Bokutachi no Remake / Remake Our Life!

[Ryllharu]

https://i.imgur.com/B8xRvkq.jpg

Hashiba Kyouya is a 28 year old game developer. With his company going bankrupt, and him losing his job, he returns to his hometown. Looking at the success of creators of his age, he finds himself regretting his life decisions as he lay distressed on his bed. But when he opens his eyes, he finds that he has travelled 10 years back to the time before he entered college.

Will he finally make things right? This is a story about a failed person who is given a second opportunity to follow his dreams.


----------------


I'm making a thread because this series is my official hate-watch of the season.

I adamantly despise the main character of this series. I feel a strong level of author-insertion with him. The intention is that he's a hard working guy who just can't seem to catch a lucky break, and at least in his own mind, he ties it all to making the "safe" choice when selecting a college and not following his dream. While he did try and go after it later in life, he just never found much success, even when putting in a lot of work. They also portray him as extremely capable and valuable to any company. "Who wouldn't want a great producer like him?!" it practically screams every ten minutes.

When you step away from him a few meters, what you actually see is a horribly self-serving douchebag who can't accept the occasional setback in life, and rather than redouble his efforts and work from doing indie work (which should be easy because he's so capable), he falls back into regret and starts flailing for a crutch.

So he jumps back in time somehow, and effectively starts stealing someone else's success, or latches onto talented people who have what he lacks. Which is really passion and drive.

There's some degree of self awareness to the series. Episode 2 even dove right into the transmigration genre trope of stealing someone else's work, or at least beating them to an invention/creation, and the male lead does recognize it as wrong. He did it on accident. But he still wants to proceed forward with ingratiating himself into the "Platinum Generation" trio he's landed with by chance.

Who's life is he stealing? Probably his beloved recent boss, Kawasegawa Eiko, who took a chance with him and let him really display his producer talents in the future timeline. The both of them just got screwed over by office politics and economics, dooming Kawasegawa's passion project. They're doing a decent job dropping hints that Kawasegawa was supposed to be in the position he currently occupies. She knew the genius trio from her school days that he now occupies, and was close enough with them to get them to collaborate with her visual novel team 10 years later. She had the same short film concept that he and the trio are doing. She bumps into him a lot, has always had that drive to learn and be successful that he's trying out on his redo.

So hopefully, the theme of the second episode where he started to realize how much damage he can cause with his influence from the future continues. The concept is fairly revolting compared to Saekano, Shirobako, and Imouto sae Ireba Ii; where they're all collectively working their asses off to make a successful game or other creative properties. Setbacks happen and they push past them. Kyouya was consumed by regret and was desperate for a crutch, which he calls a "second chance." Kawasegawa gave him a second chance in the present.

[David75]

I'm feeling that show will get a happy ending.
I'm pretty sure the MC you despise now will eventually be the missing link, making that quatuor the golden generation instead of a scattered platinum trio and Kasegawa not able to score a project to really make the trio shine.
But be prepared to hate that MC all show long, and loving the others even more.

[Ryllharu]

He means well. He has good intentions. He's nice. He's even aware of the damage he can do.

It doesn't mean he isn't a coward who falls into depression from every setback.

I applaud him for recognizing the parallel between Nanako's story of why she felt she had to leave Lake Biwa, his own depression from failing to make a difference, and tying that into their group project.

He's always had the tools he needed to succeed. He just lacks the endurance and the ability to pick himself back up. He's confusing that with opportunity. It isn't handed to you. You make them yourself, which he did with Kawasegawa when she was standing on the bridge. It absolutely isn't stolen from others or directing talented people to get it for you. Something his teacher pointed out with the screenplay discussion.

I too am hoping for a happy ending. I'm hoping this jump into the past ends with him back on his bed in 2016 like it never happened. Lessons learned, but without the timeline altered.

[David75]

Hummm...
So he'd switch back to his first timeline and would have to start from 28 but with a much better understanding of the geniuses he admires ? He then would try to make them successful in a meaningful way, Kasegawa included ?
Why not, but it is incredibly more difficult to convince adults you don't know to build a project together... and actually start something.
And I'm pretty sure all of them are in a slump in that 28 years old timeline.

[neflight86]

... I didn't get the whole 'discouraged too easily' thing like Ryll did. I kinda took the concept at face value- he went to school for A when he later discovered his passion was B and by then his opportunities for success were very few. They demonstrated that his project management skills didn't amount to a while lot in the end, pragmatically speaking.

I admit I found the timeline a bit hard to follow at the beginning- it was only in retrospect that I realized he quit/lost his job, met Kasegawa, failed with her, then went home to mope in that order. Then the time travel. It might have been smarmy if he had somehow wished for it or caused it, but I see his 'leeching' as making the best of a situation thrust upon him. This whole show is nostalgia bait for sure, but I didn't find anything objectionable, yet, except maybe the shoehorned fanservice.



When you step away from him a few meters, what you actually see is a horribly self-serving douchebag who can't accept the occasional setback in life, and rather than redouble his efforts and work from doing indie work (which should be easy because he's so capable), he falls back into regret and starts flailing for a crutch.

Speaking of, what is the crutch he's flailing for? He went home and was sad for a bit; cue deus ex machina. Did I miss something?



So he jumps back in time somehow, and effectively starts stealing someone else's success, or latches onto talented people who have what he lacks. Which is really passion and drive.

I thought Hands off Einzouken(sp) from a couple years back did a good job at selling the idea of the producer (non-creative's) role in entertainment production as a person who organizes the 'talent' in a way where they can produce something on time and under budget... This seems like the same idea: someone has to lead the creators to create in a group project setting.



Who's life is he stealing? Probably his beloved recent boss, Kawasegawa Eiko, who took a chance with him and let him really display his producer talents in the future timeline. The both of them just got screwed over by office politics and economics, dooming Kawasegawa's passion project. They're doing a decent job dropping hints that Kawasegawa was supposed to be in the position he currently occupies.

Is that the implication? That she was with them at this time instead? What hints suggest she was the one directing them in the original timeline?

I agree with the sentiment that the first couple eps didn't introduce the two elements of storytelling they were sure to highlight to the audience: a foil and flaws, ironically. His solution to the class project being untenable was 'lets make it tenable after all, guys!'. That means either you didn't scope the work correctly, underestimated the skill of your content creators/editors, or expect to be aided by magic. I'm sorry to say it appears all three were at work here. Worthless experience, indeed.

That being said, I am really enjoying this so far. Lets (hate)enjoy together!

[Ryllharu]

Speaking of, what is the crutch he's flailing for? He went home and was sad for a bit; cue deus ex machina. Did I miss something?

He verbally discusses in 2016 that he regrets not going to that specific school because that's where the genius trio from the Platinum Generation went, and in the same year he would have gone (2006). 'The Platinum Generation are all the same age as me, I wonder if I would have become a creator like them if I had gone to the art school' Eps 1, 4:30. Immediately prior to that, his sister calls him that she found his old acceptance letter, and right before she calls, he's looking at Akishima Shino's art book. Wishes he could go back in time. Months later of 2016 he does after failing a second time, this time in his room he overtly wishes that he would have, "met the Platinum Generation, worked together, inspired each other, and...and..." 15:20.

You could interpret that a few different ways, but given his attitude about failing, and why they failed, he doesn't blame himself, he laments his circumstances. He worked for a shitty company (lit. a "black company" where the workloads were extreme), but he believes if he chose a different school, he could have worked with the Platinum Generation and done something great...while relying on their talent...though he does mean in a collaborative fashion. As if talent and circumstances are what matters, not an opportunity you make for yourself.

He's looking for genius talent as a crutch when he doesn't need one in the first place. The nail in the coffin is that he laments about it again at 21:48. "Maybe I'll get to work together with [Platinum Generation], and then I'll...finally...finally"

Finally what...not fail? He's connecting working with genius-level talent to keep his projects from failing. That's what's wrong with him.

...and again at 35:08, noting that they were probably in the same room and stupidly looking around at the departing students.


I thought Hands off Einzouken(sp) from a couple years back did a good job at selling the idea of the producer (non-creative's) role in entertainment production as a person who organizes the 'talent' in a way where they can produce something on time and under budget... This seems like the same idea: someone has to lead the creators to create in a group project setting.
I don't disagree that he is meant to be in the producer's role. Or director. Kasegawa is meant to be in an executive producer role, or a director role. He's really good at organizing, wheedling compromises and supporting deadlines, and as his teacher advised him in episodes 2, handling different personalities, driving collaboration, and striving for the best end product.

But it isn't talent and circumstance he needed in 2016. It was getting back up again.

That's why I compare it to Saekano and Imouto sae Ireba Ii. Picking yourself back up. Driving through writer's block, not relying on other people to fix setbacks and pitfalls. Saekano deals with this exact issue of "genius" versus determination across its two seasons and movie finale. The ultimate message of Saekano is about doing what only you can do. Both series look at the idea of whether or not you're looking for a crutch, a contributor, or a muse/inspiration.


Is that the implication? That she was with them at this time instead? What hints suggest she was the one directing them in the original timeline?
It's not that she was directing them, I'm pretty sure she was their roommate and not Kyouya. In 2016 when she hangs with him at the bar, her phrasing implies that she'd bet he'd like to meet Platinum Generation (not a plural, specifically him), and that she doesn't want to waste an opportunity to collaborate with them on an anniversary project. If you jump back to the announcement on the very beginning of the series (Eps 1, 1:00) the commenters on the stream are extremely informative.
- SucceedSoft manages to reunite the Platinum Generation
- Not only did they get one they got all three of the all-stars. "getting one is awesome, three is huge!"
- [SucceedSoft] are actually serious.
It's Kasegawa's lead on this anniversary game project in 2016, and we know from the time jump back to 2006 that those three live together in that house. They're all in the Visual Arts Program, but eventually Shino Aki focuses on art, Tsurayuki on writing, and Nana on music. They collaborate because they're in the same house, not the same classes.

The variable who isn't supposed to be there is Kyouya. Hasegawa is in the same classes, but obviously lives somewhere else. He coincidentally knows all three of them, and Hasegawa definitely did in the original timeline to get all three of them on her game project.


That being said, I am really enjoying this so far. Lets (hate)enjoy together!
Very much agreed.

[neflight86]

Thanks for the clarification.

Maybe in the context of this being an author insert story it is different, but Kyouya seems to be making the most of a fortunate situation that was beyond his control. Yes, he expects that everything will be easier/better with access to platinum talent, and he's probably right. Its not like he snuck into a time machine or made a deal with the devil to go back in time- he just was there and decided to use his unfair advantage of future knowledge, because the alternative is to sit on his hands?

I liken it to capital. If you somehow have more money/resources, you have more options. Why wouldn't someone take advantage of that? Maybe I'm getting hung up on the phrase 'crutch'. What I'm implying is, does Kyouya have some moral obligation to take the 'hard way' to success when supernatural contrivances have given him an opportunity to collaborate with known talent to create something very likely to be successful? Sure, his attitude was a bit wish-fulfillment and maybe mopey, but since his thoughts didn't influence the time travel as far as I can tell, they are a separate issue; only a narrative device to tell the audience where his head is/was at. This appears to be a victimless crime, unless it undermines Kasegawa's ability to be successful, in which case I would expect the story to touch on that.

Maybe if he decided to compete with the trio instead of collaborate, this would certainly be a different story and maybe more aligned with what you had hoped for?

[MFauli]

I'm making a thread because this series is my official hate-watch of the season.

I adamantly despise the main character of this series. I feel a strong level of author-insertion with him. The intention is that he's a hard working guy who just can't seem to catch a lucky break, and at least in his own mind, he ties it all to making the "safe" choice when selecting a college and not following his dream. While he did try and go after it later in life, he just never found much success, even when putting in a lot of work. They also portray him as extremely capable and valuable to any company. "Who wouldn't want a great producer like him?!" it practically screams every ten minutes.

When you step away from him a few meters, what you actually see is a horribly self-serving douchebag who can't accept the occasional setback in life, and rather than redouble his efforts and work from doing indie work (which should be easy because he's so capable), he falls back into regret and starts flailing for a crutch.

So he jumps back in time somehow, and effectively starts stealing someone else's success, or latches onto talented people who have what he lacks. Which is really passion and drive.


I just watched episode 1 and wtf is wrong with you?! :/

There's none of what you criticize. The guy never sees himself as this all-capable genius that you accuse him of. And instead of lazing off, he *does* put in all the extra effort.

That he felt down after the project got cancelled and he lost his job, big surprise, that's perfectly reasonable, especially when you're forced to return home to your parents because of your financial situation.

And "latching onto others' talent"? Congratulations, you described literally every educational system. It's called "learning from each other". Aka that is normal.

I dunno how episode 2 goes and maybe you've read the manga and basically spoiled us some later development, but based on episode 1, the hero seems perfectly nice and well-meaning, no self-bragging, no stealing others' work, no nothing negative.

My only criticism is that we don't know why he went back in time. If this is revealed to be a "it was all just a dream" story, that'd suck.

[Ryllharu]

I just watched episode 1 and wtf is wrong with you?! :/

There's none of what you criticize. The guy never sees himself as this all-capable genius that you accuse him of. And instead of lazing off, he *does* put in all the extra effort.

That he felt down after the project got cancelled and he lost his job, big surprise, that's perfectly reasonable, especially when you're forced to return home to your parents because of your financial situation.

And "latching onto others' talent"? Congratulations, you described literally every educational system. It's called "learning from each other". Aka that is normal.

What a brilliant misread of my post.

True, Kyouya never proclaims himself to be an all-capable genius. But the anime certainly does its best to portray him as one. We go from bum on a bus who lost his job, to lucky break with meeting Hasegawa, to business superstar. They show him starting working for her in a menial data management role, that he excels at, to a month later practically co-managing the whole team, the veteran coworkers fawning over him like fangirls.

You're missing the point on the second part. Kyouya conflates his lack of success with not being able to work with the members of Platinum Generation...which he was with Hasegawa, they just got screwed over by internal politics.

Throughout the first episode, he has an openly stated regret that he would always have been a huge success if he had only worked with them. That's latching onto others' talent. He doesn't think his effort will ever be enough. He openly states that he believes his circumstances are the problem. He's missing the lesson that his problem is a lack of determination to get over the inevitable setbacks that life will always throw at you, not the circumstances of his education.


I dunno how episode 2 goes and maybe you've read the manga and basically spoiled us some later development, but based on episode 1, the hero seems perfectly nice and well-meaning, no self-bragging, no stealing others' work, no nothing negative.
Nope, never read the novel. I honestly hate LNs. My posts are all my own speculation. I call this a hate-watch because the anime by itself has been good. There's plenty of hints and implications that are potential foreshadowing. Maybe I'm catching them, maybe I'm overreading them (I certainly did with that POS last season that turned out to be really shallow and lame). Here, I just hate the main character and his unspoken attitude.

[MFauli]

What a brilliant misread of my post.

True, Kyouya never proclaims himself to be an all-capable genius. But the anime certainly does its best to portray him as one. We go from bum on a bus who lost his job, to lucky break with meeting Hasegawa, to business superstar. They show him starting working for her in a menial data management role, that he excels at, to a month later practically co-managing the whole team, the veteran coworkers fawning over him like fangirls.

You're missing the point on the second part. Kyouya conflates his lack of success with not being able to work with the members of Platinum Generation...which he was with Hasegawa, they just got screwed over by internal politics.

Throughout the first episode, he has an openly stated regret that he would always have been a huge success if he had only worked with them. That's latching onto others' talent. He doesn't think his effort will ever be enough. He openly states that he believes his circumstances are the problem. He's missing the lesson that his problem is a lack of determination to get over the inevitable setbacks that life will always throw at you, not the circumstances of his education.


Nope, never read the novel. I honestly hate LNs. My posts are all my own speculation. I call this a hate-watch because the anime by itself has been good. There's plenty of hints and implications that are potential foreshadowing. Maybe I'm catching them, maybe I'm overreading them (I certainly did with that POS last season that turned out to be really shallow and lame). Here, I just hate the main character and his unspoken attitude.

I ... just cannot see any of why you believe to see in this first episode 0_o Wow.

Everybody fawning over him after 2 months? He just made the best of his lousy entry position that left him with slightly-better-than-coffee-grabbing chores. Nobody "fawns" over him, they just acknowledge his help value and he humbly accepts, never acting proud.

And where does he claim that he'd be great if he was working with Platinum? He merely mentions that it'd be nice to work with them, actually, he only says it'd be nice to study at the same school as them. Even if I missed a scene, he just never comes across as bitter, demanding, or anything.

It really makes me angry how you seem to WANT to hate this mc, even when he did nothing to deserve it as far as episode 1 goes. If there's any self-insertion of the author going on, it's nothing all that bad.

Seriously, can someone else chime in? I read Ryll's posting before I watched the episode and went in expecting some ugly bastard rapist who's nastily taking advantage of young people - but that's absolutely not the case. :/

[Ryllharu]

I ... just cannot see any of why you believe to see in this first episode 0_o Wow.
...
It really makes me angry how you seem to WANT to hate this mc, even when he did nothing to deserve it as far as episode 1 goes. If there's any self-insertion of the author going on, it's nothing all that bad.

1) Read my posts in this thread. I even have timestamps.
2) Watch the episode. I even have timestamps in my posts.
3) Read my posts in this thread, I have justification and quotes from the episodes.
4) I know you never finished it, but watch Saekano seasons 1 & 2, and the movie finale. You'll see the stark difference between those characters and this main character (who I do honestly expect to have substantial character growth and figure out his failings, but he sure sucks right now) when it comes to setbacks on creative projects.

FIVE people are asking him for help and praising him in the span of 60 seconds. Yes, they're fawning over him. All acknowledging his ability to assist them with very different skillsets for each of their requests. It is nauseating. I've seen other comments complaining about the absurdity of that scene as well, so it isn't just me.

[MFauli]

FIVE people are asking him for help and praising him in the span of 60 seconds. Yes, they're fawning over him. All acknowledging his ability to assist them with very different skillsets for each of their requests. It is nauseating. I've seen other comments complaining about the absurdity of that scene as well, so it isn't just me.

How cynical (and that's coming from me, lo) do you have to be to interpret it that way? It was a very standard scene that just got to show that after the lowly beginning ("So here's this mess of a room, clean it up and bring some order, k?"), he didn't let himself get discouraged and made the best of it, leading to him being respected by the rest of the team, and in more ways than just some lowly chores. I don't see the negatives here. It's the most cookie-cutter "if you persever, good things will happen to you" scene.

That like 5-6 people all want him to help them at the same time, that's anime. Nothing deeper going on here.

Anyway, gonna watch episode 2 now, maybe he'll turn into a monster there ...

[Ryllharu]

Your expectations are off. He's a pathetic self-defeating loser. Not a monster asshole. That's you projecting your desires as a viewer in anime and misinterpreting what I wrote. Moreover, I was pretty clear about it.


When you step away from him a few meters, what you actually see is a horribly self-serving douchebag who can't accept the occasional setback in life, and rather than redouble his efforts and work from doing indie work (which should be easy because he's so capable), he falls back into regret and starts flailing for a crutch.

He means well. He has good intentions. He's nice. He's even aware of the damage he can do.

It doesn't mean he isn't a coward who falls into depression from every setback.

He pisses me off because he goes into a depression spiral every time he has a setback on his dream. He's 28 for fuck's sake. You have to either be under 16, over 65, have a terminal illness, or be diagnosed with clinical depression to be that depressed about not accomplishing a personal dream...on two occasions.

[MFauli]

Episode 2:

So after realizing that he accidentially stole the other guy's idea, Kyouya is visibly in shock and feels super bad about it. What a scumbag!!!1 /s


Your expectations are off. He's a pathetic self-defeating loser.

Based on WHAT?! He worked his ass off, then suddenly the project got cancelled, he loses his job, is out of money and must go back to his parent's house. You're calling him a "pathetic, self-defeating loser" over something that would make most of us deeply depressed for a while?

All I get from your postings is that you WANT to hate him. But the anime certainly doesn't justify that hate.

[Ryllharu]

It's like we're not even watching the same show.

The post-credits "cliffhanger" at the end of episode 2 he spells it out.

They bring a DSLR instead of a film camera (and yes, this very much is a problem in 2006, Nikon starting putting out DSLRs that can film movies in 2010-2011), and the other three talk about how it can't be helped, they're just screwed.

Kyouya starts out saying the same thing until he has the first bit of positive character development we've seen for him in 110 minutes.

"Didn't I spend my life ten years in the future repeating that excuse and regretting it every time? Am I really going to just do it again?" with the background showing his actual train of thought, catastrophizing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaggeration#Cognitive_distortions) the situation.

1921

He's finally changing.

That's why this is a good show, and a great hate-watch. He's a self-defeating loser...until this cliffhanger moment. But in order for him to change, you have to recognize that he was a loser in the first place, which the show certainly isn't hiding, nor am I imagining it because it is right there on the screen. Aspects of Depression disorder.

[MFauli]

It's like we're not even watching the same show.

THAT I can agree on.


The post-credits "cliffhanger" at the end of episode 2 he spells it out.

They bring a DSLR instead of a film camera (and yes, this very much is a problem in 2006, Nikon starting putting out DSLRs that can film movies in 2010-2011), and the other three talk about how it can't be helped, they're just screwed.

Kyouya starts out saying the same thing until he has the first bit of positive character development we've seen for him in 110 minutes.

"Didn't I spend my life ten years in the future repeating that excuse and regretting it every time? Am I really going to just do it again?" with the background showing his actual train of thought, catastrophizing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exaggeration#Cognitive_distortions) the situation.

1921

He's finally changing.

That's why this is a good show, and a great hate-watch. He's a self-defeating loser...until this cliffhanger moment. But in order for him to change, you have to recognize that he was a loser in the first place, which the show certainly isn't hiding, nor am I imagining it because it is right there on the screen. Aspects of Depression disorder.

He chooses not to give up, because otherwise this 2nd chance would go to waste. He wasn't a "pathetic loser" before and he isn't doing anything wrong by not giving up about the camera, either.

You keep making it sound like Kyouya is someone we need to hate, but that's just not what's there to be seen. He starts out by giving his all in episode 1. He's then defeated, crushed even, which doesn't make him a "pathetic loser", but a normal human being. You make it sound here like he spent the next years as a hikkikomori, but there's, what, at most a couple days between losing his job and moving back in to his parents? He hasn't been "self-defeating" at all, he WAS objectively defeated and in the process of coping with it. He probably would have started to look for a new job soon, had this time travel not occurred. Again: Not self-defeating.

"Depression disorder", WTF. Dude, I suffer from depression. Since (at least) I'm 26, now I'm 35 and it's still ongoing. Kyouya does NOT have a disorder for feeling down for a couple days after being fired, right after spending the last month working hard on a then-cancelled project. His reaction is MOST NORMAL. It couldn't be more normal. You must have never experienced defeat in your life if you call his reaction a "disorder". :/ ("I have, bla bla").

Seriously, I won't reply to your postings here anymore until some other people have chimed in. Guys, do you agree with Ryll's takes on Kyouya as a "pathetic self-defeating loser" who one must hate?

[Ryllharu]

Wall of Text for Episode 3!



-------------------
Definitely still grossed out by the way the overall presentation as a whole keeps puffing Kyouya up as some kind of genius composition director. But I was happier that the trio's reaction was, "You're not going to show us up next time!!"

One thing that really irritates me in anime and manga is how creative projects in terms of visual arts (short films, music videos, feature length films, etc.) are always treated like they're some high-minded amazing concept that draws out emotions and are praised so highly, when they're usually kinda lame and trite. Which is weird, coming from mangaka and writers who really do know how to invoke emotion, but the "play within a play," the "film within a film" stuff is always so cliché.

Using a train station and a person getting older when the theme is "Time"? How original! It's like the writer puts no effort into this stuff, then turns around and uses their author agency to tell the audience how amazing it was. Which frankly, is shit writing. It's worse when the primary story is actually well written, as this one is.

There's exceptions like bakuman and Glass Mask. But it's just annoying.

This setback they all overcame was nicely set up with the photo Random Collection of Conveniently Gathered Mentors Club grabbing Kyouya before to provide the introduction, and make it more plausible that Kyouya would be able to pull it off. He has image-editing experience from the 2016 timeline, but not photo composition. Where a few scenes thus far have really stretched the suspension of disbelief (like the 'using a train station to capture the theme of time' being in any remote way innovative in 2006), this one was properly set up and payed off accordingly.

...and then they ruin it with Kawasegawa's reaction to their film in the very next scene. For fuck's sake...show, don't tell. Leaving them in third place out of at least 40 groups was good, but they turn around and reinforce it like the Kitayama House team's film was flawless. I wanted to see Kawasegawa's similar train station story, but instead we're just told it was amazing.

If I'm right that Kyouya is stealing Kawasegawa's place in the timeline, it looks like it might be at least partially correcting itself with their teacher mandating that she works with their group the next time.

Also, no surprise, they're related. They tried obscuring the photo on her desk in the last episode, but it was kind of obvious (and again, a well-written foreshadowing, so the inconsistency of this series' writing baffles me). I saw a few people suggesting they were mother and daughter, but this makes a lot more sense.

Why would uploading Nanako's singing be somehow less embarassing when put in niconico (the reference he's making) over youtube, break, or youtube on MySpace? Foreign language content has always been harder to find on youtube.

I guess we can assume that he'll introduce Aki to Pixiv in a year. I can't roll my eyes hard enough sometimes.

Overall, I am pleased that the three are using him as a rival, and the series is not portraying it as he's the reason they can be successful. That's a really obnoxious trope in anime and I'm glad this series is actively pushing away from it.

[David75]

My guess Kyouya serves as a catalyst for the group to get better even faster and get a much better life and career.
I'm pretty sure the trio in the future is a bit like Hasegawa, cool middle class level jobs, but still tight and most of all not using their full potential just to meet industry/job demands... Instead of having a lot more freedom and people good at dealing with tedious tasks.

As for Kyouya, he already understands he's one of the supporting people. He's good at what he does, a good support, but knows he's not talented enough. Just being able to provide the best support there is to the geniuses he works with probably will be enough for him to live a fulfiling life.

But let's not forget we do not know how long he remains in the past and it's not sure what he does in that past works at all in that worldline. It's entirely possible he comes back to his former worldline, but at least with a goal of getting the platinum generation members to gold level (maybe strip the L for even more emphasis :))

I also thought the idea was pretty standard and fully agree with Hasegawa sensei who was not fooled at all. I think I've seen clones of idea so many times I can't count them on all the fingers I have... even prior to 2006 and even in box office movies.
In fact it probably is in a movie director techniques for dummies book somewhere...

[MFauli]

These "movies inside movies" - I'm split on that. On one hand, it was lame, yeah. On the other hand, if it was really interesting, then 1.) I'd probably want THAT to be made into a full anime, lol, and 2.) it'd make Kyouya look like the genius that Ryll is hating him for. Fuck, I remember Shidonia no Kishi, when they showed a clip of a BLAME-anime ... we still haven't got a proper BLAME-anime series :( So I'm okay with these "lame" movies-inside-movies.

The whole episode was rather pleasant. My only criticism would be that ... it feels like the show is shifting from "this is about my career in the creative industry" to "this is my harem, who should i choose?!". :D He got deeeeep in on both the girls this episode, both definitely acting as if they have a crush on him, whether that's the case or not. Hell, if Kyouya was less oblivious, he could have easily gone in for the kiss during his scene with Nanako. That all feels a bit weird, because it wasn't prominent in the first 2 episodes (albeit it had some hints of that, too). I'd be okay with some romance plot, BUT pls no pointless teasing. I don't need 12 episodes of subtle flirting, only for Kyouya to end up without either of them at the end. Just don't waste our time with that stuff then to begin with.

As for Kyouya's career ...I'm actually wondering what he needs that time jump now anymore. He's got the skills already for being a good producer. The project in the future didn't fail because of him, but for outside reasons. So ... what's he gonna use those extra years for? Simple relationship-building to get a headstart inside the industry? Or will he actually start acquiring an art skill? Now, video editing is a nice art skill, but if he doesn't become a youtuber, he probably won't get much recognition for it.So ... again, will he learn something in those extra years?

[Ryllharu]

Well, don't forget that Kyouya's "original" concept was based on a short story that Tsurayuki apparently included later on in an anthology. The actual Platinum Generation scenario writer. Kyouya stole it on accident, and the anime is using that as a warning for Kyouya not to use his future-knowledge in his little transmigration here. In this specific instance, I would be justified, but thankfully, Kyouya isn't a shitbag as transmigrators go.

I've always assumed Kawasegawa is his destined love interest. They meet later on in life anyway. Their connection is built on respect in either timeline (which is cute), and they compliment each other well in terms of producer and project manager talents. I'm hoping David is right and Kyouya's influence is going to push the Platinum Generation trio to even higher levels. We didn't really get a sense of how they're doing in the future aside from they're all famous and Aki's art sells really well and N@NA's music is extremely well regarded. But we do know they haven't collaborated in a long time.

Obviously, I've never once felt he needed the timejump back. But what he can do is get an even broader education to understand how to manage those skillsets in others as time goes on, and more importantly, not work for the black company he wasted a lot of time at, since he retained all those skillsets.

[MFauli]

Ryll, what's your excuse for Kawasegawa ALSO working for that "black company" in the future? She went to art university by default, yet she also ended up there. I haven't seen you criticize her.

[Ryllharu]

I do not need one because you're confused.

Kyouya has had four jobs after college in the original timeline.
1. Something straight out of business school. Which he quit after regretting not following his dream.
2. The "black" game company that worked him to death and folded anyway (his former boss seen in his dream sequence in eps 1). He rode the night bus home.
3. Something like job #1 again after that company flopped, but before he met Kawasegawa on the footbridge.
4. SucceedSoft after being hired by Kawasegawa. When their division was laid off, he rode the night bus home again.

Two different game companies. SucceedSoft isn't the "black" company.

We don't know what she did between school and switching over to project manager of a visual novel branch of SucceedSoft instead of pursuing film, television, her sister's career path in general. At least not yet. But there certainly may be time to speculate on her if Kyouya's time jump ends. I'm a little less wary of their interplay now that her sister has mandated that Eiko work with Kyouya's team, drastically reducing the chance that he is "stealing" her place.

[MFauli]

Because you're so insistent on the word "stealing": Isn't that technically part of ANY time travel? Just looking at one of the most popular time travel movies, Back to the Future: Marty changes the future so that his dad is now a succesful scifi author, his mom is, afaik, a lawyer, and his two siblings have successful careers, too. The consequence of all that is that other people had their future stolen. Another scifi-author didn't get a publishing contract, other lawyer didn't get the job, other candidates didn't get to enroll at the same school, and so on.But I've never seen any widespread "Marty is a pathetic loser who stole others' future" complaints.

Time travelling and changing ANYTHING could always boild down to "stealing". But nobody complains about it. You do, exclusively on this anime. Just find it weird. :>

[Ryllharu]

Putting aside how much you're missing/forgetting in the introductory details and story beats of BttF 1&2, including Marty stealing his own father's place in the timeline...


But nobody complains about it. You do, exclusively on this anime. Just find it weird. :>

I do exclusively here so far, because there aren't a lot of us commenting. Go elsewhere and you'll find other people making the same comments (who for the record are not me, I use the same name at those places).

[neflight86]

So the Gary Stu got a little strong here, but what sets Kyouya apart from, say SAO's Kirito (the OG wish fulfillment vessel) and his like, is that Kyouya still puts in effort and has some semblance of personality.

Yes, the harem is quickly forming, and yes, the contrivances are cliché, but this is still a serviceable feel good watch. That being said, we need more speed bumps and tension before things veer into further worship of the main character.

[Ryllharu]

Episode 4


--------------

Are we finally starting to see some of the consequences of Kyouya's injection into the timeline? On the whole, it does seem like he is accelerating the Platinum Generation trio along their path, but at the same time, there's also some missteps.

It's comes off pretty clear that Kawasegawa was meant to confront Nanako and drive her to singing. It's been a whole semester and Kyouya has been coddling Nanako to slowly improve her singing, but not actual do the painful things to actually improve. It seems like he stupidly hasn't realized she's N@NA though. Which is baffling to me at least. Voice actors can be good at obscuring who they are when they have really good range, but singing is tough. People lose those extra tones. Sometimes they lose their accents entirely. It's easy for me to recognize singers by their distinct voice.

Either way, Kyouya undid all the potential damage he might have caused to the timeline, and pushed Nanako toward her dream with Kawasegawa lighting the fuse.

As for the pink-haired senpai, perhaps this was how Kawasegawa got into game development instead of film?

All in all, this episode was dense, but also seemed really fast.

[MFauli]

God, I hate these prepubscent-looking "adult" characters in anime -____-

Anyway. I found the last scene hilariously bad. "See, all it takes is computer-alteration, THEN your voice isn't that terrible!" LOL
I honestly half-expected Nanako to open the door and slap him in the face, shouting "How dare you?!". But this anime isn't that serious of a drama for that, I guess.

Tbh I find the whole anime kinda all-over-the-place atm. It just doesn't feel like Kyouya is benefitting from his time there other than, duh, getting a couple extra years to his lifetime and enjoying a different college life. But as for the premise of the show (failed producer gets to redo his life), I don't see how any of what's going on rn is gonna change his life, unless it's about making relations to these other people, which would be a scummy thing, lol. So, just looking at Kyouya as a producer who's trying to get better and more successful, I'm kinda lost plot-wise.

I mean, we get to see how the "Platinum generation" started out - maybe seeing their beginnings will spark something in Kyouya later on?

Edit:

Also it must be mentioned: Did he see Kawasegawa's bare boobs or did he not? It's not entirely clear, because they cut away rather early. If he did, then this episode had WAY too little talk about it, lol :P My first though was "ok, that's the first flag for them to become a couple in the future, because only her future husband gets to see them" :P

[shinta|hikari]

I don't see how any of what's going on rn is gonna change his life, unless it's about making relations to these other people, which would be a scummy thing, lol.

That's 90% of the reason people get and/or stay rich/famous/powerful.

[MFauli]

That's 90% of the reason people get and/or stay rich/famous/powerful.

Sure, but I'd expect an anime about redoing your life to have deeper reasons than "LOL, gonna take advantage and meet influential people to improve my future". At that point he could just bet money on stuff he knows will happen.

[David75]

Sure, but I'd expect an anime about redoing your life to have deeper reasons than "LOL, gonna take advantage and meet influential people to improve my future". At that point he could just bet money on stuff he knows will happen.

Well, he could go: I know so much more about young women I'm going to have the time of my life...

It might not be the best delivery/scenario. But it could be a lot worse.

Watching for Kawasegawa for now.

[neflight86]

I feel that this show is asking us to take its plot points at face value because it doesn't want to or can't take the time to build the proper progression of the story. Plenty of people are good and and get good at things they aren't passionate about- no need to tell her that she is wasting talent because she's trying something different. We're expected to take what Kawasegawa is saying at face value, but I disagree on a fundamental level. After all, the wholistic result of their team still beat out the better 'raw' acting for that one assignment. 'Perfection' is the enemy of 'good', as they say.

This has sadly become a very fluffy, soft-ball show where drama exists seemingly to help MC build his harem and show off his time travel wisdom; not bad, but I was hoping for more. The animation is still looking sharp, at least.

[Ryllharu]

Episode 5

-------------




What a bullshit episode.

The first half was largely rehash and fanservice which felt like filler (because it was), and the second half immediately broke suspension of disbelief.
1) Why would the concert staff call Kyouya to resolve their no-show?!
He's not in the music program. He wasn't involved with setting it up. His club senpai is in the music club, is standing right there, was part of the program from the start, and absolutely knows plenty of other students who could sing on short notice. Maybe even knows graduated senpai of his own who would be able to bring in a replacement act.

2) This would have made sense the idea came from the music program staff, and they called Kyouya in order to find Nanako.
But they didn't. They had to show Kyouya solving it. While he's known for being a problem solver in their own little Visual Arts Program group, he's not known as some management genius. The club members might know he's good at coming up with solutions, but this is completely out of his sphere of influence.

3) Kyouya has no basis in music at all, at least known to his school peers.
Nanako is honestly the only one aware that he knows how to do some sound mixing. Again, it would have made sense if Kyouya was working on the sound boards for the concert, but he's not. He was working the maid cafe.

Honestly, the only good part of this episode was Nanako's realistic reaction to Kyouya putting her on the spot without her consent, while she's standing right there as if he's her idol manager. Seriously fuck this guy. I certainly see that he has a basis for doing it, and I even understand it. Doing things that make you uncomfortable and get over that initial fear when working on something creative or doing it in front of an audience for the first time is scary. Passing up and opportunity like this could very well be something Nanako regrets. But it's not Kyouya's call to make on her behalf. The club senpai saying she could be ready is better, but that still doesn't take away that Kyouya is making decisions for Nanako. He never looked at her once before he suggested she could fill in. He glances at her once. Fucking asshole.

They also almost have an "oops, I uploaded videos without telling her" plot hole, but they hastily fill that in with Kawasegawa asking how he "tricked" her into it, then retroactively show the two of them reviewing comments from viewers with her technical notes from the music program. Which is poor writing. They should have showed that scene at the beginning of the episode, showing she was starting to make serious progress. They show him recording the video ffs, they could have inserted it there. Instead, it looks like the author tried to play up the whole thing as a surprise twist, which is absolutely isn't. Still baffles me that he had no clue who she was until very recently, even with the two of them practicing together.

The other good part was the music. The BGM especially during Kyouya's miracle save in the concert tent. "God Knows" was super popular that year, as Haruhi's first season ended in July of 2006.

I'm not even going to talk about the trash-tier "drama" during the credits. It does start to feel like Nanako and Tsurayuki are more romantically involved that Nanako's minor crush on Kyouya. Thankfully. He just implicitly has faith in her. Even if she punches him when he's randomly a dick.

[David75]

I guess some people thought they needed love triangles in that show... too bad.
We probably are at a tipping point, it might get worse each ep from now.
I liked the surprise though, had a little tear even.

Back to before that ep:
I still think the platinum trio and Kawasegawa were not at their full potential in the original timeline.
Kawasegawa was not a film director
For some reason Kyouya had that picture from very early Aki's art and it feels like in that original timeline Aki probably never explored the paths of creation behind that piece.

But I'm only pushing the same idea again, I think I heard him saying something similar.

But again the show probably will get worse.

detail: I wonder if his loss of consciousness while trying to remember who that artist is will play a role later. I can't remember if we have had prior knowledge of that Yamashina Kazu

[MFauli]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!1 :o

First things first: I actually teared up a bit from the nostalgia. It's been a long time since I got to hear a maid sing that song ;P Nice homage.

Nanako being a secret guest was dumb from the audience's pov. You'd expect someone famous with such an announcement. And then a random 1st year student sings. She did well, but I'd definitely react pissed at first as a viewer.

But then: That last scene :D

I already screamed "BS!" when their first kiss attempt got thwarted by a phone call. Didn't expect them to pick up that event and go through with it! Honestly? Getting some real nice "School Days" vibes from this now, LOL.

Unfortunatel, I fully expect some lame-ass drama that won't reach any meaningful stages. Nanako will be sad for an episode. Shinoaki will say that it didn't mean anything. Kyouya will feel a bit sad about that lol. And then in 2-3 episodes at most we're back to "we're all friends, right?" and no character development will have occured, sigh. That's kinda what I expect.

Ofc, what I want is some severe, dark drama, with lots of anger, tears, failing attempts to fix things, and a bittersweet resolution. Ah well.

Although I commend this anime: The hero went for #bestgirl. Although I will admit that all 3 girls are alright.

EDIT:

Ok, seems like I'm the only one enjoying the drama, lol. Honestly, as I said before: I just don't see the point in any of the school acitivies at this point. From Kyouya's pov, at best he'll learn some more things, but he already knows most of them. I guess you could argue with some flimsy "he learn about team work, trust" or some bs.But that plot line is just missing some tangible goal imo right now. I'd be more interested in Kyouya returning to present now and applying his new-found motivation there. Maybe even reconnecting with his old "friends". I mean, the plot writes itself: After Kyouya vanished in the past, the others all did their own thing, separately. Now Kyouya re-appears and asks them to re-unite. Together, with his producer skills, they go on to create the greatest game ever! Music from Nanako, art from Shinoaki and a story from whatshisname! And because a project with such high-caliber artists requires more handling than one producer is capable of, Kyouya calls Kawasegawa, too! Bamm! :P

Maybe too predictable, but it'd be more fun to watch than the current plot imo. Oh well. I hope for som thick drama!

[shinta|hikari]

Watched until episode 3 so far, and I think Ryll is crazy for perceiving things the way he did.

Fuck me, the day when I agreed with Mfauli more than Ryll finally came...

[David75]

I honestly think you all forgot this is anime. The plot tries to fool us into thinking Kyouya is an adult and will bring the story to a more mature and intricate scenario. But maid café and God knows maid singer :D But I prefered the bunny outfit and Haruhi's concert animation was better too.
Enjoy what you can, forget most of your desires ;)

[MFauli]

Watched until episode 3 so far, and I think Ryll is crazy for perceiving things the way he did.

Fuck me, the day when I agreed with Mfauli more than Ryll finally came...

Keikaku doori ...

[neflight86]

I honestly think you all forgot this is anime.

That cuts, but I needed it.

Too bad anime college is shaping up to be alot like anime high school with fewer class scenes and co-ed dorms...



1) Why would the concert staff call Kyouya to resolve their no-show?!
He's not in the music program. He wasn't involved with setting it up. His club senpai is in the music club, is standing right there, was part of the program from the start, and absolutely knows plenty of other students who could sing on short notice. Maybe even knows graduated senpai of his own who would be able to bring in a replacement act.

...

Honestly, the only good part of this episode was Nanako's realistic reaction to Kyouya putting her on the spot without her consent, while she's standing right there as if he's her idol manager.

Yeah; I autopiloted right past that. Thanks for pointing it out. His street cred for producing should come second to the actual organizer's Plan B. Someone with a job didn't show up? Tell me it ain't so! Also agreed that putting her on the spot without any of the flashbacks being held for convincing her was dirty pool, mister.


But maid café and God knows maid singer :D But I prefered the bunny outfit and Haruhi's concert animation was better too.

Picking up on a quasi Haruhi reference is the kind of boomer commentary I visit gotwoot for.

[David75]

I feel older for some reason after reading you @neflight86

The Haruhi reference was not hard to remember for anime fans that were already watching anime in 2006. Even though I admitt it's possible to forget most anime. But in my case I remember having chills and teary eyes when I first heard/watched that scene and had the guitar intro as a ringtone for a while. I even had a boomer customer frowning when he heard that ringtone, haha, he was not into rock music I tell you :D

[neflight86]

Heh, I'm with you- To be clear, the boomer gag is apparently a dig at zoomers, who label anyone older than them as boomers (which I totally must be also).

[David75]

Jab for jab, as boomers do :D

[David75]

New ep

Not much to say, except maybe the dumbest idea there is to get some money to pay for your tuition in a short time...

Kawasegawa's concern and the blank film strip at the end of each ep had me thinking : what if getting the trio, or even the quatuor, to higher skies means a bad end for Kyuoya. What if in fact his present 28 y old boring timeline is the best he can ever achieve and all alternatives are dead ends ?

[Ryllharu]

The timing actual works out in this instance for obtaining money quickly. Winter Comiket is close to where they are now, since the festival was in the fall. Can they get it done that quickly? I very much doubt it. Not to ping on Saekano again, but it does share a lot of the same elements as this series, just done better. They attempt to get a game done during summer break and fail at least once. That's incredibly long hours and crunch basically from the start (except for their music composer).

One will assume the Platinum Trio is still going to classes while working the game.

The other problem is that I'm pretty sure the premise is kinda silly to start with? I'm from the US, where loans are king, and university prices are insane. But at affordable universities, you could work your way through and graduate with no debt. Especially in 2006 (not so much now). But this is Japan, where the government is more involved, exams are critical to getting in to most universities, so I looked it up because it must be different.

It has flipped since 2006. In 2006, Japan had the highest tuitions in the world...at 2,000,000 yen (18,000 USD) per year, after all the fees.

Laughable by today's US standards, where a student's debt will be 100,000 - 200,000 USD after four years. My tuition slowly creeped up to 18k USD by the time I graduated. Japan's current university tuitions are locked by their government, and have stayed basically the same since 2006.

Japan has a higher standard of living, but 18k per year is below the poverty line in the US. That's easy money to make. Minimum wage in Japan in 2006 was a sad 673 yen/hour. At 20 hours a week (easy shit for a student), that's...700,000 yen per year.

So maybe it is realistic after all, taking away living expenses. In cities, pay should be higher, and evening jobs in Tokyo today are like 1250/hour.

[MFauli]

Kinda mediocre episode. Ignoring the relationship with Shinoaki feels cheap and convenient. I hope they don't just kinda overlook it and act like nothing ever happened.

Dangerous moment: When Kyouya used his knowledge of the future to decide on what kind of game to make. That's villain behavior imo. But I guess as long as he doesn't straight up copy a specific game from the future, it's okay.

Current low point: The shitty "adult loli". It's so dumb.


It has flipped since 2006. In 2006, Japan had the highest tuitions in the world...at 2,000,000 yen (18,000 USD) per year, after all the fees.

Laughable by today's US standards, where a student's debt will be 100,000 - 200,000 USD after four years. My tuition slowly creeped up to 18k USD by the time I graduated. Japan's current university tuitions are locked by their government, and have stayed basically the same since 2006.

Japan has a higher standard of living, but 18k per year is below the poverty line in the US. That's easy money to make. Minimum wage in Japan in 2006 was a sad 673 yen/hour. At 20 hours a week (easy shit for a student), that's...700,000 yen per year.

What good is making 700k when you just said 2 mio are necessary?

I'll ignore the condecending "making 18k dollars per year is easy to make ... ugh ...

[Ryllharu]

What good is making 700k when you just said 2 mio are necessary?

I'll ignore the condecending "making 18k dollars per year is easy to make ... ugh ...
Think of that post as an analysis as I was writing it. I started researching thinking it was either stupid they were trying (current US tuitions), or trivial (as with countries where tuition is tax-funded if you passed the entrance exams). But as I learned, Japan at the time was the most expensive university in the world, though it has stayed effectively at that point for nearly 15 years while the US tuition exploded. Japan's min wage has also increased substantially compared to what it was in 2006, but with zero family support, he would still struggle and never make it.

Except...you don't have to pay it all up front either. It's paid by semester.

So consider the post convincing myself rather than "condescending."

18k USD is close to the poverty line. So yes. US average min wage (it varies by state) for full time will be 15k. So yeah, not hard to beat it, especially in 2nd shift work. I was making $10/hour on twilight shift (6pm to 10pm) in 2005 for unskilled labor. People used to pay for college all the time in the US by working after and around classes. It just isn't possible anymore.

Japan is littered with gig type work that pays way more. Construction, fisherman, etc. The series notably has not told us what shitty job he's working, unless I missed it.

[MFauli]

I do agree that he should have been able to make some proper money with a regular sidejob.

[neflight86]

I saw that muv-luv poster...

Times sure were different before digital distribution and more robust tools (they probably have to code their own VN engine) made indy game development the cornucopia it is now, but I like the plan; turn art into money. And, in case you forgot (as if this show would let you), Kyouya was basically bred to lead these creatives to greatness, so why not get their toes wet early?

I can't let slide how angry the other guy got at someone trying to help him with something he was struggling with (money), as if the drama in this show wasn't low stakes enough...

[David75]

New ep

For some reason I feel like the game won't sell at the big event.

But it will be a big hit/treasure/keeper gamers will buy for thousands ten years later.

[MFauli]

I hate how oblivious Kyouya is :/

That boobs is also into him should have been clear when she did the "ahhh"-thing, too.

And what's with him treating Shinoaki and boobs the same AFTER Shinoaki confessed and they became a couple?! wat

And Shinoaki just doesn't say anything to boob's advances, either!

Dumb situation.

[Ryllharu]

Yeah, the endless external affirmation of Kyoya's greatness is getting really fucking old, to the point that I'm losing interest in the series as a whole.

But it is actually refreshing, though equally baffling, that he isn't really interested in Aki or Tits even though he's been obviously physically attracted to both, and kissed the former. It does sort of feel like Kawasegawa remains the only girl he actually trusts. He idolizes Aki, bounces between treating Tits as someone with great talent but also spending half the series mentoring her or being her producer. He even has started to treat Tsurayuki like a subordinate more than acting as his editor and director.

So...I'm back on the Kyouya Hate Train.

But he does treat Kawasegawa differently. Maybe because he still thinks of her as his #LadyBoss? Haha.

Something twist wise needs to happen in this series...if I wanted to watch someone constantly succeed at everything, I would have watched a Cultivation series because China knows how to actually write them.

[MFauli]

I don't have any hopes that there#s gonna be some amazing twist. I assume at some point, Kyouya will have a realization of sorts (dunno what kind) and that will change the flow and lead to the end of the anime. But I guess the meat of this anime is what we've seen already. Basically, a harem anime disguised as something more intersting.

[shinta|hikari]

I totally understand Kyouya's situation and actions, having been in it myself a couple of times before. Delaying acknowledgement is sometimes the best decision for all parties when being a focus of affection from several people.

[David75]

The alternative is to just leave the group if the situation goes against your so called principals of sick righteousness.
Been there, done that. Believe me: it's the worst decision ever !

[neflight86]

I am actually liking that the harem is being used for something, narratively, instead of just the insipid titillation that is so common (though there's plenty of that eye-rolling behavior, too). He can't just tell who to do what- he needs to direct them and navigate their relationships in such a way as to not further distract these barely-not-kids. It's a fun dynamic (twist on the harem, really) that Kasegawa is the only one mature enough to confide in about this, and she also recognizes he is in a difficult spot.

A surprising amount of screen time was spent on writer guy fighting off advances of his fiancée enough to have her question his sexuality, and this is a bit more interesting than the typical take on one sided romance, though begrudgingly, it does all come back to protagonist savior lavish.

Overall, a bit more interesting than the previous few eps since other characters take a bit more screen time to shine.

[shinta|hikari]

We also have to remember that he SHOULD be far better than his peers at this point. He has many years of (actual working) experience on them, after all.

[Ryllharu]

Episode 8
-----------------


Fuck. This. Show.

Even when a consequence has finally showed up, Tsurayuki still spends half of the scene saying how fucking great Kyouya is.
"You always made the rational and accurate call."
"There's no way I can catch up to this guy's talent."
"You're not a writer, so it thought it would work out, but you're even better than I could hope to be. You could have pulled it off without me."

Lay it on little thicker, please. I haven't thrown up yet.

Tsurayuki should have been telling him how useless he was being made to feel, emphasizing his feeling of redundancy rather than phrasing it in a way that continues to complement Kyouya. Maybe it was the translation, but I kinda doubt it. I expected him to, after all the previous blow ups. Tsurayuki is not the meek Japanese maiden that Aki is, or Nanako who is never given a chance after the concert for her confidence to grow beyond the level that Kyouya allows her without his approval (unintended, but that is what is happening). He should be the one other person besides Kawasegawa who will actually stand up to Kyouya's unearned (from our perspective) 'genius.' Well, at least it serves as the object lesson for how damaging Kyouya is to his peers when he is blindly followed.

Kyouya isn't just doing a director's job at this point. He was actively squelching all of their creativity to meet the deadline. Telling Shino to not do her own style of art that she knew would evoke a stronger emotion. Telling Nanako to rehash someone else's work and just be derivative. But no, they don't even fight back, and Kawasegawa or her sister aren't even there to tell him off. Aki and Nanako's hints were too subdued, because how dare they question the 'genius' who has saved them so many times so far in school? Even the self-satisfied thought Kyouya had "I'm glad we decided to do things my way. It was the right decision." What an intensely unlikeable guy. Who writes a business proposal to his housemates on a collaborative project then gently guilt-trips them into agreeing to it?

Is he quite up to Makoto from School Days in terms of unlikeable? No. At least with that series it was deliberate, but this feels more like they've just gone way overboard on the praise while taking far too long to hint that he was doing real harm.

Due to the nauseating levels of praise he keeps getting, it's not even satisfying to have him collapse and with the realization that he did this to himself. Because he slowly deviated into thinking that he was so important that he help people who never needed him in the first place. He wanted to collaborate, but instead he ended up undermining all of their confidence. Does he learn from this to try and hit a better balance point? Maybe too early to say because this is the low point in the textbook narrative this show has going. I suppose his reward at the true end to this series is he'll still be a recognized genius assistant director or something.

I guess the loli is the devil though? I assume in the future jump that we'll see Aki gave up on art, Nanako left the music industry after struggling with being mediocre, Tsurayuki is doing something boring or his fiancée thought he was pathetic and left him, while Kyouya is a 'genius' film/game director.

No wonder he's a failure in the original timeline. He blames everything else and his "lack of opportunity" when his personal efforts aren't enough, and when he's given free reign with all the talent helping him he could ask for, he lacks the capacity to relinquish even an iota of that control. Lack of determination on the forward end, lack of humility on the redo.

This series mostly makes me think more fondly of other franchises where they do most of the aspects of this series, just far better.

[David75]

I was also feeling in that ep that somehow him being average was showing those geniuses a wrong path/direction.
And the catch phrase/idea was along this: " thank you for beding this time, it will be better next time"... Nope, never happens. Bend once and it's over.

Also, it now feels too much like a dating sim with multiple ends and Kawasegawa is best girl in the game ?
Give me a good VN, I'll play for VAs. Throw the anime based on the idea though...

[shinta|hikari]

Why the fuck do you like golf?

[David75]

Not the subject here but golf is a good workout for a 45+ loving sports. At least when played with intensity...
It also forces me to work my flexibility, abdominals, glutes and so many muscular groups where I need both strength and precision.
I get to play in soothing, nice and calm environnement as opposed to a dirty and noisy city.
And sometimes I meet nice people I can share a game with.
In the long run I now I can play as long as I can walk without help, so for a long time if destiny allows me.
Not many outdoor sports are that kind late in life.

[MFauli]

Comparing Kyouya AT ALL to Makoto, rofl. And let's not forget that Sekai was the true villain in that anime :P

As for this episode:

I feel like SO much could be done if people, especially Kyouya, just talked more to each other! In that dialogue with Tsurayuki, why didn't Kyouya do one of his motivational speeches? The thing I wanted him to tell the others the entire time was something like: "Everyone, I know that I asked you to do something unreasonable this time. But ... this is a promise: Let's make another game, and this time we'll take our time. Let's do this!". And then individually tell them how fantastic their work is and that without the extreme time pressure they can truly apply their skill to it.

But he just gave up, let Tsurayuki go and eh ...

Now he's lost anyway. If he undoes the current presence, he will 1.) kill his daughter and 2.) be gay, because wife Shinoaki is as great as his life can ever be :P

Accept that Tsurayuki took a different route and move on. Ultimately, it's "just" game development, it's not like people's lives depends on choosing a specific career, most people don't get to be that picky. Enjoy your wife, have fun with your super cute daughter, and live life. You kinda cheated, but you didn't intend to, so don't feel to bad about it. Time travel is always cheating inherently.

[Ryllharu]

But he just gave up, let Tsurayuki go and eh ...
This is always his problem, always been his problem, and will always be his problem unless he finally learns something from this future jump.

Something goes wrong, and he just gives up and collapses.

He needs to recognize it is his attitude, not his available opportunities, regrets, and "luck."

He was extremely lucky in his original timeline. How often do you get cross-functional knowledge in a job that you switched to because you hated your original career? How often do you lose a job and get a new dream job a month later because you met a hot woman manager on a footbridge? How often do you rapidly work your way up from a clerical job to a management coordination position?

He's been envious of a life he thought would be better, and his shitty attitude and ego ruined that one too.

Maybe one day he'll realize that big creative projects are a collaboration, and a single decision maker for the group usually produces an inferior product.

[MFauli]

This is always his problem, always been his problem, and will always be his problem unless he finally learns something from this future jump.

Something goes wrong, and he just gives up and collapses.

I mean, that's factually untrue, Ryll, lol. Just a couple episodes ago we saw how he reacted to the missing camera. He didn't collapse, he thought hard and then made it happen against all odds. Your irrational hatred against Kyouya is showing again ;D

[Ryllharu]

It was the 2nd episode, not a couple back.

We saw his catastrophizing thought pattern. You quoted me on it (https://forums.gotwoot.org/showthread.php/23947-Bokutachi-no-Remake-Remake-Our-Life!?p=571919&viewfull=1#post571919)so I have to assume you actually read it.

I wouldn't describe that as thinking hard on it. He nearly had a breakdown then. He just fought it once. It hasn't happened since, and we haven't seen him in an actual challenge since then, because everyone listens to his super-genius advice and it always works out. Until now. This time he immediately collapsed into his normal depressive cycle.

Right back to where he's always been.

Until a loli Christmas Future'd him away from the negative outcome he caused. Hopefully to show him how much more he's fucked up the ambitions of other creative people with his ego and lack of personal accountability.

edit:
Let's think about Nanako for a second.

We can safely presume that Kawasegawa was always going to confront Nanako about her singing and finally push her away from acting, because it wasn't what Nanako really wanted to do with her life.

But instead, we have Kyouya backing her up, telling her what to do, how to do it, and showing her how to do things. With his preference. If there was any overlap, it could be because he was driving her to write her own future songs, or at least that sound, because it is what she composed later.

However, if he's directing her how to work, Nanako isn't finding her own voice. She's not writing songs in a way that N@NA would, she's Nanako writing Kyouya's tracks.

If Nanako ended up getting just as pissed off at Kawasegawa, but found that drive herself to do what she wanted...which the concert eps tells us she would have without Kyouya's intervention, maybe just a little slower, she'd have only her own insecurities to overcome. Doing it herself builds her confidence because she's doing all of it and people are reacting positively.

With the game development, Kyouya is holding her hand the whole time.

I suspect she won't be very famous either in the future arc. Maybe a contract vocalist, but not a composer and singer-songwriter idol.

[MFauli]

A pragmatic pov could say, however: So what? Is it really Kyouya's fault when people make different life choices just because he's around? What if these guys' lives actually became BETTER? Would Kyouya then be a bad guy? I doubt it. He caused change, that's the only fact. We know Shinoaki is a happy mother and married to him, hardly a terrible life. Tsurayuki might have become a much more respected author now that he left game dev writing. Similar, Nanako might have become a famours singer that'S not just known for shitty light novel soundtracks. And Kawasegawa might have become a much more successful person, hardened by how the past turned out.

The point is: People make choices. Kyouya didn't actively manipulate them. He just happened to be there and tried to do the best within the school regimen. Neither did he try to sabotage anyone nor use his knowledge to catch himself a cute gf. It just happened.

But whatever: Any attempts at fixing things now would result in erasing his daughter. That'd be worse than ruining someone's career.

[Ryllharu]

You're rewriting history a bit.

- Aki, we'll find out.

- N@NA is not known primarily for game soundtracks. In the original timeline, she did one several years ago that was a huge hit, and was coming back to games to support the Anniversary project in 2016. It's not clear if she's spent time doing mostly Anison work like Suzuki Konomi, or if she's a proper multimedia star, more in like with Utada Hikaru who has her work all over the place including regular pop music. Sorta implied to be the later in the livestream wall of text crap that east Asia does.

- Tsurayuki, same deal. Did one game scenario that was the huge hit, then became a very famous author (short story compilations, one of which Kyouya accidentally stole for their project...and I cannot believe he didn't make the connection until THIS episode). Also novels primarily. More mainstream writing than Kinoko Nasu of Type-Moon or Gen Urobuchi.

Kyouya has done damage to at least two of them. Directly. He knows he manipulated them into doing it his way, thinking it was the right thing to do. His dialogue revealed it when he's walking with the studio with Nanako and pink-haired Loli-God. You're also forgetting that Kawasegawa's sister directly warned him not to do what he ended up doing with the game, when he had exerted control over one of their group projects. There's a balance point, that's what editors do, etc. It's a collaborative effort. "If the production side stops trying, then that means that the whole project is doomed...No one outranks anyone else."

Kyouya single-handedly got all three of them to stop trying at their specialties in order to meet the schedule. And he did it in a way where he was commanding the whole project.

I could be wrong about all three, but I very much doubt it. My assumption until the next episode airs is that Aki has also given up on art. Not to blame the daughter or anything, who clearly does draw a lot herself. You need to remember that Kyouya considers her artwork something that has actually saved him in his darkest moments in the original timeline. If she's stopped doing art, or of that treasured book of her work that he has never got published, he will believe he's done irreparable harm. Others in that livestream feel the same way. Shinoaki is considered "a god" in the digital art world.


edit:

You're really missing the obvious hints. He shatters Aki's confidence with a bunch of bullshit and overt lies to maintain the schedule. He even thinks her idea to redraw it a little zoomed out to get the clenched fist is a great idea "As a creator, I'd love to sign off on this," but then thinks some shit about the schedule, and that's actually not the bad part. If he had said that, fine. She'd understand, which we know because she says exactly that.

Nah...Kyouya flat out lies to her face with his 'I know what I'm doing' tone he's been using with his housemates for months now. She pushes back for a second, and even directly states that he might be having reservations because of the schedule. He double-down on the lie that he thinks she should only focus on facial expressions and backs it up with some storyboarding bullshit. Implying that the way Shinoaki works and her ideas are wrong. Focus on the waifu, not the superior overall composition where the readers get a visual clue to the protagonist's mindset. "I think your idea is interesting, but this one is better, what do you say?"

"Interesting" being universal business code speak for, "your idea is stupid."

He's railroading her into an admittedly inferior idea, and negatively impacting her instincts.

[MFauli]

In all of your tirade against Kyouya, you're missing WHY he did what he did: To save Tsurayuki from dropping out of school.

While it's ironic how that still happened, you cannot accuse Kyouya of being pushy and railroading them, when the opposite would have resulted in them missing the deadline and Tsurayuki having to drop out. The group was up against death and Kyouya made the correct choices to save them from death.

Whatever "bad" consequences this might have, you cannot blame it on Kyouya's intention. Those were good.

On a personal note: If you were Kyouya at this point ,would you try to undo the "damage"? Erase your daughter?

[Ryllharu]

In all of your tirade against Kyouya, you're missing WHY he did what he did: To save Tsurayuki from dropping out of school.

While it's ironic how that still happened, you cannot accuse Kyouya of being pushy and railroading them, when the opposite would have resulted in them missing the deadline and Tsurayuki having to drop out. The group was up against death and Kyouya made the correct choices to save them from death.

Whatever "bad" consequences this might have, you cannot blame it on Kyouya's intention. Those were good.

You're missing the actual message of his breakdown this episode. The WHY he did it was twisted from his original intention to jump back in the first place. His own ego distorted it.

- He wanted to go back because his own life was "a failure." He wanted the opportunity to work with and collaborate with the Platinum Generation Trio, so he wouldn't have to face the failures of his current life, or so he thought.
- He says this episode, 'These are the correct actions to take. This must be the real reason why I was sent back here, to help them.'

Then he realizes after he destroyed Tsurayuki's career with his meddling and borrowed competence in everything, that none of them had really needed him in the first place. They were all extremely successful in that normal timeline without his involvement or "aid."

The want for a crutch sent him back in time. His own true capabilities as of 2016 snapped those crutches. He keeps missing the lessons he was sent back to learn (and I mean school lessons, not the moral ones Loli-God is teaching him now that he's ruined the one thing he wanted).


On a personal note: If you were Kyouya at this point ,would you try to undo the "damage"? Erase your daughter?
I wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. Ever-Forward is the only direction to go. Regret and Envy are tied together, and are both self-destructive to your mental state. Go far enough forward and you won't get caught in the same starting place, making the same mistakes, when events loop back on themselves as the world always does. Because you will know better and will have changed before it can.

In 2018, Kyouya has already ruined everything. That's the purpose of Loli-God sending him even further from where he started. To see the truth of it. There's some good things, but as I've speculated, probably far more that Kyouya will ultimately dislike even more.

[MFauli]

None of what you write changes that Kyouya did what he did do to help Tsurayuki. That's the core of everything that went down with their game development.

But let's look at something else here: You point out that Tsurayuki didn't need Kyouya's help in the original timeline. What does that mean? That means he dropped out of school. Which also means: Nothing has really changed. Outside of some temporal missed opportunities that might or might not have occurred otherwise, Tsurayuki is walking the same path as intended. Only with some extra experience. We haven't see where this lead him in the changed timeline, but unless this anime wants to really blame bad stuff on Kyouya, it's just as likely that Tsurayuki became even more successful, because the experience made him realize, that it's always best to stay true to his own writing and never bow down to external pressure, thus allowing him to write even more amazing novels than he had written in the original timeline.Considering how cheap this anime is, I don't expect this, lol, instead we'll probably see how he's totally miserable. But to imply that it's Kyouya's fault is just bs. Strictly causative speaking, yes it is, but realistically, no it's not.

Similar could be speculated about the other two girls.

Honestly, the best outcome would be if everyone actually went on to be more successful than originally. The only thing that makes me confident that won't happen is that, of course,an anime hero can never just enjoy happiness, aka getting Shinoaki as a wife is too much happiness, so of course the author will destroy this new reality. :/

I totally expect this anime to be utter trash, though, and Kyouya just casually killing his own daughter, because he feels his friends from the past are more important. That will be extremely morally wrong on every level, but that's the kind of anime this has been since episode 3.



I wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

So a cop-out. I'd still be interested in an actual answer.

[Ryllharu]

None of what you write changes that Kyouya did what he did do to help Tsurayuki. That's the core of everything that went down with their game development.
I am not surprised of course, but still disappointed that you consistently ignore the content itself of any series that tells you you're wrong.

The Platinum Generation didn't need help. Kyouya deluded himself into thinking they did. His "help" did the opposite. He realized it when Tsurayuki told him he was going to drop out. Loli-God shows up to jump him forward even further to show him what else he's fucked up. Kyouya's help was the opposite of what his teacher advised him to do, but because he's a shitty person, he convinced himself that it was right, even knowing on each discrete action it wasn't. His arrogance and self-righteousness used to convinced himself to suppress that instinct.

There's a difference between helping and coddling, and something Kyouya never learned, because all his competence in the 2006 time is unearned. He's cheating with future skills and knowledge that he's learned over a decade. Mentoring is different, giving people a chance to fail on their own. Kyouya has been directing all of them exactly how to work.



But let's look at something else here: You point out that Tsurayuki didn't need Kyouya's help in the original timeline. What does that mean? That means he dropped out of school. Which also means: Nothing has really changed. Outside of some temporal missed opportunities that might or might not have occurred otherwise, Tsurayuki is walking the same path as intended. Only with some extra experience.
Does it? We don't know anything about him in the original timeline. We only know that he was successful somehow, and now we know that he isn't going to write at all.

We're told from Kyouya's thoughts that Kawasegawa ends up getting into game development pretty naturally. A self-correction to his influence in this timeline perhaps, though that scene is kind of incoherent in general. It just jumps from video editing (still filmmaking) to Kyouya telling the audience this actually means game development...whatever.

Tsurayuki could have been helped by Kawasegawa, who is much more measured than Kyouya's ham-fisted "aid" and she'd obviously listen to her own sister more. It's the most likely answer because we know from 2016 that she knows all of them personally, and they did produce an early game together. Or Tsurayuki could have stressed out so much he submits a manuscript as a last resort and gets a publication advance to keep himself in school. Maybe he submitted something for a prize, and won a scholarship. We don't know.

But we do know that Kyouya stole some of his ideas ('I guess I'm not that original after all...'), told him how to fix his writing ('I guess I'm not that good of a writer after all'), constantly told Tsurayuki how to fix his work, and eventually just completely rewrote the outline ('I guess this won't really be my work after all'). All Kyouya has been doing from the beginning is undermine Tsurayuki's work. Every time one of the trio question his judgement, he lies about his reasons, which hurts all of them more. We just saw Tsurayuki break first because Kyouya has been particularly unfair to his talent. But in the last month, he's been equally brutal to the two girls.

We'll find out where he actually ends up. A doctor full of regrets, presumably.


Honestly, the best outcome would be if everyone actually went on to be more successful than originally. The only thing that makes me confident that won't happen is that, of course,an anime hero can never just enjoy happiness, aka getting Shinoaki as a wife is too much happiness, so of course the author will destroy this new reality. :/

I totally expect this anime to be utter trash, though, and Kyouya just casually killing his own daughter, because he feels his friends from the past are more important. That will be extremely morally wrong on every level, but that's the kind of anime this has been since episode 3.
There's absolutely no chance any one is successful except for Kyouya in the jump ahead. Maybe Kawasegawa. All his success unearned because he already knew what trends would be popular when.

Again, you focus on one detail to miss the actual statements of the series. Kyouya values the Platinum Trio's work. He personally has been "saved" by Shinoaki's art book. Other people have too. She's a huge influence. That's probably number one. Tsurayuki's work left a huge impression on him in the past, so he accidentally stole that detailed concept for their project, down to the specifics. That means that anthology will never be published. Nanako is evidently very famous, and who knows how many things she's been involved in. (edit: In order to help himself be successful, he's taken away that positive influence that he got in the original timeline from thousands of people)


So a cop-out. I'd still be interested in an actual answer.
That is an actual answer. I've been consistent from the start on why exactly I hate Kyouya's attitude. He gives up, laments, and collapses into a depressed lump rather than getting back up and continuing to try. He mires in regret, envies what he thinks he didn't get, suppresses the positive he already had, and then when he does get his redo, he fucks it up way worse because he lacks the conscious awareness of the ripples he causes. He's so fucking self-satisfied with having a degree of influence that he refused to recognize that he already had because he's too busy pitying himself in the original timeline.

Ask yourself this: If he was so competent at so many aspects of the business when he worked at the Black Company making games, and he knew Kawasegawa somehow had a personal connection to three people in the Platinum Generation...why did he go back home again to wallow in a pity party rather than ask Kawasegawa if he could have a chance to work on a smaller scale project with her friends? The two of them were already hanging out for dinners after hours.

Because he is an envious, resentful, self-pitying, fucking loser.

[MFauli]

Because he is an envious, resentful, self-pitying, fucking loser.

Dear fuckness god, LOL.

Ryll, no matter how much you write, your insane hatred against Kyouya will never not make any goddamn sense :D You keep using words like "stole", "deluded", "arrogance", etc., but you ENTIRELY refuse to realize and accept that the CORE motivation of Kyouya's (IN THAT MOMENT!!1 <- this is important) was to help! And he didn't think "oh, I'm gonna help the platinum generation!". No, he thought "damn, this Tsurayuki, who I've been living with for weeks now, isn't gonna make it in time, I gotta see what I can do to help him" aka he helped an individual person, a friend even.

We can all agree that he fucked up to some degree (we don't know yet to what degree, though), but to paint it in a way that makes it seem like Kyouya actively and intentionally ruined anyone's future, is just flat out wrong. Honestly, I don't think we can have any meaningful discussion about that until next week when we'll probably get to see the wider consequences of Kyouya's changes.

Until then, you'll maybe find the muse to answer my question after all, EVEN if you say you wouldn't have ever gotten to that point. Imagine you're at this point nonetheless. Answer from there. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

[neflight86]

Lot to unpack here, in our surprise most controversial show of the season.



Even when a consequence has finally showed up, Tsurayuki still spends half of the scene saying how fucking great Kyouya is.


Agreed; there's no need to continue to lay it on this thick when that dialogue could have spent more time explaining the harm his overbearing direction caused instead and sell that to the viewer instead of how awesome Kyouya is...



Kyouya isn't just doing a director's job at this point. He was actively squelching all of their creativity to meet the deadline. Telling Shino to not do her own style of art that she knew would evoke a stronger emotion. Telling Nanako to rehash someone else's work and just be derivative. But no, they don't even fight back, and Kawasegawa or her sister aren't even there to tell him off. Aki and Nanako's hints were too subdued, because how dare they question the 'genius' who has saved them so many times so far in school? Even the self-satisfied thought Kyouya had "I'm glad we decided to do things my way. It was the right decision." What an intensely unlikeable guy. Who writes a business proposal to his housemates on a collaborative project then gently guilt-trips them into agreeing to it?

I'm shaky here. I understand he put his foot down, and the creatives had to compromise, but it was in service to meeting an all or nothing deadline that predicated the entire worth of the project. Art without compromise is more typical of hobby grade dabbling than commercial pursuits, though these youth may not be equipped to accept that yet. I figure it would be good for them to understand early on that following every little distraction will get them nowhere fast. I'm with Mfauli in that I think the intention of helping out Tsurayuki trumps this unforeseen mental damage.


Because he slowly deviated into thinking that he was so important that he help people who never needed him in the first place. He wanted to collaborate, but instead he ended up undermining all of their confidence.


At what point did he think he was so important? When he put competing the project on time over the whims of the others? As the story presents it, their disorganized methods would not have completed the project without someone being the 'bad guy' and making tough decisions about what was feasible or not. I never really got him thinking that he was some savior to them- I thought he was trying to help his friend pay for school.



No wonder he's a failure in the original timeline. He blames everything else and his "lack of opportunity" when his personal efforts aren't enough, and when he's given free reign with all the talent helping him he could ask for, he lacks the capacity to relinquish even an iota of that control. Lack of determination on the forward end, lack of humility on the redo.


He was mopey after losing his job... I've been that way too, on occasion, but I'm not in a TV show broadcasting my self thoughts for the world to judge. We all have bad times, and honestly, its not like he was suicidal or anything. I just don't see his conviction (or lack thereof) in the short amount of time we've been curated to see as being built up enough to take to heart like you are. I take this more as backdrop stuff than legitimate plot relevant character analysis.


This is always his problem, always been his problem, and will always be his problem unless he finally learns something from this future jump.

Something goes wrong, and he just gives up and collapses.

He needs to recognize it is his attitude, not his available opportunities, regrets, and "luck."

I don't understand. What does not giving up and collapsing look like? He lost his job and went home while he presumably planned out the next steps in his life. Then he was transported back in time to try again, unbeknownst to him. Far as I can tell, he was in a mild state of grieving. Is that too much to allow?

Maybe there is some author insert and wish fulfillment here or the like, but I can't hold it against the character himself who was sent back in time against his will and knowledge. To not expect him to try to make change when presented with a prime opportunity to do so would be very odd, indeed.



He needs to recognize it is his attitude, not his available opportunities, regrets, and "luck."

He was extremely lucky in his original timeline. How often do you get cross-functional knowledge in a job that you switched to because you hated your original career? How often do you lose a job and get a new dream job a month later because you met a hot woman manager on a footbridge? How often do you rapidly work your way up from a clerical job to a management coordination position?


What you describe here doesn't seem like luck aside from the initial meet up. He worked his way into the skillset he has like anyone else. People change jobs all the time, and working your way up is a part of that. People at the Kasegawa's company respected his contributions and he didn't really have any glaring weaknesses other than a lack of control (project got cancelled by higher ups). I don't think his attitude was the problem.



The point is: People make choices. Kyouya didn't actively manipulate them. He just happened to be there and tried to do the best within the school regimen. Neither did he try to sabotage anyone nor use his knowledge to catch himself a cute gf. It just happened.
Pretty much agreed.



Kyouya has done damage to at least two of them. Directly. He knows he manipulated them into doing it his way, thinking it was the right thing to do. His dialogue revealed it when he's walking with the studio with Nanako and pink-haired Loli-God. You're also forgetting that Kawasegawa's sister directly warned him not to do what he ended up doing with the game, when he had exerted control over one of their group projects. There's a balance point, that's what editors do, etc. It's a collaborative effort. "If the production side stops trying, then that means that the whole project is doomed...No one outranks anyone else."

Kyouya single-handedly got all three of them to stop trying at their specialties in order to meet the schedule. And he did it in a way where he was commanding the whole project.

...

Nah...Kyouya flat out lies to her face with his 'I know what I'm doing' tone he's been using with his housemates for months now. She pushes back for a second, and even directly states that he might be having reservations because of the schedule. He double-down on the lie that he thinks she should only focus on facial expressions and backs it up with some storyboarding bullshit. Implying that the way Shinoaki works and her ideas are wrong. Focus on the waifu, not the superior overall composition where the readers get a visual clue to the protagonist's mindset. "I think your idea is interesting, but this one is better, what do you say?"

"Interesting" being universal business code speak for, "your idea is stupid."

He's railroading her into an admittedly inferior idea, and negatively impacting her instincts.

I don't think that can be applied to a specialty project like this with a clearly non-artistic goal: to make money by a deadline. In a non-crunch environment, I think there is more room for playing nice and following creative collaboration. There has to be rank/heiarchy or we have five individual projects that may or may not mesh together.

Isn't getting people to try new things outside their specialties a good thing in a school environment? Wouldn't that help them develop lateral skills and prepare them to be flexible in the future? No one was at gunpoint; any could have quit at any time, but they respected his time lord wizdom to get the project done which they had no plan to do elsewise.

As for Shonoaki, he already has been made aware by Kasegawa to tip-toe around the girls until this project was settled to not further disrupt their ability to work with his unlimited stud works, so I understand why he didn't want to get into a detailed explanation of how, while her idea would improve the product, it most likely would not impact the sales of the product, which is why this misery crunch is taking place. If anything, it could make the deadline get missed and make their effort all for nothing. Knowing her kind personality, that truth bomb could have made her depressed. If her instincts were that fragile as to be stunted by a single remark, she's got some more growing to do.



- He wanted to go back because his own life was "a failure." He wanted the opportunity to work with and collaborate with the Platinum Generation Trio, so he wouldn't have to face the failures of his current life, or so he thought.
- He says this episode, 'These are the correct actions to take. This must be the real reason why I was sent back here, to help them.'

Then he realizes after he destroyed Tsurayuki's career with his meddling and borrowed competence in everything, that none of them had really needed him in the first place. They were all extremely successful in that normal timeline without his involvement or "aid."

The want for a crutch sent him back in time. His own true capabilities as of 2016 snapped those crutches. He keeps missing the lessons he was sent back to learn (and I mean school lessons, not the moral ones Loli-God is teaching him now that he's ruined the one thing he wanted).

I can see how that line could sound like self-importance, but if his intent is at-all humble, he could have adopted the mindset of a helpful time-cherub supporting people he admires. He doesn't count himself among them as far as I can tell.

I can't argue they were already successful at present, but I would probably be excited to work with people I admired as well. Was he not supposed to approach them even though he wound up in the same dorm?

I've never heard of 'borrowed competence' in that context, lol. That's a pretty backhanded way to say 'preserved memories'. But meddling? Was he supposed to just let Tsurayuki quit school just because he's afraid of a butterfly effect? He has no way to know if any of this is playing out like it did in the original timeline, so he took action to get a result he thought would be better. No malicious intent. This was an accident at worst.



In 2018, Kyouya has already ruined everything. That's the purpose of Loli-God sending him even further from where he started. To see the truth of it. There's some good things, but as I've speculated, probably far more that Kyouya will ultimately dislike even more.

If this happens in the coming episodes, that will certainly do much for your case against Kyouya, as I'm not sold on his moral degeneracy or awful attitude quite yet...



The Platinum Generation didn't need help. Kyouya deluded himself into thinking they did. His "help" did the opposite. He realized it when Tsurayuki told him he was going to drop out.

...

There's a difference between helping and coddling, and something Kyouya never learned, because all his competence in the 2006 time is unearned. He's cheating with future skills and knowledge that he's learned over a decade. Mentoring is different, giving people a chance to fail on their own. Kyouya has been directing all of them exactly how to work.

It's anime, so I should take what is said at face value, but Tsurayuki wouldn't be the first teenager to say something, mean it, and then not mean it later. If he loves writing enough to fight his family over it, he will probably still continue writing somehow.

I suppose they did not need his help, but they sure looked like they might, given the circumstances. I don't see how his past self memories are un-earned if he also has the traumatic memories wo go with them. He's an imposter teenager, I get that, but he is still a student at this school, so I figure he can be allowed a mistake or two. I'm also not sold on the idea of the merit of letting people 'fail on their own'. Firstly, this was a timed project with monetary consequences, and secondly, letting someone fail seems counterproductive in and of itself, even if the goal is to prepare them for the future. Is it a 'building character' kind of thing you are referring to?


If he was so competent at so many aspects of the business when he worked at the Black Company making games, and he knew Kawasegawa somehow had a personal connection to three people in the Platinum Generation...why did he go back home again to wallow in a pity party rather than ask Kawasegawa if he could have a chance to work on a smaller scale project with her friends? The two of them were already hanging out for dinners after hours.

For all we know, his permanent position was never solidified and he was let go, or the Trio felt betrayed by the company pulling the plug on the game and severed ties with Kasegawa. Time passed off camera where things could have happened. I can think of a few reasons, but I don't meant to try to pick apart your (good) question.

Well, this has gotten long, and has made for good discussion, so I look forward to seeing what will happen next on our future perfect?

[shinta|hikari]

What the guy above said.

[Ryllharu]

Episode 09

-------------

What do you know...I was 90% right. Guess it's because of my "irrational" hate that I wasn't completely correct. :p

Kyouya made everyone mediocre with his "help." He's successful at a mid-tier company and as a well-known fixer (such amazing talents including telling someone you're coming in 30 minutes so they can be presentable for business discussion). Even Kawasegawa is mediocre thanks to his influence in this timeline (though I don't think I can make the stretch that him being available to fix things for her team is why she became "defanged").

He openly states he stole their dreams, and ended up being the only one happy.

And sure enough, when he realizes it, falling right into the trash with depression again...

We can also guess who Minori Ayaka used to idolize.

[David75]

Basically an episode to show Kyouya what damage an average but efficient guy's best intentions can do.
A bit like if everyone got bad luck for him to get small luck at the shrine visit except it's for life.

I think it would be a lot harder to be thrown into your future self working adult. Passwords, projects, tasks and connexions... you'd probably need weeks to get into it and I wonder how people you work with would understand your amnesia and cope with it.
The same applies for his new familly.
Since he probably has physical changes to his 10 years jump, he could have had the memories for those years too.
But that jump is awkward in the sense that he did nothing to help the others and ended up dating/marrying Shino.

Side note: That criminal looking dude was their boss ? You sure he's not dealing drugs and having a cat bar and uses that game company as a front ?

[Ryllharu]

Side note: That criminal looking dude was their boss ? You sure he's not dealing drugs and having a cat bar and uses that game company as a front ?

Seemed pretty obvious to me from the exhausted workers at their desks that the mid-tier company is Crunch Central, consistently putting out average to good VNs using their employees life force to do it. Skeezy Boss owns the business, probably does own a hostess bar, a soapland, and a pachinko parlor. Kawasegawa runs one team, Kyouya runs another.

[MFauli]

Episode 09

-------------

What do you know...I was 90% right. Guess it's because of my "irrational" hate that I wasn't completely correct. :p

Nah, more like 10% right, because you're still irrational.

Kyouya himself admits that he did something bad, but he still never intended that. Also stop blaming him for getting depressed over the situation, seriously, Ryll, I'm starting to think that you're some emotionless "depression isnt real, just gotta keep on trucking!" dude. :/

There's really only 2 proper paths to take from here that wouldn't result in some asshole outcome:

1.) Jump back in time and fix it, but still marry Shinoaki, so that their daughter will be born and not eradicated from existence.

2.) Stay in present and visit Nanako, Tsurayuki, and bring everyone together. Help them rekindle their passion.

I know Ryll would be outraged over option 2.), like "OMG Kyouya is Jesus again, fixing literally everyone's life! omg!!1". But still, it's one of two viable paths. Anything that leads to him eradicating his daughter would be the most fucked up solution, because your daughter's life is more important than other people's career.

Btw. can we talk about that new artist girl's attitude? Isn't she contractually obligated to finish her work within a certain deadline? The scene was all cutesy, but irl, she'd face severe fines and other consequences, right?

[Ryllharu]

Btw. can we talk about that new artist girl's attitude? Isn't she contractually obligated to finish her work within a certain deadline? The scene was all cutesy, but irl, she'd face severe fines and other consequences, right?

Seriously, MFauli, I'm starting to think you're some emotionless, "You're doing it for the exposure!" type of people who commission work from artists.

Art is hard. Especially digital art that has the level of detail that Shinoaki and Ayaka do. Each piece might take up to a couple weeks to complete. Good artists who work all the time can do them in a matter of hours from sketch to finished, but they've put in thousands and thousands of hours of practice. Manga artists are usually just doing line art with shading, and while that's 20 pages worth, there's often several assistants involved to get it all done in a week.

Ayaka is also experiencing some burnout, and struggling with her art because of people who treated her just like Kyouya treated Aki that day in 2007. Aki's monologue on why she eventually quit felt like it came from the heart, and even though she said it wasn't Kyouya's fault, it still kinda was, and he knew it. He planted that seed of doubt with her regarding her own abilities. As for Ayaka, it depends on what's written in her contract, something that this series casually glosses over. The game will get delayed, Ayaka's reputation will suffer, and she might get less work in the future as word gets out that she breached her contract delivery date. Or she'll blast through them and get it done. If she was seriously blowing her past all her deadlines, she'd probably already have been fired.

Overall, this series handles that situation at a juvenile level.

Lastly, you're projecting your own expectations and feelings onto me, which is really kinda weird. This dumpster fire is gonna end the way it does, and I'm not going to be particularly surprised because it is very predictable and telegraphed when you're paying attention to what they're saying in the episodes. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I hate this series because of how shallow and patronizing it is compared to Imosae and Saekano, which both deal with similar subject matters much more maturely.

[neflight86]

Well, looks like the future isn't so perfect, after all.

Looks like Ryllharu was right about the detrimental effects of Kyouya's temporal tampering...

Again, I'll have to take it at face value, due to the story saying so, but I would seriously question just how artists this fragile could have possibly thrived in this uncaring world (original timeline) without a guide like Kyouya to help shield them from the realities of professional responsibility.

Before I dig into the causality and my issues with it, I would like to say that the most interesting part of the episode was Kyouya's poker face at trying to decipher his current life without outright admitting to anyone he has, effectively, amnesia. It reminded me of just how much specialized information we all have in attending to our own daily matters and jobs. Though, funnily enough, Kyouya's curse of competence allowed him to slip into his role with pretty much no one being the wiser. I'm not sure if it is more interesting to interpret that as his actual job being so low effort/impact as to be undetectable (what is even 10 years at a game company?), or as the author not wanting to take the effort to craft a more interesting workplace dynamic, which suggests the same of this story as a whole...

So, why does he not get to keep the 10 years of memories from his void years? Kyouya immediately pieced together how his influence (must have) drove the others away from their destinies, but if he had that insight going into these last ten years, how did auto-pilot Kyouya mess that up? Seems like a narrative concession to enable their failure, I have to assume.

I still can't bring myself to think of Kyouya as a bad guy for doing what he did. The best of intentions resulted in a different world than he expected, but is it a worse one? I'm going to choose to say no- It has one more doctor, presumably, one less Youtube streamer, and a functional family unit with Kasegawa on the same track at a smaller company. Did Kyouya really steal happiness by simply achieving it? Like murder versus manslaughter. The only lesson I can take away from this is to not let yourself go back in time by cosmic forces outside of your control, because the butterfly effect- it turns out- is belligerent.



Kyouya made everyone mediocre with his "help." He's successful at a mid-tier company and as a well-known fixer (such amazing talents including telling someone you're coming in 30 minutes so they can be presentable for business discussion). Even Kawasegawa is mediocre thanks to his influence in this timeline (though I don't think I can make the stretch that him being available to fix things for her team is why she became "defanged").


I understand what you are saying, and it may be true, but how is someone supposed to know that without hindsight or ominous foreshadowing that only we, the audience, are privy to? That's why I can't get on the hate train. I would have probably done approximately the same things in his shoes (less skillfully, of course), and I'm supposed to accept that I'm scum who ruins dreams for trying to help because this story contrived that to be a bad thing? Back to the earlier mention, are artists regularly that susceptible to 'coddling'? I doubt it, at least for the ones who collect checks for their work. As you say, this story glosses over some realities that could make it a more serious/mature story, and this entire scenario I'll count as one of them.

Griping aside, how do you think we arrive at the 'happy ending'? Another redo, but with bootstrap, watertight reinforcement, or perhaps a reset to the original timeline? Is it even possible we try to salvage this timeline?

[MFauli]

If "you" refers to all of us, my 2 options for a happy ending are in my posting above :>

Regarding time travel: That's why I hate most time travel stories. Tokyo Revengers does the exact same mistake. The main character jumps between times and only has his own memories from his active experience, yet there MUST be a version of him that experiences all the other stuff, makes important decisions and so on. That's just a massive plothole and I think the authors know that, they're just too lazy to figure out how to do it right. Because you could. It'd just add another facet to the story.

For better or worse, these anime are so shallow ultimately that I don't even care much about these plot holes. If it were Steins;Gate making such mistake, I'd be more upset. But in this generic anime that will be forgotten the very moment the fall season begins? Nah

[David75]

Regarding the cute little girl, I was sad to think she might not be born in an alternate timeline but:
-it might be Shino never had a baby in the first timeline, we don't know.
-I'm pretty sure she exists in many other timelines, where Kyouya is not the father.

I'm still thinking Kawasegawa is the ultimate route, with everyone at their peak happiness and creativity.

[MFauli]

-I'm pretty sure she exists in many other timelines, where Kyouya is not the father.


I mean, that's not how that works, lol.

... not that this anime might be above stupid shit like that :D

[Ryllharu]

Griping aside, how do you think we arrive at the 'happy ending'? Another redo, but with bootstrap, watertight reinforcement, or perhaps a reset to the original timeline? Is it even possible we try to salvage this timeline?

Turns out, the light novels are ongoing, somewhere around 9 or 10 volumes. Apparently we're somewhere around volume 4.

So we're going to get a reset ending. Guaranteed.

Though I have no clue how the series is even still ongoing.

[David75]

I mean, that's not how that works, lol.

... not that this anime might be above stupid shit like that :D

I mean what is important is that Shino is happy and has a wonderfully cute little girl, Kyouya being the father is not necessary.

You can argue that the little girl would not be the same exactly and that it is sad.

But if we follow the Steins;gate idea of worldline, they all exist parallel to each other but we only experience one at a time.

So she is not erased, it's that Kyouya would not be in a worldline where she exists as his daughter.

[Ryllharu]

I mean what is important is that Shino is happy and has a wonderfully cute little girl, Kyouya being the father is not necessary.

You can argue that the little girl would not be the same exactly and that it is sad.
I think it is fair to say it doesn't matter who the father is because Shino clones herself.

[David75]

Oh nice one, self duplication. Beware, Shino overdose can be dangerous ;)

[MFauli]

I think it is fair to say it doesn't matter who the father is because Shino clones herself.

ROFL

Spat out my milk from my nose, thank you, sir!

[David75]

At least that idea soothes the hearts of those fearing chibbi Shino would disapear in another wordline/route :o

[MFauli]

episode 10:

LOL. This is the first episode that had me annoyed in the Ryll-sense :D That final scene ... a bit much? lol

But there's so many characters that annoy me. Why does the brunette glasses-girl always call for Kyouya? Solve your own fucking problems!

And the blonde bimbo artist ... that's just not believable. The artist market is one of the most contentious in any creative industry. Nobody would casually throw away such a job. And she's seriously saying "I couldn't get myself motivated"?! WTF. She's not some unique genius. Even at the top of artists, there's always an alternative waiting for a chance. She's the worst part of these last two episodes :/

The CEO is dumb, too. What did he expect?! Does he want his dev team to use magic? He might not be directly involved with development, but if you'Re the CEO of a dev company, you ought to have enough of an understanding to make basic decisions not go that wrong.

And then the situation with Shinoaki ... 3 months have gone by now in that new future, and Kyouya NEVER asked her about how she quit drawing and all? And he didn't try calling Tsurayuki?!

With how Nanako seems to go back to singing, I'm now confident they're going for the "everybody's future actually turns out well after all" that I predicted, but ... the way it happens is so fucking unearned. This whole episode, I was waiting for Kawasegawa to stand up to the shitty CEO, but now it's Kyouya once again.

Really, all the irrational criticism Ryll had for Kyouya wasn't unwarranted until this point. NOW I'm starting to hate him, too lol

[Ryllharu]

But there's so many characters that annoy me. Why does the brunette glasses-girl always call for Kyouya? Solve your own fucking problems!
To help in doubling down that the Kawasegawa of this world is an ineffective team leader, because of course she's just a unmarried woman above 25 (therefore useless sterile hag! ;)) and cuz Kyouya is the hero.


And the blonde bimbo artist ... that's just not believable. The artist market is one of the most contentious in any creative industry. Nobody would casually throw away such a job. And she's seriously saying "I couldn't get myself motivated"?! WTF. She's not some unique genius. Even at the top of artists, there's always an alternative waiting for a chance. She's the worst part of these last two episodes :/
Going to disagree with you here. She's a really accurate and realistic depiction of an artist with a severe case of floundering motivation, the downward spiral of losing self-confidence because of having a block, flailing for anything that might reignite that spark, and too scared to ask for help from the people who you owe work to because it makes you look unprofessional and weak. It's the same reason people hate Kazuya in Rent-a-Girlfriend. He's an accurate depiction of real life people with low self-esteem. They see a part of themselves they really don't like and don't want a reminder of it in their entertainment.

She probably is unique in this timeline because Kyouya's crappy management in 2007 led to Shinoaki quitting entirely. Ayaka is the successor to Shino's particular style, who admired her and rose to fill the gap from the little work Shino did complete.

And the rest of my usual hot take...

Kawasegawa is the leader of Team A, "which is what everyone thinks of regarding this group," and some other generic non-committal bullshit? Of course Kyouya's Team B is known for consistency, and bringing in a steady revenue stream, so of course his team is the successful moneymaker that's always on time...barf. I guess what this really means is Kawasegawa is the lead team that works on the big name projects so we can show how mediocre and incapable she is at management in this timeline compared to Kyouya. And worse still, the disgusting display of Nanako thanking him, saying she needed him for her confidence, and it is her fault for ruining all the help he gave her, though only the viewers and Kyouya know she was more successful without him in the original timeline.

It's really not right that Shino lies to her daughter about not being able to draw. I...kinda want to directly blame Kyouya for it, but it's not entirely fair to do so. I think I'll have to equally blame Shino for it. It's one thing to not want to do it at a professional level, but another to not "sloppily help" your own daughter who clearly enjoys it and wants to learn.

Everyone is a worse version of themselves in this world, even Kyouya just gives up helping people (even though he shouldn't in the first place in this world).

That said, his skeezy boss was correct to a degree. Kawasegawa got saddled with a shit job and a shit contract to go with it, but Kyouya should not be holding Kawasegawa's hand, especially at the expense of his own work. Their PR department fucking sucks though, but that could also just be Japanese business culture where the skeezy boss is getting the final say and just blaming hackers.

Kyouya is infuriating because he never learns the right lesson from his mistakes. Gave up before, if only I had a clean start with the artists I admire...then "helping" them backfired, I guess I'll give up on helping people despite doing it successfully to the nameless employees also under Kawasegawa in 2016. It's like he deliberately always takes the worst reaction outside of that one time with the camera mixup.

Definitely angers me that the message this episode is that they'll still get back up on their own and strive to be successful, when the reason they're not in 2018 is directly due to the protagonist. Even If they were struggling in some way in 2016, that's when he should have asked Kawasegawa to reach out. Instead of this "everything's shittier, but there's still hope for this world!" garbage.

Worth pointing out now that the pink-haired loli senpai god is a magical girl character from 2016 Kyouya's project working under Kawasegawa?
1926

[MFauli]

Sorry, but I cannot accept your defense of the blonde bimbo.

This is a professional business. If an artist irl couldn't meet a deadline, that artist would be replaced asap and never again get a job in the industry.

To accept blonde bimbo's behavior, I have to accept that she doesn't care about losing the job, losing her entire career. And that is something I can't.

Got a "writers block - artist version"? Then still push yourself, do "not your best", but deliver the minimum. Not every project will be your best, that's not realistic. I'm a big Zelda-fan, but the quality of these games has always been fluctating. Sometimes the best people cannot call upon their best efforts, but you're part of a business and got responsibilities.

The only way to rationalize blonde bimbo is that she's a childish, entitled brat. And that's the word kind of character.

[Ryllharu]

One other thing I forgot.

The author may have knowledge of otaku things, but very obviously doesn't know anything about how they're made or how they work.

The gacha pull rates bug scandal is 100% made up bullshit.

Gacha rates work system-wide, the same for all users. Unless their firm deliberately set up one of the voice actors with a boosted account for PR, and then botched it by letting him talk about it openly. So the rates were either system wide shitty, and the actor had crazy luck (which happens, thanks to chaotic probability, people pull duplicates of top-tier units on a multi-pull all the time and boast about it). Or their pity system which they didn't mention and should have mentioned indeed has a bug instead of the pulls themselves.

Japanese VAs are all whales, and all pull their own units. And they use shitloads of in-game currency to hit the guarantees. Easily 150,000 yen worth. The gacha game companies promote these things by giving streamer collaborators tons of in-game currency. They don't tweak the pull systems.

This episode should have framed it as a legit bug and explained it, since they do dive into technical things (and usually get them wrong...) or they should have called the whole thing a PR blunder instead, and not claimed it was a gacha pull system bug that was exacerbated by poor PR department recovery. Make up your mind. Bugs with the engine (which the gacha system will be a separate function call of), bugs with the gacha system, or just a bad move with their PR department for not controlling the release hype correctly and creating the situation intentionally but screwing it up without talking to the development team?


Got a "writers block - artist version"? Then still push yourself, do "not your best", but deliver the minimum. Not every project will be your best, that's not realistic.
...
The only way to rationalize blonde bimbo is that she's a childish, entitled brat. And that's the word kind of character.
Emphasis mine.

You do realize this is the same line of thought for why I've hated Kyouya from the first episode? Just directed at someone else with a minor difference in circumstances.

[neflight86]

Not much more to interpret lately.

I chuckled when, at the beginning of the episode, Kyouya declared he wouldn't make the same mistakes again. You're not going to (again) change the future you don't know about? Good luck with that.

He also said picking his job up without memories was 'hard', but 'not so hard' once he got used to it. Was there supposed to be new information presented during that monologue?

Also, at the end of the episode when he was lamenting on Shino's 'loss' not four minutes after a cute scene with their entire family being perfectly happy. It could have only been more out of place if the image of their family played over him regretting it existing; bizarre.

I hope the implication is that the happy ending is for a 'have cake and eat it too' Shino gets a family and retains her passion. It's not wrong to have artistic inclinations, but sometimes it gets fetishized in anime in a strange way.

It was sad to see Kawasegawa getting chewed out for game dev problems largely out of her control. Mostly because she has accepted her defeat, as Kyouya mentioned, was not like her old self. Speaking of old selves, just how inattentive was autopilot Kyouya to not have a reputation for meddling in others business and always 'finding a way'? If he adopted that mindset back in college, he should have had it in the intermittent time until now, but none of that ambition is even hinted at in the current timeline. It doesn't add up.



And worse still, the disgusting display of Nanako thanking him, saying she needed him for her confidence, and it is her fault for ruining all the help he gave her, though only the viewers and Kyouya know she was more successful without him in the original timeline.

I don't think she was wrong for taking ownership of her career. What was her problem again- that Kyouya instilled in her? Were we ever told what damage was caused by having her compose music for an eroge? She apparently has the tools to sing and continue doing so, so maybe the impetus here is that she will still rise to stardom, or maybe even be better than before, though I admit that seems unlikely.



Definitely angers me that the message this episode is that they'll still get back up on their own and strive to be successful, when the reason they're not in 2018 is directly due to the protagonist. Even If they were struggling in some way in 2016, that's when he should have asked Kawasegawa to reach out. Instead of this "everything's shittier, but there's still hope for this world!" garbage.


Those don't have to be diametrically opposed, right? That their desire to craft overcomes the 'trauma' that working with Kyouya imparted builds them up more as resilient characters instead of damsels needing rescuing. I still hold some hope that this can result in all of them being ultimately better than before due to the experience, saving another random time jump.

[Ryllharu]

I don't think she was wrong for taking ownership of her career. What was her problem again- that Kyouya instilled in her? Were we ever told what damage was caused by having her compose music for an eroge? She apparently has the tools to sing and continue doing so, so maybe the impetus here is that she will still rise to stardom, or maybe even be better than before, though I admit that seems unlikely.
The issue isn't that she's taking ownership of her career. She's taking it back, which is a good thing. It's that 2018 Nanako placed her early success in school and in the game production on Kyouya's shoulders. He literally has nothing to do with her success. It's the opposite. She even admitted in the concert episode that she was about to convince herself that she needed to get up on stage and take the opportunity. But she misinterpreted that as him giving her that final push, forgetting that her own drive pushed her to a place where she wanted to be.
2018 Nanako is ignorant of the fact that she was more successful without him. So that eats at Kyouya, but as the audience we get to see her naively thanking him for the mediocrity she's had up until now. And not wanting to put the "work he did" to waste. We and Kyouya know he made her worse with his bad advice during the game development and telling her that it was okay.

In Kyouya choosing Shino, Nanako gave up in the most gentle way possible. She lacked the confidence that she thought Kyouya was giving her, but we know his meddling was actually making her worse, and she didn't go independent. "someone as unremarkable as me."

She sang covers. A lot, as indicated by her return video being, "...an original. How long has it been since I've done an original?" Probably based on the concert as well as him telling her derivative work on the dating sim was fine, skewing her perceptions on what she was actually capable of and wanted to be.


Those don't have to be diametrically opposed, right? That their desire to craft overcomes the 'trauma' that working with Kyouya imparted builds them up more as resilient characters instead of damsels needing rescuing. I still hold some hope that this can result in all of them being ultimately better than before due to the experience, saving another random time jump.
Because Nanako is thanking him for being a shitty NicoNicoDouga cover signer. And Shino grew to hate art so much she tells her husband she no longer has any desire to do art and lies to her daughter to hide it.

Because they both still have the impression that Kyouya, being the capable superhero he is, was right with his retrospectively horrible advice (he and we both know he lied to them at the time) and they accepted giving up on what they loved, or struggling with it to the point that throwing in the towel is okay.

[David75]

It might be we'll soon start Kawasegawa's route.
No Shino and Chibi Shino this week, I'm sad

[Ryllharu]

I'm too disgusted with this episode to even rage-comment about it.

[David75]

Yeah, tripped-up by Kawasegawa joining the "You're exceptional" train ?

[Ryllharu]

More that she wasn't only on the "you're so endlessly great," train, but on top of that she forgave him for everything he thinks he's done wrong, telling him it is all their faults, not his. He's apparently been undermining her at the company for years, always being the savior.

Kyouya was right that he undermined her authority. Even though he tried to salvage it with the boss and everyone else by claiming that Kawasegawa and he had talked about the plan, she knew. Her people would know too deep down. He even went back to the boss solo because he had undermined his boss' authority in front of everyone. A big no-no in Japanese businesses. He narrowly skirted the line that allowed his boss to save face. Another lethal Japanese business act.

Kyouya was actually having positive character development about what being in creative collaborations really means, Kawasegawa's sister's advice all along, and Kawasegawa hand waved it all away. Kyouya swooping in to salvage the situation miraculously (which the boss even said he's done a lot in the gap years Kyouya knows nothing about) hurts someone. He knows it now.

I was actually somewhat happy with this episode character development wise until the airport scenes, though the plans to save the game programming wise are actually pure bullshit. The PR response, time off, and player apologems...basically the same thing as Final Fantasy A Realm Reborn.

The others mediocrity is not solely his fault. True. But he had a significant part to play. Kawasegawa just doesn't know that the time/dimensional jumps are real.

So I don't hate Kyouya this episode. I hate what he's turned Kawasegawa into. He summoned Keiko because he knew that he had failed again, but now has the proper attitude and life lessons to fix either 2016 itself or 2007.

[David75]

I guess we'll get 24 eps, so I expect some bumps on the way to the true end.
I'm pretty sure he can mess everything up big time at least twice before getting to the true end :D

And yes, I wonder how he could negociate for the engine, convert the work that flawlessly and think everything else to a point he wins all arguments.
Never happens in real life because people and time...

[Ryllharu]

They just replaced the .exe and voilà...game runs on new engine.

I'm very certain that's not how programs work.

[MFauli]

I'm too disgusted with this episode to even rage-comment about it.

LOL, I'm actually on your side this week ;D I kinda suspect your early rant was a spoiler because you already knew the story, huh? ;p

The entire episode really was 'kyouya so awesome'. The worst scene for me was when he let Kawasegawa delude himself into truly believing that his presence in the past didn't negatively impact the others. Um, yes it fukkin did. :/ Ofc, Kawasegawa doesn't know about the time travel, but HE DOES. So pls spare us the 'She's right!' false-realization. Ugh

Oh, and now he'll go back again? Man, if he really erases his daughter, that'd make this one of the worst anime ever lol.

[Ryllharu]

LOL, I'm actually on your side this week ;D I kinda suspect your early rant was a spoiler because you already knew the story, huh? ;p
...
Oh, and now he'll go back again? Man, if he really erases his daughter, that'd make this one of the worst anime ever lol.
I'm pretty sure you're trolling, but I don't read LNs. The last one I read was Haganai's between the two anime seasons. It's easy to guess what will happen in this series because it is so predictable.

So here's the fucked up part...he doesn't know his daughter. He doesn't act like he knows her all that well either. We've seen him play with her once while Shino was busy cooking dinner, but that was really a setup to double-down on the point that Shino doesn't draw anymore and never will (and that it's not his fault...except it is). On screen at least, he's ignored her more than he's interacted with her.

He probably won't be too broken up about abandoning a child that is in theory, his. Maybe autopilot Kyouya was a better dad, but POV Kyouya is a shitty one.

Strongly recommend you go watch Nicholas Cage's The Family Man (2000).

[David75]

They just replaced the .exe and voilà...game runs on new engine.

I'm very certain that's not how programs work.

Unless the data structure is exactly the same, for example if the inhouse engine is inspired by that original engine.
But if Kyouya was able to make it economically viable after trashing all the money/time spent in the in house engine, I wonder why no one quickly thought of this.
I understand they got that project started like this, but still...

[neflight86]

I'm too disgusted with this episode to even rage-comment about it.

Oh boy. Lemme level with ya- watching this visualizing Ryllharu's rage at the Kyoya endorsement scenes makes this ten times more entertaining. It shouldn't, but when I know how pitch perfect the show is continually rejecting your ideals, it is amusing, to say the least. Like watching someone get accidentally trolled. I know you don't really care all that much; it's mediocre anime, but I do appreciate the hot takes.

Episode itself:

Having the dirty deets of CEO man on deck was a bit of a stretch for me, but I can hand wave the game engine stuff because I don't care enough about game development to get stuck on those points- the scene did its job and let Kyouya be super awesome, as usual- awesome enough to hurt people at which I know have been trained to laugh in response to.

I also find it meta-funny that Kawasegawa not only affirmed Kyouya's goodness and abstained him from his perpetual guilt trip, but took umbrage with anyone who says otherwise, like the author is aware of the hate-train. I pretty much agreed with most of what she said: Kyouya tried to help and it didn't work out, but I don't see the stunting of fickle artists as reasonable proof of negligence or malicious intent. Live and let live because he didn't knowingly cause the time loop. I'd be hard pressed to change on that line of thinking. He even did help inspire another artist, so going back might undo that? Is there a happy medium in this next time loop (of course there is)?

Keep seething; this show really is an awkward pity party without the backlash.

[Ryllharu]

Ok then. Here's a rant. Maybe my final one, maybe not.

Episode 12
------------


Bullshit he went back in time because he, "wanted to struggle." He had that in 2016, he just didn't want to try from the failures. Kyouya wanted to "struggle" in the sense that he wanted to succeed amazingly with the people he "should" have been with had he made the right decision to follow his dreams in 2005. Kyouya is a coward who made a bad choice, regretted it, and did what he could do to repair it only to give up every time he hit a setback, because he was a coward.

Thankfully, he seems to have learned from that in the last few episodes.

I'll give him a pass on "not wanting to cheat" because he just spent a month being completely blind to two years of tech he's never seen before, and fixing that same break by relying on his team, even if he was basically working behind Kawasegawa's back.

He's still a coward for wanting to go back to 2006 though. I can give him some leniency because he did get to know them all, and did wish for their best interests, even as he was hurting them in the long run. Though he did at least confront giving up Maki. Keiko should have fucked with him and sent him back to 2016. Maybe that's the final arc for the unfinished novels, who knows.

I did like Aki going full art nerd on him though, getting back her spark and seeing the ideas flow and flow and flow. That's what a mental block getting cleared feels like. Excitement again.

Points for finally accepting his own ego and arrogance. But I don't trust Kyouya with his words. He's said before he'd stop giving up, starting with the wrong camera incident, but then he did over and over again anyway. I need to see actions before I can trust that his character development has finally stuck. He's right back to trying to guide them. Sure, undoing the things he did, but that's not exactly what he told Keiko right before she gave him another redo. Nudge Nanako into independence. Figure out how to get Aki over her block. "I need to help..."
That's literally what he told Keiko he wasn't going to do! I think it is safe to assume that this will be another failure loop. Hopefully, this infuriating trash doesn't get a second season and we'll never find out.

There's the answer with Nanako. She's famous for game OSTs and anime songs, particularly telling by her concert attire. She's basically a Kuribayashi Minami. She might even be modeled after her specifically, since Kuribayashi wrote the Kimi ga Nozomu Eien game theme songs.

Hold on. I did not expect Ayaka to be their age! I thought she was 5-10 years younger than the rest of them.

[David75]

Had the same reaction for Ayaka. I thought she said the game saved her love for drawing when she was in highschool.
Unless for some reason highschoolers can get art tutoring at the university ?

[MFauli]

Ayaka is just the worst character of the show. Wish her all the worst.

Finale was bad. I assumevthe manga continues, but I have no idea why anybody would want to see more.

Also, the random time travel loli is fucking dumb. Thx for giving anime a bad image, sigh.

[neflight86]

Best comedy of the season, hands down.

When Kyouya told loli timekeeper that he needed to say goodbye to someone, I wondered who it could be? The assistant lady on Kawasegawa's team was the first that came to mind, or maybe the artist? Kawasegawa? Nope, the family. Fair enough. But then, in a stroke of comedic gold, he lied in bed, listening to Shinoaki tell him about how she wants to do art again and implies it will be harder on him since he will need to pick up the slack in raising their daughter, and the whole time, I imagined him, with his blank face, thinking "Good thing this won't be my problem". I let out a Mark Hamill worthy Joker cackle at the thought of how stupid the entire scene was. Saying 'goodbye' to someone you're about to go back in time and meet, who is till the same core person, and listening, straight faced, to their impassioned monologue about how they just now want to make art which you are about to rewind with time travel. Truly, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Anyway, Now that he has had an active hand in going back in time, he is fully accountable (in my eyes) for what happens to those around him. Funny that this time skip is only back to where he has already done damage, and so he can only perform triage at this point.


I think it is safe to assume that this will be another failure loop.

Did I just watch mid-life-crisis RE:Zero? It's right in the title. The loops take so long that I kind of forgot there could be multiple. The show had me sold on each loop being the last so far, but this probably makes more sense.

Good on him for fixing the 'harm' he inflicted by making tuition money for Tsurayuki, also known as work experience (I'll probably die on this hill that he didn't do anything malicious). At least the story is giving the girls (and Tsurayuki apparently) an opportunity to readjust and resume creating. Its not like there was enough run time to tie up the story in any satisfying way, so here to another oddball take on 'fixing' our boring lives that we'll forget in two weeks. Fun discussion, as always.

[Ryllharu]

My first reaction to him learning it was Ayaka was, "Did Kyouya just creep on a high school student in her art club room to find a solution for Aki's slump?!"