Eps 78 & 79 [Archive] - Gotwoot Forums

Aegis Runestone

Fri, 04-16-2004, 03:43 PM

Not to mention that no one else would've had been able to control Kyubi's chakra except Naruto. The Hokage commented on it when he saw Naruto fight Neji and he was amazed. This obviously means that it is VERY difficult to control Kyubi, Naruot can control him because he can blackmail Kyubi and the fox seems to love Naruto's courage to stand up to him. Kyubi is also probably willing to give his power to Naruto because it allows a part of him to fight again.

And also remember it was KYUBI who was damaging Nartuo's Chakra control. If Kyubi wasn't there, Naruto could have been a very good hard-working-type Ninja like Lee. He practiced Techniques every day, but he always failed because he has no chakra control BECAUSE OF KYUBI. With Kyubi, Naruto is now a sort of hybrid ninja, one who works hard and is a genius. Besides, Sasuke has the cursed seal, the Chidori and the Sharingan and you think he's fair?(I do, because I think all the characters are fair) I think you guys need to stop whining so much. There is too much character bashing on this board; all the characters have their own strengths and weaknesses, there are no restrictions and there is no such thing as "cheap" moves.

Another thing, Gaara lost because he was full of hate and Naruto was full of love because he wanted to protect someone else. Love is more powerful than hate, if Naruto had been selfish and wanted to save his own skin, Kyubi's power wouldn't have saved him, he would have died.

gokudagreat

Fri, 04-16-2004, 03:48 PM

ugh everyone keeps arguing over this, how bout everyone just admits this.... Naruto has alot of determination and will to fight for his dreams, and that allows him to become very strong, whether the kyubi chakra makes him strong, or his own chakra makes him strong, he is strong because of his determination and especially because of the will to protect his friends... i think everyone can agree on that?

Rek

Fri, 04-16-2004, 03:49 PM

Ah... thats a little wrong....

Naruto practiced so much because he wanted to be powerful. Because He wanted to be hokage. Because he wanted recognition. Because the village hated him. Because he has a demon in his belly.

So, he prolly wouldn't train as hard. And the reason he had no chakra control is because the seal was uneven. Notice how his chakra got sooooo much better after Ero sennin punched him in the stomach.

gokudagreat

Fri, 04-16-2004, 03:52 PM

the reason the seal was uneven is cause orochimaru made it that way in fear of what Naruto could become, thankfully jiraiya undid it

come on, you guys are totally not giving credit where credit is deserved, Naruto is more than just the average joe, even without the kyubi.

plus, remember in the episode where naruto has defeating neji, and all the jounins are saying that its amazing he can control the fox demons power without losing control, THATS WHY HE IS AMAZING, he has to have determination and alot of strength on his own to be able to handle that, so there...lol

Kurapica

Fri, 04-16-2004, 04:36 PM

Naruto is probably on chuunin/jounin level, but has not all the capacities (yet) to become a leader figure like a hokage. Besides that he has to rely too much on the chakra from the nine tales which makes his power kinda unpredictable.

NewGuyinTown

Fri, 04-16-2004, 05:26 PM

Naruto just completed an A-rank mission, which only given to Jounins. Completing it means he's qualify for a jounin.

He himself already possess alot of chakra as a genin (even more than a normal chuunin)... He only needed A BIT of Kyuubi's chakra to defeat Gaara... Imagine how strong he would be if he uses all of Kyuubi's chakra. I bet he can even put a good fight with the 3rd Hokage (if he doesn't use that Death Demon Technique) if he max out his chakra.

Mut

Fri, 04-16-2004, 05:38 PM

haha look at all these experts come in and speak their minds.

listen guys...i'll address a lot of things.

do i always have to straighten you guys out...? cmon...

naruto is not chuunin worthy or jounin worthy. he is a genin right now for a reason. he has a lot of power, yes it's chuunin/jounin power, but the thing is...if he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did. obviously naruto is strong (whether it is hokage's or gamakichi's strength or whatever) but he doesn't have the brains and skills to become a chuunin, let along a jounin. he sucks. i'll say it again, he sucks as a ninja. his ability to fight isn't gonna help me when he runs into someone like haku, zabuza, or orochimaru. naruto will get killed. his ninja skills are border-line mediocre.

ELiA

Fri, 04-16-2004, 06:03 PM

No, you silly one! Read this (bitch)!!!

If he was not that strong, who would they call the show "naruto"???

Mut

Fri, 04-16-2004, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by: ELiA
No, you silly one! Read this (bitch)!!!

If he was not that strong, who would they call the show "naruto"???

is this a rhetorical question? wtf?

NoKKiE

Fri, 04-16-2004, 06:10 PM

everyone in leaf village is so good average is pretty freaking good

ELiA

Fri, 04-16-2004, 06:13 PM

It's as rhetorical as "are you never wrong?"

Mut

Fri, 04-16-2004, 06:23 PM

this is getting way OT, but i'll answer it and i'll be done with it.

of course it's rhetorical. just look at my sig dude. it says it's a fact.

if you got more obvious things to ask me, just PM me, buddy. i'll be glad to answer your questions.

ELiA

Fri, 04-16-2004, 06:26 PM

I am a 'n00b', by forum-terms. What is PM (post menstruation?? just kidding)?

Toruxxx

Fri, 04-16-2004, 06:29 PM

EliA stop mouthing off to ppl plz and stop changing the subject topic as u being a n00b has nothing to do about 78 & 79.

ELiA

Fri, 04-16-2004, 06:50 PM

Should I open a "what is a PM" topic? Rather not right, could you please tell me how to PM Mut@t@??

I ask this very kindly.

HimizujinEternia

Fri, 04-16-2004, 06:58 PM

I will admit, Naruto's definitely not Chuunin level. Of the people that took the exam, only Shikamaru and maybe Temari deserve the rank. At least they plan their way through things in fights (although Temari was a rather cocky B**** when fighting Tenten.)

itsgalf

Fri, 04-16-2004, 07:01 PM

Did anyone else catch when Naruto said "I must protect everybody"? Just relate that quote back to when the 3rd Hokage said the same thing, Naruto is starting to grow and is beginning to have more and more hokage traits.

ELiA

Fri, 04-16-2004, 07:16 PM

didn't see 78 or 79 yet, but I also think that naruto is getting more 'responsible'. I have a question, do you see the fifth in above mentioned episodes? I friend told me it will be a woman, is this true?

Tass

Fri, 04-16-2004, 07:26 PM

AHHH!!! shh shh shh! my poor ears...i hate spoilers! no one verify that plz! i dont read the manga, i dont want to know untill i see it!! gurr EliA...you cant say things like that! =(

Mut

Fri, 04-16-2004, 07:28 PM

absolutely no spoilers allowed in the anime forum.

and if you really wanna pm just click on that button http://forums.gotwoot.net/include/themes/test/toolbar_privmsg.gif

if it's gonna be something stupid...just don't bother.

Elessar

Fri, 04-16-2004, 07:47 PM

First of all, Naruto is at a good genin level. He has the power for chuunin rank, but lacks the experience, instinct and brain. So why is this show called Naruto? Because a show without any character development is boring like hell.

To the gamabunta summoning.... Naruto says it himself, he used up his chakra for the mass kage bunshin. In the manga it is clearly shown that he summons bunta with direct kyuubi chakra. Being inside desert funeral is a life threat situation like when he felt off the cliff or even against Haku. Kyuubi's survival instincts kick in at those times without the need for Naruto to explicitly request chakra.
I know he talked to kyuubi in the clii scene, wakattemasu, but believe me on this one.

The things AssertnFail talked about, increased stamina due to a life with the demon fox, are basically results from the manga/open section that we got in endless discussions. Please trust us on this one too, there were a lot of people with a much bigger informational background involved (due to the manga).

Guess ELiA won't make his 30 posts bfore his 1st warning.

Shinji Ikari

Fri, 04-16-2004, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by: itsgalf
Did anyone else catch when Naruto said "I must protect everybody"? Just relate that quote back to when the 3rd Hokage said the same thing, Naruto is starting to grow and is beginning to have more and more hokage traits.

Hey! I reacted on the same thing. I think Naruto is the only one with "heart" enough to become the nr 1 ninja in Konoha village.

Everybody talks about him not being a great ninja, but is he all that bad? Is he any worse than Chouji, Hinata, Rock Lee, Tenten, Sakura, Neji or even Sasuke?

The show is probably called "Naruto" because the creatore likes fish cakes so much i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif Oh, probably not... In the end, I think this show is about understanding and growing up as a person with good moral values and other stuff like that. Naruto has been chosen as the person to learn this to the others in this anime. Sakura couldn't have done it, she is to selfabsorbed, Sasuke couldn't do it, he's to vindictive, Rock Lee could have made his own show, but then it wouldn't be Naruto, and it wouldn't be about these things.

This is what i think, and i don't care how weak or strong anybody says that he is, he is the strongest at heart, and that matters more than shit load of crap that comes out of the lot of your mouths.

winnydapoo

Fri, 04-16-2004, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
haha look at all these experts come in and speak their minds.

listen guys...i'll address a lot of things.

do i always have to straighten you guys out...? cmon...

naruto is not chuunin worthy or jounin worthy. he is a genin right now for a reason. he has a lot of power, yes it's chuunin/jounin power, but the thing is...if he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did. obviously naruto is strong (whether it is hokage's or gamakichi's strength or whatever) but he doesn't have the brains and skills to become a chuunin, let along a jounin. he sucks. i'll say it again, he sucks as a ninja. his ability to fight isn't gonna help me when he runs into someone like haku, zabuza, or orochimaru. naruto will get killed. his ninja skills are border-line mediocre.

How do you measure what level somebody is at? Is it documented somewhere? Can you show us? is it even tangible?

"if he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered" -- Just your opinion, only the author of the series knows if its right, purely hypothetical.

Regarding your other "fact", the 80% Kyuubi 20% Naruto thing, then sasuke is 80% Sharingan 20% Sasuke, Neiji is 80% Hyuuga 20% Neiji, and Chouji is 80% Korean BBQ/Ramen and 20% Chouji hahahaha!

I agree with you that Naruto's ninja skills are not the best, but he compensates that with chakra stamina and strength don't you think? I mean, against Haku he deflected the needles with chakra alone, which was quite cool. Yes it comes from kyuubi but he controls it, so its still his advantage, just like sharingan is sasuke's advantage. Everyone has their pluses and minuses I think.

IamSpazzy

Sat, 04-17-2004, 12:08 AM

PM is private message. For the question that was asked before

And Mutata should get off his "I've read the manga high horse". Things change from manga to anime. Most recent is when Naruto used Kyubi's chakra. Blue Chakra flame + lack of kyuki flame chakra startup could be a conscious decision by the animators to change around the story a bit.

CapsuleCorpJX

Sat, 04-17-2004, 12:24 AM

No I'm pretty sure Naruto summoned the toad boss with his own chakra. At the end, right before his final head butt attack on Gaara, he summons the kyuubi chakra, and you can see that red chakra STARTING to flow through his coils. I doubt Kyuubi will be bothered to give him chakra twice, or that Naruto would NEED kyuubi to give him more power a second time.

Stoopider

Sat, 04-17-2004, 12:45 AM

Nah. Naruto is still a gennin. Not a Chunnin or even a Jounin.

If you ask me, I wouldn't rank Chunnin's or Jounnin's just based that they can beat strong people. I think we should look at it at a more technical level.

Naruto's basics is very very poor. So is his Chakra control. However non the doubt, he has gargantous ammounts of chakra. (Which some argue he can summon Gammabunta or full Kage bunshin without using the Kyuubi, but there's no point arguing about it).

Not only is his basic's poor. So is his Taijitsu. You look at Rock Lee fighting or even Sasuke fighting. Naruto's fighting style of jumping straight at you with his fist is like seeing a 5 year old kid. I personally think Sakura's Taijitsu can beat the shit out of Naruto. You look back at the battle vs Ino, she controlled her Chakra around her body to run faster and do harder blows.

And as for that. So is his Ninjitsu. Either than his norm (Kage Bunshin, Sexy no Jutsu.. whatever), He doesn't seem to be fighting more intelligently using the other Jutsu's. However Naruto has flashes of brilliance once in a while. If only he is more consistent.

Overall, Naruto is or will be overwhelmingly powerful. Thats why he has the most potential. But he needs to buck up really on the simpler basics. I'm sure if you give a few more years for Jiraiya to train him without disturbances, you would see a monster of a Naruto.

gokudagreat

Sat, 04-17-2004, 01:13 AM

thats just not true though, in multiple battles naruto makes incredibly smart tactical moves during the heat of battle: first battle against zabuza, battle against kiba, battle against gaara etc.

It is true that he doesnt know alot of jutsus, but hes young, and he will learn

I hate to make this comparison, but Naruto is like Goku in some aspects, for instance Goku is a complete idiot but when it comes to the heat of battle, he is ingenious strategically and the same goes for Naruto, he may not know alot of Jutsus or be the brightest, but he has a determination like no other and he is incredibly smart in the heat of battle, hes just rough around the edges

saeadeb

Sat, 04-17-2004, 01:15 AM

I'd also say Genin is right for Naruto. If some jounin rank guy as big as a mountain comes along and wants to trade chakra blasts, he can beat them. If they act like a ninja he'd probobly never know what killed him. He really never seems to fight that much better than Sakura unless he gets emotional or whatever and then he doesn't really fight any better either, he just hits harder. Naruto is still the man, though.

Nova

Sat, 04-17-2004, 01:45 AM

Well let's see.

Naruto as a person is dumb. He often doesn't even understand whats going on around him, however that said he has a very good combat sense, using his Jutsu's wisely (even though sometimes it doesn't seem all that wise at the start) - The first Zabuza, Neji, and Gaara semi-Transformed fight show this.
He has an incredible amount of determination, and becomes even more powerful when fighting for a precious person. And it seems that everyone he gets to know seems to become a precious person, maybe like the 4th who was said to think of every villager as a precious person. Naruto certainly isn't quite there yet but maybe getting closer.
His skill in Genjutsu, and Taijutsu is low, and his Ninjutsu is average for a genin ninja of Konoha.
However he is improving. Like Lee with Taijutsu, threw simple hardwork and determination he is becoming better at Ninjutsu, mostly through the walking on water, and earlier the tree climing excersises. However he has tremendous power, and stamina (mostly thanks to Kyuubi) but definately not only thanks to Kyuubi. Even when hes not using pure Kyuubi power it is stated that their chakras are mixing so even the "blue" naruto chakra is more abundant because of Kyuubi, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't already alot of his own anyway. I think Genin is still perfect for Naruto, even though he defeats Gaara (who is at least a jounin level battle). Although Naruto has an amazing sheer amount of power (his punches seem to hurt ALOT even though they are simple as far as style goes) his technique control and style, and overall understanding of the situations around him isn't even at Chuunin level. So in short, even though he is probably as powerful as some Jounin, and could probably beat some of them thanks to his combat inventiveness and Kyuubi's power he should continue working on those basic skills.

Basicly once he becomes less naive of things and smartens up a little bit (grows up), and trains a little bit more on the basic jutsu's and fighting techniques, then combines those with his own creativity and his other strong points, it'll be a short trip from Genin -> Jounin.

complich8

Sat, 04-17-2004, 04:51 AM

I'm going to relate this to hunter x hunter instead of dbz, because dbz has no definite "ranks" or "stages" in growth, other than "kicked everyone's ass" and "kicked everyone's ass by going super saiyajin [2,3,4]". I'll try to avoid spoiling hxh plot too much...

In hunter x hunter, the first 30odd episodes are devoted to gon getting his hunter license card. I'd equate that to passing the "student" phase of ninja life. The hunter exams serve as a basic skills selection thing.... the students in naruto becoming genins are about on the same level. Genins and newbie hunters are about on the same level: they're new to actually doing things. There's a whole iceberg they don't know anything about.

In hunter x hunter, there's a "hidden exam" that people who really deserve to be hunters find and take. It involves being introduced to and learning to survive in the world of the whole iceberg, instead of just the tip. I'd call that the equivalent of chuunin -- you can grasp the situation, you can think your way out of situations, you're generally ready to be sent to do stuff on your own. Not saying the hardest stuff, not "go take down this country" but "go and kill this person" or "go and do this mission" -- that is to say, you're still learning and improving, but you're clearly better than a complete newbie. In hunter, you have years more training to do to get to the "completed" level, but you've demonstrated that you can make it that far and you have some proficiency in the field.

Chuunin is elite in that a relatively small number of people will make it there. But at the same time nobody ever said chuunin was "you have completed your training" -- which is why they give them the lower rank missions. I think most chuunin missions would have a somewhat clear path to follow. Take for example Naruto, Sakura and Shikimaru's mission they're on right now ... the path was clear: "chase down sasuke and stop him from chasing gaara any further" -- easy enough. In the process, gaara's comrades tried to shake sasuke and tried to delay naruto's team as well... and a complication arose. Dumb luck and determination are what kept naruto's party from being annihilated, it's not something you can consistently rely on.

Jounin is more like the "completed skillset" range. Having the title Jounin still doesn't mean you've got nothing to learn, but it means that you're in the absolute best of the best. You've got a huge arsenal of techniques, you have huge reserves of chakra, you've got master class techniques and skills. Jounin is basically PhD of Holy-Shit-Ninjas. You're the type they send to take down armies and do things that don't have clear paths to follow. Where naruto and his team are at the level right now that they might be able to complete the mission, a Jounin would complete the mission no matter what. If it were kakashi there fighting gaara, gaara would be very hard pressed to win without immediately going into perfect shukaku form, and it's unlikely that the jounins in question would let that go down all the way either.

(granted, most jounins probably still wouldn't have much to be able to fight evenly with shukaku. Naruto just happened to be able to call gamabunta to do that, but one of the "beyond jounin" level ninjas had to give him that).

Anyway, for those of us keeping up with hunter x hunter, where gon is at the start of gi-final is is about where I think naruto is in his progression .... learning, polishing, growing really fast to fill out his potential a bit more... but there's obviously people that are still vastly stronger (naruto would lose to gai or kakashi without a doubt, and gai and kakashi acknowledged the whole big level higher the hokages and orochimaru and jiraiya are too).

I'm probably just rambling now since I'm pretty tired, so I'll leave it at this:

WATCH HUNTER X HUNTER. IT'S THE SAME AS NARUTO (but with a whole lot less dark and a whole lot more innocence). i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Vagabond

Sat, 04-17-2004, 05:23 AM

Dude you've convinced me. Im gonna go download it right now. i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

BTW was it created by Yoshihiro Togashi?(the guy who made yu yu hakusho)

Sorry to get off topic.

Stoopider

Sat, 04-17-2004, 05:38 AM

I cant seem to pick up Hunter X Hunter. I've seen the first episode. The guy looks like Astroboy. I sadly to say. Put it down.

Zelos

Sat, 04-17-2004, 05:48 AM

If you didn't read the manga and dont want to know anything that might spol the show dont read on

Naruto definatly excels that of a lot of Jounin for 1 his chakra granted it is mostly Kyubi he can still call forth Kyubi's power and control it. He learns very complicated Justsu faster and easier for example the Justu the 4th took 3 years to master Naruto mastered it in 1 month also in 1 day he learned kage bunshin, the walk on water one... He has a huge amount stamina. With his own chakra and his alone he defeated the guy with Orochimaru (forget his name) who is almost if not on par with Kakashi. Inversly though, he just plain sucks at fighting he does fluke out a lot. He doesn't have many Justsu's and half the ones he does have are useless (harem no justu, sexy no Jutsu...) He can't lead a group and can't think too far ahead in battle (which also makes him the most unpredictable ninja in Konoha).

Jiraya is at Hokage level and if all Genin had to learn stuff on their own they wouldn't be very poweful I also am rambling pretty bad and not making very good sentences but Naruto is definately at very high Chunin low Jounin level at the very least

itsgalf

Sat, 04-17-2004, 06:11 AM

Zelos, I see that that is your first post. Please go read the rules. This is the anime forum, you shouldn't openly spoil like that. Use the spoiler color or just don't write it at all.

And I don't think Naruto has horrible Chakra control anymore. He might have below average chakra control still, but I think after Jairaya removed Orochimaru's seal and taught him to walk on water, his chakra control improved tremendously.

HokageVirus

Sat, 04-17-2004, 07:55 AM

page one pissed me off. too much stupid.

Naruto HAS succesfully belted out a strategy or 2 that were awsomley sucessful.

take this into account: while fighitng zabuza, Kakashi got careless and was captured. IF Narutp was the moron out local hamster loaf insists, then why OH WHY did NARUTO formulate the plan to free him? (kage bunshin, henge to 4 bladed shurinken, get tossed to sasuke, get thrown using kage shurinken, trick zabuza, stab him, get kakashi freed) wanna tell me that? HM?!

or houw bout this? in the forest, during chuunin exam part 2, when the mist nin attacked, if narutos a fool, HOW IN THE WORLD did he know to kage bunshinl, distract his targets, then henge THREE of them, into his comrads, do protect them and fool the mist nin, and then TOTALLY OWN the bastards?

OR!!! wat about his neji battle? AFTER! he used the kyubi chalra. AFTER! they were both pretty much spent. AFTER! they made these uge crters, if Naruto was such a mron HOW DID HE KNOW to tunnel his ass UNDERGROUND to finnishing blow Neji?

or in 78, VS Gaara, when he feigned an idiot move (the ass stab) and placed an explocive, that tore the part Shukaku a second asshole?

face it, naruto ma have AT ONE TIME been a cpmplete idiot, but he is growing. hes growing like a popieseed plant on steroids. he's learned how to use strategy, and not just run in like an idiot. he's learned to fight for others, not jsut himself or his pride. hes grown to love those, who once showed hatred (at least to an extent as of yet) many have recognized his ability, power, and potential to grow, HOKAGE INCLUDED.

"he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did"

you said that right hamster loaf?

the mission would hvae failed, and everyone would have died, unless naruto woulda saved kakashi, forgot the kyubi spaz he pulled later on. Teamwork is the #1 priority to compleate a mission without suffering huge casualty, and compleating the mission without casualty is the #1 priority of a ninja. NAruto has learned to work with his rival for the greater good. your biased outlook is keeping you from realizing some of these things.

winnydapoo

Sat, 04-17-2004, 09:34 AM

Cool perspectives in some of these later posts, very interesting!

?igma

Sat, 04-17-2004, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
naruto is a joke. i'd say the things he does is about 80% kyubi and 20% him.

fool Naruto IS Chuubi ..
And dont forget, the reason why he couldnt master the easy parts of kindergarten is simply BECAUSE chuubi was inside of him. There is no telling what he couldve become without Chuubi because we cant predict different storylines..

Originally posted by: HokageVirus
page one pissed me off. too much stupid.

Naruto HAS succesfully belted out a strategy or 2 that were awsomley sucessful.

take this into account: while fighitng zabuza, Kakashi got careless and was captured. IF Narutp was the moron out local hamster loaf insists, then why OH WHY did NARUTO formulate the plan to free him? (kage bunshin, henge to 4 bladed shurinken, get tossed to sasuke, get thrown using kage shurinken, trick zabuza, stab him, get kakashi freed) wanna tell me that? HM?!

or houw bout this? in the forest, during chuunin exam part 2, when the mist nin attacked, if narutos a fool, HOW IN THE WORLD did he know to kage bunshinl, distract his targets, then henge THREE of them, into his comrads, do protect them and fool the mist nin, and then TOTALLY OWN the bastards?

OR!!! wat about his neji battle? AFTER! he used the kyubi chalra. AFTER! they were both pretty much spent. AFTER! they made these uge crters, if Naruto was such a mron HOW DID HE KNOW to tunnel his ass UNDERGROUND to finnishing blow Neji?

or in 78, VS Gaara, when he feigned an idiot move (the ass stab) and placed an explocive, that tore the part Shukaku a second asshole?

face it, naruto ma have AT ONE TIME been a cpmplete idiot, but he is growing. hes growing like a popieseed plant on steroids. he's learned how to use strategy, and not just run in like an idiot. he's learned to fight for others, not jsut himself or his pride. hes grown to love those, who once showed hatred (at least to an extent as of yet) many have recognized his ability, power, and potential to grow, HOKAGE INCLUDED.

"he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did"

you said that right hamster loaf?

the mission would hvae failed, and everyone would have died, unless naruto woulda saved kakashi, forgot the kyubi spaz he pulled later on. Teamwork is the #1 priority to compleate a mission without suffering huge casualty, and compleating the mission without casualty is the #1 priority of a ninja. NAruto has learned to work with his rival for the greater good. your biased outlook is keeping you from realizing some of these things.

love this, my thoughts exactly

EpoC

Sat, 04-17-2004, 10:58 AM

Naruto is at chounin lvl. At jounin lvl you don't only need power but also experience and a strategic sense.
When it comes to experince, naruto would fail because he's only been a ninja for mabybe a half a year or something.

Aegis Runestone

Sat, 04-17-2004, 11:29 AM

Thank you you guys! These are the points I have been trying to make!

ELiA

Sat, 04-17-2004, 11:39 AM

Naruto is a ninja. He is strong and he has his own tv-show in japan. Really, he's that strong!
If Itachi is stronger than Naruto, how come he doesn't have his own tv-show???

Naruto even has his own videogame. NO, wait! he has 4!!! (2 GC, 1PS2, 1GBA).
How many does Itachi have? NONE!!!
I rest my case...

Mcdougal

Sat, 04-17-2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by: HokageVirus

"he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did"

you said that right hamster loaf?

the mission would hvae failed, and everyone would have died, unless naruto woulda saved kakashi, forgot the kyubi spaz he pulled later on. Teamwork is the #1 priority to compleate a mission without suffering huge casualty, and compleating the mission without casualty is the #1 priority of a ninja. NAruto has learned to work with his rival for the greater good. your biased outlook is keeping you from realizing some of these things.

And where exactly would naruto be if it weren't for the rest of the team, hmm? If it weren't for Kakashi, he would have been f*cked seventy ways to sunday, both on the bridge and in the forest. If it weren't for Sasuke, Haku would have left him in a comatose state for Zabusa to deal with, and if it weren't for Sakura, then...then...Ok, got me there. But if it weren't for the others, Naruto wouldn't have made it far past the leaf village gates. I mean, when the two water ninjas attack, Narutos respons is to freeze! Sasuke had to save his paralysed ass. Kakashi later scolded Naruto for it.

The point that Mut@t@ was trying to make and which you seem to have missed completly, is that Naruto would never have been able to protect the Architect against the ninjas alone, not in a gazillion years.
And it would be beneficial if you actually read the WHOLE post.

[i]Naruto is not chuunin worthy or jounin worthy. he is a genin right now for a reason. he has a lot of power, yes it's chuunin/jounin power, but the thing is...if he really did an A rank mission, he'd not only fail but get slaughtered. naruto did not complete a rank A mission, sasuke, kakashi, sakura, AND naruto did.obviously naruto is strong (whether it is hokage's or gamakichi's strength or whatever) but he doesn't have the brains and skills to become a chuunin, let along a jounin.

This is a very valid point. If you compare Naruto to Shino, Sasuke or Neji, you'll find that he is inferior in the strategic department. Thats not to say he's a vegetable, as he has had some pretty nifty idéas. But he's nowhere near the level required to be a Chuunin. The only one that passed the test is Shikamaru. Does it really seem that Narutos wit comes anywhere near his? I think not.

And you mentioned that the nr one ninja priority is to complete the mission without any casualties. That's only half right. The top priority is to to complete the mission period. The second priority is to see to it that everyone gets back safe.

The rest of your post was, however, accurate. At least IMO

ELiA

Sat, 04-17-2004, 12:19 PM

In the 'brugklas van de middelbare school' we learned every opinion is 'right'.

Gods_Son

Sat, 04-17-2004, 12:29 PM

Without Kyubi, Naruto is nothing. With it, he is strong, but still lacks the experience/leadership and some of the other abilities, besides strength, necessary to be at higher rank. ELiA, nobody cares about what they taught you in school.

Shinji Ikari

Sat, 04-17-2004, 12:35 PM

Am i the one who has a few screws loose, or is it the morrons that complain about Naruto completing an A-rank mission saying "No it wasn't Naruto, it was Kakshi, Sasuke, Sakura and Naruto doing it"... Well duh. From what i've heard, people don't go on A-rank missions alone but as a "unit", and that for one hell of a good reason to. Yeah, you know tha answer, because it is to dangerous to do it alone. Sure, one or two special ninjas might get a secret order to do something that equals up to an A-rank, but only if they know/think he/she can handle it alone. Going in to a mission not knowing what to expect, the Hokage would be a fool olny to send in 1 guy/girl, and for that matter, he wouldn't even consider it. Even the ANBU work in pairs.

Naruto DID complete an A-rank mission, and it is a valid point to take up since he did it. Of course he wasn't the only one, but he did it.

And what's all these complaints about Naruto anyway? How about the "cool" Gaara that everyone seems to like. He is exactly the same as Naruto (only weaker because he has never made such a strong issue of training as far as i know). If it weren't for the sand, he'd look pretty stupid, standing all alone like a fool getting his ass whopped by even Sakura who i class as one of the weakest. The only thing i have seen him use, ever is his sand.

If you are going to complain about someone, then complain about Gaara.

Without Kyubi, Naruto is nothing. With it, he is strong, but still lacks the experience/leadership and some of the other abilities, besides strength, necessary to be at higher rank. ELiA, nobody cares about what they taught you in school.

And how do you know that? No one has seen Naruto without Kyubi as a character, and the manga-allknowers do say that he'd be a totally different person if he wouldn't have had Kyubi from the day of his birth. If he didn't have it, he wouldn't have been bullied. And if no one bullied him, he might have gotten friends, and if so he might not have acted like a jerk and looked like a fool. And if you consider all these facts, he might have been just as dedicated to being a ninja as Rock Lee, and just as bright as Sasuke (i don't say shikamaru because his intelligence is abnormal) and as good of a ninja as any other ninja his age.

Mut

Sat, 04-17-2004, 12:36 PM

this nEw guy has deraiLed the whole entire naruto anime forums. ridiculous.

Gods_Son

Sat, 04-17-2004, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
this nEw guy has deraiLed the whole entire naruto anime forums. ridiculous.

In case that was a little too indirect, please lock any thread ELiA starts, or just ban him.

ELiA

Sat, 04-17-2004, 12:43 PM

You know what?

I love "naruto" !!! I don't watch it to see who became stronger, or if I was right about it.
It's the overall experience, the humor, emotion, music, everything. I look forward to 78, as I am seeing it tonight for the very first time. I'm probably not seeing 79 untill next friday, but that good right? If it's such a good ep., would you (who saw it) not want to see again like the first time?

NewGuyinTown

Sat, 04-17-2004, 01:20 PM

The reason that Naruto isn't a Jounin worthy is because he's dumb, eh? I wonder who is the "stupidest" of the following: Gai (Jounin), Ebisu (Jounin), or Naruto (Genin)?

I think Gai is... If Gai can be a Jounin, then Naruto can, too, at his current state. I bet Naruto can even teach better than him...

Assertn

Sat, 04-17-2004, 01:25 PM

gai's not stupid, just a social misfit.....he knows what he's doin out in the battlefield

SkyDragon

Sat, 04-17-2004, 01:42 PM

Gai is definitely not stupid. Look at Kakashi's students and look at Gai's. Look at Kakashi and look at Gai from what we've seen of both of them they seem equal but Gai seems to be the better teacher.

Naruto doesn't have jounin skills in anything but chakra. The OP said that Naruto and only a few stronger jounins can beat shukaku so that makes him strong. THat's wrong. He had gamabunta which is the summon of 1 of the legendary 3 and the summons seem around the power of them and he still lost. I doubt any jounin will be able to beat him unless they can someoen get all the way to Garaa and wake him up. It wasn't even Naruto's plan, it was gamabunta's, they would have lost if there wasn't soemoen as strong as Gamabutna holding shukaku.

Naruto is in no way a jounin in anything aside from chakra as I said just now. No proof to say that he is otherwise.

Uchiha Barles

Sat, 04-17-2004, 02:15 PM

Naruto probably isn't a jounin, but I'm positive he is chuunin level as far as grasping the situation is concerned. Look at the second exam: When sasuke was ready to give up the scroll against orochimaru, It was naruto that understood the situation. No matter how strong the opponent was, giving up the scroll was not an option because there was no guarantee that they would left alone. And he was able to see this in the middle of a situation that had even sasuke leaking in his shorts. Nevermind that there really was no chance of survival since it was orochimaru they were facing, because no one did at the time (except maybe gaara, who knows).

The second time he showed leadership ability was when the were fighting those ninja that had goop-like replications. The strategy to defeat them was naruto's. As a refresher, he made some of his shadow replications look like the other team members and kabuto. The purpose was to tire the opposing team out while the real sasuke, sakura, and kabuto hid and relaxed, thus, putting them in a position to hand the opposing team their ass. (Sure he went and ignored his own strategy by winning that fight totally by himself, but again, ignore that. :-P)

To finish up this long post, sure people like sasuke and neiji have better understanding of the situation when not in combat, but in combat, naruto's understanding of the situation is second to no one except shikamaru (remember the zabuza kakashi fight), and combat-sense is as important as pre- combat sense if you can call it that. Naruto is chuunin level.

Mut

Sat, 04-17-2004, 02:34 PM

for those who are arguing about the A rank mission naruto 'did' listen to this. you guys are forgetting the most important thing of being a ninja. stealth. which naruto lacks 100% of. he has no skills spot out the little things that would make him a ninja that can do A rank missions. naruto has only faced his opponents when it was a face to face ordeal. NEVER has he ever faced an encounter where stealth was involved. the point is, naruto would not even have the chance to go face to face with an opponent like haku or someone like him, naruto would just get killed without ever knowing it.

Uchiha Barles

Sat, 04-17-2004, 02:43 PM

You're right about naruto lacking stealth, but stealth has a major purpose, and that is to surprise the enemy. Naruto is most definately not lacking in that. I won't even bother to list the times it's been shown in the anime.

?igma

Sat, 04-17-2004, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
for those who are arguing about the A rank mission naruto 'did' listen to this. you guys are forgetting the most important thing of being a ninja. stealth. which naruto lacks 100% of. he has no skills spot out the little things that would make him a ninja that can do A rank missions. naruto has only faced his opponents when it was a face to face ordeal. NEVER has he ever faced an encounter where stealth was involved. the point is, naruto would not even have the chance to go face to face with an opponent like haku or someone like him, naruto would just get killed without ever knowing it.

omfg~~

first we are discussing the completely idiotic idea of Naruto being anything past his official lvl (which is ofcourse nonsense) and next we are talking about FXING STEALTH, which is ofcourse the main-attribute of every ninja in every anime EXCEPT NARUTO!!!
Ninja in Naruto get to make their own!! strategies, you know what makes Naruto so strong, the fact that at first, he has a girl to protect and in the end, its a town. and the good thing about that, is that he is going to give himself fully to this purpose.
Protecting the "weak".
Naruto only "cares" and does not "think" , but his pure instinct is actually basically EXTREMELY AWESOMELY good at replacing this failure of his, no???
Why for crying out loud dont we let Naruto be the guy that he is and pleaaaaaaaaaaaseeeee, dont mess wiht GAI, GAI ROXOR!!!
besides, if Naruto was really stupid, he would also be very dead already.... the future will show you.

SofaKing

Sat, 04-17-2004, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by: SkyDragon
Gai is definitely not stupid. Look at Kakashi's students and look at Gai's. Look at Kakashi and look at Gai from what we've seen of both of them they seem equal but Gai seems to be the better teacher.

Naruto doesn't have jounin skills in anything but chakra. The OP said that Naruto and only a few stronger jounins can beat shukaku so that makes him strong. THat's wrong. He had gamabunta which is the summon of 1 of the legendary 3 and the summons seem around the power of them and he still lost. I doubt any jounin will be able to beat him unless they can someoen get all the way to Garaa and wake him up. It wasn't even Naruto's plan, it was gamabunta's, they would have lost if there wasn't soemoen as strong as Gamabutna holding shukaku.

Naruto is in no way a jounin in anything aside from chakra as I said just now. No proof to say that he is otherwise.

Kage Busin no-jitsu is a jounin level skill as is summoning gamabunta in the first place. ITo say tha the only won because he had gamabunta is to ignore the fact that summoning gamabunta itself is a skill.

Uchiha Barles

Sat, 04-17-2004, 03:09 PM

As far as being able to make the statement that naruto is chuunin level, I'm partly using Sasuke as a reference since in episode 68, the examiner said that he was chuunin level. So, if sasuke is chuunin level, so is naruto based on what I said earlier, and things other people said in earlier replies.

Mut

Sat, 04-17-2004, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by: ?igma

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
for those who are arguing about the A rank mission naruto 'did' listen to this. you guys are forgetting the most important thing of being a ninja. stealth. which naruto lacks 100% of. he has no skills spot out the little things that would make him a ninja that can do A rank missions. naruto has only faced his opponents when it was a face to face ordeal. NEVER has he ever faced an encounter where stealth was involved. the point is, naruto would not even have the chance to go face to face with an opponent like haku or someone like him, naruto would just get killed without ever knowing it.

omfg~~

first we are discussing the completely idiotic idea of Naruto being anything past his official lvl (which is ofcourse nonsense) and next we are talking about FXING STEALTH, which is ofcourse the main-attribute of every ninja in every anime EXCEPT NARUTO!!!
Ninja in Naruto get to make their own!! strategies, you know what makes Naruto so strong, the fact that at first, he has a girl to protect and in the end, its a town. and the good thing about that, is that he is going to give himself fully to this purpose.
Protecting the "weak".
Naruto only "cares" and does not "think" , but his pure instinct is actually basically EXTREMELY AWESOMELY good at replacing this failure of his, no???
Why for crying out loud dont we let Naruto be the guy that he is and pleaaaaaaaaaaaseeeee, dont mess wiht GAI, GAI ROXOR!!!
besides, if Naruto was really stupid, he would also be very dead already.... the future will show you.

naruto sucks as a ninja. i'm sorry you cannot notice that. naruto is still far from being a real ninja.

naruto needs to learn that being so loud and damn clumsy will end up getting killed against stronger opponents.

EDIT: and i seriously don't understand how you can say that stealth isn't important in naruto. go watch the 1-79 all over again.

iMUSTbeTHEdevil

Sat, 04-17-2004, 03:40 PM

Naruto is a little loud....and a lot clumsy. But he still gives it his all. And only time will tell what he will do with his growth and his abilities in the future.

i/expressions/devil.gif

GokuSonGoku

Sat, 04-17-2004, 05:08 PM

If other characters in the anime had Kyubi there personality would change and they would experience the same loss as naruto... So they wouldnt be 3 times as strong as him

SkyDragon

Sat, 04-17-2004, 06:10 PM

If another person had Kyubi that is stronger(not physically wise but emotionally) they won't let that affect them. Naruto won't be as strong wihtout Kyubi. His whole personallity is based on what happened because he had it.

Shinji Ikari

Sat, 04-17-2004, 06:14 PM

I don't know if this counts, but Naruto do know how to be silent. Remeber how he saved the little kid on the bridge totally surprising those two morons, he snuck up on them two times. First to save the mother and the little kid, then with two of his kage bunshins from behind to kick their asses. In that situation, not only was he silent, but he analysed the milieu and came to the conclusion which saved two characters lives

But not only that, when they had a mission to retrieve a cat, he did sneak with his team.

The only times I have seen him be totally loud is in fights where he is equal or where he have been able to save the situation. These times are in a great majority, and sure it's not especially good of him to be fooling around, but i think it's a bit harsh to be so condescending towards him.

And please Mr cat loaf, could you tone down on your "mr-know-it-all" style? I don't like the ringing in my ear that it gives me. If you know a lot more which i asume you do, go discuss it with the others in the open forum, because not only are you anoying when you say how much you know talking big and condescending, even without knowing it you also give out hints about the story in Naruto.

Mut

Sat, 04-17-2004, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
And please Mr cat loaf, could you tone down on your "mr-know-it-all" style? I don't like the ringing in my ear that it gives me. If you know a lot more which i asume you do, go discuss it with the others in the open forum, because not only are you anoying when you say how much you know talking big and condescending, even without knowing it you also give out hints about the story in Naruto.

first of all...no, too bad.

second...i haven't spoiled anything yet. if i have the mods would pm me. so...yeah.

EDIT: response to below:

plz shut up...if you really want to say something to me, just pm me. and like i said, if i have spoiled the mods to tell me.

Shinji Ikari

Sat, 04-17-2004, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
And please Mr cat loaf, could you tone down on your "mr-know-it-all" style? I don't like the ringing in my ear that it gives me. If you know a lot more which i asume you do, go discuss it with the others in the open forum, because not only are you anoying when you say how much you know talking big and condescending, even without knowing it you also give out hints about the story in Naruto.

first of all...no, too bad.

second...i haven't spoiled anything yet. if i have the mods would pm me. so...yeah.

Oh, then how come every time i read ay of your mess, i think that iknow more about what will happen in Naruto? As i said, you don't say anything clear, but you do give hints wether you know it or not.

Second of all, i don't want to sound cheap or anything, but put a sock in it will ya. Your attitude isn't good for you.

ELiA

Sun, 04-18-2004, 05:42 AM

I hear you talk about stealth.

NOne of naruto's characters use camouflage. They wear the most colorful outfits, well most of them.

?igma

Sun, 04-18-2004, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by: ELiA
I hear you talk about stealth.

NOne of naruto's characters use camouflage. They wear the most colorful outfits, well most of them.

see!! im right HAI!!

CapsuleCorpJX

Sun, 04-18-2004, 06:33 PM

Stealth would not have worked against Gaara, his protection is automatic.
And not many ninjas have used stealth at all throughout the anime, with exception of the Demon Brothers and Kabuto. Most of the fights from the kohonoha ninjas have been frontal attacks or defenses.

Naruto knows a jounin level skill (kage bushin), a legendary ninja level skill (summoning toad boss) WITH his own chakra.

He is certainly not stupid, have you been paying attention to his fights? He uses strategy that is often brilliant:

1) His fight with Neji, the last part where he fakes his own defeat.
2) His fight with Kiba, fooling Kiba using genjutsu.
3) Him going through a series of moves to shove a dagger up Gaara's ass.
4) He came up with the strategy to free Kakashi from Zabuza's water prison.

He will show many more brilliant moves in future episodes, trust me on that.

If you think he's gennin strength/level, you're a moron.

Originally posted by: Mut@t@

Originally posted by: ?igma

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
for those who are arguing about the A rank mission naruto 'did' listen to this. you guys are forgetting the most important thing of being a ninja. stealth. which naruto lacks 100% of. he has no skills spot out the little things that would make him a ninja that can do A rank missions. naruto has only faced his opponents when it was a face to face ordeal. NEVER has he ever faced an encounter where stealth was involved. the point is, naruto would not even have the chance to go face to face with an opponent like haku or someone like him, naruto would just get killed without ever knowing it.

omfg~~

first we are discussing the completely idiotic idea of Naruto being anything past his official lvl (which is ofcourse nonsense) and next we are talking about FXING STEALTH, which is ofcourse the main-attribute of every ninja in every anime EXCEPT NARUTO!!!
Ninja in Naruto get to make their own!! strategies, you know what makes Naruto so strong, the fact that at first, he has a girl to protect and in the end, its a town. and the good thing about that, is that he is going to give himself fully to this purpose.
Protecting the "weak".
Naruto only "cares" and does not "think" , but his pure instinct is actually basically EXTREMELY AWESOMELY good at replacing this failure of his, no???
Why for crying out loud dont we let Naruto be the guy that he is and pleaaaaaaaaaaaseeeee, dont mess wiht GAI, GAI ROXOR!!!
besides, if Naruto was really stupid, he would also be very dead already.... the future will show you.

naruto sucks as a ninja. i'm sorry you cannot notice that. naruto is still far from being a real ninja.

naruto needs to learn that being so loud and damn clumsy will end up getting killed against stronger opponents.

EDIT: and i seriously don't understand how you can say that stealth isn't important in naruto. go watch the 1-79 all over again.

originalkrn

Sun, 04-18-2004, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by: ELiA
I hear you talk about stealth.

NOne of naruto's characters use camouflage. They wear the most colorful outfits, well most of them.

None of naruto's characters wear camouflage because camouflage consists of boring colors. The artists want colorful outfits so their characters would stand out. And stealth isnt all about not being seen. It also consists of not being heard or even smelt. Naruto lacks the ability to be quiet. As Kakashi quoted him he is "the most loudest..somethigsomethingsomething" nin. Im too lazy to look it up. Naruto may be extremely powerful, but he lacks in all other departments of being a ninja. He only defeated Gaara because he is extremely big and powerful and thats all you need against someone like Gaara. If he were fighting Kakashi, it would be over in two seconds considering the speed comparison and all of Kakashi's jitsus. Itachi? Naruto just looks at him and its over. So, he may be as physically powerful as a jounin, but true strength comes in many ways.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: CapsuleCorpJX

1) His fight with Neji, the last part where he fakes his own defeat.
2) His fight with Kiba, fooling Kiba using genjutsu.
3) Him going through a series of moves to shove a dagger up Gaara's ass.
4) He came up with the strategy to free Kakashi from Zabuza's water prison.

He will show many more brilliant moves in future episodes, trust me on that.

If you think he's gennin strength/level, you're a moron.

Well he was versing genins too in 3 of those fights so thats why they worked so well. And against Zabuza, Zabuza did have a hand holding Kakashi and was nearly immobile anyway. Although all those strats were impressive, the Zabuza one was the only one he did against a jounin level ninja.

Nova

Sun, 04-18-2004, 06:55 PM

Simply put Naruto is a genin for a reason. The reason is that even though he has a ton of chakra, knows some very high level techniques, and is very creative in battle, he is also NOT good at some things. To become a chuunin you should be good at everything, to become a jounin you must be very good at everything.

I'll outline one situation where he isn't, there are more than one but I don't wanna type too much right now i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif ...

" A ninja needs to be able to read underneath the underneath. "
Naruto doesn't do this, and Naruto doesn't REALLY even understand this. I like naruto alot, i'm not trying to say hes weak, and in my other post I say alot of positive stuff about him. A perfect example of this is that Naruto got past the first part of the chuunin exam on guts and luck alone. If there actually had been a 10th question he woulda been toast and this discussion would have been over. If he had tried to cheat he probably would have been another person caught. He had a blank sheet, he couldn't cheat without getting caught, he hadn't developed those skills. And back to the original reason, he didn't even realize he was supposed to cheat. Now obviously its been awhile since then and Naruto is becoming more powerful every episode, but the facts remain that some of Naruto's basics are still not up to Chuunin level. And whether he could deafeat a Chuunin, Jounin, or Hokage in a head on battle, before they are going to promote a young excelling kid, they are going to make him round out all of his skills. That includes his Taijutsu techniques which could use some work, his Ninjutsu which is definately his strong point, and his Genjutsu skills, along with his ability to "understand the situation". Even though Naruto may come up with inventive, and unpredictable combinations of techniques he still is just learning how to read whats going on around him.

Uchiha Barles

Sun, 04-18-2004, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by: Nova
Simply put Naruto is a genin for a reason. The reason is that even though he has a ton of chakra, knows some very high level techniques, and is very creative in battle, he is also NOT good at some things. To become a chuunin you should be good at everything, to become a jounin you must be very good at everything.

I'll outline one situation where he isn't, there are more than one but I don't wanna type too much right now i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif ...

" A ninja needs to be able to read underneath the underneath. "
Naruto doesn't do this, and Naruto doesn't REALLY even understand this. I like naruto alot, i'm not trying to say hes weak, and in my other post I say alot of positive stuff about him. A perfect example of this is that Naruto got past the first part of the chuunin exam on guts and luck alone. If there actually had been a 10th question he woulda been toast and this discussion would have been over. If he had tried to cheat he probably would have been another person caught. He had a blank sheet, he couldn't cheat without getting caught, he hadn't developed those skills. And back to the original reason, he didn't even realize he was supposed to cheat. Now obviously its been awhile since then and Naruto is becoming more powerful every episode, but the facts remain that some of Naruto's basics are still not up to Chuunin level. And whether he could deafeat a Chuunin, Jounin, or Hokage in a head on battle, before they are going to promote a young excelling kid, they are going to make him round out all of his skills. That includes his Taijutsu techniques which could use some work, his Ninjutsu which is definately his strong point, and his Genjutsu skills, along with his ability to "understand the situation". Even though Naruto may come up with inventive, and unpredictable combinations of techniques he still is just learning how to read whats going on around him.

Granted Naruto's skills arent up to par in certain respects, but he passed the first exam for a reason. He couldn't figure out that he was supposed to cheat, nor did he even want to when given the chance, but he knew there was no point in giving up. I'm sure that far smarter people have been elimated for not realizing that. Another thing to realize is that, even in the first exam, teamwork was important. Sasuke and Sakura knew that Naruto had no chance in the exam, and they should have been able to make up for it, someway somehow, specially considering that his failure meant their failure. Consider Rock Lee. He had no way of getting the answers...on his own. His team managed to slip him the answers. So you can't really say he doesn't deserve to be a chuunin based on that. You have to look at the overall. He performed well in the second part of the exam. He's the one that drew sasuke out of his fear of dying, which is something that needed to be done, and he's the one that figured out how to beat the goop ninjas. Also, when sasuke came up with the password at the beginning of the test, I'd be willing to bet that Naruto was fully aware that he wasn't expected to remember it based on how readily he said he didn't remember.
Then there's the third exam. The examiners said that naruto shouldn't be chuunin because he doesn't know when to give up, and that if he were leading troops into battle, it would cost too many lives (or something somewhat to that effect). Well, that's a wrong of looking at the picture. First of all, Naruto has a demon in him, what neiji did to him was nowhere near all that he could handle, so truth be told, he wasn't given a reason to give up. To drive the point in, he had enough remaining chakra to go and beat shit out of gaara after his match, which mind you, occured in the same day. Another thing is, how do you predict how someone is going to react when leading a group into battle based on how they act when they only have themselves to consider? People generally think and act differently in both situations. So, the third exam is not a good indicator of the leadership qualities of a ninja, and that being the case, naruto performed not just well, but brilliantly. Overall, he deserves to be a chuunin.

Mut

Sun, 04-18-2004, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by: ?igma

Originally posted by: ELiA
I hear you talk about stealth.

NOne of naruto's characters use camouflage. They wear the most colorful outfits, well most of them.

see!! im right HAI!!

you guys are soooooooo stupid. aruging with you guys is same as arguing with 12 year olds. pointless.

you guys still can't see why he is not a chuunin. he is too reckless, he needs to be more professional about what he does, not attack everything head on.

Uchiha Barles

Sun, 04-18-2004, 08:23 PM

What's the point of going in a roundabout manner to complete something when you're perfectly capable of doing it head on? And what hell?! Naruto's come up with strategies time and time again that weren't at all "what you see is what you get", and they worked. His style may be foward, but it's effective dammit. Not saying he shouldn't get better where he's lacking, but he's no less a ninja then any other genin at the moment.

CapsuleCorpJX

Sun, 04-18-2004, 09:18 PM

I never said he was Chunnin worthy as being able to lead a group of ninjas effectively. I said he had strength and fighting ability way above the average chunnin, and on par with ANBU or lower Jounin.

"This is the first time in a while I've seen such a skilled brat, even if he's an annoying one."
- Toad Boss.

Hakeem_21

Mon, 04-19-2004, 05:04 AM

Originally posted by: gokudagreat
thats just not true though, in multiple battles naruto makes incredibly smart tactical moves during the heat of battle: first battle against zabuza, battle against kiba, battle against gaara etc.

It is true that he doesnt know alot of jutsus, but hes young, and he will learn

I hate to make this comparison, but Naruto is like Goku in some aspects, for instance Goku is a complete idiot but when it comes to the heat of battle, he is ingenious strategically and the same goes for Naruto, he may not know alot of Jutsus or be the brightest, but he has a determination like no other and he is incredibly smart in the heat of battle, hes just rough around the edges

Yeah Naruto is a genius when it's in the heat of a battle like when he turned himself into a shuriken agianst Zabusa and when he jumped on and off his bunshin to do 1000 pain agianst Gaara. Hi relies much on instincts.

HokageVirus

Mon, 04-19-2004, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
for those who are arguing about the A rank mission naruto 'did' listen to this. you guys are forgetting the most important thing of being a ninja. stealth. which naruto lacks 100% of. he has no skills spot out the little things that would make him a ninja that can do A rank missions. naruto has only faced his opponents when it was a face to face ordeal. NEVER has he ever faced an encounter where stealth was involved. the point is, naruto would not even have the chance to go face to face with an opponent like haku or someone like him, naruto would just get killed without ever knowing it.

ok yeah THAT, be true (at least 80% true, cuz ya know....when it comes to hiding he IS an idiot) and that dude who insisted i didnt read all of our lovable hamster loafs posts? i did. believe me. i did. i never said Naruto would be able to do an a rank alone, note i said TEAMWORK maybe 3 times in the quote hed made of me. a rank missions, b rank missions, c,d and mayve even an e (e would be simple existng since its not a real rank) arent one man jobs. theyve NEVER been one man jobs. a SQUAB of ninjas go out to deal with them. of course naruto cant do it alone, hesnever been trained to, and isnt SUPPOSED to. and DUH those mist nins made him wuss out, they were his first actual DANGER. (mizuki doesnt count, hes wussier then naruto was) but yeah..haku coulda ofed him AND sasuke at any time if he wanted to. remember, that stupid boy was toying wiht them. at any second he could hvae vital point stabbed them BOTH, and theyd be croacked, giving him time to support zabuza. haku had the strength, and skill to kill naruto. even the opportunity. but not the heart. BUT THEN AGAIN this si a show ABOUT Naruto, of course they ain gon croack him.

HokageVirus

Mon, 04-19-2004, 11:08 AM

you guys are soooooooo stupid. aruging with you guys is same as arguing with 12 year olds. pointless.

lol sorry for double post i just GOTTA ay somethin, kinda like re-wording this sentance.

"Arguing ABOUT Naruto, is like arguing WITH Naruto"

jing

Mon, 04-19-2004, 03:18 PM

Naruto isn't strong as jounin
It was all the work of gamabunta. Naruto did shit except summon him. which only takes alot of chakra.
Just because you can summon something doesn't proove you are good. Gamabunta is the REAL hero there. I bet kakashi could summon a really good frog too. AND he has skillz, therefore making him a wicked jounin.

Gods_Son

Mon, 04-19-2004, 03:27 PM

If Naruto was worthy of being a jounin or chunnin right now, Kishimoto would've made it so. He may have strength, but he doesn't have the other characteristics necessary to qualify him for a higher rank. He will earn it after showing more development.

Superman

Mon, 04-19-2004, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by: jing
Naruto isn't strong as jounin
It was all the work of gamabunta. Naruto did shit except summon him. which only takes alot of chakra.
Just because you can summon something doesn't proove you are good. Gamabunta is the REAL hero there. I bet kakashi could summon a really good frog too. AND he has skillz, therefore making him a wicked jounin.

What was Gamabunta going to do to beat the shukaku? He was getting beat even befor Gaara did his fake sleep jutsu. After the real demon woke-up, Gamabunta was totally over matched. He couldn't even do a good henge without Naruto. Then he was getting pushed around even after Naruto had woken Gaara up. Gamabunta was totally spent and Shukaku showed no sign of slowing down.

"Naruto did shit except summon him." don't be absurd. It was Naruto's henge, It was Naruto that punched Gaara to wake him up. It was Naruto who broke through the sand to deliver a huge head-but that destroyed the sand demon.

Naruto is a huge dominator. I agree with the creator of this topic "He is as powerful as a jounin."

MemnochTheCaT

Mon, 04-19-2004, 03:53 PM

You've got some interesting points, Superman, but you must remember that it was a cooperative effort of both Naruto and Gama, they would both have lost fighting individually. Gamabunta was the one that explained the way Gaara was the medium and had to be awoken, etc .. and the one who explained the need for the henge, and also supplied most of the muscle for the battle.

Naruto by himself would have been totally destroyed by Shukaku, for that matter even Jounin-class ninja would probably have a hard time surviving the encounter unless they could summon something to match shukaku in size/speed/range/defense/offense. Shukaku seemed to be even slightly more powerful than Gamabunta, he was at his limit when Naruto finally knocked Gaara the fuqq out i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Edit : OT, I think that Naruto certainly has some Jounin-level capabilities, but isn't worthy of that rank yet, and probably for some time.

My take on Naruto's abilities :

Physical Strength : Chuunin level
Chakra Strength : Jounin level
Taijutsu Ability : Genin level
Genjutsu Ability : Genin level
Ninjutsu Ability : Chuunin+ level
Tactics Ability : Chuunin level
Command intellect : -Genin level
Strength of will and heart Ability : Hokage level

Superman

Mon, 04-19-2004, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
You've got some interesting points, Superman, but you must remember that it was a cooperative effort of both Naruto and Gama, they would both have lost fighting individually.

Oh, without a doubt Naruto could not have beaten Gaara without Gamabunta. That is just like saying Naruto would not have beaten Kiba without Kagebunshin. That is one of his ninja techniques. You can't forget that Gamabunta is a summon. He does not exist without a powerful ninja to summon him.

Naruto's total power = Naruto's normal power + Gamabunta's Power

Shakugan

Mon, 04-19-2004, 04:25 PM

damn you are all flaming naruto why do you watch the show anyway its name is naruto not sasuke or anything naruto just plain ownz in the whole show and in these 2 eps he just shows us that hes not the everage dumb kid your all saying he is

and....

i think you should all remember that its possible that inside naruto not just kyuubi but also the 4th could be so that would mean maybe the blue chakra he uses to summon gamabunta comes from the 4th...
I was thinking about and i gues it was like i need to protect every one and all the dudes in konoha say that the 4th had love for the whole village and wanted to protect every one so maybe BIG TIME naruto is strong because hes just 4th reincarneted(or something like that) and maybe he isnt good in using his original chakra because of stupid foxie inside but damn flaming naruto that's just dumb...

MemnochTheCaT

Mon, 04-19-2004, 04:38 PM

When did I ever flame Naruto? He's one of my favorite characters, and I believe that in time he will achieve his goal of becoming Hokage. All I did was express my opinion that while he shares some measurments of Jounin-level strengths, he isn't quite worthy of all the responsiblities that such a title requires at this time. He still has a lot of growing to do (in many ways), before he is ready for that. That isn't flaming Naruto, it isn't even a criticism .. it's just honesty, with no ill intent whatsoever.

Gaz

Mon, 04-19-2004, 05:56 PM

After reading everything being argued here, it seems to me EVERYONE
is reading far far far too deeply into what has happend in the series.
Just relax, its an Anime, for entertainment to make you happy and
enjoy what you are watching.

The way I see it is that, so far all battles have been against equals.

Hokage vs Hokage through to Genin vs Genin.

The only time this has been miss matched was during the much argued
about A rank mission.

At the end of the day, Naruto is rock solid. The main reason he could
not regulate his chakra was not due to kyuubi being inside of him,
but due to the seal that was placed upon him during the chunin exam.

No-one, and I mean, NOONE can say anything related to what level
naruto should be at this time as we have only seen Naruto(genin) VS
other Genin's. Another point is that the Genin rookies are constantly
being described as the best in the last 5 years due to the way they
kept beating older, more "stronger" oponents.

The higher rank ninja seem to use little techniques at all other than
hand-to-hand combat skills. Look at the way Kakashi fights the sound
ninja even though he apparently is the "copy Ninja" and knows 1000's
of techniques. He has used approximatly 5-10 techniques, and a whole TWO
that are memorable in 79 episodes.

I have come to my statements above through watching the Anime, I have
never read and do not wish to read the Manga (unless Naruto gets
Licensed i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif ). Going by what has been seen in the Anime, genins
fighting genins, you just cant say a good arguemnt about proposed
ranks that characters should be. You just havnt seen enough fighting
between higher rank ninja's.

To say Naruto should be a Jenin is stupid as no-one who has seen the
Anime has watched him fight against a higher ranked Ninja in One-on-One
combat.

Finally to finish up, ALL of the Genins we have seen were put forward
for the Chunin exam, this means ALL of the genins should have had
the potential to gain this rank and as such arguing over who should
actually be a chunin is pointless.

episodes 78/79 have been the best yet and I cant wait for more!!!!

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 04-19-2004, 06:20 PM

MemnochTheCaT, wow, that seems like a fair assesment of naruto's skills. Although, on the physical strenght department, I might be inclined to give him jounin strenght because of he just doesn't stay down despite the abosolutely incredible beatings he gets, based and then still wins the fight by either punching or kicking the opponent all in the face. And his fist seems to knock people out like no one elses (except gai).

Another category that might worth looking at is situational analysis outside of combat, like avoiding traps and the like. Not sure what grade he'd get that though. Probably genin based on the first exam. But he did notice the dead boars in the zabuza fight and knew to go back and save the little kid and his mother

Gaz

Mon, 04-19-2004, 06:22 PM

*scraches head*

some people just love to argue

MemnochTheCaT

Mon, 04-19-2004, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
MemnochTheCaT, wow, that seems like a fair assesment of naruto's skills. Although, on the physical strenght department, I might be inclined to give him jounin strenght because of he just doesn't stay down despite the abosolutely incredible beatings he gets, based and then still wins the fight by either punching or kicking the opponent all in the face. And his fist seems to knock people out like no one elses (except gai).

You might be on to something there, but I was a little conservative because of what some Jounin have done. Remember Gai doing the bruce-lee punch that tossed that guy through the wall like a rag doll? Or the slight tap from Jiraiya's finger that sent Naruto hurtling through the brush straight over a cliff? Then again, compared with someone like Hayate, Naruto's raw physical strength may be at least comparable, if not superior. In the end, I chose my estimate because of the relatively few examples of Jounin strength that we have witnessed. I have edited my other post with a new catagory, however i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 04-19-2004, 06:36 PM

Hah! I'm guessing that the jiraiya finger attack was done with a load of chakra released with the strike, would make sense. But yeah, the evaluation is definately fair. And thumbs up for the new category.

The_Fourth

Mon, 04-19-2004, 06:45 PM

I agree with Gaz, you people are looking TOO much into it. Overall I really liked 78 as well as 79, I think the story is getting real good.

Gaz

Mon, 04-19-2004, 06:51 PM

I think the wait for these eps made it all the more great - after watching 77 eps in the space of 2 weeks and then having to wait a further 2 weeks just put me even more on edge i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Dont know what I'll do, now that I Have run out of Naruto eps to watch in my free time... shame that my girlfriend and I watched 2(?) years worth of anime in the space of 2 weeks...

MemnochTheCaT

Mon, 04-19-2004, 07:00 PM

Hehe GaZ, check into One Piece, it's another good series with a ton of eps .. it's a little slow to get started with, but addictive. Also worth looking into Get Backersm which is complete .. has some great moments. If you truly can't wait for more Naruto, start reading the manga, it's quite good, though I still watch every new Naruto anime episode with as much enjoyment as ever.

Gaz

Mon, 04-19-2004, 07:11 PM

I am forever looking for better Anime's , but after seeing Naruto , its hard to believe there is another A* anime waiting to be found i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

Kenshin
Naruto
Hellsing
Vandred

Things have moved on since when I started to watch Anime with things like :

Dominion Tank Police
Ninja Scroll
3x3 Eyes
Patlabour

I suppose everyone has seen these classics on this forum i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway - back on topic.

It was great to see the frog-king turn into a full-blown Nine Tails Fox , that was great , oh yeah baby i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Uchiha Barles

Mon, 04-19-2004, 07:16 PM

Just to mention this, there's this promising anime Tenjou Tenge that's out right now. It has some unbelievable fighting. Only two eps are out now, patiently waiting for the third, but hey, since it comes out at a different time in the week than naruto, if you like it, it'll help ease the tension of waiting. It's really good, check it out when you get the chance.

Gaz

Mon, 04-19-2004, 07:44 PM

already downloaded and watched the first episode. Went to download the next and the SeeD was down. I'll get it some other time after Gokusen i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif seems... interesting....

Mut

Mon, 04-19-2004, 07:53 PM

HEY WHY DON'T WE DERAIL THIS TOPIC EVEN MORE SO IT'S COMPLETELY OT.

MemnochTheCaT

Mon, 04-19-2004, 07:59 PM

Lol Catloaf I think that's already been done .. but let me see if I can make it worse ..

I think Taco Bueno > Taco Bell i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif Anyone agree?

kiyochi

Tue, 04-20-2004, 01:26 AM

Naruto is good with combining different moves with other moves.

Who would have thought he managed to combine that pain of a thousand year move with explodsive....that is one smart move.

kaigan

Tue, 04-20-2004, 03:03 AM

naruto in the regular days acts like an idiot. but when it comes to battle, he is above everyone elses in his class. But i think the story is getting more serious now, which is good.

Gaz

Tue, 04-20-2004, 06:09 AM

do you forget what happend before - it went all serious during their A rank mission and then straight afterwards it all went back to what it was like to begin with!

I predict this will happen again and another story arc will build up and everyone will get all uptight and serious again.

freezel-san

Tue, 04-20-2004, 08:22 AM

In my opinion, MemnochTheCaT's assessment of Naruto says it all. He is pretty unbalanced. There are some skills that are possibly Jounin-level, and some skills that are still on the lower end of Genin-level. As far as Naruto being ready to become a Chuunin, I think not: he has never demonstrated the ability to lead a group of ninja in a tactical situation, and this is pretty much exactly what a Chuunin is supposed to do.

While beating the crap out of everything that stands in your path in the most obvious manner is impressive, and, in the series, imperative for Konoha's safety, it is not the way of the ninja. The series has been focusing on Naruto's grand-royale-style battles a lot, and perhaps this is why people are so impressed with him. However, we've seen enough of various missions to know that this is not the way of the ninja, and it is not an acceptable mentality for an upper-ranked ninja to have.

?igma

Tue, 04-20-2004, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by: Gaz
I am forever looking for better Anime's , but after seeing Naruto , its hard to believe there is another A* anime waiting to be found i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

Kenshin
Naruto
Hellsing
Vandred

Things have moved on since when I started to watch Anime with things like :

Dominion Tank Police
Ninja Scroll
3x3 Eyes
Patlabour

I suppose everyone has seen these classics on this forum i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway - back on topic.

It was great to see the frog-king turn into a full-blown Nine Tails Fox , that was great , oh yeah baby i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

how can you like both kenshin and hellsing .... Kenshin OVA rulez, but the rest is pure crap......
Hellsing however is good taste, so I figure you dont know what u want yet i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

AkimichiChouji

Tue, 04-20-2004, 10:15 AM

Is vandred worth watching? ive heard mixed reviews on it so i wasn't sure if i should get it or not? Patlabour....now thats a classic why not go further and say sailor moon and SAMURAI PIZZA CATS!

Garlannd

Tue, 04-20-2004, 11:01 AM

Okay I'm too lazy to read through all these posts. I agree naruto is strong but strength isn't everything.
As the two examiners mentioned after Naruto's boust with Neji (probably spelled it wrong, I'm bad with names.) They're both strong but reckless. If they were to be considered by that they wouldn't pass the exam, if compared ti Shikamaru. (Go Shika!)

I agree that naruto is strong but he is too blunt forced he needs to take into consideration those around him more. He is beginning to do so though and if the battle in episode 78 and 79 between G and N was to be his exam I think hey may stand a better chance at passing.

I have not read the manga's nor have I peeked at any of the spoilers but if I had to guess so far from what I have seen the only one who would pass this exam would be Shikamaru. He didn't use the typical Rambo stand in the middle of the open kill everyone with a bow and arrow while bullets seem to miss you always tactic.

He had a plan the whole entire time and used it to his advantage. He has great leadship aspects and tactics. Course I am biased to Shikamaru because I relate to that kid the most. I was just like him when I was fifteen. Heh I'm still a lazy arsed guy who never applies himself.

Gaz

Tue, 04-20-2004, 11:12 AM

well what so bad about having open taste ?!

Keshin the series, watched the whole TV series. the OVA is boring and (4 dvd's + movie under label of Samouri X in the UK).

The TV series is just like Naruto but with Samouri (in terms of action, character developement and comedy style).

Vandred, as I said, one of my favourites.

BTW trying to compare different anime's is stupid, I like The Shawshank Redemption and Matrix - they are great on their own merits and can never be realistically compared due to a completly different subject matter that they are based upon.

Hellsing is ace - if you watch the whole series in one night i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif Everyone who I know who has seen Hellsing (I mean IRL) , have loved it i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Everyone has their own favourites i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Gaz

Tue, 04-20-2004, 11:25 AM

back on topic.

I loved the frog turning into a huge fox - that was great i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

also I thought that Naruto beating Gaara was amazing , I was jumping up and shouting abuse at Ichiha Sasuke with the middle fingers i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Most excited Ive been about an episode of Naruto yet i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

MemnochTheCaT

Tue, 04-20-2004, 12:54 PM

GaZ, watch the double-posting i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif There's a nice little edit button that works great!

MeoW :X

?igma

Wed, 04-21-2004, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by: Gaz
back on topic.

I loved the frog turning into a huge fox - that was great i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

also I thought that Naruto beating Gaara was amazing , I was jumping up and shouting abuse at Ichiha Sasuke with the middle fingers i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Most excited Ive been about an episode of Naruto yet i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

personally, I would have thought more of it, the Fox kinda disappointed me i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
wasnt comparing series btw, i was comparing ur tastes i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif, quite different actually

Rek

Wed, 04-21-2004, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by: freezel-san
In my opinion, MemnochTheCaT's assessment of Naruto says it all. He is pretty unbalanced. There are some skills that are possibly Jounin-level, and some skills that are still on the lower end of Genin-level. As far as Naruto being ready to become a Chuunin, I think not: he has never demonstrated the ability to lead a group of ninja in a tactical situation, and this is pretty much exactly what a Chuunin is supposed to do.

While beating the crap out of everything that stands in your path in the most obvious manner is impressive, and, in the series, imperative for Konoha's safety, it is not the way of the ninja. The series has been focusing on Naruto's grand-royale-style battles a lot, and perhaps this is why people are so impressed with him. However, we've seen enough of various missions to know that this is not the way of the ninja, and it is not an acceptable mentality for an upper-ranked ninja to have.

He took lead in the "forest of death" or whatever... yeah... and Chuunin are not supposed to be leaders of a tactical group. Chuunins make up the tactical group. What they were doing in the forest, going to get Sasuke, that was a Chuunin Tactical Team. Sakura was screwing around, but Shika was doin a damned fine job... I think Naruto is like the bazooka thick necked army types carry around.... kinda hinders your progress, but will destroy all.

Also, Naruto wasn't really ready to become a Genin, but Iruka bumped him up, and he did fine... he adapts when he has to, they will make him a chuunin, and he'll get stronger by being the least tactical... expect more jutsus (stealth and spying) from this boy

Raven

Wed, 04-21-2004, 07:44 AM

It's a lot easier to be a gennin than a chuunin though. And when did he take the lead in the forrest of death?

freezel-san

Wed, 04-21-2004, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by: Konoha Rek
He took lead in the "forest of death" or whatever... yeah... and Chuunin are not supposed to be leaders of a tactical group. Chuunins make up the tactical group. What they were doing in the forest, going to get Sasuke, that was a Chuunin Tactical Team. Sakura was screwing around, but Shika was doin a damned fine job... I think Naruto is like the bazooka thick necked army types carry around.... kinda hinders your progress, but will destroy all.

Also, Naruto wasn't really ready to become a Genin, but Iruka bumped him up, and he did fine... he adapts when he has to, they will make him a chuunin, and he'll get stronger by being the least tactical... expect more jutsus (stealth and spying) from this boy

If I recall corrently, Chuunins ARE supposed to be able to lead squadrons -- it says so in one of the episodes.

Iruka-sensei did bump him up, true. But he was only supposed to be goin on rank D and C missions -- not exactly putting his, or (more importantly) anyone else's life on the line.

I still have yet to Naruto prove that he is capable of true ninja tactics, let alone leading a group of people in them. Becoming a Chuunin is taking on a whole new level of responsibility that Naruto simply isn't qualified to take on.

Hakeem_21

Wed, 04-21-2004, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn
It's a lot easier to be a gennin than a chuunin though. And when did he take the lead in the forrest of death?

He did come up with the idea of turning his clones into to Sasuke,Kabuto,Sakura to fool the ninjas who attacked themi/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Garlannd

Wed, 04-21-2004, 10:34 AM

Shikamaru has my vote for chuunin! Sasuke doesn't desrve to be yet he is too reckless same with Naruto and Neji. Temari was too easily led into a very nicely set trap by Shikamaru. Shino never got a chance to show off his skils but if we were to base on teh forest I'd say he has somewhat a fair chance to be a Chuunin.

Destroyor

Wed, 04-21-2004, 12:58 PM

I said theses before in the manga forum, and I will repeat there here again.

"Don't confuse cunning with wisdom/good tactic."
"A Chuunin needs to have brain;Jounin is brain + power. Naruto = power alone, therefore Naruto < Chuunin < Jounin"

End of story.

Assertn

Wed, 04-21-2004, 01:00 PM

yeah but you do need power to be able to stand any sort of a chance in the other parts of the exam prior to the main matches

Rek

Wed, 04-21-2004, 03:22 PM

I think he means Genin needs Talent, Chuunin needs brain, genin needs power.... its assumed that you need previous requirements to be up there, so brain+power is repetitive

MemnochTheCaT

Wed, 04-21-2004, 05:03 PM

I wonder if getting a copy of Come Come Paradise is one of the benefits of being a Jounin i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif i/expressions/beer.gif

Gaz

Wed, 04-21-2004, 05:27 PM

MemnochTheCat: I didnt double post, dont tell me you missed out on one of my amazing posts i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

I watched both episodes again today and yes, back to back, they are still the best 2 episodes so far, however , without all the buildup and character development nethier would be so 'amazing' off their on merit.

One thing that catches me is with Kakashi and Gai fighting other Chunin's/Jounin's , they use absolutly no seals and just hand-to-hand combat. Yet still manage to beat all those sand ninja i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

It was so good to see Sasuke being helpless and squriming while Naruto was taking control of the scene and protecting the village. Just to see Sasuke's pride and big-headedness knocked away. Oh yeah! , I dont care what rank Naruto should be, it was so good to watch Sasuke's reaction to Naruto beating gaara in a fight that Sasuke never could have won.

BTW I understand it wasnt really Naruto , it was the frog boss that did all the hard work, but hey , Sasuke couldnt summon him just yet i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif (by now you can probably tell I dont like Sasuke because of his attitude and big-headedness).

*Edit for spellings i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Uchiha-Itachi

Wed, 04-21-2004, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by: Mut@t@
naruto is a joke. i'd say the things he does is about 80% kyubi and 20% him.

so? it's still Naruto he just rules. period i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Only Jiraiya is stronger then him at the moment i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Rek

Wed, 04-21-2004, 05:42 PM

...we haven't seen Oro's boys... and I doubt he could still get Kakashi...

Gaz

Wed, 04-21-2004, 05:51 PM

you mean the 4 holding up the walls , I think they will go down quite easily , probably one the Konoha Jounins go down fighting to make the storyline interesting but I dont think there is much loss and killing to be had on Konoha's side of things....

Kakashi's stronger than Naruto , and all the Genin's so far Imho, but that cant be argued either way because we havnt seen Kakashi fight full-on without having to worry about any genings getting in the way... I think over the next 10 or so Eps Sasuke will get more stronger and prove himself stronger than Naruto again , then the old rivalry will kick in again. Generally speaking as I already said, you cant compare any of the genins for ranks that they 'should' have because no-one has seen them fight anyone higher than their own rank in one-on-one combat. Even Gaara , as hard as he is , was still a genin , albeit a strong one.

Going by the battles we see the Genin's have, the Hokage battle was pretty mediocore, little action and just a story filler for the history of konoha. Naruto is strong as a Genin, but still needs to develope further of course i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif .... leading onto the next story arc. I hope he stays ahead of Sasuke now (I dont like Sasuke i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif )

logic

Wed, 04-21-2004, 06:09 PM

You're kidding, right.

Gaara is more than genin, but was kept at that rank for their (sand) mission into konoha, it fit with their 'plan' on coming into the chuunin exam, along with orichimaru's subordinates, to start the attack. Gaara was intentionally kept at genin level, you can't in your right mind think he is just a genin for real.. don't be stupid.

Further, according to your theory that if you rank is a genin you suck, and if your rank is a jounin you rule, your a fool.

Kabuto, orichamaru's spy, a genin.

'Nuff said.

Gaz

Wed, 04-21-2004, 06:22 PM

Well no , not 'nuff said really.

I see what you are saying there and I agree with you, of course there are better people who are Genins than who are Chunin's but your forgetting the point that these titles need to be earned through examination. Until you have passed the exam, you would still be the grade you was at , even if, technically, you have shown that you are greater than your current rank suggests.

Im not being 'stupid' , I find it hard to read subtitles and may have missed a few things. The other two with Gaara obviously arnt that strong/skillful compared to some of the other genins.

OT : even I wasnt so arragant as to start on the forum and on near enough the same day start giving abuse to other people posting here for no apparent reason. Get some respect for your fellow Naruto fans would you.

Rek

Wed, 04-21-2004, 07:22 PM

what ever.. I agreee with logic. And if your having trouble reading, you should prolly keep your opinions to your self there bub. Anyways... of course Sasuke is gonna get stronger than Naruto, simply because that is what his character is meant to do. They would kill him off before they made him weaker than Naruto...

and thanks logic for reminding me about Kabuto.... I think he will fight Kakashi, given their previous frays, and since Oro told Kabuto so much, a lot of Kakashinformation will ensue, but I'd expect that in a week or two. So, Gaz, you'll get what you want. I think.

...what ev... Raws out, so there will be a craptastic SO sub by friday

LegendarySenninJiraiya

Wed, 04-21-2004, 07:36 PM

i dont care what anyone says, naruto is a good ninja, not even the jounin see thru many of his techniques, for instance the way he beat neji and the trick he pulled on kiba, sure he keeps it simple, but hes a genin, and if it aint broke dont fix it, u guys can say naruto sucks or you hate him but you all know it isnt true and you probably all cheer him on when it's going on, also, pretty soon we'll see naruto doing some more extraordinary stuff so ull eat your words and feet all at once

naruto is a good ninja, in fact hes a very good ninja, hes just a very good genin and i dont think there are any genin in the world of naruto that oculd beat him, in fact i'd have a hard time seeing chuunin beat him

also about the Gama Bunta thing, to go with what the basic rule of anime fact is if a char. says it it's true, Naruto said himself when he called on the big power (Kyubi) he uses a "red" chakra, and u see in the show everytime he uses it he turns red, in the ep he called Bunta with blue chakra, he was yet to run out of chakra, despite being very low afterwards, so the fact that only the 3rd Hokage can call/take control of Gama bunta shows u that he has enormous chakra stamina/potential, kakashi even says he will surpass "us all" some day, there are no grounds in the series thus far to label him a bad ninja, poor chakra control does not make u a poor ninja, if thats the case sakura is one of the best ninjas out there and thats not even marginally true, if you havent noticed, naruto's combat strategies when he forms them are much like shikamaru's, and he doesnt sit there behind a tree while thinking of them, he does it on the spot and they work, and he has more htan enough chakra/power to pull em off, so have whatever gripes u must about naruto hes still a great ninja, just a lil rough around the edges like them all, cuz they are all genin

but one thing i must say about Naruto is that he is by no means chuunin/jounin material, he cares too much about the fight, gets too emotional, will burn himself out to prove a point, he doesnt think safely, he thinks about winning at all costs, that's good for a mindless warrior, not a chuunin and not a jounin who will be putting genin in danger, so the moral of the story is naruto = good ninja, naruto=strong, good stamina without kyuubi, but naruto = unfit to lead/ unfit to be chuunin/jounin

Uchiha-Itachi

Thu, 04-22-2004, 06:31 AM

What can kakashi do against Gamabunta + Naruto (powered by Kyubi) at the same time? be realistic Naruto ownz teh place i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Naruto for sage! i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif gamabunta + kyubi powah !!! not even Itachi stands a chance imo i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

kawarimi

Thu, 04-22-2004, 07:36 AM

How do you know Naruto isn't a chuunin? Well not officially, but if the chuunin exam finished, I think all those who fought would become chuunin. If you say "Why do you think Naruto is still a genin?", it's because he hasn't taken the chuunin exam yet! (It hasn't finished.)

They displayed high level jounin technuques (Neji, Gaara, Naruto, Sasuke). Shikamaru showed great tactics. They can become chuunin because their techniques make up for their other shortfalls. They don't need to be super good all round to become chuunin, because they'll learn those after they become chuunin by getting more experience.

Fighting Gaara was an A rank mission. Didn't Kakashi say that to Sakura at the stadium? (Can't remember but probably not because nobody else mentioned it.) Naruto can use high level techniques, and has enough chakra control to walk on water. He even copied Sasuke's (who copied Lee) taijutsu in the preliminaries. His strategies are smart too (examples mentioned before in this thread). Naruto's good all round, deserving to be a chuunin (not Jounin).

How can you compare with Hayate? We haven't seen him do very much so we don't know his potential. People talk like Hayate's not very good. Anko's probably very good as well since she was taught by Oorochimaru.

freezel-san

Thu, 04-22-2004, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by: Gaz
Im not being 'stupid'

You're not being 'stupid,' you're just being plain stupid. User 'logic' is 100% correct.

As for Naruto being stronger than everyone other than Jiraiya.... that is preposterous.

Most of the konoha jounins could kick his ass, especially Kakashi. Summoning gambunta is a nice idea -- except that no one would ever allow him to complete the summoning.

Also, Naruto doesn't seem all that consistent on being able to summon the frog boss. He seems to have a lot of difficulty using fox demon chakra unless he and/or his friends are in mortal danger. Recall that the first time he tried to summon him, he failed and summoned his absolutely tiny son. We've seen Naruto's shadow clones get beaten a million times. Naruto's cannot even peform his one significant ability -- summoning the frog boss -- on a reliable basis.

If there were a death match between Naruto and Sasuke, I would definitely put my money on Sasuke. He is a much better ninja in almost all respects, and he is so fast with Lightning Edge that he could probably get to Naruto before the frog boss could stop him, if Nartuo even managed to summon him.

Uchiha-Itachi

Thu, 04-22-2004, 03:58 PM

Yeh keep on underestimating Naruto ...

Mut

Thu, 04-22-2004, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by: Uchiha-Itachi
What can kakashi do against Gamabunta + Naruto (powered by Kyubi) at the same time? be realistic Naruto ownz teh place i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Naruto for sage! i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif gamabunta + kyubi powah !!! not even Itachi stands a chance imo i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

too bad naruto won't have a chance to summon anything or even get to kyubi state. kakashi would put his chidori right through naruto's face before naruto can cry about being weak.

Rek

Thu, 04-22-2004, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by: kawarimi

Fighting Gaara was an A rank mission. Didn't Kakashi say that to Sakura at the stadium? (Can't remember but probably not because nobody else mentioned it.) Naruto can use high level techniques, and has enough chakra control to walk on water. He even copied Sasuke's (who copied Lee) taijutsu in the preliminaries. His strategies are smart too (examples mentioned before in this thread). Naruto's good all round, deserving to be a chuunin (not Jounin).

Nope... not even fighting Gaara was an A rank mission. Stopping Sasuke from fighting Gaara was an A rank mission. For a Genin to be running from a bunch of Jounin, trying to fight the TRUMP CARD Of A FUCKING NINJA CLAN would most definately be a special mission.

Now about Naruto using Gamabunta in a fight.... there are certain people da great frog boss won't fight, ie: anyone of konoha most likely, so say, if Naruto were to spar with Ero-sennin, and lost his head abit, and were to say, summon the Frog Boss correctly, there would just be a giant frog watching the match... nothing more.

So, don't bank of Naruto's usage of the frog thing, k (PS- he summoned him purty quick while in that there desert coffin... I'd reckon that there was some o the fast hands in the west...er east)

Gaz

Fri, 04-23-2004, 03:26 AM

If I was a Green belt in Karate and spared , and beat, a black belt , that would show that I was better than a black belt, HOWEVER , I am still a green belt because I havnt taken the relevant exams to prove myself as a higher grade than a green belt.

Its the way of the world I am afraid, I am not 'stupid', I have a strong understanding of why this is the case and a number of arguements agaisnt what you are 'stupidly' stating.

With reguards to the actual fight between Gaara and Naruto, without being able to summon Gamabunta, Naruto would have been mashed to pieces, but he did, and won.

Going by the Anime no-one can say either way what chakra was used to summon the frog king because the summoning is not shown in anyway.

However, going by what has been shown before, Naruto can only summing a little a frog without using the red chakra.

I mean I see two arguements here that I dont really know/care for (other than the fact he summoned the frog).

Naruto's Blue Chakra:
He used his blue chakra because he got true strength for fighting to save those that he loves.

Naruto's Red Chakra:
He used his red chakra because he was just about to die so called upon Kyubi to save his own skin.

freezel-san

Fri, 04-23-2004, 07:57 AM

There is absolutely zero chance that Naruto summoned Gamabunta at ANY point without Kyubi's chakra. Zero. There are no arguments to consider in favor of the idea. The series has made it very clear that Naruto does not have nearly enough chakra on his own to accomplish such a thing.

Gaz

Fri, 04-23-2004, 09:09 AM

Hnmm did you actually read what I stated:

However, going by what has been shown before, Naruto can only summing a little a frog without using the red chakra.

and

I mean I see two arguements here

As in, I understand what people are arguing their point about however as I stated before there is no evidence to support what chakra he used.

Enigmatic_Paragon

Fri, 04-23-2004, 10:04 AM

Im going to regret wasting time here tomorrow but.......

Lets get some things straightened - some of the arguments used here were so outrageous it became irresitable to answer them.

1) Naruto CANNOT have summoned the frog boss with his own chakra - it is stated quite clearly by Jiriaya when he is teaching Naruto the summoning technique, that he doesnt have enough chakra. All these notions about him summoning the frog boss because he has attained the true meaning of strength are in a word - silly. The theme of the true strength is reccurrent throughout many anime and stories and is most certainly does not involve suddenly becoming wildly powerful when you are protecting someone.
As for arguments involving seeing red chakra when Naruto uses the Kyubi's chakra, we can put that down as oversights in the animation teams efforts. Lets face it, theyre there to produce an enjoyable story, not one that is correct to every last detail.

2) This series is must definately not called naruto because Naruto is/may be the most powerful ninja of all time or someshuch. If you paid attention to the overall characters in the team, you'd notice something very obvious. The team follows a very traditional structure, with strengths and weaknesses. Take a look at a variation of the traditional view of a person - Mind, body, heart/soul. In Naruto, we can see quite clearly 3 aspects in each character - Mind, Body - as specified in the chunnin exam - and heart, which in this case is largely associated with "true strength". To date (although the characters have begun to develop) Sakura is weak in the body, but strong in mind. Naruto is not terribly intelligent, but is seen to have a good heart. Saskue, perhaps the closest to having equality amongst the three at the start of the story is strong at combat (body) but has a cold attitude (weak in heart). Notice how the three characters start out with inherent differences?
That can be seen to emphasize a number of different things, but perhaps the most important is teamwork, which is specifically singled out right at the start. Those who go about sprouting the proposition that the series is called Naruto because Naruto will almost certainly become powerful at the end of it have ***COMPLETELY*** missed the point of the story, and then some. To bring up some final things you should notice when dissecting and analysing Naruto - notice that its mentioned several times that Naruto is the type of guy who could never be the main character of a story. I leave it to you to make the final connections about what this means in terms of story meaning.

3) Jounin Requirements: We dont know them! Thats right. So far, we have yet to encounter anything remotely resembling criteria for qualifying to be a jounin. Everything we have is based on pure speculation and observation of existing jounins. Hence, any suggestion that Naruto qualifies to be a jounin on *any* front has no real basis in fact! What we can do (and what has been done) is compare Naruto's skills with other characters. While this may yield some interesting comparisons, it again fails deal with the problem of exact criteria.

4) Naruto's skill. It has been brought up briefly in this thread, and extensively in other threads not confined to this forum as well. To shoot down the biggest turkey, lets start of with this notion that Naruto is a genuis. He isnt - and thats regardless of how you stretch the meaning of the word. Genuis in the normal sense means you are incredibly talented in a particular field, so much so that you far surpass the typical smart guy/girl who gets 95% in all his subjects. Statistically, it means that true genuises are few and far between, and the probability of a randomly chosen baby being a genuis is so small its basically negligible.
In Naruto, the word has taken on an expanded meaning to include those who are genetically superior to others - IE primarily the Uchia and Hyuga clans, and whatever Haku's clan was.
Now, notice that Naruto does not satisfy either the original definition of genuis or the expanded definition. He instead has the Kyubi which could easily have ended up in another random baby. The reference to Lee being a genuis of hard work likely referred to the fact that he was incredibly hard working beyond others in the same way that normal genuises are innately smarter than others. Shikamaru is currently the only true genuis we have encountered so far.

Now were past the genuis ideas, we can examine Naruto's actual skill, which is *full* of contradictions primarily because of the need to have Naruto save the day as the main character. Although the story tries to account for the often ludricrous leaps in skill, it doesnt quite manage it. This normally doesnt matter as were supposed to employ something called suspension of disbelief when were watching movies/similar things, but while were analysing it with a magnifying glass, this luxury goes out the window.

Lets start of with his intelligence. As it currently stands, we are positioned to view Naruto as possessing to put it nicely "below average" intelligence. If I were extreme, I might say that were he any less intelligent, he may start to fall into the borderline "mentally challenged" category, and if I were at the other extreme I might concievably - albiet with prodigious stretches of interpretation - say Naruto is at least average to above average intelligent. As it is, les just go with below average - significantly below average because the author of this story has quite clearly positioned us towards this interpretation, and in this case the author's intention is the only one that counts.

Hmmm....... running out of time.

Very quickly, Naruto is a genin and for good reason. First exam: He passed because he had courage, but he completely failed if you look at the first intention of the exam. 2nd exam - Doesnt really count because of inteference from Orochimaru, but he contributed more because of his stamina than any actual skill in fighting. 3rd Exam - the two commenting examiners peg him down as a fail.

Conclusion: Naruto isnt qualified to become a chunin let alone jounin. You could say he has a large normal chakra capacity, but certainly we cannot say it matches that of jounins. It is only with the added chakra of the Kyubi that he attains a comparable level of chakra. His actual skills (encompassing tai, gen, and ninjutsu) seem averagish to above average at best, but certainly not exceptional. Im not going to speculate as to whether that is sufficient for jounin or chunin qualifications because simply we arnt given that information. His brains leave alot to be desired. IMHO, barring some massive and unlikely change in intelligence, the only way he'd ever become Hokage is if a bad guy killed off everyone else in the village who was more qualified than him. Why? Because I'd presume being Hokage takes more than decent ninja skills which anyone could acquire with enough time and effort. It requires wisdom and intelligence to lead the village. That said, this *is* just a story intended primarily to entertain people, and like all stories were supposed to suspend disbelief. Therefore even if something is realistically unlikely, we shouldnt be surprised if it happens.