71 preview [Archive] - Gotwoot Forums

Jman

Thu, 02-12-2004, 11:01 AM

seems like Anbu&Aone had released 70 today
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Naruto Fan Updates
ANBU & Aone Episode 70
Reported by: Tazmo on February 12 2004, 7:06PM
Edit: Anbu & Aone appear to have unreleased this episode (somehow) as it is no longer avaliable on any Bittorent. Chapter 204 is coming tomorrow hopefully so let's all look forward to that, and a new page that I am writing right now!
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Insomniac

Thu, 02-12-2004, 11:38 AM

they draw characters horribly, like gaara was bloated and his eyes were floating around his head.
it just pains me to see Oro turn into a huge fat man - especially during one of the defining points of the anime

jing

Thu, 02-12-2004, 11:46 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Feb 12 2004, 10:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> they draw characters horribly, like gaara was bloated and his eyes were floating around his head.
it just pains me to see Oro turn into a huge fat man - especially during one of the defining points of the anime </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
n especially when Oro's a thin person. thinnest person perhaps.

Hotsuma

Thu, 02-12-2004, 11:57 AM

If the Koreans mess up the Hokage fight, I'm going to be pissed. That fight is one of the most epic battles in the series, and deserves justice.

Raven

Thu, 02-12-2004, 11:58 AM

Well let's face it, it can't be 100% perfect all of the time - it would be too expensive and it would take too long.

People always complain with only a week to wait.... imagine if they put more effort in and we had to wait a month per episode. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/huh.gif

Hatake Kakashi

Thu, 02-12-2004, 11:59 AM

They should just take them completely out of the foreground stuff. I mean its nice that the Japanese main guys get a break from it, but there work is 10X better.

I am hoping that for the Hokage-Oro and Shikaku vs Gamabunta fight, we see some damn good animation from the land of the rising sun.

ngbetter11

Thu, 02-12-2004, 12:37 PM

stop bashing the korean artists. its not their fault the japanese artists dont wanna do it. its not like they asked to draw one of the most anticipated fight scenes so far. if you are gonna blame someone, blame the japanese artists for always letting the korean artists drawing the good episodes.

Hatake Kakashi

Thu, 02-12-2004, 12:40 PM

no, why should we? They are paid to do quality work and they turn out garbage designs every outing. Their animation techniques are also not up to par with the japanese people.

It is half assed outings like these are proof why Korean Animation does not have an identity, or is very well known.

They work for cheap, but their work is poor, so it evens out.

itachi_

Fri, 02-13-2004, 02:54 AM

Well geez! looks like the korean team is here to stay http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/sad.gif

Tenkei

Fri, 02-13-2004, 03:14 AM

It just sounds kind of offensive the way you guys are saying it ...

Things like "Koreans suck at character designs", and "If the Koreans mess up the fight" can make it sound like you're being pretty offensive, don't you think?

Honestly, they aren't paid to do quality character designs. The reason that they get the work is because they'll do it for cheaper. They pay cheap for episodes that the staff doesn't care much about, and so, the amount of money will effect the quality of the episode.
For the nicer episodes, they'll head more towards a higher quality.

I'm not saying you guys were trying to make Korean people sound bad. I'm just letting you know from an outside perspective that it sounds like you're bashing all Korean artists/animators. XD

But yeah. Not every episode can look super good. Due to the series being huge, it would be impossible of even think of having a budget large enough to pay for the best animation for everything. The best is saved for the fights and scenes they think are most important.
Honestly, doesn't it make those fight scenes just that much better?

(Personally, I hate the Hokage vs. Orochimaru fight, anyways ^^* At least. It's good story-wise, but I found the actual fight to be boring.)

rEkKaShInObI

Fri, 02-13-2004, 03:40 AM

Maybe its temporary?

XwingRob

Fri, 02-13-2004, 03:59 AM

While I do understand that it is cheaper, it makes me wonder: How can these people have satisifaction with their work?? I mean come on, I'm not expecting Nara Animation team-quality every episode but the characters should not look that deformed.

OshadowO

Fri, 02-13-2004, 03:59 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tenkei @ Feb 12 2004, 11:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It just sounds kind of offensive the way you guys are saying it ...

Things like "Koreans suck at character designs", and "If the Koreans mess up the fight" can make it sound like you're being pretty offensive, don't you think?

Honestly, they aren't paid to do quality character designs. The reason that they get the work is because they'll do it for cheaper. They pay cheap for episodes that the staff doesn't care much about, and so, the amount of money will effect the quality of the episode.
For the nicer episodes, they'll head more towards a higher quality.

I'm not saying you guys were trying to make Korean people sound bad. I'm just letting you know from an outside perspective that it sounds like you're bashing all Korean artists/animators. XD

But yeah. Not every episode can look super good. Due to the series being huge, it would be impossible of even think of having a budget large enough to pay for the best animation for everything. The best is saved for the fights and scenes they think are most important.
Honestly, doesn't it make those fight scenes just that much better?

(Personally, I hate the Hokage vs. Orochimaru fight, anyways ^^* At least. It's good story-wise, but I found the actual fight to be boring.) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I hear that.
Its really the producing team's fault for skimping out on moments that deserve the most attention. After all its their baby not the Koreans. If the creators don't give a damn about their product why should some third party thats probably churning out eps for other houses too.

Legato 2057

Fri, 02-13-2004, 03:59 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ngbetter11 @ Feb 12 2004, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> stop bashing the korean artists. its not their fault the japanese artists dont wanna do it. its not like they asked to draw one of the most anticipated fight scenes so far. if you are gonna blame someone, blame the japanese artists for always letting the korean artists drawing the good episodes. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I doubt the artists themselves have any say in the matter. The only reason to move to a different animatio studio is purely a monetary decision.

Legendary Nin

Fri, 02-13-2004, 05:10 AM

Fucked up Oro and Hokage fight.A soon to be fucked up Itachi and mange sharingan,followed by a fucked up rasengan and a fucked up Tsunade.If this keeps up,someone should just take Korean team off the map.I'm sure the north is going to take Korea right off,so its not like we'd have to worry anymore.(not like that's good or anything,except for the Korean team,they can jump off a cliff).

Insomniac

Fri, 02-13-2004, 05:11 AM

well the animators dont seem to have ANY experience at all in drawing, i mean just look at how they draw its just like they got some random people do it...

most of the fanart in the board are far better then the stuff they do.

as for people taking offense at the 'korean' team, thats what they are, they're the korean team.
If you find that racist then go tell them to change their race, personally i dont see why its racist at all - we're not talking about WHO THEY ARE, we're talking about the QUALITY of DRAWING.
theres nothing racist in saying they suck, they're a team from korea so we can call them the korean team cant we? its not like we're saying all koreans suck at drawing just THEM.

itachi_

Fri, 02-13-2004, 05:21 AM

We should send a "Hitokiri" to assaassinate them all http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif.. they're ruin the joy of watching Naruto

Destroyor

Fri, 02-13-2004, 05:53 AM

In the preview only the "fat oro" scene is mess up, so it's not really for sure that 71 will be a "mess-up-crappy-korean draw-eps". Maybe Oro is doing a jutsu that's why he look fat???

itachi_

Fri, 02-13-2004, 06:40 AM

Not only Orochimaru, but Hokage 3rd also, he looked like a ape to me, just look at his face

revel911

Fri, 02-13-2004, 06:54 AM

I think the best point so far was by Hatake Kakashi, they should let the Koreans or Team B do a good percentage of the backgrounds while the Japanese premier artist do the forgrounds and characters, this could really help balance the budget so that EVERY episode is up to par.

Insomniac

Fri, 02-13-2004, 09:08 AM

no he doesnt use a jutsu to make him fat, geez some people :/

itachi_

Fri, 02-13-2004, 09:44 AM

I just want to throw up when i see the preview, Orochimaru is like "the lard man". http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I hope that that one won't be like epsiode 65

TeLeKiNeSiS

Fri, 02-13-2004, 09:56 AM

maybe oro has something inside him that he needs to shoot out...a fireball perhaps? or maybe its some jutsu, i duno. how do you know he isnt intentionally drawn that way?

itachi_

Fri, 02-13-2004, 10:01 AM

A little bit roughly spoked about the episode...btw don't you think that asuma is one of the psysically biggest jounin's along with baki, i'd like to see one of those fight against Kakashi, would they be able to beat him?

Tenkei

Fri, 02-13-2004, 10:35 AM

^^* Still .. you guys are talking like the artwork stinks in comparison to, say, fanart done on this bored. Which, yes, the fanart may be better. But you have to consider that the people drawing the fanart don't do it in such a way as to plan ahead like they're animating it.

During animation, they have to consider how to draw things so it'll be easy to animate for them. They can't add too much detail or too many lines. It would slow them down.

Shortening it up a bit, people doing fanart and other single pieces of artwork is completely different than an animation team, who has to focus on doing thousands of pieces in a short period of time. So, it's a lot different.

It certainly shouldn't be said that these people don't work hard. Animators work very hard to get their deadlines and things. It's not an easy job at all, if you want to go read up on it a little bit.

If you want high-quality artwork that stays consistent, you can read the manga. ^^* No long anime like Naruto will stay looking top-notch every episode. It's just impossible. Shorter series will look nicer every time.

It's not something new, anyways. The animation has been doing this for quite a while, actually. Ever since the end of the Haku/Zabuza arc, it's been unstable. So..

Insomniac

Fri, 02-13-2004, 10:49 AM

why cant they just hire one animation team the whole time?
i'm sure kishimoto wouldnt be happy with the quality of work thats being churned out by the lesser team.
its not that its a massive effort - THEY GET PAID TO DO IT.
they're not doing it for free, its their JOB to make it look good.

Hatake Kakashi

Fri, 02-13-2004, 11:02 AM

The reason the Japanese have them is to save money. Korean animators do work for cheap, but their work tends to be subpar. It is just Bird Studio or whatever it is trying to cut some costs on animation teams. Which is pretty stupid because they could hire up and coming Japanese animators and get better work for the same price.

itachi_

Fri, 02-13-2004, 11:04 AM

It's strange that they don't have the money that's required, i don't get it. It's so popular, it should't be a problem.

Hyuga Koji

Fri, 02-13-2004, 11:11 AM

They probably have the money it's simple business if they can get the work done for cheaper occasionally they're going to do it.

It's not really that many people bitching about it so they don't really think twice about saving some cash.

Insomniac

Fri, 02-13-2004, 11:57 AM

its simple - they want to make as much money out of it as they can, which means lower the quality to get more money.

Assertn

Fri, 02-13-2004, 12:18 PM

i tend to wonder how other anime series that have lots of episodes manage to keep their quality alot more consistent. Like One Piece and Kenshin for example. Although then again the quality in those are consistently good, while naruto fluctuates between awesome and annoying, so i guess it balances out. I thought it was very painful to see orochimaru in the previews, but then i remembered that there IS a time when he takes his face off to show what the body he possesses REALLY looks like, so maybe they tried to make him shorter and noticeably different cause of the younger body he reveals to Sarutobi.

Insomniac

Fri, 02-13-2004, 12:49 PM

if they tried to make him shorter why would they make him fatter?
thats really just a bad attempt at Orochimaru's normal form if you look, when he takes off his face his height doesnt change either just his face.

i dont understand why its so hard to just keep one team doing each episode, other less popular animes do it.
i'm just sooo disappointed that naruto choose to crap up the hokage fight http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/sad.gif
i guess they're valueing gaara vs naruto more

Jman

Fri, 02-13-2004, 12:56 PM

preview stunk. Oro gained, while Hokage lost pounds

Kyuubi_Rage

Fri, 02-13-2004, 01:15 PM

Well i never seen them use taijutsu, that makes some fights boring.

Hotsuma

Sat, 02-14-2004, 02:52 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tenkei @ Feb 13 2004, 03:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It just sounds kind of offensive the way you guys are saying it ...

Things like "Koreans suck at character designs", and "If the Koreans mess up the fight" can make it sound like you're being pretty offensive, don't you think?

Honestly, they aren't paid to do quality character designs. The reason that they get the work is because they'll do it for cheaper. They pay cheap for episodes that the staff doesn't care much about, and so, the amount of money will effect the quality of the episode.
For the nicer episodes, they'll head more towards a higher quality.

I'm not saying you guys were trying to make Korean people sound bad. I'm just letting you know from an outside perspective that it sounds like you're bashing all Korean artists/animators. XD

But yeah. Not every episode can look super good. Due to the series being huge, it would be impossible of even think of having a budget large enough to pay for the best animation for everything. The best is saved for the fights and scenes they think are most important.
Honestly, doesn't it make those fight scenes just that much better?

(Personally, I hate the Hokage vs. Orochimaru fight, anyways ^^* At least. It's good story-wise, but I found the actual fight to be boring.) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I wish Koreans didn't develop such a bad rap, with the episode right before the big Sasuke-Gaara fight.

I'm Korean, and when I see that my country is being knocked on for bad animation, I get pissed. But, the fact that they'd do such a half-assed job to begin with, really burns me up more.

It seems that the only thing Koreans really excel at making, are cell phones.

If anybody actually knows of a Korean animated series that's as good as various anime, please inform me. The only "anime" from Korea I saw in the states was Armageddon - and that fucking blew chunks.

Kiba-kun

Sat, 02-14-2004, 02:53 AM

The art may looks a little weird, but the animation will rock, just like in ep 30
And it seems like Temari is going to fight Sasuke o_O yay! I dont mind the fillers if Temari is in them ;P

Hatake Kakashi

Sat, 02-14-2004, 04:15 AM

Supposedly Wonderful Days was a very well animated Korean movie, but it bombed their due to the storyline.

Arctyc

Sat, 02-14-2004, 04:17 AM

It's not supposed to be a generalized slur -- but you need to consider that there is no concrete identity for these outsourced animators for which the blame to be fixed. What we know is they are not Nara Animation, and they are not nearly as good as Nara Animation.

It is possible, though I don't know if true, for a company to exist in Korea that does excellent work in the field of animation. Its relevance to the current situation is questionable, for while the subpar work is obviously done from a group different from the norm which we have become accustomed, it is almost certainly all done by the same third-party group, whoever they are.

What I wonder is how this money/team size/timelining issue is working out so far for the producers. They can't be any happier than us fans when it comes to having half of their episodes tweened to hell. There must be a factor at play for why they cannot a) move to a bimonthly airing format, b ) budget new hires and training for Nara Animation to handle the workload, or c) find a different outsourcing company.

pavi

Sat, 02-14-2004, 04:34 AM

keeping the quality in a long eps series shouldnt be hard for naruto. just look at inu yasha. ive seen 'bout the 1st 30 eps and each one was as great as the one b4. the quality in that was always awesome. poor poor naruto http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/sad.gif

Slain

Sat, 02-14-2004, 04:37 AM

i think it looks like the fight between oro and sasuke.....
or not ? http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/unsure.gif

Legendary Nin

Sat, 02-14-2004, 06:07 AM

Someone should Photo shop Oro into Santa Claus.He has the weight to go with it,and maybe a hokage elf because he is so damn small in that episode.

Insomniac

Sat, 02-14-2004, 06:21 AM

well said http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Oro looks more like Chouji at the moment

Insomniac

Sat, 02-14-2004, 06:49 AM

i just dont understand how something of that quality can be accepted?
its just weird... wouldnt they have a minimum standard or something

everything about that preview was just ass, all the jutsus looked stupid and out of place, oro was a fat man and the 3rd looked weird

Kyuubi_Rage

Sat, 02-14-2004, 07:21 AM

LOL, I'll just saw it, Oro look like a fat man. they should think before they make naruto. Because everyone loves naruto.

Vagabond

Sat, 02-14-2004, 07:27 AM

Hotsuma: If i'm not mistaken i think futurama was animated by koreans. I think there are a lot of "american" cartoons that are animated by koreans.

Insomniac

Sat, 02-14-2004, 01:07 PM

yeah the characters seemed so different from the episode before, the only thing that makes them recognisable is the clothes they're wearing

ricefarmer

Mon, 02-16-2004, 06:38 AM

i think it would be jsut like eps 33 i believe with oro/sasuke fight.. man the drawing was kinda bad but the animation was super awesome.. if its the same team that did ep33 doing the hokage fight then im fine with it..

tsunade lover.....

Uzumaki Naruto

Mon, 02-16-2004, 08:45 AM

hehe yea hes does look fat in the eps preview of 71, but tis just a preview dont rellay know if its going to look like that

itachi_

Mon, 02-16-2004, 10:38 AM

Is there anyone that has actually confirmed and have proove that it's those damn koreans again? or was it just something screwed with the preview? has anyone said something about, announced it on some site?

Arctyc

Tue, 02-17-2004, 05:06 AM

It's the image quality, mostly.

Here are some side-by-sides.

http://arctyc.echoechoplus.com/example1.jpg
http://arctyc.echoechoplus.com/example2.jpg

gaara

Tue, 02-17-2004, 07:11 AM

71 looks way better than 70, crack fiends

RaZzy

Tue, 02-17-2004, 09:18 AM

its the same animation/quality as episode 30 (sas vs oro)
look at the way temari is drawn and look at the part where sasuke is jumping

and i loved the animation and also the quality in that episode... but especially becuz the animation was so fluent.

KakashiSensei

Tue, 02-17-2004, 09:38 AM

I think what people are trying to say is the detail in the animation is not as high as Ep 70. Like they had to rush it.

kimunist

Tue, 02-17-2004, 11:43 AM

what an indepth coverage...

btw:

you guys are bashing on KOREAN animators..because if you are just calling them "korean" b/c they are from korea, its nice how you guys keep saying "those damn korean animators" or "those koreans are screwing up good episodes"

honestly, dont try to cover up racist comments with facts...

either way, just by looking at a preview, if you dont like it, do you have to watch it?

Kiba-kun

Wed, 02-18-2004, 02:03 AM

I dont know what are you all talking about, just saw episode 71 raw and its just AWESOME, the animation was badass and the art was pretty good, a little weird at some points... but IMO this one is up there with 48 and 30 xD

pd; Oh, and it was done by Nara Animation & Gainax

Legendary Nin

Wed, 02-18-2004, 03:12 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kimunist @ Feb 17 2004, 11:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> what an indepth coverage...

btw:

you guys are bashing on KOREAN animators..because if you are just calling them "korean" b/c they are from korea, its nice how you guys keep saying "those damn korean animators" or "those koreans are screwing up good episodes"

honestly, dont try to cover up racist comments with facts...

either way, just by looking at a preview, if you dont like it, do you have to watch it? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Angry Korean? Anyways,they are from Korea right? They blow Chobits right? So they are Korean animators that blow Chobits correct? Then how's that racist? It's not like where using racial slurs.We aren't going shitty typical asian quality this,chink that.We aren't generalizing a group of people or a country,were just stating the obvious about their animation.If the Japanese animators sucked,you can gurantee that I would say the "Japanese" animators blow Chobits too.And that goes for any other country.I have no reason to be bias for any other countries,yet http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif .

RaZzy

Wed, 02-18-2004, 06:32 AM

fuck man..... <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>episode 71 will prove you all wrong !!!</span>

kimunist

Wed, 02-18-2004, 10:15 AM

the episode was awesome indeed, even though the animation wasnt as great, but oh well, they managed to make it look awesome in some ways.

and Tenkei, that was basically what i was trying to say, even though i never went specific enough to say that...

but when people constantly repeat it over and over, it starts sounding racist.

call me a sensitive korean =)

oh well

itachi_

Wed, 02-18-2004, 01:09 PM

There's nothing wrong with epsiode 71 most likely... It's like epsiode 30, low detailed... look at these pics
http://members.shaw.ca/kurrupt83/sakura.jpg
http://www.mindwarpet.com/digitalsasuke2.JPG
http://www.mindwarpet.com/digitalsasuke.JPG

compare with this one
http://www.mindwarpet.com/flatandplaintemari.JPG
http://www.mindwarpet.com/retarded3rd.JPG

It's like this episode will be a low detailed one, a more smooth one, sasuke and the other will look more babyish

Hatake Kakashi

Wed, 02-18-2004, 01:26 PM

We can say that the Korean animators are doing a shitty job when they get handed the full episode duties. Hell that comparison post speaks for itself...

If Thailand people were animating a fill in ep and they screwed up, we would say that they suck.

Nothing against Koreans in particular, just that they do a shitty job on Naruto eps when they fill in.

Which is a real shame, because I have seen Wonderful Days, and that is top notch animation. It shows that when they are given a long time to work on a project they can pull off something great. I think they are just being blitzed for these episodes and really do a half assed job then send it over to Japan.

Insomniac

Wed, 02-18-2004, 01:27 PM

i dont know how its a racist comment, its not like we're targetting all koreans and saying they all suck at the quality of animation produced, only the team that does naruto.
that side by side comparison says it all

Power PMV

Wed, 02-18-2004, 01:32 PM

I don't see where the racism is either. They are just criticizing the animators. No one has said Korea or Koreans suck. They have said that those specific Korean animators suck.

Tenkei

Wed, 02-18-2004, 01:53 PM

I think the racism comes in when you repeat "The Koreans did this" and "The Koreans did that", is all. I don't see it really as you guys trying to be racist at all. I only post about it because I see that it could be taken that way. Moreso by a person who is Korean, I'm sure.

It's not so much that it's said once, but when it's continuously repeated "Oh, those Korean animators suck" "Yeah, the Koreans don't know what they're doing", etc., etc., it just gets more irritating as it goes. It would probably just be better off to save the hassle and say "The alternate animation team", or something like that. I guess.

Anyways. Again, it's not a problem with the Korean people, it's just a problem with the fact that they paid for a low-budget team.

By the way: To the person who talked about Futurama, yeah. You'll find that almost every American cartoon has its animation done in Korean, these days. Simply because of the fact that it's a lot cheaper.

But I think this is kind of a dead topic, at this point. Poking about this subject anymore may just bring about flames/arguments, so I'm just going to leave it alone, now. ^^

Arctyc

Thu, 02-19-2004, 03:14 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>& Gainax
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

That explains... so much! http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

zidane

Thu, 02-19-2004, 12:54 PM

Fluid animation from the koreans ownz that choppy japanese shit. Im sorry to say, but its a fact, the japanese dont even bother to animate how they jump from tree to tree, they just let the background blur and the charachters are static in front of it like they are flying, and just adding a noise to point out they arent really flying. Yes, their animation is more colorfull and vibrant, but its static as a mofo, and often looks very kiddie. The koreans the couple of episodes they did , including ep 30 and this one, well, the animation was so damn fluid it looked like a high budget movie at times. Art is nice, but just look at how they fucked up sasuke vs gaara in the arena, sasuke ran like a retard, cause the japs can barely animate a fluid motion. Same in the naruto vs neji fight, in the final ep. It was all moving backgrounds, very little movement of naruto and neji themselfs, yes, backgrounds move, and when they aproach eachother all that really happend was a near static animation just being drawn closer to create the cheap image of someone moving fast. Frankly , i think this looks to much simpsons animation, bright and vibrant, but not particularly strong when it comes to action. Korea for life http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif