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Uzumaki Naruto
Wed, 01-21-2004, 03:32 AM
i say that naruto in both the anime and manga is a hardworker, bc he never gives up at wut hes doing and he always manages to com e up with kik ass strategies whenever hes in a battle, but there are other ppls who work just as hard as he does but they give up to easily at wut they are doing

Mgslee
Wed, 01-21-2004, 03:45 AM
Is it just me or does Naruto from the Manga and Naruto from the Anime seem like two different people?

In the anime Naruto struggled is whole child hood working hard trying to pass the exam and get people to recongize him ...

In the manga (and anime as well at points... anime has issues imo) hes a complete slacker like shikamaru ... Didnt try at anything until he really had to (learning of kage bushin and Ransegan) which he did in record time...

Which Naruto do you see? I personally see Naruto as the later, in which if he decides to do something he'll get it done...

Hakeem_21
Wed, 01-21-2004, 04:04 AM
There is only one Naruto thats the hardworking who trains all time to get better.
Didn't you see Hinatas flashback when she saw Naruto training efter day even if he was in pain. The same when he learned the Rasengan,he trained the whole week nonstop despite his hands was in a great deal of pain. When he was training the last stage of Rasengan he didn't even go to sleep in the hotel.Its just like he said to Neji that Shadow replication was his worst move in the academy but he still defeated Neji with it.

You have to remember how bad Naruto was in the begining of the Manga/anime. He couldn't even do one shadow replication. So he has trained a lot to get where he is now in strengt and skill. Just because they dont show him training all the time doesn't mean that he is lazy http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif

*MOD EDIT* - Please don't double post.

Insomniac
Wed, 01-21-2004, 05:07 AM
personally i dont see Naruto as too hard working compared to others, i mean everyone puts in just as much effort as he does.
Lee puts in ALOT more and Neji also.
Neji trains far more then Naruto from what we've seen and he was able to learn the kaiten by himself.

Sasuke knows all the basics of ninja techniques exactly and hes talented with them, got the highest marks in the class - do you think that just comes from sitting in class doing nothing?
Narutos about as hard working as Shikamaru, really with the kyuubi seal reinforced he cant do a whole lot, it was only after Jiyaira unsealed Orochimarus seal it on him that Naruto was of any use.

he relys on the kyuubi alot, he just works till HIS chakra is gone then he relies on the kyuubis.

khaodessy
Wed, 01-21-2004, 06:20 AM
the only person that trains harder then naruto is lee because he has even less talent then naruto. just about everytime they show naruto training its till he cant go no more. even tho neji is a genius he still trains hard mastering and perfecting his skills and abilities unlike a character i wont say but sasuke knows who i talking about. and shikamara isnt really a slacker, hes a super genius so i can under stand why alot of things would be troublesome because the smarter you are and the better you catch on to things the more boring doing things become. the only person that i can say 100% well maybe 99.9% that doesnt train or even has shown that has did even a little training is "drum roll please" sakura. all her skills are still at the academy level. while everyone elses flash backs are about them doing something hers is about sasuke.






i wish people think of a better excuse then well kyubi this and kyubi that. the line where naruto strength and kyubi's was drawn in the second part of the exam. (which one thing gets me is oro seal completely seals off kyubi charka yet naruto still has a healing ability. could that be a seal effect from kyubi being sealed in naruto while he was still a new born)

Hakeem_21
Wed, 01-21-2004, 06:54 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Jan 21 2004, 04:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> personally i dont see Naruto as too hard working compared to others, i mean everyone puts in just as much effort as he does.
Lee puts in ALOT more and Neji also.
Neji trains far more then Naruto from what we&#39;ve seen and he was able to learn the kaiten by himself.

Sasuke knows all the basics of ninja techniques exactly and hes talented with them, got the highest marks in the class - do you think that just comes from sitting in class doing nothing?
Narutos about as hard working as Shikamaru, really with the kyuubi seal reinforced he cant do a whole lot, it was only after Jiyaira unsealed Orochimarus seal it on him that Naruto was of any use.

he relys on the kyuubi alot, he just works till HIS chakra is gone then he relies on the kyuubis. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Just because they show Lee training doesent mean that Naruto trains less than;)
How can you say Neji trains more than Naruto? Just because they showed him training? Im just saying that Naruto must train most of them all with Rock Lee because he has improved most. Can be people stop talking like about Kyubi does everything because Kyubi doesent help Naruto train or make him better ninja,he just gives Naruto more chakra&#33;

Naruto-god
Wed, 01-21-2004, 07:56 AM
The Manga Naruto And the anime naruto is the same to me. Naruto is both a hard working slacker lol whats that a oxymoron.

jing
Wed, 01-21-2004, 08:32 AM
hes a hard worker in BOTH anime and manga. BUT there are MORE hard working people than him.

Insomniac
Wed, 01-21-2004, 08:58 AM
and the more chakra you have the more you can train or use.
i&#39;m saying that everyone whos trained hard has been shown for training hard, we see basically EVERYTHING Naruto does - and he only trained once when taught by Jiyaira.
from what we see all Neji and Lee do is train, they seem to be doing it everytime they&#39;re not at the place (ie before the chuunin exams they&#39;re training, during the month break etc etc etc)

boomorman
Wed, 01-21-2004, 09:06 AM
Naruto seems like a mix between Shik, and Lee. As he gets older the Kyubis Chakra merges more and more with his own making him stronger.

I&#39;d put Naruto at 4th he certainly trains and without a doubt he is driven, but he doesn&#39;t put forth the same effort as others. With age he is inheriting the powers of the kyubi (Oro explained this...along with a few others) He does a quarter of the training of neji and an eighth the training of lee and yet gets twice the results.

What separates Naruto from the others is his drive. Naruto will get beaten to a pulp, be repeatedly knocked down, and still get back up. (yes, in part to the healing he gets from the kyubi) The only one who is more driven then Naruto is Lee.

Training
1. Lee
2. Neji
3. Sasuke
4. Naruto
5. TenTen
6. Kiba

Drive/Purpose
1. Lee
2. Naruto
3. Sasuke
4. Neji
5. Gaara
6. Dosu r.i.p 

Natural Abilities
1. Naruto
2. Gaara
3. Sasuke
4. Neji
5. Hinata
6. Shino

Death BOO Z
Wed, 01-21-2004, 09:38 AM
you&#39;ve totally missed some points, other than LEE, Naruto is the most hardworking guy from the genins.. definataly more than Sasuke, and probably even more than Neji (since we don&#39;t know how much he really trained).

let me refresh your memories.

after the demon brothers fight, we see Naruto talking about how hard he tries and how he partices everyday, it&#39;s the &quot;why is it always me?&quot; scene..

at one of the first volume, there is a picture of naruto&#39;s training scheduale... he runs 10 Km every day (it&#39;s about 7-8 miles), the rest isn&#39;t impressive (only 100 punches to the Kakashi doll, and only 100 push ups&#092;sit ups, which even i do more than that each day), but it still means something..

when they did the tree climbing, naruto stayed there all night and trained, and just to show something, when they started, Sasuke got to do about ten more steps, and after they trained, Naruto reached Sasuke&#39;s level with hard work.

at the Sasuke&#092;Lee fight, Naruto watched the training brusies and told Sasuke that he (Sasuke) lost becuase Lee trained much more than him, it shows that Naruto also believes in hard work...

after that comes the Jirya&#092;Rasengan arcs, which you all remember, so i shouldn&#39;t write them down. just one thing, wasn&#39;t Jirya supposed to talk to Naruto after the hospital fight? Kakashi said that he would talk to Sasuke and that Jirya should speak with Naruto..

BTW: bhaa, now my fingers hurt, i&#39;m writing from my brothers computer, mine&#39;s burnt himself down...


EDIT: Insomniac, don&#39;t you think you&#39;re giving the Kyubi too much credit? this topic isn&#39;t on weather Naruto would be as strong as he is now withouy the kyubi, it&#39;s about the amount of hard work he puts into his training.. the fox just gives him chackra, it doesn&#39;t make him any smarter or makes his ninjutsu better.

and about Sasuke and Neji, they both aren&#39;t hard working types, cuz there are geniuses, so they don&#39;t need to work hard. that&#39;s the whole point of them being geniuses, they try, they succeesed, they move on.

kaigan
Wed, 01-21-2004, 09:54 AM
he&#39;s hardworking when he puts he&#39;s mind to something. after he succeeds, then he slacks off. but the naruto now is way way better and stronger than the naruto that we new at the beginning.

he&#39;s more serious about things and knows what he needs to do.

ricefarmer
Wed, 01-21-2004, 10:21 AM
how da hell can u put naruto in the same category as shika?? he&#39;s not lazy at all and strive to be hokage for cryin out loud.. when the hell did he ever slacked off? never.. and somebody already pointed out all his hard work. he always begs jiraiya to teach him cuz he yerns for more.... can&#39;t believe these poeple... making up lies.. idiots stop watching naruto aite? do us a favor... and yes lee does work harder den he does... but he special. the point of naruto is to be reconzied thats why he tries alot idiot...

OshadowO
Wed, 01-21-2004, 10:45 AM
they&#39;re about the same if you ask me. Though sometimes the anime naruto seems like a bigger clown but I think thats just because of the animation enhcancing the character.

as for kyubi being his bail out I don&#39;t see how its any different from Sharingan and Byakugan which could also be considered bailouts.

Insomniac
Thu, 01-22-2004, 02:41 AM
Naruto IS to an extent a hard worker, but no more then Sasuke at least.

Neji and Lee both surpass him in hard work as Naruto even had hints on how to do the rasengen and a teacher - Neji learnt the kaiten all by HIMSELF.
He also learnt how to see the chakra points in bodies by himself, Lee worked twice as hard as Neji but Neji worked twice as hard as Naruto.

you cant say just because they&#39;re genius&#39;s means they dont work.
Sasuke constantly trains to be stronger then his brother, when hes not on a mission hes training. The only nins you can say dont train as Shino and Gaara basically.

the point is that Naruto isnt as much of a hard worker as people make him out to be, he only works hard when theres a deadline, otherwise he slacks off.
in both situations he was working against a deadline - Rasengen in a week and the few days training before Zabuza made his reappearance, oh and also the month before the chuunin exams.
The ONLY time Naruto starts training is when theres a deadline to be met.

OshadowO
Thu, 01-22-2004, 03:14 AM
^i guess now we&#39;re debating ands and ifs cos the series portrays that Naruto works against all odds and works hard to overcome them. It never really suggests how hard the others work aside from Lee who probably does work harder.

I guess you could probably make a case for Sasuke being as hard a worker as Naruto based on the tree sticking training and then pre chunin exam stuff. He had kakashi teach him chidori, Naruto had Jiraiya teach him rasengan.

Neji well he&#39;s in a class of his own. I can&#39;t recall if they ever showed him training other than the few obligatory bits where tenten tosses knives at him and misses (as usual). Even though he did figure out a lot of the moves by himself doesn&#39;t mean he put in more tiime than sasuke or naruto though. I mean a genius means things should be easier for him:/

We can all settle on one thing though. Shikamaru is a lazy ass and sakura is useless http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif

Insomniac
Thu, 01-22-2004, 03:37 AM
Sakura is infact a genius too, shows that being a genius doesnt get you far if you dont train.

Hakeem_21
Thu, 01-22-2004, 03:48 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Jan 22 2004, 01:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Naruto IS to an extent a hard worker, but no more then Sasuke at least.

Neji and Lee both surpass him in hard work as Naruto even had hints on how to do the rasengen and a teacher - Neji learnt the kaiten all by HIMSELF.
He also learnt how to see the chakra points in bodies by himself, Lee worked twice as hard as Neji but Neji worked twice as hard as Naruto.

you cant say just because they&#39;re genius&#39;s means they dont work.
Sasuke constantly trains to be stronger then his brother, when hes not on a mission hes training. The only nins you can say dont train as Shino and Gaara basically.

the point is that Naruto isnt as much of a hard worker as people make him out to be, he only works hard when theres a deadline, otherwise he slacks off.
in both situations he was working against a deadline - Rasengen in a week and the few days training before Zabuza made his reappearance, oh and also the month before the chuunin exams.
The ONLY time Naruto starts training is when theres a deadline to be met. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Neji and Sasuke are geniuses of course they will get better result earlier in training than Naruto and Lee. Thats why Naruto and Lee trains a lot more than them to keep up.Neji may a hardworker now because before Naruto kicked his ass he thougt that hardworker cant do anything agianst a genius.

Jman
Thu, 01-22-2004, 03:56 AM
Sakura a genius?&#33;? Far from it. She may excel in using genjutsu &amp; have good chakra control but that doesn&#39;t set her above the rest of em. Now Neji&#39;s Kaiten and Lee opening the gates, now that is genius.

AlbinoFury
Thu, 01-22-2004, 04:07 AM
naruto trains all the time they just dont show it, i mean what else does he have to do? hang out with his family? nope. hang out with his friends? nope. he trains all the dam time they just dont show it cause that would make the series boring if half of every episode was him doing pushups.

Jman
Thu, 01-22-2004, 04:21 AM
I&#39;d say that Naruto&#39;s very persistent as far as having the drive to go after his dream of becoming hokage but I wouldn&#39;t say that he&#39;s more of a hard worker than all the other nins. Compared to the others he may train just as hard as everyonelse with a few exceptions. Now Lee is a true genius of hard work. Naruto&#39;s also has a &quot;cushion&quot; (kyubi chakra) so to me, he doesn&#39;t really have to work as hard as the others.
Yes he does/did train a lot
Training Naruto Was Involved In:
Training For Genin Exam I think Naruto is the only one in his team that actually trained the night before the Genin Exam with Kakashi. Naruto did situps, several muscle exercises and beat up a plush look-alike of Kakashi.

Climbing Trees - When Kakashi knew Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke didn’t have much experience with Chakra, Kakashi made them climb giant trees to help with their chakra development. It took Naruto a few days to get on top of the tree without falling but he did it. Thanks to angered motivation from Sasuke, he learned better control with his Chakra through this exercise.

Training For Chunnin Exam Final Tournament With Pervert Sennin - When Naruto was training for his fight with Neji in the Chunnin Exam Finals, he met Pervert Sennin. Pervert Sennin taught Naruto a few new things about Chakra control, he also taught him how to use Summoning No Jutsu. (Which came in handy in Naruto’s final battle with Gaara)

Training With Pervert-Sennin to learn the Rasegan Jutsu This training required Naruto to use his mind. It took a lot of steps to learn this Jutsu and each step was harder than the last. It’s an advanced Jutsu that allows Naruto to send people flying with his Chakra. It took Naruto a lot of patience and stress but he has successfully mastered this jutsu
---------------

Sasuke
Training Style
Sasuke is the very opposite of Naruto. His dark soul pushes him into new heights. His passions for killing his brother, Itachi, makes him train hard. Sasuke isn’t shown training that much in the series but it is known he has gone through extensive training and he is very powerful for his age.

Training Sasuke Was Involved In (Shown In The Series):
Climbing Trees - Like Naruto, Sasuke had to climb trees in order to balance his Chakra better. Sasuke pushed himself to climb trees faster than Naruto. Sasuke took breaks during his training while Naruto went training non-stop. Even so, he completed climbing the giant tree the same time Naruto did. After this training, he became stronger and that was shown when he had his fight with Haku.

Training For Chunnin Exam Final Tournament With Kakashi…TO MASTER THE CHIDORI TECHNIQUE&#33; - When Orochimaru was after Sasuke with a passion, Kakashi taught Sasuke how to perform the “Chidori” (Also Called Lighting Edge) Jutsu. The Chidori technique requires several precise hand seals as well as a great deal of Chakra focus. It has the power to pull things into oblivion, as well as light things on fire. It took lots of hardwork but thanks to Kakashi, Sasuke mastered the Chidori Jutsu.

-------------------
Neji
Training Style
Neji is without a doubt, a dedicated individual. In the manga, he’s shown training a lot. He usually trains outside, practicing the Byukugan or other new techniques he wishes to use in battle.
-------------------

Rock Lee
Training Style
The most dedicated trainer in the series&#33; Rock Lee is always training in his spare time and he only desires to become as strong as his idol, Gai. Rock Lee is known for an obsession with training, and Rock Lee always sets goals for himself. (Example: “If I can do 200 pushups, Sakura will like me&#33;”) Rock Lee always improves his strength and skills with his training and that makes him a force to reckon with.

nark
Thu, 01-22-2004, 06:25 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (khaodessy @ Jan 21 2004, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> the only person that trains harder then naruto is lee because he has even less talent then naruto. just about everytime they show naruto training its till he cant go no more. even tho neji is a genius he still trains hard mastering and perfecting his skills and abilities unlike a character i wont say but sasuke knows who i talking about. and shikamara isnt really a slacker, hes a super genius so i can under stand why alot of things would be troublesome because the smarter you are and the better you catch on to things the more boring doing things become. the only person that i can say 100% well maybe 99.9% that doesnt train or even has shown that has did even a little training is &quot;drum roll please&quot; sakura. all her skills are still at the academy level. while everyone elses flash backs are about them doing something hers is about sasuke.






i wish people think of a better excuse then well kyubi this and kyubi that. the line where naruto strength and kyubi&#39;s was drawn in the second part of the exam. (which one thing gets me is oro seal completely seals off kyubi charka yet naruto still has a healing ability. could that be a seal effect from kyubi being sealed in naruto while he was still a new born) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
u forgot gaara, he prolly didnt train a day in his life. Prolly less so than sakura.

khaodessy
Thu, 01-22-2004, 07:19 AM
it was already said by gaara that his father taught him all the serects of his village at a young age.

i see every agrees that no one trains harder then lee just where everyone else lye is the discussion. given the examples of comparing there way of training how can anyone say sasuke trains just as much as naruto. mr deadlast vs #1 rookie goin from being the worst in his class (and from how the juunins made it seem one of the worst in the village history) to the same lvl and then surpassing takes alot of training. after the chuunin exam i would say that everyone started to train alot more then b4 since just about all of them wants to be stronger then naruto. other then lee i can see neji training just as much as naruto.

Chaz
Thu, 01-22-2004, 07:54 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (boomorman @ Jan 21 2004, 08:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Naruto seems like a mix between Shik, and Lee. As he gets older the Kyubis Chakra merges more and more with his own making him stronger.

I&#39;d put Naruto at 4th he certainly trains and without a doubt he is driven, but he doesn&#39;t put forth the same effort as others. With age he is inheriting the powers of the kyubi (Oro explained this...along with a few others) He does a quarter of the training of neji and an eighth the training of lee and yet gets twice the results.

What separates Naruto from the others is his drive. Naruto will get beaten to a pulp, be repeatedly knocked down, and still get back up. (yes, in part to the healing he gets from the kyubi) The only one who is more driven then Naruto is Lee.

Training
1. Lee
2. Neji
3. Sasuke
4. Naruto
5. TenTen
6. Kiba

Drive/Purpose
1. Lee
2. Naruto
3. Sasuke
4. Neji
5. Gaara
6. Dosu r.i.p 

Natural Abilities
1. Naruto
2. Gaara
3. Sasuke
4. Neji
5. Hinata
6. Shino </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yes, but you forget Naruto CAN train harder. The Kyubis Chakra overflows into his giving him more chakra, and making his chakra refill faster. Chakra is used in all ninja actions ninjutsu, genjutsu, taijutsu. No one else has as much chakra as Naruto so Naruto can train the hardest. It’s easier for Naruto to train because he isn&#39;t limited like everyone else. Plus he doesn’t need to worry about damaging his body because he automatically heals. Naruto will be the strongest very soon.

Sasuke's Goddess
Thu, 01-22-2004, 08:47 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ricefarmer &#064; Jan 21 2004, 08:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>how da hell can u put naruto in the same category as shika?? he&#39;s not lazy at all and strive to be hokage for cryin out loud.. when the hell did he ever slacked off? never.. and somebody already pointed out all his hard work. he always begs jiraiya to teach him cuz he yerns for more.... can&#39;t believe these poeple... making up lies.. idiots stop watching naruto aite? do us a favor... and yes lee does work harder den he does... but he special. the point of naruto is to be reconzied thats why he tries alot idiot...</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Hem, not to be rude, but do us all a favor and learn to spell and use grammar.

My two cents is that Naruto, while a dedicated person, pales in comparison to Lee and Neji. They just seem to have more inspiration.

Mgslee
Thu, 01-22-2004, 11:23 AM
In the anime, Naruto is protrayed as a hard working type and it shows that hes really working hard... however the manga naruto seems different to me.

first off Naruto learned Kage bushin in a single night yet failed doing henge bushin three years in a row... You&#39;d really think he&#39;d work on henge after failing for the first time IF he was a hard worker...

Another example, Naruto and sasuke doing tree climbing... Its not showing hes a hard worker, its showing hes driven to beat sasuke ...

Basically Naruto does training cause he has to for some reason. I dont think we&#39;ve ever seen Naruto train just for the sake of it... (ie: &quot;No I dont want Ramen, I must train to better myself...)

I perfer to see Naruto as a determined character then a hard working type any way ... a hard worker type seems a bit boring, a determined character is willing to put everything on the line to do something, sounds more interesting to me&#33;

Note: I dont like the naruto persona in the anime... they make him out to be a really dumb kid who hasnt grown up... but in the manga after the zabuza arc, Naruto changed (from a prankster to a dedicated person) IMO

Hakeem_21
Thu, 01-22-2004, 11:30 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Jan 22 2004, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Sakura is infact a genius too, shows that being a genius doesnt get you far if you dont train. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
When did they say that she is a genius? If she dont have a very speciel abillity,she is the worst genius ever;)

Insomniac
Fri, 01-23-2004, 03:09 AM
Yes thats what i was saying, Naruto only trains when he really HAS to. He only does it to reach a short time goal, all the time.
Hes never just trained for the sake of training, its been to beat someone or change someones mind on him.

Neji constantly trains to be better and stronger for the longterm and so does Lee - they dont just make short term goals to meet.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>When did they say that she is a genius? If she dont have a very speciel abillity,she is the worst genius ever;) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

you think that every genius must have special powers? this isnt DBZ, Sakuras genius lays in her potential to read through jutsus and genjutsu.
Shes not exactly &#39;weak&#39; shes just a master of the basic jutsus which means she doesnt have one huge finishing move.
Naruto knows nothing of the basics and hes failed at learning them every time but he still hasnt learnt him

simply put

Naruto takes short cuts.

boomorman
Fri, 01-23-2004, 03:27 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dazzz @ Jan 23 2004, 02:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (boomorman &#064; Jan 21 2004, 08:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Natural Abilities* * * * *
1. Naruto
2. Gaara
3. Sasuke
4. Neji
5. Hinata
6. Shino </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
sorry but your list is completely out of order. naruto has ZERO natural abilities. he is definitely a hardworker, but he would not have gotten anything done if it wasn&#39;t for the kyubi chakra.

gaara also has ZERO natural abilities. the sand demon or whatever was put inside of him. it didn&#39;t happen naturally.

i don&#39;t care about shino.

i don&#39;t even know why you put hinata on the list. compared to neji, she sucks at being a hyuga.

neji and sasuke are the real ones with amazing natural abilites. sasuke has more natural potential in him than anyone in the manga so far. he is just a late bloomer that&#39;s all.

EDIT: ok, saying naruto and gaara having zero natural abilities is too much, they have some. but they certainly aren&#39;t on the top of the list. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Perhaps I should have worded it Base line abilities? Or inherited powers?

Naruto has the kyubi. He gets instant healing from it so he can continue training when others would be forced to stop or die. Also he has unlimited Chakra to use for learning jutsus.

Gaara has a demon of sorts granting him powers, and protecting him, and he can transform into it.. I guess.

Sasuke Even before he developed the sharigan was an unusually fast learner.

Neji. Very skilled and a powerful bloodline.

Hinata: Hinata up to this point has put very very little effort forth in her training, and yet she’s still the strongest female genin. She just doesn’t have the fighting edge needed.

I guess you could switch Neji and Sasuke around depending on your view of the bloodlines. Well that was my reasoning.

Trip
Fri, 01-23-2004, 03:32 AM
not directly on topic, but I found it interesting when the anime showed the whole bull chase scene before the tournement, where Naruto used up a LOT of chakara, take that into account, then the Neji fight, and the Gara fight, naruto has a lot of chakara, probally more than any other character in the series.

On topic, Naruto a hard worker? yea i think he is, but didn&#39;t respect his teachers untill after the events in the first ep (where the teacher give him the forehead protector after saving him) before I assume he would have trained in his own way, while not specifically good (which showed in his exam results) helped him build up his chakara levels, after he started to train as taught, and has become much better because of it.

Insomniac
Fri, 01-23-2004, 03:48 AM
just because he uses up alot of chakra doesnt mean hes a hard worker, just means hes got more chakra to use up.
he isnt a hard worker hes just a last minute worker, he does everything when theres little time left

the fact that he works hard when theres a time limit doesnt mean hes a hard worker, a hard worker constantly works hard, no matter whats going on.
Hard workers dont just work hard when it suits them, they spend their life working - not eating ramen

Mut
Fri, 01-23-2004, 03:58 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (boomorman &#064; Jan 21 2004, 08:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Natural Abilities
1. Naruto
2. Gaara
3. Sasuke
4. Neji
5. Hinata
6. Shino </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
sorry but your list is completely out of order. naruto has ZERO natural abilities. he is definitely a hardworker, but he would not have gotten anything done if it wasn&#39;t for the kyubi chakra.

gaara also has ZERO natural abilities. the sand demon or whatever was put inside of him. it didn&#39;t happen naturally.

i don&#39;t care about shino.

i don&#39;t even know why you put hinata on the list. compared to neji, she sucks at being a hyuga.

neji and sasuke are the real ones with amazing natural abilites. sasuke has more natural potential in him than anyone in the manga so far. he is just a late bloomer that&#39;s all.

EDIT: ok, saying naruto and gaara having zero natural abilities is too much, they have some. but they certainly aren&#39;t on the top of the list.

Insomniac
Fri, 01-23-2004, 04:07 AM
Hinata has no abilties at all, shes probably weaker then Sakura.
i dont know why anyone would think shes got abilties from what we&#39;ve seen - all shes done was get beaten on.

&#39;natural&#39; abilities mean you were born with them, Naruto and Gaara have artificial abilities stemming from their demons put into them just after birth.

take the demons out of both of them and they&#39;re alot weaker, take the sharigan out of Sasuke and hes still got alot of natural talent.

Shino also doesnt have any natural abilities other then the capicity to control bugs with his body - he wasnt born with the bugs inside him.

alot of the artificial ability characters are only stronger because of their (lets call them) &#39;implants&#39;

while the characters might have other lesser abilities its their implants that force them to be stronger, and just by having those implants they&#39;re able to grow naturally faster.

Its like the way drugs will increase performance (ignoring the downfalls) and even when you&#39;ve stopped using them your body is stronger from having done so, thats the way the kyuubi chakra works.

Natural abilities are there in your DNA from the beginning of your creation http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

moridin
Fri, 01-23-2004, 06:32 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Jan 23 2004, 03:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Hinata has no abilties at all, shes probably weaker then Sakura.
i dont know why anyone would think shes got abilties from what we&#39;ve seen - all shes done was get beaten on.

&#39;natural&#39; abilities mean you were born with them, Naruto and Gaara have artificial abilities stemming from their demons put into them just after birth.

take the demons out of both of them and they&#39;re alot weaker, take the sharigan out of Sasuke and hes still got alot of natural talent.

Shino also doesnt have any natural abilities other then the capicity to control bugs with his body - he wasnt born with the bugs inside him.

alot of the artificial ability characters are only stronger because of their (lets call them) &#39;implants&#39;

while the characters might have other lesser abilities its their implants that force them to be stronger, and just by having those implants they&#39;re able to grow naturally faster.

Its like the way drugs will increase performance (ignoring the downfalls) and even when you&#39;ve stopped using them your body is stronger from having done so, thats the way the kyuubi chakra works.

Natural abilities are there in your DNA from the beginning of your creation http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Considering Naruto didn&#39;t ask for a demon to be placed into him, I don&#39;t understand how you are counting that against him. Also, remember, during the second exam, the seal was placed on him so he was unable to utilize Kyuubi&#39;s chakra. Also consider up until the event with Haku, he had never used that chakra before. I don&#39;t understand the vendetta you have against him but you should consider at the very least the aforementioned facts.

I agree we see Hinata being beat down. Think about who she faced though. She fought against Neji, argueably one of the strongest Genins in the entire series. You expect her to win against him? Honestly, the only three I expect to even have a chance against him are Rock Lee, Naruto, and Sasuke.

Sasuke and Neji both have &quot;natural abilities,&quot; as you put it, that give them a HUGE advantage over the other &quot;normal ninjas,&quot; though I really don&#39;t understand how you can call their abilities natural...

Naruto&#39;s ability without Kyuubi is probably above Sasuke&#39;s. He is able to produce Rasengan without Kyuubi&#39;s chakra (this is what I believe, argue all you want about whether or not he really used his own chakra).

That entire list is labeled wrong. It should be Natural Potential.

Back to the Naruto being a hardworker original thread...

When Hinata flashes back during her fight, she remembers Naruto training hard enough throwing kunais to collapse...is that not hard work? You say he only trains when there is a deadline or there is a reason too but isn&#39;t that like everyone else? Rock Lee only trains because he wants to prove that one can be a great Ninja without Genjutsu and Ninjutsu. Furthermore, Naruto has a reason to train. He wants to become the next Hokage. Whenever the manga shows Naruto training, he trains until he can&#39;t move anymore. I&#39;m sorry but you don&#39;t get that kind of dedication instantaneously. He is obviously transferring his dedication from regular training to more specialized training.

khaodessy
Sat, 01-24-2004, 03:20 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moridin @ Jan 23 2004, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac &#064; Jan 23 2004, 03:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Hinata has no abilties at all, shes probably weaker then Sakura.
i dont know why anyone would think shes got abilties from what we&#39;ve seen - all shes done was get beaten on.

&#39;natural&#39; abilities mean you were born with them, Naruto and Gaara have artificial abilities stemming from their demons put into them just after birth.

take the demons out of both of them and they&#39;re alot weaker, take the sharigan out of Sasuke and hes still got alot of natural talent.

Shino also doesnt have any natural abilities other then the capicity to control bugs with his body - he wasnt born with the bugs inside him.

alot of the artificial ability characters are only stronger because of their (lets call them) &#39;implants&#39;

while the characters might have other lesser abilities its their implants that force them to be stronger, and just by having those implants they&#39;re able to grow naturally faster.

Its like the way drugs will increase performance (ignoring the downfalls) and even when you&#39;ve stopped using them your body is stronger from having done so, thats the way the kyuubi chakra works.

Natural abilities are there in your DNA from the beginning of your creation http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Considering Naruto didn&#39;t ask for a demon to be placed into him, I don&#39;t understand how you are counting that against him. Also, remember, during the second exam, the seal was placed on him so he was unable to utilize Kyuubi&#39;s chakra. Also consider up until the event with Haku, he had never used that chakra before. I don&#39;t understand the vendetta you have against him but you should consider at the very least the aforementioned facts.

I agree we see Hinata being beat down. Think about who she faced though. She fought against Neji, argueably one of the strongest Genins in the entire series. You expect her to win against him? Honestly, the only three I expect to even have a chance against him are Rock Lee, Naruto, and Sasuke.

Sasuke and Neji both have &quot;natural abilities,&quot; as you put it, that give them a HUGE advantage over the other &quot;normal ninjas,&quot; though I really don&#39;t understand how you can call their abilities natural...

Naruto&#39;s ability without Kyuubi is probably above Sasuke&#39;s. He is able to produce Rasengan without Kyuubi&#39;s chakra (this is what I believe, argue all you want about whether or not he really used his own chakra).

That entire list is labeled wrong. It should be Natural Potential.

Back to the Naruto being a hardworker original thread...

When Hinata flashes back during her fight, she remembers Naruto training hard enough throwing kunais to collapse...is that not hard work? You say he only trains when there is a deadline or there is a reason too but isn&#39;t that like everyone else? Rock Lee only trains because he wants to prove that one can be a great Ninja without Genjutsu and Ninjutsu. Furthermore, Naruto has a reason to train. He wants to become the next Hokage. Whenever the manga shows Naruto training, he trains until he can&#39;t move anymore. I&#39;m sorry but you don&#39;t get that kind of dedication instantaneously. He is obviously transferring his dedication from regular training to more specialized training. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
i totally agree also you have to take into account that the naruto at the beginning was obsessed with getting attenion. so ya back then he was a slacker, but now naruto is a hard worker. so he has trouble doing the basics but like jaraiya said naruto teacherings should of been different. now anything that will make him stronger he would do because not only does he still want to be hokage he also has a group after him which he knows he will face in the future so he has to prepare for them. so naruto does have a reason other then to be hokage to train.

The Kyubi Naruto
Sat, 01-24-2004, 04:58 AM
Oh I think that extreme lazyness is required to practise chakra control (the tree climbing) all night long. And since Naruto is a fat slob he just bothered to try and see if he could learn kage bunshin and Rasengan (he is actually super genious)

So that brings me to the conclusion that Naruto is actually Shikamaru/Choji, combined with a fatgenious kuchiyose no jutsu, (was that correct? I just pulled it from thin air) in diguise.




NOT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Of course Naruto is th hardworking type (these days) now that he has understood the reality and has now much more sense, determination and has grown much.
Yes he was a slacker, but he did a marvellous recovery into a hardworkaholic.

Oh and yeah right. Hinata must be weaker than Sakura&#33; HELLOOOO... THIS IS RELITY TALKING ( http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif )&#33;&#33;&#33; Sakura tied with Ino, but she would have been beaten in the same second she started a fight with Neji. Hinata has the Byakugan and the fighting style as all the Gyuga do. I think Sakura would be beaten to a pulp&#33;

Oh and I recall that the Demon inside of Gaara was placed into him before he was born. (just what I recall, not sure)

Mgslee
Sat, 01-24-2004, 06:52 AM
Being strong and a hard worker type are completly different

If Naruto was a hard worker type, he would never always be asking someone to surpurvise him to give him pointers when doing whatever exercise...

In the manga, you never ever seen Naruto training on his own. Remember the arc would looking for Tsunade? Naruto was constantly asking Jiriyia to train him (by telling him what to do), he wouldnt just do it on his own

Naruto is strong as hell and defiently has the most growth potential but hes still a slacker looking for the fastest way possible to get stronger.

OshadowO
Sat, 01-24-2004, 08:39 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mgslee @ Jan 24 2004, 02:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Being strong and a hard worker type are completly different

If Naruto was a hard worker type, he would never always be asking someone to surpurvise him to give him pointers when doing whatever exercise...

In the manga, you never ever seen Naruto training on his own. Remember the arc would looking for Tsunade? Naruto was constantly asking Jiriyia to train him (by telling him what to do), he wouldnt just do it on his own

Naruto is strong as hell and defiently has the most growth potential but hes still a slacker looking for the fastest way possible to get stronger. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
OK I&#39;m sorry but what does being trained by someone have to do with not being a hardworker? If anything training by yourself is like reinventing the wheel.
You learn from others what those before them taught them and you apply that and practise that. That is hardwork.
While you&#39;re doing that you occasionaly come up with your own twists and ways of doing things which is alright too but iif you had no teachers and no one to learn from you&#39;d be way behind those who did.

I&#39;m using you as a way of saying not meaning you specifically btw http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

Mgslee
Sat, 01-24-2004, 08:53 AM
If your constantly asking for help your not neccesarily a hardworker its just a smarter thing to do.

Being smart and a hardworker are defiently different things.

Who would be the harder worker in the following situation?
personA ) Spends 3 years trying to create the better mouse trap on there own
personB ) Does some research and makes a better mouse trap in a month

Someone who is willing to &quot;reinvent the wheel&quot; (This is Neji) is defiently a harder working type then someone just looking for answers (Naruto)

Hakeem_21
Sat, 01-24-2004, 10:29 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (boomorman @ Jan 23 2004, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [QUOTE=dazzz,Jan 23 2004, 02:58 AM] [QUOTE=boomorman,Jan 21 2004, 08:06 AM]


Naruto has the kyubi. He gets instant healing from it so he can continue training when others would be forced to stop or die. Also he has unlimited Chakra to use for learning jutsus.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
He doesent use fox chakra when he trains ,he only uses the fox chakra when he is in real trouble like the fight against Neji and the fight agianst Gaara. Did you see him use the foxs chakra when he learned Rasengan? If he could use the Kyubi to learn things then he would be like Sasuke sharingan and learn stuff in short time&#33;
The Kyubi isnt like sharingan its just gives you a strong chakra&#33;

Virtual
Sat, 01-24-2004, 11:05 AM
if im correct sasuke also is lookin for a shortcut to get stronger http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/huh.gif

Hakeem_21
Sat, 01-24-2004, 11:13 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Virtual @ Jan 24 2004, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> if im correct sasuke also is lookin for a shortcut to get stronger http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/huh.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yeah its sasuke that is lazy and the only time he trains is when he copied something like the Chidori http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif If he was a hardworker he would become stronger with his will like Naruto and Rock Lee.

Virtual
Sun, 01-25-2004, 02:00 AM
ill also agree with moridin

Mgslee
Sun, 01-25-2004, 03:34 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hakeem_21 @ Jan 24 2004, 08:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah its sasuke that is lazy and the only time he trains is when he copied something like the Chidori http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif If he was a hardworker he would become stronger with his will like Naruto and Rock Lee. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
No no and no

Sasuke was a hard worker from the beginning of the series always looking to get stronger. Hes also smart enough to take the short cuts when they become available ... You dont have to work hard to get stronger.

The whole saying of &quot;work smarter not harder&quot; defiently applies to this series.

Considering the few times Sasuke has had time to train in the series hes defiently improved alot...

Virtual
Sun, 01-25-2004, 03:58 AM
i think if u were to talk about being a genius and saying how neji and sasuke and how that connects them to being hard workers, then cant we say that itachi would be there to?

i mean i can understand if he wasnt on the list because it never really tells us about his training or anything from what i remember, but i would think he is

Hotsuma
Sun, 01-25-2004, 04:24 AM
Naruto has no natural ability. The KYUUBI isn&#39;t a natural ability. It&#39;s a totally seperate entity that resides within him. You can&#39;t say it&#39;s &quot;Naruto&#39;s&quot; like you can say the Byakugan is Nejis, and Sharingan is Sasuke&#39;s. The Kyuubi and Naruto are two different characters.

Naruto sucks, when compared to people like Neji and Sasuke. He won a fight ,but overall, Sasuke and Neji are still mountains ahead of him, in terms of potential. Naruto has more raw power, but he&#39;s such a fool, that he can&#39;t begin to comprehend just how much more effectively it can be used. He just does everything so rashly, that he _needs_ that extra bit of power to even survive, ratio-wise when compared to the other people. If he were to have the same amount of raw power like, say... Sasuke, he&#39;d die.

That&#39;s my take on things.

Neji and Sasuke are, however naturally gifted people.

OshadowO
Sun, 01-25-2004, 04:56 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mgslee @ Jan 24 2004, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If your constantly asking for help your not neccesarily a hardworker its just a smarter thing to do.

Being smart and a hardworker are defiently different things.

Who would be the harder worker in the following situation?
personA ) Spends 3 years trying to create the better mouse trap on there own
personB ) Does some research and makes a better mouse trap in a month

Someone who is willing to &quot;reinvent the wheel&quot; (This is Neji) is defiently a harder working type then someone just looking for answers (Naruto) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Well it seems you agree that its kinda dumb to keep trying to reinvent the wheel all the time..so to say:/

I still would argue that being a smart worker doesn&#39;t discount you as a hard worker. All it means is if you work smart and hard you&#39;re going to surge ahead of the guy who&#39;s just an hard worker.

After all person B who created the mouse trap in a month can apply himself and start a whole production line of mouse traps and eradicate all mice in 3 yrs by the time person A is done.

Actually I&#39;m not sure what we&#39;re debating anymore lol http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

moridin
Sun, 01-25-2004, 05:00 AM
Question: Did you just totally miss his fights in the 2nd Chuunin Exam, against Neji, against Zabuza, against Kabuto, as well as Gaara?

He is powerful, agreed, and he is rash, but he is something on the level of a fighting genius. He can&#39;t think 100 steps ahead like Shikamaru or even 50 like Neji, Sasuke, and Shino are at, but he is absolutely a genius at thinking up on the fly strategies. In the fight against Zabuza&#39;s Water Clone, that was HIS strategy, not Sasuke&#39;s that freed Kakashi. In the second Chuunin exam, he took the initiative and spent the ENTIRE night fighting with his clones disguised as his teammates. Against Neji, he thought up the strategy on the fly, after being hit by a force greater than what he hit Neji with (because of the reciprocation of the force hitting Kaiten) and beats him. Against Kabuto, he thinks to use the 3 clones to keep Kabuto still while using Rasengan (a strategy which was unforeseen by both Kabuto and Tsunade). Against Gaara, the Naruto Clone Body Slam was a pretty good way of getting behind Gaara (as a half demon freak), even if it didn&#39;t do much damage.

As to asking for help meaning that someone is not a hard worker...that&#39;s a load of bull. Anyone who only relies on themselves to come up with the answer is an absolute retard. The reason that we are educated is because it leads to GREATER advancement if we learn what has already been learned by someone else. Hard work means you work hard, not that you don&#39;t ask for help.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Who would be the harder worker in the following situation?
personA ) Spends 3 years trying to create the better mouse trap on there own
personB ) Does some research and makes a better mouse trap in a month</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Obviously person B is both a hard worker (since he came up with a better mouse trap) and more intelligent. Person A is an idiot for spending 3 years attempting to figure out a better mouse trap without researching on the side.

Also, you seem to be implying you wanted Naruto to figure out how to do Summoning and Rasengan by himself....Good job. If he could do that, he would be on par with the Hokage already. Remember who was the only one to figure out Rasengan by himself? That&#39;s right...the fourth Hokage. Now you want a 13 year old to do it...man you have some pretty low standards there, buddy.

Trip
Sun, 01-25-2004, 06:02 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Jan 23 2004, 02:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> just because he uses up alot of chakra doesnt mean hes a hard worker </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
the point i was trying to make was that his high chakra levels are due to his hard work and training

Mgslee
Sun, 01-25-2004, 06:09 AM
Oh jeez, some of you really got to stop thinking I&#39;m bashing Naruto for not being a hard worker. Naruto is my favorite character but I dont classify him as a hard working type.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>As to asking for help meaning that someone is not a hard worker...that&#39;s a load of bull. Anyone who only relies on themselves to come up with the answer is an absolute retard. The reason that we are educated is because it leads to GREATER advancement if we learn what has already been learned by someone else. Hard work means you work hard, not that you don&#39;t ask for help. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

The retard is by far the harder worker. Naruto is a smart lazy with lots of potential... You dont have to work hard to be smart...

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Obviously person B is both a hard worker (since he came up with a better mouse trap) and more intelligent. Person A is an idiot for spending 3 years attempting to figure out a better mouse trap without researching on the side.

Also, you seem to be implying you wanted Naruto to figure out how to do Summoning and Rasengan by himself....Good job. If he could do that, he would be on par with the Hokage already. Remember who was the only one to figure out Rasengan by himself? That&#39;s right...the fourth Hokage. Now you want a 13 year old to do it...man you have some pretty low standards there, buddy. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Just because you can do something doesnt imply your a hard worker. If you can do a HW assignment in 10 mins while it takes me 1 hr (and we both do it to completion and recive the same mark) who is the harder worker? Your smarter then me but I defiently worked harder.
What you do with that extra 50 mins would only make you a hard worker if you spent it studying, Naruto does not spend his extra time training, he spends it doing other things...

I think people need to look at their defintions of what it takes to be a hard worker vs a smart worker

Hotsuma
Sun, 01-25-2004, 07:09 AM
Actually, I think I agree. Naruto isn&#39;t exactly an grade A student, or even a grade C. He&#39;s a slacker, through and through. But, when things do count, he works pretty hard. If you motivate him enough, he&#39;ll actually bust his hump to acheive something.

But, aside from that, he&#39;s a slacker.

Slackers rule.

revel911
Sun, 01-25-2004, 08:42 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (moridin @ Jan 25 2004, 04:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Question: Did you just totally miss his fights in the 2nd Chuunin Exam, against Neji, against Zabuza, against Kabuto, as well as Gaara?

He is powerful, agreed, and he is rash, but he is something on the level of a fighting genius. He can&#39;t think 100 steps ahead like Shikamaru or even 50 like Neji, Sasuke, and Shino are at, but he is absolutely a genius at thinking up on the fly strategies. In the fight against Zabuza&#39;s Water Clone, that was HIS strategy, not Sasuke&#39;s that freed Kakashi. In the second Chuunin exam, he took the initiative and spent the ENTIRE night fighting with his clones disguised as his teammates. Against Neji, he thought up the strategy on the fly, after being hit by a force greater than what he hit Neji with (because of the reciprocation of the force hitting Kaiten) and beats him. Against Kabuto, he thinks to use the 3 clones to keep Kabuto still while using Rasengan (a strategy which was unforeseen by both Kabuto and Tsunade). Against Gaara, the Naruto Clone Body Slam was a pretty good way of getting behind Gaara (as a half demon freak), even if it didn&#39;t do much damage. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Amen, I was hoping someone would say this. Them sasuke fans seem to forget all the times that Naruto actually thought ahead.

About his natural talent, if I recall in the first episode he used the Sacred Scroll of forbidden Justus and learned Kage Bunshin less than a few hours. That has to count for something. Also, the large amount of stamina is his natural ability, that isn&#39;t from the Kyubi.... could be inheritated trait...... who knows?

moridin
Mon, 01-26-2004, 02:49 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you can do a HW assignment in 10 mins while it takes me 1 hr (and we both do it to completion and recive the same mark) who is the harder worker? Your smarter then me but I defiently worked harder. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Just because I finish faster than you does not make you the harder worker. I just work faster. I could have worked just as hard as you but I just accomplish more with the time that I worked. Same applies for the mousetrap scenario. Person B accomplished more with the time he had. This does not imply that he works any less. I think perhaps you should realize being fast and working hard are not neccessarily related and oftentimes can be mutually exclusive.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>He&#39;s a slacker, through and through. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

If you believe that, fine, but I&#39;d like to know what you thought about Hinata&#39;s flashbacks of Naruto training.

Mgslee
Mon, 01-26-2004, 11:06 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you believe that, fine, but I&#39;d like to know what you thought about Hinata&#39;s flashbacks of Naruto training. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Those are in the Anime not the Manga. The anime makes naruto out to be a hard worker (with inconsistancies mind you)

Its all about effort put in to something. I agree that how fast someone takes to complete something doesnt nessesarily show how hard they worked on it but I was trying to make a simple example.

Someone who completes something faster then someone else usually has to put less effort in completing the task.

I would rather think Naruto is a character that can get things done when it counts. Not someone who could do everything if you gave him enough time.

rEkKaShInObI
Mon, 01-26-2004, 01:07 PM
naruto works hard, he just has no talent. in other words, DROPOUT

Magnus
Tue, 01-27-2004, 09:49 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Jan 21 2004, 07:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> and the more chakra you have the more you can train or use.
i&#39;m saying that everyone whos trained hard has been shown for training hard, we see basically EVERYTHING Naruto does - and he only trained once when taught by Jiyaira.
from what we see all Neji and Lee do is train, they seem to be doing it everytime they&#39;re not at the place (ie before the chuunin exams they&#39;re training, during the month break etc etc etc) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
BS... we only saw part of his training. Speculation. Speculation. Speculation.

Death BOO Z
Wed, 01-28-2004, 03:19 AM
how do you explain Naruto&#39;s reaction after being attacked, the whole &quot;i&#39;m training my ass off every day&#33;&quot; thing?

it&#39;s chapter 10, where there is a picture of his training schedule on the cover.

BluSyn
Wed, 01-28-2004, 08:07 AM
even though naruto has the kyuubi and has a hell of a lot more chakra then everybody else, u guys seem to forget about his poor chakra use. Sure he has a lot but he is horrible at using it so its not the big of an advantage.Eventually naruto is gonna surpass everyone else but unless i missed something, naruto still sucks at chakra use so he probably has to train just as hard as everyone else to become stronger.
*sorry if this has already been mentioned but i dont have time to read all those messages*

khaodessy
Thu, 01-29-2004, 07:57 AM
his charka control should have improved greatly due to learning the resangen which is total charka control. from the series point of view naruto has trouble with low level jutsu. jaraiya already said that narutos training up to this point has all been wrong.

Everon
Fri, 01-30-2004, 01:01 PM
Naruto isn&#39;t a slacker, he&#39;s just untalented. Though he sometimes relies on chakra from the Kyubi, compared to others he has to work a lot harder than anyone else. I totally agree with Naruto noticing how Lee&#39;s hands were worn down during his first fight with Sasuke. For Naruto to notice that is show not only that he&#39;s observant, but he knows that hard work does pay off.

PSJ
Sat, 01-31-2004, 03:37 AM
i really dont know whats up with naruto... its really wierd he learned a high level jounins jutsu in a night and it was a from of bunshin which was his worst skill and then he learned the rasengan in a week which took 4th hokage 3 years(yes he learned it from Jiraiya, 4th did not create it.) but then again naruto trains quite alot at home and that tree climbing he did when hinata stalks him is put int the anime to fill time i think i dont remember it in the manga. as for neji he trained less than naruto before he lost to naruto and way more after the loss. sasuke doesnt train at all or it seems that way.

i would say naruto is a hard working genius....

khaodessy
Sat, 01-31-2004, 04:25 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya @ Jan 31 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i really dont know whats up with naruto... its really wierd he learned a high level jounins jutsu in a night and it was a from of bunshin which was his worst skill and then he learned the rasengan in a week which took 4th hokage 3 years(yes he learned it from Jiraiya, 4th did not create it.) but then again naruto trains quite alot at home and that tree climbing he did when hinata stalks him is put int the anime to fill time i think i dont remember it in the manga. as for neji he trained less than naruto before he lost to naruto and way more after the loss. sasuke doesnt train at all or it seems that way.

i would say naruto is a hard working genius.... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
the 4th did create the resangen and it has been said more then once that it was the 4th&#39;s jutsu. if you notice naruto had trouble with weak jutsus so i can see higher lvl ones being easier for him to do since his charka and stamina is above all the others. it took more then a week for naruto to learn the resangen remember all the days it took him to get to the 3rd step since he was stuck on the 1st and 2nd for a good while.

PSJ
Sat, 01-31-2004, 04:52 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (khaodessy @ Jan 31 2004, 09:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Pervert&#045;Sennin Jiraiya &#064; Jan 31 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i really dont know whats up with naruto... its really wierd he learned a high level jounins jutsu in a night and it was a from of bunshin which was his worst skill and then he learned the rasengan in a week which took 4th hokage 3 years(yes he learned it from Jiraiya, 4th did not create it.) but then again naruto trains quite alot at home and that tree climbing he did when hinata stalks him is put int the anime to fill time i think i dont remember it in the manga. as for neji he trained less than naruto before he lost to naruto and way more after the loss. sasuke doesnt train at all or it seems that way.

i would say naruto is a hard working genius.... </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
the 4th did create the resangen and it has been said more then once that it was the 4th&#39;s jutsu. if you notice naruto had trouble with weak jutsus so i can see higher lvl ones being easier for him to do since his charka and stamina is above all the others. it took more then a week for naruto to learn the resangen remember all the days it took him to get to the 3rd step since he was stuck on the 1st and 2nd for a good while. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
&quot;it was 4ths jutsu&quot; doesnt always mean he created it. and it makes alot more sense if Jiraiya taught him that jutsu. also it says on narutoguide that jiraiya created it but it was seen as 4ths move or something. i htink that the part where jiraiya tells about the rasengan is badly translated. also when did jiraiya have time to learn the rasengan since he left the village and its not likely that 4th created the jutsu while he was a kid. its a lethal jutsu with a great amount of power and its also a complex jutsu. a kid is not smart enough to create a jutsu like that. remember that 4th was also known as the man who could summon frogs which jiraiya taught him i think jiraiya got somewhat forgotten by the ppl when 4th started using his jutsus.

moridin
Sat, 01-31-2004, 12:16 PM
Actually, who created Rasengan is still up for grabs at the moment. I personally believe the 4th created it...just from my interpretation of a translation so there always is a chance the meaning was lost in translation. Does anyone remember how long it has been since Jiraiya left Konoha? I think it said somewhere but I don&#39;t remember. But I thought it was a little after the 4th died, since he knew what Naruto was holding in his body. I believe that Naruto is somewhat of a genius at more difficult ninjutsu...you don&#39;t always have to know the basics to learn harder things. It&#39;s sort of like autistic people who can do square roots in split seconds and yet can&#39;t multiply for their life. Another thing is Naruto learned Rasengan, but he didn&#39;t perfect it. There is a difference. Naruto still &quot;cheats&quot; in a sense when doing Rasengan, and it is nowhere on the level of Jiraiya&#39;s (not to put down the accomplishment of course. The fact that he was able to learn it at all says a lot about his talent and hard work).

rEkKaShInObI
Sun, 02-01-2004, 04:05 AM
If naruto can survive in the forest of death alone for 5 days, you can say he has the guts to work hard. or still really really wants to be the next fire shadow a (hokage)