Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation

[Munsu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU8VOySxiUg

A 34-year-old virgin NEET who is kicked out of his house when he runs out of money. He's regretting his life when he's suddenly killed in a traffic accident, and he's reborn in another world full of swords and sorcery. As a newborn baby, he resolves to live his life without regrets and make the best of his knowledge from his previous life. While developing his skills in magic, he meets a small girl who is a magic tutor, and a beautiful quarter-elf with green hair.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=22589

Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation should be airing in a few minutes from now. One of my favorite LNs to read, but at the same time frustrating. Some have considered the LN as the "father of isekai" (though obviously not the first of its kind). As I read it, there shouldn't be a lot ecchi, but a lot of perviness since the MC is a perv through and through, though trying to improve himself in this second chance at life. So will be curious to see how they'll handle that aspect, and whether it'll be to the detriment or not for the show.

A lot of what people like from this series is that they get to experience the MC's life from beginning and see how he progresses through life. I'm just hoping for good character interaction and that the action scenes are well animated. At the same time I can say it can be a frustrating series since many times you'll find yourself questioning about the wasted potential... and it can get frustrating (forgive the repetition). But in all, I'm in for the ride if they don't fuck it up.

From the trailer, I think things look great. Have never heard of the animation studio (Studio Bind), but it seems like they can use this series to make a name for themselves since it has a huge following.

As I mentioned in another thread, a bit of a shame that we have Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation, So I'm a Spider, So What?, and That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime airing at the same time. For isekai fanboys (which I'm a bit of) there's a lot of excitement to be had, but for the ones that like them in small doses I think this will be very detrimental and needless comparisons will surely be had.

[shinta|hikari]

I watched the first two episodes a few days ago from a pre-air stream rip. The production values are high AF, and the adaptation team looks like it knows what it's doing. They tone down the perversion without removing it entirely, and keeping the adult narrative voice is a good choice.

[Munsu]

I watched the first two episodes a few days ago from a pre-air stream rip. The production values are high AF, and the adaptation team looks like it knows what it's doing. They tone down the perversion without removing it entirely, and keeping the adult narrative voice is a good choice.

I had heard about some sort of pre-air special, but wasn't aware that they were the actual first 2 episodes. Good to know that the production values were high, from the trailer itself it looked like it was going to be that way. Looks like Studio Bind may be getting more work sent their way then, wonder if they're a split group from another animation studio that wanted to do things on their own.

[Buffalobiian]

Good lord that milf.

[David75]

First ep:

I think I read the manga for that one and stopped somewhere when I lost track of the chapter I was up to.

I have to say that the visual quality of that first ep is very refreshing. Characters have some kind of rough edges, because I think they are 2D animated inside a 3D computer assisted world. I hope they had money and workforce for the whole show...

I laughed my share at the pervy jokes and some others too.

I'm a bit sad I'm spoiled by the manga, even if it was over a year ago, because I can't fully experience discovering everything as it comes.


Note: Japan has to do something about truck-kun...

[Kraco]

An excellent first episode. The graphics felt just a little bit old-school, which brought some nostalgia from years past and the many fantasy series that used to run when I was still watching a lot of anime. So far the production values certainly left nothing to be desired. I hope that will remain true for the whole series.

Rudeus's character has been pulled off quite well, I'd say. I agree with Shinta on that the narrative inner voice is a good detail. It makes Rudeus far more interesting than he would otherwise be. I'd say that's the very strength of an isekai reincarnation setting when pulled off correctly.

I didn't remember Zenith was such a babe. Damn.

[Munsu]

Well, loved the first episode and actually laughed quite a few times... something I very very rarely do with anime. Great animation, and agree, loved that they kept the older inner voice. Hope they don't switch him out as he grows older.

[Buffalobiian]

Hope they don't switch him out as he grows older.

They better not.

It's Kyon narrating.

[MFauli]

Easily my favorite new anime of the season. That was a great episode. Is that Kyon's voice actor?

I love how the artstyle is not overly moe like most isekai anime. You can most easiest see this in the animal design who have rather realistic designs. Also, the hero is finally someone who's doing an isekai reincarnation the right way. MY only worry was when the maid said he might be "afflicted".

It makes me wonder though: He's bonafide reborn from the very start, so it's not like he killed their real child. Even if he revealed his circumstances, shouldn't the parents be accepting? Oh well, having sucked the "mom"'s boobs might complicate a reveal, though, lol.

It's too early to judge this, but potential is super high.

Edit: ah, so it is Kyon. yay

[Munsu]

The question is, what happened to the other two teens that are missing...?

[shinta|hikari]

The ones in the truck-kun meet and greet?

I just thought they ran off.

[Munsu]

The ones in the truck-kun meet and greet?

I just thought they ran off.

Or they were magicked away...

[shinta|hikari]

But the MC's body seem to have remained. He was shown on the ground after Truck-kun shook his hands.

[Munsu]

But the MC's body seem to have remained. He was shown on the ground after Truck-kun shook his hands.

Well, they said they were also supposedly hit by the truck, so they may have been thrown off somewhere.

So:

a) They're alive (hurt or well)

b) Dead... maybe reincarnated as well?

c) We'll never know and the doubt will hunt us forever and ever and ever till the end of times.

[Kraco]

You don't fly a hundred meters by getting hit by a truck within city limits. If the other people had been hit, they would have been there, dead or alive, just like the MC. Since they were nowhere to be found, it's quite safe to assume they most likely didn't even get wounded. Like perfect, upright citizens they must have immediately fled the scene to avoid any and all trouble with the officials.

[MFauli]

You don't fly a hundred meters by getting hit by a truck within city limits.

Oh, look, we've got an expert here!!1


jk :P

[Munsu]

You don't fly a hundred meters by getting hit by a truck within city limits. If the other people had been hit, they would have been there, dead or alive, just like the MC. Since they were nowhere to be found, it's quite safe to assume they most likely didn't even get wounded. Like perfect, upright citizens they must have immediately fled the scene to avoid any and all trouble with the officials.

Maybe some wild beasts got drawn to the carnage and dragged them away or someone with some sort of ulterior motive. You never know.

[DarthEnderX]

Wow. High production value on this?


Some have considered the LN as the "father of isekai" (though obviously not the first of its kind).Does that mean this in an early example, and thus, I should forgive its use of all these cliché isekai tropes?

[Kraco]

Does that mean this in an early example, and thus, I should forgive its use of all these cliché isekai tropes?

Forget watching/reading isekai if you don't like to see cliches and tropes used over and over again. I'm not sure if any other genre has as high a cliche content presented so proudly.

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, but if it was doing those things BEFORE they became cliche, than I don't have to hold it against it.

At least, so far, this just seems like a fantasy world, and not a straight up video game world. So it's got that going in it's favor.

[shinta|hikari]

Mushoku Tensei existed before most of the "current" wave of Isekai stories and consequently tropes. There were a lot of isekais before it, but those belong to an older generation and had a relatively different set of tropes (i.e. Fushigi Yuugi, El Hazard, 12 Kingdoms, etc.)

The story also has a full conclusion, so it won't suffer too much from random asspulls since the author has had the chance to fix the story from the WN to LN transition. I've only read the first few chapters but hear about this a lot in the LN community.

[Munsu]

Mushoku Tensei existed before most of the "current" wave of Isekai stories and consequently tropes. There were a lot of isekais before it, but those belong to an older generation and had a relatively different set of tropes (i.e. Fushigi Yuugi, El Hazard, 12 Kingdoms, etc.)

The story also has a full conclusion, so it won't suffer too much from random asspulls since the author has had the chance to fix the story from the WN to LN transition. I've only read the first few chapters but hear about this a lot in the LN community.

Yeah, this.

[DarthEnderX]

Neat! Looking forward to it then.

[neflight86]

Grand production and I enjoyed the humor more than I remembered from the manga adaptation. It's not terribly unique, but the attention to detail and execution put it a cut above your average isekai, for sure.

[KrayZ33]

I just hope this gets 5 season with the same amount of quality and we see him grow up.
It's just fun looking at images and character movement that are actually animated well and beautifully

This show should be MFauli's dream, considering that they actually show sex between adults happening.

[Munsu]

Grand production and I enjoyed the humor more than I remembered from the manga adaptation. It's not terribly unique, but the attention to detail and execution put it a cut above your average isekai, for sure.

As I was reading the LN, since I'm not a fan of any fanservice, I found it annoying, but seeing animated it actually made me laugh which is a challenge (I'm usually not a fan of the type of comedy found in anime).

[MFauli]

As I was reading the LN, since I'm not a fan of any fanservice, I found it annoying, but seeing animated it actually made me laugh which is a challenge (I'm usually not a fan of the type of comedy found in anime).

LOL, stop making it sound like I care about ecchi scenes :D I just get upset by the "gay hero" trope, so it's always nice to see some male hero react more realistic.

[DarthEnderX]

I just get upset by the "gay hero" tropeThe trope is "Celibate Hero".

[MFauli]

The trope is "Celibate Hero".

But that'd imply that the hero is tempted but refuses to act upon his urges. Whereas the heroes in most of these anime simply show now sign of temptation. At most some light blushing. It's frustrating ;/ Goddamn you, Ichika ...

[DarthEnderX]

But that'd imply that the hero is tempted but refuses to act upon his urges. Whereas the heroes in most of these anime simply show now sign of temptation.That's what it is (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CelibateHero).

[Buffalobiian]

That's what it is (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CelibateHero).

MFauli most closely describes Chaste Hero, which is in the second sentence of that linked article.

(EDIT: hmm.. actually... yeah that doesn't quite fit either. Guess not everything is a neat trope)

Great use of a Sasuke picture in that article btw. Ino was the most bangable character from early Naruto. The only contender.. Kurenai? Sasuke's mum came in rather late, as did Tsunade.

[DarthEnderX]

Great use of a Sasuke picture in that article btw. Ino was the most bangable character from early Naruto. The only contender.. Kurenai? Sasuke's mum came in rather late, as did Tsunade.You spell Temari a bunch of weird ways.

[Buffalobiian]

You spell Temari a bunch of weird ways.

My bad, didn't realise we were talking about Boruto. Temari's a late bloomer.

[DarthEnderX]

Her outfit sucks in Boruto.

[Buffalobiian]

But she's hottest there.

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 02

------------------------------





Hahaha, fuck me dead. Those sex jokes being thrown in without being the absolute focus of the show is great. Keep going with that.

It's weird heaving Kyon's voice with that bullied past. His old face didn't fit the voice at all.

[Kraco]

I didn't remember the MC's past was so gruesome. He had given up on life for all intents and purposes, save for ending himself, which does explain some of his behavior, like the degree of shamelessness. A layer of humanity was already removed from him. He's healing pretty well, though, no doubt largely thanks to Roxy. He really loved her.


Hahaha, fuck me dead. Those sex jokes being thrown in without being the absolute focus of the show is great. Keep going with that.


Somehow they make this feel more genuine.

[Ryllharu]

The setting and worldbuilding in terms of backstory, depth, and society gives me major Scrapped Princess vibes crossed with Maoyuu Maou Yuusha. Scrapped Princess' vibrant detail with Maoyuu Maou Yuusha's "realism" of a fantasy setting.

[MFauli]

Somehow they make this feel more genuine.

Exactly!
This is the effect I always tell those people who want to censor jrpgs about. Yes, too much sexual stuff is dumb, but none is bad, too. A world where sex just happens on the side is just the most realistic, believeable one.

As for the episode, I had wished that he told Roxy something like 'once I'm 15, I'm gonna search for you and make you my bride!'.

Also, I was hoping we'd get such timeskip sooner, but it looks like he'll stay a kid for longer, oh well.

Edit: Out of curiosity I took a look at a certain forum and of course: Social justice assholes are condemning the anime and hate it. Guess empathizing with an ugly dude was too much to expect from 'progressive' people. Sigh.

[DarthEnderX]

Well that got pervy all of a sudden!

But yeah it was nice to see that he looked like an actual NEET in his old life. Instead of just a harem protagonist in a track suit.

[Ryllharu]

Edit: Out of curiosity I took a look at a certain forum and of course: Social justice assholes are condemning the anime and hate it. Guess empathizing with an ugly dude was too much to expect from 'progressive' people. Sigh.
He had a 20-year pure hikkimori phase after quitting high school. Self-admittedly never leaving the room for anything. "Pounded on the wall for food."

It's also not really easy to sympathize with him over what he was doing during the funeral.

I think he made up for it by trying to save the teens from Truck-kun and getting hit himself. Due to the flashbacks, that no doubt took superhuman courage.

If he had continued to creep on Roxy rather than backing away and shutting the door, I think it would be somewhat difficult for me to get past it and not look at him poorly for quite a while.

[MFauli]

He had a 20-year pure hikkimori phase after quitting high school. Self-admittedly never leaving the room for anything. "Pounded on the wall for food."

It's also not really easy to sympathize with him over what he was doing during the funeral.

I think he made up for it by trying to save the teens from Truck-kun and getting hit himself. Due to the flashbacks, that no doubt took superhuman courage.

If he had continued to creep on Roxy rather than backing away and shutting the door, I think it would be somewhat difficult for me to get past it and not look at him poorly for quite a while.

1.) Again, what did he so bad? Not appear at the funeral? He's deathly scared of going outside. Fapping to some hentai anime? So? "It's hard to sympathize with him", counter question: What makes it so easy to hate him? That he's ugly and has a messy room? Seriously?

2.) A guy being attracted by a hot young (bot not too young) girl would have made you think lesser of him?! wtf. This is Waki-Ryllharu, right? Even if you took that as a negative, it's balance by Roxy being a pervert herself, masturbating in front of the employers' bedroom.

People hating this guy just show how un-progressive they really are. For them, empathy is for attractive, cute people, not for ugly guys who get abused by society without anyone caring. And yes, I'm projecting myself here.

[Munsu]

Part of the theme of the series you'll see is the struggle between sympathizing with a character that may be doing his best now, not always achieving it, while finding that he's in many ways very flawed and sick individual. Many of those aspects have been toned down so far, and in fact the dark humor is working much better animated than in other mediums.

Even as the story from WN to LN, etc. has transformed the character a bit... he really was (and maybe is) a shit person. At the same time, he's a person cable of good, so how do you reconcile those aspects will be part of the struggle and interest. His past self vs current self, and how much of his past self which he may want to leave behind creeps back in despite how much he wants to improve himself... career wise and decency wise (to a point).

It's always been a controversial series in part because our MC is not a goody two-shoes, so looking forward how the rest will be handled. So far, so good. And the dude on Animesuki is just focusing on some stupid scene about Roxy about how "it's not normal" that she masturbated there... 2-3 pages of discussing a thing that's not worth discussing. I mean, who the fuck cares if it's a normal thing, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Whatever, not going to waste giving it more thought than needed. Let the chick act on her sexual frustrations.

[MFauli]

But what makes him a "shit person"?

[Munsu]

But what makes him a "shit person"?

We'll see what direction they go with the anime, we haven't see much indication of it yet... other than being a perv, which isn't much to go on.

[Buffalobiian]

Well the part with porn is easy.

He's pumping to porn while his parents' wake is happening. The fact that he won't step outside is one thing, the fact that he doesn't mourn for them and indulges in pleasure is another. This assumes that he knew they died. Realistically speaking, he should have known. No one's going to keep him out of the loop when your housemates/parents die.

[Ryllharu]

It's worth noting that Japan is internationally notorious for having incredibly bad, or essentially non-existent, mental health care for a G-7 nation. Their government has gotten so embarrassed about it that they're finally working to fix it.

There's a reason I said it reminded me of Scrapped Princess and Maouyuu. Those are both full of flawed people.

[shinta|hikari]

False.

The reason mental healthcare isn't a focus in Japan is because practically no Japanese person gets mentally ill.
/s

[Ryllharu]

Just like every criminal is so ridden with guilt they willingly confess their crimes and their prosecutors have a 99.9% conviction rate.

[KrayZ33]

*me after watching episode 2*


"This is great."




every single aspect and scene, even the ecchi stuff had meaning.

Anime of the year of all years - so far - and if it keeps up like this it's truely going to be.

[MFauli]

Well the part with porn is easy.

He's pumping to porn while his parents' wake is happening. The fact that he won't step outside is one thing, the fact that he doesn't mourn for them and indulges in pleasure is another. This assumes that he knew they died. Realistically speaking, he should have known. No one's going to keep him out of the loop when your housemates/parents die.

Why does that make him a bad person? You realize that not all pareny-child relationships are good ones? That a lot of children rightfully hate their parents?

I still don't see what makes him a 'shit person', other than shallowy judging his appearance.

[DarthEnderX]

1.) Again, what did he so bad? Not appear at the funeral? He's deathly scared of going outside. Fapping to some hentai anime? So? "It's hard to sympathize with him", counter question: What makes it so easy to hate him? That he's ugly and has a messy room? Seriously?From the context, it seemed like he literally skipped his parent's funeral so he could stay home and jerk off.


Even if you took that as a negative, it's balance by Roxy being a pervert herself, masturbating in front of the employers' bedroom.I will give you that one. If he's a creep for spying on her, she's also a creep for spying on them.


Why does that make him a bad person? You realize that not all pareny-child relationships are good ones? That a lot of children rightfully hate their parents?Which is fine if the parents are shitty. But they already showed us that they weren't(telling him to "Do his best!" and getting nothing but an angry wall pounding in response). Which means if their relationship is shitty, it's because he's shitty.


And yes, I'm projecting myself here.Whuuuuuaaaat?! I never would have guessed!

I look like that guy too. But I don't take that as an excuse to act like a dirtbag.

"Well, I look like a scumbag. So I should just be able to act like a scumbag and people shouldn't judge me for it!"

[MFauli]

From the context, it seemed like he literally skipped his parent's funeral so he could stay home and jerk off.

I will give you that one. If he's a creep for spying on her, she's also a creep for spying on them.

Which is fine if the parents are shitty. But they already showed us that they weren't(telling him to "Do his best!" and getting nothing but an angry wall pounding in response). Which means if their relationship is shitty, it's because he's shitty.

Whuuuuuaaaat?! I never would have guessed!

I look like that guy too. But I don't take that as an excuse to act like a dirtbag.

"Well, I look like a scumbag. So I should just be able to act like a scumbag and people shouldn't judge me for it!"

The parents saying 'ganbatte' doesnt tell us anything. Maybe (likely) his parents were completely negligent of his hardships at school or actively ignored it, and just kept up a happy facade because it was the least conspicuous choice for them.

And if he had such a distant, broken relationship with them, why would he go the funeral?

I still don't see what makes him a shit person or a scumbag. He's a loser, but not (entirely?) by his own fault. Even when he saw Roxy masturbating, it happened by accident. The other time he tried to spy on her room, she noticed and told him she's gonna hit him next time and it was a fun scene.

You see, I realize that quite some people call him a shit person. But I have the strong assumption that it's mostly because he's ugly. Seeing such shallow hate come from self-proclaime 'progressive' communities is really frustrating and unjust.

[KrayZ33]

Why does that make him a bad person? You realize that not all pareny-child relationships are good ones? That a lot of children rightfully hate their parents?

I still don't see what makes him a 'shit person', other than shallowy judging his appearance.

He's obviously not a complete dogshit character (he rescued high school kids from death apparently). But not attending his parents funeral and watching porn instead does make him a shitty person in that moment.

Which is the only thing we can take from that.

[DarthEnderX]

What Kray said. It's the funeral thing. Everything else was incidental. But that act paints a pretty vile picture.


The parents saying 'ganbatte' doesnt tell us anything. Maybe (likely) his parents were completely negligent of his hardships at school or actively ignored it, and just kept up a happy facade because it was the least conspicuous choice for them.And also, maybe they were actually Gundams!

Or maybe his parents were exactly the way they were presented, and as usual you're just looking for reasons to justify characters being shitty.


Seeing such shallow hate come from self-proclaime 'progressive' communities is really frustrating and unjust.I mean, at this point, you know what the issue is. You've admitted it.

You see yourself in these characters, so anytime they point out when they're being shitty, you feel like you have to excuse and justify it, because otherwise, you'd have to admit to yourself that you might actually be shitty.

And it's always just the "SJW progressives whining again!" And it never occurs to you that maybe the behavior is actually wrong. Because that would make you wrong.

[shinta|hikari]

When your parents reaction to you being stripped naked and shamed by a group of people is "gambatte", it's the parents' fault.

[DarthEnderX]

When your parents reaction to you being stripped naked and shamed by a group of people is "gambatte", it's the parents' fault.I got the impression that the "gambatte" scene happened much later than the school bullying. Like he'd been a shutin for years at that point.

He was 34 when he died, so that shit happened, like 15-20 years ago at that point.

[MFauli]

I got the impression that the "gambatte" scene happened much later than the school bullying. Like he'd been a shutin for years at that point.

He was 34 when he died, so that shit happened, like 15-20 years ago at that point.

And his parents gave a shit about what happened to him.

Sorry, but calling him a shit person just based on him not attending a funeral only shows how sheltered you grew up. Again, pareny-child relationships aren't always good, they're often really shitty even. If my relationship to my dad got any worse than it is, I might do the same, just fyi. Doesnt make me a ahit person. Just tells you that my dad would have been a shit dad.

[KrayZ33]

I don't understand why we don't take the scenes for how they are portrayed.

We don't know what the parents did.
We know that the parents tried something (the scene when they tried to talk with him), we know that they fed him and bought him games and toys and all he needed. We know that he didn't want to talk about it.
They went along with it for ~15+ years.
When his younger brother(?) came to his room after the funeral, it was actually *MC* who attacked first, obviouly he himself knew what was going on and why they are here, but honestly? The fact that he attacked first in conjunction with the scene where he bumped the wall with his fist real hard made me think that this is how he acted around when his parents tried to do something too. You know, as if he'd funnel his anger towards the wrong person in a heartbeat if he could make himself feel less bad in this situation.

He watched porn instead of having the decency to go to the funeral of his father who took care of him for 34 years.
Even if they failed to handle this situation correctly, we can't say anything about them being "bad" parents, only the opposite.

Ifs and buts go both ways. What IF they actually did something. What IF they were actually nice. What IF they actually went to the police but they didn't do anything. What IF they contacted the school but they didn't do anything. What IF they tried to talk him into going to a different school but his anxiety kept him from going out.

We saw him being a shitty person. That's just it. And we are actually supposed to believe that - which is why we actually believe it.
The more subtle things start to tell us that he actually *isn't* or that he has redeeming qualities.
The more subtle things also show us that he himself knows that he did things wrong in his previous life and that there are regrets.
And at the same time, that doesn't turn the parents into the bad guys. Rofl.

[MFauli]

I don't understand why we don't take the scenes for how they are portrayed.

We don't know what the parents did.
We know that the parents tried something (the scene when they tried to talk with him), we know that they fed him and bought him games and toys and all he needed. We know that he didn't want to talk about it.
They went along with it for ~15+ years.
When his younger brother(?) came to his room after the funeral, it was actually *MC* who attacked first, obviouly he himself knew what was going on and why they are here, but honestly? The fact that he attacked first in conjunction with the scene where he bumped the wall with his fist real hard made me think that this is how he acted around when his parents tried to do something too. You know, as if he'd funnel his anger towards the wrong person in a heartbeat if he could make himself feel less bad in this situation.

He watched porn instead of having the decency to go to the funeral of his father who took care of him for 34 years.
Even if they failed to handle this situation correctly, we can't say anything about them being "bad" parents, only the opposite.

Ifs and buts go both ways. What IF they actually did something. What IF they were actually nice. What IF they actually went to the police but they didn't do anything. What IF they contacted the school but they didn't do anything. What IF they tried to talk him into going to a different school but his anxiety kept him from going out.

We saw him being a shitty person. That's just it. And we are actually supposed to believe that - which is why we actually believe it.
The more subtle things start to tell us that he actually *isn't* or that he has redeeming qualities.
The more subtle things also show us that he himself knows that he did things wrong in his previous life and that there are regrets.
And at the same time, that doesn't turn the parents into the bad guys. Rofl.

When my parents 'tried something/talk to me', it'd amount to ignoring what truly worries me, making fun of my ideas, and demanding things that'd only further my misery. The only reason why they gave me shelter and food was because 'what would the neighbors think ...!'.

You're interpreting things in the most convenient way for everyone BUT him. Reminder that I never said he was a good person, just that there's nothing showing him as a shit person, either.

[KrayZ33]

You're interpreting things in the most convenient way for everyone BUT him. Reminder that I never said he was a good person, just that there's nothing showing him as a shit person, either.

Uhm... but there is.
And I'm not interpreting much at all. I'm pointing out the scenes.
There is reason as to why the animator went out of his way to animate him smashing his fist against the wall to shut up his parents.
He could've shown us the same scene with him just ignoring his parents pleading for reason. You do realize that the impact of the scene is completely different, right?

edit: The same could be said about the funeral scene.
He wasn't "disconnected" or apathetic, he was enjoying himself watching porn while his whole family had a rough time and he doesn't care. Yet at same time, he lives in the house of his parents as a 34 year old but never did *anything* in his adult live to make up for it. He's certainly not paying them any money? Or helping them do stuff?

If that isn't shitty behaviour, what is? If his parents are so "bad" why doesn't he go somewhere else? He's an adult.

The "Ifs and buts" part is about you guys assuming stuff that wasn't shown and me saying that we might as well assume stuff in favor and not just stuff against a certain viewpoint.

[Ryllharu]

As Munsu pointed out a while ago at this point, the contrast is the part that matters. The effects of his past on Earth linger into his new present, and make it interesting. You don't really see in his first five years that he never left the half-walls of their house until Roxy and Zenith discuss it. You don't really grasp that he's never had a friend his own age, that he's never even talked to any of the other kids in the village, or even many of the other adults outside his immediate household.

His parents and the maid definitely noticed.

But he was clearly shown as a shitty person before he had his first big shift in the past when saving the teens.

He has no need to save them, he shouldn't care given he was thrown out of his little sanctuary moments before. He's furious. They're also high school students, who he perpetually fears and despises at the same moment from being bullied in the past. But he does call out to them after a few moments of hesitation. He does cross the street and get them out of immediate danger by whatever means.
And yeah, they're not even grateful. Two of them ran off. Or maybe they're terrified and consoling each other that they were having an argument, and an overweight guy saved them at the cost of his own life. Maybe we'll never know.

Storytelling basics. Everything we've seen of his prior to that moment isn't great (not appearances, in actions). Some of it is reprehensible. Maybe some of it even repulsive. But we see his character development his first selfless act in decades. Show a before, so the moment of change and the after parts matter more.

We can accept that he was a shitty person. But he's changing now, and the lingering after effects are poisoning his present, and he's slowly overcoming them across years. A nice shift in pace from "I'm the hero now and my entire previous life can be turned around in an instant!" Seriously this time, though I do love that KonoSuba handles it with them all being shitty people still (except Darkness).

[DarthEnderX]

The more subtle things also show us that he himself knows that he did things wrong in his previous life and that there are regrets.That's where the argument falls apart to Mfauli though. Because he is that guy and still doesn't realize he's doing things wrong.

He watches this and goes "Man, this guy is just like me, he's got it aaall figured out!" and then he goes online and is like "Wait, everyone is calling him a scumbag. Dumb SJWs!!"


You're interpreting things in the most convenient way for everyone BUT him.No, we're interpreting things the way they were shown. Might more have been going on? Yes. But they haven't shown that.

Meanwhile, you're assuming a bunch of hypothetical things that could have happened, but weren't shown, and then going "Yeah, that's probably what was really going on" while forming your headcanon of this character based on a bunch of shit you made up.

[MFauli]

.
He wasn't "disconnected" or apathetic, he was enjoying himself watching porn while his whole family had a rough time and he doesn't care.

You keep emphasizing that they're family. I keep telling you that the word 'family' has zero value depending on an individual person with individual experiences. Some children even kill their parents and it's ok depending on context. Stop using 'but family!' as an end-all.


Yet at same time, he lives in the house of his parents as a 34 year old but never did *anything* in his adult live to make up for it. He's certainly not paying them any money? Or helping them do stuff?

That's me. I offered to pay, but my parents didn't want to sign the papers from social welfare; so they got no money, but complained about me not paying anyway. I keep offering to help with various things; they keep refusing my help or when I do, they insult me for how I do it. Why do they not throw me out? Because 'what would the neighbors think?!'. Why am I still living here? Because I suffer from two-fold depression and any alternative would be even worse. "He is an adult" - that's age, nothing more.

DarthEnder tries to ridicule me, but all I'm trying to say is that nothing what we've seen so far makes him a 'shit person'. Yes, there are many 'what if's. But how about not assuming the worst, especially when he DIED because he wanted to save others?


PS: Just for the record: I am not thinking about murdering my parents, and I would go to their funeral, if I'd be able to. When I think about them being dead I start crying, I love them, but there's things that just aren't ok and that, in turn, don't make me a shit person. That's why I strongly empathize with that guy. And I'm 100% sure that a lot of the people hating him (maybe not you guys) do so because of how gross he looked before his reincarnation.

[DarthEnderX]

DarthEnder tries to ridicule meMainly because of the way you're constantly trying to defend characters that don't respect women(or other people in general). Always trying to defend voyeurism and other harassing behavior as being "natural", and not something that should be looked down on.

And it sucks you have a sob story about your life, but my life isn't much different, and I don't have a shit attitude towards women, or my parents. That shit is on you, and your sucky life doesn't excuse that behavior.


When I think about them being dead I start crying, I love them, but there's things that just aren't ok and that, in turn, don't make me a shit person.And if they'd shown this guy missed the funeral because he was too grief stricken to go, I'd have a lot more sympathy for him.

[MFauli]

Mainly because of the way you're constantly trying to defend characters that don't respect women(or other people in general). Always trying to defend voyeurism and other harassing behavior as being "natural", and not something that should be looked down on.

And it sucks you have a sob story about your life, but my life isn't much different, and I don't have a shit attitude towards women, or my parents. That shit is on you, and your sucky life doesn't excuse that behavior.

And if they'd shown this guy missed the funeral because he was too grief stricken to go, I'd have a lot more sympathy for him.

I guess this is your MAL account:

https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1885770&show=240#msg61731886

[KrayZ33]

You keep emphasizing that they're family. I keep telling you that the word 'family' has zero value depending on an individual person with individual experiences. Some children even kill their parents and it's ok depending on context. Stop using 'but family!' as an end-all.



And I'm saying you are using your personal issues to create a head-canon for this character instead of looking at what has been shown.

MC has issues. He did things wrong, he did things he regrets himself, he did things because he was bullied, he did things because his mental health forced him to do these things.
That doesn't make the things he did any less "shitty". It just means something happened to him that made him do shitty stuff. To some degree, he is a victim, to some degree, he abuses his state as a victim as an excuse.
"They don't know how I feel 8[ (but I won't talk to them, because if I do, I'd actually have to face reality)" etc. etc.


That's me. I offered to pay, but my parents didn't want to sign the papers from social welfare; so they got no money, but complained about me not paying anyway. I keep offering to help with various things; they keep refusing my help or when I do, they insult me for how I do it. Why do they not throw me out? Because 'what would the neighbors think?!'. Why am I still living here? Because I suffer from two-fold depression and any alternative would be even worse. "He is an adult" - that's age, nothing more.

This is probably what MC thinks too, but it's wrong.

It's sad that you think this way and believe it would be even worse, because in your case, it's a real life issue we are talking about, but in this story/anime, this is great for us because MC does have actual issues that are realistic (as we can see when we take you as an example). He is in fact not perfect - he actually *has* to redeem himself for us to like him.
And it's happening in a really subtle manner so far, which makes it even more fun.

You should stay away from MAL btw. because just by looking at that thread page I can tell that most of these guys are idiots that like to piss and shit on things they don't like for no real reason.
I can immediatly tell that the guy you quoted wants to self insert and is angry that (even though it would've been a perfect fit for him most likely) MC is not portrayed as the typical nice guy. Maybe he even hates himself even more now because that "ugly dude" gets to redo his life and he can't.

edit: oh gosh... the people on that forum. Geez. I'm getting flashbacks to my younger self when I was 14 or so.

[Kraco]

If you look at it from the other way around, which I already hinted at in my earlier post, the MC's generally speaking shitty original life is used to explain why he is how he is now. If he had been a more successful personal originally, yet was still leering at the maid, trying to peek at Roxy's panties (and steal them), etc, viewers would judge his current character more than the past one. Now you can say he's shameless because he was like that before reincarnation, so he can't help it, but surely he will heal and get better. If his past had been decent, he would simply be a cheap lecher now for no particular reason, and thus more detestable.

[MFauli]

Just wanted to apologize for my strong reaction in earlier posts. I stand by my opinion that he's not necessarily a 'shit person' (he might turn out to be), but I shouldn't get so worked up over it. Sorry.

[neflight86]

I always saw Rudy as more pitiable than empathetic- so disconnected (by choice) from reality that some basic human decency has left him. He recognizes this, and it is why he is able to avoid the adage "youth is wasted on the young" in his reincarnation. If his previous life were fulfilling and he had no regrets, there would be no drive to succeed 'this time', which is the main crux of the story.

But yes, he's still quite the little perv. You can take the otaku out of Japan...

[Kraco]

Episode 3


- - - - -



Rudy hasn't yet noticed that since it's an isekai, not Japan, getting wet in a summer rain doesn't automatically mean one catches a cold.

Pretty much a character introduction episode, but it was jolly good from the beginning till the end. It seems to be hard for Paul to have a kid who's smarter than he is, by far, already at the single digit age. Paul is only smarter with women.

[Ryllharu]

What I appreciate about this series is they do a good job at reiterating that everyone has their imperfections. Rudy and Paul's fight seems like some holier-than-thou hyperintelligent kid talking down to his Dad...but that is what precocious children always do. But the encounter makes Paul think more carefully about being a father, and not just his vision of what a father should act like. Rudy responds to it later, when Paul's improved approach helps both discipline Rudy for what he did to Sylphie, and help him apologize to her.

In Rudy's case, he gets better at dealing with people, or at least is reminded how to properly deal with people.

It's getting harder to blame Rudy's pervy behavior when Paul is a complete horndog though.

Should I assume the bully had one of his friends give him a black eye, or do the later lines about the summer imply that his mother is finding excuses to talk to Paul? The later ones seem a bit more like Rudy and Slyphie's doing, but the first one is quite suspicious...

[MFauli]

So let's have the key discussion here that's at the heart of this episode:

If Rudy enters a flirts or even enters a relationship with a girl his physical age - ok or not ok?

First though is ofc: Rudy's mentally a 40something yo guy, so obviously it wouldn't be ok. But then you need to think about the situation: Rudy was reincarnated into this position without his choosing. What can he do ? Tell everyone that he's actually 40something? At best nobody believes him and thinks he's a weirdo. At worst he's killed, right after his parents forsakened him in disgust. If he somehow chose to become a kid, if he could repeatedly do that, then I'd say it wouldn't be ok. But as is? That's his life now, he was given that chance by some otherworldly entity, so it's not his fault. And ultimately, what's gonna happen? He's not a rapist. At worst he's gonna do something overtly perverted and get scolded for it. And once it comes to sex, he's probably a safer choice for any girl than other boys who know nothing about protection and properly caressing a girl instead of just looking out for their own pleasure.

All things considered: As long as he doesn't start sexual stuff at his current age, I find nothing wrong with fully embracing his new existence. And once he and the girls in that world are officially adults, then whatever. Then it''s at best age-shaming. "Oh no, a 40yo guy with a 16yo girl?!!! - except it's legal, so stfu.

@Ryll: I dunno. When Rudy out-argued his father, it felt ... bad. Like, his dad felt that something was off. Even if Rudy was in the right, it looked to me as if his dad noticed how that kind of situation shouldn't play out like that. We later saw them behave like father-son again, yeah, but I'm not sure if that scene has a negative long-term effect that's still hidden for now.

[Ryllharu]

I agreed with you while watching it, but then I remembered that 2-5 year olds try these kind of logic-bomb attacks on their parents IRL all the time. They just usually fail spectacularly because they're toddlers.

It does feel weird. Paul, Zenith, and maid in-universe all know he comes off weird.

But I'm willing to give it a pass because Rudy was in the right, Paul wasn't going to listen to him at first and hear his side. The threat to pretend to be a POS and then leave the family forever felt wrong because that's what teens say. So the situation was normal, the outcome was a little off because 37-year old inner self knows how to logic-bomb proper, and the ending of the encounter was 100% off.

But little kids Rudy's age do try to outmaneuver their parents and challenge them like that.

[MFauli]

Yeah. But ... I don't know. What made it feel off for me was that at some point during the scene, it felt as if Rudy "broke" his dad, in a very bad way. Like, as if Rudy had actually done something bad, but found an argument that "sounds" logical and leaves the other person without counter-argument, despite knowing that Rudy's wrong. Which is weird, because indeed Rudy was fully in the right here. Still ... it came off to me as if he mindbroke his dad. If I had to make another comparison: It felt like when in some h-doujin the son overpowers his dad and bangs his mom with his dad knowing about it, but accepting it. Just feels bad ...

[Ryllharu]

I think that's exactly what keeps it on the good side of the line.

Inner Rudy states near the end that he has tons of experience "weaseling out of unwinnable arguments" by being shitty like that, but tosses on, "and I'm completely in the right this time."

So he's used this technique for horrible things in the past, presumably mostly staying in his room and never leaving or doing anything of 'value.' But this time he's actually defending himself for doing something good, protecting Sylphie. It's another case of we get a glimpse of how he used to be, how it affects him in this world, and how he's improving for the better in the long run (he shut down a parent for generally unselfish reasons).

Paul turns it back on him later with the proper lesson when Paul tells himself he won't get angry and will listen first, and they fix their relationship because Paul doesn't know everything about being a father, and Rudy obviously has gaps in relating and dealing with people.

So it's forgivable.

If you look at it from a 300 meter level, it makes the whole episode rather touching.

[Munsu]

Nothing to do with the newest episode, just read the latest translated LN which just came out... so I'll just say "Wow, LOL" without comments. If the anime reaches that point, I'll reference back to this post.

Anyways, will watch the newest episode in a few.

[DarthEnderX]

"Oh man, this guy is so hot! I wanna fuck him so bad!"

"A G-G-G-GIRL?!"

What a dumbass...


If Rudy enters a flirts or even enters a relationship with a girl his physical age - ok or not ok?*sign* You know what? I don't have the energy to eat that can of worms...


I agreed with you while watching it, but then I remembered that 2-5 year olds try these kind of logic-bomb attacks on their parents IRL all the time. They just usually fail spectacularly because they're toddlers.I was with him up until "I have 20+ years experience with unwinnable arguments."

Which just makes me picture him being an internet troll with his list of logical fallacies open in another tab...


Nothing to do with the newest episode, just read the latest translated LN which just came out... so I'll just say "Wow, LOL" without comments. If the anime reaches that point, I'll reference back to this post.Take it to the manga forum, scrub!

[MFauli]

*sign* You know what? I don't have the energy to eat that can of worms...


Can is open, don't let it spoil now!

I know it's a tough thinking exercise for someone like you, but ols, give it a try.

[Kraco]

Yeah. But ... I don't know. What made it feel off for me was that at some point during the scene, it felt as if Rudy "broke" his dad, in a very bad way. Like, as if Rudy had actually done something bad, but found an argument that "sounds" logical and leaves the other person without counter-argument, despite knowing that Rudy's wrong. Which is weird, because indeed Rudy was fully in the right here. Still ... it came off to me as if he mindbroke his dad.

Paul isn't that weak. He might not be the best dad in the universe, this is also his first time and apparently he ran away from home permanently, but he still loves his family. In the end, the little eerie feeling in their interactions is a very good detail in a memory retaining reincarnation isekai. In plenty of isekai all you get is a "Our son is a genius!" line and that's all. That line is also present here, but scenes like in this episode make it better. It's pretty funny that Paul himself being so horny actually makes him more or less ignore Rudy's tendencies, whereas the maid couldn't help but notice them immediately. Yet because Paul is like that, the maid must have just thought like father, like son, even when the son is a small child.

[MFauli]

Honestly, at this point I wonder what WOULD happen if Rudy told his parents that he is a reincarnated guy from another dimension. The time they'd spent up until now has been mostly genuine, Rudy isn't that much of an actor, he went with the flow.

I hope that is something that happens at some point. Maybe it'll be a tragic incident, but Rudy should be confident and strong enough by then to accept the consequences. And really, none of this is his fault.

[Kraco]

Honestly, at this point I wonder what WOULD happen if Rudy told his parents that he is a reincarnated guy from another dimension. The time they'd spent up until now has been mostly genuine, Rudy isn't that much of an actor, he went with the flow.

I hope that is something that happens at some point. Maybe it'll be a tragic incident, but Rudy should be confident and strong enough by then to accept the consequences. And really, none of this is his fault.

He's pretty smart, yet cautious, thus he should never say it. He's pining for a whole new, successful life this time, after having experienced one failure of a life. It would be highly counterproductive for him to reveal anything of that sort. I don't know why you'd hope for such a thing. You also say that none of it is his fault, yet he should be strong enough to accept the consequences. Why should he need to bear any of the consequences when it's not his fault, not his choice to be reborn? Not to mention it would also hurt his parents. Totally pointless. If he's given a splendid second chance, then it's better to use it, not drag his forlorn past into the second chance.

[MFauli]

He's pretty smart, yet cautious, thus he should never say it. He's pining for a whole new, successful life this time, after having experienced one failure of a life. It would be highly counterproductive for him to reveal anything of that sort. I don't know why you'd hope for such a thing. You also say that none of it is his fault, yet he should be strong enough to accept the consequences. Why should he need to bear any of the consequences when it's not his fault, not his choice to be reborn? Not to mention it would also hurt his parents. Totally pointless. If he's given a splendid second chance, then it's better to use it, not drag his forlorn past into the second chance.

Because it must feel awful to keep such a shocking secret/lie to yourself. Similar to how pedophiles must feel irl when they don't commit any crimes but still are deathly scared of being found out. Living with a lie is terrible. (disclaimer: I'm not a pedophile, sigh. But it's the perfect example)

[DarthEnderX]

Can is open, don't let it spoil now!

I know it's a tough thinking exercise for someone like you, but ols, give it a try.I think I had this discussion recently with Buffy and Angel. Like, this 240-year-old dude is trying to fuck this teenager. I ultimately gave him a pass cause, like, when you're 240, even an 80 year old lady is still an uncomfortable age gap. What else are you supposed to do?

[Kraco]

Because it must feel awful to keep such a shocking secret/lie to yourself. Similar to how pedophiles must feel irl when they don't commit any crimes but still are deathly scared of being found out. Living with a lie is terrible. (disclaimer: I'm not a pedophile, sigh. But it's the perfect example)

I'd say he would be more relieved if nobody ever found out. Unlike with hiding a crime, or equivalent, there's no way an outsider would suddenly learn of it, out of his control. It's also not really something he would need to feel ashamed of, especially if he tries to be as good a son as he can. He wants to live his second life without regrets, so why mar it with his past life full of regrets? Not to mention, like I said, he would actually hurt his parents permanently if he told them. Their relationship wouldn't be the same anymore. I simply see no benefit in telling them but plenty of disadvantages.

[neflight86]

Since Rudy is such a prodigy, this may be one of the first times Paul has had to actually 'dad' on his son. He has almost no experience with Rudy being disagreeable or disobedient; he never even left the house/yard before, much less cause anyone (serious) problems. Like he (Paul) said, he was a little excited that the boy finally got in trouble- like there was some rascal in him yet. I liken it to buying a tool box of wonderful implements, only to have them sit around for years, and the twisted delight at finally getting to use them once something needs fixing. As a man (and a noble), his duty is to guide and correct his son into a proper adult. Paul just had no way of knowing his otherwise normal looking son was already halfway there (at least counting the development of cynicism), so he jumped the gun a bit in 'laying down the law'. A rookie mistake by a rookie dad. It takes a big man to control the frustration of being called out on your mistake by someone with no power over you. I can respect Paul for that.

About Sylfie... I think it is fair to assume Rudeus hasn't been around someone child aged for about 30 years at this point, so I can forgive not being wise to the little ball of cooties, even if that scene was a bit contrived to obviously facilitate another perv moment. But it was used well in the following scenes.

Did you notice that Paul said both that 'infidelity runs in the family', and for him to bring home a 'girlfriend or two'? Paul has his own set of priorities, and that makes him more of a character.

[KrayZ33]

Quite amazing how this show managed to make "baby problems" interesting to watch - in all honesty.

It was a very thin line the author had to walk to make Rudy not feel like a little shit and know-it-all and I'd like to say that he managed to do that well enough to make it look like we are talking about a 30+ year old guy from a modern age, a NEET *and* a ~9-10year old (how old is rudy?) child at the same time.

pretty tough, and pretty well done, kudos.


Again, another amazing episode in my book. If this keeps going I'll be sure to start reading the LN.
I wonder if they can keep up to the quality of this show.

The inner speech scenes are also quite well done in conjunction to what is actually happening on the screen.
You aren't looking at "stills" whenever he speaks to himself and they happen "fast enough" to not make it feel like Rudy makes really weird and awkward pauses and "drifts away" into his train of thought.

I have a heart for children like Sylphiette. When she went to Rudy with the book after casting that ice spell and said "teach me the next one" it felt really warm inside. It's just the best when a child comes at you with hopes, trust and admiration like that. Again a little bonus point for the anime to just show it like that and not telling us directly. Very minor, but very much appreciated

Obviously even better to know that these 2 "kids" are basically the first friend in years to each other.

And last but not least, when he was exploring the village/forest, I got some serious Spice and Wolf vibes (mostly due to the music)

But seriously, how old is Rudy now?
Anime children always look like they are 4-5.
I kinda wonder when I started to see girls as girls (as in: *I have to cover myself up in front of them*)
I think it was somewhere in grade school and not much before that - but I could be wrong, lol.

[Kraco]

But seriously, how old is Rudy now?
Anime children always look like they are 4-5.
I kinda wonder when I started to see girls as girls (as in: *I have to cover myself up in front of them*)
I think it was somewhere in grade school and not much before that - but I could be wrong, lol.

Didn't he turn five years old in the previous ep? I'm not sure if significant time has passed since then, but I imagine not.

[David75]

Paul vs Rudeus has been very well explained and described.
The other part I liked was how Sylphiette was able to use magic without voicing a spell.
It showed how Rudeus trusts Sylphiette, because after all he'd like to keep an edge.
But he also learns that others can do it. Although Sylphiette could be a rare exception too as she's an elph and they are said to be the ones who discovered/studied and taught magic. So it's entirely possible they have a great afinity and natural abilities for magic.
And let's not forget they are children, which might help greatly with anything related to senses

[Ryllharu]

But the look on his face when she first cast without an incantation... isekai'd NEET disappointed that they're not extremely special.

If Roxy couldn't, but they both could, I wonder how much habit becomes impediment. They simply don't try to feel the flow inside?

[Buffalobiian]

Last week the maid found Roxy's underwear. This week Rudy still had it. Either:

1) The scenes are not chronological, or
2) Rudy had 2 pairs, or
3) The maid gave it back to him....


.. as for MFauli's question - yes Rudy can fuck Sylphie.

Age-wise he looked quite a bit more mature and taller. I'd say he's 9 or something.

The kid with the bruise did look suspicious, but I figured Rudy just pegged water at him really hard.

We still low-key got to see further magical development by Rudy. He's still self studying and now can mix two spells simultaneously without chanting. In fact, I wonder how a normal person would do that anyway - would they interleave two spell chants together, or say them both sequentially before activating afterwards?

[KrayZ33]

Didn't he turn five years old in the previous ep? I'm not sure if significant time has passed since then, but I imagine not.

Ah, that's true it was his 5th birthday, so he is still 5 years old.

[Munsu]

2) Rudy had 2 pairs


Why settle with just 2? ;)

[Kraco]

3) The maid gave it back to him....


Isn't it obviously this? Rudy is a part of the family employing her. It's not her role to go around confiscating her employer's possessions. She could have taken the panties to Zenith, but let's think about it: That would make her relationship with Rudy much poorer, while she would gain absolutely nothing out of it. If she was Rudy's older sister, she most likely would have taken the underwear away from him, but she's not. However, if she simply returned them, without speaking a word to anyone, there might be a slight feeling of Rudy owing her one. As they all consider Rudy a genius (even if a perverted one), it's not a bad deal for her.

[MFauli]

Honestly, isn't the maiden aware of Rudy's real identity anyways? At least suspicious. She was when Rudy was born. And she looks rather sharp.

[Munsu]

Honestly, isn't the maiden aware of Rudy's real identity anyways? At least suspicious. She was when Rudy was born. And she looks rather sharp.

Well, why jump to the conclusion of real identity? I do recall some suspicions of how odd Rudy was behaving, but why should it be about his real identity? But yeah, she's always on guard around him.

[Ryllharu]

We don't know a lot about her, I've totally forgotten her name, but she's always kind of wary and cold.

[Kraco]

Honestly, isn't the maiden aware of Rudy's real identity anyways? At least suspicious. She was when Rudy was born. And she looks rather sharp.

Why would she think, in a million years, that Rudy is a weird reincarnation from another world? She has witnessed with her own eyes he's just far more mature than a kid his age normally, including being interested in women in a way different from a regular small boy (although I bet she just puts that down to Rudy being a genuine Greyrat, a natural born pervert, that is). Zenith declared him a genius, plus she was there when the magic teacher told she hasn't got anything more to teach him, a five years old brat. That's what she must be thinking as well, that Rudy is just a twisted genius.

It's not like you'd think, if you knew someone with an extraordinary personality, that they must be a space alien in a human disguise. You'd rather think they are savant, or something.

[MFauli]

Well, why jump to the conclusion of real identity? I do recall some suspicions of how odd Rudy was behaving, but why should it be about his real identity? But yeah, she's always on guard around him.

You're right. She actually suspected that there's an evil spirit inside the baby. Much better for Rudy xD

[DarthEnderX]

Why would she think, in a million years, that Rudy is a weird reincarnation from another world?

Perhaps she, herself, comes from another world?

[KrayZ33]

I was under the assumption that she thought Rudy is possessed by something.
But in my opinion, this is now in the past.

[Munsu]

Perhaps she, herself, comes from another world?

All to become a nana to a young perv LOL

[DarthEnderX]

All to become a nana to a young perv LOLWell, his parents seem like they were former adventurers. She might not be just a maid. She might be a former party member.

She just has an air about her like she's more of an assassin than a maid. Like how secret agent badass Alfred works for the Wayne family as a butler.

[David75]

Ep4 is out.

All in all a very strong ep. Quality is still high, dialogue, rythm.
The weakest part might have been how the Lilia incident has been solved.
It's great for the story and how Lilia opens up to Rudeus though.

I read the manga long ago, so I can still get surprised, amused and enjoy the show, which is great.

[MFauli]

.
The weakest part might have been how the Lilia incident has been solved.


I thought it was solved already, because it really was the only solution that didn't involve sending anyone to their demise.

The only weak part is the reaction of the wife. She should be more depressed, sad, broken. After all, she's forced to live with a cheating husband and the woman that corrupted her man's mind. Not to mention breaching the trust as a maid. But its a medieval world and she's powerless. But that's the only solution. She can't change it, thus her frustration and depression should be max levels.

Instead they fast forward as if nothing changed. I wonder if Paul had any sex since then? Ya know, I wouldn't be opposed to him basically having two wives, but fuck, then I need to see 'how' that happened, because it didn't seem like his wife would forgive him even the slightest insinuation of such relationship.

Honestly, I was joping Rudy would at one point say aloud that he plans to have more girls than just Sylphie, 'like my dad', then have the wife happen to hear that and go nuclear against both Paul and Rudy :D

Now he's in the company of a hot beast woman who's barely covering her nipples, lol. Should be fun.

PS: That prince groping Roxy was crass, but I feel like being put on literal fire is fair punishment.

[Kraco]

Zenith and Lilia are friends, so I suppose if Zenith genuinely can believe it was mostly Paul's fault, the two women can still keep interacting almost like before. Paul is a different thing. We shall see if the anime bothers to go into any detail with that. In the end it's Paul's house and Paul is the breadwinner, so Zenith either has to keep living there and get along with Paul to some degree or return to her distant home in something of a disgrace. Not to mention as it is, Rudeus is a day's travel away, but if Zenith returned to her parents' home, what would her chances of seeing Rudy be anymore?

It's quite hilarious that after this happened in the manga, even time Paul had any role in a chapter, sometimes even without, there would be no end of comments badmouthing Paul. He was made one scum of a character quite successfully by the author. I don't appreciate his infidelity, but I do think he's quite a good character. He has got a real personality. I guess flaws build a stronger character than being perfect.

[David75]

I did not give too much detail to not spoil as I was fairly early.
But yeah, that was a bit too easy. Even Rudeus manipulation was not that good.

Paul really is at fault but Zenith isn't all exempt:
-She can't be so oblivious she doesn't understand a young and faily nice maid could be a problem with the horny husband she has
-She can't be so insensible she doesn't understand them fucking so often has effects on those living under the same roof.
-I wonder if she knew the whole story Paul and Lilia had

Somehow, following Rudeus also prevents her from confronting some of her faults, even if minor ones compared to Paul's.

[Buffalobiian]

PS: That prince groping Roxy was crass, but I feel like being put on literal fire is fair punishment.

Hah.. if only burns left disfiguration and serious pain in anime like it does in real life..

I accidentally read that spoiler about Paul hitting on Lilia last week, and not only did I not expect it to occur this week, but also for it to be much less of a deal than it is. It took 5mins to resolve.

Oh, and I guess Rudy is 7 years of age now.

And Lilia actually did give Rudy his holy relic back?!

[Munsu]

Haven't watched the episode yet, but something I did want to comment on from last week was the reverence Rudy gives to the "holy relic". It goes beyond being perverted, but something he really actually treasures in honor of his master... as twisted as it may come across.

[Ryllharu]

I thought Paul would have some degree of redemption, considering he and Lilia knew each other from school, and she joined their household somehow, so there was probably some mutual past affection, but then the story came out that he also raped her in her sleep back then.

So...yeah. There's "horndog sleeping around," and then there's "No really, he's like, legit a rapist."

I don't feel bad at all that Rudy turned both women against Paul to keep their household intact and preserve both his sisters.

As far as Rudy goes, would it really matter if he was good with the sword offensively? He just needs to be able to deflect blows, and then go pure spellsword for the offense.

[Kraco]

I thought Paul would have some degree of redemption, considering he and Lilia knew each other from school, and she joined their household somehow, so there was probably some mutual past affection, but then the story came out that he also raped her in her sleep back then.

So...yeah. There's "horndog sleeping around," and then there's "No really, he's like, legit a rapist."

The manga scanlation didn't say he outright raped her, just that he stole her first time, maybe forcefully to an unknown degree, or something along those lines, and had to quit the school, so there was something dubious about it. I wonder what the novel said. In fact I wish I knew Japanese better to verify what the anime said. It wouldn't be the first time official subtitles adjusted things. I find it being a sheer rape quite peculiar. Why would they, after that, work in the same party and why would Lilia come to work in his household? Unless it was one of those shoujo/josei manga rapes: If the man is hot enough, it's not actually an act of raping.

[Ryllharu]

Hmm.

Well, we are dealing with Funimation.

[Buffalobiian]

I mean.. he does seem to make a big deal about "if the girl says no, don't".
And if he did rape her, MC's comment of "he's scum" is rather mild.

I rewatched that scene and I only caught "deflowered". I couldn't aurally make sense of anything further.

And a shout out to the sick burn that is "Is it cool to cheat on your wife and almost wreck your family?"

[Kraco]

Depriving someone of their virginity could still be different from raping someone in an essential way. If we assume a society values a single woman's virginity, then simply secuding a woman and removing that virginity could be a major disservice, even if the woman didn't resist at all but went along willingly (after getting seduced). It would also, in this story's case, explain why Lilia sought employment under Paul.

[MFauli]

I mean.. he does seem to make a big deal about "if the girl says no, don't".
And if he did rape her, MC's comment of "he's scum" is rather mild.

I rewatched that scene and I only caught "deflowered". I couldn't aurally make sense of anything further.

And a shout out to the sick burn that is "Is it cool to cheat on your wife and almost wreck your family?"

Alright, you guys made me rewatch it, too. God, these fantasy anime use vocabs I've never heard, but now I learned that 'ageku no hate' means 'finally'. Can't they just use 'yatto' ;(

Anyway. The whole 'assaulted Lilia when she was sleeping' comes from the two word 'nekomi' and 'osou'. The former means 'while sleeping/sick', the latter ... well, take a look at jisho:

https://jisho.org/search/osou

I'd bet a good amount of money that 'assault/attack' is not the meaning the author intended for this scene. Imo it makes infinitely more sense to translate it as 'he surprised Lilia while she was asleep', which still is shady as hell, but a far cry from stating he raped her.

But hey, that's funimation/crunchyroll for you. Gotta inject political agenda in there.

[Ryllharu]

"Surprising" a sleeping woman by taking her virginity is...rape.

I just double-checked the LN wikia (risking spoiling myself in the process). There's no question. It's located under "trivia".

[Munsu]

"Surprising" a sleeping woman by taking her virginity is...rape.

I just double-checked the LN wikia (risking spoiling myself in the process). There's no question. It's located under "trivia".

I don't think the LN wikia is reliable, I mean to what I've seen they don't say what actually happened... they just put whatever the wikia writer concluded. I read the passages, it wasn't as clear cut as it's made out to be. Don't want to say more than that. I don't know their age difference though, and what's accepted in THAT society. But yeah, not sure what passage you read if anything or if it was just a conclusion as presented by the wikia.

But I don't know if they'll touch upon this later in the anime or if it changed anything from the WN, or how it was presented in the manga, but it was an extra chapter in the LN, not sure if LN original... at least one of the POVs.

Edit: Then yeah, can't trust the "trivia"... unless they tell you what actually the passages say, it's just a conclusion that whomever wrote the wikia arrived to, and maybe written without all the information at hand.

[MFauli]

"Surprising" a sleeping woman by taking her virginity is...rape.

I just double-checked the LN wikia (risking spoiling myself in the process). There's no question. It's located under "trivia".

And I rewatche it again to figure out the exact wording. Was difficult because my ears are bad. He doesnt say 'surprising her BY taking her virginity'. Rudy days 'he surprised her in her sleep AND took her virginity, that's the kind of guy he was'. Or in Japanese romaji: 'nekomi osoi, junketsu o chi rashii yatsu'.

Again, still shady as hell, but it sounds way more like her sneaked into her bedroom and then she accepted his approaches and they had consenting sex.

Reminder that this is Japanese where the word 'yobai suru' exists, look it up for the lulz.

Edit: also Lilia herself said she had seduced the master.

[Ryllharu]

I'm not judging how Lilia got knocked up. She tempted Paul, he went for it. We know he's a womanizer and a bit of a scumbag. We kind of got the impression that she lusts after Paul before, it just wasn't so easy to connect the dots before.

But he obviously "sexually assaulted" Lilia when they were both younger. Even if she "liked it."

The fact that you're trying to downplay it is kinda fucked up.

[MFauli]

I'm not judging how Lilia got knocked up. She tempted Paul, he went for it. We know he's a womanizer and a bit of a scumbag.

But he obviously "sexually assaulted" Lilia when they were both younger. Even if she "liked it."

The fact that you're trying to downplay it is kinda fucked up.

What's fucked up is that you ignore translation that I just presented in full detail. At no point does it say 'assault her sexually'. That is funimation/crunchyroll.

It really says 'surprised her in her sleep' and anything beyond that is up for interpretation. You can surprise someone in his/her sleep without it being rape.

Like, it should be obvious, but for example:

*noises from window*
Lilia: "H-huh? W-who's there?"
Pail: "pshh! It's me, Paul."
Lilia: "What are you doing here?! This the girls dorm!"
Paul: "I couldn't stop thinking about you and had to see you. Lilia, I think I love you."
Lilia: *blushes* Oh ... but ..."
Paul: *approaches her bed* "Don't send me back ..."
Lilia: "Paul ... this is wrong ..."
Paul: *puts his hand on her cheek* "You are so beautiful that it hurts my heart ..." *goes in for the kiss*
Lilia: "... ah, Paul ... no ... ah ..."
Paul: "Should I stop?"
Lilia: "... no ..."

The end

That would perfectly fit the words Rudy uses and I think it's way more likely than Paul being a violent rapist that got away with it and his victim working as his maid.

But you do you, Ryll

[DarthEnderX]

Okay, realtalk: Is this just an ecchi series you all are tricking me into watching?


"Surprising" a sleeping woman by taking her virginity is...rape.Ya.


The fact that you're trying to downplay it is kinda fucked up.Especially when the show itself doesn't.

Even our goddamn narrator is like, "Yeah, he's total scum..."


What's fucked up is that you ignore translation that I just presented in full detail.No offense, but I wouldn't take your word on the translation of something where the topic of sexual assault was involved.



Like, it should be obvious, but for example:

*noises from window*
Lilia: "H-huh? W-who's there?"
Pail: "pshh! It's me, Paul."
Lilia: "What are you doing here?! This the girls dorm!"
Paul: "I couldn't stop thinking about you and had to see you. Lilia, I think I love you."
Lilia: *blushes* Oh ... but ..."
Paul: *approaches her bed* "Don't send me back ..."
Lilia: "Paul ... this is wrong ..."
Paul: *puts his hand on her cheek* "You are so beautiful that it hurts my heart ..." *goes in for the kiss*
Lilia: "... ah, Paul ... no ... ah ..."
Paul: "Should I stop?"
Lilia: "... no ..."I'm glad you felt the need to write us a little fanfiction for how the fairly straightforward interpretation could possibly, technically mean something else...MAYBE.

This is a flawless example here of "mental gymnastics".

[MFauli]

Okay, realtalk: Is this just an ecchi series you all are tricking me into watching?

Ya.

Especially when the show itself doesn't.

Even our goddamn narrator is like, "Yeah, he's total scum..."

No offense, but I wouldn't take your word on the translation of something where the topic of sexual assault was involved.

I'm glad you felt the need to write us a little fanfiction for how the fairly straightforward interpretation could possibly, technically mean something else...MAYBE.

This is a flawless example here of "mental gymnastics".


You wouldn't take the word of someone's translation who read a lot of doujins, thus being familiar with the topic? Ok.

Both you and Ryll choose to accept a bad translation. And then you mix it with your absurd stance that 'surprising in her sleep' = rape.

That's just wtf.

[Kraco]

No offense, but I wouldn't take your word on the translation of something where the topic of sexual assault was involved.

I sure hope you aren't taking Funimation's translation at face value either. Virtue signalling is pretty heavy with these companies these days. I can imagine if you approached Funimation through their official channels (if they have any) to ask about this, they would either ban you or ignore you.

I wouldn't particularly care about this specific case as we all know Paul is a scumbag, so it's all about nuances at best. However, like I've already said two times, this isn't only about Paul. This is about Lilia as well. I would very much like to hear the Funimation translator's thoughts on why Lilia purposefully sought to be employed by the man who, according to the translator, raped her.

[DarthEnderX]

Oh, and since the topic of "Is Rudeus/Sylph a problem?" came up last week, I will say that, with his "I'll groom her to become my ideal woman" comment this week, that yes, it is now, officially, a problem.

That is essentially a statement of intent that he's going to use his adult experience to manipulate her into becoming a woman that best suits his taste. Which is like going "Hey, you know what the actual SPECIFIC problem with trying to enter into a relationship with a minor is? Well I'm going to do exactly that."


I sure hope you aren't taking Funimation's translation at face value either.No, but I'll take it over the random guy on a message board with a history of going out of his way to defend sexual assault.


And then you mix it with your absurd stance that 'surprising in her sleep' = rape.Surprise (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=116&v=J5MZyJZSN3k)!

[Ryllharu]

Oh, and since the topic of "Is Rudeus/Sylph a problem?" came up last week, I will say that, with his "I'll groom her to become my ideal woman" comment this week, that yes, it is now, officially, a problem.

That is essentially a statement of intent that he's going to use his adult experience to manipulate her into becoming a woman that best suits his taste. Which is like going "Hey, you know what the actual SPECIFIC problem with trying to enter into a relationship with a minor is? Well I'm going to do exactly that."

Yeah, this is also a problem. Rudy has really only reinforced this episode, though his narration, that he still considers himself a 40-something year old man and not a 7-year old on a redo.

There's plenty of other series out there that don't do this in a creepy way. 27 year old becoming 16 again, 30-somethings becoming 17 again, 30-something getting jumped back to his 10 year old self (temporarily), 30-something edgelord reborn as an unironic edgelord and embracing it fully...

The difference is that though they're more mature about their redo, they're also still generally embracing getting to be an idiot kid again (edit: Also expressing active intent to not make the same mistakes, and they deliberately and purposefully do not).

Rudy's not. He's already convinced his "step-mother(?)" from infancy he was possessed by the devil by leering at her big jugs all the time. Like...ALL the time. He's notably very calculating and manipulative. Paul's noticed, even if Zenith hasn't. The discussion about school was more like, "Well you already know everything, why even send you?" and completely ignore the potential for Rudy to socialize with more than just Sylphie.

Now Rudy's being very open about wanting to groom little girls. I realize it is a common thing in Japanese literature (Tale of Genji), but the fact that his friendship/crush with Sylphie is already going down a weird direction is concerning. He has a figurine of what he wants her to be as an adult. So there's a clear end-goal for his intent. He has a very long history, even so far, of how emotionally manipulative he can be. It's one thing to teach her magic, make her strong, be close friends with her across the years, pay for her tuition to school so they can continue to hang out. It's another to openly state intent to mold her personality from the perspective of a self-proclaimed emotionally manipulative adult.

He should be learning from his mistakes in his past life, but he's not as much as I hoped he would. He's really still going for his own selfish ends, while only improving slightly.

The few good deeds he's been doing lately are not outweighing the plans he seems to have for those around him.

I generally like this series, but I can see pretty easily why people say it is a bit problematic, because it is. This isn't being "woke," some of this stuff should set off red flags for anyone.

[Kraco]

He should be learning from his mistakes in his past life, but he's not as much as I hoped he would. He's really still going for his own selfish ends, while only improving slightly.

The few good deeds he's been doing lately are not outweighing the plans he seems to have for those around him.

I generally like this series, but I can see pretty easily why people say it is a bit problematic, because it is. This isn't being "woke," some of this stuff should set off red flags for anyone.

I don't think he was ever presented as any shining example of humanity. His past life was nothing but one giant regret, this time he wants to live without regrets, live fully. However, his past life still inevitably will shape this life as well. I mean, if he had been an American, he might have ended his life as a school shooter. Keeping that in mind, he should still carry some poison in his soul. Humans are humans, be their Japanese or American, what differs is how they attempt to deal with their problems due to the upbringing, culture, and society around them, but the traumas will be the same.

Anyway, I never really cared that much about what people think or even plan inside of their heads. What they actually do is what matters. Rudy might have caused Lilia discomfort by staring at her, but in the end that was all it was, and I'd guess when he grew up a bit, he couldn't anymore do it as blatantly as it would have looked too dubious. I'm sure he was still stealing glances as much as he could. If we think about Sylphie, Rudy more or less saved her and allowed her to become a whole lot better person, to the point of making her a rare silent magician. He has done absolutely nothing that would have hurt her, or her chances in life, so far. He might think he wanted to shape her this way or that, but in reality he did nothing (apart from making Sylphie like him, her savior). Now he was sent away anyway and separated from Sylphie, so it's all moot.

Judge him after he has actually done something. If his inner thoughts weren't presented, you wouldn't even know anything.

[MFauli]

Yeah, this is also a problem. Rudy has really only reinforced this episode, though his narration, that he still considers himself a 40-something year old man and not a 7-year old on a redo.

There's plenty of other series out there that don't do this in a creepy way. 27 year old becoming 16 again, 30-somethings becoming 17 again, 30-something getting jumped back to his 10 year old self (temporarily), 30-something edgelord reborn as an unironic edgelord and embracing it fully...

The difference is that though they're more mature about their redo, they're also still generally embracing getting to be an idiot kid again (edit: Also expressing active intent to not make the same mistakes, and they deliberately and purposefully do not).

Rudy's not. He's already convinced his "step-mother(?)" from infancy he was possessed by the devil by leering at her big jugs all the time. Like...ALL the time. He's notably very calculating and manipulative. Paul's noticed, even if Zenith hasn't. The discussion about school was more like, "Well you already know everything, why even send you?" and completely ignore the potential for Rudy to socialize with more than just Sylphie.

Now Rudy's being very open about wanting to groom little girls. I realize it is a common thing in Japanese literature (Tale of Genji), but the fact that his friendship/crush with Sylphie is already going down a weird direction is concerning. He has a figurine of what he wants her to be as an adult. So there's a clear end-goal for his intent. He has a very long history, even so far, of how emotionally manipulative he can be. It's one thing to teach her magic, make her strong, be close friends with her across the years, pay for her tuition to school so they can continue to hang out. It's another to openly state intent to mold her personality from the perspective of a self-proclaimed emotionally manipulative adult.

He should be learning from his mistakes in his past life, but he's not as much as I hoped he would. He's really still going for his own selfish ends, while only improving slightly.

The few good deeds he's been doing lately are not outweighing the plans he seems to have for those around him.

I generally like this series, but I can see pretty easily why people say it is a bit problematic, because it is. This isn't being "woke," some of this stuff should set off red flags for anyone.

There two answers to this.

The easier answer is: So what? Rudy didn't choose to get into this situation, he can't change it at will, he's trapped there in this life as a young boy. You guys told me last week that there'd come no good from Rudy telling anyone the truth about himself, so at that point you also have to accept that he's gonna live life as if he was that boy, Rudy. Whether he still has some ideas from his past 40yo-life or not doesn't matter, because, again: He didn't choose all of this. Do you all know the Tom Hanks movie "Big"? In that movie, an underage boy ends up having sex with an adult woman when he magically turns into an adult man's body over night. Is the woman a rapist for having sex with someone who looked like an adult, but clearly behaved like a kid? It's basically the reverse situation. The answer is the same: Nobody chose this, so accept reality and move on. Rudy will forever be a boy/man around Selphie's age (assuming she's not already 100 yo, considering her elf-dna. Although her human parent is alive, so probably not). No matter how much time passes. When Sylphie is 20, Rudy will be, like, 55. Will that be okay? When Sylphie is 40, Rudy will be, like, 75. That okay? The point: It's a new life. That's literally the point of an isekai story. And acknowledging that makes it acceptable imo.

As a sidenote: I'd like to challenge you guys' "he shouldn't tell anybody about his former life, it wouldn't do him any good". Have you NEVER felt guilty about something and, even knowing you'd probably get punished, just had to tell someone about it? I find it rather shocking that I'm supposed to be the only one who's like that. I remember when I was in kindergarten and I wasted the sticky tape roll. Kindergarten teachers asked everyone who did it. Nobody said a thing, me neither. As I was hiding on the playground outside, I felt miserable and eventually approached one of the kindergarten teachers and cryingly admitted that it was me. I receiver a couple stern words, but I also felt so much better afterwards. Lying to people feels bad, having to keep lying feels worse. If I were Rudy, I'd absolutely tell someone. Maybe I'd tell Sylphie, both to get it off my chest and because she's nice, and also to give her the choice of removing me from her life in case she's scared/creeped out.

Now, the more complicated answer. Warning: If you cannot bear philosophical discussions, don't read on. The following does NOT mean that I'm in favor of "grooming" or child sex. It's a hypothetical scenario, just like this anime, and I'll be writing about hypothetical approaches that I'd never try in real life for a myriad of reasons. So keep your accusations to yourself.

Anyway, you accuse Rudy for the "molding her to my liking" and yes, it sounds bad at first glimpse. It's certainly perverted, yeah. But I have though about this many times before (because unfortunately the whole pedo-shit is a recurring topic when you're an adult fan of anime and japanese video games. sigh. Just yesterday I saw someone call fans of Xenoblade Chronicles 2 "pedos" for liking the character designs of the game ...) and honestly, the term "grooming" is total bullshit. The issue that "grooming" tries to indicate is that evil adults trick children into acts of sex. That's the short version of it, the popular one, I think. I take two issues with that: First, what when a "good" adult approaches a child and doesn't do any "tricks" and once the child reaches Age of Consent, the two enter a relationship? Everybody is happy, nobody is hurt ... but society condemns the older person and pushes everyone to misery. That's the one issue, a very hypothetical one, again, thinking about it philosophically. Nobody is hurt, everybody is happy, but somehow it's still evil? Eh. And there's my second issue: How is "grooming" any different to regular "hitting on women"?! The whole "tricking" is the very same. You see a woman you find attractive, now you do your best to "convince" her to accept you and let you fuck her. That's the key difference: "Convince" being used instead of "trick". The real world meaning is the very same. You trick a woman, and a bad person convinces a child. Conceptually, from the man's perspective, grooming and hitting on women are the same. There is one more difference, yes, and that is the mental capability of a woman vs a child. The biggest issue I take with that argument is that NOT ALL WOMEN ARE THE SAME. And thought further, NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE THE SAME. I've been taking note about this topic for a book I plan to write. Basically, I refuse the societal distinction between "child" and "adult". Don't misunderstand, there are some differences and the laws we have a pretty good for the most part. What I hate, however, is how we treat children like raw eggs, but the moment they turn 18 (or 21 or whatever your cutoff age is), we give a literal crap about them. But biologically, there is no such cutoff age. And there never will be. People have different experiences in life, different mental makeup. And no matter what, all adults are always the child they once were. I often get really sad when I think about that, looking at some random 50yo guy or 45yo woman, how cold they'be become, how they just "function" to continue to go to work and earn money, maybe have children, but that's it. No passion, no real joy beyond "this is what I must do, because society has forced me to become that way". I often just wanna hug these older people and pat their heads and tell them "It's alright", but, lol, I'd probably be pushed back, called a creeper and have the police on my ass ^^ "Age" is something that relates to everyone of us, and yet our society handles it sooo badly. The worst one being the distinction between "adult" and "child", beyond some good laws. To go back to Rudy: When he says "mold her to my liking", it's really two things: First, a random degenerate weeb's bullshit thinking. Considering he worships Roxy's panties, he might have thought that simply for an internal meme. Second, everyone does that to some degree. Yeah, I can already hear you say "No, I don't. When I'm attracted to a woman I want her as she is". But that's bs. Before you even approach her, you chose her because what you saw was "to your liking". That's where it begins. Then you start talking, it's generally pleasant. But you find out she smokes, and you think "I'll help her quit smoking". Then you spend more time with each other and you find out she voted Trump, so you think "fuck, I'll try my best to make her realize that Trump and the Republicans are evil". And then, after marrying her, she asks you which of 3 hairstyles you'd prefer on her, and you choose the one "to your liking". Point being: "Molding someone to your liking" is normal, we do this everytime we interact with people and want more interaction with them. We want more because of the parts we like, but the parts we don't like we hope to "improve". And realistically, what's Rudy gonna do to Sylphie? He already accepted that she's probably gonna be better at magic than him soon. He helped her escape being bullied and ostracized by others. Now he spends time with her and we haven't seen him do anything out of the ordinary. So, what do you expect when you complain about his line "mold her to my liking"? That he convinces her of some sexual practices? Sure, once she's old enough. When I had sex with a woman who never had given a bj (she was 30, in-before dumb accusations ...), I had to ease her in on the idea, too, before she eventually did it. That's normal for anything that someone hasn't done before. If DarthEnderX loves to have anal sex, I doubt his gf was like "whatever". When Ryll first asked his gf to pee on him, I'm sure her first reaction was "eww!". So I ask again: What do you think will Rudy do bad in regards to "mold her to my liking"?

Phew. That was longer than intended. I hope you actually read and understand that, but I don't havem much hope for that happening and instead expect some "WTF" and "omg" and "you're defending grooming, dude". No, I'm not. As I clearly explained above. These are mostly philosophical thought experiments and if you don't have the mental capability to think abstractly, then fault lies with you. With utmost clarity: I condemn anyone who grooms a real child or otherwise engages romantically with a real child.



Surprise (https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=116&v=J5MZyJZSN3k)!

So you're incapable of understanding "surprising someone in her sleep" as anything but rape? Wow. I guess English isn't your first language.

[Ryllharu]

[Pro-grooming screed]

Phew. That was longer than intended. I hope you actually read and understand that, but I don't havem much hope for that happening and instead expect some "WTF" and "omg" and "you're defending grooming, dude". No, I'm not. As I clearly explained above. These are mostly philosophical thought experiments and if you don't have the mental capability to think abstractly, then fault lies with you. With utmost clarity: I condemn anyone who grooms a real child or otherwise engages romantically with a real child.

This is called the Fantasy Defense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_defense) btw. It's specifically used with exactly this type of act.

[KrayZ33]

Okay, realtalk: Is this just an ecchi series you all are tricking me into watching?


Not sure if I'm missing something here or if you are referencing something, but if this is a honest question:
This is certainly fantasy anime with ecchi elements and typical ecchi-humor in between.
But the story itself in that regard is relatively "mature" compared to their counterparts I'd say.

Will watch this episode later when I'm home and the MTBBs version is out.
Kinda wondering what this fuss is about.

[MFauli]

This is called the Fantasy Defense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_defense) btw. It's specifically used with exactly this type of act.

Fuck you.

I explained it in great detail and you dismiss everything, accusing me of heinous shit.

[DarthEnderX]

I like how you assume that because he didn't cut and paste your entire argument, that means he just dismissed it, instead of reading it and just accurately evaluating it with brevity.

I also like how you assume that because you made an argument long, that automatically means it had merit.



So you're incapable of understanding "surprising someone in her sleep" as anything but rape?
"Surprise! I made pancakes! That'll be one virginity please."

[Munsu]

"Surprise! I made pancakes! That'll be one virginity please."

"Here, have my virginity... you're hot and can't help myself".

[MFauli]

I like how you assume that because he didn't cut and paste your entire argument, that means he just dismissed it, instead of reading it and just accurately evaluating it with brevity.

I also like how you assume that because you made an argument long, that automatically means it had merit.


It means he and you didn't understand it or chose to not understand, because it made you uncomfortable. Which is unfortunately the typical reaction to these topics.

But if Ryll doesn't take back what he said, I guess I better leave this forum. You surely don't want someone here you believe to be a pedo-criminal rapist ...

[Munsu]

It means he and you didn't understand it or chose to not understand, because it made you uncomfortable. Which is unfortunately the typical reaction to these topics.

But if Ryll doesn't take back what he said, I guess I better leave this forum. You surely don't want someone here you believe to be a pedo-criminal rapist ...

Well, he didn't dismiss your point and didn't called you that either from what I saw. You presented an hypothetical, and he gave you a simple real world application of it. I mean, quoting your full post again which was huge, served little purpose. I mean, save it for your book? LOL, it honestly a was a huge ramble... not a reason enough to rage quit in my view. /shrugs

I'm of mind of being in both camps, to a point. I don't believe "children" (and here I mean mostly late teens) are always entirely blameless or that they're automatically a victim of something... but law-wise, yeah they're victims. As for the adults, regardless of intentions or the whatever made the "relationship" unique, they're ALWAYS in the wrong. And yes, "grooming" (as in the act of molding to be prepared to pounce once they hit legal age) is very wrong. It's very gray area admittedly, on how it forms about, but since not always that's the intention, but the existence of the possibility just makes it wrong from the get go. And yes, selected ages are mostly arbitrary/partly science/partly social contract acceptances; deal with it.

"Children" need to be protected, regardless of how special or supposedly unique the circumstance is.

Now, as it regards to Rudy. I'm not sure what the correct answer is. Some of his actions/thoughts make me (and should for all) make us uncomfortable. We can sympathize to a point, even accept it and understand it because these were the cards that he was dealt, but I don't think it's right to think what he's doing is proper or correct in any way. It's his new life, he's a kid now, let him live... but that doesn't go without judgment. It'll always be a stain he can't wash off.

As for Paul, I'm in the camp that the translation is doing a disservice and confirming with the wikia, without access to the source, is also a mistake. Shouldn't be confirming with the wikia as it is, but since it was brought up, the wikia is misleading. And I'm not saying that Paul didn't do wrong in the past, but it's not as it is painted.

[neflight86]

Sidestepping the other conversation...

Ep4

More good isekai slice of life that doesn't involve questing to save the world. Paul really got himself into it this time- I like how he said it (the baby) was 'probably' his when there were absolutely no other options available. Some fast thinking by Rudy kept his family together, and I like that kind of consideration, as one mistake shouldn't dissolve a functioning family unit like that. If anything, he gave Zenith a way out as she clearly didn't want to toss out Lilia and her child. Arguably, their family is stronger than before, as there is less distance between Rudy and Lilia, and they have overcome a trial; at least that's how I'll look at it...

Leave it to a thirty year old to recognize that 'kids say the darndest things' and use that to make a fairly outrageous proposition under the guise of a 7 year old's excitement.

Roxy is apparently a creep magnet...

As far as Rudy's intentions with finding the perfect Waifu- while he does posses 30+ years of mental development over Sylphie, I seriously doubt that he has the social acumen to be a great influencer beyond 'childhood friend', as his experience in the old life was anything but a lady-killer. He has a deep understanding of things that hurt and tormented him specifically; not the things that eluded him so thoroughly, like how to make friends and be charismatic- his mind matches his body in that aspect...

I recall it being a common fetish that people tend to have a controlling, 'I will fix them' mentality towards broken people that lends itself to remaining in or joining suboptimal relationships; using their 'superior' life skills to get their partner 'on track' and foster affection via a twisted gratitude.

I almost forgot his parents were adventurers before. Does anyone know the full ranks of the sword styles? My shounen side is itching to rank Paul for reference.

Beast lady is curt and cute. I look forward to next week!

[MFauli]

Well, he didn't dismiss your point and didn't called you that either from what I saw. You presented an hypothetical, and he gave you a simple real world application of it. I mean, quoting your full post again which was huge, served little purpose. I mean, save it for your book? LOL, it honestly a was a huge ramble... not a reason enough to rage quit in my view. /shrugs

I'm of mind of being in both camps, to a point. I don't believe "children" (and here I mean mostly late teens) are always entirely blameless or that they're automatically a victim of something... but law-wise, yeah they're victims. As for the adults, regardless of intentions or the whatever made the "relationship" unique, they're ALWAYS in the wrong. And yes, "grooming" (as in the act of molding to be prepared to pounce once they hit legal age) is very wrong. It's very gray area admittedly, on how it forms about, but since not always that's the intention, but the existence of the possibility just makes it wrong from the get go. And yes, selected ages are mostly arbitrary/partly science/partly social contract acceptances; deal with it.

"Children" need to be protected, regardless of how special or supposedly unique the circumstance is.

Now, as it regards to Rudy. I'm not sure what the correct answer is. Some of his actions/thoughts make me (and should for all) make us uncomfortable. We can sympathize to a point, even accept it and understand it because these were the cards that he was dealt, but I don't think it's right to think what he's doing is proper or correct in any way. It's his new life, he's a kid now, let him live... but that doesn't go without judgment. It'll always be a stain he can't wash off.

As for Paul, I'm in the camp that the translation is doing a disservice and confirming with the wikia, without access to the source, is also a mistake. Shouldn't be confirming with the wikia as it is, but since it was brought up, the wikia is misleading. And I'm not saying that Paul didn't do wrong in the past, but it's not as it is painted.

1.) I will say: My "fuck you" towards Ryll only counts if he intended to call me a pedophile/future rapist. If I misunderstood that, I apologize. I guess I'll wait for his reply here ...

2.) Your stance sounds reasonable, I'm glad that not everyone here is scared of thinking about things with a "omg, what would others think about me if they found out ...!"-mindset. So, what did you think about the Usagi no Drop-manga? If you've read it.

3.) Regarding Paul: So do you agree that the intention of what is said in the original is NOT to mean that he raped Lilia? I feel like I'm going crazy when people here are dismissing my translation, when I even give them the full japanese words so they can check up the words on jisho.org themselves if they don't want to believe me. Paul is a scumbag ("scumbag" is a lighthearted word, you wouldn't call an actual rapist that), but there's nothing that says he raped Lilia. And seeing how everyone reacts, it wouldn't make sense.


More good isekai slice of life that doesn't involve questing to save the world. Paul really got himself into it this time- I like how he said it (the baby) was 'probably' his when there were absolutely no other options available. Some fast thinking by Rudy kept his family together, and I like that kind of consideration, as one mistake shouldn't dissolve a functioning family unit like that. If anything, he gave Zenith a way out as she clearly didn't want to toss out Lilia and her child. Arguably, their family is stronger than before, as there is less distance between Rudy and Lilia, and they have overcome a trial; at least that's how I'll look at it...


I guess the issue for Zenith is: How do the 3 of them, Paul, Zenith, Lilia, continue life together from here on out? Zenith only gets to have sex with her husband? Lilia only, because Zenith can't forgive him? Neither of them sleeps with him and he's forced into eternal celibate? Or the "dream", of course: All three are in a full relationship now and he has sex with both of them, maybe even sharing the big bed all together?

That's the issue that really must bog down Zenith, because either way she's losing out here. Either sharing her man with another woman. Or passing her man over to her. Or trusting him that he never again touches her (impossible imo). In the end, going for the "dream" would be the least troublesome solution, and Zenith might discover that lesbian sex is nice, too. But it obviously requires that she gives up a bit of her self-respect. I guess she could get herself a hot butler that she gets to sleep around with, lol.

[DarthEnderX]

I guess the issue for Zenith is: How do the 3 of them, Paul, Zenith, Lilia, continue life together from here on out? The solution is obvious. Lilia has to seduce Zenith. A polygamous marriage is the only way they can truly be a happy family again!


It means he and you didn't understand it or chose to not understandYes, it's definitely not just that we might disagree and think you're wrong. We just didn't UNDERSTAND. Your words were just too damn smart for us.


"scumbag" is a lighthearted wordI mean, the etymology of the word is literally a used condom. So...it's pretty bad, it's just lost it's bite from overuse and people not knowing the phrase's origin.

[Munsu]

3.) Regarding Paul: So do you agree that the intention of what is said in the original is NOT to mean that he raped Lilia? I feel like I'm going crazy when people here are dismissing my translation, when I even give them the full japanese words so they can check up the words on jisho.org themselves if they don't want to believe me. Paul is a scumbag ("scumbag" is a lighthearted word, you wouldn't call an actual rapist that), but there's nothing that says he raped Lilia. And seeing how everyone reacts, it wouldn't make sense.


I haven't watched the episode yet, just think that drawing the line in the sand on a phrase that can be mistranslated or given a different take depending on the context and editing choices of said translation is not the right way to go here.

Only stepped in when Ryll made it the absolute interpretation just because some wikia (an outside source) declared it as fact. Things aren't as black & white as it's made out to be, that's all I say... and whomever wrote the wikia is misleading the readers.

My only caveat in all of this, as I said is that I haven't watched the episode. I don't know the context yet on why it was said, and according to whose POV it was said. I'll watch it shortly.

As for taking your cue on how people react, again we have to remove our preconceptions of what is "accepted behavior" in an underdeveloped fantasy world. But since I haven't watched can't comment on that, but she could've very well been raped and if social standings made it an almost non-issue, then that also could explain why she came to this house despite the past... and depending if she was desperate to find a job or something.

[DarthEnderX]

I like how this series where almost nothing happens generates 10 times more talk than Attack On Titan, a series where EVERYTHING is happening.

[MFauli]

I like how this series where almost nothing happens generates 10 times more talk than Attack On Titan, a series where EVERYTHING is happening.

Just wait for the weekly episode of Redo of Healer, LOL

[shinta|hikari]

I won't butt in this whole debate, but I would like to clarify that the phrase "nekomi wo osou" (https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E5%AF%9D%E8%BE%BC%E3%81%BF%E3%82%92%E8%A5%B2%E3%8 1%86) fits the definition of rape in western societies. The literal meaning is to attack someone while they are asleep, but the whole Japanese phrase is generally understood as sexually assaulting a sleeping person.

To be fair, that exact phrase is sometimes used for comedic effect in a lot of ecchi anime, but the whole paragraph in this episode clearly does not imply that. Right after that phrase, "純潔を散らし" (junketsu wo chirashi) was used, which roughly means taking someone's virginity in a forceful/dishonorable way. The phrase literally translates to "scattering purity", so it does not imply a calm nor romantic encounter. But most of all, it definitely wasn't socially acceptable in their world because the statement after that said Paul fled his dojo due to what he did. The structure of the paragraph very clearly indicates that his actions forced him to escape.

[DarthEnderX]

See, NOW I'll believe a random guy on a message board, since their information confirms my preconceptions!

Savor my hypocrisy!

[David75]

Would it be possible to clean that thread from rape/incest/etc... arguments ?
We get it every season or more.
It's more or less variations on the same topic with nothing to gain or lose.
Except it becomes anoying and criples show threads.
I'm not against those discussions.
Just that it goes way too far now.
But that just how it feels to me after all.

[Munsu]

I won't butt in this whole debate, but I would like to clarify that the phrase "nekomi wo osou" (https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E5%AF%9D%E8%BE%BC%E3%81%BF%E3%82%92%E8%A5%B2%E3%8 1%86) fits the definition of rape in western societies. The literal meaning is to attack someone while they are asleep, but the whole Japanese phrase is generally understood as sexually assaulting a sleeping person.

To be fair, that exact phrase is sometimes used for comedic effect in a lot of ecchi anime, but the whole paragraph in this episode clearly does not imply that. Right after that phrase, "純潔を散らし" (junketsu wo chirashi) was used, which roughly means taking someone's virginity in a forceful/dishonorable way. The phrase literally translates to "scattering purity", so it does not imply a calm nor romantic encounter. But most of all, it definitely wasn't socially acceptable in their world because the statement after that said Paul fled his dojo due to what he did. The structure of the paragraph very clearly indicates that his actions forced him to escape.

Such a controversial passage. I looked in the LN how it was translated, and you don't get the impression that he attacked her, but that it indeed was a dishonorable act (as you also mention that possibility).

But translators/editors in LNs are the same as in anime, varied in quality.

Still we're getting the impression from a secondary source (Rudeus), and his impression of how he understood it. That said, he's probably giving us the modern context of how the action would be interpreted by us in the modern world. And Rudeus is no saint.

I went to check the raw of the WN, and Rudeus is fairly blatant that he considered Lilia's account as rape (I think)... it included the phrase: レイプに浮気。パウロはクズだ。(from Google: Reipu ni uwaki. Pauro wa kuzuda. - "Cheating on rape. Paul is a waste". [not sure what "Cheating on rape" could mean]). I bring this part because in the LN translation there's no allusion to this aspect, not sure if it was removed from the LN itself, or just omitted in the translation... actually, I think the LN translated it as "He was a cheater and a womanizer"... how do you get that from "Reipu", and with that in mind, did things change once the LN came out vs the WN in this particular regard (don't have access to that raw)?

After all of this, I don't know what the author was going for after checking everything. Like in some way yes, she lost her virginity, not in the best of ways, but not necessarily rape either... but at the same time, others may appreciate the event as rape (and various aspects points towards that). Maybe that was the intention, the gray area where an event is not clear cut, and at the same time using a different meaning on some of the words used in the phrases in controversy can depict a different thing altogether; "attack" vs "to make a sudden visit" vs "swoon" (maybe?) for example.

Not a fan of discussing things not found in the anime (yet), I mean technically breaking rules here... but fuck it, but I find this quite interesting... who has it right (anime or LN)? I mean these are all from official sources.


Would it be possible to clean that thread from rape/incest/etc... arguments ?
We get it every season or more.
It's more or less variations on the same topic with nothing to gain or lose.
Except it becomes anoying and criples show threads.
I'm not against those discussions.
Just that it goes way too far now.
But that just how it feels to me after all.

I can agree with this, but... I want to know what's the correct translation, and if there's only one real interpretation to it. We have to get to the bottom of this! LOL

But honestly, I feel with this series in particular it would be inevitable. But the discussion does indeed go too far as you say in many occasions. Not sure what the correct answer to THAT is.

[MFauli]

I won't butt in this whole debate, but I would like to clarify that the phrase "nekomi wo osou" (https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E5%AF%9D%E8%BE%BC%E3%81%BF%E3%82%92%E8%A5%B2%E3%8 1%86) fits the definition of rape in western societies. The literal meaning is to attack someone while they are asleep, but the whole Japanese phrase is generally understood as sexually assaulting a sleeping person.

To be fair, that exact phrase is sometimes used for comedic effect in a lot of ecchi anime, but the whole paragraph in this episode clearly does not imply that. Right after that phrase, "純潔を散らし" (junketsu wo chirashi) was used, which roughly means taking someone's virginity in a forceful/dishonorable way. The phrase literally translates to "scattering purity", so it does not imply a calm nor romantic encounter. But most of all, it definitely wasn't socially acceptable in their world because the statement after that said Paul fled his dojo due to what he did. The structure of the paragraph very clearly indicates that his actions forced him to escape.

Did you learn Japanese, shinta? If you know the language better than me, I can accept that. But where do you get your first statement from that 寝込みを襲う is generally understood as 'rape'? You're saying it literally means that, but that's only when you choose the least likely options to choose for 襲う here. Now, I don't know every Japanese phrase, that's why I ask if you've studied Japanese.

Because this is what a Japanese dictionary translates 寝込みを襲う as:
https://www.excite.co.jp/dictionary/je/sentence/%E5%AF%9D%E8%BE%BC%E3%81%BF%E3%82%92%E8%A5%B2%E3%8 1%86

"To surprise someone in their sleep", exactly what I translated it as before.

純血をちらし also is much less dramatic as you make it sound, that's just Japanese being the flowery language it always is. I just recently learnt 鼻くそ which means 'snot' - but literally, it's 'nose shit'. That's how Japanese is.

Nobody has said that Paul didn't do somethimg shady, but unless you claim to be a Japanese expert (something that I've been learning the language for over a decade to eventually become one), I think there's nothing in the anime that goes beyond the following:

- Paul sneaked into the girls' dorm at night
- he surprise Lilia in her sleep
- they had sex, during which Lilia lost her virginity
- Paul was chased away because the above was against the dojo rules

Whether there's rape involved or not simply isn't mentioned. And we know that Lilia likes Paul, she chose to become his maid and she seduced him while working there, her own words.

If there's rape involved, that would be a later revelation, but from this episode, it is NOWHERE to be found.

If DarthEnderX ridicules and dismisses this posting again I'm just gonna kms, because I can't handle people who dismiss a calm, factual posting like this one. If someone has a greater understanding of Japanese and the above phrases, then I'll listen, because I want to become better. But nothing I translated myself nor saw in Japanese dictionaries indicated rape.

[David75]

I can agree with this, but... I want to know what's the correct translation, and if there's only one real interpretation to it. We have to get to the bottom of this! LOL

But honestly, I feel with this series in particular it would be inevitable. But the discussion does indeed go too far as you say in many occasions. Not sure what the correct answer to THAT is.

Flame Pitt revival with a dedicated thread maybe ?

[MFauli]

Ok, I asked someone who just successfully earned himself the JLPT N1 result. He watches the anime and reads the LN. While he's an idiot who refuses to separate anime and LN, at least in the LN Paul seems to have raped Lilia.

The key phrase in the LN is 無理矢理, which means he did it forcibly. So by all means, he raped her. The reason why I believe they changed it in the anime, though, wasn't because of rape per say, but because the LN makes it sound like the typical h-doujin rape bs, where the victim ends up falling in love with the rapist, lol. To be more concrete, in the LN Lilia says "I didnt hate it" and wonders if this is what they call "romantic". Honestly, the LN version is just dumb.

The anime doesn't have that, however, so I stand by my translation of "nekomi o osou". It not being rape in the anime makes more sense, otherwise the story would need to go down a whole other rabbit hole, where you'd have to explain why Lilia chose to work as a maid for her rapist and even seduced him into more sex later on. That's some psychological trauma then that you couldn't excuse anymore and then Lilia or Paul would absolutely have to leave the house.

[Munsu]

Ok, I asked someone who just successfully earned himself the JLPT N1 result. He watches the anime and reads the LN. While he's an idiot who refuses to separate anime and LN, at least in the LN Paul seems to have raped Lilia.

The key phrase in the LN is 無理矢理, which means he did it forcibly. So by all means, he raped her. The reason why I believe they changed it in the anime, though, wasn't because of rape per say, but because the LN makes it sound like the typical h-doujin rape bs, where the victim ends up falling in love with the rapist, lol. To be more concrete, in the LN Lilia says "I didnt hate it" and wonders if this is what they call "romantic". Honestly, the LN version is just dumb.

The anime doesn't have that, however, so I stand by my translation of "nekomi o osou". It not being rape in the anime makes more sense, otherwise the story would need to go down a whole other rabbit hole, where you'd have to explain why Lilia chose to work as a maid for her rapist and even seduced him into more sex later on. That's some psychological trauma then that you couldn't excuse anymore and then Lilia or Paul would absolutely have to leave the house.

Well, you're talking about sections in the LN that haven't been adapted yet (it may never be, since that passage was right before the Rudeus' narration). That's why I mentioned a few times that we've only been seeing this from Rudeus' POV and how he interpreted it.

And I don't know if the person you talked to was reading the LN or the WN, because the LN translation is much softer... so I don't know if the source of the LN is different from what we saw in the WN, and in that particular passage, there's no talk about forcing...more like sneaking in (translation, even the google translation of that passage in the WN gives that connotation).

But all we have to go on is on how the anime wants to portray it, and on that regard everything is against Paul, but again... we're at the mercy of translating/editing choices.

I'll leave things at that, and hopefully the anime will bring more clarity at some point.

[MFauli]

What does WN mean? Wisual Novel? ;>

[shinta|hikari]

Did you learn Japanese, shinta? If you know the language better than me, I can accept that. But where do you get your first statement from that 寝込みを襲う is generally understood as 'rape'? You're saying it literally means that, but that's only when you choose the least likely options to choose for 襲う here. Now, I don't know every Japanese phrase, that's why I ask if you've studied Japanese.

Yes, I studied Japanese language for one year in Tokyo when I lived as an exchange student there. I also continued my study in my country's University and on my personal time. I did translations for some fansubs back when they were a thing, including Gotwoot Subs, actually. I also translated manga and sound episodes for fun for a while. Since I mostly consume Japanese media, I never really got rusty and only expanded my vocabulary and cultural understanding since.

I am sincerely not backing any argument in the thread. I just felt I needed to provide the most accurate translation of that monologue.

WN means Web Novel, which was the original material from the author until he published it in LN format. WNs are usually hosted in a web novel posting site, and the chapters are usually released one at a time, like a serialized story.

It is also very common for language and story to be toned down in LN vs WN. WNs basically have no editors and very little rules about their content. LNs will have to submit to the rules of the publisher and their market regulations.

[Munsu]

Yes, I studied Japanese language for one year in Tokyo when I lived as an exchange student there. I also continued my study in my country's University and on my personal time. I did translations for some fansubs back when they were a thing, including Gotwoot Subs, actually. I also translated manga and sound episodes for fun for a while. Since I mostly consume Japanese media, I never really got rusty and only expanded my vocabulary and cultural understanding since.

I am sincerely not backing any argument in the thread. I just felt I needed to provide the most accurate translation of that monologue.

WN means Web Novel, which was the original material from the author until he published it in LN format. WNs are usually hosted in a web novel posting site, and the chapters are usually released one at a time, like a serialized story.

It is also very common for language and story to be toned down in LN vs WN. WNs basically have no editors and very little rules about their content. LNs will have to submit to the rules of the publisher and their market regulations.

To add to that, in many ways the web novel can be considered a first draft.

[Kraco]

Too bad this whole thing is making me look down on the author. It would be one thing if Paul's crime was basically managing to cajole Lilia into an illicit sexual relationship, which would damage her reputation and prospects in life. It's another thing if it's pure physical rape. Not from Paul's pov, he's a scumbag either way, but from Lilia's. Like Mfauli already said, this basically means she's indeed now one of those unrealistic ero-manga women who's raped until she mysterious starts liking it and falls for the faceless rapist.

There are all sorts of broken people even in RL, even women who voluntarily travelled from Western countries to become "wives" for the animals working for Isis, but was it really necessary to make Lilia mental like that? Especially when she otherwise doesn't display deranged behavior (she's even disgusted by Rudy's lecherous looks, yet at the same time she fell for a man who raped her, huh? Huh?). When you look at how she is, you'd think she actually accepted Paul's approach, against her better judgement (made a mistake, like it's called), had to suffer because of it, but still can't forget Paul and thus decided to stay close to him by working in the same adventuring party and then as a maid for his household. Didn't she work in the same party? I seem to recall something like that. This sort of scenario would be perfectly realistic also in RL.

Author is what he is, but perhaps the LN editor (if such a thing exists) should have said something about it. The anime director might have also wanted to spend 20 seconds to think about it.

[Munsu]

Since we're a small group of people watching, any interest in all the passages in LN (in this volume and a future extra chapter)? I can provide it.

If we all can agree on it, despite the spoiler rules (though honestly, not much of a spoiler just different takes on what we've learned so far in the anime all told), I have no problem uploading the screen shots of the passages in the LN translation. But again, we're subjected to that translation's interpretation.

So, what do you guys think? I can also pm it if anyone cares, but if not all agree, can't be discussed in this thread and we'll just let the matter rest and continue with the rest of the show. There's only so much we can discuss on this lol.

Edit: Actually, I'm probably going to take David's suggestion and post it all in the Flame Pit later. And take that discussion there.

Well, let me know either way.

[DarthEnderX]

If it's stuff the anime has already done/passed, I have no problem with you posting images here. But if it's stuff that hasn't happened in the anime yet, I'd rather you guys make a thread in the Manga/Book forum to share it.

[Munsu]

If it's stuff the anime has already done/passed, I have no problem with you posting images here. But if it's stuff that hasn't happened in the anime yet, I'd rather you guys make a thread in the Manga/Book forum to share it.

This is essentially what I have, and I was thinking of you more than anyone as the one who'll object:

Passage of Lilia's POV prior to Rudeus' narration. - It mentions a bit of this event and also touches on why she came here (that last part can be cut off).

Rudeus' narration. - All of the above is in Volume 1, and I doubt we'd get that Lilia POV animated.

There's another Extra chapter that occurs in volume 6, which expands in Lilia's past from her POV (maybe) and it touches on this event once again. I don't know if that will ever get animated, but I was only thinking of posting the passage that pertains to what we're talking about here. Just a couple of sentences really.

I honestly think there's another passage from Paul's POV, but I don't recall it... but I think somewhere along the line we get HIS impression on what occurred that night. We'll have to wait and see.

But I think I'll just do it in the flame pit, not really interested in discussing the LN, just this particular event... more so from how interpretations and translations themselves can vary.

[MFauli]

Yes, I studied Japanese language for one year in Tokyo when I lived as an exchange student there. I also continued my study in my country's University and on my personal time. I did translations for some fansubs back when they were a thing, including Gotwoot Subs, actually. I also translated manga and sound episodes for fun for a while. Since I mostly consume Japanese media, I never really got rusty and only expanded my vocabulary and cultural understanding since.

I am sincerely not backing any argument in the thread. I just felt I needed to provide the most accurate translation of that monologue.

WN means Web Novel, which was the original material from the author until he published it in LN format. WNs are usually hosted in a web novel posting site, and the chapters are usually released one at a time, like a serialized story.

It is also very common for language and story to be toned down in LN vs WN. WNs basically have no editors and very little rules about their content. LNs will have to submit to the rules of the publisher and their market regulations.

Ok, that's nice then to have someone even more knowledgeable here :D

From your experience, does 寝込みを襲う *always* mean rape? Would it never be used in a more playful scenario, like, 2 friends surpring each other, or a child/pet surpring their parents/owner while they're sleeping?

That's how I've used that phrase, and that one dictionary I linked offered that translation, too. That's why I think the anime doesn't necessarily talk about rape, even though there's a good chance it was, but only the LN directly says 無理矢理. Not the anime.

Hope you can clarify that, thx.

[Munsu]

Posted in The Flame Pit, have at it those who want... I think this discussion has being going long enough over here. Hopefully next episode will give us something else to discuss, like Rudeus smelling panties again.

[MFauli]

Hopefully next episode will give us something else to discuss, like Rudeus smelling panties again.

"According to my translation he didn't smell them, he 'inspected' them. That's a big difference there, the former making it sound like he's a pervert, whereas the latter shows that he's probably checking if there's something wrong. Maybe Roxy is sick and he plans to help her."

(yes, I'm making fun of myself here, I'm capable of that 🐧)

[shinta|hikari]

From your experience, does 寝込みを襲う *always* mean rape? Would it never be used in a more playful scenario, like, 2 friends surpring each other, or a child/pet surpring their parents/owner while they're sleeping?

That's how I've used that phrase, and that one dictionary I linked offered that translation, too. That's why I think the anime doesn't necessarily talk about rape, even though there's a good chance it was, but only the LN directly says 無理矢理. Not the anime.

Hope you can clarify that, thx.

I did mention in the first post that this is sometimes used for comedic effect in anime and other Japanese media, but when that occurs, it is typically clear that it is used in jest. So yes, the answer to your question is it can be used in a more playful scenario. A different wording can be "an ambush" or "surprise attack".

However, in the specific scene in the episode in question, this isn't the case. It is very clearly non-consensual, at least from Rudeus's phrasing. As for how Lillia views it herself, no one knows for sure, at least from what was show in this show.

It may very well be that she secretly likes Paul since their youth so she welcomed the advance, but when they were caught by the people of the dojo, Paul was branded as a rapist and chased off. Her current employment and subsequent "seduction" seem to support that.

She may also have forgiven Paul for his crime and eventually came to work for him. Her horniness, which led to the pregnancy, may have no affection behind it either.

[DarthEnderX]

This is essentially what I have, and I was thinking of you more than anyone as the one who'll object:Well most of the people in the thread seem to be reading the LN already.

[Munsu]

Well most of the people in the thread seem to be reading the LN already.

I think I'm the only one, shinta has done the web novel, so he has a gist of it, others seem to have the manga as their source. But since this particular event has already gone beyond the scope of what is expected in an anime only discussion, nothing to be done at this point other than to limit the damage. Particularly with things that are can be heavily influenced by editing and translation liberties. Regardless, thread is up in The Flame Pit for those who want it.

[DarthEnderX]

I think I'm the only one, shinta has done the web novel, so he has a gist of it, others seem to have the manga as their source.Point being, I might be the only anime-only guy here. :p

[Ryllharu]

Point being, I might be the only anime-only guy here. :p

I don't read the manga or novels. It's just obvious to me what they actually meant because I read lots of period-era isekai and "redo" series. The 'villainess' genre is full of 'em.

[Munsu]

Finally watched the episode, I wish the Paul vs Rudeus fight was a bit longer... and maybe have some narration on for the fighting moves and what not. Anyways, awesome beastgirl arrives.

[shinta|hikari]

I don't remember this Beast woman from the WN, but then again I just skimmed through the beginning of that and dropped it due to the horrible translations way back when.

[MFauli]

After further discussion with 2 Japanese experts (the N1-guy and someone who's studying it and married to a Japanese woman), we all three agree that the best translation for 寝込みを襲う is probably that 'he forced himself on her'.

Basically, 'rape' is too strong of a choice, because the way it's portrayed doesn't indicate some violent, desperate struggle. But it's also clear that he overstepped some boundaries and is a pushy idiot. So 'forced himself on her' leaves enough ambiguity without letting him off the hook too easily, until the anime reveals more details about it.

That'd be my last posting about it ... until the anime continues that lol

[Buffalobiian]

I had a patient who didn't want to have sex with her husband but he forces it, so she just takes benzos so she knocks herself out and just accepts whatever he ends up doing to her.

I didn't make this shit up.

Putting it out there that not all rape has the victim constantly peeling themselves away from the assailant and yelling "no" the entire way until someone cums.

[Munsu]

I'll have to recheck, but did Roxy do a no-incantation spell? Or was it a camera trick? I don't recall her being able to learn it while she was teaching Rudy.

[MFauli]

I had a patient who didn't want to have sex with her husband but he forces it, so she just takes benzos so she knocks herself out and just accepts whatever he ends up doing to her.

I didn't make this shit up.

Putting it out there that not all rape has the victim constantly peeling themselves away from the assailant and yelling "no" the entire way until someone cums.

How is that even rape when she repeatedly gets herself into that situation?! Rape entails not having a choice.

[shinta|hikari]

I had a patient who didn't want to have sex with her husband but he forces it, so she just takes benzos so she knocks herself out and just accepts whatever he ends up doing to her.


She took the more palatable alternative. The only way for this situation to not be rape is when the sex she doesn't want doesn't happen.

[MFauli]

She took the more palatable alternative. The only way for this situation to not be rape is when the sex she doesn't want doesn't happen.

Which is entirely HER choice, and she chooses to keep doing this, thus it cannot be rape per definition.

[DarthEnderX]

the best translation for 寝込みを襲う is probably that 'he forced himself on her'.

Basically, 'rape' is too strong of a choiceThat's...literally what "rape" means.

Nevermind Japanese, how's your English?

[MFauli]

That's...literally what "rape" means.

Nevermind Japanese, how's your English?

How's your english? I can force myself upon you without any sexual context.

[Kraco]

Alright, let's leave it at that. I don't feel like deleting posts anymore in this twilight forum, but the couple of lasts posts are a clear indication nothing constructive is going to come out of that line of discussion anymore.

[Kraco]

Episode 5


- - --


An old VN aficionado, such as the MC in his previous life, surely must know how to appreciate a modern, violent tsundere like Eris.

I have no idea if this or the manga was closer to the novel, but I feel like this arc was more balanced in the manga. Several parts felt kind of abrupt here.

[David75]

I don't remember exactly but I think they cramed more than a manga chapter into that ep.
The journey, meeting Ghislaine, then Philip and Eris felt like a whole chapter. Then the whole false, then becomes real kidnapping incident was another. And they are long and detailed chapters. So of course it feels rushed in a single episode.

At least they did not downplay the violence and blood.

[Munsu]

Don't recall, but agreed probably more balanced in both the LN and Manga, but I didn't mind the pace. Loved the violence, and glad to see more action animated.

Ghislaine is awesome.

[MFauli]

Honestly, the cat lady's speed was TOO absurdly high. That sword was already flying, halfway towards Rudy. She came running from a far bigger distance across the house roofs - HOW could she get inbeteen?! LOL

Imagine the sword takes half a second to travel from its thrower to Rudy (it's probably less time). It was at least about 20 meter between the thrower and Rudy. 20 m in half a second. 40 m per second. That's 144 km/h. But again, the sword was already halfway there when we saw her appear in the distance. It looked really far away, so I'll be generous and only triple the distance between Rudy and the thrower, so let's say 60m between cat lady and Rudy. To reach Rudy in half a second, she needs to make 60 meter per half-second, 120 meters per second. That is 432 km/h. HOWEVER, the sword was halfway there when she appeared, so she get's only a quarter second to match the sword hitting its goal. So 60 meters in 0.25 seconds, 120 meters in 0.5 seconds, 240 meters in one second. That makes 864 km/h. She also doesn't wanna match the sword hitting its goal, she wants to intercept, so she needed to be a little faster actually, so let's round it up generously to 900. 900 km/h. That's how fast she was running AT LEAST. Probably even faster, because imo she was farther away than 60 meters when she first appeared.

I mean ... anime and all. But that just made me lol. They should have had her appear BEFORE the guy threw the sword, would have made it more exciting and less absurd.

Anyway, yes, that was the most pressing issue for me :P

[Munsu]

Honestly, the cat lady's speed was TOO absurdly high. That sword was already flying, halfway towards Rudy. She came running from a far bigger distance across the house roofs - HOW could she get inbeteen?! LOL

Imagine the sword takes half a second to travel from its thrower to Rudy (it's probably less time). It was at least about 20 meter between the thrower and Rudy. 20 m in half a second. 40 m per second. That's 144 km/h. But again, the sword was already halfway there when we saw her appear in the distance. It looked really far away, so I'll be generous and only triple the distance between Rudy and the thrower, so let's say 60m between cat lady and Rudy. To reach Rudy in half a second, she needs to make 60 meter per half-second, 120 meters per second. That is 432 km/h. HOWEVER, the sword was halfway there when she appeared, so she get's only a quarter second to match the sword hitting its goal. So 60 meters in 0.25 seconds, 120 meters in 0.5 seconds, 240 meters in one second. That makes 864 km/h. She also doesn't wanna match the sword hitting its goal, she wants to intercept, so she needed to be a little faster actually, so let's round it up generously to 900. 900 km/h. That's how fast she was running AT LEAST. Probably even faster, because imo she was farther away than 60 meters when she first appeared.

I mean ... anime and all. But that just made me lol. They should have had her appear BEFORE the guy threw the sword, would have made it more exciting and less absurd.

Anyway, yes, that was the most pressing issue for me :P

I don't know about your random calculations and what not, but we're in a fantasy world full of magic and skills, to say nothing on what intrinsic characteristics she may have due to being a beastgirl. She was shown how fast she went right when the firework happened, we also saw when she arrived what the state of things were... all those things considered, yes, she's extremely fast. She also broke (vaporized) the sword as it was, we don't even know if it was a long range skill either.

I mean, you also saw how fast she killed those dudes once she got to the ground, almost like time stopped, and they were quite far off from where she was. I don't spot any inconsistencies.

[MFauli]

I don't know about your random calculations and what not, but we're in a fantasy world full of magic and skills, to say nothing on what intrinsic characteristics she may have due to being a beastgirl. She was shown how fast she went right when the firework happened, we also saw when she arrived what the state of things were... all those things considered, yes, she's extremely fast. She also broke (vaporized) the sword as it was, we don't even know if it was a long range skill either.

I mean, you also saw how fast she killed those dudes once she got to the ground, almost like time stopped, and they were quite far off from where she was. I don't spot any inconsistencies.

First of, no "random calculations". That's how you calculate speed. The values are minimum estimates, so even though there's "random", they're probably even more ridiculous.

Secondly: I just couldn't suspend my disbelief here, because she's most likely not using any magic here, right? She's pure, unfiltered physical prowess. In that context, being that fast just won't get any other reaction than "lol" from me ^^

It's not some major issue, I accept that this is just some shitty isekai anime, so don't worry. I will forget about it soon.

On another topic, it felt kinda good to see that girl being beaten up for her obnoxious attitude.

[David75]

Notice the tunnel effect, colors and how Ghislaine effects when she kills the guys. Reminds you of absurd speeds in other anime like Goku's and others.

Tough a little different there's a program out there showing what you see from the world and how it gets distorted as you approach lightspeed (in fact causality speed, but doesn't matter here)

As Munsu said, we know nothing of Ghislaine stats.

[Munsu]

First of, no "random calculations". That's how you calculate speed. The values are minimum estimates, so even though there's "random", they're probably even more ridiculous.

Secondly: I just couldn't suspend my disbelief here, because she's most likely not using any magic here, right? She's pure, unfiltered physical prowess. In that context, being that fast just won't get any other reaction than "lol" from me ^^

It's not some major issue, I accept that this is just some shitty isekai anime, so don't worry. I will forget about it soon.

On another topic, it felt kinda good to see that girl being beaten up for her obnoxious attitude.

It's random because you're allocating random hypothetical values, and extrapolating from there. And she didn't need to use magic, I'm just saying we're in world that has that AND skills. We've seen Paul fight (probably not full strength against his son) using sword arts and how he does things not explainable just by pure physical prowess, and in the letter it's mentioned she's a Sword King. That should give you some idea on her capabilities, to say nothing of what being a beastgirl could bring into the equation.

And you're taking the scenes to having been occurred chronically, which is the main problem you have here. If you're easy to use hypotheticals for imagined speed of things, in this world, you can also easily imagine that the scene weren't chronological... she made it a point to say she began travelling (and saw how fast she was going back then) as soon as she saw the fireworks and some time passed between that AND when the sword was thrown.

As I mentioned, we SAW when she arrived and the state of things and how things were moving vs the speed she was deploying, and once again I point out how quickly she killed the other guys were at quite a distance. Also Rudeus himself is moving quite fast away from the sword so that buys some time from the time she arrived.

Anyways, don't think there's much to discuss here on that regard.

[DarthEnderX]

Lol, "Money can't buy dere."



I just couldn't suspend my disbelief here, because she's most likely not using any magic here, right? She's pure, unfiltered physical prowess.It's probably Ki.

[Buffalobiian]

"Holy shit that guy kicked her teeth out. Good acting"

Hahaha, come on xD.

[Kraco]

"Holy shit that guy kicked her teeth out. Good acting"

Hahaha, come on xD.

To be fair, there would have been a queue around a city block if they had announced everyone Eris has annoyed or abused would get to kick her in the face once.

[neflight86]

Putting aside that her father agreed to a plan having his own daughter 'fake kidnapped', I'm surprised they weren't more closely monitored by other members of the staff, notably the beast lady. Seems like a bit of an oversight.

Rudy's first encounter with tsun-tsun went about as well as that sort of meeting could have, and it was a delight to watch. It was essentially a deconstruction where someone with magical powers was pitted against a petulant brat with extreme entitlement and social autism. And of course, no one but a depraved, isekai'ed otaku could find that behavior appealing in the slightest, so I'll call that providence her previous teachers didn't have.

Paul, are there any women in your life you didn't defeat in bed?

[Kraco]

And of course, no one but a depraved, isekai'ed otaku could find that behavior appealing in the slightest, so I'll call that providence her previous teachers didn't have.

When he ran away, I'd say he would have liked to abandon the mission if not for his pride. He didn't want to return back home in defeat, especially when he himself has asked for an opportunity to work. But yeah, he still was attracted to her like only a veteran of many a VN would be. Although I imagine getting punched multiple times in the face in reality would remove any illusions about a violent tsundere being cute even during the bouts of physical violence. It's not a game anymore at that point. The only ray of hope would be what he told the kidnappers: He can aim for the dere.

[shinta|hikari]

What kind of worthless parenting would Eris had to have had in order to end up that spoiled rotten, arrogant, and worst of all, deluded?

Oh she was a Greyrat. Usurname checks out.

[KrayZ33]

Sweet!

I'm so glad we are getting a second season of this in summer.

I hope they actually show a bit of the teaching and won't just make a 3 year time-skip in one episode.
Eris needs some proper build up to not remain a complete bitch forever.

[Kraco]

Episode 6


- - - - -


Spilling the medicine, what a waste.

I can't say this episode would have progressed the story all that much, but I guess it was needed to show what kind of life Rudeus lives in that city. It can't be all kidnappers every week, after all. I feel like Eris should be a highly annoying character, but I can't make myself hate her. She has got a real personality, develops steadily if slowly, and doesn't seem to be like she is just for the sake of filling a certain character slot. It's good to see Rudeus's words have a real effect on her.

I feel like the sleep molestation scene wasn't needed, though. Sure, Rudeus is a Grayrat and they are all perverted, at least the male members, but the dude should know where to draw a line with his abnormally long life experience. I suppose he must have been able to judge it wouldn't damage his position in the household.

[Ryllharu]

At least Eris kicked the shit out of him for it.

This was a really weird tone shift for the series as a whole in my opinion. Like the whole grandfather scenes, and the kemonomimi emulation family tradition.

It felt more like an end of volume bonus chapter in a manga.

Ghislaine's enthusiasm to learn math and economics is cute though. Sounds like she had it rough after Zenith left until she eventually found a bodyguard job. Getting ripped off constantly on jobs and left starving.

[MFauli]

Aaand I will now enjoy the idiotic outrage reactions online, because those are guaranteed today :D Eris is ... 12, right?

Ahahaha ...

PS: Yeah, bit of a whatever-episode, but I enjoy some slice of life, and maybe it's the quiet before the storm next week.

[David75]

Well, it's very close to how it was in the manga.
The protagonist is a pervert and a molester only saved a little by is underage body. Because he would get scolded almost anywhere IRL.
Knowing he has his old 37 to 40+ mind/experience adds weight to his acts for the viewers.

[Buffalobiian]

Yeah, that underwear removing scene was just... bad.

Being a 12yo doesn't make it okay either. No matter your age, once you have enough insight to know what sex and shame is, removing underwear from a girl is tasteless sexual harassment. I find it quite jarring that despite his being someone who suffered through humiliation and pants-stripping, Rudy is quite okay with sexually harassing women whenever the opportunity arises.

[DarthEnderX]

I want to complain but...it's just gonna be the same things every week. We know what this show is now. Let's talk the other stuff.

Unfortunately...nothing else happened this episode.

[MFauli]

To add something meaningful:

The issue with the groping scene isn't that it happens. Issue is that it didnt add ANYTHING to the story. Like, nothing at all.

It doesnt lead Rudy to some self-reflection afterwards.
It doesnt lead to him getting punished for it.
On the flipside, it also doesnt show us any, from Rudy's pov, positive developments.

It just happens, and the only one who reflects on it are us immaterial watchers.

These sexual deviant scenes could be meaningful if SOMETHING came from it, whether that'd be negative or positive for Rudy (I wouldn't want it to become a moral lessons-anime). But these scenes could be removed and the rest of the episode would proceed without any worsening.

Honestly, I think all the praise about this being the godfather of isekai has clouded what that anime truly is: ecchi trash. The only reason people dont realize that is that Redo of Healer draws away all the attention, and it takes underage groping to take back a little of that attention.

Nah, at the end of the day, Mushoku Tensei is a trash-ecchi isekai anime that happens to also tell a good story and was given a nice animation budget. But it's not some masterpiece. Unnecessary scenes like this or the casual 'let's sell a 7yo boy an aphrodisiac!!1' scene prove it.

[Buffalobiian]

If he kept to inner monologue only (maybe with less frequent disgusting-face), it'd be so much better. Kyon's voice can pull off any deadpan sexual comment. His acts are what put this into gutter territory stuff that prevents me from recommending this to friends/family as good anime in general.

I quite liked the money talk this episode. It put prices into perspective, and Paul really isn't all that well off compared to his bigshot family members. It entertains me that someone inadvertently burns him when whenever they say "You're polite for Paul's kid."

[Munsu]

Very interesting how this was portrayed in the anime.

First, I'm convinced the the English licensor of the LN is censoring a lot of the content... in my opinion for the better (and I'm heavily against censorship). In English, we only see a misunderstanding of him trying to fix her shirt better so she doesn't catch a cold, and as he's doing that she wakes up and hits him. But now that we have the anime, it's jarring to see the differences even when you KNEW the character was a perv, just not this big of a one.

Now, in the original source (at least WN version), we see this dynamic as well, but as he's fixing her shirt he seems to touch her boobs, not on purpose necessarily at first, but cups a feel to see how she's developing almost in a clinical way and of course enjoys it for a bit. (Relying on Google Translate here)

Worth mentioning that her navel was showing so that's why he did what he did, in the anime we don't see her exposed like that.

So I didn't gather he went to touch the boobs at first, but to fix her clothing, but that once he touched them he lingered. There may be a nuance I'm missing, it could very well be that it was just a pretext for him to indeed go in a touch her boobs as his primordial intentions.

As for the panties part, it didn't seem like he went as far as the anime showed, but nothing worth mentioning. That part was missing altogether in the English LN version.

I'm not sure if panties is the correct translation, instead of "pants". Like if it's pants, it can be seen as a bit of a prank, but panties is something more sick. But, he was doing something pervy regardless if we go by his expression.

Then we have the scene that occurred with Sylphiette, he seemed a bit traumatized by that if I recall, so I don't see how he could be so ready to remove someone's panties.

That said, I agree Buff... it would be better if it was limited to the monologue inside his head, but the perv facial expressions that the animation team decided on. But again, some nuance of how it's portrayed in Japanese may be missing.

Most of the context in this scene is about waking her up, like in a "you shouldn't fall asleep this way in here since bad guys can take advantage of you if you do", at least that was my impression, but of course... he played that role, enjoyed himself since she wouldn't wake up doing something downright fucked up and then got caught. This is a recurring theme we'll see, and agree with MFauli the lack of introspection on the actions here made it a pointless scene. In a way I'm glad I read the official LN in English and not the WN translations which would make me hard to stomach Rudeus.

TL;DR: I think he did some pervy things, but the anime made it more pervy than it was even in the original because it's missing some context. The LN English adaptation censored this scene.


That's all I'll say on this regard.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------



Of course, Eris beating the shit out of him right afterwards was GOLD!

One thing about this series I really like is the OP song, in a way I very much lament we don't have a proper OP scene to enjoy the song on each episode, but at the same time they put that time to good use bringing us more content, so can't complain.

Ghislaine is awesome.

And LOL at the pose this family uses to asks for favors. Completely out of left field.

Also, glad to see this anime as some details are mentioned in passing that are also mentioned in passing in future volumes, but I had completely forgotten about them, so it helps me connect the dots. Not very important details, but just adds a bit to future scenes that I was missing some of the context on.

[DarthEnderX]

I actually got the impression from the anime that she was actually a bit pleased that he was interested in her, but she still doled out an ass beating because tsundere gotta tsundere.


That's all I'll say on this regard.Is it? Are you SURE you couldn't squeeze out a few more paragraphs?

[Munsu]

I actually got the impression from the anime that she was actually a bit pleased that he was interested in her, but she still doled out an ass beating because tsundere gotta tsundere.

Not sure, but it was indeed odd that she didn't wake up through all of that. But sure, I think she's liking his attention as time goes by, and probably felt pleased after the fact.


Is it? Are you SURE you couldn't squeeze out a few more paragraphs?

Well, only interested in mentioning the differences I perceived in the different mediums and keep noticing that the English LN censored a lot of the content, which I only come to appreciate now. At first I thought the Japanese LN changed some of these aspects from the original source, but I think the English versions is going even further than what the official LN published.

Don't care to delve again into the discussion of morality, ethics, etc. again. But I'll say he's coming as much more of a creep at times than what I envisioned when I first read through this in the official LN translation.

[MFauli]

Honestly, Munsu, I find how you describe the WN version even worse than the anime. In the anime, he's just a pervert. In the WN, as you describe, he's a pervert, too, BUT he excuses his own misbehavior ('clinical').

At the end of the day, either is too crass.

However, I disagree that it'd be better if it was cut. Censorship is always bad.

That said, as I mentioned before, I'd prefer if there was MEANING to these ecchi scenes. Even if he was a sex-criminal, that'd be ok, a story can happen from there. But just showing that shit, no context, only makes it fanservice. Fanservice for loli fans :/

[Munsu]

Honestly, Munsu, I find how you describe the WN version even worse than the anime. In the anime, he's just a pervert. In the WN, as you describe, he's a pervert, too, BUT he excuses his own misbehavior ('clinical').

He's not excusing it anymore than the anime is, that part is mentioned in the anime, when he's describing the boobs, he's just not salivating over it with that perv face on. That's what I meant. It's not about excusing, but on the level he's portrayed enjoying it... though he DOES enjoy it. But I may be missing Japanese nuances and tone.

Whatever it's a shitty scene.

[MFauli]

Whatever it's a shitty scene.

It really is, and I feel a lot of people don't understand how shitty this anime in its entirety is. Mushoku hides its true degeneracy beneath layers of seemingly good parts, but scenes such as the meaningless groping of a 12yo girl show its true colors. This is the same as Redo of Healer, just with more pretense. That's prolly also why there's a tangible lack of outrage against Redo, whereas I've enjoyed a lot of outrage against Mushoku yesterday and today. This anime tricked people, and now it's revealing itself.

The people being all "this is the godfather of isekai, it's a masterpiece", are real shitheads, lol.

[Ryllharu]

While I have a lot of issues with the...overtness of the perviness, I would not say this is remotely in the same range as most isekai. It's very clearly in the upper 5% of isekai, and does seem to deserve quite a bit of the reputation it has built up.

Is it the "godfather of isekai?" Fuck no. That belongs to Fushigi Yugi and Escaflowne, and pretty blatantly. I might give it credit for doing the power fantasy isekai well, or the life-redo generally pretty well. The shoujo and josei life-redo series are much better.

Is Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari better on the balance of the pervy angle? Yes.

But what Mushoku Tensei does right is character development and worldbuilding. It isn't that the male side of the Greyrat family of degenerates. It's that they all constantly have moments of introspection, reflection, and generally positive growth. It's that Rudy is discovering the wonders of this new world, trying to improve and succeed where he failed horribly before in his old life. He's taken up responsibilities and has real goals that he's acting on.

He doesn't squirrel his newfound knowledge and pro-casting abilities away. He taught Sylphie, tried to teach Roxy, deliberately did not teach Eris to cast silently, and is trying to be equally focused on giving Eris a well-rounded education. He sucked at swordplay, tried to give up in front of his father dozens of times, and now that Eris is beating the shit out of him consistently, he's stopped giving up. He stopped trying to cheat.

He went from a shut in, to a shy child, to finally seeking new friends and scenery. He got stuck on his little girlfriend before his parents found a way to make him keep that momentum going to explore and widen his horizons. He could have gone back. He has the power to do so. He could have abandoned Eris and given up on his goal of funding his education and Sylphie's. But he didn't. He's stuck with something.

That's all growth.

And that is what so many other dreadful isekai and life-redo series fail to ever achieve. They give the hero-protagonist all the power they could ever want, and nothing is ever hard for them ever. Or Everything's Hard at first, but they awaken a secret power they never knew.

Rudy has all the power he could ever need. He's probably on the fast track to OP. But his issues, his growth, are all personal.

Compare it to other series, especially the "good" ones:
Seikishi Monogatari - Kenshi is insanely overpowered, and has very little, if any, character growth. It's all the girls who do instead.
No Game No Life - Sora and Shiro don't really change. Their journey is more exploration focused.
Youjo Senki - Tanya stubbornly learns nothing through being brought to the new world, even as a newborn too.
Re: Zero - Subaru's personality seems to reset with ever arc too.
Zero no Tsukaima - Saito is still the pervy moron, but oh wow, he's slightly more responsible and courageous...sometimes.
Overlord - No character growth anywhere to be seen.
KonoSuba - I guess this one actually works because they generally don't change and are always terrible people, and that's kind of the point.
Shield Hero - Actually one of the exceptions, until later.
Fushigi Yugi - Honestly it is mostly Yui and not Maika who has character development.
Slime - Yeah, there's really not, at least so far.

[Munsu]

The question is, are they selling in real life the figurines that Rudeus is crafting?

[DarthEnderX]

Is it the "godfather of isekai?" Fuck no. That belongs to Fushigi Yugi and Escaflowne, and pretty blatantly..I think when people call this the "godfather of isekai" they mean "godfather of isekia where you're basically in a JRPG".

If we're literally just talking "other world" stories we gotta go back to Oz or Narnia or some shit. :p

[Buffalobiian]

The question is, are they selling in real life the figurines that Rudeus is crafting?

Not yet.

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_c=101&cat=figure&target=Serieshin&searchkey=Mushoku+Tensei%3a+Jobless+Reincarnation

[KrayZ33]

The people being all "this is the godfather of isekai, it's a masterpiece", are real shitheads, lol.

I don't know why you are trying to hate on this show.
This show is clearly better than 99% of the rest in pretty much every area whatsoever.
The fact that there are shitty and sometimes unnecessary "pervert baka hentai" scenes doesn't really devalue it by much, considering that it's hardly the focus of this show and does not take up much screentime either.

The sad truth is that this is also generic anime humor. Just like phyiscal violence is used for comedic effect
So while it's fucking dumb it's still used as humor and as shown during the scene with Roxy we kinda get the drift that he wouldn't really truely do anything serious if the other person doesn't want it.
You can also talk about how MC is "40 years old in his head" - but even that doesn't really matter much when he also nearly cried because his parents thought he did wet his bed when he did some water magic.

The good truth is that "ecchi" scenes like the one with Paul and the Maid actually lead to something that is also seriously discussed in the story, that lead to further character development. Although I can hardly judge that as "ecchi" in the first place.

We can't really compare this to shit like "handy isekai" or "arifureta" (or whatever that was called). If you want to or do, I'd have to question your ability to judge something objectively.

It's also much better balanced overall (so far) than stuff like Slime-Isekai which shows that it's ahead of the mediocre-range too.
We don't even have to just reduce it to Isekai because the Isekai aspect of it all is rather small in the first place. It's a good fantasy world that feels alive right now.

[MFauli]

I don't know why you are trying to hate on this show.
This show is clearly better than 99% of the rest in pretty much every area whatsoever.
The fact that there are shitty and sometimes unnecessary "pervert baka hentai" scenes doesn't really devalue it by much, considering that it's hardly the focus of this show and does not take up much screentime either.

The sad truth is that this is also generic anime humor. Just like phyiscal violence is used for comedic effect

The good truth is that "ecchi" scenes like the one with Paul and the Maid actually lead to something that is also seriously discussed in the story, that lead to further character development. Although I can hardly judge that as "ecchi" in the first place.

We can't really compare this to shit like "handy isekai" or "arifureta" (or whatever that was called). If you want to or do, I'd have to question your ability to judge something objectively.

It's also much better balanced overall (so far) than stuff like Slime-Isekai which shows that it's ahead of the mediocre-range too.
We don't even have to just reduce it to Isekai because the Isekai aspect of it all is rather small in the first place. It's a good fantasy world that feels alive right now.

Is it, though? That's exactly what I'm questioning.

You say the ecchi scenes lead to something. Really? We've talked about the pointless groping of Eris. The merchant selling an aphrodisiac to a 7yo, explaining in detail what it does, had no consequences for the merchant. And what did Paul's cheating (and potential rape) lead to? An unrealistic harem of 2 wives that took his wive to make the humiliating choice of accepting the situation. When Rudy undressed Sylphie, not only was he dumb to not realize she was a girl: he had no business there undressing her, girl OR boy. And the only consequence happened because she was a girl. Imagine she'd been a boy: Rudy would probably feel zero remorse about forcibly undressing 'him' then. Then you still have the undisclosed rape of Klaus, who's victim works as his maid and is pregnant from him. And the latest of Paul'a: he 'defeated' the wolf warrior 'only in bed'. Leaving aside that this both sounds rapey again and puts to question his fidelity to Zenith again: why brag about it like that to your 7yo son? It's pure smut at that point.

That's why I think you and others let yourself trick by the non-ecchi parts. I don't see the fantastic 'development' you talk about. What I see is unrealistic progression based on ecchi actions. But it hides itself just enough to fly under most people's radar.

[KrayZ33]

You say the ecchi scenes lead to something. Really?

How about you read what I wrote?
It's really not fun discussing this if you fail at doing that.

I gave you a specific "ecchi" scene. I didn't oversimplify everything I didn't make a general statment that will cover "all scenes and every scene we haven't seen yet"


And what did Paul's cheating (and potential rape) lead to? An unrealistic harem of 2 wives that took his wive to make the humiliating choice of accepting the situation.

Unrealistic?
Jesus christ. And the fact that she made that humiliating choice is exactly what I'm talking about.
Do you think she took that lightly? Considering that like 5 whole minutes or so were dedicated to this and portrayed in a very gloomy atmosphere?
She was about to end everything just there.
Rudy was the reason she did not.
Her not wanting the maid AND her child to die was what made her choose this over the other.

Why do you ignore something so important just to forward a stupid agenda of some kind. I don't get it.
It's really below me.

Do you think there is a "correct way" to resolve this situation?
If so, how and why. This is something even modern day people can't solve without feelings involved.
Not every betrayal is met instantly with a break up.
Considering we are looking at a medieval setting here, even less likely during that time.

If you talk about Paul's past, do you honestly think his wife doesn't or didn't know how he ticks?
They went adventuring together. Obviously she was not the only girl in the party, obviously he also made out with the beast girl, as we all know by now.
Seems more like she somehow made the "bad boy" stay with her and hoped he would stop adultering when she can occupy him, but it seems like his libido is stronger.
Maybe that's also why she could make a decision like that - since she knew how Paul is. Obviously he is a beast and degenerate, but even these people have family. And again... all that talk I did just now comes from all these "ecchi" and ero talk we are hearing about. And it's not like Paul would throw any of his wives and girls into the gutter just like that. He traveled and lived together with them for a while. He has some standards too and is usually trying to be a good guy.
Even the maid thought that she isn't all that innocent, so once again, obviously there is something to Paul that attracts the other sex. He is good looking, well build, young and attractive and basically a noble after all. And also kind.

That scene was not something without any meaning.
You can also look at Roxy here who is like.... training the 7th prince of XYZ in magic. Very unlikely that these kids are all from 1 wife, you know?

edit: but this is already more than I was willing to write about this "issue".
I'm trying to enjoy anime and I will obviously put thing X about Y because I'm having preferences, But some things are just objectively better and more well done than others. And this is without question one of the better animes, not just better Isekais. I wouldn't really call any anime a masterpiece (or perfect in every way) because literally every anime has shit in it and sometimes that shit is actually needed to advance and tell a proper story. I don't know any masterpiece movies either, so I don't know what the general requirements are for something to call that.
If someone doesn't see a masterpiece as "perfect" but just as something very good, I guess this show is pretty close to it.

[Kraco]

That's why I think you and others let yourself trick by the non-ecchi parts. I don't see the fantastic 'development' you talk about. What I see is unrealistic progression based on ecchi actions. But it hides itself just enough to fly under most people's radar.

Aren't you mighty, to see what others can't see. It just makes me think you haven't read nearly enough isekai to think this isn't above the gray mass of trash that forms the bulk of it. The usual isekai series is an instantly OP dude with a harem flocking around him. That's it, the whole thing. Mushoku Tensei at least tries to write the characters well, with all of their numerous flaws, if there's a harem developing, it's taking a whole lot of time developing, plus the girls have their own lives and try chase those lives. Roxy is gone, Sylhie is gone. We are six episodes in, and there's no comically evil nobleman or utterly corrupt religious organisation modeled after the Christian church. The MC hasn't hurried to buy his first female slave.

I've said it before, but the ecchi scenes before were needed. I also said I felt like groping Eris wasn't needed anymore, but I guess the author felt otherwise. The MC is a broken person due to his previous life, so it makes sense he's not instantly healed into a perfect Buddha, especially since his old man in this life is a pervert as well.

I don't consider this series any masterpiece whatsoever, but it's quite a bit above the usual trash isekai (which I still read). It makes a real effort to try to be a bit different and develop stuff in a more or less believable manner. It's not so hard to impress me, though. Is this as good as some non-isekai fantasy like Helck? Hell, no, but this is quite decent.

Btw, the merchant tried to sell the drug to Rudeus because merchants sell stuff. That's their profession. He asked if Rudeus is from the Greyrat manor, which basically is the same as asking whether Rudeus is a pervert.

[MFauli]

How about you read what I wrote?
It's really not fun discussing this if you fail at doing that.

I gave you a specific "ecchi" scene. I didn't oversimplify everything I didn't make a general statment that will cover "all scenes and every scene we haven't seen yet"



Unrealistic?
Jesus christ. And the fact that she made that humiliating choice is exactly what I'm talking about.
Do you think she took that lightly? Considering that like 5 whole minutes or so were dedicated to this and portrayed in a very gloomy atmosphere?
She was about to end everything just there.
Rudy was the reason she did not.
Her not wanting the maid AND her child to die was what made her choose this over the other.

Why do you ignore something so important just to forward a stupid agenda of some kind. I don't get it.
It's really below me.

Do you think there is a "correct way" to resolve this situation?
If so, how and why. This is something even modern day people can't solve without feelings involved.
Not every betrayal is met instantly with a break up.
Considering we are looking at a medieval setting here, even less likely during that time.

If you talk about Paul's past, do you honestly think his wife doesn't or didn't know how he ticks?
They went adventuring together. Obviously she was not the only girl in the party, obviously he also made out with the beast girl, as we all know by now.
Seems more like she somehow made the "bad boy" stay with her and hoped he would stop adultering when she can occupy him, but it seems like his libido is stronger.
Maybe that's also why she could make a decision like that - since she knew how Paul is. Obviously he is a beast and degenerate, but even these people have family. And again... all that talk I did just now comes from all these "ecchi" and ero talk we are hearing about. And it's not like Paul would throw any of his wives and girls into the gutter just like that. He traveled and lived together with them for a while. He has some standards too and is usually trying to be a good guy.
Even the maid thought that she isn't all that innocent, so once again, obviously there is something to Paul that attracts the other sex. He is good looking, well build, young and attractive and basically a noble after all. And also kind.

That scene was not something without any meaning.
You can also look at Roxy here who is like.... training the 7th prince of XYZ in magic. Very unlikely that these kids are all from 1 wife, you know?

edit: but this is already more than I was willing to write about this "issue".
I'm trying to enjoy anime and I will obviously put thing X about Y because I'm having preferences, But some things are just objectively better and more well done than others. And this is without question one of the better animes, not just better Isekais. I wouldn't really call any anime a masterpiece (or perfect in every way) because literally every anime has shit in it and sometimes that shit is actually needed to advance and tell a proper story. I don't know any masterpiece movies either, so I don't know what the general requirements are for something to call that.
If someone doesn't see a masterpiece as "perfect" but just as something very good, I guess this show is pretty close to it.

You'll be upset, but: You're just making flimsy excuses for dumb ecchi shit.

Yes, Zenith was gloomy for one scene in which she DIDNT interact with her husband. Then timeskip and she's all smiley-smiley with her daughter and the daughter of her companion-wife. In all these scenes, not ONCE die she interact with Paul, her husband. THAT would have been meaningful and potential development. Because that's the part that matters. How did they go on to life together? Has she forgiven him? Do they share the same bed again? Is the maid now wife #2 or is she off-limits? Is Paul truly faithful now or is he not? (his proud comment about defeating wolf warrior in bed makes this doubtful). Basically everything that would have been meaningful development didn't happen. What we see is the aftermath of a generic hentai: Guy ends up with two hot girls. Kewl.

Then you have Roxy being groped by the rich kid and not react to it emotionally. That's on the same level as the merchant in last episode. All I can conclude from that is that this WHOLE world is full of ecchi, and that this behavior is normal there. But the only way to accept that is by acknowledging that this is a dumb ecchi-anime, because if you wanted to depict REAL medieval times, you'd have to portray all the sex-related mischief as more negative. Mushoku doesn't do this, however, it's all "funny" or otherwise inconsequential.

This goes to Kraco, as well:
I know that there are other, worse Isekai shows. I've seen too many. I am enjoying Mushoku. But I can enjoy an ecchi isekai AND acknowledge its shortcomings. Is this only better than other trash, or is it a good fantasy anime? Because imo it's definitely not the latter. When I think of good fantasy anime, I think of Record of Lodoss War. And if you want to claim that Mushoku is anywhere near Lodoss' quality, then you're clinically insane. So at best this anime is better than, say, Smartphone Isekai. Cool. But that doesn't mean it's "good". I'm enjoying it while it's airing, but I'll probably never rewatch it. Afterwards, I'll slowly forget about it, maybe not, but only because of the controvery it arose. Meanwhile isekai like Re:Zero or SAO (the beginning) will always stay with me and I'll rewatch them because they're bonafide GOOD. Shows like Kumo Isekai might join that rank, Overlord getting nowhere in S3 is leaving it.

Ask yourself this: Would Mushoku be any worse if ALL the ecchi scenes (not counting the flashback to his old life) were missing? I can answer that with a definite NO. If the author wanted to portray Rudy's struggle with old, nasty habits, he could have done that A ) all inside his head, and B) without the cringe hentai-grin. Rudy is voiced by frikkin Kon's voice actor, WHO BETTER would be able to act the thoughts of a distressed mind?! No need to show and act out any criminal pervert scenes, just have Kon argue with himself. It was such an obvious choice, but instead they give Rudy a cheap pervert grin. sigh

Again, because I want to make this clear: I'm mostly enjoying this anime. And I'm okay with degenerate scenes, with ecchi, with gratuitous rape, with any heinous shit. I'm 100% against censorship and pro-creative freedom. But: I want it to make sense. That's what makes a good story. Internal logic. And Mushoku is missing that internal logic whenever it tells us anything ecchi. You know what would have been more meaningful and thus better? If Rudy had full-on raped Eris. Rape her, satisfy his own nasty urges. Then afterwards DEAL WITH IT. Show us what it did to Eris (and no, not in the Zenith-way of showing her all happy and fallen in love with her rapist ...). Show us how she lost all her confidence suddenly and is shy and such. Show us Rudy feeling miserable about what he did and how he intends to make up for it (admit his crime and go to prison/execution? Be sent on a punishing mission? Avoiding punishment, but ask for Eris forgiving + maybe taking responsibility and marry her? Etc, etc.. ). THAT would be meaningful development. When the merchant offers him an aphrodisiac, have Rudy make a loud scene how dare that old man tell a 7yo kid about sex and stuff!!1, like that.

This is what makes all this dumb ecchi scenes so frustrating: There's so much potential for a good story, for good development. But it never happens.


Btw, the merchant tried to sell the drug to Rudeus because merchants sell stuff. That's their profession. He asked if Rudeus is from the Greyrat manor, which basically is the same as asking whether Rudeus is a pervert.

That's why he explained in detail to a 7yo boy how he'd be able to "thrust it into a woman 10 times!!1", eh?

[KrayZ33]

You'll be upset, but: You're just making flimsy excuses for dumb ecchi shit.

Yes, Zenith was gloomy for one scene in which she DIDNT interact with her husband. Then timeskip and she's all smiley-smiley with her daughter and the daughter of her companion-wife. In all these scenes, not ONCE die she interact with Paul, her husband. THAT would have been meaningful and potential development. Because that's the part that matters. How did they go on to life together? Has she forgiven him? Do they share the same bed again? Is the maid now wife #2 or is she off-limits? Is Paul truly faithful now or is he not? (his proud comment about defeating wolf warrior in bed makes this doubtful). Basically everything that would have been meaningful development didn't happen. What we see is the aftermath of a generic hentai: Guy ends up with two hot girls. Kewl.

Then watch a show that is dedicated to Zenith and Paul.

They are side characters - wtf are you talking about?
You don't dedicate a season worth of episodes to side characters.

We saw what happened, we know how everyone reacted, we know Zenith forgave Paul.
It doesn't fucking *matter* if they still sleep in the same bed or not, or rather; we don't need to see the discussion about that at all. We got the scene where they worked it out and we could clearly see that they remained together as a family and that Paul sees both children as equals and that Zenith and the Maid are now raising their children together
How dense do people have to be to not understand that with what was being shown?

Seriously? Why do you even want to see that in such detail when the show itself found a much better way to portray it with a timeskip alongside it that progressed the story at the same time

Do you have to explicitly see stuff to understand it? Do you not use your brain for a second when you watch movies or read books or do whatever?
Try adding 1 and 1 together for once.

Good story telling doesn't mean you have to show every single discussion and scene. It's probably the opposite.
When Rudy comes back from his adventure, maybe Paul gets into trouble again, that's when you will know that he still hasn't learned anything. But right now you saw what has happened, you saw the consequences, you saw how Zenith forgave him and how Paul plays the Daddy role for both and how both women are obviously the caretaker and Paul is just the usual male parent that wants to "play with their kids" but not actually do any housework etc.



Ask yourself this: Would Mushoku be any worse if ALL the ecchi scenes (not counting the flashback to his old life) were missing? I can answer that with a definite NO.

I don't know what you consider as "ecchi".
If you are talking about the maid scene for example, then hell yeah, it would be worse. Or lets say... it would be different and the story would be too.
I'd even say that Roxy sitting on the floor and pleasuring herself had some meaning to it.
It could obviously go without? Yes? But does it have to? Why?
It tells me Roxy is interested in these things, probably interested in Paul too actually.
All kinds of possibilities are open there.
She could even have left the houshold due to her romantic interest in Paul.

I also think that these shows could go without "violently hitting MC in the face when he accidently sees the female-MCs pantsu" but it's funny when it's done right, so who gives a fuck.

The fact remains that these girls aren't just hanging around MC's dick for no reason and don't go out of their way to do stupid shit all the time.
The fact remains that most of the stuff is very believable and that the side characters are getting developed alongside MC properly with or without these scenes. So what's your point.

Just because it has "ecchi" in it doesn't make it "ecchi-trash".
It's "ecchi-trash" when there is nothing but "ecchi" in it and the story goes out of its way to make the next pantsu-scene possible. Rudy actually faces issues he has to conquer and defeat and overcome, both phyiscally and mentally, not just enemies he has to defeat with his god given power and his perfectly humble personality etc..
Zenith has had to overcome her pride and maybe lost her trust in Paul we don't know yet. We don't have to know
What I can say for certain however is that she didn't take it lightly like in your usual scene:

*MC-Harem girl 1 sees MC-Harem girl 2 kiss MC*
"Baka... He's mine, it's unfair, please kiss me too now - it's only fair" - You know... like in this fucking other fantasy-level-up Anime this season where MC gets lifeforce power by kissing his harem and doing lewd shit with them, so that he can create new "skills".

You really want to compare these scenes and this show in general to *that* bullshit?
Really? I'm seriously somewhat angry if you do and just about to drop any future discussion with you forever. Not because I like *this* particular anime, but because it's just *dumb*. Honestly and *truely* dumb. Like... talking, discussing and arguing about things with Donald Trump-dumb. It's such a waste of my and everyone elses time you know? It has no basis whatsoever. As silly as this sounds, but if you just focus on the ecchi stuff, which you really don't have to do in this show at *all* because it's such a minor point in the first place, it's *miles* apart in terms of quality when it comes to every single situation compared to your usual ecchi scene.
It's almost insulting actually if it weren't so trivial in the first place... but I'm also not really happy about wasting time with troll posts and comparisons like that. You know, it's just better to not talk about that stuff at all, that'd be better than making hollow points like "this is just like any other trash isekai" when it so obviously isn't and we have an example or two every-single-season that show the exact opposite.

I can totally tell that you are in for some kind of revenge-posting because "Redo of Healer" got bashed for what it is and if you just do it because you are angry about it, I'll actually cover you and say that the show, aside from the obvious hentai scenes that are just there to pleasure the viewer and to get him to *jerk off*, is actually decent enough to be interesting from a story point of view. But then again, that's just about it... his "healing power" is obviously bullshit from every angle you look at it and that alone already shows how this show here is different from the usual isekai/fantasy/power-up trope bullshit.

I have no doubt in my mind that we'll get to see the usual harem stuff like that in the future because all animes will eventually show anime-tropes. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong and we actually don't.
So far at least we have not really gone so far in that territory at least.

edit: typos

[MFauli]

Then watch a show that is dedicated to Zenith and Paul.

They are side characters - wtf are you talking about?
You don't dedicated a season worth of episodes to side characters.

We saw what happened, we know how everyone reacted, we know Zenith forgave Paul.
It doesn't fucking *matter* if they still sleep in the same bed or not. We got the scene where they worked it out and we could clearly see that they remained together as a family.
How dense do people have to be to not understand that?
Seriously? Why do you even want to see that?

Do you have to explicitly see stuff to understand it? Do you not use your brain for a second when you watch movies or read books or do whatever?

Jeez.

What we got was the ecchi part. We got the h-doujin portion. All the potentially meaningful development stuff, that was omitted. That's what I'm criticizing, Kray.

[Kraco]

All I can conclude from that is that this WHOLE world is full of ecchi, and that this behavior is normal there. But the only way to accept that is by acknowledging that this is a dumb ecchi-anime, because if you wanted to depict REAL medieval times, you'd have to portray all the sex-related mischief as more negative. Mushoku doesn't do this, however, it's all "funny" or otherwise inconsequential.

This is still a story created by the entertainment industry. What you are saying basically equals to 95% of Hollywood action movies ending prematurely because the action hero actually was, mysteriously, unable to take out 50 enemies all on his own and thus he died. The end.


Ask yourself this: Would Mushoku be any worse if ALL the ecchi scenes (not counting the flashback to his old life) were missing? I can answer that with a definite NO. If the author wanted to portray Rudy's struggle with old, nasty habits, he could have done that A ) all inside his head, and B) without the cringe hentai-grin. Rudy is voiced by frikkin Kon's voice actor, WHO BETTER would be able to act the thoughts of a distressed mind?! No need to show and act out any criminal pervert scenes, just have Kon argue with himself. It was such an obvious choice, but instead they give Rudy a cheap pervert grin. sigh

Again, because I want to make this clear: I'm mostly enjoying this anime. And I'm okay with degenerate scenes, with ecchi, with gratuitous rape, with any heinous shit. I'm 100% against censorship and pro-creative freedom. But: I want it to make sense. That's what makes a good story. Internal logic. And Mushoku is missing that internal logic whenever it tells us anything ecchi.

Yeah, like I have said, some of the scenes weren't needed. However, this show is going out of its way to not pretend humans don't have any sexual drive or that a person like the MC, who lived a totally terrible past life, wouldn't try to live his second life, with a much better beginning, as fully as possible. Nevertheless, his character had been schooled by an endless amount of porn games and other material in his past life, so it immediately affected his priorities and decisions in this life. In my opinion Rudeus being a kind of screwed up individual is better than some goody two-shoes.


You know what would have been more meaningful and thus better? If Rudy had full-on raped Eris. Rape her, satisfy his own nasty urges. Then afterwards DEAL WITH IT. Show us what it did to Eris (and no, not in the Zenith-way of showing her all happy and fallen in love with her rapist ...). Show us how she lost all her confidence suddenly and is shy and such. Show us Rudy feeling miserable about what he did and how he intends to make up for it (admit his crime and go to prison/execution? Be sent on a punishing mission? Avoiding punishment, but ask for Eris forgiving + maybe taking responsibility and marry her? Etc, etc.. ). THAT would be meaningful development. When the merchant offers him an aphrodisiac, have Rudy make a loud scene how dare that old man tell a 7yo kid about sex and stuff!!1, like that.

You certainly would make quite a niche author if you started to write manuscripts... But no, exactly what part of Rudeus's personality makes you think he's an evil rapist? Not to mention he couldn't rape Eris even if he wanted to, unless he used his magic to render her unconscious or dead before doing the deed. But yeah, that wouldn't be Rudeus. Who knows what has made you think he's so utterly evil. It's like you are talking about a different character from a different series. He's a pervert, but he also admires Roxy and only wishes the best for her, he went really out of his way to help Sylphie and is planning to further that assistance, and he suffered a lot to try to make Eris accept education for her own good. Yes, he has lewd fantasies about all of them and wouldn't be above copping a feel, but he wouldn't want to hurt them (he just doesn't understand that groping already could hurt them).


This is what makes all this dumb ecchi scenes so frustrating: There's so much potential for a good story, for good development. But it never happens.

After reading how you wanted Rudeus to brutally rape Eris, I'm quite sure I don't want to see your version of a "potential for a good story".


That's why he explained in detail to a 7yo boy how he'd be able to "thrust it into a woman 10 times!!1", eh?

There are far worse merchants (scammers) in the real world. It's nothing short of realistic.

[KrayZ33]

What we got was the ecchi part. We got the h-doujin portion. All the potentially meaningful development stuff, that was omitted. That's what I'm criticizing, Kray.

Well, that's just not true, which is why your criticism is basically pointless because it has no basis.
You expect to see something *particular* and if that didn't happen, nothing happened.

We DID see the aftermath,
We DID see the discussion
We DID see how Zenith felt after that
We DID see how the maid felt after that
We DID see how Paul felt after that (he didn't really think it was that big of a deal - although he did at least say sorry and knew it was wrong)
We DID see that Zenith had to overcome something in her mind so that she could somehow work this out properly without being a whiny bitch that would send the maid and her unborn child to their certain death.
We DID see that Rudy is also part of that decision and that she might have made that decision for his sake too.
We DID see how Rudy thinks about Paul after that
We DID see how Rudy tried to patch up his family again.
We DID see that Rudy had to manipulate her mother a bit to make this family work again, so that he can get his way too.
We DID see that Rudy understands Zenith well enough and knows how to push her buttons and appeal to her morals and priorities
We DID see that they made up again, that they are living side by side, raising their kids and that Daddy-Paul sees both children as equals.
We DID see that both children are raised equally as well since they are sleeping in the same crip, that suggests that Zenith's doesn't get any special privileges

What exactly is the "h-portion" in all that... the h-portion wasn't even *shown*, it was only implied..... the "h-portion" was basically the maid (I'm sorry, but I just can't remember the name... Lia?) washing herself while leaving the door open, most likely on purpose from what I made out of that discussion btw. but I'm not sure. She blamed herself quite a bit and explicitly said that she seduced paul... but that might as well be more "humble" than anything.

[DarthEnderX]

Too much FUCKING TEXT!!!

[Ryllharu]

Mushoku Tensei - 07


--------------




Generally a very predictable episode, but with a few decent gags throughout. Roxy seeing her own figurine and being incredibly creeped out by it even before the pervy prince started to treasure it was obviously was the best.

What does surprise me is that Eris is already at the cusp of being an Advanced Sword fighter and is only ten. That means right now she might be able to beat Paul on even footing, though I assume his experience would come into play.
For all her other faults, and shitty attitudes, it was too easy to forget that she's actually enthusiastic about sword fighting and is being trained by one of the greats. The opening fight was a good reminder. She must go easy on Rudy in their sparring.

The fight choreography was really impressive and quite cool. Enough for me to forgive the reused dancing practice animation.

[Munsu]

Mushoku Tensei - 07


--------------




Generally a very predictable episode, but with a few decent gags throughout. Roxy seeing her own figurine and being incredibly creeped out by it even before the pervy prince started to treasure it was obviously was the best.

What does surprise me is that Eris is already at the cusp of being an Advanced Sword fighter and is only ten. That means right now she might be able to beat Paul on even footing, though I assume his experience would come into play.
For all her other faults, and shitty attitudes, it was too easy to forget that she's actually enthusiastic about sword fighting and is being trained by one of the greats. The opening fight was a good reminder. She must go easy on Rudy in their sparring.

The fight choreography was really impressive and quite cool. Enough for me to forgive the reused dancing practice animation.

Did we learn how far Paul has advanced though? I don't recall personally.

[Ryllharu]

Pretty sure Rudy said he was an Advanced rank of whatever school(s) with his narration. It was either the episode where Paul kicked the crap out of him during practice when Rudy tried to fire off a spell in sparring, or it was during Ghislaine's introduction in the carriage.

[Munsu]

Pretty sure Rudy said he was an Advanced rank of whatever school(s) with his narration. It was either the episode where Paul kicked the crap out of him during practice when Rudy tried to fire off a spell in sparring, or it was during Ghislaine's introduction in the carriage.

So it's possible to be in multiple schools potentially, and maybe within the same rank there are sub ranks maybe? Guess we'll see when they fight in the future (crossing fingers).

[MFauli]

I think it's clear by now that being a pervert is normal in this world.

The repeated groping for Roxy. Her accepting it casually (she burns him, but allows it to happen again). Rudy's uncle talking about how hot beast girls are with him. The grandfather banging some random maid without shame (i'd bet he bangs all the maids).

On the flipside, women in this world don't hesitate to punish these perverts. But they still don't complain and let it happen.

I find that important to acknowledge, because while i find it dumb personally, it makes it easier to accept future transgressions.

Also I bet Eris mom had sex with Paul (or was raped by him, sigh) and that's why she dislikes Rudy. In a 'stay the fuck away from my daughter, Paul jr.' manner.

[Munsu]

I think it's clear by now that being a pervert is normal in this world.

The repeated groping for Roxy. Her accepting it casually (she burns him, but allows it to happen again). Rudy's uncle talking about how hot beast girls are with him. The grandfather banging some random maid without shame (i'd bet he bangs all the maids).

On the flipside, women in this world don't hesitate to punish these perverts. But they still don't complain and let it happen.

I find that important to acknowledge, because while i find it dumb personally, it makes it easier to accept future transgressions.

Also I bet Eris mom had sex with Paul (or was raped by him, sigh) and that's why she dislikes Rudy. In a 'stay the fuck away from my daughter, Paul jr.' manner.

Well, we're also talking about people in position of power, that's not something unique to this world particularly in places where there's no one or authority to turn to.

[Ryllharu]

Aside from teaching Eris to read, Rudy is encouraging her combat oriented studies, and him also being trained by Ghislaine is going to mean Eris is going to throw endless tantrums if she is told to quit.

Her mother is a "proper lady" as far as we can tell, so that's reason enough to dislike Rudy.

The fact that he's a Greyrat just makes it worse.

[Kraco]

I think it's clear by now that being a pervert is normal in this world.

Yeah, just like in our world.


The repeated groping for Roxy. Her accepting it casually (she burns him, but allows it to happen again).

She doesn't accept it. She just doesn't give the idiot prince the pleasure of any girly reaction. Instead she puts the pen away properly and then burns him, as if she was dealing with some vermin. If she did have a stronger reaction specifically to the moron fondling her breasts, it would only encourage him, but this way she shows she doesn't consider him a man at all, so it doesn't really matter, but she's still going to teach him a lesson for disrespecting and annoying her. It's quite solid psychology. As expected of Roxy.

[MFauli]

Yeah, just like in our world.

... sigh. I'm just gonna suppress the urge to reply to that for once, because you're so obviously wrong, but it'd lead to some nonsensical back and forth anyway.




She doesn't accept it. She just doesn't give the idiot prince the pleasure of any girly reaction. Instead she puts the pen away properly and then burns him, as if she was dealing with some vermin. If she did have a stronger reaction specifically to the moron fondling her breasts, it would only encourage him, but this way she shows she doesn't consider him a man at all, so it doesn't really matter, but she's still going to teach him a lesson for disrespecting and annoying her. It's quite solid psychology. As expected of Roxy.

Ah, you should tell that "solid psychology" to real girls and women then. "Just let yourself be groped, you only mustn't show any reaction, that will work".

[Munsu]

Ah, you should tell that "solid psychology" to real girls and women then. "Just let yourself be groped, you only mustn't show any reaction, that will work".

That completely ignores everything Kraco said, to say nothing that she did burn the fucker. And in this world we don't know the repercussions of her attacking someone above her standing... again, just as much as history in OUR world has shown. In fact you completely ignore that he disputes that she ACCEPTED it. I think you're the only one drawing that conclusion from those scenes.

[Buffalobiian]

Pretty sure Rudy said he was an Advanced rank of whatever school(s) with his narration. It was either the episode where Paul kicked the crap out of him during practice when Rudy tried to fire off a spell in sparring, or it was during Ghislaine's introduction in the carriage.

Eris feels like she should still be lower than Paul right now. She's apparently only just learned how to feint. That seems to be a pretty low bar for Advanced. Paul's supposed to be a knight of sorts for the village too.

Talking about predictable, I knew Rudy was going to sniff that item once he knew it was Roxy's.

[DarthEnderX]

I think it's clear by now that being a pervert is normal in this world.

The repeated groping for Roxy. Her accepting it casually (she burns him, but allows it to happen again). Rudy's uncle talking about how hot beast girls are with him. The grandfather banging some random maid without shame (i'd bet he bangs all the maids).

On the flipside, women in this world don't hesitate to punish these perverts. But they still don't complain and let it happen.Like Munsu said, these are all people of wealth and power in a medieval society. They can get away with anything.

Contrast Sauros fucking the maid to the reaction to Paul fucking the maid.

[Kraco]

... sigh. I'm just gonna suppress the urge to reply to that for once, because you're so obviously wrong, but it'd lead to some nonsensical back and forth anyway.

Two presidents of the USA, the most powerful country in the world, in recent history gained ill reputation by not managing to keep their pants up. You'd think that if your efforts in life culminated in reaching that position, you wouldn't want to risk anything by being a pervert, but it's not so. The only difference between the past and the present is that nowadays people get caught, and when they do, there are consequences. Although it's a tiresome example, but do you actually think in the religious organisations there were no problems before our modern times with pervert employees, just because nobody ever reported anything?


Ah, you should tell that "solid psychology" to real girls and women then. "Just let yourself be groped, you only mustn't show any reaction, that will work".

Think for a moment how an adult woman could behave if some little, witless kid attacked her breasts. It would be different from how she would react if it was a man. What I am saying is that Roxy doesn't see the cretin prince as worthy of her attention at all. He might be five years old as far as she's concerned. By the looks of it, he indeed is so retarded that would about match his mental age. Roxy also didn't really take Rudeus so seriously as a man, even though she very much recognised his magic talent.

Btw, based on your reply, I fear you aren't doing well with trolls. They also harass people wishing for a maximum reaction. Nothing is worse for them than getting no reaction, only a ban or other disciplinary measure. Which is exactly what Roxy did with the imbecile prince.

[KrayZ33]

Oh that dance was animated really well.
Even better than the one from.. this one show.. where this half angel/half demon girl came together with the thief and the knight - can't remember the name, pretty sure you guys know which one I'm talking about - And that one was already well done.

She looked really sweet during the dance scene.
Kinda warmed my heart.

[Munsu]

Oh that dance was animated really well.
Even better than the one from.. this one show.. where this half angel/half demon girl came together with the thief and the knight - can't remember the name, pretty sure you guys know which one I'm talking about - And that one was already well done.

She looked really sweet during the dance scene.
Kinda warmed my heart.

Can't say I watched whatever anime you're mentioning there.

[Buffalobiian]

Oh that dance was animated really well.
Even better than the one from.. this one show.. where this half angel/half demon girl came together with the thief and the knight - can't remember the name, pretty sure you guys know which one I'm talking about - And that one was already well done.

She looked really sweet during the dance scene.
Kinda warmed my heart.

That's FAVARO!! aka Rage of Bahamut:Genesis.

[DarthEnderX]

Can't say I watched whatever anime you're mentioning there.Must be one of these (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r34ZFys2URY).

[Munsu]

Must be one of these (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r34ZFys2URY).

I watched a bit of Rage of Bahamut: Genesis, never finished... I should since I was liking it. But now I see.

[neflight86]

Sustained by the most meager drips of dere...

I'm actually kind of surprised that Ghislane wasn't literate, or practiced in magic, diarrhea aside. She seemed to learn them quickly enough.

[Kraco]

Sustained by the most meager drips of dere...

I'm actually kind of surprised that Ghislane wasn't literate, or practiced in magic, diarrhea aside. She seemed to learn them quickly enough.

How much time has it now been? One year or two? It's possible Ghislane did know something already, though.

[KrayZ33]

Man.. looking at the trailer, I sure hope we actually get to see most of the scenes in there.
Really feels like a fantasy RPG.

It's a good thing we have so many episodes left and the pacing is pretty good so far with lots of time passing by in between scenes when they are about their "daily life".

Some seriously amazing landscapes are featured there too and oddly looking beast to travel on etc.
I want to see that.
But it almost looks like the scenes are especially made for the trailer because Roxy looks kinda different in them.

[Buffalobiian]

diarrhea aside

Diarrhoea?

[neflight86]

My spelling is weak. I was referencing her 'story' about eating feces due to illiteracy (and getting the runs) that they used to motivate Eris a couple episodes back.

[Buffalobiian]

Oh right, yeah, that happened.

[DarthEnderX]

My spelling is weak.
No, you spelled it right.

[David75]

Ep08
Some space to prevent spoilers for those late to the party






Well it pretty much follows the manga. But it's great to have it animated.
Surprised by some details but it's to be expected considering we have only 4 eps before a long pause till summer.
We're 1/3rd into a 24 eps anime and it feels like we could go all the way to the latest manga chapters.
At least I hope so, because what comes next was boring to me. But it might be a lot better in anime for many reasons.

I was not surprised by the very muscular Ghislaine. I read long ago that felines can keep strong muscles without much excercise...

Now I know what an adventure anime with enough budget and a pervert feels like... I admitt I could do without the pervert.
But I like the adventure/magic parts.

[MFauli]

Ffs, long posting gone from random reload :/

[Kraco]

Well it pretty much follows the manga. But it's great to have it animated.

The original is actually a novel series.


I was not surprised by the very muscular Ghislaine. I read long ago that felines can keep strong muscles without much excercise...

Although her fighting skills obviously are partially supernatural, I still imagine a strong body helps tremendously.


Now I know what an adventure anime with enough budget and a pervert feels like... I admitt I could do without the pervert.

It's kind of strange he can't control himself better, despite having experienced and witnessed firsthand the cost of acting on perverted impulses. Maybe he keeps thinking he can get away with it, like some others have.

[DarthEnderX]

Oh good. A bikini toddler. I was worried this show might be getting too classy...



I was not surprised by the very muscular Ghislaine. I read long ago that felines can keep strong muscles without much excercise...It's not exactly realistic for her to have a rock hard ass, but still have bigass titties. Since tits are basically just bags of fat.

[neflight86]

Did I miss why/when Mrs. Greyrat 180ed on Rudeus as a receptacle for her maternal instincts?

The creep factor was real when I recognized the mental ages on that bed were 45 and 12. Don't go there, my dude.

I guess wands really do make the wizard. I like that everyone noticed that ball in the sky just chilling for apparently months/years, and kind of had to get used to it until it exploded.

[KrayZ33]

Oh gawd, it's getting serious.

I'm hyped.

Another great episode imho. The time skip really did something to the characters and their view on Rudeus, although I have to admit I didn't quite understand what exactly made Eris' mother change her mind and why. It was extremely funny though when she was dragged away from the party, just like pops did.

The physical age gap between Rudeus and Eris is very interesting to me. I actually found it pretty fascinating that they are going towards that kind of relationship too.
I'm kinda ignoring the "mental age" thing (because if you don't, even if he turns 18 and bangs a 18 year old, he is mentally 55+ years old... and that's still awkward...) but I too think it would've been more interesting if that "mental age" wasn't even a factor there in the first place because I would've wondered how MC was expected to react at that point in time.
What was the normal age of children in medieval times to do these kind of things. I'm not talking about actually having sex, but basically what they did... or what Eris wanted to do. Sleeping together with the boy she likes and maybe even kissing him or something.

[Kraco]

Did I miss why/when Mrs. Greyrat 180ed on Rudeus as a receptacle for her maternal instincts?

Her own sons were taken away from her. She didn't hate Rudeus personally in the first place, she was just angry because her own sons are elsewhere, yet another family's son is present instead. However, when Rudeus performed his little show of crying and seemingly missing his parents, Mrs. Greyrat understood that just like her sons must be missing their mother (Mrs. Greyrat) somewhere out there, similarly Rudeus is away from his own family for years. So, actually Rudeus is not that different from her sons. If she's cold toward Rudeus, then shouldn't she also assume the host family is similarly cold toward her poor sons?

[DarthEnderX]

Also, lol at the maid obviously mailing him Roxy's panties.

I can't wait for 5 years to pass and both Roxy and Eris promised to marry him...