Happy Birthday, MFauli!

[Sapphire]

As much as I'm sure Haru would love to share his bday thread, let's make another one for MFauli!

Happy bday! Please continue to piss off various members of this forum with whatever you've been doing, that's the only thing keeping this train chugging!

[Ryllharu]

Ryllharu indeed does not care. (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/22708-Happy-Birthday-Ryllharu!?p=535427&viewfull=1#post535427)

Saph is just out for attention.

Happy Birthday anyway MFauli. Put it into your profile, so we know each time.

[Animeniax]

Happy birthday MFauli. Here's hoping all your favorite sports teams win today.

[Penner]

That time of year again, it's just raining birthdays!

Happy Birthday MFauli!

[Sapphire]

Ryllharu indeed does not care. (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/22708-Happy-Birthday-Ryllharu!?p=535427&viewfull=1#post535427)

Saph is just out for attention.

Happy Birthday anyway MFauli.

Eh? Haru, I'm not sure what you mean by this post, but it's reeking of sarcasm and general crochettiness. Keep your vitriol in your own thread! This is specifically for appreciating MFauli. Thanks.

[Buffalobiian]

Happy Birthday!!

[Kraco]

Have a good one!

[David75]

Happy Birthday!

[Abdula]

This is specifically for appreciating MFauli. Thanks.
Lol, I thought that thread in the FP was for appreciating MFauli.

@Ryll: It was on the calender but I guess no one ever checks the calender (-_-?)

Happy birthday again MFauli.

[Ryllharu]

@Ryll: It was on the calender but I guess no one ever checks the calender (-_-?)
Calendar? What Calendar?

...


(￣□￣;)


Hmm, never knew we had one.

[Sapphire]

CALENDER? I haven't seen that thing in like 5 years.

What can we do with it? Let's do stuff!

[Ryllharu]

I am the only one who will copy-paste the word "calendar" because I can't spell it? Yes.

Well, at least no one wrote "colander".

[Abdula]

So picky. It is the need for perfect grammar and spelling. on the internet of all places. that drove Saman off,

Colander is hilarious.

[Sapphire]

I am the only one who will copy-paste the word "calendar" because I can't spell it? Yes.

Wait, you copy-paste it?!!!!!?

That's legitimately freakin' cute. LOL

--

I don't get "colander".... :(

[MFauli]

thanks, everyone! :o

Aye, will continue wit the "pissing off". Tomorrow is naruto-manga day, right? :P

[Abdula]

Aw, you don't piss me off MFauli and I have no idea how you could possibly make Naruto worse. Is there some unspoken rule against discussion in birthday threads or is it pure coincidence that it never happens?

@Sapp: I thought you cooked a lot of rice, how do you drain it?

[Buffalobiian]

Is there some unspoken rule against discussion in birthday threads or is it pure coincidence that it never happens?
There's a "stay on topic" rule. Its limits are yet to be tested.

If worse comes to worst, I'll make this The Calendar Thread.

[Kraco]

I am the only one who will copy-paste the word "calendar" because I can't spell it? Yes.

The Finnish version of the word uses "e", so I'm in a much higher danger than you!

[shinta|hikari]

In my country, people usually say calendar as calenDAR (as in far) so it is an unlikely mistake for me. While I don't because I picked up an accent overseas, I hear it a lot.

[Sapphire]

@Sapp: I thought you cooked a lot of rice, how do you drain it?

I mean, I know what a colander IS, I just don't get how you go from spelling calendar -> calender -> colander lol


There's a "stay on topic" rule. Its limits are yet to be tested.

If worst comes to worst, I'll make this The Calendar Thread.

YOU BEST NOT BE CHANGIN' THIS BDAY THREAD BUFF.

YOU BEST NOT!

[Animeniax]

Who drains their cooked rice? You mean while washing off the grains before cooking? Even then using a colander is just a waste of time and another thing to clean.

Happy bday again, MFauli. Is that your real first initial and last name?

[MFauli]

1.) you don´t wash rice. Have some faith in the hygiene of your supplier :>
2.) It´s calendar in English.



Happy bday again, MFauli. Is that your real first initial and last name?

Initial of my first name, but no, "Fauli" is not my last name, lol.

[Animeniax]

Most rice suppliers are third world Asians who could care less about cleanliness or proper procedure for handling food.

[Kraco]

Unless rice is parboiled, the washing before cooking is done to remove excess starch dust from the rice, to prevent it from turning too sticky. White rice is polished, after all. When you wash it, you can easily see the washing water turn slightly white due to the dust.

Well, I rinse even parboiled rice. Who knows what might have ended up in the product during the long production chain.

[Animeniax]

Nah we love sticky rice where I come from (SE Asia). We wash it to fool ourselves that it is cleaned of all the funk that might have gotten on the rice during production and transport as you said. In the same vein we still get bottled water by the gallon instead of drinking tap water.


Initial of my first name, but no, "Fauli" is not my last name, lol. If it were you wouldn't be the first internet user to do something that dumb. My dad had his SSN as the username for his online bank account before I made him change it.

[Kraco]

Nah we love sticky rice where I come from (SE Asia).

It's plenty sticky even after washing. Only parboiled rice isn't sticky. Or rice that hasn't been polished at all and that would take you ten hours to chew, but the fiber content would be phenomenal.

[Abdula]

I mean, I know what a colander IS, I just don't get how you go from spelling calendar -> calender -> colander lol

Well then allow me to introduce you to one of my favorite sites on this here internetz. Dumbest tweets. Ever. (http://dumbesttweets.com/) Peruse at your own risk.



If it were you wouldn't be the first internet user to do something that dumb. My dad had his SSN as the username for his online bank account before I made him change it.
I can top that. Someone who I dubiously call a friend has his address in his gamertag.

[Buffalobiian]

Nah we love sticky rice where I come from (SE Asia). We wash it to fool ourselves that it is cleaned of all the funk that might have gotten on the rice during production and transport as you said. In the same vein we still get bottled water by the gallon instead of drinking tap water.

Ever gone to Hong Kong? It's common practice there to wash your utensils with hot water or tea at the table of restaurants before eating. It might do something, but it's not the antiseptic technique the locals believe it to be. Tap water quality varies, so I can see why people can develop a habit from living in less fortunate areas.

[Animeniax]

Ever gone to Hong Kong? It's common practice there to wash your utensils with hot water or tea at the table of restaurants before eating. It might do something, but it's not the antiseptic technique the locals believe it to be. Tap water quality varies, so I can see why people can develop a habit from living in less fortunate areas.
Yep I've been there. I can't recall if I did it there but I pretty much always clean utensils before using them, even here in the US. My parents use the lime wedges served at every table to clean with, as the acidic juices are thought to kill bacteria.

[shinta|hikari]

Doesn't hot water kill bacteria though?

[Buffalobiian]

Doesn't hot water kill bacteria though?

It's a function of heat and time. I can't tell you the details for the common bacteria, some are harder to kill than others.

My issue is that there's no real standardisation or knowledge behind the action. Water temp and rinsing time isn't controlled. USA's EPA recommends boiling water for 1 minute, for example (http://water.epa.gov/drink/emerprep/emergencydisinfection.cfm#method) to make water safe to drink. The way people commonly rinse their stuff at restaurants neither uses boiling water nor reaches 1 minute. That's why restaurants are supposed to sanitise their utensils after rinsing, because bacteria still remains. Many don't though.

Users are lulled into a false sense of security because they're using the hot water as if it's an alcohol wash. Bringing your own alcohol wipes would be the way to go if you were so worried.

Even then they probably wouldn't know how to use it, because to killing of bacteria with alcohol happens as the alcohol dries. That means that you should wait 30secs to 2minutes after wiping for the actual killing action to complete.

[Kraco]

I'd imagine most restaurants in industrialised countries would wash their utensils in a dishwasher. Due to less mechanical cleaning action compared to hand washing, the detergent is real poison and highly alkaline. So alkaline that in time it will turn even drinking glasses opaque.

If the restaurant is sporting bacteria that will survive such conditions, I imagine you would notice when entering the place. The employees would probably try to eat your brain immediately.

[shinta|hikari]

I'd imagine most restaurants in industrialised countries

That is the assumption that excludes so many other cases.

[Buffalobiian]

I'd imagine most restaurants in industrialised countries would wash their utensils in a dishwasher.

I know of 6 restaurant back-areas either due to friend or personal employment experience in Australia. Only 2 of those used dishwashers. The rest just free-styled. None currently use any form of sanitiser.

It's a small sample so it doesn't extrapolate to much though.

[shinta|hikari]

Machine dishwashers also take a lot of time. Human ones can do it far faster and on demand (unlike machines that do it in batches), but have obviously none of the disinfection the machine provides. Most dish detergents have anti bacterial properties though, assuming the ads are true.

[Ryllharu]

Most commercial dishwashers sterilize using very hot water. There is no way a human is faster. The cycle is barely over a minute long, and that's for the entire rack of dishes.

I'm not sure most of them even use any kind of detergent.

[shinta|hikari]

I have only ever used household dishwashers, which take about 30 minutes to wash, steam, and dry the dishes. If commercial ones really do clean as fast as you say, then I stand corrected.

[Kraco]

Most commercial dishwashers sterilize using very hot water. There is no way a human is faster. The cycle is barely over a minute long, and that's for the entire rack of dishes.

I'm not sure most of them even use any kind of detergent.

Hmm... Does some physical phenomenon allow hot water to remove fat without detergent?

But like you said, they are fast indeed, from what I've seen. I merely assumed they must use some nasty detergent as well.

However, I admit I have no basis whatsoever to assume smaller food establishments would use proper methods and/or machines. Since you guys seem to have personal experience indicating the contrary, I'll yield.

[Buffalobiian]

I've had to use a commercial one before, and I don't think Ryll emphasises very enough. It's more like VERY hot. The dishes were simply too hot to comfortably remove from the rack. I respect its washing prowess though. We only used it for rinsing however, the dishes were still scrubbed with detergent prior to being put on the racks.

At the other end, I washed after 100+ people singlehandedly by hand one time after waiting on them (waiting was shared between 3-4 other staff) which was kinda fun and interesting (since I only had to do it once and get to brag about it). Not much sterilisation going on there. All this aside though, I've never seen any of the establishments I've known get fined/shut for food safety. That either spells badly for the inspection system or it shows that the official standards are needlessly high.

[Animeniax]

I can't see that a dishwasher can get the scrubbing action of washing by hand with a rough sponge.


Doesn't hot water kill bacteria though?
Boiling water kills bacteria, but no one would hand-wash with water that hot. I don't even know that a dishwasher can use water that hot (it pulls hot water from the tap, same as your sink, with no reservoir to boil the water (it's not like a coffee maker).

edit: this is from HowStuffWorks:

Although dishwashers are watertight, they don't actually fill with water. Just a small basin at the bottom fills up. There, heating elements heat the water to 130 to 140 degrees Fahrenheit.

So definitely not hot enough to kill all bacteria.

[Sapphire]

This article makes sense to me. (http://gizmodo.com/5920720/unless-you-use-a-dishwasher-youll-probably-be-having-bacteria-for-dinner-again)

Handwashing: the water can't get anywhere near hot enough and chances are you're using a gross contaminated sponge anyway.

Dishwashing: should be better due to high heat (impossible for handwashing unless you're using gloves. According to the article ~145 degrees is enough to at least consider the dishes sanitized). You don't need infinite amounts of scrubbing power so much as just enough to get the food bits off, which are breeding grounds for bacteria of course. Plus use of detergent helps to create an unfriendly environment even more. I'm curious about restaurants that are confident (lazy?) enough to not use detergent, though.

Absent of pure mechanical pressure, mere water, no matter how hot, isn't able to dissolve oil!

[Animeniax]

Besides the waste of water, I think over-sterilization by using the dishwasher weakens the immune system. Like the article quotes, eating from bacteria-ridden dishes for decades hasn't had ill effects on people.

[Kraco]

Boiling water kills bacteria, but no one would hand-wash with water that hot. I don't even know that a dishwasher can use water that hot (it pulls hot water from the tap, same as your sink, with no reservoir to boil the water (it's not like a coffee maker).

I had a look at some Metos brochures (Metos being a major manufacturer of such appliances in Northern Europe) and it looks like the typical machines for a restaurant or institutional kitchen of a reasonable size can draw between 10-15kW of power. So they definitely are heating water. Furthermore, the same papers said the washing temperature is around 65C because the detergents prefer such temperatures, with the finish rinsing 85+C for sanitization.


Besides the waste of water, I think over-sterilization by using the dishwasher weakens the immune system. Like the article quotes, eating from bacteria-ridden dishes for decades hasn't had ill effects on people.

The same brochure also ended with an anecdote that no matter how much effort is being invested in the kitchen to prepare wonderful food, it's all wasted if the customer gets dirty utensils.

[Animeniax]

I had a look at some Metos brochures (Metos being a major manufacturer of such appliances in Northern Europe) and it looks like the typical machines for a restaurant or institutional kitchen of a reasonable size can draw between 10-15kW of power. So they definitely are heating water. Furthermore, the same papers said the washing temperature is around 65C because the detergents prefer such temperatures, with the finish rinsing 85+C for sanitization.I added that link to correct myself on this fact.


The same brochure also ended with an anecdote that no matter how much effort is being invested in the kitchen to prepare wonderful food, it's all wasted if the customer gets dirty utensils.If the flavor of your food is so weak that microscopic bacterial contamination can over-power it, you need to add more salt or butter.

[Buffalobiian]

If the flavor of your food is so weak that microscopic bacterial contamination can over-power it, you need to add more salt or butter.

It's saying that awesome food doesn't matter if people shit their guts out afterwards. >_>

[Animeniax]

It's saying that awesome food doesn't matter if people shit their guts out afterwards. >_>

I don't think that's what they are saying at all. I think they are being pretentious and speaking in hyperbole that a perfectly made meal will be ruined if you use dirty utensils to eat it, both because it can contaminate the flavor of the dish as well as grossing out the diner who has to use unclean utensils. I'd expect this kind of alarmist propaganda from a dishwasher manufacturer.

[Sapphire]

Besides the waste of water, I think over-sterilization by using the dishwasher weakens the immune system. Like the article quotes, eating from bacteria-ridden dishes for decades hasn't had ill effects on people.

Do you use soap when you shower?

Honest question. I know people who don't believe in using soap for the same thing you just stated.

[Animeniax]

Do you use soap when you shower?

Honest question. I know people who don't believe in using soap for the same thing you just stated.

Yes, but mostly just for the pubic areas because they get oily and just water won't dissolve the oil as mentioned previously. But I thought we already came to the consensus that the soap isn't what kills the bacteria, just very hot water and washing away the bacteria.

On this same line of thought, I think living in areas without a real winter and summer weakens people's constitutions and ability to survive. If you live in a sunny climate year round, you're not going to be able to handle a cold snap. Likewise, if you can't stand the heat of a Texas summer, that makes you a little weaker as well, considering it's only going to get hotter on this planet in the coming decades.

[Abdula]

Animeniax your way of thinking does not surprise me. We should all endeavor to survive under the most extreme conditions possible because it will make us stronger. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger:rolleyes:

[Animeniax]

Well that's going a little too far. Living through a cold winter or hot summer isn't the "most extreme conditions possible". I think it makes sense that someone who spends the year round at 75F/24C would have a hard time adjusting to cold or hot days without feeling like shit and being generally useless those days.

[Ryllharu]

Handwashing: the water can't get anywhere near hot enough and chances are you're using a gross contaminated sponge anyway.
I currently don't have a dishwasher, but I boil my sponge at least once a week! I also pour whatever boiling water is left in the hotpot into it after making tea.

Also, the hot water comes out at about 140°F. I use gloves.

[Abdula]

Ani, 75°F year round sounds like heaven. Naturally if you have lived in a particular climate your body will become acclimated. Your post just made no sense to me. For example your last sentence seems to imply that we should all move to warmer climates in order to survive a future warmer global climate, Whereas if the entire planet is warming up one should stay in or move to typically cooler areas as temperatures in such areas will we more bearable. No just no, not going to think about this any more. I am getting a headache from trying to understand your reasoning.

[Animeniax]

Well move to California and you'll get that most of the year. Yeah it gets cold sometimes and warm others, but mostly it's beautiful weather year round. There's a reason people outside California don't like people from there. When you don't have to worry about the weather, you find other stupid shit to complain about. Some of it useful like marriage equality, but a lot isn't.

What I'm saying is that allowing yourself to acclimate to a moderate climate makes you soft and unprepared for the winter that is coming (figuratively speaking).

[Abdula]

Whereas living in perpetual winter will make you grizzled and hardy and prepared for 100°F temperatures and 100% humidity? My point is that you don't have a point. Living in either extreme will not prepare you for the opposite extreme and neither will living in a moderate climate.

[Animeniax]

I think the hardened mountain man who can survive at -30F below 0 can acclimate himself to extremes better than a hipster/yuppie could handle being taken out of their comfort zone of moderate temps.

[Abdula]

A very very nice attempt there Ani. Really very nice.

[Sapphire]

Yes, but mostly just for the pubic areas because they get oily and just water won't dissolve the oil as mentioned previously. But I thought we already came to the consensus that the soap isn't what kills the bacteria, just very hot water and washing away the bacteria.

Wat hoh mah gawd! Nooo, soap is very very important for killing bacteria. It's a combination of the high pH and hot water that does it but soap is by no means irrelevant! Think of it like this. Soap kills the bacteria by dissolving it's cell walls (for the most part unless we're talking about super bacteria that survives in ridiculous conditions), the sponge scrapes off the dead bacteria carcasses and the water helps dissolve the soap and various other polar elements stuck on your body (keep in mind oil is nonpolar which is where soap comes in, water does nothing for these).

(above same theory for brushing teeth)

Besides, bacteria isn't your only problem. Your entire body secretes oils and other complex substances (polar/covalent complexes) that water doesn't really do anything for no matter the temp. It doesn't make sense that only your nuts get oily. Not to mention merely going outside makes you dirty from dirty air as well as sitting around in your underwear shedding skin/grease etc. Soap dissolves whatever trash you accumulate on your body internally or externally. Chances are you smell gross as hell!!!!! :<!!!! Someone who doesn't use soap once touched me and I got a rash! lol

What does your girlfriend (past or present) have to say about it, and would you date someone who really only paid attention to vajayjay hygeine?

[Buffalobiian]

Is this all assuming that we lose our clothing industry?

Cuz... there are clothes and shit. In case anyone forgot.

edit: about body washing -

Removing oils is pretty good. You're not going to clean off your bacteria, nor do you need to.

[Animeniax]

Wat hoh mah gawd! Nooo, soap is very very important for killing bacteria. It's a combination of the low pH and hot water that does it but soap is by no means irrelevant! Think of it like this. Soap kills the bacteria by dissolving it's cell walls (for the most part unless we're talking about super bacteria that survives in ridiculous conditions), the sponge scrapes off the dead bacteria carcasses and the water helps dissolve the soap and various other polar elements stuck on your body (keep in mind oil is nonpolar which is where soap comes in, water does nothing for these).

(above same theory for brushing teeth)

Besides, bacteria isn't your only problem. Your entire body secretes oils and other complex substances (polar/covalent complexes) that water doesn't really do anything for no matter the temp. It doesn't make sense that only your nuts get oily. Not to mention merely going outside makes you dirty from dirty air as well as sitting around in your underwear shedding skin/grease etc. Soap dissolves whatever trash you accumulate on your body internally or externally. Chances are you smell gross as hell!!!!! :<!!!! Someone who doesn't use soap once touched me and I got a rash! lol

What does your girlfriend (past or present) have to say about it, and would you date someone who really only paid attention to vajayjay hygeine?

Idk, I have pretty dry skin so oiliness isn't a problem, and neither is hygiene (I'm very self-conscious about how I smell). And your underarms are also pubic areas.

I think we need to check facts about soap killing bacteria. I've read the soap loosens the oil that traps bacteria and the act of washing flushes the bacteria away, not that the soap kills bacteria itself.

[Sapphire]

I checked the facts using my brain, I've learned this information (http://questions.sci-toys.com/node/90) since HS. :p Preformed petri dish experiments blabla. Biochem major, this is my area of expertise (but still look it up and inform yourself!!). So that whole thing is why companies can claim "this soap kills 99.9% of bacteria". But the thing I'd rather emphasize is all the things soap does OTHER than simply kill bacteria...

You didn't answer the GF question!

PS - your skin still secretes lots of stuff (including ITSELF) regardless of whether you detect it or not, for example naturally sweating (regardless of temperature/humidity/exertion) and all sorts of stuff is nonstop equilibriating regardless of what you do. Also, no one can smell their own B.O. (unless they hold their breath for a long ass time and re-sensitize themselves to their own smell?)

[Animeniax]

Sorry but that doesn't look to be the most reputable of sites, more like a cheap sales site for some company.

Here's something from Harvard Medical (http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Health_Letter/2007/January/The_handiwork_of_good_health):


Soap and water don't kill germs; they work by mechanically removing them from your hands. Running water by itself does a pretty good job of germ removal, but soap increases the overall effectiveness by pulling unwanted material off the skin and into the water.

and an article from The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/06/soap-how-much-cleaner-does-it-actually-make-your-hands/258839/) that discusses use of just water, with soap, and antibacterial soap. It seems proper scrubbing technique (mostly time spent) is the most important factor in removing bacteria:


regular soap simply causes bacteria to loosen their grip on your hands, to be rinsed away

About the gf, let's try to stay on topic. Happy birthday MFauli!

[Sapphire]

I see your Harvard/Atlanta article and raise you a few from the NIH.

(1 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9826614)) (2 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2525049)) (3 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4074739))

These are all saying a way more complicated version of:


The surfactants in the bacterial cell wall are in two layers, with all of the oil loving ends of the molecules facing inwards between the two layers. Adding soap and scrubbing allows the molecules in the two layers to turn inside-out, and this allows the bacteria to leak, and soap to get inside, where it can harm the bacterium’s enzymes that it needs to live.


Those articles seem to be written by reporters more than scientists (I would fire whoever wrote those articles). D:. The Atlantic article seems to be about people who just don't know how to use soap (yes, this is possible lol). I'll look for simpler to understand articles (that are still scientifically valid).

Informative page - If you trust it! (http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1c9ri3/what_is_the_001_of_bacteria_that_soap_doesnt_kill/) I guess it's easy to know what to believe if you already have the foundation.

Again, simply killing bacteria isn't the only issue. You didn't answer the GF question! Why avoid!

[Animeniax]

The authors of those abstracts are purposefully obfuscating the subject matter with their big science words. Though they appear to basically say the same thing, that the soap disrupts the bacteria's ability to cling to your skin, not that they kill the bacteria.


You didn't answer the GF question! Why avoid!Because the topic at hand is actually very informative and interesting, so let's stay on topic.

[Sapphire]

The authors of those abstracts are purposefully obfuscating the subject matter with their big science words. Though they appear to basically say the same thing, that the soap disrupts the bacteria's ability to cling to your skin, not that they kill the bacteria.

Eh? Okay, let me sort it for you in order of difficulty.

Super Easy (Sapphi (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/22709-Happy-Birthday-MFauli!?p=535690&viewfull=1#post535690)):
...soap is very very important for killing bacteria. It's a combination of the high pH and hot water that does it but soap is by no means irrelevant! Think of it like this. Soap kills the bacteria by dissolving it's cell walls (for the most part unless we're talking about super bacteria that survives in ridiculous conditions), the sponge scrapes off the dead bacteria carcasses and the water helps dissolve the soap and various other polar elements stuck on your body...

Easy (Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1c9ri3/what_is_the_001_of_bacteria_that_soap_doesnt_kill/)):
They're just lucky bacteria. Soap is a detergent. A common detergent in handwashing soap is sodium dodecyl sulfate. SDS is used to kill because it has both polar and nonpolar properties. Thus, it is able to get into the membrane of a cell, which itself as a polar and nonpolar end (and lined up, you get a nonpolar core and a polar exteriors to the membrane's envelope.) SDS gets in there and causes the disruption and dispersion of the lipids, meaning the cell spills its guts. Cells don't live once they spill their guts.

Medium (Sci-toys (http://questions.sci-toys.com/node/90)):
The surfactants in the bacterial cell wall are in two layers, with all of the oil loving ends of the molecules facing inwards between the two layers. Adding soap and scrubbing allows the molecules in the two layers to turn inside-out, and this allows the bacteria to leak, and soap to get inside, where it can harm the bacterium’s enzymes that it needs to live.

Hard (NIH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9826614)):
Detergents with strongly hydrophilic heads (SDS and beta-D-dodecylmaltoside) only very slowly solubilize liposomal membranes and do not cause liposome fusion. These properties are correlated with a slow bilayer flip-flop. Our data suggest that detergent solubilization proceeds by a combination of 1) a transbilayer attack, following flip-flop of detergent molecules across the lipid bilayer, and 2) extraction of membrane components directly by detergent micelles.

I think I give up after this~ @___@ By all means, keep having a stinky booty all day, this is Amurrica, you're free to do so! No judgement here, us zannen na otaku have to stick together. Though my suggestion is if you aren't prepared to get down and dirty in a science argument by being willing to read the actual research (not sketchy oversimplified reporter crap), don't have one. Though if you don't have the foundation, I can see why it's easy to believe the oversimplified garbage... that's a problem in society! D: D: Again, bacteria isn't the ONLY issue resolved with soap... I am not disagreeing with you about loosening oil/non-polarish substances that was in one of the first posts I made.

To add an important disclaimer, as Buff said, it isn't actually necessary (and is actually a bad idea for reasons I won't get into) to kill 100% of the bacteria on your body. I can't get into why if you won't accept the premise that soap mechanistically kills bacteria. I didn't even get into pH and optimal timing. But this is really more of a regulated "disruption" of the levels of bacteria (as seen by brushing your teeth and preventing cavities/plaque). What do you believe toothpaste does?

To bring everyone else into the discussion, what is your daily hygiene regimen? Do ya'll brush your tongues? (I know a lot of people who don't do this).

Shinta and Haru strike me as neat freaks.


Because the topic at hand is actually very informative and interesting, so let's stay on topic.

MFauli's bday? Wuss.

[MFauli]

i love this thread so much. best birthday present, for sure. (i actually got a water boiler, might be a tad bit better :>)

[Animeniax]

You mean a pot for your stove, or something more sophisticated?

[darkshadow]

If you don't brush your tongue, you shouldn't be allowed to talk to people.

[Ryllharu]

i love this thread so much. best birthday present, for sure. (i actually got a water boiler, might be a tad bit better :>)
Do you mean like a hotpot, or some kind of on-demand heater for a sink or bathroom? If hotpot, what kind of functionality does it have? I'm rather fond of the one I have, which holds water at a few presets for different types of tea or vacuum press coffee.


To bring everyone else into the discussion, what is your daily hygiene regimen? Do ya'll brush your tongues? (I know a lot of people who don't do this).

Shinta and Haru strike me as neat freaks.

I've been summoned via a slight that was directed at my character!

I use soap of course, and like any red-blooded American, needlessly shampoo every day (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102062969) (tl;dr you don't really have to, the more you do the greasier it gets). I use a squeegee on the walls because cleaning is much easier if you do. It works in the military, it works for Ryllharu!

I avoid antibacterial soaps for the obvious reason of not promoting resistances in bacterial strains, however inconclusive those claims are (http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/11/10/04-1276_article.htm#materialsandmethods).

I brush my teeth twice a day (including the tongue!), floss once a day, and use a fluoride rinse once a day. Healthy teeth are pivotal to prolonged quality of life and social situations!

I shave every other day because it gives me a better one.

If soap isn't available before I eat or when using a public bathroom, I follow the happy birthday rule (sing the happy birthday song in your head while scrubbing hands under water).

I wouldn't say neat freak, maybe "clean." I only use hand sanitizers when I lose power for days.


EDIT 2:

You're never going to kill all the bacteria on and in your skin, ever. Humans are walking, talking arcologies of microbiological colonies. There are varieties that are uniquely adapted to every single type of skin you've got (dry and cool, warm and wet, etc). They're also helping to keep you safe due to overcrowding and critical mass. They "crowd out" far more harmful bacteria.

[Animeniax]

I used to use shampoo everyday, until I was informed it aggravates oily hair and face conditions by stripping away oils with every shampooing, causing your skin to overcompensate by creating even more oil. So now I only shampoo 2 or 3 times a week. I run very warm to hot water to give my hair a good cleaning with every shower. The other result is that I'm still on the same bottle of shampoo for over a year.

[shinta|hikari]

@Sapph - Well, sort of. I wash my hands maybe 20 times a day or so, using antibacterial soap. If hand sanitizer is available before a meal, I will always use it. I avoid touching public doorknobs, especially for toilets, unless I have no choice or a paper towel on hand.

I used to shower twice a day because of the climate here, but since I started working, I don't really get exposed to the sun anymore so I do it once a day. I shampoo every time, even if I have very short hair.

I brush my teeth twice a day, and I brush my tongue gently each time to keep my palate fresh and clean for good food.

I used to be a bit less obsessive, but after getting hit by food poisoning/stomach flu a couple of times I became a lot more careful.

[Animeniax]

And sadly no matter how hygienic you are, avoiding food poisoning will be pretty much impossible unless you grow, clean, and cook everything yourself.

I think your regimen of compulsive cleaning probably leaves your immune system weakened. It's better to let your body have some contact with germs so it can fight them off and strength itself.

[shinta|hikari]

You can't really have a weak immune system due to that reason while living here. Trying to be clean as possible still leaves enough bacteria to keep your immune system on guard. I blame the public transportation system and general lack of hygiene for this. Cash and coins are probably the dirtiest things one can touch here, and people don't wash their hands after going to the toilet (or doing anything else, for that matter).

Swine flu and some cases of dengue fever weren't even recognized by people who contracted them because they got better in a few days. They just assumed it is the usual cold or flu.

Well, I am pretty sure I have a weaker immune system than the children swimming in the river with garbage and feces floating around or frolicking in the sewage drains during heavy rains and floods, but I don't want that kind of immunity.

[Buffalobiian]

I'm not sure if the weak exposure idea has much validity. It's more popular in explaining why we have more allergies in 1st world countries though.

[shinta|hikari]

Rather than weak exposure, the people have already been infected by similar if not the same illness before, making them more resistant, or even immune.

[Animeniax]

The more weak toxins that your body encounters, the more it can fight them without debilitating you, which builds up your immune system and helps you for the most part to be able to ignore the weaker germs that make others sick, as well as get you through a major illness. I don't know if this is exactly how it works but it makes sense.

I think it's the same with food. When I was in 3rd world Asian countries, I was warned against eating street food because my system wasn't used to the germs. Of course the locals can eat it without problem, they've been eating it for their entire lives. That's why there's a thing called "traveler's diarrhea," people eat food containing contaminants their body isn't used to, so it makes them sick.

[Sapphire]

@Sapph - Well, sort of. I wash my hands maybe 20 times a day or so, using antibacterial soap. If hand sanitizer is available before a meal, I will always use it. I avoid touching public doorknobs, especially for toilets, unless I have no choice or a paper towel on hand.

Holy shit! 20 times a day is sort of!!?

I understand the doornobs (and prolly poles) thing. I usually use my clothes to open greasy things like that, lol.

[shinta|hikari]

Every time I go to piss, and every time I handle food. That number can go higher when I cook, because I worry about the health of people eating food I prepare.

[MFauli]

DEAR GOD, A NORMAL WATER COOKING DEVICE, SO I CAN MAKE TEA WITH IT.

damn, how did this develop into a discussion about immune systems. lol

[shinta|hikari]

Did you just get a custom title..?

If I remember correctly, that is based on rep.

The world is ending.

[Sapphire]

SHUT UP MFAULI

[Alhuin]

Did you just get a custom title..?

If I remember correctly, that is based on rep.

The world is ending.

Damn, if I knew this was based on birthday's, I wouldn't have to be working so hard for mine >_>

Also, happy late birthday guy.

[MFauli]

Did you just get a custom title..?

If I remember correctly, that is based on rep.

The world is ending.

i dont get it. what just happened to me? Have I played too much Pokemon end ... evolved?

[Sapphire]

I'm pretty sure it's based off of rep and not birthdays?

Someone just likes MFauli that much.