Summoning no jutsu!

[Assertn]

ive noticed that, and i have no idea why they did that.....but then again, i also thought that a tattoo or some sort of marking/text was needed in combination with the blood offering for the summon. Like how orochimaru used the tattoo, kakashi used the scroll, and jiraiya had a marking on his palm too

[The_Fourth]

I agreee with Itachi, its preety reasonable.

[lionheart1012000]

well here goes the opinion of a fool who knows nothing...
my guess is that for the summoning no jutsu to be completed there has to be some sort of resistance at the end of the hand or something, ie: 3rd touching the tree, kakashi touching the ground, and well...naruto got resistance from the air itself since he was falling down pretty fast...thats how i see it, might be wrong.

[PSJ]

thats sounds pretty good to me. but it can also have something to do with kyubi chakra. nobody knows since it hasnt been explained. but my guess is that it is done to do the series more intresting, i mean whats the fun in seeing hokage just bite his tumb and then Enma appears. its more fun to see him struggle to do it.

[Assertn]

i'd say naruto's excuse is that he just had SO much power that it was possible.....
now how did jiraiya EXPECT him to perform a summon without touching a surface im not sure......

[NoKKiE]

I think the touching the ground for a stable place to pop out is more reasonable, just imho though

[Mut]

let me end the confusion quickly.

---> it doesn't matter. <---

there.

[boomorman]

no clue... Maybe since Kakashi and Hokage don't have as much Chakra as the kyubi they need to pull it out of other objects??? Perhaps kakashi drew some chakra out of the enemies back for the summon and hokage pulled some out of the tree??? Not everyone has unlimted chakra like the nine tails... just a thought.

[PSJ]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dazzz @ Feb 21 2004, 09:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> let me end the confusion quickly.

---&#62; it doesn&#39;t matter. &lt;---

there. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
so you are kishimoto&#39;s personal assitant or something? you dont know we dont know nobody knows exept kishimoto himself.

[Junichiro]

ok, i see whats going on, i think. so if those guys needed to tuck the ground and when naruto summend the tadpoles a sign came out where the seal is.

i think it depends on where it is happening, like the monkey would have just fallen to the ground from way up there otherwise, and the dog is too small to take a fall from K&#39;s shoulders

[loser_nin]

It probably does depend on the situation. Since there was no ground for Naruto to touch when he was falling to his death, you couldn&#39;t really say that to summon something you had to touch the ground.

But I don&#39;t think that the dog or Emna would have gotten hurt if summond from a slightly taller height. Emna, being a monkey, could have easily gripped on to something on the way down. Same thing for the dog (I forgot his name...XD). He could have bitten on to something. Like when he was summoned when Kakashi was going to use Chidori on Zabzura.

[kage_bunshin]

Hey did you guys realise this?

In episode 71 the third hokage HAD to touch the tree in order to do his summoning no jutsu.

Remember in ep 56 naruto summoned gamabunta while falling from the cliff, and in ep 69 ororchimaru just clapped his hands as his last move to summon the past hokages, and again in ep 69 kakashi summoned pakkun by touching the ground.

Personally i was thinking the dog summoning by kakashi, frog summoning by naruto, and the monkey summoning by the third hokage was pretty much the same jutsu(maybe some different seals depending on the animal) coz they have to use some of their own blood to summon the animal. Naruto managed to summon gamabunta without touching the ground. But the third Hokage had to summon by &#39;touching&#39; the tree. I find this summoning very inconsistent.

Well what do you guys think?

[itsgalf]

maybe because kyubi chakra enhanced the summoning jutsu and he was able to summon the frog without touching the ground. Or mabe Gamabunta needs to be summoned from up there or something, because if he gets summoned, he&#39;ll fill up the space where the summoner is and he would squish him.

[Mut]

you guys are thinking waaay to deeply into some stuff. just take it as it is.

it doesn&#39;t matter where one summons. he/she can do it in the air, in the water, in the fire, in dirt, in your face, etc.

[TeLeKiNeSiS]

its probably just better to see him stretching his arm struggling to summon...creates suspense. mmm if not then its just that things like pakkun and enma are small and need somewhere to land, as compared to gamabunta which is so big

[Uchiha-Itachi]

You pulled of a Einstein&#39;er with that question, kage-bunshin..

Well since a tree, rock, ground or whatever consists out of moleculs, same goes for air so as in he IS touching something (air) to summon the gamabunta..

Make&#39;s you wonder why hokage wanted to touch the damn tree for his summoning-jutsu..?

well maybe he felt like touching the tree or something? i dont give a rats ass abou that http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Nara Shikamaru]

third hokage didn&#39;t want the monkey king to fall.... now that i think about it pakkun falling to the ground would be funneh XP

[loser_nin]

Come on, dazzz, thinking is good for you&#33; http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Madox]

Yeah it&#39;s pretty obviouse IMO, Kakashi and the 3rd just wanted somthing stable for there summon to be on when they were created, so they didnt fall or trip or anything. Naruto had to summon his in mid-air beucase he had no choice, and Oro had a huge snake so it did&#39;nt really matter where he summoned it.

Also Gambunta and the Snake were huge compared to the monkey and dog, so it did&#39;nt really matter where the Snake and frog were summoned.

[Assertn]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dazzz @ Feb 21 2004, 08:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> you guys are thinking waaay to deeply into some stuff. just take it as it is.

it doesn&#39;t matter where one summons. he/she can do it in the air, in the water, in the fire, in dirt, in your face, etc. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
people like to use replies like that alot in this forum......
if only they knew that the purpose of a discussion thread is to discuss......

[Someonemanr]

I noticed this myself and here&#39;s the explanation I came up with. I think the touching, either of the ground or the tree or the person&#39;s back(why couldn&#39;t Kakashi use the ground? ;0) ), is used for control purposes, when Naruto summoned Gamabunta he wasn&#39;t trying to summon Gamabunta specifically he was merely using the summon technique, remember Jiraiya was surprised when Naruto summoned him? This also was due to the enormous Kyuubi chakra Naruto used, but I think using a stable surface might be a way to control which summon comes out, ie. using the persons back for Kakashi to summon the small dog Pakkun. That&#39;s my idea, the other ones work too though, *shrugs*.

[RoMuLuu]

In my opinion Hokage didn&#39;t have to touch the three to summon the monkey. The hand gesture is just used to show where the animal (or any creature summoned, in this case it would be monkey) should be summoned. There is information about this in Narutoguide. You can check it in http://narutoguide.narutofan.com/chakra_seals.htm ('http://narutoguide.narutofan.com/chakra_seals.htm') Take a look at the &quot;Other Hand Gestures&quot;. There it says: &quot;This hand gesture is used at the end of a Summoning Seal, to indicate where the animals should appear.&quot; So if the summoner wan&#39;t to summon the creature in the air like Naruto, then thay just simply touch nothing (or ok, touch air). And of course the third wanted to summon the monkey on the trhee, not next to it. Because he didn&#39;t want the monkey to fall down as you maybe already realized.

[Kiba'N'Akamaru]

But Isn&#39;t Kakashi&#39;s element earth? So isn&#39;t that why he has to touch the earth, If you remember, those dogs originally come from the ground to grab Zabuza. so maybe that has something to do with it.

[Assertn]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kiba&#39;N&#39;Akamaru @ Feb 22 2004, 05:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> But Isn&#39;t Kakashi&#39;s element earth? So isn&#39;t that why he has to touch the earth, If you remember, those dogs originally come from the ground to grab Zabuza. so maybe that has something to do with it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
kakashi&#39;s element is earth? if anything i would say lightning, since his ONLY original technique is the lightning edge. If you consider all the other jutsus he can use, then he can do both earth and water types...as well as countless others.

Having the dogs come out from underground was probably done as an ambush tactic...what i wonder about is why attacking kakashi&#39;s scroll was the weakness to defeating the dog summons when most summons arent even done through scrolls.

[Shinji Ikari]

You haven&#39;t thought about the possibility that the summoners just want to be nice and give the summons some ground to stand on?

That might be the reason.

[Assertn]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Shinji Ikari @ Feb 22 2004, 05:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You haven&#39;t thought about the possibility that the summoners just want to be nice and give the summons some ground to stand on?

That might be the reason. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
maybe thats why gama bunta was totally pissed when naruto summoned him http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kimunist]

ninjas dont have assigned elements...

this isnt like some rpg where they have to...

for instance, just because kakashi is a leaf genin he *technically* should only be using fire ninpo, but he doesnt...

that goes for the hokages...if they were certain elements, they would soley be focusing on that element, while the 3rd hokage used earth, fire, and summoning jutsus and kage bunshins...

and this whole summoning thing...i dont know, its gone too deep to the point where i cannot add anything to say.

[Mut]

some things don&#39;t need any discussion whatsoever. it&#39;s just common sense and logical. one can summon anything anywhere as long as it&#39;s summoned at an area (ground, air, etc) that&#39;s the most suitable, efficient, and convinient for the user and the summoning. ie: naruto had to summon the gamabunta in mid air cuz there was no way he was gonna do it when he hits the ground and no way he&#39;s gonna do it on the walls of the cliff cuz he&#39;d keep falling and gamabunta would&#39;ve been summoned on top of him. so, naruto had to summon it in the area below him, which was air. for kakashi, he had to summon the dogs on/under the ground cuz that&#39;s what they are for. to trap the opponent through an elemen of surprise by coming out of the ground (where he&#39;d least expect it from). IT&#39;S THAT SIMPLE.

EDIT: from what kishimoto has shown us, i think all summons are done through scrolls. the scrolls may not necessarily be needed to during the summoning process, but it&#39;s needed to sign a contract with the summons before they can summon.

[Kiba'N'Akamaru]

Its not that Kakashi can only use Earth element no jutsus, its that the specific dog-nin justsu is elemental earth. Here is the info on the one that Kakashi uses on Zabuza when he first sunmmons the Dogs...

Doton: Tsuiga no Jutsu (Earth Type: Earth Tracking Fang Technique)

Doton (earth type) Ninjutsu technique designed to incorporate the Kuchiyose no Jutsu (Summoning Technique) into a fast-paced tracking technique aiming to find, surprise, and incapacitate the enemy. The summoning ninja must have signed a contract with summoning dogs to perform this attack. They must then perform the Kuchiyose no Jutsu and summon said dogs, who will then burrow underground and track down their target, digging their teeth into them and weighing them down. This leaves the victim wide open to attack.

[Assertn]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dazzz &#064; Feb 22 2004, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>some things don&#39;t need any discussion whatsoever. it&#39;s just common sense and logical. one can summon anything anywhere as long as it&#39;s summoned at an area (ground, air, etc) that&#39;s the most suitable, efficient, and convinient for the user and the summoning. ie: naruto had to summon the gamabunta in mid air cuz there was no way he was gonna do it when he hits the ground and no way he&#39;s gonna do it on the walls of the cliff cuz he&#39;d keep falling and gamabunta would&#39;ve been summoned on top of him. so, naruto had to summon it in the area below him, which was air. for kakashi, he had to summon the dogs on/under the ground cuz that&#39;s what they are for. to trap the opponent through an elemen of surprise by coming out of the ground (where he&#39;d least expect it from). IT&#39;S THAT SIMPLE.

EDIT: from what kishimoto has shown us, i think all summons are done through scrolls. the scrolls may not necessarily be needed to during the summoning process, but it&#39;s needed to sign a contract with the summons before they can summon.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
well if people felt the need to ask the question....then you cant just say it goes without saying http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif

First, in every scenario when a summon is performed, some black markings spread across a surface where the summon is supposed to appear. I would assume this holds some sort of significance (perhaps as a portal or something that opens up on the ground). Also, it would have been more convenient for sarutobi to summon enma without having to strain himself to reach for a branch, but yet, he did. So you cant just say that someone can summon things in midair if they feel like it. I&#39;d believe either the fact that its kyubi&#39;s power or that the air is pressing up against naruto because of him freefalling as the excuse for doing it, but these conclusions were derived from discussing.....not just something expected for the general viewing audience to immediately realize. I&#39;m sure its not the series intention to be too complicated by any means, but this is how devoted fans of the series try to better comprehend the things that havent been explicitly explained, and in the process also perhaps discover interesting details that might have otherwise been overlooked.

oh and Kiba &#39;n&#39; Akamaru, I wont argue with ya that kakashi used an earth element jutsu for summoning the dogs at the bridge, but also keep in mind that the way he summoned them was rather abnormal from most summoning methods. It&#39;s our understanding that basic summoning methods don&#39;t require any special element, and it probably didnt require an earth type when he summoned Pakkun on the guy&#39;s back. Maybe he combined summoning with that beheading jutsu thingy he used on sasuke to ambush zabuza. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/happy.gif

[Uchiha-Itachi]

Well i just figured something out also.. Normally you touch the ground cuz you want to have your summon land &quot;softly&quot;&quot;..

Therefore its not needed to touch the ground or whatsoever to summon. You can stand on a cliff do the summon jutsu in mid-air and poof there goes your summon down the cliff http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

Well since naruto had no choice and gamabunta is big enough they got saved http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

.. you get the point, its just a matter of safety and comfort for your summon to do touch the ground http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[boomorman]

... If the king of monkeys can&#39;t take an 8 foot drop to the ground wtf... he shouldn&#39;t be the king nor should he be summoned to fight vs two dead hokages.

[MadMachine]

I think Kakashi had to use the scroll because he had to summon multiple dogs to do a specific purpose not to just come out.

Yeah also I think you can summon anywhere but I think it is better for the summon to be done on the ground because I am sure they would prefer to be summoned on the ground instead off of a cliff.

[Xollence]

Yeah I think as long as there is pressure, you can summon anywhere. By the way was Pakkun one of the dogs that were summoned during the Haku fight?

[Power PMV]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xollence @ Feb 23 2004, 02:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah I think as long as there is pressure, you can summon anywhere. By the way was Pakkun one of the dogs that were summoned during the Haku fight? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I think so, although at the moment he seemed to be the most useless one.

[Krbadass]

I don&#39;t find it as a big deal although it is annoying how they don&#39;t explain it..

[Shinji Ikari]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AssertnFailure @ Feb 22 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Shinji Ikari &#064; Feb 22 2004, 05:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You haven&#39;t thought about the possibility that the summoners just want to be nice and give the summons some ground to stand on?

That might be the reason. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
maybe thats why gama bunta was totally pissed when naruto summoned him http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Well at least Gama bunta complained about the place he was summoned, so who knows http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[Mut]

i&#39;m sure the black markings are significant in their own way, but mainly for visual effects (it looks cool). and kyubi chakra has nothing to do with summoning. it just extra super-strong power, not anything more special than naruto&#39;s crap chakra. and also for, sarutobi&#39;s summoning style, i explained it in the post you quoted.

&quot;one can summon anything anywhere as long as it&#39;s summoned at an area (ground, air, etc) that&#39;s the most suitable, efficient, and convinient for the user and the summoning.&quot;

yeah, it would&#39;ve been more convinient for sarutobi to do just do it in mid air, but i guess that particular summon needs to be summoned on a solid surface.

[HarukoSZ]

I heard it was a cartoon, and it doesnt have to make sense ......

[Assertn]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (HarukoSZ @ Feb 24 2004, 03:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I heard it was a cartoon, and it doesnt have to make sense ...... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
thank you Haruko, your input has contributed significantly to our discussion




baka http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[HarukoSZ]

But im right : (

[jing]

anime doesn&#39;t have to be real, but it HAS to make sense, and with explanations. or else you&#39;d be watching Teletubby, and Naruto is FAR from teletubby.

[jing]

this is what i think:
Since whenever you touch the area to summon the creature, the creature ends up at that spot. As seen with Pakkun, nin-kens, tadpole. I think when Naruto summoned gamabunta, he was concentrating hard enough so that he is actually touching the orange chakra.

as for 3rd hokage, in that episode its said that chakra is the source of nature&#39;s life or something like that, so therefore i think, the 3rd transfered his chakra into the trees, and allowed the monkey king to be summoned else where.

[RockingRocklee]

.......i like the teletubies.....*sniff* *sniff*

[Master_Shikamaru]

I dunno they COULD be the teletubbies...

Naruto could be the Orange one
Sakura could be the Pink one....
Sasuke coule be the gaaayyyy one&#33;

heh heh Sorry, I felt left out of all the gay joke action. I will now reframe from lower forms of comedy and restrict my joke material to jokes relating to hydrochloric acid on the anus.

http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mf_dribble.gif &lt;--- that&#39;s not his toung that&#39;s dripping...

[Power PMV]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Master_Shikamaru @ Feb 27 2004, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Sasuke coule be the gaaayyyy one&#33;
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
wait, are there straight teletubbies?? http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/huh.gif http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/huh.gif

I thought they were all gay.

On topic:

I think what jing said makes sense, maybe it has to do with the positioning of the summoning.

[Assertn]

if you are comparing naruto to lain or flcl, then you might as well compare different genres altogether while you&#39;re at it

in order to establish the rules of the naruto world and to keep things consistent, then yes, it DOES have to make sense. Most series of this type of action genre have battles and scenarios built around the limitations that the creator defines early in the story.

For example: in DBZ, the viewing audience accepts the fact that the stronger characters also have the ability to fly, and they do so rather consistently. However if a character in the naruto world just starts flying around (and im not talking about crazy leaping from rooftops or trees) then people will question it. Simply because kishimoto has established pretty well by now that ninjas can&#39;t defy the laws of gravity.

[Cloud92684]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jing @ Feb 24 2004, 10:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> anime doesn&#39;t have to be real, but it HAS to make sense, and with explanations. or else you&#39;d be watching Teletubby, and Naruto is FAR from teletubby. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
errr Anime has to make sense? Have you seen som of the anime such as Lain or FLCL. They don&#39;t HAVE to make sense. You just have to give it your own explanation or simply ignore it.

[True_strengh]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Uchiha-Itachi @ Feb 21 2004, 09:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You pulled of a Einstein&#39;er with that question, kage-bunshin..

Well since a tree, rock, ground or whatever consists out of moleculs, same goes for air so as in he IS touching something (air) to summon the gamabunta..

Make&#39;s you wonder why hokage wanted to touch the damn tree for his summoning-jutsu..?

well maybe he felt like touching the tree or something? i dont give a rats ass abou that http://forums.gotwoot.net/html/emoticons/tongue.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
i go with your answer http://forums.gotwoot.net/html/emoticons/tongue.gif