the 3rd

[Insomniac]

ok ok, everyone goes on about the 4th being the strongest hokage, but in the series it said that the 3rd was the strongest in his prime.
which i'm inclined to believe seeing as he took on both 1st and 2nd hokage, as well as Orochimaru at the same time - and people still rave over Itachi even when they've seen how strong the 3rd is?
Itachi couldnt take on the 1st and 2nd, even if he could they'd regenate seeing as the only way to kill them is to seal their souls.
now i'm abit baffled why everyone assumes the 3rd is just an ordinary nin when so far we've seen hes the strongest in the entire series, Itachi doesnt even compare

why dont we have any 3rd hokage fans?

[KakashiSensei]

I think its b/c he's old now and doesnt really look cool. but hey i like him, he summons the monkey king. Who doesnt like monkies

[Legato 2057]

'Cause he's old.

No, seriously, it;s cause he's old.

If anyone under the age of 30 did half the suff the 3rd did, everyone would be proclaiming him the greatest in the world.

Yet, the 3rd was said to be the strongest Hokage of them all http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/sad.gif There's just no respect for the elderly.

[Insomniac]

not only was it said that he was the strongest hokage of them all, he actually proved it too - still people dont respect him and are all over Itachi

[Legendary Nin]

I'm to blame for most Itachi stuff.The thirds great no doubt.but you can't assume Itachi's strength because you haven't seen it all.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Itachi couldnt take on the 1st and 2nd, even if he could they&#39;d regenate seeing as the only way to kill them is to seal their souls.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

You can&#39;t prove that.you assume it.NOBODY knows if Itachi can perform seals or not.Assuming he was with OROCHIMARU in Akatsuki,he probably can.But I can&#39;t prove that,just like you can&#39;t prove he can&#39;t.But it certainly seems logical,just like Orochimaru taught Kabuto.

[Insomniac]

for one the only way to stop them was to seal their souls - Itachi couldnt have known this unless he was taught by the 3rd directly or the 4th.
Its the 4th&#39;s jutsu, Orochimaru DID NOT know what it was.
Itachi wouldnt have either.
if Itachi knows it then that means that he was a student of the 4th or 3rd which was never bought up in the series at all.

i just gave more evidence too prove that he cant then you gave to proove that he can http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Reason]

Btw, he had to use the 4ths Jutsu to beat the 1st, 2nd and try to take out Oro, http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif

- Reason -

[Evil Eyes]

I personally am a fan of the 3rd. Even though he&#39;s very old (man he&#39;s ancient) I still think that he&#39;s the strongest character in the series. Despite his very old age and that he&#39;s way way past his prime, the guy owned 2 hokages and oro at the same time. I can&#39;t imagine what would have he done if he was in his 30 or hell even in his 50s.
3rd&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;all

[Insomniac]

exactly, it was the 4th&#39;s jutsu and if Orochimaru did not think it was possible for the 3rd to know it then why would Itachi know of it?
the only way that Itachi would know that was if the 3rd or 4th or had them as his teacher, even Orochimaru didnt know and he had the 3rd as his teacher.

he was known as the strongest hokage, stronger then the 4th. you cant expect Itachi to come out of no where and be the strongest character ever and not even leave with Naruto which he set out to do. if he was really as strong as you said he was he would have forcively taken Naruto even with Jiyaira opposing him.
Itachi didnt even come into the leaf until the 3rd was dead, thats got to tell you something.

[Reason]

First off, to prove this is the 4ths Jutsu: (Provided the Translations are correct)

http://darkspace.sylea.org/staffdir/Reason/chapter122_13.jpg
Chapter 122 (&quot;Two&quot; should be &quot;To&quot;, Spelling mistakes are your friend, http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif good job translators anyways, http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)

http://darkspace.sylea.org/staffdir/Reason/chapter122_19.jpg
Chapter 122

http://darkspace.sylea.org/staffdir/Reason/chapter124_04.jpg
Chapter 124

As you can see, the 3rd learned this Jutsu of the 4th&#39;s, either before Kyubi attacked, or during, I believe its during the sealing process though...

This also shows that most likely Orochimaru wasn&#39;t present for the Kyubi Event...(ie, becoming a missing-nin)

If Itachi was there for the Kyubi Attack, perhaps he might know it, but I would doubt he knows...

*Speculation* (Sorry if its already been brought up)
Perhaps Itachi decided to test his own skills (killing the rest of his clan) because of the Kyubi Attack?
*/Speculation*

I also believe Jiriaya might know this Jutsu...if contested, I will try to dig something up later...

Hope that helps to clear up some things...

- Reason -

[Insomniac]

also this proves that Itachi cannot use this technique

it says right there that only those who form a contract with this jutsu can see it
which is much like summoning jutsu, you cant copy it because you&#39;re not contracted.

you cant copy what you cant see.
this is also probably why Orochimaru didnt know about it, it says that only those woh form the contract can see it so no one ever saw the 4th executing the jutsu

[Merco]

I&#39;d be willing to bet large sums of money... once the anime progresses to the point of the Oro/Sarutobi duel... there will be a lot more fans of the 3rd popping up.

I&#39;m getting a feeling things work out for the most part like that (with the exception of Jiraiya... since he&#39;s always badass http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mf_laughbounce2.gif ). There was never a Rock Lee fan club until he went Psycho on Gaara in the anime. There wasn&#39;t a Shikamaru fan club until he completely pulled one over on the Sound nin. The latest one against Temari helped even more considering people now know that he&#39;s a lazy super genius (or something like that).

The main reason there isn&#39;t any fan club for people like the third is because all you do is see him talk. Since the anime is obviously action oriented, the tactics the ninjas use reflect upon their character.

Once things progress I&#39;m getting a feeling the moment the Third starts out with his badass ninja uniform there will be a lot more fans.

[Insomniac]

i dont think this has ever been mentioned but this is probably Itachis movativation exactly

He probably watched the 4th seal the kyuubi and do what he could not and wondered why he existed if he was too weak to succeed, so he decided to test himself against the people who he thought were the strongest - his clan

but anyway enough of that http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif theres already tonnes of Itachi threads

thats true about the anime though, i&#39;m sure we&#39;ll get alot of Orochimaru fans as well though

but yeah, i&#39;ve proved that Itachi cannot do the 4ths jutsu as its a contract thing and not subject to being copied because only those who form the contract can see it (with the help of reason http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif). unless Itachi signed the contract with the jutsu (which i really really really really really really doubt) he wouldnt even know about the jutsu even if he was there when it was being used

[Reason]

I also think that once this series comes to an end, either we will have a movie special detailing the Kyubi Event, or a special mini-series on the 4th...that is, If it doesn&#39;t get resolved within the Anime/Manga, http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif

Also, to stay on topic, I think the 3rd Rocks:

1) He knows EVERY Jutsu in Konoha (Probably one of the reasons Oro wants to learn so many, so he can `beat` his master)
2) He took over after the 4th, even though he was past his prime, obviously since there weren&#39;t any major attacks for 12 years, he had to be feared...
3) Just look at his fight with Oro&#33; Even for his age, he was able to deal with Oro`s tricks, and even managed to take out his arms&#33;
4) He was a very talented Shinobi, taught by the 1st and the 2nd Hokage...He wasn&#39;t chosen for nothing, http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif

He ranks right up there with the 4th, it just happens that the 4th was in his prime when he died, and he `defeated/tied` with a demon(Kyubi), so he is known as the strongest...so far...

BTW, The Fanclub Bandwagon will definatly continue, but there will always be the diehards out there, http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif

- Reason -

[itachi_]

I think that most of the people thinks of him as a old man that can do nothing... but it looks like he&#39;s mighty knowing over 1000 jutsus....

Hokage 3th is good, maybe he was better in his early years, he&#39;s still pretty old, maybe he&#39;s got a little bit weaker after these years..

[Insomniac]

he doesnt only know 1000 jutsu&#39;s.
one of the requirements to being hokage is to know that many but the 3rd was known as the professor, the strongest of ALL hokage. He knew every single jutsu in kohona.
yeah he got weaker, but he was still strong enough to take on the 1st and 2nd and take Orochimarus arms, also he stopped Itachi from coming to take Naruto just by his presence in the village, once he died Itachi made his move.

[Legendary Nin]

Itachi came after the war,because that would be the best time to go for Naruto.Any ninja with common sense would do this,its stategy.Also,he didn&#39;t come to fight,that&#39;s clearly stated.Making commotion and creating attention would risk revealing his intentions to all of Konoha.Any ninja with common sense would avoid this,and leave if necessary,which it was.You don&#39;t see Orochimary just come into Leaf and attack,he creates a carefully devised plan and does everything to keep it from being exposed.Sure Itachi may not know the seal the 3rd used to seal the souls,but who says there isn&#39;t another way to counter it.Oro did create it after all,did he not? So he would know every possible way to counter it,and would also more than likely be capable of countering it .There is almost always more than one way of handling a situation.

[PSJ]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Jan 10 2004, 03:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ok ok, everyone goes on about the 4th being the strongest hokage, but in the series it said that the 3rd was the strongest in his prime.
which i&#39;m inclined to believe seeing as he took on both 1st and 2nd hokage, as well as Orochimaru at the same time - and people still rave over Itachi even when they&#39;ve seen how strong the 3rd is?
Itachi couldnt take on the 1st and 2nd, even if he could they&#39;d regenate seeing as the only way to kill them is to seal their souls.
now i&#39;m abit baffled why everyone assumes the 3rd is just an ordinary nin when so far we&#39;ve seen hes the strongest in the entire series, Itachi doesnt even compare

why dont we have any 3rd hokage fans? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
umm have you missed the point where orochimaru says he left akatsuki because of his fear of itachi and the point tthey mention that itachi is probably one of the strongest ninjas alive? also the fact that 1st and 2nd hokage are the dead bodies of kin and zaku. and they couldnt possibly generate their full power in vessels like them. and you also forgot the fact that we dont know anything about itachi and 4th hokage. you shouldnt put itachi and 4th to low in the totem pole but 3rd was a strong ninja too. he was afterall the smartest hokage. its just that the anime fans havent seen him fight yet. he will get his share of fans.

[itachi_]

When we&#39;re talking about sound, do sound has a village by it&#39;s own, i mena leaf got a village with many citizens, we&#39;ve only seen oro&#39;s place in sound, not any village.. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/huh.gif

[jing]

i think its because we love itachi cuz hes evil. humans are evil.
other than that i can only think of itachi OWNING SASGAY&#33;&#33; n yeah go itachi

[PSJ]

there is a sound village but its like orochimarus mansion and all the imprioned ppl he got there. and his guards and such. but he seem to be good at manipulating. maybe he just manipulated us so we think there is a sound village ?

[Mut]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Legendary Nin &#064; Jan 10 2004, 06:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Itachi came after the war,because that would be the best time to go for Naruto.Any ninja with common sense would do this,its stategy.Also,he didn&#39;t come to fight,that&#39;s clearly stated.Making commotion and creating attention would risk revealing his intentions to all of Konoha.Any ninja with common sense would avoid this,and leave if necessary,which it was.You don&#39;t see Orochimary just come into Leaf and attack,he creates a carefully devised plan and does everything to keep it from being exposed.Sure Itachi may not know the seal the 3rd used to seal the souls,but who says there isn&#39;t another way to counter it.Oro did create it after all,did he not? So he would know every possible way to counter it,and would also more than likely be capable of countering it .There is almost always more than one way of handling a situation. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
god damnit, your ownage lvl is like in the quatrillions. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif

EDIT: he just owned everyone in this thread.

[villin]

This topic seems to be focusing on who is stronger between Itachi and the 3rd. Now don&#39;t get me wrong they are both massively powerful but overall the 4th has to be considered number one. He faced the Kyubi(yes I know this is an overused reason). If the 3rd is so great why didn&#39;t he fight Kyubi. True he was pretty old at the time but not as old as he was when he fought Orochimaru. Logically he would have been stronger at that time. However, it was the 4th who defeated Kyubi. Even if we assume the 3rd did fight Kyubi, he obviously didn&#39;t do sweet fuck all to it.

Also, the 4th was chosen as Hokage by the third presumably because he had become more powerful than the 3rd. He was also chosen over all three of the legendary sannin for the role. That is why Orochimaru left the Leaf. Alot of credit is given to the 3rd for knowing alot of jutsus(maybe all) but the 4th created some of the coolest moves there are such as rasengan and the seal for Kyubi. Also, the 4th&#39;s name appears on the frog summoning contract before Jiraiya&#39;s, therefore he had another teacher besides Jiraiya which means he must have been taught a wide range of techniques.

I tend to be sceptical about the fight between the 3rd and 1st&amp;2nd hokages. For one Orochimaru resurrected them and controlled them which means that it is highly unlikely that they were as strong as they were when they were alive. And two, the jutsus they used were pretty pathetic looking.

There is no doubt that the third and Itachi are both strong but in the end when the village was on the line it was the 4th who whipped some ass.

[Mut]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (villin @ Jan 10 2004, 10:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If the 3rd is so great why didn&#39;t he fight Kyubi. True he was pretty old at the time but not as old as he was when he fought Orochimaru.

He was also chosen over all three of the legendary sannin for the role. That is why Orochimaru left the Leaf.

And two, the jutsus they used were pretty pathetic looking. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
i&#39;m just guessing but i think the 3rd didn&#39;t fight cuz he wasn&#39;t straong as the 4th at that time to seal kyubi. i believe that the 4th was stronger than the 3rd at that time since the 3rd was already aging.

wrong. he didn&#39;t choose orochimaru cuz orochimaru had evil intentions and the 3rd knew about it. this is a fact and i know this cuz i just read the part where it said it.

no way, that fight scene was nuts.

[KakashiSensei]

didnt the 3rd say something about being bound for eternity with the persons soul they seal away right?? Well if the 4th sealed Kyubi away in Narutos belly wouldn&#39;t that mean that the 4th is sealed in Narutos belly too??? Just a thought.

[Insomniac]

i&#39;m sure theres a sound village, its just begun though so its obviously not as big as kohona which has been going for generations

as for the 4th, Itachi and the 3rd i dont see why people ignore the fact that the 3rd was once the strongest of all hokages, which means stronger then the 4th. We dont know anything about the Kyuubi incident at all, we only know that the 4th was there and Irukas parents were fighting, nothing else.

The hokage battle was nuts, definately one of my favourite battles of the series. Itachi has shown us that he can beat most strong jounins with an exception to Jiyaira whom made him retreat and who he recognised as a &#39;strong man&#39; who they needed to find a weakness to.

I dont see why most people think that this series is linear in strength of opponents, we&#39;ve definately seen one of the most epic battles in the entire series between the 3rd and Orochimaru.

[Evil Eyes]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KakashiSensei @ Jan 11 2004, 02:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> didnt the 3rd say something about being bound for eternity with the persons soul they seal away right?? Well if the 4th sealed Kyubi away in Narutos belly wouldn&#39;t that mean that the 4th is sealed in Narutos belly too??? Just a thought. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Well, have u guys ever played naruto&#39;s game on ps2? Naruto&#39;s strongest attack in the game made me quite curious. In his attack he summons Gamabunta then gama hits his opponent then throws him in the air.. suddenly a figure of a man, who 100% resembles the 4th, appears and continues beating the opponent while naruto looks amazed. I think that&#39;s a very strong hint that the 4th is indeed sealed in naruto.
Check it out.

[PSJ]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (KakashiSensei @ Jan 11 2004, 02:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> didnt the 3rd say something about being bound for eternity with the persons soul they seal away right?? Well if the 4th sealed Kyubi away in Narutos belly wouldn&#39;t that mean that the 4th is sealed in Narutos belly too??? Just a thought. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
its the same seal with to diffrent variations. the 3rd will battle 1st, 2nd and orochimarus arms for eternity in another dimension or something while 4th sealed away kyubi inside a liveing creature(naruto) and died cause of that. thats what they say in the manga and anime but of course you cna speculate about the 4th beign in naruto and all that but i dont think so.

[Pyr0]

Yeah, you&#39;re maybe right about the fact that 3rd Hokage may have <u>been</u> strongest of all the kages but you forget that Hokage means you&#39;re the strongest in the village, and that said it means 4th was stronger than 3rd when 4th was chosen. After 4th was sealed within Kyuubi in Naruto the second strongest had to take his place and that would be 3rd again.

And wasn&#39;t Sarutobi one of the badass ninjas in old Japanese stories?

[Tofu #2]

itachi ran away from jaraiya because he was tired

[Assertn]

you cant necessarily say that the 4th created that sealing technique the 3rd used on orochimaru. For one thing, how can somebody just one day discover a way to summon the devil? Seems like something passed down from many generations to me.....

If you think about it, he kept referencing the 4th because the 4th had used the technique BEFORE he ever did, since you can only use the move once. Even if oro or itachi knew the technique, you can bet that they will never use it.....since they value their own lives more than anything else.

[Anbu Hatake Kakashi]

the third look alot better young but i like him he&#39;s cool a cool old geezer http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif when i first saw him im like who teh hell is this geezer but lata afte ri read manga i liked him and that he gave his life for the village http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/sad.gif* *crys likea sissy*

[Insomniac]

the 3rd vs Orochimaru so far has been the most epic battle in the entire series, it&#39;ll be hard to beat it.

the 3rd was fighting for the lives of thousands that lived in kohona, its the pure definition of &#39;protecting precious people&#39;
once this moment gets animated Hakus death will look like nothing in comparison, i mean he dies to save his village, nothin cooler http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/happy.gif

[Legendary Nin]

They better put more work into the animation and music for those episodes.

[Evil Eyes]

go go 3rd. man he rules.

Damn the battle vs Oro is soooooooo gonna kick ass. I hope they get the good animators for it.

Anyway I wonder what would happen when Oro gets his arms healed. Imagine if he was able to summon the 3rd. That would be a certain death for his opponent.

BtW guys no one seems to notice my previous post about the 4th and how his soul could be in naruto. u guys have to check the ps2 game to see what I&#39;m talking about.

[KoRnTaco]

The Third is without a doubt very freaking strong, but he&#39;s nothing compared to Itachi. Sure he beat the 1st and 2nd AND Orochimaru, but don&#39;t understimate Itachi. We still haven&#39;t seen his full powers and his use of the Sharingan is like the best EVER.

[Insomniac]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The Third is without a doubt very freaking strong, but he&#39;s nothing compared to Itachi.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
BAKA

[Nautek]

Ehehe indeed, where did you get that idea Korntaco. The third was stronger then Itachi, I can bet my eye on that.

[Evil Eyes]

Man what&#39;s with this obsession with Itachi. He&#39;s starting to become as annoying as Susgay. I bet that he&#39;s so damn freakin&#39; strong, but his fans make him sound like next to god or something.
I bet that when Itachi get his ass kicked by someone all this fuss about him will go away.


Go go 3rd. Man at the age of 100000 and still he was able to own both the 1st &amp; 2nd (his two senseis) and f*ck up the hand of that fag Oro...
Sarutabi for life&#33;

Too bad they killed him. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mad.gif

[Legendary Nin]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Evil Eyes @ Jan 13 2004, 06:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Man what&#39;s with this obsession with Itachi. He&#39;s starting to become as annoying as Susgay. I bet that he&#39;s so damn freakin&#39; strong, but his fans make him sound like next to god or something.
I bet that when Itachi get his ass kicked by someone all this fuss about him will go away.

</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
blah

Itachi doesn&#39;t have a large fanbase when compared to everyone else.There is hardly any mention of him outside of here and certain chapters he appeared in.Btw,when he loses,I&#39;ll still be a fan.I&#39;m just that,a fan,not a groupie.You want groupie&#39;s,goto the anime section and look up Shikamaru.

[Jiraiy4]

I find it ridiculous how people compare Itachi to the past Hokages. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and the 4th woulda all owned Itachi easily. I believe even Tsunade can beat Itachi...cuz there&#39;s no way she can lose to him. She can do that jutsu with her forehead, and keep on fighting (if she&#39;s willing to risk her life span to win that battle). Also Tsunades only fear is blood, that mange sharingan...I doub&#39;t it&#39;ll work on people on Hokage level; Jiraiya, Orochimaru, past Hokages, etc.

The 3rd was indeed the STRONGEST, MOST WISE, and he did most for the village, he contributed way more than anyone (excluding the 4th sacrificing himself for the village) BUT I believe the 4th wasn&#39;t even in his prime before he died, I bet he woulda met his prime if he lived longer.