Tate no Yuusha no Nariagari

[Kraco]

Fitoria is welcome to join the long list of people wanting to get rid of Naofumi. At this point it would be a surprise for him if she didn't.

I wish he told her that.

[David75]

The idea behind her statement is sound. If summoned heroes are a bother/useless, kill them then summon new ones.

[Kraco]

The idea behind her statement is sound. If summoned heroes are a bother/useless, kill them then summon new ones.

Haha. The idea is anything but sound. It wouldn't even be treating the symptoms instead of the disease. It would merely be killing the patient and then throwing a new person in the same filthy, contaminated bed to fall ill all over again.

What Fitoria should do is slaughter the royal family and all the supporting nobles, the church leadership, and all other scumbags. If after that the heroes still didn't manage to cooperate, it would be the time to slay the heroes and summon new ones. With nobody around to corrupt the fresh heroes, they might even cooperate perfectly naturally, even if the shield hero was still considered the weakest one. The three others would lose nothing by cooperating with the shield hero if there were no outsiders making it so they would lose, like happened with Naofumi. In the very beginning of this series they merely thought the shield hero is kind of a useless class and Naofumi is unfortunate to end up with it, but they treated him cordially enough. That all changed only when the royals, nobles, and clergy really launched their plans.

[NeoCybercoin]

Plus summoning new heroes would mean they would have to level up again and gather all the mats for their weapons once more. Though I don't know why the Kingdom doesn't just...keep rare monster parts around for when they need to summon heroes. Would make it a lot easier for them.
But it's interesting to know that the Heroes aren't supposed to be summoned together in one Kingdom and should be fighting across the world. So for every town they save they lose many more since they are all packed together.

[Kraco]

But it's interesting to know that the Heroes aren't supposed to be summoned together in one Kingdom and should be fighting across the world. So for every town they save they lose many more since they are all packed together.

It's kind of strange the heroes are supposedly required to work as a team, yet they are also supposed to be summoned in different countries. Quite a contradiction. They would gain no teamwork experience being separated, so when a wave hits and they are teleported, their cooperation would still be rudimentary at best, just like it's now.

[David75]

Why did I understand that heroes are teleported to the place the wave takes place... but it seems to contradict the idea that Fitoria has to fight all alone in every other country ?

Is there a setup to perform so that heroes can teleport to waves happening in other countries ?
Is there a distance limitation ?

Regarding my comment, well it seems our four heroes did not level that much, even our MC.
So at some point it might be just a cold decision to evaluate the odds beetween waiting for current dumbs to work together or kill them and summon new noobs...

[Kraco]

Ep 17


---


I actually find Fitoria quite interesting. Her not-quite-human personality seems to be there. She's a whole lot more powerful than Naofumi's team combined, and she knows it, but at the same time she still has the familiar/pet mentality she gained when brought up by the past shield hero. She's also quite pitiful as it's evident she's tired of life and wants to join her own shield hero in death, but she had to keep her promise and keep guarding the world. She also seems to take seriously her role as the queen of the ordinary filolials, but she sure is eager to hand over that job.

[MFauli]

Another filler-ish episode -_-

[KrayZ33]

Bird is the word, and once again, Firo is the most likeable loli I've seen in a while.

"mada-dame! :mad:" *denies camel sized birbs access to food*

fucking delightful.

[KrayZ33]

Oh wow, I thought I'm watching an anime... must have downloaded the visual novel or something, didn't see a whole lot of moving frames.

[Kraco]

Ep 18


- - - -



Having the spear hero taste his own medicine was the best part of this episode. And in fact pretty much the only part that really mattered. Malty doesn't really matter.

[neflight86]

I didnt notice the static nature of the episode when my eyes are rolled back in my head. My greatest fear now is that Myne and Spear hero become allies without proper restitution.

Another evil church... that's so anime...

[MFauli]

Naofumi AGAIN trying to cinvince Motoyasu with words was infuriatingly dumb.

Anf fuck, I can't stand that red haired bitch. Slow rape to death is the only outcome I'll accept or else this whole anime is shit:/

[MFauli]

My greatest fear now is that Myne and Spear hero become allies without proper restitution....

If Myne goes unpunished, I'll drop this shit.

[NeoCybercoin]

I don't think Naofumi is kind enough to let her go unpunished.

[MFauli]

I don't think Naofumi is kind enough to let her go unpunished.

"Now that the whole kimgdom knows what a terrible, cheap person you are, I'll leave you be. Live a life in shame. Bye."

Or some similar weakass bs :/

[KrayZ33]

to be fair, how was Naofumi supposed to convince him with anything other than words?

Not like he can do a whole lot? I think he handled it quite well.
He didn't even seek to talk with him. He was basically forced into it because he actually planed to go right through him across the border.

[shinta|hikari]

If words failed about twice, I would've convinced him using sheer force. If you beat him down until he can't do anything anymore, and then properly explain, and then heal and free them afterwards, they'd at least know you could've killed them but clearly didn't. That'd go against the idea that Naofumi killed the other heroes, making it more likely for anyone, including the Spear dood, to believe him.

If they still didn't after that, then the heroes will get killed by gigabird.

[MFauli]

to be fair, how was Naofumi supposed to convince him with anything other than words?.

I wouldn't have tried that bs to begin with.

I'd have told gigabird to team up with me. Gigabird clearly is stronger than anything else, clearly stronger than the heroes, so there's that.

Ofc, Gigabird can't team up because REASONS (aka author didn't know how to write himself out of that corner).

[KrayZ33]

If words failed about twice, I would've convinced him using sheer force. If you beat him down until he can't do anything anymore, and then properly explain, and then heal and free them afterwards, they'd at least know you could've killed them but clearly didn't. That'd go against the idea that Naofumi killed the other heroes, making it more likely for anyone, including the Spear dood, to believe him.

If they still didn't after that, then the heroes will get killed by gigabird.

But he didn't just stand there doing nothing did he?

He actually fought him. So.. it's not like he didn't use sheer force?
In fact, he acted exactly how you just said you would.

He asked to listen to him, Spear wouldn't listen. He has then beaten Spear in combat, then told him to hear him out once more, then protected him (and the others) from certain death.


I'd have told gigabird to team up with me. Gigabird clearly is stronger than anything else, clearly stronger than the heroes, so there's that.

Ofc, Gigabird can't team up because REASONS (aka author didn't know how to write himself out of that corner).

there is absolutely no point in getting Gigabird involved.
They are supposed to reconcile, using force to achieve that won't really help them working together

[shinta|hikari]

Not exactly. He defended against the dude's attacks while trying to explain himself. The moment the enemy ignored your pleas and attacked you, that's the moment you use your most potent weapons to defeat and immobilize him. Then talk again.

I'm so sick and tired of seeing characters try to talk to enemies who are whaling at them.

[Kraco]

I'd have told gigabird to team up with me. Gigabird clearly is stronger than anything else, clearly stronger than the heroes, so there's that.

Why exactly would Gigabird team up with Naofumi? A weakling failure of a hero who can't even work in the four heroes team that the summoned heroes are supposed to operate as. And who's a wanted criminal in his country, to boot. That's like the lousiest business proposition you could imagine to ever get. Gigabird is far better off working alone than in Naofumi's company, for the time being. If I was Gigabird, I wouldn't even think about it until Naofumi is considerably stronger.

In reality I reckon Gigabird knows something the heroes don't know. Something that only the heroes working together (when they are far stronger) can only handle. So, it would be pointless to only work with Naofumi. That's the kind of impression Fitoria's actions gave me.

[shinta|hikari]

Gigabird can tank for him and make him stronger. She can also convince the other heroes to reconcile with him, or at least give him the benefit of the doubt and let him prove himself through time. Just letting Naofumi leave like that is the worst decision if her goal is for the heroes to reconcile and become stronger.

What is she even doing right now? I just wished they explained how she is occupied.

The kill all the 4 heroes doesn't seem to be in her to do list anymore after he gave her a lap pillow.

[KrayZ33]

Not exactly. He defended against the dude's attacks while trying to explain himself. The moment the enemy ignored your pleas and attacked you, that's the moment you use your most potent weapons to defeat and immobilize him. Then talk again.

What?

I mean, I'm rewatching that part just now... it's *exactly* how I explained it and how you would have done it. Even the "trying to talk it out about twice before going with sheer force"

They talked, Spear attacked, he told him to calm down, didn't work -> they fought -> he won -> he told him again to calm the fuck down -> he rescued his ass.
Let's please not nitpick on wether he should've done it one attempt earlier or not.


The lightning cage pretty much started the arena fight - involving all participants in this battle, before Spear attacked, Naofumi asked him one last time to stop that nonsense. The first attack was made and then they fought until spear got defeated, without further talk about stopping it.

[Kraco]

Gigabird can tank for him and make him stronger. She can also convince the other heroes to reconcile with him, or at least give him the benefit of the doubt and let him prove himself through time. Just letting Naofumi leave like that is the worst decision if her goal is for the heroes to reconcile and become stronger.

Why does she need to hold his hand? She already saved them by taking out the tyrannosaurus. She gave him some extra shield modes. She made Filo stronger. She gave some info as well. She has done plenty for a lap pillow moment.

[KrayZ33]

Isn't she occupied with defeating the waves all over the world (or whatever region she covers) anyway?
Or who does that.

[MFauli]

.

What is she even doing right now? I just wished they explained how she is occupied.

.

That's the biggest issue atm. Gigabird is an overpowered plot device that ... is not part of the plot because ... REASONS.

Unless we get a real good explanation at some point, it's just bad, amateurish writing.

[shinta|hikari]

I mean, I'm rewatching that part just now... it's *exactly* how I explained it and how you would have done it. Even the "trying to talk it out about twice before going with sheer force"


It's exactly how YOU explained it, not how I would've done it. Here is what I said I would've done:


"He defended against the dude's attacks while trying to explain himself. The moment the enemy ignored your pleas and attacked you, that's the moment you use your most potent weapons to defeat and immobilize him. Then talk again.

I'm so sick and tired of seeing characters try to talk to enemies who are whaling at them."

If it were me, the moment I blocked his first shot was the only free one he is getting. He chatted a bit then attacked Naofumi again, in which case I would've deployed all weapons at my arsenal to defeat him, waaaay before the lightning cage was deployed. That's 2x words failed, like I said in my initial post. Blocking while pleading isn't using sheer force.

Reread bold parts.

It's not uncommon in shows to do this, which is why I am so sick of it and cringe when I see it. When someone hits you seriously, beat them and talk later.

For the record, Spear dood attacked Naofumi 7 times before the lighting cage got deployed. That's 7 times words failed. I stated clearly I'd only allow twice.

And I still can't believe Raphtalia hasn't at least dismembered Bitch's arm or outright killed her by now. Fucking Disney shit right there.

[KrayZ33]

For the record, Spear dood attacked Naofumi 7 times before the lighting cage got deployed. That's 7 times words failed. I stated clearly I'd only allow twice.

I count 3(maybe 4 *if* I missed one) attempts, maybe 7 strikes in all since one attempt invovled blocking/a combo but that's not the same thing, as that would be equal to saying peace talks between 2 countries failed 1000 times because 1000 people died in the first battle.

Anyway - he gave up on talking to him as soon as he realised how much Spear has been tricked and how much he is being used by Myne.
After being told by the bird to do exactly that - talk - defend your position, to try to convince the others, this is exactly what he was supposed to do.

If you really want to nitpick at the number of attempts, sure, go ahead, I'll give you that, it is in fact different from the amount you stated. But that's about the only difference from your attempt/scheme to solve this situation. You could say your fuse is just shorter than his.

The situation is rather clear though that this scene played out as I described earlier with this buildup in mind.

Talk -> Attack (but not yet life threatining) -> Talk again -> Attack (Realizing something is going on) -> Talk one last time -> Force and try to clear up the misunderstanding after defeating him.

You can clearly see the change between from "wanting to talk" to "wanting to defeat/beat him"

I've witnessed bar fights that go like this...
Maybe with one less attempt to simply just defend against offensive actions - but basically the same idea. (though Naofumi can't even take offensive actions)
People (in their right might) tend to not hurt someone until they get hurt themselves, or when their patience is running out.
Especially if they know the other person or are trying to ease up the situation due to whatever reasons. (In this case, because what the Bird said earlier)


I think any other reaction than Naofumi's would've been weird after what the Bird told him about the heroes, what Spear said during the initial meeting and the high level difference between these too.
Naofumi got carried by Filo, Princess and Raph in this fight.
It's not like Naofumi just sat their and took the beating either, he was actually trying in earnest to stop Spear as soon as we could see the use of Shield Prison, which is all he can do anyway before getting others involved.

[David75]

Naofumi is not strong enough to pin Spear hero down, because is levelling is capped.
He clearly is at a disadvantage.

[NeoCybercoin]

Well...besides the Rage Shield being more than capable of actually killing Spear. But that's not really something you'd use while claiming your innocence huh.

[David75]

I read the manga quite fast, now that the anime follows it like a storyboard, I understand how slow-paced it is.
My only hope is we get to a point I've been waiting for since ep one, before the end of the season.

[shinta|hikari]

@Krayz - I don't care what you think about what I would've done. I just don't want you misrepresenting what I said. I was pretty clear about what I said I would've done in Naofumi's shoes, but you worded it in a very different manner. Whether you think what I would've done is appropriate or adequate for this show or otherwise is irrelevant to me.

Filo and Raphtalia are part of his arsenal and count when I said all weapons available to him.

[KrayZ33]

I never said anything about what I think you would've done.

I'm saying that he acted according to what you said you would've done.

Your plan is - talk -> if talking doesn't work -> use force -> explain again and show your benevolent side.
That's what Naofumi did. I didn't misinterpret anything because that's what you wrote.

I asked how Naofumi was supposed to act. You came up with something that is very, very, very similar, pretty much identical to what he did.
And I basically said "well, that's what he did".


Don't act as if I twisted words. Either you mean what you say or you don't. I'm breaking it down for you.


If words failed about twice,....

About twice is an estimate, could be thrice, could be once too.

Naofumi talked to Spear a few times, he offered more attempts than what you would offer Spear, so it seems.




....I would've convinced him using sheer force. If you beat him down until he can't do anything anymore, and then properly explain,....


That's what Naofumi did/tried to do too - see lightning cage scene



....and then heal and free them afterwards, they'd at least know you could've killed them but clearly didn't. That'd go against the idea that Naofumi killed the other heroes, making it more likely for anyone, including the Spear dood, to believe him.


That's exactly the same as protecting him from certain death via the beam, they could've protected themselves and leave them to die/get hurt outside, but he didn't. It goes completely against Naofumi killing the heroes. Why would he save the guy he wants to see dead.


So I am saying, any other action than that would be weird, considering what Bigbird told him to do.
As you can see, he action mirror what you said you would do.




So I'm asking again, how was he supposed to act?

Answer so far: "He should've used force sooner" (nothing else, because everything else is the same)
I argue: "He's not there to fight but to reconcile" - since he can't use force himself and has to use others to do his dirty work, he might be more hesitant to do so because he is actually a nice guy.

[shinta|hikari]

I don't care how he was supposed to act. All I said is what I would've done.

[KrayZ33]

Why did you state what you would've done exactly?

Because I asked how he was supposed to act, am I wrong?

Or "Just because"? Who's gonna believe that...
You didn't even realize how similar that situation was when you wrote it down.
What a joke... whatever.

[shinta|hikari]

Because I think Naofumi is dumb and I am smarter than him.

[KrayZ33]

Well, looks like you are not :).
And you tried to answer my question. So you did indeed care about what he was supposed to do.
Your post just now confirms this as well, stop the troll.

And the pointless hate as well... absolutely no fun to discuss shows when it's all about baseless issues/problems such as this.

[shinta|hikari]

If words failed about twice, I would've convinced him using sheer force.

Just quoting myself because you seem to like misrepresenting me and accusing me of lying on a forum lol.

The reason why I said it that way (aside from meaning it, of course) is because I've given up on Naofumi making the optimal and logical decision.

You can think whatever you want of me, just like I think you love defending low quality things just because you like them and generally misunderstand what you like versus what is good.

EDIT:

You threw the first stone, for the record.


Well, looks like you are not :).

And the pointless hate as well... absolutely no fun to discuss shows when it's all about baseless issues/problems such as this.

[KrayZ33]

What are you even talking about man....

I'm not accusing you of lying. I'm accusing you of not standing by your freaking words.

You explained what you would've done.
That is very similar to what Naofumi did.

What's the problem?

When I pointed it out, you got super defensive about it...
I used word for word quotes in the comment above.

If you honestly believe that it is not exactly how that scene played out, you are wrong and should rewatch the episode.
If you honestly think that the only difference between your idea, and his, was not just the delay of using force, you are factually wrong - because you can watch it right now.

He DID talk, he DID fight using full (non-lethal) force, he DID beat him, he DID rescue him.

If you honestly believe I defend this show, you are freaking wrong too.
I started this current's episode talk by saying how fucking bad the animation was and how this show became a light-novel all of a sudden.

But I won't shit on things that aren't wrong and can actually be understood by using common sense, just for the sake of shitting on things so I can talk about how shitty the shit is.
Sorry for not going "full force" (by calling others to beat the dude up) when I'm actually hoping to make up with someone after 1 failed attempt like you would - and think "oh that's the logical thing to do".
Not everyone is as short tempered as you. Doesn't make you "smarter", just an asshole actually.

Could you do it just like you described? Sure.
Could you force it through a bit later? Hell yeah.

That's the difference in thinking we are talking about. The point - where and when exactly - to drop the "mr. nice guy"-act.

[shinta|hikari]

I don't understand how you don't understand.

I explicitly said I would've used words twice, and beat him down by sheer force after that.
Naofumi didn't do that. He deflected 7 attacks before the lightning cage got deployed and got serious.

I would've used Shield Prison and sicced my minions after him right after I deflected the second attack, the charged one that caused my allies' clothes and hair to forcefully flutter backward. <---- This didn't happen in the show.

I did stand by my words.

The problem is you keep trying to misrepresent my words to mean something else.

Like I said, I'm okay if you think I'm an asshole. I believe it is the logical and optimal thing to do. I think it is the smarter thing to do because you minimize risk to yourself and your allies. Negotiation can always be done after you have defeated the other party. In fact, it is usually more favorable for your side to do so (i.e. wars). You are free to think the opposite. In fact, I encourage it.


That's the difference in thinking we are talking about. The point - where and when exactly - to drop the "mr. nice guy"-act.

I was also pretty clear about what I disliked about this. Again, a quote:


I'm so sick and tired of seeing characters try to talk to enemies who are whaling at them.

That did happen in this episode.

[KrayZ33]

I don't understand how you don't understand.

I explicitly said I would've used words twice, and beat him down by sheer force after that.


You explicity said you would've used words ABOUT twice, in my language, that's not "exactly" twice



Naofumi didn't do that. He deflected 7 attacks before the lightning cage got deployed and got serious.


Yes, just like I pointed it out X times by now. He got serious later than you would have



I would've used Shield Prison and sicced my minions after him right after I deflected the second attack, the charged one that caused my allies' clothes and hair to forcefully flutter backward. <---- This didn't happen in the show.


You never said anything about using shield prison. These are not your words. He used shield prison though, to prevent Spear from acting. Not to defeat him - so they can talk. That part is kinda irrelevant, I'll just see it as using "full force"





That did happen in this episode.

Yes, not part of what you wrote before we started the back and forth though.

Here is what you wrote because you somehow ignore what started all this?


If words failed about twice, I would've convinced him using sheer force. If you beat him down until he can't do anything anymore, and then properly explain, and then heal and free them afterwards, they'd at least know you could've killed them but clearly didn't. That'd go against the idea that Naofumi killed the other heroes, making it more likely for anyone, including the Spear dood, to believe him.

And this is *clearly* meant to answer my question about what he was supposed to do.
And this is also *clearly* similar to what he actually did in this episode. The only difference being the number of tries to talk it out.
*ROUGHLY* = ABOUT twice - vs. ~4 times (7 hits)

When I pointed out that this isn't as far off after all, and that it can be boiled down to the amount of pressure you can hold back in before giving up on the "talk strategy" we came to where we are now.
When you say you would've flipped your switch earlier, fine - doesn't make him flip it later wrong and dumb. As mentioned earlier, he can't even use force himself. The fact that you "sic" your companions onto Spear shows how you think about them. That's different from how someone like Naofumi sees them - and he sees them as his children.

I disagree with what you would do, because in my eyes it's *not* the logical thing to do if you are in the situation Naofumi is in. It's basically sounds like a backseat general at work here (just as much as the Orb scene earlier, but this time, it's not even about the different of what was/could've been done, but rather WHEN it was done - since both you and him did in the end do the same thing, that's so pointless because it doesn't even change the outcome). It's ignoring all kind of factors, such as feelings and the urgency of the situation at hand.

You do realize that the very first thing to show that you are not an agressor, is to be not aggressive.
Dropping that in favor of using ultimate force is by nature rather illogical and should be used as a last resort and not as an immediate response.

End of my point.

[shinta|hikari]

You truly misunderstand. I didn't meant it that way. I wasn't trying to say what Naofumi would/should do, as I have given up on him as a character. I apologize if you got confused by that. I only meant to express my thoughts about the best way to approach the situation.

I truly meant that I would've counterattacked with sheer force (this is key, nothing half-assed) after about 2 convincing attempts. Indeed, that is not exactly 2, but 7 is definitely not acceptable. Based on my personality, it could've been one try, to be honest.

I also wouldn't group attacks. Each attack can hurt or kill me, after all.

I'm also not trying to convince you to think my way is correct. I frankly don't care. What I do object to is you saying I didn't stand by my words and imply I changed my stance midway. I have no reason to do that, just like I have no reason to lie.

[Kraco]

I've a feeling if it had been you, Shinta, and not Naofumi, the orbital ion cannon strike would have killed or at least maimed you. This is because patience and perseverance are connected.

[KrayZ33]

You truly misunderstand. I didn't meant it that way. I wasn't trying to say what Naofumi would/should do, as I have given up on him as a character. I apologize if you got confused by that. I only meant to express my thoughts about the best way to approach the situation.

I truly meant that I would've counterattacked with sheer force (this is key, nothing half-assed) after about 2 convincing attempts. Indeed, that is not exactly 2, but 7 is definitely not acceptable. Based on my personality, it could've been one try, to be honest.

I also wouldn't group attacks. Each attack can hurt or kill me, after all.

I'm also not trying to convince you to think my way is correct. I frankly don't care. What I do object to is you saying I didn't stand by my words and imply I changed my stance midway. I have no reason to do that, just like I have no reason to lie.


I see - I'm sorry.

We friends again until next time? :)

[shinta|hikari]

@Kraco - True, but I didn't know an orbital cannon strike would happen, so I can't make a decision factoring that.

Naofumi just got lucky.

@Krayz - I don't think there will be a next time.

[KrayZ33]

@Krayz - I don't think there will be a next time.

I have no freaking idea how to understand that and it scares me. .... just in case I'm locking my doors.

[shinta|hikari]

LOL, sorry, I didn't mean it that way.

I just think I've gotten a good understanding of how you think, making it unlikely for us to spark another thread extender like this.

[MFauli]

I'm away for a couple hours and you crazy cats start brawling each other, SHEESH! 🐧💁

[shinta|hikari]

Sad you didn't get to join in?

[Kraco]

Ep 19


- - -- -


You rarely see a more passive "fight" than this.

At least Naofumi did get the other three to understand their errors.

[MFauli]

It's unbearable to watch this. Not only is the past treatment against Naofumi handled like a casual joke: Why the fuck is Myne standing there as if it's all forgiven now?!

I don't care if there is a 'situation', that doesn't matter. Someone should call her out directly about what she did! At the very least Naofumi should demand that Motayasu throws her out of his team.

Ffs ... it really feels like she'll get away with a slap on the,wrist ...

[shinta|hikari]

Holy shit that episode was utter trash.

[KrayZ33]

I wonder if this episode was bad because the whole scene felt soo long due to it being an anime or if it has the same effect in the manga.

How come no one told the creator that a 5 minute "no...you!"-talk and petty arguments are completely out of place while in combat?
The industry must be full of incompetent human beings.

I'm okay with the fact that not every scene is properly thought out to the last second, but come on... really... come on. They even went through the trouble of adding a scene with the pope mentioning his "downtime on spells", just so they could have this discussion... and then they realised that "this is extremely stupid" and made the pope say that it was foolish to give him so much time - DUH - who would've thought!?

All they had to do was to delay that freaking talk after the fight, they didn't even have to change a lot of words. Just make it clear that he helped them, despite what has happened, due to what Bigbirb told him, and that they must work together because of that.

"Professional Novel writer"

And lol @ sword-dude, who attacked the priest in melee, drained his mana, and jumped back into the pit (which is already stupid) and didn't follow up with additional attacks (which is even more stupid) even though they already saw that they could bypass/break the barrier.


It's unbearable to watch this. Not only is the past treatment against Naofumi handled like a casual joke: Why the fuck is Myne standing there as if it's all forgiven now?!

in my opinion it was pretty clear that Naofumi did not forgive them. I mean, he even said so.

[shinta|hikari]

From my experience, all industries are full of incompetent human beings.

[MFauli]

Episode 20:

What a shit show this anime has turned out to be.

Worst battle ever. Pope standing around, doing nothing while heroes hold chitchat.

And I take personal offense at this shameless ripoff of Berserk's berserker armor, wow ...

Last but certainly not least: yeah, she won't be properly punished ...

[Kraco]

The kingdom got a whole army of new slaves suddenly. They would also empty the church coffers, logically, and take all the gold and silver, no matter what form it might be in. Some of the loot should go to Naofumi for fairness's sake. Royals have always been looking for excuses to steal other organisations' wealth, like happened during the reformation, for example.


Worst battle ever. Pope standing around, doing nothing while heroes hold chitchat.


Actually, he was powering up his spell. It was highly convenient for him that the heroes kept talking, doing nothing else.

[KrayZ33]

I had so many problems with what the heroes did in the beginning of this episode. But not with how the whole thing ended. Heheeee

Mostly, what Naofumi did and what Naofumi did not. Seriously, 6:10 - 12:40 was so unbelievably dumb. I so wish that I had written that scene.. or anyone capable of story writing.
It's infuriating, I don't think I have to explain why but I want to point it out anyway.

WHY the FUCK, do you say you have a plan, your comrades ACCEPT that plan without much resistance and when you are actually about to do it, they come clinging to you, getting hurt and stop you from executing that plan?
They fucking KNEW this was going to happen, it was the PLAN. Say NO - don't do it/you are not allowed to do it, if you disagree you dumb sh**?!
Was the writer thinking this was in any way emotional or something? It was not, it was just DUMB.

That pep talk - or whatever you want to call it - would've been fitting to calm down his maniacal laughter again once he has finished the pope and to prevent him from ravaging/crushing the pope's CORPSE into a bloddy unrecognisable mess. But not before he even got his first attack going.





Pretty cool battle overall when you ignore that move, the music in the beginning was especially nice.

Oh and for god's sake. If you design plate armor, design a helmet too gawd-damnit! :)
The world needs more Fate/Zero-Berserkers.

The shield looked pretty cool though (and the rest of the armor)

[Buffalobiian]

Mostly, what Naofumi did and what Naofumi did not. Seriously, 6:10 - 12:40 was so unbelievably dumb. I so wish that I had written that scene.. or anyone capable of story writing.

My issue is that he got to use the power of the cursed shield without being Berserk. It's not like hateful berserker mode is a side effect of the power, it's the very source of the power along with the dragon core. You can't just glitch it into giving you the power up.

As for the episode itself, I don't remember it taking so damn long in the other versions.



My favourite parts were all scenes involving the Queen Milf of Melromarc. God she's lovely.










Also, this:

https://i.imgur.com/37qQm7O.jpg

[Kraco]

Also, this:


Is she going to eat raw liver and brains? She's such a beast!

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 21

------------------------








I thought this was going to be the final episode and thought "Yep, this is one of those shows that really shouldn't get a sequel", as much as I liked Filo and the Queen. Turns out it's not quite done yet.

Weirdly enough, for all the time invested in showing us the trial, the episode failed to tell us that Myne was ordered to tell the truth, which lead to her being zapped for lying. It's a small point that became obvious, but slave crests don't automatically force truthful speech unless instructed to do so from memory.

[Kraco]

I don't remember how this affair went in the manga, but I feel like it was tolerably successful in the anime. It's an interesting detail Naofumi's reason for sparing those two wasn't mentioned aloud at all. It's also something I prefer because generally speaking I feel like not everything needs to be explained in detail, as if the audience couldn't think at all with their own brains (a common thing in shounen where even attacks and defenses in the middle of a fight need to be explained). That's why in art galleries I don't care at all about what the artist or any expert has said about the paintings/sculptures, apart from the name. I just prefer to interpret them as I like.

Although that being said, it was heavily hinted that Naofumi found it extremely distasteful to have the queen order the execution of her own family members. I'd say, in the bigger picture, assuming those two won't cause any problems in the future, this serves Naofumi better because a relieved/thankful queen is better for him than a dejected/only forcibly cordial one. On the other hand, a person who has gone through much hardship and injustice may either become vengeful and dark-souled or more understanding and sympathetic. I suppose it largely depends on if they had any friends and allies during the difficult period. Naofumi did have some, so he might have avoided the fate of an antihero. Instead he has the mental strength to spare others from suffering if he can help it.



but slave crests don't automatically force truthful speech unless instructed to do so from memory.

I don't even remember so deep details from the early episodes. I also don't remember if Raphatalia or Filo have tried to lie to Naofumi.

[Buffalobiian]

I actually don't think he saw through the queen at all. He might have sensed that she didn't want to kill them, but I doubt he'd have guessed that she'd lay her own life on the table.

I reckon he saved them just because he worked out that killing them both didn't make him feel any better despite his hatred.

[KrayZ33]

The slave crest has a setting that can be checked to make "lie to master" a violation.
You can see that option in episode 2 in the beginning.

Since the NPCs use the same HUD (unless the queen is a player too), they don't have to specifically "order" it by voice. (on top of that, the Queens Status bar indicated that she is permanantely buffed with Armor + Attack up and something else that could be "concentration+" or whatever , I love details like that)
Overall I think it was pretty obvious what was going on though.


I reckon he saved them just because he worked out that killing them both didn't make him feel any better despite his hatred.

exactly


I actually don't think he saw through the queen at all. He might have sensed that she didn't want to kill them, but I doubt he'd have guessed that she'd lay her own life on the table.

If you are referring to what Kraco wrote earlier (and not just pointing it out in general), he was talking about the queen ordering the execution of her own kin, not about the fact that she would've offered her own life for theirs.
I doubt Naofumi knew about the queen's plans too. The fact that a mother has to execute her own child and husband however is already messed up and reason enough for him to act.



Why is the song with english lyrics not on the OST btw....
Getting the "Simple Man"/Metallica/Shinedown vibes here.


Oh and... if they can't be bothered to draw a crowd for 10 seconds with somewhat decent animation... why bother in the first place and not simply do a close up on the 3 heroes
Asshole @ whoever is responsible for the scene from 19:20 to 19:30

10 seconds full of garbage for no reason. I can cope with ugly CGI shortcuts for stuff like that... but not with "that".

[MFauli]

It's bullshit. And here's why:

Even if you rationalize Naofumi forgiving bitch slut, the facts remain: Countless people died because of these two's acts. And bitch slut tried to murder her own sister, the future queen. Everything else she did could be downplayed as 'personal feelings' (the false rape accusation, the manipulation of the heroes, the permanent lies to everyone, etc). But those are crimes that go beyond Naofumi's personal revenge. Imagine Anne Frank surving and deciding to let Hitler live - 6 million dead jews mean she's got no right to decide that. This is the situation at hans here.

That aside, I just fucking hate that ONCE AGAIN the protagonist chooses to be goody good instead of receiving justice. The name changes are probably a way bigger affair for a japanese audience, but to me it's a joke. Bitch slut DESERVED the worst, and by that I don't mean the death panelty, no, I'm talking Goblins here. For whatever reason, the author wrote Bitch slut in a 100% unredeemable manner, and it's not just her actions alone, it's how much she ENJOYED her crimes, too. Seeing such a character get away with only a funny name change is not satisfying at all. We're past Dragon Ball, where Vegeta murdered countless people and then got to join the heroes, no questions asked. This anime presented itself in a serious manner, so I expected a serious resolution to bitch slut's evil deeds. And they let her off the hook.

Reading the above postings, I can see that I'm once again alone with my point of view, but I can live with that. Bitch Slut shoukd have, at the very least, been executed and Naofumi shouldn't have felt bad about her. He's the victim, she's the relentless, cruel criminal. No justice happened in this episode and all the sjws out there once again will feel re-affirmed that false rape accusations shouldn't be punished harshly.

[shinta|hikari]

You're not alone. I wanted all her limbs to be torn off and then the stumps healed by magic. Then goblins. They can eat parts of her while in the throes of carnal pleasure, but a goblin shaman will heal her back up for more fun. Maybe the court mages can also cast status ailment cure spells on her once in a while so she can't escape into insanity. She will birth many goblin babies who will then grow to impregnate her again. The circle of life.

The king should be forced to watch this happen, but no harm should come to him. The guilt alone would probably cause him to kill himself. He will not be allowed to do so.

[Shadow Skill]

I enjoyed this more than I did reading it in the LN.

I thought this would be pretty boring but it went pretty well I thought.

No idea why other viewers are upset.

Maybe my comment about the pacing talking 52+ episodes is coming true.

This is like Up to LN 5 now? And there's like 20 LNs?

At this pacing this can take 5 years to get to LN 20 and by then there will be 10 more LNs in Japan lol.

[Kraco]

Reading the above postings, I can see that I'm once again alone with my point of view, but I can live with that. Bitch Slut shoukd have, at the very least, been executed and Naofumi shouldn't have felt bad about her. He's the victim, she's the relentless, cruel criminal. No justice happened in this episode and all the sjws out there once again will feel re-affirmed that false rape accusations shouldn't be punished harshly.

In fact you didn't read my post properly. I only speculated on why Naofumi did what he did. I never said anything about my opinion on the need for the execution objectively speaking. They of course should have been executed for their crimes driven by pure greed (Malty) and abuse of power driven by irrational hatred and prejudice (the king), and for both of them collaborating with the pope for open rebellion.

However, ask yourself, does any of this need to matter for Naofumi? He's past the point of giving a shit after what he went through. If you had been betrayed and abused by a foreign country for a long time, would you feel the need to seek justice for the country? No, most likely you'd hate the country. You might like some individuals within that weren't scumbags toward you, but that's it. It would be natural to want dead the prime culprits, but if you hadn't turned into a berserk and still had the mental faculties to consider your own benefit for the future, you might as well do exactly what Naofumi did. Does it impair the bigger justice? It does, but it's not Naofumi's problem. This way he undoubtedly got the better deal for himself because the queen and Melty are thankful, plus it seems like the population liked his act of showing mercy as well.

This is kind of like accepting a big money compensation after being wronged by some powerful people, instead of seeking the case till the end in the court of law, where the people received a greater punishment, but you received less compensation. The people rotting in prison won't make your life afterwards any easier, but the bigger money compensation would have.

[David75]

I feel the delivery was better in the manga. But maybe there's a sequel to that...

Naofumi knows every act has consequences. His precog dream probably helped him evaluate the odds and the queens trembling told him he needs to consider a broader picture. It might be Fitoria or even the Queen is responsible for that dream. Fitoria would be a deliberate act, the Queen's could be just a passive ability that activated because of her strong feelings and stress.

[MFauli]

In fact you didn't read my post properly. I only speculated on why Naofumi did what he did. I never said anything about my opinion on the need for the execution objectively speaking. They of course should have been executed for their crimes driven by pure greed (Malty) and abuse of power driven by irrational hatred and prejudice (the king), and for both of them collaborating with the pope for open rebellion.

However, ask yourself, does any of this need to matter for Naofumi? He's past the point of giving a shit after what he went through. If you had been betrayed and abused by a foreign country for a long time, would you feel the need to seek justice for the country? No, most likely you'd hate the country. You might like some individuals within that weren't scumbags toward you, but that's it. It would be natural to want dead the prime culprits, but if you hadn't turned into a berserk and still had the mental faculties to consider your own benefit for the future, you might as well do exactly what Naofumi did. Does it impair the bigger justice? It does, but it's not Naofumi's problem. This way he undoubtedly got the better deal for himself because the queen and Melty are thankful, plus it seems like the population liked his act of showing mercy as well.

This is kind of like accepting a big money compensation after being wronged by some powerful people, instead of seeking the case till the end in the court of law, where the people received a greater punishment, but you received less compensation. The people rotting in prison won't make your life afterwards any easier, but the bigger money compensation would have.

But Naofumi doesn't hate the country, he continues to risk his life as he keeps fighting together with the other heroes. He does it to get home, too, but at no point in this episode he showed hatred towards the country.

I'm also not sure how well-received his act of mercy was, when he went about it in such a mean way, shouting bitch and slut and so gleefully, too. Made him look like a villain there.

You excude everything with 'Naofumi's feelings', but that's the point: he shouldn't have had such feelings. There was no reason to feel bad about these two, and feeling bad for the queen, why? Maybe she should have raised her bitch daughter properly? It's a matriarchy, so maybe she shouldn't have let her husband run rampage? It's fair to empathize to a point, but these two DESERVED punishment. Had a mother stood next to naofumi, crying as she remembers her dead husband/son who died because of Bitch Slut, what then? Then naofumi would have empathized with her, right? But the anime conveniently ignored that side of the medal. It only once should the angry audience shouting at them, but them being angry makes it easier to handwave their feelings aside. Angry audience vs sad queen? Sigh.

Naofumi didn't make a believable decision here imo. It's typical non-consequential mainstream anime writing: can't ever have a hero hand out just punishment, because 'being goooood'.Comes from the same energy as harem heroes never having sex with all the girls clinging to them: gotta be gooooood :/

[KrayZ33]

~implying the death penalty is a just punishment~

har har har....

Naofumi got *his* revenge. That is all that matters to him - as Kraco pointed out, it doesn't matter whether the people of the country have open business with them, he has not.

Naofumi doesn't want to be the *reason* for their execution, it's as simple as that. What's the point in executing them anyway. I think they got off too easily too, but I'd prefer prison time for them over execution any day.

[Kraco]

Naofumi didn't make a believable decision here imo. It's typical non-consequential mainstream anime writing: can't ever have a hero hand out just punishment, because 'being goooood'.Comes from the same energy as harem heroes never having sex with all the girls clinging to them: gotta be gooooood :/

Nah, in my opinion this episode made it quite clear how Naofumi felt about it. He was pondering why he felt uneasy about having them executed, as opposed to stopping it. Those are his feelings. Don't confuse your own feelings with Naofumi's. He was the one being persecuted for no reason of his own, so it was his call. Furthermore, in my opinion he clearly did hate the country, represented by the king, the corrupt nobles, and the even more corrupt church. He just didn't hate all the people, like the villagers out there who were often suffering just much as he was, or the blacksmith. However, he's still stuck on protecting them all as defeating the waves is required for staying alive and possibly getting back home.

Furthermore, only an idiot would want to live for hatred and vengeance alone. He has got Raphtalia and Filo, who love him, so he's much happier trying to forget all the bad things and pushing forward. He knows it, after getting pulled back a couple of times from the cursed shield's darkness by them.

[NeoCybercoin]

If I recall it correctly the Manga did not have the execution scene. The King was frozen by the queen the moment she entered the throne room when he ordered to restrain Naofumi. Myne later got a slave crest to force her to tell the truth. I think she later asks him what their punishment should be and he chose exile and stripping them of everything. Plus changing Myne's name.

For Myne that would be the worse punishment. Losing her status, name, wealth, everything. Plus everyone knows what she did.

There's no telling what would happen to them after they'd be exiled.

[shinta|hikari]

I'm pretty sure Mfauli is right about the reason it ended with such a light punishment. Mainstream anime generally avoids truly cruel protagonists, like Ainz. They are heroes, after all, in this case literally.

Sure, Naofumi had reason to do what he did, but that's because he was written that way. And the reason he was written that way is because of what I said above.

The worse punishment would be goblins.

[Kraco]

I'm pretty sure Mfauli is right about the reason it ended with such a light punishment. Mainstream anime generally avoids truly cruel protagonists, like Ainz. They are heroes, after all, in this case literally.

Sure, Naofumi had reason to do what he did, but that's because he was written that way. And the reason he was written that way is because of what I said above.

The worse punishment would be goblins.

If you use that argument, we might as well stop talking about episodes entirely, apart from technical factors like music, animation, voice acting, etc.

[shinta|hikari]

Not at all. Writing and plot direction is one of the most basic reasons to critique any piece of work. The path the author chose is very safe and generic, and typically absurdly merciful. In other words, it is expected and boring, which is not something praiseworthy for a story. The writing is also quite forceful in taking it in this direction. The punishment doesn't match the crime at all, even according to the queendom's own laws and norms, but in the end, the bad guys are left to roam free.

The fact that almost everyone here thinks the punishment was too light, even those who think it was reasonable for Naofumi to do what he did, supports my point.

EDIT:
Apparently, in the WN and LN(?), it was Naofumi who called for their execution, but the queen pleaded for their lives, which was why he settled on exile and the names. Now that makes a lot more sense.

The manga (https://mangazuki.me/manga/tate-no-yuusha-no-nariagari/tate-no-yuusha-no-nariagari-32/?style=list) also handles this differently.

[Ryllharu]

Do the complainers not get the point of this? Naofumi gets exonerated, and he proves he's a better person than Malty and the King by accepting a lenient punishment despite all he went through. The "alternate" versions in the LN and manga aren't any different. He gets shouty, yells, but accepts the worse punishment of leaving them alive to suffer in ridicule the same way he suffered in scorn.

[shinta|hikari]

It's unjust though. The punishment doesn't match the crime. That's not being a better person. If you are against the death penalty (which clearly Naofumi was), then they should've at least imprisoned them for life.

Leaving them alive and free to suffer ridicule isn't worse than death according to Bitch herself. She wholeheartedly begged Naofumi to save her, after all.

EDIT:
I definitely prefer the manga version. The king and princess couldn't be killed due to political reasons, so the Queen proposes endless torture, which Naofumi, coming from the modern world, couldn't choose. By doing so, she tricks him into choosing a lighter punishment even though he wanted to kill them at first. The queen also comes off as smarter and more in control instead of a sappy mom.

What was the Queen's plan B anyway? Offer her life, the only competent ruler of the queendom, to save the 2 criminals? What's gonna happen to the country once she is dead? Melty is a kid, so she obviously can't rule yet. What the heck was her end game if she did that? Ruin her country, which is already in a precarious situation? If the Queen is also spared, that's basically injustice. The royal family basically abused their power to avoid punishment right in front of all the people.

Add to that there was a good chance Naofumi would just let the execution happen. He didn't sentence them, after all, absolving him of some guilt, and Japan even has the capital punishment. What nonsense.

[MFauli]

Do the complainers not get the point of this? Naofumi gets exonerated, and he proves he's a better person than Malty and the King by accepting a lenient punishment despite all he went through. The "alternate" versions in the LN and manga aren't any different. He gets shouty, yells, but accepts the worse punishment of leaving them alive to suffer in ridicule the same way he suffered in scorn.

Thx for touching on exactly the topic I wanted to talk about. Let me ask those of you who are ok with the 'punishment' they got: Do you think, Naofumi would be a bad/worse person had he *not* prevented their execution? Would he be in any way a lesser hero then? Less moral?

That's my core issue with your 'he proved he's the better person': fuck no, he WAS tge better person from the beginning! He didn't do what Myne accused him of. He beared with everything that was done to him unjustly. He still gave his all to become stronger to fight as a hero. He cleaned up the mess the other heroes left, saving hundreds of lives. He's the ine who brought back together the 4 heroes despite their behavior towards him. And so on.

Naofumi WAS the better person. He didn't need to prove. Neither to us nor the in-anime people who witnessed that Myne and the king had spread lies about him, and the people he helped knew about his good deeds. His status quo was 'better person'. So letting two disgusting criminals die would have not made a dent in his 'better person' armor. You guys really disagree? Talking about 'it would have lead him on a dark path'? Pls ...

[Ryllharu]

Fair enough. He displayed his true quality as a person, in contrast to the lies that had been spread about him since he was accused.

His actions up until this point proved he wasn't the person he was claimed to be. That's why all the citizens of the outskirts respected him more than the other heroes. He acted selflessly the whole time he was overtly acting like an mercenary asshole.

Like, demands money and rewards...spends it all on components for priceless healing potions he just casually gives away.

[KrayZ33]

letting two disgusting criminals die would have not made a dent in his 'better person' armor. You guys really disagree? Talking about 'it would have lead him on a dark path'? Pls ...

Lol... your vision of justice is as twisted as a pretzel.
Give me one reason as to why he should let them die - when they are supposed to be killed for his sake - but he already knows that it won't make him feel better.

He would indeed be a failure of a hero, "less moral" as you put it and not the man his companions know him to be, if he did not (try to) prevent it.

Capital punishment is garbage tier in the great book of justice.

The great people of our existence have always told us to not seek revenge. Seeking justice it is indeed the feat of a hero. Seeking revenge is not - and seeking revenge is not seeking justice.


If we must:
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - even the jews of the past had a better justice system than what you are asking for. If he is to judge let them suffer pain to a similar degree and not above it.
Ryll pointed it out wonderfully


He gets shouty, yells, but accepts the worse punishment of leaving them alive to suffer in ridicule the same way he suffered in scorn.

[MFauli]

Irl I'm against the death penalty. We're not discussing rl. In their world, the death penalty is a thing. Murdering people happens all the time, it's not a rare occurrence (speaking as a European).

It's not an eye for an eye situation at all. There's a point that someone committed so much evil that he/she is irredeemable. See Hitler. Even in today's society you'd have to guard him, because people would demand his execution. Should Andrej Breivik ever get out of Swedish prison, he probably won't live for long - killing 87 young people does that.

Bitch Slut did worse. He action caused hundreds of deaths. This isn't about Naofumi's feelings, it's about a society's justice, and that world's justice involves the death penalty as a proper means of punishment. If Melty wasn't a sexy young woman, but a disgusting fat, old smelly guy, or just a full-on orc, you wouldn't even think about letting him stay alive, be honest.

You really have the audacity to call Naofumi less moral had he not stopped a 100% just punishment? Then your morals are seriously scewed up in the context of this anime.

And let me add: Youre even igoring that Bitch Slut hasn't changed at all! She never apologized, never showed any growth. The name change and loss of title and wealth surely are humiliating, but guess what: She'll continue to scheme deadly crimes. Isn't it great that Naofumi let her live!!1 This is Batman-levels of dumb, 'i'll never kill the Joker ...oops, he broke out of Arkham and killed another 100 civilians, oh snap'.

[Kraco]

An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth - even the jews of the past had a better justice system than what you are asking for. If he is to judge let them suffer pain to a similar degree and not above it.

It's not only about Naofumi, though. Malty and the king abused power, acted contrary to the benefit of the nation, ignored the real ruler's (the queen) instructions and intentions, and colluded with the usurper pope. They were guilty of high treason. I doubt there were many absolute monarchies that wouldn't have executed people for high treason. It's just that the ordinary citizens in the capital experienced none of the results of their wrongdoings, they only knew about Naofumi and how Naofumi had been persecuted.

[shinta|hikari]

Give me one reason as to why he should let them die - when they are supposed to be killed for his sake - but he already knows that it won't make him feel better.


The law..?

[KrayZ33]

It's not only about Naofumi, though. Malty and the king abused power, acted contrary to the benefit of the nation, ignored the real ruler's (the queen) instructions and intentions, and colluded with the usurper pope. They were guilty of high treason. I doubt there were many absolute monarchies that wouldn't have executed people for high treason. It's just that the ordinary citizens in the capital experienced none of the results of their wrongdoings, they only knew about Naofumi and how Naofumi had been persecuted.


If it's the law, then Naofumi wouldn't have been able to be the judge and decide their sentence.
And the queen could've done whatever as she is the judge of the country.

The very fact that she gave Naofumi the option to decide means that the whole thing was about him, and no one else or about upholding the laws of the country.


The law..?

How is that a reason for someone in Naofumis situation?
The death penalty is used to give the victim closure, he doesn't get it because he's actually a decent human being, so what's the point of that law for him?

[shinta|hikari]

LOL. Whatever man.

[KrayZ33]

It's not Naofumi's job to uphold the law, it's the Queen's job to ignore Naofumi pleading
Naofumi is the dude who says "man, I don't need them to get that punishment, I'm fine"
The Justice System has to punish them according to what society asks of it (Unless of course Naofumi is the sole claimant of course (no claimant, no judge)). If it's high treason and that's reason enough for the death penalty, then Naofumi couldn't do jack.


Seriously, that's such a shitty reason for Naofumi to not ask the queen to change her judgement

"sorry man, you have to die, I don't really want it either, even though I'm the victim here - but that's the law dude! Shit happens - theoretically, I'm allowed to pardon you since I'm not getting any kicks or anything out of your decapitation, but I won't - because I care about "the laws."

The only normal choice from him as a caring human being would've been to ask the queen to stop the execution and see where it goes from there.

[shinta|hikari]

Okay....

[KrayZ33]

No point in saying "okay" when you disagree.

Explain why "the law" has any meaning for Naofumi in that situation.
If you can't explain, why write it in the first place?


Give me one reason as to why he should let them die

"Because the law demands it!

So? And Naofumi would care for that? Really?

It might be the reason why they should've been executed anyway, but not why Naofumi should've let it happen and not try to stop it.

[shinta|hikari]

I can explain, I just don't want or see the need to.

[KrayZ33]

Then you really shouldn't have seen the need to comment in this thread either.
When someone is actually asking you to explain because he doesn't understand - you might as well answer/explain or not participate in the discussion in the first place.

[shinta|hikari]

Okay....

[KrayZ33]

dude....

I did expect more than just trolling. If you want to look like you don't care, fine I guess. But we both know you freaking care too.
I actually wanted to hear your reasoning, I understood that you disliked the whole situation, because the queens "plan" was utterly stupid and didn't make sense. (and I agree)

But I still don't see the connection for Naofumi there when he (basically) asks for the execution to stop when he realised that he doesn't get his kick out of it.

[shinta|hikari]

I'm not trolling. I just replied so you know I read your post. I can use a different word if you'd like. If you don't care whether I read your post or not, then I won't reply.

[MFauli]

So, Kray, answer this pls: Are the civilians supposed to be happy about Naofumi's decision? I mean those who lost loved ones because of bitch slut and the king?

[KrayZ33]

So, Kray, answer this pls: Are the civilians supposed to be happy about Naofumi's decision? I mean those who lost loved ones because of bitch slut and the king?

No - or rather, I don't know what they are supposed to think. It's hard for me to pin down whether they are actually at fault for anything like that. I didn't see (or don't remember) the king ordering anything like that or being directly responsible for the death of civilians. Same with Slut

Isn't the king basically a hero for them because he managed to summon 4 heroes instead of just one, wouldn't that mean more people have survived?

Anyway - that aside.
You made several good points in your last comment, but here is my explanation


Irl I'm against the death penalty. We're not discussing rl. In their world, the death penalty is a thing. Murdering people happens all the time, it's not a rare occurrence (speaking as a European).

Yes, but ethics changed and now we believe the highest good is happiness and life. We don't live in the medieval age anymore, we know about the value of life and thus we (and Naofumi too, since he is from "our" world) should act with that in mind.



It's not an eye for an eye situation at all. There's a point that someone committed so much evil that he/she is irredeemable. See Hitler. Even in today's society you'd have to guard him, because people would demand his execution. Should Andrej Breivik ever get out of Swedish prison, he probably won't live for long - killing 87 young people does that.

Bitch Slut did worse. He action caused hundreds of deaths. This isn't about Naofumi's feelings, it's about a society's justice, and that world's justice involves the death penalty as a proper means of punishment. If Melty wasn't a sexy young woman, but a disgusting fat, old smelly guy, or just a full-on orc, you wouldn't even think about letting him stay alive, be honest.

You really have the audacity to call Naofumi less moral had he not stopped a 100% just punishment? Then your morals are seriously scewed up in the context of this anime.

When you ask about moral and ethics, I will use today's standard and not those of 1000 years ago.

So no, my morals are alright by today's standard I think. I know that "eye for an eye" doesn't literally imply that the culprit has to suffer the same crime (anymore). I know that "Justice" doesn't mean you have to punish murder with death so that he "gets what he deserves".
Justice means you punish the severest crime, with the severest punishment which our moral principles would allow us to impose.

What does that mean in this situation? By allowing Trash and Slut to live, he basically tells us that he values life over everything else, so high even, that he wouldn't even take it from those who took it from others. That's pretty much the moral code of all the european countries, I'd say. I believe the death penalty doesn't exist in any of the EU-Countries.

So yes, Naofumi would indeed be less moral if he allowed the execution, instead of trying to stop it.
At the very least, we can be certain that Naofumi's compassion is absolute.



And let me add: Youre even igoring that Bitch Slut hasn't changed at all! She never apologized, never showed any growth. The name change and loss of title and wealth surely are humiliating, but guess what: She'll continue to scheme deadly crimes. Isn't it great that Naofumi let her live!!1 This is Batman-levels of dumb, 'i'll never kill the Joker ...oops, he broke out of Arkham and killed another 100 civilians, oh snap'.

That is more or less part of the whole issue. Not killing them is one thing, not going into prison for a really long time is another, that I don't agree with either. After all, I believe in punishment too.
I have no idea however whether that is actually the case... or if Naofumi had that in mind when he stopped the execution.

However, what you see as "justice" is rather barbaric and medieval. You'd certainly fit in in that world, but since you are living in a civilized world now, I'd expect something else
You actually seek *revenge*, it's not about justice, it's a "personal matter".

Moral and ethic are difficult topics, in this situation it's basically "iustitia" vs. "caritas"

[MFauli]

You're basically killing the debate when you argue from current day rl morals - we're both against the death penalty, the end.

I think you're being too imperialistic/western-centric, though. This is a world where slavery is absolutely fine. That 'noble' queen allows it If we were to take the realities of this isekai into consideration, I'm sure you'd come to a different answer.

Ryaku shite: irl Naofumi would probably get lynched by the people

[KrayZ33]

This is a world where slavery is absolutely fine. That 'noble' queen allows it If we were to take the realities of this isekai into consideration, I'm sure you'd come to a different answer.

The thing is, Naofumi is a "current day"-person - so his morality is different from the world he is currently in. I don't even know what you mean when you say "to take the realities of this isekai into consideration".

You don't go to Iran and say "oh, stoning people is fine here - guess I'll do it too - after all, when in Rome, do as the Romans do...". Or what do you mean by that?

[MFauli]

The thing is, Naofumi is a "current day"-person - so his morality is different from the world he is currently in. I don't even know what you mean when you say "to take the realities of this isekai into consideration".

You don't go to Iran and say "oh, stoning people is fine here - guess I'll play along"

You don't go to Iran and demand that a stoning is cancelled without getting stoned yourself.

[KrayZ33]

You don't go to Iran and demand that a stoning is cancelled without getting stoned yourself.

"May I introduce you to Jesus our god and savior?"
Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone.

The 4 heroes are saints, now more than ever. They literally have the power to change the people and aren't generic soldiers that have no fellowship

And that *still* doesn't explain why you think it wouldn't put a dent on his "hero status" or why it wouldn't make him any "less moral" when he starts throwing stones all of a sudden (to use that example).
Naofumi is a person of the modern world - he has an advanced moral code that is a thousand years ahead. The people seek peace, safety and happiness just like we are today. That's not different - unlike the modern world however, they know even less than us about how to achieve it.

I mean, it's not like Naofumi doesn't care when people die around him - he just realised that he also cares when he thought he wouldn't care (i.e. when people he hates are getting "it").

edit: I wish that whole scene would've been as dramatic as you just pointed it out (I'm refering to your example about getting targeted for a good old stoning yourself, if you try to stop it).
Because that would truely turn his small perfomance of compassion into a fully fledged heroic deed.
But, alas, he merely tricked the population into thinking they get what they want.

[MFauli]

Because Naofumi himself is the victim - that makes all the difference.

I said I'm against the death penalty. That is true and I really want our justice system to do all it can to uphold that. However, if I had a gf or daughter who got raped or murdered by some asshole ... i would kill him without a single nano second of regret. Modern law is void when you're personally involved.

That's why even from the modern perspective he'd have been moral to let them get executed: because he's their victim. As I said, from the perspective of this isekai, there's not even a debate that execution would have been just. But because Naofumi is personally involved with these scummy people, he had every moral legitimation to kill them. That's my opinion anyway.

Had he not been personally involved, you'd be right (from a modern times perspective). I absolutely hate idiots who call for some criminals severe punishment when they're not even personally involved. "What, he gets only 7 years of prison?!" - as if they had any idea how terrible 7 years in a prison are (that's a random example of how many people irl react to news).

And again, bitch slut and king didn't only attack Naofumi. They have countless innocents' blood on their hands. Letting these 2 go is ridiculous.

[Buffalobiian]

I said I'm against the death penalty. That is true and I really want our justice system to do all it can to uphold that. However, if I had a gf or daughter who got raped or murdered by some asshole ... i would kill him without a single nano second of regret. Modern law is void when you're personally involved.


Woah. So you're against the death penalty for rapists of others' daughters but you'll kill the one who raped yours?

That's fucked up. What is the law even to you?

[MFauli]

Woah. So you're against the death penalty for rapists of others' daughters but you'll kill the one who raped yours?

That's fucked up. What is the law even to you?

Yes, what's fucked up here? It's called taking personal responsibility. I expect the government to prevent murder from happen. But I can't expect people not to feel differently on an individual basis. We shouldn't cheer on 'Punisher' methods, but it makes absolute sense from the pov of the involved people.

[Buffalobiian]

Yes, what's fucked up here?

Mainly in that you believe "Modern law is void when you're personally involved" but that you're also somehow "against the death penalty".. until something bad happens to you personally - then whatever personal justice goes.

People are totally allowed and expected to "feel differently on an individual basis" - that's why some are against the death penalty, and some are for. In that case you're for the death penalty because you believe that's what should happen as just punishment.

[MFauli]

Mainly in that you believe "Modern law is void when you're personally involved" but that you're also somehow "against the death penalty".. until something bad happens to you personally - then whatever personal justice goes.

People are totally allowed and expected to "feel differently on an individual basis" - that's why some are against the death penalty, and some are for. In that case you're for the death penalty because you believe that's what should happen as just punishment.

That's why we have the law and courts.

[shinta|hikari]

I sorta understand what Mfauli is saying. As a part of society, he understands that the death penalty is not the right way to go, but if he himself is harmed, he also understands that his emotions will get the better of his rationality and he will want to get revenge, not just justice.

I am pro death penalty but not in the way they have implemented it all over the world. I will only support it if they overhaul the qualifications, process, and cost.

[Buffalobiian]

So explain to me how you are against the death penalty despite wanting to see certain crimes punishable by death MFauli.

[MFauli]

So explain to me how you are against the death penalty despite wanting to see certain crimes punishable by death MFauli.

You're mixing up different viewpoints. That's the issue here.

From modern day society pov: against death penalty
From modern day personally involved pov: for death penalty
From isekai society pov: for death penalty
From isekai personally involved pov: for death penalty

That's the 4 different states. I don't want any crimes punishable by death.

[Buffalobiian]

You're mixing up different viewpoints. That's the issue here.

From modern day society pov: against death penalty
From modern day personally involved pov: for death penalty
From isekai society pov: for death penalty
From isekai personally involved pov: for death penalty

That's the 4 different states. I don't want any crimes punishable by death.

The two bold lines are incompatible with each other - either you don't or you do wish to see certain crimes punished.

If you are against the death penalty (in any time-line), then you are against the killing of criminals even if they rape your daughter.

[Kraco]

The two bold lines are incompatible with each other - either you don't or you do wish to see certain crimes punished.

If you are against the death penalty (in any time-line), then you are against the killing of criminals even if they rape your daughter.

I'm against the death penalty in practice over here. If I was isekaied to some fantasy world, I wouldn't be against it (unless it was used witlessly). However, I still do think some rare criminals would be better off executed (like terrorists and mass murderers), but for practical purposes I understand that's not going to happen. Death penalties are very rare in the current Europe, so suddenly introducing them might not fly very well. That's why I say in practice; it's the political reality.

Executing falsely accused people is one of the biggest problems of death penalties. Or at least it was. I feel like it's even more disgusting than police officers accidently shooting someone dead. These days it could be dealt with much better with the modern crime and crime scene investigation techniques and technologies. That's how some American death row men were set free before they had their meeting with the headsman.

[MFauli]

The two bold lines are incompatible with each other - either you don't or you do wish to see certain crimes punished.

If you are against the death penalty (in any time-line), then you are against the killing of criminals even if they rape your daughter.

It's not incompatible.

The latter means 'in the context of the existing law system'. The former bolded line refers to my personal actions: I would kill that criminal myself. Ofc, seeing him/her executed by law enforcement would be a nice surprise.

[Buffalobiian]

So you believe that some criminals should die for their crimes, but the law shouldn't enforce it?

[shinta|hikari]

Only criminals who victimized him because emotions would trump his morals, similar to crimes of passion.

[neflight86]

late 2 cents warning:

I'm glad for how this played out. Queen didn't have to kill her own family, and Naofumi essentially got to choose their punishment, which was perfect closure for his tribulations. They may have essentially wanted to, but they didn't kill him, so the eye-for-an-eye thing doesn't really apply a death sentence anyway, and Naofumi realized that he wouldn't be placated by it any more than his name being cleared already has improved his position.

I won't say it was a net positive thing, because I can't calculate it, but Naofumi's efforts in evading people, establishing his own funding (merchant work), and generally opposing the nobility (and other heroes) led to a many people's lives being improved, so it could be argued some good came from the initial injustice he suffered, accidentally or not. You could argue that that ever so slightly tipped the scales in favor of mercy, if you were so inclined.

Funny, looking at penalties, a wealthy monarch has so much more to lose than a peasant. If you're poor, your life is the only thing you have to lose, and that is of debatable value, depending on who you ask, but money and power are pretty concrete constructs that, when stripped away, make for a compelling punishment. King gets to work for a living now, princess has been called a pathological liar by her mother, the queen, in public, and renounced by her spear hero. Positively speaking, maybe the remainder of their lives can be spent making their world a better place where they can, instead of providing nourishment to grass in a graveyard. Without their titles, neither are overtly dangerous or incapable of contributing to society.

At this point, I actually pity them for being blinded by hatred more than I am upset by their deeds.

[MFauli]

So you believe that some criminals should die for their crimes, but the law shouldn't enforce it?

What shinta said. Actually, what I said, too.

[Buffalobiian]

What shinta said. Actually, what I said, too.

Shinta did suggest something on the previous page, but I didn't know if it reflected your thoughts or not. (especially because it suggested that you're saying you'll kill out of impulsiveness or emotional irrationality even though you know that it goes beyond justice).

So in other words, you don't believe the criminal should die, but you predict that in your rage you would kill him, even though you know (right now) that it is unjust and undeserved. I'm not sure it's entirely emotional for you at this point really. You go as far as mentioning "seeing him/her executed by law enforcement would be a nice surprise."

It's as if I'm saying "I don't believe in robbery, but if I see someone flaunting a million bucks down the road, I'm totally mugging him."

[MFauli]

Shinta did suggest something on the previous page, but I didn't know if it reflected your thoughts or not. (especially because it suggested that you're saying you'll kill out of impulsiveness or emotional irrationality even though you know that it goes beyond justice).

So in other words, you don't believe the criminal should die, but you predict that in your rage you would kill him, even though you know (right now) that it is unjust and undeserved. I'm not sure it's entirely emotional for you at this point really. You go as far as mentioning "seeing him/her executed by law enforcement would be a nice surprise."

It's as if I'm saying "I don't believe in robbery, but if I see someone flaunting a million bucks down the road, I'm totally mugging him."

Kinda. When I'm personally involved, my perception of what is just changes. Only for my individual will it then be just to kill the criminal. I'd still expect the law system to prevent me from killing someone, though, because objectively killing the criminal would be unjust.

[Buffalobiian]

Kinda. When I'm personally involved, my perception of what is just changes. Only for my individual will it then be just to kill the criminal.

Heh. So it's a double standard, really.


I'd still expect the law system to prevent me from killing someone, though, because objectively killing the criminal would be unjust.

Except the law wouldn't prevent you from killing them.

1) It'd deter you with consequences, but you say you'd kill them anyway so that's not working.
2) Law enforcement would attempt to prevent you if they knew, by force or even killing you prior.

If you really wanted to kill someone though, you'd just end up doing it. It wouldn't prevent you.

All that'd happen afterwards is that you get apprehended (either voluntarily or involuntarily), and the family/friends of the dead dude can decide on whether to uphold social justice or personal justice like you just enacted.

[MFauli]

It absolutely is a double standard. Although an uncontrollable, emotional ome, and not one I consciously choose to follow.

[MFauli]

Episode 22


Let's not just let her run around freely, no, also give her a job inside the royal castle!

Has Melty not witnessed her, then WHAT?

This anime has turned complete trash since last week :/

[KrayZ33]

That episode was pretty cool, Naofumi got a lot of new stuff, new mechanics to explore and I'm smelling new Party Members too.

[MFauli]

That episode was pretty cool, Naofumi got a lot of new stuff, new mechanics to explore and I'm smelling new Party Members too.

Must be nice being able to watch anime with your brain shut off :( *jealous*

[KrayZ33]

It's really easy to ignore a minor thing like that which has had absolutely no impact on what has happened in this episode.

If you get triggered by that, there is not a single show or movie you could possibly enjoy. Whether it's anime or not.

I'm for example not going into John Wick 3 and start to complain about the nonsensical plot and other bullshit such as the "walk into the desert John!"-part and say "this movie is unenjoyable and trash/shit!". The movie is still a great action-movie and the series has the best combat scenes and choreographies the movie world has to offer right now.

So why would you go that way and ruin your own fun.

[MFauli]

How is it minor?

THE villain of the show works in the royal kitchen and would have successfully poisoned Naofumi if it wasn't for coincidence.


Seriously ...

[KrayZ33]

How is it minor?

THE villain of the show works in the royal kitchen and would have successfully poisoned Naofumi if it wasn't for coincidence.


Seriously ...

And how did that scene, which had absolutely no impact on this episode and could've been completely left out, "ruin" the other 23 minutes.
Like I said... "Walk into the desert John! You might meet him, you might not!"

That scene with her trying to poison food was so bad, I couldn't help but ignore it's insignificance, like everyone does for similar situations in every show/movie ever made.
Never said it ain't shit - but it's one shitty part about an episode that was otherwise interesting (for me) to watch.


To sum up the goods part:

It had class-level ups
teasing an XP dungeon/island which might unlock new skills
Cute Filo moments
Funny/weird Queen moments
Raph protecting Naofumi's honor
Information about how the weapons work
New gear and more stats for Naofumi
New means of traveling/crafting
New companions (probably)

[MFauli]

And how did that scene, which had absolutely no impact on this episode

That's what makes it worse! it had no impact, but it *could have* had crucial impact!

That's just ... super bad, and I can't take the other 23 minutes seriously. Not that the out-of-place reaction of the Queen to fitoria helped, ugh ...

[KrayZ33]

I find their love towards the ultimate birb charming.
The great companion birb Filo is what keeps this show alive for me - just seeing her trotting through town in the beginning of this episode was glorious.

And as I mentioned before, if you can't judge the other 23 minutes "fairly" because of one scene, you'll probably never enjoy a movie or show in your life.
The rest was certainly not trash, whether you could enjoy them even without what has happened during the party is another question though.

[Buffalobiian]

The show's been kinda bad for a while now.

What keeps me entertained every now and again would be:
-Raphtalia moments (mostly earlier in the series)
-Filo moments.
-Occasionally the queen.

[neflight86]

Shield hero is certainly in maintenance mode now, without me questioning if I'll finish the last few episodes, but it certainly could have been more...

[Kraco]

How is it minor?

THE villain of the show works in the royal kitchen and would have successfully poisoned Naofumi if it wasn't for coincidence.


Seriously ...

Does she work in the kitchen? Would she even have any skills needed there? I doubt she could even wash dishes successfully. I reckon she had the drunken soldier start trouble to cause a diversion, sneaked into the kitchen when she thought nobody was paying attention, and then tried to poison the food. However, Melty does keep an eye on nasty bitches sneaking around, so the plot was foiled.

It's too bad the queen is so soft she allows Bitch to remain within the castle grounds.

[KrayZ33]

Does she work in the kitchen? Would she even have any skills needed there? I doubt she could even wash dishes successfully. I reckon she had the drunken soldier start trouble to cause a diversion, sneaked into the kitchen when she thought nobody was paying attention, and then tried to poison the food. However, Melty does keep an eye on nasty bitches sneaking around, so the plot was foiled.

It's too bad the queen is so soft she allows Bitch to remain within the castle grounds.


I thought so too, but she was dressed as one of the staff... which I kinda made me think: "well, since everyone in the kingdom most likely knows her, trying to change clothes for just that is kinda pointless".

That scene was stupid indeed, I want to believe that she'll get punished for that, but I'm pretty sure nothing happened.
I looked into the manga a bit, overall, the whole thing has been resolved in a much better way there.
There was no real reason to change it, I wonder why they did it.

[MFauli]

.
There was no real reason to change it, I wonder why they did it.

Crunchyroll: "Waaaat, no, you can't do that. We're sjws and this outrages us! Change it so the girl doesn't get punished to harshly. She's a girl after all, #metoo, fuckers!"

Maybe not crunchyroll, but someone in the distributiom chain 🤦*♀️

[KrayZ33]

nah, I don't think that's the reason, in my opinion - the way this has been handled - is actually even more fodder for the SJWs.

"The merciful hero spares the women after she begged and pleaded for him to save her by wiggling her tits against the guillotine"

[Shadow Skill]

Nothing was changed. I believe they are following the Light Novels and not the Manga.

Everything happened as it has in the Light Novel.

That particular scene sets up later on scenes. I know some of you think certain scenes are pointless.

I can't spoil... but... these little scenes are helping flesh out who she really is.

[MFauli]

"who she really is"

What, is she gonna have some tragic past? Cry me a river.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

[Kraco]

Episode 23

- - - - -



You have to wonder why the super alcohol fruits had been left there in a bowl, as if they were snacks, if they were in fact only meant to be diluted in a considerable amought of water, not eaten plain.

Twintails suit Filo pretty well.

[Shadow Skill]

"who she really is"

What, is she gonna have some tragic past? Cry me a river.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

The Light Novels do a better job of fleshing this arc out.

Anime is on time constraints.

All I will say is there is more evil to her and when I say evil like evil incarnate.

[David75]

Enough with the spoilers please...

Regarding Bitch, the manga was better at exploiting the idea... but it's true that they might have faced criticism in anime...

Island arc, back to adventure. And Raphtalia is getting better by the day :o

[Buffalobiian]

Yeah, Pony Tail > Twin Tails. Also, boobs.

[MFauli]

@buff: If you eit my postings, pls make clear where what belongs. The 'ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME' is a new sentence and my feedback to this week's episode.

To elaborate: Now Bitch gets to be member of the hero group again! This is such grade S bullshit. It really feels like watching the Pokemon anime now, no consequences, just happy-go-lucky developments. :/

[Kraco]

@buff: If you eit my postings, pls make clear where what belongs. The 'ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME' is a new sentence and my feedback to this week's episode.

Actually, you are not referring to this weeks episode but the previous week's. According to the forum rules, if you are the first to refer to the newest episode of the week, you must indicate it in your post. This rule was written for the purpose of making sure nobody gets spoiled by accident if they hadn't noticed a new episode is out already. Since you had nothing in your post to mark it, it means you were referring to the old episode. That's how it is. And you actually do it all the time.

[MFauli]

And you actually do it all the time.

Yes, because I'm an edgy anarchist who doesn't support silly rules 💁

I made the comment the day of the new episode, come on. And I didn't spoil anything.

[Kraco]

I only watch a few series, but I barely remember their airing days. However, the threads often see new posts throughout the week.

And I wasn't accusing you of spoiling. But how hard can it be, huh? Nobody has posted any links for years anymore, so that's hardly the issue. It's just a word and a two-digit number, or just the number.

[David75]

Gotwoot is rules first. Live with it ;)

[NeoCybercoin]

Well Bitch...or rather Slut ( as her adventure name ) was never barred from the Hero's party.

[KrayZ33]

Well Bitch...or rather Slut ( as her adventure name ) was never barred from the Hero's party.

I too thought it was pretty obvious that she will remain with the hero, otherwise they wouldn't have had the need to turn her adventurer name into something else.
This this isn't really "news" to me.

other than that, another episode that I liked, but that XP farming island is OP - they got like 30 levels in just 2 days or something?

And I'm not into the loli business, but filo looks a helluva lot cuter with twintails.. beautiful even.

[shinta|hikari]

That moment when a random internet forum's rules are stricter than a monarchy's.

[MFauli]

That moment when a random internet forum's rules are stricter than a monarchy's.

Can't even laugh about it.

[Kraco]

Episode 24


The sword, bow, and spear heroes are a total joke. Their world is pretty unlucky to have only acquired a single decent one. The invading world seems far more fortunate with the scythe dude, the jewel mage, and the gloomy lady. It all would feel a bit more realistic if at least one of the other heroes had seen the light after everything that happened, even if they all initially decided to go along with the king's insane policy for their own immediate benefit. However, now they just look like NPCs incapable of learning from their mistakes. It's strange all three are like that.

Another strange thing is that nobody attacked the jewel mage. She looked like quite a pure mage, so she shouldn't have been super hard to defeat as long as Naofumi had dealt with her first attack.

[DarthEnderX]

Okay, so I got bored one day and decided to watch this show because it's popular on Crunchyroll and the thread for it here is huge.

Watched the entire thing over a few day and...why the fuck are you guys talking about this so much? I'm not seeing anything special or particularly interesting about this series.

[MFauli]

Okay, so I got bored one day and decided to watch this show because it's popular on Crunchyroll and the thread for it here is huge.

Watched the entire thing over a few day and...why the fuck are you guys talking about this so much? I'm not seeing anything special or particularly interesting about this series.

It's an isekai, basically 💁🙈

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah but, like, this thread has half as many replies as Attack on Titan, which is a phenomenon. With, like, a 3rd of the episodes. Wtf have you people been talking about?

[shinta|hikari]

Because fake rape.

[DarthEnderX]

Anyway, a few of the thoughts I had while watching.

1. Not being able to wield any weapon but a shield doesn't seem like a huge limitation in a world that's shows to have both offensive magic, and martial arts. Why the hell hasn't he specced into wizard or monk already?

2. How the fuck does the class upgrade system work? I waited forever for them to finally get class upgrades and to find out what their new classes were, and then everyone was like, "we weren't able to get the upgrades we wanted". Okay, fine, so what upgrades DID you get? What fucking classes are you now?

3. Buy more slaves guy! The first one worked out so well!

4. I'm getting REALLY sick and fucking tired of characters telling the hero "I'll explain everything to you." and then explaining fucking nothing. Like when the queen says she's gonna tell him why the King hates the Shield Hero, and then does explain it AT ALL. Or just in this most recent episode where Scythe guy is like "I'll explain to you why you have to die." And then doesn't tell them jack shit.

5. Okay, so I get wanting to make your protagonist merciful and sparing the villains from execution. But his replacement punishment is so fucking stupid. Embarrassing names? That's your step down from being executed?! How about exile. Or at least imprisonment! Whatever your more merciful punishment is, it should at least be able to prevent them from continuing to commit crimes against you. As evidenced by the fact that what-her-face IMMEDIATELY TRIES TO KILL YOU AGAIN TWO EPISODES LATER!!

6. I realize Isekai shows are often also harem shows, but it's bothersome that his harem is all lolis.


Because fake rape.Of course.

[shinta|hikari]

Why is it "bothersome" that his harem is all lolis, which it isn't because Raphtalia is adult sized?

Did you mean problematic?

[DarthEnderX]

7. It started out only the Spear Hero was an idiot. But ever since Naofumi cleared his name, the other two suddenly got way stupider.


Why is it "bothersome" that his harem is all lolis, which it isn't because Raphtalia is adult sized?

Did you mean problematic?I mean "nothing here for me".

And Raph is still like a 10-year-old girl. Just in a magically older body. It's the reverse of the "actually 1000-years-old" trope, but is arguably the creepier of the two.

[Kraco]

And Raph is still like a 10-year-old girl. Just in a magically older body. It's the reverse of the "actually 1000-years-old" trope, but is arguably the creepier of the two.

She is an adult. She's not human. It's been explained her kind grows up as they level up. Humans take a particularly long time to grow up, but it doesn't mean all the other creatures need to do the same. Her body is young adult and her behavior is young adult. In fact she behaves more maturely than Naofumi much of the time (which doesn't take a miracle with Naofumi being a semi-edgelord, but anyway).

It's not wholly relevant, but if humans in the future colonise Mars, a 10 years old Martian would be around 18 on Earth. How would you deal with that?

[DarthEnderX]

A person on mars though doesn't suddenly go from being a little girl, to being a young adult instantly(also pretty sure humans on Mars would continue to use the Earth calendar :p).

Yeah, she physically ages instantly, because magic. But did she also mentally age instantly? Or is that just the way a little kid that's suffered the kind of horrifying trauma that she has acts?

Personally, I'd be uncomfortable lusting after someone that was a little girl last week because some magic nonsense is giving me the green light.

It doesn't help that she's his slave. I realize she willingly requested to become his slave again, and the anime tries to pass that off as sweet, but in reality that would be a huge red flag that she's suffering from some serious mental issues.


MFauli actually mentioned earlier in the thread about what a Black person would think about that scene, and I agree with him.

"Well, I was freed from my slave master, but they were actually pretty nice to me. So as a symbolic gesture, I'd like you to put my shackles back on and give me a few lashes for old time's sake."

[Kraco]

A person on mars though doesn't suddenly go from being a little girl, to being a young adult instantly.

When it happens instantly, shouldn't it remove any shackles of logic? I only mentioned Mars because looking at numbers alone doesn't mean anything. It's possible Raph doesn't get any more mature than this before starting to suffer from old age (we don't even know how long her kind lives, maybe it's only a few decades?).


Personally, I'd be uncomfortable lusting after someone that was a little girl last week because some magic nonsense is giving me the green light.

Then you share the same opinion with Naofumi himself who still considers her a kid and doesn't feel any lust toward her. This causes much annoyance to Raphtalia herself as she would like to get closer to him.


It doesn't help that she's his slave. I realize she willingly requested to become his slave again, and the anime tries to pass that off as sweet, but in reality that would be a huge red flag that she's suffering from some serious mental issues.

I don't quite understand the Japanese obsession with slaves, so I don't have much to say about that. It's like the Japanese feel they didn't yet get their full share of slave ownership during their occupation of Korea and parts of China. Half of isekai series have people, usually women, willingly becoming slaves or at least having no objections whatsoever. It's quite disturbing. However, at the same time it means the whole slavery thing in most isekai (including this one), can't bear any objective evaluation whatsoever.

[MFauli]

I think it's less about slavery and more about having a pseudo-reasonable excuse for submissive behavior. You know, how women in Japanese porn cry and stuff. Submission (and often humiliation) are popular fetishes, and slavery allows for a somewhat sound explanation of submissive behavior - it'd feel totally out of place if Raphtalia just came out of nowhere and *chose* to obey someone else (although this anime absolutely didn't hold up quality-wise to actually need such explanation ...).

An example for how featuring submissiveness comes off like when you don't have a proper explanation is Konosuba's Darkness: it can only be comedy.

Personally, I don't like the insertion of sexual fetishes into the main plot, it jyst makes it all feel cheap. And that's big part of why no fantasy anime of the past 10 years has come close to the quality of Record of Lodoss War.

[David75]

Because Raphtalia for me... And the manga was enjoyable.

Edit: seems I answered a message that's gone... about why so many messages about a bland anime...

[DarthEnderX]

Edit: seems I answered a message that's gone... about why so many messages about a bland anime...It's not gone. It's just on the previous page. :p

[Buffalobiian]

Personally, I'd be uncomfortable lusting after someone that was a little girl last week because some magic nonsense is giving me the green light.


https://youtu.be/moSFlvxnbgk?t=59

@DEX: I read the manga after a few of the earlier episodes. It's quite a bit better than the anime. I can't comment on the novel version. But that's why I can still watch.

Also: Filo.

[shinta|hikari]

I don't understand you guys. Loli harem is best harem. They are 2D characters.

[David75]

It's not gone. It's just on the previous page. :p
I was too lazy to go check and feared I had to acknowledge Alzheimer is striking :p

[MFauli]

Finale
--------


So, did they kiss?


Anyway, glad it's over.
"Let's continue the fight another day" - why? One side was clearly disadvantagous, why not kill them NOW?!

Also making light of suicide. But hey, 'funny' :/

And finally: returning to the real world and showing real growth? Lulz! Naofumi was never a total loser neet outcast, it makes no sense for him to give the real workd.

Ine of the worst cases of 'wasted potential'. Started out good, then turned into Boruto.

[neflight86]

I thought the soundtrack pulled double duty today, and really enhanced the mood both during the battle's climax and the 'ever after' montage.

Fair series. I'm surprised at where we are not, story wise, since the entire first few episodes made it seem his entire heroic journey would center on clearing his name... which he did, but then the story continued...

[shinta|hikari]

A pile of wasted potential. Aka, coal. And vegans.

[DarthEnderX]

I was wondering why boat girl was getting so much screentime.

[Kraco]

Naofumi and Raphtalia should just get married.


So, did they kiss?


They didn't. Just a hug.

[KrayZ33]

In my opinion these last few episode left the show in a *much* better light than it actually deserved.

I enjoyed the whole leveling-island arc and the last fight was pleasant to look at.

[Shadow Skill]

With this I am hoping both seasons are 24-25 episodes because there is definitely a lot of content in the Light Novels to cover up to LN 10 or even 12 depending on if they rush certain key parts.

I know the next arc is definitely the next 2-3 Light Novels. That next arc is definitely worth 24-25 episodes.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2019-09-01/the-rising-of-the-shield-hero-anime-gets-2-more-seasons/.150588

[Kraco]

More Rapthalia is always welcome.

[NeoCybercoin]

This is welcome news.

[MFauli]

Why :/

... ugh

[DarthEnderX]

Oh boy, this mediocre series people only care about because of the racoon girl is back.

[Kraco]

Oh boy, this mediocre series people only care about because of the racoon girl is back.

I was quite undecided about watching this new season, but maybe I should have a look now that you mentioned the raccoon girl.

[Buffalobiian]

Everybody gushing over Racoon girl.

Filo is the real MVP. That cart goes nowhere without Filo.

[MFauli]

Episode Season 2-1:

- So false-rape-accusation bitch really just gets to walk around freely, huh? I guess this anime truly is like real life: Women can make rape accusations against men, ruining their life, and when it turns out to have been a lie, there's little to none consequences. Still, this is super disgusting.

- "Why don't you try become his slave?" followed by "Make my your slave!". Anime already canceled, LOL

- The worst offense, however, is what Darth touches upon: Dear fucking god was this episode generic and boring. And the first episode is usually trying to be an exciting banger. Nothing here. Season 1 had the "controversial" premise and a cool ability that's perfect for an underdog figthting an overwhelming force. What does season 2 offer? His shield abilities are a known quantity by now and the premise is "there's a new danger, pls go defeat it". Okay. At this point, I see myself dropping this anime after episode 3. Not even the animation is anything to boast about.

Edit: And since you're all in horny-mode, I don't want to feel left out: Obviously, the queen is the hottest girl in this anime. Isn't she single now? Go for that milf, Naofumi.

[Ryllharu]

Edit: And since you're all in horny-mode, I don't want to feel left out: Obviously, the queen is the hottest girl in this anime. Isn't she single now? Go for that milf, Naofumi.
Yes, the Queen is the hottest in the entire franchise. The whole thing is still trash, but this is truth.

[Kraco]

The princess lost her station as a princess and also her name. She must be called "bitch" in public. That's actually probably a worse punishment than sitting in a prison for a couple of years and then being as if nothing ever happened.

This isn't indeed anymore as exciting as it used to be. That's what happens to many a series before long, unless the author is exceptionally skilled. I was only joking about watching this for Raphtalia's sake. We have seen all of her tricks already, as well. I doubt I'll be able to keep watching this for long.

[neflight86]

Sometime between when this aired and now, I must have reached critical mass with fantasy isekai; I am surprised by how little I enjoyed this, and my expectations were low. Along with the reasons stated above (arbitrary side-quest, the slave scene (lol), mediocre animation for a premiere), I also actively dislike Raisha(sp?). Did I miss an ova or something? I so vaguely remember her existence, and she gets so much screen time as the newest girl, and my favorite archetype: the self-loathing perpetual apologizer! That's the real reason Bow hero kicked you out; you're annoying! I do not look forward to her inevitable arc where she 'proves everybody wrong' and becomes... ugh... desirable...

Without the main hook of the initial betrayal, there is almost nothing here. The storytelling is so juvenile and in service of overcompensating for Naofumi at this point. The story reparations have been getting paid out since, what, episode 10 of the first season? The other heroes are unreliable. Everyone respects the shield hero. Essentially no room for any interpretation in any of the scenes or story beats- just exposition and emotionally ineffective resolve as our heroes seek out their next world ending catastrophe. The fights were as flat and unchoreographed as I feared they would be, and tension is absent, capped off with a fairly lazy cliffhanger ending. Raise of hands: How many of us have entertained the idea Naofumi will be killing this woman because she asked nicely? Anyone? How can I possibly wait till next week?

I did, however appreciate the small flashes to characters like Melty whom I forgot existed. Roll call doesn't hurt after a hiatus. A good dunking is fun once in a while , too.

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, I didn't remember any of the people in Naofumi's town, or the new girl.


For the record, I don't give a shit about racoon girl. I just know she's one of the reason's the show is popular.

[shinta|hikari]

This story was popular because of the fake rape accusation and subsequent vengeance. Once that is over, it is shit.

[KrayZ33]

Yeah, I didn't remember any of the people in Naofumi's town, or the new girl.


For the record, I don't give a shit about racoon girl. I just know she's one of the reason's the show is popular.

How dare you, she's clearly the bestest of all the goodest girls, you have to like and care about her.
(I'm serious)

Didn't watch the episode yet, but I'll probably enjoy it more than you guys.
It's certainly going to be much more entertaining for me to watch than season 500 of Sword Art or some other shite. I mean, people stay around and watch "Genjitsu Shugi Yuusha no Oukoku Saikenki" or "Slime", so how bad can it be/get :P.
But who knows, usually the animation will carry a show like that (doesn't have to be "good", just decent), but who knows how far they went down with the budget.

[David75]

Bad animation, 1 chapter per scene made a mess of the episode and then the slave scene was even worse than in the manga where we had the full background.

Was bored to death watching it.

[Kraco]

I mean, people stay around and watch "Genjitsu Shugi Yuusha no Oukoku Saikenki" or "Slime", so how bad can it be/get :P.

When a series gets to the nation (or just city) building stage, it's easier for the author to come up with new story arcs that are not hampered by stale characters or power levels. However, if you just have the usual adventure/fights with the usual cast, there's only so much you can do to keep things interesting, especially if the whole setting of the series was initially based on a single idea like in this series. Even as an edgelord story this is very tame or half-assed, however you want to put it.

[MFauli]

The difference to SAO is that SAO is indeed still worth watching for animation and music alone, and I hate SAO a lot at this point (well, I hate all anime where all the girls desire only one guy's cock).

If I had to say something positive about this first episode: Thes scene where birb rescued the girl by kicking those bat monsters into oblivion. That felt nice, looked good, and Filo had some real presence there, an aura of "you're save if I'm around". I liked that.

[Ryllharu]

This story was popular because of the fake rape accusation and subsequent vengeance. Once that is over, it is shit.

100% this. The author had one conceit, used it up with decent enough arc, and obviously had no ideas after that. Not a case of "blew through a story without proper planning and needed to pad with filler while they figured it out again" like with Bleach or even self-admitted by the author and artist in the manga The Breaker New Waves, but legitimately had no idea where to go with the story after the revenge plot was complete.

The main character arcs are all complete. There's nowhere to go with it unless they force some more bullshit in, which is what they're doing.

[KrayZ33]

I don't know, everything seems pretty normal to me.

1 arc (season 1) finished and another arc starts (season 2).
First episode clearly looked like a re-introduction to the series again. The kind of episode you have in just about every other show.

Filo is still one of the best monster-person characters there is. Did you see that fat fluffy birb move and fight? It's just awesome and cute.
https://i.imgur.com/gFpmk4V.png

lets fucking gooo!

I mean, even the Shield Hero knew it's awesome to look at because that tornado he ordered did absolutely nothing!

[MFauli]

Season 2 episode 2:

Dropped it. I can't even pretend to care about anything that happened in this episode.

[Kraco]

I decided to drop it as well, even without watching the second ep. I've read what's out of the manga, and that's enough for me. I just can't make myself care enough to see it again in an anime form.

[neflight86]

Still not great, and the plan is unspectacular, but the courtesan character won me over by the end of the episode, despite starting off on the worst possible foot. Seriously, that war table scene was like a concentrated extract of boring, as well with her introduction as a "sorry, I lied to everyone about who I was- I'm here to help fight my creator..." Like the author didn't know how popular she would be so shifted the story to make her harem-eligible.

My greatest hope for this show is that the turtle arc is over by episode after next and we can move on to the next spaghetti thrown against the wall that will hopefully stick.

If one true positive could come from this episode, it is the remainder that I have many shows from this season to try out still; I can't watch this and not give some of the other shows a chance, or I am part of the "problem" with anime.

[DarthEnderX]

I completely cracked up watching this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI1GhinyFzg

"Oh right...there were TWO elephants in the room!"

[David75]

No Raphtalia, no show.
Wake me up when she's back.

[Buffalobiian]

Turns out I missed a beach episode.

[Buffalobiian]

I hadn't been watching S2, but I got board. The turtle arc was pretty boring and I skipped most of it. The post teleportation stuff was fun, mainly because we got to see chibi Raphtalia again.

[David75]

Raphtalia also becomes a hero and an ally to Naofumi... Except if by becoming the Katana hero the missions she has in Kizuna's world compete with the ones Naofumi has. My understanding is that heroes from Kizuna's world are enemies of the world where Naofumi became a hero. It was very clear when Kizuna told her world people who Naofumi is, and we've been clearly told that l'Arc was an enemy.

So Raphtalia is back to her strong form, and even stronger with her new hero powers. She lost her slave crest and potentially will have to deal with imposed goals that make her an enemy to Naofumi's party.

I have to say that I prefer Raphtalia near adulthood than chibi. Miko apparel has a strong fanservice appeal, but I like her in any outfit, even naked actually, haha. I'm just checking wether the FBI is at the door or not, haha...

I think I stopped the manga at the turtle arc too.
I have to say that I have better expectation with Raphtalia coming back stronger.

[DarthEnderX]

What episode did the turtle arc end? I'll pick it up after that.

[Buffalobiian]

What episode did the turtle arc end? I'll pick it up after that.

Episode 6 is the final episode of that arc. Episode 5 and 6 introduces a villain that is responsible for what happens from episode 7 onwards so I'd at least skim through those to know why a guy called Kyo exists.

Otherwise Ep7 is the new arc.

[Buffalobiian]

S2E11

-----------------





Filo got a onesie from a costume that originally looked like herself lol.

I also don't get Therese's hair. It changes colour randomly.

[David75]

Quality control was poor. L'arc felt very different from scene to scene when walking.
Also, the whole ep felt like walking all of your team in a game when only the one you are currently moving is fully animated and the others only have very basic moves and animation.

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 12.

----------------------








Pretty shit final ep. Kyo was a villain for the sake of having a villain and his motives meant jack shit. Why did he even want to trash his new world create artificial waves anyway? Doesn't matter - he's dead.

The show became interesting again when it threw the characters into the unknown and forced some more world building and (re)development since they were stripped of their power.

Other loopholes include if the other world's weapon holders were supposed to be summoned to fight waves, why wasn't Raphtalia sent? And the mirror guy, regardless of whether he's locked up in a lab.

If the animation is accurate, Raphtalia kept her sword (which should mean she's never to be disarmed ever - because that's not supposed to happen right?) (Also, then why was the mirror guy disarmed?), the Raph-chan mascot is still alive, and Filo got her big bird form back. I quite liked her PJ look though. PJ Filo kicking ass was cool.

I don't know what to make of the other girl. She's supposed to be a good Chi user, and so far that's mean she gets to fight gravity spells.

This show has its moments and cute characters that you want to save from suffering (wonder if Raphtalia gets her slave crest back), but it's still not a good show.

[DarthEnderX]

Pretty shit final ep. Kyo was a villain for the sake of having a villain and his motives meant jack shit. Why did he even want to trash his new world create artificial waves anyway?Because he was just some shitty incel.

[Buffalobiian]

Because he was just some shitty incel.
Yeah I still don't get that.

[DarthEnderX]

S3 E01

---

This is back too.

Don't like that Bitch is in the intro. Ain't we done with her yet?

[Buffalobiian]

The queen is as MILF as ever.

[MFauli]

Does this anime even have any meaningful story at this point?

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 03

-----------------




Does this anime even have any meaningful story at this point?

Yeah, I don't know aye.

They went to buy more slaves, but the plot is that they needed to expand their core characters so they got some demihumans.

Then they did some stupid shit like leave a village with children only. Tiger kid was supposed to be strong be he did nothing against bandits, and the King is supposed to be some fallen hero but his personality makes no sense - and now he's a familly member of White Tigers?

Then every now and again we get a wave to fight against.

The story is weird. Filo just keeps it happy.

[DarthEnderX]

Tiger kid was supposed to be strong be he did nothing against banditsRight?!

Like, maybe resetting his level makes him useless till he gets his levels back up again or something?

[Buffalobiian]

The reset happened after the invasion.

[Buffalobiian]

S03E04

------------------------















"Well this is all depressing as fuck" is what I thought, then Filo held a concert and I'm all smiles. I forgot that Spear had a crush on Filo as well back in the day. Bitch's lies are so bad though. How many points does she have in Charisma to charm all these people?

[DarthEnderX]

Spear Hero took a weird turn there...

[DarthEnderX]

10

---

The Malty shit is SO dumb...and yet...it's hard not to side with Bow Hero. "I want to free the child slaves. Shield Hero sure has a lot of child slaves."

Yes. Yes he does, doesn't he.

[DarthEnderX]

11

---

People having powers in the real world kinda defeats the point of an iseki.