keep him alive and let him escape?? Kabuto might be able to do it somehow or know someone since he was like a medical student.

[IamSpazzy]

What happens if he teaches some dumb schmuck the body replacement jitsu and tricks that person into using it. Will he get the use of his arms back?

[tensai]

im not sure but can oros hands be healed, its not like they are hurt or anything, its like his arms went numb forever.
his connection with it is gone, the soul? of the arm was removed from the original owner.
i think that if the arm was cut off instead of its soul? or whatever was taken, then theres still a possibility to replace them with surgery or something. but a soul is a very different thing.
oh well, ill have to see whats gonna happen in the future to see if om wrong or anything.

[Baka_Desuyo]

Just a theory, but I think that because Kabuto is so cunning, he might backstab Oro at some point when he's weak, just seems like something he would do. Any thoughts?

[LostAngel]

I think he will. Orchi doesn't trust him very much, he even though he might kill Sasuke at one time when he wanted him to kidnap him. So Orchi is aware that he probably will backstab him. But Kabuto hides behind Orchi, he lets him do all the dirty work, so I think he might still want to use him as at his advantage. Just what I kind of think.

[freezel-san]

Originally posted by: LostAngel
Orchi was trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. He underestimated the village bc all he focused on was how to take care of the Hokage.
IMO, even more than he underestimated Konoha, Orochimaru underestimated Hokage. If the battle had gone as expected, he would have defeated him, and then proceeded to beat the crap out of everyone in Konoha himself without a doubt. Also, all of those who considered Gaara to be their ace in the hole clearly underestimated Naruto and Sasuke big time.



Originally posted by: Baka_Desuyo
Just a theory, but I think that because Kabuto is so cunning, he might backstab Oro at some point when he's weak, just seems like something he would do. Any thoughts?
Recall that Kabuto already kind of DID try to backstab Oro by trying to kill Sasuke at the hospital. So yeah, they aren't exactly best buddies. ;-)

[Garlannd]

LostAngel I can see why you call Kazekage a bastard for locking away that sand monster in Gaara. Especially seeing as he had people try to kill him and did alot of pyschological harm to Gaara's mind. Making him even more unstable.

However, how different is it from what was done to Naruto by the 4th? There is alot of pyschological harm still to Naruto and no assassins trying to kill him every ive minutes. There still is alot of hatred towards him by the villagers. The way you said your post made it sound like the pure fact he could imprison a monster into someone like that is why hes bad.

I personally think if you were to do that to someone that means you have a great deal in faith of their ability to contain the demons. However it is clear that Gaara was created just as a weapon. Whereas Naruto was meant to be seen as a hero who could contain a demon that threatened their village.

Judging by Gaara's monster I'd say that most likely was a threat to their village as well but instead they decided to use it as a weapon.

On a sad note I can't post at home because for some reason my computer won't let me click reply/quote/login buttons. Also it will not let me download any form of Java cuz its windows XP hooray for microsucks.

Also Mut@t@ thanks for the compliment on my sig.

[Baka_Desuyo]

The difference between Kazkage and the Fourth was that the fourth locked Kyubi inside Naruto for the good of the village, whereas Kazekage did it more for his own personal gain. The Third even said that the Fourth wanted Naruto to be thought of as a hero. So that's the main difference.

[Garlannd]

Yea I said that if you read the whole thing. The way he made it sound though put the fourth and kazekage on the same level. Which they are totally not.

[LostAngel]

Originally posted by: Garlannd
LostAngel I can see why you call Kazekage a bastard for locking away that sand monster in Gaara. Especially seeing as he had people try to kill him and did alot of pyschological harm to Gaara's mind. Making him even more unstable.

However, how different is it from what was done to Naruto by the 4th? There is alot of pyschological harm still to Naruto and no assassins trying to kill him every ive minutes. There still is alot of hatred towards him by the villagers. The way you said your post made it sound like the pure fact he could imprison a monster into someone like that is why hes bad.

I personally think if you were to do that to someone that means you have a great deal in faith of their ability to contain the demons. However it is clear that Gaara was created just as a weapon. Whereas Naruto was meant to be seen as a hero who could contain a demon that threatened their village.

Judging by Gaara's monster I'd say that most likely was a threat to their village as well but instead they decided to use it as a weapon.

On a sad note I can't post at home because for some reason my computer won't let me click reply/quote/login buttons. Also it will not let me download any form of Java cuz its windows XP hooray for microsucks.

Also Mut@t@ thanks for the compliment on my sig.

True I know. But like you said the 2 differences is what makes it good or bad. Kazekage only craves power and doesn't care much for his village other than the power he has over it and the 4th loves and cares for his and wanted to protect it with all his heart.

Now that Naruto beat the sand demon, does that means his dead and Gaara can finally get a good nights sleep? If it does I bet he will sleep for weeks! lol

[tensai]

just a minor thought, but if gaara was beaten and he became unconsious, wouldn't the sand demon bust out again and take form. I was just wondering about that.

[Garlannd]

That is a tiffy. However, if Oro did kill kaze and steal his face perhaps it was oro demanding the power. If this is the case then Oro has been playing sand all along.

[LostAngel]

Thats what I thought that Orchi had killed the Kage, but it never shows the Kazekage face because its all covered up so he could be using another jutsu. At least I dont remember them ever showing it.

[Baka_Desuyo]

Garlannd, sorry, guess I didn't read the whole thing.
Anyways, the only time you saw Kazkage's face was in Gaara's flashbacks, and I don't think it was Oro way back then.
As for the Shukaku coming out when Gaara's only unconcious, I suppose that might only happen if he was still in the right form, not human.