Sousou no Frieren [Archive] - Page 2

Ryllharu

Fri, 03-01-2024, 03:53 PM

At least I finally remember why I couldn't remember this exam test: It is a big drop in the writing quality of the series or full of terrible contradictions to earlier in the series.

Gives Frieren a stupid exploitable weakness mostly for the purposes of this corner they've painted themselves into and opt to choose the laziest method to resolve it...they could have at least gone with the mimic for the same kind of distraction
Claim zoltraak is the fastest activation time spell in existence when we've seen Flamme kill three demons at the speed of light with a much earlier spell when she first adopted Frieren
Have Lawine arrive with some deus ex machina lore drop for the team to use ("my brother explored this dungeon before!") at exactly the right time before they make a planning error
Have the other guy show up right on time before they make a planning error
Have the others strategize matchups when Richter can just...MAKE A WALL to block them in safely while Fern and Frieren do their thing.
Reveal that Methode can also heal, because her role is apparently to supplement whatever necessary utility their group needs at the moment.

The flashy animation makes up it...a little. No wonder I had no memory of it.

MFauli

Fri, 03-01-2024, 04:28 PM

Ryllharu

Fri, 03-01-2024, 05:08 PM

I'd at least excuse the "people appearing at just the right time" criticism. That's basically all to show how Denken was right and they should have went in as a group from the beginning.
Normally, yes.

But they were about to go in and use hypnosis magic right when the guy arrived to tell them it wouldn't.

Then Lawine shows up at exactly the right moment to warn them that they can't wait any longer or they'll be murdered by all the other clones converging right after Sense tells them she won't reveal what she knows (even though her clone is one of the worst ones besides Frieren). Sense knew all along that there was a much stricter and deadlier time limit despite the one she initially gave them. Worse still, having them all now working together is exactly like she hoped is undermined by the fact that she won't warn them they're all about to be killed unless they use the bottles. She is still ensuring their failure despite what she says to her peers. Lawine's perfectly timed arrival counteracts the challenge Sense set up by refusing to operate as a source of knowledge.

The other wasted potential was using zoltraak when the whole arc and explictly the flashback discussion between Serie and Frieren has been about human innovation in magic. It didn't have to be Fern. It didn't have to be an existing spell like zoltraak. They established that Serie and Frieren agreed that Frieren could be killed by innovative human magic. Zoltraak is something that Frieren essential handed to humans to innovate on, where "modern magic" is something human mages have been deriving all along and more thematically appropriate for this arc.

They even added in some bullshit about how zoltraak is "more modern" than elf magic (as if Frieren hasb't been studying magic for 1000 years now) and she's not "attuned" to auto-defending it?

DarthEnderX

Fri, 03-01-2024, 09:29 PM

Man, they are dragging this out.

The other clones showing up should have been a non-issue. Just have Frieren and Fern wipe them out beforehand. But I guess they have to give the other characters SOMETHING to do.

A good twist now would be if the Fern clone was in the room with the Frieren clone the whole time and nobody could detect it.

Kraco

Sat, 03-02-2024, 01:01 AM

A good twist now would be if the Fern clone was in the room with the Frieren clone the whole time and nobody could detect it.

It wouldn't necessarily even be such a twist, considering Frieren and Fern were together all the time. We already have one precedent of three clones facing the exact corresponding three originals. Though at the same time, Sense's clone is totally elsewhere. So, maybe they are random, or maybe some of the clones are sticking together, some wandered off even if they spawned together matching the original group. Not to mention it kind of looks like not all the humans have yet to be cloned. Maybe Fern wasn't.

MFauli

Sat, 03-02-2024, 02:10 AM

A good twist now would be if the Fern clone was in the room with the Frieren clone the whole time and nobody could detect it.

Oh my, now I'm getting the chills, the would be awesome. Or it would be, if this was a different show where main characters could actually die ;>

Man, imagine clone Fern outta nowhere killing real Frieren. It'd be so creepy, the music suddenly faded away, absolute silence, just the sound effect of the attack, and then the camera pans to some far side of the room that's in the shadows, and we see clone Fern, just standing there. And then FINALLY real Fern would actually show some emotions at long last.

David75

Sat, 03-02-2024, 02:28 AM

So we got a simple yet effective strategy and not a mimic meme.
And the other mages do not get to enjoy the fight. It's probably a good idea for Frieren's long term survival that fewer people train to kill her.

Ryll is right, everything is too conveniently written. Worse though: Lawine's brother party didn't clear the dungeon even though they know the spiegel is easy to kill? How do they even know that? Since they didn't kill it, how do they know there isn't another trap or twist?

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-02-2024, 02:35 AM

Man, imagine clone Fern outta nowhere killing real Frieren.What I'm picturing instead, since they didn't show the results of Fern's attack, is that the next episode would start with the reveal that clone Fern shielded Fern's killshot. And now it turns into a more desperate battle, because their plan has failed, and now it's 2-on-2.

Kraco

Sat, 03-02-2024, 04:38 AM

To be fair, I reckon Fern would have actually detected her own clone. She's also quite a systematic person, so I doubt she would have simply neglected to consider the possibility entirely. Not only that, but who wouldn't think of their own clone? That ought to be the first thought in anyone's mind.

How about that one dude who's always using a dublicate to avoid danger? What would Spiegel clone? A clone of a clone? I wonder if it's possible to draw all the relevant information out of a dublicate in the first place. Maybe his clone is just standing in a T-pose, unable to do anything, haha.

Buffalobiian

Sat, 03-02-2024, 12:22 PM

Fern wouldn't be able to detect her own clone unless her clone did something. It's like two submarines detecting each other passively. They'll just hide until the first one makes a move.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-02-2024, 06:01 PM

The really interesting thing about Freiren's weakness is it will only allow an enemy (at least of the level we have been shown so far) to kill her if she was keeping herself busy.

MFauli

Fri, 03-08-2024, 01:16 PM

episode 26:

Glad it ended and wasn't drawn out into another episode.

Tbh I'm disappointed our fanfiction didn't come true and clone-Fern just showed up in a montage against the detection-mage. Ah well, not the anime's fault.

That some of them failed the test just for getting unlucky is bs, but I also like how it's not a happy end for all of them.

If I understood the final fight correct, Fern COULD have beaten clone-Frieren, but she was too soft and stopped after inflicting a "fatal wound" - she should have completely obliterated the clone. That gave the clone to use some super-move of Frieren's which, in turn, let Frieren finish it off instead of Fern.

I still think Sense is full of shit. Her safety-golems only work if one is fast enough to use them. We knew that clone-Sense cannot be detected by most, so good luck, eh. That actually made anxious when I imagined playing a video game with a super strong enemy wandering around that could anytime kill you. Alien Isolation and Resident Evil 3 come to mind >_>

I like Übel, though. She's crazy, probably a good amount of evil, but there's something about her. I'd hope she finds a good man who leads her to a path of light.

shinta|hikari

Fri, 03-08-2024, 01:19 PM

Ubel is officially lesbian.

MFauli

Fri, 03-08-2024, 01:27 PM

Ubel is officially lesbian.

All the more reason she needs a man, AMIRITE?!!?!?!

:P

DarthEnderX

Fri, 03-08-2024, 01:36 PM

I like Übel, though. She's crazy, probably a good amount of evil, but there's something about her.I always like it when a character who's not completely indoctrinated in the accepted rules of a power system are able to completely break the power system purely by dint of the fact that they didn't know you couldn't do that.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-09-2024, 06:24 AM

I still think Sense is full of shit. Her safety-golems only work if one is fast enough to use them. We knew that clone-Sense cannot be detected by most, so good luck, eh. That actually made anxious when I imagined playing a video game with a super strong enemy wandering around that could anytime kill you. Alien Isolation and Resident Evil 3 come to mind >_>

I like Übel, though. She's crazy, probably a good amount of evil, but there's something about her. I'd hope she finds a good man who leads her to a path of light.

I always like it when a character who's not completely indoctrinated in the accepted rules of a power system are able to completely break the power system purely by dint of the fact that they didn't know you couldn't do that.
Ubel is the bright spot of this test in the arc.

She reveals a bit of arrogance and hypocrisy in the gatekeeping that the Mage Association does with this exam.

Ubel understands magic on a more fundamental level than most of the cast. It's all about visualization first, then the mechanics behind it fulfill it come after. In contrast, Fern was taught the mechanics first. Ubel just ignores the mechanics. It's consistent with her other skill of empathizing with another and then taking their magic specialty. She believes that once she does, she'll inherently know their trademark spell, and then she simply does.

The magic association members are crippling themselves and their examinees with predilections, intentionally or otherwise. The flashback showed that they frequently plan the 2nd test to be nearly impossible to pass. I don't really buy their excuse that a First Class mage should be capable of overcoming these challenges when they've surrounded themselves with specialists and then design tests around their areas of expertise.

The way they set up that previous test, Ubel was the only one who could ever have passed it. Maybe Richter could have, or Kanne, but they'd have been disqualified by the other offensive spell limits the association placed "for safety."

It's a great moment that Sense just fails to believe that Ubel could cut anything. She lost from the moment they even spoke. Sense then fails to learn anything by justifying it to herself that Ubel is simply crazy and a sociopath.

And yeah, Sense can talk about how she's a pacifist all she wants and how the test should be easy if they all cooperated, but the Association designed this test to fail as many examinees as possible, and Sense herself tagging along was the contingency plan.

Buffalobiian

Sat, 03-09-2024, 07:15 AM

Ubel is officially lesbian.

Stark_NANDE.jpeg.

(Camera-man did some between-the-thigh shots of Ubel again :3)

If I understood the final fight correct, Fern COULD have beaten clone-Frieren, but she was too soft and stopped after inflicting a "fatal wound" - she should have completely obliterated the clone.

Frieren did mention that the little opennings she managed to produce weren't enough for Fern to recognise, which points towards areas of improvement for Fern herself.

She recognised the obvious openning however and quickly jumped on that. She would have been able to blast Clone-Frieren more at the expense of using more mana (she probably wasn't low, but she did still have to deal with AOE attacks). Fern also couldn't see if Clone-Frieren was still up since she had to wait for the dust to settle before commenting "She's still standing". So she fired what she thought was a fatal barrage.

It was cool to see the "mana pressure" attack. It's a rather cool trope in combat/martial arts shows where the height of technique is just a formless blow of some sort. Fern said she didn't detect any mana, but there's clearly a magic circle underneath the clone so it's a magic attack. Maybe she means she didn't detect mana being converted into a spell or something since this is just Frieren's mana in your face (she'd have been releasing mana all throughout the fight anyway).

It looks like it's a channelling cast though, so that just totally brought out Frieren's "I don't detect magic when I'm casting" weakness fully for exploit. If only it was an omnidirectional attack - then the weakness wouldn't have mattered.

edit: Poor Fern got her staff crushed. She's had that since her Heiter days.

edit2: Oh, based on this episode, the boss room was on the same floor as Frieren's clone, so anyone who made it to that floor should actually be given a pass.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-09-2024, 07:46 AM

It was cool to see the "mana pressure" attack. It's a rather cool trope in combat/martial arts shows where the height of technique is just a formless blow of some sort. Fern said she didn't detect any mana, but there's clearly a magic circle underneath the clone so it's a magic attack. Maybe she means she didn't detect mana being converted into a spell or something since this is just Frieren's mana in your face (she'd have been releasing mana all throughout the fight anyway).

It looks like it's a channelling cast though, so that just totally brought out Frieren's "I don't detect magic when I'm casting" weakness fully for exploit. If only it was an omnidirectional attack - then the weakness wouldn't have mattered.

To this day, one of my favorite moments in any fantasy fiction is from Scrapped Princess when Raquel displays how shield magic is as offensive as it is defensive. Very similar vibe.

I assume that Frieren's attack wasn't just the full release of her mana pressure, but either a curse she knows somehow (hence not recognizing it as a directed attack), or something from the mythic age long before she ever met Flamme.

MFauli

Sat, 03-09-2024, 10:02 AM

Hm, I don't remember that Raquel offensive shield-scene. But now that you mentioned Scrapped Princess, I kinda feel like rewatching it. Great anime that I didn't appreciate back then, but would nowadays call it a masterpiece compared to the new stuff ...

Ubel is the bright spot of this test in the arc.

She reveals a bit of arrogance and hypocrisy in the gatekeeping that the Mage Association does with this exam.

Ubel understands magic on a more fundamental level than most of the cast. It's all about visualization first, then the mechanics behind it fulfill it come after. In contrast, Fern was taught the mechanics first. Ubel just ignores the mechanics. It's consistent with her other skill of empathizing with another and then taking their magic specialty. She believes that once she does, she'll inherently know their trademark spell, and then she simply does.

The magic association members are crippling themselves and their examinees with predilections, intentionally or otherwise. The flashback showed that they frequently plan the 2nd test to be nearly impossible to pass. I don't really buy their excuse that a First Class mage should be capable of overcoming these challenges when they've surrounded themselves with specialists and then design tests around their areas of expertise.

The way they set up that previous test, Ubel was the only one who could ever have passed it. Maybe Richter could have, or Kanne, but they'd have been disqualified by the other offensive spell limits the association placed "for safety."

It's a great moment that Sense just fails to believe that Ubel could cut anything. She lost from the moment they even spoke. Sense then fails to learn anything by justifying it to herself that Ubel is simply crazy and a sociopath.

And yeah, Sense can talk about how she's a pacifist all she wants and how the test should be easy if they all cooperated, but the Association designed this test to fail as many examinees as possible, and Sense herself tagging along was the contingency plan.

What you say sounds good on a quick glimpse, but really: You're excusing bs writing where Übel just can do WHATEVER. All the other mages go through years of harsh training to learn magic, and you're praising Übel for simply "doing" stuff. Ultimately, it's bs writing, because if everyone just "did" whatever they envision, magic would be total chaos ... and way too powerful and dangerous. So I don't think it's fair to criticize Sense for calling Übel a psychopath and, especially, when she says that Übel's mind is not human. I think that's quite literally the case, which explans why magic in general requires years of training. Nobody but Übel could "just do" stuff.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-09-2024, 10:22 AM

What you say sounds good on a quick glimpse, but really: You're excusing bs writing where Übel just can do WHATEVER. All the other mages go through years of harsh training to learn magic, and you're praising Übel for simply "doing" stuff. Ultimately, it's bs writing, because if everyone just "did" whatever they envision, magic would be total chaos ... and way too powerful and dangerous. So I don't think it's fair to criticize Sense for calling Übel a psychopath and, especially, when she says that Übel's mind is not human. I think that's quite literally the case, which explans why magic in general requires years of training. Nobody but Übel could "just do" stuff.
Don't think about it that way.

I loathe most of the writing in this part of the Examination arc, to the point that I actually blocked most of it out after having read the manga. This test is bullshit and the writing in it is terrible. Methode even used more random abilities (suddenly having the best mana sense!?!?) to plug in more plot holes.

But Ubel's mini-arc here is well-founded because it proves the point that the Magic Association doesn't know shit about magic. Same kind of line that Frieren has been telling Fern all along ("You only need 'basic' magic to defeat any modern era mage"). Frieren has an enormous repertoire of combat spells, but she never uses them either. You don't need them.

Ubel shows the point that magic is more instinctual than most believe. It's not bullshit writing because Ubel has been saying this the entire time she's been on screen. Yes, she operates just like a demon, but she is human. Don't think that she's invincible or superpowered. Ubel knows she can cut anything that can be cut, and she set rules for herself to make it work (i.e. she can't cut the shield because it is meant to stop spells, the end).

The Magic Association is simply WRONG about magic. Ubel shouldn't be able to cut. The dome shield is unbreakable. They've deluded themselves into thinking they know the extent of magic. Frieren's attitude has always been about the discovery of new stuff.

Ubel may be kind of fucked up, but she also just wants to learn new spells too (thus her empathize and copy behavior), while constantly being wowed by simple things like cutting fabric (and today, anything else that can be cut in her mind).

Ultimately, the series isn't a "Hard Magic System" to use the terminology of English fantasy series analysis. There's really no rules of how the system is supposed to work in the first place. The Magic Association does, as do the formal schools that Erhe, Kanne, Lawine went to. Frieren, Flamme, and Ubel know that there aren't any.

edit: Ubel's specialty of magic isn't any different from Kara no Kyoukai abilities if you want to assess it against another series that no one has any issues with. There's abilities that Turn/Rotate/Twist things, spells that Ignite things, and mystic eyes that Kill Anything Magical.

David75

Sat, 03-09-2024, 04:29 PM

Ubel is a genius at her specialty. So she sees and feels things that can't be explained with common knowledge and skills.
In sports, maths or any field, you sometimes meet people with skills you'd think are impossible if you didn't see them for yourself.
For example I've seen carpenters cutting long pieces of wood with hand tools, without measuring and perfectly straight too, with perfect fit. Should I try, can't cut straight, can't fit as well even when measuring. And that is basic level of skills for them.

Regarding the Cloak mage, well Ubel did infringe on a rule because it was set that way to fail everyone.
The trick probably was to overpower the spells. Cutting is putting force on a very small area. Could apply to her mana blade, you'd need an incredible lot of mana to block that on a large area. Or you can relocate your mana, but expose other parts.

Kraco

Sat, 03-09-2024, 05:38 PM

It kinds of bothers me nobody tried to lead one of the clones to Sense. The clones would have naturally attacked her as well, considering she's also an intruder. I guess it would have been risky since she grew her roots right next to the last chamber door, but it would have been justice.

Ubel is a genius at her specialty. So she sees and feels things that can't be explained with common knowledge and skills.

I'd say she's more like a crazy woman than a genius. She believes in a world nobody else believes in. Though maybe the demons do. It's extremely difficult to live like that, with beliefs contradicting everything others would keep telling you, contradicting what is commonly believed to be true. It's like being a flat Earth believer in the academic world.

So, is she more right about magic than others? Possibly, but it doesn't matter since any random person probably can't become like her just by trying. Any random person can follow the regular, methodical route, though. Maybe people (test subjects) brought up from early childhood in isolation, like a monastery, "brainwashed" with a world view like Ubel's, could produce more of them. The problem is, though, that as soon as those experiments started to interact with folks in the wide world, outside of the isolated environment, most of them probably would lose their powers very soon.

Buffalobiian

Fri, 03-15-2024, 11:58 AM

Episode 27

--------------------------------------------

So Serie is a beast.

Given that Frieren's fought demons (and presumably studied them either through combat or off the field), it's weird that she was surprised about Aura commenting about their keen perception of mana - as if it's an unknown thing to Frieren.

Presumably both Frieren and Serie can both see their own fluctuations - otherwise you wouldn't know it exists.

Fri, 03-15-2024, 01:18 PM

It's strange they kept the line in where Frieren says Serie isn't going to pass either her or Fern, and also the line later where she says Serie is certain to pass Fern no matter what she says.

DarthEnderX

Fri, 03-15-2024, 02:29 PM

It's strange they kept the line in where Frieren says Serie isn't going to pass either her or Fern, and also the line later where she says Serie is certain to pass Fern no matter what she says.No. She said said Serie INTENDS to fail them both. But that she wouldn't after she saw Fern's potential.

Either way, they were only even doing this to get permission to travel north. So the fact that Fern is getting her license means the story can continue, even if Frieren fails.

Fri, 03-15-2024, 02:58 PM

No. She said said Serie INTENDS to fail them both. But that she wouldn't after she saw Fern's potential.

The sub I watched just had her say "Serie won't let you or me pass".

Kraco

Fri, 03-15-2024, 04:36 PM

I suppose it's not strange for Serie to say she's surprised Frieren could beat the demon king. After all, Serie herself couldn't have done it, yet she considers Frieren a failure of a mage. But then again, Serie's intuition is always right, so she would have known Frieren could do it. Uhhuh.

Maybe it's just because I dislike Serie so much, but I feel like the humans are doing a disservice to themselves by allowing Serie to have the highest position in the organisation of magicians. I can't help but feel it's like the Vulcans overseeing humans in the Star Trek universe for many a shameful year.

MFauli

Fri, 03-15-2024, 06:15 PM

That was bs, though, lol.

Blabla, you guys explanating why it fits the series, blabla. We spend 10 episodes on a fierce mage exam and the end it with an anticlimatic scene where one person just fails you without even bothering to explain why unless you ask. You cannot even call this a learning lesson ("never let yourself be overwhelmed by someone"), when that is something that could be taught at any prior time. No need to wait years for retrying the exam.

Tbh I will be really upset if Denken doesn't get to pass, yet I kinda expect it, because Denken thinks a lot (Serie: "Too much"?). And hilariously, Übel probably should get to pass because she's never afraid of an enemy and always just imagines cutting anyone down.

Frieren being failed is just bs, too. Honestly, I want someone to prove to Serie that her "intuition" is not fail-proof. Why did she even shit on her human disciple like that? Totally random.

Btw. wtf, Serie was a woman? Didn't know that lol.

DarthEnderX

Fri, 03-15-2024, 09:50 PM

Buffalobiian

Sat, 03-16-2024, 03:15 AM

Btw. wtf, Serie was a woman? Didn't know that lol.

Yeah apparently she is, but all I hear is Killua speaking.

inexplicably popular lady as well

Is it hard to see why Methode is popular?

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-16-2024, 03:36 AM

Is it hard to see why Methode is popular?I assume it's the boobs? Cause she's a really boring character.

She's not even dressed provocatively for booba character though.

Kraco

Sat, 03-16-2024, 04:10 AM

Who's gonna argue with someone that they think is 100 times more powerful than them?

That doesn't match my view of how humanity operates at all. Sure, there will always be plenty of people who bow down to power like sheep, but plenty of people will feel rebellious due to envy, sense of injustice, being afraid of the other side's power, sense of it threatening the balance in the world, etc. What happened in this very episode should make quite a few humans ask themselves why some ancient elf gets to decide which human becomes a first class, which doesn't. It doesn't even need to be any dislike of elves (let alone racism), but it should look quite strange. Elves live forever, humans live 100 years if extremely lucky, so how could an elf have the correct perspective for it? 99% of the guild mages ought to be humans, so it's quite unreasonable, no matter how you look at it, that the final word will always be in an elf's hands.

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-16-2024, 09:35 AM

Sure, there will always be plenty of people who bow down to power like sheep, but plenty of people will feel rebellious due to envy, sense of injustice, being afraid of the other side's power, sense of it threatening the balance in the world, etc.Well, those are not the people in charge of the Imperial Mages.

What happened in this very episode should make quite a few humans ask themselves why some ancient elf gets to decide which human becomes a first class, which doesn't.And the reasonable answer to that question is "Because experience."

Most people who've been doing something for a month, are going to show deference to someone who's been doing it for 10 years. And by that same token, it makes sense for someone that's being doing something for 10 years to show deference to someone who's been doing it for 1000 years.

Especially when that person likely, ya know, built the entire organization you're in.

MFauli

Sat, 03-16-2024, 09:38 AM

That then leads to the matter of longevity and that has me ask: Why are there no immortality spells? Especially in this universe where there exist spells for all sorts of banal bs. Surely a "living forever"-spell must have been tried to create at least.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-16-2024, 09:44 AM

Maybe it's just because I dislike Serie so much, but I feel like the humans are doing a disservice to themselves by allowing Serie to have the highest position in the organisation of magicians. I can't help but feel it's like the Vulcans overseeing humans in the Star Trek universe for many a shameful year.
They can't pass up the promise of being taught a spell they'd never be able to learn otherwise due to their shorter lifetimes. Even though Frieren disrespects her constantly, humans treat Serie as a godess because of that.

We also learn its only be 50 years since Serie finally passed someone to first class...pretty sure that conflicts with previous lore directly, but nobody seems to care that this series can't keep its lore straight but me.

Blabla, you guys explanating why it fits the series, blabla. We spend 10 episodes on a fierce mage exam and the end it with an anticlimatic scene where one person just fails you without even bothering to explain why unless you ask. You cannot even call this a learning lesson ("never let yourself be overwhelmed by someone"), when that is something that could be taught at any prior time. No need to wait years for retrying the exam.

Frieren being failed is just bs, too. Honestly, I want someone to prove to Serie that her "intuition" is not fail-proof. Why did she even shit on her human disciple like that? Totally random.
I will never defend this arc. I personally think it is shit. Completely out of tune with the rest of the series that is fundamentally better. It's loaded with bad writing, contradictory lore, plot contrivances to close plot holes, etc. I dared to criticize it and got moderated on another forum for it, haha.
I seem to remember manga readers not being particular fond of the magic exam arc either for much of the same reasons, but once it is animated all pretty it is a sacred cow.

What we can assume is that the old guy probably fights the examinees one-on-one and kills half of them, because the Magic Association are elitist assholes who think they know better about magic than anyone, and they're blindly following Serie's philosophy that magic is primarily for war.

The pendant Frieren has also shows her that Serie isn't a final authority, just the current one. Her pendant from the Church was the equivalent or greater achievement than getting First Class certified in present day.

Serie does this because she's looking for another Flamme. She just found one in Fern. She talked a lot of shit to Fern, but she still wants to satisfy her first student's dying wish. It's all the more irritating to her that her hopes in Flamme's promise are tied to Serie's philosophical opposition concerning magic. Serie she has too much pride to fail Fern arbitrarily because she would remember for the remainder of her days that she squandered someone who she actually holds interested in over a petty grudge.

I assume it's the boobs? Cause she's a really boring character.

She's not even dressed provocatively for booba character though.
Methode is one of the bigger reasons I hate this arc, especially the 2nd test. She possesses a wide array of abilities strictly for plot reasons because if she didn't, the bad writing would be full of holes in how the 2nd test is conducted.

edit:
- No healer because this is mage exam? She has a holy book and is quite good at healing. (Frieren also has one)
- Probably the most dangerous clone is Fern after Frieren and Sense? Methode has exceptional mana sense!
- Not sure where all the clones are and worried about an ambush? Methode's mana sense goes far! (So does Denken's)
- What if we need to restrain Fern's clone? Well, Methode specializes in that as well (but didn't she specialize in shield magic an episode ago?)

The author also forgets when they previously established users who can do similar stuff but for some reason don't during this exam?

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-16-2024, 10:13 AM

Methode is one of the bigger reasons I hate this arc, especially the 2nd test. She possesses a wide array of abilities strictly for plot reasons because if she didn't, the bad writing would be full of holes in how the 2nd test is conducted.Yes to all of that. She was just this weird Swiss Army knife of whatever power the writer needed them to have. And instead of reinforcing the "teamwork" theme by spreading those abilities around, the writer was just like "Well, Methode can do that too."

MFauli

Sat, 03-16-2024, 10:17 AM

I mean, wouldn't Frieren be a swiss army knife, too? The problem is, we'd need to know beforehand what each character is capable of. Without that, we cannot really complain about Methode.

Same way I was wondering about the earth magic-guy in the latest episode: Frieren really doesn't know a spell to put together the broken wand? But that guy does? Kinda arbitrary. You'd think a 700 year old mage would have bothered to learn repair-spells at some time.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-16-2024, 10:25 AM

The difference is that Frieren is literally over a 1000 years old and her main hobby is collecting magic spells regardless of what they do. We expect her to have lots of variety because we've been shown that. She has a spell to turn grapes sour, and the first thing she does with it is visit her dwarf friend who likes sour grapes. Her favorite spell is still the one that grows a field of flowers that she learned from Flamme, and now they retcon in a meeting with Himmel where she used it and charmed him to look for her when he started his journey.

Methode can't be older than her 40s.

Richter's main job is making, selling, and repairing magic tools in the city where the Mage Association branch is. They did establish that it is his day job, similar to how Denken's is being the Empire's Court Mage.

If we get background info on Methode and why she has such a big variety of abilities, I'd change my mind.

Edit:
The series specializes in retcons to make bullshit make sense later.

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-16-2024, 10:29 AM

Same way I was wondering about the earth magic-guy in the latest episode: Frieren really doesn't know a spell to put together the broken wand? But that guy does? Kinda arbitrary. You'd think a 700 year old mage would have bothered to learn repair-spells at some time.That is a...good point.

Kraco

Sat, 03-16-2024, 11:35 AM

That is a...good point.

Not really. It had to be done in a single day. Frieren originally told Fern to buy a new staff. I reckon that's what Frieren herself would have been doing during her centuries of life. Even if Frieren knew how to repair a staff that badly damaged, chances are it would have taken her a week to do it. She's not exactly a person who's ever in a hurry to do anything, which is one of the core jokes of the series. Richter, however, is doing it for a living, and thus he would also need to do it promptly, as many customers don't like waiting. Not to mention he simply needs to get things done promptly enough to actually make money doing it.

Buffalobiian

Sat, 03-16-2024, 12:55 PM

I assume it's the boobs? Cause she's a really boring character.

She's not even dressed provocatively for booba character though.

Onee-sans that go Ara Ara are quite popular in general.
She's wearing this half corset-hot-pants thing which is actually quite figure-hugging despite not showing any skin.

She's also the "boring support wife" who does everything you forgot/can't do.

She'd probably attract anyone who isn't going for Ubel.

We also learn its only be 50 years since Serie finally passed someone to first class...pretty sure that conflicts with previous lore directly, but nobody seems to care that this series can't keep its lore straight but me.

You seem to forget my debate about shield mechanics.

But, I can't recall where this 50 year thing contradicts anything.

I looked back to a few episodes:
-when they left the town besieged by Aura and the Continental Magic Association associated travel restriction was brought up, Stark said that it's been around for at least half a century.
-In the library where Frieren spouted numbers (unless she's ready from a book she shouldn't have known about it since she wasn't even aware of the organisation), she says that there used to be more mages in days begone but doesn't give a timeframe.
-Richter mentions that just over half a century ago Serie came about and started things up.

The math works out. Serie created the organisation over half a century ago, but the first First Class mage passed 50 years ago.

It makes sense for Lernen to have recognised the Holy Emblem given that he was around before First Class was the biggest deal.

MFauli

Sat, 03-16-2024, 01:24 PM

She'd probably attract anyone who isn't going for Ubel.

ROFL.

True, though ;D

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-16-2024, 04:23 PM

MFauli

Sat, 03-16-2024, 04:54 PM

I don't even remember how this person looks, or her name for that matter.

Ubel on the other hand:
207520762077207820792080

I have 27 other phone wallpapers I wanted to upload, but posts here limit me to 6. If the almighty mods allow me to quintuple post, I can post them all!!!

Saved the underwear one for scientific purposes. But damn, shinta, you really need to reel in your waki fetish, lol. Those wrinkles are really important to ya, huh? ;>

If we're simping anyway: The problem with trying to get closer to Übel is that even if she accepted you for the time being, you'd never know when she suddenly changes her mind and cuts you. Probably even accidentially. Most Yandere can be dealt with, but she's got a specially dangerous kind of yandere to her.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-16-2024, 05:00 PM

Here is a google drive link for the whole shebang: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mrD5vOOA2jqWBdb4yuX7n1mk5y3Jftz8?usp=drive_link

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-16-2024, 05:24 PM

If we're simping anyway: The problem with trying to get closer to Übel is that even if she accepted you for the time being, you'd never know when she suddenly changes her mind and cuts you. Probably even accidentially. Most Yandere can be dealt with, but she's got a specially dangerous kind of yandere to her.

I dunno. A lot of people base her entire character on her introduction with Kraft and the knowledge that she murdered someone in the 2nd Class exam (that the context got filled it later) and the narrow translation of her name to mean "evil" (first machine translate result) without possibility of the other definitions. All the names are in katakana (as expected), so we can't know the exact intent.

Yeah...Kraft saved three people from being murdered by her, but they were bandits threatening to rob her or worse. She knew they were coming and waited for them. She did the same to the last batch that tried the same with her. As for the exam, the Mage Association brought that on themselves with their arrogance. Ubel peacefully took the judgement and followed the rules.

She spends most of the time after that trying to empathize with others, which evidently, she struggles with.

Sure, she's basically stalking Land now, but I think it is a stretch to say she kills people arbitrarily. She clearly doesn't.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-16-2024, 05:41 PM

Ubel is great. Stop talking shit about my wakifu.

Buffalobiian

Sat, 03-16-2024, 05:48 PM

I dunno. A lot of people base her entire character on her introduction with Kraft and the knowledge that she murdered someone in the 2nd Class exam (that the context got filled it later) and the narrow translation of her name to mean "evil" (first machine translate result) without possibility of the other definitions. All the names are in katakana (as expected), so we can't know the exact intent.

Yeah...Kraft saved three people from being murdered by her, but they were bandits threatening to rob her or worse. She knew they were coming and waited for them. She did the same to the last batch that tried the same with her. As for the exam, the Mage Association brought that on themselves with their arrogance. Ubel peacefully took the judgement and followed the rules.

She spends most of the time after that trying to empathize with others, which evidently, she struggles with.

Sure, she's basically stalking Land now, but I think it is a stretch to say she kills people arbitrarily. She clearly doesn't.

That whole development and turnaround seemed like as much of a retcon as much as Edel was. None of the girls were allowed to be unlikable. Ubel's side of things seems to have had more thought put in with the whole Sense matchup, but her interaction with Kraft and his words really suggested otherwise.

Waki

The anatomically correct ones are the best ones. As in the ones that properly draw the lines for Latisimus Dorsi and Pec Major.

For me, the moment that stirred me most was the dishevelled Frieren stare. The defiant eyes after being dominated is simply .. lovely.
https://i.imgur.com/DJIboQ4.jpeg

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-16-2024, 11:38 PM

Reel it in, pervs.

shinta|hikari

Sun, 03-17-2024, 09:48 AM

Why....?

MFauli

Sun, 03-17-2024, 10:39 AM

Reel it in, pervs.

Now you made him change avatar and signatur. That's on you, Darth.

Kraco

Sun, 03-17-2024, 10:46 AM

I didn't believe anyone would anymore bother to change avatars and sigs here at Gotwoot. Übel really has conquered Shinta. Cut right through his heart.

shinta|hikari

Sun, 03-17-2024, 11:43 AM

I fell to the pit...

David75

Wed, 03-20-2024, 01:26 AM

End of season :(

Buffalobiian

Wed, 03-20-2024, 03:11 AM

End of season :(

Indeed. I heard there's an S2 though, so that's nice. And the next season has lots of sequels that I'm interested in so I can't say I'm that said.

Of all the fan art out there, my favourite has to be this artist's cat depictions.

https://i.imgur.com/1TsQtiz.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/lDOkTfi.png
https://i.imgur.com/bAWYTOT.jpeg

Link to other cat-Frieren pics. (https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts?page=1&tags=j_humbo)

DarthEnderX

Fri, 03-22-2024, 02:37 PM

24

---

And that's our finale. The exact kind of low-key epilogue you'd expect from this series.

Kraco

Fri, 03-22-2024, 03:51 PM

The exact kind of low-key epilogue you'd expect from this series.

Because otherwise it would be embarrassing when the next season launches in the future.

MFauli

Fri, 03-22-2024, 04:14 PM

A cleaning-spell being labeled "legendary" was still stupid, though. That should be an everyday spell.

Btw how does spell-learning even work? Do they receive "grimoires" aka spells on paper, activate them like in a video game, and they grimoire vanishes and they got the spell? Otherwise, why not just teach others the spell?

Anyway. Next season, huh.

PS: All the flashbacks with Himmel are ruined for me because of him turning into a dwarf in episode 1, sigh.

Buffalobiian

Fri, 03-22-2024, 06:52 PM

Btw how does spell-learning even work? Do they receive "grimoires" aka spells on paper, activate them like in a video game, and they grimoire vanishes and they got the spell? Otherwise, why not just teach others the spell?

You read it and remember it.

You don't go around teaching it because you might like the exclusivity and you're also not a charity.

Spells and mages used to be common, and there's folk magic etc where people just locally develop their own thing. It's like regional recipes for foods. Logically, one as useful as laundry shouldn't have become obscure of forgotten though, unless mages never do their own laundry.

I'm going to interpret it as just being a gag / contrast.

It would be cool to see Lernen fight. Looks like he's a powerhouse too to break Frieren's barrier. Weird how he'd just request a duel so he can kill her and accomplish something. Frieren's got nothing to gain from it and he should have realised that.

DarthEnderX

Fri, 03-22-2024, 08:03 PM

A cleaning-spell being labeled "legendary" was still stupid, though. That should be an everyday spell.It's legendary because nobody knows it.

Seems to be a general stigma against "useless" spells. Likely a result of Serie running the organization.

shinta|hikari

Fri, 03-22-2024, 11:52 PM

It is an epic spell though. No laundry ever???

My wife would kill Fern for that spell.

Ubel is the best. That interaction with Serie was legendary.

Kraco

Sat, 03-23-2024, 03:09 AM

Spells and mages used to be common, and there's folk magic etc where people just locally develop their own thing. It's like regional recipes for foods. Logically, one as useful as laundry shouldn't have become obscure of forgotten though, unless mages never do their own laundry.

I'm going to interpret it as just being a gag / contrast.

It's all gags. Magic is so useful that its use should have been becoming more and more common over the centuries, not more rare. It's like suggesting that, in RL, most of humanity would gradually forget how to use electricity, while only a small minority would still keep using it. That's just not going to happen. With magic, the only plausible explanation for such would be that there's genetic factor in being able to become a magician, and it's recessive. That just might result in a situation where only pure-blood families would maintain it, otherwise random lucky individuals might be able to, but possibly they would never realise it. Though you'd think at the dawn of the time it would have been so über beneficial that it would have become extremely common, thanks to population genetics.

There have been some "magic goes away" stories over the years, but that doesn't seem to be the case in this series. Magic is as strong as ever. Awfully oppressive religion doesn't explain it either, since religion in this work doesn't hunt down all and any magicians. There simply are no explanations given to why pretty much everybody is not trying to rely on it. So, it's all artificially forced for the sake of the story.

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-23-2024, 04:09 AM

Awfully oppressive religion doesn't explain it either, since religion in this work doesn't hunt down all and any magicians.No. But they do seemingly horde knowledge.

Serie has this massive collection of spells, but she only gives out one each to 1st Class mages. And the mages that make it to 1st Class are the ones that would pick some OP combat spell as their spell. Hence, why Serie calls Fern insane for making that spell her pick.

Serie doesn't run a school where she teaches as many people as she can, as many spells as possible. She runs an exclusive organization where she only teaches the biggest badasses one big badass spell.

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 05:27 AM

If you guys are gushing over a "never cleaning again"-spell, then why not go for a "never pooping again"-spell? Surely that would be an even more attractive spell for a self-conscious young woman like Fern. "WOMEN DON'T POOP, OKAY, STARK?!"

It's all gags. Magic is so useful that its use should have been becoming more and more common over the centuries, not more rare. It's like suggesting that, in RL, most of humanity would gradually forget how to use electricity, while only a small minority would still keep using it. That's just not going to happen. With magic, the only plausible explanation for such would be that there's genetic factor in being able to become a magician, and it's recessive. That just might result in a situation where only pure-blood families would maintain it, otherwise random lucky individuals might be able to, but possibly they would never realise it. Though you'd think at the dawn of the time it would have been so über beneficial that it would have become extremely common, thanks to population genetics.

There have been some "magic goes away" stories over the years, but that doesn't seem to be the case in this series. Magic is as strong as ever. Awfully oppressive religion doesn't explain it either, since religion in this work doesn't hunt down all and any magicians. There simply are no explanations given to why pretty much everybody is not trying to rely on it. So, it's all artificially forced for the sake of the story.

Absolutely right and I always wonder when I see Fern and all walk around in town: These are all people that could massacre EVERYONE else in the town. It's crazy how they're just living among each other. Magic ought to be something EVERYONE learns, even if not everyone reaches the same height. I said it in Mushoku Tensei, but something like "create water" should be a basic spell for everyone, now nobody ever has to fear dying from dehydration. And just teach everyone basic defense against magic. It's actually unrealistic we haven't seen lots of evil mages. Übel is the only one who comes close.

Kraco

Sat, 03-23-2024, 05:27 AM

No. But they do seemingly horde knowledge.

Serie has this massive collection of spells, but she only gives out one each to 1st Class mages. And the mages that make it to 1st Class are the ones that would pick some OP combat spell as their spell. Hence, why Serie calls Fern insane for making that spell her pick.

Serie doesn't run a school where she teaches as many people as she can, as many spells as possible. She runs an exclusive organization where she only teaches the biggest badasses one big badass spell.

That doesn't mean anything. All of those applicants wanting to become 1st class already knew a bunch of magic/spells. Serie wasn't the one who taught them. Serie is just a hikikomori who relying on a plot convenience acquired a huge library and only thanks to being immortal has an astronomical amount of mana. That's all she amounts to. The whole Serie situation reminds me of the idiocy in the Fate universe, where Gilgamesh has the "original" of every fantastical weapon imaginable, as if mankind never invented anything new after Gilgamesh's ancient time. Similarly in this series Serie collected all spells 5000 years ago, or whatever. After that nobody supposedly invented a single new spell, aside from the rare, occasional original from the demons. Those were probably delivered to Serie by some random loser magician who wanted to kiss her toes.

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-23-2024, 08:59 AM

If you guys are gushing over a "never cleaning again"-spell, then why not go for a "never pooping again"-spell? Surely that would be an even more attractive spell for a self-conscious young woman like Fern.A useful spell to be sure. But does casting the spell feels as good as a nice satisfying constitutional?

And just teach everyone basic defense against magic.I mean...we have that NOW and we don't do it. It's not like they teach basic self-defense techniques in school. You have to seek that training out on your own.

Those were probably delivered to Serie by some random loser magician who wanted to kiss her toes.Well at least they aren't trying to lick her armpit...

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 09:09 AM

I mean...we have that NOW and we don't do it. It's not like they teach basic self-defense techniques in school. You have to seek that training out on your own.

We literally have an example in Moscow right now: 5 well-armed, really evil guys start doing evil shit. And yet all the could do is "only" kill a couple dozen people. Most of Moscow is fine. If Fern or Frieren or Denken went wild in Moscow, Moscow would cease to exist afterwards.

So teaching everyone some degree of magic defense would be more pressing there than in our world.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-23-2024, 01:01 PM

Okay, so let's talk Laundry, and why Fern's choice (despite Serie's objections) is literally the greatest choice she could possibly make.

Do you know what the greatest invention in the history of mankind is behind the discovery of antibiotics? The washing machine (https://youtu.be/BZoKfap4g4w?si=XfylaDPp7hD4AgQo) (great video presentation on the topic). Not a joke. It is the single-most transformative invention of human culture. It took a chore that nearly an entire day's worth of heavy labor with middling results by one member of the household (or hired-out) to a task performed simultaneously with...literally whatever else you want to do with that time. Cleaner results, less damaging to clothing and skin, fewer harsh chemicals, and a whole host of other benefits.

Fern chose to learn the most practical spell ever, one that is stunningly revolutionary for the time period and setting they're in.

Of course it is from the age of myth. When magic was in abundance, people/elves must have used spells for anything and everything. Then some manner of regression across the world occurred (probably due to the demons), and the world is slowly stepping back up thanks to the steady and inexorable innovation of mankind.

It also follows the assertion that Frieren and Flamme are right in their discussions with Serie. The era of war is winding down. Fern is someone who values magic used in practical ways rather than in destruction or a cycle of revenge.

Btw how does spell-learning even work? Do they receive "grimoires" aka spells on paper, activate them like in a video game, and they grimoire vanishes and they got the spell? Otherwise, why not just teach others the spell?

You read it and remember it.

You don't go around teaching it because you might like the exclusivity and you're also not a charity.

The anime doesn't explain it, and the shot of Serie handing Fern a grimoire is deeply misleading.

Serie knows all the spells because she's old as hell. The point of her boon is that she is able to grant people spells that would take actual decades to learn no matter how skilled they are. Spells that humans would die from old age before they mastered them, but the elves and demons have the liberty of time to learn. It's why mages like Denken go to her to take the exam rather than live out their days as the strongest Imperial Mage.

I'm not going to spoil the details in case they do every actually cover it in an eventual sequel series.

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 02:17 PM

Okay, so let's talk Laundry, and why Fern's choice (despite Serie's objections) is literally the greatest choice she could possibly make.

Do you know what the greatest invention in the history of mankind is behind the discovery of antibiotics? The washing machine (https://youtu.be/BZoKfap4g4w?si=XfylaDPp7hD4AgQo) (great video presentation on the topic). Not a joke. It is the single-most transformative invention of human culture. It took a chore that nearly an entire day's worth of heavy labor with middling results by one member of the household (or hired-out) to a task performed simultaneously with...literally whatever else you want to do with that time. Cleaner results, less damaging to clothing and skin, fewer harsh chemicals, and a whole host of other benefits.

Fern chose to learn the most practical spell ever, one that is stunningly revolutionary for the time period and setting they're in.

Of course it is from the age of myth. When magic was in abundance, people/elves must have used spells for anything and everything. Then some manner of regression across the world occurred (probably due to the demons), and the world is slowly stepping back up thanks to the steady and inexorable innovation of mankind.

It also follows the assertion that Frieren and Flamme are right in their discussions with Serie. The era of war is winding down. Fern is someone who values magic used in practical ways rather than in destruction or a cycle of revenge.

2082

:D

Sorry, but that's how your entire reasoning reads. Nobody says that cleaning isn't useful. But no matter the time perioid, there's a 1000 more conventient, more useful spells to think of on the spot. If we simply stay at the level of personal well-being: a "perfect heal"-spell that immediately heals anything. A "can eat anything, even stones and dirt, and survive on that diet"-spell. As I said, a "doesn't need to poop again"-spell. A "hair do"-spell. A "change clothings"-spell. And when we just go all out, stuff like "time stop spell", "insta kill spell", or if Fern was shinta a "change all women's clothing to sleeveless"-spell. A time travel-spell. A "love"-spell. Or just full one "mind control"-spell. And, ofc, an immortality spell.

Praising Fern's choice as "legendary" is just one of those typical weeb nerd gimmick memes that everyone does on Twitter and Youtube and wherever and thinks it's "cute" or something. Nah, it's dumb. She wasted a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity on being too lazy to wash her clothings. That's what remains. :/

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-23-2024, 02:33 PM

Praising Fern's choice as "legendary" is just one of those typical weeb nerd gimmick memes that everyone does on Twitter and Youtube and wherever and thinks it's "cute" or something. Nah, it's dumb. She wasted a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity on being too lazy to wash her clothings. That's what remains. :/
Wash your clothes the old way (starch-based slime, naphtha soap, hot water from the stovetop three separate times, borax, bluing, etc.) for two weeks and let me know how you feel.

I know you don't pay attention to the details of a series, but it is also consistent with Frieren and Fern gushing over the pots and pans cleaning spell at the beginning of this long-ass arc. A spell they were both very happy to acquire and one they both considered to be one of the most valued they'd found over the years.

It's not a meme, it's one of the smartest gags the author has done in the series as a whole.

Kraco

Sat, 03-23-2024, 03:02 PM

Asking for such a spell, instead of something more grand sounding, would have been worth it just to see Serie's reaction. Though that being said, following the theme of my earlier post, such a laundry spell should have been easily obtainable from elsewhere and thus a wasted opportunity. Considering what Ryll said as well, there's not a snowball's chance in hell the world would have lost magic that convenient and extremely helpful for nearly all the people of all races, winter, spring, summer, or autumn, in every climate and environment. How do you lose something that pretty much all families would personally use or intimately rely on? It's not even something that would become obsolete due to a better invention because it itself is the better invention.

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 04:15 PM

Wash your clothes the old way (starch-based slime, naphtha soap, hot water from the stovetop three separate times, borax, bluing, etc.) for two weeks and let me know how you feel.

I know you don't pay attention to the details of a series, but it is also consistent with Frieren and Fern gushing over the pots and pans cleaning spell at the beginning of this long-ass arc. A spell they were both very happy to acquire and one they both considered to be one of the most valued they'd found over the years.

It's not a meme, it's one of the smartest gags the author has done in the series as a whole.

I don't understand what's "smart" about it. Nor why an anime that tells a serious story needs to culminate in a gag. But that's probably why I don't like this anime as much as everyone else, considering the hype.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-23-2024, 04:34 PM

I don't understand what's "smart" about it. Nor why an anime that tells a serious story needs to culminate in a gag. But that's probably why I don't like this anime as much as everyone else, considering the hype.

Sousou no Frieren does not have a serious story. Its most similar series is Yofukashi no Uta, and even that has more serious elements than this series.

Getting stuck in Mimics should have tipped you off. Along with sleepy Frieren being mom'd by Fern.

Asking for such a spell, instead of something more grand sounding, would have been worth it just to see Serie's reaction. Though that being said, following the theme of my earlier post, such a laundry spell should have been easily obtainable from elsewhere and thus a wasted opportunity. Considering what Ryll said as well, there's not a snowball's chance in hell the world would have lost magic that convenient and extremely helpful for nearly all the people of all races, winter, spring, summer, or autumn, in every climate and environment. How do you lose something that pretty much all families would personally use or intimately rely on? It's not even something that would become obsolete due to a better invention because it itself is the better invention.

Real-world humanity literally forgot how to make good concrete and couldn't figure it out again until a few years ago. It's very probable for this world to have forgotten Mythic Era spells. We know Serie was alive then, and maybe Kraft. That's two people in a very big continent. There's also not THAT many mages.

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 04:42 PM

Sousou no Frieren does not have a serious story. Its most similar series is Yofukashi no Uta, and even that has more serious elements than this series.

Getting stuck in Mimics should have tipped you off. Along with sleepy Frieren being mom'd by Fern.

So BERSERK is not a serious story, either, because Puck and Isidoro?

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-23-2024, 04:57 PM

Sat, 03-23-2024, 05:03 PM

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 05:51 PM

Considering Mimics appear in literally the first episode and Fern mom-ing Frieren is in the second episode and the theme of the fourth episode?

Yes.

Not sure why you're trying to use Berserk as any counterevidence. Feels like a logical fallacy.

Guess in which chapter of BERSERK Puck first appears ...

I keep calling you out because in the current climate of new anime, Sousou no Frieren is absolutely on of the more serious stories. A world full of death, fighting, conflict. And outside of singular scenes, there are no gags, no jokes. Boring, erm, sorry, "solemn" stories are what we got mostly. And then the fighting in the last 10 episodes or so.

You won't be able to find 5 other anime this season that are more serious than Sousou no Frieren while also being worth watching. So, yes, I'm calling it a rather serious story and for that, making the pinnacle of the season a gag fell entirely flat for me. It's good it worked for you.

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 05:53 PM

The clothes washing spell being actually practical would defeat the point of the scene, which is that frieren's tutelage has imparted on Fern the same love for goofy little pointless minutiae that she has.

It would be like saying Flamme and Frieren's flowers growing spell is actually insanely practical for agriculture.

That's why it's bad writing. Instead of wishing for an actually "legendary" spell, Fern picks one that fits the author's writing quirks. Quirkiness trumps quality. I don't like it. I just finished watching a rom-com with Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Aniston that ends with them still broken up, but both happy. I understand the message the writers of the movie want to tell, but I still dislike it, because I wanted them to get back together.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-23-2024, 06:06 PM

And we're back to "I don't like it = bad writing."

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 06:08 PM

And we're back to "I don't like it = bad writing."

?

Why would I like bad writing?

Edit: Your signature is highly distracting!

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-23-2024, 06:15 PM

What I meant is, as usual (and everyone else here will likely concur), you conflate things not turning out the way you like as something objectively bad, when in reality it is just your preference.

People can like bad things. People can dislike good things.

This is the concept that eludes you.

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-23-2024, 06:41 PM

Do you know what the greatest invention in the history of mankind is behind the discovery of antibiotics? The washing machine (great video presentation on the topic).So what you're saying is...Fern should have asked for a Cure Disease spell.

Wash your clothes the old way (starch-based slime, naphtha soap, hot water from the stovetop three separate times, borax, bluing, etc.) for two weeks and let me know how you feel.Pretty sure I'd rather manually wash clothes than...say...die. A spell for not dying still seems better.

I'm with Mfauli on this one. It's a childish choice that's supposed to be cute and funny. But it's an objectively stupid choice.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-23-2024, 07:05 PM

Is there even a spell for immortality? Because, as you mentioned, that would be the logical choice to make, but none of the first class mages are immortal.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-23-2024, 07:36 PM

So what you're saying is...Fern should have asked for a Cure Disease spell.

Pretty sure I'd rather manually wash clothes than...say...die. A spell for not dying still seems better.

I'm with Mfauli on this one. It's a childish choice that's supposed to be cute and funny. But it's an objectively stupid choice.

The both(?) of you somehow completely forgot that holy magic exists and is explicitly different from mage magic?

Not surprised, but come on.

Normally I wouldn't blame you since we haven't seen a priest in over 12 episodes, but Methode pulled a holy scripture out of thin air so she could employ holy magic.

And we're back to "I don't like it = bad writing."

"It's not following the completely different plot, entire setting, and characters personalities I envisioned from the premise! = bad."

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 07:48 PM

So mages don't know healing spells? Serie doesn't know any?

"Come on", Ryll.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-23-2024, 07:53 PM

So mages don't know healing spells? Serie doesn't know any?

"Come on", Ryll.

No, they don't. Frieren has immediately pointed it out multiple times. Holy magic comes from the Goddess of Creation, different from the source that mages use internally. There's been three entire episodes featuring this topic.

Frieren has a holy scripture in her suitcase for when she needs to use it too, and she sucks at it. That's why they needed a priest to travel along.

The span of your memory is apparently three episodes.

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 07:58 PM

No, they don't. Frieren has immediately pointed it out multiple times. Holy magic comes from the Goddess of Creation, different from the source that mages use internally. There's been three entire episodes featuring this topic.

Frieren has a holy scripture in her suitcase for when she needs to use it too, and she sucks at it. That's why they needed a priest to travel along.

The span of your memory is apparently three episodes.

But I'm not talking about holy magic. I said healing magic. You're telling me that Serie who knows all spells knows no healing spell? That'd be the dumbest magic system of all times, so pardon me if I didn't remember that.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-23-2024, 08:01 PM

It's the same thing. Go rewatch episodes 13 & 15.

The Goddess' Magic is holy/healing.

Buffalobiian

Sat, 03-23-2024, 08:01 PM

The final episode of this show literally had Frieren go "I should go to the church to heal my shoulder. I hope it's still open."

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-23-2024, 09:19 PM

It is also typical for fantasy and RPG and video game worlds to have separated classes for magic and healing.

DarthEnderX

Sat, 03-23-2024, 09:53 PM

Is there even a spell for immortality?*shrug* Dunno. Annoyingly, they didn't show the spell selection process for anyone.

I'm curious if Denken was like, "Do you know a spell that'll resurrect my wife?"

The both(?) of you somehow completely forgot that holy magic exists and is explicitly different from mage magic?So why is curing disease Holy magic, but cleaning clothes isn't? They're both purifying magic.

Seems inconsistent to me.

MFauli

Sat, 03-23-2024, 10:08 PM

Seems convenient to me. For the writer.

Just as convenient as not showing us the spell selection process. It would have made for an interesting scene showing us how the characters ask for spells, how Series tells them what she has what is impossible. You know, EXPLAINING a little bit.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-23-2024, 11:50 PM

So why is curing disease Holy magic, but cleaning clothes isn't? They're both purifying magic.

Seems inconsistent to me.

One is organic healing, the other is matter distillation.

DarthEnderX

Sun, 03-24-2024, 01:31 AM

One is organic healing, the other is matter distillation.Diseases are still made of matter. You're still distilling foreign substances from a medium.

MFauli

Sun, 03-24-2024, 02:08 AM

IT'S MAGIC

-.>

Kraco

Sun, 03-24-2024, 03:37 AM

Real-world humanity literally forgot how to make good concrete and couldn't figure it out again until a few years ago. It's very probable for this world to have forgotten Mythic Era spells. We know Serie was alive then, and maybe Kraft. That's two people in a very big continent. There's also not THAT many mages.

What kind of memes have you been reading? The world never forgot how to make concrete. Go out and have a look around. Our world is depressingly full of it. Is it not good? If it wasn't good enough, the world wouldn't be full of it. Your analogue would only work if there had been no concrete in use between whenever you reckon the humanity forgot it and a few years ago.

Nature itself works on the basis of "good enough", the world humans built is largely the same. A spell like that wouldn't have been forgotten, even if it had become a little bit worse if it was that way more accessible. Fern needing to ask for it from Serie was for the sake of comedy. Now, of course if it's later revealed that Serie actually, with her few underlings, were going around in the distant past, before Frieren's time, and murdered all humans who knew magic, like some Spanish inquisition, then maybe it might work lore wise. With her infinite time and magic sensing ability spanning a hundred kilometers or more, she could have done it. She could have erased magic completely enough for her own purposes, to monopolise it and make herself a sort of goddess of magic. I could see it in her narcissist personality.

David75

Sun, 03-24-2024, 04:23 AM

The meme comes also from the fact that Fern is fast, precise and strong enough that she only needs basic spells to beat almost anyone.
So when given a choice, she didn't need anything for combat.
And writing this, you have to remember that Fern isn't a combat oriented mage of past generations

For the concrete related part of the discussion, my guess is that the reference was to Roman era concrete that still functions properly in some case 2000 years later. A self healing and flexible yet strong concrete that works well in a wide range of temperatures gradients and also from water/salt water to dry places.

Kraco

Sun, 03-24-2024, 06:07 AM

For the concrete related part of the discussion, my guess is that the reference was to Roman era concrete that still functions properly in some case 2000 years later. A self healing and flexible yet strong concrete that works well in a wide range of temperatures gradients and also from water/salt water to dry places.

Yeah, he was referring to that, but concrete wasn't a lost technology. It has been used all the time. There might have been differences in the varieties of concrete, yes, we all know that, but the regular types being used have still been sufficient for their purposes. This episode gave an impression any laundry magic simply was lost. It wasn't only the type of laundry magic that also removes the most nightmarish plant extract stains, for example, but any laundry magic.

Ryllharu

Sun, 03-24-2024, 06:37 AM

I did say "good concrete" for a reason. Roman concrete is self-healing and they're still finding new things about it because even when we thought we figured out the secret ingredient again, it turns out we had the entire method wrong until last year.

I picked concrete because it was the easy example due to the recency of the breakthrough. There's plenty of other things that have been forgotten about from even the late 18th century because something more convenient but inferior came along and now we can't fully figure it out.

Fern's new (to her) laundry spell specifically makes clothing spotless and with a fresh floral scent that she likes.

I don't understand what about this series makes everyone instantly pedantic given that the series course corrects its own lore constantly and is vague enough initially with any concept to get away with it.

If there was laundry magic readily available, Fern and especially Frieren would know about it and probably have already been using it. Fern is a particularly neat and tidy person.

shinta|hikari

Sun, 03-24-2024, 11:00 AM

Diseases are still made of matter. You're still distilling foreign substances from a medium.

I simply provided a simple difference at a certain level that makes sense for a story to make a division for it (organic vs inorganic matter, alive vs dead/inanimate). If you reduce anything to its most basic aspects then we are all just atoms.

DarthEnderX

Sun, 03-24-2024, 11:17 AM

If you reduce anything to its most basic aspects then we are all just atoms.Magic atoms!

Sun, 03-24-2024, 11:37 AM

That's why it's bad writing. Instead of wishing for an actually "legendary" spell, Fern picks one that fits the author's writing quirks. Quirkiness trumps quality.

She asks for a quirky spell because she's quirky, having been raised by two goofs in Heiter and Frieren.

I've said this a couple times in irc but the entire series is this way. Practically, Frieren could just take off and fly to her destination, she doesn't need to do any of this shit. Practically, Fern shouldn't ask for dorky little spells. She shouldn't even be doing this exam; there is presumably no penalty for heading north without a first-class mage, since the problem is you will just be killed by a monster, and even if there were a penalty, who could enforce it against the Frieren gang?

These are character moments.

MFauli

Sun, 03-24-2024, 05:01 PM

She asks for a quirky spell because she's quirky, having been raised by two goofs in Heiter and Frieren.

I've said this a couple times in irc but the entire series is this way. Practically, Frieren could just take off and fly to her destination, she doesn't need to do any of this shit. Practically, Fern shouldn't ask for dorky little spells. She shouldn't even be doing this exam; there is presumably no penalty for heading north without a first-class mage, since the problem is you will just be killed by a monster, and even if there were a penalty, who could enforce it against the Frieren gang?

These are character moments.

Guys, you're literally, unironically excusing the boy selling the cow of his dead for 3 beans instead of the money their family needed. Except these aren't magical beans in this case. "But he felt like accepting the beans, it's a cute character moment!"

:/

Fern and others need some parents to punch them some sense into.

Kraco

Mon, 03-25-2024, 02:44 AM

Fern and others need some parents to punch them some sense into.

Fern and the others have already taken down multiple big name demons, which is more than Serie ever achieved in her life of thousands of years, despite the magicians' association worshipping as holy relics any chairs Serie ever sat in. You might criticise Fern and Co based on theories, but in practice they are performing beyond any expectations.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 03-25-2024, 10:24 AM

It is about supply and demand.

We already established they need a healer, but magic cannot heal since only Holy spells can, so acquiring that isn't an option.
We can infer there is no invulnerability or immortality spell because no other Class 1 mages are invulnerable or immortal (They are aging and one of them got chopped in half. Others know they can lose in battle. Maybe they are all quirky like Fern and got toothbrushing spells lol).
Frieren and Fern already have the destructive power they need. They've been destroying stuff just fine the whole show.
Frieren and Fern are women, and somehow in anime, that means they are always trying to be clean and smell good.
Frieren and Fern both hate chores. Fern only does them because otherwise Frieren would rot in one place for years.

There is no supply for healing or immortality spells. There is no demand for more destructive spells. There is high demand for auto-cleaning clothes, and somehow there was supply.

There is also the aspect of utility.

Having a very powerful spell that they may or may not use one day versus having a spell they use everyday and makes them happy and comfortable their whole trip?

They chose the latter with reason. You may not agree with them, but it wasn't an objectively incorrect one. People choose comfort and ease over longtime investment all the time IRL and fiction, after all.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 03-25-2024, 11:02 AM

There is no demand for more destructive spells.I'm sorry, but that's a hilarious statement to make.

That's like saying "There's no demand for more weapons for the military."

MFauli

Mon, 03-25-2024, 01:39 PM

Mon, 03-25-2024, 01:48 PM

Let me ask this: Why are there no mages trying to create healing spells?

"There are, they just don't succeed" seems like the most likely answer.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 03-25-2024, 01:49 PM

@Mfauli - Maybe there are and they all failed? (EDIT: Y beat me to it)

The point I am making is the same way we are making assumptions, you and Darth are also making assumptions. As long as it makes sense with the rules of the world and can be explained and/or inferred with information we do know, that isn't bad writing or characters being stupid. If you wish it went another direction, then that is absolutely valid.

@Darth - Many countries have stopped producing nukes because the ones they have are enough to destroy the world many times over. There is simply no need for more. If Frieren can teach Fern all the destructive spells she will ever need, a practical daily-use spell is more valuable at the moment.

Mon, 03-25-2024, 01:51 PM

Guys, you're literally, unironically excusing the boy selling the cow of his dead for 3 beans instead of the money their family needed. Except these aren't magical beans in this case. "But he felt like accepting the beans, it's a cute character moment!"

:/

Fern and others need some parents to punch them some sense into.

Yes, that's also a character moment. Characters acting impractically or suboptimally is not a writing error. You were a real terror at bedtime if you complained that Jack should obviously have sold the cow for the appropriate market value.

EDIT:

It's also funny to criticize fern's spell selection from a practical aspect because asking Serie for a spell as part of the graduation ceremony is presumably this heavily ritualized and formal process. You're presumably supposed to ask for a spell that embodies your ethos towards magic. It's a symbolic beseechment/blessing as part of your promotion. It's not like she's a genie and you're supposed to find the correct phrase to ask for infinite wishes.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 03-25-2024, 02:28 PM

@Darth - Many countries have stopped producing nukes because the ones they have are enough to destroy the world many times over. There is simply no need for more.And yet, there's still a massive military industrial complex. Which is constantly developing new methods of warfare.

It's also funny to criticize fern's spell selection from a practical aspect because asking Serie for a spell as part of the graduation ceremony is presumably this heavily ritualized and formal process. You're presumably supposed to ask for a spell that embodies your ethos towards magic. It's a symbolic beseechment/blessing as part of your promotion. It's not like she's a genie and you're supposed to find the correct phrase to ask for infinite wishes.That's a lot of assumptions to be making about a process they showed us 0% of.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 03-25-2024, 02:35 PM

And yet, there's still a massive military industrial complex. Which is constantly developing new methods of warfare.

That did not negate my point. There are times when people stop increasing destructive power because it is redundant or no longer cost effective.

To add, while the world is constantly creating new weapons, it is also creating many more methods of making everyday life more convenient, comfortable, and easy.

Mon, 03-25-2024, 02:42 PM

That's a lot of assumptions to be making about a process they showed us 0% of.

Graduation ceremonies are activities fraught with symbolic meaning and ritual process because that's what a ceremony is by definition, and in this one you are becoming a peer of an ancient immortal sorceress so yes I think it's a fairly safe assumption it contains ritual and symbolism.

MFauli

Mon, 03-25-2024, 02:51 PM

So, did we find out what Denken wished for? I only remember "finally I can visit my wife's grave". Did he get a spell that allows him to access certain places?

shinta|hikari

Mon, 03-25-2024, 03:05 PM

I think he may have had a promise with his wife about becoming a first class mage, so when he did, he now has the right to visit her grave.

Ryllharu

Mon, 03-25-2024, 03:29 PM

So, did we find out what Denken wished for? I only remember "finally I can visit my wife's grave". Did he get a spell that allows him to access certain places?

Not in these episodes anyway.

He, like Fern and Frieren, already has most of the power he could ask for. He said as much across the first two tests and the resting period. His primary goal was passing an exam that he, "didn't need to take" solely for the authority to access the lands where he was from, which the Northern nation have blocked off to all but those traveling with a First Class mage due to the danger.

One presumes, hideous monsters or very powerful demons like Aura.

In the context we have, the spell he wanted doesn't matter. Same goes for all the others who passed. We only know Fern's selection.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 03-25-2024, 03:31 PM

I forgot about land access information completely.

If I were Ubel, I'd get a spell that allows me to empathize with anyone...

Ryllharu

Mon, 03-25-2024, 03:32 PM

I forgot about land access information completely.

You mean the entire reason this overly drawn-out and poorly-constructed arc exists? :3

shinta|hikari

Mon, 03-25-2024, 05:04 PM

For Denken, specifically.

TBH, I didn't care nor listen to Denken's story or motivation whatsoever. I only thought about it when it was brought up here.

MFauli

Mon, 03-25-2024, 07:19 PM

I forgot about land access information completely.

If I were Ubel, I'd get a spell that allows me to empathize with anyone...

She's already hot, though ...

DarthEnderX

Tue, 03-26-2024, 01:10 AM

Graduation ceremonies are activities fraught with symbolic meaning and ritual process because that's what a ceremony is by definition, and in this one you are becoming a peer of an ancient immortal sorceress so yes I think it's a fairly safe assumption it contains ritual and symbolism.And what part of ANY of the interactions they've shown with Serie so far would suggest that she'd have any interest in that kind of frivolous display?

So, did we find out what Denken wished for? I only remember "finally I can visit my wife's grave". Did he get a spell that allows him to access certain places?We didn't find out SHIT!

They showed 3 seconds of Fern getting her spell and 0 seconds of anyone else getting theirs!

shinta|hikari

Tue, 03-26-2024, 09:20 AM

She's already hot, though ...

Can you explain what you mean?

Buffalobiian

Tue, 03-26-2024, 11:21 AM

She's already hot, though ...

Can you explain what you mean?

Lol yeah I'm like "uh... what?"

I'm guessing MFauli is saying "She's already hot enough to get laid, she doesn't need to empathize with people to get dick" while we're saying that auto-empathy would allow her to steal spells with a 100% success rate.

MFauli

Tue, 03-26-2024, 11:30 AM

Lol yeah I'm like "uh... what?"

I'm guessing MFauli is saying "She's already hot enough to get laid, she doesn't need to empathize with people to get dick" while we're saying that auto-empathy would allow her to steal spells with a 100% success rate.

Wait wat, lol.

DarthEnderX

Tue, 03-26-2024, 12:06 PM

Wait wat, lol.That's how her magic works. If she understand how a person thinks, she can copy their magic.

shinta|hikari

Tue, 03-26-2024, 06:43 PM

I added more Ubelpits: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mrD5vOOA2jqWBdb4yuX7n1mk5y3Jftz8?usp=drive_link

I will keep adding as I find them.

MFauli

Wed, 03-27-2024, 05:00 AM

Find a way to properly write her name if you like her so much, shinta! Übel! Not Ubel! Dat German!

DarthEnderX

Wed, 03-27-2024, 07:18 AM

If his avatar gets anymore graphic, I'm gonna have to block him...

shinta|hikari

Wed, 03-27-2024, 07:32 AM

It is only graphic if you see armpits as sexual. Otherwise, it is just a very happy woman wearing a tube.

MFauli

Wed, 03-27-2024, 09:56 AM

It is only graphic if you see armpits as sexual. Otherwise, it is just a very happy woman wearing a tube.

It's sexual because we know you.

DarthEnderX

Wed, 03-27-2024, 11:19 AM

I don't want to know other people's search tags!

MFauli

Wed, 03-27-2024, 12:08 PM

I don't want to know other people's search tags!

I'm a simple man these days:

#massage
#oldman

Ryllharu

Wed, 03-27-2024, 05:55 PM

For a change of pace.

2083

shinta|hikari

Wed, 03-27-2024, 09:08 PM

She uses levitate magic to grab it. Mickey can do it. So can this fucking rat.

Thu, 03-28-2024, 02:02 PM

And what part of ANY of the interactions they've shown with Serie so far would suggest that she'd have any interest in that kind of frivolous display?

The fact that she holds the ceremony at all. She could just have a courier inform them they were promoted if there wasn't supposed to be any pomp.

DarthEnderX

Fri, 03-29-2024, 01:04 AM

She could just have a courier inform them they were promoted if there wasn't supposed to be any pomp.How is she supposed to hand out spells from her collection through a courier?

MFauli

Fri, 03-29-2024, 07:26 AM

How is she supposed to hand out spells from her collection through a courier?

Magic

PS: lulz

Fri, 03-29-2024, 07:52 PM

How is she supposed to hand out spells from her collection through a courier?

Hastily scrawled on the back of the diploma.

DarthEnderX

Fri, 03-29-2024, 09:10 PM

Why is this in my recommendations?! What did you do to my algorithm shinta?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH8TiD1o3Jc

Buffalobiian

Sat, 03-30-2024, 08:37 AM

Why is this in my recommendations?! What did you do to my algorithm shinta?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH8TiD1o3Jc

It's mostly just this being super popular.

---------------

You know, looking back.. during the Frieren clone fight:

-Fern caught Clone by surprise and blasted off the left arm.
-Clone brought up their staff to attack Fern, but Fern blasted that arm off as well.
-Fern proceeded to barrage that area.
-After the dust settled, Clone was disheveled, but didn't actually have anything else missing.

That barrage actually didn't do any more damage.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 03-30-2024, 11:14 AM

It did, just not enough to take out limbs, I suppose.

MFauli

Sat, 03-30-2024, 12:51 PM

This is now your fault, shinta.

KrayZ33

Sun, 04-28-2024, 05:30 PM

edit: Holy crap. Yesterday's Gotwoot was buggy as hell.

KrayZ33

Sun, 04-28-2024, 05:32 PM

This was such an enjoyable show, even though some flashbacks were just way too convenient for the situation to the point where the "they said the same thing word for word!" scene became too frequent, however l enjoyed them overall.

Sometimes they were really good (the ones with Flamme for example) and sometimes they felt like the worst part of the show.

Perhaps I would've prefered the first 2 episodes to be a bit less quick in terms of "timeskips"... but I understood what they were trying to do.
I guess I'm just a little bit annoyed that Himmel became a meme-dwarf when he aged.
Heiter's and Eisen's scenes were more enjoyable to me.

However, if that is the worst thing I can find to complain about, I guess it shows how much enjoyed it.

neflight86

Fri, 10-04-2024, 11:55 AM

Just watched this, finally.

Interesting y'all could carry on about 4 pages of discussion about the mechanics of magic and storytelling after the show ended!

Overall, a good watch. It does have its own feeling and vibe, and I certainly get the shock/jar with the exam arc. I found myself slightly bored with the first ~4 episodes as Fern and Frerin make a low-power duo, but Stark brought the spark of levity and earnestness I was looking for and things got better from there. The variety of mostly well developed characters bouncing off one another is certainly the secret sauce of Frieren.

I think, in hindsight, I appreciate the tonal shifting Frieren does more than anything else. Slice of life mundanity cuts to life or death conflict and back, but naturally so. Fights were weighty, but certainly the 'rule of cool' prevailed. The 'usage of mana' slightly reminded me of how nin was handled in HxH where the emphasis is more on how you use the magic and how good a matchup the opponent's specialties are; that was fun.

The sentimentality of the hero party flashbacks didn't get nearly as grating as I feared they would, functionally serving as a bag of morality to pull folksy wisdom nuggets from when Frieren is unsure in the present.

Animation was a high point as there was great subtle motion and expressiveness that felt like a quality production.

While not an all time favorite of mine (and nobody else's goin by the discussion here), at least I'm ready to join the discussion for season 2, whenever that happens.

Buffalobiian

Sat, 10-05-2024, 01:47 AM

While not an all time favorite of mine (and nobody else's goin by the discussion here), at least I'm ready to join the discussion for season 2, whenever that happens.

Top choice? No.

As one of my favourites, I'd say yes.

Absolute top would be hard. You're up against shit like HxH.

KrayZ33

Sat, 10-05-2024, 04:02 AM

Only "loses" to stuff like Edgerunners tbh.
It's in the top5 for sure for me.

Season 2 got confirmed a few days ago btw.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 10-05-2024, 07:56 AM

In the top 10 for me. I have 2 Frieren rubber accessories on my keychain, one of which is her being eaten by a mimic.

MFauli

Sat, 10-05-2024, 08:33 AM

one of the most overhyped, overrated anime of all time going by general reaction to it. i've seen it win "Best anime ever"-votes and that's just ridiculous.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 10-05-2024, 09:38 AM

I somehow cannot see Mfauli's latest comment here. It shows in the front page, but when I click it, I don't see it here.

MFauli

Sat, 10-05-2024, 10:25 AM

Lol, did my posting get deleted because I dared say that Frieren is not the best anime of all time? :D

shinta|hikari

Sat, 10-05-2024, 09:40 PM

Now I see it. Probably just a bug.

I think people like how easygoing and lackadaisical it is because that is different from the usual mainstream dramatic and/or hype anime.

Sat, 10-05-2024, 09:57 PM

Guys, you're literally, unironically excusing the boy selling the cow of his dead for 3 beans instead of the money their family needed. Except these aren't magical beans in this case. "But he felt like accepting the beans, it's a cute character moment!"

:/

Fern and others need some parents to punch them some sense into.

I missed replying to this one.

Are you complaining about the lack of tactical realism in Jack and the Beanstalk dude? What kind of example is this? Yes, to be clear, it is absolutely good storytelling that the simpleton Jack's credulity leads to actual magic, instead of a lesson about the dangers of the barter economy as he starves to death. Similarly, Frieren is a better story because the characters waste time and do stupid emotion and nostalgia-driven things as compared to a lifeless version of this story where they are just tacti-cool badasses.