Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou. [Archive]

neflight86

Wed, 04-14-2021, 10:57 AM

1894

"* Based on a slice-of-life romantic comedy light novel series written by Shimesaba and illustrated by Booota.

Yoshida is an ordinary guy who was rejected hard by the woman he'd spent the last 5 years having a crush on. On his way home after getting drunk at a bar, he finds a teenage girl crouched on the side of the road...

"If you let me stay at your place, you can sleep with me."
"You shouldn't say that, even as a joke."
"Then let me stay over for free."

Before he knows it, the girl, Sayu, has moved in with him. This is the story of a runaway teen girl and an ordinary 26-year old man.

Source: Hakuhodo DY MaP"

Genre(s): Drama, Romance

____________________

eps 1,2

...If you look really hard, you might find some... spirited conversation in another thread for this show. I'm enjoying the premise enough and the assertiveness of grumpy main character is refreshing. "I like you... no, huh. That's too bad"., and then the next episode "Why did you ask me out to dinner? You know that got my hopes up." Romance works in a different, non-anime way when people are able to make clear their emotions and intents. I feel like there is a lot of potential for the story to be especially dense if internal misunderstandings aren't going to be used as a content expanding crutch. The girls are all adorable in their own ways, too. So far, so good.

Kraco

Wed, 04-14-2021, 03:28 PM

MFauli

Wed, 04-14-2021, 04:07 PM

On the other hand, its a total chad-move on Yoshida's side to hit on his boss, lol. Didn't know that in ep 1.

Ryllharu

Wed, 04-14-2021, 04:16 PM

I'm not a fan of the boss. She turned Yoshida's approach down by telling him she's already in a relationship. It seemed plausible enough when it happened in the first ep, but now Gotou's basically either jealous or decided to make fun of the dude. If she's already taken, she's borderline cheating on her man, if she's not, why did she give the dude such an answer? Why not say, in any suitable words, that she's not ready for it at least for the time being? Yoshida should just forget all about her and not let her entertain herself at his expense.

The friend at work said it. The game starts the moment they say no.

There's women out there who are only interested in "taken" men. It's sometimes an ego thing, and it almost certainly is for Gotou. She knows she's attractive. She doesn't seem the type to actually fish for compliments, but she's absolutely interested in the playing the game that his friend is referring to. If she was a compliment fishing type, she'd be the weak ego type that constantly needs validation and feels threatened when she's not the center of attention. So she is the prideful ego type. Has a good self opinion, but doesn't tolerate any threats to her domination of an environment.

She wouldn't have casually told him her cup size if she wasn't still interested in securing his attentions. She's flirting. But she only became interested when she thought he had given up on her right away and found another girlfriend. She desperately needed to know, to the point that she spent money on barbecue to ask a single question.

Who else is like that? Mami in Rental Girlfriend.

She's not making fun of him. She's deeply jealous and needed to patch up her wounded pride. Gotou also noticed that the other woman at work seems interested in him, and she doesn't like that either.

The error-prone coworker is kind of the opposite case. She seems to really respect him, and the notion of being separated at work was what troubled her. Their connection feels like one that would potentially gradually blossom into a healthy relationship.

And I do expect that Gotou will find her to be a threat. She was surprised to find out it isn't Mishima he was involved in, but it was his follow-up response that made her relax. Even if she is a boss, she's definitely not concerned about the work environment. She's thinking about herself.

shinta|hikari

Wed, 04-14-2021, 06:02 PM

We all know he's going to end up with the jailbait. Why even bother entertaining other scenarios?

Ryllharu

Wed, 04-14-2021, 06:58 PM

I've have little doubt.

But I also expect significant nastiness from Gotou. Towards Mishima. Towards the lead when he eventually really does get over her. Towards Sayu once she finds out about her...

KrayZ33

Thu, 04-15-2021, 01:26 AM

We all know he's going to end up with the jailbait. Why even bother entertaining other scenarios?

But by the time it happens she will be jailbait no more!

Kraco

Thu, 04-15-2021, 02:18 AM

The friend at work said it. The game starts the moment they say no.

There's women out there who are only interested in "taken" men.

All the more reason to forget her and stay away from her. If the dude has been thinking of her for years, it doesn't really suggest he only ever wanted to spend a single night with her. If they had got into a relationship, she would have been likely to cheat on him. She might get jealous when a man (previously) interested in her appears to have gone for someone else, but her choice of words and actions suggest the same rules don't apply to her own behavior.

KrayZ33

Thu, 04-15-2021, 08:36 AM

All the more reason to forget her and stay away from her. If the dude has been thinking of her for years, it doesn't really suggest he only ever wanted to spend a single night with her. If they had got into a relationship, she would have been likely to cheat on him. She might get jealous when a man (previously) interested in her appears to have gone for someone else, but her choice of words and actions suggest the same rules don't apply to her own behavior.

Well.. it could also be that her reason "I have a boyfriend already" was total bullshit and she didn't start a relationship with him because she is his boss.
But she might actually *want* to be with him... not sure how office relationships (both friendly and intimate) in Japan are like.
Now that he appears to be "unavailable" she might feel pressured and starts to regret not giving a damn about position/status or relationship principles.
You only know what you want after you've lost it.

On top of that, MC is really fucking garbage - how the F do you ask your boss "What cup size do you have". Maybe she didn't want to commit due to bullshit like that, lol. Seriously, have some manners. Kinda tells me he is in for the body and not for what he said "Love at first sight" or "I liked you since 5 years ago" or whatever it was.

neflight86

Thu, 04-15-2021, 10:36 AM

I thought the question was a mixture of petty revenge for asking him out again and getting his hopes up, and because the josei was talking (bragging) about her own cup size and MC had no frame of reference. They seemed close enough (how they discuss work and she only lets 'him' see the slovenly side of her) that the question wouldn't be out of the ballpark inappropriate.

This kind of series really stirs my inner 'fly on a wall'. I enjoy low key territorial battles, and the game of workplace romance, both of which I expect to see going forward.

KrayZ33

Thu, 04-15-2021, 11:16 AM

It's just that it seemed like he would totally nail that date and then he went and said that :D

shinta|hikari

Thu, 04-15-2021, 01:40 PM

That actually left a better impression of him from the boss's POV because she knows all the men around her are thinking it, but this honest bozo actually went and said it.

Kraco

Thu, 04-15-2021, 03:00 PM

It's just that it seemed like he would totally nail that date and then he went and said that :D

As far as he knows, there was no date to nail or fail. She rejected him and told she already has a boyfriend. That's very distinctly different from saying she's not currently looking for a relationship, doesn't yet know him well enough, needs more time, etc, which still leaves a door more or less open for him. At least among decent people, not fuckboys or slut girls, the default assumption is that a romantic relationship will last. So, if she says she's already in one, it's about as prominent and permanent a rejection as you can get, aside from telling him that she's only interested in other women. And of course some less than polite ways of telling someone to get lost and never show their face again.

KrayZ33

Fri, 04-16-2021, 08:08 AM

As far as he knows, there was no date to nail or fail. She rejected him and told she already has a boyfriend. That's very distinctly different from saying she's not currently looking for a relationship, doesn't yet know him well enough, needs more time, etc, which still leaves a door more or less open for him. At least among decent people, not fuckboys or slut girls, the default assumption is that a romantic relationship will last. So, if she says she's already in one, it's about as prominent and permanent a rejection as you can get, aside from telling him that she's only interested in other women. And of course some less than polite ways of telling someone to get lost and never show their face again.

Be that as it may, but just because she's taken doesn't mean you no longer leave an image of yourself whereever you go or with whomever you interact with.

neflight86

Thu, 04-22-2021, 10:27 AM

3

That felt a bit forced, as I expect was intended. I get the girl's hang up, but is it a like a japanese trope or something to be so cynical? Does actual no-strings-attached altruism come off as such a strange concept? Then again, considering her (previous) company, it can be forgiven.

Office lady is pretty forward in her approach, and that is cute in its own way- I'm still not used to adults in anime, apparently.

So with our main three established, we have: younger/same/older, and obligated/interested/leading on. Should be fun going forward, especially since he 'owes' her an explanation. Part of me forgets that word 'getting out' about his live-in is required for the story to be spurred into development, but I want the cozy stage to continue on...

Kraco

Sat, 04-24-2021, 04:07 PM

I bet it was a deadly boring movie they watched. If the best moment was some corny line from a professor, how good could it have been?

neflight86

Tue, 04-27-2021, 07:56 AM

4

Boss lady told a biiiiiig ol' fib, it seems. That he blatantly said she would have to ask him out now is both a power play and some contrived scenario crafting...

I hope the school girl doesn't clash with Gotou too much. This doesn't seem like that kind of cat-fight show, anyway.

Circling back around- I can barely stand the clerk girl, but the story absolutely needed a blunt instrument to begin smashing the porcelain china starting to take itself too seriously. I welcome her inclusion and look forward to more meddlesome hijinks.

MFauli

Tue, 04-27-2021, 09:59 AM

neflight86

Tue, 04-27-2021, 11:07 AM

If characters (in rom com anime) acted like that, there wouldn't be enough exploration space left to fill out the rest of the series, so him being an herbivore just has to be the assumption.

KrayZ33

Tue, 04-27-2021, 03:09 PM

The guy is gay. Sorry, this is just bs anime-behavior. Even if he wanted to be a gentleman and not instantly fuck a virgin, he could have said "ok, then to prove that you're serious, let's go to your place and fool around a bit. Don't worry, I won't rush you for sex". That way he could have ascertained that she's not telling him another lie and still respect her being a virgin.

But no, he fully retreats from anything sexual and even gives her the power to decide a date. So now he's forced to wait forever ... possible literally, when she has a change of heart and picks another guy.

Bs.

Gosh...why do you even watch tv/play video games/read books.

All the situations and scenes you could think off or want would end in 2 pages worth of conent

If this weren't anime/a movie and if this were a portrayal of real life situations, this whole scene wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Also, what's this weird undertone in that bit that suggest that "fucking a virgin" is somehow something special or something to strife for or a "real hit" or something. Geeee. Like out of a flipping 90s teenager movie.

I also think that you actually failed to follow their conversation properly.
Him being a gentleman? He was the one asking her to sleep with him to find out if she was saying the truth, so he kinda did what you asked anyway.

The Conversation was
F: I like you
M: Ha you are kidding
F: No I'm not
M: Then if you mean it, lets have sex
F:
M:
M:....Just kidding
F: (mustering up some courage to say it) Okay lets do it, I'm a virgin though if that's fine
M: ~~Yo wait a sec, that would make me feel bad, I don't want to be a douche
F: Do you not like virgins?
M: Nah I'm good that's not the problem, lets go slow, you tell me when you are ready (although I act as if I might deny your date request and leave you hanging)

In that regard, I find his reasoning and reaction rather normal. You'd have to be some seriously fucked up person and not interested in the woman at all if you follow through with that first suggestion.

I think the actual BS part is male MC asking something weird again.
That whole thing is so unnatural and the way he acts in general is. Not sure if he's actually retarded/awkward around girls/superiors or just super nervous around her all the time because he likes her. He is basically anime-mc emotionally dead towards romantic interests at one point and then demands and asks super awkward stuff in the next scene as if he is a 16 year old.

Ryllharu

Tue, 04-27-2021, 05:08 PM

Thing is...I don't believe Gotou at all. Not about a single thing she said in the restaurant.

This is exactly the type of series that emphasizes how women lie for effect and power. Sayu's self-worth is damaged by how she's lived since she ran away. We know she's got along by sleeping with various men until they kick her out, then moves south onto the next one. They've emphasized multiple times that Sayu's smiles are an act. The convenience store girl even outright told him that all her smiles are different, implying many are lies, after confirming that he is genuine and isn't sleeping with Sayu (I got the feeling she would have reported him if he was).

Gotou's lied to him before. She's lied about taking him out for dinner so she could ask if he had a girlfriend (and assumed it was Mishima) after he obviously lost interest in her. I have little doubt she's lying about being a virgin. She watches him at work extensively, and intervened with the dinner invitation because he was getting close to Mishima.

Sayu is a very good manipulator, I assume she's played the "Um...I'm a virgin, if that's okay," card herself. But she has nothing on Gotou.

The only woman I believe is Mishima, but only partially. She's not incompetent, and can fix her own work. Wouldn't be surprised if she is deliberately fucking up to spend more time with Yoshida. Long nights, walks to the last few trains of the night, etc. But at least she isn't lying about her feelings, and wasn't lying to Sayu.

Mishima is the 'genuine' one, Sayu is in the middle, and Gotou is master class and the fakest.

edit:
If it wasn't clear that Gotou played him twice...

- She took him out to dinner, for the sole purpose of asking if he was dating someone, specifically Mashima. In exchange, he learned her cup size. It was a question-for-a-question exchange. Big prying question answered in exchange for a personal, but not exactly secret answer (which doubled as an seduction tease).

- They repeated the same same exercise this time. She leads him into the same exchange, she implies there's a reason he changed, specifically recalling their last dinner together, same table and everything. In doing so, she goaded him into asking the first question. He asks why, she gives him the 'explanation' and then she counters with a question that forces him to bring up Sayu specifically.
He gives away a huge secret, while there's absolutely no way to know if she was telling the truth.

Kraco

Sat, 05-01-2021, 09:50 AM

Yeah, I agree with Ryll on Gotou, though I believe I've already said as much before. I wouldn't believe anything she says. Too bad Yoshida apparently likes her for real, so he's going to keep swallowing the hook, line, and sinker, and ask for a second dose afterwards. Dude has absolutely no alarms in his mind. But maybe being like that is why he could help Sayu in the first place.

It's a giant pity that under the Japanese bullshit system Yoshida can't actually refuse those bar/dinner invitations from a boss. It seemed like even he found it strange she kept asking him out after rejecting his proposal, but there's nothing he can do about it. I'm actually somewhat satisfied he asked the rude questions, because, honestly, that's the only sort of return fire he could aim at Gotou.

MFauli

Mon, 05-03-2021, 11:27 AM

Episode 5:

If a guy followed a woman like that he'd be branded creepy stalker forever.

Edit: Aaand there comes the superfluous rape-subplot, ugh. :/ I hate that guy already.

Ryllharu

Mon, 05-03-2021, 04:02 PM

Gotou's speech was a weird mix of the anime trope, "You can only be a high school girl once!" (which is BS, uniform cosplay is a fetish there for a reason) and also saying that she has the special label of "high school girl" and that's all she'll ever been viewed as, with all that entails both positive and negative.

She made it sound like the same argument, but it is actually two different ones, both used to get Sayu out of Yoshida's apartment (and out of his life).

First she made it clear that a high school girl (the label) will make others view the current situation negatively no matter how Sayu and Yoshida act. While that's true, everyone else they've explained it to so far has figured out there's really nothing going on. Then Gotou followed up putting Sayu down by praising her, saying she can only be a high school girl once, and needs to use that status to go back home and be one.

To summarize, "You're only causing trouble here, get the fuck out, and go back home to be where you're supposed to since you're just a child."

Which is a really strange argument coming from a woman who just claimed she was still a virgin, to a girl who just admitted to her that she's been through some tough times, and had to become a prostitute to get away from the unspecified thing that she's fleeing from. Then she followed it up with, "go back home to your nightmare."

The open eyes while hugging her is also a stark contrast from Mishima, who actually comforted her on the park bench, by not lecturing her, but just letting her be, and talk at her own pace.

Then she tosses on the anime romance grenade, "Will you support me?" which is always shady high school bullshit that only gets asked when one person already knows there's a triangle and tries to fend off one side of it.

At least Mishima called herself a stalker, but the way it came off felt more like she was watching out for him, because Gotou is shady as hell when it comes to him. Mishima would know he's acting odd around Gotou, and she's also know how many other coworkers Gotou takes out to ask them stupid questions over dinner. They all work together, and they've established that Mishima is observant well before she went full-stalker.

Mishima gets right to the point and asks him what his priorities are, where Gotou goes after the weak link who is already wracked with guilt and has very few options to begin with. Further, all the advice Mishima is giving to him, she's also telling herself.

I can safely say the only truth Gotou said the entire episode was, "There's no telling what feelings she has that might suddenly burst out." Her posture and delivery changed for a second there before she plastered the smile back on. She said it as a warning to herself.

Pretty sure the store clerk guy is the one she was having sex with in the flashback-dream from the cold opening in episode 3.
Of course, he knew her as "Miyuki."

neflight86

Tue, 05-04-2021, 08:01 AM

Did not make the connection with pretty boy.

I have a habit of giving the characters in this show the benefit of the doubt that they are all generally 'good' with varying circumstances, but the way Ryll is interpreting things is making this much more interesting. Please continue.

Mishima is a fun kind of busybody. She inserts herself into other's business and causes friction that advances the plot forward without surrendering too much attention from herself.

Edit: Aaand there comes the superfluous rape-subplot, ugh. :/ I hate that guy already.

That escalated quickly.

Kraco

Tue, 05-04-2021, 04:14 PM

I wouldn't go as far as Ryll when evaluating Gotou, but it's certainly an intriguing way to view her. If she really wanted Sayu gone, she could have done things much differently. She also didn't, after meeting Sayu, try to pressure Yoshida anymore. Though naturally there's a chance she simply views this situation as exceedingly interesting and wants to play with it. You can't be a manipulator if you haven't got anyone to manipulate.

I feel like Mishima doesn't quite understand what she wants, herself. Perhaps it's her impatience and fear of losing Yoshida (to someone else) speaking. She must like Yoshida largely because of how and what he is, but that same thing also made Yoshida help Sayu. So, if she wants Yoshida to get rid of Sayu, it also means Yoshida can't anymore be what made her fall for him.

David75

Wed, 05-05-2021, 01:25 AM

Art quality wasn't high to begin with, it's not even really important for that kind of show... unless character faces/proportions start getting quite awful. Am I the only one noticing it ? I understand we're entering the middle eps and every shows tend to lower budget and QC for middle season/cour eps. But I felt like it was going down quite a bit here.

KrayZ33

Wed, 05-05-2021, 03:10 PM

David75

Thu, 05-06-2021, 01:52 AM

For some reason I felt it was way worse. Might be because I had no other interrest than finding art problems :rolleyes:

Ryllharu

Wed, 05-12-2021, 04:59 PM

Episode 6

--------------

This episode made me remember that the last anime I've seen that deals with the complications of exes and sex in a realistic way without getting self-righteous, melodramatic, or "basically first high school romance regardless of age" is NANA.

I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough.

It escalated too quickly (directly to extortion attempted rape!), resolved just as quickly and cleanly (the guy leaves despite having a power position over the both of them and Yoshida is already comforting Sayu minutes later), and he calmly apologizes the next day because Asami told him to?! Worse, it gets all saccharine with Asami in the park at the end. Overall, a serious low point for the series.

Honestly, the only good parts about this week's episode were the aftermath. Asami displays a level of contempt for Sayu and the fakeness of her internal suppression and submissiveness. Alluded to before, now she's starting to call her out on it. Given her background, it makes sense why she dislikes that false front so much.

I almost even appreciate that Yaguchi accused Yoshida of grooming her into a yamato nadesico, and he's kinda right. We know there's no ill intent, but that's precisely what's happening.

MFauli

Thu, 05-13-2021, 07:39 PM

WTF

Just watched the latest episode.

This was the WORST way of handling attempted rape/sexual assault I've ever seen in fictional media. Every scene after the attempt was stopped was one moment of disbelief chained to the other. WTF. I'm still in shock at how bad that was. Just ... wtf!

Fuck anyone trying to say "this was a realistic depiction", no it was not. I'll say it out aloud now: Shit like this makes real women hesitate to go to the police. After all, .... let's just get along with the rapist again, laugh together, and boys will be boys, amirite?! :/

Man, fuck this anime.

There was only one correct line in the whole episode. When rapist-san told the hero guy "you feel good, like youre saving her. We're both criminals". Exactly. Not that Rapist-san isnt a lot worse, but hero-san is an idiot, too, and he's not helping the girl by letting her stay with him.

Anyway. Fuck this shit. Attempted rape and THAT is all the consequences? Guess rape isn't so bad after all, we better let all the rapists out of prison and join together for some beers and have a good time.

Fuck ...

Ryllharu

Fri, 05-14-2021, 04:11 AM

This was the WORST way of handling attempted rape/sexual assault I've ever seen in fictional media. Every scene after the attempt was stopped was one moment of disbelief chained to the other. WTF. I'm still in shock at how bad that was. Just ... wtf!

Fuck anyone trying to say "this was a realistic depiction", no it was not. I'll say it out aloud now: Shit like this makes real women hesitate to go to the police. After all, .... let's just get along with the rapist again, laugh together, and boys will be boys, amirite?! :/
I'll take the hit for this one.

What I meant to say but failed to convey correctly was the last time any sort of shit like this was handled in a realistic way (less rape, but more about relationships between young adults that treat sex like it is a normal thing) without melodrama or being self-righteous was NANA, a series that aired 15 years ago. That's the last anime I'm aware of that even comes close to getting it right.

This was the worst episode of this series, by far, felt like it was written and directed by children. In no way was this realistic, it was retarded.

In short: The absolute shittiness of this episode made me nostalgic for NANA.

MFauli

Fri, 05-14-2021, 05:44 AM

I'll take the hit for this one.

I wasn't attacking you, Ryll. I was halfway through the episode and wanted to make my above rant. Kept watching to see if it gets better - no, got even worse.

neflight86

Fri, 05-14-2021, 07:47 AM

Small world... that was handled... oddly. Yes, this is an insulated fictional story where characters and scenarios exist to facilitate the coupling of the main two characters, but it is done so half-heartedly. The closest anime to doing this I can think of from recent memory was actually Happy Sugar Life, an(other) airy, flowery, psychological horror piece where 'horror/fiction logic' prevented characters from making rational decisions because the plot was written to require it.

I get the depiction of Japanese as being largely docile and subservient in anime media, but this was a bit hard to swallow. There may have been some room for interpretation if the escalation/extortion had left something to the imagination. Forcing himself on her in someone else's apartment? Setting him up for hatred, and giving him some token redemption later feels like status quo check boxing at this point. This story is clearly more interested in being idyllic than realistic; I'm still interested in seeing where this goes.

I think the actual draw here is the adult romance side of this story with MC and his office cohorts; not the teenager runaway's runaway drama, so this episode was a bit weaker for focusing on that, too.

MFauli

Fri, 05-14-2021, 09:40 AM

. This story is clearly more interested in being idyllic than realistic.

That's why scenes like this shouldn't even be in this story. We always knew that, yes, she had sex with guys before meeting Yoshida. But we didn't need to *see* that, right? And now this attempted rape scene that even the author himself didnw know how to fit into this otherwise saccharine story. He couldn't and therefore it turned into an outrageous mess.

Honestly, putting this into the anime gives me the feeling that I'm actually watching this season's Redo of Healer in disguise. Meaning: this is actually some 'edgy' anime that relies on shock factor to sell. There just wasn't any need for this to happen and WHEN it needs to happen, then please show us the proper consequences, too.

Ugh ...

Ryllharu

Fri, 05-14-2021, 02:23 PM

That's why scenes like this shouldn't even be in this story. We always knew that, yes, she had sex with guys before meeting Yoshida. But we didn't need to *see* that, right? And now this attempted rape scene that even the author himself didnw know how to fit into this otherwise saccharine story. He couldn't and therefore it turned into an outrageous mess.

The rationale for Yaguchi knowing he could get away with it is that Sayu couldn't go to the police and Yoshida couldn't do anything about it either.

- She couldn't claim he was stalking her home by going to the police, they would have figured out she's missing person from Hokkaido.
- Neither she or Yoshida could report him sexually assaulting her for the same reasons. It would get all three of them in court.

I can see why the author and director thought this worked, it just didn't, and the execution in the anime at least was horrible in terms of pacing and tone. It's a whole crisis invented and resolved in half an episode. If they had dragged it out more across several episodes and weeks before Yaguchi decided to call her out, maybe it wouldn't be as shitty.

MFauli

Fri, 05-14-2021, 02:54 PM

The rationale for Yaguchi knowing he could get away with it is that Sayu couldn't go to the police and Yoshida couldn't do anything about it either.

- She couldn't claim he was stalking her home by going to the police, they would have figured out she's missing person from Hokkaido.
- Neither she or Yoshida could report him sexually assaulting her for the same reasons. It would get all three of them in court.

I can see why the author and director thought this worked, it just didn't, and the execution in the anime at least was horrible in terms of pacing and tone. It's a whole crisis invented and resolved in half an episode. If they had dragged it out more across several episodes and weeks before Yaguchi decided to call her out, maybe it wouldn't be as shitty.

See, that's the thing, and you said it yourself: I fully understand the contruction the author wrote up for all of this. He thought "if A does B, then B will do C and to counter that A must do D, and ..... and then Y leads to Z. Perfect, I solved the puzzle!" - except attempted rape is not a puzzle, not something you can dismiss easily like that.

Ugh, I'm still in disbelief. I admit that I'm anti-censorship and think everything should be allowed in fiction. So I won't say "this shouldn't be allowed". But I will say, nonetheless: This anime reflects poorly on Japan's concept of justice and equality. Not that that's new. Basically every shounen anime or jrpg where a villain that murdered other people is later invited into the hero party is showing the poor concept of justice in Japanese entertainment media.

Ryllharu

Fri, 05-14-2021, 03:23 PM

Let's ignore anime for a second and focus on the reality of Japan:

It is a very sexist and unjust society.

- 99% conviction rate. Almost entirely reliant on confessions. Which their police and prosecutors work at tirelessly to get, rather than do any investigative work. Their death row makes America's look like Europe's justice system, and America is a revenge-based justice system.

- Culturally, women are second class citizens in almost every way possible. After decades of promising to do better, they are globally ranked in the mid 100s for gender equality on multiple fronts. It's so deeply ingrained. Sexual assault is commonplace, and effectively ignored. It's only recently started to drop as reporting went up and separate public transportation has increased.

Back to the anime...it's not censorship it needed, it was just serious editing. Cut the entire segment out because it added nothing, and it was a wasted conflict to open and shut within a single day.

Kraco

Sun, 05-16-2021, 01:07 PM

It took me a week to finally manage to watch the episode because I knew the contents from the manga. It was so annoying with that fuckboy, but it was ten times more annoying with the fuckboy actually shutting Yoshida up with his fuckboy logic. You'd think the older Yoshida in the white collar society would have enough life experience to come up with answers when talking with a younger dude, but apparently no. It was so disappointing.

Yaguchi behavior isn't particularly strange. He's only interested in having sex with many girls, he's not interested in making the girls' lives harder. Apparently he genuinely missed Sayu (as a sex doll), so he pushed her to get what he wanted, but there's nothing for him in trying to expose her or anything. It won't help him to get sex. This is good to keep in mind if you think his behavior was goofy and didn't represent rapists.

This anime reflects poorly on Japan's concept of justice and equality. Not that that's new. Basically every shounen anime or jrpg where a villain that murdered other people is later invited into the hero party is showing the poor concept of justice in Japanese entertainment media.

That's universal justice, not Japanese justice. Stalin had as many people murdered as Hitler, but still Stalin was most welcome to the same table with Churchill and Roosevelt, to smoke cigars and drink whisky. Just because by opposing Hitler Stalin was suddenly a great hero, despite being guilty of seeing millions of people to their deaths. Can you even have a more extreme example demonstrating why it's global justice? You can argue against it all you want, but that's just how the world works. Nothing wrong about having a bit of bitter realism in shounen every now and then.

Kraco

Tue, 05-18-2021, 05:07 PM

Episode 7

Finally stuff that's new to me, having passed what I've read of the manga.

- --- -

Interesting. When the new dude appeared, I immediately thought he didn't look like the kind of lowlife Sayu would have lived with for a time, in exchange for sexual services. After all, the dude has obviously hired a private detective to hunt down Sayu. That's not cheap business. If it wasn't a private detective but an actual employee, that's even more expensive! Such a dude, it's kind of hard to imagine how he would have even met Sayu in the first place, let alone hapzardly risked his obvious station to mess with her. Although I guess it does happen. That being said, I didn't expect his identity to be her brother. He might be the biggest risk ever for Yoshida, especially if the fuckboy's analysis of him is correct: That he's someone who enjoys using his power. Wouldn't that mean he would enjoy ruining Yoshda's life, regardless of what Sayu has got to say? The only thing stopping him could be if making Sayu's own past public would actually hurt the dude more. If he's a young, famous CEO, there are plenty of rags in Japan that would absolutely love to make a scandalous article about the CEO's sister being an underage prostitute.

Mishima was actually pretty funny in this episode. She sure loves giving people lectures. No wonder Gotou called her cute.

MFauli

Tue, 05-18-2021, 06:11 PM

shinta|hikari

Tue, 05-18-2021, 10:11 PM

Maybe the brother fucks her at home.

Kraco

Wed, 05-19-2021, 02:17 AM

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

So the reason why Sayu ran from home, worked as a prostitute and is fine being raped is ... rebelling against her RICH dad? Wow ...

This anime is such a pile of shit garbage at this point. And here I thought her casually conversing with her rapist was the low point, but no ....

It would depend on why she's rebelling against her rich dad. From an earlier flashback (in ep 4) I got a suspicion someone died, likely through a suicide. It was probably her best friend or something like that. If it led to Sayu running away from home, I imagine, at the very least, her family prevented her from attending the funeral and everything else. Maybe they even prevented her from helping the friend before the suicide.

Somehow, from your comment, I get a feeling that even if her rich dad had been molesting her, you still wouldn't sympathise with her running away. You were so quick to judge her actions as a pile of garbage.

Also the fuckboy isn't her rapist. She consented to their relationship before. She even tried to make Yoshida have sex with her in the beginning. Technically she even consented to the latest attempt, but since it was through blackmail, I reckon it wouldn't hold in any Western court. It might in Japan. She's not living in normal circumstances. She hasn't got your leeway in choosing her social contacts. Having a public job already backfired, like this episode showed. The dude was working at the shop before her, plus her only friend Asami is there. It wouldn't have been so simple for her to leave the shop and look for another part-time place.

Maybe the brother fucks her at home.

Another Matou household, huh?

neflight86

Wed, 05-19-2021, 10:12 AM

Mishima was actually pretty funny in this episode. She sure loves giving people lectures. No wonder Gotou called her cute.

She must be the only one who's sane in her mind. I can relate, because she is the only one with the brashness to break the stalemate of confession. MC kinda brushed her (feelings) off in a cruel way, but her earnestness is endearing.

Kraco

Wed, 05-19-2021, 12:09 PM

She must be the only one who's sane in her mind. I can relate, because she is the only one with the brashness to break the stalemate of confession. MC kinda brushed her (feelings) off in a cruel way, but her earnestness is endearing.

She's the underdog, in the weakest position. She loses to Gotou, whom Yoshida already confessed to, she loses to Sayu who shares the home with Yoshida. Gotou indeed can wait and see if Yoshida is true to his word and doesn't fall for Sayu, in which case he ought to keep liking Gotou. Mishima is still in square zero, more or less. If she does nothing, she hasn't got a single chance. So, all in all, it's easy for her to talk like she did because it's her only chance.

Ryllharu

Sun, 05-23-2021, 06:01 PM

The weirdest part to me is how much better animated Asami is at this point than Sayu. Sayu looks flat in almost every scene, while Asami and Gotou are very dynamically animated. Mishima is somewhere in between, a bouncy puppy. Given that Asami is a minor side character, it's really strange.

As for why she ran away, it's very likely what Kraco said. Sayu's been sheltered for a long time, seems to have lost her only school friend to suicide, and then ran away from her family. I doubt it is as bad as a Kurenai/Matou type situation, but maybe more of business politics thing. Food company, wealthy. Marry the daughter off to have a merger, etc. Hokkaido is Japan's breadbasket, after all.

MFauli

Tue, 05-25-2021, 05:39 PM

episode 8:

I hate Sayu. It's official now.

She really is an extremely self-centered bitch.Everything is about her, and despite being thankful for everything the other people do for her, she's actually the one hitting on Yoshida, who, as we can see, is about to crumble and will probably fall for her soon.

When Mishima broke down crying, I really hoped Yoshida would unexpectedly open the door again a la "Sorry, I forgot something-" and see her cry and shout the things she did shout. This anime really goes out of its way to get Sayu what SHE wants :/

At least we ought to find out why she's ran from home next week, and it better be the best of reasons. Any "my dad expects too much" or forced marriage bs or whatever would NOT justify her behavior. Ugh.

neflight86

Thu, 05-27-2021, 08:18 AM

At least now the tension in their relationship has to amount to something. He either lets her go or he doesn't; no more piddle-farting around. He even said she should go home, and now gets to make good on that (likely hollow) statement. Push come to shove, he will have to face the fact that spending a large amount of time with a domestic partner can make you dependent on them, as commented on this episode, whether he loves her romantically or not.

Kraco

Sat, 05-29-2021, 04:13 PM

Yeah, he has become a psychologically dependent on her already. I suppose it's not anything world breaking, though, even if she now left. In fact I'd say getting rejected by Gotou aided in developing that dependency. He had been aiming for her for years, which alone would have kept him motivated from day to day, but after the rejection, he most likely felt like he had nothing in his life anymore. Then Sayu appeared conveniently, and his life suddenly wasn't empty anymore.

I'd say Yoshida is now mentally healthier than he was before meeting Sayu. He also knows Sayu has to go back home. We can only hope the brother dude isn't any snake, even though I suspect he's a cold enough businessman to work for Apple, which is why Sayu could only be a loose end for him. He would probably like to avoid any scandals, so I don't see him cause trouble for Yoshida. Nevertheless, Sayu still needs to sort out her problems back home the official way. They all know that. Of course there's the slim chance something is wrong about her family far worse than I'd expect, but I didn't get the feeling from Sayu's actions so far that the brother would have been raping her or anything. I don't see how she'd even consider going back home under such circumstances. She would have most likely disappeared the moment Yoshida, in an earlier episode, said she should return home eventually.

Ryllharu

Sat, 05-29-2021, 06:09 PM

This got cliché and boring stunningly fast.

Even other series that started with promise but turned into dumpster fires (Golden Time) are better than this. It turns out that boring is far worse than trite melodrama.

The entire middle of the episode at the festival was filler. You could skip between the karaoke box and post fireworks and not miss any development.

neflight86

Wed, 06-02-2021, 06:59 PM

9

Well, all of the pieces are here now. Did it work for you? It more or less did for me. The sympathetic friend suicide is a trope that gets me more often than not, and it comboed well with the mother's callousness. Brother was a bit too permissive for someone that holds a steady job... Give her cash and tell her to call you if she "thinks she's in danger"? Nah, she can stay at a local hotel if the objective is to give her distance from her mother.

On another note, how miserable is the depiction of the average Japanese man? It is that special to find someone who doesn't demand sexual favors for humanitarian aid of a minor?

MFauli

Thu, 06-03-2021, 04:45 AM

Sayu is a slut, confirmed.

So she left from home because her mom didn't immediately acknowledge Sayu's feelings, then accused her brother of forsaking her, too, only because he wouldn't send her money anymore, and then she started having sex with strangers because that was the easiest solution.

Look, losing a friend to suicide is terrible. But when two sentences from your mom that you don't like make you leave her for a life in prostitution, and even when you have a great, supportive brother (we all thought he'd be some asshole, haha), then fault lies with you.

This has been a true trainwreck of a series and even the animation got worse. What's up with many of the scenes her, Sayu's face was messed up lol.

Anyway ... pls don't become prositutes over a mean mom, dear girls.

Kraco

Thu, 06-03-2021, 04:59 AM

Well, all of the pieces are here now. Did it work for you? It more or less did for me. The sympathetic friend suicide is a trope that gets me more often than not, and it comboed well with the mother's callousness.

It was already heavily suggested in an earlier episode that Sayu's friend would kill herself, so it wasn't any big surprise. I suppose this was quite a textbook background. Still worlds above any incest shit, though.

Brother was a bit too permissive for someone that holds a steady job... Give her cash and tell her to call you if she "thinks she's in danger"? Nah, she can stay at a local hotel if the objective is to give her distance from her mother.

I'd say that was the brother's, and also the mother's, personality problem. Those two are most likely quite similar personalities: emotionally stable, not thinking too much about anything useless, goal-oriented, efficient, not too sympathetic by nature in their practicality. So, when shit hit the fan in this sort of manner, they didn't really have any tools to deal with it, since nothing like that could ever happen because of their own actions. My theory is the brother just thought Sayu needs a bit of space, but he had no idea how emotionally damaged she was because it would be alien to his own nature. I reckon he really thought she would live for a week or two in a hotel, then come back as good as new once the money was all gone. Because that's likely the extent of his imagination and everything he himself would have needed.

On another note, how miserable is the depiction of the average Japanese man? It is that special to find someone who doesn't demand sexual favors for humanitarian aid of a minor?

Most people don't want to get involved in anything strange looking and simply pretend they didn't see anything. Another big portion would get it sorted out through the officials. A small minority would get personally involved. I reckon that city street might have even been close to some dubious parts of the town, so the portion of those wanting to get personally involved with unwholesome aims would be larger. After that first time, I'd go as far as saying Sayu was specifically looking for suitable types to allow that kind of living.

MFauli

Thu, 06-03-2021, 06:06 AM

I'd say that was the brother's, and also the mother's, personality problem. Those two are most likely quite similar personalities: emotionally stable, not thinking too much about anything useless, goal-oriented, efficient, not too sympathetic by nature in their practicality. So, when shit hit the fan in this sort of manner, they didn't really have any tools to deal with it, since nothing like that could ever happen because of their own actions. My theory is the brother just thought Sayu needs a bit of space, but he had no idea how emotionally damaged she was because it would be alien to his own nature. I reckon he really thought she would live for a week or two in a hotel, then come back as good as new once the money was all gone. Because that's likely the extent of his imagination and everything he himself would have needed.

I'd say it is more an author's problem rather than any of these characters' problems. And you're totally throwing the brother under the bus. He has been reasonably supportive.

Most people don't want to get involved in anything strange looking and simply pretend they didn't see anything. Another big portion would get it sorted out through the officials. A small minority would get personally involved. I reckon that city street might have even been close to some dubious parts of the town, so the portion of those wanting to get personally involved with unwholesome aims would be larger. After that first time, I'd go as far as saying Sayu was specifically looking for suitable types to allow that kind of living.

Let me drop some truth bombs here:

The reason why netflight's primary expectation of people letting a stranger girl stay with them without "benefits" is fault, is because that simply wouldn't ever happen irl. I wrote about this at the beginning of this series: When a stranger girl tells you she's run away from home and doesn't know where to stay, you call the police/other services to help her. Yes, she would hate that and all, but she's a runaway teenager, she doesn't get to pick and choose at this point. More importantly even: YOU are an unrelated adult. So at NO point in this chain of events would you invite a stranger girl into your house, and for several days, too. That's because 1.) it's inappropriate, 2.) you don't know how mentally stable she is, 3.) she might be a crime victim that needs to be investigated, 4.) maybe she's tricking you and will steal or even murder you in your sleep, 5.) and so on.

The scenario of this anime is 100% fictional and unrealistic. It only works because Yoshi is a mix of dumb and helpful to a fault, and literally EVERYYONE he knows is okay with this shit, too. Even if you are like Yoshida, chances are the first person you tell about it irl will be outraged and force you to tell the police or else they will do that.

Which brings us to the "miserable depiction of (Japanese) men":

First of all: If a runaway teenage girl asked me for help, I'd call the police so that things can be taken care of. That's not me being heartless, that's me doing the best for her. As someone who suffers from mental illness (depression) himself, I've been to several psychosomatic hospitals and you will absolutely meet this kind of cute, helpless girl in such institutions. I've been involved with these situations myself and matter of fact is: YOU cannot help them. You can be nice and all, but to make real change, they have to get real help. That's why they're in the hospital to begin with, lol. And someone like Sayu clearly needs professional help. She's got a trauma for sure from watching her friend commit suicide. She has a difficult relationship with her mom. And she's run away and had sex with lots of stranger men. GET HER PROPER HELP.

And secondly, IF for whatever reason I didn't do the above: Yes, I would totally have sex with her, too. Assuming she's of legal age and let's me do it, then I'd be an idiot not to. That doesn't make me "miserable", it makes me reasonable. She needs a place, I offer it to her, she gives me something in return. And while it's hard to judge from anime artstyles, she doesn't look like a child, nah, she's hot, we've seen that much.Is it still morally questionable? Sure. But that's only because at that point I already failed to do the morally right thing which I explained above.

Yoshida chose to do an in-between: Not give her proper help, BUT let her stay with him. Basically, he's a dumbass, because he's neither helping her nor getting something in return. He's just further messing things up.

Kraco

Thu, 06-03-2021, 10:27 AM

I'd say it is more an author's problem rather than any of these characters' problems. And you're totally throwing the brother under the bus. He has been reasonably supportive.

The game is over if you need to start criticising the author instead of the story. This series hasn't gotten that bad, at least not yet, in my opinion. Besides, the brother is a whole lot better person than I thought he was. He just isn't a people person, nor is the mother.

Let me drop some truth bombs here:

The reason why netflight's primary expectation of people letting a stranger girl stay with them without "benefits" is fault, is because that simply wouldn't ever happen irl. I wrote about this at the beginning of this series: When a stranger girl tells you she's run away from home and doesn't know where to stay, you call the police/other services to help her.

You ain't dropping no bombs here. I've written about the same thing, though it might have been at Mangadex in the manga discussion. However, it's just one of those settings you need to accept for there to be a story at all. This is still more believable than a space alien dropping on your lap, mysteriously being exactly like a really cute human girl, only with a tail, some weird powers, and scifi technology. If you can't accept that, you simply can't real great many a manga/watch their animes. This is no different, basically, only no laws of physics, population genetics, and such are broken.

Yes, she would hate that and all, but she's a runaway teenager, she doesn't get to pick and choose at this point. More importantly even: YOU are an unrelated adult. So at NO point in this chain of events would you invite a stranger girl into your house, and for several days, too. That's because 1.) it's inappropriate, 2.) you don't know how mentally stable she is, 3.) she might be a crime victim that needs to be investigated, 4.) maybe she's tricking you and will steal or even murder you in your sleep, 5.) and so on.

Actually a person who has suffered a lot in their own life, like a refugee, a victim of prolonged domestic abuse, etc, could do it. They might have lost their faith in the government and officials at least partially, but could still be a really good human. They would also be more likely to recognise another real victim, not just some scumbag looking for easy robbing targets. An outlier in the society, nonetheless. That being said, not even most of them would do it, but some might. Of course Yoshida is nothing like that.

The scenario of this anime is 100% fictional and unrealistic. It only works because Yoshi is a mix of dumb and helpful to a fault, and literally EVERYYONE he knows is okay with this shit, too. Even if you are like Yoshida, chances are the first person you tell about it irl will be outraged and force you to tell the police or else they will do that.

It's still a million percent more realistic than meeting a group of space aliens that look like super cute human girls, and they all fall in love with you, one after another.

First of all: If a runaway teenage girl asked me for help, I'd call the police so that things can be taken care of. That's not me being heartless, that's me doing the best for her. As someone who suffers from mental illness (depression) himself, I've been to several psychosomatic hospitals and you will absolutely meet this kind of cute, helpless girl in such institutions. I've been involved with these situations myself and matter of fact is: YOU cannot help them. You can be nice and all, but to make real change, they have to get real help. That's why they're in the hospital to begin with, lol. And someone like Sayu clearly needs professional help. She's got a trauma for sure from watching her friend commit suicide. She has a difficult relationship with her mom. And she's run away and had sex with lots of stranger men. GET HER PROPER HELP.

She seems to be doing much better already than in the beginning. I doubt she's going to keep selling herself anymore, and she's starting to think about her own future. The most well known Japanese mental health institution is a high building with an easy to access roof and poor fences around the edges. Sure, it would have solved all of Sayu's problems, just like it solved all of her best friend's problems, but I prefer her getting better by living with Yoshida for a while. He's probably the first decent adult who hasn't been too busy with their own business all the time, has tried to understand and encourage her, yet still being sure to set her limits and demand that she thinks about her own situation and be prepared to face the reality in the near future.

Yoshida chose to do an in-between: Not give her proper help, BUT let her stay with him. Basically, he's a dumbass, because he's neither helping her nor getting something in return. He's just further messing things up.

Results speak for themselves. Even the dense brother noticed Sayu has actually changed for the better in some ways, such as expresing her own will.

MFauli

Thu, 06-03-2021, 01:34 PM

We'll have to agree to disagree on most of this, Kraco, so I won't reply to every single paragraph. But the following I need to address:

It's still a million percent more realistic than meeting a group of space aliens that look like super cute human girls, and they all fall in love with you, one after another.

That's the same shitty argument SJWs (not saying you are one) love to make when people like me desire historical accuracy in video games, as much as that is reasonably possible. These people will then argue "oh, magic and dragons are fine, but gay and black people aren't?! Bigot!!1". What they're ignoring and what you just did is that there is an important difference between obious fantasy that's there as part of the sales pitch, and fantasy that nobody but activists would fantasize about.

For example, when I played Dragon Age Origins back when it released, I found it extremely silly that half of the soldiers during a big battle were women. That was clearly some activist agenda, because I didn't buy Dragon Age Origins for the fantasy-equality between male and female soldiers, I bought it for the dragons and magic fantasy. Some people complained about Kingdom Come: Deliverance not having black characters, even though the game was set in medieval Bohemia where black people (especially non-slaves) simply didn't exist back then and the developer strived to make a sim-like experience that's true to history. For that, activists called him a nazi. Because he refused to induce the kind of fantasy in their game that nobody actually wants from such game. Another example is Final Fantasy 10. I'm currently replaying the game and even 30 hours in, it has not once explained why people can breathe underwater. No explanation, it just is that way and it's extremely silly. Because I didn't start playing FF10 on the premise of "people that can breathe underwater", and since it's not explained, my mind hasn't changed on that matter. However, I have no trouble with all the magic, monsters and summons.

Which brings us back to this anime. I would indeed have less trouble accepting cute alien girls falling in love with some than what happens here, because alien girls falling in love with the protagonist would be the main hook of the show. Meanwhile, I started watching Hige o Soru under the mere premise of "girl seeks place to stay, guy lets her". I never expected that so many adults would be okay with what Yoshida does. And unlike the other underage-relationship anime from this season, this story is presented in a less light-hearted, more serious manner, so it's hard to just accept it.

Maybe some can turn a blind eye to that kinda fantasy easier than I can, but I find it terrible.

Kraco

Thu, 06-03-2021, 03:45 PM

That's the same shitty argument SJWs (not saying you are one) love to make when people like me desire historical accuracy in video games, as much as that is reasonably possible. These people will then argue "oh, magic and dragons are fine, but gay and black people aren't?! Bigot!!1". What they're ignoring and what you just did is that there is an important difference between obious fantasy that's there as part of the sales pitch, and fantasy that nobody but activists would fantasize about.

Which brings us back to this anime. I would indeed have less trouble accepting cute alien girls falling in love with some than what happens here, because alien girls falling in love with the protagonist would be the main hook of the show. Meanwhile, I started watching Hige o Soru under the mere premise of "girl seeks place to stay, guy lets her". I never expected that so many adults would be okay with what Yoshida does. And unlike the other underage-relationship anime from this season, this story is presented in a less light-hearted, more serious manner, so it's hard to just accept it.

Yeah, please don't ever call me an SJW. But no, it's not the same thing with what I was saying. I just used it to illustrate the fact that for this series to exist at all, the author has to throw away that aspect of realism. All of the central characters are smart enough and solid enough looking people, so there's simply no way for them to accept this all realistically. This is a simple fact. So, the author has to scrap that part of realism and the audience simply has to accept it's missing. It's exactly the same as in a harem series a totally ordinary, dull dude having a dozen hot girls love him passionately, despite the dude never doing anything to realistically catch anyone's attention, and in fact he never even seems to realise all those girls love him. All the girls mysteriously just keep hanging around him ad infinitum to catch him, not getting annoyed or giving up.

I guess it is easier to accept a really ridiculous setting than one otherwise realistic but that's just conflicting with realism in a specific aspect. Especially if the characters still act, more or less, as if the aspect still does exist. In this series they all do know Yoshida shouldn't keep living with Sayu, but they still accept it just like that, Yoshida himself included. Well, you could also view this as just one of those "sudden girlfriend appearance" series, which I was earlier jokingly referring to.

neflight86

Fri, 06-04-2021, 08:01 AM

Specifically, I was commenting on that specific unrealism in that at least two women in this show (probably more if you dig for it) have proclaimed that Yoshida's actions (specifically not demanding carnal payment) were abnormal in the context of providing help at all. Maybe its a translation or direction thing, but that seemed framed oddly specifically to that conclusion. Realistically, yes, you call for police help or the like, but that the default action to your or I isn't even a consideration is jarring, as Kraco said, and is simply a disconnect the show required for its story to function. It kind of depicts the average man as more cynical than I think the show meant to imply.

MFauli

Fri, 06-04-2021, 08:17 AM

I really disagree with this "cynical" talk of you two's. That is only true if we accept that sex is something bad/evil.

A stranger girl asks you to stay, she offers sex, it's a deal. And it's without proof to assume that it was always unpleasant sex, Sayu carefully picked and chose the guys, and the 2 we've seen so far were at least average to handsome, so this isn't some "ugly bastard raped her" scenario. It was never rape to begin with.

I feel like you guys are hung up on her being a school girl. Imagine if we were talking about some 25yo woman. Would you still condemn men that'd require sex with her as a way to pay for a stay? I don't think it's morally right to let a grown woman stay at your home for free, most people would find that odd. With Sayu, you have her teenage status, but she's not some helpless, innocent 10yo girl, she's an almost-adult who can legally have consenting sex. The men who chose to have sex with her (that SHE offered) aren't evil for doing so.If anything having sex made Sayu's situation more plausible to them, like "ahh, she's on the street and wants to earn money with sex. Okay, come on in". The alternative would be to let a prostitute stay at your place for ... for what? So she can leave and then have sex with the next guy? Thats where the unrealistic scenario comes into play again: If you were against having sex with her, you WOULD absolutely call the police to help her. Because how do you help a teenage prostitute by staying at your place, when you have to assume she's still going out to get banged for money?

It's sex. Not a crime. So don't judge those men. Sayu chose this.

Kraco

Fri, 06-04-2021, 10:54 AM

To get it out of the way, even though having consenting sex with a person of Sayu's age would be technically legal in Japan, and in fact most countries, it's still a social suicide, especially under those circumstances. That alone is one reason why avoiding sex with her is a big factor. That being said, it still is a big problem in Japan. However, there are also a lot of cases where high school part-time prostitutes have pulled the rug from under their customers. It doesn't help that prostitution is illegal in Japan! If a judge decides that receiving accommodation in exchange for sex equals to receiving money in exchange for sex, you are done for.

If it's an adult woman living with you, unless the woman reports you to the police, it's nobody's business. You can be viewed as a couple. No child/youth protection laws protect adults. However, allowing some stranger to live in your apartment in exchange for sex would seem like a huge security risk in many ways if you ask me.

MFauli

Fri, 06-04-2021, 11:01 AM

However, allowing some stranger to live in your apartment in exchange for sex would seem like a huge security risk in many ways if you ask me.

Which is true for Sayu, too.

Ryllharu

Sun, 06-06-2021, 09:21 AM

The real problem is how painfully generic this series has gotten. I guarantee most won't remember this series within a year, and nobody will remember this within three years unless they own the LNs or something.

It started out as a series with some complicated and dynamic levels of relationships of the three female leads, and the unnamed emotional trauma of the singular female lead.

What it has regrettably devolved into is a generic "woe is me" story due to an internal family 'saving face' crisis. Where a parent saving face was more valuable than the lead's personal emotional stability after a personal crisis. About as generic as you can get in terms of Asian drama.

Her brother being so surprisingly supportive is another sign of the story's overall weakness. Her former scummy coworker just gives up after forcing a conflict that fizzled into nothing. Her brother has always been supportive. She has a cold mother (boo hoo~). The conflict in this story just isn't ever well crafted.

- Sayu is surrounded by supportive people. Asami, Yoshida, her brother.
- Mishima is supportive instead of attempting to pursue anything with
- They started to build up Gotou in a partially villainous role and then she and Sayu meet and she's also generally supportive and not driving a conflict.
- The internal conflict of Yoshida not being sure whether he loves Sayu or wants to keep their relationship wholesome is severely underdeveloped thus far, though maybe Asami just tried to give it some energy at the end of this episode. It's the only thing resembling any kind of conflict with depth.
- Sayu's issues with her mother are not really explained. "I never got along well with my mother." Okay. Show us WHY.

It feels like the only thing that this series has going for it is that they acknowledge that enjou kosai has sex involved. Or that high schoolers have some degree of libido. There's hentai with better stories than this.

I suppose I read too deeply into Gotou's character looking for a conflict that the story never had to begin with. This one is going to end up in the pile with Golden Time for "wasted potential."

neflight86

Mon, 06-07-2021, 07:34 AM

Can't argue there; what seemed like a promising setup for drama has boiled down into a sugary slime of 'you can do it' from the supporting cast who seem to exist to say what a cool guy Yoshida is, and tell Sayu that she shouldn't feel bad. Neither of which are particularly compelling story elements.

Kraco

Mon, 06-07-2021, 09:01 AM

I never had so lofty expectations in the first place. I only started to read the manga because of the setting of an adult dude starting to look after a random girl, with no romance present at least for the time being. I didn't expect a whole lot from the side characters, but I do agree on it being a pity the story kind of stripped everything else from them and made them mere supports for the main characters. On the other hand, I dislike love triangles, let alone polygons, so I can't say I'd be missing that.

MFauli

Tue, 06-08-2021, 05:24 AM

episode 10:

Sayu doesn't need help, she needs therapy. God damn.

Also I couldn't help but read an inner monologue of Yoshida's during the last scene: "Damn, gotta hide my raging boner ...!" ;D

MFauli

Tue, 06-15-2021, 01:04 AM

shinta|hikari

Tue, 06-15-2021, 01:25 AM

episode 11:

The slap was the only good scene.

Dear god, "everyone, pls care about MY emotions, I AM THE CENTER OF THE WORLD!", Sayu has to be one of the most self-centered characters I've seen in a while.

Absolutely agreed. I've been slapped around with slippers on my face and wooden sticks on my legs. I practically bust my gut with the shock they showed when a runaway daughter from a conservative family got hand-slapped in the face LOL.

You are loved, bitch.

neflight86

Wed, 06-16-2021, 12:18 PM

I know we've been ragging on this show for a while for being pretty milquetoast and strangely privileged from drama perspective, but the roof scene takes the cake. "You just cared about her too much" had me giggling out loud.

Is she a runaway, a concept ("You were each other's only friends!"), or the actual center of the universe? Yoshida seems confused. His visible anger toward the mother (who he hasn't even been introduced to) after the slap suggests an unhealthy level of coddling going on here.

MFauli

Wed, 06-16-2021, 12:27 PM

Do we know if the mangaka is married to a much younger woman? Just asking ... lol.

MFauli

Tue, 06-22-2021, 09:46 AM

episode 12:

Ok, Sayu is terribly self-centered, but now we know who she got it from.

Seriously, why did nobody ever call out this shit stain of a mother? The final straw should have been when she said "it'd would have been better if I had never given birth to you!", like, WTF. If I were Yoshida, I would have shout back "you're the worst" at least.

She's absolutely incapable of admitting fault, and even at the end of the episode, she's the one who feels like she's the victim. Man, fuck that woman. Made me seriously angry.

neflight86

Thu, 06-24-2021, 08:02 AM

It appears that both Sayu and her mother are incapable of 'understanding how the other is feeling'... They both simply state their grievances and gnash their respective teeth while the other other doesn't acknowledge what they just heard. The show frames the mother as being fairly unsympathetic, but I'm not fully buying it- single mother raising two kids and one of them keeps 'causing trouble'. Its not a great look to tell someone they should have never been born, but we're all adults here; it should be understood that people explode and say things they don't mean sometimes. Our worst shouldn't define our whole, I believe. While I don't follow the platitudes that Yoshida spewed about who has the right to raise Sau, I did like the level headed handling of the constant disrespect the mother was showing.

As has become common, I have little idea what this show is trying to espouse at this point, but there's dramatic BGM and some character close ups, so I should feel something, right?

It was also funny that the mother double checked- 'you didn't do anything with my daughter, for real'? Does that change anything? If you knew how many partners she already had, would that change this situation? Weird.