Naruto Shippuuden Episode 342

[Artris]

[Horriblesubs] Naruto Shippuuden - 342 1080 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=501708) | 720 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=501707) | 480 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=501705)

Haven't seen it yet, but with a title like 'Spacetime Ninjutsu'... I'm hopeful.

[frog hermit]

i guess they translated it wrong when the titles first came out because its "Secret of the transportation technique/Ninjutsu"

anyway, i really liked this one. entertaining from beginning to end, good animation, and the long awaited reveal. Ok it wasn't officially said yet but its pretty clear at this point who Tobi is.

The way the reveal tied into the explanation of Tobi's phasing ninjutsu was perfect. and how it just left Kakashi quivering at the realization.

other than that, Tobi felt really.... beatable. Now im thinking infinite madara will be the end game.

[Buffalobiian]

Tobi was also supposed to be all white and gooey, right? Way to go Kakashi (2nd favourite ninja if Itachi is #1).

Still, I wonder how the first Kamui attack on the Gedou statue failed?

edit:hoh.. interesting.. I rewatched that part again, and when Kakashi was using kamui, Tobi physically dodged Naruto's attack instead of teleporting like he normally does. Either he did that to avoid "overlapping" his body with the Gedou statue in another dimension.. or it was the key to stopping Kamui somehow.

[kmkze04]

I think Tobi may have shifted his Kamui to negate Kakashi's at that point.

[Buffalobiian]

I think Tobi may have shifted his Kamui to negate Kakashi's at that point.

How does that work?

[Kraco]

Didn't Tobi simply bring back the part Kakashi sucked away? It's the same dimension, after all, and Tobi obviously has much better control over it than Kakashi ever dreamed about.

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, it's super obvious who Tobi is now(and I was SO shocked guys!).


Didn't Tobi simply bring back the part Kakashi sucked away? It's the same dimension, after all, and Tobi obviously has much better control over it than Kakashi ever dreamed about.In what way?

Tobi's powers all requires physical contact. The fact that Kakashi can suck things in from hundreds of feet away already makes him seem more powerful.

Seems like Obito's eyes both have similar, but not identical powers. One has range. The other doesn't, but can be used on yourself in various ways.

Not as different as, say, Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi. But certainly more diverse that Shusui's "exact same ability in both eyes".

At least since he doesn't have two Sharingan, he shouldn't be able to use Susano'o.


I'm curious. I wonder if, instead of implanting someone else's Mangekyo into yours to get an EMS, if you can take two MS from the same person to make one EMS?

Like if they defeat Tobi, can Kakashi use Tobi's MS to keep his from going blind?

If this really is the last arc though it's for more likely that most of these eyes are going to end up destroyed by the end of the arc. Either through overuse, or though Izanagi or something.

[Kraco]

Tobi's powers all requires physical contact.

Hmm... Yeah. A good point. I suppose the other eye might allow better control but requires physical control, whereas the other works from distance but doesn't allow Kakashi to pull off the fancy stuff like bringing back stuff from that other dimension nor transport himself (or somebody else) safely there and back.

[Buffalobiian]

A year or something ago, Tobi would have found some random's* arm in his safehouse. :p


* Deidara's.

[DarthEnderX]

And then a nail, and a missile. :p


I suppose the other eye might allow better control but requires physical control, whereas the other works from distance but doesn't allow Kakashi to pull off the fancy stuff like bringing back stuff from that other dimension nor transport himself (or somebody else) safely there and back.This actually makes me wonder if Obito's eyes aren't meant to work together like Sasuke's does.

Sasuke's left eye creates black flames. While his right eye controls them. Obito's could be the same. Where his right eye lets him control his space/time jutsu, while his left one allows him to use it at a distance. And if he actually had both of his eyes, he'd be able to do everything he does now, but from a distance.


Personally, I think Obito has the best MS powers so far. And no sissy genjutsu either.

[TNTxTNT]

If he only shifts the part of his body that overlaps with the enemies' attacks then why can't he attack with his right arm yet shift away the shoulder for instance? Then the whole plan with attacking him so he can't attack back fail since he can just shift the part being attacked and counter with the body parts that are still in the correct dimension.

[Buffalobiian]

If he only shifts the part of his body that overlaps with the enemies' attacks then why can't he attack with his right arm yet shift away the shoulder for instance? Then the whole plan with attacking him so he can't attack back fail since he can just shift the part being attacked and counter with the body parts that are still in the correct dimension.

I thought about that too, and I think it's automatic. His sharingan can do one of two things:

1) Suck in anything that his body touches
2) Suck in part of his body that is being touched

I'm under the impression that he can't do both at the same time. He's done that thing before where he sucks himself and sasuke into his eye. I can't remember, but did he do that at the same time, or did he do Sasuke first, then himself?

For me the bigger question is that if it's an MS, how can he use it so much without going blind?

[DarthEnderX]

For me the bigger question is that if it's an MS, how can he use it so much without going blind?That is, a good point. Kakashi is already losing his sight and he's only used Kamui like a half a dozen times. Sasuke was going blind after, like, 2 days of hard use.

Tobi uses it all the time, he should totally be blind.

Then again, he has all those Sharingan at home. And we know he used one to beat Konan. Maybe he has a technique to transfer the blindness from his real MS to one of his spare Sharingans.

[Kraco]

You mean when you create the EMS, you lose your original MS power and get what's in the new eyes? I thought it was the other way around, and Tobi just used one, random eye from his stockpile.

[Buffalobiian]

You mean when you create the EMS, you lose your original MS power and get what's in the new eyes? I thought it was the other way around, and Tobi just used one, random eye from his stockpile.

Hmm... actually I think you're right. Sasuke's Susano'o is still purple, and he sure as hell can't use Tsukiyomi.

Never mind my babble then.

[DarthEnderX]

You mean when you create the EMS, you lose your original MS power and get what's in the new eyes? I thought it was the other way around, and Tobi just used one, random eye from his stockpile.That was my assumption as well. He's good eye has the MS and the other eye is just a normal Sharingan. One that could be sacrificed for an Izanagi.

It just doesn't explain why he can use his MS power so much and still not be blind. Unless, like I said, he has a way to preserve his good eye by sacrificing the spares.


Hmm... actually I think you're right. Sasuke's Susano'o is still purple, and he sure as hell can't use Tsukiyomi.The logical thing would have been for the EMS to have the abilities of BOTH the sets of eyes used to create it. But so far, that doesn't seem to be the case. Or if it is, Sasuke simply hasn't used Tsykiyomi yet since he got the EMS.


Actually...this brings up another question for me.

If Tobi's MS power is a variant of the Kamui, how does he intend to cast a Tsukiyomi on the moon?

Or is Madara the one with the Tsukiyomi, and the goal is to actually make HIM the Ten Tails Jinchuuriki.

[NeoCybercoin]

I'm not sure if Sasuke has a genuine EMS. I mean Itachi transferred his techniques to him at the end of their death battle. Tobi himself said that Itachi had them put a trigger in Amaterasu the moment Sasuke saw Tobi. Plus his eyes always bleed when he uses them. If they were his own that shouldn't happen right? I mean even Kakashi has a MS that he obtained himself and he doesn't bleed through the eyes when he uses it.

[Kraco]

Nah. Sasuke is simply so emo he needs to shed some tears every now and then, even if they are made of blood.

Seriously, though, I think his capacity is so low he can't pull off powerful techniques for long without overexerting himself. When Kakashi taught him chidori, I got an impression Sasuke's raw potential wasn't overly impressive.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm not sure if Sasuke has a genuine EMS. I mean Itachi transferred his techniques to him at the end of their death battle. Tobi himself said that Itachi had them put a trigger in Amaterasu the moment Sasuke saw Tobi. Plus his eyes always bleed when he uses them. If they were his own that shouldn't happen right? I mean even Kakashi has a MS that he obtained himself and he doesn't bleed through the eyes when he uses it.

Itachi did transfer stuff to Sasuke, but since then Sasuke has had Itachi's eyes actually transplanted into him. That's supposed to give him EMS, and there's no reason to doubt that right now. He didn't bleed when he fought Kabuto, which was the first "real" battle he's been in since he took off his bandages.

As for Kakashi, I think that despite what he's said this far he actually uses his MS a lot more sparingly compared to the others. Sasuke was spamming his like crazy because that's all he had against the Kage and all.

[Kraco]

As for Kakashi, I think that despite what he's said this far he actually uses his MS a lot more sparingly compared to the others. Sasuke was spamming his like crazy because that's all he had against the Kage and all.

Kakashi isn't Uchiha. He will never be able to use sharingan like any random person from Uchiha could have with suitable training and motivation. Kakashi isn't thus comparable.

[Buffalobiian]

Kakashi isn't Uchiha. He will never be able to use sharingan like any random person from Uchiha could have with suitable training and motivation. Kakashi isn't thus comparable.
Are you saying that Kakashi is incapable of bleeding from his eye?

[DarthEnderX]

I'll say it.

It seems like bleeding from the eye is an Amaterasu-specific thing. As I don't think I've seen Tsukiyomi, Kamui or Kotoamatsukami cause it.


I'm not sure if Sasuke has a genuine EMS. I mean Itachi transferred his techniques to him at the end of their death battle. Tobi himself said that Itachi had them put a trigger in Amaterasu the moment Sasuke saw Tobi. Like Buff said, that all happened before. Since then, Sasuke overused his MS to the point of blindness fighting Danzo, and has actually implanted Itachi's eyes.

By everything that's been described to us, his eyes should be EMS now. They even look different (http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120405053526/naruto/images/1/11/Mangeky%C5%8D_Sharingan_Sasuke_%28Eternal%29.svg) than they did before the operation (http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110804172557/naruto/images/5/55/Mangeky%C5%8D_Sharingan_Sasuke.svg).


Kakashi isn't Uchiha. He will never be able to use sharingan like any random person from Uchiha could have with suitable training and motivation. Kakashi isn't thus comparable.The only advantage they've ever shown the Uchiha's use of the Sharingan over Kakashi's is that Kakashi uses a lot more chakra due him not having Uchiha blood.

They've never said he's been inferior in it's usage in any other way. And, given his reputation, he's probably better with it than a lot of them.

[Kraco]

The only advantage they've ever shown the Uchiha's use of the Sharingan over Kakashi's is that Kakashi uses a lot more chakra due him not having Uchiha blood.

They've never said he's been inferior in it's usage in any other way.

I'd say that's plenty inferior. Like comparing a semi-automatic rifle to a machine gun.

[DarthEnderX]

I suppose it is.

So the argument you're making is basically, "Kakashi isn't blind yet because he doesn't have enough chakra to use his MS often enough to actually go blind."

Fair enough.

[KrayZ33]

Tobi doesn't even use his advanced Sharingan version, he can do his stuff without using the MS

also

Itachi's MS isn't his own either, he got one eye from a friend (see flashback)
if I'm not mistaken, his own MS is that special illusion-jutsu

and I wonder why Tobi has the Rinnegan(?) if he is not really going to use it, or did he just grab it to get knowledge about the techniques he required

[DarthEnderX]

Tobi doesn't even use his advanced Sharingan version, he can do his stuff without using the MSDo you have any proof of that? They've never shown his Sharingan WHILE he's used his dimensional powers before.


Itachi's MS isn't his own either, he got one eye from a friend (see flashback)
if I'm not mistaken, his own MS is that special illusion-jutsuThe one he got in the flashback is the one he implanted in the crow that he stuck inside Naruto(notice how it looks nothing like Itachi's MS).

Itachi's MS is:
Right Eye: Amaterasu
Left Eye: Tsukiyomi
Both: Susano'o

Shisui's MS is:
Right Eye (which Danzo stole): Koto Amatsukami
Left Eye (which he gave to Itachi): Koto Amatsukami

And just to save time...

Sasuke's MS:
Right Eye: Inferno Style - Flame Control
Left Eye: Amaterasu
Both: Susano'o

Ubito's MS:
Right Eye (being used by Tobi): Dimensional-jutsu that's slightly different than Kamui.
Left Eye (given to Kakashi): Kamui

Madara's MS:
Right Eye: ?
Left Eye: ?
Both: Susano'o


and I wonder why Tobi has the Rinnegan(?) if he is not really going to use it, or did he just grab it to get knowledge about the techniques he requiredHe did use it, to control his 6 Pains. And presumably the Rinnegan is also what allowed him to summon and control the statue.

But you're right, he's wasting a lot of it's powers. He's not using the Almighty Push, or the Jutsu absorbtion or any of the other shit it does.

Kakashi gave the excuse before that channeling the tailed beast energy to his Pains must have been using too much concentration for them to use the other Rinnegan powers, but now that they're gone, there's no reason he shouldn't be using the Rinnegan powers himself.

[Kraco]

He's facing pretty tough opponents, so maybe he's sticking to what he knows the best, hesitant to rely on something he acquired very recently.

[DarthEnderX]

Maybe.

Still, you'd think Almighty Push would be pretty fucking awesome for him given that he still has his own MS to fall back on while it recharges.

[Buffalobiian]

Maybe.

Still, you'd think Almighty Push would be pretty fucking awesome for him given that he still has his own MS to fall back on while it recharges.

He's trying to absorb people though. That doesn't go well with pushing.

[DarthEnderX]

The other possibility for why he's not using the powers might be because he's not a Senju descendant. So using the Rinnegan powers eats up his chakra way to fast just like the Sharingan does for Kakashi.

[KrayZ33]

Do you have any proof of that? They've never shown his Sharingan WHILE he's used his dimensional powers before.


~12:10

can't get any more obvious than this

[DarthEnderX]

~12:10

can't get any more obvious than thisUm...wtf are you talking about?

His eye isn't visable at all while he's sucking things in in that scene. All you can see is an empty black hole in his mask.

It's exactly the same in the manga (http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/596/11).

[KrayZ33]

......

watch 12:10
then read what kakashi is saying @ 14:00 and try to connect 2 dots.

[DarthEnderX]

I see what you're saying.

I'll concede that he probably doesn't need to activate his MS to use the phasing aspect of his power. But the sucking things in and out thing is almost certainly his MS at work, just like it is with Kakashi.

[UChessmaster]

I see what you're saying.

I'll concede that he probably doesn't need to activate his MS to use the phasing aspect of his power. But the sucking things in and out thing is almost certainly his MS at work, just like it is with Kakashi.

Didn't they clarified it's all just one technique, how can one part require ms but not the other?

[DarthEnderX]

That's what I thought, but they do show things passing through him while only his regular Sharingan is active.

That might just be the animators fucking up though, as I haven't seen any of that in the manga. They always just show dark holes in the mask when he's passing through stuff in the manga.

EDIT: Well, that was a poorly timed statement, since this week's episode shows that he obviously CAN phase through things with his normal Sharingan, since that's how he got into Madara's cavern.