Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation [Archive] - Page 3

Buffalobiian

Sun, 11-28-2021, 12:51 PM

Actually... going by the timeline, if we assume teleportation to happen instantly for everyone (as in nobody gets teleported into the future), we learned 2 things here:

1) By the time Lillia got to Shirone, Roxy already had enough of Pax and left.

2) Lillia's been locked up for 18 months or however long it's been since the teleportation. That's a long time to be locked up. That's also a long time for Pax to sit on hostages without broadcasting his threat. Like.. not even Paul's group caught wind of this, and they're actively looking for Lillia et al.

Yes, there was travel time, but there's no telling how long Lillia travelled the roads with Aisha. The montage didn't seem long, and no one else went "Oh you look suspicious foreign, did you get teleported?"

edit: oh yeah. and Pax trading a Roxy figure for a subordinate... under no circumstance save for his life would he have traded that.

I thought for sure that Zanoba's VA would have been Beetlejuice from Re:Zero, but they're different. He did voice Caster from Fate/Zero though.

Ryllharu

Sun, 11-28-2021, 01:11 PM

Lilia has really good instincts. The others stared blankly at the sky beam while she immediately grabbed Aisha. Given that Zenith and Paul are both adventurers, they made quite the poor showing imo. Honestly, she might be the wisest person in the entire household. "Top-tier maid" trope? That would also explain Aisha's above average intellect last week, as well as her deducing his true identity at some point. Haha, then again, Lilia has also teaching Aisha adultery as a skill? Does this put Lilia in the upper half of the scale that starts with Zenith and ends with Whore Elf?

All the Shirone princes are weirdos of some kind. Pervert younger one and otaku figurine collector third prince? Haha. The third prince has good taste. Action poses are indeed the superior type of anime figurines. I assume that they've skipped over Rudy teaching him how to make his own with detailed earth magic.

That said...Rudy is still the perviest weirdo of them all. The Roxy figurine was a cast-off!

Eris obediently following Rudy's request to not reveal his true identity to Aisha...she must be absolutely besotted with Rudy.

I thought for sure that Zanoba's VA would have been Beetlejuice from Re:Zero, but they're different. He did voice Caster from Fate/Zero though.
That explains the excellent fanatic energy he was exuding.

Buffalobiian

Sun, 11-28-2021, 01:18 PM

That said...Rudy is still the perviest weirdo of them all. The Roxy figurine was a cast-off!

I don't think I've ever seen the 3-arm trick in real life..

But something tells me we're about to.

-----------------------

edit: Imagine a letter form Rudy to Paul.

"Dear Father,

I hope you're well.

I've finally arrived in Shirone.

Oh by the way, during that time I found your lover and kid.

You're welcome.

Rudeus"

Kraco

Sun, 11-28-2021, 03:13 PM

Eris obediently following Rudy's request to not reveal his true identity to Aisha...she must be absolutely besotted with Rudy.

It makes a lot of sense. She already respected Rudeus after the faux kidnapping scheme, and ever since they were teleported, she was even ready to leave her life, pretty much, in Rudeus's hands. Furthermore, they were alone, separated from everyone they previously knew, lost in a foreign, dangerous land. The misattribution of arousal, aka suspencion bridge effect, would work in the romance's favour.

Oh by the way, during that time I found your lover and kid.

Mistress might be a better word for it.

MFauli

Sun, 11-28-2021, 03:57 PM

On one hand I hate how an otherwise good fantasy story is ruined by all the dumb ecchi scene.

On the other hand, it makes me happy to imagine how happy enthusiast weebs and figure collectors must have been while watching the in-depth description of the Roxy figure. :D I'm weeb enough myself to kept nodding in agreement with Zenoba the whole time LOL

The pacing was a bit weird, or rather, the sudden resolve of the situation. At first it felt like this arc ould have gone on for 1-2 more episodes. But then Zenoba appeared and everything quickly reached a happy end. Not upset over this, though, because the remaining reunions are much more interesting imo.

If I had to predict the further order of events I'd say:

1. finding Sylphie (starting some severe romanti drama with Eris which will be fun)
2. finding his mom
3. getting news that Paul found Ghislaine, but is in severe trouble, so Rudy and his mom hurry to where he is

Although his mom and Ghislaine could be switched, would maybe make it even more dramatic.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 11-29-2021, 03:31 AM

https://www.kotobukiya.co.jp/product/product-0000004383/

The 3-arms ability is yet to be confirmed, but what IS confirmed is that she gets an embarrassed face, and a huge seam on her sides...

https://i.imgur.com/hY4NunC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RWzeesW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cMl12od.jpg

Kraco

Mon, 11-29-2021, 03:41 AM

It was a nice challenge issued to figurine makers!

KrayZ33

Mon, 11-29-2021, 02:33 PM

it's very clever design indeed actually, as the arm will also serve as a chest-enhancer when fully clothed. So you get flat chested justice alongside boobas.

What a genius!

neflight86

Wed, 12-01-2021, 09:37 AM

A this point, the story has wildly diverged from the manga I read years ago, suggesting this is based on the LNs. Its easy to forget that manga is also an adaptation. I think I like where this is going better, and even the otaku pandering doesn't feel as forced.

The non-climax of the resolution here takes away from the horrific throwaway line that Zanoba killed a child by accident with his innate strength. Strange that not another work is said nor eyelash batted... Price life chose me!

Kraco

Wed, 12-01-2021, 10:00 AM

The non-climax of the resolution here takes away from the horrific throwaway line that Zanoba killed a child by accident with his innate strength. Strange that not another work is said nor eyelash batted... Price life chose me!

If you consider the general atmosphere of that royal castle, I'm not overly surprised. Aside from Zanoba actually being appreciated for his innate super strength, the princes are largely left to their own devices, by the looks of it. Pax was free to alienate and loose a highly competent and powerful court mage simply by being a perv not in control of himself. He's also allowed to kidnap soldiers' families to create a loyal-through-blackmail troop for himself. I'm not quite sure what exactly changed this time that the princes got punished, but I doubt it was almost making an enemy out of another powerful mage and a Superd, to boot.

Kraco

Sun, 12-05-2021, 12:33 PM

Episode 21

- - - - -

Yeah, it would be wrong for Rudeus to die for being an apostle of the Man-God. Who knows, the Man-God might even consider Rudeus such; only that shady dude himself can decide who is and who isn't his follower. Nevertheless, Rudeus himself certainly doesn't consider himself to be an apostle of anything like that. The Man-God merely exploited Rudeus's desperate circumstances after the teleportation incident. What else could Rudeus have relied on? So far Rudeus has heeded Man-God's advice a few times because it has worked. But if you consider religious faith, that's not a requirement. But, again, only the Man-God would be qualified to define what his follower should be like.

A highly valuable lesson for Rudeus, regardless, encouraging to check his behavior and words more carefully in the future. It's kind of funny that despite having much, much more life experience than he should have, he's only more naive in some ways. It's because he didn't grow up fully absorbing the basic sense of that new world, like a regular kid. A part of him would always behave like someone from Earth behaves, which can be counterproductive in an alien world.

Good character development between Eris and Rudeus.

Buffalobiian

Sun, 12-05-2021, 01:33 PM

Orsted was a bit rash here. As far as I know, seeing Man-God in your dream is up to the Man-God, not you. Nor does Man-God seek require consent before appearing in your dreams.

So the fact that Rudy sees him has little bearing towards Rudy's acceptance of the dude.

I very much liked the difference in intensities between the fights:

1) Ruijerd didn't go all out, accepts Eris as a warrier.
2) Ruijerd goes all out, gets clapped hard.

Ryllharu

Sun, 12-05-2021, 02:03 PM

Eris best girl at this point.

Rudy should probably teach her incantation-less magic now so she can go a bit spellsword.

That is all.

MFauli

Sun, 12-05-2021, 02:04 PM

I hate that Orsted healed Rudy. That cheapens the whole encounter. It should have been another coincicential person, maybe Roxy even, who happens to be there to heal him. Now it's just total play-pretend kind of, with Orsted showing off. Nah, I don't like that solution.

Ryllharu

Sun, 12-05-2021, 02:28 PM

Same.

Would have preferred that Eris, beastly girlfriend who can't be killed when she should be, would have provided just enough first aid or even if they revealed he had taught her (poorly) how to cast healing. Enough for Rudy to instinctually jump start what he faded out doing as he began to die: gather mana and heal himself enough to survive.

Deeply despise the poor writing of an All-knowing, arrogant, and powerful villain type. There's no functional difference between that an unspeaking monster or "basically just a moving statue" evil deity/demon. They're drowning in hubris and are barely even two-dimensional characters.

Kraco

Sun, 12-05-2021, 03:34 PM

No, it's cool. He didn't care to listen to Rudeus's explanations. He apparently simply goes around killing anything Man-God related. However, Nanahoshi obviously made him reconsider that automatic action. Maybe time will tell why. If Nanahoshi is one of the very few people who can interact with Orsted without shaking in their boots all the time, it might explain why he listens to her. After all, killing Rudeus was nothing personal: He simply killed him because he was somehow connected to the Man-God. Thus healing him isn't a big deal either.

The incident will leave its mark on Rudeus, hopefully, but it definitely affected Eris. So, it wasn't wasted at all. Having some third party suddenly appear and be able to heal Rudeus, despite the huge, critical wound, would be a real deus ex machina development.

Ryllharu

Sun, 12-05-2021, 04:09 PM

The incident will leave its mark on Rudeus, hopefully, but it definitely affected Eris. So, it wasn't wasted at all. Having some third party suddenly appear and be able to heal Rudeus, despite the huge, critical wound, would be a real deus ex machina development.
Orsted is a third party individual healing Rudeus in my opinion.

Would have made more sense for Rudeus to see the whole thing through his eye and then finally agree to shut the fuck up and let him pass.
- Rujierd dead in 30 seconds, Rudy punched through, Eris dead in a matter of seconds in one of her fits of revenge (she's not Ghislaine yet!) and then fade to dead. All over under a minute.

MFauli

Sun, 12-05-2021, 05:01 PM

There were 2 good way to resolve this situation:

1: Someone else appears and saves Rudy
2: Rudy actually dies, but is given another rebirth in the same world, but in another body

2 would have been exciting, 1 acceptable. What we got was meh.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 12-06-2021, 01:55 AM

Would have made more sense for Rudeus to see the whole thing through his eye and then finally agree to shut the fuck up and let him pass.
- Rujierd dead in 30 seconds, Rudy punched through, Eris dead in a matter of seconds in one of her fits of revenge (she's not Ghislaine yet!) and then fade to dead. All over under a minute.Except, his eye doesn't see nearly that far into the future. It only sees a split second ahead.

This makes way more sense than suddenly making Rudeus 100x more powerful.

Ryllharu

Mon, 12-06-2021, 04:20 AM

Orsted is really shittily written for a villain here. Very one-dimensional, and having him go back to heal Rudy cheapens the encounter, exactly like MFauli said first.

All-knowing, arrogant, over-powered, and switches on a whim. Which makes him Boring, even if it invokes an immediate reaction of dislike, it's a cheap one.

Kraco

Mon, 12-06-2021, 04:26 AM

Rudeus actually did foresaw his own gruesome wounding, and was able to avoid the first hit, although Ruijerd actually made most of the evasion happen. However, Rudeus doesn't, very evidently, have the mindset of a fighter, despite the long journey through the demon continent. That's why I said he's not only benefitting from his past life on Earth, but it's also a big weakness. He can't, by default, process a situation where another humanoid he can even talk with would be totally unreasonable and hostile. It's actually kind of funny because back on Earth he was mercilessly bullied, which is unreasonable hostility. But he's still a Japanese pacifist deep down. He simply didn't have the tools to face Orsted in any manner. We can assume Orsted is beyond powerful and experienced, besting Ruijerd handily, so if he intended to give Rudeus a fatal wound, it would be a fatal wound.

Orsted is not a third party, he's the second party. Like I said, his reason for killing Rudeus is quite flimsy, so why would he need an especially heavy reason to heal him either? If he's a so called god, it must not be an especially big deal for him.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 12-06-2021, 05:26 AM

MFauli

Mon, 12-06-2021, 05:54 AM

I feel like people are complaining about how Orstead switched gears so fast, but we don't actually know what the girl said to him to make him do that. She might have had a really good, convincing argument. We don't know, because Rudeus passed out, and Eris doesn't pay attention to details.

The guy who was just explained to be utterly non-negotiable, a force of nature-like character, listening to a "good, convincing argument"? That only makes it worse. The only thing I'd accept is if his companion turned out to be the #1 of the Seven Sword Gods, which is doubtful.

The problem with the scene is that it doesn't make any climatic sense. Orsted attacked with the intention to kill Rudy for good. The end. Then screen fades to black and back, and now Rudy is alive ... saved by Orsted?! Had Orsted said "kid, I don't want to kill you", but then ended up having to fight Rudy nonetheless, THEN him healing Rudy would have made sense.

It's just nonsense. I'd go as far as saying that it ruins the tension of the whole series going forward, because now you can always expect a "leave jail-card" even from the most dire situations. Just have the opponent have a "mysterious" change of heart that will be bs-explained much, much later. It's a cheap way to tell a story. A deus ex machine with Rudy awakening powers to fight Orsted would have been more satisfying.

Kraco

Mon, 12-06-2021, 08:21 AM

The guy who was just explained to be utterly non-negotiable, a force of nature-like character, listening to a "good, convincing argument"? That only makes it worse. The only thing I'd accept is if his companion turned out to be the #1 of the Seven Sword Gods, which is doubtful.

Why wouldn't he listen to a good, convincing argument? If he had no motivation, no interest in anything, he wouldn't have killed Rudeus in the first place. However, he seems highly motivated to do anything he can to hurt the Man-God. If the masked woman, Nanahoshi, said something that convinced him that letting Rudeus live would serve his purposes better, why wouldn't he do it? If you ask me, Orsted didn't look like a deep thinker, no matter how powerful and skilled he is, so maybe the woman is the brains of their duo.

The problem with the scene is that it doesn't make any climatic sense. Orsted attacked with the intention to kill Rudy for good. The end. Then screen fades to black and back, and now Rudy is alive ... saved by Orsted?! Had Orsted said "kid, I don't want to kill you", but then ended up having to fight Rudy nonetheless, THEN him healing Rudy would have made sense.

What kind of climactic thrill did you expect from a scene of the main character dying in the middle of a series? This clearly isn't any Les Miserables either. It was a foregone conclusion Rudeus wouldn't die for real. It was only a matter of how he's going to revive. It was a really good fight, but the MC doesn't obviously die. Besides, Orsted clearly did want to kill him because Rudeus is connected to the Man-God. "I don't want to kill you, but I will kill you nonetheless" is the kind of stuff a two-bit villain would say.

It's just nonsense. I'd go as far as saying that it ruins the tension of the whole series going forward, because now you can always expect a "leave jail-card" even from the most dire situations. Just have the opponent have a "mysterious" change of heart that will be bs-explained much, much later. It's a cheap way to tell a story. A deus ex machine with Rudy awakening powers to fight Orsted would have been more satisfying.

Deus ex machina is never better, unless it's a pure comedy series and the deus ex machina is hilarious. This was pretty much the only way this could happen. Orsted wouldn't have allowed Rudeus to stay alive, unless Orsted himself accepted it. Rudeus suddenly getting a huge Dragon Ball powerup to fight the number 2 or 1 most powerful individual in the world would have ruined everything. This series didn't go the instantly OP route for the MC, which is one detail that makes this far less trashy than most isekai out there.

And no, Orsted didn't have any change of heart. At least I don't think he had. Whatever Nanahoshi said made him reverse his decision, but it doesn't automatically mean he feels different about it. Orsted seemed like a dick, so I wouldn't expect too much from him. After all, he decided to kill Rudeus simply because Rudeus knew about the Man-God. There could be a number of explanations for reversing the decision. Although I don't remember any details, the manga might have mentioned something about it, so I can't type here anything at all, to avoid writing spoilers unwittingly.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 12-06-2021, 09:55 AM

The problem with the scene is that it doesn't make any climatic sense. Orsted attacked with the intention to kill Rudy for good. The end. Then screen fades to black and back, and now Rudy is alive ... saved by Orsted?!No, it faded to black with the girl going "Hey, wait a minute, what if he's..."...and then he's alive. Which is an important distinction.

After all, he decided to kill Rudeus simply because Rudeus knew about the Man-God. There could be a number of explanations for reversing the decision.The first thing that comes to mind is "If he's connected to the Man God, maybe we can use him to GET to the Man God, so you can kill him."

MFauli

Mon, 12-06-2021, 09:58 AM

No, it faded to black with the girl going "Hey, wait a minute, what if he's..."...and then he's alive. Which is an important distinction.

He could have listened to Rudy before attacking him. I don't care about what that girl said when he's already demonstrated that he's not willing to listen to reason.

neflight86

Mon, 12-06-2021, 01:50 PM

Lot of meat on the bone this week.

Orsted was a bit rash here. As far as I know, seeing Man-God in your dream is up to the Man-God, not you. Nor does Man-God seek require consent before appearing in your dreams.

I'd like to challenge this 'Orsted was completely bonkers for attacking rudeus' sentiment. Firstly, we know (now) that every living creature from this world hates or fears him due to a curse, visibly so. He walked past them frozen in fear, business as usual, but this one kid that he doesn't know when he knows about everyone strikes up conversation. Already suspicious. This kid asks about the mana disaster. Orsted finds this even more suspicious (that was years ago). The only conclusion he reached was... not far off base- this guy is associated with the man-god somehow. It follows that he must die.

I hate that Orsted healed Rudy. That cheapens the whole encounter.

The whole encounter was an accident to begin with. How could it get any cheaper?

Deeply despise the poor writing of an All-knowing, arrogant, and powerful villain type. There's no functional difference between that an unspeaking monster or "basically just a moving statue" evil deity/demon. They're drowning in hubris and are barely even two-dimensional characters.

What if he's not a villain, but simply in current opposition to the protagonist? Arrogant and all knowing/powerful would have killed all of them for sure, and would not be talked into reviving one, would they?

There were 2 good way to resolve this situation:

1: Someone else appears and saves Rudy
2: Rudy actually dies, but is given another rebirth in the same world, but in another body

Tastes vary, but 1 for me would have been a bigger machina (has anyone else healed a gaping hole on screen yet?), and 2 would make this even slower Re:Zero, so I'll have to agree to disagree.

The problem with the scene is that it doesn't make any climatic sense. Orsted attacked with the intention to kill Rudy for good. The end. Then screen fades to black and back, and now Rudy is alive ... saved by Orsted?! Had Orsted said "kid, I don't want to kill you", but then ended up having to fight Rudy nonetheless, THEN him healing Rudy would have made sense.

As a rational actor, he could be acted upon, and was by his companion, who asked him, after the fact, to 'reverse' his decision to kill. It makes sense to me.

It's just nonsense. I'd go as far as saying that it ruins the tension of the whole series going forward, because now you can always expect a "leave jail-card" even from the most dire situations. Just have the opponent have a "mysterious" change of heart that will be bs-explained much, much later. It's a cheap way to tell a story. A deus ex machine with Rudy awakening powers to fight Orsted would have been more satisfying.

Not everyone they meet has to be a sociopath who revels in death and destruction? There's no reason to assume that goblin slayer rules are going to be enforced on each lost battle. People have language and can talk and reason, and even change opinions. There's no reason this story can't tap into that.

Orsted is really shittily written for a villain here. Very one-dimensional, and having him go back to heal Rudy cheapens the encounter, exactly like MFauli said first.

All-knowing, arrogant, over-powered, and switches on a whim. Which makes him Boring, even if it invokes an immediate reaction of dislike, it's a cheap one.

It was said at the beginning of this episode, but sometimes things just happen. We're talking like this is some fated confrontation we've been building up to over three seasons or something. What, exactly, is Rudeus owed for not 'reading the room' and talking to a dangerous entity, getting his comrades dragged into it and nearly all dying? What is the opposite of 'cheap' in this scenario, if that is a value judgement? If the tables had been turned, and Dead End wiped out some petty bandits that didn't know their place, I doubt we would be complaining this much.

'Boring' is the only argument I've seen against this so far, and I'd disagree. I like the dynamics of an unstoppable force tempered with reason and some actual counteragency to the man-god's whims. It didn't even take more than an episode, and we got some cool fight scenes to boot.

I think the fundamental thing people are missing and upset about is a lack of satisfaction with the encounter. Rudeus didn't get to have the last word, or scratch Orsted's cheek, heal himself slyly after playing dead, or anything that reminds us that this story, this world, centers around Rudeus for a whole 15 minutes. I'm fine with that and it makes everything feel richer than bog standard power fantasy isekai.

Fun discussions, as always!

KrayZ33

Mon, 12-06-2021, 04:07 PM

I consulted everyone I know and I'm pretty sure now that this week's episode was only 5 minutes long.
It was over in a flash.

I loved every second of it.

And did I miss a whole episode of Orsted or something? Because people talk about him as if they know anything about his character, actions or motivations, when in fact we know actually absolutely nothing as of yet and the whole purpose of this meeting was to introduce him, not to explain him in less than 30 seconds. What kind of character would that be? And people say the way he is now is one-dimensional? A joke, I say!
Either way, from that little introduction we can assume stuff like "he knows this timeline" and also knows that Rudeus is different from everyone else.
And if we are feeling adventurous, we can assume that his girl-side kick is someone from another world as well, because the curse doesn't work on her. (if we accept what Man-God said at face value)
And if we are feeling very adventurous, we can assume that this is the reason why Orstred, or the girl, healed Rudeus. After all, if the girl died and got pulled in this by the Man-God as well and Ostred he took a liking to her (probably due to her not being affected by the curse)... and they have a feeling that Rudeus might be one of that kind as well... well... it's going to be unconclusive as of now.
Yet, Nanahoshi is a japanese sounding name.... pretty sure that this isn't at random, considering it's the first I remember hearing, pretty sure it isn't mentioned at random either when the whole scene could go without saying that name even once.

We also don't know anything about "apostles" either, it's the first time we heard that term and the Man-God *is* a shady guy, who knows what his "apostles" do?

I found this little bit rather exciting. First and foremost because we finally get to see him after being teased who knows how many episodes ago.

Oh, and the music was kicking ass.

It's just nonsense. I'd go as far as saying that it ruins the tension of the whole series going forward, because now you can always expect a "leave jail-card" even from the most dire situations. Just have the opponent have a "mysterious" change of heart that will be bs-explained much, much later. It's a cheap way to tell a story. A deus ex machine with Rudy awakening powers to fight Orsted would have been more satisfying.

Nah... the way it is now is much better.

What people seem to forget, if you have power over life and death and can basically heal fatal wounds, you lose sight of what said wounds actually are to others.
Like,for example, when Hidan in Naruto fights all-out without the fear of getting stabbed or losing his head, because he is immortal.
You'll tend to make rash decisions and you'll lean towards making them more readily and easily than others. If taking a life isn't something of consequence, you don't treat it as such.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 12-06-2021, 05:44 PM

This episode feels a lot like one of the Re:Zero episodes where Subaru is suddenly brutally murdered by someone he's never met before.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 12-06-2021, 06:48 PM

The only conclusion he reached was... not far off base- this guy is associated with the man-god somehow. It follows that he must die.

Yeah, Rudy is indeed associated with the Man-God. That's not a big leap of logic - Rudy mentions he's seen him.

The leap is where he assumes that Rudy is the Man-God's Apostle.

Apostle means follower, and generally worships a god or figure voluntarily. The involuntary ones are better known as slaves.

Orsted jumps the gun here by assuming Rudy's knowledge of the Man God means he's an Apostle.

I'm not particularly fussed about Orsted's reasons for killing Man-God worshippers or rescuing people he previously thought should die. I'm fussed about his jumping to conclusions.

That's just dumb.

Like... Eris-dumb.

Maybe worse.

Ryllharu

Mon, 12-06-2021, 07:56 PM

Orsted jumps the gun here by assuming Rudy's knowledge of the Man God means he's an Apostle.

I'm not particularly fussed about Orsted's reasons for killing Man-God worshippers or rescuing people he previously thought should die. I'm fussed about his jumping to conclusions.

That's just dumb.
Is it though?

I am sorely disappointed with the majority of the way this played out, but I'll still be the one to dive back into the obvious detail we haven't been discussing.

Orsted knows everyone's past and future but Rudy's. Which I will still contend is bullshit from a writing perspective, but the declaration has been made so now we gotta roll with it. "Paul shouldn't have a son; only two daughters."

Rudy is an aberration and admitting that he knows Man-God makes it a very easy leap to believe that this person who shouldn't exist is a pawn or direct agent of the Man-God. It of course makes sense after it is said. Rudy was isekai'd into this world after all. But why does Orsted know with enough detail to state that Paul only ever has daughters? Rudy noticed the point too. Paul's super horny. I'm honestly surprised Tits and her sister haven't been knocked up. Only ever two daughters?

He was also surprised that Eris knows any magic at all. After commenting on her sword skills lacking polish but having promise even though he confirmed to Rudy he hasn't met Eris or Rujierd "yet."

Orsted's bullshit lines mean there's time travel or a time loop. Unequivocally.

That should also make us question Orsted's claim that he doesn't know about the teleport/mana disaster. It has to have happened more than once. Or he caused it. And asking about it only pissed him off more even though he replied in the negative.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 12-06-2021, 07:57 PM

Is it though?

Like, yeah, Rudy is not Man God's "apostle" or whatever. But he's still guided by him and does what he tells him to. So he's still an agent in the physical world enacting his will.

This guy probably knows a lot more about Man God than Rudy does. This could just be his MO. Bring over people from other worlds, manipulate them into setting certain events in motion, and maybe these events end in disaster.

Does it matter to Orstead if Rudy is knowingly following, or just an unwitting pawn, if the consequences are the same? Perhaps to him, it's better to just remove the piece entirely.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 12-06-2021, 08:26 PM

Like, yeah, Rudy is not Man God's "apostle" or whatever. But he's still guided by him and does what he tells him to.

And how does Orsted know Rudy is doing what Man-God tells him to do?

Agreed that there is time travel.

DarthEnderX

Tue, 12-07-2021, 12:42 AM

And how does Orsted know Rudy is doing what Man-God tells him to do?He doesn't. But maybe he doesn't care to take the chance. Asking does no good when the person could just lie. Better to sever everyone connected to Man God than allow him to continue his manipulations.

Kraco

Tue, 12-07-2021, 02:12 AM

Yeah, Rudy is indeed associated with the Man-God. That's not a big leap of logic - Rudy mentions he's seen him.

The leap is where he assumes that Rudy is the Man-God's Apostle.
...
I'm not particularly fussed about Orsted's reasons for killing Man-God worshippers or rescuing people he previously thought should die. I'm fussed about his jumping to conclusions.

Eh... I watch relatively lots of history related Youtube videos, and one thing extremely common regarding WW2 videos is that German=Nazi. It doesn't even need to be a human. Nazi panzer, Nazi airplanes, Nazi AA cannons... I'd say millions of people do this, even people with a degree in history, so considering Orsted seems to hate the Man-God as much as the WW2 Americans, British, Soviets, and many others hated the Nazis, I'd say Orsted jumping to conclusions is highly realistic.

Buffalobiian

Tue, 12-07-2021, 03:55 AM

"Does the name Hitler mean anything to you?"

"Yeah! Last Saturday we.."

-delete-

You're saying this isn't absurd.

Kraco

Tue, 12-07-2021, 04:19 AM

No, due to the difference in scale, the correct comparison would be:

"Are you German?"
"Yes."
"So, you are Nazi."

In that isekai, few people even know the Man-God exists, by the looks of it. So, it's not unexpected to jump to the conclusion that anyone who knows there's such a thing is somewhat deeply involved, especially if there are other suspicious factors involved. Like, if Orsted walked into the best library in the world to ask the chief librarian if he/she has ever heard of a Man-God. If the person said yes, Orsted would just kill them? No, I don't think so. The circumstances would suggest the librarian may know it from an external information source, being a librarian. Not that he could have a decent conversation with a librarian due to his curse.

Buffalobiian

Tue, 12-07-2021, 04:40 AM

Like, if Orsted walked into the best library in the world to ask the chief librarian if he/she has ever heard of a Man-God. If the person said yes, Orsted would just kill them?

Based on this episode, yeah he probably would.

Orsted didn't stop to think about circumstances.

"Oh, you've got incantationless magic? Man-God gave you that huh?"

"Why didn't you heal your lungs if you've got that skill? Eh. Just die."

Kraco

Tue, 12-07-2021, 05:27 AM

Rudeus is just a random lad, who even somehow avoided Orsted's godly divination power. How would Rudeus know the Man-God exist if not by being in contact with him? If a librarian knows, it's likely due to the books and the flow of information in the trade. Of course a librarian could also be in direct contact, but that's only the logical secondary option that would need to be investigated. That being said, it's possible Orsted would kill the librarian in any case, so that the person wouldn't spread the knowledge. However, in Rudeus's case, there's no quick alternative option to explain it.

DarthEnderX

Tue, 12-07-2021, 05:46 AM

Rudeus is just a random lad, who even somehow avoided Orsted's godly divination power. How would Rudeus know the Man-God exist if not by being in contact with him?I mean...Rudy specifically said "he talks to me in my dreams" so Orstead doesn't even have to make that kind of connection.

"Does the name Hitler mean anything to you?"

"Yeah! Last Saturday we.."

-delete-

You're saying this isn't absurd.I mean, only absurd in so much as Hitler is very dead.

If you were like:
"Do you know Putin?"
"Yeah, we talk all the tim-"
-delete-

Yeah, I can see a LOT of people doing exactly that.

MFauli

Tue, 12-07-2021, 05:53 AM

You're all ignoring the most important part why Orsted is a dumb mf: So he asks "do you know the man-god?" - what would a dangerous, evil apostle/follower answer to that?

I can tell you, what would NOT be the answer: A cheerful, shy smile with an unassuming "oh yes, I know him!".

Rudy made a 100% innocent impression in that scene. If Orsted was as reasonable as some of you claim, he'd have asked at least a couple more questions. There was zero risk for him after how Rudy answered the first question. He could have killed him at any given point, but first tried to gauge whether he truly is an enemy or not. And yet he chose to rush in and kill Rudy without knowing anything. Orsted is a total dumbass and asshole. And probably a horny simp, too, if some girl is the only one who can change his mind 180°.

Also, I'm not a nazi, okay? :(

Kraco

Tue, 12-07-2021, 07:56 AM

You're all ignoring the most important part why Orsted is a dumb mf: So he asks "do you know the man-god?" - what would a dangerous, evil apostle/follower answer to that?

It did work, though, didn't it? Rudeus gladly verified he knows the Man-God. That's all Orsted needed to know. As far as he's concerned, anyone who has interacted with the Man-God is to be killed, by the looks of it.

If Orsted was as reasonable as some of you claim, he'd have asked at least a couple more questions.

No, he's not reasonable at all. But since he's on a mission to hunt down the Man-God and people related to the Man-God, it's understandable (reasonable) that he attacked Rudeus, considering that mission. Since he normally can't converse with people due to his curse, I won't really blame him for having so poor communication skills. On the other hand, he's clearly also not super interested in long discussions.

Also, I'm not a nazi, okay? :(

My example was only related to WW2 topics, where lots of people think that German=Nazi. Just like Orsted thinks that anyone who knows the Man-God is automatically a follower and believer, and thus should die, according to his mission. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Orsted had accidentally killed someone who also hates the Man-God, but never got the chance to make it clear before getting killed by Orsted.

MFauli

Tue, 12-07-2021, 08:48 AM

It did work, though, didn't it? Rudeus gladly verified he knows the Man-God. That's all Orsted needed to know.

NO IT'S NOT, because then he wouldn't have changed his mind after literally LISTENING to someone's word. :/

DarthEnderX

Tue, 12-07-2021, 08:53 AM

NO IT'S NOT, because then he wouldn't have changed his mind after literally LISTENING to someone's word. :/You have no way of knowing that without knowing what it is she actually said.

You're all ignoring the most important part why Orsted is a dumb mf: So he asks "do you know the man-god?" - what would a dangerous, evil apostle/follower answer to that?Only if they're a willing, knowing follower. And not just an unwitting pawn like Rudy is.

MFauli

Tue, 12-07-2021, 09:23 AM

You have no way of knowing that without knowing what it is she actually said.

Are you saying I'm as dumb as Orsted then who refused to listen to Rudy? :D

Kraco

Tue, 12-07-2021, 09:42 AM

NO IT'S NOT, because then he wouldn't have changed his mind after literally LISTENING to someone's word. :/

You have never changed your mind about anything after hearing a convincing argument or gaining new information? Besides, the fact he revived Rudeus doesn't automatically mean he still wouldn't want Rudeus dead eventually. Like someone already said, Orsted didn't think much of killing someone quite randomly. Maybe for us it's a big deal, but for him, it's not. Maybe not any bigger a deal than you adding an item to the shopping basket at any web store, but then before paying changing your mind and removing the item from the shopping basket. End of story.

The woman was his companion, or something like that, so he naturally would listen to her more willingly than anyone else. Certainly more willingly than the person he was killing.

DarthEnderX

Tue, 12-07-2021, 09:46 AM

I wonder if the woman is another Otherworlder. Since Orstead's curse doesn't seem to effect her and she has a Japanese name.

KrayZ33

Tue, 12-07-2021, 03:19 PM

I wonder if the woman is another Otherworlder. Since Orstead's curse doesn't seem to effect her and she has a Japanese name.

Pretty sure that's the case.
She has a japanese name, as I mentioned earlier, as well.
The first one in the show so far.

I find it weird that there is a complaint about how Orsted does short work of Rudy.
If he were the MC of this show, I know for certain there would be complains about him not just ending Rudy and risking something. And there are conclusion about his character (or behavior) we know nothing about.
For all we know, he could be the savior of this world by doing what he does, while Rudy is the fool unknowingly ushering in the second age of the evil Man-God.

No idea where this "this is dumb"/"he is dumb" mindset or anything in that regard is coming from.
Eliminate the risk, ask the question later.
His follower probably made a good case to change his mind (otherwise she wouldn't have had that line in the end) and when you can bring them back from death's door or even revive them(?), where is the risk in doing so... or rather... what's objectively dumb or wrong doing it the way he did.

Buffalobiian

Tue, 12-07-2021, 08:06 PM

"Do you know Putin?"
"Yeah, we talk all the tim-"
-delete-

Yeah, I can see a LOT of people doing exactly that.

Eliminate the risk, ask the question later.

This is exactly what's wrong with this picture.

Tell me, if someone kills your neighbour kills another because the latter knew Putin, would be news be:

1) Man kills neighbour for knowing Putin, arrested by police, or

2) Man kills neighbour for knowing Putin, no charges pressed?

-What we know is that Dragon God wishes to kill Man-God.
-He identified that Rudy has heard of Man God.
-Rudy was partway through saying that he occasionally meets him in his dreams.
-Dragon God doesn't get the whole message, decides that Rudy was an Apostle and kills him.

This is the same dumb shit that Ghislaine's brother did when he fucked Rudy up for hugging the big ass dog.

KrayZ33

Wed, 12-08-2021, 12:53 AM

This is exactly what's wrong with this picture.

Tell me, if someone kills your neighbour kills another because the latter knew Putin, would be news be:

1) Man kills neighbour for knowing Putin, arrested by police, or

2) Man kills neighbour for knowing Putin, no charges pressed?

-What we know is that Dragon God wishes to kill Man-God.
-He identified that Rudy has heard of Man God.
-Rudy was partway through saying that he occasionally meets him in his dreams.
-Dragon God doesn't get the whole message, decides that Rudy was an Apostle and kills him.

This is the same dumb shit that Ghislaine's brother did when he fucked Rudy up for hugging the big ass dog.

How is that similar though.

Hugging the dog was considered defiling a holy beast and wasn't punished by death.
Knowing the Man-God is obviously not equal to knowing the leader of a country.

Rudy has obviously a special interaction with the Man-God, who knows how other humans interact with him, or if they even can.... or what happens when they interact with him.
What if it is similar to how the witch of Re:Zero works and they turn into "slaves" constantly trying to manipulate or convert others into followers. Maybe the eagerness to talk about him was already reason enough and considered dangerous.
We know far less about the situation than Orsted did/does and expect him to feel pity for the sheep that might already be lost?
If he is a time-traveler or something of the like (like, a time-loop or something), doesn't it stand to reason he knows way more than Rudy does?
What if he is in constant battle that has been ongoing for a while and the Man-God is sending apostles to alter events in his favor and Orsted tries to stop that?

We have absolutely nothing to judge them with, or rather, we only have 1 part of the whole puzzle, which is Rudy's POV, which is not only extremely limited but also already influenced by the target Orsted wants to destroy and we also know nothing about the Man-God... who, for a god, doesn't seem to be as influential as he'd like right now, or maybe, he uses Rudy exactly because he is an otherwordler that has a special interaction with this world.. such as not being affected by curses, which apparently his enemy, Orsted has multiples of.
Not to mention that the first time Man-God appears was right after rudy was consumed by the calamity as far as I remember.

Why are we ignoring all this.. just because Rudy is the MC?
That's not something the other characters know.

Kraco

Wed, 12-08-2021, 01:05 AM

This is exactly what's wrong with this picture.
-What we know is that Dragon God wishes to kill Man-God.
-He identified that Rudy has heard of Man God.
-Rudy was partway through saying that he occasionally meets him in his dreams.
-Dragon God doesn't get the whole message, decides that Rudy was an Apostle and kills him.

This is the same dumb shit that Ghislaine's brother did when he fucked Rudy up for hugging the big ass dog.

That isekai isn't comparable to Australia or any other developed country from our world. It's an undeveloped world. Slavery is very much a thing. Royal princes are free to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't majorly hurt the royal house. The best fighters in the world are called gods. Bandits are free to be killed by anyone, no police, judges, or courts of law needed.

But if you want to talk about Putin, then sure, let's talk about Putin. Putin can order anyone in Russia (or outside of Russia) to be assassinated. If the person has the audacity of not dying, they will be thrown into a prison, being guilty of not actually dying when killed (I guess Emiya Shirou would find that shocking). But still Russia is more developed than the isekai in this series because it's only Putin and his gang who have the power of deciding between life and death in Russia.

I'd say Orsted is very systematic and proceeds logically if he not only wants to kill the Man-God but also everyone associated with him. Just like Putin wants to kill all serious political opponents and silence their supporters. The only way to utterly remove someone is to make everyone forget such a person ever even existed.

DarthEnderX

Wed, 12-08-2021, 02:29 AM

Tell me, if someone kills your neighbour kills another because the latter knew Putin, would be news be:

1) Man kills neighbour for knowing Putin, arrested by police, or

2) Man kills neighbour for knowing Putin, no charges pressed?Uh, I don't think anyone here is suggesting dude wouldn't go to jail for this in the real world, but this ain't the real world. There's no police, no law, and they couldn't do shit to him even if there were.

MFauli

Wed, 12-08-2021, 05:06 AM

How is that similar though.

Hugging the dog was considered defiling a holy beast and wasn't punished by death.
Knowing the Man-God is obviously not equal to knowing the leader of a country.

Rudy has obviously a special interaction with the Man-God, who knows how other humans interact with him, or if they even can.... or what happens when they interact with him.
What if it is similar to how the witch of Re:Zero works and they turn into "slaves" constantly trying to manipulate or convert others into followers. Maybe the eagerness to talk about him was already reason enough and considered dangerous.
We know far less about the situation than Orsted did/does and expect him to feel pity for the sheep that might already be lost?
If he is a time-traveler or something of the like (like, a time-loop or something), doesn't it stand to reason he knows way more than Rudy does?
What if he is in constant battle that has been ongoing for a while and the Man-God is sending apostles to alter events in his favor and Orsted tries to stop that?

We have absolutely nothing to judge them with, or rather, we only have 1 part of the whole puzzle, which is Rudy's POV, which is not only extremely limited but also already influenced by the target Orsted wants to destroy and we also know nothing about the Man-God... who, for a god, doesn't seem to be as influential as he'd like right now, or maybe, he uses Rudy exactly because he is an otherwordler that has a special interaction with this world.. such as not being affected by curses, which apparently his enemy, Orsted has multiples of.
Not to mention that the first time Man-God appears was right after rudy was consumed by the calamity as far as I remember.

Why are we ignoring all this.. just because Rudy is the MC?
That's not something the other characters know.

Why are you ignoring that Orsted acted without knowing ANYTHING?

And then, hallelujah, after he LISTENED to someone, decided that killing Rudy was wrong!

You guys defending Orsted are so obviously wrong, it's hilarious.

DarthEnderX

Wed, 12-08-2021, 05:54 AM

And then, hallelujah, after he LISTENED to someone, decided that killing Rudy was wrong!I doubt she convinced him it was morally wrong. More likely she convinced him that leaving him alive might be useful.

You guys defending Orsted are so obviously wrong, it's hilarious.It's not so much about defending Orstead as it is finding you guys' outrage to be really weird. A mysterious character showed up and tried to kill our heroes. Like, that's pretty common, but you guys are really pissed off at this guy for some reason.

Honestly, it kinda feels like we got some manga prophets who know more reasons to hate this guy...

If anything, I'm more pissed at Rudy, for ignoring Rujierd's "Do't do anything!" and almost getting everyone killed.

MFauli

Wed, 12-08-2021, 06:21 AM

but you guys are really pissed off at this guy for some reason.

Or for the reasons already mentioned.

PS: I haven't read the manga nor LN.

KrayZ33

Wed, 12-08-2021, 07:19 AM

Why are you ignoring that Orsted acted without knowing ANYTHING?
You guys defending Orsted are so obviously wrong, it's hilarious.

The only thing that is funny is your duality, as always, because in every other show you would complain about "letting the evil guy" stay alive or letting him take advantage of the situation, or trying to talk it out when the enemy is right in front of him
People don't start acting on only 100% guarantees. Not sure what the problem here is in a world where death is around every corner.

He asked questions, Rudeus made statements and also asked questions, he got information, he decided this information puts Rudeus as someone not to be trusted and makes quick work of him. Not sure why you just decided to completely ignore their conversation that made Rudeus look weird as hell (not just to Orsted, but to his companions as well). So much information was given there but you chose to ignore it I guess, just because it hasn't been said in words?
He is obviously a character that makes decision quickly and fast. Why? We don't know yet, maybe because he probably has made the experience that this is necessary or simply because he doesn't know any better as I could imagine that when the common exchange with other beings, even as strong as the Sperd is: "DON'T COME ANY CLOSER, WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU, GO AWAY" or when people run away from him all the time, I doubt he gets to know people properly?

If he is at "war" with Man-God, I don't see why he should leave the enemy alive in the first place. Does it really matter if Rudeus is working willingly or unwillingly for the enemy?

Orsted doesn't claim to be a good person or even a good guy. He could be evil or the good guy, he could be as mad as Laplace, Laplace on the other hand might not even be bad, other people tell us he is bad... but does that even amount to anything?
Again, we have absolutely no background information of what has happened to him or who he actually is.
If we already knew, this would be extremely boring by comparison. Getting to see a character and being able to judge him properly in the first 2 minutes of a show is a disappointment, nothing more.

It seems like you forgot that a good character in a story doesn't always have to act correctly or in a way you would do. Someone isn't "dumb" just because he acts rashly. Someone isn't dumb when he kills someone instead of knocking him out or whatever, neither is it necessarily evil. We know too little of the world, the characters, and the whole situation to make any decent judgement here.
We don't even know why he is where he is because he didn't start in an icy region, he was in some kind of Desert-Mountain area - alone as well - the first time we saw him in the show, as far as I remember.

MFauli

Wed, 12-08-2021, 08:29 AM

Acting rashly is a commonly agree dumb trait. Like, what are you on about.

KrayZ33

Wed, 12-08-2021, 08:47 AM

Acting rashly is a commonly agree dumb trait. Like, what are you on about.

Actually it's not, rofl, all you have to do is to give it a postive vibe/outcome and the same deed turns into "acting swiftly". And it's not "dumb" it's a character flaw. Negative traits aren't "dumb" traits, they are weaknesses.
But I see you are not really interested in a discussion anyway, as you ignored like all the points.

So don't bother unless you actually want to bring forth more than:
"XY is *dumb* because I don't agree with it"

Or are you confusing dumb with "bad" or something due to a language barrier? Honest question because non native english speakers like you and myself usually tend to use way harsher words "shit/fuck/dumb/idiot" when they actually mean something else, which is why I have to keep reviewing my posts to get the point across and not sound completely aggressive all the time.

Saying he is a fool is different from saying he is an idiot.
Saying he acted rashly is different from saying he is retarded.
Saying he is bonkers is different from saying he is brutal.

First and foremost though, you are currently doing what he was doing. Judging rashly without enough background information or in your case, willfully ignoring it even to some degree.
That's "dumb", if you get my drift.

MFauli

Wed, 12-08-2021, 09:55 AM

Kraco

Wed, 12-08-2021, 10:45 AM

He didn't act rashly. He acted promptly, decisively, swiftly. Pick your choice. That's how your act if you are a fighter. Only a second-rate hunter licks his lips before pulling the trigger. Making the wrong decision in a fight is not the worst mistake: making no decision is the worst. That's how Rudeus acts, btw, because his soul is still the one of a Japanese civilian. Cliches aside, Orsted's on a mission to slay the Man-God and the Man-God's associates, which is exactly what he did. The fact he reversed his decision after hearing Nanahoshi out doesn't change anything. If the woman hadn't been there, Rudeus would have been left dead and Orsted would have walked away just as satisfied, having achieved what he wanted, which is a Man-God apostle killed, as far as Orsted is concerned.

KrayZ33

Wed, 12-08-2021, 10:48 AM

"Acting rashly" means you act without thinking, which leaves the outcome of your action up to the heavens. That is why it makes you dumb. You don't get to say its not dumb because it "could" have a positive outcome. Could have a negative outcome, too. You don't know, because you acted ... rashly.

The Orsted defense becomes worse and worse lol

I'm saying that you can't really differentiate between that and the same action with a positive outcome which is called "acting swiftly" if you have 0 understanding of the situation.
And no, it doesn't make you "dumb". It's a character weakness if it happens too often, as mentioned earlier.
As I mentioned earlier as well, humans don't act only after the outcome is 100% guaranteed.

Are you "dumb" because you judge Orsted without knowing anything about him?
You saw him act, and judge him without any consideration of what is actually happeneing or could be happening?
It's like you are getting to witness an ongoing fight and one of them shoots the other guy and you expect the guy shooting to be a killer, no matter what.
Please, for the love of god, expand your horizon and accept that not everything is like you think it is.

When it comes to books, stories, TV Shows, do you honestly expect everything that is happening is as obvious at it looks?
Are you kidding me?
Are you telling me you don't think every single word and action was placed intentionally?

The very fact that he acted after he heard Rudeus knows the Man-God already means something.
And not necessarily that he is dumb or rash or whatever, not even that he hates the Man-God.
It's a short cameo of a character that will obviously be important to the story at some point and you believe his actions were only meant to show how much of an idiot he is?

It's only when you actually understand that authors and directors use everything in these situations, to give you a lot of background information you have yet in front of you to be properly explained.
It can be as simple as a quirk that is later used to identify a character when it is needed.
It can be a certain action that hints at something in the past, or the lack of an action that hints to something as well.
Etc. etc. etc.

There have been so many details hidden in these answers and the following scene with the Man-God, that someone would be hard-pressed to not accept it as 100% intentional.

Mentioning the name of the masked character - which is japanese
Mentioning that otherworlders don't fear him (so he and the girl doesn't?)
Mentioning that there are curses affecting him (who did it to him, does he hate Man-God due to that?)
Mentioning that Man-God can't see him due to that curse (why??)
Mentioning of "Apostles"
The fact that Orsted knows about the Man-God showing up in dreams.
His reaction the calamity.
His comments on characters he has never met, even knowing their names.
Asking Rudeus to call the Man-God "BEFORE" he dies (if it was translated correctly)
His lack of knowledge about Rudeus, even though he seems to know everyone and everything else
Mentioning Laplace and being able to tell Rudy's mana reserves from his spell.
The fact that he summoned a dragon shield, has scale-like texture next to his eyes.
The fact that he noticed that Rudeus can look him into the eye.
Mentioning that he expects Rudy to know proper healing magic
The fact that they have shown the girl saying that something is bothering her.
The fact that the girl is wearing a mask
The fact that the Man-King knows so much about Ostred even though his curses seem to keep him away from Orsted
The fact that he revived the kid he just killed.

Anyway, when I wrote this down I rewatched the scene once more and noticed that the best girl, Eris, was swiping away Ruijerd's backpack right when the fight started so he could fight properly.
Yeah... let's pretend the Author/Director doesn't care about details. The list could've gone on for quite a bit.

MFauli

Wed, 12-08-2021, 11:09 AM

He didn't act rashly. He acted promptly, decisively, swiftly.

I meet you at night. I feel threatened. I instantly kill you. Oh, turns out you were just a peaceful fellow civilian. But I acted promptly, decisively, swiftly, so good me.

/s

KrayZ33

Wed, 12-08-2021, 12:05 PM

I meet you at night. I feel threatened. I instantly kill you. Oh, turns out you were just a peaceful fellow civilian. But I acted promptly, decisively, swiftly, so good me.

/s

"I meet someone at night, I've seen his kind 500 times already, they never shut up about their stupid Man-God, had to fight them every single time - they are strong, strong enough to hurt those around me, they killed my kin when I wasn't fast enough... this time I'm not taking chances."

just one out of a million alternatives that doesn't pretend the character is a white canvas and in a vacuum.

David75

Wed, 12-08-2021, 12:07 PM

Rudy really is not tuned to a world where you can lose your life over the wrong reaction/word.
He's not careful at all and speaks freely to someone he just meets when he was told to be shut up and not move.
I'll just remember that sequence of events as another lesson, just learn to read the atmosphere, listen to your close ones... or become strong enough you can deal with consequences.
Or somehow it shows how immature he is, regardless of his spiritual age.

Orsted is just a tool for that sequence of events. Please don't catfight around that, haha

Ryllharu

Wed, 12-08-2021, 04:30 PM

You guys defending Orsted are so obviously wrong, it's hilarious.

But it was such a cool 5 minute fight! And like, there was blood and stuff!

The badly written character interactions of the main cast and the truly ancient Generic Shonen cliché of the "fateful" (read: random with zero build up) encounter with powerspike bad guy from the series billed as the "Grandfather of Isekai" doesn't matter.
:rolleyes:

edit:
This episode was a significant step backward for a series that has otherwise actually lived up to its legend of quality.

And since it still isn't the actual first modern isekai (just in the shonen/seinen genres), I hold it to a significantly higher standard due to the reputation that its LN fans give it.

Buffalobiian

Wed, 12-08-2021, 09:54 PM

Rudy really is not tuned to a world where you can lose your life over the wrong reaction/word.
He's not careful at all and speaks freely to someone he just meets when he was told to be shut up and not move.

While I can agree that Rudy doesn't guard his mouth as well as he could, the "shut up and not move" advice he was given here is not based on sound logic.

Orsted has a curse on him that makes people fear or hate him without even knowing who he is or how strong he is. It's an irrational response. He's got Fear as a passive ability.

They're not actually fearing him because he's #2 or known to be lethal.

shinta|hikari

Wed, 12-08-2021, 10:57 PM

But when the strongest person in your party warns you of something, you should listen.

DarthEnderX

Wed, 12-08-2021, 11:43 PM

What's really going on here is MFauli sees himself in sex creep characters and feels attacked when they get curb stomped.

the truly ancient Generic Shonen cliché of the "fateful" (read: random with zero build up) encounter with powerspike bad guy from the series billed as the "Grandfather of Isekai" doesn't matter. Uh, it's called a "wondering monster". A doi!

KrayZ33

Thu, 12-09-2021, 02:40 AM

But it was such a cool 5 minute fight! And like, there was blood and stuff!

The badly written character interactions of the main cast and the truly ancient Generic Shonen cliché of the "fateful" (read: random with zero build up) encounter with powerspike bad guy from the series billed as the "Grandfather of Isekai" doesn't matter.
:rolleyes:

edit:
This episode was a significant step backward for a series that has otherwise actually lived up to its legend of quality.

And since it still isn't the actual first modern isekai (just in the shonen/seinen genres), I hold it to a significantly higher standard due to the reputation that its LN fans give it.

Nah, I actually think it's the opposite and the whole encounter was written well. It's not a shonen trope either. It's a typical western book exposition as well and probably included in pretty much all the best-sellers and genre defining stories you can find.
If it's not a singular being like in Jobless, it's an overwhelming force that has to be overcome.
No need to belittle what is commonly used to get the audience hooked, even less need to belittle isekai or japenese story writers or LN fans for that matter. It's done that way because it works. And all the big-omega-chad book writers do it as well and in similar fashion.

What kind of build up do you expect from a build up though.
This is the build up to a future interaction and a new story arc, not some conclusion to it?
On top of that, it's a story written with a limited POV, we only get very little knowledge outside of Rudy's perspective. Which is the kind of story-type where this is very common as well.

What I hold high is that the typical trope of "look at this guy, he has beaten our tough guy easily, so he must be super strong" has been enhanced by additional world building and adding an overarching storyline to the whole thing.

Kraco

Thu, 12-09-2021, 03:26 AM

But it was such a cool 5 minute fight! And like, there was blood and stuff!

The badly written character interactions of the main cast and the truly ancient Generic Shonen cliché of the "fateful" (read: random with zero build up) encounter with powerspike bad guy from the series billed as the "Grandfather of Isekai" doesn't matter.
:rolleyes:

edit:
This episode was a significant step backward for a series that has otherwise actually lived up to its legend of quality.

And since it still isn't the actual first modern isekai (just in the shonen/seinen genres), I hold it to a significantly higher standard due to the reputation that its LN fans give it.

This was a pretty consistent event in Rudeus's life, and thus in the big picture of the whole series. He has found himself numerous times in a situation where he's no longer in control, where he's no longer the main character of the whole world. He just somehow had to get through them. Since you don't like how Orsted appeared out of nowhere to do significant things, I reckon you also don't like Ruijerd, who also super conveniently appeared out of nowhere to help Rudeus and Eris cross the demon continent. The emperor loli of the demon world also appeared out of nowhere and scooped an eye out of Rudeus head. In fact that encounter with Kishirika Kishirisu is quite similar to this with Orsted. In both Rudeus kind of had no control over the situation, yet it was he who started them, something very significant happened, but then it was all over very soon and the other party disappeared.

I don't know what exactly Ryll expected from this scene, but it was his expectations vs reality that failed, not the story. That's how I see it.

KrayZ33

Thu, 12-09-2021, 04:06 AM

good points there - let's face it.

Just like it's cool because there was blood in it.
it's cool to hate on stuff for no real reason.

Ryllharu

Thu, 12-09-2021, 04:09 AM

Since you don't like how Orsted appeared out of nowhere to do significant things, I reckon you also don't like Ruijerd, who also super conveniently appeared out of nowhere to help Rudeus and Eris cross the demon continent. The emperor loli of the demon world also appeared out of nowhere and scooped an eye out of Rudeus head.

I don't know what exactly Ryll expected from this scene, but it was his expectations vs reality that failed, not the story. That's how I see it.
What I expected? Better writing each time this happens. Orsted might as well have been a random ass red dragon. That would have been better, because they actually talked about it earlier in the episode. Yes, I am aware he is the "dragon god" he could have been literally anything or anyone else and it would not have made one fucking bit of difference. The fact that he turned around and saved him immediately for arbitrary reasoning from a different character with zero build up either is worse. This is the writing I would expect from Bleach, post-Soul Society when he had obviously run out of properly formed ideas.

I am consistent, yes.

Cons: The Ruijerd storyline. Zzzzzzzz.

Bad stuff first then. The Ruijerd storyline is suddenly and abruptly completely boring as shit. I don't care how you want to count Mushoku Tensei as the "godfather of isekai" the whole, 'You mustn't kill! Even the bad guys!?' plot thread is so old and trite at this point it's not even interesting.

Mushoku Tensei started in 2012/2014, and this trope was old in anime THEN. It was old in 1992 for Terminator 2. It was old in Dragon Ball. I'm honestly not even interested in seeing what (if anything), the series will attempt to do as a different spin. I feel like I've seen every possible iteration of the trope already, and it isn't even an interesting or compelling one to begin with.

It wasn't so much that they had a loli demon, it was the complete tonal shift she brought along.

From a generally grounded and well rooted series to Panty & Stocking type slapstick.

Her section felt like a bonus gaiden manga chapter that's either crossovers, deliberate continuity breaks for fun (e.g. All of the Black Lagoon ones), Momotaro, or Alice in Wonderland themed.

edit:

Just like it's cool because there was blood in it.
it's cool to hate on stuff for no real reason.

When MFauli and I actually agree on something like this, you should reconsider the depth of your own opinion.

KrayZ33

Thu, 12-09-2021, 04:17 AM

snip

Who are these god-tier writers you read that do better?
Why do you have these expectations, or rather, from whom?

Whether it's Orsted that shows up like this, or the powerful Jedi that is called Yoda on a remote planet that can teach MC to defeat the big bad guy.
You don't have to avoid tropes at all cost. What exactly was the problem? That is what I still don't get because so far it feels like you hate the story telling device because you realized it is a story telling device, but after reading and seeing movies alot, that's what happens naturally.

The fact that he turned around and saved him immediately for arbitrary reasoning from a different character with zero build up either is worse.

There is no objectively false/poor writing with this. How does that reaction even require build up and is not part of building the character itself?
Why do you seek explanations for everything that happens the second it happens?
How does it not make you wonder what the girl could've said?

As for Demon Goddess and Ruijerd.
Do people even realize that the Man-God lead Rudy to them? They don't really appear out of no where without any build up either due to that, or rather, they exist in this world and Rudy is sheepishly following advice from someone he knows nothing about.
And I fail to see why people always want the most common "every day" character as their preferred archtype.
That's super boring. I don't want to look at a bunch of every-day people. I want to see people that have special interest or special points of views.
i.e. "a normal being would have killed the Emperor and Darth Vader here to end the suffering" - f- that. That's not interesting. Is it? The hero is a hero because he is not normal. The villain is a villain because he is not normal.

This scene has some effect that is different from the effect it would have when they met in a bar. And that is all there is to it.

edit:

When MFauli and I actually agree on something like this, you should reconsider the depth of your own opinion.
Oh wow. Seriously? Oh my, oh my. I have you know that you are quite similar to him in a lot of ways, more so than you'd potentially like, especially whenever something comes up you dislike or like as there is no way to convince you otherwise and not even an attempt to see the other side. I will admit that I'm similar in that regard, but at least I'm not purposefully ignoring things that counter my argument and seek to find what the intention was when something happens. Or if I unknowingly do, maybe we should just accept that this are mere opinions no matter what and no one has to reconsider anything. Maybe you should just stop to belittle whatever you don't agree with (like you did just now, or did you not?) and we would be much further ahead in this discussion.

The irony of his comment still stands there right on this page, the other (which was a random attack out of nowhere where he somehow thought I was talking in first person or something) has been removed, sadly.
Talking about how "dumb" it is to judge something when in fact he does the same.
You on other hand, I have to say, didn't bring forth much other than "this is bad writing" for this scene in particular.

For example
Yes, I am aware he is the "dragon god" he could have been literally anything or anyone else and it would not have made one fucking bit of difference.
Was that supposed to say something to underline your point of view? Why did you even mention it?
He is called Dragon God, there are sword and combat styles that are called after them, as we have seen with Paul and some other minor villains so far. If he is one of such, it does at least tell me something and does make a difference.
Stop giving shit to something were it isn't due and I'm fine with it already.

MFauli

Thu, 12-09-2021, 05:22 AM

there is no way to convince you otherwise and not even an attempt to see the other side.

... from the "side" that shows no attempt to understand the other side either, lol.

Can you guys really not understand how random/arbitrary/meaningless the whole scene is?

- hero party wanders around
- powerful entity appears
- "kills" hero without listening to anything but "man-god"
- screen fades to black
- hero is alive
- explanation: powerful entity healed him
- why: because powerful entity LISTENED.
- the end

Whether or not you liked the scene, is it that hard to see why others didn't like it? For me, it's a stereotypical shounen scene (Ryll's Bleach comparison is perfect) where something significant happens, but then it actually didn't happen, because the author knows that he'd have to rewrite the whole story. It's just a boring ass "cool, strong guy strikes down hero with much violence!" scene that has no consequence afterwards (spare me your "Eris has a trauma now and Rudy will be more careful from now" excuses).

Again, outcomes that would have made the scene much better imo:
- someone else appearing and healing Rudy (Roxy, his mom, Sylphie, a new character, maybe Eris exhausting herself and healing him, anyone)
- Rudy actually dying, man-god giving him another body (someone who's already 12 yo or so) and going back. Having to prove to Eris and Ruijierd that it's really him. Would have been fun and interesting. And it would have given actual significance to Orsted's attack: Now it'd truly appear as if Rudy is some freakish man-god apostle.
- the worst option, but still better than what we got: Rudy getting his shit together and showing what his magic is really capable of.

What we got, however, was random whatever.

KrayZ33

Thu, 12-09-2021, 05:36 AM

... from the "side" that shows no attempt to understand the other side either, lol.

Can you guys really not understand how random/arbitrary/meaningless the whole scene is?

- hero party wanders around
- powerful entity appears
- "kills" hero without listening to anything but "man-god"
- screen fades to black
- hero is alive
- explanation: powerful entity healed him
- why: because powerful entity LISTENED.
- the end

Of course it's random (as quite literally every other encounter or so he had so far is), but why do you think it's meaningless when it's so clearly not? As I have mentioned multiple times already, this conflict told us more about the world and upcoming story than the last 20 episodes or so. These "creatures" and beings exist in that world, that has been established as well since forever. And the bold part is something I can't follow in the slightest where this is coming from as a point of dislike?

He doesn't listen to everyone, he listens to those he thinks are worthy listening to. What's the huge deal?
Isn't that like a normal thing to do, just like you respond a "hello" with "hello", normally? For all the dislike of the abnormal und unlikely, this sure comes up often even though it's completely normal/likely.

Whether or not you liked the scene, is it that hard to see why others didn't like it? For me, it's a stereotypical shounen scene (Ryll's Bleach comparison is perfect) where something significant happens, but then it actually didn't happen, because the author knows that he'd have to rewrite the whole story. It's just a boring ass "cool, strong guy strikes down hero with much violence!" scene that has no consequence afterwards (spare me your "Eris has a trauma now and Rudy will be more careful from now" excuses).

Even though Rudy got healed, everything still happened. He didn't disappear from that planet, he is walking around. Aside from these "excuses" you came up with that I haven't made, these too are consequences you choose to ignore, even though they could be important for their character development. Exactly my point of "willfully ignoring" stuff that happens because you disagree with it.
Why would the author even have to "rewrite" the story, he was *writing* it the way he intended it.
This is clearly not some afterthought added into the whole story but a major plotpoint.

Again, outcomes that would have made the scene much better imo:
- someone else appearing and healing Rudy (Roxy, his mom, Sylphie, a new character, maybe Eris exhausting herself and healing him, anyone)
"How convenient... that someone else was there"
It would neither improve nor make this scene worse. I don't see the connection to how it would improve it. Explain that to me without ignoring what HIM healing RUDY means or potentially could mean.

- Rudy actually dying, man-god giving him another body (someone who's already 12 yo or so) and going back. Having to prove to Eris and Ruijierd that it's really him. Would have been fun and interesting. And it would have given actual significance to Orsted's attack: Now it'd truly appear as if Rudy is some freakish man-god apostle.

So you want to write your own story? What if this isn't the direction this story wants to go in the slightest? Fun and interesting is something a many things are, not just your delusion.

- the worst option, but still better than what we got: Rudy getting his shit together and showing what his magic is really capable of.

He already did it this way as well, but here you complain about shonen stuffand want to fix them with even more shonen stuff. The fucking irony... again

MFauli

Thu, 12-09-2021, 05:59 AM

Of course it's random (as quite literally every other encounter or so he had so far is), but why do you think it's meaningless when it's so clearly not? As I have mentioned multiple times already, this conflict told us more about the world and upcoming story than the last 20 episodes or so. These "creatures" and beings exist in that world, that has been established as well since forever. And the bold part is something I can't follow in the slightest where this is coming from as a point of dislike?

He doesn't listen to everyone, he listens to those he thinks are worthy listening to. What's the huge deal?
Isn't that like a normal thing to do, just like you respond a "hello" with "hello", normally? For all the dislike of the abnormal und unlikely, this sure comes up often even though it's completely normal/likely.

Even though Rudy got healed, everything still happened. He didn't disappear from that planet, he is walking around. Aside from these "excuses" you came up with that I haven't made, these too are consequences you choose to ignore, even though they could be important for their character development. Exactly my point of "willfully ignoring" stuff that happens because you disagree with it.
Why would the author even have to "rewrite" the story, he was *writing* it the way he intended it.
This is clearly not some afterthought added into the whole story but a major plotpoint.

"How convenient... that someone else was there"
It would neither improve nor make this scene worse. I don't see the connection to how it would improve it. Explain that to me without ignoring what HIM healing RUDY means or potentially could mean.

So you want to write your own story? What if this isn't the direction this story wants to go in the slightest? Fun and interesting is something a many things are, not just your delusion.

He already did it this way as well, but here you complain about shonen stuffand want to fix them with even more shonen stuff. The fucking irony... again

What I get from your posting is that you care more about winning an argument on the internet, rather than understanding any of my points. "So you want to write your own story?" - no, I gave a better alternative. If the author writes himself into a corner where the "best" solution he can come up with is the villain himself healing Rudy, then that's the author's issue.

KrayZ33

Thu, 12-09-2021, 06:04 AM

What I get from your posting is that you care more about winning an argument on the internet, rather than understanding any of my points. "So you want to write your own story?" - no, I gave a better alternative. If the author writes himself into a corner where the "best" solution he can come up with is the villain himself healing Rudy, then that's the author's issue.

No not at all. It's not a better alternative, it's only for you(!). You write a completely different plot. What do you expect me to answer with other than that???

What kind of corner are you even talking about? He (the author) could've not killed Rudy but decided to do it and heal him.
Do you *honestly*, like seriously, you start thinking about it and *honestly* believe that the Author wrote a scene that is like half a page long and said "Fuck, I messed up and now my charcter has to heal Rudy - Ah fuck it, I'm too lazy to redo that scene"???
Are you freaking serious? Do you know how old the source material is??? Do you think he wrote this and admitted the story in a live-ticker to his editors and what was once written can't be undone?

That's such a sad take, it's making me angry because of how stupid it is and how far from any reality whatsoever. This isn't an "opinion" of mine.. that's just not how it works, like how 1+1 doesn't equal 3.
That's a straight up made up delusion you came up with there.

THINK for a second and REALIZE, that this is what the author WANTED it to be because that behavior just means something DIFFERENT to what YOU want it to be. There is absolutely no helping you if you think the Author made a mistake and has written himself in a corner by a - what YOU call YOURSELF - random encounter of which it's meaning has yet to be explained properly.

To be able to write yourself in a corner, you need to have a situation where the outcome is set in stone or.... have something that could possibly lead to such a situation. So please, for the love of god, come up with something better. This was by far the worst take you've given so far. The very fact that he could've spawned in Sylphie there that is on some kind of mission. A silly idea that you came up with yourself even, and thought it would've been better, already means that he/she didn't write himself in a corner.

Fuck no - in all honesty and objectivity god gave to humankind..

Kraco

Thu, 12-09-2021, 08:18 AM

I am consistent, yes.

You certainly are. I wouldn't have checked your old posts. You are still watching, though, despite disliking much of the story.

As for Demon Goddess and Ruijerd.
Do people even realize that the Man-God lead Rudy to them?

That's the bare minimum of lead-in if you want to call it that. From purely the writing point of view, it still did happen very conveniently for Rudeus. He didn't really need to work for it, or anything. Nor did the Man-God. Neither could the Man-God affect Ruijerd or Kishirika Kishirisu. After the event in this ep, the Man-God said he can't see the Dragon God, so he couldn't warn Rudeus about him, but for all we know, the Man-God did foresee this and told Rudeus nothing precisely so that this meeting would happen. If you ask me, the Man-God is more like a villain, instead of Orsted.

What I get from your posting is that you care more about winning an argument on the internet, rather than understanding any of my points. "So you want to write your own story?" - no, I gave a better alternative. If the author writes himself into a corner where the "best" solution he can come up with is the villain himself healing Rudy, then that's the author's issue.

Haha, writes himself into a corner? You can't write yourself into a corner in a single scene. He doesn't write this live, real time, in front of an audience. If he wasn't happy with the scene and if it didn't suit his purposes, he would have changed or even removed the whole thing. An author writing themselves into a corner is a more complicated process that happens over a longer period of time. Typically it happens if a story turns out to be longer than it was originally supposed to be (extremely common in shounen manga). One of the most typical such problems is power creep (extremely common in shounen manga).

It was already said that this was nothing but Orsted's introduction. This was the foreshadowing of things to happen later with him. What happened here was nothing but a basis for their next meeting, whenever that will happen. It was a pretty rough introduction, with Rudeus experiencing death, but it was still nothing but an introduction. How much do you demand from an introduction? It did fulfill its purpose of making Orsted look like a hostile giant in Rudeus's eyes, which means he needs to get stronger if he ever dreams of confronting him again. Yet it also didn't make Orsted look totally unreasonable because the woman's words could affect him and Rudeus wasn't left dead.

DarthEnderX

Thu, 12-09-2021, 08:18 AM

Can you guys really not understand how random/arbitrary/meaningless the whole scene is?I mean...I assume the scene's purpose is to establish who this future important character is, what their motivation is and exactly where they fall on the power scale.

To which, "Orstead the Dragon God.", "Killing the Man God.", and "Much higher than Rudy.", have all been firmly established.

fireheart

Thu, 12-09-2021, 09:00 AM

MFauli

Thu, 12-09-2021, 09:12 AM

THINK for a second and REALIZE, that this is what the author WANTED it to be

And I criticize that.

KrayZ33

Thu, 12-09-2021, 10:53 AM

And I criticize that.

You can criticize what you want.
You can even dislike it if you want.
What you shouldn't do is making up all the wrong/non existent reasons or willfully ignoring plot and discussion points made in that scene, just so you can justify hating it.

Kraco

Thu, 12-09-2021, 11:50 AM

As someone who has read the WN (Not the LN) like 10 years ago I don't remember having any particular reactions to Orsted healing Rudeus. Only thing I remember was wondering how he knew everyone and their futures if everyone is scared shitless of him and thought that was the hardest thing to accept at face value. It's kinda absurd to imagine him for some reason sitting down with Paul and Zenith, having some tea and discussing their children and lineage while they're quaking in their boots.

Anyway from reading KrayZ33 and Ryllharus posts Orsted reminds/sounds a lot like MCs in all the generic Manwhas I've been reading lately where they go back in time. Mostly the whole knowledge of certain characters and their future/importance and reaction to the unknown variable, usually the unknown variable isn't an important variable at all and the MC more or less ignores it. So the comparison is basically that Mushoku becomes a story about that unknown variable that the MC decided to ignore/not include in his party, the idea makes it more entertaining in my mind actually.

I assumed that since he's called a Dragon God, he has some supernatural ability of divination to figure out things about people, their past, present, and maybe the future to some degree. Kind of like he could right-click on people and select Properties. That's also how the other god, Man-God, seems to be operating when guiding Rudeus (for his own amusement). However, apparently Orsted couldn't read Rudeus much, and when he checked the info on Paul and Zenith, the properties only listed two kids.

Ryllharu

Thu, 12-09-2021, 03:46 PM

Anyway from reading KrayZ33 and Ryllharus posts Orsted reminds/sounds a lot like MCs in all the generic Manwhas I've been reading lately where they go back in time. Mostly the whole knowledge of certain characters and their future/importance and reaction to the unknown variable, usually the unknown variable isn't an important variable at all and the MC more or less ignores it. So the comparison is basically that Mushoku becomes a story about that unknown variable that the MC decided to ignore/not include in his party, the idea makes it more entertaining in my mind actually.
I'm quite partial to the ones where the protagonist's recall isn't perfect, or their perspective on the events and people who lead to their prior demise was limited, though my personal favorite "do-over" manwha has both of those aspects as well as a third. The lead's partial success in fixing the do-over timeline results in their internal acknowledgement that the present state has deviated far enough now that they're in unknown territory again.

Re:zero did this on such a short scale that the suspense is ruined with the presumption of eventual success. The good manwha out there imply it really is a single new shot, and they have no idea where and what caused the prior timeline to spiral into their guaranteed doom. Erased handled that similarly well.

So it would kind of ruin it to reincarnate Rudy again unless it was from complete scratch, and he'd probably fuck up the relationship with Eris, Sylphie, or Roxy. Being revived by Orsted sucks, and I would have rather it be anyone else, including Eris or Rudy himself barely managing to survive and being forced to recover with healing over the next year or something. Instantly killed and instantly fixed really deflates the tension.

I assumed that since he's called a Dragon God, he has some supernatural ability of divination to figure out things about people, their past, present, and maybe the future to some degree. Kind of like he could right-click on people and select Properties. That's also how the other god, Man-God, seems to be operating when guiding Rudeus (for his own amusement). However, apparently Orsted couldn't read Rudeus much, and when he checked the info on Paul and Zenith, the properties only listed two kids.
In all our bickering, it's going ignored even though I've mentioned it twice, three times now below.

Orsted's dialogue confirmed there are time loops. Otherwise he would have no way of knowing that Paul Greyrat only ever has two daughters.

Rudy's presence means the Man-God has fucked with this present time loop (kinda hard to guess that a different deity intervened and isekai'd Rudy, but that would be a really crazy and interesting twist).

Kraco

Thu, 12-09-2021, 04:03 PM

In all our bickering, it's going ignored even though I've mentioned it twice, three times now below.

Orsted's dialogue confirmed there are time loops. Otherwise he would have no way of knowing that Paul Greyrat only ever has two daughters.

Rudy's presence means the Man-God has fucked with this present time loop (kinda hard to guess that a different deity intervened and isekai'd Rudy, but that would be a really crazy and interesting twist).

Huh. I did notice someone throwing around the idea of a time loop at some point, but time loops can be kind of an annoying plot element. Just how many loops would Orsted have to go through, anyway, to remember such random people? If that is really so, he might be a total lunatic already, and I wouldn't blame him even if he killed and revived Rudeus 10 times in a row. He could be Sheogorath's best buddy after enough time loops.

MFauli

Thu, 12-09-2021, 04:19 PM

If Orsted was a timetraveller who lived through thousands of loops, then I would understand his rash decision to kill Rudy.

But I didn't interpret what he said as time travel. Rather his ability is to know the past and future, like an all-seeing eye Odin-style.

Ryllharu

Thu, 12-09-2021, 04:32 PM

But I didn't interpret what he said as time travel. Rather his ability is to know the past and future, like an all-seeing eye Odin-style.
Suppose that hinges on the interpretation of the line where Orsted says he hasn't met Eris and Rujierd "yet" though...he literally just did.

fireheart

Thu, 12-09-2021, 06:31 PM

So it would kind of ruin it to reincarnate Rudy again unless it was from complete scratch, and he'd probably fuck up the relationship with Eris, Sylphie, or Roxy.

Sorry think there's some misunderstanding here. I meant that if you combine the way you and KrayZ33 describe Orsted it makes me think of those series. Since I read Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint not long ago my mind drew a Orsted=Junghyeok and his 1800+ regressions, only difference is that Rudeus isn't Dokja since he doesn't have any information. It's a bit off topic but curious since you mentioned a bit, which is your personal favorite "do-over" Manwha?

Ryllharu

Thu, 12-09-2021, 06:44 PM

Sorry think there's some misunderstanding here. I meant that if you combine the way you and KrayZ33 describe Orsted it makes me think of those series. Since I read Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint not long ago my mind drew a Orsted=Junghyeok and his 1800+ regressions, only difference is that Rudeus isn't Dokja since he doesn't have any information. It's a bit off topic but curious since you mentioned a bit, which is your personal favorite "do-over" Manwha?

No confusion here, aside from what I contributed with a partially directed reply. MFauli proposed giving Rudy a new body or reincarnating him again into the time loops that Orsted is obviously aware of. Using the subgenre of "do-over"/second chance type series (which I openly believe Korea does the best) I contemplated the pitfalls of that alternate solution to Orsted killing Rudy and then immediately reviving him.

The Fantasie of a Stepmother (https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=155294) (aka A Stepmother's Märchen) would be my personal favorite "do-over" manwha. At times sweet, typically charming, and at times tragic and utterly ruthless.

DarthEnderX

Thu, 12-09-2021, 10:35 PM

So it would kind of ruin it to reincarnate Rudy again unless it was from complete scratch, and he'd probably fuck up the relationship with Eris, Sylphie, or Roxy.The only way I'd find getting reincarnated again interesting is if he had to start over in a brand new world!

Gimmie that isekai! Character dies at the end of each saga and starts over on a new world each time.

Buffalobiian

Sun, 12-12-2021, 11:16 AM

Episode 22

-------------------

Well damn...

The transition from "I'm a normie" to I'm alone again, foreshadowed by that montage earlier in the episode sure hits.

I'd be disappointed if Rudy doesn't keep her hair or make it into something.

MFauli

Sun, 12-12-2021, 12:02 PM

So Eris had sex with an underage boy, then threw him away right after getting what she wanted. OKAY.

Agreed about keeping some of her hair.

Disappointed that the relationship drama was "solved" so easily. With Sylphie and Roxy on the menu, I would have liked to see Rudy and Eris talk out their future plans.

Ryllharu

Sun, 12-12-2021, 12:16 PM

I wouldn't call this a good episode, full of previous footage to pad out the time.

It spent 22 minutes to effectively run through three scenes.

I was at least hoping they were going to ask where Ghislaine was sent to, and they brushed right through it and just expositioned the death of Eris' family.

Not much else to say really, since this episode might as well have been 8 minutes long.

MFauli

Sun, 12-12-2021, 12:23 PM

Btw who's stronger, Rujierd or Ghislaine?

Kraco

Sun, 12-12-2021, 12:49 PM

Yeah, the episode was quite stretched, unfortunately, even if it was otherwise good, for the parts that mattered. It was left largely for the audience to ponder on their own the psychological effects of the revelations and decisions shown. It's pretty clear the impact from the Orsted encounter hasn't disappeared anywhere either. All in all, even if Rudeus feels immensely sorry for himself right now, he already met his dad, his two little sisters, and Lillia, plus her mother hasn't been found dead, so chances are she's also alive, somewhere. Eris, however, just received the news of the death of her whole family, plus was told to marry some scumbag to boot, for political reasons, when her grandfather was just executed for political reasons. Rudeus woke up as the happiest man after the deed, but I doubt Eris could really feel much happiness.

Ryllharu

Sun, 12-12-2021, 01:01 PM

"You and I aren't well-matched right now."

I guess that's better than, "It's not you, it's me," since you can read it as, "I'm going to come back, so be sure to keep up."

Kraco

Sun, 12-12-2021, 02:00 PM

since you can read it as, "I'm going to come back, so be sure to keep up."

Maybe she should have included that line as well, then. But Eris never had much interest in reading or writing. Or any academic at all.

KrayZ33

Sun, 12-12-2021, 05:49 PM

I thought the episode was rather good, but I'd love to hear more about Eris situation as well.

I don't think it felt dragged out. The whole situation would feel ridicilously plain if it were done even quicker.

1. They said their goodbyes to someone they traveled several years with.
2. The whole scenery had to sink in for them (and to some degree, also for us still) as well, since it's not just a small area that got basically wiped from existence but a whole city and the surrounding villages.
I think the amount of time they gave these 2 things was adequate.

If anything, I think the whole exposition done in the middle of the episode, was done way too fast, which I really disliked.

It's not like we *only* see everything from Rudy's perspective, so they could at least have had hinted at something other than the execution. Like... why is it important for the people in the first place that Eris and the Fatso get together. The region is under fatso's control anyway, right? What does it matter if Eris is by his side or not. Do they think they get special treatment and help if Eris can somehow control his hand by being his concubine?
What kind of help are they looking for, who is looking for it? etc. etc. etc.
If the King gave it to him, I can only imagine that he wants it rebuilt - and if he can't make it prosper again, wouldn't fatso also be beheaded for failing?
I'm basically saying that Eris and Rudy sleeping together and Eris going away on a "journey" (I sure hope it is a journey and not her going to that lord) would mean way more if we could understand the severity/consequences of her decision better.

I wonder what Rudy will even do next now. Search for his mother? Search for Sylphie?
Which one first.
I wonder how he will even be able to take that statement "You and I aren't well-balanced right now" - "was it me? what do I need to do?"

MFauli

Sun, 12-12-2021, 06:01 PM

I think the biggest thing Rudy will think about, will be "was it the right choice to sleep with her?".

I know I would. Because when THAT is the outcome of sex with a girl you like, then something was wrong.

Ryllharu

Sun, 12-12-2021, 06:05 PM

I don't think it felt dragged out. The whole situation would feel ridicilously plain if it were done even quicker.

They said their goodbyes to someone they traveled several years with.
The whole scenery had to sink in for them (and for us) as well, since it's not just a small area that got basically wiped from existence but a whole city and the surrounding villages.
I think the amount of time they gave these 2 things was adequate.

Minutes of reused footage set over music without dialogue is padding. No room for subjectivity on if it is or isn't. Same with the drawn-out goblet drop. I'm not complaining about the mood setting of them looking over the ruined landscape, because that is cleverly used to pad the episode length while evoking the somber finality of finding out there's no home to return to.

Like... why is it important for the people in the first place that Eris and the Fatso get together. The region is under fatso's control anyway, right? What does it matter if Eris is by his side or not. Do they think they get special treatment and help if Eris can somehow control his hand by being his concubine?
What kind of help are they looking for, who is looking for it? etc. etc. etc.
If the King gave it to him, I can only imagine that he wants it rebuilt - and if he can't make it prosper again, wouldn't fatso also be beheaded for failing?
It's because it is Eris. Eris' mom was hot. It's likely that Eris will also be quite stunning. If properly broken and not the furious warrior we know her to be, she'd be a suitable ornament for the fatso. He's a pervert for sure, like any Greyrat.

Eris' grandfather at least cared for and respected the kemonomimi servants he had, even if he was frequently using them for sex.

Since they were pointing out she'd be his concubine, and this isn't Imperial era China or Japan, it's not likely to be of any political advantage. The fatso wants an attractive sex slave. Nothing more, nothing less. He already has the veneer of legitimacy by getting her grandfather executed.

I was kind of assuming that Eris, Rudy, and Ghislaine were going to take back her estate. But it looks like Eris is running away to go train with her first swordmaster instead.

DarthEnderX

Sun, 12-12-2021, 11:51 PM

Took two lifetimes, but he finally cashed in his V-card!

Boy, some of you guys really hate subtext...

I wonder what Rudy will even do next now. Search for his mother? Search for Sylphie?
Which one first.Well, he's got no clues for either. So any searching is searching for both.

Kraco

Mon, 12-13-2021, 01:01 AM

Since they were pointing out she'd be his concubine, and this isn't Imperial era China or Japan, it's not likely to be of any political advantage.

Yeah, I'd say it could be of political disadvantage for Eris. It would mean more legitimacy for the scumbag because anything that was hers would be then be his. Maybe even more importantly, though, it would remove Eris from most political considerations, used/sponsored by any political adversaries of the scumbag, if not by Eris herself. Since it's a world of sword & sorcery, individuals can be superbly powerful. If Eris manages to get famously powerful, she will be a political force on her own. That would make her also a political joker (card), which could kick the scumbag in the ass later. However, if Eris would now be reduced into a role of concubine (sex slave), all such possibilities would be gone. All she would basically gain would be food and a roof over her head, for a high price.

KrayZ33

Mon, 12-13-2021, 01:54 AM

Minutes of reused footage set over music without dialogue is padding. No room for subjectivity on if it is or isn't. Same with the drawn-out goblet drop. I'm not complaining about the mood setting of them looking over the ruined landscape, because that is cleverly used to pad the episode length while evoking the somber finality of finding out there's no home to return to.

dunno, I skipped through the episode after reading your post and didn't even find all to many scenes you were talking about.
One was during the sex, the other was during his time when he revisited his destroyed home and some more when Ruijerd left(?). Either way, the reused scenes didn't feel like they were dragging it out at all, but rather enhancing the whole situation.
I found it to be sweet.

It's because it is Eris. Eris' mom was hot. It's likely that Eris will also be quite stunning. If properly broken and not the furious warrior we know her to be, she'd be a suitable ornament for the fatso. He's a pervert for sure, like any Greyrat.

Eris' grandfather at least cared for and respected the kemonomimi servants he had, even if he was frequently using them for sex.

Since they were pointing out she'd be his concubine, and this isn't Imperial era China or Japan, it's not likely to be of any political advantage. The fatso wants an attractive sex slave. Nothing more, nothing less. He already has the veneer of legitimacy by getting her grandfather executed.

I was kind of assuming that Eris, Rudy, and Ghislaine were going to take back her estate. But it looks like Eris is running away to go train with her first swordmaster instead.

But that doesn't explain anything and just adds to my problem with it. The old man-servant obviously thinks there is some kind of benefit for her and for her people, in fact, he thinks the people would benefit the most from this and he was willing to "sacrifice/use" Eris for this, as long as Eris decides to do it herself at least.
I'm wondering what this benefit could be? Where is this coming from? That's why I think this should've gotten a proper setup through some "out of Rudy's view" developments.

Anyway, due to skipping through the episode again I realized what Eris is saying in that letter and what she is wanting to do.
The scene where Rudy tried to dispel his own magic gave it a bit away I think. Seems like Rudy is ready to face Orsted again or at least keep on going, while Eris doesn't want it at all. It feels like Eris was trying to bind him down but seeing as that is not what he wants, she decided to do something with Ghislaine so that she remains worthy - probably, seeing how her last encounter ended without her doing anything while Rudy at least managed to score a hit, while having his lungs demolished no less?

edit: man, this episode gave me a bad aftertaste overall.. I really wished for Eris and Rudy to be a thing for much longer.

Kraco

Mon, 12-13-2021, 03:19 AM

It feels like Eris was trying to bind him down but seeing as that is not what he wants, she decided to do something with Ghislaine so that she remains worthy - probably, seeing how her last encounter ended without her doing anything while Rudy at least managed to score a hit, while having his lungs demolished no less?

I don't believe she's worried about binding him down. She just can't live with being weaker than Rudeus. She has always been a fighting oriented person. She was born into nobility, but was looking up to Ghislaine and scoffing at academics. She loves the sword. After the initial shock, she was enthralled by the long adventure, full of danger, through the demon lands and the human continent. She has got real talent, which she knows herself, yet the younger Rudeus still keeps beating her. Rudeus had the unfair advantage of not being affected by Orsted's fear curse, but it's not like Eris would know that. In her eyes Rudeus must have looked like an ultimate badass. This difference in power ought to be what Eris can't live with. She loves Rudeus, but doesn't want to stand next to him while being useless compared to him. A tragically wrong notion, but it's still something gnawing at her. We saw an earlier sign of it back in the demon continent harbour town, where Eris was sure she can defeat Rudeus, but due to his new ocular power, she got beaten.

KrayZ33

Mon, 12-13-2021, 03:37 AM

Ahhh... so maybe Eris wanted some kind of memeto to remind herself of Rudy and the decision was already made? That would work as well.

Oh man, gimme back my Eris!
It must suck so hard for Rudy, considering that he is alone now as a 14 year old boy in the middle of a desolate place.

MFauli

Mon, 12-13-2021, 05:07 AM

It must suck so hard for Rudy, considering that he is alone now as a 14 year old boy in the middle of a desolate place.

Until weeb-Rudy realizes: "OMG, I just had hot sex with a 15 yo, with not responsibilities! Now I can go look for Sylphie, the hot elf girl! I wonder what she looks like! And maybe I'll run into Roxy even!"

KrayZ33

Mon, 12-13-2021, 05:14 AM

Until weeb-Rudy realizes: "OMG, I just had hot sex with a 15 yo, with not responsibilities! Now I can go look for Sylphie, the hot elf girl! I wonder what she looks like! And maybe I'll run into Roxy even!"

Even if weeb-Rudy were like that, he has now tasted the forbidden fruit but lost it. So... even then, it must suck for him.

MFauli

Mon, 12-13-2021, 05:19 AM

Even if weeb-Rudy were like that, he has now tasted the forbidden fruit but lost it. So... even then, it must suck for him.

That's every man ever in the history of men that had a woman but then lost access to her :P

DarthEnderX

Mon, 12-13-2021, 09:00 AM

I'm a little confused as to why Rujierd left in the first place.

His goal is to repair the Superd reputation. Which hanging out with Rudy was accomplishing.

It's not like he has something else to do, so why not stick with them?

Ahhh... so maybe Eris wanted some kind of memeto to remind herself of Rudy and the decision was already made? That would work as well.That was kinda my interpretation of her actions as well.

It's too bad her letter doesn't make that clear, leaving Rudy thinking he did something wrong.

Kraco

Mon, 12-13-2021, 10:44 AM

I'm a little confused as to why Rujierd left in the first place.

His goal is to repair the Superd reputation. Which hanging out with Rudy was accomplishing.

It's not like he has something else to do, so why not stick with them?

I'd assume he will go back to the demon continent. That's his home, ultimately. It would be of scant comfort if the Superd reputation was tolerable in the human lands, but back in the demon lands they were still considered murderous monsters. He also already declared Eris a warrior, so she doesn't need his help anymore. Rudeus was acting as the brains of their group from the beginning (with varying success), so it goes without saying he needs no guardians, despite being the youngest.

KrayZ33

Mon, 12-13-2021, 11:40 AM

In Ruijerd's case, I wouldn't be suprised if he thinks he is causing trouble for these kids.
Rudy, after all, did always go through a lot of steps and kept his reputation in mind.

While they would certainly not view it like that, he himself might... and to be fair, he kinda has a point.
These kids don't "need" him anymore, he doesn't "need" them either nor would he like to cause them trouble even if he did.

On the other hand, he could help Rudy find his mother/friend and do what he does while doing so.
But then again, if Rudy has to do it while also helping the Sperd, he won't focus on what is important to him.

Ryllharu

Mon, 12-13-2021, 11:42 AM

Rujierd had to bring the good news to the rest of his people.

Shave your heads and the curse will dissipate.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 12-13-2021, 11:46 AM

Ruijerd's mission is to escort them home. He's done that. Rudy promised that he'd fix his reputation, and the Man-God has given them an answer to that now, so Rudy's role is done. Like Kraco said, heading back to the Demon Continent would be Ruijerd's next move. He also has other tribesmen to gather and spread news about. Maybe even get them to shave their head. (edit: what Ryll said)

Eris totally decided to leave before fucking Rudy. She didn't decide that afterwards. Like she said, she wanted Rudy to be family so she has someone to go back to after her journey is over. She's going to train while Rudy goes to the Magic Academy since that's the only way he'll advance. Somehow finding Sylphie and Zenith will fit into this picture.

I'm surprised that after all this time, that there are still people in tents. It's been months since the disaster. Those encampments make it seem like it's been 2 weeks. That said, I'm assuming that there's funding for action.

KrayZ33

Mon, 12-13-2021, 02:01 PM

I'm surprised that after all this time, that there are still people in tents. It's been months since the disaster. Those encampments make it seem like it's been 2 weeks. That said, I'm assuming that there's funding for action.

Months?
Hasn't it been years? He was 10 when it all happened and is 14(?) now.
I was confused about that as well. But it seems more like this is a camp to meet up rather than stay. Not sure though.

I have to say however, I have no idea what people did in the past when their homes got raided or villages burned to the ground. Do they go... elsewhere? Do they rebuild?

KrayZ33

Mon, 12-13-2021, 02:02 PM

doublepost

Kraco

Mon, 12-13-2021, 03:52 PM

I'm surprised that after all this time, that there are still people in tents. It's been months since the disaster. Those encampments make it seem like it's been 2 weeks. That said, I'm assuming that there's funding for action.

Several reasons:
1) They are for people who arrived just recently, like Rudeus & Eris.
2) They are for people who are just waiting/looking for family, relatives, and friends there.
3) For depressed, despondent people who learned of the demise of their family and who have got no motivation to leave.
4) The land is totally empty and dead, save for some grass. If they wanted to build anything, they would need to import timber.

It's like one of those refugee camps that exist for years even in our world. Possibly people who rejoined with their family or got back on their feet after learning their family is gone moved elsewhere. It'd be pretty hard to start a new life in that place. Much easier to move to existing villages and towns out there. They would be destitute either way, unless someone, somehow made good money during their long travel back.

DarthEnderX

Tue, 12-14-2021, 01:49 AM

These kids don't "need" him anymore, he doesn't "need" them eitherNot sure how that's the case.

If the previous episode showed us anything, it's that none of them is so strong that they don't need help sometimes.

KrayZ33

Tue, 12-14-2021, 02:01 AM

Not sure how that's the case.

If the previous episode showed us anything, it's that none of them is so strong that they don't need help sometimes.

They are back in their country. That's not the wilderness they've been traveling through earlier.

DarthEnderX

Tue, 12-14-2021, 08:45 AM

They are back in their country. That's not the wilderness they've been traveling through earlier.And do sword gods only wander around the wilderness?

Not to mention, Rudy is not, and never was, planning to stay in his country with family members still missing in the world.

KrayZ33

Tue, 12-14-2021, 09:46 AM

And do sword gods only wander around the wilderness?

Do all sword gods want to kill Rudy and are searching for him?
The one who attacked him didn't even kill him and healed him back up to near perfect condition.
No reason to act as if Rudy is in any more danger than the people Ruijerd will probably rescue to increase his reputation.
Rudy doesn't need a babysitter.

Not to mention that Ruijerd couldn't even do a thing if that were the case.

Kraco

Tue, 12-14-2021, 09:52 AM

And do sword gods only wander around the wilderness?

He wasn't of much help against Orsted. Generally speaking, it would unreasonable to expect him to keep guarding them until adulthood. No, in fact, maybe Eris already is an adult? Regardless, Ruijerd would have assumed Eris will meet her family and Rudeus already has. There's really no sensible place for Ruijerd anymore there, unless they started paying him a salary as a weapons master, or something, kind of like Ghislaine. Or at least there shouldn't have been. They surely didn't expect Eris's whole family to be dead. But now Eris has Ghislaine, so it's cool, either way, from guarding point of view.

DarthEnderX

Tue, 12-14-2021, 09:59 AM

Do all sword gods want to kill Rudy and are searching for him?Maybe! He didn't know about the last one till it was happening!

The point is, the world, ALL the world, is full of unknown dangers. And if you have no place else you NEED to be, why not stick together.

The one who attacked him didn't even kill him and healed him back up to near perfect condition.But wouldn't have if Eris hadn't been there.

Her crying moved the girl, and the girl convinced Orstead.

Not to mention that Ruijerd couldn't even do a thing if that were the case.Is every threat in the world a binary "Weak enough for Rudy to solo" and "too strong for all of Dead End"? Or might there be things in between?

KrayZ33

Tue, 12-14-2021, 11:35 AM

I don't know about all that but "need" is certainly not "it would be cool if he had stayed".
That's my point.

Ruijerd right now would be completely depending on Rudy (UNTIL something happens where he can help which might not even in the next 20 years), not the other way around.
Not something an adult should do to a kid, especially if you consider what Rudy will try to do if Ruijerd is around. He won't look out for his own or himself, he would try to help Ruijerd first and foremost whenever possible and make the rescue of his mother/sylphie a secondary objective (as he cannot do anyhing but "travel")

MFauli

Tue, 12-14-2021, 02:39 PM

You guys ignored my question: Who's stronger, Ruijerd or Ghislaine? Or are you unsure? I found the question interesting.

Ryllharu

Tue, 12-14-2021, 02:42 PM

Ghislaine is a Sword King, but since Ruijerd uses a spear...so we stupidly can't actually compare them until we see them fight each other, or someone that one can beat but the other cannot.

MFauli

Tue, 12-14-2021, 02:52 PM

Ghislaine is a Sword King, but since Ruijerd uses a spear...so we stupidly can't actually compare them until we see them fight each other, or someone that one can beat but the other cannot.

Yeah, I just wondered whether Ghislaine would have more of a chance against Orsted or not (Ghislaine
s first action scene where she attacked an enemy in the town with literal lightning-speed imo was more impressive than anything Ruijerd showed), and whether Eris can learn from her or not. Guess we'll have to find out.

Kraco

Tue, 12-14-2021, 04:55 PM

Ruijerd has a few centuries more experience than Ghislaine, for whatever it's worth. We haven't actually seen how tough Ruijerd is because we have only seen him beat things that aren't so impressive and then lose against someone called a god. Nothing in between. Of course we haven't seen even that much from Ghislaine.

David75

Wed, 12-15-2021, 03:17 AM

My guess is Gold title is superior to King title. So Orsted wins against Ghislaine.
We have no title for Ruijerd, hard to tell. He's probably King level or near.
Against Ghislaine, would his raw strength surpass Ghislaine speed and agility ? Impossible to tell with what we've seen so far.

Buffalobiian

Sun, 12-19-2021, 11:22 AM

Episode 23

------------------

Nicely finished off for now.

-Sylphie at least is safe. Her overall vibe got a lot less approachable though.

-Eris confirming what we knew she was feeling already. Just needs to grow her hair out a little. Also explains why there's such a big box for Rudy. Wonder if he just shoved hair into there or made it slightly more ornamental. Wonder if she's in on the plan to announce her death as well, because if she is then she'd be wandering around with a different name - making her hard to track again. And if she isn't, well then the marriage thing might come to haunt her again. Not that she'd be weak enough to be bullied then anyway.

-Dunno if Rudy has leads, but he's heading somewhere cold anyway. Wonder if he'll run into Zenith first or Sylphie.

-Demon God's just dumb as bricks. She's gonna run out of eyes like this to give people.

-Paul going "Mum's waiting for your older brother to find her" rubbed me the wrong way. Really? Are you even trying anymore?

MFauli

Sun, 12-19-2021, 12:42 PM

Yeah, has Paul completely stopped searching? That was weird.

Sylphie being awesome is ... awesome. I hope she hasn't given up on becoming Rudy's lover, anybody is better than Eris ;o

I liked the depiction of Rudy's depression, at least for me it felt really relatable.

Kraco

Sun, 12-19-2021, 12:49 PM

It's pretty ironic that Eris looks up to Rudeus so much and imagines him so mighty that it never visited her mind that her sudden disappearance might actually leave him really hurt. All that admiration made her pretty blind.

And if she isn't, well then the marriage thing might come to haunt her again. Not that she'd be weak enough to be bullied then anyway.

She abandoned that path already. If people come looking for her because of it, I can foresee those people finding themselves with cracked skulls.

-Paul going "Mum's waiting for your older brother to find her" rubbed me the wrong way. Really? Are you even trying anymore?

He had to tell her something because that's how little kids operate, at least not-Aisha little kids. As it is, he wouldn't even know where the begin to look for Zenith. However, since he knows Norn isn't too fond of Rudeus at the moment, maybe he tried to make Rudeus look better in her eyes by saying that.

Ryllharu

Sun, 12-19-2021, 03:14 PM

I liked the tone of this episode a lot more than the last one. Clarified Eris' feelings, but she's a dumbass through and through, so she actually hurt Rudy more than she ever intended. Ruijerd seeing the work paying off which was some good feels, and the parallel with all the lives that Rudy improves intercut between him feeling sorry for himself, reliving his original trauma, and finally getting over it for real this time was well edited.

I did always wonder what caused him to be bullied, and it explains a whole lot more about Rudy's hangups over all this time. He used to stand up for himself and the little injustices of the world, despite being out of shape and weak compared to his foes. He even endured the beatings, but it was the humiliation that broke him.

That said...I really disliked Slyphie's Gurren Lagaan glasses. They're really out of place in the setting. It's not quite up to the same tier of causing a reaction of immediate loathing like THIS SHIT (https://anidb.net/character/77513) did, but it immediately reminded me of that (Kanemoto Hisako playing Zenith doesn't help).

If the demon queen couldn't see Zenith, how does she really know she's alive?

MFauli

Sun, 12-19-2021, 03:25 PM

I wouldn't say Rudy is over his trauma yet. He remembered that there's someone who needs him and that gave him a new goal. He will only have truly overcome his past when he can function even without a goal.

Btw. the whole setup of how the 3 bullies humiliated him is bs. First of all, why did Rudy even go with them to some empty basketball hall? He could just have said "not coming with you" and if they started dragging him, yelled for teachers' help. I know it's anime clichee, but that doesn't make it any less bs. And then the bullies' extreme actions. Undressing Rudy and tying him to a spot where everybody would see him. What kinda deep end-psychopaths are these 3 guys?! That's comically evil and, again, bs. Bullies don't do this because they know they wouldn't go undamaged after such action. Ofc, we are to believed that in Japanese schools this is totally normal and possible and the victim is powerless. Like, I was bullied for many years, too, and nobody ever helped me. But even then I'm convinced that had they undressed and tied me to a spot like that, somebody would have punished them hard. I don't know. It would have been better if the humiliation was done more sensible, more believably.

If the demon queen couldn't see Zenith, how does she really know she's alive?

The same the telepaths in the scifi novel I'm currently reading cannot read certain beings' minds, but only receive their feelings. Aka something blocks the "signal", but still leaves through enough to let there be a signal.

Kraco

Sun, 12-19-2021, 03:51 PM

Btw. the whole setup of how the 3 bullies humiliated him is bs. First of all, why did Rudy even go with them to some empty basketball hall? He could just have said "not coming with you" and if they started dragging him, yelled for teachers' help. I know it's anime clichee, but that doesn't make it any less bs. And then the bullies' extreme actions. Undressing Rudy and tying him to a spot where everybody would see him. What kinda deep end-psychopaths are these 3 guys?! That's comically evil and, again, bs. Bullies don't do this because they know they wouldn't go undamaged after such action. Ofc, we are to believed that in Japanese schools this is totally normal and possible and the victim is powerless. Like, I was bullied for many years, too, and nobody ever helped me. But even then I'm convinced that had they undressed and tied me to a spot like that, somebody would have punished them hard. I don't know. It would have been better if the humiliation was done more sensible, more believably.

Of course in manga/anime it would be exaggerated. Just like in school gang series the schools are utterly lawless and full of destructive fighting. If you make it look more realistic, it doesn't necessarily feel so bad with a few glimpses, unless you have personally experienced it, which most of us probably haven't. In fact if I hadn't read so much manga, I couldn't even imagine so many varied ways of (realistic) bullying.

We just saw three events, but I'd imagine they were just the beginning, the escalation, and the climax. But maybe that was all, who knows. Then your question would indeed be relevant. If that wasn't all of it, then it would make more sense how he ended up with those bullies in an isolated place and perhaps how it got so bad.

MFauli

Sun, 12-19-2021, 03:55 PM

oh btw wtf. this was the last episode?! is it known when it continues? :/

Buffalobiian

Sun, 12-19-2021, 04:09 PM

It could easily just be "Zenith is alive because my eye can't see dead people".

From the flashback, it actually looked like Rudy was decently tall, though it could just be perspective given the short girl standing in front of him.

Ryllharu

Sun, 12-19-2021, 04:53 PM

What kinda deep end-psychopaths are these 3 guys?! That's comically evil and, again, bs. Bullies don't do this because they know they wouldn't go undamaged after such action. Ofc, we are to believed that in Japanese schools this is totally normal and possible and the victim is powerless. Like, I was bullied for many years, too, and nobody ever helped me. But even then I'm convinced that had they undressed and tied me to a spot like that, somebody would have punished them hard. I don't know. It would have been better if the humiliation was done more sensible, more believably.
Not really exaggerated here, and it is based on historical fact.

He was a 34 year old NEET when the series starts (presume 2012 when the novels started). Work backward and he was in high school in the 1990s.

Bullying in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s made international news, and was the topic of a lot of sociology, education, and criminal justice studies. It was first noticed in the mid-80s, but then suffered from a severe spike right around when he would have been in high school.

At the time, it was a significant social crisis (https://bullybehindyou.blogspot.com/2009/07/japan-era-of-bullying-japan-under.html). It was considered that the suicides were spurred on by "normal" students bullying the victim (as opposed to like...delinquents), so it was pervasive. Ignored or encouraged by the teachers.

Kraco

Sun, 12-19-2021, 05:09 PM

Right. It's hard to keep in mind that not only is the source novel so old, but the MC dude had isolated himself for such a long time before dying. As far as I know, bullying still plays a role in student suicides in Japan, but it was much worse before, probably because there wasn't Internet available to make things public, plus less international attention. The old, hard-line generations have also retired or died. Nowadays Japanese schools can't even demand students with a foreign background to dye their hair, without making headlines.

David75

Mon, 12-20-2021, 03:01 AM

I can understand the basket scene, easy to be traped or forced to go there.
But you need time and strenght to strip an overweight teenager and hang him on that fence where everyone can see the while process... That I feel is unlikely.

Kraco

Mon, 12-20-2021, 04:44 AM

But you need time and strenght to strip an overweight teenager and hang him on that fence where everyone can see the while process... That I feel is unlikely.

Yeah, unless it was the culmination of a long process, with the dude being broken to the point of offering no resistance, which would also explain how he became a recluse. If we only saw a single day, I don't think the psychological effect would be that big, seeing how in the beginning he had the guts to tell the douchebags not to cut in line, so he still had to have self-respect and courage. The fence scene had a monochrome background, I have forgotten if it was shown in more detail earlier in the series, so maybe it happened so late in the evening that the bullies could do it in peace.

MFauli

Mon, 12-20-2021, 05:00 AM

Not really exaggerated here, and it is based on historical fact.

He was a 34 year old NEET when the series starts (presume 2012 when the novels started). Work backward and he was in high school in the 1990s.

Bullying in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s made international news, and was the topic of a lot of sociology, education, and criminal justice studies. It was first noticed in the mid-80s, but then suffered from a severe spike right around when he would have been in high school.

At the time, it was a significant social crisis (https://bullybehindyou.blogspot.com/2009/07/japan-era-of-bullying-japan-under.html). It was considered that the suicides were spurred on by "normal" students bullying the victim (as opposed to like...delinquents), so it was pervasive. Ignored or encouraged by the teachers.

That doesn't mention any extreme bullying like this.

Ryllharu

Mon, 12-20-2021, 07:24 AM

That's because this wasn't extreme for Japan.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 12-20-2021, 07:37 AM

If the demon queen couldn't see Zenith, how does she really know she's alive?If her power doesn't work on the dead, then even knowing her general area at least confirms she's alive.

if they started dragging him, yelled for teachers' help.I've been given the impression through anime that Japanese teachers pretend to not notice bullying.

MFauli

Mon, 12-20-2021, 10:07 AM

That's because this wasn't extreme for Japan.

Ok, Mr Expert

KrayZ33

Mon, 12-20-2021, 10:10 AM

I've been given the impression through anime that Japanese teachers pretend to not notice bullying.

Depending on the type of teacher I could say the same thing about some teachers in Germany...
Hell... some teachers were actually bullied. Some of them just don't have any control over these kids for some reason.
I had a latin teacher that no one would listen to and classes were pure chaos and screaming and she wouldn't do a thing.
Same thing with one of my religion teacher back then. And I went to a "good" school, lol.
I mean, there were days when they would just turn to the blackboard, write something down and talk to themselves (since no one could hear them even if you tried due to all the noise and screaming).

I have no idea how grown men and women can "fear" 12-16yo kids like that... if it's like that in Germany, I can only imagine how it is in a country like Japan where you lose "face" if you don't have things under control and you "struggle" educating your pupils So it's probably better to just pretend everything is fine and to pretend "bullying doesn't happen under my watch".

Ok, Mr Expert

Use google:

‘The certificate: This suicide was caused by ijime’

I certify that I’m going to commit suicide because of ijime, on Saturday 11 November. Please show this letter to the bullies, teachers, the principal, bullies’ parents, and my parents. Also, please show all the letters to the media.

To the Minister of Education and Science Ibuki Bunmei

The reason I write this letter is that I find it too hard to live on. Bullies have never been punished. I told teachers about ijime, but they’ve done nothing. I told my parents about it but I was only told to ‘put up with it’. They contacted the principal and the board of education, but nothing changed. My parents and teachers only say ‘your personality is the problem’, so ‘put up with it’. If the situation does not improve before Wednesday 8 November, I’ll take my own life as I wrote in ‘The certificate: This suicide was caused by ijime’. I’ll do it at school. I can trust no one, so I write to you Minister Ibuki Bunmei…. Please release my name to the media on Saturday 11 November. Please. Please.

To all classmates:

Why do you bully me?... I am going to kill myself because of your bullying…. I saw on the TV that bullies went with teachers, the principal and board of education to destroy evidence, tell lies and say that there was no ijime. No bullies take responsibility. It’s the fault of adults. You may think that you’ll be protected by adults, but you’re wrong. I wrote letters to many people so that you must all kill yourselves to take responsibility….

To the class teacher:

Why don’t you help me? I told you about ijime many times and so did my parents. You told me to ‘hang on’ and ‘it is your fault’… If you don’t caution the bullies by Wednesday 8 November, I’ll commit suicide at school on Saturday 11 November. You’re no different from bullies. I’ll hold a grudge against you forever and will never forgive you. When I die, you’ll tell lies on TV. You’ll definitely say that ‘there was no ijime’ or ‘there is no causal relationship between ijime and suicide’…. I can’t trust you. So I’ve decided to write to the Minister. Other teachers are the same. I can’t trust teachers. They pretend that they haven’t seen ijime. You saw me being bullied, didn’t you? But you did nothing. Why? I don’t understand.

To my parents:

When you read this, I will be gone. I’m sorry. I couldn’t stand it any more. Bullies, teachers, the principal, board of education – they’re all the same. I saw on TV that there were others who want to commit suicide, and I found that I don’t have to put up with this any more. I’m going to die because of the bullies, teachers, the principal, and the board of education…. They’ll all try to avoid responsibility as I saw on TV. I can see that and I hate them.

Japanese culture is absolute trash-tier in that regard. Working there sucks for a fact (at least as a white collar) and so does going to school it seems. Socially speaking, it's basically a third world country. It's probably not by chance that all the weird shit happens over there and not in Australia or Belgium or whatever.
Like.. nearly 1% of adults living as "hikikomori". 1998 the goverment said only 50.000 are affected by this, now in 2019 they admit it's over a million.
This tells you a lot about Japan 20-40 years ago.... and it's not "wow, the japanese people were tougher 20 years ago" btw ;)

Ryllharu

Mon, 12-20-2021, 10:11 AM

Ok, Mr Expert

It's called research, fool.

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ768971.pdf
Ijime (the sadistic, psychological battering that Japan specializes in now), goes back all the way to the 1600s in their own records.

I said before there was loads of research on this topic because they're so severe with it, so insidious with it in the modern era, and it constantly evolves.

Westerners can't comprehend the level this mental fuckery goes to. The basics level is elementary school shit with flowers on the desk, suggesting that the classmate should kill themselves. It goes upward from there, including making victims practice the steps to committing suicide daily.

The violent stuff is literal child's-play.

And I should remind you, mental health programs in Japan are quite poor compared to most G8 nations, because it is shameful and can be seen as losing face, like KrayZ33 mentioned. Getting better, but it certainly isn't good.

Kraco

Mon, 12-20-2021, 12:26 PM

Someone should arrange guns to those bullying victims so that they can do some school shooting like here in the West. It's pretty clear nobody in Japan cares of the victim kills themselves. But if he (I'm not sure if there have ever been female school shooters) takes half a dozen people with him, you can bet folks would start caring.

MFauli

Mon, 12-20-2021, 01:06 PM

Ryllharu

Mon, 12-20-2021, 01:33 PM

Oh, yeah, I guess the unrealistic part is that boys did it to another boy. :rolleyes:

Every other year the story pops up about girl bullies doing it to some other girl. China, Singapore, Japan, Korea. Keep going. I'm not going to post the links even though they're mainstream tabloid papers from the UK and US.

David75

Mon, 12-20-2021, 03:18 PM

Ok, they can do it after everyone left school grounds if there's no security at night. They might not bother waking up early to do it before anyone arrives.
Then there's the fact Rudy had to accept being tied nude to that fence and let them proceed. Maybe under threat.

KrayZ33

Tue, 12-21-2021, 02:30 AM

You don't have to bring up those bullying cases. They're terrible, but what I criticized about your posts was that nothing in there comes close to Rudy's case. The verbal abuse? The permanent ostracizing? Yeah, I know that from my own school past. What I've never heard of is stripping a student naked and pinning him in a spot to humiliate him. That's why I said the anime overdid it there. If something like that happens more than just once irl, then I'll take back my criticism.

That Japan has a problem with bullying is not news. Although while it might be somewhat worse, bullying is a huge problem anywhere in the world, even if the media doesn't make it the big news it deserves.

https://i.imgur.com/TDOZijz.png

again... just google that shit.

I'm not going to do more because google can't differentiate between me helping you using google, and someone looking for childporn.

In any case, this is not even necessarily a case of "bullying" but rather an act of violence, as bullying usually includes a certain timespan and a frequency of these events.
There are stories all over the internet.

I'm not clicking on the links but I guess I could post it here anyway.

This is an article written by a Korean man who served in a prison for teens.

소년원 공익으로 복무했던 썰.ssul

According to the article, some students from high school were accused of having an orgy with 2 mentally handicapped girls. The victims were beaten, burned with hot water and raped daily for a month until the discovery. A teen stole a bus and hit an elderly man in his 70’s, and proceeded to run him over with the heavy vehicle until the man’s dead body was squashed flat. Another high school student attacked the ‘class loser’ with a crow bar and caused permanent damage to his legs, after the ‘loser’ reported his long suffering to the teacher.

MFauli

Tue, 12-21-2021, 08:23 AM

KrayZ33

Tue, 12-21-2021, 09:10 AM

*im not googling because child porn"
*google yourself*

saitamaOK.gif

I never claimed that something like that never happened in the history of mankind. What I doubt is that what happened to Rudy is happening frequently enough to be considered "not a big deal" as it is depicted in the anime. Again, the simple act of how he ended up with the bullies in the basketball court - how? If he went there with them, he's an idiot.

It's anime bs, that's my point.

In case you didn't notice: He has spoken up against them and wanted to stand up for himself and others, as this is how he acts as Rudy as well btw.
What makes you think he didn't try to do the same thing when they told him to meet up in the gym.

Aside from a hundred other possible ways to get him to the gym (simply by threatening him) I don't see what he was supposed to do.
Way to blame the victim here. How would you feel if I said you were an idiot for being bullied "just tell them to not do it, lawl"? I find it very curious that someone who suffered from it himself is saying something like that. You would most likely be suprised how "little" you have actually suffered *compared* to those that get beaten into a *bloody* mess. That get several thousands of $ taken away from them, that get *raped* and sexually harassed. As I mentioned earlier, these cases are more often than not extremely violent. They would most likely not even be considered "bullying" but actually rape and slavery here.

And who said it's not a big deal. We are saying it's happening frequently and has happened frequently and the internet is all over news articles mentioning cases all over the world, yet you deny it or want very specific statistics for some reason - especially if the goverment tried to hide it in the past and these statistics and mentions are obviously mostly written in moon-runes?
We obviously don't have japanese news papers that are written in Kanji. If you can read Kanji you can browse those sites yourself I'd reckon and find these cases quickly? If these cases even make it public in the first place because a big part of the problem in Japan is that it is kinda "endorsed" by those around them and the victim is considered the problem.

If something happens in Germany that is news worthy but not necessarily international news worthy... like.. bullying (go figure), it's written in German as well and you won't necessarily find the same case in an english newspaper.
We don't report on every American School shooting here either.

But anyway:
https://factsanddetails.com/japan/cat23/sub150/item2790.html
I can't vow for anything in that article/research but it's probably more research than what you would want to invest.

MFauli

Tue, 12-21-2021, 09:57 AM

You don't want to understand my point. Indeed, rape is rape, it's not bullying anymore, so not sure why you bring that up.

All I wanted was proof that stuff like what happened to Rudy is an everyday occurrence in Japan, which I still don't believe. That's why I dislike how the anime has portrayed it as "not a big deal".

KrayZ33

Tue, 12-21-2021, 10:44 AM

MFauli

Tue, 12-21-2021, 01:10 PM

I don't understand your point because the point you make doesn't exist.
The anime hasn't portrayed it as "not a big deal".

The situation as perceived by society in this anime is portrayed as "no big deal". Ofc, it's a big deal for Rudy. But:

- teachers wouldn't help him
- classmaters don't care
- parents are "get over it"
- parents talk to school board to do ... what? The situation is as clear as it gets
- why was there no mention of any police involvement?
- it all sounded like the bullies just continue going to school
- the end

That's all "no big deal" level for my impression.

Bullying is a big problem in Japan irl, yes. But maybe popular anime shouldn't portray the reaction to extreme bullying like this, because it reinforces the "not giving a shit" reaction in the people watching this. If this was an anime focusing on bullying as the main theme of the show, then you could this non-reaction as a criticism against the bullying culture in Japan. But it's a fuking isekai anime where we only get a glimpse of Rudy's past every 5-6 episodes or so. Nobody sees these scenes and goes "brrrr bullying bad". It's too little to actually raise awareness.

I'm sorry if my opinion is once again the odd one out, but as someone who went throught not as extreme, but years-long bullying himself, it just makes me angry. I wish there was an anime that really took revenge on such bullies in a non-subtle manner. The "bang!"-scene from Inuyashiki remains the most satisfying scene of such nature.

KrayZ33

Tue, 12-21-2021, 02:28 PM

out of your list there, the only relevant point from all that is: "why wasn't police involved?"

Because all the other points you mentioned either enable bullying in the first place or are your personal thoughts on this even though the show doesn't mention nor show any of that, or aren't even true.
His parents actually did something too.

Good question though, not sure if you involve police here or if you straight up sue the bullies' parents.

The point isn't to raise awareness btw, that's like saying when a character has cancer it is supposed to remind us of how bad cancer is.

MFauli

Tue, 12-21-2021, 04:07 PM

The point isn't to raise awareness btw, that's like saying when a character has cancer it is supposed to remind us of how bad cancer is.

Yes, but then do it better still. The way it's done in Mushoku is like "btw Rudy had cancer LULZ".

You could take my criticism to other anime, too btw, if that's confusing you. I have disliked the whole "delinquents at school bully others without consequences" for some time now. I even dropped a basketball anime that aired, I dunno, 1-3 years ago, because the delinquents gave off such rapey vibes that I couldn't stand any scenes with them and the girls, always made me think "at some point, they're gonna threaten to rape or actually rape one of the girls". And that's just from the shitty "no consequences" presentation - that anime didn't actually have any rape or such (probably).

As you know, I'm absolutely against censorship and I don't think fiction leads to reality. However, when something is THAT normalized in popular fiction, then it might create a bad mindspace in the people watching it. I mean, fuck, anime taught me that civil courage doesn't exist in Japan, so better don't expect nor offer it myself, right? WRONG. Even if it's true, unless your story is about social criticism, why not show it OUGHT to be?!

In Rudy's case, I would have liked to see either a smoother progression of the bullying that shows how it could realistically get to that point OR show that his teachers, classmates, parents and directors actually react properly aka the bullies are thrown out of school, punished by law, the school mates are all "poor Rudy, hope he gets better soon" and the parents are "this is so terrible what happened to our poor son *sobs*" and the director is like "we cannot let something like that happen ever again! This poor boy shows us our own mistakes!". And so on. Of course, not 100% of these people would be that empathic with Rudy. And you could still have Rudy be miserable, because just because people are empathic with you doesn't necessarily heal your wounds. So the "evolution" into the gross Rudy we were introduced to in the beginning could still be happening.

Instead the anime throws this non-sensical hyper-extreme bullying at the audience and expects it to work. That's just too shallow, especially for this anime that prides itself on going into details usually. It went the trope route here, and while most won't complain about this, as evident in this thread, I do, because I demand better.

Ryllharu

Tue, 12-21-2021, 04:41 PM

The situation as perceived by society in this anime is portrayed as "no big deal". Ofc, it's a big deal for Rudy. But:

- teachers wouldn't help him
- classmaters don't care
- parents are "get over it"
- parents talk to school board to do ... what? The situation is as clear as it gets
- why was there no mention of any police involvement?
- it all sounded like the bullies just continue going to school
- the end

That's all "no big deal" level for my impression.
...
I'm sorry if my opinion is once again the odd one out, but as someone who went throught not as extreme, but years-long bullying himself, it just makes me angry.
It should make you angry, but this is Japan. What you laid out is exactly what always happens. The ones where they get revenge, or the bullies get a comeuppance? That's fantasy for Japan.

It's not like you haven't see the pattern before. A Silent Voice has the same pattern. Shouko's mom just actually cares.

South Korea had a similar eye-opening incident with disability students and schools. They made a film about that (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silenced_(film)) too. This stuff does happen, the indifference happens.

They showed Rudy's parents trying extensively right at the beginning, but we can only assume that they were rebuffed by the school staff and administration. Then when he never came out of his room, they slowly stopped trying as well, as did the rest of his family until his parents finally died, when his brother kicked him out.

Kraco

Tue, 12-21-2021, 04:51 PM

You are trying to load a work of fiction with too much social responsibility. This is a product of entertainment industry, that's it. Fantasy web and light novels are written endlessly in Japan, and every author must rack their brain to try to please the audience enough to catch their attention. There's a bunch of simply formulae they often follow, especially and particularly in isekai fantasy. A victim of bullying is a very common trope, sometimes before getting isekaied, sometimes after it, sometimes both. The fact so many authors do rely on such a setting for the MC tells you something about the situation in Japan. There are a whole lot of people who seek the ultimate escapism literature, isekai fantasy, and can sympathise with the victims of bullying and ostracism, either by having personal experience of it or belonging to the silent witnessing group too afraid to do anything about it.

The social pressures show in many ways in isekai fantasy. The slow life isekai is also a very popular setting, targeting a different sort of audience compared to the bullying victim isekai. Slow life can be as deadly boring as the bullying victim one can be grotesque with the ultimate edgelord theme.

MFauli

Tue, 12-21-2021, 06:01 PM

DarthEnderX

Tue, 12-21-2021, 11:45 PM

- parents are "get over it" They expressly weren't that, at least at first.

You get the impression though that he stayed in his room for, like, the next decade. Eventually it's like, yeah, he DOES need to get over it. Ffs.

KrayZ33

Wed, 12-22-2021, 12:51 AM

So, while it should go to the recommendations thread, I'll ask here for greater visibility: Can any of you recommend anime that have bullying as a theme and where the bullies actually lose and the victim gets revenge/wins/gets a happy end? Just curious if that even exists.

"top 100 anime moments where bullies got what they deserved"

The way it's done in Mushoku is like "btw Rudy had cancer LULZ".

It really isn't though, because we got multiple episodes and hundreds of lines that are dedicated to the psychological damage this has caused him even now as Rudeus, he suffers from it, and talking to Man-God always reminds him of his "ugly body" and his past.
While the "revenge" part might be important for you, it really isn't for this show nor for most people in general, not even for the bullied themselves sometimes.
For all we know they could have been punished but that didn't change anything.
For all we know MC didn't help to get them punished and the only things his parents know is that he got bullied etc. etc.
It's up to the imagination, it doesn't mean they make fun of the matter, it just doesn't serve as a story telling device anymore or rather, it serves a different purpose to those anime that use it for a "revenge-story".

MFauli

Wed, 12-22-2021, 06:28 AM

Eventually it's like, yeah, he DOES need to get over it. Ffs.

"Funny" how nobody would ever dare tell that to a female rape victim.

KrayZ33

Wed, 12-22-2021, 07:05 AM

"Funny" how nobody would ever dare tell that to a female rape victim.

They would and they do... don't kid yourself.
After like 10 years people will tell everyone to get up and resume life, even if it was horrible.
Shutting yourself off from reality and in your room is no alternative.

MFauli

Wed, 12-22-2021, 07:06 AM

They would and they do... don't kid yourself.
After like 10 years people will tell everyone to get up and resume life, even if it was horrible.
Shutting yourself off from reality and in your room is no alternative.

They wouldn't tell her that bluntly. Can you imagine the twitter outrage? lol

KrayZ33

Wed, 12-22-2021, 07:20 AM

They wouldn't tell her that bluntly. Can you imagine the twitter outrage? lol

From whom. You don't talk to strangers about such things in the first place, nor is it their place to talk about it.

When we are talking about family members though? If they won't, who will? There is no alternative other than seeking help and to get your life back in order. No matter how difficult, you can't expect *anyone* (not even your family) to carry you through 10 years of depression or whatever just like that. At some point in time, everyone will give up on you.

DarthEnderX

Wed, 12-22-2021, 11:31 AM

What Kray said. Eventually, it stops being supportive and just becomes enabling, doing more harm than good.

Can you imagine the twitter outrage?Cause nobody ever says anything that makes twitter mad

neflight86

Thu, 12-23-2021, 10:26 AM

Good ending. I like that more anime nowadays are abandoning the 'shoehorned anime original ending' and letting the last bit of cannon hang there for an eventual/possible sequel. It keeps this series from feeling compromised.

That demon lord is so flippant (and weak) as to stretch my suspension of disbelief.

Not much more to say- plenty of questions left unanswered. Maybe we'll get more, maybe we won't, but what we got here was worth watching.

Ryllharu

Thu, 12-23-2021, 10:31 AM

That demon lord is so flippant (and weak) as to stretch my suspension of disbelief.

I think the implication is, like some characters from Slime Tensei who have similar claims, she reincarnates and starts out weak before becoming insanely powerful (assuming she doesn't starve to death in that incarnation and die early).

She's physically weak, but her ToonForce powers let her rip out a person's eye and heal them without appearing to do anything. So that breaks the suspension of disbelief all on its own, but she does appear to be quite powerful, and essentially fearless of any physical harm.

MFauli

Thu, 12-23-2021, 10:33 AM

demon lord loli isn't weak. I'm pretty confident that she's just having fun with everything that happens to her. "LULZ, I'm getting tied up, ahahaha!" That kinda type.

KrayZ33

Sat, 12-25-2021, 04:47 PM

Oh, seems like the bluray will have an Eris+Ruijerd episode?

Somewhere around episode 5 (part 2).
Not sure if it fits, but I'm guessing it's the Goblin Slaying part?

DarthEnderX

Tue, 03-15-2022, 10:25 PM

Surprise bonus episode just dropped. I'm guessing it's some DVD extra.

Buffalobiian

Tue, 03-15-2022, 11:06 PM

Gotta love Eris beaming whenever she talks about Rudeus.

Kraco

Wed, 03-16-2022, 12:34 PM

She's pretty much beaming whenever she's doing something she loves, like looking at weapons, fighting, adventuring, or talking about Rudeus. It's jolly good how strongly and consistently her personality has been depicted throughout the series. Back when she was just a waste, she was still the same but not focused on anything constructive, so she behaved like the worst spoiled noble brat. Under Rudeus's tutelage and the realities of the unexpected, long adventure, all of her energy became her genuine strength instead.

A fine extra episode. The excellent fighting scene left nothing to be desired. It was a rather interesting change of perspective to have a n00b follow Eris, to present her as an expert in that sense. She's far too easily provoked, but otherwise she almost behaved like a pro.

Buffalobiian

Wed, 03-16-2022, 07:46 PM

Talking about being "like a pro".. Ruijerd didn't get detected once, even when Eris went into "detection mode".

KrayZ33

Mon, 03-21-2022, 03:53 PM

Reminded me of how much I like this series.

I hope there is going to be another season or two.
After all, they are going to be teenagers/young adults.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 03-21-2022, 04:45 PM

Supposedly, the light novel for this has a conclusive ending, so I'm really hoping we eventually get to see the whole thing.

MFauli

Mon, 03-28-2022, 04:00 PM

Just watched the bonus episode. But can somebody explain to me what happened? Maybe it's too late and I should go to sleep, but I don't understand the ruckus about the boy's identity. So he was the pope afterall? And he put on the helmet so his followers wouldn't see him? But why did the pope want to go adventuring with randos in the beginning? And willing to watch as 2 women are slaughtered?

Weird.

animation was nice, ofc, but I would have liked a scene where Rudeus shows his magic prowess in front of the boy lol

Ryllharu

Mon, 03-28-2022, 06:07 PM

My understanding from the intro is that he was adopted into the papacy and determined to be a magical prodigy (more in line with Roxy than Rudeus, but also without Roxy's decades of adventuring experience). So he's an adopted noble, and also directly in line to be the next pope or something. He's just an arrogant little shit as one would expect a magical prodigy to be. Rudy was exactly the same way before he got some similar doses of brutal reality.

The little girl and her knight are heirs to the rival faction also aiming to become the next pope. He was willing to watch because all the masked figures are on his side and from his family's forces. He couldn't be recognized by either side and he was actually in as much danger as the little girl was.

The issue is that his faction welcomes demonkin and non-humans, and the little girl and her knight they rescued are with a human supremacist faction.

So Eris actually did a bad thing.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 03-28-2022, 08:35 PM

But why did the pope want to go adventuring with randos in the beginning?Cause he's a kid. And kids crave adventure.

Kraco

Mon, 03-28-2022, 11:11 PM

The issue is that his faction welcomes demonkin and non-humans, and the little girl and her knight they rescued are with a human supremacist faction.

So Eris actually did a bad thing.

The knight aside, it's hard to think the little girl would be guilty of anything yet. I suppose ten years later she might be a ruthless human supremacist already, but on the other hand, maybe this experience will change something for her. Even if she becomes a human supremacist initially, but later finds out that her savior actually loves the animal ears people, it could still not be too late for her. She might, at least, become a moderate in her faction.

All that being said, even if the current ruling faction supposedly welcomes demonkin and non-humans, it doesn't yet mean that much without knowing the full picture. In practice discrimination seemed to be allowed already. Perhaps they thought the non-humans are needed as slaves or for low-paying jobs.

MFauli

Tue, 03-29-2022, 03:42 AM

KrayZ33

Mon, 07-04-2022, 04:25 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlDF3cfb8lA

preview trailer, obviously spoiler-ish. 2023 is where it's at!

Kraco

Mon, 07-04-2022, 09:44 PM

Yeah, spoilerish is certainly the correct word to describe that.

Ryllharu

Sun, 07-02-2023, 01:25 PM

S2 eps 00

-------------

Noticeable animation downgrade.

I still don't really get how Sylphiette survived by killing the monster boar.

But what I do think is that Ariel immediately chose to gaslight Sylphiette in order to secure a new bodyguard. The glasses are super fucking lame, I'm not sure I'm ever going to get over those.

MFauli

Sun, 07-02-2023, 03:05 PM

Ryllharu

Sun, 07-02-2023, 03:36 PM

- why did her hair color change?
- how did she survive that fall?
- if all people got teleported into the sky, how did everyone else survive?
- why is she a capable fighter, strong enough to defeat a famous assassin?
- why is her chest so dishearteningly flat?

1. Mystery, I got the same questions, since I assumed her hair changed later, not as she was falling through the sky.
2. Right there with you. I guess she used wind magic and not water magic (why was she using it first anyway then...) and literally bounced off the boar's head.
3. I think they explained this in the previous season. It basically just ignored elevation and randomized. Depending on where you were sent, you were either right at ground level like Rudeus and Eris, or way up in the sky like Sylvie. Demon Continent is higher than the rest of the world if I remember right, so they always had a better chance of not being up in the sky.
4. Also explained briefly in the previous season. Sylphiette continued to hang out with Paul and the rest of Rudeus' family and practiced magic so she wouldn't fall behind Rudeus when they eventually would reunite when he was done tutoring Eris and Ghislaine. She just got generically good at a lot of things.
5. Elves be flat in this anime setting. See slut-elf for cross-reference.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 07-03-2023, 02:20 AM

1. Mystery, I got the same questions, since I assumed her hair changed later, not as she was falling through the sky.
2. Right there with you. I guess she used wind magic and not water magic (why was she using it first anyway then...) and literally bounced off the boar's head.They literally showed her hair change color AS she was falling. Right after she tried to use water magic and choked on it.

It seems like, she tried to use water magic, it didn't work, and in that moment her hair color changed and she was suddenly using air magic. Maybe elven hair color is tied to their element?

No idea why it spontaneously changed though. Desperation maybe? Or maybe...all that wind from falling? *shrug*

David75

Mon, 07-03-2023, 04:21 AM

I don't remember if the events of that ep were in the manga, I think they were not.
Hence the ep 0.
To me the hair going white is linked to the folklore idea that very stressful events, like being sure you are about to die, can produce such result. I think there's a novel by Edgar Allan Poe with the same thing happening to a maelstrom survivor.

Fitz glasses, they feel very out of place in a empire/royalty setting similar to the 18th or 19th century.
But I guess the author used a 1980s or 1990s era artifact for highly distinctive purposes.

Other than that, I expected no less boredom from that ep

Kraco

Mon, 07-03-2023, 10:55 AM

I don't see why they couldn't have glasses like that, as lame as they are. Maybe they are cut from the outer layer of some giant arthropod eye or maybe magic can turn metal transparent. Made of glass, they would be quite terribly heavy, so I doubt that's the case, which is also why Earth didn't have such before the very modern era (advanced polymer engineering). As long as they can be made, they will be made. Just like in our world, as soon as technology allows making something, eventually it will be made. From a practical point of view, the larger area (tinted) glasses cover of the face, the harder it's to recognise and read a person, which ought to be the reason for the glasses here.

Btw, Ruijerd said Eris and Rudeus also dropped from the sky. Regardless, great many people obviously didn't survive. Dropping from low or very low altitude would allow surviving, even if wounded, especially if one happened to appear right above a body of water. The only other choice would be pretty much magic. I guess someone who mastered martial arts (the kind of magical one Ghislane practices) would also survive free fall from a lot higher than a layman.

I don't mind the hair colour change. I always thought it was somekind of magic overload thing, Sylphy suddenly needing to go over her previous limits to stop her descent.

Buffalobiian

Fri, 07-07-2023, 02:31 AM

To me the hair going white is linked to the folklore idea that very stressful events, like being sure you are about to die, can produce such result.

Yes. This. Hair change to white due to stressful events has been a thing in Asian "folklore" for a long time. Think of it as like "You get a cold if you get caught in the rain" thing.

The glasses design is out of place. I'd say that there are better head coverings suited for the era, but from memory the underwear in this series is also surprisingly modern, so whatever.

MFauli

Fri, 07-07-2023, 05:15 AM

Yes. This. Hair change to white due to stressful events has been a thing in Asian "folklore" for a long time. Think of it as like "You get a cold if you get caught in the rain" thing.

If that's what it's supposed to be, it's the worst instance of doing so EVER.

MFauli

Sun, 07-09-2023, 12:52 PM

Season 2 Episode 1:

Quality episode, although we're off to another slow start. Is this really only 12 episodes or another 2 cour?

Fully expected the new party to insantly die. A bit disappointed that Rudy didn't show off his amazing close-rang fighting abilities thanks to his demon eye :D

Ryllharu

Sun, 07-09-2023, 02:26 PM

Split-cour. The other half is in Spring 2024.

I thought this was a really well-done episode as well. It did a good job of portraying Rudy's small-minded state of depression and how the other group was able to give him a swift kick in the arse to get out of it.

There were a lot of great visual elements to show his state of funk/regression and recovery.

I am surprised he didn't burn the panties too.

David75

Sun, 07-09-2023, 03:07 PM

He didn't burn the panties because:
-his love for his loli sensei is pure in his twisted ways
-panties are a treasure for an otaku hikkikomori. Even more if they are from a virgin loli.
-his love for his sensei is not over and he still gets positive emotions from it.

Kraco

Sun, 07-09-2023, 04:22 PM

This was an important episode (arc?) because it's about regression for Rudeus. He spent his previous life in deep depression, so it's easier to fall into it again in this second life. Of course burning Eris's hair, the memento of a lost love, was important because it's about not letting the past drag him down. Not letting his past life prevent him for enjoying this second chance was his most important decision back when he had just been reborn, so this was like a verification of it. Eris left him, but he still has other things to live for. It's pretty funny Roxy's stolen panties are an extremely important item for his mental health, but why not; he's a Greyrat, after all, and thus genetically a pervert.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 07-10-2023, 12:05 AM

This new party is fated to be dogchow.

I'm glad this depression only lasted an episode. I was already annoyed.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 07-10-2023, 12:35 PM

This new party is fated to be dogchow.

I'm glad this depression only lasted an episode. I was already annoyed.

I was getting pissed off too, mainly because the motivations didn't make a whole lot of sense.

Eris said she'd come back when she's more "worthy" of him.

He knows he still has his teacher and his family. He was finding his mother. There's still plenty of motivation there to the point where thinking he'd just fall back into a rut seems... strange.

The burnt hand scene seemed strange. Not in regards to the handshake, but more the fact that it was burnt. I've never seen a fireball hurt someone's own hand before, and if you burnt your hand from skinning animals they're too hot.

Kraco

Mon, 07-10-2023, 01:47 PM

Eris said she'd come back when she's more "worthy" of him.

Is that what the anime version said? The manga translation I read said:

"Right now, we're not a good match for each other.

I'm leaving on a journey, Eris."

I guess for a more positive person, it might sound like she's coming back, but deep down Rudeus is not an optimistic person. He only read it as "We aren't a good match. Farewell." It's not unreasonable either. They went through the dangerous, long journey back, but then she just disappeared leaving behind nothing but a letter that didn't really say anything. Anyone would take it as a negative sign.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 07-10-2023, 02:04 PM

It also kinda makes it seem like she one-night-standed him. So I could see him being like "Shit, I must suck in bed..."

Ryllharu

Mon, 07-10-2023, 03:16 PM

Eris said she'd come back when she's more "worthy" of him.

Is that what the anime version said? The manga translation I read said:

"Right now, we're not a good match for each other.

I'm leaving on a journey, Eris."

The former is what Eris undoubtedly meant, but she is notoriously shitty at communication. In general, she's a dumbass who is good at fighting.

Episode 22, she wrote what Kraco posted.

Halfway into Eps 23, she shouted from the mountaintop that she loved him and stated that her goal was to better herself and protect him.

So you are both correct.

She looks like to a Japanese person that she cut her hair and broke up with him because they weren't meant to be together. Who knows what cutting one's hair means in Pervo-World.

Kraco

Mon, 07-10-2023, 03:49 PM

In this context it doesn't really matter what she meant. How Rudeus interpreted it is all that matters. After all, she hit the road before he woke up, so he couldn't ask any questions to understand what's going on.

MFauli

Sun, 07-16-2023, 11:13 AM

Season 2 Episode 2:

It was another nice, enjoyable episode, but without any twist at the end of the episode, pacing feels very slow now and I'm reminded of last seasons' Vinland Saga S2. Just nothing happened that's important. And I'm mad that Rudeus spent MONTHS there just waiting to be contacted, like, bitch, GO SEARCH FOR YOUR MOM!

The repeated focus on Roxy's panties really feels out of place at this point in time. He should just fuck Sara to get it out of his system, girl wants his d.

Anyway, only two ways I see this end:
- either "Counter Arrow" is killed next week, giving impetus to Rudeus moving forward (maybe Sara survives?)
- or the get into a big fight with some uber-boss monsters and Rudeus finally reveals to the group just how far above his power level is compared to theirs and that causes him to move on, basically being like "we're on very different points in our journey, I must now proceed my own journey, bye".

Finally, I'd have preferred a slightly longer timeskip so Rudeus at least looked like a young man. He's still looking like a little boy, only with sixpack now lol

Kraco

Sun, 07-16-2023, 11:46 AM

There's only so much he can do, in the vast world, to search for a single person, who's quite capable of taking care of herself normally. If Zenith could do it, she would have definitely contacted people, through the guild or otherwise. Since she hasn't, she ought to be quite solidly limited in her actions and out of sight. Rudeus doesn't have any particular contacts of his own, either, being just a teenager. So, he's trying to become somebody. However, he had regressed quite deep in his previous life depression, so I reckon he doesn't have the mental energy to try anything overly innovative. It's not a bad depiction of depression, even if what the rude dude said is true: It's quite annoying how Rudeus is behaving as if he was the most unfortunate person in the world. Eris is much more unfortunate, yet Rudeus is only feeling sorry for himself. But that's what depression can do to a human.

The main manga is adapting the novels in a different manner compared to the anime, so I don't actually know how long this depression arc is supposed to be. I hope not too long. I don't mind this, but, like I said earlier, it's not so fun to watch depression after all the adventure of the first season.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 07-17-2023, 02:47 AM

Kraco

Mon, 07-17-2023, 03:43 AM

Even so, you would think you would increase your odds of finding someone by...not checking just one place.

He's not currently checking places, per se. He's making himself relatively famous and letting people know he's looking for her. That way, when those people, adventurers or even merchants dealing with adventurers, wander around, they will pay attention to any news/rumours and will send information back. It's like, in our world, if your dog goes missing, you don't only randomly wander the streets looking for it, but you post social media messages about it (if you use social media), to have many more pairs of eyes potentially look for it.

Rudeus himself was teleported to another continent. Where would he even begin to search if he only intended to do it personally? He made the choice to head north since Paul is down south and others actually travelled to the demon continent (with Rudeus barely missing them). But even so, if you lived in the middle of the USA and someone was sent to a random location in Alaska or Canada, and you heard no news of them contacting anyone, it would be quite a huge area to look for the person only relying on yourself.

MFauli

Mon, 07-17-2023, 04:01 AM

He's not currently checking places, per se. He's making himself relatively famous and letting people know he's looking for her. That way, when those people, adventurers or even merchants dealing with adventurers, wander around, they will pay attention to any news/rumours and will send information back. It's like, in our world, if your dog goes missing, you don't only randomly wander the streets looking for it, but you post social media messages about it (if you use social media), to have many more pairs of eyes potentially look for it.

Rudeus himself was teleported to another continent. Where would he even begin to search if he only intended to do it personally? He made the choice to head north since Paul is down south and others actually travelled to the demon continent (with Rudeus barely missing them). But even so, if you lived in the middle of the USA and someone was sent to a random location in Alaska or Canada, and you heard no news of them contacting anyone, it would be quite a huge area to look for the person only relying on yourself.

Kraco.

You're searching your lost mom.

You know she's somewhere in Italy.

You travel to Lago Magiore.

You stop there.

You become someone that people at the lakeside you're staying it appreciate for your ever-helpfulness, be it repairing stuff, fishing fish or just being a cheerful guy.

WILL THIS HELP YOU FIND YOUR MOM?!

:|

Kraco

Mon, 07-17-2023, 04:14 AM

Kraco.

You're searching your lost mom.

You know she's somewhere in Italy.

You travel to Lago Magiore.

You stop there.

You become someone that people at the lakeside you're staying it appreciate for your ever-helpfulness, be it repairing stuff, fishing fish or just being a cheerful guy.

WILL THIS HELP YOU FIND YOUR MOM?!

:|

He should be planning to switch towns eventually, to make himself known here and there. What else is he supposed to do? There's only so much he can cover by walking around and checking places personally. He could walk past his mom from a 2 meters distance and not notice her if there was a wall between them. Happened to him and Roxy, in the port town, because neither looked the right way. If he was rich, he could actually post guild quests with a reward, to have adventurers actively look for Zenith, perhaps on the side of their usual quests. But he's not wealthy to that extend. However, if Rudeus becomes a decently famous adventurer (in a good sense, not infamous), any random person who happened to find Zenith might imagine getting a reward from him. Just like if some famous person in your town lost a precious item and you found it, you might imagine that surely the person will give you a couple of hundreds of euros, at least, if you take the item to them. I can't use a person in this comparison because our societies have the police search for missing people.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 07-17-2023, 06:56 AM

I have mixed feelings about this episode and am actually surprised you guys enjoy it so much.

I could accept him moping around for episode 1. The resolution felt a bit too quick at the end there, but it resolved nonetheless. This episode showed him initially in an improved state, but then he went back to being all depressed and shit. That felt off, and it seemed like Episode 1 was wasted. We could have started Season 2 with this exact episode and preface it with "It's been a few months since Eris left me, and I've started making a name for myself in this town. In particular I partner with this other team a lot".

The body building and panties shrine was funny, and the fanservice was on point.

I thoroughly enjoyed that Rudeous was capable of deleting a blizzard and murdering snow bisons. It looked like he struggled against the frost lizards at the beginning (which was strange) but I guess he was just sad when he thought he got left behind and he went into his shithole state of mind again.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 07-17-2023, 11:31 AM

Also, his nickname sucks. Quagmire is a lame name even without the Family Guy reference.

Like, they all watched him incinerate that army of bears. But instead his nickname is based on the spell he used to hold them in place.

But even so, if you lived in the middle of the USA and someone was sent to a random location in Alaska or Canada, and you heard no news of them contacting anyone, it would be quite a huge area to look for the person only relying on yourself.Even if running into her is basically like winning the lottery, you still have a greater chance of winning the lottery with 10 tickets than you do with 1.

Just move from city to city.

MFauli

Mon, 07-17-2023, 12:07 PM

He should be planning to switch towns eventually, to make himself known here and there. What else is he supposed to do? There's only so much he can cover by walking around and checking places personally. He could walk past his mom from a 2 meters distance and not notice her if there was a wall between them. Happened to him and Roxy, in the port town, because neither looked the right way. If he was rich, he could actually post guild quests with a reward, to have adventurers actively look for Zenith, perhaps on the side of their usual quests. But he's not wealthy to that extend. However, if Rudeus becomes a decently famous adventurer (in a good sense, not infamous), any random person who happened to find Zenith might imagine getting a reward from him. Just like if some famous person in your town lost a precious item and you found it, you might imagine that surely the person will give you a couple of hundreds of euros, at least, if you take the item to them. I can't use a person in this comparison because our societies have the police search for missing people.

Here's what I'd do if I were Rudeus:

- Go from town to town
- Cast gigantic, spectacular spell into the air at the center of each town
- Announce to the people surrounding you "I am Rudeus Geyrat, I'm looking for my mom, have you heard of her? If you do, pls inform the guild, I will make sure to reward you plenty"
- rinse and repeat

Rudeus is a mage with world-tier spells, only second to the gods who are responsible for the teleport spell. He has that kind of power where he can make himself known quickly and effectively.

And really, even if he wanted to do it in a less conspicuous way, 1 month ought to be enough for one town. Not spending half a year. That's, like, giving up on the one you claim to search.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 07-17-2023, 12:15 PM

Rudeus isn't that strong. There are plenty more fearsome people around. That said, using Saint level magic and doing as you said would work better than this slog he is doing, but he was never smart nor creative, and now he is even depressed, so I chalk this up to him being dumb and lazy.

David75

Mon, 07-17-2023, 12:53 PM

Also, his nickname sucks. Quagmire is a lame name even without the Family Guy reference.

Like, they all watched him incinerate that army of bears. But instead his nickname is based on the spell he used to hold them in place.

Quagmire also fits his state of mind, very appropriate.
Depression is not rational to people around.
And levels may vary.
But I understand that grand adventure anime isn't were you want to get many eps with a depressed MC.
I'd say I have mixed feelings too, at least starting a season on his low. But I totaly understand a story where a MC gets depressed for some time.

DarthEnderX

Mon, 07-17-2023, 03:45 PM

But I understand that grand adventure anime isn't were you want to get many eps with a depressed MC.I got my fill of that shit from Re: Zero!

Ryllharu

Sun, 07-23-2023, 12:54 PM

S2 Eps 3

----

This entire arc has been bad. The only good part of this entire episode was the final minute of the episode, post-credits with the return of the slut-elf.

Buffalobiian

Sun, 07-23-2023, 01:29 PM

Fucking hell.

His leading on Sara.. fine, that's kinda who he is.
Getting ED.. fine.
Trying to cure it, makes sense.
But what irked me was how he bitched about Sara vs Elise. He didn't even feel that way. He said her body was nice. The way I read into it was that it was an artificial way to have him piss her off from a plot point of view, and now he's mopey and doing other shit again. I hate this "one step forward, one step back" thing we've been doing, and even more so when I feel that it doesn't seem to make sense.

lol at slut-elf losing a lead because she used her horniness.

Under normal circumstances, I would have quite liked Sara. Her design is also quite cute. Currently she's just Eris-lite, making her an extra/spare. That means developing her relationship with Rudy is a waste of time (and my time) which irks me. But is also saddens me that she'll also become sad since she's destined to fail unlike the main "harem".

Eris-lite isn't inherently a bad thing. For a real relationship it's nice to have someone who is less extreme, even though unlocking Dere in anime is "worth it".

Sol suddenly becoming Rudy's big brother also felt weird. It's not unfathomable that he's not entirely the abrasive guy he portrays himself to be, but they never showed why he acts the way he does in public, and why he's okay with Rudy now. He was arrogant in general, telling people to not intrude on his quest, telling everyone he's the best team in town, and telling others how much he thinks poorly of them (like towards Arrow's team leader). Just going "right, I shouldn't be so mean" all of a sudden feels forced and random.

Kraco

Sun, 07-23-2023, 01:46 PM

The whole purpose of this arc was to depict Rudeus's depression after he got left behind by Eris, so aside from his growth as a combat mage, which has been happening, he obviously couldn't have really good time. Considering what kind of story this is, it's not so surprising ED would be introduced as a part of Rudeus's problems. To show that, you pretty much needed Sara or something equivalent. I'd say Rudeus badmouthing her wasn't so peculiar either. That's his personality, in the end. It didn't help Sara, after their cancelled night together, told him that she never really cared about him that much and the whole thing was just to pay him back for all the help. That, if anything, should have reminded Rudeus of how Eris broke up with him. So, while still somewhat affected by all the booze, Rudeus let that grudge out of his system.

I could have lived without this arc, for sure. The new characters don't really matter. All of this could have been covered in a single ep, if done wisely, through dialogue and strongly displaying Rudeus's depression visually. I trust showing Elinalise is a sign of the end, especially since we got "future" talk about Rudeus's achievements.

MFauli

Sun, 07-23-2023, 01:56 PM

Why is it that right after Vinland Saga pulled the slowest season ever, Mushoku follows that style?

You know, I have enjoyed all episodes of this new season so far, I really did. But I still hate this slow pacing considering we're not getting 52 episodes without break, nah, it's just 12 episodes, then a break, then 12 more episodes. And then probably at least a year before season 3 airs. Ugh.

As for slut elf, I hope Rudy gets to bang her. Let him bang a hot, curvy woman for once.

Buffalobiian

Sun, 07-23-2023, 02:09 PM

I thought Elinalise was kind of flat. Not flat flat, but not curvy.

David75

Sun, 07-23-2023, 02:10 PM

Rudeus can't lift. Sara takes offense and clearly tries to hurt Rudeus in a way she know will work. They've been together for a long while now. No way it wasn't on purpose.
Then she gets upset at drunken Rudeus when he doesn't even know she's there ? Okay, Rudeus shouldn't have said that, but he didn't have the intentions Sara had with her words...

Rudeus not being able to lift tells us how strong his depression and PTSD is. You need something powerful to completely erase the libido in an otherwise healthy teenager. No one watching this should underestimate the quagmire he mentally is in.

I'm in the camp of those who liked the ep, I liked Elise and what she brought.
Sol was maybe a little too different, but I guess he has his reasons to try to help Rudeus. A practical one would be to get a reliable powerful mage, better knowing Rudeus probably helps. And maybe Sol has his reasons to be first so harsh towards Rudeus and then help him when he understands his circumstances.

We were once again shown that Rudeus isn't very strong. I start to doubt it's only because he is still a young teenager. Multiple punches should still hurt. But I have to remember we have demi-humans and people jumping around and fighting mid-air. Even Eris did that.
So muscle power and resisting multiple punches might be different in that world.

DarthEnderX

Sun, 07-23-2023, 10:44 PM

Rudeus can't lift. Sara takes offense and clearly tries to hurt Rudeus in a way she know will work. They've been together for a long while now. No way it wasn't on purpose.
Then she gets upset at drunken Rudeus when he doesn't even know she's there ? Okay, Rudeus shouldn't have said that, but he didn't have the intentions Sara had with her words...Yeah, but see it from her POV. She doesn't know about his issues, so when he couldn't get it up, she probably assumed he wasn't attracted to her.

Then she overhears him saying he doesn't like flat girls like her, that would pretty much confirm it.

Sol was maybe a little too different, but I guess he has his reasons to try to help Rudeus. A practical one would be to get a reliable powerful mage, better knowing Rudeus probably helps. And maybe Sol has his reasons to be first so harsh towards Rudeus and then help him when he understands his circumstances.I mean, he made it pretty clear that he didn't like Rudeus' personality. Now he knows that's not his real personality.

Ryllharu

Sun, 07-30-2023, 12:24 PM

S2 Eps 4

"Letter of Invitation" - OR - "A Preponderance of Slutty Elf Moans"

---------

Honestly, really anti-climactic reveal that Zenith is totally fine doing dungeon crawling about a year away on travel and that the other half of Roxy's party will keep her safe until Rudeus' jaunt in High School Drama is over. Especially after the way he's reunited with the rest of his family thus far.

But hey, his plan worked. The Slut Elf found him just fine and gave him a much-needed update on where all the people he cares for happen to be.

I suppose Hitogami's advice was to ensure that he wouldn't miss out on a potential reunion with his childhood love (also the implication of how he will get over his ED). Even with divine advice against doing the "right" thing to reunite the family, it's feels like hamfisted writing and not what the character would actually do. Rudeus barley trusts Hitogami as it stands.

It's also a little hard for me to buy that Rudeus "plateaued" in magic when he can solo a dragon thanks to the years of experience he earned in an environment much harsher than any adventurers he's been with since have or will ever experience. There might be plenty of good swordsmen on the western continents, but not the type who can routinely take down powerful, physically large, and fast monsters like he and Eris learned how. He's still stronger than the average mage will ever be as well, since he knows Saint-Class water magic.

The detail I did like is how scummy the school invitation is. They're basically just calling on famous people to come there so they can later claim to nobles with more money than sense that "Rudeus Grayrat - Saint Class Water mage studied at our fine institution, imagine all the things we taught him that we can also teach your precious child."