Log Horizon

[MFauli]

1588


The story begins when 30,000 Japanese gamers are trapped in the fantasy online game world Elder Tale. What was once a sword-and-sorcery world is now the real world. The main lead Shiroe attempts to survive with his old friend Naotsugu and the beautiful assassin Akatsuki.

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Horrible Subs - Episode 01 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=479916)

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no idea why there is no thread for this already. its basically an anime in the vein of Sword Art Online. Worse animation, but still nice art. Interesting choice for lead character: Instead of a being your typical sword fighter, he´s a support class/strategist.

First three episodes were interesting and fun enough, though I hope we´ll get a plot of real importance soon. Right now it´s like a rather shallow fantasy-story with the usual quirks of virtual reality.

Will keep watching.

[David75]

It's your average adventure anime, with average art and story... But absolutely no suspense/intensity or anything that gives a sense of insecurity.
It's been clear from ep 1 they were no risks in PKs, bar losing some stuff and come back to Akiba.
At least SAO PKs were followed by IRL deaths.
But maybe they'll do something about that weakness soon.

Now that I wrote all of that, it was still pleasant to watch and spend some time. Some kind of MMORPG slice of life.

[MFauli]

there HAS to be some sort of significant downside to being trapped inside this game. So it´s only a matter of time before the real plot begins. Though they kinda touch upon it when they talked about the lack of taste in food, and how there´s not much to do besides fighting.

Also, while it seems that you return to the city when youre killed ... I have a feeling that that´s not entirely true. Until one of the main characters "dies" and is revived without repercussions, Im gonna assume that it´s not a 100% revival.

And still, the main goal could be to escape the game.

[Kraco]

I wouldn't be watching this show if Akatsuki wasn't there. Honestly. I have never seen a more adorable assassin.


It's been clear from ep 1 they were no risks in PKs, bar losing some stuff and come back to Akiba.
At least SAO PKs were followed by IRL deaths.

Maybe that difference is what made them animate this. There was so much hype around SAO, despite it ending up being a lousy show, that even the Japanese might have wanted to avoid something totally similar, even if the story wasn't written by a 13 years old like SAO's.

[David75]

Yes returning to real life could be enough of a drive, yet they are all at max level in their class and among the top of the crop with instinctive team strategy. I would not be surprised they are in the shut-in category. So except for food taste, they seem to be happy enough to live the game they like. At least for now.
One of the pressing matter would be their real body needs, water being the main problem. 3 to 4 days without water starts being a real problem, even in a dream-like state. A week and more, and then serious problems should arise.
I know they can always use the time distortion plot device, like 1 second IRL is an hour in game, but that only gives like a year or so...

Fighting boredom and finding a way out could do the trick if well exploited.

[MasterOfMoogles]

This show is just weird.
Nobody really expresses concern about their situation. There are no goals, no tension, not really any conflicts aside from super cliche villains who are easily dispatched by our heroes.
At the same time, there are some interesting ideas. Travel is the biggest annoyance in their world. What are people going to do without any goals or anything to live for?
Hopefully this is going somewhere...

Nakata Jouji (Alucard, Kotomine Kirei, and Nyanta in this) ending his sentences with Nya is pretty hilarious.

[shinta|hikari]

I wouldn't be watching this show if Akatsuki wasn't there. Honestly. I have never seen a more adorable assassin.

This. Loli assassins (of legal age) must be some kind of miracle.

[Archangel]

The show is still great but this "sweatshop exp pot" plot device is fucking terrible

[shinta|hikari]

Shiroe finally gets serious.

I don't mind the exp pot idea. It makes sense because of the game mechanic they explained, and fits the overall game reality hybrid world of the show.

[Ryllharu]

I'm with Arch. The mechanics of it make sense, a game with that high of a level cap would obviously allow newbies to boost xp, a badly designed game would allow them to be tradable.

It's the fact that they literally have them doing the oliver twist sweatshop cliché that makes it terrible. They mentioned earlier that the sister sews all day, so her tailoring sub-class is probably leveling as quickly as Serara's maid skills. The problem is that so long as they're below Level 30, they just get a potion once per day. If they have all these newbies working at day with production sub-classes, shouldn't they be showing the fruits of their labor to use the sweatshop theme? When they showed them handing over the potions a couple episode ago, before we knew what they were, I figured they were forcing them to brew them with a job skill.

There's no need for the whole sweatshop BS when they could accomplish the same simply having the newbies lie around all day bored out of their minds, or hell, locked up in cages.

Furthermore...why are they all kids? Newbies would be adult size/age too.

The second problem I had with this episode is Maryell getting all weepy when he revealed he had created his own guild. Talk about misplaced emotional impact. Maybe there is some super serious trauma that she knows about that the audience doesn't, but it just seemed silly.

[MFauli]

at least we have arrived at the first major plot point: Shiroe founding his own guild, the title-giving Log Horizon.

To me, the most important thing now is what he´s going to do. If all he plans on doing is to save those low level-players, then, well. That´s nice, I guess, but it doesnt really mean anything for the overarching problem: Them being trapped inside a virtual world!

Also, I agree that it is odd to have almost no adult players in this game. Guess that´s the old "anybody over 20 is an old man"-syndrome so many anime and jrpgs suffer from.

gotta say, this show has one of the coolest openings, though, both music and visuals.

[shinta|hikari]

I think they have shown plenty of adult looking players so far. Heck, the cat sounds 60 years old.

Ryll was referring to players under level 30.

[Kraco]

To me, the most important thing now is what he´s going to do. If all he plans on doing is to save those low level-players, then, well. That´s nice, I guess, but it doesnt really mean anything for the overarching problem: Them being trapped inside a virtual world!

What's that? I thought the big thing Shiroe's going to do now is to get rich by opening his own restaurant empire since nobody else has apparently invested in the cooking skills (I guess no surprise considering it's an adventure/action game) and thus doesn't know there's tasty food to be had instead of the tasteless auto-created. I reckon he needs the newbies to man the kitchens and serving staff. It's all out of the frying pan, into the fire for the kids. Although I bet Shiroe will play his cards wiser and appear all benevolent.

Seriously, though, while I also thought the xp potion sweatshop plot is kind of goofy, I think it's not so bad considering this story has certainly chosen the difficult path with no death. The replacement theme seems to be melancholy and slowly building depression since they don't even know how to theoretically end it all, like in SAO. We have a bunch of high level players racing for the rest of the new 10 levels, not having anything better to do. The very low level players are getting bullied and have even less hope for anything immediate. Unless they are blessed with a very nice guild.

[MFauli]

im kinda waiting for whatever cruel revelation. something like "you will die for real if you die in-game 10 times" or something like that. So suddenly, being pk-ed matters.

Melancholy replacing death as the big downside here is something I though about, too. But really, it doesn´t come close to death. It´s bad for those who are trapped, but for me, the audience, I see some lucky kids "trapped" inside an awesome medieval fantasy-world, fighting with swords and magic, not having to fear death, and now even getting to taste good food. If we can get some confirmation that PvP-sex is possible, too, then ... what´s not to like?

No, clearly, death needs to be introduced as a real danger. It only remains to be seen how that will happen.

[Ryllharu]

It is a much braver and challenging choice to stick with no death. They can explore the consequences of having no consequences.

It's one thing to have a scenario where people get so depressed they eventually start killing themselves (SAO). In Log Horizon, there's no escape. You can't quit, you can't die, you just take mental and emotional damage over and over and over and over.

They also get to look a few deeper phenomenon like harassment, social dynamics, and hopelessness. It just goes to show how shallow and cheap SAO was.

[David75]

I think I get your point. The new rules of that world can have it turn to a slow and painful depressing Hell. Or someone like Shiroe can start building an utopia with what's available. And it seems that with friendship, hard work, lots of good feelings, you might be able to build some kind of Paradise. And my guess is that it's the root of the story, how you can build that paradise when you obviously have parties that will try to prevent you from doing that, or with objectives that are not compatible.

[MFauli]

but without death and an escape-plot, this would turn into a very generic fantasy-anime, with magic being rooted in computer-stuff instead of, well duh, a mana tree or whatevs. with the added bore-bringer of no-death.

i can see it being a challenge for Shiroe and co to turn it into something good, but i cant imagine it to be exiting to watch it happen.

[Kraco]

Episode 7 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=493587)



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I'm slightly confused. A couple of eps ago Shiroe seemed to stress how necessary the exact, vast amount of money is, but now he indicated it's not the goal of the restaurant business. He's now apparently interested in real estate. How is that going to make him money, or was he just, somewhat greedily, dreaming of grand headquarters? I guess if he bought the whole town, he could become a king and set fair laws, but where's the money going to come from? Apparently four months is too long a time for becoming a millionaire... Though all the other smart people in town would need to be idiots not to figure out the "secret" behind their food, so competition shouldn't be out of question, provided anybody would be willing to sacrifice more aggressive skills to level up cooking skills.

In any case, these past eps have had too little Akatsuki.

[Ryllharu]

I believe he wants 5 million because it is the price of a particular building. All of the buildings are for sale, but all are extremely expensive, but 5 million seems excessive even for that. It is worth noting that he was looking at the guild hall itself in the last shot.

I think he is after that. If he owns the guildhouse, he can throw out the guilds he doesn't like, and charge a modest rent to the others (and will likely use that to pay back Crescent Moon Alliance and the other guilds that help him raise the capital, with interest).

4 months is too long because he needs to save those kids now, and drive out any other malcontents from Shinjuku before the malicious momentum of abusing others for your own benefits turns Shinjuku into the northern city.

I'll take Marielle and Henrietta/Umeko interaction heavy episodes with a bit of Akatsuki in a waitress outfit quivering in fear, trapped in a guildhouse, in exchange for a solid Akatsuki episode.

[Kraco]

Right. Even though they said all are for sale, the guild hall being for sale is so ridiculous (due to its fundamental and complicated functions in the game world), to be honest, that it escaped my notice entirely, despite the fact he indeed was staring at it meaningfully. Still, it'll be interesting to see how he plans to increase the money flow now with the initial funds the first days of food vending brought. I hope Akatsuki will play some role, and her entire job isn't just to passively spy on the xp bottle guilds for no profitable reason.

[Xelbair]

I'm pretty sure that he wants to buy the whole guild building.

[MFauli]

maybe he plans to make good food available for free after some time, or use it as an example of what joys people get to experience in a peaceful, friendly world, contrary to the current mistrust everyone seems to have against each other. Then he´s like "if you want this game to be fun, give us your money and we´ll buy the guild building to set proper rules in place". Well, worded better and more convincing than that lol.
Though I´ll admit that it sounds awefully naive to expect other people to give up their money just like that.

Maid Akatsuki was nice, though the way Henrietta described the zone rules inside her guild rooms, it made me think "oooookay, so this is where guild members get to rape visitors" :|

[Archangel]

I'm pretty sure that he wants to buy the whole guild building.
I'm seconding this, that's what the last shot seemed to be telling us.

[Kraco]

Episode 8 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=495758)




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This was a pretty damn crafty plan. While the front of a restaurant business actually was made possible by the pure coincidence of the catman having been investing in the cooking skill and having happened to try to make food the realistic way, not using in game recipes and shortcuts, it can't be said Shiroe wouldn't have had brilliant wits to put it to use in the most grandiose manner imaginable. I do have a slight feeling the merchant guilds did agree with too few questions asked, but it wasn't totally out there either. There were three of them present, none of them wanting to lose to the other two. So, Shiroe was counting correctly on their greed getting the better of them.

I wonder what kind of faces the guild leaders will make when they realise their money was used to buy the guild building, which they are also dependent on. Still, an investment is an investment. I doubt Shiroe will treat them badly afterwards. It wouldn't make sense to try to topple an evil reign to replace it with another.

I'd like to watch Akatsuki getting fondled by Shiroe rather than the treasurer.

[shinta|hikari]

I'd like to watch Akatsuki getting fondled by me rather than the treasurer.

Indeed..

[Archangel]

Megane adjusting simulator 2013

[Kraco]

Episode 9 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=498098)





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Last time I said I want to see the faces of the merchants when they hear where their money went, they took it pretty graciously all things considered, but now I want to see the face of that one smug combat guild leader who left the council before hearing the whole story. As much as the others feel they are at Shiroe's mercy, they still have his ear and probably can count on having their votes matter, but this one dude... I wonder how he's going to explain it to his guild. He basically left his guild members at the mercy of their competitors. I doubt there's going to be much corruption or anything like that for the time being, but the prestige lost alone is pretty funny. If Shiroe intends to place a whole bunch of laws upon the town, the douche lost even his chance to affect those. I foresee his guild losing members, the others gaining.

Well played, Shiroe, all in all. But I really hope he will soon take his gang and seek an adventure or two with badass fights. All these politics and talks are getting heavy and leave poor Akatsuki no chance to shine (I don't count forced cosplay as shining... Well, I do, but I also want different kind of shine).

[MFauli]

rather than badass fights, I want a true danger/menace to appear. We already discussed how the lack of death changes things, but it also makes it boring. If it really stays like that, death being a non-issue, then the only bigger danger could be an anti-Shiroe, who wants to ruin Shiroe´s plans. Who wants to ruin this virtual world. Which, ultimately, would be boring, too, since with everyone keeping being to resurrect, it´d be an endles fight for like 70 years, until their real world-bodies die. Or it´d be some boring rally of buying up all buildings in this world to gain control over various parts.

meh

[shinta|hikari]

I think the main issue is why they are stuck there, and how tn get out. I wish that plot point advances a little.

[Ryllharu]

Has anyone else here considered the idea that they're not stuck? This isn't a scenario like sword art where they are all told they are prisoners and given a quick news feed to corroborate it. Maybe if years go by and we see one of them freeze or go AFK meaning their real body died...but who is to say their real bodies are even still attached?

Maybe they were just downloaded into the game, and their real bodies are carrying on with their normal lives.

This kind of information blackout leads to those other potential scenarios. I personally find the focus not being how they escape, but how they are gently forcing people to make a decent life for themselves within the game to be more interesting. They're establishing civilization. Once Akibahara is settled, we'll probably see a war with one of the other cities.

[shinta|hikari]

That is indeed interesting but it has not been developed yet. Some events that foreshadow that would make the reveal
much better.

[Kraco]

How do we know they actually aren't in the game physically already? It seems like they don't exactly feel that different, and the only manifested differences we have seen are the immortality (with no spilled guts) and the UI, also the skills if you want to count them. Has it been addressed if they need to eat or if they are just forcing themselves to eat? If I understood correctly from the first episodes, it wasn't any fancy VR game in the first place like SAO. It was a regular picture on screen, audio from speakers, and control with mouse+keyboard kind of game. So, their bodies might not be left behind anywhere.

I guess that's the more unlikely alternative, but I can't recall any evidence against it either. It's an information blackout like Ryll said, after all.

[MFauli]

so akihabara is established for now.

two things on my mind right now:

- I hope we´ll see a true romance between Shiroe and Akatsuki. I kinda have the fear that they´re already caught up in a typical friend-relationship, though.

- Do we know what happens to People of the Land when they´re killed? Do they respawn?

Also, not sure what I think about the PotL having real feelings and such now. It paints all the players as extremely shallow not to have noticed this before, other than Shiroe and cowtits-girl. I guess they´re all of the boring kind of mmorpg-players, only playing to do silly grinding and fighting, and not playing for immersion and escapism :P

[Kraco]

Episode 11 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=502329)





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The obligatory beach episode came and went, but we never saw Akatsuki in a swimsuit. But then again, it's Akatsuki we are talking about, so there wouldn't really be anything to see there with her undeveloped child's body, so it's okay she skipped it.

Anyway, this is a getting interesting with the NPCs. I didn't really see this coming when the show launched, even though this is obviously something that makes this story worth animating so soon after the (largely undeserved) SAO hype. After all, this really set this show apart from the likes of SAO, which was all about the players. I doubt this Elder Tales had too exceptional NPCs when it was still a regular game, so this must be the biggest difference since the apocalypse.

If you look at this from the perspective of crafting (or cooking or any other physical activity made possible by the RL likeness of this game), which was the focus a while ago, then Shiroe should also realise sooner or later that the quest items granted by NPCs might not be coming out of nowhere either, anymore. It would make sense they would now be crafted by the NPCs similarly PCs can craft stuff from basic material, should they possess the technical skill and also the wits to do it (after all, you must know the theory of a steam engine to build one, in addition to being able to work iron and other metals).

[shinta|hikari]

But then again, it's Akatsuki we are talking about, so there wouldn't really be anything to see there with her undeveloped child's body, so it's okay she skipped it.

Are you insane?

[MFauli]

somehow i have really hard time accepting that those npcs are now conscious beings. we went from being trapped inside a game to real A.I.s.

[David75]

I'm wondering what the menacing shadow was.

[Archangel]

I'm wondering what the menacing shadow was.
Rare spawn maybe? Or an event.

[Kraco]

I'm wondering what the menacing shadow was.

Maybe it was finally something related to the latest expansion, something which allows people to level up. And above all something that will bring action back to the show.


Are you insane?

Nah. I'm just trying to cope with the fact she missed it and tell myself it didn't matter.

[Buffalobiian]

I really don't care about seeing any PCs escaping from the world. Trying to live inside it is so much more entertaining. And if you can give real people a digital life, I'd say you can give digital AIs a real consciousness simply because the creator must be talented.


How do we know they actually aren't in the game physically already?

Like a certain anime? The first episode had Akatsuki readjusting her height. It's also hard for me to comprehend death-revive-teleports as being a physical phenomenon, so I think this is still all virtual.

[Kraco]

I really don't care about seeing any PCs escaping from the world. Trying to live inside it is so much more entertaining. And if you can give real people a digital life, I'd say you can give digital AIs a real consciousness simply because the creator must be talented.

Like a certain anime? The first episode had Akatsuki readjusting her height. It's also hard for me to comprehend death-revive-teleports as being a physical phenomenon, so I think this is still all virtual.

They might all be NPCs, as a matter of fact, like Ryll said up there. Which wouldn't be so different from what I said, only copying, not moving. That would explain everything perfectly, including the fact we haven't seen anybody disappear, which happened in SAO a lot. In the end if this game had tens of thousands of players all over the world, or is it that much in Japan alone and more abroad, there's no way great many wouldn't be unplugged by force in RL or simply die in RL. But if they are all digital clones of the players' consciousnesses, then it's natural they don't leave the game ever, no matter what happens in the game or outside of the game, provided the servers keep running. There's also no way they could realise that by observation alone. Somebody would need to think about it abstractly and accept it without proof, like a religion. It could be quite a mental shock to great many, though.

[Buffalobiian]

When I said "Like a certain anime", I was meant to provide the following link (http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120728230661/doblaje/es/images/2/29/Hxh_gifinal.jpg).


They might all be NPCs, as a matter of fact, like Ryll said up there. Which wouldn't be so different from what I said, only copying, not moving.

When you mean "physically", Kraco.. do you mean physically plugged in, or physically being there? The latter was what I thought you meant, but your latest comment suggests the former.

[Kraco]

When I said "Like a certain anime", I was meant to provide the following link (http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120728230661/doblaje/es/images/2/29/Hxh_gifinal.jpg).



When you mean "physically", Kraco.. do you mean physically plugged in, or physically being there? The latter was what I thought you meant, but your latest comment suggests the former.

Nah, at first I was thinking it a possibility they were indeed physically transported into the game world, or rather a world that was like the game world would be in concrete 3D. But after Ryll's post, I reckon it more likely only their minds were copied there. If indeed anything was copied/moved. It would be more plausible than SAO's setting, especially when this game has many times more players from all over the world. There's simply no way they could be kept alive as coma patient equivalents in such numbers.

[Kraco]

Episode 12 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=504501)






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The NPCs are certainly like regular people already. I wonder how long it'll take before some player starts to date an NPC girl/guy. Who knows what Krusty might have in mind, as well, by approaching the princess. While Shiroe managed to bring some order to the town, I still find it really nice in the end all the players are individuals and especially the more powerful and ambitious ones might be far more interested in playing their own little games than play their role in Shiroe scheme. Being so crafty, I'm sure Shiroe realises that as well and never thought it would be smooth sailing. I hope he's satisfied with his own role and situation, though, since the round table folks would naturally judge him more severely than anybody else, should he do something brash. Akatsuki finally getting a job worth her skills was long overdue and very welcome.

Other than that, it seems regular skeletons aren't any pushovers in this game. Some many players above level 20 and a bunch of bonemen pushed them back. Not that the group composition would have been too good with only one forward and a whole bunch of support, but still.

I hope the game allowed players to play villanous roles and we will get such a character to make an appearance. I'm not bored with the politics and other such world building and sheer exposition, but a competent villain does always good for a fantasy story.

[MFauli]

npcs die for good when theyre killed, right? that has to play some major role in the near future, since it gives even more of an unfair power advantage in favor of the adventurerers. theyre practically gods.

[Ryllharu]

npcs die for good when theyre killed, right? that has to play some major role in the near future, since it gives even more of an unfair power advantage in favor of the adventurerers. theyre practically gods.My guess based on the conversation between the two NPCs this episode is that if NPCs are treated like trash by the adventurers, they will simply stop giving quests entirely to a region. Mostly because they'll simply flee. If they aren't there to run the stores, city bank, and other function, the player city will become a dead zone where players can't accomplish much of anything. I expect this has already happened to the northern city, where they willingly killed off many of the NPCs and drove away the rest.

Shiroe's narration and the conversations between Henrietta and Maryell about the magic bag was quite telling as well. Newer players can't get any of the items that the high level players earned from the story mode of the original game. With the expansion, there are likely even better quest rewards now. Experience is probably also increased greatly from quests, like in any MMO.

It is in their best interest to continue to gain the favor of The People of the Land. You can't simply talk to them anymore and just instantly get the quest, you have to convince them now.

[shinta|hikari]

Finally some romantic development. Akatsuki's jealousy was so cute to watch. Shiroe's tantrum not so much, but better than being an android.

Watching the "newbies" pissed me off. They are at level 20+, surely those stupid ass mistakes and pig headedness should already be over with. They are missing the basics of the basics in group battle, which is simply stupid and unrealistic. Ignoring the miko is irritating, but the miko not asserting herself even more so. If she just said that she inherited Shiroe's knowledge, everything would have gone much better.

[KrayZ33]

the newbs are kids and lvl 20 while the highest level is 90 (or now 95)

in most mmo's thats the first time people visit a dungeon
and dungeon groups on that level are most of the time nothing more than 4dps+1 healer setups, because tanks don't make much of a difference in lower levels

so not really unrealistic in my book

[MFauli]

man, imagine if this anime was more like those real mmorpgs. there´s a tv-spot running on german tv for ... everquest 2, I think, which promotes "start the game with a level 85 character!" Yeah, great, like it doesn´t defeat the whole purpose of the game :|

[Xelbair]

4dps+heal and no tank... i dunno what kind of mmos were you playing sir.

[Ryllharu]

Better than one front row attacker (also a tank), a glass cannon, and three support characters.

You don't need a restorative healer in a well-balanced, class-based MMO. If people are saying they won't do missions/quests without a pure healer, they're a bad player. The Miko would be more than enough if everyone plays smart. Serara should be using her attacks too, since her class is supposedly the most versatile healer/attacker. If she's focusing on healing, someone in the attacker group are being idiots. Which is exactly what we saw.

They have a seriously bad team considering they're not using strategy and currently have no leader. I'd wager Shiroe's advice for each class would make them a good team, but whatsherface is just too timid to take the leadership role. She should be, since she can stand back and assess the situation much better than anyone on the team except for the bard.

[Archangel]

4dps+heal and no tank... i dunno what kind of mmos were you playing sir.
Samurais can probably spec into offtank, they just have a lot more trouble holding onto aggro

[KrayZ33]

4dps+heal and no tank... i dunno what kind of mmos were you playing sir.

either read the whole sentence or don't read at all
did you try out swtor? did you try out tera? did you try out WoW? did you try out ff14?

yes? no?
no need for tanks early on - you can't even consider them "tanks" during that phase of the game, they lack skills and defence stats and enemies + bosses lack the punch to kill you in 1-2 blows.

[shinta|hikari]

I played Tera and Bastion of Lok is a level 20-24 dungeon, and if everyone is on the lower end of this level range with undeveloped playing skills, a tank is necessary.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 13 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=506527)


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Crusty's "evilness" is way more fun to watch than Shiroe's, mainly because they are mostly interaction-based and we can see him blatantly lying. I do remember seeing the princess in the OP now, highly suggesting that she'll join the adventurers. Crusty can also make it appear as if she's his diplomatic hostage!

[Ryllharu]

I do remember seeing the princess in the OP now, highly suggesting that she'll join the adventurers. Crusty can also make it appear as if she's his diplomatic hostage!

This episode did raise the idea that People of the Land can become adventurers, though that does remain to be seen. Crusty is implying that she can end her boredom by joining them (and indeed become a hostage), though it isn't clear if she will be raised to immortal status like the players are, or if People of the Land become "Hardcore Mode" Adventurers, without the chance to resurrect.

Perhaps the next episode will shed light on this concept.

If true, I think it increases the chances that the players aren't trapped in this world, but are copies of the player personas and live here permanently. If People of the Land can't convert to Level 1 adventurers (hardcore or not), then...I guess that doesn't mean anything either way.

[Kraco]

Was the mage who appeared an NPC or a PC? His demeanor kind of reminded me of PCs, not to mention the fact he just suddenly appeared out of nowhere to confront players (perhaps Shiroe specifically) at a place where they don't normally hang around and thus wouldn't necessarily be the most prominent place for random quests, even if the nobles might have some of their own to give. Though I suppose with the recent changes in the people of the land, he might be an NPC as well, seeking help from adventurers. I'd prefer a PC, however, one who has studied the world more than our regular main cast.

Interesting development in any case. I really enjoyed every moment of Crusty's interaction with the princess. I thought Crusty isn't such an interesting character, being one of the 90+ level chasers, but he's pretty funny in his own way and handles the princess exactly like a player in an excessively developed game world might. Being so passive, the princess is also remarkably entertaining in Crusty's company.

[David75]

I do not think she can become an adventurer and risk her life. Even for a NPC, her stats are those of a useless princess combat wise.
BUT
She's an incredible asset.
She would be extremely useful for the round table, as an ambassador. And living in Akiba, she clearly would change her lifestyle and have her own adventures.
It's medieval international relations 101, share princesses beetween countries/factions as show of goodwill and to try and prevent any future wars. Not that it worked that much in history, but at least they tried :D

Other than that, I admitt I had nice grins and laughs in the Crusty vs Princess dialogues.

[MFauli]

If npcs could turn into adventurers, it leaves the question if pcs can turn into "npcs". Either way, mixing up with people of the land, like hypothetically princess lenessia joining the adventurers, creates a whole new dynamic. Suddenly you have to be super careful since some of your party members are not immortal anymore.

Regarding our overarching topic about the status of the adventurers´ real bodies, I hope we get an insightful episode specifically dedicated to that soon. I don´t really care what the revelation from that might be, I just want to know what´s up, especially if we´re in for a scenario where the story is not about escaping the virtual world, but about making a life within it.

[NeoCybercoin]

Maybe the only way for a NPC to become a Adventurer is by passing over those privileges that adventurers have. But then again it would mean for a adventurer that he'd have to give up his status as an adventurer and become an NPC?

[shinta|hikari]

Why isn't anyone talking about Akatsuki?

Her attempt to learn and practice dancing made me moemelt. I think it is pretty clear that Akatsuki is in love with Shiroe, and that if she actually gave a real push, Shiroe would fall easily (to her legal loli ultimate appeal!!!).

I don't think there will be any NPC to PC transfers. I think this episode just showed that NPCs in this show are intelligent beings. The princess made me LOL so much from her reactions. She is so unique as a court princess that I think an entire show can be devoted to her and Crusty (WTF is that name. It does not match his personality or appearance at all).

[David75]

Truth behind the adventurers real bodies:
For some reason they are in a stasis and the game was adapted as to preserve their brain functions during that stasis.
It can be a local disaster, some interstellar travel or anything needing a stasis of some kind.
But it does not really matter anymore, does it?

[MFauli]

Another possible outcome: Shiroe´s real body wakes up. "Ugh, it´s that late already?" Looks up the date. "Oh, finally, the new Sword Art Online-game is released! Gotta go fast!". And thus, Shiroe finished dreaming of a secure version of SAO and proceeded to waste his time staring at Asuna´s tits. The end.

@Akatsuki: I have no interest in her for as long as she´s so hesitant towards Shiroe. We got it, she likes him. Now stop blushing everytime something happens, and instead wall up to him, confess, or better, just kiss him. And then become a proper couple, yada yada.

[Kraco]

Why isn't anyone talking about Akatsuki?


@Akatsuki: I have no interest in her for as long as she´s so hesitant towards Shiroe. We got it, she likes him. Now stop blushing everytime something happens, and instead wall up to him, confess, or better, just kiss him. And then become a proper couple, yada yada.

Yeah, as much as I like Akatsuki and call this show Akatsuki Horizon, the truth is that her case kind of clashes with the rest of the story, in some ways. This series is more like Maoyuu Maou Yuusha, Spice and Wolf, etc than something overly light in the depth department like SAO, for example. The sheer lack of fighting and on the other hand the emphasis on the importance of tactics when the little fighting does happen also speaks for it. Instead we have psychology, economics, diplomacy, politics, and other such seinen stuff.

Considering all that, I find the immature relationship between Shiroe and Akatsuki a bit out of place. Perhaps Shiroe is held back by Akatsuki's childish appearance, rendering him passive. Akatsuki, however, naturally herself knows she's not some underage kid but just a naturally petite adult. If she's truly interested in Shiroe, she should help him get over his restraints (assuming he doesn't only like big boobs). It's not like there wouldn't be such adults, especially women, in this world, and many of them get happily married.

[MFauli]

btw. shinta, if you cant find a hot picture of neferpitou, id also take a sig with some hot akatsuki-picture. just to make you happy :P

[Ryllharu]

Also recognize that Shiroe has known Akatsuki for a considerable length of time as a man, then finds out she's a loli, then finds out they are the same age and actually still is a loli. The number of shocks is bound to make him a bit standoffish.

Compounding that is that he is a little put off by her hardcore ninja roleplay and mildly creepy devotion to him.

Then add on that he is very likely deeply in love with the monk leader of Debauchery Tea Party, before she either left the game to get married herself, he found out she is a middle schooler or she's an old lady like Marielle and Henrietta, she quit the game, or betrayed them somehow (only if she is still in the game, maybe rolling a new character to get away from them), etc.

If Akatsuki and Shiroe get together, it's not going to be for a long time.


------------

Also, I forgot Marielle was an elf until this episode when you could actually see her ears.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 14 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=508381)

----------------------------------












World magic shouldn't be something that an in-game character is able to do. It's just a theory made up by the mage to explain the actions of game-changing phenomenon that happened externally.

The memory degrading thing darkens things up a bit, but like Shiroe said, no one's made a big deal of it so far so it may not amount to anything in the end. More importantly though, it supports the idea that the players are in fact some sort of in-game psyche now (eg their personalities have been copied into the game as digital data).

[Kraco]

I bet it felt good to be called an archmage, haha. Although Akatsuki's reactions were what really made those scenes. She's made a bit too foolish, though. The sage wasn't really talking about anything overly difficult. Being so airheaded will only make Shiroe consider her a kid, so she should train her brain more and act like an adult if she insists she's one.

The memory loss is more nefarious than you give it credit for, Bill. It would be even logical it began the memory erosion from those that aren't overly relevant to the game world. Pretty much like Shiroe mused. It could take a while before anybody noticed, as I don't expect the players to be talking that much about their RL issues in game, and if they happened to talk, somebody not remembering something would be just shrugged off. However, ultimately it would lead to the affected players not being players anymore but in game demi-humans, having forgotten they once were merely sitting in front of a computer. At that point those who had respawned less would surely be acutely aware of it, witnessing the fate of other players.

Shiroe might need to visit again the wretched city up north and interview some of the poor bastards who get killed repeatedly by the scumbags who turned the place into a hellhole.

[MFauli]

havent seen the new ep yet, but had to say something.

the line "it doesnt even matter if there is no hope, as the madness of the system grows" is the best single text line ive heard in a song in a long time. it´s just so ... thought-provoking, exciting.

and now watching.

edit:

watched it.
very interesting episode.
im actually not sure what to make of it. the way these world-changing events were described, it doesnt seem like world-class magic is something anyone can use, but is the consequence of the game developer instating an update/patch to the game. Now, if world-class magic could be achieved by an adventurer, that would be a complete game-changer and a possible route towards escaping this virtual world.

[Ryllharu]

World magic shouldn't be something that an in-game character is able to do. It's just a theory made up by the mage to explain the actions of game-changing phenomenon that happened externally.

im actually not sure what to make of it. the way these world-changing events were described, it doesnt seem like world-class magic is something anyone can use, but is the consequence of the game developer instating an update/patch to the game. Now, if world-class magic could be achieved by an adventurer, that would be a complete game-changer and a possible route towards escaping this virtual world.I wonder if World Class Magic really is something cooked up by the "in-game" world. I think the real hint was from the mage's description of the first time it was used, not the second or the third (the Apocalypse).

Consider this scenario:
The in-game world is a mirror universe to our own. Time runs faster, the world isn't quite as big, active energy manipulation is possible (magic and MP).

Humanity and the other races in this world nearly obliterated the Alv race. Through the six cursed women, they took their revenge, as described in this episode. Now you have millions of cursed souls, constantly resurrecting over and over again, generating their own anima over and over. Like as if every person who died in our own recent world wars soul was trapped in limbo, then pulled from there and used to create regenerating rabid animals.

With the second World Class magic use, the perpetrator opted to link our world with the world of Elder Tale. Either through inspiration to a developer, or something less subtle, the elder tale RPG was created in our world, acting as a gateway for psyche in our world to possess regenerating anima in the world of Elder Tale. This was done as a "last hope" type of counter to the first use of World Class Magic.

Over the course of about 100 years, the Elder Tale world was beginning to stabilize, meeting a balance between the demonic curse and the divine blessing (first and second World Class magic uses). The need for the MMO gateway was starting to wane. Someone new decided that they'd rather not doom these divine souls to permanent enslavement, and "rescued" them. This is the Apocalypse, severing the link between our world and Elder Tale's. Any psyches (souls) linked to Elder Tale at the time were dragged into Elder Tale (copied or otherwise), and anyone not logged in at the time the magic was activated (the update in our world) can simply play the game as normal.

tldr;
What I'm saying is that perhaps their world was never a game to begin with. The MMO was created on our side as an effect of the Second World Class Magic by linking our world to their own, though subtly. The Apocalypse has slammed that gateway shut, taking in or copying the psyche of anyone who was logged in at the time.

It remains to be seen whether or not there are a few million braindead people in our world, or if a copy was simply made.

[David75]

I liked the anima explanation, difference between NPC, Adventurers and demi-humans.
Seems to me like after getting killed a number of times, an adventurer might become an NPC. If said NPC dies, he becomes a demi-human.
That would give some insecurity to everyone, at least if it's true and the info is spread. I wonder how PKing rates would progress though.

[Kraco]

I wonder how PKing rates would progress though.

Who knows. Scumbags would still kill anybody for opposing or bothering them, and in fact they might kill even more willingly if they knew there are adverse effects and the only thing the victim loses is not simple possessions on their person (those in a bank would still be safe, after all). Those with a real purpose would also PK opponents regardless, since they have a purpose requiring it, like during the mission to save the friends from the wretched city in the north, or just like people are killed in RL in wars, police raids, or gang fights. The one thing that might lose numbers is a voluntary duel for sport (we haven't seen such, I believe, but they must exist, even now).

[Kraco]

Episode 15 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=510903)





- --- - - - - --





What was the deal with the Dog Prince? Have we seen players add new contacts to their lists? Are the lists frozen? For technical issues like the guild building management they certainly do work. The dude's face did look like he actually knew what was going on. At first I thought he's a fricking NPC, but that would be quite impossible.

This ep was a bit boring all in all. To be honest I don't care about the brats to this extent. It was fine when we got short glimpses of them, but I don't think we need to see them grind and train to gain a low level or two... Fortunately the massive attack interrupts that.

I suppose we will see now a bit more action and thrill and a bit less politics and talks. Marie is the first one who should get her shit together. Isn't she level 90 as well? Why was she just sitting there?

[Buffalobiian]

She didn't have any of her equipment. Whether it can be summoned in an instant (or if she took it off physically) I'm not sure. It made little sense if you remember that they're there for the safety of the little ones, but she's in holiday mode through and through.

I don't know what the deal with Rudy is, except that the option to toggle "add friends" is only available when you log out (which is weird).

[David75]

It might be that Rudy is at the end of his number of resurections... and it shows in such bugs where his data is corrupted enough he can not be added to friend lists or guilds...
It might even be that bad, that he's already showing signs of what he'll be the next time he's resurected: a labrador...

Just saying, in case my hunch about the transitions in that world is correct. Just that Rudy going from Adventurer to animal isn't like Adventurer->NPC. Unless there are some rules about levels, like Adventurer->NPC if level>50 else animal

[Kraco]

I think you took the dog comparison a little too seriously, David...

[Ryllharu]

My guess he's a Person of the Land who converted to Adventurer, mostly due to his sudden appearance in Akibahara after Shiroe cleaned it out.

On the other hand, we don't really know if Friend Lists even work anymore. Everyone we know already had other people they needed to contact on their friend's lists. As far as I know, Serara never added Nyanta.

I was really disappointed that we didn't see Maryelle fight (yet). She's a cleric, right? That means she's more than capable of fighting. They're the most combat-oriented healers.

[Kraco]

My guess he's a Person of the Land who converted to Adventurer, mostly due to his sudden appearance in Akibahara after Shiroe cleaned it out.

He wouldn't know anything if he was a person of the land. Even if he was a faker and could somehow keep the act up, you'd think the others had noticed, no matter if they are still kids. That's why I rejected the idea. Well, I suppose there is a theoretical possibility for it, but I'd consider it a weakness in this otherwise solid enough story. Maybe it would be a little more plausible if he had spent a long time indeed in Akiba listening to the incomprehensible (to an NPC) prattle of the players, so that he could superficially act like one and offhandedly mention stuff from RL even though he had no idea what he's talking about. But that would make him a genius (as a conman), not an idiot like he is otherwise.

[MFauli]

Rudy´s definitely either a person from the land or an adventurer that died too many times. Can´t see how it´s anything but. The former would explain his style of speech. The latter would make for a more tragic twist (the always cheery guy who´s acting tough actually is the biggest loser and close to real death/memory loss/whatever).

Also, I enjoy watching the low level-group find their way.

What Im really disappointed by, though, is the lack of Shiroe fighting. I want to watch him do crazy strategist stuff like you can see in the intro, when dozens of holographic screens are popping up all around him.

[Archangel]

I was really disappointed that we didn't see Maryelle fight (yet). She's a cleric, right? That means she's more than capable of fighting. They're the most combat-oriented healers.
Titties McGee is clearly just there to look pretty, she prob sucks at actual combat.

I like the idea that Rudy is a NPC but he's in the ED along with freckles so that tells me he's joining Log Horizon eventually and it would be weird to be able to add non player characters to your guild. I don't know of an alternative explanation though.


This ep was a bit boring all in all. To be honest I don't care about the brats to this extent. It was fine when we got short glimpses of them, but I don't think we need to see them grind and train to gain a low level or two... Fortunately the massive attack interrupts that.

I care about them a hell of a lot more than i cared about that bitch face princess last episode, that one was way worse. Still needs more Akatsuki though, and Shiroe being is clever bastard self.

[Buffalobiian]

Well princess is sure to join Crusty's guild, so I don't think it's particularly weird given how human they act already. It's just weird that Rudy knows about spells and cooldowns and really isn't cautious enough about not dying.

[Archangel]

Well princess is sure to join Crusty's guild, so I don't think it's particularly weird given how human they act already. It's just weird that Rudy knows about spells and cooldowns and really isn't cautious enough about not dying.
Oh shit you're right, and in the opening there's a scene of him on the floor with freckles crying her eyes out...!

[Kraco]

Like I've said before, I've enjoyed every scene of Crusty courting the princess. They make such a funny pair. However, I haven't enjoyed too many of the scenes where the kids are struggling to fight some lousy skeletons. The worst parts are Minori reporting very bloody detail to Shiroe with no humour whatsoever, even though I admit those scenes were highly realistic since that's exactly what a kid would do in such a situation, thinking their report is the most important thing in the world. Judging by those scenes, Shiroe would already be easily mature enough to become a father. He should get it on with Akatsuki. While Akatsuki might not yet be quite there for the role of a mother, she's so caring that the nine months would probably do the trick.

[David75]

Am I the only one thinking that this show could also server as a generic MMORPG advertising?

[KrayZ33]

"No enemy patrols sight!"

awww... useless piece of ****

[Ryllharu]

Seriously.

It was like those kids were learning the most basic tactics in MMOs. I might forgive them in other circumstances, but they're all at least level 20. What player doesn't know how to pull by level 5? Also, pulling isn't an advanced tactic. Its what you do when you are fighting mobs too strong for your own group (which they weren't, the right side of the dungeon was their level or lower), or to get the followers off the boss.

That's where I can agree with Kraco's frustration. Minori is aggravating to listen to, reporting the most mundane things as if they were amazing. I expected her to actually take charge of their group, not just have a conference and then be the godforsaken lookout. She's the defender-type support class, she should be filling the same role that Shiroe does in his battles, being the tactician. Or alternatively, the bard girl could do the same. The way it came off, it looked like Minori did absolutely nothing while the others did all the work.

Then again, this is Japan, the country where MMO players are known to stand in queue for their turn to farm "get X number of animal hides" quests. Someone probably does play lookout when they are doing group quests.

[NeoCybercoin]

This is certainly interesting. So there'd be factions of monsters who invade as well? At least that's what I thought of when I saw the end of the episode. Since there used to be massive wars against monsters and there was 'peace' for a long time. Now the monsters are starting a war?

Also Rudy, didn't see that one coming. The dude is a freaking NPC.

[shinta|hikari]

I'm thinking that Elder Tale was a really easy MMO and that a lot of things were automated, which meant that these dummies were able to muddle to level 20s without proper knowledge or tactics. Then all of a sudden, all that automated stuff was gone, and they had to use their physical bodies to do stuff, which in turn made the game quite difficult. For example, looking for enemy patrols, isn't looking at a radar where red dots appear, but actually straining your eyes and ears to see enemies in the dark caves.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 16 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=513520)


----------------------------










I'm going to go along the "Rundel Haus died too many times" idea that's been mentioned now. Perhaps when you lose all of your memories of the real world you truly become an AI and therefore will never revive again. Minori, Isuzu and Serara all pissed me off more or less this episode. Isuzu annoyed because she's defaulting all responsibilities to the adults and is trying not to take part (she has a hunch on what's causing Rundel Haus's problem, but still). Minori left the group while pretending to help people evacuate. If you're going to engage enemies, at least tell the main party. As they said you're free to do whatever so lying doesn't help anything here. I also think she's overestimating herself. Serara's "don't fight" doesn't help anything either. Debating means laying the problem open to solve. Shutting people up doesn't accomplish anything.

[Archangel]

You're gonna make a terrible father Bill, way too harsh on kids.

[Kraco]

I think there's a bit of a game vs reality conflict going in those kids' head. Well, not only theirs as I doubt quite a few of the adults haven't either really swallowed yet the this is now our reality mentality. What Minori's young group did wasn't overly strange if you keep that in mind. Their righteousness overrides their fear of death. The bigger picture doesn't really need to be mentioned as they would be only vaguely aware of that, even if those ambiguous feelings might still propel them to do the right thing. Assuming getting better along with the people of the land is the right thing, like one would assume. It's actually quite nice to see the difference between those who claimed themselves authority (Shiroe & others of the round table) and these kids. The latter are definitely how players in a normal game would be, the former are already thinking almost like politicians in RL, even though they are all supposed to be adventurers. In the end, like they admitted themselves, if they had kept acting like adventurers (players), this whole situation wouldn't even be upon them.

Marie is bloody useless. How on earth did she ever gain XP to level up? Using some useless skills solely, no doubt. She must be some housewife who was only killing her boredom in the game for years but isn't really a gamer in the sense she would have chased tough quests, new monsters, new places, and new equipment.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the princess has in mind. I hope she has a good quest to offer to Crusty, with a nice reward (such as herself), haha.

[Ryllharu]

Marie is bloody useless. How on earth did she ever gain XP to level up? Using some useless skills solely, no doubt. She must be some housewife who was only killing her boredom in the game for years but isn't really a gamer in the sense she would have chased tough quests, new monsters, new places, and new equipment.
I wouldn't be so quick to cut Marie short. A lot of the other high level adventurers are scared of her, and her strength is abnormal.

I think she's really just too concerned about the young player's well-being. I'm quite certain that she is older than her avatar would lead you to believe. I wouldn't be surprised if she was a woman with grown children. Her concern was young player's safety first and foremost, anything else is secondary.

[MFauli]

I think she's really just too concerned about the young player's well-being. I'm quite certain that she is older than her avatar would lead you to believe. I wouldn't be surprised if she was a woman with grown children. Her concern was young player's safety first and foremost, anything else is secondary.

All characters look like their real selves in-game, wasnt that established when Akatsuki was force-transformed back into her real self?

[Kraco]

All characters look like their real selves in-game, wasnt that established when Akatsuki was force-transformed back into her real self?

This isn't SAO. Akatsuki only gained her real (?) looks after she consumed that transformation bottle. She had the body of a big man before that, and regretted it quite badly, as her voice was still that of a cute girl.

[Buffalobiian]

This isn't SAO. Akatsuki only gained her real (?) looks after she consumed that transformation bottle. She had the body of a big man before that, and regretted it quite badly, as her voice was still that of a cute girl.

Those are her real looks, since her reasoning was that being so big was hard to move. It wasn't a problem when the game was being played with keyboard and mouse, but it was when they were living it character.

As for never speaking, well I suppose she never caught on to using voice changers.

[fireheart]

I don't remember exactly but wasn't the problem for Akatsuki and Shiroe that they were so much taller than their real life counterparts? Think they talked about it being akward and hard to move around, for example I think Shiroe bumped into things or triped a lot in the first episode. So Akatsuki wanted a potion to change her gender and changed her height to reflect her real height but I don't remember them mentioning anything about her irl looks.

Edit: Checked the first episode again, Shiroe mentioned that their game characters did resembled their real life bodies to some degree. Though how much is probably hard to say seeing as Akatsuki was way taller than her real life body and the wrong gender at first and Nyanta probably doesn't look anything like that irl.

[Buffalobiian]

By looks I meant height, I suppose. That's the only requirement she was really looking at (and the sex change to not be weird).

[Kraco]

Those are her real looks...


By looks I meant height, I suppose. That's the only requirement she was really looking at (and the sex change to not be weird).

That cheap excuse won't save you! Just admit you made a mistake.

I'd find it hard to believe a significant portion of the players wouldn't alter their looks in the game to a degree, even if they, for some reason, based it on their RL looks, narcists aside. In the first place they are in a fantasy setting, which tends to beg for different styles compared to our contemporary one, especially in Japan were conformity is so big. Though clearly this show wanted to suggest many copied they RL exterior since quite a few wear glasses. Maybe they are only for style, who knows, as I can't imagine a single reason why anybody would want such a weakness in a combat heavy game.

[Buffalobiian]

That cheap excuse won't save you! Just admit you made a mistake.


Yeah. Typo indeed. xD

Personally I just associate the players with their real looks (plus racial features such as elf ears and cat furs) just to make things easy since it also doesn't matter what they look like in real life.

As for glasses, that's based more on character design than combat logic. Glasses = smart!

It's also necessary to pull off the reflective-deceptive look. The alternative white-eyed, wicked-smile look isn't nearly as good.

[MFauli]

and Nyanta probably doesn't look anything like that irl.

the big twist is going to be that Nyanta looks EXACTLY like that irl! :o

[Buffalobiian]

the big twist is going to be that Nyanta looks EXACTLY like that irl! :o

He's some cultured, good looking, 40-something master or bar owner.

Length of hair will vary (but he will definitely have some), and facial hair is definite.

edit: and no glasses.

[Ryllharu]

I thought he was Shiroe's boss at whatever tech company he worked at and Akatsuki was a college student a year or two younger than Shiroe. Lastly, Henrietta's real name is Umeko and she's an accountant.

Thus concluding the only real-world information we know.

[fireheart]

I'm pretty sure that Shiroe said he was about to graduate from college so he's still in college and Akatsuki only said they're basically the same age. It's never specified if they're the same age or who's older from what I remember.

[Buffalobiian]

I remember that there was an episode where Shiroe explained why he (and most other people in the Tea Party) called Nyanta danchou, but I thought it was because he was like a boss/leader. I could well be wrong. A quick internet search didn't bring up anything useful.

[Ryllharu]

I'm pretty sure that Shiroe said he was about to graduate from college so he's still in college and Akatsuki only said they're basically the same age. It's never specified if they're the same age or who's older from what I remember.
You're right, he's a graduate student. Akatsuki didn't specify, but she's probably within a year or two.

[Kraco]

Episode 17 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=516075)






--- - - - - - -- - -




I thought things were speeding up, but in the end there's no such development in sight, after all. A bit more fighting by the brats, and not overly exciting such to boot, but otherwise it was still politics and talks. I'm not saying I wouldn't have enjoyed this episode, as I have so far enjoyed all the politics of Shiroe & Co and the people of the land, but at the same time I'm missing some good action scenes with more mature players than the kids.

Still, the princess saved a lot. She makes such a fine pair with Crusty, even though I've no idea if anything is going to develop between them. Her plan was certainly more proactive than I anticipated, and far more insightful than anything we have seen thus far from the nobles' side. But then again, she's the one who has had relaxed (sometimes too relaxed) discussions with an adventurer. The other nobles are only relying on their own speculation and hearsay when trying to judge the adventurers. With this kind of a conclusion it's actually quite funny Shiroe, Crusty, and Michitaka attended the meeting with such seriousness; after all, they knew well enough they could promise absolutely nothing. Their only power in Akiba is to enforce certain limitations, and that's it. They can't muster anybody. But I guess that's Shiroe being Shiroe, and if they had told the nobles that from the beginning, there would have been no meetings.

[NeoCybercoin]

I don't recall seeing just how strong the adventurers are. Don't think I've seen them lifting heavy stuff or something. Michitaka clearly showed just how physically superior they are by hitting the table.

[lelouch]

What are the Knights of Izumo again?

[Buffalobiian]

Just some NPCs who were really strong and protected the people of the land. They were around when this was still just a game.

[NeoCybercoin]

Yeah they'd be like Elite status. You'd need a good party to take one down if it were a monster.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 18 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=518582)


------------------------














Finally, time for some Crusty prowess show-off time. He's overtaken Nyanta as my overall favourite character since the latter doesn't do terribly much anymore.

Valkyrie Battle Goddess = instant popularity win.

[Ryllharu]

Meh. I'm not a fan of her outfit. At all. It's very 90s bad anime.

I'm really hoping we get to see Maryelle fight soon, or Crusty's 2nd in command, or Henrietta. Maryelle is the only cleric and we've never seen her fight, and the other two are both bards and must have better skills than the worthless level 25 one we've been stuck watching.

The politics and the dialogue are great for a while, but there hasn't been any good combat since the Rescue Serara Arc. The kids are amazingly dull to watch.

[Kraco]

It's kind of funny the people of the land are indeed the real humans here. The adventurers are ex-players of a game. Even if they have, to a varying degree, accepted they are stuck in a full-immersion game now, they can't ever change that fact. So, the princess, a regular human, couldn't have foreseen her speech was perfect for players hungry for a quest.

I hope the princess will be around to see some of the fighting as well, from close distance. Since they are players we are talking about, once they get down to it, it ought to be a real massacre with no inhibitions. Thus, Crusty's "Kill them all" was the best part of the ep for me. That's what players should be all about!

I hope the next episodes will finally have their share of action, and not only by the kids, even if the preview was ominous in that respect (by only showing the kids).

[MFauli]

With how broadly this anime tries to create the rules of a new world, I´m kinda disappointed by the lack of topics such as sex or crime. You´d think that with so many different players, there´d be some with certain urges. Also, there should be some who act like criminals, and not necessarily because they´re evil per se, but because they don´t want to accept this new situation as "real" instead of the game they knew it as.

I´d also really like to know two things:

1.) Monsters do respawn just like the adventurers, and if I recall correctly, it is really the very same monsters that were killed. Killing monsters seems fine for inarticulate dinosaurs and such, but what about intelligent, talk-capable monsters? I feel like it´s highly unfair to just continue killing those, instead of approaching them to figure out a peaceful solution. Really, since they also respawn, they´re not that different from the adventurers.

2.) Was it established what it takes to kill a NPC? Since the princess is about to follow onto the battlegrounds, I was wondering just how dangerous that would be. Do NPCs have a health bar and can be healed, or are they one-hit characters that behave like real human beings in the real world? Since the People from the Land do have soldiers that can fight monsters, I´d reckon they also have a health bar, but I can´t remember ever having seen one.

The princess´ new outfit is gorgeous.

[Ryllharu]

1.) Monsters do respawn just like the adventurers, and if I recall correctly, it is really the very same monsters that were killed. Killing monsters seems fine for inarticulate dinosaurs and such, but what about intelligent, talk-capable monsters? I feel like it´s highly unfair to just continue killing those, instead of approaching them to figure out a peaceful solution. Really, since they also respawn, they´re not that different from the adventurers.From the mage's explanation episode, and our discussion here, it seems that the vast overwhelming majority of monsters are an existence similar to adventurers that have been killed far too many times.

The monsters are part of a world-alteration curse. Their spirits revive again and again and again, but their minds are long past eroded, far beyond the worst of the memory-loss the adventurers experience. The difference is that the monsters never had one, while an adventurer's mind used isolated from that erosion by being in the world we know...though now it is here.

In short, there are no intelligent respawning monsters. They barely register above animals in terms of intelligence.

[MFauli]

That´s the assumption for now, I guess, yes.

[Kraco]

2.) Was it established what it takes to kill a NPC? Since the princess is about to follow onto the battlegrounds, I was wondering just how dangerous that would be. Do NPCs have a health bar and can be healed, or are they one-hit characters that behave like real human beings in the real world? Since the People from the Land do have soldiers that can fight monsters, I´d reckon they also have a health bar, but I can´t remember ever having seen one.

Yeah, they have been shown to have a health bar a number of times. If you want to check, watch for example ep 11 and jump to 9:14.

It's probably dangerous for the princess because she was assigned a personal guard of 12 players, when the actual strike force was 96. So, she got bloody 10% of the available manpower as her personal safety detail. In addition to that, apparently being lazy and cowardly doesn't level one up much, as Shiroe adviced the merchant guild dude to find equipment requiring less than level 4. So, I'd say her HP is on the low side as well.

[MFauli]

Has it been established that NPCs can level up? Do they have levels? If so, is their level equal in meaning to the level of adventurers? If so, why are the People of the Land generally so weak? Something doesn´t add up here.

[Kraco]

I don't know why the game / world would have different systems for different types of characters. That would be making things overly complicated. Players have levels and monsters have totally comparable levels (obviously). I don't really see why NPCs wouldn't have similar levels since we do know they can kick ass: Izumo knights were said to have been as tough as expensive old boots. When Crusty was amusing himself by fighting the knights back at the castle, he said they were good (even though he was obviously lying when he said he had to make an effort to beat them).

Regular NPCs, aside from some exceptions and obviously villains, aren't generally that tough in games. They are just people living ordinary lives, not adventurers who wander the wilds every day seeking monsters or scoundrels to beat. It wouldn't make any sense for them to be tough. Back when Elder Tale was just a game, there were thousands upon thousands of players taking care of every problem, and occasionally the named knights appeared as well. The NPCs didn't need to do anything to level up.

[Ryllharu]

They don't quite follow the traditional class rules either. The mage obviously was more powerful and versatile with magic than any adventurer. He was bringing up illusionary screens and infographics without even an incantation. I also wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who cast the world-class magic that caused The Apocalypse, dragging adventurer's psyche into this world.

Perhaps Lenessia is more capable individually than we are led to believe...for a Level 4 equivalent. They are foreshadowing heavily that she will be attacked or separated from her guards.

I'm still of the mind that this isn't a game anymore, but that they've transcended dimensions to this parallel world.

[Buffalobiian]

If we're still following game rules, I don't think Yamato people can level up. NPCs don't level up when they kill Adventurers normally, so I don't see why they'd do so now, just like how they don't respawn.

[Kraco]

They don't quite follow the traditional class rules either. The mage obviously was more powerful and versatile with magic than any adventurer.

That's fairly typical in games, though: Players have a limited selection of spells, oft level dependent (and naturally class dependent), but NPCs can perform weirder things in a preprogrammed manner to serve the story. Now that it's not just a game anymore, I imagine Shiroe, and others with similar wits, should now be able to create new spells. The world is otherwise so perfectly complete that it would be strange if they couldn't. They could build a fricking ironclad, after all. Maybe they were foreshadowing that during the couple of scenes where Shiroe was wondering what he could do with his chosen skills.


If we're still following game rules, I don't think Yamato people can level up. NPCs don't level up when they kill Adventurers normally, so I don't see why they'd do so now, just like how they don't respawn.

That would be quite silly under the current circumstances, after the game became reality. There are/have been powerful NPCs. Would they be born that powerful, then? Little babies hurling fireballs and splitting rocks with their tiny fists?

[Buffalobiian]

Hmm. What I mean is that they don't level up via killing or gaining xp points. A foot soldier for example should not level up by killing more goblins. However, if he kills goblins and earns himself a promotion to captain-rank, then he may have a new level with access to more skills, higher HP/armour etc.

For sure, NPCs have become more human but levelling up isn't a human characteristic. Rather, it's a game-construct, just like respawning.

[Kraco]

You are talking about technicalities. Levelling up is nothing but a simplification for game mechanics. The real deal obviously is gaining experience one way or another. Some better games (though I don't know about MMO ones) have partially shifted from the "kill x amount of goblins to level up" to more sensible ways of measuring experience. But in either case it's about putting what you know to use and developing those skills. Levels are just an easy way to measure and control it in games.

I wouldn't even be sure the world of this game follows the rather stupid old way (D&D way). I have a feeling it's more like the Elder Scrolls of using skills enough levels you up, possibly quests helping as well. We have seen some of the kids use non-combat skills extensively and talking about how those skills got up, just like they would in Elder Scrolls. Although we don't know if that levelled the character levels up as well, but it would be strange to have skills and levels totally unrelated to each other. The fact some level 90 people like Marie are utterly useless in combat suggests you could level up without slaying anything, just by repeatedly using whatever random skills you chose.

Fighting type players (and why not NPCs) would still seek out monsters because that's the best way to raise all combat, attack magic, and other such skills, regardless of any exp gained from kills. Saying that when a soldier gets a promotion, it suddenly grants him an array of new skills, health, and whatnot sounds so uber unrealistic that I can't see how it would suit this world. That would also mean the duke would be a huge fighting machine since he's near the top of scale. But obviously he's not. Why, even the princess should be like a real valkyrie, not only a newbie wearing the armor of one.

[Buffalobiian]

That's because the Duke is a non-combat role just like the princess. If we say that levels are only a simplification of showing how 'good' someone is (while what actually matters is experience), then what would happen if you gave a lvl4 person a lvl50-and-above weapon? Would they simply be bad at wielding it because of their lack of experience, or would they simply be unable to lift/equip/swing the weapon at all due to game/mechanics-lock?

Remember the whole cooking thing? If you weren't at a certain level of cooking, you just burn the food to a crisp. You don't produce bad tasting food.

The princess and other soldiers may well be able to learn and get better at weapons and skills, but I don't believe they'll be able to level up to access further skills that were previously locked as such.

[Ryllharu]

Remember the whole cooking thing? If you weren't at a certain level of cooking, you just burn the food to a crisp. You don't produce bad tasting food.

The princess and other soldiers may well be able to learn and get better at weapons and skills, but I don't believe they'll be able to level up to access further skills that were previously locked as such.
Ah, but that's where you're missing the implications of world-class magic, the MMO system, and the one that they have now. The adventurers would produce that disgusting purple blob if they used the menu to make food, the same way Sword Art Online did. It's true that is does turn purple if their cooking level was too low, but the real world equivalent happens all the same, it's just not as immediately obvious.

That said, boars don't automatically turn into a large bone with meat on it, and goblins when killed don't turn into bubbles and coins. Think of the MMO-aspects and menus as a world-class spell continually running. As far as we know, People of the Land have no access to that kind of information. They can't talk telepathically (chat/whispering), and they definitely can't "click" on someone and figure out their name, rank, level, and class. When adventurers aren't cooking or crafting properly, and try to use the menus to do it, they're using the world-class magic as a shortcut, and of course it doesn't execute properly.

Similarly, I wouldn't expect People of the Land to kill a few monsters, and automatically have access to a new skill. They would have to learn and study magic the hard way, or practice with a sword.

However, I think adventurers are in the same boat. They can't learn any new skills outside the shortcut system and it's UI without doing things the hard way, or worse, that the system will actually hinder them if they're not the correct class/subclass. The same isn't true of People of the Land. Lenessia could become a spellsword with little difficulty if she practiced both, with her subclass as Princess.


------
If Shiroe wonders if he can create very powerful documents, I seriously want to know what things Serara can do once she maxes out housekeeper. It has to be secretly better than it seems.
edit: Perhaps you literally cannot clean up a guild hall, hindered by the system itself. Maybe Serara will become quite valuable over the months, and charge exorbitant fees! Not that money matters to adventurers...

[Buffalobiian]

That said, boars don't automatically turn into a large bone with meat on it

But they do, if you kill it. I'm not sure what Nyanta did to the boar when he brought it live back to the kitchen though. It's got to be killed somehow, and I doubt skinning it live was the way to do it.

Maybe killing it in the kitchen gets you different results, while killing it in a forest means the system defaults to a 'meat on bone' so you can carry it in your inventory.

I do think that People of the Land are able to improve their skills with use, but I don't think they can use the levelling system, which besides being a show of strength is also a tool to restrict access to spells/weapons/armour.

[Ryllharu]

Adventurers are restricted by the system to certain levels for given skills or equipment. We can't say the same for People of the Land at this point. Shiroe and the trade guild master were going by what they know. I imagine that any player-crafted items and armors are similarly restricted, but loot might be different.

Regan certainly knows spells that are far beyond anything Shiroe or the other casters could produce.

[Kraco]

So far we don't really know anything about how the NPC's levels or skills (assuming they exist or not) are handled. The only thing we do know is that some of them can fight, even Shiroe said they could beat the goblins, even if with catastrophic casualties. We do know they have a health bar similar to adventurers and monsters. Some of them can become really powerful, though we don't know how. That's all. I based my theories on the assumption the world wouldn't have redundantly multiple systems. But who knows. I took the disappearance of the named knights to mean the adventurers are meant to replace their function. That, and other things, would mean the adventurers are meant to integrate into this world, so they couldn't be so different.


If Shiroe wonders if he can create very powerful documents, I seriously want to know what things Serara can do once she maxes out housekeeper. It has to be secretly better than it seems.
edit: Perhaps you literally cannot clean up a guild hall, hindered by the system itself. Maybe Serara will become quite valuable over the months, and charge exorbitant fees! Not that money matters to adventurers...

Not necessarily. When this was just a game, certain skills might have existed just for fun (for people who find them fun). Looking at the huge number of female players, the game must have been as much a social network as it was a bloodbath for typical male players seeking single-minded monster fights and loot. However, if the players are now stuck for life in the this world, then housekeeping skills could be handy, especially if they are truly alive and can, for example, reproduce. She would make an excellent wife! Or, like you said, she could become the Martha Steward of Akiba and make some money with the skills...

[David75]

NPC probably could better their skills after the Apocalypse. Maybe they just don't know they can, because it usually means exposing their lives in dangerous quests. If that detail changed, nobody even thought about it yet.

Regarding Lenessia, her combat level is extremely low, because she was nothing but a doll to be married someday, with no power whatsoever.
What has changed though, is that it seems she's got some persuasion/charisma power. Hard to tell if there's a status bar for that. But being able to convince that bunch of free adventurers probably isn't that easy, even if they craved for some fighting, since there's no other reward than doing it.
But since it's only one achievement, and only in a specific context, maybe that Leadership/charisma power is just some silly idea I got ;)

[Kraco]

But being able to convince that bunch of free adventurers probably isn't that easy, even if they craved for some fighting, since there's no other reward than doing it.
But since it's only one achievement, and only in a specific context, maybe that Leadership/charisma power is just some silly idea I got ;)

No, I think it was bloody easy. They were bored out of their mind with no quests being offered (since they were just hanging around Akiba, not seeking them elsewhere), and generally speaking with nothing to do at all but some occasional grinding of respawning stock monsters for exp and ingredients. Then a beautiful and honest princess appears out of nowhere to ask for help (and thus offer a quest) backed by two prominent members of the round table. The princess could have easily gathered an even larger army, had they advertised the speech better. But then again, this is probably more than sufficient already, considering the 40+ level limit.

Still, I'm not saying she wouldn't have some charm skill. It would be a natural result of her station, upbringing, beauty, and honesty.

[Kraco]

Episode 19 -HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=520920)





-- - - - -- - - --




Even I have to confess I'm getting fed up by the kids claiming the bulk of the episodes lately, and especially the combat. The fact we have a splendid beginning with Crusty's crack forces fighting against a huge number of enemies reinforced by high level monsters only made the worse when the rest of the episode suddenly jumped back to the kids and their struggle against the kinds of basic grunts we have seen them fight multiple times before, or something only remotely better. Even Akatsuki is getting sick of waiting, and she's normally happy just being being allowed to stay near Shiroe.

I feel like the series director also made a mistake with Rudy. I recently rewatched the show from the beginning and near the end of the first episode Shiroe is talking about how 20M players worldwide are trapped in the game. The video is showing different characters during that narration, and Rudy is prominently among those shown (21:42). Quite misleading, I'd say! Cheaply misleading, to boot. But I guess if he's turned into a guinea pig for Shiroe, he'll serve some role...

I hope the next episode will finally forget the kids and show us stuff that really matters in the big picture, including the core team fighting after such a long time. Not to forget Crusty, of course. I was very happy he looked so gleeful fighting. That's how a player should be in an action game, not like the kids who have wrinkles deeper than a 60 years old career politician, due to taking shit so overly seriously. I hope will see a lot more of Crusty and the princess before the show is over.

[Buffalobiian]

The kids have every reason to take this seriously though, because they're shit and lack experience. They haven't exactly got the experience to make ends meet and also lack the confidence of having multiple battles under their belt. In short, it's their first big battle and they're afraid of losing.

With the next episode titled "Contract" and Shiroe supposedly making a difference to Roundel Haus' outcome (I actually wish he'd stay dead to make this count), I suspect it'll have something to do with super-powerful text documents that have been alluded to previously.

And for a Guardian class, Crusty sure isn't taking a lot of hits.

Marie actually annoys me more than the kids. Her accent and uselessness... urgh..

[Ryllharu]

Marie actually annoys me more than the kids. Her accent and uselessness... urgh..
They're just not showing her fight, which is pissing me off. She was quite scuffed up in the last scene, so she's taking part and kicking ass...they just don't show it. They show her healing only (which she does need to do a lot because the other kids are weak too).

[Kraco]

They're just not showing her fight, which is pissing me off. She was quite scuffed up in the last scene, so she's taking part and kicking ass...they just don't show it. They show her healing only (which she does need to do a lot because the other kids are weak too).

It's fine if she's good at healing. Obviously she's useless at fighting, but we have hundreds of sea goblins (or whatever they are) against only a handful of adventurers. They are going to need all the healing they can get, no matter if they are level 90.

[MFauli]

How bizarre, I actually enjoy the kids´ battles more than those of Crusty and co., because they´re not uber-strong. They have to be scared to lose, so their fights bear a heavier burden. With Crusty, it´s just eye-candy, like "oh, how will he strike down the next foe?", wheras with Minorin and her group it´s "WILL the make it through the next battle?". I prefer that.

Now, what´s fuck-stupid is that Rundel sacrificed himself to save Touya. Some silly pride here, since he should know that real adventurers revive after being killed (and he doesn´t know of the memory loss thing). Touya dying here would have been an inconvience, nothing more.

Also, Minorin is a bitch. When she states towards the end "there´s still hope", I thought that she´d have a real plan. No, she doesn´t. She just gets in contact with Shiroe and begs for some miracle, lol. Of course, as the preview shows, that miracle comes true, but for Minorin to get Izusu´s hopes up with just that, it´s bitchy and mean.
Still, I would have thought that there´d be another solution to saving Rundel: How about some good old-fashioned CPR? Since the people of the land are "real" within their world, if magic fails, why not use realistic reanimation methods? Rundel´s body wasn´t destroyed or anything, so it could have worked.

Anyway, I´m glad Rundel won´t die, he´s one of my favorite characters. Guess I like characters that go against the odds, and what´s a greater odd than to try compete with the adventurers when you´re just one of those weakly people of the land. major respect!


Oh, and we saw Shiroe in the real world. That rules out any "the real world never existed, this game actually is real"-theories.

[Ryllharu]

Oh, and we saw Shiroe in the real world. That rules out any "the real world never existed, this game actually is real"-theories.
Blatantly a flashback. That was Naotsugu's memory.

[MFauli]

Blatantly a flashback. That was Naotsugu's memory.

Yes, I know that it was a flashback. But some of you in this thread had been discussing how maybe this never was a game, but an alternate dimension or some crap. This flashback shows that it is indeed a game and the adventurers are indeed trapped inside. How the game acquired that level of AI, though, remains a mistery. Just because you´re trapped inside some videogame doesnt make its NPCs sentient.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought the theories were:

1) This is a cyber world and the players are stuck somehow
2) This is a cyber world and the players are NPCs who have had their human minds cloned somehow
3) This is a real physical world and the players are transported here somehow (don't actually remember this one being mentioned but if MFauli is so sure..)

In any case, I don't remember anyone saying that the real world never existed at all.

[Ryllharu]

Yes, I know that it was a flashback. But some of you in this thread had been discussing how maybe this never was a game, but an alternate dimension or some crap. This flashback shows that it is indeed a game and the adventurers are indeed trapped inside. How the game acquired that level of AI, though, remains a mistery. Just because you´re trapped inside some videogame doesnt make its NPCs sentient.
You misunderstood what the possibility was. Of course it was a game to players in our world. But the argument was that it was never really a game to begin with. As in not the sole creation of a game developer. The players were accessing the world of Elder Tale (another dimension) through the game interface. The game interface was actually part of a World Class spell, creating a bridge between the two worlds.

There were three uses of World Class magic.
- One cursed the land and created ever-respawning monsters.
- Two created a means to stop that, which was the Elder Tale Game-Bridge, linking their world to our own, appearing as an MMO in our world.
- Three is what the players call the Apocalypse.

[Kraco]

Now, what´s fuck-stupid is that Rundel sacrificed himself to save Touya. Some silly pride here, since he should know that real adventurers revive after being killed (and he doesn´t know of the memory loss thing). Touya dying here would have been an inconvience, nothing more.

It would have been a huge inconvenience. Touya was the only tank in the group, no in fact the only melee fighter. The rest were pretty much spell casters capable of light fighting at best, such as Izusu. Their tactics would have been ruined without Touya, despite Rudy acting like a tank every now and then. Any enemy heavier than cannon fodder would have made short work of them, or in fact any enemies in bigger numbers even if they were weak, since Rudy couldn't take hits like Touya.

[KrayZ33]

Rudy being an NPC is weird

you can't add him to your f-list, but you can join a group with him
you can use telepathy to tell him things (adventurer ability?)
he can level up just like everyone else
he uses a cooldown system (knowingly)

his character is not following the rules of the game for sure and I don't like the "everything has changed after the apocalypse" development, its the perfect excuse for ass-pulling... and I hate that

its not that I don't like it though.. its just weird..

if NPC can join your group, I'd definitively go and try to convince more powerfull ones to join me :D
or I could switch sides.. that could work too. there have always been boss encounters which I'd rather not have killed.

[Kraco]

you can't add him to your f-list, but you can join a group with him

What's the group? Isn't it something they just decided verbally?


you can use telepathy to tell him things (adventurer ability?)

No, you can't. The telepathy is basically using the interface to make an internal phone call to somebody on your friend list. Rudy can't be on a friend list -> no telepathy.


he can level up just like everyone else
he uses a cooldown system (knowingly)

his character is not following the rules of the game for sure and I don't like the "everything has changed after the apocalypse" development, its the perfect excuse for ass-pulling... and I hate that

I've been advocating for a while a theory where the players aren't that different from the NPCs, or rather the NPCs not so different from the players. They have had a health bar from the beginning, for example, and the NPC mage that contacted Shiroe summoned those windows that looked like they belonged to a game interface. In my opinion it makes sense the NPCs develop in the same way as the players. I don't see the need for redundant experience/skill systems.

[NeoCybercoin]

From what I can tell those Izumo Knights are much stronger than the average player. Sure, they were 'designed' to be that way but that doesn't mean normal NPC's can't become pseudo adventurers and become just as if not stronger.

[KrayZ33]

What's the group? Isn't it something they just decided verbally?

I don't think so, that would be rather absurd.
given the fact how minorin manages the status of each player


No, you can't.

but they are doing it. ~ every second episode


I've been advocating for a while a theory where the players aren't that different from the NPCs, or rather the NPCs not so different from the players.

its weird for NPCs to know "game rules" like a cooldown or level-up system... or even a health bar, especially since they don't know anything about adventurers and they are an enigma to them
the first ~12 episodes made sure of that.

[Buffalobiian]

its weird for NPCs to know "game rules" like a cooldown or level-up system... or even a health bar, especially since they don't know anything about adventurers and they are an enigma to them
the first ~12 episodes made sure of that

That is very true, which was why my initial stance was that NPCs shouldn't be able to level up and learn spells like adventurers could, but instead be automatically granted spell access through promotions and game-built systems. Everything's kind of blurred now.

I didn't think that NPCs could use a HUD interface like humans could. Now I'm not quite sure. Rudy's apparently got one anyway, but they don't really have to use it. With all tasks being available motion-based, it's just a stats monitor now.

[Kraco]

I don't think so, that would be rather absurd.
given the fact how minorin manages the status of each player

I think that's more like in a regular game, where you can select players or NPCs as targets for healing spells and such. It doesn't seem to me like the players have everybody's health bars visible all the time, either. I imagine that would get quite distracting. The field monitors or operators, or whatever they are talking about, seem to open a bunch of windows to monitor the group's status. But it could be that they just select the players (or NPCs) nearby for that.

But then again, I suppose it could be possible to add whoever you want in a group. It would be a jolly function in an MMO, even if it had no other purpose but to be able to quickly open those windows or send a message to everybody. However, I'm not so sure that's enough for telepathy. In a more prominent scenes they have stated you can only make a phone call to people who you have on your friend list. Rudy clearly didn't qualify for that. I'm afraid I don't remember scenes where they would have talked to Rudy telepathically, either, but that could be because I generally find the kids so boring I only watch their struggles with half a brain. When I rewatched the show, I kept skipping their scenes...

[Xelbair]

That is very true, which was why my initial stance was that NPCs shouldn't be able to level up and learn spells like adventurers could, but instead be automatically granted spell access through promotions and game-built systems. Everything's kind of blurred now.

I didn't think that NPCs could use a HUD interface like humans could. Now I'm not quite sure. Rudy's apparently got one anyway, but they don't really have to use it. With all tasks being available motion-based, it's just a stats monitor now.

Have we seen him using status menu even once?
have we heard him communicating with someone else via telepathy?

[Buffalobiian]

Have we seen him using status menu even once?
have we heard him communicating with someone else via telepathy?

We haven't seen him use the status menu. I assume he had something like that since he was explaining things about Orb of Lava being his most powerful spell and it having a cast/cool-down of 2/18 seconds. Given that he didn't have a pocket-watch, I assumed he had something to monitor his spells with. It's not fact though.

As for telepathy, in the latest episode 10:00minutes in, Minori tells Rudy via telepathy to keep his output down, and he answers back! She's at least 300m away.

[Kraco]

As for telepathy, in the latest episode 10:00minutes in, Minori tells Rudy via telepathy to keep his output down, and he answers back! She's at least 300m away.

Hmm... Now that I try to remember back to it, something like that indeed happened. I think this story's consistency isn't quite perfect and the author makes small mistakes like that. Unless I misjudged and KrayZ33 is correct: The groups are a full game entity of their own, following their own, separate rules, for example allowing telepathy different from the usual player-player contact list communication. But even so it would be quite strange an NPC could be added to such a group list yet not on the friend list.

The latest ep had Shiroe and the merchant guild dude go over the larger squad tactics and their talk surely left me with an impression it was important that each group had somebody (the squad leader?) who had a contact in the headquarters, plus some members also had friends in other squads they could communicate with. Otherwise they couldn't easily coordinate the actions of the whole army.

[NeoCybercoin]

I can't remember but did Rudy ever start a telepathic link with another or was he always on the receiving end? If the latter than it means that the people of the land don't have that ability and need a adventurer to start the link.

[Ryllharu]

Have we seen him using status menu even once?
have we heard him communicating with someone else via telepathy?
He knows his own level somehow too. Or is damn good at bluffing it.

I think Rudy has some major advantages in the "pretending to be an adventurer" department by being a mage. We've seen other mages use "window" magic, ones that are definitely NPCs. It probably wouldn't be as easy to fool other people if he was a guardian class or DPS class like Naotsugu or Akatsuki.

[Kraco]

Rudy definitely spent a lot of time in Akiba. He would have heard the real players talk about all kinds of incomprehensible things. Being a good actor, he would copy the mannerism, thinking it would take him closer to being an adventurer, despite only had a vague idea of what's going on. Thus, he would have spoken about levels and such even if they were only his own estimates.

I haven't played any MMORPGs so I wouldn't really know, but wouldn't they also have NPCs giving quests where you have to be of a certain level to qualify? Maybe there would also be merchants whose wares would partially depend on the players' level. If that was the case in Elder Tales, then great many NPCs would know of levels. It would be as natural to them as talking about age in years.

[fireheart]

I don't really see a problem, I mean there are mmos out there where you can add certain npcs to your party, not to mention that Shiroe stretched and emphasized that this isn't the Elder Tales that they knew and that they're not npcs. Also I don't think I've ever played an mmo where you have to be friends in order to add someone to the party.

As for Rudy knowing own skills, how is that weird? The other mage pulled out a ton of windows when explaining the different kinds of magic etc to Shiroe so it seems reasonable that other people of the land can do the same. It's also the most logical conclusion if you think about food, they've stated that food all taste the same when cooked through the menu and we know from their trip to the castle in Eastel when they talked about their chefs that they've started cooking without the menu since it taste differently. Marie talked about the people of the land also wanting to eat good food, so someone has to cook food for the people of the land before all of this, so how did all of them cook before when food all tasted the same if not through the menu?

As for the telepathy in the latest episode my guess is that they're talking through party chat, if Rudy is already in the party he should automatically get connected. After all Minori talks to most of her party and since we don't see her calling each and every member one by one when she has something to say the logical explanation would be a party chat, it'd be very impractical otherwise.

As for levels, monsters have levels why can't npcs? I don't know if I'm just making stuff up now but for some reason I remember them talking about how npcs can't level up to be as strong as adventures so that their level cap is lower than adventures, take it with a big grain of salt as I can't remember where they said it and I don't feel like rewatching every episode right now.

[Kraco]

As for levels, monsters have levels why can't npcs? I don't know if I'm just making stuff up now but for some reason I remember them talking about how npcs can't level up to be as strong as adventures so that their level cap is lower than adventures, take it with a big grain of salt as I can't remember where they said it and I don't feel like rewatching every episode right now.

It wouldn't even matter if they had talked about such a thing because it's incorrect anyway: the named knights did exist and they were apparently very tough, and on the other hand, like you said yourself, this isn't the same game anymore. The adventures knew next to nothing about NPCs anyway (and vice versa), so they were hardly the best experts to ponder about the NPCs' potential in this new environment.

[shinta|hikari]

The party vs friend list difference actually makes a lot of sense.

[Kraco]

Episode 20 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=523363)




- - - - - - -




Well, damn. Just when it finally started for real, the action also ended already. It looks like this never was much of an action show on the most basic level. I suppose all the politics, conspiracy, and other such episodes should have revealed that, but I kept hoping against all odds. At least we got a few scenes of Crusty in bloodlust and the princess staring at him in wonder. Watching those two is one of the best parts of this show, so I hope we will still see plenty of them, now coloured with the princess knowing what he's really like.

While I'd have liked to see more action, and especially fights that had required some effort, it ought to be interesting to see how the petty nobles will now react as well.

Shiroe really was an archmage to pull off such a spell as his first custom spell.

[MFauli]

Not sure what that contract means for the future. I´m a bit confused about what the limits of these contracts is. "By signing this contract, Rundle Haus Code will be granted invincibility". Would that work? Or what is it that Shiroe can make happen?

The lack of action sucks, yes. We need a return of PvP-battles, because nothing else seems to require any effort by these high level-adventurers. Maybe once everyone finds out about the memory loss from "dying", PvP will retain some of its meaning to the "players". We´re desperately in need for antagonists, true villains.

My biggest hope is that, despite what we know so far, enemies are revealed to not to be what they seemed to be in the past game, too. Like, being way more intelligent, having feelings, and eco-structure, social behavior and such. Thus making it morally difficult to keep slaying them.

[Buffalobiian]

"By signing this contract, Rundle Haus Code will be granted invincibility". Would that work? Or what is it that Shiroe can make happen?

But invincibility doesn't exist in their world, so for a contract to grant that someone would have to invent invincibility first. What Shiroe did was force a class change (or in this case, grant a sub-class), which was more within the realms of possibility.

[Archangel]

I really liked this episode, it's cool how they're exploring this world and finding new ways to make it work

[MFauli]

I really liked this episode, it's cool how they're exploring this world and finding new ways to make it work

That´s why real mmorpgs all suck. They advertise it as YOUR adventure, individual, unique experience and all, but it all comes down to a generic grind that every player goes through in the exact same manner.

[David75]

That´s why real mmorpgs all suck. They advertise it as YOUR adventure, individual, unique experience and all, but it all comes down to a generic grind that every player goes through in the exact same manner.

Because it proves to be an easy and efficient way to get money from players...

[KrayZ33]

That´s why real mmorpgs all suck. They advertise it as YOUR adventure, individual, unique experience and all, but it all comes down to a generic grind that every player goes through in the exact same manner.

there are MMOs out there that give you the freedom to decide what you want to do.
EVE online comes into mind, and Everquest Next is a game I have high hopes for too in that regard

[MFauli]

there are MMOs out there that give you the freedom to decide what you want to do.
EVE online comes into mind, and Everquest Next is a game I have high hopes for too in that regard

The freedom to make my own rules and my own gameplay-mechanics? I doubt it.

[KrayZ33]

for the "my own rules" part, yes, for the other part - thats just ridiculous and its not like shiroe did something like that.
he added the adventure subclass to rudy because the game allowed him too.
if he can make up stuff like that he should start offering quests by contract and add +10000^3 xp (or whatever is enough to reach max level) to everyone who solves the quests
or add the summoner+mage class onto himself

[Munsu]

I'm 10 episodes in, and I didn't care much for this series as it began, but little by little it's been growing on me. Really liking it right now.

[exglitch67]

for the "my own rules" part, yes, for the other part - thats just ridiculous and its not like shiroe did something like that.
he added the adventure subclass to rudy because the game allowed him too.
if he can make up stuff like that he should start offering quests by contract and add +10000^3 xp (or whatever is enough to reach max level) to everyone who solves the quests
or add the summoner+mage class onto himself

I agree he should explore the possibilities of adding different sub-classes to himself and his closest comrades but watching the episode again, he didn't actually give anything to Rudy. It was actually a status granted by the "guild". I think that is a strong distinction because there might be limits to what guilds can "grant" as a reward to members. As for contract quests with EXP rewards, I guess its possible but don't forget he used some pretty rare items to achieve that magic. He probably does not have an unlimited supply of ink and paper. One of the many reasons he wants to keep the contract a secret more thank likely.

Also last thought on the different sub-classes....since they are all level 90 (level cap) could they take advantage of other skills without the ability to level up? Maybe the first step is finding away around the level cap.

Edit: Words

[Buffalobiian]

Also last thought on the different sub-classes....since they are all level 90 (level cap) could they take advantage of other skills without the ability to level up? Maybe the first step is finding away around the level cap.

Depends on how their levelling system goes I suppose - whether you are awarded points when you level up, which lets you improve the skills you choose, or whether skills themselves automatically level up with use, allowing you to build other skills that haven't been maxxed out even though you can't actually level up your character overall.

Serara's household skills sound like it should be the latter.

[Kraco]

Also last thought on the different sub-classes....since they are all level 90 (level cap) could they take advantage of other skills without the ability to level up? Maybe the first step is finding away around the level cap.

The toughest guys, that we know of, are all level 90, which was the previous level cap. However, the reason why so many players were online to be sucked into this game world was the expansion that was just released. It also raised the level cap. The whole reason for the exp potion ordeal were some level 90s, who were competing to reach level 91 by using any means available.

[NeoCybercoin]

The fact that Shiroe pulled a stunt like that and worked only means that the game has a whole new bunch of rules that nobody knows about yet.

[Kraco]

The fact that Shiroe pulled a stunt like that and worked only means that the game has a whole new bunch of rules that nobody knows about yet.

It's their reality now, so I suppose there should be laws now, not rules. Physical laws & magical laws. That would be far more interesting than only adding a few more things to the list of rules dictating what's possible. After all, laws of nature merely tell what's impossible somewhere beyond the horizon, otherwise leaving it up to the people to do whatever their imagination can come up with.

[exglitch67]

The toughest guys, that we know of, are all level 90, which was the previous level cap. However, the reason why so many players were online to be sucked into this game world was the expansion that was just released. It also raised the level cap. The whole reason for the exp potion ordeal were some level 90s, who were competing to reach level 91 by using any means available.

Completely forgot about that.... I think buff may also be correct in that sub-classes like "House keeper" and "Scribe" maybe able to be leveled just by use, without requiring characters to actually level up. Adding a different class tree however like "Enchanter" + "Sorcerer" would have to be done by leveling up I would expect.

I thought the entire point of the show to this point was that there was magic that could change the "Laws" of the world (assuming both elder tale & reality) and the Sage guy was investigating that specific magic class. Personally I think he gave Shiroe enough information to make a world class spell so he could observe the outcome. In fact he just made Shiroe invent a way to make People of the Land immortal.... The Sage is probably up to no good. Of course he could of just facilitated for the sake of observation.

[KrayZ33]

imo: the sage is some kind of game-guide... to introduce new mechanics to the players

[Xelbair]

I think that Shiroe exploited something akin to bug - only adventurers(players) can be guild members, so by making a high grade contract to add someone to guild, he used that rule in reverse - he is in guild, therefore he must be an adventurer.

I'm 75% sure that he wants Shiroe to be his successor, and casting world-class magic takes your life away.

[Buffalobiian]

There's no reason that it should use your life force is there? As in is it just a hunch or do you see something that don't?

[Munsu]

I'm all caught up now. Seems like this is a 25 episode series, and we're at 20 right now. I do hope this gets a second season because I think there's plenty more to explore in this world.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 21 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=525573)


----------------------------------




















Well at least it's not Akatsuki getting bogged down over the whole revival thing. Minori can waver all she wants about the way Shiroe does things, but that can't happen to Akatsuki since her devotion is character-defining. Interestingly, the Izumo Knights are "Precursors". It could simply mean that they were the previous saviors, but the choice of words makes them sound like an ingredient for creating adventurers.

The story teller was definitely a mage belonging to the same type of order that the "male mage" is from, but whether they're in this together I can't say.

[MFauli]

You know, Nyanta has to be one huge, creepy nerd. Keeping up his "-nya" thing and hanging out with a little girl all the time. Having that said, I´d like to see a situation where Nyanta shows us his serious side, losing his permanent cool.

That female ... mage (?) was interesting for sure. Maybe she´s the one who also used world-class magic? Or she´s just like the male mage, as Buff said.

While this precursor-talk sounds like some exciting mystery, I find it hard to actually get excited. Because no matter what, the fact remains that this world is just a computer-generated game world - it will always rank below the real world, so whatever the precursors are, they were not some awesome "first generation adventurers". At best they´re some sort of program or admin group or beta testers or whatever. That´s why any talk about Eastal´s past is boring to me, it doesn´t amount to much.

Also, hope we get to see some real romance here between Shiroe and Akatsuki, and Rundel and Izuzu.

[Ryllharu]

I'm disgusted that the end of the episode, and certainly the preview, is hinting at a love triangle (of sorts) developing between Shiroe and Akatsuki and Minori. I already hate Minori, not need to help it!


The story teller was definitely a mage belonging to the same type of order that the "male mage" is from, but whether they're in this together I can't say.
It is far more likely she is of the elf clan that cursed the world originally. They even gave you an appropriate flashback of the story so you could see the similarities in her hair and general proportions.

@MFauli: Nyanta is a true gentleman. There's no chance between him and Serara because he's not a creepy pedo, but he is precisely the type of person that would escort a young lady at social events.

[MFauli]

But he´s still a freak for going through with his "-nya"-thingy, even when they´re all in a really serious situation. :>

[Kraco]

Well at least it's not Akatsuki getting bogged down over the whole revival thing. Minori can waver all she wants about the way Shiroe does things, but that can't happen to Akatsuki since her devotion is character-defining.

I don't think Minori is wavering at all. She's worried and shocked people hold so dim view of Shiroe. That's naturally all Shiroe's own fault, although he might not have ever thought about it (he knows he's not overly social, but he might not have realised in his new position it could become a problem). Who knows, Minori might have realised it. Perhaps she would like Shiroe to become a bit more sociable so that folks wouldn't consider him such a gray eminence.

Looks like his guild is slowly growing, whether he wanted or not.


The story teller was definitely a mage belonging to the same type of order that the "male mage" is from, but whether they're in this together I can't say.

Where did she get her info from, though? Do they have some kind of clairvoyance skill? My thought was that she was from the other adventurer city they mentioned, where the other spell was detected, and might indeed be working together with Regan. Perhaps they (there might be more than these two) have some plans for adventurers and world class spells.

[Buffalobiian]

She was surveying somehow. Clairvoyance sounds about right. Not sure if she's just some NPC mage or elf (like Ryll mentioned), or if she's a creepy sysadmin monitoring this game.

[shinta|hikari]

Finally some Akatsuki screentime, and more to come.

I was surprised with the Minori romance development. I had thought that it was more of a sibling relationship between Shiroe and her, but that line at the end of the episode was clearly an attempted confession.

I really want Akatsuki to be happy, and that requires Shiroe to stop being the dull shounen protagonist that he is. I don't hate Minori, but if it came to a contest between her and Akatsuki, I'd be fine with Minori dying in a ditch somewhere.

[Munsu]

I was surprised with the Minori romance development. I had thought that it was more of a sibling relationship between Shiroe and her, but that line at the end of the episode was clearly an attempted confession.

Or an attempt to mess with the viewers in a "wow she's confessing...NOT" kind of way.

In any case, this was the episode that I've least liked from this series so far, overall boring.

[MFauli]

It´s just a game. Shiroe can have both of them. (2 loli = 1 girl of normal height!)

[Kraco]

Episode 22 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=527963)



- -- - - - - - - - -






I was surprised with the Minori romance development. I had thought that it was more of a sibling relationship between Shiroe and her, but that line at the end of the episode was clearly an attempted confession.

Looks like it took Minori herself a while and a serious impact to realise it. Not that anything short of a full confession in unambiguous words preferably written on paper would make Shiroe himself understand such things. It's a miracle the dude is supposed to be a master tactician and strategist yet understands so little of human relationships and motivations. I guess he has maxed out his luck skill and simply makes excellent guesses all the time since surely he can't be judging the opponents' intentions. In a sense Minori was good luck for Akatsuki as it looked like she was getting nowhere with her hesitation before competition appeared.

One of the weakest episodes so far, no doubt. It's like the show gave up with the season nearing the end and nothing's going on anymore.

Now that Crusty and the Princess aren't appearing anymore, I realise all the more how much I enjoyed their twisted relationship.

[MFauli]

Boring episode. We didnt even get a confession.

How old is everyone again? Wasn´t Shiroe 20+? Minorin looks like she´s 12 at most. :/

[lelouch]

Three comments:

1. Fat Shiroe is probably what he looks like IRL.
2. Isn't Minori in like middle school? Da fuq?
3. These past two episodes were horid. Next episode doesn't look much better :(

[Munsu]

Disappointing episode, don't care for the Minori drama. Let's move on please.

I'll say this though, the episode had some legit funny moments, but overall boring as heck.

[NeoCybercoin]

I hope it's not going to become like this for the remainder of episodes.

[shinta|hikari]

I actually liked this episode because of all the cute Akatsuki screentime. Minori can just die in a ditch for all I care.

[MFauli]

2. Isn't Minori in like middle school? Da fuq?

She looks younger to me. Or maybe that´s because I´m used to big breasted middle school girls starring in hentai doujins, could be :>

[KrayZ33]

I couldn't care less for minori and akatsuki in this show

no matter how I look at it, both pairings are awkward and the show shouldn't focus on it.

[Kraco]

She looks younger to me. Or maybe that´s because I´m used to big breasted middle school girls starring in hentai doujins, could be :>

They said she's a middle schooler in this episode. So, that's what she is, although I agree on her looking like an elementary schooler, just like her brat of a brother. The sooner Shiroe turns her down, the better. The last thing Shiroe needs to his already questionable repuration is being called a lolicon. He would have enough trouble explaining Akatsuki as it is, but at least she's of age and a level 90 assassin and could thus shut any mouths herself. Minori, however, is a kid and will be for years, nothing to explain, nothing to deny.

During the latter half of the show I started to care only about the Crusty + Princess pair, to be honest. The dynamics are so brilliant.

[Kraco]

Episode 23 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=530509)







- -- - - - - - - -




Aside from the Crusty + Princess pair that I enjoy every moment of, I began to seriously doubt this show during this episode. However, it seemed all to be nothing but a clever plot of the author. In a sense it was actually masterfully executed to make it nicely underline the fact Shiroe or nobody else noticed anything, just like the audience, before the attack was well underway. Although to be honest one episode would have been enough, with less of Minori. As it is, we only have two eps left.

Who knows what the attack will be all about, though. At least the leader of the villains looked intelligent, not like a brute.

[NeoCybercoin]

So from what I gather they are attacking then financially? Disrupt their economy, then the new enemy will offer them a loan and have the Adventurers work for them in order to pay it off. That way you got an army of Adventurers who are forced to do your bidding since they do want to save their city. Should be interesting to see some Spice and Wolf economies in here.

[Kraco]

No, I don't think it's that. Such an approach would require two things: Akiba to be a much more wholesome economy, or rather as dependent on a working economy and trade system as real world is, and on the other hand it would take much longer. Now Akiba is only using small-scale trading to better the quality of life for the adventurers (and NPCs living in Akiba). However, they don't really depend on it. Well, the adventurers anyway, the people of the land might since they can't just hit the road and adventure.

I think the point here was that a good deal of the people of the land present in Akiba aren't who they are supposed to be. What they are, though, I don't know, but they can't do even a little math so they aren't too civilised. I guess they are soldiers or just ruffians if calling them soldiers is praising them too much. Moles in any case, probably with some sort of a mission that makes the circumstances really favourable to the invaders. Although I really fail to see what the mission might be, considering how overpowering the adventurers are, being able to respawn and everything.

I hope it's something better than threatening to disrupt the festival by having disturbers of peace everywhere. That would be too anticlimactic. If the enemy boss is really crafty, I suppose the goal might be to do something that will make the round table lose control.

[Buffalobiian]

The enemy is totally the guys from Minami trying to take over Akiba. They're not adventurers, but People. If they're People, then they were somehow convinced to fight for the the Minami Adventurers. What doesn't make sense is why they're intentionally stirring up trouble if their main goal is infiltration.

The plethora of Akatsuki bits over the past few weeks kept it going.

[Kraco]

The enemy is totally the guys from Minami trying to take over Akiba. They're not adventurers, but People. If they're People, then they were somehow convinced to fight for the the Minami Adventurers. What doesn't make sense is why they're intentionally stirring up trouble if their main goal is infiltration.

Obviously they are done with infiltration already. Now that you mentioned it, I suppose one possibility could be that a single adventurer with their henchmen has managed to take control of Minami, more or less (an evil version of Shiroe) and could be planning to add Akiba to their regime by making Round Table lose face and offering the Akiba residents a "better" choice.

We have two eps left, so I'm not exactly expecting a too marvelous plot from this arc. Unless they end the show in the middle of an arc. That would be novel.

[MFauli]

Episode 24 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=532750)
------------------

THAT CLIFFHANGER!

Better episode than the past couple ones, but still not that exciting. Except for the end. Now that is the sort of clash I wanna see. The hero mastermind meeting the villain mastermind. From how openly Lord Marves shows himself and how small-town his attack against the princess appears, I hope he´s not just some lowly minion. Shiroe needs to win, but let Lord Marves have a part-win, too. This anime needs a proper villain, and an equal thinker-type like Shiroe would be a perfect fit.

And then this qeen is super hot. Sorry, Akatsuki, you lose.

[Kraco]

Episode 24 - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=532750)




- - - - - -




Bloody Minori. I couldn't anymore stand the absurd amount of screen time she gets for no reason whatsoever, and had to skip parts of the episode. But forgetting those annoying parts, this managed to be a mildly interesting episode. It's as if the enemy knew beforehand Shiroe would be the opponent and thus no plan was better than a solid plan. Although it would have been more impactful if it had develop a bit more and had some false leads for Shiroe. But I suppose that would have been overdramatization since I still fail to see how this could lead to anything life changing. If it ends up changing something like preview suggests, I don't think this disturbance necessarily has much to do with it. This was more like a minor scuffle between people of the land groups with the Akiba being caught in the middle of it.

Looks like Crusty isn't there to save his princess every time. But of course if he had been there, we probably wouldn't have seen much drama. One funny thing is that it looked like the foreign noble intended to discredit the princess as well, but in reality she doesn't need to do anything but smile, look pretty, and say she's sorry, and the adventurers will automatically forgive her. At least the male ones.

[MFauli]

Episode 24 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=532750)
------------------

THAT CLIFFHANGER!

Better episode than the past couple ones, but still not that exciting. Except for the end. Now that is the sort of clash I wanna see. The hero mastermind meeting the villain mastermind. From how openly Lord Marves shows himself and how small-town his attack against the princess appears, I hope he´s not just some lowly minion. Shiroe needs to win, but let Lord Marves have a part-win, too. This anime needs a proper villain, and an equal thinker-type like Shiroe would be a perfect fit.

And then this qeen is super hot. Sorry, Akatsuki, you lose.

Quoting myself because that guy above me buried my posting :(

[lelouch]

Was really hoping for Crusty to fly in and knock some heads with some good animation like in SAO. If the writers of LH paired with the animators / soundtrack of SAO, this would be a great show.

[Kraco]

Was really hoping for Crusty to fly in and knock some heads with some good animation like in SAO.

Yeah, I know I would have enjoyed immensely such a scene, but I suppose it was better this way: The princess wouldn't have much character growth if she was saved by Crusty (or somebody else) immediately every time. Shiroe did appear, but he came late, allowing Lenessia to cope on her own for a while. Maybe this will allow Shiroe to get rid of some of his evil rep as well.

[Munsu]

Are People of the Land also beholden to the rule of no fighting in cities?

[Archangel]

Are People of the Land also beholden to the rule of no fighting in cities?
No, but the knights won't come to their rescue either.

[NeoCybercoin]

Yeah from what I understand it's to stop players fighting players in town.

[MFauli]

I mean, at some point Shiroe will find out that there´s a new p2w (pay-to-win)-system, access his real world bank account and just pay for his victory. Dat twist, eh? :>

[shinta|hikari]

They cannot fight in town? Then what is the point of the tension in that room then? All involved were adventurers.

If they CAN fight in town, Akatsuki should have just offed the Ryuk dude without showing herself. The politics are interesting, but it is made superficial by the fact that Crusty can kill an entire army by himself, and there are a lot of (immortal) people like him. Power struggles are only interesting if there is no absolute power that can be wielded so easily. Influence, money, nobility, or whatever are only artificial replacements for martial superiority. If you have an absolute edge on that aspect, the former assets are rendered meaningless.

Akatsuki should just shove her naked crotch in Shiroe's face so he would finally get what she wants in their relationship.

[Kraco]

It's clear it wasn't Shiroe's intention to build a tyranny, so it goes without saying they don't consider abuse of power the first solution to problems, despite having the resources to solve everything external with it. His intention, that the other members of the round table seem to agree on, is to build normal relationships with the surrounding people of the land. If they relied too much on power, I don't think they would easily win the trust of all the adventurers either. I don't believe the players at large still consider the round table a real government with authority the same way they tought of the governmental system of Japan back in RL. The majority probably views the round table as a gathering of guild leaders who handle foreign affairs and laid down some internal codes of conduct that majority could accept and thus live more easily in Akiba. But that's still no different from joining a random web forum and honouring the posting rules, more or less. Maybe the round table members are more like the moderators of Akiba in their minds.

Besides, this whole incident, like I said earlier, is so far largely between people of the land with Akiba and the adventurers being used as tools in the middle of it. That might naturally change, and the preview suggested as much, but there's not really awfully much for Shiroe to be concerned about right now, certainly not to the point of resorting to assassinations. He could even view this as a fire drill. Who knows what might happen in the future, so it's good to have some experience in handling public disturbances and such.

[shinta|hikari]

That's not my point. I am saying that the suspense is superficial because they aren't really in danger, like you said.

[Kraco]

That's not my point. I am saying that the suspense is superficial because they aren't really in danger, like you said.

Isn't that the thing we everybody discussed when the show launched? Since people can't die, or rather can afford to die a dozen times before they lose something they would really regret, the suspense is necessarily somewhat lessened. However, my point, although I admit I could have misinterpreted you, is that when Shiroe, and the round table, set a certain kind of goal, they can still fail to reach or uphold that goal. So, there would be suspense there. If the round table collapses, Akiba would again be an anarchy to some degree, although the guilds, especially the biggers one, might still look after themselves. But it would be bad for non-guild members, members of random smaller guilds, and the resident or visiting people of the land. It seems like discrediting round table was one of the goals of this attack.

[shinta|hikari]

What was discussed before was the lack of depression or suspense from combat because they cannot die.

What I am saying is political struggles against PotL seem like role play because they hold absolute martial power.

[Kraco]

What I am saying is political struggles against PotL seem like role play because they hold absolute martial power.

Nah, that might make it more difficult, in fact. Both sides know adventurers hold the upper hand in martial power, however, for now the adventurers don't want to rely on that. They want normal relations with the surrounding people, not "this is how it will be, or we will raze your cities" kind of relations. But that tension still remains there, from the NPC's point of view. So, the goal of normal relations might fail more easily. Of course it wouldn't endanger adventurers but it'd be a failure nonetheless. But if you must think of everything in terms of military strength, then naturally you are correct. But not once during this show has that actually played such a big role. Right now is the first time people of the land might be threatening Akiba and, as it happens, it's not a military threat.

[shinta|hikari]

I am quite annoyed by that Ryuk dude. It is as if he does not understand how small and insignificant he is compared to the adventurers.

[Kraco]

Episode 25 Final - HS (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=534870)





- - - - - - - -






Hohoo... I guess this didn't sell as bad as some forum posters in the internets were telling, since the end of this ep already announced S2 in the fall. I somehow would find it hard to believe merely boosting the LN sales would make them animate another season because lots and lots of series haven't shown such behavior.

I'm kind of divided in opinion about Shiroe leaving Akiba. It's good for the adventure, hopefully especially action, which this show was sorely lacking, but on the other hand I fear the Crusty & Princess pair will disappear when the focus moves away from Akiba. Shiroe is so totally uninterested in women that I kept losing interest in Akatsuki as a consequence. Crusty was handling the princess deliciously in comparison.

No idea what the fox woman will amount to. Obviously she's not running her domain poorly because otherwise adventurers would have fled the place, possibly flocking to Akiba. Since they aren't, she should have lots of power and intel as a consequence, just like she was advertising to Shiroe. She's pretty shady otherwise, though, with the stupid plot against Akiba. If that was all to show her power and make Shiroe want to leave the place to join her, she's no master of socialising with people. She probably used ugly methods to make Minami hers.

[Archangel]

SEASON 2 BITCHEZZZZZZZZZZZ!!

Fuck, i wish they had managed the pacing better though. That second part needed a whole episode just for itself. Definitely looking forward to another season though, this was all kinds of good.

[Buffalobiian]

Leaving Akiba is the correct decision. As much as I like watching Crusty's fight a show and its characters have to stick to their aims to make it worthwhile. In this case, Log Horizon was all about "seeing a new horizon before anybody else". You can't stay in one place if you're pushing boundaries unless you're a researcher inventing items in a lab.

In fact the real bad about Log Horizon leaving is that we'll continue to get more Minori.

[MFauli]

Somehow I didnt like the sudden introduction of a villainous other player in the west. It may have been known before, but it never felt like something of significance. Its just too easy of an anti-pole to build a plot around. But maybe Im too cautious.

What season 2 definitely needs, though, is a firm pairing with Shiroe and SOMEONE else. I dont care if it´s Minori, Akatsuki or, the best, the vixen girl. But I for sure hate harem anime, where the hero is super popular but too dense to ever initiate something of substance. I can stomach it for one season, but not for another. Give me some real romance.

[lelouch]

Not sure if it's because I watched this episode baked, but I didn't understand a single sentence this episode. Can you IMAGINE if people tried talking like that in real life? Like wtf was going on in that conversation with the fox woman? Like... wha... just..what?

[Kraco]

Not sure if it's because I watched this episode baked, but I didn't understand a single sentence this episode. Can you IMAGINE if people tried talking like that in real life? Like wtf was going on in that conversation with the fox woman? Like... wha... just..what?

That conversation very much suggested Shiroe has actually been doing some heavy research during the many, many times we have seen him just sitting behind his desk while the other characters were out partying. We just didn't know what he was doing, but now it's clear he was researching the world quite deeply. I guess much of the world info was also from the times when the game was still a game, and I guess from conversations with the NPC magician or other NPCs that weren't included in the episode. I don't really mind, to be honest. Shiroe is called an archmage, so it makes sense he knows a lot.

[Buffalobiian]

Naruha is the complete opposite kind of girl that Akatsuki is. Their only common point is their desire for Shiroe. Since I'm greenlighting Akatsuki, Naruha gets the cut in my books. She's pretty sexy, but that constant lying and deception is simply too much for my mind to handle.

[Archangel]

I vote for open harem ending, let Shiroe get all the bitches.

[Kraco]

I vote for open harem ending, let Shiroe get all the bitches.

Huh? He's not interested even in a single bitch, so what would he do with many? He's even weaker than bloody Tolove-Ru's Rito who's also impotent, but at least is technically in love with somebody even if it leads to absolutely nowhere. The only things Shiroe loves are his own plans, his own intelligence. That's why Crusty+Princess was so splendid because you could imagine Crusty is actually chasing Lenessia, albeit with a bit of courtesy since she's a genuine princess.

[MFauli]

I vote for open harem ending, let Shiroe get all the bitches.

I really don´t care (a lot) about who he gets together with. Just don´t make me go through this tired trope of every girl admiring the hero, but the hero never realizing it until the end of the story.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't know.. Shiroe has appreciated the support Akatsuki's given him, but as far as admiration and inspiration goes he seems really attached to the monk/shrine girl from his Tea Party days.

[Kraco]

I don't know.. Shiroe has appreciated the support Akatsuki's given him, but as far as admiration and inspiration goes he seems really attached to the monk/shrine girl from his Tea Party days.

Considering he hasn't called her, isn't it probable she's not in game? If he indeed is interested in her on a personal level, not just admiring what she taught him back then.

[Buffalobiian]

Considering he hasn't called her, isn't it probable she's not in game? If he indeed is interested in her on a personal level, not just admiring what she taught him back then.

I think they said that she hasn't logged in since the Apocalypse happened.

[NeoCybercoin]

That makes me wonder though. Can people log in right now? I mean they can't log out but what's stopping others from logging in?

[Buffalobiian]

That makes me wonder though. Can people log in right now? I mean they can't log out but what's stopping others from logging in?

If people are able to log in right now, then they certainly haven't tried because Shiroe has no information on that, and I trust that guy to have the most up-to-date intel.

[Kraco]

It also depends on what's really going on. Back when we went through different theories, one was that in RL people are playing the game as if nothing strange happened, and the characters we are seeing now are copies of the players who happened to be online when the apocalypse happened. If it's something closer to SAO, then I doubt authorities would allow any more people to log in, at least not in the developed countries.

[Ryllharu]

[HorribleSubs] Log Horizon S2 - 01 (http://nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=605220)



-------------------------


This episode jumped around like crazy. The first part was obviously a season preview, and then the scene right before the ED was a timejump.

I have to admit that I don't really understand how Shiroe and the Round Table can have problems owning the Guild Hall, Cathedral, and other facilities is straining their resources when Nureha to the South-East appears to have none of these problems.

It also seems that Shiroe's old crush from the Debauchery Tea Party is still in the game?! Another threat for poor Akatsuki!


Minori is still as painful to watch as ever. I struggled deeply to not simply skip her scenes, short as they were.

How the hell is database still the OP?! Ugh.

[Kraco]

I didn't like the animation studio and character designer change. But I guess I'll get used to it.

I wish the financial situation had at least been explained a bit. Who are they paying all that money to in the first place? The Kunie clan? Why would they? Nominally for the Royal Guard functionality and the safe zone maintenance? It surely isn't NPC wages, that's for sure. I'd assume the money they lose is redistributed to the monster drops and dungeon chests, as that would make the most sense (to keep it in constant circulation). In any case the astronomical "rent" or "tax" must go to somewhere they can't easily deny, so it can't simply go to any NPC noble or the sort we saw a lot in the previous season. If they managed to raid'n'rob the place where the money disappears, wouldn't it mean monsters didn't anymore drop as much?

This episode was remarkably rushed and jumpy considering the previous season was full of episodes that hardly moved at all.

And yeah, poor Akatsuki. Her prospects don't look promising unless Shiroe's crush is already married or otherwise unavailable.

[David75]

Database isn't that bad for the OP, not the best title from Man with a mission, but ok.

I was also a bit lost in that ep and it didn't feel as good as first season because I didn't have time to be in context again.
Some shows are too cautious bringing their audience back into their universe. Here we've got the exact opposite, almost.

[MFauli]

database is cool

anyway, didnt last season end with the appearance of some furry queen? or am i mixing up a different anime here?

[Buffalobiian]

database is cool

anyway, didnt last season end with the appearance of some furry queen? or am i mixing up a different anime here?

I was pleasantly surprised to hear Database again. I don't find it to be a particularly good song, but it sure signals that I'm (supposed to be) watching the same Log Horizon again as before.

@MFauli: yes, that was the representative of the South.

[Ryllharu]

@MFauli: yes, that was the representative of the South.

I don't know how you misspell Manipulative Iron-Fisted Dictator as "representative".

And lest we forget she's also Shiroe's stalker, in this world and possibly also the real one.

[MFauli]

You´re both missspelling "Hot Furry Girl"

[MFauli]

episode 2 is out
-----------------

ugh, the episode started out so nicely that I thought we´d see the raid in this one. meh.

Just how difficult is money to obtain? Akatsuki should be one of the top-level, most famous players, yet she cannot buy the sword she wants? And it wouldn´t even be a really good sword, because those can only be gotten by finishing raids. strange.

Marietta was unsually hot in this episode.

[Kraco]

I'm starting to think Akatsuki is facing a problem similar in spirit to the one Guts had in the first portion of Berserk. She's only following Shiroe. Even the minor things she does on her own are kind of coloured by her thinking of Shiroe. Of course she's in love, but in this case it's only making the situation worse. Shiroe is treating her conveniently like a bodyguard and a tool, naturally also a friend since Shiroe likes his friends (though probably at a comfortable distance). Throughout the whole show we have seen Shiroe himself does whatever the heck he wants, which also gave him his nickname. As long as Akatsuki is doing nothing on her own, only following Shiroe no matter how much she hates the orders, like happened now, I doubt she will ever earn Shiroe's true respect, the kind of respect Shiroe might have for the monk class girl we have seen in the flashbacks a few times. In other words, Akatsuki should hit the road and find some adventures and undertakings that would build her character. She won't grow as long as she sticks to Shiroe's shadow. I guess she's not an overly big thinker, but there are still things she could do.

I liked how Massachusetts actually managed to surprise Shiroe by having Demi-glace join the raid.

[Kraco]

Episode 4 - HS (http://nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=614669)





- - - - - -



Akatsuki really is stupid. As much as I like her, there's no avoiding saying that. She laments the fact she has never been on a raid, yet she won't participate even when invited! Why? Probably because Shiroe didn't tell her to. It's a really sad vicious circle: Shiroe is denser than tungsten and only cares about his own plots, Akatsuki is suffering and would like to do something but won't as long as Shiroe doesn't give the order. And he never will because he wouldn't see Akatsuki's problem unless it was expressly told him in unambiguous words. Naturally right now he's not even in town. The others have pretty much guessed her problem but nobody says anything or advices her. They only keep her company as if she was some terminal disease patient in need of that sort of support. Why don't they tell her to forget the princess for a while and join a raid instead? Some friends they are.

Plenty of Lenessia in this episode, and theoretically I should have enjoyed it a lot, but to be honest she's totally boring without Crusty there to tease her. At least the impression I got from the previous ep's preview, that she would be dismayed by her inability to understand the adventurers, was wrong.

[Archangel]

Holy shit that was next level awful, there's literally never been a worse episode in either season.

The only relevant part to the whole thing were the last 30 seconds

[Buffalobiian]

At first I thought someone was going to buy Akatsuki a really expensive present, but now I think that was just Soujiro upgrading himself.

(Unless the PKer is the one holding the special katana, now that I think about it some more)

[Xelbair]

did you notice that body of killed girl did not disappear?

[MFauli]

All these "Im so unhappily in love with him, poor me"-episodes are so frustrating and boring to watch since they NEVER lead anywhere. Ffs, can we PLEASE have Shiroe and Akatsuki become a couple proper? I hate anime that tease a certain romance, but never go through with it or do it only at the series´ end. Cant bear anymore such episodes, ugh.

Also, am I the only one who thought that Akatsuki was totally ridiculed in terms of skills this episode? So many people noticed her while she was secretly observing others. Heck, pretty boy noticed her from 200m afar and she did NOT notice that she had been spotted. For an episode that tried to show Akatsuki´s desire to become stronger/better, it certainly achieved the opposite :/


did you notice that body of killed girl did not disappear?

Yeah, wtf. Unless the disappearance was just delayed for dramatic impact, that´s a game changer. And I dont know how to feel about it. I remember that I criticized the lack of death in this anime, saying that there´s no real sense of danger without it. Despite that, Log Horizon managed to convince me otherwise. And now that´s all being overturned? Bullshit. Hope we´ll get a proper explanation. While we´re at that, I could think of something: Maybe it´s somehow possible to turn adventurers into people of the land, just like Rudi was turned vice-versa. That way it´d be possible to actually kill.
If that´d be the case, then it´s safe to say the theories about everybody actually only existing inside the game anymore and NOT being connected via their real bodies is true.

[Kraco]

Is she even dead? She seemed to hold her salmon fighting skills in high regard, so it would be a bit underwhelming if a single sword cut emptied her pool of HP without an assassin technique. She called herself a second captain, so I'd imagine she's not any level 30 beginner.

[Archangel]

Why didn't she re-equip her gear anyway? Was that a legendary salmon with +600 attack?

[MFauli]

have wounded adventurerers always bleed before? That´s what was weird, too, the puddle of blood on the ground. I dont remember the first episode where was saw player killers. Was there blood, too?

[David75]

Is she even dead? She seemed to hold her salmon fighting skills in high regard, so it would be a bit underwhelming if a single sword cut emptied her pool of HP without an assassin technique. She called herself a second captain, so I'd imagine she's not any level 30 beginner.
We've heard twice she's level 90 right?
And yes, I also wondered why she waited to be slashed, instead of defending herself.

[Xelbair]

I am pretty sure that someone has found a way to kill an Adventurer.. permanently.