Spoiler tag debate.

[DarthEnderX]

Continuing from the Hunter X Hunter thread (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/20191-Hunter-x-Hunter-2011?p=539832&viewfull=1#post539832).


Our rules forbid spoilers, so what use do we have for spoiler tags?This exact situation I guess. Where someone wants to talk about the preview, but not everyone wants to read about it.

I also like using spoiler tags for when I want to post a huge image, but I don't want to stretch out the forum for anyone. It lets someone look at the image, then close the spoiler to hide the image and put the forum back to it's normal dimensions.

[Munsu]

There won't be spoiler tags, it's been debated for a decade now.

But feel free to discuss among yourselves... but, there won't be any.

[shinta|hikari]

Won't doing the manual text spoiler tag be fine? Like,

Spoiler from preview:





Whatever.

[Munsu]

Won't doing the manual text spoiler tag be fine? Like,

Spoiler from preview:





Whatever.

You can do whatever you want, but it's not a substitute for a spoiler tag... as in, if it's something that is considered by our rules as a spoiler, putting it that way won't save you.

As for the previews situation, since it's not considered spoiler in Gotwoot, you can surely do it that way if you want... but not required.

As for those that don't care to watch previews, that should be a good compromise for them, even if unneeded.

What I don't want to see though is a bunch of discussion and back and forth arguments all being hidden that way just to be "prudent", because that defeats the purposes of not wanting to have spoiler tags around in the first place.

[Alhuin]

I'm not necessarily for or against the idea of spoiler tags, but I am curious as to why there is such a vehement stance against them on the part of the mods. Like, to straight up, without a doubt, regardless of input from the people who use the forums, completely deny something that really doesn't seem like that big of a deal just perplexes me. Something must've happened in years past to make you (all (assuming there are multiple people)) feel this way. Would it be too much to shed some light on that?

[MFauli]

So, Munsu, what´s the argument against spoiler tags? I must have been absent when that was discussed.

From how you worded it above, I think you´re taking the "spoiler-tags" name too literal. We don´t want spoiler-tags so we can freely talk about actual spoilers, like talking about what happens in Attack on Titan after the anime-end. Rather, we want those spoiler-tags as a comfortable, quick tool to hide text that not everybody necessarily wants to see. Preview talk is the main reason here. Another example, and extremely common in other boards, is when you´re talking about a videogame. When a new title has been released, "it´s all out". But it is common courtesy not to talk freely about plot points or surprising/fun character scenes, because other player might not yet have reached that point in the game. So you use spoiler-tags, even though you could argue that everything is out in the public and thus naturally "not a spoiler".

So, my argument would be that talking about previews in anime is the same as talking about mid-to-late content in a videogame. It´s polite not spoil it, even though it technically cannot be called spoiler. Therefore spoiler tags.

[Munsu]

So, Munsu, what´s the argument against spoiler tags? I must have been absent when that was discussed.

Don't care to waste more time on this as it is, but the main gist of it is unneeded when Gotwoot has a hard line policy against spoilers in the first place regardless if spoiler tags are in place or not. What you'll find then is a bunch of discussion hidden by spoiler tags just because people are unsure of what should be included in tags or not, so they go with the tags "just to be safe". It's a pain in the ass.

To give you an example, you go to Animesuki, and you can sometimes go full pages with all the content hidden by spoiler tags... and half of it shouldn't have been in the first place.

It just plain sucks.

And that's just ONE issue I have with it.

And then you find the spoiler tags mine, because you just have to risk opening the spoiler tag because it's usage is so inconsistent that you feel confident that what's inside a spoiler isn't really a spoiler for you.. then bam, you get hit with a spoiler because you couldn't resist...

And so on...

Yes, spoiler tags can be useful... but they can also be a pain in the ass, an unneeded pain in the ass that will transform the nature of GotWoot discussions in a manner I don't care for. I might as well go to Animesuki and be done with it (and I never cared for how they go about discussing stuff).

[Kraco]

The points Bud mentioned bother me also greatly, and I've experienced them elsewhere in an identical manner (though that place is now most likely dead). To add to his list, I might mention they make moderating the forum harder in a whole bunch of ways: 1) In the heat of the moment people might feel they can spoil a little since its in spoiler tags, 2) More people will skip reporting spoilers (and other stuff) since they will skip reading spoiler tagged stuff, 3) People might not actually report tagged spoilers even after reading them, instead blaming themselves for revealing the spoiler under the tags, 4) For mods themselves it's an extra mechanical burden to go through a thread clicking all spoiler tags.

Though to be honest this forum is half-dead and spoilers get reported maybe twice a year... So, I guess for me personally the real reason is that I simply learned to hate the tags when reading that other forum, which had no spoiler rules whatsoever, apart from suggesting people use the tags to hide everything they though might spoil something for somebody. Sometimes most posts in a thread were spoiler tagged, and you never knew what was inside them, but reading the forum was impossible without doing it. So, you read an episode discussion thread, clicking the spoiler tag every time somebody had something to say about the current episode (because it would be a spoiler for somebody who hadn't seen the ep yet, but was still reading the fricking episode specific thread, go figure), and then, bam, suddenly what was inside the tenth spoiler tagged post wasn't anymore stuff from the episode at all, but stuff from much further down the game the anime was based on. And that was perfectly okay because it was spoiler tagged. Yeah, I learned to hate the things.

[Ryllharu]

A series of spoiler tags intermixed in a thread kill discussion, for all of the reasons Kraco and Munsu detail. I've seen it (and participated) elsewhere in forums that are now dead, and it was a contributing factor.

We already have a problem with limited discussions these days. Let's not exacerbate it.

edit:
Since the old threads are scattered all over the place:
Round 1 (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/16807-Spoiler-tags)
Round 2 (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/18486-Another-VB-upgrade-pending-looking-for-input?p=464218&viewfull=1#post464218)

[DarthEnderX]

I've literally never had these problems on any forum I frequent. I've never had spoiler tags kill a conversation before.

Like Alhuin said, I feel like I'm missing some kind of specific event that happened to the rest of you or something.

It seems like a little basic common sense with labeling solves all the problems you guys are describing.

Ex.
__________________________________________________ __________

Blah, blah, blah, that fight was so awesome, my favorite part was when he did that thing!

Preview Spoilers:
Oh man, it looks like that guy shows up to save the day!
__________________________________________________ __________

or
__________________________________________________ __________

This game is great. The world is incredibly well realized and I really enjoy the combined guns and magic gameplay.

Story spoilers:
When you find out that the girl was his daughter, and that he was secretly the villain all along? My mind was blown!
__________________________________________________ __________


I can clearly see there what the spoiler pertains to, so I'm aware before I click it whether I'm caught up to the point where I can participate or not.

The only situation where this ban makes sense to me is the anime/manga divide, because if spoilers tags were allowed in anime discussions about the manga, you'd just have a bunch of manga readers having manga discussions in the anime threads.

[Kraco]

It seems like a little basic common sense with labeling solves all the problems you guys are describing.


Common sense, huh? We have here some members for whom even marking they are the first to talk about the new episode is difficult. I'm not demanding posting a link like has been a tradition, but just typing at least the fresh episode number at the top of their post and then pressing Enter a few times is seemingly too much. Instead I'm waiting for the HorribleSubs release or whatever is the most common fast one, yet somebody here has watched the stream or some release I've never seen before, and goes ahead and the first words of his post are the biggest secret revelation the episode will have. I accidentally read it because I believe the new episode isn't even out yet and thus assume the person will still be talking about the previous week's episode. No rules have been broken, but it's still a dick move in my book.

And I'm supposed to trust in a consistently stylish use of spoiler tags?

[darkshadow]

Why is this thread still open, this stuff has been debated countless times as Ryll mentioned; just close these garbage threads as soon as they show up.

[DarthEnderX]

Cause the mods told me to create it in the first place?


And I'm supposed to trust in a consistently stylish use of spoiler tags?If you're already being spoiled WITHOUT spoiler tags, do you honestly thing the existence of spoiler tags is going to cause you to get spoiled MORE somehow?

[MFauli]

Why is this thread still open, this stuff has been debated countless times as Ryll mentioned; just close these garbage threads as soon as they show up.

Yeah, FUCK other people´s interests, right? What is it with your aggressive posting style? Unneeded much.

[Ryllharu]

Lock this thread. The stance of the admin/mod team has been consistent for 5 years and two upgrades.

[Kraco]

Why do you people think threads are locked? They are locked when they go offtopic for good, when they turn too hostile, when the topic has expired (such as a birthday thread somebody digs up a month too late), or they broke the rules in whatever way. Sometimes they are also locked if the OP requested it.

They aren't locked because somebody random thinks the thread is useless. This thread is probably that since the spoiler rules are about as likely to change as North Korea adopting democracy any time soon, but if this clears the situation in DE's mind, then why not? Even if things aren't likely to change, there's nothing bad about challenging them in a civilized manner. A forum is nothing without active members.

[Edort4]

Wtf this is like discussing that people that saw the teaser of the hobit part 3 would ruin the experience for the other ones. Or someone that has read the review that appears on the cover of books of being spoiling the book for the one who still hasnt read it.

Someone broke a nail and wanted to discuss over anything. It has been next episode review like it could had been that studies should be banned from releasing trailers or even posters.

What the hell to say the truth I want everyone that wrote at the HxH thread banned cause I left the episode at the minute 12 because Its my motto to not watch them completely and they spoiled the rest of it without any respect for my habits!

[darkshadow]

Yeah, FUCK other people´s interests, right? What is it with your aggressive posting style? Unneeded much.

Yes, fuck your garbage interests and unwillingness to use the search function.

[Alhuin]

Wtf this is like discussing that people that saw the teaser of the hobit part 3 would ruin the experience for the other ones. Or someone that has read the review that appears on the cover of books of being spoiling the book for the one who still hasnt read it.

Someone broke a nail and wanted to discuss over anything. It has been next episode review like it could had been that studious should be banned from releasing trailers or even posters.

What the hell to say the truth I want everyone that wrote at the HxH thread banned cause I left the episode at the minute 12 because Its my motto to not watch them completely and they spoiled the rest of it without any respect for my habits!

....What?

To stay on topic, when I originally posted, I didn't think about the "additional mechanical burden" mods would have when doing their jobs, so I'll concede that that is a justifiable reason to not implement them. Not to mention that I totally forgot how rare common sense is. I still feel like the hatred and unwillingness to budge might be a little bit of an over-reaction, but I understand the situation now. Thanks for providing some input.

[DarthEnderX]

What the hell to say the truth I want everyone that wrote at the HxH thread banned cause I left the episode at the minute 12 because Its my motto to not watch them completely and they spoiled the rest of it without any respect for my habits!So...you actually think stopping watching the episode AFTER the credits before the thing that is specifically intended to be a spoiler for the next episode somehow equates to stopping in the middle of the episode?

[shinta|hikari]

The thing is, previews aren't spoilers. They are released at the same time as the content. They are part of the episode. It is basically a teaser to invite viewers to watch the next episode. There really is no decent argument that will support making previews as actual spoilers.

I am willing to adjust so that those who do not watch previews are not "spoiled", but that does not mean that I believe that previews are spoilers. It just means that I can compromise because I never felt that strongly in the first place.

[Kraco]

I still feel like the hatred and unwillingness to budge might be a little bit of an over-reaction, but I understand the situation now.

It's an on/off situation, so changing the opinion means a 180 degrees turn. Such a situation easily leads to overreacting.

[Edort4]

So...you actually think stopping watching the episode AFTER the credits before the thing that is specifically intended to be a spoiler for the next episode somehow equates to stopping in the middle of the episode?

In essence (being reductionist) it is. IMHO there are two major ways of spoiling.

1º Someone has seen a show/movie/whatever and it explains its content to someone who hasnt yet. But I doubt that the one who hasnt seen that yet would complain of being spoiled after going of his own free will into a content discussion thread.

2º In periodically aired shows/movies/books/films/whatever some people search for or have access to material outside the original source (episodes) that is being discussed and then goes spoiling it.

The case that was the origin for this debate falls in neither of those categories. No one had EXTRA material from outside thee original source nor did a search etc. It was ppl cutting themselves out from some material in that source. So its not one individual having information than shouldnt have (the information to spoil) its that someone has decided on his own to cut himself from some information that show provides.

Would you call it a spoiler (for example) in the Thor 2 movie discussion thread (if it exists) that people are talking/discussing about the scenes after the credits if you decided to not watch them just cause you want?

And this rises the other question: what right do you (do they?) have to ask (or impose) that other ppl cant discuss over something that you (they?) decided to cut yourself out from the material? Cause it could be as good manners to stop doing that non-spoiling as it would be good manners to stop whinning about something that you (they?) selfishly like to do.

ps. All the You in this post dont target a specific gotwooter. I use it only to express two different possitions/points of view. My english is lacking so its hard for me to do it better. Would, what I wrote in (), be more formal/impersonal?

[MFauli]

As already explained at length, I believe that the current state of HXH demands special treatment in terms of previews. We´re at a point where one episode contains like 10 seconds of realtime events. The episode where Zeno and Netero entered the battle would have been infinitely more impactful if it hadn´t been spoiled in the preview. Meanwhile, because I had stopped watching previews, the episode where Gon and Killua finally approached Pitou was super awesome. Had I watched the preview I would have known that already, and all I´d be left with would have been an interesting, but expected dialogue. A good comparison would be the final episode of Death Note. Imagine the preview had shown how Light dies. Would it still have been an interesting episode? Sure. But going into it with knowing about a character´s death just ruins tension and emotional impact.

The movies-analogy is terribad, because nobody refutes to watch those after-credits scenes just for the slim chance of it being relevant in a movie-sequel several years down the road.


Yes, fuck your garbage interests and unwillingness to use the search function.

Get lost, idiot.

[DarthEnderX]

There really is no decent argument that will support making previews as actual spoilers.There absolutely is, you just don't understand what being spoiled means.

By your definition, trailers don't spoiler movies because they're a thing that is released. Even though tons of people refuse to watch trailers because lots of movie studios don't know how to make trailers without spoiling important plot events(see, things like Ender's Game, etc.)

What you don't seem to understand is that some of us want to get the same experience the manga readers had(where they don't show you a week ahead of time what's going to be in the next chapter) from the anime.

I don't want to KNOW that suchandsuch character shows up to save the day when I had no idea about it. But they showed the fucker in the preview so now the ENTIRETY of that episode has no tension for me anymore because I already know what's going to happen.

I don't understand why you don't get that people find being surprised a pleasant experience, and that preserving that is somehow no decent argument.


And this rises the other question: what right do you (do they?) have to ask (or impose) that other ppl cant discuss over something that you (they?) decided to cut yourself out from the material? Cause it could be as good manners to stop doing that non-spoiling as it would be good manners to stop whinning about something that you (they?) selfishly like to do.This is the dumbest argument I've ever read.

You're basically saying "Hey, you know how you hate it when that guy on the subway punches you in the face? Well what right do you have to complain and ruin his face punching good time?"

[Kraco]

You're basically saying "Hey, you know how you hate it when that guy on the subway punches you in the face? Well what right do you have to complain and ruin his face punching good time?"

You need to punch him back or you are disrespecting him. He expects to be punched back, and if it doesn't happen, he won't have his face punching good time.

[shinta|hikari]

@DE - I did not write the last paragraph you quoted, so please edit that.

I guess we are simply defining spoilers differently. I am defining it in the context of this forum and its rules, while you are defining it in general. I perfectly understand your case about trailers and the like, I am just saying that you have to live with it in this case because the alternative is preventing people from watching and discussing previews. The spoiler tag is unnecessary because manually noting the succeeding text is a spoiler then changing the font to white can accomplish that.

Let's keep the solution as simple and hassle free as we can.

[Ryllharu]

This is about next episode previews ffs.

Now matter how much you might want it to be counted as a spoiler, it's never going to be. The episode is a complete package, previews and all.

Everyone gets access to the same information at the same time (which is why in contrast, Raw discussions are spoilers because not everyone is fluent in Japanese). If you are willfully not watching the preview, quit your whining or fuck off. So long as the preview is in the released episodes, they're not spoilers. It's like saying anything in the OP/ED is a spoiler, that's how fucking stupid and juvenile this is.

Web-only previews? That I'll admit is a grey area.

[darkshadow]

So this thread is about episode previews? Hhahahahahahahahaha....jesus christ gotwoot..

[MFauli]

This is about next episode previews ffs.

Now matter how much you might want it to be counted as a spoiler, it's never going to be. The episode is a complete package, previews and all.

Everyone gets access to the same information at the same time (which is why in contrast, Raw discussions are spoilers because not everyone is fluent in Japanese). If you are willfully not watching the preview, quit your whining or fuck off. So long as the preview is in the released episodes, they're not spoilers. It's like saying anything in the OP/ED is a spoiler, that's how fucking stupid and juvenile this is.

Web-only previews? That I'll admit is a grey area.

So once a videogame is released, it´s okay to talk about all of its content, even when it´s highly likely that many people have not yet reached that point in the game? Sounds fair.

:|

[Ryllharu]

So once a videogame is released, it´s okay to talk about all of its content, even when it´s highly likely that many people have not yet reached that point in the game? Sounds fair.

:|
Take a look at any FSN-related thread. The rules are different. No one discusses the game in the anime threads, even though it is from 2004.

Games are not anime. Even VNs in general are discussed in only vague statements.

We do actually use common sense here at gotwoot. This request exceeds common sense.

edit:
Movies are treated the same as anime episodes. Once it is out in theaters, it's fair game. Even when Europe or America gets the respective film a month in advance. Expect DS to kline you from IRC if you spoil a movie though, but IRC isn't the forums.

[DarthEnderX]

I also don't understand this notion of "not letting people talk about the preview kills discussion" when it's pretty much the exact opposite of that.

Case in point, the situation that started this discussion went something like:

User1: Oh man, I wonder how he's gonna deal with this situation?
User2: Maybe he's gonna do this thing?
User1: Yeah, that could work.
User3: It's also possible that he'd have to do this.
User4: The preview shows him doing this.
*discussion assassinated because there's literally nothing left to talk about at that point*


@DE - I did not write the last paragraph you quoted, so please edit that.Oop, you're right, sorry.


I guess we are simply defining spoilers differently. I am defining it in the context of this forum and its rules, while you are defining it in general.Fair enough. But understand that the whole reason I made this thread is because I'm pleading a case for this forum and it's rules to have the same definition of spoilers as the general definition of spoilers.

I fully understand that that's not the case, and the mods aren't likely to change it, but I made the thread to explain my point of view anyway.

The argument of "that's just the way they're doing it, deal with it" is not a rational argument, and therefor not one I'm prepared to accept.


Everyone gets access to the same information at the same time (which is why in contrast, Raw discussions are spoilers because not everyone is fluent in Japanese). If you are willfully not watching the preview, quit your whining or fuck off. So long as the preview is in the released episodes, they're not spoilers.Again, this argument is basically like saying "Manga readers should be able to discuss the manga in the anime threads because, hey, that information is out there, it's not the manga readers fault that people are willfully not reading the manga and waiting for the anime!"

I just don't see the reason why whatever scenes are contained in the preview can't be discussed in the next weeks thread after it's actually, you know, aired in it's full context.


It's like saying anything in the OP/ED is a spoilerWell, it usually is. If anyone said "don't discuss One Piece openings cause they're always full of spoilers" then I wouldn't.


So this thread is about episode previews?Sorry, but some people give a shit.

I literally know, like, zero people in real life that wouldn't punch a person in the throat if they tried to talk about a Breaking Bad episode preview before they'd seen the next episode.


Movies are treated the same as anime episodes. Once it is out in theaters, it's fair game.Well, that's a terrible policy too.

Maybe I haven't decided whether I want to even see a movie yet, and I want to get opinions on people who've seen it as to whether it's good or not. Of course, if there's no spoilers, I can't go to the movie's thread for that, because if it was good, I also know everything that happens in it already, so why bother going?

[Edort4]

This is the dumbest argument I've ever read.

You're basically saying "Hey, you know how you hate it when that guy on the subway punches you in the face? Well what right do you have to complain and ruin his face punching good time?"

I dont even know where to start with this comparison. There are no words to froce sense into the brain that created this pararelism so I wont even try :p. If you think that not wanting someone to do something that you dislike(subjectively) is the same as being hit I cant help it. Just burn after reading.


You need to punch him back or you are disrespecting him. He expects to be punched back, and if it doesn't happen, he won't have his face punching good time.

I guess its contagious. :p We have some guys here that think that is cool to force other people to not discuss (or avoid it) about something from an actual episode (I dont give a fuck if its minute 1 or 24) because they dont like it, a selfish infatuation, and if you tell them that they are forcing that on you they even get mad an start relating you to some kind of aggression paralelisms. At least no one used the nazi word yet :rolleyes:

ps. I dont actually give a fuck about preview, never watch them cause I get sick of seeing the same endings again and again, and lately the ending music is garbage. But its part of the episode. So the normal is that it gets (or could get) inside an episode discussion. Asking to avoid it is the aberrant action.

[Ryllharu]

Again, this argument is basically like saying "Manga readers should be able to discuss the manga in the anime threads because, hey, that information is out there, it's not the manga readers fault that people are willfully not reading the manga and waiting for the anime!"
Bad comparison. Manga spoilers, and even some comparisons, are explicitly banned by the rules.

Btw...speaking of the rules:


•Revealing the titles of upcoming arcs or upcoming episode titles which contain spoilers. Obviously doesn't apply when an anime episode preview makes this title clear. Some arc/episode titles may not reveal anything about the future of an anime, but some do, and it's just best not to name them in anime only sections.

Emphasis mine. The inference is obvious. Previews are fair game. Only raws are considered spoilers when it comes to the episodes themselves.


I just don't see the reason why whatever scenes are contained in the preview can't be discussed in the next weeks thread after it's actually, you know, aired in it's full context.Because previews can be intentionally misleading (the good ones are), so they're just as worthy of discussion.



Well, it usually is. If anyone said "don't discuss One Piece openings cause they're always full of spoilers" then I wouldn't.And the requester would be immediately ridiculed for it, because we use common sense here. There was a "spoiler" in the Log Horizon OP, but most of us active posters didn't notice because none of us watched the OP. After someone pointed it out, none of us complained. It was our fault for not watching the OP.

[darkshadow]

I also don't understand this notion of "not letting people talk about the preview kills discussion" when it's pretty much the exact opposite of that.

Case in point, the situation that started this discussion went something like:

User1: Oh man, I wonder how he's gonna deal with this situation?
User2: Maybe he's gonna do this thing?
User1: Yeah, that could work.
User3: It's also possible that he'd have to do this.
User4: The preview shows him doing this.
*discussion assassinated because there's literally nothing left to talk about at that point*


Or you could just be a normal person and discuss the preview+, it's literally impossible the preview details every upcoming event in a show.



Sorry, but some people give a shit.

I literally know, like, zero people in real life that wouldn't punch a person in the throat if they tried to talk about a Breaking Bad episode preview before they'd seen the next episode.


Stop hanging out with violently insane people.



Well, that's a terrible policy too.

Maybe I haven't decided whether I want to even see a movie yet, and I want to get opinions on people who've seen it as to whether it's good or not. Of course, if there's no spoilers, I can't go to the movie's thread for that, because if it was good, I also know everything that happens in it already, so why bother going?

Why bother going? How about going for the reason threads exist?




-DISCUSSION-.

It's insanely irrational and egotistical to expect people in a discussion thread to fucking dance around spoilers just because you might get your feelings hurt.

[Edort4]

-DISCUSSION-.

It's insanely irrational and egotistical to expect people in a discussion thread to fucking dance around spoilers just because you might get your feelings hurt.

This. I dont care if people ask politely for the favor of not discussing the previews for next episode. The question is that it was stated as their fucking constitutional right that you cant discuss previews or even mention them at all because their habit of not watching them is sacred.

I cant believe that they dont actually see the fundamental difference between those two. I guess that socialdemocracy neo-language and brainwashing made it that far.

[MFauli]

Bad comparison. Manga spoilers, and even some comparisons are explicitly banned by the rules.

If Gotwoot-rules said "jump out of any open window you come by" would you do it, too?

That´s what DarthEnder mentioned: Pointing at arbitrary rules does not make for a good argument. "Why is talking about manga spoilers bad? - Because rules". Okay. A proper argument would go as follows: "Why is talking about manga spoilers bad? - Because manga and anime are two inherently different media, with many, if not most people only following one of the two, therefore splitting anime-discussion from manga-discussion makes sense". That´s better than pointing at some rules, isn´t it.

[DarthEnderX]

We have some guys here that think that is cool to force other people to not discuss (or avoid it) about something from an actual episode (I dont give a fuck if its minute 1 or 24) because they dont like it, a selfish infatuation, and if you tell them that they are forcing that on you they even get mad an start relating you to some kind of aggression paralelisms.I don't understand why you think people who don't want to know about episode events before they happen are being selfish but people who do want that are somehow being altruistic or something?

Both sides are being equally selfish in that instance. Both sides are trying to force the other side to abide be their beliefs. Trying to paint one side as heroes there and the other as villains when they're both doing EXACTLY the same thing is just dumb.


Because previews can be intentionally misleading (the good ones are), so they're just as worthy of discussion.Ah, so it's okay to be spoiled then as long as the studio is shitty at making previews. Good to know. Very quantifiable that.


Stop hanging out with violently insane people.It's hyperbole. Nobody watches(watched) Breaking Bad previews, and nobody tolerated anyone around them discussing them in earshot either.


It's insanely irrational and egotistical to expect people in a discussion thread to fucking dance around spoilers just because you might get your feelings hurt.And I'm sorry if you care so little about the people you are so desperate to discuss a thing you both enjoy with that you don't care if you're making the experience less enjoyable for them in the process, because the 15 second clip at the end that has no relation to the actual episode you just watched simply cannon pass without comment.

It's insanely irrational and egotistical to insist that, in an discussion about things that happened in the current episode, that the preview(which is a collection of things that happen in the NEXT episode) has to be discussed as well.


This. I dont care if people ask politely for the favor of not discussing the previews for next episode. The question is that it was stated as their fucking constitutional right that you cant discuss previews or even mention them at all because their habit of not watching them is sacred.

I cant believe that they dont actually see the fundamental difference between those two. I guess that socialdemocracy neo-language and brainwashing made it that far.Episode previews in the constitution? What the fuck are you babbling about?

[Kraco]

If a thread has 6 regular posters and 5 of them never discussed anything in the previews (because they skipped them) and only one watched the whole episode, I reckon the thread wouldn't have much in the way of a preview discussion. But if half of the 6 watch the whole ep and mention the preview occasionally the same as they might mention any interesting detail in the ep, then they do it because it's fun and they enjoy watching the previews. This forum is all about entertainment and the anime (and manga, books, movies, games) threads are meant to grant additional entertainment after watching the episode (except the SAO thread, which was meant to relieve some stress accumulated during the ep). It would be kind of a pity to remove that extra entertainment.

Rules, traditions, and conventions are always compromises to a degree. Sometimes you are lucky and they suit you, sometimes you aren't.

[Edort4]

I don't understand why you think people who don't want to know about episode events before they happen are being selfish but people who do want that are somehow being altruistic or something?

Both sides are being equally selfish in that instance. Both sides are trying to force the other side to abide be their beliefs. Trying to paint one side as heroes there and the other as villains when they're both doing EXACTLY the same thing is just dumb.

I dont have enough mastery of the language to get into deeper explanation about this. I will just say that you are saying that the right to not know of some subjetive part is above the right of speech of something that its inside the episode that is being discussed. I cant explain how absurd the "right to not know of something inside the episode" sounds in my mind.

[DarthEnderX]

I dont have enough mastery of the language to get into deeper explanation about this.Alright, fair enough.

I just don't understand what "right to free speech" has to do with anything.

This is not a free speech environment. We have to abide by the rules the mods decide on here.

Technically, your constitutional right to free speech should mean you can talk about the manga in anime threads. But I don't see you getting up on a soapbox about that.

[Edort4]

But dont rules say you can talk about previews? Am I missing something? Rules are there to abide or not? Im getting confused.

I think the "no preview discussion team" want to change the rules because that thinking should be above the you can "discuss anything inside the episode" thinking team. If they are both equal and have to abid to the rules there is no place for any discussion. Same weight ideas = Status quo = no change.

@darth I doubt thats how rules are set nor in a private forum with owner and moderators nor in the real world. But call me naive. Im done for this topic.

[DarthEnderX]

But dont rules say you can talk about previews? Am I missing something? Rules are there to abide or not? Im getting confused.Yes. The point is, I don't like that rule. I want them to change it. So I make a thread so I can discuss changing it. People will read it. If they agree, they'll support it, if they don't, they'll argue against it. Mods read the arguments and decide if they want to change the rule or not.

That's how rules get set in the first place.

[Ryllharu]

The rest of us are fine with that rule. Really...it's only you.

[DarthEnderX]

The rest of us are fine with that rule. Really...it's only you.A. You apparently didn't read everyone in this thread

and B. I'm not psychic, so I wouldn't know that until making the thread and having a couple really huge pieces of shit respond to a discussion with "this is fucking stupid you stupid fucking retard". Cause you know, that's how they make arguments against things they disagree with.

[UChessmaster]

Random thought, the manga actually spoils next chapters events every now and then, so if you want the full experience you should see the previews. :P

[Ryllharu]

I'm not psychic, so I wouldn't know that until making the thread and having a couple really huge pieces of shit respond to a discussion with "this is fucking stupid you stupid fucking retard". Cause you know, that's how they make arguments against things they disagree with.
No one has called you a retard yet...except you yourself just now. I've called you a whiner, and since this is about in-episode previews being "spoilers" (can't stress this fact enough as it gets repeatedly drowned out), yes, you are one, for reasons previously detailed.

I guess this is how "rational" people act. They make a request, get denied by both admins, and then they throw a hissy fit until the rules get changed.

[DarthEnderX]

No one has called you a retard yet...except you yourself just now.Well, that makes calling us fucking stupid totally okay then.


They make a request, get denied by both adminsAnd they BOTH said I was free to continue discussing it, even though they wouldn't change their minds.

So I did.

If you don't like it, nothing is forcing you to keep reading.

[darkshadow]

And I'm sorry if you care so little about the people you are so desperate to discuss a thing you both enjoy with that you don't care if you're making the experience less enjoyable for them in the process, because the 15 second clip at the end that has no relation to the actual episode you just watched simply cannon pass without comment.


Dial down the snark, it's making you overreach; discussion thread means discussion of any and all content of which the thread was created for, and episode previews (I still can't believe this) are part of that content.



It's insanely irrational and egotistical to insist that, in an discussion about things that happened in the current episode, that the preview(which is a collection of things that happen in the NEXT episode) has to be discussed as well.


Even though you flatter me by mirroring my sentence usage, please don't put words in my mouth. I've never said a preview has to be discussed, just that it's insane to not want it to; you don't have the right to not know, only the right to not participate.


Well, that makes calling us fucking stupid totally okay then.

And they BOTH said I was free to continue discussing it, even though they wouldn't change their minds.

So I did.

If you don't like it, nothing is forcing you to keep reading.

Nobody had called you fucking stupid either, all this irrational discussion has got you hallucinating.

[DarthEnderX]

Dial down the snarkFunny coming from the first person in this thread to actually respond venomously to it.


episode previews (I still can't believe this) are part of that content.They really aren't. They're commercials for the next episode that happen to air right at the end of the current episode. They put them after the credits for a reason.


Nobody had called you fucking stupid either, all this irrational discussion has got you hallucinating.A simple Ctrl-F will show that you're wrong.

[Edort4]

Edited. Delete pls. Changed my mind.

[Ryllharu]

They really aren't. They're commercials for the next episode that happen to air right at the end of the current episode. They put them after the credits for a reason.

A simple Ctrl-F will show that you're wrong.
(A) I'm the only person to use the term "fucking stupid" and it clearly refers to the concept that an episode preview is a spoiler (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/22852-Spoiler-tag-debate?p=539954&viewfull=1#post539954) (comparing it to saying the OP/ED is a spoiler in that same way), not an individual. The reasoning, not a person. But hey, egotism. I called you a whiner only...which ya are.

(B) Previews are not always at the end of the credits. They're quite frequently in the middle of the ED, so they're most certainly not commercials that just "happen to air right after." They are part of the episode. I can't believe how many times we have to reiterate this.

edit:
Since you'll just refuse to believe me, some examples:
- Suisei no Gargantia
- Magi Season 1

[complich8]

Fuel for the fire: "Spoilers May Not Be That Bad" (http://www.npr.org/2013/08/02/208167256/spoiler-alert-spoilers-may-not-be-that-bad).

Maybe more emphasis on the journey, less on the destination?

(still not planning on implementing spoiler tags :p)

[DarthEnderX]

Fuel for the fire: "Spoilers May Not Be That Bad" (http://www.npr.org/2013/08/02/208167256/spoiler-alert-spoilers-may-not-be-that-bad).That's a lot of discussion for what is essentially a completely bullshit concept.

Bottom line, I've experienced things with spoilers, and without them. I've always enjoyed my experiences without spoilers more.

And the amount of increased enjoyment I've received watching something unspoiled exceeds the enjoyment I've ever received from discussing an episode preview.

They can try and psych 101 their way to saying that spoilers are somehow enhancing my experience about things, but I know my own feelings about things.

If being spoiled somehow enhances the way you experience something, that's great. You can be spoiled without also spoiling me. The reverse is not the case in this instance. By discussing it in the episode discussion, you're forcing your choice upon me. Taking my choice whether to be spoiled or not away from me. Whereas my decision to not be spoiled, in no way prevents you from spoiling yourself.

[Kraco]

You know, the anime studios and the TV stations depend on the viewers, that is, customers. They are professionals in the business. If previews were as catastrophic as you said, they wouldn't exist in the first place. They aren't meant to spoil, they are meant to make you look forward to the next episode, to be excited. Unfortunately especially in filler hell anime or poorly written ones the previews tend to be better than the actual episodes, but then again, nobody would complain about the previews in such shows.

[DarthEnderX]

If previews were as catastrophic as you said, they wouldn't exist in the first place.The point is that they are "catastrophic" for some people, and not others.

That's why they're after the credits. So people who want to watch them can, and for people who don't, it's REALLY easy for them to stop watching before the preview starts up. The viewer has a choice.

A choice that is apparently taken away from anyone that decides to participate in a GotWoot discussion thread. Avoiding the preview is easy in the episode. It's impossible on the forum if any person decides they don't want it to be possible.

So if I want to avoid being spoiled, my choice is no longer "watch the preview, or don't". Its, "be a part of the GotWoot forums, or don't".

And if the mods approve of that, maybe there's a reason why this place is half-dead(besides the obvious "Forum dedicated to a fansub group that no longer does fansubs")

EDIT: Hah, I just got the most entertaining rep comment for this post. :p

[shinta|hikari]

I'm pretty sure people who would discuss previews can be easily convinced to add a "From preview" warning text then whiting them out if you just ask nicely.

Worked for me at least.

[DarthEnderX]

I'm pretty sure people who would discuss previews can be easily convinced to add a "From preview" warning text then whiting them out if you just ask nicely.I think this thread has pretty much proven that there's no way in hell that's the case. In fact, some folks here have been such assholes about it I wouldn't put it past them to do the opposite out of spite.

I appreciate that you're willing to do that though.