One Piece Episode 618

[Kraco]

Episode 618 - CCS-Speed (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=487099)





- - -- - - - -





I wonder how much Law is already regretting choosing Luffy as his ally. Not that he would have had awfully lots of alternatives, especially considering the timing, but I doubt that will stop regrets. He seems like an overly serious man, not that I could blame him if he was walking around heartless until now, and Luffy is the total opposite.

Looks like Franky doesn't need to go without a fight of his own, even if the enemies appeared very conveniently out of nowhere for him. Though this arc really hasn't offered challenging fights to that many people in general, which is just fine. It would feel artificial if there was a perfectly matched opponent for every member in every adventure.

[DarthEnderX]

So...the best day of Sanji's life would be the day he comes into contact with Baby 5.


Though this arc really hasn't offered challenging fights to that many people in general, which is just fine. It would feel artificial if there was a perfectly matched opponent for every member in every adventure.It never bothered me in every arc up until this point, where they did exactly that.

I don't like it like this. It makes the rest of the crew feel marginalized.

[Kraco]

It never bothered me in every arc up until this point, where they did exactly that.

Not true. This the second arc in a row without the matched opponents. The fishman island only gave Luffy a decent sparring partner, and even that was so-so because the opponent was such a bonehead (or is it cartilagehead since he was a sharkman). Of course before the time skip the Shabondy arc also hardly had such a clean setting either.

In fact I gladly prefer that one episode where Zoro finally stood up, saved Tashigi, and overpowered Monet over any generic fight. It was so bloody badass.

[DarthEnderX]

The fishman island only gave Luffy a decent sparring partner, and even that was so-so because the opponent was such a bonehead (or is it cartilagehead since he was a sharkman).Just because you didn't find them threatening doesn't mean Oda still didn't create a unique opponent for each of the Strawhats in that arc. They had names, personalities, unique abilities and they each went up against a specific member of the crew.

Contrast to this arc, where there were really only 3 villains, and one of them faced off against characters not even on the crew.

[Assertn]

Really, though, when was the last time Oda gave every strawhat their only worthy opponent? Baroque works? I'm trying to recall some newer arcs... I don't think Nami and Usopp had a dedicated opponent in Skypeia, and Usopp and Robin didn't in Water 7. In Thriller Bark, there were only 4 main villains, and in Shaboandy it was the sumo kid and Kizaru.

[UChessmaster]

Hody Jones?

[DarthEnderX]

Really, though, when was the last time Oda gave every strawhat their only worthy opponent? Baroque works? I'm trying to recall some newer arcs... I don't think Nami and Usopp had a dedicated opponent in Skypeia, and Usopp and Robin didn't in Water 7. In Thriller Bark, there were only 4 main villains, and in Shaboandy it was the sumo kid and Kizaru.There's a difference between 1 or 2 of the ten characters in the cast not having an opponent and only two characters having someone to fight.

And I wouldn't consider Shabondy to be the traditional One Piece story arc.

I consider the Mermaid Island arc to be the most recent arc with a full array of opponents. "worthy" is completely subjective.

[Assertn]

Hody Jones?

There are 6 members of the new fishmen pirate crew if you count Hyouzou + Wadatsumi, and 9 straw hats + Jinbei. Try again.


There's a difference between 1 or 2 of the ten characters in the cast not having an opponent and only two characters having someone to fight.

And I wouldn't consider Shabondy to be the traditional One Piece story arc.

I consider the Mermaid Island arc to be the most recent arc with a full array of opponents. "worthy" is completely subjective.

Well, everyone has had skirmishes in one form or another, if you go back to the Yeti Cool brothers, but I dunno, I guess I just don't feel the need to see everyone break off into 1v1 battles. They used to do that every goddamn arc leading up to Logue Town, and it felt a bit cheesy and repetitive to me.

[Kraco]

Well, everyone has had skirmishes in one form or another, if you go back to the Yeti Cool brothers, but I dunno, I guess I just don't feel the need to see everyone break off into 1v1 battles. They used to do that every goddamn arc leading up to Logue Town, and it felt a bit cheesy and repetitive to me.

Exactly. That's why I prefer this current trend of not only having clear 1v1 every time but also there being some other objectives. Like now the allience with Law and capture of Caesar. It seems like a more plausible way of becoming the Pirate King than randomly travelling from island to island beating bad guys. Even if the latter is more traditional shounen.

[DarthEnderX]

They used to do that every goddamn arc leading up to Logue Town, and it felt a bit cheesy and repetitive to me.I guess. Like I said, I feel like NOT doing it just ends up marginalizing a bunch of the crew.

I guess I just preferred it when every character to be expected to be awesome for at least a few episodes an arc. Instead of now, where some of them are relegated to doing nothing more than their usual running gag a few times while running around.

[Assertn]

I guess. Like I said, I feel like NOT doing it just ends up marginalizing a bunch of the crew.

I guess I just preferred it when every character to be expected to be awesome for at least a few episodes an arc. Instead of now, where some of them are relegated to doing nothing more than their usual running gag a few times while running around.

In about 90% of the arcs, Usopp and Nami rarely do anything more than their running gags.

[DarthEnderX]

In about 90% of the arcs, Usopp and Nami rarely do anything more than their running gags.That's not even remotely true. Usopp and Nami have to fight people all the time. They're always fighting the weakest enemies, but they have fights just the same.

[Kraco]

That's not even remotely true. Usopp and Nami have to fight people all the time. They're always fighting the weakest enemies, but they have fights just the same.

There's actually absolutely no reason for Nami to fight. She doesn't want to fight, she wants to get rich, navigate, get rich, draw maps, get rich, beat variable weather conditions, get rich, and see the whole world while getting rich.

In theory Usopp should want to fight since he's always telling his dream is to become a brave warrior of the seas, but that's not really his basic nature. He's a joker and comedian. He has undeniable master sharpshooter tendencies, but anybody can see he's not actually enjoying the prospect of fighting like Luffy or Zoro. In fact even the other tough guys like Sanji and Franky aren't really looking for fights. Sanji is a cook and wannabe conqueror of women, Franky is an engineer. Robin is a scientist and explorer. Brook is a musician. Chopper is a doctor.

All in all unless the situation forces them all to fight, like it oft has, it would be sufficient if only Luffy and Zoro got really tough guys to beat, since those two thrive in battles. The others have their own diverse interests that aren't blood and gore. The story hasn't altogether forgotten that ever, which is great.

[UChessmaster]

There's actually absolutely no reason for Nami to fight. She doesn't want to fight, she wants to get rich, navigate, get rich, draw maps, get rich, beat variable weather conditions, get rich, and see the whole world while getting rich.

If you go through that route, half the Strawhats have absolutely no reason to fight according to their role.

[Kraco]

If you go through that route, half the Strawhats have absolutely no reason to fight according to their role.

Exactly. The Straw hats aren't an overly typical pirate crew. They don't loot civilian settlements or ships. They aren't exactly heroes, but they are out there to do what they want to do and help people they want to help. What they want to do is often not fighting. Since their living doesn't depend on fighting, or threatening with violence, there's no reason for many of them to fight if they can help it. That's how it should be and I don't mind if the plot occasionally remembers it. It'd be useless for them to have fancy professions, expertise, interests, and dreams if it was all talk and they were only fighting machines marching from one battle to the next.

[DarthEnderX]

I agree that logically, half the Strawhats shouldn't even get in fights.

I also know that that would be boring and stupid. There's a reason why I love the supporting cast of One Piece and hate the supporting cast of DBZ. It's because the One Piece cast isn't useless in the fights that are the cornerstones of the series.

I neither need, nor want Nami to be anything like Bulma.

[Kraco]

That's essentially why I said they don't all need to get utmost death matches in every arc. There's something special about a character not really interested in fighting but having been forced to learn it, such as Nami, winning against a named opponent. I like such fights as much as the next viewer. But in fact they might be even better if they don't happen in every new place they visit. It's enough for me to get a few good fights and story progress. Unless it's indeed a situation and place where there's no avoiding it realistically.

Thus, I have no complaints since that's exactly how the show has been going on for a while.

[DarthEnderX]

The thing is though, all of those characters that have no interest in fighting have all independently come to the conclusion at some point in the series that they can't afford to be weak because it endangers the rest of them and holds them back.

Once a character comes to that conclusion, and takes steps to become strong enough to fight(which, as of the 2-year-skip, they ALL have) there's no reason for that character to ever spend an arc sitting on the sidelines.

You guys are making these proclamations about how these characters involvement should be, based on the characters they were are the start of the series. But presumably, they aren't those characters anymore. At least, Oda spent a lot of time trying to convince us that those characters have developed greatly.

Unfortunately, it's not actually amounting to anything.

[Kraco]

It's a crew of less than ten people in the New World and their captain is a man who enjoys making enemies out of the world government, local villains, the most nefarious pirates, shichibukai... You name it. It would be a veritable suicide not to gain as much fighting skills as they can whilst still staying true to their original interests. However, that doesn't mean they would all enjoy fighting or seek fights like Luffy & Zoro. Nor does it mean they would just uselessly sit on their hands whistling away. Even if it hasn't got so much attention lately, but Nami is still drawing her maps and studying strange weather phenomena. Sanji is trying new ingredients and recipes. Chopper is studying medicine and physiology as much as he can. Franky is developing and tinkering. Robin is exploring every ruin and remain of ancient times they come across.

It's a shounen fighting manga, so of course the focus is on fights and such, but like I said, I'm still happy all the other stuff making the characters who they are isn't completely forgotten. And no, I'm not making any proclamations about how things should be. I'm just stating how they are and why I'm happy with it.

[Assertn]

It's kind of tricky, really. After crossing over to the new world, our expectations for the capabilities of new enemies is so high, that for Nami to be able to solo one would just seem insulting, and if it's a bunch of no-name thugs, well, anybody from the crew can take them out instantly, but nobody really thinks much of that (Nami did knock that dragon out of the sky with a thunder cloud, for example, but who cares?) Even the new fishmen pirates were all well-below the skill level of any of the strawhats, but only became a threat due to performance-enhancing drugs.

Back in Water 7, someone told Usopp that, even if he can't fight, he can find other ways to contribute that nobody else can. I'm okay with that.

Edit: Also, sure, everyone has trained hard the past two years. But unless you can say that Nami and Usopp are stronger now than Luffy was two years ago, then it's still not enough for them to reliably solo new world enemies.

[toonice714]

I think that Kraco is right in the sense that we have a preconceived notion on how match ups should go because its a fighting manga but I too enjoy the fact that fighting for some of the crew has become a more auxiliary component to their usefulness to the crew

[DarthEnderX]

It's kind of tricky, really. After crossing over to the new world, our expectations for the capabilities of new enemies is so high, that for Nami to be able to solo one would just seem insultingNot to me it doesn't. The whole point of them spending 2 years gaining abilities nobody has ever seen before. If they COULDN'T take on the 7th or 8th most powerful member of any given group, I'd feel as though they'd wasted two years of their life.


Edit: Also, sure, everyone has trained hard the past two years. But unless you can say that Nami and Usopp are stronger now than Luffy was two years ago, then it's still not enough for them to reliably solo new world enemies.That implies that everyone on everyone ELSES crew in the New World is ALSO stronger than Luffy was two years ago, and that's simply not the case. The Whitebeard War was jam packed full of pirates that weren't as strong as Luffy that all came from the New World.

I don't see why the power gap between the leader of any other group and their 7th-8th most powerful members would be any smaller than the power gap within the Strawhats.

[Kraco]

I don't see why the power gap between the leader of any other group and their 7th-8th most powerful members would be any smaller than the power gap within the Strawhats.

No, it's likely much, much bigger. I reckon Straw hats is an exceedingly strange crew as far as pirates go. They have absolutely no cannon fodder members like all the other gangs. In fact, they have subordinates who ought to be captains themselves, like we already heard way back during the Enies Lobby arc. I imagine in most crews the captain is a lot more powerful than the rest. Then there's a couple of lieutenants, but that's almost it as far as real fighters are considered. Straw hats have a super class captain, a vice-captain (if you can call Zoro that as the second oldest member) who's also a real monster and easily captain class even in the New world. Sanji probably isn't that far behind. The rest could serve in the role of a lieutenant no problem. This is talking about fighting capability, naturally, because considering more diverse skills they are peerless.

[DarthEnderX]

That's why I'm saying, it's not unrealistic that even the weakest Strawhats would still be able to have battles and believably be able to win.

It's just a matter of making sure the monster Strawhats take on the monster enemies.


Hell, Ceasar is the kind of opponent I would normally have put up again one of the weaker Strawhats. Because combatwise, he's pretty weak. It's just a matter of getting around his Logia, which someone smart like Nami or Usopp would probably be able to do. In fact, Nami could probably seriously mess up Ceasar with some atmospheric mojo.