Shadow with in Shadow?

[Death BOO Z]

if it's too dark, then he won't be able to see anything, then he won't know where to send his shadow to...

he needs to attach HIS shadow to other shadows, the other shadows just give him a distance boost...

and the darkness of nighttime is shadow, just from the other side of earth (the one facing the sun).

[Assertn]

ino said so herself, that even if there is a small amount of light, then there exists a shadow within a shadow.....

this would suggest to me that at least a small amount of light is necessary for the trick to work.

[TeLeKiNeSiS]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DB_Hunter @ Feb 16 2004, 06:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Just a thought if Shikamaru and Naruto fought would Shika be able to stretch and compress say Naruto&#39;s clones when he uses Kage Bunshin? Since they are shadow clones.... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
hmm...well when shika was fighting temari...she was thinking of sending out a clone..and he wouldnt be able to catch it..

[Hyuga Koji]

She was going to send out a clone for him to waste his jutsu on and then she would waste him with kamaitachi.

It&#39;s a good thing he caught her first.

I think that Shikamaru&#39;s tech will work as long as there is at least enough light for a discernable shadow.

Basically as long as he&#39;s not in absolute darkness (which is pretty damn dark) then his jutsu should be able to work.

[Everon]

Thats what I&#39;m talking about. If Shikamaru uses a flashlight or something, he could use the night to strech his shadow infinitively.

[Everon]

I was thinking about the final matches and how there could be a shadow within a shadow. So does this mean that at night shikamaru is unstopable? Since his shadow uses other shadows to increase length, he could possibly cover entire cities at nighttime. The only thing that would stop him would be his stanima and chakra. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/blink.gif

[DB_Hunter]

Well if the moon was up possibly..... otherwise there would be no shadows jsut darkness.

[Power PMV]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DB_Hunter @ Feb 16 2004, 06:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Just a thought if Shikamaru and Naruto fought would Shika be able to stretch and compress say Naruto&#39;s clones when he uses Kage Bunshin? Since they are shadow clones.... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
lol, and then he will own Hokage and Kazekage too right? After all they are also Shadows. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[TeLeKiNeSiS]

ah well, shadow imitation is only deadly if you know how to use it...if you have no strategies like shikamaru...theres no point in having it except for stopping people...i mean like someone say naruto for example had shadow imitation...he wouldnt know what to do..so it wouldnt be real deadly...

[Nautek]

Yup. But what about the streetlights, I mean they must have some kind of light on the nights candles or lanterns or something http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif

[kage_bunshin]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nautek @ Feb 16 2004, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yup. But what about the streetlights, I mean they must have some kind of light on the nights candles or lanterns or something http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
yeah i agree. If shikamaru was carrying a torch or a light source of some sort, night time will be his turf http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif

[DB_Hunter]

Just a thought if Shikamaru and Naruto fought would Shika be able to stretch and compress say Naruto&#39;s clones when he uses Kage Bunshin? Since they are shadow clones....

[Nara Shikamaru]

after shika takes over a city ohhh let&#39;s say .... SAND, then grab leaf nins and go to kill everyone. Shika wouldn&#39;t feel anything since he only binds them not take over their bodies. therefore his jutsu would be most effective if others are involved

[jing]

if u give naruto kagemane naruto would get creative trust me its naruto.
knowing him, he woulda probably send clones on the enemy after hes captured him. or because he has so much chakra, he could trap the enemy for a long period of time lol
n after his chakra runs out, pull out some kyubi chakra, u can basically prison the person.

[Uzumaki Naruto]

thats intresting... will he be unstopable, just thinl of the thing u can do with that jutsu i mean if u were strong enough u can prolly bind about atalest half of the village if u wanted to

[Grey_wolf]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Uzumaki Naruto &#064; Feb 16 2004, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> thats intresting... will he be unstopable, just thinl of the thing u can do with that jutsu i mean if u were strong enough u can prolly bind about atalest half of the village if u wanted to </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
yeah but then what?
Just couse he can control them dosnt mean his unstopable. The chakra will run out quikly and even if it didnt what can he do more?.. walk? http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[itsgalf]

um this was mentioned somewhere in a distant topic.

Shadow = absence of light?
You don&#39;t need a light source for there to be a shadow...it can all be darkness and it would all be considered a shadow

[Uzumaki Naruto]

i said WILL HE BE UNSTOPABLE i didnt say that he was and anyways he doesnt neccessarly have to harm anyone, i mean he could just be testing out his poweres or something

[PSJ]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DB_Hunter @ Feb 16 2004, 12:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Just a thought if Shikamaru and Naruto fought would Shika be able to stretch and compress say Naruto&#39;s clones when he uses Kage Bunshin? Since they are shadow clones.... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
they are just called shadow clones they arent real shadows..... they are real bodies its naruto who multiplie. shikamaru can only catch the kage bunshins and control them not stretch them....

[jing]

i think he meant stretch the shadow. and in that case you can, since it is a shadow.

[itachi_]

As jing said, i think that it&#39;s required some light not only darkness to make some kind of shadow, dude it&#39;s logical though...

[Uberbaka]

To come to a conclusion we have to look at the nature of the Jutsu itself. What does it actually do?

It stretches -HIS- shadow. If it&#39;s dark, he has no shadow. He can&#39;t shape other shadows than his own. Hence light should be needed.

[The Kyubi Naruto]

Well do you consider the &quot;absence of light&quot; in that hole shikamaru used to be a shadow or just darkness?

I mean that solves everything&#33; I don&#39;t think it&#39;s a shadow. I mean you&#39;d have to consider everything a shadow if you did think otherwise.
But it doesn&#39;t seem he can use just everything to strech his shadow further. That would be totally supreme techicue. Think that shikamaru would stop a whole enemy village and then the rest would go and kill everyone. Too simple and easy, even a minute would be enough to asassinate the most important persons. But he was able to use the shadow made by the walls of the stadium to his advantage, I wonder what would have happened if it was cloudy. Would all the shadows been gone or would everything be shadow? And that leads to that if it doesn&#39;t then the shadow made by clouds is not a shadow after all. If it was then he could own everyone. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..... it would seem that the shadows in the Naruto world don&#39;t play on our rules.

Soooo..... no I don&#39;t think he can just use everything, but still I think that the &quot;absence of light&quot; in the hole is not a shadow, just my preference.

[pat-the-1337]

i saw a couple ppl say somthign like this, but im gonna say it again to clarify a little more.

a shadow is just the absence of light. and darkness is the absence of light, therefore a shadow is darkness. so if it was darkness, and no light, shikamaru would have endless posibilites with his jutsu.

[NoKKiE]

i do&#39;nt know.. but i thought as long as he had a seperate shadow from his surroundings because he controls his own shadow and attaches it to other ones... if everything was a absence of light he would have no shadow of his own i think O_o

[Xollence]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pat-the-1337 @ Feb 17 2004, 01:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> a shadow is just the absence of light. and darkness is the absence of light, therefore a shadow is darkness. so if it was darkness, and no light, shikamaru would have endless posibilites with his jutsu. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Shadow is not just the absence of light. It&#39;s &quot;the rough image cast by an object blocking rays of illumination&quot;. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[Dreamer]

but remember when Naruto Punched Gaara, SHika moved like he was punched. He may not get hit, but if the people who he attachs the clone to get hit or move in a certain way, he&#39;ll move in that direction. Also, he does have a limited amount of voluem of shadow to move with, and there is shadows of others to expand with, but that&#39;s about it. He can&#39;t attack using the Shadow Imitation or anything, it can only trap and stall enemies

[itsgalf]

what? I still don&#39;t understand why darkness wouldn&#39;t be considered a shadow.

Darkness is just the shadow of the earth, since the other side of the earth is blocking the sun&#39;s light.

[Shinji Ikari]

Since shadow is only darkness, it exists everywhere. No matter how you look at it, the light isn&#39;t something that creates &quot;white&quot; places, and that would mean that even in light, there is darkness. And that is common sence... So this jutsu iteslf is nothing to speculate about since it doesn&#39;t work with basic logic.

But then, let us say that the sun is the ultimate source of light, then he could use it everywhere at night-time since the sun has gone down by then.

[boomorman]

In absolute darkness the enemy wouldn’t be casting a shadow...... so the tech would have nothing to bind onto so it wouldn&#39;t work. If shik went late in the evening or early in the morning ya it could be quite powerful…(temari even explained this during their fight) Also as he gets older and gets more chakra he’ll be able to make it go further even in the presence of light, but Gaara or shino would still spank him. He couldn’t stop all of the sand or all the bugs. (guessing on the bugs)there isn

[Assertn]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (itsgalf @ Feb 17 2004, 05:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> what? I still don&#39;t understand why darkness wouldn&#39;t be considered a shadow.

Darkness is just the shadow of the earth, since the other side of the earth is blocking the sun&#39;s light. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
ah yes, but that would be an &quot;attached shadow&quot;.....the kind that shikamaru controls are &quot;cast shadows&quot; (I learned this recently in Field production http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif )

[pavi]

arg. ino said there is always a shadow within a shadow
when its &#39;nighttime&#39;, all thats happening is the earth is emittin a shadow, but everything else still has a shadow within the shadow of the earth
so at night, yes, shika would be invincible.

think about it like this. if shika cant use it at night, then y wouldnt temari (by tactics) try to get into the huge shadow made by the wall? if she did, then shika wouldnt be able to get her &quot;non-existant shadow&quot;. the answer, cause her shadow still exists and he wouldve still caught her

[SirCharlesIII]

i think the point is this: if there were complete pitch darkness he wouldnt be able to do anything as neither he nor andyone else has a shadow.

but

there never is complete pitch and so there are always slight shadows.

[Xollence]

I think he can only use it when there is light. Because if it just pitch black dark, then there is no real shadow, and he wouldn&#39;t be able to see. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[To Young]

Here is my personal thought about shika ability.

Keeping in mind properties of real world shadows, and that Naruto is a fantasy / ninja show.

In regards to shika, I will categorize the shadow in to two groups

Shika’s Chakra Shadow:
Natural Shadow:


Shika’s Chakra Shadow: This is an artificial shadow he makes by molding his charka. That is way he can twist, turn and stretch it. He can make this shadow regardless of amount of light present ( because it is made of charka)

Natural Shadow: Natural shadow is complete or partial absence of light. And it must be opposite side of light source (just like any normal shadow)


Natural shadow has the property of boosting shika’s chakra shadow ( as seen in tamari vs shika). When the parachute’s natural shadow appears, it gives boost to charka shadow and charka shadow takes off and stretches even more.

While it is true that at night time in complete absence of light (natural shadow) will give a big boost to Chakra shadow. Still there is limit to how much chakra Shika has, and how far can he stretch it. Not to mention he has to see is opponent to attach his chakra shadow to him.


This is best I came up with for shadow within a shadow thing.

[Assertn]

even the stars emit some sort of light, so the only way for there to be complete darkness anyway would be with some sort of jutsu......or maybe inside a building with no windows and lights or something

[Cyan]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (To Young @ Feb 18 2004, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Not to mention he has to see is opponent to attach his chakra shadow to him. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
If this is true we don&#39;t have an expample in the episodes of this. Also in the last one he couldn&#39;t see the guy in the tree, he only knew where he&#39;d need to stretch the shadow.

Otherwise most of what you said makes sense.

[BakaShinji]

Mmm. makes sense. Chakra shadow.

Something about his shadow though... does it really hurt himself?

i.e. Kim hit her head on a wall - and shika didn&#39;t get hurt
i.e. Shika threw 8 kunais and stars at the sound - which in essense would have hurt himself...

yet Naruto punching Gaara hurt Shika that&#39;s stupid&#33;

i think the animators messed up royally here... I don&#39;t think it&#39;s supposed to hurt himself when his bound enemies get hurt. his shadow skill isn&#39;t like ino&#39;s mind control skill.

there is the possibility that shika unbound his shadow on kim, and planned on doing it to the sound nins the moment before the kunais hit - but we didn&#39;t see that.

also if he does get hurt from opponent injuries, that would mean what happens to opponents happen to him. In essense someone could have picked up dosu and shika would have moved along without any control - a pretty stupid skill if you ask me.

Stupid cartoons&#33; make me think too much&#33;&#33;&#33;

[RockLeeisHOT]

light cannot exist without the darkness.... and vice versa hehe. This is an interesting topic ^^

[Everon]

Lol that &quot;manga&quot; page is funny. I especially love the detail you added to shikamaru.

[RockLeeisHOT]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BakaShinji @ Feb 18 2004, 10:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> yet Naruto punching Gaara hurt Shika that&#39;s stupid&#33;


</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
ok I might sound dumb, but I don&#39;t think that punch actually HURT Shikamaru. He just felt the momentum, and his head was pushed back as if he were hit. He moved in the same way Gaara moved, so he probably got a bit of whiplash http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[rEkKaShInObI]

all i gotta say is, shikamaru is someone to be feared.

[DB_Hunter]

OK just on this earth shadow thing when it is night time half of the earth is NOT in the shadow of the other half, it is not facing the sunf so it is in darkness. The shadow that the earth creates is actually projected into space.... and that is you could say a shadow in darkness.

[kimunist]

thats what i was saying http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[BakaShinji]

also if he does get hurt from opponent injuries, that would mean what happens to opponents happen to him.

In essense someone could have picked up dosu and shika would have moved along without any control - a pretty stupid skill if you ask me.

[.akai]

Sometimes I feel that you, gotwooters, think too much. But it is interesting how some of you can pin-point tiny details like this. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Everon]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (.akai @ Feb 19 2004, 01:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Sometimes I feel that you, gotwooters, think too much. But it is interesting how some of you can pin-point tiny details like this. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yes its all provoking deep thought ain&#39;t it?

[Kn1ves]

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Iii%20Kn1ves%20iiI/shikamaru.jpg


there taht should settle what exactly would happen if there was pitch black

[shino23]

the only reason why shika got hurt when naruto hit gaara is because his head snapped back and caught shika off guard , and shika was not going to get hit when he threw the 8 kunais and stars because the other sound nins didnt have it in the first place , they just immitated the movement of shika , look carefully at episode 70 , when shika was going to throw the kunais , the sound nin didnt have kunais in their hands , ok http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Assertn]

it was kishimoto&#39;s idea to have shikamaru feel the impact of naruto&#39;s punch on gaara, so its not really the animators&#39; fault for that. What could&#39;ve happened was with kin he might have released the shadow just before she hit her head (which could also explain why he needed the shuriken as a distraction. That way when he releases the jutsu at the last moment, she wont even realize it and will still attempt to dodje the shuriken the same way shikamaru did). As for the 8 sound nins, shikamaru knew that there was a 9th hiding somewhere, so he threw the kunais with the intention of them being deflected. He just wanted to see where the 9th one was hiding

[The_Fourth]

By making that shadow jutsu shikamaru binds himself physically to the person his juts is ment for, so when someone attacks the opponent shikamaru receives an equal part of the damage that was inflicted to the other person. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[Assertn]

well its designed to disable the opponent, not defeat them...
A more offensive attack probably wouldnt have kept gaara from killing rock lee in the hospital room