Who would win?

[originalkrn]

Very powerful, feared, and amazing. Who do YOU think would win when both are in their prime?

[kaigan]

fourth, no doubt

[Knives122]

I think it would be a tie

[L8r]

i go with the 4th

[jing]

fourth.....
cuz fourth would just call out gamabunta, and gamabunta will just JUMP on itachi. THE END.

[Mut]

who the hell voted for itachi? i'm a big itachi fan but even i know that the 4th can whoop everyone's ass. PERIOD.

[Beautiful Green Beast]

mm wait a minuite!
if im right, the THIRD (not the fourth) is said to be the strongest among the Hokages.

And the third defeated Orochimaru, but sacrifised his own life.

Orochimaru is weeker than Itachi, if you believe Oros words.

basically: Fourth is said to be weaker than the third who barelly could defeat Orochimaru, whos (as I said before) weaker than Itachi.

You just have to compare the information.

[Raven]

It doesn't always work like that though. Think of Rock/Paper/Scissors.

Scissors > Paper, and Rock > than Scissors. Does that mean Rock > Paper? No.

So just because the 4th is slightly weaker than the 3rd doesn't mean he's weaker than Itachi also. Plus, your information is incorrect, because when the 3rd barely beat Oro he was a weak, old man. The 3rd in his prime wouldn't have any trouble.

[Evil Eyes]

The third barely beated Oro because he was too old. Remember even Oro said that if the third was just 10 years older he would have beaten him. He didn't even mention what would have happenend if the third was his prime. I bet that Oro will be toasted in seconds. N o disrespect to Oro, he is a powerful ninja, but the 3rd wasn't called the god of shinobi for nothing.

Anyway 4th vs Itachi, dunno really, but I'll go with 4th.

[MemnochTheCaT]

The 4th i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif Itachi = good but extremely overrated at this point

[Death BOO Z]

Remember what Anko said in the tower of death?
she said that if the 4th was around then there would be no problems,implying that the 4th was considerably stronger than anyone else around, even Orochimaru, so Itachi shouldn't be that diffrent for him to take care of.

I'll give my2 cents for the 4th hokage, just cuz i feel like it...

[Raven]

She might have said that because of the confidence he inspired, it's been said that he's a great leader and inspires confidence and happiness in his people.

Plus, he was in his prime. I think the 4th vs Itachi would be a great battle, pretty close, but the 4th would win. It's really difficult to say, because we haven't seen all of Itachi's abilities, and we've NEVER seen the 4th fight, save the kyuubi sealing, and that wasn't even a proper fight.

It's kind of funny that a VS. thread has been made for two characters we don't know the abilities of. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

[MemnochTheCaT]

Yep CmDr_RavEn has an excellent point, we have gotten to see very little of either.

The main reasons I have for choosing the 4th is that you don't get to be Hokage for nothing, especially to replace the 3rd! If the 4th had reached a strength greater than the 3rd due to the 3rds advancing age (13 years earlier?), then the 3rd nearly defeated Orochimaru AND the 1st AND the 2nd .. after getting OLDER... then .. I would say that the 4th must have been one hell of a force to reckon with.

Itachi seems very over-rated. The reason? He has goals, he came for them and FAILED. He had to run away twice already. This is an indication of his intelligence, which I would rate as high, considering he doesn't want to risk defeat against very powerful opponents. This is also an indication of his weakness, because if he was truly god-like, he would simply have already taken what he wants.

[Gods_Son]

I'm not sure, but I think it's a misunderstanding that the 3rd is stronger than the 4th. I think it was meant that the 3rd in his prime was stronger than the others before him, which doesn't include Itachi. If the 3rd were stronger than the 4th then it probably would've been him that took care of Kyubi.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Thats an interesting way to look at it. I took it that the 3rd was getting old, and his powers were weakening with age, so that a point was reached where it was logical for the 3rd to retire when the 4th exceeded his strength. With that logic, then at the time of the Kyuubi attack, the 4th may have been the strongest nin available at that time.

Seems like ...

the 3rd's advantages are .. determination, knowledge of very many jutsu
the 4th's advantages are .. summoning, rasengan, huge chakra, youth

[itachi_]

It will be tie as hell but fourth will summon the deathgod and he'll do some awesome technique that he've never showned before, but still it will be the battle of the century, it's the hardest opponent for yondaime.

[Mut]

stop arguing this...we're talking about the 4th here...itachi can't win you clowns!

[itachi_]

h0h0 dazz shouldn't you change your signature? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

[GhostKaGe]

im sick of these whos who would win in a fight threads unless they actually fight we'll never know and 4th vs itachi is never likely to happen althought hypatheticaly speaking if it did happen the 4th would kick his a$$

[sangai]

yes i too am tired of these threads, but will still take part

the fourth would win why you ask,

the fourth: BITCH IM RICK JAMES, whats the hand say to the face *slap

itachi:im scared

lol

[Mut]

Originally posted by: itachi_
h0h0 dazz shouldn't you change your signature? i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

if you're referring to #2, then no. itachi is alive and the 4th is not. therefore, itachi is the strongest character introduced and alive so far.

[itachi_]

What about Jiraya??, he can easily beat Itachi. and hokage 3rd also

[Vagabond]

hm discuss this elsewhere.

[hiten mitsurugi]

the fourth is the strongest of all Hokages. He was a genious at developing death jutsus. When they called the third the god of all Hokages, that was probably because the fourth had died saving the village. If the third was really stronger than the fourth, why wasn't he fighting Kyubi? They called the third the professor, only because he knew all the jutsu. Just because you know it doensn't mean that you can use it to its full capacity. For example, Naruto knows rasengan, but he can't use it to its full capacity. The third lost the match to Oro, because he didn't know how to use the fourth's seal to its fullest potential. Think about it, the fourth sealed Kyubi, one of the great youkai. The third was just trying to seal another human being.

The fourth is the strongest hokage. The fourth would have beat the living hell out of Itachi, without breaking a sweat.

[Raven]

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
the fourth is the strongest of all Hokages. He was a genious at developing death jutsus. When they called the third the god of all Hokages, that was probably because the fourth had died saving the village. If the third was really stronger than the fourth, why wasn't he fighting Kyubi? They called the third the professor, only because he knew all the jutsu. Just because you know it doensn't mean that you can use it to its full capacity. For example, Naruto knows rasengan, but he can't use it to its full capacity. The third lost the match to Oro, because he didn't know how to use the fourth's seal to its fullest potential. Think about it, the fourth sealed Kyubi, one of the great youkai. The third was just trying to seal another human being.

The fourth is the strongest hokage. The fourth would have beat the living hell out of Itachi, without breaking a sweat.
The 3rd knew how to use the 4th's seal to it's fullest potential, but as he said himself he didn't have 'enough strength in this old body' to perform it, hence the fact that he made do with just sealing the arms. If he was 10 years younger, he could have done it completely, as Oro said.

I also think the 3rd was called "god of all shinobi" or "lord of all shinobi", but this was in his prime, which leads me to believe that 3rd in his prime > 4th. The reason the 4th fought kyuubi instead of the 3rd is because at that point the 3rd was a much older, weaker man. Had the 3rd been in his prime, it most likely would have been him fighting kyuubi.

[Gods_Son]

yes, the third was called "lord of all shinobi" in his prime, but that was before the 4th's time. The third also knows how to use the sealing technique to it's full potential, but he states that it was the 4ths jutsu originally. Age just decreased the amount of charka/strength that the 3rd had, I doubt that he would've been a ridiculous amount better than what he was when he died.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn
The 3rd knew how to use the 4th's seal to it's fullest potential, but as he said himself he didn't have 'enough strength in this old body' to perform it, hence the fact that he made do with just sealing the arms. If he was 10 years younger, he could have done it completely, as Oro said.

I also think the 3rd was called "god of all shinobi" or "lord of all shinobi", but this was in his prime, which leads me to believe that 3rd in his prime > 4th. The reason the 4th fought kyuubi instead of the 3rd is because at that point the 3rd was a much older, weaker man. Had the 3rd been in his prime, it most likely would have been him fighting kyuubi.


We're talking about the fourth sealing the strongest of all youkai, this youkai isn't just sitting there waiting to be sealed. Kyubi isn't even near human and I don't care at what age. It was far harder to seal Kyubi, then being old trying to seal a simple human. If the sealing of Kyubi happened like it did in the anime/manga, then "NO" the third didn't understand the sealing jutsu completely. In the anime/manga the fourth sealed Kyubi during a bright flash of light, plus he sealed Kyubi into Naruto. The fourth also didn't have physical contact with Kyubi during the seal, he was on Gamabunta's head. (if it happened like it did in the anime 1st episode).

Yes, you're correct on the prime issue. Thus he was called this only because the 4th wasn't old enough. With that being said, the fourth must have been a very strong individual to succeed the third.

I'm sure that when Kyubi attacked, every able bodied ninja was at the scene. There is no way a person like the third would just lounge around while the city that he lived in was being attacked. Therefore if he could have done something he would have.

[primalspas]

i don't think you guys understand, kishimoto didn't pull some of these characters out of his ass. Sarutobi (the third) is based on sarutobi sasuke who was considered the best REAL ninja in japanese history (hence why his two favorite characters are named sarutobi and sasuke). The third is based on the greatest ninja of all time and no one has ever surpassed him. He was called, even till the time of his death, the god of all ninja. I don't think you really see this, the third beat the first, the second, summoned Enma, sealed the first and the second, pulled off a bunch of sweet ass jutsus, and he is seventy or eighty. When you are that old tell me that you are just as strong as you are now. So track back some and make the third 20 or so and he would be one scary ass dude.

[hiten mitsurugi]

If you were the strongest person in your village and there is no term for being hokage. Would you select a successor just because they met a certain criteria? Keep into consideration that fact that there is no time restraints for being hokage. I don't see someone as strong as the third selecting a successor unless he was stronger than himself. He has shown us how much he loved the village. If the fourth wasn't stronger than third why didn't the third just remain hokage. The third remained hokage and didn't announce a successor since the fourth's death, because unless he finds someone stronger than himself. He can defend the city better than anybody else can. And remember what the title of Hokage stands for, it is given to the strongest in the village.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi


Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn
The 3rd knew how to use the 4th's seal to it's fullest potential, but as he said himself he didn't have 'enough strength in this old body' to perform it, hence the fact that he made do with just sealing the arms. If he was 10 years younger, he could have done it completely, as Oro said.

I also think the 3rd was called "god of all shinobi" or "lord of all shinobi", but this was in his prime, which leads me to believe that 3rd in his prime > 4th. The reason the 4th fought kyuubi instead of the 3rd is because at that point the 3rd was a much older, weaker man. Had the 3rd been in his prime, it most likely would have been him fighting kyuubi.


We're talking about the fourth sealing the strongest of all youkai, this youkai isn't just sitting there waiting to be sealed. Kyubi isn't even near human and I don't care at what age. It was far harder to seal Kyubi, then being old trying to seal a simple human. If the sealing of Kyubi happened like it did in the anime/manga, then "NO" the third didn't understand the sealing jutsu completely. In the anime/manga the fourth sealed Kyubi during a bright flash of light, plus he sealed Kyubi into Naruto. The fourth also didn't have physical contact with Kyubi during the seal, he was on Gamabunta's head. (if it happened like it did in the anime 1st episode).

hiten...you're over analyzing things again. kishimoto purposely showed ONLY a bright flash during the "sealing" of kyubi just to show us that 4th was the one who did it... there really isn't a point in going deep into the 4th's sealing technique since it's not important. and you may ask, "how do you know this, you're not kishimoto" clearly i'm not, but i've watched enough animes/tv/movies to know that showing the 4th sealing the kyubi isn't important. they do this (showing very small clips/flash backs of god-like figures) to glorify their existence, mystery, and what they have done to earn such title. for example, they show itachi and his sharingan eyes show that itachi is someone to be feared.

and for your theory on choosing hokages...when choosing someone for leadership, that chosen person doesn't have to be the STRONGEST or whatever. for example, when choosing a general for an army...people don't choose the best shot, they choose the best strategist. there is no reason for the 4th to be stronger than the 3rd cuz the 3rd is gonna have to eventually choose a hokage since he is getting old. he just chose the ninja that was best suited for the title of a hokage.

[Raven]

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
If you were the strongest person in your village and there is no term for being hokage. Would you select a successor just because they met a certain criteria? Keep into consideration that fact that there is no time restraints for being hokage. I don't see someone as strong as the third selecting a successor unless he was stronger than himself. He has shown us how much he loved the village. If the fourth wasn't stronger than third why didn't the third just remain hokage. The third remained hokage and didn't announce a successor since the fourth's death, because unless he finds someone stronger than himself. He can defend the city better than anybody else can. And remember what the title of Hokage stands for, it is given to the strongest in the village.
Sometimes people just retire, either because they're too old, they've had enough, or whatever. I'm just saying that the 4th wasn't necessarily stronger than the 3rd, in fact there's more evidence proving that he wasn't (if you consider the 3rd's nickname).

Just because the 3rd picked a successor, doesn't mean that successor was better or stronger than him. He was just finishing being the Hokage, that's all, and he picked someone to take his place. After the 4th died, there wasn't anyone suitable to take his place, so the 3rd had to take up the title again, most likely on the constant search of the 5th. Then Oro, Jiraiya and Tsu rocked up, and changed everything.

[Uzumaki Naruto]

the 4th will mop the floor with itachis ass, plus he also knows that forbiden jutsu that seals u away after using it. plus he can just summon gama bunta and make him sit on his ass. btw he also was the one who created resengan which as we all know is a killer move

[CapsuleCorpJX]

4th would win. The 4th always have the last move of sealing up his enemy's soul. Of course in that case both would techincally lose.

Itachi > Orochimaru > Old 3rd.

However, its hard to really compare ninjas. This isn't DBZ where brute strength is the key. As you can see, Shikamaru is really weak, but he has won because of his intelligence.

[MemnochTheCaT]

Considering that Itachi ran away from an injured Jiraiya, even though he also had Kisame by his side, Itachi seems far too weak to compare to either the 3rd OR 4th. I think Itachi is about on the same level as Orochimaru, regardless of what Oro said. Oro has a big mouth, and says lots of things that don't necessarily follow logic, such is the mind of a sociopathic maniac.

[Mut]

Originally posted by: MemnochTheCaT
Considering that Itachi ran away from an injured Jiraiya, even though he also had Kisame by his side, Itachi seems far too weak to compare to either the 3rd OR 4th.

itachi didn't run away, every stop saying that. it's clear why he retreated and it is explained fully in the manga...

[MemnochTheCaT]

Run away / retreat .. isn't that about the same thing? Having to abandon combat in order to escape? It's particularly interesting because the target they were after was *right there*, all they had to do was defeat Jiraiya, knock Naruto out, and bam, they're done.

[Gods_Son]

I'm sick of this bullshit about Itachi running from Jiraiya or that he ran from Gai. Using the Mange Sharingan is draining to the user, and he didn't want to get a big problem going throughout the village, so he thought it'd be in his best interest to retreat. Kishimoto wouldn't have Oro admit to being weaker than Itachi just to show that Oro had a big mouth and is crazy, that's just stupid. Jiraiya didn't do anything spectacular to scare Itachi, in fact he broke throw his stomach jutsu like it was nothing. We still don't know the full extent of Itachi's skills, but I'm almost certain that his skills can compare to the older 3rd and any of the Legendary 3, I don't think he was up to the 4ths level though.

[Raven]

Originally posted by: KonohamaruCorps
I'm sick of this bullshit about Itachi running from Jiraiya or that he ran from Gai. Using the Mange Sharingan is draining to the user, and he didn't want to get a big problem going throughout the village, so he thought it'd be in his best interest to retreat. Kishimoto wouldn't have Oro admit to being weaker than Itachi just to show that Oro had a big mouth and is crazy, that's just stupid. Jiraiya didn't do anything spectacular to scare Itachi, in fact he broke throw his stomach jutsu like it was nothing. We still don't know the full extent of Itachi's skills, but I'm almost certain that his skills can compare to the older 3rd and any of the Legendary 3, I don't think he was up to the 4ths level though.
Very well said. Finally someone gets it. But let's not get into this discussion again, there's a whole thread full of it.

[originalkrn]

Originally posted by: jing
fourth.....
cuz fourth would just call out gamabunta, and gamabunta will just JUMP on itachi. THE END.

Well Naruto can summon it too, and i don't think Naruto can really kill Itachi(unless his ninetails power saves him, which it probably would...) , but I'm pretty sure Itachi would have some way to win against even gamabunta

[Mut]

i think, such a large size would be a disadvantage in certain situation especially for someone who is extremely fast as itachi.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn


Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
If you were the strongest person in your village and there is no term for being hokage. Would you select a successor just because they met a certain criteria? Keep into consideration that fact that there is no time restraints for being hokage. I don't see someone as strong as the third selecting a successor unless he was stronger than himself. He has shown us how much he loved the village. If the fourth wasn't stronger than third why didn't the third just remain hokage. The third remained hokage and didn't announce a successor since the fourth's death, because unless he finds someone stronger than himself. He can defend the city better than anybody else can. And remember what the title of Hokage stands for, it is given to the strongest in the village.
Sometimes people just retire, either because they're too old, they've had enough, or whatever. I'm just saying that the 4th wasn't necessarily stronger than the 3rd, in fact there's more evidence proving that he wasn't (if you consider the 3rd's nickname).

Just because the 3rd picked a successor, doesn't mean that successor was better or stronger than him. He was just finishing being the Hokage, that's all, and he picked someone to take his place. After the 4th died, there wasn't anyone suitable to take his place, so the 3rd had to take up the title again, most likely on the constant search of the 5th. Then Oro, Jiraiya and Tsu rocked up, and changed everything.

Let's use your example of the nick name. If they gave the nick name (god of all shinobi) to the third, then the fourth came along and was way more powerful than the third. Obviously the fourth deserved the nick name more than the third, but since the third came before the fourth, he got the nick name. The village can not take away such a name once bestowed upon someone of the thirds caliber. Even if the fourth deserved it. That's why the nick names don't mean anything.

Do you guys know what the term successor means. We're not talking about a royal family, who because of lineage becomes hokage. We're talking about the strongest person in the clan, not best suited as you suggest. Retirement was my whole point. The third was indeed strong, but because the fourth came along, who was stronger; he felt like he could retire. Notice how after the fourth died, there wasn't anyone stronger than himself to be named hokage, therefore he remained hokage, even to old age.

Dazzz, when printers are manufactured lets say an HP laserjet 2000dn. It prints 10 pages black per minute. Then it's successor is introduced, an HP laserjet 5000, and it prints 21 pages black per minute. Do you see how a successor has to be stronger or better than it's predecessor, or else it will be quickly replaced by another.

Dazzz, you can't simply pick parts you say has no value and other parts that have extreme value. For example, when Oro says that Itachi is stronger than himself. You cling to that as if it's the life of the Naruto manga. Yet it was just something that occured in the manga. Are you over-analyzing this qoute? To someone like me that qoute really doesn't have any meaning because nothing has happened to support anything yet. No one know how to use a jutsu better than the person who invented it. For Example, no one know how to use the sexy no jutsu better than Naruto. There is a difference between being to old to complete a jutsu and complete knowledge of a jutsu.

[Mut]

how is clinging to "itachi is stronger than myself" over analyzing? i've said it many times before, i'm taking that quote as it is. itachi is stronger than orochimaru. DONE. that's all there is to think about.

your example with the hp printers is absurd. you're making an example of something so one dimensional and comparing it to what we are talking about right now where we have to consider more than ONE single thing and it's ridiculous. are you kidding me?

i'm not even gonna bother tossing out a counter-argument cuz your example is weaker than hinata. possibly even sakura.

[Knives122]

In my opinion all 4 Hokages could of beat Itachi, they could use techniques that Itachi could never comprehend, and if Itachi even fought any of them, it would be like a blade of grass fighting a steam roller, theres no comparison with the power of Itachi and the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, or 1st

[Hyuuga Hinata]

Naah i dont think so.Since itachi is mostlikely stronger then orochimaru non of the first 3 hokages would be able to do it.The 1st and the 4th had trouble with defeating the 3th while the 3th already had probs with oro.The 4th would probarbly the only one that has a chance.

[originalkrn]

Originally posted by: Hyuuga Hinata
Naah i dont think so.Since itachi is mostlikely stronger then orochimaru non of the first 3 hokages would be able to do it.The 1st and the 4th had trouble with defeating the 3th while the 3th already had probs with oro.The 4th would probarbly the only one that has a chance.

Well, the 3rd in his prime would have killed Oro in seconds. Probably the 1st and 2nd were not fighting with their actual potential as if they were alive in their prime since they were being controlled by Oro. Lol and by your first "4th" do you mean "2nd" ?

[Beautiful Green Beast]

the 4th reveals himself as... MICHAEL JACKSON!
and he defeats Itachi with his Moonwalk No jutsu!! KYAAAAAA!

[itachi_]

cough cough....Despite the fact that all four hokages were about the same in strenge, none was weaker then the other... talking about their primes..

[Raven]

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
Let's use your example of the nick name. If they gave the nick name (god of all shinobi) to the third, then the fourth came along and was way more powerful than the third. Obviously the fourth deserved the nick name more than the third, but since the third came before the fourth, he got the nick name. The village can not take away such a name once bestowed upon someone of the thirds caliber. Even if the fourth deserved it. That's why the nick names don't mean anything.

Do you guys know what the term successor means. We're not talking about a royal family, who because of lineage becomes hokage. We're talking about the strongest person in the clan, not best suited as you suggest. Retirement was my whole point. The third was indeed strong, but because the fourth came along, who was stronger; he felt like he could retire. Notice how after the fourth died, there wasn't anyone stronger than himself to be named hokage, therefore he remained hokage, even to old age.
When the 4th became the Hokage, it was because he was stronger than the current Hokage, because the current Hokage was a weak (I use that word loosely), old man. BUT, this does not mean that the 4th was stronger than what the 3rd ever was in his younger life. My only point in this entire discussion was that the 3rd in his prime was more than likely stronger than the 4th ever was.

And I'm sorry, no offense dude but that printer example has no relevance and makes no sense in this discussion, the concept of creating a machine that is better than a previous model is entirely different to choosing someone who is good for a certain position.

[MemnochTheCaT]

My whole question was dodged in an infantile fashion, KonoCorps. It's not bullshit to wonder why a supposedly 'godlike' character had to abandon his goal for the time being .. who was RIGHT THERE in front of him. Mange sharingan draining? Sure, but shouldn't someone as 'godlike' be able to go ahead and achieve their mission? Jiraiya was already weakened, and probably used another decent bit of chakra with the stomach summoning. Sasuke was toast, and Naruto is not even on the same level. So you end up with 2 v 1 effectively, and the 1 already injured. It's pretty fishy all the way around.

I think the bottom line is that this is FICTION, and being subject to the whims of Kishimoto's imagination rather than to pure harsh logic, odd things will happen that don't always make sense. Take from it what you will, but don't throw a tantrum just because someone doesn't agree with you.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: CmDr_RavEn

When the 4th became the Hokage, it was because he was stronger than the current Hokage, because the current Hokage was a weak (I use that word loosely), old man. BUT, this does not mean that the 4th was stronger than what the 3rd ever was in his younger life. My only point in this entire discussion was that the 3rd in his prime was more than likely stronger than the 4th ever was.

And I'm sorry, no offense dude but that printer example has no relevance and makes no sense in this discussion, the concept of creating a machine that is better than a previous model is entirely different to choosing someone who is good for a certain position.

Well lets do the math. Naruto is what like 13. People say that the 4th was in his mid 30's. the old man is like how old, let's say early 70. So 70-35 = 35. So the third would have been 35 when the fourth was born. Now the question is at what age did the fourth become hokage? If he bacame hokage at the age of 15 then the third would have been 50. Now the question is, what age do you consider to be their prime? But, the point is that the third wasn't that old. He gave way to a better, stronger, inventive ninja. Look at Jaraiya and Tsunade in their 50's, they are all exceptional ninjas and are very strong. Tsunade is stronger now then in her prime. Her statement about Kabuto proves that. So not every ninja hits their peak in terms of strength and skill during their prime. The fourth was just overall better then the 3rd.

The printer was the best example of succession. Let's take dazzz example of a general. I'll make that general a lieutenant instead. Remember in vietnam when the platoon would shoot their own seargents or lieutenants. The statistics was like a military officer didn't last on the front for more than 14 minutes. Yes, he qualified to be a lieutenant, but because he wasn't strong enough his own men killed him.

It's called "survival of the fittest." If you do not have a leader with absolute strength, there will be civil turmoil as people begin to develop different parties. Only the strongest survive. I'm sure that the third could have carried the village to the current time without retiring, because he was such an exceptional ninja. But. he knew that the fourth was stronger, so he passed torch.

[Mut]

i'ma stay out of this argument for now...but where does it say that the 4th was in mid 30's?

[Evil Eyes]

So if not every ninja hits their peak in terms of strength and skill during their prime, then why is it called their prime. I always thought that when someone is in his prime means that he's at his best. He'll never surpass that.
Anyway, I strongly believe that 3rd in his prime > 4th>the rest of hokages.

[MemnochTheCaT]

'Prime' is usually referring to someone's 20s to their 40s, and as for knowing whether the 4th or 3rd were stronger, we will probably never know.

Personally, I'm leaning towards believing that the 3rd knew a broader range of jutsu, and had more raw intellect, while the 4th seemed like more of a pure combat-oriented warrior, with greater chakra and more devastating abilities (rasengan, gamabunta summoning, etc). Remember when the 3rd was holding Oro while waiting for the sealing to take place? Imagine if could have just put his palm on his forehead and blasted a rasengan through his brain .. that's the kind of power the 4th would have in that situation. Granted, the 3rd would clearly have also dominated Oro if he were a tad younger.

[originalkrn]

Didn't Sarutobi say something in a flashback about how Orochimaru would have been the more suitable Hokage 4th? Orochimaru wasn't chosen because Sarutobi didn't believe in his ways. So, if the successor is based on power, then Orochimaru would have been stronger than the 4th. Also, it is quoted that Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru ( but it was quoted by him, so we don't know if its really true or if its because Oro just thinks that Itachi has a greater knowledge of jitsus and is therefore stronger than him) , and finally if :
1. Oro > 4th
2. Itachi > Oro
3. Itachi > 4th

However, the 4th could still be stronger than Itachi, but weaker than Oro cause certain techiniques work better on some people than others.

[MemnochTheCaT]

I think what the 3rd was speaking of in terms of Oro > 4th was referring to Oro's intellect and ability to analyze and learn jutsu. When it comes to physical combat, Oro appears quite weak, as evidenced by his awful performance against a VERY aged 3rd.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: originalkrn
Didn't Sarutobi say something in a flashback about how Orochimaru would have been the more suitable Hokage 4th? Orochimaru wasn't chosen because Sarutobi didn't believe in his ways. So, if the successor is based on power, then Orochimaru would have been stronger than the 4th. Also, it is quoted that Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru ( but it was quoted by him, so we don't know if its really true or if its because Oro just thinks that Itachi has a greater knowledge of jitsus and is therefore stronger than him) , and finally if :
1. Oro > 4th
2. Itachi > Oro
3. Itachi > 4th

However, the 4th could still be stronger than Itachi, but weaker than Oro cause certain techiniques work better on some people than others.


No, he simply stated that he wanted his student, disciple, to follow in his foot steps. He wanted Oro to become the next hokage. But because of Oro's evil ways, the third knew that it would never happen. If you can remember that, then you can also remember the discussion between the third and Ankho about if the fourth was still alive, Orochimaru wouldn't even be a problem. It's an insult to the fourth to be thought as weaker than Oro. What were you thinking?

Oro is weak enough to rely on the strengths of the previous hokages in order to defeat the third, but strong enough to leave Akatsuki without any repercussion.

[Hotsuma]

Neither of them win. The only people who win are the dumbasses who actually put forth an argument without any real knowledge on anybody.

As Raven said. It's fucking POINTLESS to have a discussion when we haven't even seen what kind of shit either of them could do.

But, as for now. Itachi wins. Because the 4th is dead. Itachi is still, very much alive. Don't overanalyze this, people, and face the facts.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Originally posted by: Hotsuma
Neither of them win. The only people who win are the dumbasses who actually put forth an argument without any real knowledge on anybody.

As Raven said. It's fucking POINTLESS to have a discussion when we haven't even seen what kind of shit either of them could do.

But, as for now. Itachi wins. Because the 4th is dead. Itachi is still, very much alive. Don't overanalyze this, people, and face the facts.

It's interesting to see that the majority of the people in this forum has some creative skills. It takes creativity to form a hypothesis on what little information was available. It takes talent to draw a conclusion from that information into a coherent premise.

What is funny though, is people who belligerently call people names out of sheer ignorance.

1. This is a manga.
2. There are no facts. The authors will always introduce something to break the "fact" that you so heartily put your faith in.
3. Everything is sheer speculation.

If you don't like the importance of discussion or social interaction then you don't really need to participate. I'm a firm believer in the saying "there is no such thing as a stupid question," or "if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all."

[MemnochTheCaT]

100% in agreement, Hiten!

[Raven]

Originally posted by: hiten mitsurugi
People say that the 4th was in his mid 30's.
People? What people? I always thought that the 4th was about Kakashi's age or even younger, my estimate would be about 23 or so. But we have no way of knowing this, there's no record (in real life) of his age or birthdate. I still think it's plausible for the 3rd to be at the retiring age and to be selecting a new hokage candidate.

[Moriarte]

The 3rd probably wanted to name a successor a few years before he retired too; go out on top as it were. Plus, as far as ninjas go, a leader needs to be at his/her physical peak as well.
And the 4th was probably in his late 20's early 30's.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

I think that the 4th would throw down.

[Superman]

I think the 4th was not exceptionally powerfull (compared to other hokages). The reason it was him who defeated the monster fox was because he was the hokage at the time and it was his responsibility. Who ever went up against the kyubi was going to die for sure, and as he was the current hokage, he was the one that had to do it.

The 3rd said that he wanted Orochimaru to become the 4th, but he couldn't choose him. Orochimaru was the strongest but he was just so evil. He doesn't understand the point of being Hokage. Sarutobi chose the 4th because he loved the village (and was still a big time ass beater).

Now, to the topic...

Orochimaru says in the manga quite explicitly that Itach is stronger than he is.

If Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru, and Orochimaru is stronger than the 4th...

I think Itachi would beat the 4th's ass - then the 4th would seal him with his soul seal technique.
They would both die.

[Anbu Hatake Kakashi]

4th wins.. no questions about it... and i heard that 4th is the strongest hokage.... i dunno where i heard it form but yea.. and who ever voted for itachi............................................ .................................................. .................................. LMAO