Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?

[Shadow Skill]

Man, I realize he was overconfident, but Apollo was a dipshit to agree to literally anything if he lost.

I thought maybe Hestia would take the two girls for her family. Nope. Gimmie yo house. All your people are gone. Get the fuck out of my city.

In the LN I think she (Hestia) explains that Apollo would not have any compassion for her if she had lost and thathe would either demand she leave this world or the city. Hermes did just declare war basically on her familia. The stakes are high in the war games. Despite the Misnomer of "Games" being in the War Games, they are anything but a game as death can be involved.

The anime did not touch or even hint at the information in the LN. This is why so many are becoming confused.

[Munsu]

That's enough talk about the LN, at least wait until the next episode to see what is revealed and what isn't.

[Shadow Skill]

That's enough talk about the LN, at least wait until the next episode to see what is revealed and what isn't.

Next episode is the start of the next Arc/LN7.

The War Games left a lot of information out. Now with that Arc over, they will not be touching on that information at all. Next Arc starting. They'd have to start it now in order to finish it in the next 8 episodes.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm guessing you meant Apollo.

[Kraco]

Episode 5

-- - - - -


It feels like nothing happened in this episode. Still, quite a price for a single dagger. Although I don't remember any prices of common items to judge if 200M of their currency is a lot or not. Maybe it's the same value as yen for the lazy Japanese audience, so it might be quite a lot for a tiny guild.

[KrayZ33]

I remember from Season one, during Bell's date with the half elf, it was shown that the cost of Swords/Daggers from new and young Blacksmiths is somewhere in the lower 4 digits.
The episode itself was super low budget... so many reused scenes and shots.

His 200M Valis blade was judged for 30 Valis inside by the owner of a pawn shop (remember, it's power scales with the power of the one wielding it, of which he had no knowledge of obviously... meaning a dull blade or the metal itself is only worth that much.)

edit: Episode 4 - the made 26.000 Valis in a day hunting inside the dungeon (when he was lvl 1). It was also mentioned that normally, only 5 lvl 1 adventurers get around that much. Damn, the english Dub is amazing :D, Lili sounds cool. (Bell too)

https://youtu.be/heiWF8LeaiA?t=1124

[Shadow Skill]

e
I'm guessing you meant Apollo.

Yes! LOL I never noticed my mistake. Editing it now.

[DarthEnderX]

I do love me some base building. Making me want to play more Dragon Quest Builders.

[KrayZ33]

Episode 6


---------------------------------------------------------------

Do we get a twitter outrage about women raping men now?
It'd only be fair.

[Shadow Skill]

Episode 6


---------------------------------------------------------------

Do we get a twitter outrage about women raping men now?
It'd only be fair.

LOL! Doubt it and he was able to escape, so "Attempted" would be more accurate.

[shinta|hikari]

The thing is, men are conditioned not to ever complain about receiving sexual abuse, so even if they can relate or are outraged, they won't say a thing.

[KrayZ33]

LOL! Doubt it and he was able to escape, so "Attempted" would be more accurate.

Hermes didn't escape.
I wouldn't be suprised to hear something among the lines of "Danmachi portrays women as evil. Yada yada. etc. etc. patriarchy yada yada victimized even though the are the culprit yada yada"

[MFauli]

Aaand dropped.

No plot, just accidential sexy scenes with an obliviozs shouta hero.

Its sad what this has become. The dungeon exploring in s1 was so much fun. Oh well.

[shinta|hikari]

Accidental sexy scenes and an oblivious young teen hero has always been in Danmachi. Remember the completely superfluous fanservice river bathing scene in season 1?

I agree with David that your tastes may have simply grown away from anime and the stuff that normally comes with it (i.e. fanservice, asexual heroes, illogical powerups, etc.). Anime in itself didn't change as drastically as you seem to think.

[MFauli]

S1 had much more plot, though. The dungeon is what made this anime - hence the title ��*♀️

I dont think its my taste thats changed so much as its more that im less willing to put up with bs. I dropped Cheat Magician, UchiMusume and now this. In the past Id force myself to finish these. Now I dont. Feels good.

And its not that bad. Im about to watch Gundam from the beginning. I have Daughter of Twenty faces waiting for me. And I wanna rewatch Clannad After Story. Anime enough. Still, its important to voice criticism to newer anime. I feel especially disappointed because this season looked so promising. Now its Dr Stone, Vinland Saga and for shits and giggles Milf Isekai. Maybe Ill take a look at anichart to see if next season is better :o

[shinta|hikari]

Nowadays, I just don't focus too much on the show that I'm watching so I can mentally skip the fanservice and other nonsense. That's why I prefer reading compared to watching because I can simply skip over text that I don't wanna read without missing anything.

[Kraco]

This felt like a pretty empty episode, but all in all I don't have super high expectations for this series. Ais's series, the Sword Oratoria, is the one with more story, at this point, it seems. Perhaps later it will be different. I haven't read the novels, so I don't know.

I considered Bell's interaction and conversation with the fox girl quite nice, aside from running away without a word at the end. I though the dude was past fleeing from trouble already.

[Buffalobiian]

This is an acceptable episode of Is it wrong to try to pick up girls in a Dungeon Red Light District?.

It's a set up episode. He didn't have words for fox-girl here, but he'll be back to rescue her and prove she's worthy of a hero like anyone else. Her body may not be pure, but her heart is.

Hermes getting raped should rightly start an outrage, but it won't.

Shinta, is "Little Five-Incher" really the translation? I thought that was hilarious given the context, but I don't know if it's an accurate translation. Timestamp is ~19:25 where Bell gives the title of the story they were discussing.

[shinta|hikari]

It's the name (Issen Douji) of the hero in the story and shouldn't be translated. I don't know if the attempted translation is accurate because there is no kanji, but judging from the sound only, it is incorrect.

[DarthEnderX]

Bell still shoulda had some words of encouragement. Lettin' the girl kink-shame herself like that.

"I'm a prostitute, not a princess, I don't deserve to be saved." Girl, you just trying to put yourself through college, don't be all down on yourself!

[Kraco]

Bell still shoulda had some words of encouragement. Lettin' the girl kink-shame herself like that.

"I'm a prostitute, not a princess, I don't deserve to be saved." Girl, you just trying to put yourself through college, don't be all down on yourself!

Yeah. It was quite cruel Bell decided to stay so silent, as that lack of disagreeing, let alone lack of encouragement could only be taken as agreeing with her self-loathing words.

[shinta|hikari]

Remember, Bell is a naive 14 year old boy. He can't be expected to process something he has never faced before instantly.

In the book, he had a lot going on in his mind during that conversation:
1867
1868

[Shadow Skill]

This is the problem with season 2. They are leaving a lot of key information and key dialogue out of the anime.

Hermes was not raped. I can't say why, but he basically wanted the sex with Ishtar. I don't know if they will explain why later on. Basing on how the anime has been neglecting and leaving out key topics and plot points, I am thinking they are won't touch on the topic.

[Kraco]

Hermes was not raped.

I took that scene as a homage to the "ruined for marriage" meme. It's a picture where typically the dude is very distraught the morning after, while the woman is very cool about it. The woman smoking all satisfied isn't uncommon either.

[Shadow Skill]

I took that scene as a homage to the "ruined for marriage" meme. It's a picture where typically the dude is very distraught the morning after, while the woman is very cool about it. The woman smoking all satisfied isn't uncommon either.

He was crying because he gave up secrets, not because they had sex lol.

[Kraco]

Episode 7



- -- -


A level 3 adventurer who pays no attention to what's behind his back in the dungeon. No wonder he's an eternal rookie.

[shinta|hikari]

He IS a rookie.

You have to remember that Bell isn't even 1 year into adventuring, while others have been at it for years or decades. His level 3 status was acquired due to his OP skill Liaris Freese's effect of improving excellia quality and quantity. He doesn't have enough real experience to be any good at this.

[Kraco]

Yet that evil goddess Ishtar sent a dozen people to capture him. A rookie. It's quite flattering but at the same time embarrassing for both sides.

[DarthEnderX]

Well, she sent a dozen, but only one of them is actually doing it for some reason.

[DarthEnderX]

08

---

Toad lady's gotto go!

[Kraco]

Aisha had a nice revenge, in the end: Spilling all the beans. She couldn't directly do too much anymore, but by revealing everything to a non-family member, there's still a chance she can ruin Ishtar's plans. The only weakness is that she revealed it all to a coward, but at least Mikoto was there as well.

[Buffalobiian]

The shota toad rape scene was so damn uncomfortable. Of course Bell couldn't get hard lol.

I hope Aisha gets saved too, since she destroyed the first Killing Stone and all.

[DarthEnderX]

10

---

I really don't understand how gods work in this show...

[Buffalobiian]

Damn right Freya. Having class just makes someone so much hotter.

"Crystalise emotions"? That's great and all, but then he shouldn't be able to have these heroic urges.

And damn Hermes.. talk about having your cake and eating it as well.

[Kraco]

Yeah, Freya does have plenty of elegance. Otherwise she couldn't wear those porn clothes and still look like a proper (and damn hot) goddess. Walking around practically naked yet still command respect isn't something just anyone could do.

I guess Haruhime will join the familia. With Ishtar gone, there's nothing official holding her back. Once again Hestia will be annoyed by having another beautiful lady near Bell, but on the other hand she loves having her tiny familia grow bigger.

[Munsu]

Yeah, Freya does have plenty of elegance. Otherwise she couldn't wear those porn clothes and still look like a proper (and damn hot) goddess. Walking around practically naked yet still command respect isn't something just anyone could do.

I guess Haruhime will join the familia. With Ishtar gone, there's nothing official holding her back. Once again Hestia will be annoyed by having another beautiful lady near Bell, but on the other hand she loves having her tiny familia grow bigger.

I'm not a fan of Haruhime's powers though, but yeah it seems destined that she'll join the hero and her childhood friend. That said, that other familia has friends as well. It's setup for Haruhime to join them though.

And Herme's hard to figure out, it's like he acts to fool even himself.

[KrayZ33]

I kinda dislike the quality of animation in this season. I double checked season one to rule out nostalgia, but the first season really had better and more interesting fighting scenes.
That short bit against the better looking Amazon between Bell and her was pretty cool though.... but man, that fight scene against the big fat toad was horrible.

I wonder if we get to see something epic before this season is over.

[Buffalobiian]

Yeah, Freya does have plenty of elegance. Otherwise she couldn't wear those porn clothes and still look like a proper (and damn hot) goddess. Walking around practically naked yet still command respect isn't something just anyone could do.

It's those heels man. Those clanking heels make all the difference.

[DarthEnderX]

I kinda dislike the quality of animation in this season. I double checked season one to rule out nostalgia, but the first season really had better and more interesting fighting scenes.This series uses all it's sakuga on shots of Hestia bouncing around and being cute.


I guess Haruhime will join the familia.I'd rather they get Aisha.

[Kraco]

I'd rather they get Aisha.

It's kind of hard to see her as compatible with the atmosphere in the Hestia familia. She had her own, personal reasons to disturb things in the Ishtar familia, but otherwise she was the same as the others there, believing the end justifies the means. Hestia familia members try to uphold some basic morals, however.

[Munsu]

This series uses all it's sakuga on shots of Hestia bouncing around and being cute.

I'd rather they get Aisha.

Same here. But would Hestia allow it?

[Buffalobiian]

If Aisha and Little Rookie vouches for it. Hestia is pretty low on numbers and all her members are female anyway besides Bell and Welf.

[Kraco]

Why exactly would you think she would want to join a familia like Hestia's?

[Buffalobiian]

Why exactly would you think she would want to join a familia like Hestia's?

Because they're chums, and because Haruhime is there. I don't think she'd have any particular preferences on which place she joins, if we ever see her again.

[DarthEnderX]

11

---

Aries seems fun.

[Kraco]

Seems like a pointless, nonsense arc. Could something possibly come out of it?

[Buffalobiian]

"Some idiot with a mask let her out."

.................................................. ......................"I'm Ganesha."

Oh god that was great.

[KrayZ33]

Indeed it was.

The rest not so much, but that was funny as hell.

"Now is not the time for whispering, you idiot"
"I AM GANESHAAAAA"

[Buffalobiian]

Runner up were the soldiers being wowwed by sword capable of cutting tomatoes.

Tomatoes.

[Kraco]

Runner up were the soldiers being wowwed by sword capable of cutting tomatoes.

Tomatoes.

No, there was nothing strange about that scene. It was to demonstrate how sharp the blade was to cut tomatoes so cleanly, like a good kitchen knife. If you have cut lots of tomatoes, you know that when a knife starts getting even a bit dull, you will immediately notice it with tomatoes.

[Buffalobiian]

Hahahahahahaha....ah..... yeah, it's been years since I've cut a tomato...

[shinta|hikari]

Regular tomato cutter here. Kraco speaks truth.

[Shadow Skill]

Not sure if this is allowed but for those interested. Adware and Anti-Virus is a must. Just to warn.

-Removed-

As no subs.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm not sure what that is. My browser failed verification so I didn't get very far.

[Shadow Skill]

I'm not sure what that is. My browser failed verification so I didn't get very far.


It is the Dan Machi movie Arrow of Orion. Ignore that. It does not have the subs. It is the movie, just no subs. My bad lol. I should have checked first.

[Kraco]

Episode 12 Final


- --- -



I didn't hate the last ep, even though this short arc was kind of meaningless for the larger plot. Perhaps it's because the ep had relatively much Bell+Ais, which is my favourite shipping pair. Though that being said, the arc itself shipped Bell+Hestia, so there was that sour aftertaste.

[DarthEnderX]

It is the Dan Machi movie Arrow of Orion. Ignore that. It does not have the subs. It is the movie, just no subs. My bad lol. I should have checked first.If you're looking for that subbed Nyaa torrents has it.

[KrayZ33]

That episode was probably the only good one this season.
It tells us about the impact the gods have and how their existence in the lower realms messes with human life.

I also love the " a minute vs. eternity" aspect of it all.

[David75]

Gods coming down to lower realms mess with human/demihumans lives as much as humans/demihumans lives messes with Gods' existences.
And as short as a love story with a lower realm being can be for an eternal God, that story can change them forever.

Sure Gods could stay up in heavens and leave lower realms alone. But where's the fun ? :D

[Shadow Skill]

If you're looking for that subbed Nyaa torrents has it.

Oh lol. I found the subs separately. I wasn't sure if I should repost. If Nyaa has the movie, then I won't bother. :)

[KrayZ33]

Gods coming down to lower realms mess with human/demihumans lives as much as humans/demihumans lives messes with Gods' existences.

I wonder about that, it almost seems like a "short sweet trip" to them in my opinion.
After all, they went to earth out of boredom

Apollo, Freya, Ares and Soma for example don't seem to be bothered by how they influence human life and while what has happened in this episode, or rather, what was being told in this episode was beautiful, it still shows that the presence of a god completely messes up human lifetime. Him not taking or wanting to find a wife is proof of that.
At the same time, the love of a god can be endless. Hestia not finding another Bell in the next 20.000 years for example is far more unlikely than a human not finding love a second time.
And as Hephaistos put it, a God's love is that of a mother to it's child and very rarely the love between lovers. This is not really the case for their familia children, they are not children seeking attention from their mother... and sometimes, it's not even love in the first place and their are simply being forced into their "games".

I don't think it's right to mess with hundreds or thousands of lives to get that 1 child who you will fall in love with.

[Kraco]

Eh, the gods of old, as they were depicted, couldn't care less if they messed up the mortals' lives. They were a part of the world, after all. Even in practice, in real history, they had a bigger role due to the rampant superstition than today. It goes without saying the impact is far more significant in the universe of this series where the gods are there for anyone to see. Honestly, I'd rather take a world with real gods than a world where a religion is but a tool of power and control like ours.

[DarthEnderX]

I wonder about that, it almost seems like a "short sweet trip" to them in my opinion.
After all, they went to earth out of boredomThat might be what it starts out as, but not what it ends up being.

From the way no god seemingly wants to go back, it seems that being in the Lower World is almost universally better than being in the Upper World to them. And I believe they said that once they die and return above, they can never come back down again.

So to the gods, it's less a short sweet trip and more "I'm immigrating from my shitty country to a nicer country. I hope I never get deported back to my shitty country."

[KrayZ33]

Honestly, I'd rather take a world with real gods than a world where a religion is but a tool of power and control like ours.

That's weird though, because you are basically saying that you wish to be controlled by divine magic, instead of making your own choices - such as ignoring religion all together and not be part of a fanatic group.

When Freya goes around and makes you her slave you might enjoy it, but not out of your free will.
Gods meddling with mortals such as us is exactly what shoudn't happen, because we end up being irrational.


So to the gods, it's less a short sweet trip and more "I'm immigrating from my shitty country to a nicer country. I hope I never get deported back to my shitty country."

But that's still the "short sweet trip" when you live for an eternity. It's like vacation that ends once they mess up.
They don't have to work on earth, their children provide them with any and everything they need to do whatever they want to do. At least that's the case for most of the gods.

[Kraco]

That's weird though, because you are basically saying that you wish to be controlled by divine magic, instead of making your own choices - such as ignoring religion all together and not be part of a fanatic group.

When Freya goes around and makes you her slave you might enjoy it, but not out of your free will.
Gods meddling with mortals such as us is exactly what shoudn't happen, because we end up being irrational.

That's the price to pay for a world of magic! Because gods couldn't exist without magic. Also, there would still be plenty of choices to make. The choices might be a little different, but perhaps the results of the choices would be more readily apparent.

[Munsu]

Looks like we're getting an OVA in January (probably a fanservice one), followed by season 3 in the Summer. I really like the next arc, hopefully it's done right. Lots of potential for action and violence, and tense moments.

[Kraco]

S3 Episode 1



- - - - - -




For a good deal of the episode I was wondering why they don't clip the monster kid's nails. Fortunately they did, finally, after the first accident happened.

I'm really happy Haruhime and Mikoto are there. The family growing feels like the most significant thing that happened in the series. However, the fact it took so long naturally also increased its impact. I won't say liking fox girls wouldn't affect my judgement, haha.

Looking at the ED, it seems like Bell will defend a whole lot of intelligent monsters, to the point of needing to confront no one else but Ais herself. That ought to be interesting.

[Buffalobiian]

I was actually hoping they wouldn't clip Weine's nails, or at least not until Weine volunteered the idea. I read into it as an Imperialism metaphor a bit too much.

Haruhime's addition was fine. Mikoto joining them always felt a little weird since she had her own family.

I found the episode quite a chore to watch since I don't like the "raising a little kid" episodes usually. There are exceptions like the Shield Hero characters.

[DarthEnderX]

For a good deal of the episode I was wondering why they don't clip the monster kid's nails. Fortunately they did, finally, after the first accident happened.Depends if they're like human nails, or animal claws.

If they're like animal claws, cutting them down that much hurts them, as claws still have veins and nerves in then.


I was actually hoping they wouldn't clip Weine's nails, or at least not until Weine volunteered the idea. I read into it as an Imperialism metaphor a bit too much.
I guess, but since it's a miracle she wasn't killed, a little cultural assimilation seems like a small price to pay.

[Kraco]

She's very humanoid, so it's reasonable to think the nails would be like humanoid nails as well, although probably tougher. Maybe they were highly useful in the dungeon, but now she hurt Bell quite nastily by accident, against her own intentions. You could see how she was more distressed than Bell himself by it, no wonder she feared that would be it for her. I imagine they were also hampering her own life out of the dungeon. If she ends up back there, she might like to regrow them, unless she adopts external weapons, but otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. She looked pleased once they were clipped, after all. Furthemore, nobody attempted to clip them before the accident, so it wasn't an idea pushed onto her based on some aesthetic or purely (human) cultural reasons. Psychologically, she knows she's a monster and different from everyone else, so I'd say being that little bit more similar to everyone would be a relief for her as well, seeing how she's nothing but a child.

[Munsu]

As I read the light novels, from what I recall this may be my favorite arc so far. It should have some good fights if handled well.

[Kraco]

S3 Episode 2



- - - - - -



This was somehow annoyingly cliched. I wish the author could have come up with another way to move the plot forward instead of that folks talking aloud and getting overheard by accident. I'm also not the greatest fan of all that hesitation, but I guess that's what it leads to if you haphazardly save someone with no idea whatsoever of what to do afterwards. That's why they say that if you save something/someone, you are responsible for the one you saved.

[DarthEnderX]

Yep. Just escort your new monster around, and if anyone hassles you, kill the racist!

Sure, you'll have to kill most of the city. But the world will be a better place.

Especially idiots that are gonna stand around and throw rocks at a thing that they're supposedly terrified is going to kill them. Why aren't they running away if it's such a threat?!

[KrayZ33]

Yep. Just escort your new monster around, and if anyone hassles you, kill the racist!

Sure, you'll have to kill most of the city. But the world will be a better place.


What are you referring to here?

[Kraco]

Why aren't they running away if it's such a threat?!

I suppose because it didn't look like a threat and behave like a threat. As long as it's not fighting back, anybody can be the hero of the day.

[Munsu]

S3 Episode 2



- - - - - -



This was somehow annoyingly cliched. I wish the author could have come up with another way to move the plot forward instead of that folks talking aloud and getting overheard by accident. I'm also not the greatest fan of all that hesitation, but I guess that's what it leads to if you haphazardly save someone with no idea whatsoever of what to do afterwards. That's why they say that if you save something/someone, you are responsible for the one you saved.

I have no problem with Lili throwing some truth bombs at the family, particularly when this family is still particularly weak. But yeah not a fan of the being overheard trope either. Looks like Bell now is affected by not being able to fight monsters, which for me will be annoying... it means that while that is happening we may be deprived of some good action sequences.

[Kraco]

Looks like Bell now is affected by not being able to fight monsters, which for me will be annoying... it means that while that is happening we may be deprived of some good action sequences.

Oh, yeah. That was indeed bloody annoying. Tione was anything but impressed. I wouldn't count too much on the Amazon, but Ryuu perhaps realised something more serious is going on.

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 04

--------------------------






So Bell punched the lizzard with Argonaut and it did nothing, and there's a stronger guy still. I want to meet this guy.

Glad we have the talking monster plotline now.

[Munsu]

Episode 04

--------------------------






So Bell punched the lizzard with Argonaut and it did nothing, and there's a stronger guy still. I want to meet this guy.

Glad we have the talking monster plotline now.

Don't know if I recall correctly, but I think Argonaut depends on the charge time, but he didn't charge it for long. The ending of episode 4 was promising.

[shinta|hikari]

Yes, Argonaut depends on the charge time, and also it was a punch. If it were the Hestia knives, things would've ended differently.

[Buffalobiian]

S3E5

-----------------------








I get that monsters can be sexy too. I really do.

But spider? No thanks.

[DarthEnderX]

I hear that.

[Kraco]

What I don't quite get is why Ouranos simply lets Ikelos do what they do. All of what Ouranos is trying to achieve will be destoyed in a single evening by Ikelos, so why even bother? Either get rid of Ikelos or don't even try.

[DarthEnderX]

Get rid of them with what?

Ouranos only seems to have one familia member that lives outside the dungeon.

[Kraco]

He has his allies. Isn't Ganesha the largest guild? If Ikelos is linked to Evilus, they are outlaws, right?

[DarthEnderX]

That's just a rumor and nothing they can prove atm isn't it?

I mean, they're killing monsters. It's not like they're doing anything wrong or illegal. Can they just be, like, "Hey Ganesha, help me wipe out this other familia."?

Edit: Oh wait, they're also smuggling monsters. That is illegal isn't it.

[Buffalobiian]

lolwut, they have a sentient Minotaur?!

RIP lvl5.

[Kraco]

Episode 6



- - - - - -



That's why lesser men shouldn't try to read an Elder Scroll. They will become crazy if not blind. Quite an interesting obsession to build a secondary dungeon next to the real one, nonetheless. You could view it as a safe way straight to the 18th level, if freed from the hands of that crazy family. It would be convenient for folks wanting to explore the deeper levels, assuming it has straight passages. No need to cut their way through small fries every time. Plus even those barely able to reach the 18th level could then return using the parallel dungeon, safely, without needing to fight their way back up all tired and devoid of supplies. I bet the prices in that dungeon town would also be more reasonable when goods could be transported there safely.

[Munsu]

lolwut, they have a sentient Minotaur?!

RIP lvl5.

Is this the new recruit they mentioned that was going around the "lower levels" (I think that's the term)? Or we'll we have another badass in addition to this one?

The other question, as I couldn't tell... are they already inside the maze? If they are, how did they get in? Too lazy to go back and check the scene.

[Buffalobiian]

Is this the new recruit they mentioned that was going around the "lower levels" (I think that's the term)? Or we'll we have another badass in addition to this one?

The other question, as I couldn't tell... are they already inside the maze? If they are, how did they get in? Too lazy to go back and check the scene.

1. I think it's the new recruit around the lower levels. Lyd sent the rabbit to go collect him at the rendezvous point. Between the rabbit, the wolf and the Minotaur, I'm going to say it's the Minotaur.

Lyd seemed pretty chill about it, which was funny. I guess since monsters themselves have strength hierarchies of sorts, you really can't do much about things if a stronger monster suddenly acquired brains.

2. I think they're still running through the tunnels. The sage gave that little goblin the eye to retreat with, so I think they'll just meet each other.

[DarthEnderX]

TQuite an interesting obsession to build a secondary dungeon next to the real one, nonetheless. You could view it as a safe way straight to the 18th level, if freed from the hands of that crazy family. It would be convenient for folks wanting to explore the deeper levels, assuming it has straight passages. No need to cut their way through small fries every time. Plus even those barely able to reach the 18th level could then return using the parallel dungeon, safely, without needing to fight their way back up all tired and devoid of supplies. I bet the prices in that dungeon town would also be more reasonable when goods could be transported there safely.Yeah, but let's be real, what it's going to be used for after they beat these guys is an underground railroad for the Xenos to escape to the surface.

[Kraco]

Episode 7


- - -



This was such a stupid episode that I had to skip parts of it. I couldn't bear watching it. Bell has suddenly forgotten how to fight at all. It's hard to imagine that's the same guy who defeated the minotaur back then. He doesn't use the firebolt anymore for plot convenience's sake. The most annoying fight related thing in anime ever was also splendidly present: Standing still and just staring when things are happening, instead of trying to do something about it. Yeah, this was the first episode in all the Danchimachi series so far that was so bad I had to grab the slider to jump ahead, to be able to finish it at all.

[KrayZ33]

oops double.

[KrayZ33]

Episode 7


- - -



This was such a stupid episode that I had to skip parts of it. I could bear watching it. Bell has suddenly forgotten how to fight at all. It's hard to imagine that's the same guy who defeated the minotaur back then. He doesn't use the firebolt anymore for plot convenience's sake. The most annoying fight related thing in anime ever was also splendidly present: Standing still and just staring when things are happening, instead of trying to do something about it. Yeah, this was the first episode in all the Dachimachi series so far that was so bad I had to grab the slider to jump ahead, to be able to finish it at all.


Yet the ending of that episode was probably the most interesting so far and totally saved that whole thing.

The only annoying part I really want to criticise is that annoying "I just stand up every time you beat me until my love reaches your heart"-cliche.

Here I am, totally hoping that the Foxgirl will boost his level by 2 (alongside a hidden-level up from himself or something) with her ability and he starts fighting the Loki Familia.
I don't even remember his level.
Was he lvl 3? And he is facing mostly lvl 5 and 2 lvl6?

If that happens, I'm just glad that there are enough episodes left to show a fight like that properly - post battle stuff included.

[Kraco]

Yet the ending of that episode was probably the most interesting so far and totally saved that whole thing.

The only annoying part I really want to criticise is that annoying "I just stand up every time you beat me until my love reaches your heart"-cliche.

Here I am, totally hoping that the Foxgirl will boost his level by 2 (alongside a hidden-level up from himself or something) with her ability and he starts fighting the Loki Familia.
I don't even remember his level.
Was he lvl 3? And he is facing mostly lvl 5 and 2 lvl6?

If that happens, I'm just glad that there are enough episodes left to show a fight like that properly - post battle stuff included.

I can't say I'd have understood the ending. The moment Wiene got pinned on the wall, I assumed Bell would immediately try to return the precious jewel the crazy dude ripped off from her forehead. But no, Bell did nothing. Of course there's a chance you can't just slap the thing back, but it's the most obvious thing to try, right? The madman even threatened to destroy it, supposedly spelling Wiene's doom, and it got Bell beside himself. So, there's some worth in that jewel, at least. Unless the part I skipped explained why it can't simply be returned, in which case I could blame only myself.

[DarthEnderX]

"This weapon is cursed! You can't use heal spells or potions to heal it's wounds!"

"I'm gonna heal you with a spell. It works like an elixer!"

*wounds heal*

[KrayZ33]

"This weapon is cursed! You can't use heal spells or potions to heal it's wounds!"

"I'm gonna heal you with a spell. It works like an elixer!"

*wounds heal*

Well, the weapon is broken, so I just figured the curse is lifted tbh.

[DarthEnderX]

Ah, good point.

[KrayZ33]

Episode 8


Ugh... I was kinda expecting more. I guess the scenes between Miniminotaur and Ais were okay-ish but not really that good either and the rest was really a letdown.
It's so boring when MC is just there doing nothing never getting shit done.

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, and we almost had some actual consequences...for about 30 seconds.

The minotaur is also a bit disappointing. He's a badass, but he doesn't talk, so he's got no real personality. Can't tell if he's an asshole, like Gros, or cool like Lyd.

Now that the hunter guild has been wiped out, the Xenos should live in Daedelus' labyrinth. Gives them access to the dungeon, but is hidden from both the adventurers and feral monsters. And the heroes can visit them without entering the dungeon.

[Buffalobiian]

Minotaur had no one to talk to.

He rescued sexy flying girl, beat up the antagonist of this first half, then fought some higher level dudes. All of the other established monsters could be considered to be having internal monologues since talking monsters are supposed to be a hidden thing still.

I think we'll get Minotaur talking once he's not on the surface.

[Kraco]

Episode 9



- -- - - -



Yeah... The hobbit really sees through everything with a magic eye. Hopefully Hermes is ready to turn things 360 degrees to fool Finn. But perhaps not, if we are supposed to get a goofy Bell vs Ais fight. Who knows, which is a good thing. The last two eps were decent once again, unlike ep 7. The minotaur fight was pretty disappointing, though it would have been too weird if Ais had been powerless against it. In the end the bull man was facing a whole bunch of high level adventurers alone, so it was doomed.

I found it interesting how judgemental Hermes appeared when talking about the Loki familia. It almost felt like he said that so that Bell would act one way, to fullfil his role in the grand plan. Maybe I'm overestimating the plot, maybe not.

[Kraco]

Episode 10


- - - - -



The whole plan seems kind of meaningless. The guarded points aren't that far apart from each other, and the Loki familia alone has plenty of those jumping from rooftop to rooftop people. The sentient monsters are too weak to deal with them, at least quickly, so more people would gather. Alone, all that screaming and explosions would lead to more and more alert adventurers, who, even if not capable of stopping the monsters, would at least delay them. They seemed to be easily delayed.

I wish it had been a more refined strategy. Considering the people involved and the nature of the city, there should have been an easy enough way to keep the monsters in a few secure locations without a clear danger of getting found out any time soon, yet with an easy enough access for those involved. Then this whole night of action could have been nothing but one big feint with actually nothing happening, no monsters moving at all. If things had been totally silent after that, even the Loki familia wouldn't have known what's going on. It's not like they could keep guarding blocks of the city forever either. A week later the monsters could have been shipped to one of the entry points using covered carts, early in the morning when other carts are rolling around anyway, shipping food, firewood, and all that stuff for the needs of a big city.

[Kraco]

Episode 11


- - - - - -



Seems like Hermes made a couple of enemies more for himself. Quite nice backstabbing, though. I didn't see it coming. I'm not sure how this fits with Hermes's mythology, but perhaps he thinks he knows more than the others.

Bell and Ais's fight wasn't bad, though of course Ais didn't take it seriously and Bell would never want to hurt Ais. It was just more practice for Bell, basically.

[Buffalobiian]

Hermes backstabbing was unexpected. This seems to be more his personal agenda and he just helped out Ouranos to get inside information.

Unknown factors now are why Black Minotaur didn't escape with everyone else, and Ottar's task from Freya.

[DarthEnderX]

Aww it sucks that Hermes is a badguy...I liked him.


Hermes backstabbing was unexpected. Surprising that a character with such a stereotypically villainous look isn't a subversion?

[Buffalobiian]

Aww it sucks that Hermes is a badguy...I liked him.

Surprising that a character with such a stereotypically villainous look isn't a subversion?

He has a chilled playboy look. I wouldn't say he has a villainous look.

[DarthEnderX]

He has the stereotypical anime "sadistic trickster" look.

Characters like Hazama from BlazBlue or Gin from Bleach(who is a subversion, but you're SUPPOSED to think he's a villain) have the same look. There's plenty of others. It's very common with characters who like cutting people up.

Edit: Actually, no, he doesn't quite have that face, as he at least keeps his eyes open.

[Kraco]

His looks, in my opinion, match pretty well of what he's supposed to be the god of. Not historically, obviously, but just from what I'd, stereotypically, expect from the protector of heralds, travellers, thieves, merchants, and orators. His looks have much of the wanderer/travelling peddler, bard, thief, and such style.

[DarthEnderX]

That's his clothes though. I'm just talking about his faaaaace.

[DarthEnderX]

12

---

Guess, he's not evil. He just really needs Bell to be the hero.

[Buffalobiian]

Okay.. I thought Bell blew that minotaur in half and took its stone in the original fight. So monsters die and are reborn sentient?

[KrayZ33]

Okay.. I thought Bell blew that minotaur in half and took its stone in the original fight. So monsters die and are reborn sentient?

Most likely not all of them, but... the whole of season 3 has been about that fact pretty much lol, so it's kinda funny that you only noticed it now since they didn't even hide it or made it a real mystery :D.


The fight was not even remotely as epic as the one from Season 1 btw.
It was okay, but in comparison - not even close.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought they just became sentient by living long enough or something. I didn't know they died and got rezzed. I get that the monsters kept saying "I had a dream that I was doing all this stuff before I knew what I was doing" etc, but figured that was just their mind slowly becoming self aware. You know, like if someone said "I had a dream that I did this shit" when in fact they were drunk when they did it.

[DarthEnderX]

I thought the same thing as Buff. And still did until just now because I didn't even remember that Bell killed that Minotaur. :p

[KrayZ33]

I thought they just became sentient by living long enough or something. I didn't know they died and got rezzed. I get that the monsters kept saying "I had a dream that I was doing all this stuff before I knew what I was doing" etc, but figured that was just their mind slowly becoming self aware. You know, like if someone said "I had a dream that I did this shit" when in fact they were drunk when they did it.

Okay, you most likely just forgot that Wiene was born a Xenos in season 2 (after credits).
And with that in mind, I think ever since she mentioned that dream with the fight against adventurers it has been clear that they see things about their previous life.
We also know that monsters "spawn" out of walls in this dungeons, so we know it wasn't some kind of "ability" of hers.
And we also know that Bosses respawn

So, yeah.. :D

[shinta|hikari]

Yeah, the Xenos are reborn monsters who gained sentience in their reincarnation.

The fight with Aiz was toned down so much from the novel. Aiz beat the living shit out of Bell in the book, making me hate her and stop rooting for her as the lead romantic partner.

Next arc is about Lyu, the true best girl. I hope it gets animated soon.

[DarthEnderX]

Aiz, the character with absolutely no personality, has never been best girl.

[Kraco]

The fight with Aiz was toned down so much from the novel. Aiz beat the living shit out of Bell in the book, making me hate her and stop rooting for her as the lead romantic partner.

How does that even work, considering Bell still needed to fight the minotaur well above his level? I'd say this anime adaptation would make more sense. Bell would actually still be in a shape to put up something of a fight.


Aiz, the character with absolutely no personality, has never been best girl.

Sword Oratoria suggested Ais is partially a spirit, not fully human. I'd say that lack of personality is her personality. According to Ouranos, spirits were helpers the gods sent down to Earth to assist heroes in the fight against the monsters. A complete human like personality is not required.

I like Ais. I don't mind if she keeps bashing Bell's skull. He needs that. But then again, the series has a whole lot of great girls.

[shinta|hikari]

How does that even work, considering Bell still needed to fight the minotaur well above his level? I'd say this anime adaptation would make more sense. Bell would actually still be in a shape to put up something of a fight.


Aiz gave him potions to heal up with.

[DarthEnderX]

I'd say that lack of personality is her personality.That's dumb.

[Kraco]

That's dumb.

I guess you weren't a fan of the Terminator movies, in that case?

[DarthEnderX]

I guess you weren't a fan of the Terminator movies, in that case?I wouldn't say the Terminator was my favorite character IN those movies, no.

[Munsu]

Season 4 confirmed...

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2021-01-31/is-it-wrong-to-try-to-pick-up-girls-in-a-dungeon-anime-4th-season-confirmed-ova-trailer-streamed/.168980

That said, I wonder if we'll ever get more of Sword Oratoria.

[Kraco]

Season 4 confirmed...

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2021-01-31/is-it-wrong-to-try-to-pick-up-girls-in-a-dungeon-anime-4th-season-confirmed-ova-trailer-streamed/.168980

That said, I wonder if we'll ever get more of Sword Oratoria.

I wouldn't mind a new season of both series!

[KrayZ33]

Well... it's not like I hate this show... I even thought that the small skrimish between Aiz and Bell was okay/good even though it wasn't as well done as the first minotaur fight.

But I always have hopes for this show. I just want to see Bell grow into someone awesome.
Once more I'll hope that we actually get to see some interesting combat between characters / guilds.
Once more I'll most likely be disappointed.

The whole "dungeon crawling"-experience is basically gone from this show :(

[Kraco]

S3 OVA


- - - -



At first I thought this was going to be totally useless, with characters I can't even remember, but it wasn't actually half bad, as far as these kinds of ovas generally go. It even had less fanservice than I'd have expected from an onsen ova, instead going for the plot (and I don't mean the boing boing kind of plot either).

[KrayZ33]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zctoYqq9iuQ

It seems to me, if I look at the trailer, that the dungeon crawling is back.

If that's the case I'm quite interested. Seems like the crew grew quite a bit as well for that expedition.

[Kraco]

Yeah, looks like there will be quite a significant dungeon arc, otherwise the trailer wouldn't be so focused on it, I reckon.

[Kraco]

S4 - 00


This isn't really worth watching, unless you want to see a full episode long recap and basically a trailer for the new season at the very end of it.

[Buffalobiian]

S4E2

------------------







Okay, that guy was scary. The fact that it runs, hides seems to have a face that says "I'm fucking around with you" and does those bendy moves is all scary. I'm glad that we got a good battle after spending nearly the full episode gushing over Bell.

[Buffalobiian]

Ep 04

------------------















Ah. The show is living up to its title.

[shinta|hikari]

It has been from the beginning.

[Buffalobiian]

It has been from the beginning.

I've felt that we've spent a significant amount of time outside of the dungeon.

It's the first time in a while where Bell's gone down there, meet a girl ("Oh hello there" style) and chill out for a bit.

Earlier in the series it was about Bell being a cute rooking who kept getting smashed but had good spirit. The middle parts seemed to take place outside of dungeons, exploring politics and training etc, and rescuing girls.

It's refreshing here since all he does it meet one and has a nice chat. And it was a very nice chat.

[KrayZ33]

EP5


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I guess thats it.

That's the moment I understood that I'll never get a Season 1 out of this show again where Bell had "his moment"
This one had the perfect setup, enough build up, the stakes were high....and the conclusion was just underwhelmingly generic.

The level-up-fox spell animation was very nice.
And about 5 seconds of the fight as well.
Just 5 seconds...

edit: I'm going to be bold and haughty and say it. I could have directed that fight better, even with the same amount of "quality" animation (as in, awful in animation) and Sakuga animation.
The squad not cheering on Bell enough , Bell not struggling enough, useless flashbacks, time waster combat animation out of a dragonball Z show - it's all a freaking waste.
The moment to make this fight scene last for the rest of the season and carry the show was there. The stakes were high enough, the were properly developed even with this absolute shitty fight between the 4/5* Aisha and the monster it was there and when Bell arrived I thought this is going to ROCK, but it just didn't happen.
When you get "hyped up" like that, then the fall down is just so much harder and hurts so much more.
*Trash shows* this season had better fights and direction.

*sigh*

What a waste... how low the budget must be for this show to waste such an opportunity.
Or maybe all the talent from Season 1 just left or whatever.
For god's sake, even the death of the creature was like the absolute *worst*

[Buffalobiian]

I was somewhat disappointed when the Moss grew larger. Whenever a boss grows larger, it's no longer the witty, unpredictable humanoid boss but another tank. That's just how it is, and it's how this turned out.

I was also never super hyped in S1 though. For me this seems like standard Danmachi boss fight.

I wonder what he did with the flame sword. We already know he can channel a firebolt through it - it worked against the Minotaur in S1. If this metal disperses mana, then you wouldn't think it'd be buffable. If Bell was constantly channelling a Fireball into that knife for 10 seconds straight it'd seem wasteful.

It definitely sounds he he did a "Imbue your weapon to deal 1000x fire damage on next hit" type of thing, but it doesn't fit the limitations described by our Blacksmith friend.

edit: unless "mana dispersion" requires physical contact and it doesn't just disperse into the air.

[DarthEnderX]

I'm glad the whole season wasn't that one monster.

When's he going to learn dual wield?

[shinta|hikari]

@Krayz @Buff

Argo Vesta was badly adapted and animated. It was supposed to be an application of argonaut charges to firebolt, which is used on the hestia knife, just like he did in season 1. Instead of just using the knife as a pipe, he used it as a vessel this time. It was his flashiest move in the LN, with all the bells and whistles of a season-ending kamehameha, but ended up underwhelming.

That said, the next arc should be a better opportunity to showcase the S1 minotaur fight choreography and intensity. L-Y-U-F-T-W!

[KrayZ33]

@Krayz @Buff

Argo Vesta was badly adapted and animated. It was supposed to be an application of argonaut charges to firebolt, which is used on the hestia knife, just like he did in season 1. Instead of just using the knife as a pipe, he used it as a vessel this time. It was his flashiest move in the LN, with all the bells and whistles of a season-ending kamehameha, but ended up underwhelming.

That said, the next arc should be a better opportunity to showcase the S1 minotaur fight choreography and intensity. L-Y-U-F-T-W!

Well... I hope so.

S1 Minotaur is still the best "zero-to-hero" moment there is in anime. The best thing is, it's not even nostalgia for me. I can bring it up on youtube and watch it and still get goosebumps.

"Pipsqueak" getting told by Bell to abandon him, Bell at first just trying to prolong the fight as much as possible for her to escape, then realizing that this can't be the solution. Her asking the "elite crew" for help by begging.
The music, the reactions of the characters watching him, the power and weight behind both their moves in combat, the firebolt finish, the way the monster got incinerated, the "mind down"-effect and Bell standing inside the "spotlight" what looks like as if the moonlight was breaking through the dungeon walls. The realization that his stats are awesome etc. etc. etc.

I just can't get the same "feeling" when I read a/the LN, it's just not possible for me.
An Audio Book with background sounds or something? Sure... but without, nah - not the same deal.

So when you say the LN did it better, for me, it already shows how *bad* the anime show just did it.

[shinta|hikari]

It's definitely a budget and motivation issue. The minotaur fight was the chance for Danmachi to either be a forgettable 1 cour show or the franchise that it is now, so the studio definitely put everything they had into it.

Now, Danmachi is already extremely popular, so they don't need to spend as much money and effort. It is an unfortunate reality in entertainment, not just anime.

[Buffalobiian]

S4E7

-----------










*sigh*.. that's not how foresights work.

If it may not happen then it's not as good a foresight as it's reputed to be.

If foresight always happens then no matter what you do, it'll happen. Don't try to stop people going down to the dungeon. Work out the facts from the interpretations and just mentally prepare. If Aisha is going to be hurt and bleeding, she'll be hurt and bleeding.

[David75]

Cassandra dreams of the future might not be true foresight.
They survived the clever hugemoss... Eventhough she didn't clearly see anyone dead in that dream.
We don't know for sure what her dreams are. But considering MC's crew is mostly safe, we can assume it's a warning for the most probable outcome and they need to find ways out of it.
So Cassandra's dream might be different from the mythological Cassandra. But she still has trouble communicating her dreams like the mythological one.

[DarthEnderX]

If foresight always happens then no matter what you do, it'll happen.Then it's pointless and stupid. If you can't change things, being able to see it is useless.

Good foresight shows you what WOULD have happened, if you couldn't see what would happen, and now know to act differently.

[Buffalobiian]

Then it's pointless and stupid. If you can't change things, being able to see it is useless.

It's not pointless, it shows you what will happen - but what is important is that what isn't shown can be modified.

If I dream that a hurricane totals my house, my house is screwed - but I can move all the valuables into a car and move that to safety.

If I see a character lying in a pool of red liquid, they might get hurt in the future but I may be able to prevent their death or harm to others. What the dreamers need to do is differentiate what is undeniably true (person lying in a pool of red liquid), and what is an interpretation of that (person is hurt / dying).

Steins;Gate explores such a concept well.

Foresights based on "what ifs" are flawed because it's a guess. If someone dreams that Bell fights Ryu, but then it doesn't occur - is the foresight just wrong, was it avoided actively, or is the fight yet to happen? Is it even foresight at this point.

And on the other hand, if in a dream Bell appears to fight Ryu, and the party decides to not participate in this hunt -

Will joining the hunt lead to the fight?
Or will avoiding the hunt lead to the fight?

Neither is certain, so what will you do?

The only way Foresight makes any actual sense is if what occurs is absolute and you just have to deal with everything else.

[David75]

At this point we'd have to know if Cassandra was 100% sure everyone she's seen in predicaments was really dead.
When she's sure they're still alive, then like for the HugeMoss, everyone can come back and survive.
I'd like to be able to rewatch the dream and clearly understand her statements. Even with my low level of understanding, trads get unprecise, miss some useful details or feel wrong. For that dream, we'd need to be 100% sure of what was said to start a discussion.

[shinta|hikari]

@Buff @Darth -

I think the two different precognition concepts you two mentioned work well. They just have different uses in a story, but either make sense. In fact, Darth's version is the more common in fiction.

Precognition that can be changed isn't meaningless because it can mean that what happens in the dream is almost set in stone, but if the precog does something drastic because of that future knowledge, then it can be changed. Part of the tension in terms of story writing is whether the event has already been avoided or is yet to come, and guessing at what actions can be done to change that outcome.

Think of that future dream as a waterfall, and everyone is on the river heading to it. The inertia pushes everything into the direction of the dream, even if you struggle to go against it. It is exacerbated by the fact that no one else knows or believes there is a waterfall at the end of the river except the precog. Now she can struggle all she wants, but "fate" still flows towards that waterfall. It takes something drastic to be able to get everyone out of the river, but it is possible, albeit extremely difficult or unlikely.

[DarthEnderX]

It's not pointless, it shows you what will happen - but what is important is that what isn't shown can be modified.Nah, that's still dumb.

If I have a vision where I turn left at an intersection and a piano falls on me, and then I am for some reason incapable of turning right instead, then that is shit writing, and that writer shouldn't be writing visions.


Foresights based on "what ifs" are flawed because it's a guess. If someone dreams that Bell fights Ryu, but then it doesn't occur - is the foresight just wrong, was it avoided actively, or is the fight yet to happen? Is it even foresight at this point.Your foresight was for your original timeline. By taking different actions, you enter into a new timeline.

[Buffalobiian]

If I have a vision where I turn left at an intersection and a piano falls on me, and then I am for some reason incapable of turning right instead

You can turn right.
But a piano falls on you tomorrow. Or the day after. Or you identified the wrong intersection and you turned left at an intersection later on in the day and the piano fell on you then.

Did you change timelines by turning right at 10am when you first encountered an intersection post-vision? Or was your timeline always going to be that a piano fell onto you tomorrow and turning left or right on the first day didn't matter? The problem with these "what if" visions is that when it happens you think "That was foretold", but when it doesn't happen immediately you can't tell if it's avoided, or just yet to happen.

That's why there are always doomsday prophecies. Did they just not happen, or is doomsday just yet to come?

You write foresights in the manner by having the foresight be snippets of vision, and not a 2 minute video of continuous experience. This way, what you see is indeed factual and inevitable, but the context and circumstances are vague enough to have modifiable variables.

I know both styles of foresight occur in fiction, but the only one that makes any real sense is the one where the future never changes (regardless of whether the MC has foresight, or whether they can travel back in time [which in essence gave them foresight via experience]).

The way "What If" foresights could work is if the MC is able to see both paths and makes a decision based on that. Seeing a flash of one future only doesn't help.

[DarthEnderX]

I know both styles of foresight occur in fiction, but the only one that makes any real sense is the one where the future never changes (regardless of whether the MC has foresight, or whether they can travel back in timeMakes sense? You're literally talking about magic, guy.

It doesn't "make sense" that kid can shoot fire out of his hand. He can, because that's what magic does.

If you have magical sight that shows you what's gonna happen, unless you change it, then that's how that magic works.


Seeing a flash of one future only doesn't help.Well that's true. Seeing just a flash of anything is rarely very helpful.

You can show me a flash of an episode of a TV show and I won't have a very good idea of what's going to happen.

[Buffalobiian]

If you have magical sight that shows you what's gonna happen, unless you change it, then that's how that magic works.


That works when you have context (eg you can see the entire next day in your dream the night before, so when you wake up you have details and know what to change), or if your foresight is near immediate (like in a certain recent Isekai anime where you can see 1-3 seconds ahead) because the current reality gives context, and the results of your "altered" actions can be assessed in a sure manner.

When the context is lost because either the vision in chopped up flashes (like here), or there is significant time delay between the vision and its supposed occurance (like here - by "significant" I mean many variables can occur in the interim), then the foresight lacks meaning.

Does Bell get hurt because he joins the hunt, or will he get hurt because he avoids the hunt? All we know is that he gets hurt near a waterfall somewhere, sometime. The direct actions that lead to this consequence is unknown, and thus the action he must take to avoid this is also unknown.

It doesn't really matter whether he intends to join the hunt at the time of this vision or not, because there are too many variables between the two events. Any one of those could be the significant ones.

That's why I think the "flash of a not-immediate-future" foresights lack meaning as a "maybe it will happen, maybe it won't" story device. When I say they "don't make sense" I mean you can't do any real analysis on them or confidently alter your actions based on it.

That's why it's better when those foresights are protrayed and understood as unchangable truths instead. Now we can take action. We know Bell will get hurt. It will be near a waterfall. We can't avoid that. We know it will happen. What do we do? Armour up. Bring potions. Buy an inflatable life jacket if you can afford one. You know that everyone else that isn't in the vision is unaccounted for, so use them to help your upcoming situation.

You make this work by deliberately writing in flashes. If you give it too much context, then you just go back to the "dreamed the whole next day when I woke up" scenario. In which case I'd say yeah.. if that was your story device then sticking to the future 100% is dumb because that's not much of a story.

[shinta|hikari]

That's why I think the "flash of a not-immediate-future" foresights lack meaning as a "maybe it will happen, maybe it won't" story device. When I say they "don't make sense" I mean you can't do any real analysis on them or confidently alter your actions based on it.


I agree with this analysis but assert that this is intentional as a storytelling device to create suspense. If you can readily analyze the visions and change the future, there will be no sense of danger. The power doesn't exist in a vacuum nor is it there for minmax utility. It is there to tell a story.

[Buffalobiian]

I agree with this analysis but assert that this is intentional as a storytelling device to create suspense. If you can readily analyze the visions and change the future, there will be no sense of danger.

I agree with this.

That's why I'm saying that the future in fact can not be changed, and it will come to pass. I bet you we'll see Bell hurt near a waterfall, and Aisha or whoever is bloodied on the ground will also occur. This future won't change.

The fact that the fortune teller girl still thinks that the vision can be avoided by telling people to stop doing whatever they're doing is annoying me.

In short - she's being dumb, and I want her to stop being dumb. But I also get that her being dumb and annoying is "part of the story", in the same way that there will always be one idiot that wanders off on their own in horror stories.

[DarthEnderX]

or if your foresight is near immediate (like in a certain recent Isekai anime where you can see 1-3 seconds ahead)Which is the best one, cause it means you get cool scenes where somebody effortlessly blocks all incoming attacks. Which is always badass.


I agree with this.

That's why I'm saying that the future in fact can not be changed, and it will come to pass. I bet you we'll see Bell hurt near a waterfall, and Aisha or whoever is bloodied on the ground will also occur. This future won't change.

The fact that the fortune teller girl still thinks that the vision can be avoided by telling people to stop doing whatever they're doing is annoying me.

In short - she's being dumb, and I want her to stop being dumb.See, I completely disagree. The show hasn't told us that the future sight can't be changed. That's just how you WANT it to work. Unless she already knows that that IS how it works, it would be dumb of her NOT to try and change the bad future that she saw.

You basically want her to do nothing to try and save anyone because of how you HOPE her power works. Even though there's been no indication that trying to stop people wouldn't work.

[Buffalobiian]

See, I completely disagree. The show hasn't told us that the future sight can't be changed. That's just how you WANT it to work. Unless she already knows that that IS how it works, it would be dumb of her NOT to try and change the bad future that she saw.

You basically want her to do nothing to try and save anyone because of how you HOPE her power works. Even though there's been no indication that trying to stop people wouldn't work.

She hasn't told us that it can be changed either. I don't remember any of her prior prophecies before this season. The one we got just now showed green moss over everyone which freaked her out, and it happened.

I'm willing to bet that the next dream happens as well.

What she sees is the future. And if she's figured out that they're prophetic dreams and not just random shit, then she's figured out that what she dreams of happens. She just hasn't accepted it.

I'm also not saying that she should do nothing. I'm saying she should do more useful things. If Skynet is going to take over the world, don't try to trash every computer you see. Build a bunker and stock up on food. If Bell is going to get hurt, prepare for damages.

[shinta|hikari]

I mean, we can't really determine which type her visions are. She likely doesn't know either, otherwise she would likely be doing what Buff said.

[DarthEnderX]

If Skynet is going to take over the world, don't try to trash every computer you see. Build a bunker and stock up on food.That's a TERRIBLE example for you to use, because Terminator is about knowing the future and changing it. The core theme of T2 is defying fate.

[Buffalobiian]

I agree. That is a bad example since they made a movie about it with plenty of context behind what happens.

That might make trying to imagine someone having glimpses of robotic takeover more difficult.

[Buffalobiian]

E 08

-----------






So the vision urges her to avoid whatever calamity is about to happen. Fine, I understand the urge to avoid this now.

I quite like Aisha. She's just straight forward, no bullshit. And hot.

[shinta|hikari]

All the amazons are hot.

Except for that fat one.

[Kraco]

It really must suck to be a fated hero like Bell. He might be a girl magnet, but, alas, I guess being a hero actually prevents him from putting that to any good use. Furthermore, he must trust everyone and be incapable of imagining that evil people exist and they are all the time planning nefarious deeds. If he somehow manages to live up to 40 years old, he will look like 80 years old from all the stress and anguish, or Weltschmerz (world-pain), like the Germans would say it.

Considering what sort of world they live it, the murder scene was almost morbidly funny. It's pretty difficult to imagine corpses wouldn't keep appearing all the time in the labyrinth town, even more so in Orario. It's a place full of nothing but reckless, battle-crazy adventurers who must be ready to look death eye to eye on a daily basis, and laugh merrily while doing it. If such people are pissed off, it's quite obvious they would resort to violence since violence is their way of life. Instead a dead body getting found created a scene equal to one found in bloody Reykjavík, or some other super safe place. Like, big deal. Dude was probably a scammer or another kind of criminal and got what was coming to him. At least it still took the agitator to get the crowd going, but it was still too smooth.

[David75]

Before the ep is out (not a spoiler):
I think Cassandra's healing power will power-up and save the almost dead party she sees in her dream.

edit: and I guess we have another 2/3 eps to get to the end of the arc so let's see how it unfolds.

[Kraco]

Episode 9


- - - -


Is Bell actually somehow trying to guard the one-arm freak while fighting/evading a dungeon boss at the same time? I can see there being some value in taking the dude back to surface alive so that he can be forced to spill all the beans, as he should indeed know much, but it seems next to impossible. But I guess anything's possible in a fairy tale. I'll hate Bell quite a lot if the dude ends up escaping because of this.

Nevertheless, there's no one better than Bell to have around when fighting a great monster/catastrophe. The dude's class is Hero, after all, so you could say that's his bread and butter. Seems like Ryuu doesn't understand it yet.

[shinta|hikari]

And he has Argonaut, the most OP skill ever, well next to Learis Freese.

[DarthEnderX]

And he has Argonaut, the most OP skill everI don't think that's common knowledge. I think only Hestia knows. She doesn't even tell BELL what all his skills are.

[Kraco]

She doesn't even tell BELL what all his skills are.

That is starting to look more and more the best decision ever.

[shinta|hikari]

Bell knows Argonaut. Hestia explained it to him herself. He even knows the mechanics of the charging and whatnot. What he doesn't know (but I think his entire team knows) is Learis Freese. They decided to keep it a secret from him since knowing about it may hinder its potential since his pure pursuit of Ais will get tarnished by knowing he benefits from it in a broken/cheating way.

[DarthEnderX]

What he doesn't know (but I think his entire team knows) is Learis Freese.Ah, that was it.

[Buffalobiian]

S4E10

-------------------
















I didn't expect Bell to look like he dies. But we all know Mermaid magic will fix him up.

I'm not sure I understand how this all fully works. The whole Damage = self-protecting demon makes sense. But the whole Floor 25-27 = a single floor thing seems only relevant only if this monster's strength is floor dependent. (ie by damaging the 25th floor, he can summon a 27th floor abomination). But all their talk suggests that this thing is stronger than that.. and why stop at 27? Go summon it on Floor 28 or 29 for something even stronger.

[David75]

Didn't Bell get a 10 minutes rewind from someone ? Or maybe I'm mixing with another show.
Now bell can grow up and start going full Guts/Berserk :cool:
Because there's no doubt he survives, only that we need some powers we've not seen yet to glue an arm back for the simpler one.
Nice tension build-up and cliff hanger.

[Kraco]

That bloody tamer is an even more infuriating character to listen to than Heimskr in Skyrim (the lunatic priest of Talos in the middle of Whiterun). If I had been Bell, it would have been the end of my career as a hero because I would have chopped his head off just to make him shut up.

It was actually pretty nice to watch Bell getting killed. He desperately needed a lesson or two about how to be a hero without being an idiot. I hope he learned something.

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, that tamer should have died 10 times over while he was talking. Bell is just being absolutely ridiculous here.

[Kraco]

Episode 11


- --- --


Yeah, I didn't really enjoy the fight that much. The deus ex danmachina was a little bit too thick. Ais, Bete & gang fighting that xenomorphic monster would have been sweet, though. The only remotely good part was Bell charging his blade with the spell reflection, but even so it's kind of strange the reflection is stronger than the original spell. It was pretty much obvious the monster wouldn't want to listen to the tamer's annoying ramblings, unlike Bell and Ryu, who seem to possess +1000% resistance to madmen speeches. The Tamer finally kicking the bucket was the best part of the episode, no doubt about it.

Now I hope the monster lost Bell & Ryu's trail and those two just need to survive the far too deep layer facing its ordinary dangers.

Another annoying thing was Bell's party acting like absolute n00bs. I get it that it's hard to even imagine leaving Bell behind, but what good would all of them dying do? When they noticed the floor boss spawning, they took all the time in the world to get moving and thus failed to flee. Such amateurs have no business being anywhere near floor 27. They should restart from floor 1.

[Buffalobiian]

Yeah, I don't know if it was that the reflection was supposed to be stronger than the original, or that Bell just wanted to use the move as a distraction in order to surprise the monster.

[David75]

Bell got his 10 minutes rewind, I forgot she was Marie. Instant arm reattach and fully healed/functionnal as if nothing ever happened...

I get it that Bell will probably be the first adventurer to evolve to level 5, so he needs to overcome hardships. But maybe that's a little too much ?

Speaking about levels: my guess is that that white floors tale is from low level adventurers compared to Bell now.

[Kraco]

I get it that Bell will probably be the first adventurer to evolve to level 5, so he needs to overcome hardships. But maybe that's a little too much ?

What do you mean? Every one of the strong adventurers has evolved to level 5 normally, as far as I know. I might be remembering wrong, but aren't Ais, Bete, Ottarl (I think that was he, the dude serving the sexy goddess Freya), and maybe some others, level 6 now?

[Buffalobiian]

I thought many of them are lvl 5. Ais should be 5, as are some of her buddies in that guild. I think Finn may be level 6 and the head guy from Freya's guild is lvl 7

[David75]

Oh, I did not catch that. I thought at some point Ais was to be the first level 5 in history. Maybe I got that wrong, first season it was, long ago.

[Kraco]

Oh, I did not catch that. I thought at some point Ais was to be the first level 5 in history. Maybe I got that wrong, first season it was, long ago.

Ais is famous for leveling up in an unmatched record time. That is, before Bell appeared and broke those records by being even faster. But yeah, it's not like Ais would be the strongest person around, she just got strong quicker than those before her.

[DarthEnderX]

12

---

Fuck, are we STILL on this?!

I'm so bored by this now.

[Kraco]

The party is putting up quite a decent fight against the twin-headed sea dragon. Probably because while the thing has two devastatingly powerful special skills, it's clearly not too smart.

I'm a little bit disappointed the disaster monster found Bell & Ryu so fast. Considering those two are half dead, they can't really fight. Not that they could have fought against it from the beginning. If they can't fight, they must deal with it by other means. I hope it will be innovative.

I was getting deadly bored of the despondent sunday prophet girl's depression, so it's great she got over it for the time being.

[DarthEnderX]

Everyone in the show is boring! Hestia is the only fun character, and she's been sidelined for 2 seasons now!

[KrayZ33]

The whole "speaking monster" thing ruined the show.
The Mermaid is just another example of this.

The show and dungeon should've remained a reverse "SAO Tower"

[Kraco]

The whole "speaking monster" thing ruined the show.
The Mermaid is just another example of this.

The show and dungeon should've remained a reverse "SAO Tower"

If it had remained that simple, the story would have been over very soon. The bigger story is obviously more complicated, but sometimes I do feel like the anime, maybe also the original novels, I wouldn't know, can't really handle the deeper things in a very smooth manner. I'm especially annoyed by the frequent Uranus scenes, which try really hard to be all mysterious, grandiose, and foreboding, but in the end it never feels like they achieve anything. Nevertheless, the situation is not static, that much is clear. Maybe the talking and feeling monsters are the dungeon's way of trying to break the stalemate.

Nothing should ever be SAO anything.

[KrayZ33]

A rogue god and the in-fighting between the gods themselves are enough material for multiple seasons.
Not to mention what is going on with all the characters themselves and their pasts.
The mystery of the dungeon itself and why the gods don't do jack in there or aren't allowed and the purpose of it etc. is still mostly unknown. (Pandora's box or something?)

The dungeon could've - and probably should've - remained a place without allies.
Now a monster can show up at any point that is part of the "Xenos group" and help Bell, which is exactly what has happened here.
The mermaid came out of flipping nowhere and is all alone and somehow able to survive just fine for no real reason other than running away, but running away for some reason doesn't work for anyone else as the dungeon shits out monsters left and right.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't care about the CGI twin dragon fight.
I do care about the whole Deep Floor thing. That seems interesting and unexplored. I agree with Krayz33 in that with the introduction of Xenos floating around, I'm expecting Minotaur to come save the day if things get rough.

[Kraco]

13


- ---- - - -


Aside from Bell losing his cool all the time, the deep floors part is actually pretty nice. It's the minimal resources, 1 HP adventure that one could only clear in a game with copious amounts of saves and reloads. Ryu and Bell's cooperation works well, which is enjoyable to watch for a Ryu fan.

However, Cassandra is really getting on my nerves. Assuming she makes it out alive, she should immediately stop being an adventurer and never enter the dungeon again. She's a giant, unnecessary weakness for any group. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if now, believing she caused Haruhime to sacrifice herself, Cassandra still wouldn't try anything to make up for it. I bet she will still keep standing still, wallowing in absolute self-pity. I should give props to the author for creating such a detestable character.

[Buffalobiian]

The deep floors give a "Exploring caves in a FromSoftware Game" vibe, which is great.

As for the dragon bossfight, I was waiting all episode for the spell that Chibi asked the spellcasters to ready, but it never happened. I reckon Haruhime got rescued there by the rescue party people.

[Kraco]

I reckon Haruhime got rescued there by the rescue party people.

That's what I'm expecting as well. There's no way a girl picked up by Bell would die. Even if he didn't pick her up in the dungeon.

[Kraco]

Episode 14


- - - - - - -


The dragon fight conclusion was better than I expected. It was kind of dodgy, but I didn't dislike it. Did Haruhime have a fire resistance cloak? I don't remember anymore, but it felt like the video paid attention to her cloak flying away. I guess there had to be a reason to why she survived. Mikoto's spell also finished, thanks to her pearl hunting lungs. I think I preferred this sort of ending to one where they simply get rescued.

What comes to Bell and Ryu, nothing happened, but I still can't help but be baffled by how they don't check to see if the corpses still carry some usable gear. Bell and Ryu have absolutely nothing, apart from daggers, basically, but the cadavers seemed promising.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought there was going to be something safe about the "rooms" being dead ends, but nope they're literally just dead ends. Monsters will still approach.

As for the dragon, yeah I enjoyed it more than I expected. Mikoto just survived lol. No rescue, just... endured the fish and suffocation.

edit: Also, another case of official subs not necessarily being error-free - Mikoto says they can't win, not unless she's willing to risk her life. The subs say she can't lose, which was confusing.

[Buffalobiian]

S4E15

-----------------








-Lily got picked up by her giant backpack, lol.
-Haruhime wasn't even in the "Do you trust the blacksmith" shots. She was out cold.
-Fuck yeah Aisha being the MVP. No Lily, don't blame the lvl4. Her confidence might stem from that, but the rest is just being level headed and observant.

[Kraco]

It was so joyous Cassandra only managed to get "despair" out of her mouth a single time. Maybe in the next episode it will be zero times. Perhaps if the Ryu rescue squad joins them, despair would be gone for a little while. At least until they bump into the abomination.

Starting weapon smithing in the middle of the dungeon with some stove that looks barely enough to bake potatoes is something I didn't expect. But then again, it is a fantasy world. It making magic weapons is so easy, it makes sense to do it.

[DarthEnderX]

The fact that magic weapons are so disposable in the first place is something I don't like about this setting.

But then, they're also pretty much just magic wands in this show. Which is also dumb.

[Kraco]

I can actually appreciate the magic weapons being so short-lived. It ensures that not everybody can be equipped with them or alternatively their use must be extremely carefully regulated, since they are pretty powerful. The effects are replicable with attack spells, but competent magicians seem to be relatively rare and they tire out quite fast. Plus magicians need protection by fighters.

But yeah, it's like a strange cultural thing the magic weapons look like melee weapons when they act like magic wands. Maybe such a design thing developed to make fighters carry them more confidently? Perhaps in the distant past they looked like wands, but fighters didn't want to carry them out of embarrassment, since they looked like they belonged to magicians.

[DarthEnderX]

Of course, they also still have more traditional magic weapons as well, cause both of Bell's knives are just, like, enhanced melee weapons.

[David75]

Aisha's sword doesn't seem to be limited in use.
It rather feels to me that Welf swords have that limitation.
Bell's blade was forged by Welf's latest master and that blade doesn't seem to have limited use either.
My guess is that Welf is a genius blacksmith in the making. His swords break because he infuses them with magical attributes to a level never seen before, but he has yet to find a way to make them more durable. When it happens is when he approaches God like mastery of his craft.

But it's possible I overlooked other weapons being shortlived.

[DarthEnderX]

His swords break because he infuses them with magical attributes to a level never seen before, but he has yet to find a way to make them more durable.Or his materials have just been crap.

[shinta|hikari]

Only Welf's magic weapons break quickly, and it is sort of part of the weapon spec itself. It is a disposable but powerful tool that only Welf and his family can produce.

[Buffalobiian]

I wasn't aware of Aisha's sword having any particular magical property.
Bell's was appraised to be useless until he held it - then it becomes something essentially indestructible as well as allowing mana channeling - it it in and of itself didn't allow Bell to use any magic that he did not already possess.
I can't remember what his green slender dagger was about.

Welf's weapons are limited use spells that also act as weapons (presumably - though using them as one might ruin their durability - for example, using the nearly-shattered fire weapon he had to attack might shatter it prematurely). They seem to allow anyone to use them to the proficiency crafted by Welf.

[David75]

I was not precise enough, true.
Classes of weapons I've seen:
-Regular non magical weapons: Aisha's sword and Big Guy's Axe. Some of Lion's short swords ? No mana storage/conductivity long life
-Bell's mid-size sword, long knife: Mana conductive blade, needs loads of mana. Long life.
-Welf swords: mana/spell storage. Versatile, powerful but limited use. Around 5 uses or less depending on power output ?

[shinta|hikari]

Bell's sword doesn't require mana to be used. It requires him as a user, and has a built in mana conductive blade to make use of his firebolt spell. The way he normally uses it is just like any other blade.

[Kraco]

Episode 16


- - -



Good thing MPC-HC has the (common) functionality of jumping 5 seconds forward by pressing the right arrow. Because I used that functionality quite a few times during the beginning of this episode. I have no idea why they must insert that blather in these episodes. Flashbacks can be tedious, even if they weren't purposefully made so, because they stop the progress of the actual story. Ryuu is a popular character, so I don't believe those boring segments are needed to make people care for her.

Anyway, it seems like Welf's previous magic weapons might have been somewhat inferior in quality/materials, even if not in power. Still, this new one does need mana from the user. Who knows how it all works.

It was kind of surprising how distasteful both Ryuu and Bell found taking stuff from the cadavers. At least I finally did get my answer to the question of why they didn't check them before. Maybe there's some sense to it, seeing how the adventurers are all basically colleagues, all of them raiding that one dungeon regularly. There would automatically be some respect among them, at least in death. It's a job that may kill them at any time, and they all know it. But still, in that super desperate situation, Bell's hesitation was too strong. He's still wet behind the ears. He got a little bit of Ryuu fanservice out of it, though, to relieve his pain.

[Buffalobiian]

For people who go around killing monsters and are willing to die trying, having second thoughts about looting bodies just seems strange.
A dead body is no good to anyone unless you're going to dissect it for something.

Maybe our generation is just too used to RPGs and we loot everything and anything.

[shinta|hikari]

Looting corpses is driven by desperation as the primary motivator. No one who loots does it for fun and enjoyment, unless they are crazy. If Bell (or most adventurers) weren't desperate, they wouldn't even consider looting human remains, regardless if they were fellow adventurers or not. Humans have always had a certain respect for the dead, even when they eat them.

[DarthEnderX]

Literally "My strength is my friends!" cliche.


Episode 16Good thing MPC-HC has the (common) functionality of jumping 5 seconds forward by pressing the right arrow. Because I used that functionality quite a few times during the beginning of this episodeI've been doing that for the entirely of the last 4 episodes...

Elf backstory? *clickclickclick*
Cleric still freaking out? *clickclickclick*
Hestia on screen? ...
5 minutes of hacking at lizardmen? *clickclickclick*


Humans have always had a certain respect for the dead, even when they eat them.Mmm, that's never been my(admittedly fictional)experience with bodies found in the wild. You always take anything useful from a body. If you also want to be respectful, you either bury the body, or return it home. But you don't bury the useful items with the body or just leave them lying around.

Worst case scenario, you'd just be leaving the loot around for some monster to pick up, and then use it to kill someone else.

[KrayZ33]

During medieval times (and obviously far before that as well), people would sometimes even start looting bodies/corpses while the battle was still going on.

soo... *shrug*

[shinta|hikari]

People in medieval times were desperate compared to modern times. They are especially more desperate if they had to fight in a battle or be around a battlefield.

Bell and Lyu were desperate so they looted. If they were just strolling in the upper floors and saw a bunch of corpses, they would probably bring them up instead of looting them.

[KrayZ33]

The motivation was getting lots of money and a better life, not survival itself.

It's a different kind of "desperate", but it's still more or less about "fun" and living the easy life.
The point (about people starting to loot mid-battle) was that they didn't just loot to survive, they looted to get ahead.

Not to mention that the looting was actually a business on it's own and no fucks were given about the people being dead. Mercenary groups for example had *squads* of pillagers and looters that would sweep in after the battle, get anything worth shit and then the loot would be distributed properly among everyone.

But this is anime, and not a historical one, so obviously Bell wouldn't loot like that.

[shinta|hikari]

Even with how you describe it, it sounds like a way for desperate people to get money. I don't think rich and powerful people were spending their time looting corpses in battlefields for fun. Mercenaries are also desperate people. Who would choose that dangerous and difficult lifestyle if they could just be a noble or a rich merchant?

[Kraco]

It's possible looting happened a lot more a little bit earlier in Orario's history, when it was much more chaotic, with Evilus still in the picture. In fact they would have been surely looting even living people (that is, violent robbing). I doubt the more upright adventurers would have minded looting defeated Evilus members either. But maybe things changed somewhat after Evilus was beaten and things calmed down. There might have been a backlash against not respecting fellow adventurers at all, as it could have reminded of the chaotic time. We have seen a few times that adventurers generally frown on stealing kills, leading monsters upon other adventurer parties, and such. But of course there are also a lot of adventurers with a very poor attitude, such most of the folks living permanently or semi-permanently in the safe zone town in the dungeon.

[DarthEnderX]

Even with how you describe it, it sounds like a way for desperate people to get money. I don't think rich and powerful people were spending their time looting corpses in battlefields for fun.To be fair, you wouldn't be able to get rich that way. Real people don't normally drop chests of gold or magic items worth a small fortune when they die in battle.

[KrayZ33]

Even with how you describe it, it sounds like a way for desperate people to get money. I don't think rich and powerful people were spending their time looting corpses in battlefields for fun. Mercenaries are also desperate people. Who would choose that dangerous and difficult lifestyle if they could just be a noble or a rich merchant?

I urge you to read up a little on the roman times.
It doesn't sound desperate to me when half the army is ordered to pillage, while the other half of the army holds position in case of an enemy attack. And they did so often without blinking an eye, because they knew they would get their fair share of the loot.
All these soldiers were paid properly and they wouldn't be free of service for another 5-20 years or so, so it's not like they had much of a personal use or even a place to sell it for or send it to.

As for the rich and noble, they bought these items as souvenirs. They didn't go on the battlefield to collect them themselves because they are rich and lazy, not because they don't want them or they had respect for the dead.
The Romans didn't *vote* for war so often because they "had" to. They voted for it for the money and the gains, since the conquered would most often be pillaged and sold into slavery and all they owned would go to soldiers and to Rome itself.

And I don't think you are actually talking about "desperate" people. Drug dealers for example aren't usually "desperate", they just want quick money. Same with mercenaries back then, merchants and artisans would not rarely turn mercenary simply because it would pay better.

[shinta|hikari]

War in itself is a desperate situation. Medieval times in general, unless you were well off, are desperate times. Why do you think armies are ordered to pillage? It's because armies needed supplies, and when they don't have a steady supply route, they need to pillage and loot.

Those people looted without blinking an eye because that's what they needed to do to survive. If they didn't, they would have trouble keeping the army and themselves fed.

They didn't do it because it was fun or honorable. They did it because it was necessary.

As time went on and we became more affluent as a society, looting dead people became a crime. Humans already saw it as immoral, so societies decided to outlaw it, but that was only practical because we can afford to not loot for survival.

I think the main difference in our POV is I think medieval times, where you say looting is commonplace, is a terrible time where many people barely survived. There are a lot of old barbaric practices that we have done away with because of improved civilization and technology. Looting is just one of them.

To add, many human civilizations treated their dead with respect, some with very elaborate funeral and burial practices. Compared to other animals, humans treat human corpses well when they can. When they can't because they need to survive, I see that as desperation.

[KrayZ33]

Well, that's just not true. Fun was a big part of it and it was a get rich quick scheme for many of them.
What do you think the Vikings went on raids for.

They did it because they were so hungy and had to plunder England due to that?

[shinta|hikari]

We can agree to disagree. I have a more optimistic view of people. I believe a lot of cruelty and lack of humanity is attributed to a lack of resources, comfort, and stability.

If you mean during war, a lot of soldiers enjoyed looting corpses and pillaging homes and raping people, that is also something I attribute to desperation. Soldiers suffer through a lot of PTSD, physical wear and damage, so they turn barbaric when let loose upon their enemies (even non-combatants). Those are people in a very bad situation (i.e. desperate).

Even today, soldiers are recruited from the poor and desperate. It isn't usually a profession one goes into for fulfillment unless they are violent and sociopathic, which is a small minority in the population.

EDIT:
To address your edit, I just wanted to point out that invasions and colonization were either done because of a lack of resources for survival, or greed. I agree that when politicians and generals decide to go to war for territory and whatnot, they aren't really desperate. But the soldiers and civilians that are thrust into bloody conflict because of those decisions are desperate, or become so due to the war.

[Kraco]

If I was an ancient commander, I'd allow looting enemy corpses, but the personal, valuable possessions from corpses of my own troops would be shipped to the surviving family members, if possible. If not possible, they would be used for the sake of the whole army. Of course weapons and such could be used in any immediate battle if necessary. If your own comrade becomes nothing but a lucrative money bag the moment he eats a sword, it would erode discipline, comradeship, and morale. KrayZ33 seems to suggest the Romans didn't care. Well, maybe in the middle of a battle nobody has time for extra thoughts and survival is the only thing that matters.

Just in case, this is what this whole discussion was about because the adventurers in the dungeon are all on the same side, technically, unless they belong the Evilus remnant. The other side, the enemy, are the monsters and the dungeon itself. Of course there could be individual ill feelings between the various familia, because that's how humans work.

[DarthEnderX]

We can agree to disagree. I have a more optimistic view of people. I believe a lot of cruelty and lack of humanity is attributed to a lack of resources, comfort, and stability.And a lot of it isn't. Infinite resources for everyone would stop a lot of war and crime, but you'd still have assholes.

[shinta|hikari]

Absolutely, but having assholes versus humanity being mostly assholes is different. If the world were truly mostly made up of assholes, we would probably have gone extinct long ago.

[Kraco]

Episode 17



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I feel like I first need to laugh at the title of the next episode: Desperate. Surely things have been quite desperate for a while now, especially for Ryuu and Bell.

Zero Cassandra despair lines in this episode, which alone is a huge relief. That being said, aside from Bell and Ryuu bonding, it feels like this hardly moved anywhere before the very end. The Xenos ought to be very nice reinforcements in this situation. Although the Nyaa Ryuu rescue group is quite close. I don't think those girls and the Xenos necessarily mix well. But who knows, if the Xenos don't mind being found out in the dungeon. On the other hand, it's not like that group would have an absolute monster hater like Ais or a battle maniac like Bete, so they might listen to reason.

[Kraco]

Episode 18




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The dungeon crawl, in two locations, and the endless hordes of enemies are seriously straining the animation budget. It started to be pretty nonexistent in this episode, just still images with slashes of light on top of them.

As much as I like Ryuu, this is getting too stretched, even when I skip the unnecessary and boring episode opening flashbacks. If there was a good animation budget, then this could be more varied and the fights/survival actually enjoyable to watch, but now it's just painful. I hope the colosseum, whatever it stands for, will be better, but I won't dare to hope for too much.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm still digging the From-Soft-ness of the bleak caves and constant hum.

For monsters that are supposedly very intelligent in combat, they seem to give zero fucks about friendly fire.

[DarthEnderX]

It's like watching an LP with two of the most boring Vtubers ever...

[Kraco]

Episode 19


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Nothing in this episode gave me the feeling they both absolutely couldn't have escaped and thus Ryuu had to sacrifice herself. The fact Bell was able to circle back and Ryuu was still alive means they had plenty of leeway. They could have both crossed the bridge and then destroyed it behind themselves. I suppose the problem was that Ryuu had convinced herself of the need to sacrifice herself and thus she was only looking for the opportunity to do it, necessary or not. If Bell had more wits, seeing how Ryuu had been behaving ever since they dropped down to the deep levels, he should have told Ryuu, before they entered the colosseum, that he will have none of the staying behind nonsense. If he told Ryuu straight and adamantly that if she tries to remain behind to buy Bell time, then he will just come back for her, she wouldn't have had any choice but abandon the plan. Alas, he's too stupid to read other people at all. He's full of his hero complex, yet he actually hasn't got a clue what the people he's saving might be thinking or feeling. But perhaps that's something that goes hand in hand with being a hero.

[Buffalobiian]

There was the part where Ryu cleared the whole bridge and carried Bell across with her attack. It'd come down to whether destroying the bridge was critical to killing the monsters, or whether Ryu's attack would have wiped them out anyway. I can't be sure.

What I do feel however, is that the intelligence and power level of the Deep Floor monsters have taken a nosedive.

Now they're dying in one swipe, the attacks don't really phase the two anymore, they get tricked by a cloak and smell.. they're just back to fodder again when just a few episodes ago each encounter felt like a miniboss.

[Kraco]

Now they're dying in one swipe, the attacks don't really phase the two anymore, they get tricked by a cloak and smell.. they're just back to fodder again when just a few episodes ago each encounter felt like a miniboss.

That's a good point. I suppose one could argue the infinitely spawning colosseum monsters aren't real monsters, they are weak, mass produced imitations for whatever purpose the colosseum exists (development of new monsters?), but I reckon it's just the usual weakness and error in the plot.

[David75]

I guessed the same, on that floor the further away you are from the coloseum, the stronger the monsters.
Why ? They escaped the coloseum trials and further infighting.
The first skullsheep used camouflage and wait for an opportunity to strike.
The closer we got to the coloseum, the monster acted with less wits.
So the menace shifted from single monsters with some level of intelligence, to large numbers but without any strategy/wits.
Danger is still there because our pair doesn't have any more bombs to clear a path.

[DarthEnderX]

I was half expecting them to suddenly be rewarded.

Like Bell said, seems like the purpose of the place is to test something. And maybe nobody has actually hung around and fought there for very long because there doesn't seem to be a benefit to it. But by sticking around and killing so many monsters, maybe it triggers some kind of prize.

Either way, I'm expecting Bell to go up multiple levels when he gets back. :p

[Buffalobiian]

I'm expecting that the monsters stop spawning if you kill them all at once.

[Kraco]

I'm expecting that the monsters stop spawning if you kill them all at once.

If he creates big enough an explosion to kill all the monsters at once, wouldn't Bell and Ryuu die at the same time?

[Buffalobiian]

Depends on whether they're wearing Plot Armour.

Logically yes. Logically also we just watched Bell run through a bunch of monsters and they just stood there watching him dunk a nuke.

[David75]

Monsters spawn from the coloseum walls. I'd say you'd need to destroy the coloseum walls ?

[DarthEnderX]

Monsters spawn from the coloseum walls. I'd say you'd need to destroy the coloseum walls ?Won't that just spawn another Juggernaut?!

[David75]

Won't that just spawn another Juggernaut?!
Probably... My guess is Bell beating the Juggernaut is what will bring him to level 5.
So now we need ways to spawn Juggernauts to get more level 5 adventurers :-)

Side joke appart, I wrote destroy the walls, but maybe there's some other way to stop the spawning.

[Buffalobiian]

The whole "The dungeon is testing something" is ominous. It makes it sound like the dungeon is testing a mechanic or itself/monsters rather than testing how adventurers will deal with a situation (constantly respawning monsters).

[David75]

It's some kind of evolution for monsters. Several generations spawning fast so that they survive better and get stronger.
If the average level of adventurers is too high, the dungeon is going to die at some point if you assume it needs to keep a balance of mana or any other form of transaction you can think of.
The coloseum might be a place to increase the monster base level to keep that balance.

[Buffalobiian]

Then I imagine it hasn't worked so far because it'd producing a monster that can survive all the waves so it actually uses the place as a training ground instead of a sacrificial one.

The only monster I remember that actually got stronger over time was the Minotaur that Freya's top gun trained up. As far as the colosseum is depicted, it looks like all the monsters are dying in a quick manner and none of them are surviving long enough to level up (or leave).

[David75]

It feels like computer AI training, it's totally dumb at first... but eventually finds ways to do stuff.
I remind you the first skullsheeps Bell fought were somewhat cunning, had a strategy and so on.
With more time, the level can rise.

[Kraco]

Perhaps the dungeon is testing and developing something we just don't see immediately, but which might actually benefit from such weak monsters. Like logistics. If there are some rules to how the dungeon can create monsters (how powerful, how many, how fast, on which floors), the dungeon could be looking for ways to stretch some limitations. Or maybe the dungeon is looking for weird mutations, such as intelligence. It might need to go through a thousand specimens for something to appear. If the monsters were tough and few, it would take a long time to see result. If they are numerous and are replaced rapidly, more test subjects could be observed in much shorter time.

Was the xenos origins mentioned? If it wasn't, maybe they are such aberrations that had enough wits to leave the colosseum, instead of sticking around to fight to death.

[Buffalobiian]

Xenos just gained sentience once day. They also varied in strength so battle experience didn't seem to be a major part of it.

[shinta|hikari]

Xenos are like random mutations.

Monsters get stronger by consuming crystals from other monsters. We know this from the minotaur Bell fought and also the enemy in Sword Oratoria.

[DarthEnderX]

The REAL question is...how they gonna get mermaid back to Xenos town?

[Kraco]

Episode 20


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Even the beginning flashback this time was mostly worth watching.

It's quite funny the super monster was more interested in slaying the Astrea family members, not the ones who actually destroyed that part of the dungeon. As powerful as it is otherwise, it seems like it has no more wits than a rabid animal. Of course it's natural the dungeon hates all adventurers, so in that sense it makes no difference whom it kills, but if it concentrates on killing those that are trying to stop the destroyers, while sparing the destroyers themselves, it only leads to a repetition of the incident. And it indeed did. Not smart at all.

Now Bell is even making the killing-her-own-emotions elf blush. Such a lady-killer. It would be nice if Ryuu joined the Hestia family as well, but I guess she'll be sticking to the inn, wasting her talents.

[Buffalobiian]

I liked the violence here, where cuts actually dismember, lightning just deleted someone and fire attacks cause are devastating and cruel.

It's just refreshing to see attacks being effective besides causing "minor cosmetic damage" to characters (not necessarily isolated to this anime, but in anime in general).

[Kraco]

It's difficult to show major injuries if the characters are supposed to survive. However, since these ones were destined to die, it was certainly the best option to go for it. We have seen before how brutal that particular monster is. That being said, after dropping to the deep floors, Bell and Ryuu have actually been in quite a beaten up shape consistently. Half the time Ryuu hasn't even been able to walk.

[shinta|hikari]

And Bell's left hand is still a mangled mess.

The other characters simply never got injured this badly or torn to pieces. If average level 2-4s face off against the Juggernaut, they would get massacred too. The only reason Bell and Lyu are still alive is because they are at the extreme end of the bell curve in terms of power and ability for level 4s. Lyu has been stuck as level 4 since she escaped the first Juggy because she can't level up without Astraea, and Bell is Bell with the OP Realis Freese which affects the quality of his leveling, effectively making him a weaker level 5 already. Also mermaid cheat.

[Kraco]

Episode 21


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Although I can't understand how this arc can last for the whole season, despite being about nothing but getting out of the dungeon, I do feel like the scene of Bell and Ryuu lying together, collapsed and powerless after the Juggernaut left, was actually a really good death scene for two characters who cared for each other until the very last moment of their life. They gave everything they had and fell frustrated but satisfied, knowing they did what they could and watched each other's backs till the end, dying in a loving embrace.

Only, they aren't actually going to die, but the season of dungeon escape will still stretch and stretch like Stretch Armstrong. This is almost like a Steven Seagal movie, which has material for 20 minutes, but since the contract is for 90 minutes, there needs to be something to fill it all up.

[Buffalobiian]

I do enjoy that we're finally picking up girls in dungeons.

In season 1 Ais was picking up Little Rooking, not the other way around.
Lili doesn't count.
Hestia and Haruhime were mostly outside the dungeon.
The Xenos girl counts, but she was also mostly rehabbed outside the dungeon, though she was most definitely picked up from within.
Mermaid and Ryu were all from this season - and it mostly coincides with Bell being actually strong enough now to be reliable, as opposed to being a promising little rookie.

That said, when Bell got to the deep floors he was certainly out of his depth.

In other news though, so Bell's back tattoo only activates when his goddess is looking at it and others can't peek when he's naked? I got the impression that they could in past seasons.

[Kraco]

In other news though, so Bell's back tattoo only activates when his goddess is looking at it and others can't peek when he's naked? I got the impression that they could in past seasons.

I can't, honestly, anymore remember exactly how those adventurers' tattoos work. I also thought someone once spied a look at Bell's tattoo, but maybe it was another god or goddess? Adventurers wouldn't need a deity to check their status if anyone could see the tattoo. Maybe they still would need one for level ups? Although the contents of Bell's tattoo may be a little bit peculiar, the general mechanism should still be the same as for anyone else's adventurer's tattoo, right? If you can't see Ryuu's tattoo, you can't see Bell's tattoo. Unless Hestia was so poor she couldn't afford to add the (paid) feature of having it disappear from everyone's sight. However, surely such an omission would be fixed by now.

[DarthEnderX]

At this point, I feel like I'm still on Namek...

[Shadow Skill]

This season feels long and drawn out for no reason. The LN didn't feel this long when I read past this part.