View Full Version : Naruto Ebay-no jutsu
SeGee
Wed, 12-10-2003, 02:19 AM
well fan subs are free, but dont think illigal to sell.. or maybe they are? because they dont have Naruto selling rights? I donno http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/cool.gif
Neotracker
Wed, 12-10-2003, 02:41 AM
Well, Naruto hasnīt been licensed.
Thats wy downloading fansubs isnīt illegal.
Chi Chi
Wed, 12-10-2003, 02:44 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Neotracker @ Dec 10 2003, 01:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well, Naruto hasnīt been licensed.
Thats wy downloading fansubs isnīt illegal. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
He is selling copyrighted work. (everything you put on the net is copyrighted)
sangai
Wed, 12-10-2003, 03:26 AM
well about everything being put on the net being copywrited thats the biggest load of bullshit ever, just becasue someone puts a circle around a C doesnt mean jack shit unless hes/she has a lawyer to back up that copywrite second it takes at least 2 years for a copywrite to become active and then its only good for ten years then it has to be renewed by a lawyer
as for naruto its copywritten so in japan if you where to record and sell naruto for your own profit thats illegal but because naruto is being distributed on the net to americans and other foreign no japan nations there isnt any copywritten law's being infringed upon.
what the person is doing is wrong and should not be selling the dvd's at all, the guys is a complete idiot considering the fact that alot of people can download them.
Everon
Wed, 12-10-2003, 03:31 AM
Copywright laws are extremely fickle. Thousands of lawyers with nothing better to do are arguing about copywright infringment. Unfortunately with computers, everything deals with making a copy of the original.
For example, this text you are reading is a copy.
This smiley is a copy of its original. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif your computer has downloaded an image off the web and then presented it you on the computer screen.
As most of you know, fansubbing, in the eyes of the law, is illegal. Any editing, and mass distribution of copywrighted material can be considered an infringment. Whether a group decided to enforce those copywrights is thier call. (Cough, Bandai, cough)
But what makes these eBay cases worse is that they are taking a copywrighted, altered, mass-distributed (without the copywrighter's consent) and SELLING it.
Of couse I'm not trying to lecture anyone. Just stating the some unlikable facts.
Rensouken
Wed, 12-10-2003, 03:42 AM
Resouken's buddy says:
There is a sort-of unwritten nfan-sub rule out there that sed to be followed a lot better.
The rule is this:
If it's a fan-sub for a copywritten work, you can only charge the price of the material that it is recorded on and shipping.
That means that a fansub price should be about $8, tops, on a high quality medium and insured shipping. That way, your not earning money for stuff you don't have licenses on, and therefore can't get you ass sued. If the compaines really wanted to play hard-ball, there woud be pretty much no fansubs on e-bay. You should really never spend more than $10 on a fansub, they're free online and there are distributers out there that charge a hella lot less than anything you'll ever see on e-bay.
Rensouken says:
yes...that was awsome....but I'm a pir8 so I can't complain
ricefarmer
Wed, 12-10-2003, 03:43 AM
this guy is pretty dam smart i should do it too.. i need the money
Assertn
Wed, 12-10-2003, 03:57 AM
sounds like too much work just to make $20
he didnt even do a good job with the menu layout http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif
pc486
Wed, 12-10-2003, 04:47 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>well about everything being put on the net being copywrited thats the biggest load of bullshit ever, just becasue someone puts a circle around a C doesnt mean jack shit unless hes/she has a lawyer to back up that copywrite second it takes at least 2 years for a copywrite to become active and then its only good for ten years then it has to be renewed by a lawyer </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong. Anything that is produced IS automatically copyrighted, even if it DOES NOT have a copyright symbol on it! Not only that, but you do not need to register a copyright. The only thing that registering a copyright does is it makes it easier to sue someone for copyright infrigment (because now you don't have to prove that you are the true author).
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>because naruto is being distributed on the net to americans and other foreign no japan nations there isnt any copywritten law's being infringed upon.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Again, this is very wrong. Fansubs are in violation of international copyright law (at least between Japan and the US) by the Berne Convention. In other words, every japanese show fansubbing group that distributes in the US is breaking the law. However, this does not mean that the copyright holders will presue you. It's like fanfiction. If you write fanfiction and use someone else's character (say Luke from StarWars), then your fanfiction is infringing on copyright but the vast majority of the time it is ignored as it helps spread the popularity of the authors original work. Just keep in mind that it is up to the author in the end game so if they say take it down, then take it down.
Here's some links for all of the forum go'ers who want to read up about copyright:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html ('http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html')
http://www.rexx.com/~jaguar/copyright.html ('http://www.rexx.com/~jaguar/copyright.html')
Jman
Wed, 12-10-2003, 04:56 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (WinG ZerO @ Dec 10 2003, 11:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> its all fake. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
true. These are just as bad as those bootleg HK DVDS
Darkflare
Wed, 12-10-2003, 04:57 AM
all that pc486, as far as i understand copyright lawas is all very true. everything you make yourself automatically has a copyright on it. if it is your original work, you have the rights to it no matter what. what fansubbers do, technically is illegal, but the..so called "victim" chooses not to do anything about it. the fansubbers arent selling what they do, so they dont make a profit, and the japanese companies see it as free advertisement, i suppose.
now, when you take the work of the fansubbers and try to sell it, that is taking the work of the fansubbers, making it illegal. The translations are the subbers, the encoding timing, etc. are all the work of the fansubbers. That is stealing their work and selling it, making illegal profit off of it.
Assertn
Wed, 12-10-2003, 05:32 AM
one of the easiest ways to get copyright for something you do/make, is to record evidence of it, put it in an envelope, and then mail it to yourself. If you keep it sealed, then the date of the contents can be confirmed by the postage date from the post office. At least thats what people did back in the day........
Rensouken
Wed, 12-10-2003, 10:15 AM
I was looking around Ebay one morning when I came around this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=41524 ('http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3369830538&category=41524')
thought it was ironic that all these fan sub groups are doing alot of work only to have it pooched and sold on Ebay.
Kakashi-Senpai
Wed, 12-10-2003, 12:08 PM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ricefarmer @ Dec 10 2003, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> this guy is pretty dam smart i should do it too.. i need the money </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Don't even think about it. These people should die for using others work for ones benefit. They should be struck be lightning or die a horrible death. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mad.gif Naruto is meant to be shared and enjoyed, not to cheat and decieve.
Insomniac
Wed, 12-10-2003, 12:19 PM
its sad but theres been alot of these http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif
pc486
Wed, 12-10-2003, 12:28 PM
Exactly Darkflare. While fansubbing is illegal in the first place, the producers in Japan don't care enough to presue it and some even support it esp. since the fansubbers arn't making any money (win lawsuit, get 5$ from the group) and it promotes thier product once it is released in X country. Again, this is similar to the fanfiction groups http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif. I totally agree that the sale of fansubbed material is not only even more illegal than before, but that it is an instult to the subbing community. I would never puchase such a product.
AssertnFailure: The mail to yourself technique is actually not a valid way of protecting your own copyright and is just as effective in court as not mailing it to yourself.
Judge: "Sure, there is a copy of work X on date Y from a supposedly untampered post, but can you prove you are the author?"
See? Simply put, "[t]he mythical 'mail myself a copy and don't open it' method offers little more protection than the non-registered copyright, and is generally a waste of a stamp. In the U.S., only registration with the Copyright Office is acknowledged as legal registration." (http://www.rexx.com/~jaguar/copyright.html).
/me runs off to play his freshly imported Naruto 2 GC game http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif
WinG ZerO
Wed, 12-10-2003, 12:30 PM
its all fake.
KevKoN
Wed, 12-10-2003, 01:10 PM
people think they are the actual DVDs so they buy them. when they are just fansubs stuck onto a VCD or DVD or something.
SeGee
Wed, 12-10-2003, 01:34 PM
http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/huh.gif well they never are saying that they arent their own... I woudnt think it was the real ones
Neotracker
Wed, 12-10-2003, 01:56 PM
Let me ask a question:
Is it legal to sell DVDīs with fansub releases, such as shown above??
Mordo
Thu, 12-11-2003, 02:43 AM
well just cause no one has said this... maybe a fansubber himself is selling his own releases... no one has stated whoe subs are being sold.
Evangelion01
Thu, 12-11-2003, 02:58 AM
all that i know is that fan subbing shouldnt be illeagle in any light. the material is copyrighted for a spefic area (japan), if it is distributed to the US for free, the company in japan is not losing any money becasue they dont have the right to distribute it there yet.... if a company does distribute for free (Fan subbers) it to areas where rights havent been sold, i dont see how its illeagle. They cant make any money off of it there leagaly.
editing post: simple answer would be to ask a few fansubbing group members, they should know what is leagle and what is not.
Black Knight
Thu, 12-11-2003, 07:25 AM
if the idiots are dumb enough to go up to 38 dollars, then they deserve to be ripped off. its morally wrong but since when has america been a loving, caring society?
zerwalter
Thu, 12-11-2003, 07:52 AM
I just have to say. The title "Naruto Ebay-no jutsu" is awesome! Nice job - it got a laugh out of me. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Darkflare
Thu, 12-11-2003, 08:02 AM
hmm if that picture he has there is a picture of what is burned...OOPS i think ive seen that somewhere before
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/DarkFlare101/hmmm.JPG
sorta looks like...my anbu/aone version..doesnt it?
CoolHandIrish
Thu, 12-11-2003, 08:16 AM
I don't see it as a horrible deal if you could actually trust these people.
I know if I lost my Naruto 1-61 right now and knew it would take me 10+ hours of searching and 10+ days of downloading to get it back it wouldn't be so bad to get them on dvd backup for $30-$40.
But its way too shaddy. I would get it from a respected forum member who I know loves the show and wants to spread the joy. I mean dvd blanks are $1 and it costs about 50 cents to mail it to someone. So it should only cost about $4-$5 to do this.
Darkflare
Thu, 12-11-2003, 08:27 AM
dvd blanks are more of $2+ and would cost like $12 or something including shipping since you would need about 4 or so dvd blanks
CoolHandIrish
Thu, 12-11-2003, 09:01 AM
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Darkflare @ Dec 11 2003, 07:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> dvd blanks are more of $2+ and would cost like $12 or something including shipping since you would need about 4 or so dvd blanks </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Thats kind of funny because I have sent my friend a dvd of Sealab episodes inside a blank envolope for the cost of a stamp. So it cost me about $1.50 total. You can upgrade the envelope for one of those bubble pop ones for 50 cents at a grocery store. And the $1 blank dvd was bought at Best Buy. You can get $0.90 blanks (and not cheapo ones) usually on the Internet. So unless you live in Europe you have your prices wrong. Its pretty cheap and convient (also eliminates 4gigs of data off your computer per disc which is very nice).
Darkflare
Thu, 12-11-2003, 09:30 AM
hmm...dvds blanks normally sell for $100 for 50 cds. i dont know how much you can find them on the internet because i usually dont look for blank media on the internet cheap, since they are mostly generic brands that dont tend to last very long.
And looking at the best buy site, they have spindles such as $100 for 50, $10 for 5, $50 for 25..etc...but if they go on sale, then im sure they will get down to $1 per dvd, otherwise, under nonsale conditions, it is $2 per dvd. i will give 1.50 for shipping, bringing the total to $9.50
TheAwesomeChow
Thu, 12-11-2003, 09:36 AM
I'm sorry, I just feel that I need to point out that before we start talking about copyrights, that we need to know how to spell it. seeing "copywrite, and copywright" is detracting from any validity of your statement.
Sasuke~Ninja
Thu, 12-11-2003, 10:34 AM
I was actually able to buy the REAL naruto dvd's from japan off ebay not subbed ones its sooooo nice
Darkflare
Thu, 12-11-2003, 10:36 AM
are you sure they are real? are there even official naruto dvds yet?
zeratul123
Thu, 12-11-2003, 11:42 AM
dont think you are allowed to make money off it since they havent liscensed it so this might be illegal
Assertn
Fri, 12-12-2003, 02:17 AM
the ones with no subtitles i hear are.....but.......then there's no subtitles http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif
samsonlonghair
Fri, 12-12-2003, 04:16 AM
Since we are talking about copyright law, I think it might be relevent to mention that even if you get an officially registered copyright that still does not prevent anyone from taking your copyrighted material. It simply gives you a liscense to go after them in court. If you can't afford court costs and a decent lawyer your copyright is worth exactly nothing.
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