Shikamaru

[hiten mitsurugi]

It was discussed in the Naruto anime (episode 66), the jounins stated that Shika had great leadership skills. They commented on how his giving up boosted his leadership skill. They supported this my using the premise "I completed my mission, but lost my whole team in the process." The jounins thought that this would never happen to someone like Shika (i.e. Shika would never allow it). Yet, it is actually happening. Chouji, Neji, and Kiba may be dead. The only ones left are Shika (himself), and Naruto. This contradicts every premise that enabled him to become a chunin.


So I ask you, how did Shika become a chunin? The only answer I could find that would satisfy everything that has happened, is if none of the team members are dead.

[Insomniac]

Sasuke is an Uchiha, which means if he gets away then do all the Uchiha clan secrets, in terms of worth his safety is a bigger priority then the lives of the genins.

although its pointless to discuss this as he obviously deserved to be a chuunin more then the others - which has been explained in both the anime and the manga, you can say he didnt deserve to but its a test made up for the series, so any explaination the series gives on a person passing we have to take as correct.

Their test, their rules (note: those chuunin who were talking about Shikamaru were only discussing, they wernt the people to decide, which means we may never know the extent of reasons why he became chuunin)

[hiten mitsurugi]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Jan 28 2004, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Sasuke is an Uchiha, which means if he gets away then do all the Uchiha clan secrets, in terms of worth his safety is a bigger priority then the lives of the genins.

although its pointless to discuss this as he obviously deserved to be a chuunin more then the others - which has been explained in both the anime and the manga, you can say he didnt deserve to but its a test made up for the series, so any explaination the series gives on a person passing we have to take as correct.

Their test, their rules (note: those chuunin who were talking about Shikamaru were only discussing, they wernt the people to decide, which means we may never know the extent of reasons why he became chuunin) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
What you&#39;ve just said contradicts everything the manga/anime series is about.
I just qouted a very important aspect of a mission, your team&#39;s life (completing a mission, but losing everyone on the team). The genin&#39;s lives have meaning too. Don&#39;t forget everything we&#39;ve come to know about Naruto manga/anime like those who leave their comrades behind are worst than trash, etc. You are missing a very important point too, Sasuke isn&#39;t the only Uchiha, Itachi has already escaped and he hold many more secrest than Sasuke.

There was no explanation in either the manga or the anime. What little that was said to support the decision, he just exacerbated during this mission.

More importantly, I just don&#39;t like it when the authors have this many faults in their story-line.

[Hatake Kakashi]

Those guys that said that Shikamaru would make a good leader where not Jounin&#39;s, they were Chuunins. Two of them were from the beggining of the arc, that did there own Unofficial First Test.

Oh and Shikamaru became a Chuunin because he realized that you didn&#39;t have to win to become one. He also didn&#39;t have any kind of personal grudge against anyone. Everone else who actually fought had a grudge and took it to the limit.

Shikamaru just quit because he showed his best stuff anyway, and he got bored too I think.

He just took the smart way out and it paid off.

He is a good choice for a Chuunin too, as shown in his latest outing as the Pursuit Team Leader in the recent manga chapters.

[Insomniac]

If it were anyone but Naruto then friendship wouldnt be a huge deal, the other ninjas have jobs to do and arent expected to be great friends with everyone - just look at the &#39;enemy&#39; states, they&#39;re efficient with little to no ties with their teammates but Naruto teaches us that friendship matters (which is a hole in the story in the first place as ninjas wernt meant to have such ties)

you have to accept that this isnt your average ninja story where everythings literal - the fact is that Shikamaru made chuunin, we dont know the exact reason why because the people to explain it were chuunins just discussing what they thought.

you want to talk about plot holes? talk about how Itachi can be stronger then Orochimaru when Orochimaru can summon the dead, Manda the great snake and possess peoples bodies.
oh and that Kabuto can fight Tsunade, Shizune, summon Manda + two other snakes then take a rasengen in the stomach and survive when hes supposibily Kakashis level.

you&#39;ll just have to take the series&#39;s word for it - if you dont like it that much then theres always the simple answer of not reading/watching

[PSJ]

this talk about &quot;he is leaving the team behind&quot; is just bull. chouji for one did it on his own. he said something like &quot;you guys go ahead ill take care of this&quot; and Neji stayed cause naruto could go ahead and take care of the big fish. Shikamaru have done his job exellent up to this point, at least thats my opinion.

[Insomniac]

for them to come this far its obviously due to Shikamarus decisions.
they would have had no chance if they just acted on their own.

[Hotsuma]

I think you&#39;re missing the jist of what it takes to be a ninja. And, Shikamaru, OTOH, might have (but, he actually probably didn&#39;t care that much, given his laziness).

When the Chuunin exams ended (albeit, prematurely), I think the higher ranks in Konoha believed that Shikamaru knew what it meant to actually be a ninja. Stuff that a ninja lives by.

A ninja needs to know beneath, the beneath. Err... something like that.

Point is, there might have been more to that tournament, than just fighting. I think he knew that. If it was really just a normal tournament where you rise in ranks, there could only be one Chuunin as Shikamaru mentioned. But, the 3rd Hokage said it was possible that all of them, or none of them could become Chuunin.

When the higher ups made him a Chuunin, they probably judged him, according to what he has done THEN, because as Genma and the other Chuunin/Jounin said, he had what it takes to be a Chuunin then. It&#39;s not like he&#39;s going to become a superb chuunin overnight, but he was still far ahead of the competition, in that he showed some charisma as a potential leader. Obviously, this only improves with actual field experience.

And, it&#39;s unlikely that Neji is dead. Otherwise, his seal would&#39;ve disappeared. I&#39;m 50-50 about Chouji, though. I don&#39;t think he is, however. I seriously doubt that fall would have killed Kiba. It&#39;s possible that he could&#39;ve used chakra to grab onto something on the way down.

This is, of course, speculation. But, still somewhat legit, I suppose.

I think Shikamaru is a good Chuunin. He&#39;s a hell of a lot better than what Naruto or anybody else would&#39;ve been.

[PSJ]

yep you&#39;re right there. kiba and naruto doesnt think at all they just jump into fights and neji seems to think of himself to heroic to run away or something. and what happened to Chouji is unknown but he jumped into a fight to. very unexpected. shikamaru is the reason why they have come this far but its not all thanks to him. its because both Chouji and Neji fought very well against their opponents and i imagine that Kiba will too.

[mage]

if bringing back sasuke is SO important, why the hell did they only send five kids in the first place? youd think theyd send some anbu/jounin along with them. of course its been awhile since ive read that part, but perhaps it may have said they were low on men and had only them to use or something like that http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

and what the hell? how are they on par with jounins trained by orochimaru? not to mention the sound nins have cursed seal level 2. naruto and the others arent THAT special. I dont see how this can happen unless oro&#39;s henchmen are incredibly weak. the cursed seal was shown to give you super speed/strength when they showed it on sasuke vs the three sound nins, but now these 12 year olds are able to defeate jounins at level TWO curse seal?

[Vagabond]

I don&#39;t think the 4 sound nins are at the jounin level. All four of them could barely beat two jounins while using their level 2 seals. Anyways I think Shika is at chunnin level. All the other genins are good at fighting one on one but they can&#39;t come up with a good plan. When you think about a real ninja hardly ever fights someone one on one. Being able to create a plan is more important.

[Death BOO Z]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mage @ Jan 29 2004, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> and what the hell? how are they on par with jounins trained by orochimaru? not to mention the sound nins have cursed seal level 2. naruto and the others arent THAT special. I dont see how this can happen unless oro&#39;s henchmen are incredibly weak. the cursed seal was shown to give you super speed/strength when they showed it on sasuke vs the three sound nins, but now these 12 year olds are able to defeate jounins at level TWO curse seal? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
welcome to the world of anime, where kids who train for a month can defeat experts who put thier whole life into fighting...

Kishimonto doesn&#39;t have enough plot writing experince to make the &#39;super powered kids&#39; sympthome seem half beliveable.
I can stand Neji (a super genious) and Naruto (a monster) winning against all the odds, even chouji can pass with his last resort sacrifice pills, but there&#39;s no way i&#39;m gonna buy it if Kiba and Shikamaru win a one-on-one fight. Kiba is an loud mouth idiot, who is probably the &#39;avarge&#39; male genin, and Shikamaru is &#39;good only in running away&#39;, he couldn&#39;t even beat the sound nins who were after them in the forest, and i don&#39;t think he&#39;ll be able to do shit against any of the sound five, even without the curse seal lvl1.

but still, i&#39;ve seen worse cases of &#39;kid overpower experts&#39;, just think about Flame of Recca (&quot;look&#33; i have a madgou which makes me ultra strong&#33; i can kick you legendary ass in no time&#33;&quot;) or Dragon Ball (&quot;sure, you are the strongest guy in the world and you won the championship many times, but i trained the last eight months&#33; and so i can beat you in no problem&#33;&quot;).

that&#39;s one of the problems of Kodoma animes, you can&#39;t write normal kids as heros if you want it to be a reasonable and intersting story...

[Unidentified]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Death BOO Z @ Jan 29 2004, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mage &#064; Jan 29 2004, 05:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> and what the hell? how are they on par with jounins trained by orochimaru? not to mention the sound nins have cursed seal level 2. naruto and the others arent THAT special. I dont see how this can happen unless oro&#39;s henchmen are incredibly weak. the cursed seal was shown to give you super speed/strength when they showed it on sasuke vs the three sound nins, but now these 12 year olds are able to defeate jounins at level TWO curse seal? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
welcome to the world of anime, where kids who train for a month can defeat experts who put thier whole life into fighting...

Kishimonto doesn&#39;t have enough plot writing experince to make the &#39;super powered kids&#39; sympthome seem half beliveable.
I can stand Neji (a super genious) and Naruto (a monster) winning against all the odds, even chouji can pass with his last resort sacrifice pills, but there&#39;s no way i&#39;m gonna buy it if Kiba and Shikamaru win a one-on-one fight. Kiba is an loud mouth idiot, who is probably the &#39;avarge&#39; male genin, and Shikamaru is &#39;good only in running away&#39;, he couldn&#39;t even beat the sound nins who were after them in the forest, and i don&#39;t think he&#39;ll be able to do shit against any of the sound five, even without the curse seal lvl1.

but still, i&#39;ve seen worse cases of &#39;kid overpower experts&#39;, just think about Flame of Recca (&quot;look&#33; i have a madgou which makes me ultra strong&#33; i can kick you legendary ass in no time&#33;&quot;) or Dragon Ball (&quot;sure, you are the strongest guy in the world and you won the championship many times, but i trained the last eight months&#33; and so i can beat you in no problem&#33;&quot;).

that&#39;s one of the problems of Kodoma animes, you can&#39;t write normal kids as heros if you want it to be a reasonable and intersting story... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Kiba seems pretty average so I don&#39;t think he can win, but he does know the terrain more than anyone else there and can track people down. Shikimaru isn&#39;t so average he is a super genius after all and I don&#39;t think the sound nins are Jounins.

This is off topic but in Dragon Ball about the tournament thing Goku doesn&#39;t win all the time, he only won the tournament once and that was at the end of DB after 17(or however old he was) years of training and fighting because he has been training all his life(even in teh first episode he goes out when he wakes up and starts training). I agree that Neji and Chouji had a reason to win against them, one being the heir to one of the best clans in his village and the other only winning against the weakest of them using pills. Not sure if it&#39;s mentioned what rank the sound nins are.

[jing]

by the way, if Neji wanted to stay, do you think anyone else could have stopped him? no. Neji already made up his decision to stay and beat the shiat outta that guy, so why would he listen to shikamaru.

[itachi_]

Shikamaru has really good leadership, and that&#39;s the important and only thing of being a chuunin. He got ton&#39;s of tactics and he think of his teams survival in first hand.

[pandao]

some of the fights were bs,
i dont think neji should have won, i mean he&#39;s 13? and the spider-guy (forgot his name http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif ) is what? 18-20something. so he would have had many more years of training and experiance than neji AND he had the cursed seal.
neji is such an asshat for winning
http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mad.gif

[jing]

about shika&#39;s mission right now, his whole team is dying(we don&#39;t EVEN know that for sure). but as a leader, that was probably the strategy in that mission, to have them go 1v1, n let them catch up later, shikamaru trusted each and everyone of them. by the way, did you know that the sound were originally STRONGER than the gennins? the sound took down 2 jounins... n they were trained by orochimaru... shikamaru didn&#39;t even know about cursed seal. hes a good leader, but he aint a hokage on a mission. i tihnk you have to know that much...

[itachi_]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jing @ Jan 29 2004, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> about shika&#39;s mission right now, his whole team is dying(we don&#39;t EVEN know that for sure). but as a leader, that was probably the strategy in that mission, to have them go 1v1, n let them catch up later, shikamaru trusted each and everyone of them. by the way, did you know that the sound were originally STRONGER than the gennins? the sound took down 2 jounins... n they were trained by orochimaru... shikamaru didn&#39;t even know about cursed seal. hes a good leader, but he aint a hokage on a mission. i tihnk you have to know that much... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Of course, he ain&#39;t strong just smart... He isn&#39;t as strong as naruto, sasuke, gaara, neji, lee or anyone, but he know how to control a dangerous situation...

[jing]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (itachi_ @ Jan 29 2004, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jing &#064; Jan 29 2004, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> about shika&#39;s mission right now, his whole team is dying(we don&#39;t EVEN know that for sure). but as a leader, that was probably the strategy in that mission, to have them go 1v1, n let them catch up later, shikamaru trusted each and everyone of them. by the way, did you know that the sound were originally STRONGER than the gennins? the sound took down 2 jounins... n they were trained by orochimaru... shikamaru didn&#39;t even know about cursed seal. hes a good leader, but he aint a hokage on a mission. i tihnk you have to know that much... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Of course, he ain&#39;t strong just smart... He isn&#39;t as strong as naruto, sasuke, gaara, neji, lee or anyone, but he know how to control a dangerous situation... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
you still dont get what i mean, but ok..............
were all talking about the mission now, not shikamaru&#39;s strengths and weaknesses... as the topic starter stated that the mission contradics what it means to be a chunnin, but i&#39;ve just said in my last post that all odds was against the team.

[Boogster]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (jing @ Jan 29 2004, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> about shika&#39;s mission right now, his whole team is dying(we don&#39;t EVEN know that for sure). but as a leader, that was probably the strategy in that mission, to have them go 1v1, n let them catch up later, shikamaru trusted each and everyone of them. by the way, did you know that the sound were originally STRONGER than the gennins? the sound took down 2 jounins... n they were trained by orochimaru... shikamaru didn&#39;t even know about cursed seal. hes a good leader, but he aint a hokage on a mission. i tihnk you have to know that much... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
That pretty much sums it up I think.

Shika did not wish for his teammates to die, but to allow one-on-one fights was the strategy that he thought would give the greatest chance of the missions success.

As leader, he must always weigh up the options avialiable:

*To siimply run away from the situation in order to prevent lives being lost would have been foolish.

*Then again, to fight all four nins at once would also have been unwise, owing to their strength.

In conclusion, the decision to draw the sound nins into one-on-one fights was the wisest decision that could have been made, verifying the wisdom of Shika&#39;s promotion.

[Insomniac]

thats true, Shikamaru didnt know anything about the cursed seal level 2 so he made the decision without knowing that - thats the only reason hes starting to lose control of the mission, no one else in the team knew it either though.

[hiten mitsurugi]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hotsuma @ Jan 30 2004, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I see how it is now. Kishimoto discriminates against guys who wears glasses. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Exactly, Kabuto doesn&#39;t get the attention he deserves either.

[Raven]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hotsuma @ Jan 30 2004, 12:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, heck, Neji&#39;s only a developed character with an actual story and background, a distinctive style, and a &quot;type&quot; of character. Whereas, Kidomaru is just some no-name, spur of the moment, villain. Neji should have lost&#33; </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
LOL&#33; Well said, as always.

[itachi_]

Neji and Shikamaru deserves to be chuunin not only Shikamaru.

[Raven]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (itachi_ @ Jan 30 2004, 06:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Neji and Shikamaru deserves to be chuunin not only Shikamaru. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Why Neji? what leadership qualities did he display? it&#39;s not all about combat ability.

[itachi_]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CmDr_RavEn @ Jan 30 2004, 07:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (itachi_ &#064; Jan 30 2004, 06:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Neji and Shikamaru deserves to be chuunin not only Shikamaru. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Why Neji? what leadership qualities did he display? it&#39;s not all about combat ability. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
When they were trapped by the fat sound ninja, he and shikamaru came up with the plan, also he&#39;s not a hesitating person, that get freaked out just because they are in disadvantage, a person who don&#39;t show panic and don&#39;t show eagerness, that&#39;s what a chuunin is, exept the leadership quality. I&#39;m qutoing many people now
Calm, cool, colected that&#39;s very important.

[AlbinoFury]

Aight i need to make a few points.

1. Kidoumaru and the rest of the sound 5 are relatively the same age as the gennins they fight. Why? because Oro would not send older people to show how much power sasuke could have and tempt him, they would send people of relatively the same age to show him what he could attain.

2. We dont know the &quot;rank&quot; of the 4 but we can assume its of the relatively same rank as the gennins, Why? well kimimaro does refer to kabuto as sensei, which puts them about in the same type of timeline as kakashi to the konoha kids. So this whole series of battles could be termed as the best of the sound kids vs the best of the konoha kids, etc.

3. Neji probably deserves to be a chuunin now, but he has changed alot since the exam, hes much cooler, calmer and more collected now. Before he was rash and pissed off at the world, but then he fought naruto and he changed for the better.

4. Just because the sound 4 barely beat those 2 jounins doesnt mean they are way more powerful than the konoha 4. Why? well naruto did kick a chuunins ass while still an academy student, and i bet that naruto and neji and shika alone teamed up could probably handle a jounin or two now if they used full power, hell naruto put a lickin on kabuto and kabuto is elite. granted he didnt beat him and he was helped by tsunade, but none the less he had his moment there and he wasnt even rly using full kyubi mode or anything

5. Neji is alive, or at least he better be&#33; not really contesting anybodies point but i like to throw that in whenever possible, lol. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[hiten mitsurugi]

When you talk about chunnin level, Shino automatically comes to mind. The manga&#39;s great, but the anime series gives Naruto more detail. Did you guys see the latest episode (68), when Sasuke went over the wall to chase Gaara? Who was the calm, collected, strategist (with sunglasses) watching the whole thing? The answer is Shino. His calmness reminds me of Kakashi. They can point a M4 Colt to Shino&#39;s head and he&#39;ll still be standing there, looking real cool. He didn&#39;t fall for the genjutsu, he stood proudly and watched cautiously. Whereas Shika pretended to be asleep. Shino went to help his comrades (Sasuke) without being asked. Shika didn&#39;t even want to, he thought it was too much of a bother, &quot;if you are a Konoha ninja, then make yourself useful.&quot;


And whoever it was that said that it was foolish to run away. It is even more foolish to try to win a fight you just can&#39;t win (good thing it&#39;s an anime).

If you ask me the 5 gennins were outclassed and outgunned; they should have lost (well maybe not all 5, would have lost).

[Hotsuma]

I see how it is now. Kishimoto discriminates against guys who wears glasses.

[jing]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pandao @ Jan 29 2004, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> some of the fights were bs,
i dont think neji should have won, i mean he&#39;s 13? and the spider-guy (forgot his name http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif ) is what? 18-20something. so he would have had many more years of training and experiance than neji AND he had the cursed seal.
neji is such an asshat for winning
http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mad.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
we don&#39;t know his age. or..... do we? neji is a genius.

[Hotsuma]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pandao @ Jan 29 2004, 11:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> some of the fights were bs,
i dont think neji should have won, i mean he&#39;s 13? and the spider-guy (forgot his name http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif ) is what? 18-20something. so he would have had many more years of training and experiance than neji AND he had the cursed seal.
neji is such an asshat for winning
http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mad.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yeah, I know what you mean. I mean, heck, Neji&#39;s only a developed character with an actual story and background, a distinctive style, and a &quot;type&quot; of character. Whereas, Kidomaru is just some no-name, spur of the moment, villain. Neji should have lost&#33;

[Mgslee]

Well Chap 202 answers the original question very well... I guess this thread is over...

[sangai]

he did become a chuunin after all

[itachi_]

Er? you mean Neji? he didn&#39;t become a chuunin, though he should. Shikamaru became one the only chuunin at this chuunin exam, and there are two each year, so they have more chances of becomming a chuunin.

[Everon]

Dont you remember Itachi? Even if you get into the final tournament there still could be no one who becomes a chunnin. It would be severely bad for a hidden village to say &quot;Hey, he&#39;s not at a chunnin level, but we MUST have two of them become chunnins and risk weakening our clan.&quot; Neji like all the other characters were trying to prove their strength by going all out. And from whats been said, thats not what makes a good Chunnin

[Spydek]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AlbinoFury @ Jan 30 2004, 08:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Neji probably deserves to be a chuunin now, but he has changed alot since the exam, hes much cooler, calmer and more collected now. Before he was rash and pissed off at the world, but then he fought naruto and he changed for the better.

</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
LOL, can you just imagine what kind of leader the &quot;before fighting with Naruto&quot; Neji would have been.

&quot;Mission briefing&quot;:

Neji: &quot;I am a genius and you are all pathethic in your futile attempts to keep up with me. I don&#39;t like any of you, as you are all losers who should accept their fate and give at being more than average ninja.

About today&#39;s mission, we&#39;ll loose to them because they have more gifted ninja then us. Let&#39;s not even try and go home.&quot;

[itachi_]

Hehe, You have read the manga remember the situation with that fat sound ninja, they were trapped and Neji and Shikamaru came up with a exellent idea, Those two are beyond the other genin&#39;s knowledge.

[Shikamaru]

u bitches talkin shit bout me? ok anybody who doesnt think im chuunin material just come and try it.

[Hakeem_21]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (itachi_ &#064; Feb 1 2004, 04:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Hehe, You have read the manga remember the situation with that fat sound ninja, they were trapped and Neji and Shikamaru came up with a exellent idea, Those two are beyond the other genin&#39;s knowledge. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yeah youre right cause if the leaders of the leaf saw the new Neji,they would probaly make him a chuunin. He was smart in the fight agiant the spider guy.

[jing]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Shikamaru @ Feb 1 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> u bitches talkin shit bout me? ok anybody who doesnt think im chuunin material just come and try it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
OH yeah? well YOUR just an academy student with 13 posts http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[sangai]

ok bitch where do you live ill come and beat you down


man shut up and dont be stupid

nicely said jing

lol

[Destroyor]

Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mf_laughbounce2.gif





Now that I&#39;m finish laughing at some of you, hear me out (If you don&#39;t want to just ignore me)

Some of you are confusing fighting abilities with leadership, also confuse cunning with wisdom and clear tactical thinking. (Not to mention coolness to leadership, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhAhA.)

Sorry.

But seriously why did Shikamaru become a chuunin? A chuunin is a team LEADER not the MUSCLE or strong undering, and cunning cannot replace wisdom and clear tactical thinking. A ninja is a military personal, a chuunin is a commander. Can Naruto or Neji command a small team with clear, reasonable, unbiased(Neji is just too emtional where his clan is concern), and sound thinking? How about Shino? Did he ever true plan 3 steps+ ahead the enemy? Kiba, besides using his dog did he ever show an understanding of the situation completely and actually think before he smash something? Lot of genins have POWER, and some even equip with CUNNING. Shikamaru lack power true, and greener then green (translation: inexperience) but he truly plan ahead. He&#39;s resourceful, think ahead and calm plus collected at all times . As a leader one need to think, not being cool or powerful or whatever. Bottom line, the ninja board are looking for BRAIN, not MUSCLE nor COOLNESS FACTOR.

[sangai]

and your right

[DeadalouS]

The whole point in the sound nin vs konoha kids, the sound nins do have level 2 seal, but the konoha kids are from THE best village they are not at the prime of their abilities and therefore the sound nins UNDERESTIMATE their opponent.

1 VERY important point of war is to never underestimate your opponent, i train a little martial arts so no expert, but even a black belt should estimate every opponent to be better than himself and therefore be prepared.

These sound nins doesnt do that, they think that these are just stupid no good kids, well these kids are trained and have had a very rough training.

I find it reasonable, though i think that the new guy in 202 which naruto is gonna fight will be the hardest, since he doesnt underestimate an opponent.

[Raven]

Well said, Destroyor, it&#39;s good to see some people get it.

[Insomniac]

chapter 202 explained this thread

[jing]

Destroyor, there are still contradictions with ur theory. Genma said to sasuke &quot;you are already at a chunnin level, so make yourself usefull as a nin from konoha village&quot;
Genma only saw sasuke&#39;s power, n he decided that hes already at a chunnin level.

edit:its not totally on brains either, raw power contributes aswell. but destroyor you are mostly correct.

[Hotsuma]

I say it&#39;s about 70-30, in brains favor.

Sasuke is definitely not Chuunin, in brains. In leadership, even. Instead of pursuing Gaara, he should have stayed/formed a group to take care of the invaders.

Naruto has strength, but, he&#39;s not a Chuunin. Most of the time, he&#39;s getting his ass kicked, and wins through some comeback.

Neji got emotional, and just talked forever in that match. He also gave up too quickly, since he couldn&#39;t see past his birth right.

Shino, I think would&#39;ve been pretty good as a Chuunin. He led his team well during the forest/

Shikamaru didn&#39;t once panick. He was cool, and reserved the entire time, and read/predicted the opponents mind well, throughout his battle. Then, he realized what his limit was, and quit while he was ahead.

[Destroyor]

Thank you, Thank you all. (wow it&#39;s nice to be acknowledge)



Itachi_ please at least try to backup your claim with some sort of reason(s)/fact/excuse. When had Neji ever display planning/thinking/tactic worthy of a commander? I&#39;m sorry but I don&#39;t see any major flaw with my thinking or any logic behind your thinking at all. If you think I&#39;m wrong then prove me wrong.


About Shino, so far he still haven&#39;et display anything really worthy of becaming a chuunin. Btw he didn&#39;t even get to show off during the final exam so it&#39;s not really surprising that he&#39;s not a chuunin.

[itachi_]

LIKE I SAID BEFORE IN THIS TOPIC, He clearly prooved it when they were trapped inside that wall of stone, neji and shikamaru really prooves that they are worthy chuunin&#39;s they came up with a strategy and were the only active ninjas in that situation kiba, chouji, naruto just stood still and watched, Neji showed us that he can think in a tactical way, and to come up with such a strategy in such situation with low chakra, that&#39;s leadership according to me. He thought of the team survival, and his own life too, of course...

[Hatake Kakashi]

I would post, but I agree with everything that Destroyor said.

As for Genma telling, Sasuke that he is already on the Chuunin level, I think he just means he could stack up well against most of the Chuunin in Konoha. Which is probably true. His techniques are obviously at the Chuunin level too, his best offensive moves are his taijutsu and the Chidori, and those are all pretty high level. So Genma was obviously impressed by him.

Its not like he said, &quot;You pass, go make yourself useful&quot;

[Raven]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (itachi_ @ Feb 2 2004, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> LIKE I SAID BEFORE IN THIS TOPIC, He clearly prooved it when they were trapped inside that wall of stone, neji and shikamaru really prooves that they are worthy chuunin&#39;s they came up with a strategy and were the only active ninjas in that situation kiba, chouji, naruto just stood still and watched, Neji showed us that he can think in a tactical way, and to come up with such a strategy in such situation with low chakra, that&#39;s leadership according to me. He thought of the team survival, and his own life too, of course... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I&#39;m still not convinced about Neji. That particular part that you&#39;re referring to, that was mainly Shikamaru&#39;s idea, Neji mostly went along with it. He didn&#39;t do anything out of the ordinary that any other gennin wouldn&#39;t have done in his situation.

Neji&#39;s too emotional to be a leader in my opinion. He would let his own personal vendetta get in the way of the mission. He has the potential to let his own goals take higher priority than the lives of his teammates.

It&#39;s the same with Sasuke. If Sasuke was a chuunin leader leading a team on a very important mission, and all of a sudden he saw Itachi in the distance, he would say &quot;Screw the mission, I&#39;m going to kill him&#33;&quot;. He&#39;s also too emotional and driven.

[jing]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (itachi_ @ Feb 2 2004, 03:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> LIKE I SAID BEFORE IN THIS TOPIC, He clearly prooved it when they were trapped inside that wall of stone, neji and shikamaru really prooves that they are worthy chuunin&#39;s they came up with a strategy and were the only active ninjas in that situation kiba, chouji, naruto just stood still and watched, Neji showed us that he can think in a tactical way, and to come up with such a strategy in such situation with low chakra, that&#39;s leadership according to me. He thought of the team survival, and his own life too, of course... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
If you give Shikamaru byakugans, he would have thought of the same thing.

[Destroyor]

No, Neji&#39;s insight into Shikamaru&#39;s plan is not due to byakugan. True, he understanded Shikamaru&#39;s plan at the moment when they were trapped but he didn&#39;t plan anything. Even if Neji is capable to be a chuunin at that point, which he isn&#39;t, he&#39;s still not a chuunin simply because he wasn&#39;t ready at the chuunin final exam. He may have grow and mature but that&#39;s after the chuunin exam and that&#39;s the way it is. If you said Neji was cheated out of being a chuunin then please point out something that happened during/before the chuunin exam that was worthy of being a chuunin.

[hiten mitsurugi]

Everyone puts this emphasis about being a chunnin on leadership. See, this is where it bothers me a lot. No, shika is not a great leader as the manga has shown us. The team is disbanded and some team members could be dead. Yes, he&#39;s a brilliant strategist, but without the necessary skills, he is extremely incomplete.

Being a chunnin isn&#39;t all about leadership. What if shika was chosen to join a team with other chunnins and Shika wasn&#39;t chosen to lead the team. Would he be a good support. The answer would be no. Why? Because he lacks firepower. How does this reflect on his chunnin status? Badly, I wouldn&#39;t want someone like that on my team. I would feel more comfortable with Naruto, Neji, or Shino watching my back. Because they &quot;bring it&quot; with them day in day out.


Even as a leader, Shikamaru doesn&#39;t have the skills to get his whole team out of a predicament. Instead they are tattered all over the place.

[Hotsuma]

Hey man, give the kid some credit. It was his first real field mission. And, he said it himself, that he thinks the others might not even be dead.

In the beginning, during Kakashi&#39;s trial exams, he said that sometimes, you gotta make some sacrifices. Personally, I think splitting one leaf to one sound was a good plan. Certain sound members have strengths against certain leaves, so at least you minimize SOME casualities, instead of suffering most, if one sound-nin got a hold of the entire team. Yes, it makes each battle easier to gang up on one enemy, but that won&#39;t single out the sounds strengths VS certain characters.

[Destroyor]

Tsunade make an error of judgement here, Shikmaru&#39;s team was completely outclassed. The best of Sound 4 vs 5 genins? Not exactly good odds on the genins, there are only so much you could do with thinking. Are you saying that if Neji lead he could do better then Shikmaru? For that matter can you name any genin that could lead better then Shikmaru in this situation?

[Insomniac]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Sasuke is definitely not Chuunin, in brains. In leadership, even. Instead of pursuing Gaara, he should have stayed/formed a group to take care of the invaders.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Gaara would have returned as the demon, thats why he left - to regain chakra and then return to the village.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Shino, I think would&#39;ve been pretty good as a Chuunin. He led his team well during the forest</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Shino didnt lead his team, Kiba decided everything basically.

[hiten mitsurugi]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Destroyor @ Feb 2 2004, 09:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Tsunade make an error of judgement here, Shikmaru&#39;s team was completely outclassed. The best of Sound 4 vs 5 genins? Not exactly good odds on the genins, there are only so much you could do with thinking. Are you saying that if Neji lead he could do better then Shikmaru? For that matter can you name any genin that could lead better then Shikmaru in this situation? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I wouldn&#39;t have sent out any gennins. I would have immediately sent out a hunter nin squad. He willfully left and with Konoha in state of disarray that would have been the best method. Remember, Shika did pick the team. He could have picked other chunnins or jounins to join as well. That would have been more beleivable.

Or if he was such a great leader, they have both smell and sight over the sound ninjas. They could have gone ahead and setup traps. Pick off the enemy one by one.

And seriously, once they had their hands on the box, they would have tried to set Sasuke free by destroying it. It&#39;s not as if they know why he&#39;s in the box. At first sight, they may have thought that the box was to restrain Sasuke or kill him, becuase he changed his mind and tried to run away. So set him free and maybe he&#39;ll get up and run back to Konoha or something (easier to carry a person than a box). But no, the characters automatically know not to break the box because of spell or whatever.

[Raven]

When Tsunade was preparing Shika for the mission, I believe she said that the village was short on available chuunins and jounins at that time, so Shika could only pick gennin, or something like that. It&#39;s just Kishimoto&#39;s way of setting up the story for the 5 of them to go on the mission. There will probably be a reason for it later on.

Destroying the container probably would have taken too long in their minds - they didn&#39;t know what jutsus were binding it, or what it was made of, the only objective was to get the hell out of there, so they just grabbed it and ran, no other choice.

[Insomniac]

the container was the only thing keeping Sasuke alive, it dulled the effect of the death to a mild coma

[Destroyor]

Destroying the barrel would be foolhardy, it&#39;s just like pulling a knife out of a deep wound. They don&#39;t know anything about the barrel, so it&#39;s more wise to take the barrel and examine it at a later, safer time. As to why Shikmaru didn&#39;t pick chuunin and Jounin, the reality is that there aren&#39;t any to spare. Setting up trap ahead of the sound 4 when they can&#39;t even catch up? ..... I refuse to further comment on that.

[Hatake Kakashi]

Yeah if they destroy the barrel, they might as well stick a kunai in Sasuke&#39;s heart and save the lumber.

I just think that if they were a little bit quicker, they might have came around the time when the Genma and Raidou were fighting them and they could provide support/steal the barrel then.

2 Jounin +1 Chuunin + 4 Gennin and a dog = Sound 4&#39;s ass being owned.

Genma and Raidou held there own against them pretty well it seemed like, even though they got beat after the guys activated their cursed seals.


Though that would make for one boring storyline.

[itachi_]

Neji is also a commander, you just don&#39;t get it that&#39;s all. He&#39;s as smart as Shikamaru in tactics, not IQ, but tactics and an expert to counter an attack and come up with new strategys, different from naruto who is always using Kage-bushin no-jutsu. He could easily been a chuunin. You have to see behind your way of thinking&#33;

[sangai]

i never said neji couldn&#39;t be a chuunin but he&#39;s to reckless and goes with that predetermined shit he doesn&#39;t have an open mind, when he thought the battle was over he let his gaurd down i dont think shikamaru would do that

[sangai]

the way i looked at it is destroyers right

but when genma said that about sasuke, what i interpreted was hey your as strong as most chuunin go make yourself useful

shikamaru is a thinker so that makes him a chunnin cause he&#39;s a good leader

sasuke is irratic and unpredictable he may do something that could hurt a mission more than help it, he just isn&#39;t cool headed or mature enough to be a team leader or chuunin just be cause he has the streangth

[hiten mitsurugi]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Destroyor &#064; Feb 2 2004, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Destroying the barrel would be foolhardy, it&#39;s just like pulling a knife out of a deep wound. They don&#39;t know anything about the barrel, so it&#39;s more wise to take the barrel and examine it at a later, safer time. As to why Shikmaru didn&#39;t pick chuunin and Jounin, the reality is that there aren&#39;t any to spare. Setting up trap ahead of the sound 4 when they can&#39;t even catch up? ..... I refuse to further comment on that. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
See this is exactly my point, you know what happened to Sasuke, so you can say not to destroy the container (subjective). You are talking as if they knew that there was something suspicious with the barrel. You know this because you read it, the other characters don&#39;t know because they weren&#39;t there. To them it&#39;s just a box.

From an &quot;objective&quot; view:
1. Last you heard (from Sakura) Sasuke had walked off (willingly).
2. Now you see Sasuke in a box. Is it because he changed his mind and ran away. Is the container used to transport him without much fuss. etc.
3. All Neji said was that Sasuke was inside the container. (asleep, I believe)
4. It&#39;s easier to carry a body then an awkward box/barrel.
5. If you wake him up it&#39;s another ally, if he indeed tried to run away from the sounds.

That&#39;s what I&#39;m trying to point out. It&#39;s as if the team knew from the start what the barrel was for etc, etc. And if this is the case what&#39;s the point of asking Kimmimaro what Oro wants Sasuke for. That&#39;s the flaw I&#39;m trying to point out. I know that they couldn&#39;t destroy the container because Sasuke would die, but the team doesn&#39;t.

About setting traps, they had already caught up. The sounds were just finished fighting the two Konoha Jounins. They could have circled ahead and picked them off.

[Destroyor]

You are ignore several obvious.

1) There are strange seal and marking all over the barrel, wouldn&#39;t that alone make a ninja stop and ponder what they meant?

2) Yes it&#39;s easy to carry a body then a barrel, but wouldn&#39;t it be easier for that person to walk? It&#39;s pretty suspicious, what if Sasuke is drug and hold stable in that barrel, thousands of possiblities comes to mind. Why risk breaking it open now instead of a later safer time? What if the barrel was a decoy carrying poison gas? What then?

The barrel is so suspicious it&#39;s just common senses not to open it until at a safer location, say, within konoha border. With help and without enemy around. Even if someone is stupid enough to break it open, is it truly wise? Is it safe for both the opener and Sasuke? Do they even have time? I don&#39;t even think they have the chance to break it open since the sound 4 been on their tail the instant they touch the barrel. Please ... enlighten me to all these staggering questions.


edit: They barely caught up, can they truly risk losing them by circling around and try to set trap with no guarantee they would work? Not one of the genin is a trap master.

[hiten mitsurugi]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Destroyor @ Feb 3 2004, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You are ignore several obvious.

1) There are strange seal and marking all over the barrel, wouldn&#39;t that alone make a ninja stop and ponder what they meant?

2) Yes it&#39;s easy to carry a body then a barrel, but wouldn&#39;t it be easier for that person to walk? It&#39;s pretty suspicious, what if Sasuke is drug and hold stable in that barrel, thousands of possiblities comes to mind. Why risk breaking it open now instead of a later safer time? What if the barrel was a decoy carrying poison gas? What then?

The barrel is so suspicious it&#39;s just common senses not to open it until at a safer location, say, within konoha border. With help and without enemy around. Even if someone is stupid enough to break it open, is it truly wise? Is it safe for both the opener and Sasuke? Do they even have time? I don&#39;t even think they have the chance to break it open since the sound 4 been on their tail the instant they touch the barrel. Please ... enlighten me to all these staggering questions.


edit: They barely caught up, can they truly risk losing them by circling around and try to set trap with no guarantee they would work? Not one of the genin is a trap master. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
1. First, the group we are talking about are genins (shikas first mission as a chunnin). They are not at the level where they know all types of seals. I&#39;m sure that someone like Kakashi may have an Idea. They&#39;re greenhorns. For all they know the seal is meant to keep structural integrity or keep Sasuke asleep for easy transport (tranquilizer seal or what not). Secondly, Naruto is extremely careless. Now your telling me that the loudest, most surprising ninja is going to keep a box that can be smashed in tact. No one gives Naruto any credit, e.g. he&#39;s stupid, lalalala. Now all of a sudden he&#39;s going to be extremely carefull with the box. Very out of character.

2. Neji already stated that it was just Sasuke sleeping in the barrel. Once again your talking about being cautious, a characteristic that Naruto doesn&#39;t have.


I&#39;m not trying to debate on what should have occured. I&#39;m just trying to show you some of the realities of what should of happened, but didn&#39;t because the writers assumed that the characters automatically knew.

[PSJ]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Death BOO Z @ Feb 3 2004, 04:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac &#064; Feb 3 2004, 10:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> if he wasnt arrogant then yes he would </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
it was just his bad luck to get matched against Hinata and Naruto, they both bring out the bad parts of him.

If he was up against someone like Sasuke, Temari, Dosu or anyone else then he would have become a chunin in no time.

just like with Shikamaru, if he was up against someone with superkill jutsus, like Lee&#092;Kiba&#092;Gaara then his shadow bind jutsu would make him seem like a lousy one-trick-pony.

it&#39;s depedns alot about what matchup they get, the&#39;re many ninjas who could get to be a chunin if they hadn&#39;t met someone in forest or if they wouldn&#39;t have quitted in the first exam, that&#39;s why there are two exams each year, so possible chunins won&#39;t have to wait an entire year to get promoted if they just messed up at one thing. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
the fact remains that neji was extremly arrogant. at that point even more than sasuke but after naruto kicked his ass he changed alot too. he now believe in that you can change your fate and arent born into specific roles. beleiving that made him arrogant. and he acted like an allknowing god...

i dont think anybod got ripped on a chuunin title and shikamaru deserves his title the only person that might be good enough brainwise to become chuunin would be temari she used her brains to fight but shikamaru won the battle or the brains and that put a shadow on temari..

[hiten mitsurugi]

Shino got ripped.

[Destroyor]

What&#39;s your point hiten mitsurugi? That Naruto should smash the barrel with unknown strange seal all over it? Or should Shikamaru just became stupid all of a sudden and act rashly then order the barrel open? What? What is your point? That it&#39;s out of character for the 5 genin not to open the barrel? ???????

http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/unsure.gif

[PSJ]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hiten mitsurugi @ Feb 3 2004, 10:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Shino got ripped. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
okay for this time you win, the first and last time you wins HMR.

[Death BOO Z]

actuall, Tsunde didn&#39;t know that the sound has sent out such &#39;elite&#39; forces to get Sasuke, she only knows what Sakura told her, and she guessed that Sasuke will get to a meeting point and then wait for the sound to pick him up, she doesn&#39;t know about the sound four or even about the Naruto&#092;Sasuke hospitial fight.

Shikamaru was instrcuted to take as many genins as he tought that would be required and to get to sasuke before the sound gets to him.


edit: Sand &gt; Sound, sorry.

[Insomniac]

Shikamaru did the best he could with what he was given, most chuunins get to work with other chuunins and jounins on tougher missions but there were none to spare.

If you dont believe that Shikamaru is a chuunin then why are you ignoring all the evidence?
they&#39;ve explained why he became a chuunin and they even explained why he didnt abort the mission..

If Shikamaru had called an abort then the genins would have gone on without him, Shikamaru obviously made the choice to go with their wishes and help out as much as he could - if he had aborted the mission he would have returned alone, i dont know about you but isnt losing your team alot worse then fighting it out beside them?

[itachi_]

Listen&#33;

Neji is just that <u>type</u> of character that fit to be a chuunin.. Just as as Shikamaru is

If you know what i mean, then you&#39;ll understand and you&#39;ll agreed.

[Insomniac]

if he wasnt arrogant then yes he would

[Death BOO Z]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Feb 3 2004, 10:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> if he wasnt arrogant then yes he would </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
it was just his bad luck to get matched against Hinata and Naruto, they both bring out the bad parts of him.

If he was up against someone like Sasuke, Temari, Dosu or anyone else then he would have become a chunin in no time.

just like with Shikamaru, if he was up against someone with superkill jutsus, like Lee&#092;Kiba&#092;Gaara then his shadow bind jutsu would make him seem like a lousy one-trick-pony.

it&#39;s depedns alot about what matchup they get, the&#39;re many ninjas who could get to be a chunin if they hadn&#39;t met someone in forest or if they wouldn&#39;t have quitted in the first exam, that&#39;s why there are two exams each year, so possible chunins won&#39;t have to wait an entire year to get promoted if they just messed up at one thing.

[Daniel of Lorien]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (pandao @ Jan 29 2004, 10:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> some of the fights were bs,
i dont think neji should have won, i mean he&#39;s 13? and the spider-guy (forgot his name http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif ) is what? 18-20something. so he would have had many more years of training and experiance than neji AND he had the cursed seal.
neji is such an asshat for winning
http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mad.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Neji has been training since he was a tiny child... like 3 years old... so 10 years of hard ass training plus awsome bloodline limit... plus he&#39;s super intelegent plus he&#39;s cool... so 1+1+1=10 http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Daniel of Lorien]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Destroyor @ Feb 3 2004, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> What&#39;s your point hiten mitsurugi? That Naruto should smash the barrel with unknown strange seal all over it? Or should Shikamaru just became stupid all of a sudden and act rashly then order the barrel open? What? What is your point? That it&#39;s out of character for the 5 genin not to open the barrel? ???????

http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/unsure.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I can see Naruto busting it open... he can be pretty rash hehe

[Hatake Kakashi]

The only way Sasuke is coming out of the barrel is by his own free will now. I think that somehow he will overcome this coma and break free of this barrier jutsu as well.

Then he and Naruto will kick the shit out of Kimimaro, then fight each other.

[Hotsuma]

Barrel.. at worst, Sasuke will die. But then, he&#39;d deserve to, because of the code of Konoha..or any village. He betrayed his home, therefore, he should die. Not dissing Sasuke or anything, but objectively, that&#39;s what is supposed to be happening.

[Raven]

How the hell did this get from about Shikamaru to the most recent happenings in the manga, specifically the barrel and Kimimaro?

[Hatake Kakashi]

You do realize that you are in the Naruto Manga section of Got Woot right?

[Raven]

I&#39;m just talking about the topic of the thread.... somehow we started talking about the barrel and Kimimaro when we&#39;re supposed to be talking about whether or not Shika is worthy of the chuunin rank.

[Hatake Kakashi]

I&#39;m just saying stuff like this happens a lot here..but if you want to get back to Shikamaru.

He deserves it, he proved it during the exam, when the council picked him to be promoted, I think they know what they are doing better than a bunch of rabid Neji, Shino, Naruto, and Sasuke fanboys on a message board.

Also, he has done the best with what he had to work with recently in the Pursuit Arc, he should continue to do well as a Chuunin.

[Raven]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hatake Kakashi @ Feb 5 2004, 02:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> He deserves it, he proved it during the exam, when the council picked him to be promoted, I think they know what they are doing better than a bunch of rabid Neji, Shino, Naruto, and Sasuke fanboys on a message board.

Also, he has done the best with what he had to work with recently in the Pursuit Arc, he should continue to do well as a Chuunin. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I wholeheartedly agree. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

[villin]

Lets just think about what chuunin level means. From what we&#39;ve seen of chuunins in an actual fight (Iruka/Mizuki) they are pathetically weak. Can you imagine if Iruka was taking the chuunin exam the same time Naruto and co. did. If by some miracle his team made it out of the forest of death then he would have been slaughtered by almost anyone he faced in the prelims. Forget the fact that he would have had no chance against any of the finalists. Therefore, strength is not a significant requirement for becoming a chuunin.

I don&#39;t think anyone would deny the fact that physically Shikamaru is weak. He did prove his intelligence and analysis skills however and this is why he is now a chuunin.

Unfortunatly for Shikamaru, unless he gets alot stronger, he will never become a jounin since you definitly need both intelligence and power to achieve that rank.

[Raven]

We don&#39;t know anything about Iruka, though. For all we know he could be a weak fighter but brilliant tactician who simply decided to settle into a teaching job, similar sort of person to Shika. I can see Shika becoming a teacher, because there wouldn&#39;t be any physical labour involved.

[villin]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CmDr_RavEn @ Feb 5 2004, 04:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> We don&#39;t know anything about Iruka, though. For all we know he could be a weak fighter but brilliant tactician who simply decided to settle into a teaching job, similar sort of person to Shika. I can see Shika becoming a teacher, because there wouldn&#39;t be any physical labour involved. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
That is exactly my point. Intelligence alone is not enough to go beyond the chuunin level, just as power alone is not enough. You must possess both.

[Raven]

But aren&#39;t you also saying that it&#39;s hard to believe that Iruka made it to chuunin level considering the exam? He probably just got through the same way that Shika did. Shika doesn&#39;t have power, but he still made it. It&#39;s probably the same with Iruka.

[villin]

No I&#39;m saying that unless they go through some drastic changes, chuunin is are far as either of them will go. I do think they were both lucky to get through the chuunin exam considering that it seems to favor the nins who rely more on brute strength than intelligence. Can you imagine if Shikamaru had to fight someone like Lee or Neji or Gaara during the prelims. He could not have won any of those fights and thus he would not have had the opportunity to show his talents to the observers in the finals therefore he would not have become chuunin. This is also why Shino doesn&#39;t deserve to be a chuunin. The fighters were not being judged for becoming chuunins in the prelims only in the finals. But since Kishimoto fixed the outcome of everything by being the one who wrote the manga, things pretty much went as he saw fit. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Raven]

Considering how brilliant he is as a strategist, there&#39;s a possibility that he may have come up with ways to beat them. I can&#39;t think of any, but that&#39;s his job, he&#39;s the genius after all. He said that in battles he does plan 100 moves ahead. We&#39;ll have to wait and see how well he does against Tayuya.

And anyway, who says that either of them actually WANT to become jounin? Both of them are probably content as they are.

[villin]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CmDr_RavEn @ Feb 5 2004, 05:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Considering how brilliant he is as a strategist, there&#39;s a possibility that he may have come up with ways to beat them. I can&#39;t think of any, but that&#39;s his job, he&#39;s the genius after all. He said that in battles he does plan 100 moves ahead. We&#39;ll have to wait and see how well he does against Tayuya.

And anyway, who says that either of them actually WANT to become jounin? Both of them are probably content as they are. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I don&#39;t know about Iruka, but I&#39;m pretty sure Shikamaru wouldn&#39;t want to become a jounin. That would be too troublesome. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif

[Raven]

Yeah, I agree. So the problem will probably never arise, it would be too big of a plothole for Kishimoto to work around. And Iruka seems to be happy as a teacher, seeing as he seems to have done it for a few years at least.

*EDIT* Maybe if they do a timejump, Shika will already be a jounin, therefore it never gets explained how he actually manages to get promoted - if strength is indeed required of course, which I think it is.