Shokugeki no Soma

[Munsu]

I'm pretty sure Souma would've beaten Mimasaka without knowing his copy ability. Why? He's the protagonist.

Kidding aside, you didn't answer this question: "[COLOR=#333333]What exactly did he do different from all the defeated opponents who did improv?"

First we really don't know the circumstances under which previous opponents did their improv, so seems silly to speculate on this.

But preparedness comes to mind.




And I think you missed this edit:

"Now if you're saying that Mimasaka wasn't able to predict how Souma planned to pull the whole dish together, then that makes the least sense. Because [I]why? Why wouldn't Mimasaka predict that final dish? He knew about the oxtail stew, knew about Souma's past, knew about the beef parts, and even knew that they were gonna be used as garnish. He even prepared a targeted counter, a time-consuming bacon garnish. Why did Mimasaka think he would win until the judges started tasting Souma's dish..? Why was Souma's dish so different and unpredictable from everyone else's Mimasaka defeated?

He's the protagonist, that's why."

Now if you're saying that Souma evolved past anything Mimasaka could predict, that's actually supporting my point. Why did everyone else fail to do that, including Aldini? Weren't they motivated enough to defeat Mimasaka, despite having their beloved tools on the line? What makes Souma so different?

Why you keep bringing Aldini when he learned his recipe was being copied halfway through his baking? Heck he put his tool on the line for the match minutes before the competition. It makes no sense that you're drawing comparisons as if they were playing on equal terms when the scenarios are completely different. And that's probably how Mimasaka has done it in previous instances, ambushing people that way.

Souma was different because he KNEW who he was facing, his tricks, and had ample time to think how to get past that. More than that he also had the experience and skills to do so, while at the same time not needing to practice his dish or giving hints on what he was actually making other a general concept of a stew. Whether you buy that or not, that's up to you.



Again, plot armor.

Ok.



Like I've said 3x now, this conclusion isn't unbelievable per se. It is just extremely unsatisfying.The trace ability deserved better treatment. Heck, I came up with a more reasonable way of beating it on the fly. Improv ftw.

That's fine. Again, all I took exception was the idea behind that ALL Souma did was use his experience and skills to bludgeon his way through Mimasaka, and that by extension it was an insult for some reason to past opponents. It completely ignores the nature of competition.

It seems to also ignore that had Souma not taken steps to hide what his final dish would become, that he would've won anyways because experience + skillz. That'd be false. He didn't EVOLVE beyond Mimasaka as opposed what others did, he simply did a pseudo improv, just they're not calling it that. Yes, his skills + experience play into it, because few in this school can match it as it is, but those steps he took made the difference to beat Mimasaka in a match he probably would've lost otherwise.

[shinta|hikari]

Like I said, what steps? What's a pseudo improv? You either improvise or you plan. Those are mutually exclusive. And no, "planning to improvise" doesn't count. I'll give you that Souma had prepared ingredients (which I wanna repeat Mimasaka knew about), so it wasn't completely out of inspiration, but the preparation part and thus the final dish is a product of improvisation.

What Souma did is nothing special. It's only natural to bring your best to the table. It's only natural to hide info and improvise if your opponent profiles and copies you. It's only natural to learn about the enemy before facing them, especially with valuable tools on the line. Are you saying none of the other people who defeated Mimasaka did any of this? Now that's unbelievable.

I never said (aside from that joke) that Souma would've won without knowing what he faced. What I did say is that I'm surprised no one else apparently knew what they were facing, or took measures against it. Except we know that's not true because Mimasaka explicitly stated that people do know about his trace and do take measures against it, 2 types of counters, to be exact.

Souma took the 2nd one. The show just disguised it as something else, namely experience ejaculation. I called that bullshit in my first post about it, and it still is many down the line. Souma didn't think of a way to get past the trace ability. He simply came up with an awesome dish which apparently Mimasaka failed to copy because of... reasons...

I like Buff's explanation. Mimasaka is small fry, and everyone else he defeated is small fry, including Aldini, who I'm pretty sure is well behind Souma's current self now. If Mimasaka faced one of the elite ten or even the other finalists in this contest, he would've been obliterated.

[MFauli]

Munsu, you can keep explaining it all you want. At the end of the day, Soma won because the plot demanded it. Not because of what he actually did.

We had learned that this guy´s copy ability is above anyone. He WILL know what you´re cooking, he WILL know how you´ll try and one-up him, and he WILL go one step beyond your expectations. That´s what we´ve been shown.

Then Some beat him because he couldn´t be predicted. Just because.

It´s not satisfying.

[NeoCybercoin]

I admit it would have been better if one judge voted for Mimasaka.

[Munsu]

Like I said, what steps? What's a pseudo improv? You either improvise or you plan. Those are mutually exclusive. And no, "planning to improvise" doesn't count. I'll give you that Souma had prepared ingredients (which I wanna repeat Mimasaka knew about), so it wasn't completely out of inspiration, but the preparation part and thus the final dish is a product of improvisation.

What Souma did is nothing special. It's only natural to bring your best to the table. It's only natural to hide info and improvise if your opponent profiles and copies you. It's only natural to learn about the enemy before facing them, especially with valuable tools on the line. Are you saying none of the other people who defeated Mimasaka did any of this? Now that's unbelievable.

I never said (aside from that joke) that Souma would've won without knowing what he faced. What I did say is that I'm surprised no one else apparently knew what they were facing, or took measures against it. Except we know that's not true because Mimasaka explicitly stated that people do know about his trace and do take measures against it, 2 types of counters, to be exact.

Souma took the 2nd one. The show just disguised it as something else, namely experience ejaculation. I called that bullshit in my first post about it, and it still is many down the line. Souma didn't think of a way to get past the trace ability. He simply came up with an awesome dish which apparently Mimasaka failed to copy because of... reasons...

I like Buff's explanation. Mimasaka is small fry, and everyone else he defeated is small fry, including Aldini, who I'm pretty sure is well behind Souma's current self now. If Mimasaka faced one of the elite ten or even the other finalists in this contest, he would've been obliterated.

Ah, so you arbitrarily remove "plan to improvise" from the table because it doesn't fit your narrative? OK. I call it pseudo improv because what he did was really an improv in many regards, the anime is simply giving a BS about why it's not called improv. What's not clear is WHAT part was actually improvised or not. That's what is most unclear about this, but there was no doubt that he brought elements of both foresight and planning while doing some improv as well. Whatever.

As for the other point about why no one took these steps, or why no one seemed to really know who they were facing, yes that's a complete flaw and dumb. But it's also true that Aldini was ignorant to it, and that Souma was ignorant to it, until the plot decided to introduce it... and then suddenly EVERYONE apparently knows. Also, you're ignoring the point that Mimasaka's MO was from ambushing people, not always on tournaments with set schedules and what not, probably outside of them. In any case, that's not what I'm arguing against, feel free to complain about it to your heart's content, since I agree it's a dumb way to come about it. It's pretty much the same shit that most shounen shows do when a new opponent comes and everyone acts surprised about some shit the opponent has been notorious for doing.

I agree with the part of the BS about calling it improv or not, but that's besides the point, it's simply a term. I just disagree with your characterization that he did nothing to take measures to get past the trace ability because he did. You don't want to buy them, that's fine. I'll still hold that Souma would've lost without those steps, else he would've faced Mimasaka straight on and produced the very same dish he was going to do and beat him that way, let him copy his dish.

As for the rest, it's irrelevant to what's being discussed.



Munsu, you can keep explaining it all you want. At the end of the day, Soma won because the plot demanded it. Not because of what he actually did.

That's a copout argument... everything is explained because the plot demanded it. That applies to all.


We had learned that this guy´s copy ability is above anyone. He WILL know what you´re cooking, he WILL know how you´ll try and one-up him, and he WILL go one step beyond your expectations. That´s what we´ve been shown.

Then Some beat him because he couldn´t be predicted. Just because.

It´s not satisfying.

Yet he himself allows for the possibility that people can improvise against him, they simply haven't managed it for whatever reason (shitty cook, not enough tools/ingredients to come up with something new, etc., etc.)

He couldn't be predicted because profile all you want, it'd be impossible to take into account every single experience Souma has gone through in his whole life, in addition to Souma taking steps to make sure many of those factors where kept hidden from Mimasaka. Yes, that applies to everyone in some regard, just the same not everyone has the cooking experience, professional and not, that Souma has. Just the opposite.

No one said it had to be satisfying, I'm not trying to convince anyone that it was. I'm simply arguing against the flawed premise you guys are using of what actually occurred. Whether you want to buy them or not, whether you found them satisfactory or not, is not my concern.

What was true of what went on, is that Souma chickened out.

[shinta|hikari]

I'll just dive right into the heart of the matter.

You're saying Souma made some preparations that allowed him to win. I'm saying that those preparations are nothing special and shouldn't have allowed him to win. But they did. Because of plot armor. If you're saying you're okay with us being unsatisfied about that, then we no longer have an argument.

[Munsu]

I'll just dive right into the heart of the matter.

You're saying Souma made some preparations that allowed him to win. I'm saying that those preparations are nothing special and shouldn't have allowed him to win. But they did. Because of plot armor. If you're saying you're okay with us being unsatisfied about that, then we no longer have an argument.

Yes, that's the heart of the matter in some regards.. in the end, whether the show wants to come out straight and call it that, Souma did a combination of both what Copy Man said opponents did against him to counter his copying. Tricked him with the dish, and did some improv. In addition to that, he had ample time to work through it, some in his head (which is important so that Copy Man doesn't, well, copy it) and some physically (the preparation with the reporter) and then whatever he came up with on a whim in the day of the competition to pull it altogether.

I'm not sure why you don't think that's nothing special in the context that anyone could've done it, because no, not everyone could've.

So yes, that's a legit counter to what Mimasaka does, which is part of what you're arguing.

And yeah, I don't care if you find it satisfying or not, everything is pure bullshit anyways (that's like the premise of the show as it is, so it's a given), but don't bring false comparisons to the table, in particular what Aldini experienced which was completely different.

[shinta|hikari]

They aren't false comparisons. They aren't exact analogies, but they hold truth in that Mimasaka held the same cards in those matches as he did in Souma's. Even if Aldini was at a large disadvantage compared to Souma in terms of preparedness, that doesn't explain why Mimasaka wasn't able to profile Souma's dish.

Mimasaka knew about the oxtail stew and the various meats for the garnish, but somehow fails to predict the final dish. That's the main point of that comparison.

The reason why I don't think Souma's preparations are anything special is because everyone else should be doing the same thing. Everyone competent, at least. If they didn't, then they don't deserve to be in an elite cooking school that is supposedly so amazing.

But let's say it is something that only Souma could do. It still doesn't matter because it is not something that should negate Mimasaka's profiling, especially with all that build up and how much Mimasaka knew going into the match.

That's why I prefer Buff's take on it. Mimasaka just sucks, and so does Aldini (Yes, not investigating your enemy in a head to head match at all is considered sucking). That would justify how this all turned out, and wouldn't go against anything shown so far. Souma simply outgrew his old rival by leaps and bounds, like that episode in Ranma.

This goes in line with your ambush argument, and how valuable being prepared was. Mimasaka was never really as good as they hyped him to be. I just wish someone said this in the episode.

[Munsu]

They aren't false comparisons. They aren't exact analogies, but they hold truth in that Mimasaka held the same cards in those matches as he did in Souma's. Even if Aldini was at a large disadvantage compared to Souma in terms of preparedness, that doesn't explain why Mimasaka wasn't able to profile Souma's dish.

Now this is more specific and a different argument though. The obvious answer is that Aldini was unaware of the steps he had to take to make sure someone like Mimasaka would be able to figure out the dish he was making. And that's just the first step.


Mimasaka knew about the oxtail stew and the various meats for the garnish, but somehow fails to predict the final dish. That's the main point of that comparison.

Yet he allows for the possibility of improvisation...


The reason why I don't think Souma's preparations are anything special is because everyone else should be doing the same thing. Everyone competent, at least. If they didn't, then they don't deserve to be in an elite cooking school that is supposedly so amazing.

As I also said, not necessarily because not everyone is facing the same circumstances and more so have the ability to improvise a good dish that's good without actually practicing said end dish.

Not everyone should be NOT PRACTICING their end recipe for example, and that's what Souma managed to do as one of the steps. You keep trying to equate this to simply trying your utmost best, when that simply is not true. It just isn't. MAYBE Souma would've been able to beat him regardless, I posture that he might have not, but we don't know now because Souma chickened out from the challenge.


But let's say it is something that only Souma could do. It still doesn't matter because it is not something that should negate Mimasaka's profiling, especially with all that build up and how much Mimasaka knew going into the match.

You keep mentioning this as a conclusion based on very flawed premises. I've already enumerated various steps taken to prevent Mimasaka from fully profiling him.


That's why I prefer Buff's take on it. Mimasaka just sucks, and so does Aldini (Yes, not investigating your enemy in a head to head match at all is considered sucking). That would justify how this all turned out, and wouldn't go against anything shown so far. Souma simply outgrew his old rival by leaps and bounds, like that episode in Ranma.

This goes in line with your ambush argument, and how valuable being prepared was. Mimasaka was never really as good as they hyped him to be. I just wish someone said this in the episode.

If Mimasaka just sucked, Souma wouldn't have to gone through all these hoops (that you don't want to acknowledge) instead of facing him straight on as he initially said he would.

Aldini and Mimasaka are good cooks objectively in this class (as objectively as cooking in anime can make it). Whether they match up with the top elites is another argument altogether to make. But that they've made it this far is proof enough that they're better than what the rest of the class has to offer.

Part of the point of the episode in Mimasaka's regard as it was stated in the episode is that Mimasaka is good enough to make his own things instead of relying on these tactics, so no, sorry but ambushing opponents does not equate to one sucking, like everything, it's a strategy to get ahead. Nothing more and nothing less.

But to your point, if you want to reduce some opponents to sucking for simply being unaware of who your opponent is, so be it.

Also, just to be clear, I'm not saying that these opponents didn't suck, they very well may have, but it's not the only explanation for what occurred AND doesn't mean that Mimasaka and Aldini suck either. They also don't invalidate what Souma HAD to do to beat Mimasaka (which again, you don't want to acknowledge has him doing).

[shinta|hikari]

It's not that I don't want to acknowledge what Souma did. What I'm not acknowledging is the author's decision to use such a lame excuse for Souma to win. If you notice from the start, I approached this episode from an entertainment standpoint. I have also said that the outcome is perfectly possible. The big problem is the hoops you mentioned aren't creative or impressive, and therefore not satisfying considering the build up.

Mimasaka was supposedly able to copy everyone and go one step beyond. That's his thing. Souma didn't break that skill. You say he sorta did by doing all those preparations. But the whole point of Mimasaka's ability is that those preparations, skill, experience, everything is negated because he profiles you and copies your dish perfectly, and then goes a step beyond. Souma didn't do anything to directly address that aspect of the battle. At the very least nothing impressive or worth all that build up. That's the main issue.

You're saying that Mimasaka failed to profile him. What part of him? His years of experience? That was the only aspect Mimasaka didn't know in detail. He knew about everything else. But wait, Mimasaka also knew about his time in Yukihira and managed to predict the oxtail stew based on that. So where exactly did Mimasaka fail?

Souma taking steps to prevent being profiled does not equate to those steps succeeding, and the episode clearly stated that Souma's attempt to hide info failed, and his attempt to improvise was foreseen, and his recipe plan was predicted.

Yet he still won. See my problem with this?

EDIT:
Also, relying on ambushes doesn't necessarily mean you suck, but it is highly suggestive of it. If you are truly a great chef, then there's no need to lower the abilities of your opponents during the battle. The fact that you need to do this means you are covering up for a weakness or gap in ability.

Why is this relevant? Because I think Mimasaka's base skill is not that high. Sure, he's better than the nameless mobs, but we're talking about the named characters here. When I said he and Aldini suck, it's in comparison to the relevant names in the show, like Souma, the other finalists, Alice, and the like. I only used the elite 10 for comparison to exaggerate the conclusion, which is him being obliterated.

Why does Mimasaka's base skill being low matter? Because that would explain how Souma won without breaking the copy skill, and how Mimasaka failed to profile Souma's final dish despite knowing everything he usually does about his opponents.

[MFauli]

This argument really keeps going in circles.

Munsu, as long as you cannot convince us that Soma did ANYTHING special to break his opponent´s "copy + 1 up"-ability, you won´t get a reply that says "oh, I can understand that".

[Munsu]

It's not that I don't want to acknowledge what Souma did. What I'm not acknowledging is the author's decision to use such a lame excuse for Souma to win.

But you haven't been doing that. You've been simply reducing what Youma did to was simply use his experience and skills and that's it. That wasn't what occurred. That you think it's lame and what not is not what is being argued. If you're ready to acknowledge that it occurred, then there's nothing to discuss.


If you notice from the start, I approached this episode from an entertainment standpoint. I have also said that the outcome is perfectly possible. The big problem is the hoops you mentioned aren't creative or impressive, and therefore not satisfying considering the build up.

That's fine if you had left it at that, but you then had to extrapolate from it for what it said about other opponents and so and such, and that's when I stepped in because all your premises are completely flawed, hence the jumped to conclusions you did.


Mimasaka was supposedly able to copy everyone and go one step beyond. That's his thing. Souma didn't break that skill. You say he sorta did by doing all those preparations. But the whole point of Mimasaka's ability is that those preparations, skill, experience, everything is negated because he profiles you and copies your dish perfectly, and then goes a step beyond. Souma didn't do anything to directly address that aspect of the battle. At the very least nothing impressive or worth all that build up. That's the main issue.

This is again where you're failing, I've already showed you what he did to directly counter it. It's very easy to see, so not sure why you keep bringing that up other than simply being stubborn about it for a reason I can't comprehend.

That you don't find it impressive or worth the build up is nothing I care to argue about, it has no relevance on the former, and that's fine.



You're saying that Mimasaka failed to profile him. What part of him? His years of experience? That was the only aspect Mimasaka didn't know in detail. He knew about everything else. But wait, Mimasaka also knew about his time in Yukihira and managed to predict the oxtail stew based on that. So where exactly did Mimasaka fail?

Souma taking steps to prevent being profiled does not equate to those steps succeeding, and the episode clearly stated that Souma's attempt to hide info failed, and his attempt to improvise was foreseen, and his recipe plan was predicted.

Yet he still won. See my problem with this?

The thing is that you're equating being profiled to copying a dish. Though related, as one feeds the other, they're not the same. Copy Man didn't fail at profiling Souma all told as you mentioned, but only so much info can be gathered, not the entirety of it... that's part of it. The copying aspect was prevented because Souma did indeed do an improv (the anime doesn't want to give it that label for reasons already discussed).

Keep in mind that most of what Copy Man brought forward to try and guess what Souma did was based on the things that Souma did practicing with the reporter. There was another component that Souma kept to himself, didn't practice it, didn't give hints about it. With the information at hand, and other observable events, Mimasaka predicted some of it, but that's where it ended.

Where Mimasaka failed that he didn't contemplate how effective Souma would be in doing an improv, a dish he's never performed, and how much preparation that dish actually had in it's creation without actually practicing it (which is the BS about it not being improv, when it actually is, hence why I call it pseudo improv).

The fact that 1) Souma faked Mimasaka on the final dish, 2) Took measures to be prepared for an improv session, 3) Took measures to ensure that the very final dish wasn't going to be copied, are evidence enough that Souma attacked Copy Man's copy skill. It's not flashy, but it is what it is, satisfactory or not.

And yes taking these measures, and in addition to his skills and experience and ability and the ability to prepare THIS particular new dish without physically practicing it, is what made this all possible. Not everyone could've done so, but he could. You can attach whatever reason you want to it, the end conclusion won't change.




EDIT:
Also, relying on ambushes doesn't necessarily mean you suck, but it is highly suggestive of it. If you are truly a great chef, then there's no need to lower the abilities of your opponents during the battle. The fact that you need to do this means you are covering up for a weakness or gap in ability.

He's NOT relying on them, and he doesn't NEED to do them. He simply does as a good tactician would do. What it does do is make him an asshole.


Why is this relevant? Because I think Mimasaka's base skill is not that high. Sure, he's better than the nameless mobs, but we're talking about the named characters here. When I said he and Aldini suck, it's in comparison to the relevant names in the show, like Souma, the other finalists, Alice, and the like. I only used the elite 10 for comparison to exaggerate the conclusion, which is him being obliterated.

Whatever. Other than you know, the great Souma shied away from facing him head on. Ambushes aside, his base skills may not be as good as Souma and company, yet Souma shied away from the direct challenge. So his skills of twisting known dishes at the very least is legit. What he's failing at is in creating his own things, and that's what Souma alluded to pretty much, that he's a good cook and shouldn't be relying on this (the copy aspect).


Why does Mimasaka's base skill being low matter? Because that would explain how Souma won without breaking the copy skill, and how Mimasaka failed to profile Souma's final dish despite knowing everything he usually does about his opponents.

You're simply rationalizing something that you don't accept because it's unsatisfying to you, nothing more and nothing less. If you want to convince yourself of a falsehood simply because it makes you get through this better, so be it. But it doesn't invalidate what Souma actually did (and didn't do for that matter) to be able to beat Copy Man and that in the end, he chickened out from doing exactly what he said he was going to do... face him head on.



This argument really keeps going in circles.

Munsu, as long as you cannot convince us that Soma did ANYTHING special to break his opponent´s "copy + 1 up"-ability, you won´t get a reply that says "oh, I can understand that".


I'm not trying to convince anyone that Souma did anything special. I'm saying he took steps to combat it, and those steps included things he and very few could actually do. Whether they're special or not, not my problem nor my interest.

That said, if you don't find cooking something new for the first time (no real practice to it or preparation other than thinking on potential ingredients and what he made do with them when the time comes) and beat an opponent in a cooking competition while doing so as not at least somehow impressive (in real terms, not in anime satisfaction context), then so be it.

Anyways, I'm tired of this whole discussion as it is. I've said what I wanted to say. I'll leave you guys the last word if you want it, won't address this issue again.

[shinta|hikari]

I'm not trying to convince anyone that Souma did anything special. I'm saying he took steps to combat it, and those steps included things he and very few could actually do. Whether they're special or not, not my problem nor my interest.

That's the problem. The only reason we are having this discussion is because we DON'T think Souma did anything special (and more importantly, not entertaining or satisfying). If that's not your problem or interest, why even argue? Even if you found issue in how I argued it, what's the point if you have no vested interest in the actual meat of the discussion? Well, that's not really important. Just thought I'd mention it because this discussion actually got so many pages.


That said, if you don't find cooking something new for the first time (no real practice to it or preparation other than thinking on potential ingredients and what he made do with them when the time comes) and beat an opponent in a cooking competition while doing so as not at least somehow impressive (in real terms, not in anime satisfaction context), then so be it.

Beating the opponent doesn't count here. We are judging Souma's actions excluding the judgment. That's only natural because we are questioning the judgment itself. We simply think he shouldn't have won with what he did. We are actually questioning WHY he could even win with a dish that he prepared for the first time against a chef that specializes in beating that kind of thing, if he didn't do anything unique to add on top of it.

Unique might be the better word to describe it (as opposed to special). Souma should've done something no one else in the past has done against Mimasaka to make this a satisfying victory. He didn't.

[Munsu]

That's the problem. The only reason we are having this discussion is because we DON'T think Souma did anything special (and more importantly, not entertaining or satisfying). If that's not your problem or interest, why even argue? Even if you found issue in how I argued it, what's the point if you have no vested interest in the actual meat of the discussion? Well, that's not really important. Just thought I'd mention it because this discussion actually got so many pages.

I'm simply trying to enumerate the facts of the matter, which for some reason are dismissed because of "unsatisfactory reasons" or such. That's my real interest here. Whatever qualifiers you want to give those facts are not my my interest to argue, but that the facts at least are accepted are.


Beating the opponent doesn't count here. We are judging Souma's actions excluding the judgment. That's only natural because we are questioning the judgment itself. We simply think he shouldn't have won with what he did. We are actually questioning WHY he could even win with a dish that he prepared for the first time against a chef that specializes in beating that kind of thing, if he didn't do anything unique to add on top of it.

Unique might be the better word to describe it (as opposed to special). Souma should've done something no one else in the past has done against Mimasaka to make this a satisfying victory. He didn't.

The only unique aspect of it in the end is doing a one-shot improv, that is not really an improv (and it's important that you understand that this is what actually happened). Take it or leave it. The rest are all steps that either people couldn't do because of their specific scenario (time-constraints, ambushes, and such) and those that actually did, didn't have the skills to see it through. And yes, some of these DO SUCK.

You want to call it bullshit or whatever, that's fine, but it IS what happened.

Hope that clarifies the stance a bit. But as MFauli mentioned, we've been going in circles, and I honestly don't care much on this (other in the interest of having a discussion on whatever), but I'm tired of the topic and it's sinking more time than I care for it.

[shinta|hikari]

It is what happened, and I think it's bullshit. What I take from your last post is that we should just accept what did happen. And we do. We just think it's unsatisfactory.

Really, this could've gone so much better if Souma (actually the author) had actually thought of a better solution to the copy than experience ejaculation. It just feels so strange how Mimasaka beat him every step of the way, from knowing the oxtail choice, to the extra meats, to the garnish challenge, but still lost randomly in the end.

[Buffalobiian]

A better way they could have shown Souma's superiority over Mimasaka would be to have the ingredients varied or be rotten / contaminated.

Say they both ordered some oxtail from Supermarket A and it ended up being contaminated or bad. They would have had to make adjustments on the fly. Mimasaka may predict what Souma would make, but he wouldn't be able to make it since he's never seen/copied it prior. His skill base wouln't let him pull it off first hand either because he's only ever copied someone's best works without experiencing the failures that came before it.

Souma would be able to come up with a decent dish first-go because of his prior experience. Something like that would be believable, but at the same time feel "cheap" all the same because Souma didn't really beat Copy.

[shinta|hikari]

I'm actually fine with Souma's dish as is. They just need to explain/rationalize how he won better than just having more EXP. I would've actually liked it if Souma simply tricked Mimasaka into thinking he was making stew + garnish but was actually making a completely different dish.

I mean, Souma didn't lie. He did make stew for the contest. But he didn't make stew only. He made several dishes and combined them into one. Mimasaka thought the extra parts were garnishes because he was so locked onto Souma's personality (straightforward) and the stew comment that he didn't realize the possibility of making a completely new fusion dish, which I think is what Souma actually made. God knows that isn't beef stew anymore, but it looked fucking awesome.

This is "unique" compared to all the other people Mimasaka defeated because it combines the 2 counters against him, hiding the dish AND improv. Not only that, it shows that people can adjust their personality for a win, breaking the profiling technique. Souma was never the type to trick people, but Mimasaka deserved to be trolled in order to understand how cheap his tactics are. That could replace the "I wanted you to see how cooking is so cool" bludgeoning that Souma did to reform this guy.

This scenario is definitely less shounen-like, but that's probably a good thing in the context of this show.

[Munsu]

I'm actually fine with Souma's dish as is. They just need to explain/rationalize how he won better than just having more EXP. I would've actually liked it if Souma simply tricked Mimasaka into thinking he was making stew + garnish but was actually making a completely different dish.

I mean, Souma didn't lie. He did make stew for the contest. But he didn't make stew only. He made several dishes and combined them into one. Mimasaka thought the extra parts were garnishes because he was so locked onto Souma's personality (straightforward) and the stew comment that he didn't realize the possibility of making a completely new fusion dish, which I think is what Souma actually made. God knows that isn't beef stew anymore, but it looked fucking awesome.

This is "unique" compared to all the other people Mimasaka defeated because it combines the 2 counters against him, hiding the dish AND improv. Not only that, it shows that people can adjust their personality for a win, breaking the profiling technique. Souma was never the type to trick people, but Mimasaka deserved to be trolled in order to understand how cheap his tactics are. That could replace the "I wanted you to see how cooking is so cool" bludgeoning that Souma did to reform this guy.

This scenario is definitely less shounen-like, but that's probably a good thing in the context of this show.

Isn't THIS exactly what I've been arguing that happened here?

Though to your first two sentences in your post, I think it hits the nail in the head more than anything... the explanation aspect wasn't done well, in part because of the BS'ing of why an improv wasn't really an improv. and such. But outside of that, it's quite apparent what did happen.

[shinta|hikari]

The bolded part didn't happen because Mimasaka supposedly predicted everything Souma did, from the oxtail, the extra meat, the improv, and the garnish. This means Souma's attempt at hiding anything failed.

My proposal would be that Mimasaka thought it was garnish, but was in fact a completely new dish, and Souma would explain it as such. Even if Souma's final dish is essentially the same, in this scenario, Mimasaka made a mistake. That italicized part is critical in convincing the audience of the win.

And take note, I made this proposal way before we even began arguing about nonsense.


It sounds more like a beef platter. Actually, it would've made more sense for Souma to win that way. Mimasaka thinks he's making stew. Then Souma makes a completely new dish that isn't stew, but is western, with stew being only one part of it, making Mimasaka's dish the incomplete one in comparison. That's a better reason for winning than "I used my whole protagonist's life to make this dish."

[Munsu]

The bolded part didn't happen because Mimasaka supposedly predicted everything Souma did, from the oxtail, the extra meat, the improv, and the garnish. This means Souma's attempt at hiding anything failed.

Other than, you know, he didn't predict EVERYTHING Souma did...

Funny tidbit though that Copy Man boasted about knowing the improv and the extra meat AFTER Souma brought all those elements into play (not that it matters for our discussion, but interesting nonetheless).

Not predicting the final dish is kinda a big deal too.

But as also depicted, what Souma did was also not a full on improv either, so that's another aspect Copy Man failed to predict.


My proposal would be that Mimasaka thought it was garnish, but was in fact a completely new dish, and Souma would explain it as such. Even if Souma's final dish is essentially the same, in this scenario, Mimasaka made a mistake. That italicized part is critical in convincing the audience of the win.

And take note, I made this proposal way before we even began arguing about nonsense.

You're making all such proposals and such, but in essence we're still right where we started, that you don't want to accept that something that you'd be fine with had it occurred, when it actually did occur (albeit a different way) but you don't want to acknowledge it.

[MFauli]

Man, this verbal bout keeps dragging worse than old DBZ!

[shinta|hikari]

You're making all such proposals and such, but in essence we're still right where we started, that you don't want to accept that something that you'd be fine with had it occurred, when it actually did occur (albeit a different way) but you don't want to acknowledge it.

Bolded to emphasize the difference. The means is very important. The explanation is also very important. The delivery is also important. All of that is different in my scenario.

At this point, it's like Munsu is just replying to me for the sake of it lol.

[Munsu]

Bolded to emphasize the difference. The means is very important. The explanation is also very important. The delivery is also important. All of that is different in my scenario.

At this point, it's like Munsu is just replying to me for the sake of it lol.

That's a different argument. As I said, I'm only interested in the facts. Then you say you accept them, then in the subsequent post you say you don't, as if they didn't occur...

In one post you actually admit that Souma did what I brought forward (merging of the two tactics against Copy Man). In another post, you act as if that didn't occur.

I call you on it.

So in the end, what it really is coming down to that you pretty much should acknowledge that it did occur. Just that it didn't go down as you would've have preferred, in a more satisfying manner.

And that's fine. My problem is that you're ambivalent about the former, sometimes you accept it, then you act as if that wasn't what occurred.

[shinta|hikari]

Wait, what?

Okay, I'll summarize my point because you seem to be misinterpreting me a lot. I never changed my stance. If it seemed like I did, it's because I didn't care to elaborate or argue with you about minor points.

Souma did nothing special to beat the trace skill. Everything you enumerated that he did, DID happen, and I naturally acknowledge that, but they aren't special. Special is subjective, and as such, you can't stop me from classifying them as such or not.

My scenario illustrates something that I do think is special, because 1) Souma acts out of character by actively tricking an opponent, and 2) He fakes out a stew and comes up with a completely different dish, not just the same stew Mimasaka could've easily predicted (taking advantage of the western theme vs stew limitation). Whether you like that or not is up to you. But it's factually not what happened in the story, so don't pretend it is.

That's all.

EDIT:

Why would you even devote this much time "calling me out?" I've been replying because I was defending my view of the episode, but you're practically saying that you've been arguing with me because you didn't like how I argued... which is like the least relevant thing in this thead.

[Munsu]

Wait, what?

Okay, I'll summarize my point because you seem to be misinterpreting me a lot. I never changed my stance. If it seemed like I did, it's because I didn't care to elaborate or argue with you about minor points.

Souma did nothing special to beat the trace skill. Everything you enumerated that he did, DID happen, and I naturally acknowledge that, but they aren't special. Special is subjective, and as such, you can't stop me from classifying them as such or not.

My scenario illustrates something that I do think is special, because 1) Souma acts out of character by actively tricking an opponent, and 2) He fakes out a stew and comes up with a completely different dish, not just the same stew Mimasaka could've easily predicted (taking advantage of the western theme vs stew limitation). Whether you like that or not is up to you. But it's factually not what happened in the story, so don't pretend it is.

That's all.

EDIT:

Why would you even devote this much time "calling me out?" I've been replying because I was defending my view of the episode, but you're practically saying that you've been arguing with me because you didn't like how I argued... which is like the least relevant thing in this thead.

Guess part of the problem is what you mean by "special", I don't care if you think they're special or not. My aim was going to show you that the steps taken did combat Copy Man. Whether you think they're special or not is not really my concern.

As for your edit, because I like discussions and can't help myself even when I don't care for this particular discussion. That said, when facts are concerned, it's usually one of my favorites things to argue about, so hard to step away.

I don't care about what occurred in the show, whether it was liked or not, and such. But I take a bit of issue when facts that are quite evident but kept being seemingly ignored.

[shinta|hikari]

So that's where the disconnect is. I never ignored the facts. I just didn't acknowledge the ones pertaining to Souma's preparation as special, and therefore relevant. The categorization of "special" is important in this case because what me, and I think Mfauli, were arguing about is the entertainment and satisfaction value of the episode, particularly the explanation for Souma's win. That's it.

[Munsu]

So that's where the disconnect is. I never ignored the facts. I just didn't acknowledge the ones pertaining to Souma's preparation as special, and therefore relevant. The categorization of "special" is important in this case because what me, and I think Mfauli, were arguing about is the entertainment and satisfaction value of the episode, particularly the explanation for Souma's win. That's it.

OK, now I think we're going somewhere at least.

Your arguments seemed like they did from my POV. But alright, hopefully this will be the last of this particular regard.

I do think part of the disconnect is that you're not buying that Souma hid that dish + did improv, when from my POV I think it's objectively factual that it actually occurred.

But maybe now you can see that at least he actually did as much, and then maybe you have a problem with how it actually came about?

That's cool. Maybe we'll keep disagreeing on other issues, but you'd say that's an accurate depiction?

[shinta|hikari]

Indeed. I don't disagree that Souma somehow hid his final dish from Mimasaka. That is indeed what happened. What I was complaining about is HOW it happened, and that from my perspective, he shouldn't have been able to hide it from Mimasaka with the things that he did. This is clearly a subjective judgment.

From what I gather, you don't really care about that part, so I think we've reached an understanding.

[Munsu]

Episode 10:

Finally this arc is over, I pretty much hated it. I liked how it ended though, but hopefully this upcoming arc is better and not tournament style battles, which was boring.

[MFauli]

Felt completely indifferent about the ending. The winner choice felt as arbitrary as most of the choices during this arc.

[Buffalobiian]

Akira winning via superior smell is convincing though. It makes more sense than the other two. Souma's signature is using cheap ingredients, which is inventive, but not exclusive or one-of-a-kind. Someone else can copy his recipe and make the same thing. Only Akira can judge spice requirements on a per-fish basis.

[MFauli]

Then Akira is the only one in the world with an exclusive dish, because what is anyone else doing when not using smell?

[Buffalobiian]

God Tongue is another who relies on sheer natural born talent.

The others would have had to perfect certain techniques or knowledge. I actually agree that only naturals have any real exclusive, signature dish. Relatively speaking, everyone else just has recurring themes in their cooking.

[neflight86]

It only came down to which was a signature dish because they judged the other elements of each dish roughly equal.

[shinta|hikari]

The signature dish concept used here is kinda bullshit. Souma's style is consistently present in his dishes, and only he, with his experience serving the masses despite having such a high level of culinary skill, can produce them in that school. His hoi polloi-oriented creativity is his signature.

A specialty is an arbitrary word used by chefs themselves to label a dish they feel particularly proud of. It's not some kind of judgment standard.

[KrayZ33]

Yet there is someone like Souma in the finals that's basically a 1:1 copy of him.
They explained why Spice-guy won the match, and considering that the quality of each dish was pretty much equal, I'd give him the win too.

[shinta|hikari]

Okay. I don't like the explanation then.

[MFauli]

One of the better episodes of this season. But dear god, would I punch Erina in the face, when she acts so smug and arroganz. Doesnt matter if you´re right, attitude counts, too. Same reason why so many people will never vote for Hillary, cause her supporters are absolutely obnoxious.

[Munsu]

One of the better episodes of this season. But dear god, would I punch Erina in the face, when she acts so smug and arroganz. Doesnt matter if you´re right, attitude counts, too. Same reason why so many people will never vote for Hillary, cause her supporters are absolutely obnoxious.

Episode 11...


I liked this latest episode as well, I prefer these plots to tournament style ones.

[shinta|hikari]

Holy shit! Excellence!

Now this is what I'm talking about. Putting aside the genius chefs aspect, this was an entirely believable AND uplifting episode! Not only that, it rounded itself out by making Souma realize something about his limitations too!

Why can't this show be always like this?

[Buffalobiian]

The only thing I didn't like is that Erina was able to completely manage a kitchen while her secretary Arato wasn't. There shouldn't have been such a large gap between the two in terms of management abilities.

This is still much better than a tournament style stuff we've been getting.

[shinta|hikari]

Why wouldn't there be? Erina is being trained from birth to be the next culinary messiah, which likely includes managing a kitchen. Arato is always following her around like a secretary. She's likely more used to following orders than giving them.

[Buffalobiian]

Giving or following orders isn't the point. Not knowing anything about real orders or restaurants was the point. She was all "I've taken team cooking classes" as if that was the highlight of her practical cooking career.

Where was Arato when Erina was learning about kitchen management? My impression was that the two stuck around a lot, especially as children. Arato was more of a personal maid back then.

[shinta|hikari]

Arato was probably busy taking secretarial classes. She's certainly a much better follower and subordinate than Erina will ever be.

And I'm pretty sure Erina doesn't have much practical cooking experience for customers either. That's her main difference with Souma, right? She's just a genius at what she does and can apply lessons better than Arato can.

[NeoCybercoin]

New ep is out!

We really need more episodes like this. Too bad next week is the last for this season.

[MFauli]

Agreed. Is Shokugeki no Soma the first ever anime, where a tournament is MORE BORING than the rest of the show? Typically, tournaments are some of the highlights in any anime, but here it fell flat due to the capriciousness.

[David75]

My only complaint is that I'm used to hear "Oui Chef !" after each order of the chef in high end brigades.
So it felt very unnatural/odd to have a single "Oui".

But it was a nice episode.

Regarding the "Quiche", by its very nature it's not very surprising to replace major ingredients like lardons (minced bacon) with chicken.
After all the tart form and the apparel can accomodate for many ingredients, a bit like pizza even if in that case it did really get lots of combinations thanks to its worldwide popularity.
Salmon/spinach quiche is a nice combination for example.
For burdock/chicken, since chicken does not have a very strong flavor, I'd fear it would only serve as filer.
Lastly, as good as quiche is, you need to rework its presentation for a high end restaurant.

[ForteCross]

am i the only person that actually liked the tournament? yes i know it was pretty boring and the rulings were arbitrary...

but the change they brought to the table were needed for the plot to continue... since the start of the anime, soma was at first the only underdog... then the anime started to bring more and more underdogs, and more and more geniuses without giving them any personal goal except for wanting "to be the very best that no one ever was"...

while we saw the graduated top 10's being all friends, all we had for this year was that they are all rivals... by the very end we had 3 underdogs competing with each other, atleast we now have the start of a friendship between the top trio and a new goal for the main character, he finally grown up a little when he talked to his father...

now this new arc is better than the last one because its about the real hardships about being a chef rather than who makes the better dish, my only problem would be that its short as fuck :\... the good thing is now i want to read the manga to keep up!

[shinta|hikari]

What makes the latest arc better than the tournament is because it's not repetitive. That's it.

@David - I think they went for a more delicate quiche here. The chicken is in fact mostly filler, since it tastes mild. The chef compensated for that with the texture. It's a very Japanese thing to do. Japanese cuisine has very mild flavors most of the time, and that dish was clearly intended to be a fusion dish.

I hope Souma wins this contest. He needs one after losing to reverse albino and gang member...

[neflight86]

I can't remember if this content was truncated from manga material or not, but it felt so short and rushed. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Highly dense material can either titillate for more exposition (good?) or feel inconsequential (bad?), and I'm not sure which this was more.

[NeoCybercoin]

No, this was straight from the manga alright.

[shinta|hikari]

I think the pace is just right. The tournament simply dragged on for too long, making this seem quick.

[Buffalobiian]

The reason it felt quick (if at all) would be because we don't understand everything Souma's just learned. It went over our heads, and is therefore relatively quick.

[David75]

It's true that when you know the terms, you link them better with the idea that he mostly learns cutting techniques and their names.
It was all around prep work if I did not forget anything.

[Buffalobiian]

It's also because we never saw the application of it.

He learned new cutting techniques, but it was never suggested that new cutting techniques were the reason he managed to quicken his pace and prepare food so far in advance.

The train of thought becomes "he learned new cutting skills.. he also got quicker... and he's closer to his signature?"

We got facts, but we didn't know what to do with them or why they mattered. In contrast, previous tournaments have always been "This taste is great! This is why, and this is why he won."

We can only hope that his contest dish will show everything he's learned thus far. That still only tells us that he learned new skills however, which suggest he only needed to get better in the kitchen by sticking around.

There's also a contrast between this and the tournaments where everyone was great at whatever they were filleting/cutting. We thought they had done well at prep school (as someone previously suggested) and were now only honing their ideas (going for their PhD, as that analogy went). Now they tell us their prep work actually doesn't cut it for the real world.

[shinta|hikari]

Not exactly the real world. Souma's internship is pretty special because he is working under a psycho boss.

[David75]

There's the boss and there's french cooking.
Compared to everyone else at Tootsuki, Souma is the only one (to my knowledge) who didn't have the basic training at Tootsuki.
So he does not have the culture and techniques from cooking styles other than the ones his father taught him.
He then had to catch up to all these french cutting techniques so that he gets useful in that kitchen. And I think almost every cutting techique was then displayed on screen in some form or another.
As for Souma's spécialité, working in a high end kitchen with one of the best chefs in the world and world class party certainly helps getting ideas. You get to see dishes you would never get to see at Yukihira. You get to know how to prepare them efficiently.
All the details he gets in that kitchen can play a role in creating his own cooking style. That's why he was in "sponge learning mode" doing all the tedious work in advance, reading books, asking questions and then improving and getting useful.

[Munsu]

Episode 13:

And so the second season ends. In a way, quite anti-climatic, quite rushed. Puts into question if we'll get more out of this series, I would've thought a second season would've been 24 episodes or so if they were planning for the long run. Who knows.

Second season was quite bad, the second half of the season though was quite good, but this last episode left a lot to be desired... just a by the numbers episode.

[neflight86]

I expect that most would feel that these last 2-3 episodes were more in line with the original spirit of Shokugeki no Soma than the somewhat flat autumn election arc, and will be glad it ended on this more positive note.

[MFauli]

Okay finale. But I don´t need a third season. Let´s move on. At least this anime gave us Erina for hentai doujin-purposes ;>

[shinta|hikari]

I'm cool with another season as long as there's no tournament. Shokugekis are ok.

[Munsu]

Third season incoming!
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-06-22/food-wars-shokugeki-no-soma-anime-gets-3rd-season-this-fall/.117823

This fall.

[KrayZ33]

It's comming guys, I'm already hyped.

I enjoyed this show more than I should....

I can't quite remember, does Erina know who Souma's father is already?

[NeoCybercoin]

No, that won't be revealed to her a bit later.

[Munsu]

Season 3 first episode is out...

I don't know, not feeling it.

[neflight86]

Bewilderingly, there is a bridging OVA here (https://nyaa.si/view/965629) that is both cannon and important for setting up this season, in my opinion. Why it was not the first episode is beyond puzzling! Please watch it before the first episode of season three for the context to make a bit more sense (the flashbacks are snippits from this OVA).

That said, at least its not a tournament...

[KrayZ33]

Wasn't the 2nd OVA just a swimsuit episode?

[neflight86]

There were 4 total (so far). The first three were fru-fru fan service episodes, yes, but the last one is an honest to goodness episode.

[KrayZ33]

Ohhhh, I'm sorry, I thought you linked OVA-2

[Buffalobiian]

S3 - Episode 03

------------------------------








Re: Yukihira's Mapo Tofu being deliberately mild

-This point was previously explored. Souma's dad made these dishes to be palatable to customers repeatedly, so that repeated mouthfuls taste great. I believe this was pointed out during the oxtail/beef stew battle.
- It's also been pointed out that this approach isn't going to win him points in a taste battle, or one where people are visiting an event yearly.
- I agree that the Yukihira's way of cooking isn't inferior necessarily, but it won't win you against an attention-grabber and those other impact dishes.



Other comments:
-I still get hungry watching this show, but the whole fight about umami again shows how boring this actually gets. That's what happens when your story is all about beating another person with your cooking. Isekai Shokudo S2 when? T_T

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 04

----------------








Hah, so much for finding Kuga's weakness. Souma might have lost due to long waiting times too had surprise help not turned up. Megumi's customer service was top notch, but in the end it was the donation of manpower that helped him out.

[ForteCross]

Episode 04

----------------








Hah, so much for finding Kuga's weakness. Souma might have lost due to long waiting times too had surprise help not turned up. Megumi's customer service was top notch, but in the end it was the donation of manpower that helped him out.

i wouldnt said that mimasaka was donating manpower, more like it was a deliberated move on souma's part.

the rest of the group? yes indeed it wasnt planned...

regardless this was a nice way to introduce mimasaka into the main cast

[shinta|hikari]

He probably would've lost without extra help, but this is Souma we are talking about. Despite being proud, he is a really great guy with tons of charisma. It was inevitable his friends will show up to help him, even if he doesn't think so himself. That's his edge over a little prick like Mapo-boy.

[Munsu]

Personally this was the first episode I've enjoyed in the series in quite some time.

[KrayZ33]

Ep5-6

------------------------------------------------------------


The reason why the directer has changed is absolute garbage, but at least things are somewhat interesting now.
I like the Souma - Erina action too.

[shinta|hikari]

While I agree with you about the director change, the whole premise of an elite 10 is garbage, so that's nothing new.

I like the "beating the stuck up bitch into submission" route. Now all that remains is Erina using her God's Tongue on Souma's meat.

[Buffalobiian]

I like the "beating the stuck up bitch into submission" route. Now all that remains is Erina using her God's Tongue on Souma's meat.

The "eat meat until she finds it delicious" route?

[shinta|hikari]

But she already thinks his meat is delicious. She just has to learn to admit that and enjoy the juice dribbling down her throat.

[KrayZ33]

While I agree with you about the director change, the whole premise of an elite 10 is garbage, so that's nothing new.

What about it in particular?

I think the elite 10 is fairly reasonable
The 10 best studens get special rights and privelege, I'm fine with that.

What's stupid about it is that they are basically on top of the chain when it comes to decisions that affect the whole school/university.
Since their position is never secure and can be challenged at any time, it's ridicilous to give them any right of co-determination or something like workers' participation....

"they want a new director" -> director changed -> 3 guys fall out of the top 10 and get replaced the next day "we want a different director" -> director will change again.

It's like letting Ronaldo/Messi decide who gets to train the team, but even worse.

[shinta|hikari]

What about it in particular?

What's stupid about it is that they are basically on top of the chain when it comes to decisions that affect the whole school/university.


This. It has always been like this. This is just the first time they exercised that power to such a degree.

You gotta remember these are teenagers. That makes no sense.

[KrayZ33]

I don't remember them saying anything like that in the past. (that they can change rules etc.)
All I can recall is that they get super special kitchen and training grounds and can basically order any ingredient they want and the school will buy it for them etc.

[shinta|hikari]

I don't remember them saying anything like that in the past. (that they can change rules etc.)
All I can recall is that they get super special kitchen and training grounds and can basically order any ingredient they want and the school will buy it for them etc.

This is from the wiki. Everything listed below supposedly happened before this director change thing.

The Elite Ten is an illustrious group of students in Tōtsuki comprised of the ten best students in the entire academy each year. This organization is responsible for handling the academy's internal evaluations, including judging the achievements based on the student presentations in the academy grounds as well as helping organize events including the Tōtsuki Autumn Election (http://shokugekinosoma.wikia.com/wiki/T%C5%8Dtsuki_Autumn_Election). Because of their status in the academy, they have certain freedoms when carrying out personal projects such as Erina Nakiri (http://shokugekinosoma.wikia.com/wiki/Erina_Nakiri)'s kitchen expansion project, which resulted in the demolition and disbanding of many Tōtsuki clubs with famed history. They are also given a large budget by Tōtsuki Culinary Academy (http://shokugekinosoma.wikia.com/wiki/T%C5%8Dtsuki_Culinary_Academy) for them to utilize in any conceivable reason as long as the purchases are related to cooking and food research. The extent is shown through Rindō Kobayashi (http://shokugekinosoma.wikia.com/wiki/Rind%C5%8D_Kobayashi), who has used the funds from her position to go on numerous global expeditions to some of the most remote locations around in her search for quality ingredients. Their authority in the academy is second only to the director, Senzaemon Nakiri (http://shokugekinosoma.wikia.com/wiki/Senzaemon_Nakiri). That being said, even the lecturers have less authority than they do and must obey anything they say.

All of that is pretty ridiculous for students to be able to do.

If you have more authority, knowledge, and skill than your teachers, why even attend school..?

[Buffalobiian]

So their authority is second only to the director, but they can replace the director? lol?

Also if I was in the Elite 10, I'd totally vote that I can delegate all of my shitty tasks to other people.

[shinta|hikari]

Only second to the director for each of them. A majority of them clearly surpasses even that.

I don't think they need a vote to delegate any task... Erina has buildings torn down and built for her...

[KrayZ33]

Only second to the director for each of them. A majority of them clearly surpasses even that.

I don't think they need a vote to delegate any task... Erina has buildings torn down and built for her...


That's not how it "normally" works though.

A boss with 10 people under him is still the boss.
A general is still a general etc.

Well, anyway the idea is stupid indeed, can't really say the idea of them having a say in anything related to school affairs was shown in the anime before the replacement.

I always thought they were the "elite", but not the boss.

[shinta|hikari]

The building tear down and construction is a good example. Do you know any high schools in any country that do that as part of the system?

[KrayZ33]

She won the places by defeating the owners.
After all, that's what Shokugekis are all about.


Do you know any high schools in any country that do that as part of the system?

Not sure how this is related.

I'm basically saying that they made up a new rule with that director replacement. And a very unbelievable one, not only by real worlds standards - which would be completely irrelevant, but also in the Food-wars universe itself.

The school decides on things, if students are unhappy, they can challenge it with a battle.
That's how it has been so far.

[shinta|hikari]

Oh I was comparing it to the real world from the start.

If you mean this director change is unbelievable in a world where people rip off their clothes in public while foodgasming, well, okay.

[shinta|hikari]

Episode 8.



Ownage.

I totally agree with this judgment. Sure, Hainanese Chicken Rice is great and all and preserves the chicken flavor or whatever. But it is fucking boring. And mostly tasteless without the sauces... Simple is best doesn't cut it in high level cooking. It's like this Eizan dude didn't watch the competition last season...

[Munsu]

Ketchup!!!

[NeoCybercoin]

Glorious, glorious Rindo-Senpai!

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 10

-------------------------------





That's an interesting concept re: unevenness. I didn't know that existed and always thought uniformity was inherently superior.

[shinta|hikari]

That's an interesting concept re: unevenness. I didn't know that existed and always thought uniformity was inherently superior.

It's actually a very common thing in cooking and eating. For example, I don't mix the condiments in my pho directly to the bowl. I add small bits to the soup spoon and savor a different set of flavors each time, combining different condiments in each spoonful of broth. I also eat congee in stages. First I eat it plain, then I mix in the raw egg and eat, then I add chili sauce and eat, then I add lime or other seasonings and eat, finishing with a completely different tasting dish from what I started with.

That's also why a lot of dishes incorporate pickles and whatnot as palate cleansers. Monotony (what you call uniformity) is a problem in cuisine. You want variety, not more of the same thing. Consistency is paramount only when it comes to two or more servings of the same dish, not the flavors of one dish.

[shinta|hikari]

Episode 11:





I lost all respect for this show when the grand villainous plot was revealed. Eradicating food for the masses..? Clearly the mangaka knows nothing about human society, much less the restaurant business. Has he even seen a McDonald's before..?

These "grand" developments are ridiculous. This show was far better then it tried to contain its ambitions with school-setting common sense...

[Munsu]

Episode 12:




And so ends this season. Overall I found it much better than the previous season, though early on I didn't think it would be so. Also glad the the secrets have finally been revealed.

I agree with your observations shinta, but with the context of what we learned in last episode, it's at least more palatable of an ambition... we'll have more to learn though.

[shinta|hikari]

WTF IT'S OVER???

I enjoyed this 10x more than the tournament stuff. Erina going dere is great, and I like Tsukasa's character. He's a pretty unique take for the final boss. Handsome, talented, yet cute and clumsy.

I really hope there is no redemption story for Erina's dad... I miss the days when villains were... well... villains.

[neflight86]

They split this with a cour off (Fate style). More episodes in April, I'm hearing.

[Munsu]

Season 3 just began. Overall a nice little episode to begin the season.

[neflight86]

In contrast to MhA, Shokugeki has no time or desire to recap what is going on in the story so far, and I would say it actually doesn't matter in this story; all of the elements of the conflict are properly re-iterated in this episode: "Central don't like us so we're gonna have a showdown". It really feels like it never ceased airing for 4 months; impressive.

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 14

------------------------------













Giving someone crap ingredients is a shit way to go about the exam. I thought they'd simply fail you if you didn't cook according to the recipe, but they're actually going out of their way to rig the exam.

At least we get Erina Sensei.

[Munsu]

Erina Sensei is hot.

[neflight86]

Its funny that, even though poor ingredients were rigged for the rebels, the lackey examiners still have enough pride in cooking (apparently) to pass the dishes on the merit of them still being 'very good'. It goes back to vesting in the idea of evil chefs. If simply expelling these students were the end goal (and it is), simply lying about the quality of the food would be the simplest method to do so, as there is no read remediation against a subjective judgment. Eizen had the right idea; he gave it up too soon after it failed once.

[Munsu]

Third episode was boring (glad it was rushed through). Next one looks a bit more entertaining.

[shinta|hikari]

Episode 17:



Finally, Souma beats that stuck up diva.

[Buffalobiian]

Meh, I try not to think too hard about this.

In the end you're tasting flavour, which was about equal. You can't actually tell how hard someone tried to come up with something, or how many times they failed before finding the right combination. Hayama did it within minutes while Souma took days, but without the story you can't "taste" it from the food. The only give-away would be the rarity or exoticness of the actual ingredient.

Interestingly some of the other crew "lost". Now Souma would have to do a Shokugeki of sorts to rescue them. Having the Alice and Slavic guy lose comes as a bit of a surprise. They must have been up against the Elite 10 as well. Having the Elites as a benchmark for an exam is ridiculous in its own right.

[shinta|hikari]

The only give-away would be the rarity or exoticness of the actual ingredient.

Isn't this exactly what gave it away and decided the victory? He chose a specific type of honey to match the bear meat, which indicates the amount of effort he made vs. just selecting any honey (or any thyme, or any juniper berry, in Hayama's case). Even if you have a good idea about matching ingredients, you still have to test them first.

[NeoCybercoin]

Well they didn't show our rebels with Rindou so I guess the next ep will be about them since those two weren't shown as losers.

[Buffalobiian]

Isn't this exactly what gave it away and decided the victory? He chose a specific type of honey to match the bear meat, which indicates the amount of effort he made vs. just selecting any honey (or any thyme, or any juniper berry, in Hayama's case). Even if you have a good idea about matching ingredients, you still have to test them first.

But how would you know that the special honey was something Souma specifically sought out, as opposed to having it lying around?
On the flip side, how did they know Hayama didn't actually think about all sorts of combinations before settling on "normal" spices being the most effective?

It relies on the story, rather than the taste. Also, a flaw here is that Hayama's dish could well have used special thyme etc - but no one else would know that because they don't have superhuman noses.

[shinta|hikari]

Because normal spices/ingredients are easily on hand. Special ingredients generally take more time to seek out and test, especially because the likelihood of you having used it before is small. There might be exceptions to this rule, but that's all it is, an exception.

Souma had very little ingredients on hand, and this is known to the judges. Stumbling onto a certain honey that matches the bear meat perfectly due to pure luck is possible but improbable. When you use something so specific and it works that well, it's most likely intentional. The judge merely judged that to be the case from what he knew of the situation.

Hayama could've used a special thyme (he didn't), but then the judge should be able to see through that. Nakiris are Nakiris for a reason. Hayama is still a level below the people judging them, since he is still a student.

Basically, it was clear from the resulting dish that Hayama didn't really put his best onto the plate. He could've done more, but he lacked the respect towards Souma and the desire to please loliprof to do so. That's why he lost. They tied in taste, but he disappointed the judges.

[neflight86]

I like how SnS never lost sight of the fact that cooking could/should be a fun and expressive endeavor. It may not be always viable pragmatically, but the audience gets more out of being inspired to want to make their own tasty food than by the "true gourmet" that central is proposing: pre-measured, rote recipes created by a committee who meet the director's standards. The most first world of distinctions, for sure, but it has remained a constant theme and I appreciate that.

This match seemed to boil down to "who wanted someone to enjoy their food more" manifesting as a superior eating experience. Souma didn't just source a honey that went with the meat, he said he was glad that the Nakiri noticed it, because it was intentional. It was a part of the craftsmanship of his dish, and he wanted that to play into their enjoyment of it. Hyama was satisfied making a dish with a complex spice/flavor only his sense of smell could create; it was about the self satisfaction of being the best at something in your own little world. And he was so good at it that he almost won with it, still.

[shinta|hikari]

I find it hilarious how Hayama lost to Souma despite the entire match being rigged towards his favor. How the mighty(?) have fallen.

[Buffalobiian]

I find it hilarious how Hayama lost to Souma despite the entire match being rigged towards his favor. How the mighty(?) have fallen.

I find it less hilarious and unfair in that he lost because "he didn't try hard enough" or use a special ingredient that the judges could comment on.

Also, Souma's idea of exploring the lifestyle of a bear didn't amount to much either.

[shinta|hikari]

The thing was, they tied. And that would've been an acceptable result, but there was an actual difference in their dishes, however minute. Souma spent more effort to find an ingredient to give him that edge. That's commendable.

It's as commendable as, for example, Hayama winning over two equally delicious dishes just because his dish is extremely his style. There is no real difference in flavor, but then things other than flavor come in to make you win.

It's not uncommon. Even Iron Chef has creativity as a judging criteria, and Chopped also often chooses the more creative dish if all other parts are equal. That has nothing to do with flavor but is used to determine winners.

[Buffalobiian]

Very well. Then it seems overall I'm quite against judging dishes based on external, not-previously-decided-upon factors, unless there is a clause that said "In the event that flavours are deemed equal, the dishes with then be judged on their uniqueness" or whatever.

If it's as common as you say, to the point where the general competitive cooking community deem it an unspoken rule, then consider myself uninformed.

edit: in this case it wasn't even creativity. It was "obsession" - and it was thrown in there just because the judge thought he should use it as the next criteria.

I'm of the opinion that high stakes competitions and exams should have clear, publicised performance criteria that examinees will know beforehand. It's otherwise prone to bias and unfairness. That's why I'm so pissed off when they pull this shit.

[neflight86]

Is it any more or less frustrating for you that the rebels were made to face off against the top students in the school or face expulsion? The rest of the student body didn't have that criteria. I don't mean to confuse the issue, but after that I'm more accepting of the development that suggested Souma is pushing his cooking more, so in an otherwise even match, he was given the victory.

[shinta|hikari]

@Buff - I find it strange that you are pissed off that Souma won by the tiniest margins because of some undisclosed criteria or judgement basis (that actually makes sense as an admirable quality for a chef), even though the entire battle was rigged for Souma to lose. The theme was about removing and/or enhancing gaminess for crying out loud. Fairness was thrown out the window from the very start. The three way match between Souma, Hayama, and bandanadood had a much fairer food item considering their specialties.

[David75]

There's no fairness in taste judging. So why not ?

[Buffalobiian]

Is it any more or less frustrating for you that the rebels were made to face off against the top students in the school or face expulsion? The rest of the student body didn't have that criteria. I don't mean to confuse the issue, but after that I'm more accepting of the development that suggested Souma is pushing his cooking more, so in an otherwise even match, he was given the victory.

Rebels vs Elite 10? That didn't annoy me nearly as much as rigging the exam with rubbish ingredients. The rubbish ingredient thing was about as annoying as Souma winning here with an impromptu criteria.

The key is mainly in the surprise factor: Elite 10 was open in telling you you're up against a boss. The other was "here's your exam. Oh, btw..."

@Shinta:

Why I'm pissed off about an undisclosed criteria is because a candidate can not prepare for it. Hayama got penalised here because he didn't prepare a dish by putting his all into it. I would argue that he didn't need to, since it tied Souma anyway.

Imagine sitting a test and scoring the same mark as the guy next to you, but he won because of 'neater handwriting', or 'because he studied for longer' or some other shit like that. Yeah, it probably makes him a better student, but you're tested on your performance (taste). If that's a tie, do further not testing. Don't pull some other unknown criteria out. For all we know, the winning criteria could well have been 'colour' or 'presentation'.

This exam was 'rigged' in that it played to Hayama's forte, but Souma still had plenty of time to prepare. Souma also knew head on about what he's up against prior to starting. Having him face off against Hayama to get a 'pass' is still unfair - but we know that.

What pisses me off is how Souma winning here seems 'fair' when the judge decides to choose an undisclosed criteria as the winning criteria that happened to be in Souma's favour.

This is also more or less the same reason I was pissed about Hayama winning their Autumn battle.

[shinta|hikari]

Just so you know, presentation is actually a big factor in judging dishes in cooking shows. I think you are getting too hung up on flavor, when clearly they never said that is the only criteria they are judging in a shokugeki. They are judging which dish is "better" and that is subjective as it can get. They can deem a dish better because of style, hard work, or whatever.

It isn't a surprise criteria when you were supposed to be aware that such subjective calls could be made beforehand. Hayama won once because of that. He has no right to call foul when the tables are turned.

[Buffalobiian]

Just so you know, presentation is actually a big factor in judging dishes in cooking shows.

Yes. I brought it up because despite being a common judging criteria, it's almost never brought up in SnS.

If they couldn't decided on a winner, presentation would actually be a fairly logical step as a criteria. Maybe creativity could have been the next criteria from that. But they chose obsession.

I reckon that if someone had to come up with a marking sheet for Totsuki Exams, Umami would be the critical criteria, unless you were testing sweats.

[shinta|hikari]

Which is funny because a lot of foods are delicious but have no or little umami, like a lot of sushi dishes, for example. Salads also come to mind.

[David75]

Remember the guy randomly expelled because he had a citric fragance/perfume ? Was that camp from hell or even before ?
SnS is all about random criteria and subjectivity.

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 22

------------------------










Holy shit, take me now Isshiki-senpai!

[Buffalobiian]

Episode 23

-----------------









Too bad, this episode felt a bit weak because:

1) no one cares about the Italian guy

2) It's hard to see how Isshiki's skill was fully translated into his dish. He managed to match the ingredients well, but the technical aspect which was suggested last episode didn't seem relevant in this risotto. It just proved that he's good.

(Nevermind. I forgot that grilling eel was supposed to take a lifetime's work to perfect. Guess it's just #1)

Can't wait for the next episode where Souma will shit all over Nene. What is lacking in finer details in these episodes is made up for in energy and intermittent coolness. The soundtrack has a lot to do with it.

[ForteCross]

episode 24
----------------------------










welp, did the season ended without properly finishing the exams?

[shinta|hikari]

What exams?

[Buffalobiian]

episode 24
----------------------------










welp, did the season ended without properly finishing the exams?

Their exam is now the Team Shokugeki, and it remains incomplete.

This latest run of SnS has been quite entertaining. A large part of that has to do with fleshing out Joichiro's backstory, which also tends to ship Souma x Erina hard.

And Rindou Senpai. God bless Rindou Senpai.

[NeoCybercoin]

Now we just have to wait for the final season. There's enough material for it since the arc ended recently in the manga.

[Buffalobiian]

S4 E7

----------------------------------



















Hahaha wtf. "Oh, those independant judges that we invited? Forget them. Here's your new judge whose conflict of interest reaches 100%.

[Buffalobiian]

E08

--------------------






Ohooooo, so we needed more sexy judges. That's alright then. Carry on. (sips tea)

[Buffalobiian]

Ep 10.


---------------------------------












So Azami's Gift goes something like this:

"If you feed me something good tonight, you'll be getting some D."

[Buffalobiian]

S4E10

-------------------------------









Megumi's haircut was the only one that looked markedly better than her original. Souma's was a small improvement and I'm ambivalent about Hisako's. Everyone else's was a step backwards. Fat Aldini doesn't count because he looks hot when thin anyway.

[ForteCross]

S4E10

-------------------------------









Megumi's haircut was the only one that looked markedly better than her original. Souma's was a small improvement and I'm ambivalent about Hisako's. Everyone else's was a step backwards. Fat Aldini doesn't count because he looks hot when thin anyway.

you meant the ending episode?

anyway this was by far the best arc of the whole series (manga wise....) they even skipped a whole 10 chapters or more? from the next manga arc.....

going by the ending will they go for a 5th season?

[NeoCybercoin]

5th season will be worst one. I mean in the manga a lot of people seem to dislike it. Even I thought it was a bit stupid with some concepts then again we already have the Nakiri's abilities to "Undress"