Is Yu Yu Hakusho the most overhyped anime of all times?

[MFauli]

[Some light spoilers for Yu Yu Hakusho in case you care]

So, I needed to talk about this. If you´re a rabid fanboy of Yu Yu Hakusho, please try and let me hear you out.

Hunter X Hunter is my favorite shounen (it´s really seinen, but whatever)-series ever. I love it and I cried many times during the 2011-version, all those emotions, omg.

With Togashi being a mean slob (I don´t care if he´s sick: Tell your assistants how the story goes and have them draw, sigh!), I finally got around to watch Yu Yu Hakusho. I had high expectations, because whenever you enter certain discussions, people will claim that Yu Yu Hakusho is easily better than Hunter X Hunter. I´ve seen many agressive YYH-fans attacking those that thought differently.

So I started watching.
And I kept watching.
And I kept watching until the Dark Tournament that many claimed was the best part of the series.
And I kept watching.

And it SUCKS.

:/

Sorry if this offens anyone, but Im at episode 72 currently and watchin this serious has been extremely tiring. As a HXH-fan, I´ll finish it because it´s obvious how the roots for HXH are in this anime. However, it is not good. It´s really not.

Whereas HXH is exciting from episode 1 and quickly enters the hunter exam that´s just one super exciting moment after another (ffs, I kinda want to rewatch it, now that I´m writing about it ...), YYH starts out incredibly slow. The first, say, 15 episodes are a complete waste of time. It´s just boring to watch these bland characters. Everyone is wearing those simple retro school outfits, there´s no variety, they´re just dressed like normal pupils from that time. Compare that to HXH, where every character boasts charisma and features his very individual design.

Then you have battles. Omg the battles. Let´s focus on the Dark Tournament here, which is said to be the series´ highlight: How are any of those fights exciting?! There are NO rules regarding how powerful a character is. There are no clever concepts, no smart abilities either. It´s just a combination of shounen hero-willpower and out-of-nowhere specialattacks. And there´s never an even fight. It´s always "oh no, he´s stronger than me!" - next scene: "Ha, now I´m stronger than you!" - next scene: "Damn, he´s even stronger now!" , and so on. In HXH, you have both a proper ruleset for basic power such as speed and strenght AND you have an abundance of clever abilities that all have their own rules and limitations. When watching a battle in HXH, you never know who will win, but no matter the outcome, it never feels cheap. In YYH, you know that the heroes will always win and it doesn´t matter how strong the opponent is: shounen hero-willpower trumps everything!!1

I don´t want to call this a truly bad anime, for one because it´s visibly and older series, for another because it isn´t really bad, it´s just ... when you claim it to be BETTER than HXH, it becomes laughable, entirely ridiculous.

So that´s it. Am I wrong? If so, why? Or do you agree that HXH is objectively better? I honestly can´t see it any other way. Calling YYH the better series reeks of blind nostalgia imo.

[shinta|hikari]

HxH is objectively better. This was at most a testing ground and diving board for better ideas from the author.

That said, I loved this when I was kid. That's they key word. This is a kid's show. HxH is not.

[Buffalobiian]

I too similarly tried YYH a few years back and dropped it after 10 or so episodes because it didn't catch.

[neflight86]

I would advise you to present your findings to the "certain discussions" you mentioned and let us know what defenses or arguments they present, because you are going to find a largely sympathetic crowd here.

[MFauli]

Cant really tell you specific places, since over the years I´ve seen the sentiment in various online forums. What comes to mind is NeoGAF.com and MAL dicussions.

Just now I searched a thread and somebody calls HXH overrated, then somebody else "defends" HXH by saying "HXH starts slow, but give it a couple of episodes", like, WTF?! The first 3 episodes of HXH contain more excitement and adventure than the first 30 episodes of YYH.

If fellow gotwoot members agree that HXH is objectively better, then I guess I´m happy to find out that I´m (on that matter) sane and not crazy. Just read another posting in another forum calling the finale of the Dark Tournament "awesome". No, it wasn´t. It was Yuusuke and Toguro standing in front of each other and doing shounen-power ups one after the other, not tactics, not strategy, no rules.

[Ryllharu]

It's called nostalgia. The problem with anime fans in general is burnout.

The shows when you first started watching are "the greatest," you have more tolerance for flaws, and you enjoyed it all because it was fresh. The problem with a lot of anime fans is over time, they lose interest. The later stuff becomes "derivative," "shitty," "ripoff," "poor-man's [fill in blank]," and so on.

Older anime fans are the most jaded fanbase in existence. There's some real modern gems, but you'd never know it talking to anime fans in their 30s or 40s, or those who have made a job out of it. They seem to only enjoy the meta-fanbase shows out there these days.

Specifically, regarding shows like HxH and FMA, you have fans who watched the older version of a series that was rebooted and improved, but they are either infested with nostalgia, or burned out to the point that they won't even try it.

Don't get too wound up about it. It's just older or former anime fans being how they get.

[Abdula]

Yay. A reason to sign in. First off, wow Ryll. Reading your post just made me feel bad. At first I was excited because you guys were discussing Yu Yu but damn.

Okay, I am/was a huge Yu Yu Hakusho fan, still remember all the characters, all their powers, the villains, the plots etc. That said, I watched the show when it was airing and I loved it but I never thought it was good. In all the years since then I have never even considered watching it again and I would not recommend it to anyone. It is one of many many things that you just had to have been a kid in the 90's to enjoy. It is like Power Rangers or VR Troopers or Ninja Turtles or GI Joe or Terry Brooks' Shannara books. I still can't believe they made a tv show based on that, or Dragonlance or any number of other things where you had to have been young and impressionable when you started in order to enjoy this. I still cringe every time I hear the opening of Friends because I can't believe I ever watched that and don't get me started on the damn Transformers franchise. Anyway not going to go off on a tangent about things that were horrible yet entertaining as a child, that people really should just get over. I mean Goosebumps, really???

So yes Mfauli, in this instance you are not crazy. There is something wrong with those Yu Yu Hakusho fans. The series was meh, about as cut and dry as it gets. The damn games were better. As for HxH, never watched a single episode of either series so can't really say. Read the manga up until that whole chimera ant thing which just took forever to get through and once it was done I simply could not get back into it. So I don't really think too much of HxH either.

[MFauli]

Thx for that posting, Abdula. And now: WATCH HXH!!1 :P

No, but seriously, the anime-version of HXH elevates the story several leagues above what you read in the manga-version. Animations, music, voice-actors, it´s one of those very rare cases where everything comes together. I read parts of the manga, too (beginning and then everything after the anime-ending), I like the manga, too. But the anime is a masterpiece, deserving it´s place next to shows like Death Note and Steins;Gate.

Anyway, yeah, I can totally see how YYH was kinda fun when you were a kid ANd were watching it as it was airing. I´´m not sure I would enjoy the Dragon Ball-anime now as much as I did back then, proof being Super, which I follow for nostalgia and curiosity, but wouldn´t ever call it "great".

[Abdula]

Already started on the anime. Watched the first 7 episodes last night once I remembered it was on Netflix, as I was only rereading Deadhouse Gates anyway.

I purposely did not mention Dragonball because of all the things you had to have been a child to enjoy Dragonball is first tier, right up there with Captain Planet. I watched DBZ, could not get through more than a few episodes of GT or Kai and never even bothered with Super. If you like DBZ and want something for nostalgia then the abridged series Team Four Star does is as good as it gets.

DBZ is yet another series where the games are so much better, if only for the pacing.

[MFauli]

Hm, I wouldn´t say DB is the same tier of "have to had been a kid", because it does two things right: 1.) It features lots of unique, well developed characters, and 2.) it has lots of comedy, which makes it more timeless. Also, it has the benefit of "being first".

Speaking of Captain Planet ... is it watchable these days? xD I always planned to rewatch it, because I remember this series getting rather interesting, when the fire ring-boy went rogue and left the team, trapped in some terrifiying future. :>

[Death BOO Z]

wow, an anime thread I can join? cool.

read both mangas, watched YYH (dual audio rips, which had their own problems), watched old HxH.
I really can't see how someone can compare them.

there are two (maybe three) decent plot elements in YYH, that's all. just three elements i can look back and say 'boy, that was cool'. I can recount more great moments in the first HxH saga.
if anything, YYH is similar to bleach (if you didn't know it already), from the plotline, the dragging nature, even some story beats (remember the Ichigo's hair?) and mostly because both of them are landmarks in visual appeal of shonen shows to female audiences.

I guess some people can say YYH is 'better' because it's more grounded in it's own world and doesn't invent more and more concepts. but that's entierly true, they still had the weird video games arc (oh, there's another great part there, make it four good bits, although this one was replicated by toriko). they still rushed the final arc and lost steam after the dark tournament.
the fights were the usual shonen fest, can't hold it against the show, that's just the genre.

I'm going to side with the popular opinion of gotwoot, and say that people who think YYH is better than HxH are delusional from nostalgia, or trying to pick a fight and flame an argument.

[Ryllharu]

How would you compare it to a contemporary, like Flame of Recca?

Manga to manga and anime to anime, of course.

[shinta|hikari]

I prefer Recca because of Fuuko('s boobs).

[DarthEnderX]

Specifically, regarding shows like HxH and FMA, you have fans who watched the older version of a series that was rebooted and improved, but they are either infested with nostalgia, or burned out to the point that they won't even try it.I still think the first part of the old FMA is better than the same material in the new one. Brotherhood really rushes through the part that was already covered in the original series. And there's a lot of really important stuff there that doesn't deserve to be hurried through.

Hughs death is one of the most important things to happen in that series, and in Brotherhood it doesn't even feel like a huge deal because you barely even get to know that character before he dies.

[Ryllharu]

You have to watch both to be honest. Brotherhood assumes you have seen the first and deliberately rushes through the arcs that were accurately covered by the first anime, or skips them entirely.

[Abdula]

Hm, I wouldn´t say DB is the same tier of "have to had been a kid", because it does two things right: 1.) It features lots of unique, well developed characters, and 2.) it has lots of comedy, which makes it more timeless. Also, it has the benefit of "being first".


I feel like that is kind of a stretch. DBZ had lots of characters but few of them were actually well developed. As for its comedic value and timelessness the same can be said of Popeye the sailor man.

Don't know how serious you are about the Captain Planet thing because it is just like Super Friends. Whether it is watchable is based on how nostalgic you are and your tolerance for bad visuals because it is not pretty.


wow, an anime thread I can join? cool.

if anything, YYH is similar to bleach (if you didn't know it already), from the plotline, the dragging nature, even some story beats (remember the Ichigo's hair?) and mostly because both of them are landmarks in visual appeal of shonen shows to female audiences.


Yeah I know the feeling.

I didn't make the comparison before but now that you have I absolutely agree with you that Bleach is very much like YYH. Both hinted at possible hidden depth that never materialized.

HXH is several times better, I've always viewed it as a combination of Black Cat and One Piece, which happen to be two of my favorites.

[DarthEnderX]

You have to watch both to be honest. Brotherhood assumes you have seen the first and deliberately rushes through the arcs that were accurately covered by the first anime, or skips them entirely.I agree, but for that reason I don't consider Brotherhood to be the inherently superior series.

[MFauli]

Interesting. I only saw Brotherhood, because my friend just told me to watch that. I don´t feel like going back NOW, but maybe if I ever decide to rewatch the whole thing, it´s something to keep in mind.

status report: at YYH episode 83. God, this is really dragging currently. The whole "territory" thing. bleh. I´d rather rewatch HXH :/

[Death BOO Z]

as for flame of recca compared to YYH, i think it's just a question of which flavor of 'tournament shonen' you prefer:
ninja energy blasts or demon energy blasts.
Token evil teammate or Token female and token kid.
evil father or evil mother and brother.
Recca is shorter and makes less of a mess of the world. while YYH is a bit larger in terms of the world around us.
YYH has the aweful territory (fullbring) arc, but it also has some great moments which recca doesn't have.

I prefer Recca because i value the overall story conclusion which i felt made better sense than YYH's 'twist', but I did like YYH characters better and i do appreciate the courage in subverting the expectations in the demon tournament.

both lose to HxH, of course.
but if you must watch Flame of recca, you might as well watch MAR, which was much more interesting in it's setting and had a great vibe, and maybe Mixim 12, but I never got to finish that one.

[MFauli]

at episode 87. phew, this is so hard to watch. The tournament at least had the benefit of ... being a tournament. But the fight against Sensui right is sooo boring. I don´t care one bit about it.

But I´m almost done now.

[MFauli]

See, it´s people like these that caused me to make this thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1345454

Cant understand these.

[Ryllharu]

Uh, why are you bothered by the idiots at GAF?

From my view, objectively better by orders of magnitude: Battle Angel Alita's ZOAT. Shaman King...all of it.
(edit: the manga of SK, obviously)

Which is the best is all subjective. Do many later ones draw from YYH's? Yes. Does that mean the earlier ones are the best? Nope.

Stop worrying about it.

[Death BOO Z]

never knew someone invented a time machine that can watch all the way back to the nineties...

[MFauli]

Finished. phew. If only the entire anime had been as laid-back as the final episode. 5/10 and I´m being a bit generous. Really close to defining the word "average".

Imagine Dragon Ball, but make it less non-sensical, as well as stripping away all the unique desins.

What´s most incredible is that this is from the same author as HXH, which is one my top5 anime of all times. It really feels as if Togashi looked back at YYH and said "alright, let´s do this crap right this time!" and proceeded to make HXH, which shares many obvious concepts with YYH, but none of its weaknesses.

[Abdula]

You sir, are a trooper. There was a point in time where I used to finish any series I started no matter how bad it was regardless of the format. Books, anime and manga, tv shows, movies, whatever. Then Naruto came along and I realized life is too short to spend that much time on nonsense.

But thanks anyway, if not for this thread I would never have bothered going back to HxH

[MFauli]

Well, if I dislike a show after 3 episodes, I have no problem dropping it. But when I´m already 70 episodes in (because people claimed the Dark Tournament was sooo great - it wasnt - at all), I don´t want to cancel it that far in. Still, I´m really glad it´s over -_-

[shinta|hikari]

Or you have a lot of free time.

[MFauli]

I´ve got a lot time, but I have lots of anime waiting on my plan-to-watch list that I´d rather watched. Again, when I spent 70+ episodes watching something, I´ll go all the way.

It also was a special case here, because HXH is one my absolute favorite anime, so I felt like I had to watch YYH, just to see if it´s really that bad all the way to the end. It really is amazing how Togashi created two such completely different series in terms of quality.

[Death BOO Z]

You sir, are a trooper. There was a point in time where I used to finish any series I started no matter how bad it was regardless of the format. Books, anime and manga, tv shows, movies, whatever. Then Naruto came along and I realized life is too short to spend that much time on nonsense.

I think the peak of my weekend was that I started an episode of a show with my girlfriend, and I said "I'm not watching another minute of this shit" after four scenes.
this is personal growth.

[DarthEnderX]

Almost as if in response to this thread:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DHEr87uwgE

[kmkze04]

I think the most accurate comparison for me so far in this thread is that YYH is more a teen show than HXH. If you went back and watched YYH (like I did), it's sort of that regular old teen loner story who is actually a secret badass with mild logic most middle schoolers could make sense of. Also, objectively speaking, the ending episodes were all super rushed like the producers knew it was time to wrap up because they ran out of material to stretch.

[MFauli]

Lol, the stuff that guy in the video says borders on being sheer lies. All this praise for those generic characters, the generic story and the lack of logic.

Oh well.

[Death BOO Z]

The video does have some valid points, the shifts in animation style are interesting, there is a lot of tune and hue atmosphere, and the dynamic between yusukes mom, Kuwabaras sister and the evil suit guy wast the most interesting part of the black tournament.

but that's part of the problem, I was much more interested in the side stories than in the big plot.