Alderamin on the Sky

[Kraco]

http://i.imgur.com/eCBUlt5.jpg

"The Katvarna Empire is at war with the neighboring Republic of Kioka. In the Katvarna Empire, the lazy, woman-admiring Ikuta hates war, but due to certain circumstances, he grudgingly takes the High Grade Military Officer Exam. No one would have expected that this 17-year-old young man would eventually become a soldier called a great commander by others. Ikuta survives this world engulfed in war with his superior intellect." -ANN


Genres: drama, fantasy
Links: AniDB (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=11679) | ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=17755) | Official (http://alderamin.net/)



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I decided to have a look at this after Shinta's praise, and I wasn't disappointed. I immediately thought about the Legend of the Legendary Heroes when watching the episode. The characters aren't exactly similar, but there's the lazy but obviously highly competent dude and the swordswoman from a noble house who's keeping him in check. Fortunately their relationship seemed to be more mellow. This show also benefits from the main character only being selectively lazy as he finds within himself plenty of energy for flirting with girls. As welcome as that aspect was, just as splendid was the moment when he did what the others never could have done and made the haughty princess shut up.

This episode only left me with positive impressions. Although for fairness's sake it's pretty funny how the sailors didn't furl the sails when the ship was hit by the bad weather. It's like they wanted to sink.

Production valued seemed quite standard, but got the job done so far. There wasn't any action yet, so it's hard to judge for now. I'll keep watching for sure.

[David75]

I also thought it was passable for a first ep, and that is great praise compared to the pile of poop we are getting this season.
I do not expect much let's hope it remains entertaining.

[neflight86]

1790

"In the "military history fantasy" series, the Katvarna Empire is at war with the neighboring Republic of Kioka. In the Katvarna Empire, the lazy, woman-admiring Ikuta hates war, but due to certain circumstances, he grudgingly takes the High Grade Military Officer Exam. No one would have expected that this 17-year-old young man would eventually become a soldier called a great commander by others. Ikuta survives this world engulfed in war with his superior intellect."

from anidb

Episode 1 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=829195)

genres: adventure, political, military, fantasy

____________________________

A pretty strong cast carried this one for me (for the first episode, at least). The 'lazy genius' trope is in full effect, but there is enough else going on that the show hasn't yet begun revolve around a boring power fantasy. A good pace and a generally serous, but not too serious tone is agreeable, and looks like the beginning of something worth watching for adventure fans. Recommended.

[shinta|hikari]

There's already a thread for this. Reporting for merge.

[neflight86]

Oops, just saw it. Sorry for the confusion.

[shinta|hikari]

Np, common mistake. I know I've done this more than once.

[Kraco]

Episode 2 - HS




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That was a pretty nice trick. Exactly the kind of stuff I want to see in shows like this. The MC is quite hard to judge, indeed, the other characters got that right. At least he seems to have far deeper reasons for his plans than simply some fleeting distaste, unreasonable pacifism or whatever. I'd like to know why he stays in the empire, though, and didn't follow his teacher to the republic. He doesn't even have his mother, that is, his only family, to keep him back now, but he has plenty of reasons to dislike the empire. He didn't want to try to change it, either, instead wishing to live a quiet life. It's indeed weird and twisted. Nevertheless, I like this setting.

On the other hand, I don't much like the play with the word scientific or science as it seems kind of goofy and artificial under these circumstances, so I hope it won't have any real role in the story, or at least until the setting changes, which it shouldn't with the folks heading for the military school.

I wonder if Yatori likes Ikta. If they were mere childhood friends, you'd think she would draw the line somewhere in continuing to look after him, especially when their original goals were totally different. Now his rash nature might jeopardise this very promising start she suddenly got handed over to her, even if it was all thanks to Ikta's nefarious plots. Being official soldiers and knights to boot now, they can't get away with not keeping themselves in check. Yet, Ikta is forced to serve there now, against his will, so wouldn't he logically try to get himself removed from the school? Yatori couldn't very well go along with that. She would need to distance herself from him in order to chase her own dreams.

[Ryllharu]

Alpha male lead character, a lazy genius with impulsive violent tendencies. Of course Kraco will be all over this series.

I'm rather fond of the style overall. It feels very Byzantine, with hints of steampunk (despite the magical sprite connection). It's a huge mishmash, but it actually works really well.

Personally, the standout character is the Princess. Ikuta is standard lazy genius LN hero. Yatori is standard violent heroine. But the Princess has some nuance thus far. She views her own country as horribly corrupt, but wants to reform it from within, and while she's young and prone to outbursts and rash decisions, she's on par with Ikuta's military savvy but with politics and associated machinations. Ikuta and the Princess make a great pairing (not romantic, but overall).

I also liked the way they handled the sniper getting his first kill. It shocked and horrified him. There went so much unsaid with that exchange. The calm way that Yatori and Ikuta handled it meant they'd both killed before, or seen enough death that their actions didn't phase them. Similarly, the Princess had never directly caused someone to meet their end. The whole sequence was really well done.

[KrayZ33]

I really like the maincharacters in this show. I even share a surname with one of them, heh.

Yatorishino is an excellent female lead character too.. and extremely beautiful.
I love their style of clothing and the Imperial Guard looked badass.

[Munsu]

Caught up, and this one I like. The violence in the 2nd episode was promising to see and cemented it.

Story wise it feels quite disjointed for now, but I'll forgive it. Certainly enjoying the characters so far.

[Munsu]

Here's episode 3:
http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=832730

Downloading now.








Edit: Well, entertaining episode overall and Solork is Boss, yet it was merely a setup episode so not much to go on. Clearly in the training phase of the show, so not much to care about all told at the moment.

The note passing scene between him and the Princess during class was golden.

[shinta|hikari]

Ikta is the Boss.

The narration is spoilery, but it makes his bad assery even more bad ass.

I want to rape Yatori.

[NeoCybercoin]

Eh you'd have to overpower her first. Good luck with that. Think she will only ever accept Ikta the way she talks about him.

[Ryllharu]

This series sure is slow, but not in a bad way.

Each of the episodes feel very dense, and that's something I always interpret as a positive sign (with the exception of a couple specific genres).

Good tactical shows are rare. It's a hard balance to keep over the long term, because the hero often starts to develop plot-telepathy. Ikta explaining his rationale to the side characters or audience stand-ins helps alleviate that. So far, it hasn't felt like too much exposition when he does it either. Good stuff.

[shinta|hikari]

Eh you'd have to overpower her first. Good luck with that. Think she will only ever accept Ikta the way she talks about him.

I want to. Doesn't mean I'd try. Not until after I drug her.

[Kraco]

Let's hope Ikta will acquire competent opponents later. It's far too easy to look like a genius if the enemy is a simpleton hothead. Although that being said, it's appropriate the opponent this time is like this due to being a regular bully. I hope they won't be stuck in the academy so long we would get the much more nefarious irregular bullies. That being said, it's quite funny Ikta needs to count on Yatori to make the bullies even capable of falling into his trap in a timely manner. I imagine Yatori won't be going all out trying to avoid difficulties. In this particular case she can probably accept a lost battle as long as she gets a good fight. Not that she would lose her individual fights.

Ikta's attitude really makes this series a success. The rest of the characters so far are quite forgettable. I hope Yatori at least gets a chance to shine a bit on her own, not only as a part of Ikta's plans.

[Buffalobiian]

I want to. Doesn't mean I'd try. Not until after I drug her.

Pray to Katsurai Yoshiaki and maybe he'll write you something.

Next weekend is going to be soo long away.


The narration is spoilery,

That's a given though. I never once expected them to say "The mock battle was Ikta's first taste of humble pie"

[KrayZ33]

I totally love the fact that they are commanding troops. As simple as it sounds, (and I don't know if it'll change in the future) it's so much better than seeing generic adventurer shows.

I don't really know how to explain it, but I have a lot of fun watching this so far. It's... less childish(?)? That's probably not the correct word for it, but the main characters in this show are so much more interesting than the ones from Tales of X, No Game no Life, Overlord or Gundam etc.
It's so much more entertaining than 'that show with the cat/beastmen girls/guys that had a human that lost his memories that was supposed to be a general or something' (<--- totally forogot the name of that show) even though they should be fairly similar

[Buffalobiian]

I don't really know how to explain it, but I have a lot of fun watching this so far. It's... less childish(?)? That's probably not the correct word for it, but the main characters in this show are so much more interesting than the ones from Tales of X, No Game no Life, Overlord or Gundam etc.

"less childish" is one way to put it. These characters are more worldly and are a bit more than than "great minds that beat people in games/stats/military".

The other shows you had:

1) gamer wants to play more games to win (also freaks out if he's not in line of sight with sister)
2) gamer wants to find the rest of his guild (also internally freaks out and makes NPCs love himself)

Gundam tends to vary.
I don't know much about Tales of X stories. The few I've encountered were adventure stories with pretty clear goals.

It's hard to articulate how a MILF hunter is more mature than a sis-con, but there's that.

[shinta|hikari]

Him not being a virgin is one reason.

[Buffalobiian]

Him not being a virgin is one reason.

lol. Maybe that was what I was trying to say.

[David75]

Him not being a virgin is one reason.
And scoring milfs, one of those being the mother of his subordinate who is his age. How cool is that ?

[Buffalobiian]

And scoring milfs, one of those being the mother of his subordinate who is his age. How cool is that ?

It really depends on the milf. The daughter suggests an average level of cool.

[shinta|hikari]

No, the mom is definitely better than the daughter. Ikta has really good taste.

[KrayZ33]

I hope he scores with Yatori as well, such a fine woman, dayum.

It's interesting to see that Ikta's troops are equipped with xbows, while the hottie-squad and that fat dude is using rifles.
Probably has to do something with his depot, but I don't see why he'd do it. I'm interested, I hope it'll make sense.

[Buffalobiian]

I imagine the depot is supposed to enhance their mobility. That's evident in their arriving earlier than expected.

The enemy will think he's slower than what he really is. The depot grants him mobility without being undersupplied.

He schooled them this very episode: war isn't won by just counting numbers, weapons and formation, but by when you apply that in a given point in time.

Boy, this brings back memories of when Lelouch was still fun to watch.

[David75]

It really depends on the milf. The daughter suggests an average level of cool.
Most teen girls are average at best and some get better when they turn 20. So hard to tell wether the mom is a gem of a milf or a cougar...
And as strange as it seems, although that girl is in a military school, so she should be a young adult, but I see her as a 15 years old.

But all of that was a simple and easy joke I liked, I doubt we get to see the mom, unless they have better jokes for us.

[shinta|hikari]

Episode 4 (http://magnet:?xt=urn:btih:OZNP4DMYY5FYK3DUFS3HRVTT24QHTG YN&tr=http://open.nyaatorrents.info:6544/announce&tr=udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80/announce&tr=udp://tracker.coppersurfer.tk:6969/announce)












Wow. That was really well adapted. I loved how bad ass Yatori was, but I loved the scene right after even more. The blurring, dulled sound and voices, camera angles, and direction were all great. The dialog between Ikta and Yatori was damn awesome and shows how deep a bond they share despite how cold they act towards each other.

[Kraco]

I really liked everything else about this episode, including the scene after the massacre, but I didn't like how Yatori slew all those specially trained soldiers all by herself in that fashion. It kind of makes Ikta's masterful planning and stratagems meaningless if there are inhuman killing machines that could single-handedly destroy enemy platoons. I'm quite sure there would have been better and more believable ways to make her look just as badass, like a suitable location for the ambush that would have allowed Yatori to really face only a couple of the enemies at the same time, rendering it impossible for the enemy to use any tactics to defeat her. Now it was the grand anime tradition of opponents standing still while the hero slaughters them at leisure. It annoys me when an otherwise jolly good ep has such a single flaw.

Still, it was a really good ep. I have high hopes for the whole show. A capable MC who's always doing what he wants and not caring about other people's meaningless opinions is so good.

[KrayZ33]

Yeah, I agree. the soldiers were too weak, I mean, they didn't push her back or block her even *once*. She is clearly too strong for this kind of show.

Why/how would she even appear in the middle of that group, that was stupid, sadly. She's a freaking Naruto-Ninja.
They protected the Captain, using a defensive formation and then she stealthjumped right into it as if she was Zabuza, without the fog and with full visibility.

[shinta|hikari]

She jumped down from a tree, I'm guessing.

Yatori is basically Suzaku to Ikta's Lelouch. Even with her skill, she couldn't win the mock battle, so there are limits to her abilities. I think those soldiers all went on panic mode after their precious leader got sniped, leading to their demise. Also, Yatori was right in the middle of the group, preventing them from shooting at her in fear of friendly fire.

If they had another soldier with a rifle and his wits about twenty feet away when all this was happening, I think she'd be dead. Add to that the fact that she was completely exhausted after that display of martial prowess, she isn't OP at all. One could argue that a few more soldiers in that scene could've injured or killed her after she runs out of gas.

[Ryllharu]

Loved the depiction of Yatori's post-fight bloodlust. Just extremely well done. I don't know if I've ever seen that in anime before.

Think of Yatori as a Sword Saint. She's honed her one particular skill to the extreme, at the expense of all else.

She's really only as tactically inclined as she is because she knows Ikta so well. She anticipated what he would do, and deliberately misinterpreted her orders as much as possible in order to allow for her return, thus sparing her commander.

[Munsu]

So, I kinda loved everything about this episode. Clearly this is my favorite series so far this season.

The episode looked like it was going to be a generic training exercise episode and it turned out to be so much more, and very fast paced, no wasted moment. Just awesome in all honesty.

Hooray for laziness!

[shinta|hikari]

Sloth is the driving force of humanity. I completely agree. Everything I enjoy right now was driven by my desire to laze around.

[Buffalobiian]

One must not forget that the saying implies an equal desire for a goal or result. To ignore that bit means you have kids lying around thinking they're progressing humanity somehow.

The episode itself? Great.

[KrayZ33]

To ignore that bit means you have kids lying around thinking they're progressing humanity somehow.

Glorious

"What are you kids doing, why are you on the floor, face down!?!" - "we are trying to lead humanity into the next age mom, stop screaming"

[shinta|hikari]

I remember doing that once.

[Kraco]

Think of Yatori as a Sword Saint. She's honed her one particular skill to the extreme, at the expense of all else.


She's really only as tactically inclined as she is because she knows Ikta so well. She anticipated what he would do, and deliberately misinterpreted her orders as much as possible in order to allow for her return, thus sparing her commander.

That means she hasn't done anything at the expense of all else. She was still much better at tactics and military thinking than the dudes who were given leadership positions above her. If her whole worth was in the terminator fighting prowess, she couldn't have second guessed the dudes above her or rearranged the orders so that she could still save a part of the day, nor read Ikta's message from afar. In other words, she's worth a whole bunch of soldiers all alone in sheer fighting plus using her brain like a tactician.

Fortunately Ikta still has a much more interesting personality. Yatori's character really wouldn't take her to anywhere special on her own.

[NeoCybercoin]

She just knows that whenever Ikta does something, especially when it comes to tactics, something is up. I think she can only do that with Ikta and when it's a different situation with a commander she doesn't know, she'd most likely just follow orders.

[Munsu]

That means she hasn't done anything at the expense of all else. She was still much better at tactics and military thinking than the dudes who were given leadership positions above her. If her whole worth was in the terminator fighting prowess, she couldn't have second guessed the dudes above her or rearranged the orders so that she could still save a part of the day, nor read Ikta's message from afar. In other words, she's worth a whole bunch of soldiers all alone in sheer fighting plus using her brain like a tactician.

Fortunately Ikta still has a much more interesting personality. Yatori's character really wouldn't take her to anywhere special on her own.

Becoming a good fighter and being smart, logical, capable of strategy aren't mutually exclusive despite how much time one spends polishing one over the other.

[Kraco]

Becoming a good fighter and being smart, logical, capable of strategy aren't mutually exclusive despite how much time one spends polishing one over the other.

Right, of course not. But becoming a fighter like her is impossible, even if one excluded everything else. That's why making her a really one-sided (unnaturally in realistic terms) character would be a balancing act.

[Munsu]

Right, of course not. But becoming a fighter like her is impossible, even if one excluded everything else. That's why making her a really one-sided (unnaturally in realistic terms) character would be a balancing act.

It's a fantasy story, all's good.

[Kraco]

It's a fantasy story, all's good.


It kind of makes Ikta's masterful planning and stratagems meaningless if there are inhuman killing machines that could single-handedly destroy enemy platoons.


That's why making her a really one-sided (unnaturally in realistic terms) character would be a balancing act.

I'm only interested in keeping this story enjoyable, not the whole fantasy genre.

You know, to exaggerate a little, what good was Ikta's brilliant first plot in the show, to get the group back to the empire using the scheme with the hot air balloon, if Yatori could have simply slaughtered every enemy soldier at the border post instead, allowing them to pass just as easily and even keep their gear? With Ikta's plan there was still a high chance of something going wrong as it really relied on the opponent making a hasty decision under stress, but with Yatori simply killing everybody, nothing could have gone wrong since there wouldn't have been an enemy left standing.

See what I mean?

[Munsu]

I'm only interested in keeping this story enjoyable, not the whole fantasy genre.

You know, to exaggerate a little, what good was Ikta's brilliant first plot in the show, to get the group back to the empire using the scheme with the hot air balloon, if Yatori could have simply slaughtered every enemy soldier at the border post instead, allowing them to pass just as easily and even keep their gear? With Ikta's plan there was still a high chance of something going wrong as it really relied on the opponent making a hasty decision under stress, but with Yatori simply killing everybody, nothing could have gone wrong since there wouldn't have been an enemy left standing.

See what I mean?

Not going to overthink it as the whole balloon plan was stupid in the first place. :)

[shinta|hikari]

Yatori isn't invulnerable. A good sniper from a decent distance away would pawn her. The situation in the forest was the exception.

[Buffalobiian]

Yatori isn't invulnerable. A good sniper from a decent distance away would pawn her. The situation in the forest was the exception.

Wait till she cuts a bullet in half.

[shinta|hikari]

Hey don't spoil.

[Kraco]

Episode 5 - HS



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Those were some mighty decisive actions from a couple of kids, but it was a very nice episode. Despite normally not liking flashbacks, I ended up liking this episode. It explains more than sufficiently why Yatori goes to such lengths to endure Ikta's quirky personality, which was something I wondered before. Now I can accept it alright.

However, I still think that civilization looks too neat and developed not to have anything scientific going on.

[Munsu]

Episode 5 - HS



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Those were some mighty decisive actions from a couple of kids, but it was a very nice episode. Despite normally not liking flashbacks, I ended up liking this episode. It explains more than sufficiently why Yatori goes to such lengths to endure Ikta's quirky personality, which was something I wondered before. Now I can accept it alright.

However, I still think that civilization looks too neat and developed not to have anything scientific going on.

Agreed in just about everything.

I did think the whole wolves thing was ridiculous though, very stupid scenario and how it all played out.

[shinta|hikari]

How can wolves be smarter than arrogant military students?

The part where the leader wolf uses another wolf as a pedestal to jump inside made me laugh. That scene would've made more sense if they made up fantasy wolves, which are supposedly smarter than normal variants.

I'm actually surprised Yatori gave Ikta a run for his money in chess. Now that's just plain impressive. She's like Inaho.

[Kraco]

If the humans can produce stainless steel, among other things, despite not knowing science at all, it's only fair the wolves were at least that smart.

Yatori mentioned she had played chess before as it's was a part of what's expected of her social class. Considering her background, I reckon she then played it a lot and always against adults. It's possible Ikta had played it much less, he had lots of different interests after all, and many of the times might have been against other kids. In other words, Yatori could have offered a challenge through sheer experience, not innovation.

[Munsu]

Yeah, the whole wolves using each other as a trampoline was the epitome of idiotic.

But whatever, moving on.

I want to see more from the mom and dad. I don't know if there'll be time but I want to see what the went through, not solely as an anecdotal event.

[Ryllharu]

I'm actually surprised Yatori gave Ikta a run for his money in chess. Now that's just plain impressive. She's like Inaho.
She's like Akari (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=character&charid=62588).

But the Ikta-Yatori combination is actually better than that duo. Ikta and Yatori compliment each other in both personality and skills, with neither's demeanor really dominating the other's.

She's the weapon he needs, and he's the humanity she needs to stay human. Yatori is smart enough to never question his strategies, because she can grasp the nuances others miss, and trust his judgement. Yatori provides Ikta both the flawless execution of his ideas, and provides the respect of a serious individual to bring weighted trust in him when others might doubt him.

[shinta|hikari]

But Tooru is the superior fighter among the two and also has a good head above his shoulders.

Yatori is like a queen of all trades, only beaten by Ikta by a small margin in tactics, unless their time apart has widened that gap significantly.

[Ryllharu]

Ikta is much smarter than Yatori. Substantially so. If they were playing chess, she thinks ahead four moves, he thinks ahead ten, while being blindfolded the whole time.

She's smart enough to see a few of the angles he's going for, when everyone else thinks he's doing something insane. She might not understand exactly what his plans are, but she knows enough to operate independently as his field commander.

Something like, "Yatori, obliterate their flank. Destroy their storehouses. [Then mesh with whatever we have going on when you rejoin the main battle in order to pincer them, or simply rejoin if they go to try to put out those fires.]"
He never says the latter part, she just does it based on the objectives he gives her.

[shinta|hikari]

Well, I was just basing my assessment on the chess match between them when they were children. Ikta's father called it a close match, and Ikta looked serious.

[Buffalobiian]

Yatori is smart and grew up in a military family. Tactics and such would be part of her education. She's decently smart as well.

Yatori is more worldly than she is and is also better at reading people. When they were young she may have given some trouble in chess, but I don't think she'd be able to bait people like he did in their mock battle (faking the river's depth etc).

[shinta|hikari]

How can Yatori be more worldly than her?

[Buffalobiian]

How can Yatori be more worldly than her?

Ikta*. -Yatori.

[Ryllharu]

Well, I was just basing my assessment on the chess match between them when they were children. Ikta's father called it a close match, and Ikta looked serious.
I meant currently, but forgot to put that in the post, despite thinking I should have when I typed it.

I agree they were tactical equals in this episode's flashback period, and their combat skill was closer to each other as well.

I'm suspect we'll start to see Ikta pull away from her on a tactics basis next episode when they're teens, as well as Yatori displaying combat skill that puts her into bloodlust. That's how this flashback was introduced at the beginning of this episode; that Ikta is the only one who can force her to maintain humanity.

[Kraco]

Yatori was already far above Ikta in combat skill in this flashback. Ikta could barely fight at all. It looked like he learned to use the crossbow in this very episode. Yatori has probably been learning the sword as soon as she could stand, and was much better with the crossbow as well. They both got much better since then, but I'm not sure you could say there were closer back then. It's just that they both were nothing but children.

[shinta|hikari]

Yeah, Ikta is a totally Lelouch type. Comically unable to fight in exchange for being psychic.

[Munsu]

Episode 6:
http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=839596


Some entertaining scenes, but overall an underwhelming episode overshadowed by a lack of follow-up to what occured 2 episodes ago (training exercise results and princess kidnapping) + a dumb spider scene.

[shinta|hikari]

That spider scene was dumb as hell. I wanted the spider to bite the officer as soon as it dropped, making it reasonable for him to run to the infirmary or something. The way it happened, he just disappeared into thin air.

Yatori is imba. She wasn't even parrying the hulk's sword. She was blocking it with one hand! Her muscles must be made of alloy or something.

Ikta's perverse attitude is entertaining as always. It serves as a good contrast to his kiddy male friends. I do wonder though. What if Ikta actually came onto Yatori? How would that end?

[Munsu]

That spider scene was dumb as hell. I wanted the spider to bite the officer as soon as it dropped, making it reasonable for him to run to the infirmary or something. The way it happened, he just disappeared into thin air.

Yatori is imba. She wasn't even parrying the hulk's sword. She was blocking it with one hand! Her muscles must be made of alloy or something.

Ikta's perverse attitude is entertaining as always. It serves as a good contrast to his kiddy male friends. I do wonder though. What if Ikta actually came onto Yatori? How would that end?

Maybe we'll see in a flashback? Can't imagine he hasn't put on the moves by now in some fashion.

As for the spider, I'm more pissed at the whole shake the whole brick building to drop a spider directly on a solider's face...

[shinta|hikari]

Yeah, a connected wooden structure would've made more sense. The creators depended too much on the viewers being idiots in that scene.

[Ryllharu]

Ikta's perverse attitude is entertaining as always. It serves as a good contrast to his kiddy male friends. I do wonder though. What if Ikta actually came onto Yatori? How would that end?
I think Yatori would just take it stoically, bash him on the head, then demand he marries her if he's so keen toward her, while wondering if his laziness would produce inferior Igsem heirs.

She does respect him, after all.


Ikta's pervy gaze does bring up a good point: there is some realistic variation in the character designs.

Matthew being a fatty is obvious enough, but the girls are balanced appropriately as well. This isn't a series were the only way to differentiate female characters is by their hair color, though their faces are all a bit on the samey side. It becomes a lot more obvious when Ikta calls out Haro's curves...the female characters all have unique body shapes, and they're not typical anime caricatures, they're actually proportionate and possibly even intelligently thought out.

- Haro has big boobs, true, but her shoulders are also the widest of the main cast, which makes her look correctly and realistically proportioned for being so well endowed, which matches the principles of anatomy.
- Yatori has narrower shoulders, but still wider than similarly-endowed girls because she's tall and is meant to be a sword fighter, so she holds them high.
- The princess is a loli, because she is a loli, and her shoulders and hips are still in a straight line, in line with not having hit puberty.
- Suya, the bitchy girl with wild hair, has narrow hips and even narrower shoulders, which plays into her insecurities as a character. They're permanently held in tension.
- Ikta's mother has very low shoulders, and wider hips.

And so on. Even look at the background characters when Kanna is getting chewed out by that scumbag. The only ones that are copy-paste are the ones behind the window.

It's pretty rare to see that in a series. I'm not sure which is more rare, variation at all, or mostly-realistic anatomical proportions.

[David75]

Regarding proportions, my 5'3" wife had F cup boobs that really didn't feet her shoulder width proportionally.
She had them reduced because she had problems with her back and posture. For a 52kg woman, they had to take out 800 g on the left and 700 on the right for a C cup end result that now fit her proportions. Yup, almost 3% of her total body weight was in there and in the end she's still a nice C cup.
So even if the average has some proportions, some exceptions do exist ;)

[Kraco]

I reckon the spider scene was so stupid in order to free Ikta from any responsibility, as opposed to actively throwing the thing at the officer. It would have worked better if they had bothered to make Ikta guide the officer into running head first into a web with the spider in the middle of it, or any other more plausible scenario. This is so obvious that it's hard to imagine the original novel would have played it like this. After all, words on paper don't cost anything, unlike animation frames.

Female MC physically abusing the male MC is such a tired trope that most of the time I would prefer series without it, but at the very least it's more than likely Yatori herself was punished continuously in such a manner back home when the Igsem were bringing her up as a human weapon.

As long as Ikta keeps hitting on girls, things will stay jolly, nevertheless.

[Kraco]

Episode 7 - HS



-- - --




So, who's the man holding the strings in the shadows? I wouldn't count so easily on the Lieutenan General, as it seems to me he wouldn't be in a position to secretly train and brainwash locals to act as freedom fighters. He might be collaborating with the actual culprit, though. It seems to me the neighbouring enemy country lilely isn't behind it, despite this certainly being of great benefit to them, at least for the time being.

It'll be interesting to see how Ikta is going to solve this, assuming he will.

[Munsu]

I just love how at any time the story can get plenty graphic violent.

[KrayZ33]

I really, really dislike this "for science!" bullshit that's going on in this show.
It makes absolutely no sense for "science" to be something "new" or "strange" or whatever it's supposed to be. Otherwise this show is really great.

[Munsu]

I really, really dislike this "for science!" bullshit that's going on in this show.
It makes absolutely no sense for "science" to be something "new" or "strange" or whatever it's supposed to be. Otherwise this show is really great.

Yeah, agree... It's the least interesting part of the show for sure.

[shinta|hikari]

Maybe they use magic to produce everything? I think their rifles are powered by their spirits, right?

I think their point is the current civilization and thinking in the show are pre-scientific revolution.

[KrayZ33]

They have canons, blackpowder is clearly a thing. At least people in the military should know about inventions and science, the whole setting and their military clothing suggest that they are somewhere between where we were during the 17th - 19th century.

Of course science isn't "science" during that time and a lot of things were actually stupid and wrong, but it's not like are anywhere near the medieval age anymore. The availability of books (and guns) suggests that it's at least ~1600+

[shinta|hikari]

Maybe that's the only thing the "science" thing is trying to point out? People practice it, but they don't know it is called "science" and aren't that efficient about it.

That gives Ikta an edge over everyone else because he knows the scientific method.

[KrayZ33]

I don't know about that, it seems like the literacy rate is quite high so they visited schools, even military academies, so they *are* actually practicing science each day. They even have dedicated medic squads.

It's kinda as if he runs around saying "I'm actually a scholar" and people are like "Wtf is a scholar".

[shinta|hikari]

It's kinda like how people figured out that washing your hands before operating on someone or delivering a baby reduces the risk of death significantly without knowing about bacteria. They practice it but don't really put that much effort into knowing why that happens.

The "science" Ikta talks about here is the why, is my guess. Also, it's not like they haven't known about science while enjoying decent civilization for centuries. Maybe they really are at the starting period for their scientific revolution, and Ikta's teacher is one of the people to contribute to that.

The other thing is, the proven existence of magic may have made people lazy when it comes to developing science as a study. Gods actually exist and have visible effects on their lives, after all.

[David75]

The other thing is, the proven existence of magic may have made people lazy when it comes to developing science as a study. Gods actually exist and have visible effects on their lives, after all.
Spirits
I think the episode tried to tell us that in their world, they have 4 kind of spirits, but that the God and religion thing is a creation by the Empire. That's why they have to anihilate that tribe that directly idolates spirits without using the Empire's population control religion.

As for science, my take on this is that the corrupted empire is controlling it so that only practical applications get out, but they keep scholars and theories in over protected areas.
Ikta's teacher probably is a former empire scholar who decided to reclaim his freedom and started teaching without the Empire's control...

Although different, feels a bit like a Napoleonian setting.

[Kraco]

Modern science could be said to have started from Renaissance, albeit very slowly. No matter how you look at this show's world, it's much more tidy, clean, advanced, organized, and civilized than the end of middle ages. It reminds me of the 19th century, all in all, with a bit of 20th century considering how women can have a direct influence in the society. Science in the 19th century was already getting as a big a thing as it has been during our times.

In my personal opinion the science stuff in the series is a somewhat clumsy attempt to create a contrast between modern thinking and religion. But it's clumsy, as if the author was afraid of Isis and didn't want to say too much.

[KrayZ33]

Yeah exactly... I get it that Ikta is trying to get this "you need to look at this from a different side"-thing going. But it seems so unfinished and the author tries really hard to make Ikta someone very special, just because he knows "science" (yet he never actually did any science himself outside of shaking containers).

What I'm saying is, he isn't really using knowledge about chemistry or physics for example. He's calculating, but that's something commanders should be anyway and from what we know so far, they were and are commanders that can do "nearly" (because he's MC) good as him.

I can't give the correct example right now.. you'd expect something like "Idiocracy" or No Game No Life... or that Yuusha-series where the demon princess introduced potatoes and all that kind of stuff.
Basically, it feels like he's supposed to use science to get an advantage in combat. But he isn't using science at all.

[shinta|hikari]

@Kraco - The main difference here is magic. Magic might have allowed them to reach the current level of civilization without needing science as much as we did.

@Krayz - Maybe we haven't gotten to that part yet. Ikta has only ever tactically defeated idiotic allies so far. Either way, his thinking is quite revolutionary for his time in the context of the story. Take note that students in his class were impressed by his speech about real time tactics, which is pretty much common sense if you think about it.

Our modern day lens give us an unfair advantage to say what is or what isn't right for their time/setting. Remember that people didn't even think about gravity until Newton saw an apple fall. We basically take science for granted because it's so commonplace and practically expected nowadays, but that wasn't always the case.

[KrayZ33]

I understand that, but the people in his time don't fit that description in my book. The students actually *are* the problem because it's very unlikely that they never heard of science (and the way they act whenever he mentions it tells me that they really haven't) and that itself seems so unreal. Whether Magic and Spirit exist doesn't really change that, as Mages are often regarded as Scholars in most fantasy series anyway and they are basically the academics.

Like you used to say (allow me to change some words here): "If they haven't shown it yet, then it's bad writing" or " Show, don't tell"
If they really wanted to use that plot-device, I'm sure they had plenty of opportunities to do so since we are already 8 episodes in.
As for Newton, it's not like they didn't think about gravitiy before, they just couldn't explain and proof it, ballistics however is something that has to do with it too and they were already on that ever since the invention of catapults (or even before that).

Right now, at this point in time, this plot line is absolutely pointless and feels out of place. Which is why I dislike it so far. That being said, I'm actually all for a revalation in that regard - which wouldn't change how I'd view the story telling on that topic so far, but at least future references will make more sense then.

[Buffalobiian]

They need to use the word LOGIC instead of Science.

[Kraco]

Episode 8 - HS




- - - - - -




An excellent episode. I have nothing to complain about. This didn't particularly need any masterful plans from Ikta, only realising what the tools and troops he has available can do when put to proper use. But of course that alone requires a steady mind, unlike the higher officers showed.

Cruelty of war was depicted well. That forced wait of two days despite knowing it more than likely means they will arrive hopelessly late was an exquisite detail. Having established characters die is also necessary to make a meaningful war series. On a more general level I quite enjoy watching Ikta command troops, including naturally Yatori. The dynamics between those two really are interesting with Yatori keeping Ikta in check under non-military circumstances, whenever she's present, but it's not like she would be shadowing him all the time, so he has plenty of opportunities to pull off lazy or amorous stunts when she's not there. However, when shit hits the fan, she's the first to follow Ikta's orders perfectly.

This is ubdoubtly one of the strongest shows this season, despite the whole science word thing.

[Ryllharu]

Goodbye, attractive unexpected young widow. You deserved better, because you knew better.

I'm gonna be pissed if this series is only 12 episodes and doesn't at least get a second season.

[Munsu]

Awesome episode, have nothing to say beyond that. Sad about death.

[shinta|hikari]

This has enough novels for an impending 2nd cour. Want more? Buy the BDs. I know I won't. Coz I'm fucking cheap.

I'm 96.341 percent sure Ikta was based off or at least influenced by Yang Wen Li. If he had command of the entire battalion from the start, surprise widow wouldn't have had to die.

The only thing I felt was missing in this episode was Yatori comforting Ikta. He comforted her when she went berserk. The least she could do is offer a shoulder when he lost his one and only junior scientist.

The science and technology advancement concept begins to take shape. The concept of snipers was basically invented by Ikta and his green-haired friend. This story will basically revolve around how Ikta's group revolutionizes the art of war as they try to survive their superiors' idiocy.

[Munsu]

This has enough novels for an impending 2nd cour. Want more? Buy the BDs. I know I won't. Coz I'm fucking cheap.

I'm 96.341 percent sure Ikta was based off or at least influenced by Yang Wen Li. If he had command of the entire battalion from the start, surprise widow wouldn't have had to die.

The only thing I felt was missing in this episode was Yatori comforting Ikta. He comforted her when she went berserk. The least she could do is offer a shoulder when he lost his one and only junior scientist.


That assumes Yatori knew of her, I'm pretty sure they never met of was introduced to the group. Also, there was barely time to introduce a "comforting" scene.

Also, bonus points for mentioning the ever awesome:

http://i.imgur.com/S8LC8bh.jpg

[shinta|hikari]

I was hoping Yatori knew Ikta well enough to realize he was fundamentally damaged based on his expression. I mean, he looked more serious than ever when he turned around. I'm not looking for romance (ok, that's a lie, I am). I just want there to be something for Ikta in the childhood friend relationship. Yatori seems to be benefiting oodles form it at this point.

[Munsu]

I was hoping Yatori knew Ikta well enough to realize he was fundamentally damaged based on his expression. I mean, he looked more serious than ever when he turned around. I'm not looking for romance (ok, that's a lie, I am). I just want there to be something for Ikta in the childhood friend relationship. Yatori seems to be benefiting oodles form it at this point.

Again, there wasn't time. The moment Ikta turned around, the episode ended right there. Also, he never knelt besides a body, he simply picked up the bandana and that's it. So, in all the circumstances of what went on in the scene + episode time constraints, you're asking a bit too much from Yatori.

As it is, we'll never get to see what occurred or didn't occur given the pace this series jumps from events to events.

[shinta|hikari]

That's my point. The constraint you speak of is not set in stone. If the makers wanted Yatori to comfort Ikta, they could've squeezed in a minute of screen time for it. Cutting a few seconds from the numerous charging scenes in the episode would've sufficed. My complaint is more centered on the source material. It's likely Yatori simply never comforted Ikta in the novel, so timing in the anime series is actually irrelevant.

[Kraco]

The only thing I felt was missing in this episode was Yatori comforting Ikta. He comforted her when she went berserk. The least she could do is offer a shoulder when he lost his one and only junior scientist.

That's an interesting detail you mention. If I was asked whether Yatori would have done it even if there had been a minute left of the episode, I couldn't have given an answer. Are their relationship such? Ikta is treated as an exceptionally mature and independent genius character. How easy is to comfort such a person? Yatori has accepted what Ikta is and has created herself a behavior pattern in his company, which includes stopping him from expressing his more uninhibited quirks, but comforting him would be pretty much the opposite of that. Not to mention Yatori herself is a perfectly built human killing machine. It makes more sense Ikta (who's good at treating women in any case) is able to bring Yatori's humanity back when she's falled too deep into the killing mood. Would such a killer be able to comfort someone in turn is another question.

Now, I'm not saying it would be out of character. I'm saying I wouldn't know before it happened.

[Ryllharu]

@shinta: Did Yatori even know Ikta was fond of Kanna before he said so? All she saw was him holding a bloody ribbon, one that only he would recognize.

I don't blame the directors for wanting to end the episode on that exact note, without giving room for Yatori to comfort him if she does or not.

[KrayZ33]

The question is if someone like Ikta even wants to be comforted in such a situation right away.. I sure wouldn't want that And I honestly believe that it would've ruined the scene. The fact that he didn't collapse and cry pretty much tells us and her that this wasn't the time.

[David75]

It also shows that he has the strength to overcome all of the emotions rushing when he discovers Kanna's corpse, even if he might have saved her at the expense of his troops... We'll probably have him go on, after the harsh reality of imperfect choices he will continue to face in the future.
One could argue that Kanna was that close to him, but it's still hard to swallow for him.

[Buffalobiian]

I agree with Ryll. The point was to spotlight Ikta's human side. This sacrifice affects him personally.

When they show him next time without regretting his choice it will show that he's not selfish either.

Injecting Yatori's concern there lessens the impact and draws focus to their dynamics instead of Ikta's suffering and burden.

[shinta|hikari]

I wish they could've shown her attempting to ask him about why he became emo all of a sudden, then thinking better of it and stopping. An aborted hand reach animation would've done the trick.

That way, you get the Ikta development and Yatori development without losing the focus of the final scene. Currently, it's like Yatori is either dense or didn't give a damn. The sudden change in Ikta's behavior was pretty obvious.

[KrayZ33]

That way, you get the Ikta development and Yatori development without losing the focus of the final scene. Currently, it's like Yatori is either dense or didn't give a damn. The sudden change in Ikta's behavior was pretty obvious.

Yatori saw that too

and also, naaah... it's probably you alone who judged the scene like this, in all honesty.

[shinta|hikari]

And your point is? I just have stricter standards. "It's okay" is not enough if it could be easily improved.

[KrayZ33]

This has nothing to do with standards...

And it's only an improvement from your point of view. It bothers me that you make it sound so objectively. There was no need to show affection there, it's just you who *wanted* to see that.

Yatori is by no means dense or cold-hearted just because she didn't grab him and let him sob onto her big, well endowed chest.
And it's not like she didn't try to comfort him in the first place...

[shinta|hikari]

LOL, why are you always so touchy when it comes to standards? We've been through this before. Posts are just opinions. So is claiming that I have better taste. It's tongue in cheek humor that you were supposed to chuckle at, like "coz I'm God."

The implied point of my last post was, it doesn't really matter if most of you think differently. In the end, that's also just an opinion. Numbers don't equal correctness. Think democracy and Trump. Oh, and Brexit.

Take note, this doesn't mean I'm factually right either. I just wanted to point out that the superior numbers argument is empty and kills discussion.

Putting that aside (because it really isn't relevant to this thread at all), I didn't notice Yatori try to comfort him. Was it when she looked at him straight? I don't remember her doing anything beyond that.

[KrayZ33]

How am I "touchy" just because I decide to answer and discuss your points...

If all you want to do is troll and look for "waki", I guess go ahead, at least I'd know for sure then that you don't want to talk/write with anyone here.

Also, especially since we had this discussion several times, it's rather obvious that you didn't mean this as a joke when you said that.


Putting that aside (because it really isn't relevant to this thread at all), I didn't notice Yatori try to comfort him. Was it when she looked at him straight? I don't remember her doing anything beyond that.

Basically the whole conversation they had before Ikta stopped and kneeled down was her comforting him.

[shinta|hikari]

I wasn't trolling. I was implying your comment about "most of us don't think like you, so you're wrong" argument is empty. Saying that doesn't really mean anything and discourages discussion because you're pressuring with numbers.

Adding quote:


and also, naaah... it's probably you alone who judged the scene like this, in all honesty.

I understand you didn't get my initial tongue in cheek remark (perhaps it was too veiled, which is my shortcoming), but I explained it in my previous post.

I meant touchy in a joking manner. See the LOL at the start? It's just happened so many times before I couldn't help but bring it up. You call me out on "pretending to be objective" when I never really think or do that.

Claiming that I don't want to talk/discuss when I'm probably the heaviest poster (and yes, I post stuff other than waki that generates discussion, like this talk about Yatori's lack of reaction, for example) in GW this year is ridiculous. That's a baseless accusation. Why would you even say that?

EDIT:

Just saw your edit. Gotcha. I thought you meant AFTER the ribbon scene.

EDIT 2:

I meant it as a witty reply. Perhaps too witty that it was hard to understand (this isn't a hit at you, it's more my shortcoming for not realizing it was too confusing). You seem to have a very twisted image of me as someone who believes himself objective, when that is farthest from the truth. I'm the first person to call someone out when they use the word "objectively" in their posts.

Just because I omit the "I think" prefixes in my comments doesn't mean I'm claiming factuality. It's a given. Moreover, I've actually put in effort to place "I think" in a lot of my posts recently (at your request, remember the whole ruckus about posting tone?), especially criticisms.

That's (the whole discussion about posting tone, which we even took to PM) precisely why I thought you'd get the irony in my post about "standards" and realize it was a tongue in cheek remark. Basically, you should know me enough by now.

[KrayZ33]

Maybe I've been playing too many online games but when someone writes "LOL" in the beginning of a sentence, especially when people are having a discussion, it isn't normally supposed to introduce a joke/witty comment.

and my "most of us don't think like you, so you're wrong" wasn't empty when you literally wrote "it looks like she is X", obviously, when a lot of people disagree, it doesn't look like X at all and it's at best up to the individual how he interprets that scene.
I can go and say "This tree looks like a big stone", when people tell me it doesn't, maybe my view on it is somewhat twisted? Obviously they could remain silent - but they'd be like "wtf?"



Claiming that I don't want to talk/discuss when I'm probably the heaviest poster (and yes, I post stuff other than waki that generates discussion, like this talk about Yatori's lack of reaction, for example) in GW this year is ridiculous. That's a baseless accusation. Why would you even say that?


I say that because you just said it one or two posts before... what is there for me to say other than, write what you mean and mean what you write, use /s, be more obvious, whatver. Leaving out the "I think" is a huge part of how someone will view your comment - at least introduce the train of thought with it, it doesn't mean you have to reuse it for everything you say. You are making a point that is up to debate if you don't use it. If I had (and it seems like I have)to guess and reconsider the meaning of what your sentences *actually* mean, I'd rather not do it at all, it's too much of a hassle.

[shinta|hikari]

Well, I did go so far as explain the vague parts. I just think you should trust the explanation more than your knee-jerk reactions. If I wanted to troll you, I wouldn't go so far as explaining everything I meant politely, would I? Misunderstandings happen in text.

About the numbers, it's an empty argument because it doesn't challenge the claim directly. Instead of pointing out evidence why you disagree, you merely mention that "a lot of us disagree, and therefore we are more correct." That's a fallacy, because the majority isn't always correct.

Many geniuses have been called insane in their time. Just to be crystal clear, I'm not saying I'm a genius, but that historical fact serves as evidence as to why I don't believe in the argument of numbers. The majority may be missing certain details the minority noticed. The majority may simply not care about the possibility of improving something (think inventions).

So instead of using the numbers argument, I think it's better to simply point out details or evidence to back up why you disagree.

[KrayZ33]

About the numbers, it's an empty argument because it doesn't challenge the claim directly. Instead of pointing out evidence why you disagree, you merely mention that "a lot of us disagree, and therefore we are more correct." That's a fallacy, because the majority isn't always correct.

Or I'll just appeal to your common sense and ask you why exactly you think she is dense and heartless. You watched the show yourself, what is there for me to point at other than the scene itself.

to quote myself:
"There was no need to show affection there, it's just you who *wanted* to see that.

Yatori is by no means dense or cold-hearted just because she didn't grab him and let him sob onto her big, well endowed chest.
And it's not like she didn't try to comfort him in the first place... "

It's shipping ~ wishful thinking, which is why I said it's not about "higher standards". The scene would've had the same effect on these terms on (obviously only "most") people whether they pamper your/our shipping or not. There is also something called consistency. Having Ikta break and Yatori comforting him more than she did already would've been an out of character experience for a good chunk of people.

[shinta|hikari]

How can you claim that Yatori isn't dense? I think that's up in the air at the moment. I am referring specifically to Ikta's reaction to the ribbon. All she did was stand there and look at him. What that means is completely unknown right now. Granted, there also isn't enough evidence to say she didn't realize the change in Ikta's behavior.

That said, I always prefer a more assertive way of storytelling. I think tiny hints of what she was thinking, such as an eyebrow furrow, parted lips, etc, would be an improvement to just staring.

As for Yatori not giving a damn (I didn't use the word cold-hearted btw, because that's a bit stronger and generalized in terms of character), I guess we don't have anything to prove or disprove that either. Because she just stood there.

Which brings us back to my original point. Instead of having this blank slate element in Yatori's character, I thought it was a golden opportunity for her to show some personality and flesh out what she thinks of Ikta in present time.

Does that make Yatori a jerk? Of course not. But she could've been so much more than a scarecrow in that scene. Ikta almost never shows real weakness, after all.

EDIT:
Can we move on from the "stricter standards" thing? I explained the hell out of that already.

Also, it's not about shipping. It's about character development. They can stay friends forever. But even friends help each other out, or at least think about doing so, when a friend is down.

Comforting isn't limited to hugging like a baby. And I also mentioned several times now that an aborted attempt is good too. In fact, it might even be better and fits Yatori's character more. Showing Yatori with slightly wider eyes to show her realization of Ikta's abnormality, then parting her lips to say something but rethinking it and closing her mouth again, that kind of thing is enough.

[KrayZ33]

Why don't you use your knowledge about prior episode and think about what Yatori and Ikta are thinking right now... and draw their mental image from that ?

Let me give you an example:

Yatori is forcing Ikta into this
Ikta wants to help Yatori out of this.
Ikta hates what he became.
Yatori needs him to be what he is.
Ikta is forced to make these decisions.
Yatori is responsible for him to make these decisions and she knows he does it for her.
Yatori sees the carnage in the castle, starts to realize how Ikta must feel, after all - he was giving the order to wait.
Ikta is playing though, Yatori most likely knows that too.
Ikta behavior changes, Yatori managed to understand that (she did so in the past too) just because he did something unexpected
Ikta is angry/feels sorrow because of what happened, how can Yatori, who is forcing him into this, who made him feel like this, supposed to be the girl/friend to calm him down? She might as well be ashamed of herself at this point in time.

[shinta|hikari]

Of course we can easily deduce/infer/guess stuff like that, but that doesn't mean this wasn't a wasted opportunity. Character development is a task that slowly builds up, especially in critical scenes like this one.

Rather than thinking of my assertions as criticisms, it might be better to see them as suggestions for improvement. The scene, just to be clear, didn't fail. I just think it could've been better, and I have been posting really easy ways to do that.

@Your edit:
You seem to be missing a detail in my posts that I've repeated 3x or more now. An aborted attempt is good too.

All that info you mentioned is probably true, and would've been further emphasized if Yatori actually tried to comfort him but thought better of it.

Right now this:


Ikta is playing though, Yatori most likely knows that too.
Ikta behavior changes, Yatori managed to understand that (she did so in the past too) just because he did something unexpected
Ikta is angry/feels sorrow because of what happened, how can Yatori, who is forcing him into this, who made him feel like this, supposed to be the girl/friend to calm him down? She might as well be ashamed of herself at this point in time.

Is purely speculation. With the addition of some detail to Yatori's reaction to Ikta's change, this speculation could've been cemented or at least given more support.

[KrayZ33]

It's a question of whether you want to include that detail or not. Having relatively clear relationships might be less interesting for the viewer and reader than not having them. He/they could've shown all of that, or even the attempt alone.

But they decided not to, they also decided against it in episode 2 towards the end and thought that it'd good enough for Yatori to not say anything at all and just lean on his back. This is probably the same scene in V2.0

[shinta|hikari]

The question is did they really decide not to? Maybe they just missed the opportunity, I don't know. My guess is that detail just wasn't in the source material, so it never made it into the anime.

Leaning on his back is a pretty big deal, both emotionally and figuratively (as symbolism in the context of the story). What we got in this episode was nowhere near that. She just literally stood there.

[Kraco]

Ikta didn't break here, unlike one could say Yatori did when she was slaughtering the pitiful soldiers back then. Ikta simply picked up a ribbon and let wind carry it away. Regardless of if Yatori is cold or not, she might still have been deciding whether Ikta is reflecting on stuff silently or is in need of help. He certainly didn't show too clear signs of being stricken with unbearable emotions.

On the other hand Yatori not doing, or even attempting to do, anything is also character development, if indeed it was a scene where some viewers would have expected her to do something. It's the same kind of development, just on a much, much smaller scale, as not saving someone about to be struck by truck-kun or something.

[shinta|hikari]

That I can understand. Intentionally keeping her expressionless to give a statement, such as how hardened she has become due to Igsem influence as she grew up, is indeed character development. I was mainly complaining if that was not the case, and the studio simply just forgot to do anything with her.

[Kraco]

Episode 9 - HS



- --- - - -- --





Those empire troops really aren't too good. But I guess that's what happens when veterans die and only the green ones are left. A stupid commander certainly doesn't help the situation. They should just hand over the whole command to Ikta.

I'm not quite sure why Yatori didn't slay the Sinack chieftain. Considering the tactics they are facing, they are obviously fighting against guerrilla forces, or, like the more organised side likes to call them, terrorists. There's quite little Nanaku could have done even if she had obeyed Yatori. Remembering past battles, Yatori shouldn't be one who would meaninglessly leave dangerous enemies alive like some shounen hero.

The conversation in the mess hall was... Yeah.

[NeoCybercoin]

I believe Yatori thought of it as the quickest way for the fight to stop. Have the enemy commander order them to stand down. If she didn't then she would die along with morale. I mean she seemed to be the strongest melee fighter they had. And if she were to be bested then who could even stand up against them?

[Kraco]

I believe Yatori thought of it as the quickest way for the fight to stop. Have the enemy commander order them to stand down. If she didn't then she would die along with morale. I mean she seemed to be the strongest melee fighter they had. And if she were to be bested then who could even stand up against them?

Yeah, but my problem with it is that I'd consider it more likely she couldn't have stopped her troops even if she wanted to. The enemy wasn't an army, it was paramilitary at best, and their battle formation seemed to be a bunch of independently operating teams, even if the initial attack was timed decently enough. So, the chieftain was more or less just a single (one person) team among many, with her personal task to slay the lieutenant general. However, by slaying the chieftain they might have avoided some future difficulties and lowered the enemy's morale after this particular battle.

[shinta|hikari]

Yeah, the only reason Yatori didn't kill that chick was because she is going to be part of the coming plot. I really hate stuff like that. Even if it was possible for the soldiers to stand down with the chick's order, killing her would've been just as beneficial. Just lop off her head and then show it off while announcing her death. That'd confuse the enemies, allowing the army to wipe them out with superior numbers. Taking them prisoner is a negative at this point. These are desperate warriors. You don't keep them around unless you have no other choice.

The Yatori fight looked good, but it didn't make sense. You can't just change horizontal force to vertical force just because you "intended" to. Yatori dodging a bullet just by knowing there's some sort of trick is also nonsense. The author is clearly more adept at politics, intrigue, and basic strategy than fighting choreography.

[Kraco]

Yatori dodging a bullet just by knowing there's some sort of trick is also nonsense.

That didn't bother me. Although I didn't pay attention to it, but if indeed Nanaku was exposing her back improperly, it would most certainly alert Yatori. Then she would only need to pay attention to a sort of break in the flow that would indicate for Nanaku the fight wasn't anymore a sword fight. Of course this assume Yatori isn't so stuck inside her box she could never expect anything, but I reckon her training must have also made her aware of not all opponents being perfectly pure swordsmen and women. Besides, she has spent a lot of time with Ikta full of tricks.

[KrayZ33]

Yatori dodged the bullet before it was shot. As for the change in direction, well, actually you should be able to, since the girl had a point to work with, it's doubtful that she'd have the necessary strength to do it and I'm pretty sure her wrist would hurt a lot after that. It's pretty cool though.

[shinta|hikari]

Changing direction like that requires a slanted contact point (i.e. parrying). If the contact is perpendicular (like in this case), the force pushes the sword the opposite direction, causing it to bounce back, not miraculously slide upward. Moreover, she wasn't just swinging the sword horizontally. Her entire body was swinging horizontally. Wrist power is irrelevant when considering the momentum involved.

Why does this matter compared to all the unscientific (but cool) shit the chick did in the fight? Because Yatori actually tried to beat the style by trying to stop the girl's momentum by stabbing her sword in the ground. That means it was a key point in the fight. Yet Yatori's very scientific countermeasure was beaten by hocus pocus.

Shounen fight moments can be divided into two categories. One is the flash, and the other is the turning point. Flash is just mainly cool stuff we mindlessly watch without considering the consequences because there's usually none related to the outcome. The turning points, however, need to make sense to make a fight result convincing. This was one of them.

How do they fix it? Have the girl kick off the ground the moment (or right before) she makes contact with Yatori's sword. That changes her direction at the time of impact, allowing her to suddenly divert her force upward with the help of Yatori's sword. Almost impossible because of timing? Yes. Unscientific (I'm using this word intentionally btw), no.

As for the bullet dodge, sure, Yatori moved before the bullet was shot. But that in itself requires her to predict that there was a gun about to shoot from the girl's back. Predicting that with the info she had is very hard to believe, no matter how careful she is. Even the enemy was shocked as to how she made that guess.

How to fix this? Add one more clue, like Yatori getting a glimpse of the straps on the chick's body during the fight. This is still amazing for Yatori because taking note of such a small thing in the middle of a duel requires superb observational skills. Yet, it tips her off that there's something attached to the chick's body. Add that to the other clues, and the final dodge makes more sense.

Here's the funny bit. Since you can't dodge bullets, there was no point in baiting Yatori. The chick could've just shot her from the start of the fight. Just slash, turn around, and shoot. The end. So... why didn't she? It's not like Yatori was jumping all over the place. The chick had dozens of moments she could've shot Yatori dead. Her back was turned to Yatori so many times in that fight. That hidden gun was that cheap.

The only reason I could think of is that the code word for shooting the gun is "You fell for it." I'm guessing the spirit can't see anything and needs the chick to tell her when to shoot. This sort of requires Yatori to be in a predictable and constant position before firing.

In that case, why the hell would you use that sentence as the code word..? That's like telling the enemy, "I'm about to use my super secret Noble Phantasm! Prepare yourself!"

[Buffalobiian]

It's too hard to aim at someone while spinning. It's easier to hit them when they're committed to charging straight at your back.

[shinta|hikari]

Harder than defying the laws of motion to change direction mid-spin? I think not.

Kidding aside, she could just, uh, stop spinning for a moment? Just slash, turn your back, and shoot. If the enemy has no idea about the gun, they won't suddenly dodge with your back turned to them. They will think, "Oh chance!"

[Kraco]

Considering they are pitiful guerrillas fighting agaist a whole empire, that back cannon was probably the epitome of their original weaponry. Nanaku would have most likely been counting on assassinating the lieutenant general with her sword and escaping promptly. Now she had to expose that secret weapon to a whole bunch of spectators.

That's of course but a single theory explaining why she waited so long to use it. Other than that, however, it seems to me she's an immature person very proud of her skills (which explains why the skills are so flashy), so she was probably also wanting to prove she can best any soldier of the empire.

[shinta|hikari]

The latter explanation you gave makes sense. It's just pathetic to see leaders/elite fighters acting all immature like that. If you can kill someone, you do it immediately. The delayed trump card concept is an anime trope I'm so sick of. So is the announced surprise attack trope.

Why can't they get rid of these? Do people even like them as story elements? It's like they are there just because of tradition.

[KrayZ33]

Changing direction like that requires a slanted contact point (i.e. parrying). If the contact is perpendicular (like in this case), the force pushes the sword the opposite direction, causing it to bounce back, not miraculously slide upward. Moreover, she wasn't just swinging the sword horizontally. Her entire body was swinging horizontally. Wrist power is irrelevant when considering the momentum involved.

Not sure why you think the clash between the sword made her change directions.

She used the sword in the ground (her own, not Yatori's) and the momentum of the horizontal swing to get vertical height, which is something guys do in parkour all the time... a lot less extreme of course.

Which is why I said that her wrist is going to hurt, considering that she had to level all that force and mass with her hand alone.

Yatori tried to stop her horizontal movement, but the girl wasn't commited to it and didn't put as much force into it as she suspected, which is why the swords slide off of each, and not clash.
Not to mention that it wouldn't have done anything to the swing anyway, even if they clashed. At best, it would've made her lose balance or the sword in her hand, but that's it...she wouldn't have lost any speed (worth mentioning) whatsoever, but it is pretty much the only way to parry/block a swing like that.

[shinta|hikari]

Not to mention that it wouldn't have done anything to the swing anyway, even if they clashed. At best, it would've made her lose balance or the sword in her hand, but that's it...she wouldn't have lost any speed (worth mentioning) whatsoever, but it is pretty much the only way to parry/block a swing like that.

Yatori, a swordmaster, seems to think otherwise. She actually said "Stop already!" when she stabbed her sword into the ground. Clearly she intended to stop the chick's rotation with that move.

So what you're saying is that she used her other hand (the one we didn't see) to push off the ground (pretty much what I suggested in my earlier post about kicking off) to change direction. I can accept that explanation. It would've been better if they showed/explained how she did it a bit more, considering it was a key point in the battle.

[KrayZ33]

Sorta, I'm basically saying the girl used a move very similar to what we saw @ 17:35, she's lifting herself up there too. She uses the sword in the ground to change directions, it's possible to do that in a vertical direction, but it's obviously not as flashy and effective as in the anime... but we aren't discussing that :D. One additional problem would be: "How does she manage to use the sword for momentum and pull it out at the same time?" Because that's what she was doing several times. And that requires not only strength, but how do you pull out something that is anchored in the ground without losing the same/most of the momentum you gained.

It's looks and sounds more realistic than all these "weapon lock in midair + a jumpy escape" we see (in this anime too). For example @ 16:50 when Yatori blocks for the commander. That was and *is* the most annoying and stupid thing ever, you can't fucking block like that, your weapon will be brushed aside like ... I don't know.. a mosquito? And the "dualwield-sword-X-weapon block" is probably the worst thing someone can do. The enemy just used 1 weapon to block both of your hands, congrats - you are dead.

As for the sword in the ground, I think she intended to block and counterattack, not to block the momentum or movement itself completely. She couldn't attack at all before that. That's what swordsmen are trying to do, isn't it? You brush aside weapons, or you block one of your flanks with a sword/main gauche (which is what she is supposed to use)/buckler which creates an opening.


The fight scene itself however was so - well - done.. the animation was amazing, it looked so cool when she did her 360°s and the whole fight was so versatile. It freaking fast too, yet it kept being high quality without any obvious weird faces or lack in detail of some sort.

[shinta|hikari]

Yeah, that's another trope that doesn't make sense. At least we haven't seen the duel style dashing past sword exchange. Yet.

Fight scenes aren't this show's strong point. I remember Yatori easily parrying and blocking the giant fella's great sword with her short sword during their exhibition match. That makes no sense. Even if they were wooden weapons, the weights are too different.

[KrayZ33]

I believe the fights are actually pretty good, at least the ones ft. Yatori, they are better than Tales, which are 100% flashy, but nothing else.

[shinta|hikari]

I guess I just don't like unrealistic battles in a series that likes to pretend it's realistic. It's the same feeling you guys get from the "science" word, only with the combat.

Tales combat is meant to be flashy and nothing else. It isn't a realistic show at all.

[Kraco]

Episode 10 - HS



- - - - - - --




I thought the finger not growing back joke was a Gokusen original, but seeing it here as well, I reckon it might originate from some ancient Japanese fairy tale. Aside from that, I'm not entirely sure what to think of Ikta's decision to cut his own finger. The end result was as he wished, but it was nothing but theater in the end. Nanaku will at some point realise that. It worked because of the shock value of Nanaku seeing an old friend cutting his own finger for her sake. However, the unchanging truth is that objectively Ikta was the wrong man to cut his finger, and that's something Nanaku will understand later when she has got the time to think things through. So, in the end, an unrelated person offered her an apology and a sacrifice for something someone else did. That's kind of empty.

Who knows, perhaps Nanaku will pay him a nightly visit again, making it worth it.

I'm looking forward to the coming battles of wits. I hope they deliver, as much as the folks are looking down on the enemy, aside from the borrowed strategist.

[shinta|hikari]

I love how an important character actually lost a part of his body permanently. That's so uncommon in anime.

[NeoCybercoin]

What I also liked was that Yatori didn't even try and stop him
Personally I'm not quite sure what to think of the fact that suddenly he knows the chieftain of the Sinack. That seems to be a bit cheap to me but he did go to that village as a child.

[shinta|hikari]

It should've been shown in an earlier episode. Now it just feels like an excuse to allow Nana to sacrifice her people for the enemy.

And it's funny how a girl who went toe to toe with that Yatori could be beaten by a wooden pole, even if she was emotionally distraught. Her earlier antics and failure to defeat Yatori was clearly due to her immaturity.

[Kraco]

Immaturity is a severe weakness that can result in a defeat in myriad ways. Yatori doesn't suffer from it. Even if their skills were otherwise technically equal, that immaturity will make Nanaku weaker. However, I don't think she's as good as Yatori. She was too flashy with too many strange, big moves that would drain her stamina, making it a half-assed martial art unlike Yatori's. In fact that's probably one reason why she lost to those common grunts: After fighting Yatori and running home she had to be tired. Tired people underperform and make stupid mistakes.

[shinta|hikari]

I think she lost mainly because she went berserk after seeing her loved ones dead. It's not really something I can blame her for. I just confirmed your previous suggestion that she didn't go for the gun immediately with her duel against Yatori because of her immaturity.

[Munsu]

What I also liked was that Yatori didn't even try and stop him
Personally I'm not quite sure what to think of the fact that suddenly he knows the chieftain of the Sinack. That seems to be a bit cheap to me but he did go to that village as a child.

It's not really sudden, it's been foreshadowed for some time. Simply revealed now.

[Buffalobiian]

To all up coming lazy bums Iktas on this forum, the finger to cut is your index finger.

You can still point well with your middle finger afterwards, and your grip strength suffers the least from losing your index. It's also the best finger to lose cosmetically speaking.

[shinta|hikari]

Ikta doesn't need grip strength. He needs his index finger to pinch and thrust into certain things, if you catch my drift.

[NeoCybercoin]

Won't be very shocking though if you catch my drift.

[Ryllharu]

I liked that Ikta outright announces that his foe is his polar opposite, acknowledging the cliché meta aspect of it.

When this arc is over he can sleep with Megumin Nana again and all will be well.

[Shadow Skill]

I liked that Ikta outright announces that his foe is his polar opposite, acknowledging the cliché meta aspect of it.

When this arc is over he can sleep with Megumin Nana again and all will be well.

I feel ashamed. I didn't even recognize her voice lol. Heck she was even Kaon in Comet Lucifer. Yet I recognized her voice in Re Zero, wtf. I'm so bad. :(

[Kraco]

Episode 11 - HS


- - - - - - -




Not overly much to say about this episode, apart from it sucking real hard to fight a war with a significant number deficiency compared to the opponent. But at least they are all turning into veterans from greenhorns.

I wonder if Yatori would really do it if the order didn't seem 110% legit and meaningful. Although that being said, she might not find it so easy anyway considering Ikta seems like a man who would disappear very successfully if he wanted to.

[shinta|hikari]

She said she would, so she would. Yatori is not the type to put on airs or act tsundere. She is tsun to the core. However, her affection for Ikta would require her to destroy herself first. That was such an amazing reply, and so was Ikta's. I understand why the exchange brought tears to Boobies eyes.

I hope Suya dies in the next episode. I don't really hate her. I just want her gone so we can move on from the repeating trope of her complaining about Ikta. At least Nana has waki going for her.

I'm expecting to see Nana and her Sinack crew redeem themselves in the coming fight.

One thing that made no sense though is how the secretary girl protected the enemy strategist from return fire. She herself admitted to not knowing about the enemy having air rifles seconds after she protected him. That doesn't add up. Why would she think he was in danger if he was clearly out of range of normal air guns?

And it's funny how air "guns" and rifles look practically the same in this story but behave so differently lol.

[Kraco]

One thing that made no sense though is how the secretary girl protected the enemy strategist from return fire. She herself admitted to not knowing about the enemy having air rifles seconds after she protected him. That doesn't add up. Why would she think he was in danger if he was clearly out of range of normal air guns?

You don't have seconds in such a situation. Perhaps the secretary's main role is to keep the strategist alive. She might have seen such a glimpse of the enemy that it for one reason or another unsettled her and instinctively thought they were standing too close to the battle, without analysing at that moment whether the enemy in fact has any way to reach them.

[David75]

She said she would, so she would. Yatori is not the type to put on airs or act tsundere. She is tsun to the core. However, her affection for Ikta would require her to destroy herself first. That was such an amazing reply, and so was Ikta's. I understand why the exchange brought tears to Boobies eyes.

I hope Suya dies in the next episode. I don't really hate her. I just want her gone so we can move on from the repeating trope of her complaining about Ikta. At least Nana has waki going for her.

I'm expecting to see Nana and her Sinack crew redeem themselves in the coming fight.

One thing that made no sense though is how the secretary girl protected the enemy strategist from return fire. She herself admitted to not knowing about the enemy having air rifles seconds after she protected him. That doesn't add up. Why would she think he was in danger if he was clearly out of range of normal air guns?

And it's funny how air "guns" and rifles look practically the same in this story but behave so differently lol.
The difference beetween sniper rifle and conventionnal rifle really is those helix carvings in the barrel.
The bullet's rotation along its trajectory axis is an incredible technical step that tremendously improves precision.
D'Artagnan died because of that improvement that is already almost unnoticeable 3 meters away...

[Kraco]

The difference beetween sniper rifle and conventionnal rifle really is those helix carvings in the barrel.
The bullet's rotation along its trajectory axis is an incredible technical step that tremendously improves precision.

You can't really say that considering the English name for the weapon rifle comes from that very rifling in the barrel. So, by definition, a rifle should have a rifled barrel. Muskets and other smoothbores were the predecessors. These days rifling was only removed from some specific high calibre guns for the sake of special ammunition (mainly in MBTs).

[shinta|hikari]

So the main difference between the gun and rifle versions are the barrel grooves? That makes sense. I just wish they mentioned that. Not everyone is a military geek.

[David75]

My lack of knowledge in english didn't make the link beetween rifle and groove... And I do not have a passion for weapons either.
But that specific technical aspect did get my attention. And the D'Artagnan trivia was linked thanks to a lecture I was attenting to for work.
But yes, that detail greatly improves precision and distance a bit thanks to a better aero position of the bullet on the trajectory, for same mass/size of bullet/powder. I guess the need for better manufacturing probably also had a role for distance.

[Ryllharu]

So the main difference between the gun and rifle versions are the barrel grooves? That makes sense. I just wish they mentioned that. Not everyone is a military geek.
They did mention it. In episode 8. 15:14.

You have to interpret by the line that the regular air "rifles" are smoothbore. Prior to that line, you'd have no idea.

[shinta|hikari]

They did. I stand corrected.

[Kraco]

Episode 12 - HS



- - - - - - -



I guess we are getting something in the way of explanations for the weird science emphasis and also why the society seems developed in one way but backwards in another. It could be all related to the dominant religion, which is arbitrarily forbidding things (never would have expected that from a religion, haha). However, as expected that strict dominance is breaking. No matter what the priests preach, countries can't ignore crucial advances in warfare if the neighbours aren't ignoring them as well. When it then happens in the military technology (or ideology), it will leak elsewhere.

Other than that, quite pleasant warring in this episode. Both sides managed to surprise the other. I wonder why the invader doesn't really want to press forward. They have lost all of the surprise already. It seems more like their foreign expert strategist is more interested in testing his tactics and new technological innovations than progress the offensive. Kind of like the Germans went to Spain to test their weapons pre-WW2.

Another scene between Ikta and Yatori deepening their relationship. It's getting more and more interesting. I really wonder if he ever tried to hit on her or if she's the only woman he would never approach frivolously. Do they both understand they will never be a couple or is the opposite?

[shinta|hikari]

Yatori is special to Ikta and vice versa. Sleeping with her trivializes that, and thus it won't happen. Sex isn't the only identifier for closeness and mutual value.

Ikta failed this episode. The moment they said that items were being carried over, I knew they were cannons, because, what else would they be??? He DOHd this time. This is especially blame-worthy because he knew of the tech beforehand. I hope he redeems himself in the final episode.

[Kraco]

I wouldn't be so hard on Ikta. While he knew they exist theoretically, they had never been used in any war before. It's like the terrorists automatically thinking the USA brought a railgun or laser cannons to the field when they spied some big machine in the distance. Furthermore, apparently the theocracy hates all technological advances (or maybe everything powered by the spirits), so despite seeing the blimp earlier, his instincts still worked against him.

It proves nothing you, and I, immediately realised they must be cannons.

And I wasn't thinking about simply sex, rather a marriage and a family. However, the fact Yatori thinks nothing of Ikta's numerous dalliances certainly speaks against it. But why would Ikta then promise to stay with Yatori? That makes no sense. When a man or woman marries someone, they primarely will stay with that person and the forthcoming children. Is Ikta basically saying that neither of them will ever get married and instead they will just hang around as buddies for no particular reason for all eternity? I'd imagine the Igsem family would want heirs from Yatori. It's a centuries old noble family or something. They wouldn't want it to end. Is Yatori going to tell her future husband that by marrying her, he will also marry this lazy dude Ikta?

[shinta|hikari]

It proves nothing you, and I, immediately realised they must be cannons.

Yes it does. This story revolves around Ikta surprising everyone, including the audience, with his tactics and sage-like prediction abilities. When the audience one-ups him, the entertainment value drops. Think The Mentalist.

As you said, Ikta already saw the enemy using "forbidden" balloons. Obviously, they aren't gonna suddenly shy away from using forbidden tech that could turn the tide of battle. His mistake would be more understandable without that. But alas.

Ikta and Yatori are best friends without benefits. Getting married to some dude out of obligation won't change that. Ikta will obviously never marry.

[Kraco]

Ikta will obviously never marry.

Why is that obvious? He seems like a decent man despite his eccentricity.

[shinta|hikari]

Because he wants to, and actually can, sleep around. Marriage is full of responsibilities he would never want.

[Kraco]

Because he wants to, and actually can, sleep around. Marriage is full of responsibilities he would never want.

He's been doing a remarkably thorough job of looking after people he's responsible for, during these episodes, for a man who, according to your analysis, would hit the road after he has knocked up a woman, leaving the poor new mother to deal with the social stigma of a bastard child and the burden of proving for a child alone.

I think not. He's scienfically lazy and wants to live an easy life, but he's a man enough to bear the consequences of his actions and see things through. There's no way Yatori would remain his friend otherwise.

[shinta|hikari]

Ever heard of contraception? I'm pretty sure the scientific Ikta, who by the way slept with a married woman (so much for being responsible), is smart enough not to sow his seed all over the place.

Ikta is only taking responsibility for the army because he has no other choice. Marriage is generally something you do by choice.

[Kraco]

Ever heard of contraception? I'm pretty sure the scientific Ikta, who by the way slept with a married woman (so much for being responsible), is smart enough not to sow his seed all over the place.

For these people it must be something like placing a bat wing under the pillow. After all, they don't even know what science is. I'm fairly sure Ikta and his lost scientific brethren weren't studying such a field either. But yeah, he could be taking care of it and with his wits he should, but accidents happen.


Ikta is only taking responsibility for the army because he has no other choice. Marriage is generally something you do by choice.

Back in the day if you made a woman pregnant, you were supposed to take responsibility and marry her, whether you liked it or not. Under normal circumstances for a woman the choice was made by her parents anyway. That's why the suitor had to ask the father for the daughter's hand. If the father didn't agree and wouldn't budge, then that's it.

[shinta|hikari]

Let me rephrase myself then. Ikta would never willingly get married.

And now, this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_condoms#Renaissance).

[David75]

I was also going to react to the birth control part.
Mankind did learn breeding and understood the process quite early in its societal evolution. Sure they didn't know the minute details we have now, but since the act and fluid exchange are fairly easy to study, the causes and effects were easy to identify too.

Back to Ikta:
His lazy attitude and playboy character would not go too well with mariage. I do not see him marying to have a cover either.
It's possible Yattori does not love him in a romantic way, or/and she can't marry him because Ikta is not worth it with regard to the Igsem familly criterion.

[Buffalobiian]

I highly doubt the effectiveness of early condoms in birth control. It would probably be similar to withdrawal.

I think Ikta would become worthy of being integrated into the Igsem family. The narration suggest he turns into a big shot later.

[David75]

Donkey bowels were used by romans. Basic, but probably effective.
The narration also feels nostalgic, as if it is not a happy ending.

[KrayZ33]

Not sure how peeps could predict ww1-howitzer appearing. not sure how they were supposed to help either, if Air Mortars are a thing, I'm pretty sure they could have the same effect than these things, which might have a bigger punch and range... but why not use 100 mortars instead of super hightech new weapons that might fall into enemy hands because they are on enemy territory right now and all that.

Basically what I'm saying is, what did they do, what mortars couldn't have done? I doubt they try to invade and conquer without siege weapons or basically anything that can shoot in an arc?

[shinta|hikari]

1801

Supposedly, the regular mortars lack the range and power.

I predicted the cannons through the process of elimination.

[Kraco]

Like I said earlier, it's pretty obvious the foreign military advisor is mainly interested in testing the new weapons and tactics. Why wouldn't he be? This is the best opportunity and Kioka has no specific goals there, I reckon, other than to cause any damage to the Empire. So, even if they were defeated, it would still be a successful mission, as long as the sleepless dude survives, of course. The theocracy might think otherwise, but as far as I can judge the progress of the invasion, the theocracy isn't really up to the task anyway.

[KrayZ33]

Meh, I don't like that explanation, that would mean the Outriders went and trained to ride through a wall of fire that is about ~1km deep or something.

Well, I had some problems understanding how they had delayed the forces for that long anyway.. the scope and size of the fire and forest was always unclear to me. How do they keep a burning forest burning and once everything is burned how do they set fire to it again?
The only way I can think of is:

You start a fire ~2km behind the entrance of the forest, then move back 2km and start a new one once the old one burned out and so on and so forth. But they fought with air guns when they were about to set fire again... which means they have scouts close to their new "fire starting point" and what exactly is stopping ~200 riders to run through them? Their already meager numbers must be stretched thin, otherwise they couldn't keep that wall going.

[shinta|hikari]

I think there was a barricade right after the burning forest fire. So if the riders run through the forest, they are stopped by the barricade and get caught between a forest fire and enemy fire.

That's why the cannons were essential. With the barricade gone, the only problem becomes the burning forest, which they managed to overcome by following directions sent by the balloon about where it is safe to run through. Like you said, Ikta's forces are spread thin, so the fire isn't that comprehensive.

That's just my interpretation though. I watched this while drunk so I'm hazy on the details.

[Kraco]

Episode 13 Final - HS



-- - - - - -- --





Bluffs aren't bad either. The more the enemy strategist thought he's an indispensable hero destined to save his country and the oppressed people of other, lesser countries, the less he could afford to let himself get killed, especially during this sort of mission that's not even about directly defending his home country. He was the kind of dude who started to hesitate once things didn't anymore go according to his plans or even his contingency plans. Like somebody once said, during a fight the worst thing isn't a wrong decision but no decision at all. Ikta's bet on forcing the Sleepless into a situation where he would need to make a decision was crafty, as that opened the path for the possibility he would make the wrong decision (from Kioka's pov).

It's nice the princess isn't a useless extra character. She's actually a super radical. Her own means aren't super large, but she's willing to choose a really long road.

This was quite a smooth ending for the series, making this a far more wholesome ad for the original novels than some other shows ending at a more random point.

[shinta|hikari]

Amazing.

Lelouch got so owned!

To spoil a bit about the LN, which isn't really spoiling since the show has gone past it, the scene between the princess and Ikta and about losing the war happened right after Ikta saved the princess from the kidnappers in the first arc (yes, the one with the awesome post-Igsem-zerker-massacre scene). They moved it to the end of the series, which I believe is a brilliant decision to round everything up.

Ikta and Yatori are clearly in love with each other. Both of them are just too broken to realize that. Oh well, loli princess, who won't be loli in a few years, is good too.

[NeoCybercoin]

Not sure if they are in love with each other or just love each other. Big difference.

[Kraco]

I don't know why they should be "too broken". What's broken about them? Yatori is a proud noble with the skills of a sword saint. Ikta is a proud... womaniser with the mind of a genius. Nothing in their behavior suggests they are broken in any significant way.

[shinta|hikari]

They hardly behave like normal humans do. I used the term broken as a relative adjective to describe that. It isn't necessarily a negative thing, but their mindsets certainly don't belong to the majority or accepted normalcy.

Yatori was brainwashed to be an Igsem heir from childhood, so much so that she would willingly kill Ikta (or so she says) at the cost of tossing away her self.

Ikta is so obsessed with being lazy because his father died doing his best to become a hero. His flightiness and apparent lack of desire to take on responsibilities and ties also stem from that.

They aren't exactly psychologically normal. If not for these issues, I'm pretty sure they'd be shacking up already. I mean come on, look at all their scenes together. They are closer than most spouses and certainly see each other as desirable. They even enjoy physical contact. They just have a barrier they can't cross because of the reasons I stated.

They are so valuable to each other that neither is willing to risk drastically changing the nature of their relationship and destroy that.

[Kraco]

So far those things are only just talk. We don't know if it really happened. I'm sure Yatori could kill Ikta if Ikta became a wicked criminal (not a political criminal, but a real, concrete criminal). But if somebody simply told her to slay Ikta for some ambiguous reason that would obviously be politically motivated... Nah, I don't believe it before I see it.

Ikta keeps preaching about laziness, but in reality he has worked harder to produce real results than any other imperial officer so far, of the ones we have seen at least. He's a realist instead of an idealist. That's not being broken.

If there indeed is something broken about them, it's not sharing the same bed, like you said. Yatori is a bishoujo, and I guess Ikta isn't bad looking either, and they don't hate each other, so... Yeah.

[KrayZ33]

The negotiation was horrible to watch.

If Ikta can play dirty, so can he. Felt like Ikta won because he had to win.

[shinta|hikari]

But he doesn't play dirty because that's his personality. He wants to win in style and is like pride incarnate. Stooping to Ikta's level just to win a single battle will likely weigh him down more in the long run than letting a cheater get a win.

@Kraco - Even if they are only words, they aren't words a normal person would say to the closest peron in their life. The very fact that she could even say those words make her broken.

Ikta wasn't lazy before. He only became "lazy" after his father died. It broke him. Instead of seeing wonder in the world as a scientist, he turned into a cynic who scolds royalty for being... royalty.

To clarify, they aren't necessarily too broken to fix. I just believe they aren't as normal compared to Torway and the gang.

[KrayZ33]

If he were honor and pride incarnate, he wouldn't have given in to Ikta.

[shinta|hikari]

Pride can be placed in many things. He decided to uphold his own principles over winning a skirmish that won't decide the war. He held more pride in his way of doing things over winning a small battle in the bigger picture.

A good analogy would be when playing a multiplayer game you are really good at and you get cheated, would you cheat as well just to beat that player when you can just beat him fairly next time? Cheating just to get even sounds more petty than prideful. Pride (taken in a positive sense) is different from having a big ego after all. Both commonly coincide but are not always the same thing.

[KrayZ33]

What he's doing though is leaving the game because the other player cheated, he didn't even try to fight back. How will his men see him now? The commander backs out because he's afraid of a "ghost sniper". Not something a man with pride would do, which is why I said he wouldn't have given in to Ikta when he was truely pride incarnate.

Not to mention that he's on a horse and he could scream "charge" and start attacking with his men (apparently, all you have to do is lower your flag, wtf lol bullshit), reducing the possiblity to die even further because hitting a moving target on horseback pretty difficult I guess.

He backed out because he has no pride at all and is afraid.


A good analogy would be when playing a multiplayer game you are really good at and you get cheated, would you cheat as well just to beat that player when you can just beat him fairly next time? Cheating just to get even sounds more petty than prideful. Pride (taken in a positive sense) is different from having a big ego after all. Both commonly coincide but are not always the same thing.

What this situation came close to is:

Player A suggest we'll build up ressources and decide a 30 min match with a single match @ the middle of the map, the one who wins this will be the winner of the whole fight.
Player B aggrees and wants to meet Player A @ the middle of the map
Player A however decided to ignore his own proposed agreement and destroys Player B base in the meantime and tells B to leave the match or he'll lose the rest of the base, even though he has about 1/5 of the manpower of B.
Player B stays in the middle of the map and does nothing, or leaves the match because they had an "agreement".


"very scientific" *cringes*

[shinta|hikari]

You keep forgetting that he wants to win with style. He's not the type to go berserk and send his men into meaningless deaths. That's part of his principles, where his pride lies.

It seems we have a different definition and understanding of pride, both of which are valid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride), so let's just agree to disagree. I've had my fill of meaningless arguments recently.

[KrayZ33]

How are their deaths meaningless, they outnumber them 5:1, even without the advantage of horseback and weapons. Them allowing to retreat will cost more Kioka (or whatever his country was called) lives than this little skrimish.

The battle itself had so many problems too, how the heck did Yatori even flank them from behind? On horseback, on a small cliffside like that? I expected so much more from this show but it's very, very shallow. And none of the horsemen stepped on the soldiers hiding beneath the straw? Even though they were like 30 of them several lines deep in? "lucky"...or maybe, if we use internet and this show's memes, "it's science"
Ikta surviving his encounter with the Kioka soldier because "someone" (who knows who in a mess like this) screamed "cease combat" was silly too.

[shinta|hikari]

Because Ikta bluffed that he had air rifle people placed strategically, unlike unsleeping dude who didn't do that prep. That means his forces will lose a lot more people than they were ever supposed to. Based on his discussion with Ikta, he's the type to take care of his men and doesn't want them dying if it can be avoided. In fact, he didn't want to fight in the first place and just wanted the enemy to surrender.

His home country losing more than what was at stake in that face off is not determined at this point. Since he can safely go home instead of possibly getting shot, he can come up with new strategies to make up for the loss.

What you have to consider is that Ikta and the others were desperate and had their backs against the wall. To unsleeping dude, this was just one fight among many, many to come in order to realize his ideals. The 10 percent risk wasn't worth it to him.

I didn't really think about the battle too much so no comments there.

[KrayZ33]

It's probably just me being absolutely disappointed in the battle that I see their conversation as such a big problem.

As for the airrifle units. I'm pretty sure he should've known that there aren't more than a handful at most. He knew about Ikta's manpower, he should know that he can't spare 80% of his forces if they want to maintain the firewall and so on.

[shinta|hikari]

He knew the risk was low, which he somehow pinned down at 10 percent. His caution is understandable. He, who was so used to controlling the battle completely the entire time, suddenly got surprised consecutively by the man he was negotiating with. A threat coming from such an existence wasn't something he could take lightly. What if that 10 percent is another of Ikta's surprises?

Where unsleeping dude lost in this fight isn't tactics. It's in profiling. Ikta profiled him from the start, trying to understand how he thinks, and then used it against him. This dude was way too arrogant in his abilities and forces that he didn't think about analyzing the commander on the other side, at least not as much as Ikta did to him.

[KrayZ33]

If he's not willing to take risks like that, he's a failure as a commander and should resign immediatly.
He didn't take the risk because his own life was in "danger", in which case I have to wonder why he even risks it by going to the frontline in the first place.

His whole presence was basically meaningless. A 9:1 chance of winning and you don't take it? That basically a declaration that you actually don't really want to win and you do this for fun and thus has absolutely no meaning to you, the soldiers who died so far died without purpose.. and their friends must hate that commander now.

[shinta|hikari]

I disagree. Dying there is a gigantic loss to his country. So is his resignation. He's a genius and a hero. It just so happened another genius and hero of his level or even greater existed on the other side.

As for going to the front lines, I imagine it's to better grasp the battle situation. Ikta does it too.

[Kraco]

They weren't fighting for Kioka there. Why the hell should he risk anything more than is leisurely possible? They were only a unit sent by their home country to assist the theocracy in their offense. For Kioka it was basically nothing but a distraction and something that could be used to weaken the Empire with any luck. For all we know Sleepless had been ordered by his superiors not to risk too much and absolutely come back with new information, experience, and weapon test results. If he had died there, it would have been a big loss for Kioka for absolutely no gain whatsoever.

You completely miss the big picture here, KrayZ.

[KrayZ33]

The anime didn't show it that way properly though. Not my fault.

It would've given the scene so much more meaning if they showed it like that, but they didn't. They also sent several elite units, special ops even... it's not like this doesn't mean anything to them. And saying they wanted field data, test results and so on is just a claim you made up as far as I can tell. Not sure if any of that has been mentioned.

Not sure why you think it's not important that the army gets through though, the empire and Kioka are at war. It's in their best interest that they succeed and deal as much damage as possible. It's actually more correct to assume the officer is there to assure that the alde-whatever-army succeeds...which is why they allow him to use important assets.