Stuttering 78+ intro?

[Mongoose]

Technical question: is anyone else getting some ghosting during the episode 78 intro? The background and characters seem to be stuttering some and blurring while they're scrolling. I also looked at the Shin Otaku sub, which doesn't exhibit any stuttering for the intro. Is it my machine being too slow, or the encoding on the episode not being able to keep up or something?

[ELiA]

From what I've heared here... this means you have downloaded the bakasan-version.

[Kale Ironfist]

ive got the bakasan version, and it seems fine

your machine perhaps?

[ELiA]

maybe you should try playing it in the divx-player. I have an episode, 49, which only works that way, otherwise I get no sound/video.

[NL|MegaMika]

No problems here. Tell some more about your pc (Hz, RAM etc), and the player you use.

I recommend Zoomplayer, best I've ever tried.

[Black_Challenger08]

For Bakasan's version, you need the latest Xvid codec, go download that and it will work perfectly.

[Toruxxx]

i had probs with Bakasan's version in winamp but worked perfectly fine in wmp when i used it.

[Mongoose]

I'm watching the ANBU/AONE version, on a 1 Ghz P3 with a GeForce 440 and 512 MB RAM, using WMP 9. I installed the ffshow codec package, dated 5/23/2003. I've been watching the A/A releases mainly, haven't had any problems before. The ghosting isn't a huge problem, but it ruins the intro a little. There's no sound stuttering or anything, the background images that scroll by during the intro just look like they're chugging, so there's double lines. The S-O version manages to scroll without any stuttering in the intro.

[Nova]

I had a problem with the S-O one, but both the Bakasan and Anbu/AonE are fine for me. Probably it was just my computer needing a reboot or something, maybe you have the same problem. I think if it was the codec you probably wouldn't see it at all... it probably something with your computer, maybe other programs running or not rebooting after a long time, or maybe just close/open media player i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif?

Or maybe try just redownload the file.

[TheRaider]

install the latest ffdshow.. link:
FFDSHOW (http://dvd.box.sk/index.php?pid=soft&prj=info&pol=0&rid=7885)

[Mongoose]

I installed the latest version of fddshow, still the same problem. I'm not sure it'd be a problem with the codec, anyway, as the rest of the episode plays fine, and all my other A/A eps look fine. It's just the intro that looks funky.

To illustrate what I mean about the ghosting, here are two screenshots of the same frames from the A/A intro (left) and the S-O intro (right). I took all of these while playing back the files in VirtualDub and going frame-by-frame until I got a match, so these are single frame screencaps.

***SPOILER SPACE for those who haven't seen the new intro***















http://ameritech.net/users/sherwintam/AAblur1.jpg

This first one shows the scrolling background, which blurs in the A/A ep as it scrolls to the left.

http://ameritech.net/users/sherwintam/AAblur2.jpg

This next one shows ghosting on Rock and Gai, which isn't present in the S-O frame.

[Knives122]

i dont see any thing make it work man

[kasuga]

The problem isn't with your codecs or anything, its the group's encoding. The new OP and ED are 30fps while the episode is 24fps. Shin-Otakus encoded in 29.97fps which makes their OP and ED smooth, but you may notice that the ep itself may stutter. Aone/ANBU did theirs in 24fps making the OP and ED stutter but the ep doesn't stutter. Because the OP and ED is 30fps and the Episode itself is 24fps, the only way to make it smooth is to convert it to 120fps since 120 is divisible by both 30 and 24. There is a way to do a pseudo-120fps encode with drop frames but I doubt the encoders know how to do it since they didn't do it back during episodes 26-54. So until Naruto gets a new OP and ED that is 24fps, it will always appear like it stutters.

[Mongoose]

Alright, that makes sense. The lower encoding is merging the original frames together, then. Is there any way for me to do the pseudo-encoding myself, or is it just something the encoders have to do?

[kasuga]

No, there's nothing you can do. You can re-encode it mixing S-O's and A/A's or just resub it yourself with a raw maybe...but I doubt you'd wanna do that.

[Mongoose]

Bummer. Thanks for the response, though.

[njdevs95]

Try going to www.videolan.org and download the newest version of vlc player it's always my failsafe player if I can't get a file to play or play correctly on wmp, zoomplayer or divx player then I go to vlc and it has yet to let me down.

[bitwar]

Why were they at different frame rates? How were they at different frame rates? I figured the TV transmission would have been the same frame rate, thus the raw being equal, thus the subbed episode being equal? Did they encode the opening converted to 30 fps first, and then add the episode which was still at 24 fps? If that's the case, could they not take the extra time to convert the episode to 30 fps, and then combine them after that? I don't quite know how they do things, this is just a possibility that my limited knowlege came up with, so I'd like to know what's really going on. Thanks.

[complich8]

they air at different framerates.... tv signals support multiple specs, so 24 or 30 both are "legal" for broadcast....

they made it 30 for some incomprehensible reason that nobody really understands, but basically video producers claim that it's cheaper to produce 30fps animation/cg sequences than 24fps ones.

Our options when we encoded this were:
(a) Encode down to 24fps, get some jerkiness in the opening, make up for it with compression savings in the episode itself. (This is also consistent with all our previous eps).
(b) Encode up to 30fps, get maybe slight jerkiness in the ep itself sometimes (not good, but not likely much) and make it harder to compress (lose quality keeping stuff at 175 megs/ep)
(c) Encode up to 120fps, get no jerkiness, get slightly tougher compression, and most importantly leave behind the people watching on systems at or below about 800 mhz (not acceptable, too much bitching to be had)
(d) make an mkv with different framerate opening and main section, get the advantages of both framerates, and get stuck teaching 80,000 leechers how to use mkv and being told we suck by the people who are too stupid to figure it out.

Obviously, a has ok benefits and mild drawbacks, b has enough drawbacks that our encoder wasn't enthusiastic about it (and he's a guru, so ....), c isn't acceptable as said, and d doesn't work too well either. We chose the option that our encoder was willing to do that didn't involve us doing mkv tech support for the next year or so.

[Mongoose]

Would it be possible perhaps for ANBU/AonE to release just the openings/endings encoded with the proper fps? I can't be the only person who likes collecting intros and endings with snappy songs separately from the episode, and I'd love to get my hands on clear A/A subbed versions of, say, the 2nd and 4th openings... i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[kasuga]

There is option (e) and make a pseudo 120fps encode like TW's. Adding in drop frames would only increase the encode by about 2MB for a regular 24 min episode.

[complich8]

errm, kasuga: e is c. add drop frames, make effective frame rate 120fps. Regardless of the fact that those frames are relatively light, they are still too heavy to decode for the lower end watchers. TW was doing this and caught flak for it because the slower tier couldn't see it. While I'm all about getting people to use computers that aren't complete shit, it's not something we could force on the audience in general -- especially since several of the fansub crew members are in that group of people who can't watch 120fps anything. Until we can get some of our own crew members to get off their asses and buy modern machines, how can we expect anyone else to?

On a side note, I've never seen a "true" 120fps encode of anything. Pretty much nobody does that, and if they did it'd be a huge waste of data space. I have seen a lot of 120fps raws, and the ones I've seen are all "pseudo 120fps" like you are talking about. Back when I was using my athlon 1.33 for everything, a 24fps or 30fps divx 5 raw (frame rate courtesy of avisynth) ran around 20-40% cpu load, where a 120fps ran 80-90%.

[bitwar]

That's really odd about the different frame rates on TV. Why don't they do the whole show in one if they can air both? Oh well, we can't affect how they air their shows, so we can only grin and bear it and enjoy the episodes. Though I would like a non-shakey opening as mongoose said. But hey, I'm greatful for what I got.

[TheEvil1]

i have both the SO subs and the Anbu subs for 78 and 79, SOs do teh stuttering thing in divx player and winamp 5 but not WMP9, the anbu subs do the stuttering in Winamp and divx player also but not WMP9, these are teh only eps that do it 1-77 are fine, with the exception of 1 ep in ther ebut i used teh fourCC changer from xvid to change it and it worked fine

and its not just the openings that stutter for me its the whole episode

o my comp is a Athlon Xp1700+ Gig of PC 2700 Ram 3 HDs, 250 gigs total Win XP Pro GF4 TI4600