Death Parade

[Ryllharu]

Death Parade

http://i.imgur.com/tu06F1d.jpg


Description: A bar that serves you one chance to win. You cannot leave until the game is over, and when it is, your life may be too.

This is a continuation/expansion or full series adaptation of the Anime Mirai OVA Death Billiards (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=9253).

AniDB (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=10905)| ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=16375)

Death Billiards OVA (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=420569)
Death Parade - 01 (http://nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=643591)



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The premise is fairly simple. Two people die at the same time, and the pair fight over who gets to be reincarnated and who is sent to hell or banished to the void....by playing pub games. They have amnesia of their final moments, and over the course of the game, remember what led them to the bar, often in some manner of intense conflict. The solemn bartender just watches over them and makes sure that they both play, and follow the sparse rules.

Since most the characters are guests, the mystery and meat of the series surround the staff of the bar / residents of the underworld.

I expect a lot of prominent guest VAs over the course of the series. The first episode of the series featured Kawasumi Ayako (Saber) and Nakai Kazuya (Zoro from One Piece).

But the focus of the series will clearly be the development of Kurokami no Onna (Black Hair Woman). She's different from the staff of the bar, and expresses some concern about the events that are clearly ordinary to the bartender and hostess.

Animation is excellent, because Madhouse.

[David75]

But it felt extremely generic and above all was utterly boring for a first episode. At least that's what I felt.

If they have better scenari, they should have picked one for the first ep, because the scenario for the first ep trully was awful for my tastes.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 02 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=646036)

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Decim lost some major points this episode. I severely overestimated his abilities as an arbiter. For a judge of human character, he fails hard at understanding human expressions. That assistant of his is sorely needed.

[David75]

So we had to have a debrif ep, really?

Even the assistant fails in really understanding feelings and motivations.

Even the idea that fears is enough to reveal anything is a fault in itself.

Heck, even deciding to void one of the two is moronic. They killed no one, they were only cheating/lying. The morale of bearing the child of another when you're married (which isn't even the case here), is only something society build for itself. It's not a bad thing per se and shouldn't be used in the context we have here.

It feels like bad justice, with all of the faults and mistakes your everyday Joe is suceptible to, and in fact you do not even have proper judgment.

[Buffalobiian]

Well for me the main flaw is with the idea that when two people die at the same time, one of them must be reincarnated while the other must be voided. It doesn't make any sense when you think about it, since they'd be judged on their own merits had they died separately.

Still, the idea of using a game to pick the better person does interest me so I'll still be watching.

It's also weird that nowhere in this show do even the Arbiters consider the Void to be a good place to go considering the parallels this has to the Buddhist view of reincarnation. I thought Decim made the right decision last episode by sending Machiko to the desirable void and gave him points for being insightful. Oh how that disappointment hit.

[Ryllharu]

Death Parade - 03 [HorribleSubs] (http://nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=648198)


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This episode got me all full of feels.

Also, Death Parade has the best OP of all shows airing this season. Undisputable.

Kurokami no Onna was really cute this episode too. Even with the amount of time that has passed since the manager put them together, Kurokami has managed to humanize Decim quite a bit. The shot were she brushes aside her hair to hear him whisper the secret to her...hrrrng.

[shinta|hikari]

Decim lost some major points this episode. I severely overestimated his abilities as an arbiter. For a judge of human character, he fails hard at understanding human expressions. That assistant of his is sorely needed.

Decim didn't see the woman's expression when she started lying at the end. All he saw was her insane behavior. The assistant had a critical edge.

Even then, Nona clearly said that Decim was not wrong. He should not be swayed by momentary emotions. The woman may have wanted to save her husband at the end, but that does not erase the fact that she had an affair, an act that would destroy her distrustful husband (which actually happened, only she got taken along with it).

I, for one, like the fallibility the arbiters have. It makes the show interesting. I was actually hoping at the end of episode 2 that it isn't going to be "It's all according to plan." - Decim, and it was not. Decim is actually a character that can and will grow.

@David - Right and wrong is a purely human construct. That does not make it invalid in this case. Judgment, by its very definition, requires a standard or basis. It just so happens that these arbiters use something similar to what is socially accepted for modern society.

The latest episode showed that two people can get reincarnated. The entire game is just a show to bring out the true colors of the deceased, nothing else.

[Buffalobiian]

Even then, Nona clearly said that Decim was not wrong. He should not be swayed by momentary emotions. The woman may have wanted to save her husband at the end, but that does not erase the fact that she had an affair, an act that would destroy her distrustful husband (which actually happened, only she got taken along with it).

The latest episode showed that two people can get reincarnated. The entire game is just a show to bring out the true colors of the deceased, nothing else.

So what I'm getting is that the memories are not enough to know the truth about someone, hence the point of needing this afterlife game. But then we're not supposed to base our decision on "momentary emotions" that happen during the game? Decim was wowwed by the woman's reveal, and that's in a bad way. He sent her to the void based largely on that. This is evident by the fact that he wondered whether he was wrong - whether his interpretation of the woman's outburst was wrong.

Regarding the bold part, Nona actually said "Everybody makes mistakes". That's clearly saying Decim made a mistake.

How things should have happened was to have Nona, Decim and nameless girl (from now on known as Kuro) all be arbiters, since Decim alone can't see everything as you said.

I'm getting tired of the pre-game explanations. Watching the OVA, ep1 and ep2 essentially feels like watching the same episode three times.

[shinta|hikari]

You should not base your judgment on momentary emotions. You are supposed to base them off a combination of everything, including the memories. Decim made that call also because he knew the woman cheated. He even said so himself, when he was surprised when the assistant claimed that the child was genuinely the dude's. Even the woman probably did not know whose it was, but in the end regretted her affair. You are trying to limit Decim's decision to one reason when we, the audience, really have no way to tell if that is the case. The parts where he reacted not only to the outburst but also to all the actions AND the memories of the couple beforehand strongly suggest he considered far more than just the woman's act.

EDITED OUT: Rewatched it and realized I misheard it the first time.

I am personally with Decim on this one. The girl had an affair, and that ruined their lives. Just because the woman wanted to save her husband from the suffering of killing his own child by accident (after knowing they are already dead - this is important because she has nothing to lose, the assistant even commented that it was a final act to preserve their memories) does not erase her sin. However, I would probably have sent both of them to the void because the dude was an ass during the game, even before he remembered his wife's cheating.

[Buffalobiian]

"Everyone makes mistakes. But then, people's feelings often get expressed in random ways. You're an arbiter; don't just brush them off."

That's what Nona said. To me, that means "It's okay to make mistakes. However, human emotions are more complex than what they superficially appear. You're an arbiter, don't just ignore them."

She scolded Decim for his lack of depth in analysis.

I agree that Decim takes many things into account. What I can't agree with was that the final act was trivial in nature and that it didn't have significant sway. This is evident in how Decim thought he might have been wrong based on that one interpretation difference.

Had it been otherwise, he'd have acted more like you and said something like "I'd have sent her to the void anyway".

It's pretty evident that the final act sold Decim on the idea that the girl was a complete bitch and the guy deserved a second chance.

[shinta|hikari]

I edited my first comment after rewatching it. The translation made it a bit vague, but the Japanese was very clear and made me revamp my understanding of the line.

I now agree with you that Decim was indeed fooled by the act. However, that was the only thing he was scolded for. The decision itself was not wrong.

I have no idea what made you think that the guy deserved a second chance after trying to murder someone in front of Decim. The final act did nothing to save the dude. What it did was doom the woman. To some, she might have deserved a second chance if her final act was taken in consideration.

I don't believe in second chances, though. I don't think a selfless act after finding out you are dead should hold any sway at all. It has no consequence in her mind, after all, especially because she won the game.

[Ryllharu]

There are really only two options:

1) You win the game, and get reincarnated, playing with the idea that you can play a game against Death, and if you win, you live. No matter what a bastard/bitch you were, making the rules of the game literal. You want it more, you get to live.

2) With the true nature of the players revealed, winning/losing doesn't matter.

Option 1 is certainly boring unless there is a fist-fight every episode, so Death Parade is wisely going with Option 2. Death Billiards did as well, but in the end there it was completely ambiguous and the masks don't represent anything as they clearly do now. With Episode 3 not showing a demon mask for either elevator, they ruin the mystery by adding certainty. I think that the OVA approach was a little better than the one they're using here.

The old man goes into the demon elevator, but right as the doors shut, he smiles viciously. My interpretation was that he realized he had won.

What I didn't like about the first episode's decision was that she was obliterated and he was reincarnated, despite her winning the game and then opting to sacrifice herself. That kind of spits in the face of the message they're trying to project. Which I suppose was actually the point of Nona's remark.

This is why Decim made the mistake in the first episode. He failed to recognize that Machiko was still doing it out of love. Even though she cheated on him and felt guilty about it, even though she said all those things to hurt him, even if she clearly stopped loving him partway through the game. She realized he wasn't the man she fell in love with and was no longer the man she betrayed once he had become paranoid. Her guilt was gone, she was free to do what she wanted, he had proved himself to be an ass...and she let him be saved anyway.

[Buffalobiian]

I have no idea what made you think that the guy deserved a second chance after trying to murder someone in front of Decim. The final act did nothing to save the dude. What it did was doom the woman. To some, she might have deserved a second chance if her final act was taken in consideration.

I don't think the guy deserves a second chance. I said Decim thought he did, based on Machiko making it seem like he was a victim.


I now agree with you that Decim was indeed fooled by the act. However, that was the only thing he was scolded for. The decision itself was not wrong.

Why do you say that? Decim wondered whether or not he made a wrong decision, to which Nona says "Everyone makes mistakes". The only reason you say that is if someone makes a mistake and you're telling them not to be bogged down by it.

As for the subs, I found it ambiguous as to what themrefers to in
But then, people's feelings often get expressed in random ways. You're an arbiter; don't just brush them off.

1) You're an Arbiter; don't just brush those feelings off. (aka read more deeply)
2) You're an Arbiter; don't just brush those mistakes off. (don't get bogged down by your mistakes, but don't ignore them either. Learn from them)

Either one could work, really.

I really do wonder what the Arbiters think of reincarnation/void. It's obviously different from the Buddhist interpretation despite the imagery.

[shinta|hikari]

I don't think the guy deserves a second chance. I said Decim thought he did, based on Machiko making it seem like he was a victim.

Decim already knew that the dude was a victim. He knew that the girl cheated. That meant everything she was saying about not cheating were lies. Don't forget that the arbiters do not know what the players remember as they play the game - the girl might already know she had an affair even when she claimed she did not.

Seeing him act like a nut isn't a good reason to give him a second chance. However, it did serve to doom the wife after she acted too well and even fooled the arbiter. But she didn't know that. She did all that without consideration of the consequences because she had no idea what would trigger what conclusion.



Why do you say that? Decim wondered whether or not he made a wrong decision, to which Nona says "Everyone makes mistakes". The only reason you say that is if someone makes a mistake and you're telling them not to be bogged down by it.


Decim wondered whether or not he made a wrong decision because he mistakenly interpreted the outburst. Nona scolded him for mistaking how human's express their emotions. That was what she meant by "mistake."

Even at the end of the episode, Nona lowered her rating of the black haired girl because her view was too naive. If Decim had been completely off base, I would think Nona would scold him a bit more.

[Ryllharu]

I think, much like Nona, you're underestimating Kurokami.

She's very perceptive. We don't know her background (nor does she), but she's definitely human (either than or an amnesiac deity). Decim and Nona aren't. She's instantly able to see things that the others overlook. She doesn't have the foreknowledge they do by absorbing the participant's memories, but she catches on quickly. She has the sympathy and empathy that they lack.

She knows how to ease their fears and get them going with the flow of the bar.

- Decim is all about the task at hand, though he's begun to learn about joking.
- Nona has some high-minded master bullshit scheme going on, but she lacks humanity all the same.
- Kurokami can relate. She's moved by the player's words, she sympathizes with their confusion, she admires their courage.

That ability to connect with the participants is why she is valued. She can relate to them and they can relate to her. The arbiters are inhuman and the players can tell, even when Decim doesn't have to threaten them.

[shinta|hikari]

No, I didn't mean to underestimate her at all. Like you, I evaluate her very highly.

What Nona was saying was that being human can also be a weakness in their line of work. Kurokami believed that the couple would have been happy if they didn't die, but that was a very optimistic outlook and may not hold true in every case. In this specific case, it would have been unlikely. The dude distrusted his wife based off some gossip in the restroom. It was just a coincidence that the wife DID indeed commit adultery. You can say Nona is too much of a pessimist, but we can never confirm who was correct because the couple died. I'll side with Nona just because she is a pro at this, and Kurokami is a newbie, albeit very talented.

Decim and Kurokami complement each other very well, which was why Nona put them together.

And no, I am not siding with Nona because she is smaller and flatter... I think.

[Buffalobiian]

Decim already knew that the dude was a victim. He knew that the girl cheated.

That's not what I mean. Decim can only view memories as a movie. He does not know what the person is thinking during those memories unless they said it out loud, hence the need for this game. He knows the girl cheated. He does not know whether she married her husband because she loved him or because she was in it for the money.

That's where he got tricked and thought the man flipped rightly because his wife never loved him in the first place. On the other hand, the truth is that the wife cheated on him for an unknown reason (was she drunk and ended up in a one-night-stand?), but truly loved him. In the first case, he was clearly a victim.


Seeing him act like a nut isn't a good reason to give him a second chance. However, it did serve to doom the wife after she acted too well and even fooled the arbiter. But she didn't know that. She did all that without consideration of the consequences because she had no idea what would trigger what conclusion.

Why did Decim send the man back for reincarnation again then? My interpretation was that Decim thought the man deserved a second life because he his cheating, unloving wife raised his suspicions and ultimately caused his motor vehicle collision and death. The truth is, she cheated on him but still loves him and there really was a person named Matchy. The husband happened to be correct about the cheating, but his outbursts and accusations were not based on accurate observations. The cheating, and his suspicions (leading to death) were coincidental, not causative.

As we have seen this episode, the arbiters are perfectly capable of sending both persons to reincarnation (and presumably the void). Decim chose not to, despite the man's under-performance. I can only think of the above reason to explain why he got his second life.


Decim wondered whether or not he made a wrong decision because he mistakenly interpreted the outburst. Nona scolded him for mistaking how human's express their emotions. That was what she meant by "mistake."Even at the end of the episode, Nona lowered her rating of the black haired girl because her view was too naive. If Decim had been completely off base, I would think Nona would scold him a bit more.

Actually, could you quote what Nona actually said in Japanese, and your interpretation afterwards? Specifically the line after she said "Saiteisha no kuseni,-" (You're an Arbiter; E02 18:31)

It doesn't make sense that Decim could have wrongly interpreted the outburst yet made the correct decision. Decim would only be upset if wrongly interpreting the outburst changed the outcome. Nona actually scolded him pretty sternly for that.

The elevator boy said it's rare for Nona not to put someone down, but that's not necessarily to their face. In fact, she smiled most of the time in an impressed why while listening to Kuro's interpretation (right up until she said they'd be happy had the guy not misunderstood the Matchy gossip). Kuro's was much more insightful than Decim's (who couldn't even comprehend the idea of someone lying in this scenario since they're dead). It's just a habit of hers to not say anything bad about someone. It wasn't until after the event that Nona rationalised why "Happy End" didn't actually sit well with her - and she had the benefit of memory-vision.

We never heard to answer "How'd Decim go" after all. At the very least, she sees that Decim needs extra help.

[shinta|hikari]

No need to quote anything. You got the line right. We are just interpreting the nuance a little differently.

You can make a mistake in the process but still arrive at the correct conclusion, is what I'm saying. You should also take note that Decim asked Nona if he was mistaken. He didn't say that he was. He just started to doubt his decision because he failed to see through the act, which means he made a judgment with incomplete information.

If he would have surely decided that the girl deserved a second chance with that info, he would have said something along the lines of "I made a mistake," instead of "Did I make a mistake?"

You seem to be making the "unloving" part a big deal, and that is where we differ. I think the affair, by itself, is already grounds for her to be sent to the void. Decim may or may not believe that his decision is correct in the end. What I am saying is that I believe that his decision was correct, and at the very least, Nona did not think it was worth scolding him more than 5 seconds for. If sending someone to the void by mistake only warrants 5 seconds of scolding (and no intervention whatsoever), I don't think these arbiters would bother going through all the trouble of setting up a game in the first place.

EDIT: About the reason why Decim gave the man a second chance, I think it's simply because of what Decim saw in the flashback. The dude thought his wife was having an affair (even if the source was wrong), and she was. To Decim, who only saw memories and not intentions or feelings, that meant the dude was a victim already and deserved a second chance. What the woman's act did affect was her own fate. It just so happens we disagree on what fate she actually deserves.

Just to be clear, I only agree with Decim's decision (result, not the process) on the woman's fate. I already said in an earlier post that I think he screwed up not shoving the dude into the void too.

[Lucifus]

So what's the verdict at this point, this anime worth picking up?

[shinta|hikari]

Short answer: Very.

[David75]

I find the show quite bland and boring at this point.
Might change in the future. I've watched quite worse, till the end... so I'm waiting to be surprised here.

[Ryllharu]

I'm the opposite, I find it quite interesting and want to know more about the recurring characters. They've hinted at some pretty neat stuff with Decim, Kurokami, and Nona.

I fear that it will get bland and boring if they run out of ideas for the "filler," which is the pub games competition between random people who are either neutral and rotten people (OVA), liars (episode 1), or simply not honest with themselves until it is too late (episode 3).

[shinta|hikari]

There should be lots of possible stories to tell. This reminds me of Kino or Mushishi.

[neflight86]

After seeing it for the third time, this show has my favorite opening of any this season.

And, there's something to be said for ponderous anime that tries to be more than moe/shounen/light novel. I like the variety.

[Lucifus]

Both favorite opening of the season and favorite series of the season for me. Hell yea, thanks for the recommendation Shinta. I don't find it bland or boring in the least. Great animation as well.

2nd the Mushishi vibe, and of course Hellgirl.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 04 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=650613)

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Thank you for not running through the rules and skipping the intro. I don't know if I could have sat another one of those in a row like that. The idea behind this episode was good: Do you judge someone by comparing their worst moment against someone else's, or do you judge them as a whole?

It's true that your worst comes out when you feel threatened. For example, someone might act in a non-racist nor xenophobic way until their employment is threatened by an international workforce. You really do need to test someone's values, so Decim's not wrong here.

That said, popping the top off your control stick is hardly a big issue. I'm sure you can play just fine without it for two rounds.

I'm not sure about him consolidating someone even though he's ruled them to go to the void however. It seems like this type of human compassion is at odds with his role as an Arbiter. He needs to understand human emotions, but not be swept by them.

[Ryllharu]

If the masks are still indicating which way they go, and the demon mask is hell, Decim fucked up royally again.

Misaki, despite all her bitchiness, despite how much her older children had grown to hate her, and despite the horrible things she did to other people, had learned her lesson before she was murdered by her manager. She slapped her because her assistant had scheduled work for her when Misaki had intended to spend some time with her family. A rare event because she works her ass off to support her children by herself. All the time she was struggling to make it, sure, she was ignoring her kids, but her intentions were the best she could make of them given the life she had. She had been manipulated, she had been abused, she had been toyed with...and since she viewed that as how "successful" people act, she did so as well.

She flipped out in Quindecim because she was desperate. She had gone through all that to make a life for her five kids, was finally getting to the point where she could redeem herself in their eyes, and when she snapped for the last time, she caused someone else to lose their shit and got murdered.

Compare her to Yousuke. His parents got divorced, and the only goal his stepmom had was to get him to treat her like a mother. Because his biological mother sure as fuck didn't act like one. Yousuke never learned his lesson while he was alive. He only realized how awful he was after her was dead. Committing suicide because he felt guilty about how he treated his stepmom doesn't fix it, it probably only hurt her further. He threw it all in her face the whole time.

Misaki wanted to be a happier person. While the beginning of the episode made it seem like the promo image of her and her family was just PR, by the end of the episode, the audience understood that it was genuine, even if the smiles on her kids were forced, hers had not been. She was ready to redeem herself. Yousuke didn't try to fix the problems he had created, he ran away. He always ran away.

Kurokami should have flipped out at Decim for basing his judgment only on what happens in the bar. He has their past, he knows everything we get to see in the flashbacks. But he only tries to force a conflict to make his decision. It works to show who the rotten bastards are sure, but this case wasn't anything like that. Here, he chooses the one who didn't have the drive for a second chance. In these situations, he picks the cowards, by thinking their inaction, indifference, or apathy means they are a better person. It's far more nuanced than that, and he's clearly been picking the wrong ones in these kind of matchups.


@Buff:
Regarding the joystick handles, the Japanese grip them in a very specific way, which is why they are ball-shaped. Underhand or Overhand, fingers and palm curled around the ball. Westerners will often get a bat-shaped stick, because they grab the joystick by wrapping their hands around the metal rod with their thumb oriented skyward. Playing a game with that kind of grip works easily with the rod alone, while the Japanese grip would be very difficult or even impossible.

[shinta|hikari]

The suicide dude regretted his suicide and wanted another chance.

The actress almost killed the dude based on an assumption. No one ever told her about the consequences. She has the propensity for violence, understandable considering her life history, but not forgivable. She also wanted to return to her old life (because it was finally looking up), not get a new one.

The nice guy decision would be to send them both to reincarnation, but I personally would not want a woman who beats her assistant (likely regularly, it didn't look like an isolated case, especially if the assistant snapped) for setting her an appointment, or who smashes someone's face into a monitor based on speculation, in this world.

[David75]

flushing the guy might not be based on deciding who's right or wrong... but maybe on who's got the will to live in the end.
It felt like his soul was tired of living. Sure he got a bad start in that life, but then got a very loving and easy going foster familly and didn't take that as a chance and only lived in the agony of that bad start. He then terminated his life when he could have been happy should he try to accept the love he was offered.
For such a tired of living sould, going to the void might be a good solution, there's no point to reincarnate it and have another life of depression and suicide.

As for the woman, she had a shitty life from begining to end, always fought hard, did major mistakes too and probably victimized some people the way she was. But in the end she always had a strong will to live, have children and raise them, regardless of difficulties. She was reincarnated for that reason maybe. And maybe because in a less shitty setting, she would not victimize anyone and get killed for that.

Regarding the show's pitch... well it remains as bad as it was from ep 1. There's even a rule that was loose here: the die at the same time one.
It feels like both of them didn't even die at the same place at all. So now the rule feels a bit useless.

[Buffalobiian]

They didn't need to die in the same place, just at the same time.

Also David, you've got it the other way around. This show considers the white mask (reincarnation) as Heaven, and the dark demon mask (void) as Hell, contrary to Buddhist interpretation.

[David75]

You're right, for some reason I switched them both. I was so willing to see the guy right and the woman left that I remembered it that way.
Strange how our will/reason and brain work at times.

[Ryllharu]

Bottom line was this:

Misaki had a horrible life, but made the best of it and acted badly, but to ultimately support the ones she truly cared about. Was she the perfect mother? No, but she was trying to get there. Her last act was apologizing to her children for breaking a promise, one that she didn't even ruin.

Yousuke had a generally great life, and squandered it. He had something good, and hurt those who deserved it the least. His last act is declaring his life sucks, killing himself, ultimately hurting those who cared for him even more.

The person who deserved the second chance is one who appreciated life the most and fought tooth and nail to make the best of the shitty life she was given, not the one who spat in the face of those kind to him on a routine basis and ended it all because he was, unsurprisingly, miserable.

[shinta|hikari]

The person who deserved a second chance is the one who was not criminally violent.

[Ryllharu]

That's far too simplistic for a reason to choose which one goes where, and part of the reason Kurokami was pissed at Decim.

He forced that out of Misaki.

I will grant that the arcade cabinets was by far the worst of any of the games we've seen so far. There was no bodily connection to the participants at all this time. The supers had an emotional connection, but not one that made any sense. Yousuke's stepmom loved him, however it should have been displayed with her appearing on-screen to defend him, but then his character pushes her off screen so that it didn't do anything. Misaki was given similar treatment, where her older children only half-assed it because they resent her.

The two didn't match the respective sins of their backstories. Misaki's game character got the short end of the stick, while Yousuke's got a clearly unfair advantage.

[shinta|hikari]

Actually, the actress was criminally violent in her real life, even after getting what she wanted (acting career, fame, money, happy kids). Hitting her assistant (presumably many times in the past as implied by the scene. She looked pretty damn used to it.) got her killed.

[lelouch]

The bottom line is this:

Decim is an asshole.

[Buffalobiian]

He's not an asshole, he's just interested in judging people by their worst aspect, while some may argue you should judge someone as a whole. He's also not exactly perceptive either.

[Xelbair]

Honestly speaking? no one deserved to be reincarnated this episode. no one.
Misaki chose to be a star in tv - she could spend more time with her family, but she (unknowingly) decided not to. She could talk to the her manager, spend less time chasing her career.
she also hand tendency towards violence, and judging by some flashback-scenes - she neglected her kids just to have sex with yet another random boyfriend. She always chose pleasures over responsibilities, never thinking ahead(just like our NEET)

On the other hand we have typical NEET, who took his life just because he was fucking bored. seriously? bored? He wanted to end his miserable life(which was miserable due to same reasons as Misaki - his own decisions + pressure of society) - it would be a fitting end for him to go to Void.

Decim was obviously shaken - look at his clutched hand later on. This is a job for him - not a comfortable one - but the one he has to do.

[neflight86]

Ep 5

Well that's one way to revisit the overarching storyline. Interesting situation we have here now that nameless girl's been filled out a bit. The action, while nice, seemed pointless this ep; the intrigue was enough to keep my attention.

[lelouch]

Ep 6
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Genti is a pretty shitty arbiter

[Buffalobiian]

Ep 6
--------

Genti is a pretty shitty arbiter

Really? I think it all comes down to how he actually judges them, because aside from that he shouldn't be that different from Decim. Sure he's rude and brash, but all they end up doing is getting the players to shit themselves in a death game and think about cheating. How they interpret what they see and make a sound ruling is what separates a good arbiter from a shitty one. As far as I've seen, Decim's lack of insight makes him pretty unimpressive. He takes too much at face value.

This episode was after all a comedy one though. To make a point about how unimportant the ruling is, the producers didn't even show the final ruling. Without that, I'll withhold judgement about Ginti but he doesn't seem particularly bright.

I want to see how the bigshots like Nona or the Lotus guy do things.

[neflight86]

Judging by the op, I expect Genti to also have been "unable" to judge this girl and make her into his pet human going forward.

[shinta|hikari]

Idol to hell, garu to reincarnation, period.

[Ryllharu]

The practically ancient Gyaru That is Actually Way Prettier Without Makeup gag never gets old. Ever.

[lelouch]

Episode 7:


Worst episode of the season so far

[Buffalobiian]

Worst episode of the season so far

Why's that? (We seem to have pretty opposite opinions in general, not that it's happening deliberately).

I agree with your previous comment though. Ginti is a shitty arbiter.

I find this episode to be particularly important and enjoyable because it puts perspective on things. As much as Decim sucks as an Arbiter, he's actually the only one trying to do a good job at it. We knew Ginti sees it as just entertainment, but now we know everyone else is just as indifferent about it as well. It's not necessarily their fault, the system's built that way. I have my doubts about whether Decim's really forgotten all the guests' memories though. That face seemed ambiguous to me. At the same time I don't think Decim's ever lied either, so who knows.

Nona too wants to judge people in other ways than to just compare their darkest parts.

[shinta|hikari]

Decim's important thing: Kurokami.

I liked this episode. Just when the formula was getting old, they do a change up.

Nona plays a bigger role than I imagined, and Decim, our MC, finally got his unique trait. Kurokami's reaction to Decim's 'hobby' was priceless.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 08 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=660544)

------------------------------











I was going to suggest that the two could be related to each other, but the preview shows otherwise. (That is, the wife assaulted the sister, the kid killed the wife, and the two have a death battle). It's always assumed the perpetrator would be male so I thought they'd try something different.

[Ryllharu]

[HorribleSubs] Death Parade - 11 (http://nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=668087)



What an understated and beautiful episode.

Made me tear up a bit, twice actually. Once toward the middle and once again right before the credits.

[shinta|hikari]

One part of this episode just made no sense whatsoever.

Why the hell did they not choose a sleeveless dress for her in the skating scene!?

Other than that, great episode. The horrors of the judgment system were brutally portrayed. I wonder what Decim intends to do now. Flower hair dude better not hurt Nona, or I'm gonna pluck each of those petals with rusty pliers.

[Buffalobiian]

http://i.imgur.com/glGhdR4.jpg

The thought of Yagami Light being judged cracked me up.

Other than that, it's a good episode as you guys have said. I don't agree completely with everything that's been said in this episode though.

Decim said that these tests were creating new instances of darkness in people's hearts that weren't there during their life. Assuming that testing for darkness is correct in the first place, it really depends on whether you're interested in potential darkness or experienced darkness. Some people simply haven't been pushed before, and as Chiyuki says - everyone's prone to negative emotions when prodded. In fact, that makes it all the more important to bait them. Would you kill if given the chance?

You see a similar problem with diagnosis in psychiatry. Someone with acrophobia has to fear height to the extent that it impairs social functionality. Someone with the same degree of fear would not fit the criteria if they lived in their one-story farmhouse their entire lives. Thing is, in psychiatry you don't need to label and fix someone's problem if they're not hindered by it in the first place. However, if you're deciding which of the two people are "worse" and sending them off to the void then an even playing field is required. You can't just leave the test up to life experience.

Chiyuki calls people simple, but I'd rather say they're complex. They're even more complex than Decim sees them to be.

I'm not sure I fully understand Genti's judgement. There is no reason to lie about where he's sending her. Does that mean he decided to throw her into the void out of spite? Was that the horror you're talking about Shinta? Or.. just that you become nothing?

[Ryllharu]

I'm not sure I fully understand Genti's judgement. There is no reason to lie about where he's sending her. Does that mean he decided to throw her into the void out of spite? Was that the horror you're talking about Shinta? Or.. just that you become nothing?

I'm gonna address this one first, but it actually applies to your entire post.

Ginti had been completely flummoxed by Mayu, he had no idea what to do with her, and this was right after he confronted Decim about being unable to decide on Chiyuki. In many of the cases Chiyuki presided over with Decim, and now with Ginti, it proved that their system does not work. You can push people to the breaking point, but it still may not show their true darkness. In fact, it might do the opposite.

Mayu was pushed to the limit, but chose to sacrifice herself. Harada was a real rat bastard, but he actually regretted what he had done once he saw Mayu be "killed" in his place.

Ginti, still at a loss for what to do, decided that he would try one last shot at proving Mayu was bad and should be sent to the void, or good and reincarnated. He gave her a simple choice. 'I'll save you and Harada if you choose to condemn this man instead.' Despite his expectations, Mayu chose to be voided with Harada rather than judge someone she doesn't know a damn thing about. What happened (and why this part of the episode was equally beautiful) was that Mayu was reunited with a redeemed Harada in the void.

The void is only hell if you are sent there alone. Mayu and Harada will fall through oblivion forever...together.

The Tale of Two Murderers was the mirror to this. You had a kid who did evil for all the right reasons, and a man who was a far better representation of what Psycho Pass 2 pretended they knew how to depict: corrupting evil. The kid should have been spared, but the Arbiter methodology of pushing people to their breaking point resulted in two souls needed to be condemned instead of just one. Instead of two people being redeemed in the void thanks to the inherent good within one of them, you had two people being doomed to the void because of the other's corrupting influence.

People are actually not complex. Just a slight difference can send them tumbling one way or the other. If Mayu hadn't been so innocent in her love, Harada might have not been redeemed. If the kid hadn't been pushed over the edge just to see if he would fall, he might have displayed to the cop that people are capable of resisting the need to continue delivering "justice." To show him that his mission, methods, and motivations were repulsive.

One doesn't need some elaborate farce to prove a person's worth or merit, that's only going to force the result to meet the expectations of the examiner. The old woman was judged on nothing more than a conversation and a review of her memories. The reunited childhood friends played a shy and awkward game until they were gently able to open up to each other.

People get hurt, they cry. They get angry, they lash out. They're happy, they smile. People react to and reflect the situations they are placed in. They are surprisingly simple.

[shinta|hikari]

Ginti, still at a loss for what to do, decided that he would try one last shot at proving Mayu was bad and should be sent to the void, or good and reincarnated. He gave her a simple choice. 'I'll save you and Harada if you choose to condemn this man instead.' Despite his expectations, Mayu chose to be voided with Harada rather than judge someone she doesn't know a damn thing about. What happened (and why this part of the episode was equally beautiful) was that Mayu was reunited with a redeemed Harada in the void.

This wasn't what happened. When Ginti told her to choose either Harada or Light to drop into the void, she chose Light. When they got into the elevator, Mayu asked, "Where are we going?" If she chose to join Harada into the void, she obviously wouldn't ask that question.

Ginti then answered, "Where Harada's soul is." This can indeed be interpreted to mean she knew where they were truly heading because she had a rough idea that his soul had been sent to the void before, but her next line wouldn't make sense if that was the case. "Will he really wake up?" she asked. Ginti had already explained to her what kind of place the void is. The void is a graveyard of souls, where only the consciousness remains. Taking his body there to wake him up makes little sense with that in mind.

That conversation implies that Mayu did indeed drop Light to the void. By doing so, she believed she has saved Harada. Ginti then tricked her and told her to drag Harada's body to the elevator and pick up his soul to wake him up.

That was why the elevator mask was fake. That was why Mayu was so shocked when they started becoming dolls. That was why Ginti was so satisfied.

He managed to "pull out" her darkness by forcing her to make a ridiculous choice. There was no way for her to let Harada go into the void, even if they were to be together. She loved him too much and was too selfless for that. By making it a choice between Harada and some other fellow, Ginti compelled Mayu to make an "evil and selfish" choice.

That's what I meant when I said that the horrors of the judgment system was brutally portrayed. It has no fairness or meaning. Ginti is right. Arbiters judge just because they do. They aren't equipped, deserving, or even truly willing.

I agree with you about the conclusion. Mayu got a semi-happy end because her soul was joined with Harada's, and that, at least, sort of rewarded her dedication.

EDIT: Additional evidence that she dropped Light (kudos to the creators for this) into the void:
At the beginning of the elevator scene, Mayu was looking at her right hand with guilt. It was probably the same hand she used to press the red button. There's no other reason for the animators to draw that scene like that.

[Ryllharu]

I'm sorry, but your interpretation of the events is just not correct.

Ginti devilishly smiles post-credits episode 10 when he recreates Harada, with the intent to trick Mayu. He's frustrated and pissed at her when they go to the elevators in episode 11 because she defied is expectations yet again.

Mayu was told to 1) Choose someone to swap Harada with while Ginti "brings him back", something we know is impossible, or 2) Leave Harada to the void, something Mayu could never stand for.

Mayu chose option 3). Go to the void too, where Harada is, rather than fulfill the deal and "get him back," which in turn would have gotten her condemned.


Ginti: "Harada or this guy. You choose who gets thrown in there."
Mayu: "Eh?"
...
Mayu stops right before she presses the button as asks who this is. Ginti refuses, saying she doesn't need to know.
Ginti: "What kind of person would it take to cast Harada into the void?" [Who would Mayu choose to save in order to give up Harada?]
Mayu: "There's no way I'd ever do that!" [There's no way Mayu would ever give up on Harada.]
Ginti: "Then you've already given me your answer, right?" [Ginti is saying that she's always going to choose to save Harada.]
Mayu hesitates.


When we see them again, Harada and she both go to the elevator, knowing she's going to go where he is and be reunited there rather than as part of sparing him from the void, per the deal Ginti created to trick her. Mayu refused to choose, and asked to go to the void where Harada is, rather than accept the deal.

Mayu: 'There must be some meaning in devoting my life to Harada without thinking about why?!'
Ginti: "Wouldn't that be nice..."
Doors shut.
Ginti: "And that's that."

Their souls fall, but spiral together and finally merge. If Mayu was being secretly punished for making a selfish choice, their souls would have been separated or she would have gone in a separate elevator.

The final image of the dolls holding hands reveals their fate. There is far less meaning to the masks than you're giving them credit for. They only indicate direction, not the judgment.

edit:

EDIT: Additional evidence that she dropped Light (kudos to the creators for this) into the void:
At the beginning of the elevator scene, Mayu was looking at her right hand with guilt. It was probably the same hand she used to press the red button. There's no other reason for the animators to draw that scene like that.
Ambiguity is what makes this series as good as it is. But again I cannot agree. You could easily interpret that same shot as her not choosing, and regretting for [B]not swapping him for someone else. She looks at Harada's unconscious face next, then asks where they will be going. She wouldn't have to ask if she had agreed to his trap because Ginti was supposedly going to bring Harada's soul back in exchange for "Light" being condemned.

Ginti asks what Harada means to her because he can't understand why she would choose to be with Harada rather than to condemn a potential innocent to try to save him.

[Buffalobiian]

Their souls fall, but spiral together and finally merge. If Mayu was being secretly punished for making a selfish choice, their souls would have been separated or she would have gone in a separate elevator.

The final image of the dolls holding hands reveals their fate. There is far less meaning to the masks than you're giving them credit for. They only indicate direction, not the judgment.


But, then why do they not hop into the elevator that's already going to hell? The only point of taking the Heaven elevator only to swap it would be:

1) a change of mind
2) a trick.

As for the judgement system, it's a game of who cracks first. It's not about how sad or sorry or regretful people are for their wrongs. It's about how corruptible they are, not much they repent afterwards.

Whether that should be the correct metric is the question, but I do think that for what they're trying to do (measure maximum darkness), the Arbiters are doing an awfully good job at it.


People are actually not complex. Just a slight difference can send them tumbling one way or the other. If Mayu hadn't been so innocent in her love, Harada might have not been redeemed. If the kid hadn't been pushed over the edge just to see if he would fall, he might have displayed to the cop that people are capable of resisting the need to continue delivering "justice."

But that is complex, and much more complex than the way Arbiters look at humans. From their view, they see fear as the only key motivator in humans. If they sin when provoked they're bad. If they hold out they're good.

That's the simplest look on humans we've seen here. If we weren't so complex, Decim wouldn't struggle to understand us. He wouldn't be reading everything at face value.

[Ryllharu]

Like I said, you're both putting way too much faith into the elevator signs.

Quite a number of times they haven't even shown them.

[lelouch]

Was that seriously light? Episode #?

[shinta|hikari]

@Ryll - Pardon the length. I wanted to be thorough.

The lines you quoted do not really support your conclusions. Your conclusions merely fill in the blanks instead of deducing the events based on what was said.


She looks at Harada's unconscious face next, then asks where they will be going. She wouldn't have to ask if she had agreed to his trap because Ginti was supposedly going to bring Harada's soul back in exchange for "Light" being condemned.

I addressed this in my first post. It makes perfect sense if Ginti told her to pick up Harada's soul and wake him up. Why would Ginto do this? To be consistent with the rest of the lie/trick. If Mayu believes that she has saved Harada, it follows that Harada needs his soul back, and that's what Ginti said to her. Tricking her into riding the same elevator to hell as Harada is simply Ginti following through with his trap (the choice of saving Harada). We all know that choice was designed to trick Mayu into making a bad choice and going to the void.

I'll return the same question to you. If she proposed to go to the void with Harada, why did she ask where they were going? She should already know.

A couple more questions that contradict your interpretation:

Why did she think Harada will wake up (basically get his soul back in his body) if the void is a graveyard of souls, where only the consciousness remains? Ginti explained this to her in this very episode. It even freaked her out.

Why was Ginti so vague when he answered where the two were going? "Where Harada's soul is." Why not just say the void if she made the choice you claim she did? The vagueness supports the idea that it's all Ginti's trick.

Why did Ginti do the elevator mask swap? You're not putting enough meaning into the elevator signs. You praise the show for its subtlety, but you completely ignore how they swapped the elevator sign after the two were inside. Why not just go down using the elevator to hell? It's just a few steps to the left. They animated it that way for a reason.

Why was Mayu so shocked about whatever was happening to them if she knows she's about to go to the void and lose her body?

Why was Ginti satisfied at the end, despite trying his best the entire time to drop Mayu into hell by making her do something evil? Did you just say Ginti was frustrated and pissed at her? She just lambasted him, but all he did was send her off with a sarcastic "Wouldn't that be nice?" and a "This is how it should be." ("That's that" is a rather poor translation of "Kore de ii"). I think he was pretty satisfied with the shit he pulled in the end. If he wasn't, he would be complaining like the bitch he usually sounds like.

I don't understand why you are ignoring these clues and saying they simply aren't relevant.

The biggest jump you did is claiming that somehow there is a 3rd choice. Where did that even come from? Why would you think Ginti, who cares so little about humans and who is so adamant about his judgment method, would even allow her to make such a choice?


Ginti asks what Harada means to her because he can't understand why she would choose to be with Harada rather than to condemn a potential innocent to try to save him.

Or because she was willing to dirty her hands, something she adamantly refused to do before, to save Harada?


If Mayu was being secretly punished for making a selfish choice, their souls would have been separated or she would have gone in a separate elevator.

This is complete speculation. The void is the void. When did arbiters ever care about how you go there?

It's possible Ginti has never sent anyone to reincarnation. Why? Because Mayu clearly deserves that. She's a good girl that died by accident. Why send her to the void in the first place? Why try so hard to test her again and again until she actually fell?

TLDR: I believe the explanation with less assumptions.

[Ryllharu]

They never show Mayu actually making a choice. Never. All we see is her hesitating over and over.

Your explanation actually has no fewer assumptions.

- That the mask flip has any deeper meaning. Both elevators can flip masks. They do it all the time. Just saying, "well the animators put it in, it must be really important!" is terrible reasoning. Ginti also has a cat, and that hasn't had any impact on anything. You can easily say that the mask starts the one way and flips to the other because Mayu is actually being rewarded (which she is), but flips because they still have to go to the void.

- Who wouldn't be shocked their body is disintegrating? Chiyuki had the same reaction when hers started to flake.

- You say Ginti was satisfied, I say Ginti was resigned. Interpretable either way apparently, though I will never agree with yours. The tone of his last line agrees with me.

Ginti couldn't judge her, but wanted a reason to make a decision. He didn't get it. When she refused to play along, he sent them to the void together, not separately. Mayu wasn't willing to sacrifice someone else for Harada, and wasn't willing to abandon him either. Your interpretation can't explain their souls merging together, and the final shot being of two mannequin's holding hands.

We can keep going, or we can agree to disagree.

[Xelbair]

I've got another theory.

Ginti rigged the choice to send Mayu to void. there are few clues: Harada was already in void(which is assumption too, mind you), you can't get back from void.
if she chooses to sacrifice the stranger - she goes to void.
if she chooses to sacrifice herself - she goes to void.
she wouldn't ever chose to sacrifice Harada because that would violate her raison d'etre.

i also think that this Light was just a doll without soul.

now another thing: i do think that masks aren't always showing the same destination! - it depends on personal interpretation of human being sent. For some being removed from human world might be a reward mind you(when you look at reincarnation - the whole idea is to break out of that cycle) - but for it to be a reward you need to live a 100% good life(no doubts), with no error margin.
This would make sense too - she was sent to void, but together - with someone she truly loves - it was basically the supreme reward for her - even if realistically it is a punishment for everyone else.

She had to press the button when she made a DECISION. not when she wanted to SACRIFICE the stranger.. so assuming that her looking at the hand means that she sacrificed the stranger is kinda.. wrong. She just had slight second thought about her decision(which was never ever explicitly shown) - probably because it was final, and she didn't had full information and had to kinda guess.

another thing - didn't Ginti's bar had only one lift? would't it make sense for mask to return to default state? we also don't know if void is above, or below.

[shinta|hikari]

@Ryll -
My idea has less assumptions because I didn't make up a third choice. When given a multiple choice question with only A and B as answers, I think answering C is considered the more out-of the-box one. Even you agree since you said it surprised Ginti in your imagined scenario.

I'm not entirely sure, but has the mask ever flipped after the people were inside the closed elevator? I think it has always stayed how it was. In previous episodes, they only delayed the display of the mask within the camera frame for suspense, but this is the first time it changed post entry. They even zoomed in on the mask switch. If it has no meaning, why waste frames on that? False analogy on the cat, btw.

Who wouldn't be shocked when they see their body disintegrating? Someone who knows they were about to lose it because they chose to do so.

Let's agree to disagree about Ginti's tone.

That leaves two things:

Why did Mayu ask where they were going if she asked to be sent to the void with Harada?

Why did she think that Harada would wake up despite knowing what kind of place the void was?

@Xel - Episode 11 showed two elevators in Ginti's bar. The other one had the devil mask on it. That's why I think the mask switch has meaning. If Mayu intended to go into the void, why didn't they just use the devil elevator 4 paces to the left?

On a different topic, did Ginti also lie when he said that the two were going to where Harada's soul was? Wasn't his soul inside his lifeless body? When the pair fell into the void, his soul popped out from that body, after all. Or did his banished soul go back inside the puppet for a moment when they were in the void, causing Harada to open his eyes for a moment, only to pop back out again after they became complete puppets? After writing it down, the latter sounds like it makes more sense.

[Buffalobiian]

now another thing: i do think that masks aren't always showing the same destination! - it depends on personal interpretation of human being sent. For some being removed from human world might be a reward mind you(when you look at reincarnation - the whole idea is to break out of that cycle) - but for it to be a reward you need to live a 100% good life(no doubts), with no error margin.
This would make sense too - she was sent to void, but together - with someone she truly loves - it was basically the supreme reward for her - even if realistically it is a punishment for everyone else.

So why the change in mask? If the place she was going to was so rewarding, why is there a need to change from Heaven to Hell? Also, if you watched Death Billiard, the old dude smiled triumphantly as he was sent to Hell. I don't think this idea stands.



Ginti rigged the choice to send Mayu to void. there are few clues: Harada was already in void(which is assumption too, mind you), you can't get back from void.
if she chooses to sacrifice the stranger - she goes to void.
if she chooses to sacrifice herself - she goes to void.
she wouldn't ever chose to sacrifice Harada because that would violate her raison d'etre.

I don't think that's the case. Arbiters exist to judge people. They don't just send people to whatever place the people demand, be it void or reincarnation. That would be undermining their role.
-I believe that if Mayu chose to sacrifice herself, she'd have been reincarnated because that shows she's a good person.
-If she chose Light to go to the void, she's dooming someone else for a person she loves. From Ginti's perspective that's selfish and therefore evil.
-If she chose to sacrifice Harada, I see it as being neutral/good. It's letting the natural order of things happen. Whether that would have satisfied Ginti that she'd go to heaven, I don't know.

After watching the episode again, I agree with Shinta. Looking at her hand signifies she made a choice IMO, and holding onto Harada's body suggests that he was expected to have his soul returned (why hold onto it otherwise?).


I'm not entirely sure, but has the mask ever flipped after the people were inside? I think it has always stayed how it was

Never.


My idea has less assumptions because I didn't make up a third choice.

The 3rd choice (sacrificing Mayu) exists, but she quickly declined it after hearing about it. She could well have chosen to void herself ultimately, but I don't think she did. As you said, she wouldn't be asking about their destination after all.

However, in the end the elevator swap still doesn't explain everything. Ginti's all powerful here. He doesn't need to trick anyone into hopping into an elevator. All he has to do is prove they're a bad person (the choice), then say "You're selfish, go to hell". Decim's strung people to their elevators at least once.

It's because of there not being a need to trick that I still wonder if the change in elevator was an after-thought from their final conversation.

[shinta|hikari]

The 3rd choice (sacrificing Mayu) exists, but she quickly declined it after hearing about it. She could well have chosen to void herself ultimately, but I don't think she did. As you said, she wouldn't be asking about their destination after all.

That choice was for Mayu to go to the void, but Harada gets saved. She actually wanted to do that, but Ginti scared her and provided a different choice (B) in its place. That's why I said only choices A (Harada drops) and B (Light drops) exist. If you think C (only Mayu drops) was still on the table, then that's fine. It still doesn't mean that D (both Mayu and Harada drop together... really where did this come from) was ever offered, nor did Ginti have a reason to take such a suggestion from Mayu.



However, in the end the elevator swap still doesn't explain everything. Ginti's all powerful here. He doesn't need to trick anyone into hopping into an elevator. All he has to do is prove they're a bad person (the choice), then say "You're selfish, go to hell". Decim's strung people to their elevators at least once.

It's because of there not being a need to trick that I still wonder if the change in elevator was an after-thought from their final conversation.

He doesn't need to trick Mayu, but it's a lot easier that way. Why force her inside and reveal his own lie (and insecurity) when he can just continue the lie and drop her to the void without hassle? In the first place, physical intervention is a last resort to arbiters. As seen in all the episodes, the first thing they do is trick people with misunderstandings, half-truths, and lies. That's simply what he did.

You know what's funny? I've been arguing about this thing with Ryll, but there are two lines in the episode that practically cement that Mayu would never let Harada fall into the void, with or without her.

Ginti: "What kind of person would it take (referring to substitute) to cast Harada in the void?
Mayu: "Sore dake wa zettai ni dame." (translates to: That is absolutely not possible/not an option.) HS's "There's no way I'd do that." is fine too.

How can you expect me to believe that she chose to drop both of them into a place she feared herself and declared she would never put Harada in right after this exchange?

[Buffalobiian]

I suppose. In the end I decided that it was a case of "I need to see it in action, words are not strong enough" that Decim also abided by - hence the need to see her into the elevator.

[shinta|hikari]

You could also say that he wanted to ask his final question about why Harada was so valuable to Mayu. Mayu would find it hard to answer coherently, much less honestly, if she had been pressed against the elevator wall using PK.

[Xelbair]

So why the change in mask? If the place she was going to was so rewarding, why is there a need to change from Heaven to Hell? Also, if you watched Death Billiard, the old dude smiled triumphantly as he was sent to Hell. I don't think this idea stands.


Because for her it was akin to heaven, and when the elevator closed it either returned to objective state(void) or to ginti's subjective status(void).

[Buffalobiian]

Because for her it was akin to heaven, and when the elevator closed it either returned to objective state(void) or to ginti's subjective status(void).

And what about in Death Billiard, where the dude smiled as he was sent to the void? The mask there didn't change at all either. I don't think this theory stands because participants aren't necessarily told where they're going, so subjective feelings about their destination affecting the mask would be strange.

[Xelbair]

why so? he wanted to go to void, but it wasn't a reward for him.

[Buffalobiian]

...

Explain how that's the case. He smiled like he won. That's not an altruistic smile.

[Ryllharu]

They go out in the same elevators they came in, because it doesn't matter. It is intentionally ambiguous.

The younger guy won the game, but in 'killing' the old man while in Quindecim, he was judged as unworthy and sent to hell. The old man is smiling because he knew he won the true game they were playing. Decim states he ignored their past when the younger guy accuses him of pre-judgment(interestingly, something Nona reprimands him for in the series) and that they came into the bar on equal footing.

Decim deliberately doesn't tell Chiyuki which went where when she asks.

That's because the masks don't mean anything in the OVA.


...and they don't mean a whole hell of a lot in the series overall (because they often don't show them), but they decided to change that a bit to make it a bit easier for the viewers who don't want to have to think about which it is for the less conventional cases.

- Mayu was sent to the void with Harada, but for her it is heaven. That's why it switches. It is an ambiguous result. A seeming punishment, but yet it is actually a reward.
- Harada, redeemed slightly, finally found a woman who cherishes him for nothing more than who he is, and that alone. Not because he's an idol, not because he's famous, not because he is attracted to her, not because he's a good lay, just because he is Harada. Still punished for being an asshole, but a minor reward for his redeeming actions to try and save Mayu as she fell.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 12 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=670914)

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This was a good episode in that I got teary and we finally see Chiyuki off with a decision. However overall all the story does is explore judgements without coming to any real conclusion. I was expecting a conclusion or an answer to all this philosophical exploring they did, so by definition I'm disappointed.

Character interactions were lovely to watch for 12 episodes. I would still recommend this show for a bit of something different. Sadly for all the build-up we don't see Decim revolutionising judgement, nor do we see a ruined Arbiter as a result of breaking the 4th rule.

[shinta|hikari]

That is exactly how I felt. I would change my evaluation if there was a 2nd season though.

Creepy flower hair dude is creepy.

Cute Nona is cute.

If you want a story with proper build up and conclusion, watch Shirobako. I've been finishing a bunch of series one after another, and so far , that's the only one that has a nicely executed ending, excluding Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso because that deserves a separate category.

I don't like asspull explanations for mysteries, but I also don't appreciate having a story that revolves around mystery and not resolving the most critical ones in the end.

[Buffalobiian]

Ryll will tell us that resolving things on screen is only for those who need help. -_-

[shinta|hikari]

-_- Yeah, whatever.

[neflight86]

Great ending to a great series in my opinion. The whole situation was the result of a mistake to begin with and its not like Decim is in any position to change how things are on a large scale, but with the bittersweet separation of the two I feel at peace that he has adapted some of her principles to become a more hospitable, insightful arbiter. That's the most lasing impression their working relationship can have on him since his memories are periodically wiped anyway.

*edit: Also, props to Funimation for the likewise stellar simuldub (-5 weeks) for this one.