How do past years hold up - List your true highlights

[MFauli]

I've been meaning to start this thread, but the heat wave kept me tired, so I'll just throw this out there now.

The idea of this thread is to look at past years of anime and pick those anime that even now you consider worth watching.

This is different from the Top3 thread, where you simply post the 3 best anime of a season - you can have such top3, but they could stil all be forgettable in the long run. Get it?

I've been rather defensive for anime in the past couple years, telling haters that anime is as good as ever. But for some time now I feel that isn't true anymore. Do I'm gonna check it out.

I'll start with 2018 and then work my way down to, dunno, maybe 2008. Maybe further. Listing only those anime that give me the urge to recommend, rewatch and buy them (if i had money). I wanna see which anime truly stand the test of time. Would be great if you all participate :]

[Ryllharu]

Go to 1995. See what really holds up. I'm not joking.

[MFauli]

Ok, I'm down to 2015. Will be difficult to go much further because I didn't use MAL after a certain point. Anyway.

My personal ruleset (that I will bend if I choose so) is that I will count long-running series to their first airing date. So i.e. I don't count Shingeki no Kyojin for this year. Also, sometimes a series went to shit, but was great in the beginning, so only S1 makes the list. Lastly, I first picked all the anime from each year that were talked about a lot and that I liked, too. Then, however, I asked myself the important question: "Which of these anime would you mention in line with Death Note, Record of Lodoss War and Cowjoy Bebop?" That was exciting, because asking that question quickly made me realize the shortcomings of most series. However, a few remained that I could confidently say 'yeah, that's right' (Standouts).

So here's my list up until 2015. I'll continue doing these lists for as long as I have MAL data. Remember that this is my list. You are VRRY welcome to post your own :]

2022:
Ousama Ranking
Shuumatsu no Harem
Kimetsu no Yaiba S3

Standouts:

Ousama Ranking

2021:

Beastars S2
Yakusoku no Neverland S2
Kumo desuga, Nanika
Mushoku Tensei
Redo of Healer
Mashiro no Oto
Nomad: Megalo Box S2
Tokyo Revengers
Fumetsu no Anata e
Cestus

Standouts:

Fumetsu no Anata



2020:

Honzuki S2
Kaguya-sama S2
Deca Dence
Re:Zero S2
Shingeki no Kyojin Final Season Part 1

Standouts:

Deca Dence


2019:

Egao no Daika
Mob Psycho S2
Yakusoku no Neverland
Kakegurui S2
Tate no Yuusha
Kaguya-sama
Domestic-na Kanojo
Kimetsu no Yaiba
Isekai Quartet
One-Punch Man S2
Araburu Kisetsu no Otome-domo yo
Karakai Jouzu na Takagi-san S2
Vinland Saga
Honzuki
Beastars

Standouts:

Kaguya-sama
Kimetsu no Yaiba
Beastars


2018:

Sorayorimo
Gakuen Babysitters
Kokkoku
Darling in the Franxx
Megalo Box
Golden Kamui
Steins;Gate 0
Shingeki no Kyojin S3
Kaze ga tsuyoku fuiteiru
Tensei shitara Slime datta Ken

Standouts:

Steins;Gate 0


2017:

Youjo Senki: Tanya the Evil
Little Witch Academia
KonoSuba S2
Shingeki no Kyojin S2
Seikaisuru Kado
Berserk S2
Re:Creators
Kakegurui
Made in Abyss
Ballroom e Youkoso
Houseki no Kuni
Blend S
Inuyashiki

Standouts:

Little Witch Academia
Houseki no Kuni


2016:

Boku dake ga inai machi
GATE S2
Hai to Gensou no Grimgar
KonoSuba S1
Ajin
Jojo part 4
Boku no Hero Academia S1
Re:Zero
Berserk S1
ReLIFE S1
MSG: Iron-blooded orphans S2
Yuuri on Ice
Ajin S2
Udon no Kuni

Standouts:

Ajin
Re:Zero
Yuuri on Ice


2015:

Jojo part 3 S2
Aldnoah Zero S2
Kuroko no Basuke S3
Baby Steps S2
Diamond no Ace S2
Sidonia no Kishi S2
GATE S1
Shimoneta
Dragon Ball Super
Overlord S1
One Punch Man

Standouts:

Dragon Ball Super
One Punch Man

2014:

Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! Ren
Jojo: Stardust Crusaders
Haikyuu
Baby Steps
No Game No Life
Ping Pong The Animation
SAO S2
Aldnoah;Zero
Terra Formars
Log Horizon S2
Yowamushi Pedal
Parasyte
Shigatsu wa Kimo no Uso
Sidonia no Kishi

Standouts:

Baby Steps
Ping Pong The Animation
Sidonia no Kishi

2013:

Chihayafuru S2
Hataraku Maou-sama
Oreimo
Shingeki no Kyojin
Log Horizon
Kuroko S2
Diamond no Ace
Yowamushi Pedal

Standouts:

Oreimo
Shingeki no Kyojin


2012:

Shinsekai Yori
Uchuu Kyoudai
Recorder to Randoseru Do
Ginga e Kickoff
Kimi to Boku S2
Sankarea
Accel World
Kuroko S1
Eureka Seven Astral Ocean
Sakamichi no Apollon
Sword Art Online

Standouts:

Shinsekai Yori
Sword Art Online
Accel World
Sakamichi no Apollon
Uchuu Kyoudai


2011:

Infinite Stratos
Hanasaku Iroha
Steins;Gate
Hunter X Hunter 2011
Chihayafuru
Bakuman
Kimi to Boku
Usagi Drop
Baka to Test to shoukanjuu S2
AnoHana

Standouts:

Hanasaku Iroha
Steins;Gate
HXH
AnoHana


2010:

Rainbow: Nisha Rokubou no Shichinin
Baka to Test to Shoukanjuu
Giant Killing
Highschool of the Dead
Major S6

Standouts:

Rainbow

2009:

Tokyo Magnitude 8.0
Suzumiya Haruhi Season 2
Cross Game
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood
Kemono no Souja Erin
Major S5
Hajime no Ippo: New Challenger

Standouts:

Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood
Kemono no Souja Erin

2008:

Chaos;Head
One Outs
Inazuma Eleven
Clannad: After Story
Toradora
Nijuu Mensou no Musume
Code Geass S2
True Tears
Major S4

Standouts:

Clannad: After Story
True Tears

2007:

Kaiji
Clannad
Genshiken S2
School Days
Dennou Coil
Bokurano
Terra e
Claymore
Tengen Toppa: Guren Lagann
Major S3

Standouts:

Claymore
Dennou Coil
Bokurano
School Days
Kaiji

2006:

Code Geass
Death Note
Kenichi
Pumpkin Scissors
Welcome to the NHK
Air Gear
Gintama
Suzumiya Haruhi S1

Standouts:

Death Note
Gintama
Code Geass
Welcome to the NHK

2005:

I's Pure
Mushishi
Noein
Akagi
Eureka Seven
Eyeshield 21

Standouts:

Noein
Akagi
Eureka Seven

2004:

Major S1
Yakitate Japan
Genshiken
Beck
Fantastic Children
Bleach
Gantz S2
Gantz S1
Elfenlied
Tenjou Tenge

Standouts:

Beck
Fantastic Children
Gantz S1

[Sapphire]

Dragon Ball super stands out for you?

These are some standouts for me but I don't know the years they came out.

Promised Neverland
Hunter X Hunter
Re: Zero
Kemonozume
Michiko to Hatchin

[MFauli]

Dragon Ball super stands out for you?



Once you accepted that power levels are irrelevant, it was pure hype. Similar to Kuroko no Basuke, except with the nostalgia bonus of DB. And I wasn't alone, considering all the mass live watchings you can find on youtube :)

[shinta|hikari]

But isn't that gigantic suspension of disbelief already enough to disqualify it? Fighting shows are largely about power levels, after all.

[MFauli]

Shinta, post your own list pls. I'm not going to change mine because you find it stupid :]

DBS delivered on continuing the DB story in a satisfying manner, that's enough to make it the list.

[shinta|hikari]

I'm not trying to change your mind.

This is an old list I rated as masterpiece in ANN ages ago so it doesn't have any recent shows. This is a subjective list that definitely takes into account my preferences instead of just focusing on objective quality of a show.



Aria the Origination (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=8657)
Masterpiece


Baccano! (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=7492)
Masterpiece


Bakemonogatari (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10196)
Masterpiece


Banner of the Stars (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=447)
Masterpiece


Banner of the Stars II (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=448)
Masterpiece


Banner of the Stars III (OAV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=4899)
Masterpiece


Chrono Crusade (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2884)
Masterpiece


Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6704)
Masterpiece


Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=9173)
Masterpiece


Crest of the Stars (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=14)
Masterpiece


Cross Game (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10580)
Masterpiece


(The) Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya (movie) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=11120)
Masterpiece


ef: a tale of memories (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=8192)
Masterpiece


El Hazard - The Magnificent World (OAV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=16)
Masterpiece


Evangelion: 2.0 You Can (Not) Advance (movie) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=8421)
Masterpiece


Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=15843)
Masterpiece


Fate/Zero (TV 2) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=14122)
Masterpiece


Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=4449)
Masterpiece


(The) Garden of Sinners (movie series) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=7472)
Masterpiece


(The) Garden of Words (movie) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=14995)
Masterpiece


Haré+Guu (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1140)
Masterpiece


Haré+Guu Deluxe (OAV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2024)
Masterpiece


Honey and Clover (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=4975)
Masterpiece


Honey and Clover II (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6440)
Masterpiece


Jungle Wa Itsumo Hale Nochi Guu Final (OAV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=3435)
Masterpiece


Katanagatari (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=10765)
Masterpiece


(The) Legend of the Galactic Heroes (OAV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1786)
Masterpiece


A Lull in the Sea (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=14858)
Masterpiece


(The) Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6430)
Masterpiece


Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion (movie) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=419)
Masterpiece


Passage of the Stars - Birth (special) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=787)
Masterpiece


Planetes (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2654)
Masterpiece


Puella Magi Madoka Magica (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=12120)
Masterpiece


Puella Magi Madoka Magica The Movie Part 3: Rebellion (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=14850)
Masterpiece


RahXephon (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=849)
Masterpiece


Rurouni Kenshin: Trust & Betrayal (OAV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=210)
Masterpiece


(The) Tatami Galaxy (TV) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=11200)
Masterpiece


Time of Eve (ONA) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=7998)
Masterpiece


Time of Eve (movie) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=11350)
Masterpiece


(The) Wind Rises (movie) (https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=14975)
Masterpiece

[MFauli]

Lots of stuff I'd put in my list, too. And I'm reminded that I effing neef to watch El Hazard. I caught one episode on tv like a decade or more ago, and I loved what I saw.

On the other hand, I'll never get the hype surrounding Planetes. It's a good anime. Just not ... all that. 🤷*♀️

[Munsu]

Some of mine, masterpieces or not, what I remember really liking:

Twelve Kingdoms
Monster
Berserk (original)
Boku dake ga Inai Machi
Hunter X Hunter (Both versions)
Fullmetal Alchemist (Both versions)
Now and Then, Here and There
Cross Game
Touch
Legend of Galactic Heroes
Slam Dunk
Black Lagoon
Twin Spica
Kodomo no Omocha
Kimagure Orange Road
Planetes
Rurouni Kenshin (all, particularly the OVAs)
Nodame Cantabile
Hajime no Ippo
Ghost in the Shell (all of it with varying degrees)
Chihayafuru
Hikaru no Go
Great Teacher Onizuka
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
Rahxephon
Blue Gender
Cowboy Bebop
Trigun
Baccano!
Chrno Crusade
Kaiba
Hellsing Ultimate
Banner/Crest of the Stars
Kingdom
Full Metal Panic (all)
Attack on Titan
Samurai Champloo
School Rumble
Gankutsuou
Neon Genesis Evangelion
FLCL
Darker than Black
Last Exile
Scrapped Princess
Project ARMS

[Death BOO Z]

are you rating them based on how you remember them or did you watch the shows again?

[MFauli]

are you rating them based on how you remember them or did you watch the shows again?

Haven't watched them recently, but I'm picking stuff I feel confident about. I plan to rewatch lots of series, though.

[Munsu]

are you rating them based on how you remember them or did you watch the shows again?

I've only watched 2 shows more than once, Hunter X Hunter and Hajime no Ippo.

[shinta|hikari]

I also rewatch things very rarely, but I can definitely accurately describe WHY I rated them like that. If it isn't objective excellence in direction/art/writing, it'd be a very subjective aspect that I still remember clearly even now.

[KrayZ33]

In my opinion, a lot of people are forgetting to mention:
Spice and Wolf


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6q1AWnjNiU

The opening alone is so freaking chill. It's one of the most interesting stories I remember to be honest. I'm not saying it's the only of it's kind - it probably isn't (or is it?), but I honestly can not remember a single anime I've watched (and I'm certainly someone who watches quite a bit) that has a similar focus (merchants, economy, medieval times, folklore, love story). That's why it will always be a highlight to me


And Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash is and will always be a highlight for me too. Once again, a completely different take on a genre/story that I haven't seen in another show.


When I look at the past, I remember shows that were more diverse and felt completely "new".. like Cowboy Bebop for example... but maybe that's just an illusion. It's not like these shows were there every single season.
So I'd say the quality remained the same. Gems have been found and will come and go - and most of the stuff that aired in the past was trash too.

[MFauli]

Reminder for myself that I need to finish this at least until 2010, so I can make a proper Top of the Decade-list ;o

[MFauli]

Remembered this thread and just got done updating my list above. Wow, time flies by, 2018 was my last update. And it's pretty obvious that Corona is at fault for not only that but also the decline in great anime (at least for me). Just look at the difference from 2019 to 2020, lol. Anime basically came to a halt in 2020 and only the most reliable franchises continued. 2021 has been better again, but we'll see how 2022 can fare. Anyway, feel free to post your own lists or update them if you already have. I find this thread useful to spend time reflecting on the true personal masterpieces and whether or not anime as a medium is getting better/worse.

2022:
Ousama Ranking
Shuumatsu no Harem
Kimetsu no Yaiba S3

Standouts:

Ousama Ranking

2021:

Beastars S2
Yakusoku no Neverland S2
Kumo desuga, Nanika
Mushoku Tensei
Redo of Healer
Mashiro no Oto
Nomad: Megalo Box S2
Tokyo Revengers
Fumetsu no Anata e
Cestus

Standouts:

Fumetsu no Anata



2020:

Honzuki S2
Kaguya-sama S2
Deca Dence
Re:Zero S2
Shingeki no Kyojin Final Season Part 1

Standouts:

Deca Dence


2019:

Egao no Daika
Mob Psycho S2
Yakusoku no Neverland
Kakegurui S2
Tate no Yuusha
Kaguya-sama
Domestic-na Kanojo
Kimetsu no Yaiba
Isekai Quartet
One-Punch Man S2
Araburu Kisetsu no Otome-domo yo
Karakai Jouzu na Takagi-san S2
Vinland Saga
Honzuki
Beastars

Standouts:

Kaguya-sama
Kimetsu no Yaiba
Beastars

[KrayZ33]

I still find it extremely difficult to look at it without giving more recent shows a way better rating than older ones.

if I exclude movies and make my "Animes Of The Last Decades"-list they'd currently include:

Grimgar,
Spice&Wolf,
Fate/Zero,
Vinland Saga,
Cowboy Bebop,
Mushoku,
Gundam Iron Blooded Orphans,
School Rumble,
Newer FMA,
Older FMP (the new season was kinda shit) and mostly for the comedy season anyway,
Meglobox,
Oofuri,
Haikyu,
Maria The Virgin Witch.

I'd personally recommend the bolded ones a little more than the others.
But it's going to be a list that can be expanded upon once someone mentions an anime I just can't remember right now.

[Ryllharu]

I'll stand by my original statment where you need to go back to at least 1995 to find the shit that really holds up:

So a random smattering of the "Not Quite Iconic" series out there (i.e. I'm excluding stuff like Eva, Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Slayers, FMP, FMA, Lucky Star, Geass, etc.). If I really loved a series at the time, but have forgotten about it, it isn't on this list, as intended by the thread.

1988:
Gunbuster

1996:
Martian Successor Nadesico

2000:
VanDread

2001:
Hellsing (yes, the original)

2002:
Kiddy Grade
Onegai Teacher

2003:
Kaleido Star
Air Master
Planetes
Kimi ga Nozomu Eien
Onegai Twins

2005:
ARIA (all seasons though)
Mai-Otome

2006:
Busou Renkin
(yeah...it's 90% the OP and the running gag where the female lead's presence is instantly accepted because she is presumed to be his girlfriend)
Higurashi
xxxHOLIC
Black Lagoon

2007:
Moyashimon S1
Ef - a Tale of Memories.
Baccano
Higurashi Kai

2008:
Itazura na Kiss
Toradora (I still fucking hate it, and while arguably "iconic," I won't deny that I remember the bird's name was Bisque)
Isekai no Seikishi Monogatari

2009:
Umineko no Naku Koro ni (yes, it is the OP again)
Ladies versus Butlers!
Katanagatari

2010:
Otome Youkai Zakuro
Qwaser (If you've seen it, you can't forget it...)

2011:
Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica (the first series to make create truly iconic status in quite a while before it)
Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae o Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai.
Qwaser II (yes, it is indeed worse, but the point from before still stands)
Mayo Chiki!
Mawaru Penguindrum
Fate/Zero (despite ufotable continuing to outdo themselves, this one still holds up)
Chihayafuru (just s1 holds up)
Senki Zesshou Symphogear

2012:
Uchuu Senkan Yamato 2199
Robotics;Notes
Girls und Panzer

2013:
Kakumeiki Valvrave (yes, I remember all of it vividly)
Non Non Biyori (all seasons)
Kill la Kill (arguably iconic and wouldn't need to be included)
Nagi no Asukara
PuPiPo!

2014:
No Game No Life
Kenzen Robo Daimidaler
Death Parade

2015:
Himouto! Umaru-chan (kinda hate it, but S1 holds up and started the genre that begat Uzaki and Nagatoro)
Monster Musume no Iru Nichijou

2016:
Keijo!!!!!!!!

2017:
Sakura Quest
Sora yori mo Tooi Basho
Demi-chan wa Kataritai
Isekai Shokudou
Netojuu no Susume
Emiya-san Chi no Kyou no Gohan (through 2019)
Mahoutsukai no Yome

2018:
Back Street Girls: Gokudols


I'm going to stop there because there hasn't been enough time for forget the next few years of series, but as I went through this list, 2018 was the objectively the absolute worst year for anime. I remember basically none of the series I was watching that entire year.

I can't count Yuru Camp in 2018 because I watched it in 2021.

[DarthEnderX]

Fighting shows are largely about power levels, after all.I mean...they're arguably almost never about power levels.

[shinta|hikari]

How do you mean?

[MFauli]

Bump

So I can find this thread again when I continue editing my list :>

Continued my list until 2004. Man, anyone saying "anime is just as good nowadays as it was back then" is just plain lying. So many classics back then in a single year. <3

[shinta|hikari]

Nostalgia.

[Ryllharu]

Nostalgia.

That's all this is. Rose-colored glasses to try to back up a claim that is fundamentally untrue due to its subjectivity.

MFauli claims 2004 was a banner year, and I didn't list a single series from that year. Looking back to it, there was some truly fucking garbage series that year too.

[MFauli]

Nostalgia.

I'm currently rewatching Dragon Ball Z and it's better than Super or Daima so far.

The "it's just nostalgia"-retort always comes from people too scared to admit that past things were sometimes better.

[KrayZ33]

I'm currently rewatching Dragon Ball Z and it's better than Super or Daima so far.

The "it's just nostalgia"-retort always comes from people too scared to admit that past things were sometimes better.

Or the "the past was better" comes from people who just became bitter.

[shinta|hikari]

past things were sometimes better.

Sometimes being the operative word. The actual pattern is it is the same or better in more modern times due to technological progress. It is however true that we have a lot more trash to wade through now because more shows are being produced than ever.

[MFauli]

Or the "the past was better" comes from people who just became bitter.

I mean, again, I'm rewatching these old anime rn and so far they all hold up and ARE significantly better than what's currently airing or in recent years. Not sure why this is controversial either.

[Ryllharu]

Selectively comparing the isolated gems of previous years and decades to present-day dreck isn't controversial...but it is fully disingenuous.

You're repeatedly ignoring the garbage of those same years. There's just as much middling forgettable series in the mid-2000s and 2010s than there now.

Fun fact: 2004 has the worst rated anime of all time in it (and also the third worst rated).

You're also treating the alleged quality as an isolated variable while ignoring the fact that you've very likely just burnt out on anime in general or at least certain genres after 20 years of watching it. I know I have. The stuff you're nostalgic for now was back when you enjoyed watching it because it was fresh and novel and therefore it "holds up" while series in the same sphere but made today feel like something you've seen a dozen times before, because you have.

Isekai isn't new. Censorship isn't new. Non-isekai Fantasy has never been popular in anime.

[Death BOO Z]

Fun fact: 2004 has the worst rated anime of all time in it (and also the third worst rated)..

which are?

also, this is probably a good thing, it means that the industry was willing to take chances and aired something which was very "out there", it could be a mega hit or a miss. and in this case, it was a miss. could have just as easily been a hit like FMA.

[Ryllharu]

Hametsu no Mars & SD Gundam Force.

They weren't taking chances. One was a garbage cash grab of a big franchise and the other is the infamous trash VN adaptation.

At least EX-ARM was a disaster because the production team had never animated anything before.

[MFauli]

You're repeatedly ignoring the garbage of those same years. There's just as much middling forgettable series in the mid-2000s and 2010s than there now.

... are you dumb?

Why would anyone compare the WORST of anything? Any medium has lots of trash. Why does this matter? A year full of medicore stuff is not better than than year with tons of trash that has some true masterpieces.

You're completely warped in the head to be so confident about your stance, when you're the one with the weird, nonsensical attitude. Yes, I'm comparing the best of each year - how does that NOT make sense?! Only that way can I see at a glimpse how good a year has been. And 2004 happens to have had a lot of alltime classics (according to my taste). Why would I look at any trash anime of that year?

I truly, 100% do not understand what your argument here is.

[shinta|hikari]

He is saying you are comparing the best of multiple years versus more recent but singular seasons. If you are comparing one-to-one, there will be variances since some seasons are stacked and some are not, but it will not be a pattern of older is better. Some newer seasons have great works in them that rank similarly to old classics. In fact, in a few more years, these will be considered part of the older classics.

[MFauli]

He is saying you are comparing the best of multiple years versus more recent but singular seasons..

Where am I doing that?

[Ryllharu]

Where am I doing that?

Literally yesterday. The entire premise of this thread. Throughout this thread. In multiple other threads repeatedly.


Man, anyone saying "anime is just as good nowadays as it was back then" is just plain lying. So many classics back then in a single year. <3

The one starting this discussion every time is you. Same disingenuous baseless assertion each time.

[MFauli]

Literally yesterday. The entire premise of this thread. Throughout this thread. In multiple other threads repeatedly.



The one starting this discussion every time is you. Same disingenuous baseless assertion each time.

Again, WHAT is the mistake here?

I'm saying anime were better in the past. And my list proves that imo. What triggers you so much? My opinion?

[Ryllharu]

Again, WHAT is the mistake here?

I'm saying anime were better in the past. And my list proves that imo. What triggers you so much? My opinion?

Yes, because it is a bullshit opinion that's reliant on your delusion that anime was better in the past. Take off the blinders and look at the garbage that aired around your highlights from the past. The floor wasn't any lower then and the ceiling isn't lower now. It's objective fact that the average is better today than it was in the past.

Just because you're burnt out on anime doesn't mean there isn't good stuff today, it just doesn't meet your edgelord taste.

[MFauli]

look at the garbage that aired around your highlights from the past.


WHY?!?

are you trolling?

[shinta|hikari]

We can't all be trolls, Mfauli. Not saying that you can't have your opinion, but don't get mad when the vast majority of people disagree with you.

[MFauli]

We can't all be trolls, Mfauli. Not saying that you can't have your opinion, but don't get mad when the vast majority of people disagree with you.

But what Ryll is doing has nothing to do with opinions. He's insisting on some weird ass evaluation system where one is forced to compare THE WORST anime of a year to reach the "true" quality assessment for that year. How does that make any sense? I honestly don't understand his thought process here.

When people talk about "the best year for video games" and then some say "oh, it's 1999" - "nah, it's 2004" - "no, it's 1998!", they compare THE BEST games of these years. Nobody compares the garbage that also releases in these years.

[shinta|hikari]

That's not what he is saying. He is saying that past years of anime are not objectively better than current years of anime. He is saying you are overly emphasizing the best entries for a number of years and comparing it to each year's output.

The truth is every year is variable, with some being better and some worse, but the overall pattern does NOT show that older shows are better as a trend. It is either equal or newer seasons being better overall due to art and tech progress.

[Y]

The best years of the industry are vastly superior to the modern era in both the sense that the best shows are better and there were far less shows being made so the average is better. There's probably more bad isekai shows alone being made this year than there were total shows in 1995.

EDIT:

1995 has Evangelion and Gundam Wing out of 17 total TV shows airing. Let's say all the other ones are dogshit, sorry Fushigi Yugi and Gunsmith Cats and Slayers, I never watched that shit, whatever. So 2 out of 17 are great (or 1 out of 17, if you're being mean to poor old Gundam Wing).

There were 222 TV shows aired last year according to my quick math on Wikipedia. This means there need to be what, a dozen-ish Evangelion-level shows and a dozen-ish Gundam Wing shows to match 1995. Or you need to argue, equally implausibly, that the average show is now vastly superior and so it rescues 2023, despite the fact that the average show airing now is titled something like Reborn As A Pedophile In A Fantasy MMO.

[MFauli]

That's not what he is saying. He is saying that past years of anime are not objectively better than current years of anime. He is saying you are overly emphasizing the best entries for a number of years and comparing it to each year's output.

The truth is every year is variable, with some being better and some worse, but the overall pattern does NOT show that older shows are better as a trend. It is either equal or newer seasons being better overall due to art and tech progress.

I'm judging whether a year is good or not by the amount of great anime that released during that year, yes. Like every normal person would do.

[shinta|hikari]

And what we are saying is that if you do that, recent years are similar in quality to those farther in the past. We still get amazing shows now. Of course I cannot convince you of this, so just treat it as another opinion, just like how I treat yours.

I do agree with Y that mathematically, the true average of shows has declined just because of the sheer amount being produced. This is allowed by technological advancement as well as just the enormous increase in the anime industry due to global popularity. That said, due to the same technology, the shows now are generally better animated with better coloring because of new tech and automation. I would not say art because we know there are a lot of garbage isekai shows that are being produced with almost no budget.

[MFauli]

And what we are saying is that if you do that, recent years are similar in quality to those farther in the past. We still get amazing shows now. Of course I cannot convince you of this, so just treat it as another opinion, just like how I treat yours.

Why would you convince me of what is an opinion?

But hey, let's play your game: I also think that OBJECTIVELY the quality has gone down. What's changed is your own standard, because you'Ve given up on demanding better. Because you know it's not getting better anymore.

[KrayZ33]

Why would you convince me of what is an opinion?


What's that question, considering you are trying to do exactly that yourself?
What unit of measure do you use that has any objectivity to it and is not entirely subjective.

[Y]

That said, due to the same technology, the shows now are generally better animated with better coloring because of new tech and automation. .

There are changes in the industry, advancements perhaps from the perspective of the executives who were able to cut costs and fire in-betweeners. Not advancements in the sense that things look better. Technology does not make a show look good inherently, no more than spending 300 million dollars on CGI automatically makes a modern blockbuster better looking than Star Wars or Terminator.

They are especially not "better animated", as "better animation" is almost always a function of just having a large production budget, talented artists and lax deadlines. It has little to nothing to do with technology.

[shinta|hikari]

Untrue. Drawing and coloring are now all done digitally, whereas before they were done with pencils and many layers for coloring and shading. This has made things much easier and more detailed. Heck, even our screens can now depict detail that simply did not exist before prior to new technology. In fact, we are remastering old works by using similar tech to make them look better because old stuff really does not hold up to our current standard.

Compare the Evangelion anime versus the Evangelion movies. Compare the original Fate Stay Night to Fate Zero or Unlimited Blade Works. It's not that they didn't want to or have the budget to make the newer, better looking versions. They simply did not have the technology for it.

Another example is Miyazaki's works. Yes, his art and animation are incredible. But the older works are not as good in those terms as the newer ones (Porco Rosso vs The Boy and the Heron). Then compare it visually to the newer Makoto Shinkai works, which have amazing visuals, especially for view and environment shots. I don't think those visuals are even possible using exclusively pencil art.

[Y]

Untrue. Drawing and coloring are now all done digitally, whereas before they were done with pencils and many layers for coloring and shading. This has made things much easier and more detailed.

There is nothing about technology that enables "more detail". That's just a function of what *I* said: money, time, talent. There are Renaissance painters who put the reflection of the whole room the subject is in in the person's eye or on the side of a vase or whatever. Now you can do that with CGI, but that doesn't mean modern CGI shows look as good as the works of Renaissance masters.

The modern Berserk show uses far more technology than the 90s OVA, and indeed has objectively more frames of moving animation than that show which was largely stills with camera movements suggesting motion, but you are just going to get derisive laughter from me if you suggest it actually looks better as a consequence. It looks like fucking shit.


Compare the Evangelion anime versus the Evangelion movies.

No problem: End of Evangelion looks a *lot* better than the Rebuilds.


But the older works are not as good in those terms as the newer ones (Porco Rosso vs The Boy and the Heron).

I've never seen either of these films but this is a good example: for me, that is. He started storyboarding the film in 2016 and it released in 2023, a production time of seven years, it was the most expensive film ever produced in Japan, and was hand-animated by the most talented Japanese animation studio and director ever to exist. Money, time, and talent produced this film, not the hottest new CGI workstation.

[MFauli]

Is this now the "hot takes"-thread?

Because while modern technology is surely helpful in the mass-creation of anime, I would absolutely disagree that anime per se look better now than in the past. The Ranma 1/2-remake is the perfect example. Does the remake maybe have more details and a cleaner look? Sure. But it also looks less "alive" and has less personality. The same is true for pretty much all older, hand-drawn anime. And even though I love the Evangelion Rebuild-movies, the issue with them is that what you're calling "better animation" is also very clearly noticable to be computer-assisted animation, whereas the original anime, whether it's End of Evangelion or the TV anime, have a more coherent, believable style of animation.

I'd say the best animated anime from old compared to new are all in all on par, but if I had a choice, I'd like to have hand-drawn anime in HD.

[Y]

Is this now the "hot takes"-thread?


Yeah sorry my posts are only sort of related to the topic, I haven't seen enough shows per year even in the years I was actually watching anime to organize a list like this.

[shinta|hikari]

I wasn't specifically talking about CGI but other tools in general that aid in drawing, animating, and coloring, but you guys clearly see "better animation" as something different than I do, and that, in the end, is a matter of preference.

Let's agree to disagree. Have a good day.

[MFauli]

Yeah sorry my posts are only sort of related to the topic, I haven't seen enough shows per year even in the years I was actually watching anime to organize a list like this.

I didn't mean it negatively :D Feel free to keep posting, I like the topic ^^

[Y]

I wasn't specifically talking about CGI but other tools in general that aid in drawing, animating, and coloring, but you guys clearly see "better animation" as something different than I do, and that, in the end, is a matter of preference.


I'd like to hit this from two angles.

One, I don't think we really differ that much. Asuka fighting the mass produced Evangelion series in EoE looks better than any action sequence in Rebuild, right? The animation is more lavish, it's more elaborately choreographed, the Evangelions and the huge blades they wield are imbued with weight in a way that virtually nothing in Rebuild is (or in the entire rest of the industry for that matter). It looks astonishingly good, as good now as it did 25 years ago or whatever.

Do you really think that Asuka and Mari fighting the skeletonized Eva series in Rebuild 4, for example, is a match for this sequence because technology improved? I don't mind this setpiece, it's just not in the same ballpark. If you think it trounces EoE that's wild.

The other angle is, yes, art is subjective, but saying that Miyazaki's new movies look better because of improved technology is not a subjective assertion, it's an assertion of fact, and an untrue one.

[shinta|hikari]

Whatever you say.

[KrayZ33]

One, I don't think we really differ that much. Asuka fighting the mass produced Evangelion series in EoE looks better than any action sequence in Rebuild, right?

No.

You may say it's cooler because she does all kinds of fatalaties or whatever but that has nothing to do with how it looks in general.
Rebuild 1.11 against Ramiel is way more gorgeous. When he melts away the mountain between him and EVA01 for example, it's something EoE couldn't hope to achieve.

Btw, that doesn't mean EoE looks bad, that specific scene looks great, among others, the show also has lots of weird ones though that look pretty derpy, even back then.
Just like how Rebuild has lots of weird stuff among really great scenes.



Why focus on good examples vs bad examples btw.

Use bad vs bad or good vs good.
The uglier shows of 199X look way more horrible than the uglier ones from today.
Even the uglified Hazurewaku (or something like that) show that aired last season, with garbage 3d CGI in it for no reason, is looking better than for example Slayers from the 199X years. But we don't even have to compare 2 different shows.

2009 Slayers is looking better than the old Slayers too and not due to low resolution, but due to how it was animated in general. (movements, detail etc.)



When you go to the prettier ones like Cowboy Bebop or Ghost in the Shell, then there is only the case to be made that someone prefers handdrawn over digital art.
Shows like Violet Evergarden exist, Arcane exists and who knows how many movies from the typical studios that made good stuff back then and still do it today.


Just like with computer games, there is a reason why people that come to the media for the first time don't watch all the classics (I'd argue they drop the media alltogether if you just recommend the classics), seems like either animation isn't timeless or it wasn't that special to begin with compared to stuff that releases today.
And just like it is with computer games, people that want to argue that games in the past were better are just absolutely insane.
Games that throned an entire genre would now be considered absolute garbage and people would complain if they had to pay more than 10€ for it, which is basically the equivalent of 5€ 20 years ago when they used to cost 40+€.
And I'm not talking about computer graphics here, I'm talking about features - or lack thereof

WC3 pathfinding and unit selection cap, for example?
Get that garbage out of here. Imagine a new title releasing like that and the rage on the forums and the screamers that want the devs to be killed for that.

[Y]

When he melts away the mountain between him and EVA01 for example, it's something EoE couldn't hope to achieve.


What about that shot in particular is impossible? It's a five-second shot of the mountain being destroyed by a laser. This is a staging difference, not a technological improvement, unless you are asserting it is somehow impossible prior to the advent of modern digital filmmaking techniques for animators to draw a laser melting a mountain.

[KrayZ33]

Why is it important what was possible or impossible back then.
The fact is that EoE couldn't hope to achieve that, or scenes like that would've been implemented with the same kind of quality.
They weren't - and it would look completely different as well to the point where a comparison would then again be completely moot.
You are somehow confusing what's technically possible with what is affordable to make and animate.

That's why you see the heat emitted from the engines of the military flying machines-things in a close up in Rebuild while in EoE they look like they work on invisible magnetism and the engine is basically suggested by not colouring that part at all.


https://imgur.com/a/7PZ8968


If a show can't afford it, it's not in there, if technology makes it affordable, it's in there.
Thus the quality of the product increased, through technology.
The earlier example you used about how artists were able to paint the reflection of a room on a vase or whatever is pretty irrelevant.
Animation is an industry, you get X hours per project. Back in 1995 as well as in 2024.
Digital Art made it possible to complete stuff faster, with better/same quality due to how the tools assist the artist.

And it's not only that, you ignore the fact that stuff like resolution is a thing and thus all kinds of details that previously perhaps have been actually drawn (or could have been) are lost on the device it copied onto.
Shinta is 100% correct, factually, because that's just a thing and something that's still true today in many cases, most notably in computer games for example.
But even in movies, and in anime as well.

On top of that, you can actually zoom in on digital art and get pixel perfect detail, you can't do that when actually drawing with a pencil and if it has to be coloured, it gets even more messy.
It's physically impossible to achieve the same detail digital art allows you to, even if you go out of your way and say that artist work like people that assemble a rolex watch.

[MFauli]

Why focus on good examples vs bad examples btw.

Use bad vs bad or good vs good.
The uglier shows of 199X look way more horrible than the uglier ones from today.
Even the uglified Hazurewaku (or something like that) show that aired last season, with garbage 3d CGI in it for no reason, is looking better than for example Slayers from the 199X years. But we don't even have to compare 2 different shows.



This is actually a perfect example of what's the problem with modern anime versus older ones.

You're totally right that the worst anime nowadays look better than the worst anime back then. BUT: More older anime look better than the majority of the better modern anime. Modern technology made it easier to raise the average quality, but it didn't help elevate the ceiling, and that's a problem. Why? Because too many anime studios are content with this technological average and stop trying.

I can tell this by looking at some modern anime that I actually liked, very much even, but have shit animation, which shouldn't be the case. Stuff like "Honzuki", "Spider Isekai" or "Kokkoku" shouldn't look as shit as they did and probably wouldn't, had they been animated 20 years ago. But "thanks" to modern technology, studios saw that they could achieve an "acceptable" result and simply stopped trying. And that's why, even with all the technological benefits, the number of truly breathtaking looking anime series is very rare, mostly limited to singular scenes that some nerds will call "sakuga" just because it's not shit for a couple seconds.

The biggest issue for older anime to compete with the best modern ones is their format. 4:3 instantly looks "old". But zooming in to turn it into 16:9 makes the linework too obvious, too thick, and thus looks bad, too. Instead of remaking anime like Ranma 1/2, maybe someone should remake older anime by expanding their detail from 4:3 to 16:9. Just draw in the left and right side, lol.

[Y]

No.

You may say it's cooler because she does all kinds of fatalaties or whatever but that has nothing to do with how it looks in general.
Rebuild 1.11 against Ramiel is way more gorgeous. When he melts away the mountain between him and EVA01 for example, it's something EoE couldn't hope to achieve.

Btw, that doesn't mean EoE looks bad, that specific scene looks great, among others, the show also has lots of weird ones though that look pretty derpy, even back then.
Just like how Rebuild has lots of weird stuff among really great scenes.



Why focus on good examples vs bad examples btw.

Use bad vs bad or good vs good.
The uglier shows of 199X look way more horrible than the uglier ones from today.
Even the uglified Hazurewaku (or something like that) show that aired last season, with garbage 3d CGI in it for no reason, is looking better than for example Slayers from the 199X years. But we don't even have to compare 2 different shows.

2009 Slayers is looking better than the old Slayers too and not due to low resolution, but due to how it was animated in general. (movements, detail etc.)



When you go to the prettier ones like Cowboy Bebop or Ghost in the Shell, then there is only the case to be made that someone prefers handdrawn over digital art.
Shows like Violet Evergarden exist, Arcane exists and who knows how many movies from the typical studios that made good stuff back then and still do it today.


Just like with computer games, there is a reason why people that come to the media for the first time don't watch all the classics (I'd argue they drop the media alltogether if you just recommend the classics), seems like either animation isn't timeless or it wasn't that special to begin with compared to stuff that releases today.
And just like it is with computer games, people that want to argue that games in the past were better are just absolutely insane.
Games that throned an entire genre would now be considered absolute garbage and people would complain if they had to pay more than 10€ for it, which is basically the equivalent of 5€ 20 years ago when they used to cost 40+€.
And I'm not talking about computer graphics here, I'm talking about features - or lack thereof

WC3 pathfinding and unit selection cap, for example?
Get that garbage out of here. Imagine a new title releasing like that and the rage on the forums and the screamers that want the devs to be killed for that.


Why is it important what was possible or impossible back then.
The fact is that EoE couldn't hope to achieve that, or scenes like that would've been implemented with the same kind of quality.
They weren't - and it would look completely different as well to the point where a comparison would then again be completely moot.
You are somehow confusing what's technically possible with what is affordable to make and animate.

That's why you see the heat emitted from the engines of the military flying machines-things in a close up in Rebuild while in EoE they look like they work on invisible magnetism and the engine is basically suggested by not colouring that part at all.


https://imgur.com/a/7PZ8968


If a show can't afford it, it's not in there, if technology makes it affordable, it's in there.
Thus the quality of the product increased, through technology.
The earlier example you used about how artists were able to paint the reflection of a room on a vase or whatever is pretty irrelevant.
Animation is an industry, you get X hours per project. Back in 1995 as well as in 2024.
Digital Art made it possible to complete stuff faster, with better/same quality due to how the tools assist the artist.

And it's not only that, you ignore the fact that stuff like resolution is a thing and thus all kinds of details that previously perhaps have been actually drawn (or could have been) are lost on the device it copied onto.
Shinta is 100% correct, factually, because that's just a thing and something that's still true today in many cases, most notably in computer games for example.
But even in movies, and in anime as well.

On top of that, you can actually zoom in on digital art and get pixel perfect detail, you can't do that when actually drawing with a pencil and if it has to be coloured, it gets even more messy.
It's physically impossible to achieve the same detail digital art allows you to, even if you go out of your way and say that artist work like people that assemble a rolex watch.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b9/91/d1/b991d1362df433ef043e12f14588f6c8.gif

[MFauli]

Nice :D

https://64.media.tumblr.com/67ab2caff1eab7330ec1abb4655d3bf8/81de85d6fa70a2a4-9c/s540x810/84024f6def66f161df10d3baa4281eb2ca65a525.gif

[KrayZ33]

What's the problem.

[Buffalobiian]

First off, I don't have any data to back anything up. This is just how I feel about stuff. A subjective take.

Some of you are arguing about the top shows of a season (whether it be raw number, or proportion of shows produced), some of you are talking about overall average quality.

I'm not sure that the raw number or proportion has increased. I wouldn't argue with you if you say it's decreased.
There are still some very enjoyable shows each year that I end up liking.
I agree with the sentiment that if you throw enough time and money or talent at a show that it'll be good. That's just how art is.

I do agree that from an animation standpoint, the average overall has gone up.
Technology does have an element to play.
It's not that technology has made the best shows of today exceed that of the past necessarily (unless you're talking about spinning camera angle stuff).
It's moreso that technology has made producing passable quality animation less resource intensive, so it's more easily achievable.

The average isekai show these days have shit plot, but technology helps churn them out with decent animation. Proportions aren't messed up as often these days. Remember back when you'd find some show with weirdly spaced eyes or roadrunner-like junk in between key frames because the pleb animators didn't have enough time to do them correctly? That's what technology solves.
It doesn't help you make masterpieces, but it helps you not animate complete crap (story and 3D shit aside. 3D shit can be horrible, I'm talking about computer assisted animation).


My analogy to this is like doctors these days compared to doctors of the past.
The average is better, because you have lots of tech like blood tests and scans for specific diseases.
Back in the day the best doctor was still amazing and could diagnose people off looking at them etc (and who knows if they got it wrong, because they're the doctor so no one doubts them :P).
But to diagnose a heart attack you had do look at their risk factors, interpret a physical exam and guess at the ECG.
These days, a blood test can tell you if there's sign of damaged heart muscles in the blood (troponin), and if the context sounds like it could be a heart attack you go for a scan/diagnostic procedure.
There's also youtube and online sources (think of Wiki for doctors) so you can look up procedures and diseases that you otherwise wouldn't have known or heard about.

Average animation, like average doctor IMO, has improved across time.
Awesome shows still exist. I'm unsure about the overall proportion or raw number, but I feel like I still see enough good shows pop up to keep me interested in this medium.