They done it again [Archive]

SaSuKeRuLeS

Sat, 12-06-2003, 02:06 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Legendary Nin @ Dec 6 2003, 01:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> When I seen episode 62,I was like wtf when I seen his curse seal.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/526960/cage.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/526960/cage2.JPG

They should have kept it like the manga,there making too many changes in the anime. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Sorry to correct you and all but it was ep. 61. I wish ep. 62 was out im hungery for more kick ass anime damn it. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/wink.gif

Insomniac

Sat, 12-06-2003, 03:24 AM

any changes they make in the manga to anime translation are simply for 2 reasons

1. They have had time to think about whats best and made the decision to add to the viewing experience.

2. They had to get the episode past the censors at their particuluar timeslot

Chi Chi

Sat, 12-06-2003, 04:29 AM

it looks ugly. It would have been better as the old swastika. It would have shown how cruel the Hyuga was, just like Hitler they mark people who they feel are inferior to control them. (Hitler putting the J on the Jew Pasports.) Of course, for the victims of Hitler and the Jews it would be a bad thing.

Legendary Nin

Sat, 12-06-2003, 05:42 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Geist @ Dec 6 2003, 02:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> At least they should've made it look more flashy. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>They should have kept it like the manga,there making too many changes in the anime. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Like? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Such as Gates,leaving out scenes in the anime,adding scenes that don't progress the story.I can't name everything,bt there has been noticiable changes.

newport

Sat, 12-06-2003, 05:56 AM

only thing i don't like is they made.....neji's kaiten chakra green...and his hakke field green......and neji would look more vicious if they cornrolled or platted his hair http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/cool.gif ,and in some scenes, they show neji with just blank eyes,they don't show the inner eye line part.....but i'm just nickpicking

KakashiSensei

Sat, 12-06-2003, 06:14 AM

The way i see it is that the mainstream japanese audience might be a bit more sensitive to that kind of thing since they did side with germany in WW2 it might be a sore point. So to have a swaztika on kids head who is viewed as inferior b/c of his birth and nothing else then yeah it was good they changed. To many things mirroring a huge tragedy.

rleland

Sat, 12-06-2003, 08:44 AM

i say they should have kept it

people have made movies with people with all sorts of tattoos on their bodies before, and this isn't even a bad tattoo, it just looks like one

i'm assuming it's the reason why they changed it, but i think it's stupid (no offense of course ^^) assuming that they were right in changing it.. i think they were being excessively carefull. i say some guy involved in drawing the anime said "this seems like a bad idea" and the rest just sort of agreed to not seem like nazis or something..maybe not exactly like that but seriously i think thats sort of how it happened

seriously.. people make offensive stuff all the time... a symbol which isn't even *really* an offensive symbol (only looks like one) wouldn't probably upset too many people.. especially since the whole symbol thing is portrayed as being evil people wont mind.. i'd make some comparison here to offensive american stereotypes used in movies alot without any supposedly dire consequences... but i'd just get flamed.

i think they're just being overly carefull about how people might react. i dont think they've actually polled people about it or anything...

but whatever.. who knows.. maybe the manga got alot of hatemail about just that (it can be as violent as it wants but it *can't* have a symbol which vaguely reminds people of something offensive)

84K4

Sat, 12-06-2003, 08:45 AM

that is not a swastika it's the wrong way this is the indian sing for the rising sun it's a good sing. Hitler fliped it arond, so the swastika can be interpreted as the black sun and annialation.

rleland

Sat, 12-06-2003, 08:53 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (84K4 @ Dec 6 2003, 07:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> that is not a swastika it's the wrong way this is the indian sing for the rising sun it's a good sing. Hitler fliped it arond, so the swastika can be interpreted as the black sun and annialation. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
i dont think anyone said it was a swastika
the point is it LOOKS like one and it'd remind people of it

i still think they're being too sensitive

Legendary Nin

Sat, 12-06-2003, 10:43 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (84K4 @ Dec 6 2003, 08:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> that is not a swastika it's the wrong way this is the indian sing for the rising sun it's a good sing. Hitler fliped it arond, so the swastika can be interpreted as the black sun and annialation. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Hindu.I remember a Hindu woman had one of thise symbols in a drawing and everyone called it a swatica.Even when she said it wasnt,people still hated it.Oh well...

hitokage26

Sat, 12-06-2003, 12:41 PM

But the thing is, the artists did not draw it as a Nazi swastika, it's same thing as that one pokemon card a while back: http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Simpsons/pokemon1.jpg
It's the manji symbol and stands for good fortune, life, or hope and is the reverse image of the Nazi swastika

Legendary Nin

Sat, 12-06-2003, 01:45 PM

When I seen episode 62,I was like wtf when I seen his curse seal.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/526960/cage.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/526960/cage2.JPG

They should have kept it like the manga,there making too many changes in the anime.

SaSuKeRuLeS

Sat, 12-06-2003, 01:47 PM

Maybe because it kinda of looks like a swastika and some people could have got offended http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif

RaZzy

Sat, 12-06-2003, 01:58 PM

yeah well too bad... i think it still looks ok
and im glad they changed it, cuz it really looks like a nazi sign.. they should have come up with something different (the manga)

Insomniac

Sun, 12-07-2003, 03:37 AM

the point is its changed and theres nothing we can do about it http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif
it didnt take away from the viewing experience for those who were seeing it for the first time did it? its only because we're used to seeing it one way and it changed to another. I'd like to see it while it was being manipulated to hurt the branch family (wonder if it would pulse or glow or something)
and if i'm not correct they added a few small scenes to explain why Neji's father was punished by Hinatas father - that helped clear things up didnt it?

Baka-chan

Sun, 12-07-2003, 05:54 AM

cursed seals shouldn't look flashy http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mf_laughbounce2.gif but they probably could have put more effort into it. and maybe they are being a little too "touchy" with the manga seal, but i'm sorta glad they changed it. i get automatically pissed when i see a swastika (sp), or anything that resembles it http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/blink.gif

hitokage26

Sun, 12-07-2003, 06:56 AM

Ok, perhaps a swastika or manji symbol wasnt the best thing to use for the anime, but for goodness sake, why that lame X? Of the million "cool" looking symbols, they chose the lamest green X in the world....

PSJ

Sun, 12-07-2003, 07:31 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SaSuKeRuLeS @ Dec 6 2003, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Maybe because it kinda of looks like a swastika and some people could have got offended http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
by what a swastika is a sign of peace, of course some ppl would have confused it with a hitler sign but they are just stupid. i dont like the look of the changed seal they should have kept the swastika in it. even though i dont understand why there is a sign of peace in a cursed seal but oh well.

Uberbaka

Sun, 12-07-2003, 09:56 AM

Fine they changed it, but atleast they could have put more effort into it? I think it just looks drawn on his forehead with paintshop... (look at the pics, they even flipped the little things on the sides)

Nine Tailed Demon

Sun, 12-07-2003, 10:16 AM

In the manga, the sealed looked like the Nazi sign. I heard that it's Neji backwards(in japanese).

It's better to look like that in the anime because when it comes to america no one will be offended...

Legendary Nin

Sun, 12-07-2003, 11:20 AM

If a Pokemon card has it,then there should be no reason for the animators of Naruto to change it.They swear in Naruto,show older themes.Pokemon doesn' swear,and Nurse Joy is about as adult as it gets.If that can slide in Pokemon,then it could definitly slide by in Naruto.

High Wind

Sun, 12-07-2003, 01:25 PM

Plus, if they were trying to relate it to Hitler (which i doubt) it would fit. I mean Hitler was prejudice to Jewish people because he saw them as inferiors but the Jewish people can't help being Jewish, they're born into it. Much like Neji being born into the Branch family you can't change who you are

Did that make sense? http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/huh.gif Sorry i have a tendency to babble

Yakuza

Mon, 12-08-2003, 02:06 AM

yeah, calling it a swastika in this instance wouldn't be correct. The Japanese use of the symbol is called a Manji, which has no direct translation other than the symbol itself. The nazi swastika is basically a reverse manji at a 45° angle.

What is so unforunate about this is that the Manji (or swastika) has been recorded through uman history for the last 3000 years, and only when one madman takes it and corrupts it for his own use does it become a symbol of evil and hatred for the rest of time. Nobody outside of countries that still use the Manji symbol will recognize it for what it really is.

Elessar

Mon, 12-08-2003, 02:56 AM

It's a seal of oppression that resembles a seal of oppression.

But people can't deal with history, so to not remind them it's blanked out everywhere it occurs.

Uchuu no Recca

Mon, 12-08-2003, 04:59 AM

Wow I think I learned something here, if you guys are truthfull...then truly thanks for todays lesson in signs and what not!

ALL I can say is PEACE!!!

Yakuza

Mon, 12-08-2003, 06:20 AM

*sigh*, the Swastika was never originally a symbol of evil. Its been used in Japan, Tibet, and a number of other places for centuries as a sign to either seal in evil, or keep it away. Only after Hitler stole the symbol and corrupted it for his own use did it become the symbol of evil, and unfortunatly, 99% of humans today are too ignorant to know this.

So, it would seem logical, at this point to assume that the cursed seal on Neji's forhead is supposed to be an original swastika, meant to seal in the great evil within him, or something to that effect.

It was changed for for the wider audience of television because if they ever licensed the series in the US or Europe, it would be immediately banned, censored and taken off the air. People would become confused whether the show was trying to promote nazism and facism, and they would be offended and outraged that "something as harmless as a cartoon would defile their children's minds with such a horrible and malicious symbol", etc etc. The Anime industry as a whole would suffer from it. So, they changed it from a swastika to an X.

How do I know these things? Because I've worked for various game companies as a QA tester, and I've been required to play through entire games multiple times, looking for anything that might be construed specifically as a swastika to people. I've had to recommend entire scenes be taking out of games because one of the wall textures as a shape that resembles that most hated of symbols.

So there's your answer. People are ignorant, they equate the swastika immediatly with Nazism, and so the mark on Neji's forehead is changed.

WOW, I wrote a lot.

TheAwesomeChow

Mon, 12-08-2003, 09:39 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Dec 6 2003, 02:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> any changes they make in the manga to anime translation are simply for 2 reasons

1. They have had time to think about whats best and made the decision to add to the viewing experience.

2. They had to get the episode past the censors at their particuluar timeslot </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
really how strict are censors in japan though? i wouldn't know, but I do know that you can buy used panties out of vending machines. says a little something about censorship in a culture.

boomorman

Mon, 12-08-2003, 10:07 AM

Wow the manga drawing is so much worse then the Anime drawing. I would think without having to use color or make nearly as many pictures they could spend more time on detail and angles.

Legendary Nin

Mon, 12-08-2003, 10:13 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheAwesomeChow @ Dec 8 2003, 09:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
really how strict are censors in japan though? i wouldn't know, but I do know that you can buy used panties out of vending machines. says a little something about censorship in a culture. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Same with beer and Kakashi's favorite ADULT MANGA.

Hyuga Koji

Mon, 12-08-2003, 10:15 AM

Naruto has been getting some hard looks about possibly bringing it to the states

Even though this is a manji symbol enough people could believe it was a nazist symbol and booyah the series gets a lot of press it doesn't need and Bandai is out a ton of cash.

Plus any Japanese company would want to stay far far away from any possible association with Nazism they'll censor what can cause them serious damage.

That whole era is a big black eye they don't want to rub salt in.

RaZzy

Mon, 12-08-2003, 10:55 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (boomorman @ Dec 8 2003, 09:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Wow the manga drawing is so much worse then the Anime drawing. I would think without having to use color or make nearly as many pictures they could spend more time on detail and angles. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
uhm... it's hand drawn... the other one is with a computer,but still your a little bit right

sangai

Mon, 12-08-2003, 11:14 AM

well for one calling it a swastika isn't helpin considering the fact that its not a swastika it has some other name, whichi i think was mentioned.

the pokemon card that you are refering to actually got alot of hassle and bad remarks and complaints and wizards of the coast ended up removing the card for a short while because of the symbol, and even issued a public apology about the card end explained what the symbol meant.

the new -X- symbol is lame the original symbol had more meaning it was to me, well it had more meaning.

as mentioned by so many other people the symbol is used by many different countrys the american indains/well 2 of the tribes,the chinese the japanese, budhist abd tibetans

i think althoughs outway the one bad mark hitler made and they all are a symbol of good

rleland

Tue, 12-09-2003, 05:16 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheAwesomeChow @ Dec 8 2003, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Insomniac @ Dec 6 2003, 02:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> any changes they make in the manga to anime translation are simply for 2 reasons

1. They have had time to think about whats best and made the decision to add to the viewing experience.

2. They had to get the episode past the censors at their particuluar timeslot </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
really how strict are censors in japan though? i wouldn't know, but I do know that you can buy used panties out of vending machines. says a little something about censorship in a culture. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
and in alot of countries people of questionable age can easily get a hold of porn in the stores, but that doesn't mean they have porn in cartoons

Assertn

Tue, 12-09-2003, 06:46 AM

but.....i dont think the symbol on neji's head specifically is a swatzika, since its been flipped. Although im not using this as a defense for keeping the original, cause i know for a FACT that it would still get just about as many complaints as it would if it wasn't flipped

Yakuza

Tue, 12-09-2003, 07:30 AM

Again, it doesn't matter if its a Manji or a swastika, the fact is that 99% of the world population, especially americans, will instantly see it as a swastika, because they're too damned ignorant to know it as anything else. It doesn't matter if its not at a 45 degree angle or what, an american sees a manji, its gonna become a swastika.

supereyebrowplatonic

Wed, 12-10-2003, 02:14 AM

http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif I GUESS WHAT THEY SAY IS TRUE, YOU ADD 20 POUNDS ON TV http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

PoDy

Wed, 12-10-2003, 07:29 AM

lol why not make a smal bird in a cage and no one wuld have been offended and we wuldent have had this conversation.

Simple

But they dident and we cant do anything about it.

rleland

Wed, 12-10-2003, 08:35 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PoDy @ Dec 10 2003, 06:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> why not make a smal bird in a cage </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
cause it would probably be a pain in the ass for the drawers to keep drawing a small bird in a cage :X

and besides it wouldn't be a symbol anymore! it'd be a drawing of a bird in a cage ...
one less line for neji

neji: "it symbolizes a bird in a cage, trapped for life!"
naruto: "uh. duh? it is a drawing of a bird in a cage?"
neji: "what? oh shit you're right. i think i smoked too much weed. let's just get on with kicking my ass"

edit: sorry i think i smoked too much weed too

Geist

Wed, 12-10-2003, 11:00 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Baka-chan @ Dec 7 2003, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> cursed seals shouldn't look flashy http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/mf_laughbounce2.gif but they probably could have put more effort into it. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Yes, it should look flashy. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/tongue.gif
And it's not a cursed seal it's just a seal.

MemnochTheCaT

Wed, 12-10-2003, 11:02 AM

I'm an American, Texan even http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/smile.gif I don't see a swastika there though. Even if it were, what would be the point of being offended? At least that's my view of it. Many of the things the Nazis perpetrated on humanity from 1933-1945 were absolutely reprehensible and nearly inconcievable. But is that evil captured in a symbol? NO. PEOPLE are responsible for their actions, not pictures or symbols or any other inert object.

Seems a very modern way of looking at things to be offended by practically everything, and responsible for nothing. People are quick to point the finger at Hitler in WW2, but they forget the millions of other villians big and small ALSO responsbile for the genocide, war, torture, and destruction.

The simple christian cross has been used by many horrible leaders who used murder and evil to further their own means. Does this mean that the cross is a bad symbol? Of course not, the evil done by men cannot be captured by a symbol.

I think people are generally too sensitive to these things, without putting them into proper context. The 'swastika' seen in Neji's seal, of course actually being a Manji .. has absolutely nothing to do with Nazism whatsoever. But because people react so blindly to it, it is edited (poorly). This is a shame, but a small one.

The BIG shame, is that most of the people who are so offended by symbols, are not even letting themselves think about why they feel that way. The base reaction serves to overly simplify and dilute important issues that could be important to learn about. Think about it, we learn plenty in school about how terrible the Nazis were and that they used the Swastika and propoganda. But how much do most people know about the roots of their foul organization, the impetus behind their rise? It is said that those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. By focusing on a symbol rather than reality, we all lose. http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/sad.gif

Mugi^2

Thu, 12-11-2003, 09:41 AM

Its all about political correctness http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif
Yeah so 99.9% of the population doesn't care about something... BUT if the 0.1% of it does then all hell can let loose.
Recently a US state(forget which one) banned the use of Master/Slave on hard-drives(and other PC components) because they were afraid ppl would get offended... I mean wtf?
Now I know that's not a swastika... personally they should have USED the swastika to further symbolize the cruelty of the cursed seal... but others might not see it that way.
Always remember... A reversed "peace" sign is the equivalent of the "finger" in england =P

cheez121

Sat, 12-13-2003, 08:28 AM

http://gameboard2002.hypermart.net/uploads/nejixbox.gif

http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif

rleland

Sat, 12-13-2003, 08:56 AM

you know what cheez? i think you're onto something
it's all brainwashing!

Legendary Nin

Sat, 12-13-2003, 09:10 AM

^^^LOL....Neijis Xbox propaganda at its finest.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Recently a US state(forget which one) banned the use of Master/Slave on hard-drives(and other PC components) because they were afraid ppl would get offended... I mean wtf? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

They didn't ban it,it was too ridiculous.So a black male,who wasn't even a SLAVE,complains about it.Slavery doesn't even affect him to begin with.Second,its not even a racial issue,it's a hardrive,a piece of electronic hardware with a name that does not suggest anywhere "black controlled by white".That's like a jewish person complaing about Medal Of Honor.

Assertn

Sat, 12-13-2003, 10:20 AM

haha, looks like another one's been pwned by microsoft http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif

SaSuKeRuLeS

Sun, 12-14-2003, 02:48 AM

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AssertnFailure @ Dec 13 2003, 10:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> haha, looks like another one's been pwned by microsoft http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/laugh.gif </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
sorry but were you trying to say owned i mean too many times have i seen people write pwned instead of owned. I dont mean to be rude or anything but is there a secret meaning to it? http://www.gotwoot.net/forum/html/emoticons/dry.gif