Chuunin Exam....WHY??

[Assertn]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shikamaru__ &#064; Dec 12 2003, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> If im not mistaken this forum is for the manga, the manga is ahead of the anime. Hence it is your fault for taking the risk to come in this forum. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
read the &quot;small favor to ask&quot; thread thats been pinned at the top, shikamaru

people dont have to be in the manga forum to see topic headings

edit: although i dont know how &quot;Chuunin Exam....WHY??&quot; is a spoiler if someone stays in another forum

[LordSteelFist]

Narutos far to immature to become a chunnin, he may have skills of a jounin. Also he doesnt no when to give up, Shikamaru became a chunnin yet he gave up.

[samsonlonghair]

This whole topic has already been discussed ad naseum. There must already be half a dozen threads on this.

[*mxyzptlk]

i think shino got jacked because he didnt even get a chance. If he&#39;d gotten to fight, i&#39;m sure that he would have been promoted as well http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif


the rest really werent good enough.. well, gaara is probably strong enough to be a chuunin, maybe even jounin.. not that he cares enough about anyone to be any sort of leader.

his sister (temari?) also deserved a promotion, but i gather that would have been someone from hidden sand&#39;s decision, not one to be made by the hidden leaf elders. actually it seems like all the sand genins were held by for political reasons anyway.


so uh.. yea shino should also be chuunin, but i&#39;m sure he&#39;ll be alright without it.


besides, EVERYONE cant be a leader anyway, it doesnt work out that way.

[nark]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (forkshy @ Dec 12 2003, 01:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> i think they discuss this, but since i&#39;m at school i can&#39;t check on where. i agree about shino, though, he shoud have been given an opportunity to test.

naruto, sasuke, and neji didn&#39;t get promoted because they didn&#39;t show any of the sorts of skills that peopel in leadership posistions need. they&#39;re good at fighting, but ina mission there are a lot of things just as important as brute strength.

sometimes it&#39;s best to know when to retreat and cut your losses. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
kinda makes me think that if u give up that they will make u a chuunin. I thought naruto&#39;s moves were pretty clever. I mean, the fact that he made a clone and then dug underground to hit neiji. That was totally unexpected.

[Noonan]

Okay lets look at the 9 people who made it to the Finals of the Chuunin exam

Dosu - Dead.

Gaara - sent to participate in the exam as a prelude to the war - does not want or need promotion, only to kill strong enemies.

Kankuro - sent as part of the sand nin team - has no intrest in promotion - only in succeeding in his hidden mission.

Temari - sent as part of the sand nin team - has no intrest in promotion - only in succeeding in her hidden mission. Furthermore it is implied in the flashbacks that show the Sand nins plotting that Temari may already be Chuunin level.

Sasuke - Has a curse seal from orochimaru and has shown to be completely unable to controll his emotions - too unstable to become a chuunin.

Neji - Too agressive and assumes too much about his oponents - did not show the maturity or foresight neccissary for a chuunin.

Naruto - In combat he&#39;s a beast - outside of combat he&#39;s a clown - also hasn&#39;t particularly shown any leadership qualities. Naruto may qualify to be an ANBU squad member long before he becomes a Chuunin.

Shino - Wasn&#39;t able to perform before exam was cancelled... but oddly - he refers to himself as a Chuunin while confronting Kankuro....

Shikamaru - showed the ability to plan, neutralize an opponents strength and not be wastefull... which appearently was what they were looking for since the Chuunin rank is a Squad leader type position.

The Chuunin exam tested different things in each step.

Stage 1 - scouting ability and perserverence.
Stage 2 - survival skills, teamwork, group combat
Stage 3 (prelim) - Individual combat.
Stage 3 final - Tactical combat

By the time the Gennins were in the Finals everyone already knew they had the Combat potential to be Chuunins - that wasn&#39;t the point of the exam -

The point was they had been given a month to train for a specific solo mission - and to see how each of them would react.

[Hayate]

Sasuke - Has a curse seal from orochimaru and has shown to be completely unable to controll his emotions - too unstable to become a chuunin.

the Juuin had nothing to do with it. Sasuke is at Chuunin level, except he never got to finish his fight with Gaara. Gemma also said Sasuke was at Chuunin level

[PatternGhost]

Gemma doesn&#39;t decide the promotions, he was just stating his opinion. Sasuke&#39;s at Gennen level in power, but he&#39;s nowhere near mature enough for the rank.

[Hayate]

well, Gemma, being a Jounin would know the criteria of what is needed to be a Chuunin. and i dont think he would just jump to that conclusion over nothing.

Sasuke could have become a Chuunin had his match been completed

[PatternGhost]

He&#39;s too self-centered to be a good leader. He wouldn&#39;t have been promoted.

[skyro]

Erm... let&#39;s see you abandoned our village to join up with the guy who tried to wage war and destroy our village? PROMOTE PROMOTE PROMOTE http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif

Sure Sasuke doing that doesn&#39;t make him a bad ninja (in terms of power) but you&#39;d be insane to promote someone like that to lead your soldiers. Even had the match ended I doubt Sasuke would&#39;ve become chuunin. His all-consuming desire to become more powerful and kill his brother clouds all his judgements and may put his teammates in danger. I don&#39;t see how you can dispute that from what was already shown in the manga.

And at least Sasuke had a chance to show *some* of his skills, Shino didn&#39;t get a chance at all. I thought Shino has the *perfect* traits of a leader. Calm, cool, and collected. He does not underestimate his opponents (like Neji), acts when it is needed (like how he noticed the sand genins were plotting something and put a tracking bug on Sasuke), doesn&#39;t do wasteful things (like Kiba wanted to go get more scrolls after they had obtained theirs already, he was against that), and can analyze situations very well (he chooses to fight Kankorou and let Sasuke fight Gaara since these are the people they have been training to fight). And it is obvious he has group tactics because he is always ordering around his bugs to do this and that. Shino is like the genin that most resembles a cool tactician or military leader.

And about Shino saying he was a chuunin of the leaf when he fought Kankorou, I was thinking that was just a mistake, or a mistranslation. Anybody have the Japanese manga let us know what he said? It was in chap. 125.

[Insomniac]

Sasuke isnt self centered, i hate to break it to you but he only went evil when he realized he wasnt getting anywhere, if he became a chuunin things might have been completely different

i&#39;d like to draw attention to the fight vs Orochimaru, Sasuke wanted to run away and not risk the lifes of everyone around him, instead he listens to Naruto and ends up getting a cursed seal and screwing up his life.
Also Hinata listens to Naruto when he tells her to continue and we all know what happens to her, is it just me or does Naruto give bad advice?

[Chi Chi]

he said at Chuunin level, Kage Bunshin is a jounin level jutsu, does that mean Naruto can be a Jounin?

[jing]

Dude, next time don&#39;t make topic names like this wise guy because the name will pop on the main page of the forum, please understand... read the &quot;small favor to ask&quot; that is PINNED.

And as for the topic, i think Neji was too cocky, or too into the destiny stuff. Naruto never gave up, he would have endaraged his team in another situation if he were leader. As for the rest we all know why, and poor Shino never got a chance to show off his skillz.

[shikamaru__]

I really didnt see that, or im just lazy. But next time I will be more careful on the thread topics that I post. But the thing about shino calling himself a chuunin, I too thought that was kinda funny.

[PatternGhost]

Maybe Shino was just assuming he was promoted? Odd thing to say.

[Hayate]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chi Chi @ Dec 12 2003, 07:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> he said at Chuunin level, Kage Bunshin is a jounin level jutsu, does that mean Naruto can be a Jounin? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
ermmm.. dude, the jutsu someone is using dont show what level you are.

if you look at the Jounin fights, they use Kage Bunshin FAR different to how Naruto uses it.

He&#39;s too self-centered to be a good leader. He wouldn&#39;t have been promoted

ermm.. Sasuke is THAT self centered. he actually cares about those around him, and he had the skills. so i dont see what would stop him from becoming a Chuunin.

[KakashiSensei]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hayate @ Dec 12 2003, 06:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> well, Gemma, being a Jounin would know the criteria of what is needed to be a Chuunin. and i dont think he would just jump to that conclusion over nothing.

Sasuke could have become a Chuunin had his match been completed </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
one of the other chounin also said that Naruto Used a Jounin level Technique...does that mean Naruto should be a jounin??

No i dont think so. Just b/c you have the strength level to become one doesnt mean you have the leadership qualities. Look how quick Sasuke ran out on his friends and villiage

[Chi Chi]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hayate @ Dec 12 2003, 10:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Chi Chi &#064; Dec 12 2003, 07:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> he said at Chuunin level, Kage Bunshin is a jounin level jutsu, does that mean Naruto can be a Jounin? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
ermmm.. dude, the jutsu someone is using dont show what level you are.

if you look at the Jounin fights, they use Kage Bunshin FAR different to how Naruto uses it.

He&#39;s too self-centered to be a good leader. He wouldn&#39;t have been promoted

ermm.. Sasuke is THAT self centered. he actually cares about those around him, and he had the skills. so i dont see what would stop him from becoming a Chuunin. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
And the strength level you&#39;re at doesn&#39;t say anything either about your skills as a leader. He only saw him use Chidori and run straight at the target. He did the same thing as Naruto. Run straight at the enemy. Tactical.

[Hayate]

like i said, the jutsu level has nothing to do with it.

Chikamaru used a Genin level jutsu and still passed.

Naruto may know a Jounin level jutsu, but he doesnt use it like a Jounin.

and just coz Sasuke left the village doesnt make him a bad ninja. Orochimaru is pure evil and would betray anyone but he is still a great leader.

And the strength level you&#39;re at doesn&#39;t say anything either about your skills as a leader. He only saw him use Chidori and run straight at the target. He did the same thing as Naruto. Run straight at the enemy. Tactical.

well no, he didnt. he waited for Gaara to use something that incapacitated him before he used Chidori coz he knew it would take a while.

[Chi Chi]

Sasuke didn&#39;t know what was going on in their. For all he knew, it could be a Henge Jutsu. The only time Sasuke used strategy and showed skills as a leader was with the Haku fight.

[Assertn]

kinda makes me surprised at times how iruka managed to become chuunin through such strict tests

[snoogins]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AssertnFailure @ Dec 12 2003, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> kinda makes me surprised at times how iruka managed to become chuunin through such strict tests </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Or it proves that Iruka is a much stronger shinobi than you give him credit for.

Also Iruka has shown time and again great leadership qualities

[forkshy]

i also suspect there are other types of chunin. like, i doubt they force medical chunins to go through the same test when their primary ability is healing people&#39;s injuries.

iruka is valuable because he&#39;s a great teacher. can you imagine kakashi trying to train a classroom full of amatures?

[shikamaru__]

I know that shikamaru is a strategic genius but, that was a big twist when ONLY shikamaru got promoted. You&#39;d think after seing how much Neji, Naruto, and Sasuke have improved that they would also get promoted. Shino also but he really didn&#39;t get to prove himeself.

What are everyones thoughts on this issue? Or did I just miss something?

[Chi Chi]

No, it is more like: You become Chuunin, then you specialise.

[Uberbaka]

Could you please be more discreet when it comes to naming the topic? Everyone who clicks &quot;view new posts&quot; reads the topics including the ones who do not read the manga... Thank you.

[shikamaru__]

If im not mistaken this forum is for the manga, the manga is ahead of the anime. Hence it is your fault for taking the risk to come in this forum.

[forkshy]

i think they discuss this, but since i&#39;m at school i can&#39;t check on where. i agree about shino, though, he shoud have been given an opportunity to test.

naruto, sasuke, and neji didn&#39;t get promoted because they didn&#39;t show any of the sorts of skills that peopel in leadership posistions need. they&#39;re good at fighting, but ina mission there are a lot of things just as important as brute strength.

sometimes it&#39;s best to know when to retreat and cut your losses.

[XwingRob]

Actually one theory I came up besides the popular one is that the judges don&#39;t want a kid with a demon fox, and a kid who is an avenger to become top level shinobi. But that&#39;s my theory...its probally not true.

[jing]

Sasuke had leadership skillz in forest of death, and naruto vs garaa. too bad no one saw it so he cant be promoted http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

[skyro]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Dec 12 2003, 08:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Sasuke isnt self centered, i hate to break it to you but he only went evil when he realized he wasnt getting anywhere, if he became a chuunin things might have been completely different

i&#39;d like to draw attention to the fight vs Orochimaru, Sasuke wanted to run away and not risk the lifes of everyone around him, instead he listens to Naruto and ends up getting a cursed seal and screwing up his life.
Also Hinata listens to Naruto when he tells her to continue and we all know what happens to her, is it just me or does Naruto give bad advice? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
soo...many...errors...

First Sasuke *was* improving (taijutsu, chidori) and why he left was because Itachi did not give him the time of day. It also seems like he was jealous of Naruto&#39;s improvement, but that was just icing on the cake. It was mainly because of Itachi.

And Oro said he was going to kill them anyway if he didn&#39;t give them the scroll remember? Besides it&#39;s not like he doesn&#39;t care about his comrades, its that when he gets &quot;that way&quot; from thinking about Itachi *that* is when you can&#39;t count on him.

And so Hinata feels a little physical pain but recovers from some emotional ones. I would think Hinata would have rather things happen the way they did than if she just gave up.

[HimizujinEternia]

On Topic, I loved the fact that Shikamaru became the only Chuunin. During the entire course of the Chuunin Exam, he began to grow on me. His cool levelheaded-ness and realistic analyses were really what got me to like him. Sure, he&#39;s a bit whiny. But at least he can be strong with just one Jutsu. He uses Kage Mane very creatively in both his fights, and is very deserving of the rank of Chuunin.

[forkshy]

this is in responce to the Iruka thing.

I kind of feel like many of the genin in this exam are much more powerful than they usually are. I mean, look how fast Gaara deals with another team of far older genin. Sasuke, wihtout being able to use chakra, took out one of the sound village spies. Even the rookie squads had very little trouble dealing with the other teams. (aside form Naruto, but they kind of kept getting screwed over by the oro and his sound gennins.)

So it could have been that up against the average Genin, Iruka was on par, but had he competed against these people he would&#39;ve lost.

[Daniel of Lorien]

you are correct... Sasuke was going to risk his own life to save Naruto and Sakura... however Naruto had the tactical and emotional knowledge to know that he was capable of beating Garaa... in a fight Naruto is second to none in tactics... Sasuke displayed all the requirments for a chunnin and had everything gone off right he would have won his match and probably been promoted... however the curse seal is acting against Sasuke and causeing him problems... other wise I don&#39;t think any of this would have happened... we have already seen it effect his judgment, but we have also seen him reject it because of his consern for his teammates. Sasuke deserves the title almost as much as Shino... and Naruto may get it at the end of this mission... but who knows what our friend Kishimoto is thinking http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif

[jing]

N shikamaru&#39;s shadow abilities helped him get promotion, common who can block shadow? how about sneaking up an enemy with kagemane no jutsu, u cant smell shadows, or hear shadows lol......... it&#39;l be ez if hes good at sneaking.

[Legendary Nin]

Sasuke and Naruto are around a Jounin level in strength right now.The problem with them is that their mind is in the wrong place.Sasuke is power hungry,Naruto is hokage crazy.Though Naruto is starting to mature more now,Sasuke is still undetermined.

[fear_my_jutsu]

one thing i don`t understand, and i don`t know if this has been cleared up already because i didn`t bother to read all the posts is that why would they only want leaders to become chunnin, u may have a great leader but u gotta admit shikamaru doesn`t have the strongest power. wouldn`t that mean that he would need some strong members on his team that way they can follow orders not be leaders. i don`t understand why they would want everyone to be a leader, otherwise there would be nobody to follow the orders given by the leader. also skyro the chunnin exams happened before sasuke decided to leave the village so that has nothing to do with it at all&#33;&#33;&#33; maybe u should re-read the manga

[HimizujinEternia]

The reason they want people with leadership qualities to progress is because Chuunin become squad leaders. The ability to think through things rationally and not endanger your team are the qualities that truly stand out among Chuunin. It&#39;s not the level of Jutsu you know, and it&#39;s not how strong you are.

&quot;If you&#39;re a ninja, act like a first-rate one.&quot; Morino Ibiki

This quote sums up the true meaning of the Chuunin exam. Resourcefulness and cunning.

[skyro]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fear_my_jutsu @ Dec 14 2003, 08:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> one thing i don`t understand, and i don`t know if this has been cleared up already because i didn`t bother to read all the posts is that why would they only want leaders to become chunnin, u may have a great leader but u gotta admit shikamaru doesn`t have the strongest power. wouldn`t that mean that he would need some strong members on his team that way they can follow orders not be leaders. i don`t understand why they would want everyone to be a leader, otherwise there would be nobody to follow the orders given by the leader. also skyro the chunnin exams happened before sasuke decided to leave the village so that has nothing to do with it at all&#33;&#33;&#33; maybe u should re-read the manga </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I&#39;m sure they are in the situation where there are enough genin (soldiers) but not enough chuunin (leaders). Also, chuunin make up the core army of the leaf so chuunin can be part of a normal squad as well (like anbu).

And yeah I know Sasuke left after the chuunin exam, but everybody knew how unstable he was. The last thing you want is an unstable leader. Had his match been completed, and Sasuke did not have the curse seal or his desire for power to kill his brother it is quite possible he may have become promoted.

And someone said Naruto is second to none in tactics? You mean power right? Sasuke, Shino, Shikamaru are/were all genin who have better tactics than Naruto does, not to mention the jounin-level people like Kakashi.

[snowball]

the exam wasnt about the insane amount of power you had. it was about descision making skills and the ability to know when to step back

[Insomniac]

Naruto and the genins are definatly not at jounin level.
They dont desplay the knowledge or jutsus required to be jounins, jounins constantly think ahead and i think the only reason that the sound nins were able to beat those jounins that went after them was because of the fact that they ALL had to go level 2 and ALL teamed up on only 2 jounins.

If the sound nins teamed up on the genins and they would have won alot faster then this 1 at a time crap http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif
Put Naruto up against a jounin that knows what they&#39;re doing (Tsunade for example) and watch him get cained easily (another example is Orochimaru, sealing up the Kyubi and getting rid of the threat completely)

Naruto may fight people who are of jounin level (Kabuto) and &quot;win&quot; (some call it a win i call it a tie) but thats only because hes meant to win, not because hes at the same level, luck only lasts so long.

[Beautiful Green Beast]

He was well worth it...

[tuggumkee]

naruto&#39;s tactics usually end up in doing suprise attacks thought up in an instance/ in battle. He doesn&#39;t have battle tactics before fighting / assessing the situation. The reason why naruto wins against the strong fighters (jounin are good at everything. not just one or two jutsu). all the Jounin are good at basics and not just one or two jutsus.
Kakashi said he can even go at the speed gai goes at, if only for a short period of time.
Naruto doesn&#39;t think ahead, and he only wins because most of his opponents underestimate him and get surprised. If a jounin / kabuto wanted to take out naruto in the beginning instead of fooling around, naruto would have no chance against a jounin
(same goes for sasuke, they just dont have the basics... though i&#39;d say sasuke is closer to jounin than naruto)

Look when Oro wanted to just get naruto out of the way, he took him out in an instant.
Naruto was only able to win against kabuto because he surprised him by grabbing the hand with the knife.
Naruto and gang are not anywhere near jounin level... they may have jounin attacks(rasengen, chidori, heavenly spin) but i&#39;d say if a jounin really wanted them dead they would have no chance.

And naruto would be a horrible chunnin. sasuke and shino should have been chunnin though(sasuke generally has good fighting sense, knew he had no chance against oro, etc. and dont gimme vengence crap, anko was / is special jounin and they know about her and oro)

[chronic]

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tuggumkee @ Dec 20 2003, 05:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> naruto&#39;s tactics usually end up in doing suprise attacks thought up in an instance/ in battle. He doesn&#39;t have battle tactics before fighting / assessing the situation. The reason why naruto wins against the strong fighters (jounin are good at everything. not just one or two jutsu). all the Jounin are good at basics and not just one or two jutsus.
Kakashi said he can even go at the speed gai goes at, if only for a short period of time.
Naruto doesn&#39;t think ahead, and he only wins because most of his opponents underestimate him and get surprised. If a jounin / kabuto wanted to take out naruto in the beginning instead of fooling around, naruto would have no chance against a jounin
(same goes for sasuke, they just dont have the basics... though i&#39;d say sasuke is closer to jounin than naruto)

Look when Oro wanted to just get naruto out of the way, he took him out in an instant.
Naruto was only able to win against kabuto because he surprised him by grabbing the hand with the knife.
Naruto and gang are not anywhere near jounin level... they may have jounin attacks(rasengen, chidori, heavenly spin) but i&#39;d say if a jounin really wanted them dead they would have no chance.

And naruto would be a horrible chunnin. sasuke and shino should have been chunnin though(sasuke generally has good fighting sense, knew he had no chance against oro, etc. and dont gimme vengence crap, anko was / is special jounin and they know about her and oro) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
i agree totally. naruto is too... how do u say... he rushes into a fight head on, doesn&#39;t think of the what will happenen to him, i sometimes thinks he doesn&#39;t care. i do agree he is strong, but without the help of kyubi&#39;s fast healing powers, he&#39;d be in real trouble. however, i do feel the tactic he used in the chunin exams was really smart. but he caused to much damage for himself.