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The Troublesome One
Fri, 04-02-2004, 06:59 PM
Go fourth and enjoy!

L8r
Fri, 04-02-2004, 07:04 PM
pretty nice chp
that bone guy( i really suck whit names i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif ) really cool in this one
cant w8 for the translated version

DeluxSkillz
Fri, 04-02-2004, 07:10 PM
this chapter is OFF THE HOOK!!!!!

OMG can't sit still Rock vs Kimi kicks ass

Vicious
Fri, 04-02-2004, 07:10 PM
sweet mother of pearl what an ep.

i want to learn Druken Boxing.... i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

Neji-Aniki-sama
Fri, 04-02-2004, 07:13 PM
Two comments:
1. Kiba definitly should lose that jacked of his, well, so does Hinata, but that's beside the point. He looks sooo much better without it...
2. Freaking level two.

hornetmike
Fri, 04-02-2004, 07:35 PM
Man, that was an awesome chapter. After so long, the manga is finally starting to get interesting again. Also, Rock Lee is the man. some sweet moves he's got there. But kimi doesn't seem all that worried yet. just surprised. Things are finally picking up.

Hatake Kakashi
Fri, 04-02-2004, 07:44 PM
Yeah very good chapter. Lee shows Kimimaro how unpredictable and powerful Drunken Boxing really is.

Oh and I hate how the chapter was entitled traitor, and we didn't even get to see Sasuke.

I still think Lee will beat Kimimaro. If Kimimaro takes out his bones like that, then he has no protection from Lee's blows. A well placed punch and Kimi is toast.

Also I think that Sakura, Ino, Hinata, and Tenten are going to show up and save the day. They kept showing the girls on the covers after all.

Neji-Aniki-sama
Fri, 04-02-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by: Hatake Kakashi

Also I think that Sakura, Ino, Hinata, and Tenten are going to show up and save the day. They kept showing the girls on the covers after all.

Sakura saving the day? Don't push it... She just *looks* like a Powerpuffgirl...
As for Hinata, Tenten and Ino...yeah, I hope they show up. I still think Hinata would be a good medic ninja. She can see chakra and touching the points can kill, but also heal...And she can use her chakra when she needs. Would be cool if she went there, and took care of Neji and they'd become friends and lived happily ever after... but I digress.
I'd say Naruto, Shikamaru, Hinata in a chunnin team. Still the fourth is hard to figure. Neji may not get along with Hinata... Rocky Lee, Chouji, Kiba... hard choice for the fourth man...I will go with Rocky cuz everybody likes him i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif

Xceleration
Fri, 04-02-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by: Neji-Aniki-sama
2. Freaking level two.

Kimimaro's bones doesn't have anything to do with the seal, it's his bloodline limit. The raws in chinese, so I can understand it.

Neji-Aniki-sama
Fri, 04-02-2004, 08:14 PM
Looked like level two...anyhow, if you say otherwise...I will trust you.

DeluxSkillz
Fri, 04-02-2004, 08:20 PM
probably activated his seal to pump out those bones

Hatake Kakashi
Fri, 04-02-2004, 09:11 PM
I think with all 3 Curse Seals they turn into demon like people at Level 2. The Sound 4's seal causes themt o turn into demons and from what we have seen of Sasuke, he looks like a demon too, but not so bad. I think once Kimimaro goes Level 2, Lee is gonna have to step up his game and start unlocking some gates i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif

Mut
Fri, 04-02-2004, 09:36 PM
i almost puked when i saw kimimaro's abilities, it was disgusting as fuck. but still great chapter.

EDIT: if he does have "level's" then that was not level two.

Death BOO Z
Fri, 04-02-2004, 09:41 PM
wow. first time of me getting a raw, i even had to restiger on Narutofan for it...
my immpressions?
Lee is still cool, even though he's drunk and shouldn't have been thier, however, i get the feeling that Kishimoto really tries to make Naruto's fights look bad...
Kimimaru finally shows how his bone bloodline should be used, the picture in page 16 is the SHIT!
other than that, i'm angry that kiba is alive, but there's still hope, i don't think they've centered on the water drops for nothing, Sakon might still come and whipe Dogboy off the face of earth...

oh, can one of the chinese\japanese speaking guys provide a basic transelation to what's going on? even though it's not a text heavy chapter, it'll still be nice.


and Last thing, let's all join in prayers that Sakon is behind Kiba in the water, using Ukon eyes as a periscope (won't that be cool? a rotating eye that searches around from inside the water), and that they'll come and finish thier job of killing Kiba, and by that redeem themselves from sharing the same fate as Kimi seems to be having..

Hayate
Fri, 04-02-2004, 09:47 PM
ok, Kimimaro's ability is just freaky.

anyways, i dont see what Orochimaru meant about Kimimaro having a better bloodline that Sasuke, the bone thing isnt all that

Raven
Fri, 04-02-2004, 10:00 PM
That was so good..... the bone thing made me cheer out loud, especially page 16. And the ribs!! Sweeeet. Looks so cool. Lee's gonna chop his hands up a bit fighting from now on.

Mut
Fri, 04-02-2004, 10:08 PM
ok, i got one scene translated by this guy:

http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~s_kim/images/rocked.jpg

UH OH! =O

Assertn
Fri, 04-02-2004, 10:23 PM
hahaha....niiiice

yeah....this chapter was called traitor
without the translations, its hard to tell, but what actually happened was lee asked to join the sound village, and kimimaro said you have to pass the initiation test, so they duked it out for a bit.....hence, lee is in fact, the traitor

lionheart1012000
Fri, 04-02-2004, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
hahaha....niiiice

yeah....this chapter was called traitor
without the translations, its hard to tell, but what actually happened was lee asked to join the sound village, and kimimaro said you have to pass the initiation test, so they duked it out for a bit.....hence, lee is in fact, the traitor

you serious? omg...lee....why!!!!!!!!!!!! oh well.

Neji-Aniki-sama
Fri, 04-02-2004, 10:47 PM
WTF, Lee?????? He's going to leave Gai-sensei????? Impossible!!!!
I wonder if it was a trick, like Shikamaru's...or he is drunk...
What a disappointment if it's true.
Anyhow...such a kawai bishie, such a gross jutsu...

Vagabond
Fri, 04-02-2004, 11:28 PM
Cool chapter.

And about lee. He's probably joking/being sarcastic. I really can't imagine lee as a bad guy.
The raw is really good quality so I wonder if inane will have a speedy release.

Lys
Fri, 04-02-2004, 11:30 PM
What what what?? Why would Lee join Sound? He doesn't/hardly even says anything in the chapter (not that I can read it, but there were seriously like NO speech bubbles at all). Are you crazy or something?

Kimi creeped me out. That was awesome. And Kiba without the jacket was randomly cool!! And Leeeeeeee~! Sooo wonderful!! ... Okay, 'nuf fangirling from me. Good chapter.

Assertn
Fri, 04-02-2004, 11:43 PM
im sorry guys....i better stop joking around before i hurt somebody......i didnt think i'd be so convincing i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

actually i was just mocking the title "traitor", because it seems like they pretty much lie about the following week's title EVERY timei/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

rockmanj
Fri, 04-02-2004, 11:55 PM
that bone justsu is just creepy...kinda like wolverine but much more grosser...also i wonder does kimi have a healing power of some soert; i mean if his bloodline limit entails popping his bones out an shit, then he must be ablse to heal himself back or somethin

makkura
Fri, 04-02-2004, 11:56 PM
every week they lie about next week chapter so i don't even care what the title is anymore.

Lys
Sat, 04-03-2004, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
im sorry guys....i better stop joking around before i hurt somebody......i didnt think i'd be so convincing i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

actually i was just mocking the title "traitor", because it seems like they pretty much lie about the following week's title EVERY timei/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Hahahaaaa, it's true ... I figured this wasn't serious but it still made me wonder (the day after April Fool's is a scary time, with people doing stuff like this). Nice job!

Neji-Aniki-sama
Sat, 04-03-2004, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
im sorry guys....i better stop joking around before i hurt somebody......i didnt think i'd be so convincing i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

actually i was just mocking the title "traitor", because it seems like they pretty much lie about the following week's title EVERY timei/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif

Well, let's say it's the April fool's *season*... yours was even better than the Live Evil onei/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Assertn
Sat, 04-03-2004, 12:49 AM
haha thanks.....i prolly woulda done it regardless of it being april fools day though i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

i still wonder though.......why did oro prefer kimimaro over sasuke? the ability to manipulate bones is cool and all, but it wont really bring him a whole lot closer to his goal of learning all the world's jutsus

Gods_Son
Sat, 04-03-2004, 12:53 AM
Maybe he had more than just the bones, and because he likes Kimi's attitude.

Mut
Sat, 04-03-2004, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
haha thanks.....i prolly woulda done it regardless of it being april fools day though i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

i still wonder though.......why did oro prefer kimimaro over sasuke? the ability to manipulate bones is cool and all, but it wont really bring him a whole lot closer to his goal of learning all the world's jutsus

maybe he was born with the knowledge of all jutsus.

...

Neji-Aniki-sama
Sat, 04-03-2004, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
haha thanks.....i prolly woulda done it regardless of it being april fools day though i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

i still wonder though.......why did oro prefer kimimaro over sasuke? the ability to manipulate bones is cool and all, but it wont really bring him a whole lot closer to his goal of learning all the world's jutsus

Cause Kimi is prettier... end of argument i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
Oh, and classier.

XwingRob
Sat, 04-03-2004, 02:29 AM
Wow...I can't wait until the anime catches up to this part. The animation will be freakin awesome.
Anyways...it appears Lee isn't saying anything really.
Also...why doesn't Inane use this RAW? Its pretty high quality.(Unless its in a different language...then I understand)

xtort
Sat, 04-03-2004, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by: Neji-Aniki-sama


Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
haha thanks.....i prolly woulda done it regardless of it being april fools day though i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

i still wonder though.......why did oro prefer kimimaro over sasuke? the ability to manipulate bones is cool and all, but it wont really bring him a whole lot closer to his goal of learning all the world's jutsus

Cause Kimi is prettier... end of argument i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
Oh, and classier.

Hehe, Orochimaru does seem a bit effeminate!

Well, on a serious note, it seems to me Orochimaru wanted Kimi's body more because... it's his body that he wanted, not his eyes. Kimimaro's body is able to do cool shit, while Sasuke's is just an above average body. Considering what he knows about Sharingan (i.e. that it comes with the eyes, not the blood), why not take a perfect body, kill Sasuke, and steal his eyes. Then, you have a perfect body w/ full Sharingan (assuming Orochimaru trains Sasuke so that he gets the full double-trio).

(Chapter 201 page 17 for reference.)

-xtortout

itachi_
Sat, 04-03-2004, 06:01 AM
Can someone translate it, the translation is on narutofan.com, and edited them somehow.

sexy_no_jutsu
Sat, 04-03-2004, 06:13 AM
whaha i'm definately gonna like this once it gets animatedi/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif just saw the film "drunken master" last night and it showed how cool drunken boxing looks like. dl it if you want, its on suprnova.org

jonny-mt
Sat, 04-03-2004, 06:45 AM
Um, did I get a bum copy or something, because mine is most decidedly in Chinese....

*double-checks a different mirror*

Nope; good old Chinese. I was wondering how they got it out so fast; I went looking for it this morning, and the guy at a Lawson's said the new one doesn't come out until Monday, but considering Taylor's got a translation of the Japanese up, it looks like my loyal register jockey didn't know what he was talking about.

Anyways, read along with Taylor's and it was really pretty nifty, but there wasn't very much surprising going on here. Lee was a lot of fun to watch, but we already knew that Kimimaro's power is bones. Glad to see they checked in on Kiba, of course; looks like it's going to get more interesting from here, at least!

Assertn
Sat, 04-03-2004, 01:37 PM
i wonder if oro can steal bloodlines and keep them when he switches to a new body.....if so, then i could see why he'd want to take kimimaro's
but otherwise the bone ability would only last for a limited amount of time before the body gets all old and shrivelly

perhaps if he CAN keep bloodlines, then maybe kimimaro is the last of his kind or something, and so he wanted to take the bloodline before it was lost forever......

Neji-Aniki-sama
Sat, 04-03-2004, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by: jonny-mt
Glad to see they checked in on Kiba, of course; looks like it's going to get more interesting from here, at least!

Why don't they check on Neji and Chouji!!!!! I don't like Neji, but I don't want him to die!!!! i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif
May have to do with a rescue mission, just don't send Sakura, she doesn't even carry medicine with her...

makkura
Sat, 04-03-2004, 02:41 PM
inane's 211 is out

itachi_
Sat, 04-03-2004, 02:45 PM
WTF!! it was all an april-joke, could've assumed that!. Source: inane.mangareaders.com

makkura
Sat, 04-03-2004, 02:49 PM
must've been an april's fool joke.

meh ! i'm not complaining.

2 colored page this time around, maybe one day it will be an all colored chapter =)
unlikely.

Mut
Sat, 04-03-2004, 02:55 PM
how awesome, they did 2 colors this time.

i forgot who the does the coloring for the title pages, but you are doing an awesome job. they keep getting better and better. especially the ino one, that one rocked.

EDIT: they still haven't explained how kimimaro's abilities are best suited for orochimaru's goal. i wonder when they'll do that.

itachi_
Sat, 04-03-2004, 02:59 PM
Hmm that bloodline limit that kimmimaro used wasen't a level2 curse right?

Hmm we saw kiba, and it looks like he'll make it

Really niced colored pictures, I wonder who's making them

I hope we'll see sasuke and naruto in the next chapter but the title says something else..

makkura
Sat, 04-03-2004, 03:18 PM
the titles mean nothing, you should know that by now. this chapter was supposed to be traitor.

not much betrayal in it huh ?

Neji-Aniki-sama
Sat, 04-03-2004, 03:26 PM
Ewww that looks even grosser in color!
And, huh, isn't the Gaia seal level 2? I wonder if he needs it to activate the bloodline...

chaos4ever4
Sat, 04-03-2004, 04:12 PM
title is 'unpredictable' according to inane.

kimi's not at level 2 yet, since he's not in a demon form. he most likely unlocked his level 1 seal.

very good chapter, especially with lee avoiding kimi's strikes by a hair, and countering them with simple moves.

i'm surprised that kimi doesn't know about drunken fist, though

Tenkei
Sat, 04-03-2004, 04:50 PM
Did anyone ever say that Kimimaro's bloodline was better suited for Orochimaru in the manga?

Just wondering because a few people seem to have asked about that, and I don't recall that .. I don't think that was ever said. I think the only reason Kimimaro was Orochimaru's choice body is probably because Orochimaru seems more potential in Kimimaro.

Besides even potential, I'm sure that Orochimaru would like Kimimaro better for the fact that Kimi doesn't have an alternate motive. Whereas Sasuke's main motivation is to kill Itachi (this may interfere with Orochimaru controling him and keeping him until he can take his body, somehoew) - Kimimaro's only goal seems to be to serve Orochimaru, so there's no threat there.

At any rate - that was a great chapter. ^^ Can't wait to see how things go in this fight.

Neji-Aniki-sama
Sat, 04-03-2004, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by: Tenkei
Did anyone ever say that Kimimaro's bloodline was better suited for Orochimaru in the manga?



Besides even potential, I'm sure that Orochimaru would like Kimimaro better for the fact that Kimi doesn't have an alternate motive. Whereas Sasuke's main motivation is to kill Itachi (this may interfere with Orochimaru controling him and keeping him until he can take his body, somehoew) - Kimimaro's only goal seems to be to serve Orochimaru, so there's no threat there.




Kimimaru
Pretty
Way classy
Loyal
Polite
Faces his probs
Does as he is told
Cares for Oro
Brave
Says significant stuff
Self-assured

Sasuke
Way less pretty than Kimi*
No class at all
Rude
Has no loyalty whatsoever
Didn't make up his mind about good and evil, yet. he ain't good, but ain't evil
Runs away from his prob
Does as he wishes
Couldn't care less about his village and friends
Wimpy
Whines
Arrogant

Orochi-dono may be evil, but he ain't stupid.
That's an obvious choice.

*when they meet, Saska will get jealous and go...I am *the* bishie of this show.

Mut
Sat, 04-03-2004, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by: Tenkei
Did anyone ever say that Kimimaro's bloodline was better suited for Orochimaru in the manga?


well, not exactly in the words "best suited for orochimaru's goal." but kabuto said that he was an heir to a ninja clan that possessed the most perfect and most powerful bodies of all, and inherited all their abilities. also, orochimaru said that he was the body he desired for most. i'm only assuming that all of that means kimimaro's body is best suited for orochimaru's goal which is to learn all jutsus.

Mgslee
Sat, 04-03-2004, 07:48 PM
Its good to know that the Inane post was a joke but the time stamp was April 2nd...

thats cheating dont you think?

abomb
Sat, 04-03-2004, 08:53 PM
wut do you guys think? is there a drunken ura renge coming?

Assertn
Sat, 04-03-2004, 10:13 PM
way back when orochimaru's plot was discovered by the 3rd and he ran away, he said his goal was to get all the world's jutsus......and thats why i question why his first choice wouldve been kimimaro over sasuke

that was a stupid april fool's joke......its not really funny if EVERYONE tries to pull some sort of prank....and if i'd known they would release one this weekend, i might not have gone and ruined the surprises by looking through the raw

Insomniac
Sat, 04-03-2004, 10:56 PM
good chapter, i wonder if the anime will ever animate Kimimaro considering his abilities and how wimpy the anime is with blood.

sangai
Sat, 04-03-2004, 11:30 PM
theres blood i dunno how they will animate bones being ripped from his skin i don't think that will animated

Raven
Sat, 04-03-2004, 11:52 PM
Maybe it won't be in Golden Time when it comes round to it so they'll show blood again. Let's hope so.

Or, maybe the anime will be over by then. i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif


On a different note, I'd like to see the same voice actor do Kimimaro that did Dr. Jackal from Getbackers. The voice would suit so well!

Power PMV
Sat, 04-03-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by: Insomniac
good chapter, i wonder if the anime will ever animate Kimimaro considering his abilities and how wimpy the anime is with blood.

maybe they will take all the blood away and make it all Wolverine-like which would be gay. But you never know.

XwingRob
Sun, 04-04-2004, 01:12 AM
Haha...good one Inane....NOT. i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif

Neji-Aniki-sama
Sun, 04-04-2004, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by: sangai sakusei
theres blood i dunno how they will animate bones being ripped from his skin i don't think that will animated

They may do what they did to Neji, changed the swastika into an X.
There's a Buddhist temple close to were I live, and they put two swastikas in the gates, and people were making a big deal out of it, saying they were *offensive*...sheesh. Hopefully, the monks just told them to get *another* life.
Anyway,compare the sexy-no-jutsu in the anime and in the manga... the one in the manga has way more smoke around... They may just don't put blood or ripped flesh on the bones and don't make a close up of that...
Also, in the manga, when Ebisu adjusts his glasses, he uses his middle finger, in a very suggestive manner. Same doesn't happen in the anime...

Stoopider
Sun, 04-04-2004, 04:48 AM
I thought Oro Wanted Sasuke primarily for his Sharingan?? if he has Sasuke's Sharingan, he can learn 'all' the jutsu's in the world just by seeing it being done.

rather than Kimmimaro. Who would be a perfect body. But I think oro wanted Kimi's body because at that time he was dying because of the sealing jutsu. Or he wanted Kimimaro 'NOW' and Sasuke 'Later'.

Noonan
Sun, 04-04-2004, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by: Power PMV


Originally posted by: Insomniac
good chapter, i wonder if the anime will ever animate Kimimaro considering his abilities and how wimpy the anime is with blood.

maybe they will take all the blood away and make it all Wolverine-like which would be gay. But you never know.

Instead of bones - he will shoot forth bars of YUMMY CHOCOLATE!

actually Kimimaro's flesh opens up but doesn't seem to bleed - they will probably just go with a odd coloring scheme.

Zuttasoxx
Sun, 04-04-2004, 08:35 AM
KIMI is gonna betray the sound I think i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif

Kurapica
Sun, 04-04-2004, 09:51 AM
Damn, this was a cool release. I kinda like that kimmimaro. He's not that bad a guy.

Nine Tailed Demon
Sun, 04-04-2004, 09:58 AM
Naruto Sasuke Rock Lee on the same team would be good. Just wanted to point that out. Even though I dislike Rock Lee and he's basically lost all his matches, atleast he starts with a bang....

Nine Tailed Demon
Sun, 04-04-2004, 10:07 AM
I liked that two pages were colored...

xtort
Sun, 04-04-2004, 11:10 AM
Orochimaru said something like "I still think Kimimaro's body is the one I wanted more."

People have questioned why his body would be better than Sasuke's. Sasuke has nothing more than a good body for a nin, while Kimi's body is perfect for one. That's not the same as having Sharingan, which we know is "portable" as long as you don't mind killing someone and taking their eyes. We also know that Orochimaru doesn't have qualms w/ either of those. (Eyes just taste better, right?)

Kimi's level two is going to be sick.

-xtortout

Assertn
Sun, 04-04-2004, 01:48 PM
why do you say sasuke's is good while kimi's is perfect? Even kabuto questioned which of the 2 of them is stronger, and I dont think it even matters a whole lot once orochimaru takes over, since the body pretty much takes on a form of his own anyway

Mut
Sun, 04-04-2004, 02:45 PM
do people not realize that kimimaro hasn't shown us why he is best suited for orochimaru's goal of learning all jutsus?

Assertn
Sun, 04-04-2004, 03:34 PM
what makes you think he hasnt? are you implying that he has 2 advanced bloodlimits?

Gods_Son
Sun, 04-04-2004, 03:37 PM
who cares, we'll probably see the full extent of his skills soon anyways

Mut
Sun, 04-04-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
what makes you think he hasnt? are you implying that he has 2 advanced bloodlimits?

no, i'm not implying anything that we haven't seen yet except that kimimaro's ability of morphic bones have no irrelevance to orochimaru being able to learn all jutsus. maybe i just can't think of a way how kimimaro's bloodline is best suited.

Assertn
Sun, 04-04-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by: KonohamaruCorps
who cares, we'll probably see the full extent of his skills soon anyways

whats the point of posting just to say "who cares?"
obviously people care if there is a discussion about it

i wonder if orochimaru picked up anything from that little girl that he took over previously

Death BOO Z
Mon, 04-05-2004, 07:30 AM
Yo guys, last night i was bored so i made a joke chapter out of 211, does anyone know where can i upload zip files? or should i use Mediahalop and upload each page seperatly?

Raven
Mon, 04-05-2004, 07:42 AM
Upload zip files at 1asphost.com, but it will automatically unzip the files for you, so the pics will be loose. You could always PM LCD and get him to host, but he hasn't been around in ages.

Tenkei
Mon, 04-05-2004, 10:23 AM
If you send the zip file to me ( Tenkei@april-showers.com ), I'll upload it to my domain for you~

Uzumaki Naruto
Wed, 04-07-2004, 11:35 PM
WTF is up with kimimaros body that some freaky ass shit, bones poppin out of everywhere and lee just got his ass poked in the face with kimimaros ribs, thats even more freaky the bugs comming out of u like shino, and man lee is going to kik kimimaros ass and wipe the floor with him, by one of the best chapters ive read so far cant wait to c it in motion

Assertn
Wed, 04-07-2004, 11:38 PM
ass poked in the face? are you implying ugly or are you implying that the ultimate taijutsu supreme technque was used but from the wrong end?