Chainsaw Man

[MFauli]

Btw do we all agree that the guy reviving sword guy is overpowered? Literal reviving the dead. What devil is that? The death devil?

Also sword devil guy shouldn't be too strong. Literally nobody is afraid of swords. Most don't care, and those who care, LOVE them lol

[Kraco]

Also sword devil guy shouldn't be too strong. Literally nobody is afraid of swords. Most don't care, and those who care, LOVE them lol

They are in Japan. Japan is afraid of swords. It's illegal to possess swords other than those deemed of some real historical or cultural value. For such swords you can get a license, unless the committee considers you unworthy of a license. What else but fear would result in a law like this in a place like Japan, which seems to love swords above all else? It's only in Japanese fiction where swords are stronger than a firearm. In the West, they advice not to bring a sword to a gunfight, instead. Over here in Finland, nobody cares if you own a hundred swords as long as you don't wander around in public places carrying such a thing. I imagine in most of the world the laws are similar or even more lax.

[DarthEnderX]

Btw do we all agree that the guy reviving sword guy is overpowered?If that's what she did, yes.


Also sword devil guy shouldn't be too strong. Literally nobody is afraid of swords. Most don't care, and those who care, LOVE them lolLots of people are afraid of swords, they just never encounter them.

And they've already established there can be devils for fake things, like zombies. So just because you never see something doesn't mean your fear of it doesn't count.

[KrayZ33]

I don't see why anything should be limited to how I/they fear something at this moment and point in time.
By that logic, chainsaws aren't scary, guns aren't scary, bats aren't scary, X aren't scary, because right now, I'm sitting in front of the PC and I'm not scared at all. And zombies aren't scary because they don't even exist.

If someone would run up on me with a real sword I would be freaked out for sure though. Same thing with chainsaws, in fact, chainsaws probably make me nervous when I'm the one holding them. Just like a gun, you can't stop what's happening once the guy with the sword slashes. It's not like I can deflect it with my fist or anything. And considering how fucking painful a cut is.... even from a sheet of paper, I don't want to imagine how it hurts.

[DarthEnderX]

I don't see why anything should be limited to how I/they fear something at this moment and point in time.
By that logic, chainsaws aren't scary, guns aren't scary, bats aren't scary, X aren't scary, because right now, I'm sitting in front of the PC and I'm not scared at all. And zombies aren't scary because they don't even exist.

If someone would run up on me with a real sword I would be freaked out for sure though. Same thing with chainsaws, in fact, chainsaws probably make me nervous when I'm the one holding them.This.

----

[Buffalobiian]

I find chainsaws actually less scary than sword etc.

The noise is annoying, but it's unweildy for the user for the most part, it's heavy and slow, and there's significant risk of kickback with the chain when it cuts the wrong things. I haven't tried jamming one with thick, fibrous clothing, but I'm guessing that it'd work.

You know what's scary though? Grasshoppers. Fucking grasshoppers.

[MFauli]

Why are we even talking about sword, chainsaw or gun devils?

Spider Devil is the ultimate end villain :/

[Kraco]

Spider Devil is the ultimate end villain :/

Spider Devil must be living in Australia. In places like Finland, where there are no spiders dangerous to humans, Spider Devil simply wouldn't be born.

[MFauli]

Spider Devil must be living in Australia. In places like Finland, where there are no spiders dangerous to humans, Spider Devil simply wouldn't be born.


Eh, I think people outside Australia are more afraid of spiders. Otherwise Australians wouldnt live in Australia :P

[Kraco]

Eh, I think people outside Australia are more afraid of spiders. Otherwise Australians wouldnt live in Australia :P

Hmm... That's quite an excellent counter-argument.

[DarthEnderX]

9

---

More permanent than I was expecting. Was half expecting some rewind time 'nannigans like Kraco suggested. Wasn't that, but still pretty OP.

She got the Death Note!

[David75]

Makima is as dangerous as expected, or worse.
How much did she know of what happened ? She had names, most of them.
The hand hiding (felt like the thing, adams familly), was that what's left of Himeno and her contracted devil ? Does that mean she might be back ? I hope not, she had a proper end.

[shinta|hikari]

I think that hand was the final vestiges of her energy/soul, so after that she is totally gone.

Makima OP as expected, and the fact that you can contract multiple demons means she can have an unlimited amount of surprises for us.

Denji is dumb to resort to hostages. He should've just fought normally, and he would've won the battle of attrition, or at least crazy coward would've arrived on time.

[Kraco]

The most terrifying part of Makima's power is that she can sacrifice other people! I reckon she has sacrificed her own humanity a long time ago. Now she's capable of killing another person remotely delegating the life for a life exchange to be carried by people who aren't even willing, they just need to utter a name. Now it makes much more sense why Himeno was so pissed off guys keep falling for Makima. Himeno must have known Makima is a monster worse than most devils out there.


Denji is dumb to resort to hostages. He should've just fought normally, and he would've won the battle of attrition, or at least crazy coward would've arrived on time.

Normally I'd be exceedingly annoyed by that, but as it happens, Denji has been established as a dumbass, so it actually suits his character and is consistent. It's like he suddenly got this great idea in the middle of a fight, except that great idea was an idiotic idea serving no purpose in reality, but he wouldn't realise it.

Looking at Kobeni's performance, I can't help but think Makima knew, and that's why Kobeni was allowed to join in the first place. That being said, why didn't Makima bother to arrange any training for Denji? Like that hostage skit. Someone should have told him to never try such a thing when dealing with villains.

I still don't know what the enemies were all about. I maintain my stance in saying that merely being a part of Gun Devil's gang, cult, or whatever, wouldn't allow them to organise all this. They must have an insider. Funnily enough they executed all the goons, and allowed the two to escape, so they haven't got anyone to interrogate. At least they will know who they were and can put the police to look for clues and connections.

[DarthEnderX]

Himeno must have known Makima is a monster worse than most devils out there.I don't really see how. So far, she sacrifices terrible people to eliminate other terrible people. I don't see how that's worse than devils that just go around indiscriminately butchering innocent people.

[Kraco]

I don't really see how. So far, she sacrifices terrible people to eliminate other terrible people. I don't see how that's worse than devils that just go around indiscriminately butchering innocent people.

She's doing it while smiling pleasantly. Devils are devils, they are what they are supposed to be, evil demons. Humans, however, should possess empathy and be understanding of others' circumstances. There are people lacking those qualities, but they are considered psychologically abnormal, sociopaths or at worst psychopaths. The real life monsters. Even when the society was underdeveloped and ruthless, like the Middle Ages, an executioner was considered to be a dirty job.

Other than that, Makima is stronger than most devils, I'd say, with a power like that. Strong like a monster.

[MFauli]

It was an okay episode. Too much "bullshit" for now that leaves us waiting for answers.

The one thing I found really weak, though, was that Makima literally killed all the bad guys ... except for the 2 that mattered most. How conventient :/ "She simply didn't know their names", yeah, but then I want to know why. Hopefully that will be explained, but it's frustrating to just have to accept it for now.

Also, how does Makima's ability work? In the train, all victims had small holes in their body. Then she just squashed the other villains. I assume she's got relations with the "fall devil", fear from falling from high up places?

Denji also frustrates me. He was so weak here. And Kobeni being randomly super strong ... dunno. But at least I'm sure it will be explained.

[shinta|hikari]

Makima can have multiple devils contracted, just like top-knot. It was even explicitly said this episode that her contracted devils are a secret. The holes could be from a different devil than squash devil, and her revival can also be from another (unflushed turd) devil.

Kobeni's strength probably derives from her devil contract. Denji wasn't especially weak this episode. He was just dumb and took a hostage, pinning him down in one place with no way to block or counter. He was also fighting a being just like him, so any advantage that form had is gone, so only the fact that he is the infamous chainsaw gives him an edge.

[Kraco]

He was also fighting a being just like him, so any advantage that form had is gone, so only the fact that he is the infamous chainsaw gives him an edge.

I might be wrong, but it seemed to me Denji went to great lengths to avoid permanently damaging the opponents. He just punched the goons. He did threaten to hurt the hostage, but in the end he did nothing to the man. Not that it mattered since the dude was killed by the blade hybrid. I hope Denji remembers the whole fight afterwards and learns from it. Mainly learns that the enemy is willing to kill their own to achieve its goals, so there's no need whatsoever for Denji to be overly merciful. But then again, it's Denji, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

I have to continue wondering about the identity of the opponent. When it's nothing strange for them to kill their own men, it means they aren't comrades or anything. They could still be insane cultists who consider it an honour to die for the cause, but that means they aren't too smart, except for the top, which is exploiting the rest. If they are in it just for the money, they are basically an undisciplined rabble. It could be that this operation, which only failed thanks to Makima's unfathomable powers, got as far as it did thanks to sheer luck alone.

[MFauli]

Do you think Makima knew the names from prior investigation or from using another ability? Any why didnt she know the main 2 villains' names?

[DarthEnderX]

Makima can have multiple devils contracted, just like top-knot.Does he have multiple contracts? He has a contract with Fox Devil , but I thought the thing with the Curse Devil was specifically tied to the weapon he was using, not him.


Do you think Makima knew the names from prior investigation or from using another ability? Any why didnt she know the main 2 villains' names?It seemed like she spent a chunk of time praying before she started giving out names. I assumed that whatever she was doing was giving her the names she needed.

And I assumed that whatever that was doesn't work on other devils.

[shinta|hikari]

Does he have multiple contracts? He has a contract with Fox Devil , but I thought the thing with the Curse Devil was specifically tied to the weapon he was using, not him.

The weapon is likely the devil's contracted form, like Pochita's chainsaw form.

[DarthEnderX]

Wasn't Pochita in that form even before he made a deal with Denji?

[shinta|hikari]

He was in his dog form. He has a chainsaw form when Denji used to wield him to cut up devils.

[DarthEnderX]

He was in his dog form. He has a chainsaw form when Denji used to wield him to cut up devils.He's a dog with a handle and a chainsaw face. I thought he just wielded the dog...

[neflight86]

10

And without dropping a beat, we move into a training arc, CsM style.

Glad that Denji acknowledges that his lack of feeling in the deaths of his comrades is abnormal, though he is too stupid to afford it much more thought.

We now have a 'strongest' devil hunter that likes 'em screwy.

'Future' devil. I like the idea of conceptual devils that are a product of fears we can relate to, so the 'future' could be quite fun, though Aki doesn't have much left to give at this point.

[Buffalobiian]

So despite the term "contract", Devil Hunter's powers are mostly gifts at the whim of devils. They decide what powers they want to give you, what the repayment is going to be, and can pull the plug on you at any time and go "nope".

Seems different to the concept of "contract" we've been fed thus far where you're supposed to honour it (or else... what? exactly though)..

[Kraco]

When Power and Denji decided to put their intelligence to work, it was pretty clear things would go south, rather than produce results. But then again, even that was experience points for them, and as stupid as they are, it would still benefit them to try to think as much as possible, as long as it doesn't lead to hesitation.


So despite the term "contract", Devil Hunter's powers are mostly gifts at the whim of devils. They decide what powers they want to give you, what the repayment is going to be, and can pull the plug on you at any time and go "nope".

Seems different to the concept of "contract" we've been fed thus far where you're supposed to honour it (or else... what? exactly though)..

That was quite enlightening, indeed. It makes the contract, in a way, not really a contract at all, but more like, merely, a line of communication. If a devil is rotting in a high security prison cell all the time, I wonder if that's a good or a bad thing for the contracts. It ought to make a devil quite pissed off, making them ask for a nasty remuneration. On the other hand, it's at least some activity for the devil, instead of staring at empty walls in silence all year long, so maybe they are eager.

Topknot-Aki only having two years of life left is sad. I reckon the Curse Devil takes a whole lot per favour.

[MFauli]

I really hope that sensei has a good explanation for his superhuman speed and strength. Would suck if this was played out as "natural gift".

Power and Denji trying to go the smart route was hilarious from the very first sentence. It was too obvious what would happen lol. Gotta say, smart Power looks sexy af though.

One thing I didn't like, but that's CrunchyRoll's fault: I coincidentially noticed 2 parts that were translated REALLY liberally. One scene, subtile says topknot would have "to sacrifize" something. The Japanese there was "kakugou". Kakukou simply means to "be ready" or "be prepared". And then Denji said, in subtitle, that the sensei was "too scary" (or "fearsome"). The Japanese said, however, "tsuyosugiru", which means "too strong". Like, I know the translation fit the context, too, but those are just totally different words with different meanings. Bad localization imo. Sorry if anyone thinks I want to brag with my Japanese skills, I'm very much aware that there are people here that are much more skilled at the language. Anyway, that just irked me a bit.

[DarthEnderX]

Eternity Devil and Future Devil. That's 2 time devils now.

[neflight86]

BTW, before I forget, about Aki's scene striking the lighter filled with regret... I loved it in Cowboy Bebop, and I still love it now.

[Kraco]

BTW, before I forget, about Aki's scene striking the lighter filled with regret... I loved it in Cowboy Bebop, and I still love it now.

I just found it funny the dude was going to smoke in a hospital room. Well, it was a good scene, I admit, since it triggered his memories, plus smoking in hospital is hardly anything gangsta from a man hunting demons for a living.

[neflight86]

The 90's were a wild time, indeed.

[David75]

I have heard people were smoking in planes, even long hauls... haha

[MFauli]

Episode 11:

This will continue or will there be a break after episode 12? :/

Eisode was only okay. I'm not a fan of the "pretty girl kills strong men without effort" that Makina did, was totally unearned, only thanks to her abilities.

Also "violence devil"? How is that one not MUCH stronger than the gun devil?! Violence is literally a tier above in the hierarchy compared to guns, which causes one type of violence.

Glad to see the spider devil, though, that one made too much sense.

btw did they say whether devils only appear in Japan? Weird to have all these prominent devils gathered there.

[neflight86]

Eisode was only okay. I'm not a fan of the "pretty girl kills strong men without effort" that Makina did, was totally unearned, only thanks to her abilities.

Functionally, that was no different than her shooting/coercing the 'strong men' with a gun. At the regular human level, simple human tricks and tools will suffice. Her supernatural contracts shouldn't count as any less effort. Its like Balalaika capping a rival mob boss in Black Lagoon: no arm wrestling needed when the balance of power is clear.


Also "violence devil"? How is that one not MUCH stronger than the gun devil?! Violence is literally a tier above in the hierarchy compared to guns, which causes one type of violence.

Likely it is weaker because the subject of violence is more abstract and vague than something concrete like a gun or sword, so it evokes less fear on its own behalf. Also, you're more interested in the contradiction of the violence devil than an actual angel devil?


btw did they say whether devils only appear in Japan? Weird to have all these prominent devils gathered there.
It's worldwide. Makima listened to the council of men talking about other countries trying to weaponize them for war, and the Gun devil debuted in the good ol' US of A.

I like the Yakuza claiming their own worth and 'protection' from even worse things, while Makima says that only flies when you're the government, like a true suit.

Future devil is kinda fun, and reminds us that Aki is gonna bite it big time.

Is the snake devil able to regurgitate devils it has eaten or something?

[DarthEnderX]

I was wondering when the angel in the intro was finally going to show up.

Are a lot of people scared of angels? Is there going to be a Santa Claus Devil next?


Eisode was only okay. I'm not a fan of the "pretty girl kills strong men without effort" that Makina did, was totally unearned, only thanks to her abilities.That's...the whole point of the abilities.

None of these contracts are "earned" power. You pay a price and you get a power.


Future devil is kinda fun, and reminds us that Aki is gonna bite it big time.But it's gonna be fucking epic! Looking forward to it!

[Kraco]

Topknot-Aki certainly isn't getting a break. He wasn't faring that well in the previous fight, and now he's already in trouble.

I'm not quite sure what was the point of separating and each of them going on alone. Power is known to hit the road when things get a bit bad, plus she's an idiot. Denji certainly won't flee, but he's also an idiot. Aki probably overestimates himself all the time, so he could have used more firepower by his side. Above all, it's not like the targets were going to flee anywhere from a besieged building. I feel like Topknot-Aki shouldn't be put in charge of anything much because he's definitely not level-headed, as calm as he usually looks like.

I still maintain my earlier assessment that Makima is a real monster, and not just because of her vast powers. Even Hip-Flask-Kishibe seems to think so.

[neflight86]

It takes a man of great confidence (or inebriation) to essentially threaten Makima point blank like that.

[shinta|hikari]

He is the strongest, after all. Also, it looks like Makima's powers can be resisted. Snake lady got a nosebleed but didn't die. This nosebleed killing tech seems different from the crushing demon powers she showed before.

[MFauli]

He is the strongest, after all. Also, it looks like Makima's powers can be resisted. Snake lady got a nosebleed but didn't die. This nosebleed killing tech seems different from the crushing demon powers she showed before.

I already deleted the ep, but didn't the episode just end with her nosebleed starting? Either she dies first things next episode or you made a "prediction" ;o

[Kraco]

I was thinking the nosebleed was a red herring, and wasn't about Makima killing her but just a result of her using her contracted power. She now has the ghost in addition to the snake.

[DarthEnderX]

He is the strongest, after all. Also, it looks like Makima's powers can be resisted. Snake lady got a nosebleed but didn't die.
This is how I interpreted it.

Makima used her power on her, but she just resisted/regened the damage or whatever.



This nosebleed killing tech seems different from the crushing demon powers she showed before.Yeah. She's not sacrificing people for this one.

[Kraco]

Yeah. She's not sacrificing people for this one.

I thought she sacrificed all those gangsters, once she got the names out of them. She looked so happy walking out of the house, as if she had just enjoyed a pleasant mass murder.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought she sacrificed all those gangsters, once she got the names out of them. She looked so happy walking out of the house, as if she had just enjoyed a pleasant mass murder.

I don't know if they'd just sit there and let her cast multiple spells like she did in the temple. That seemed quite time consuming. Actually, I can't remember if being at a temple was also a requirement.

[David75]

She asked for a temple on a high point.
I wonder if the temple was for the soon to be dead guys to feel better ?
Or maybe when using that contract she's open to some attacks and being in a temple reduces that risk ?
Leylines ? temples are place where spiritual/magical/earth energies are stronger, might be a reason too, coupled with height to extend her attack range.

[MFauli]

I'm still hung up on the "violence devil". Some weeks ago, you guys said to me "no vague concept devils" when I talked about it, now we have confirmation of vague concept devils existing. That just opens the flood doors to so many shenanigan devils. I mean, lol, if this were the real world, there'd have to be a "muslim terrorist devil" somewhere :D A "Trump devil". And do devils stop at things that are real or can it be fictional things, too? Like a "dragon devil" or "magic devil" or "Death Eater devil"? Where does it stop.

Btw has it been made clear yet whether Makima is a human with contracts or a devil herself?

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, if they have umbrella concepts like that, one would assume there's a Death Devil that's by far the most powerful.


And do devils stop at things that are real or can it be fictional things, too?We've already seen Zombie Devil.


Btw has it been made clear yet whether Makima is a human with contracts or a devil herself?Hasn't been specified, but seems unlikely they'd let a devil run an anti-devil department.

[David75]

Hasn't been specified, but seems unlikely they'd let a devil run an anti-devil department.

Unless it's incredibly smart and crafty.

With a good scenario, Makima being a devil or fiend could be a good ride

After all all I remember is Makima killing humans, I don't remember her killing a devil.

[Kraco]

Either Makima is human who has lost a good deal of her psychological humanity as compensation to the devils or she was a psychopath to begin with. In fact having been that since childhood seems more likely, and it's exactly why she keeps getting very good deals from the devils, allowing her to become so powerful. Devils recognise her for what she is, a monster, and they don't demand eyes, limbs, or kidneys from her, instead they are delighted to help her, knowing she's enjoying killing humans as much as the devils themselves.


I'm still hung up on the "violence devil". Some weeks ago, you guys said to me "no vague concept devils" when I talked about it, now we have confirmation of vague concept devils existing.

I'm starting to suspect the author never created that many rules for the world of this series. However, one thing that I'd consider very, very likely, if I still wanted to imagine the rules that might not exist, is that there are probably multiple devils of the same kind around. Perhaps the more something is feared, it doesn't necessarily create a single stronger devil, but it would primarily create more devils of that kind. Something else then allows an individual devil to get stronger and stronger.

We already know that if a specific devil is feared, it can get stronger pretty quickly; remember the hotel arc. If you think about it now, the Gun Devil we keep hearing about is quite smart, creating networks with enticed mafia goons and definitely corrupting people even outside of mafia, including the Public Safety agency, because, like I said before, how the strike against Makima's group earlier was arranged, it required inside information. So, as far as I can see, the Gun Devil has been fully intentionally creating a situation where it's feared more and more globally. Yet I bet it's only one of the many gun devils (unless it has eaten the rest over the years). People might not have recognised it before it was already helluva strong.

[MFauli]

The Human Devil - Turns out all humans are devils, but they dominated earth so much that they became the "standard" and don't see themselves as devils.

Just throwing out the idea, I haven't read the manga, so no spoilers. Would make for an interesting higher concept if it ever got explored.

And then there's the whole issue: If there's devils, is there more supernatural stuff going on? Is there an afterlife? So many questions that will probably never be answered :>

[David75]

Makima as a serial killer, getting devil support, is also a good theory.
Thinking back, her behavior gives more weight to how she said Denji could be dealt with at the begining of the show.

[DarthEnderX]

After all all I remember is Makima killing humans, I don't remember her killing a devil.Don't see how that matters. We've seen devils kill each other.


The Human Devil - Turns out all humans are devils, but they dominated earth so much that they became the "standard" and don't see themselves as devils.

Just throwing out the idea, I haven't read the manga, so no spoilers. Would make for an interesting higher concept if it ever got explored.The Human Devil is an interesting idea. Lots to fear from other people.


I wonder how many weird political devils there are from, like, conservative fearmongering?

Is there a Foreigner Devil? A Vaccine Devil? A Trans Devil?

[David75]

Don't see how that matters. We've seen devils kill each other.


It might show which side she is. For the moment she only killed criminals (it seems).

[MFauli]

Don't see how that matters. We've seen devils kill each other.

The Human Devil is an interesting idea. Lots to fear from other people.


I wonder how many weird political devils there are from, like, conservative fearmongering?

Is there a Foreigner Devil? A Vaccine Devil? A Trans Devil?


oh my, imagine if this anime goes the "black people are actually the black devil" route. Although I think such controversy would have gotten spoiled by outrage long before the anime aired, so that probably won't happen.

Still, I hope we'll get enough world building/lore to get a full understanding of devils and how they work.

[neflight86]

I wonder how many weird political devils there are from, like, conservative fearmongering?

Both sides of the aisle have their boogeymen we could meme into devilhood, but thankfully CsM is more apolitical than most western media is trying to be nowadays.

[shinta|hikari]

bOtH SiDeS

[MFauli]

bOtH SiDeS

The most feared devil of them all!!11

[Buffalobiian]

So it's confirmed that devils indeed get weaker (usually) by becoming a fiend. That confirms that they really have no intention of becoming one unless it somehow helps their cause or survivial. Once you become a fiend though, can you un-fiend?

So it's confirmed that devils indeed get weaker (usually) by becoming a fiend. That confirms that they really have no intention of becoming one unless it somehow helps their cause or survivial. Once you become a fiend though, can you un-fiend?

Power's dumb. Shark Fiend is dumb. Violence Fiend was sarcastic, can't tell for sure.

Spider and Angel haven't demonstrated enough to tell. Angel is probably just lazy but not dumb.

[MFauli]

Episode 12 - Final:

So, that's it?

Nice episode, but also not a good permanent ending. I really hope season 2 gets announced soon.

Have to say, sword guy surviving being split in half was some bs, even when Denji explained it away.

[DarthEnderX]

12

---

He wasn't even the Sword Devil. Specifically the Katana Devil. Explains the anime teleport slash.


Katana Devil:
https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2019/tRRDdqi.jpg


Have to say, sword guy surviving being split in half was some bs, even when Denji explained it away.I mean, he's literally the same as Denji. And Denji got it way worse than that in episode 1.

[Buffalobiian]

Even when they're a zombie you should feel bad or not kill them. The fuck is he smoking.

edit: the ED segment was canon. That makes me happy.