Gin no Saji [Archive] - Gotwoot Forums

David75

Sun, 08-11-2013, 06:55 AM

Another nice anime with no thread

http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/6/49237l.jpg

Yugo Hachiken dreams of life separated from his family, so he takes the initiative by enrolling in an agriculture school. He thinks, with his talent in studying, no problems will arise no matter what kind of school he attends. He is proven wrong very quickly. Raised as a city boy, he is forced to uncover the inconvenient truth about agricultural life. Enjoy the story of Hachiken, as he tries to keep up with his new friends, farmers' heirs, who are already accustomed to the harsh world of farming. With no clear goals or understanding of farming life, how will Hachiken survive this new, cruel reality? The story of a sweat, tear, and mud-stained youth begins!

[HorribleSubs] Gin no Saji - 05 [1080p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=461129)

[HorribleSubs] Gin no Saji - 04 [1080p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=458719)

[HorribleSubs] Gin no Saji - 03 [1080p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=456290)

[HorribleSubs] Gin no Saji - 02 [1080p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=453960)

[HorribleSubs] Gin no Saji - 01 [1080p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=view&tid=451539)

Another nice anime, I'd grade it under Kamisama no Inai, but it's still a nice watch. Might be bland if you do not like farming and or you know too much of it.
At times, it really feels like an advertising campaing for good products and other such messages.
But it's really a show you can watch on your spare time.

Ryllharu

Sun, 08-11-2013, 07:32 AM

My anime of the season personally. Every episode has been a joy to watch.

The pizza episode in particular is a must see. Hachiken really throws himself into it, and the stark difference between farm life and urban life in Japan is apparent. The side characters really stand out on their own. It was also a nice tie-in to the overall character arc for Hachiken. His teacher advised him to go there to "get away," but Hachiken had clearly found his place in life at the farm school, he just doesn't realize it yet. The others, even the teachers, were desperate for that connection. Sure, they could probably make the pizza too, but only Hachiken knew what it was meant to taste like, and using the local ingredients, he made one better than he had ever tasted.

It should also be pointed out that if the character designs seem familiar, they should be. The author of the original manga is better known for her earlier work: Full Metal Alchemist. She is as good at comedy as action, and this series displays her other strength well.

Lastly, this anime already has a second season. Split cour series ftw!

David75

Sun, 08-11-2013, 07:58 AM

Yup, the Pizza ep was a nice little gem in itself.
I was really surprised no one created a thread for that anime. Sure the subject is very different from your usual anime, but most ingredients are there for a good watch.
Thanks for the intel about a second season, made my day ;)

shinta|hikari

Sun, 08-11-2013, 08:29 AM

Great show, but an atypical choice for the usual anime watcher, much like Moya***mon.

Kraco

Sun, 08-11-2013, 08:31 AM

Apparently pizza isn't as common in Japan as it's in the West (and countries founded by the West) and it's ungodly expensive as well, so it might explain for a large part the "stark difference between farm life and urban life in Japan". Although that's just something I read from some Japan blog years ago, so who knows if it's true.

I was reading the manga before the anime launched and thus this show was a nobrainer for me. Whilst I have never lived at an active farm I have far more than simple passing experience from such circles due to special circumstances I won't go into here, but nevertheless that's probably one big reason why I found this story extra interesting.

MFauli

Mon, 08-19-2013, 01:08 PM

woah, why did nobody tell me this show was good actually. much better than moyashimon, which was to crazy for my tastes.

though can anyone clear up what kind of school this is? it doesnt feel like university level, but if it was vocational school, shouldnt everbody work at some farm when not in school? or is that special for agricultural students that they learn and work at a central insitution? or is it all made up?

Ryllharu

Mon, 08-19-2013, 04:28 PM

...

I apologize if this comes off as rude and abrasi- Who am I kidding? Were you even awake when you claim to have watched this?!

Vocational High School. Everyone who isn't Hachiken works on a farm. All the time. They only talk about it constantly. It's a boarding school, so they only work on their farms when they go home for breaks. That's a major plot point, because Hachiken doesn't come from a farming family, but also doesn't want to go home. He's running away from embarrassment, perceived failure to get into a good school, etc.

This is also why the pizza episode is great. Hachiken's middle school teacher came, worried that Hachiken would be having a hard time in his place of self-imposed exile. Hachiken was definitely the type of student who has too much pride, but runs away when he can't succeed. However, he threw himself into making the pizza, and his middle school teacher saw a Hachiken that was actually fitting it rather well.

Yes, these places exist. In the US they are more common at the University Level, but there are dozens of "Tech Schools" (vocational trade schools) with Agricultural programs in my portion of the state I live in alone.

In Japan, there are plenty of these schools in each of the prefectures of Japan, though the would obviously be more common further from Tokyo and on the eastern coasts where food is primarily grown.

MFauli

Mon, 08-19-2013, 05:33 PM

Vocational High School. Everyone who isn't Hachiken works on a farm. All the time. They only talk about it constantly. It's a boarding school, so they only work on their farms when they go home for breaks.

stop being angry. yes, i got that. so it is a special kind of vocational school. that´s what i wanted to know. :>

Ryllharu

Mon, 08-19-2013, 06:18 PM

Given the depth of their practicums, I'd be a little surprised if you could have a school like theirs that wasn't a boarding school. It would be difficult for students spread across a wide area to get to their agricultural school at 4-5am each morning.

I'm also a little surprised they confiscate their cellphones. They barely get service out there...

NOTE: Ryllharu is always angry...or at the very least rather cross.

MFauli

Mon, 08-19-2013, 06:36 PM

just watched ep6. something i wondered for a while:

in "Into the wild, when he shoots the moose, he has to instantly preparate the meat to keep fly larva from hatching. it´s the only movie where ive seen this. here in gin no saji, nobody seems to be in a hurry to prepare the deer.

are there any special conditions in Alaska or what am I missing.

Dark Dragon

Wed, 08-21-2013, 05:31 AM

This show is just so relaxing to watch. I also find myself laughing at jokes that are not suppose to actually be that funny, but somehow it just works in this show.

This is easily the best anime of the season for me.

MFauli

Wed, 08-21-2013, 12:53 PM

it really is fantastic. my only little gripe would be that Hachiken is a little to impressionable. Eating stuff and almost orgasm.

Also, I kinda hate his justification for killing animals: BECAUSE THEY TASTE SO GOOD. :|

Dark Dragon

Wed, 08-21-2013, 01:00 PM

When it comes down to it, that's the reason most people who eat meat truly do it for. It's less of a justification and more of a fact of life, those pigs are going to be slaughter regardless of Hachiken meat eating status.

MFauli

Wed, 08-21-2013, 01:22 PM

still doesnt mean that hachiken HAS TO be part of the meat eating people. It definitely gives off a weak impression of him. "Oh, youre such a cute piglet, Im gonna fight the devil for your sake! ---- but you´re so tasty. Sorry :("
no

personally, im eating meat because im on a low carb diet and couldnt do it by only eating eggs. but if i werent overweight, id seriously contemplate going vegetarian because of how i feel towards animals. but them being tasty just isnt a valid excuse for, basically, murder.

David75

Wed, 08-21-2013, 01:35 PM

Regarding the affection/love and eating thing, something in the same line of thoughts was discussed in the last ep of Uchoten Kazoku.

Hachiken just made it more difficult for him on a psychological level when he named that piglet. That's all there is to it. But at least he's slowly understanting what he wants and goes that direction. He prefers eating meat.
Others would choose otherwise and decide not to eat meat.

Regarding the murder part, it's a tricky thing.
Living beings feed on other living beings to survive, even when they are plants...
I guess as self proclaimed "superior" race, we should enforce more rules on food spoiling, because the real crime is there. Killing and letting food go to waste.

Dark Dragon

Wed, 08-21-2013, 01:49 PM

@Mfauli

Hachiken reason for eating meat is very practical and realistic, he simply just prefers to eat meat over not eating it.

I understand the sentiment of those who become vegetarian have toward animal, but it's not realistic to expect that simply becoming vegetarian will suddenly solve the issue of having to kill animal.

If the world population gradually become vegetarian, the demand for meat would go down. This will cause the price of meat to go down and meat producer will gradually adjust their production to the market. This doesn't mean that they will kill less of the animals they have available, since there's cost to housing/feeding. They'll just reduce the amount of animals being born, so they simply won't exist in the first place.

There's also people like yourself who need to eat meat for health reasons, so that won't go away completely. It's also necessary to kill animals like pigs because they are being use in life saving medical research, so that won't go away either. Hachiken becoming vegetarian would only serve to make him feel better about the situation, it really wouldn't make a difference at the end of the day. His reason for eating meat is no worse than someone who choose to become vegetarian, it's a matter of preference.

It's also very odd to have someone who rejects the killing/eating or animals to be working in an industry that specialize in that.

MFauli

Wed, 08-21-2013, 01:57 PM

i just think it´s too shallow, answering this moral dilemma with "because it tastes so good".

And quite on the contrary, Hachiken being 100%-against killing the piglet could have resulted in an interesting plot development. As a farmer, you eventually have to kill animals (unless youre only growing plants), so watching Hachiken find a "real" answer to this would have been prefered to what we got.

Then again, he´s an idiot anyway. Egg comes from chicken anus. Ew. But it tastes so good -> I´ll eat it anyway. lol

Kraco

Wed, 08-21-2013, 02:31 PM

Dropping meat eating because he saw a piglet for the first time would have been the epitome of shallowness. It would equal to "we don't need power plants because electricity comes from the wall socket" thinking. He has been eating meat all his life even if he hadn't seen the living things before with his own eyes.

A human can survive without eating meat, so there's no particular vital reason to eat it in a developed country with food surplus. So, the only reasons are the taste, texture, and ease. Plus some social reasons still for many people.

Ryllharu

Wed, 08-21-2013, 02:36 PM

It's not just "because it tastes good." Those are two separate issues, though somewhat related.

Hachiken is discovering that locally grown food, fresh from the fields, is super delicious. There's a big difference between eggs from a farm or eggs industrially, though the message from the early episodes was that Japan venerates the industrial method that is looked on unfavorably in the West these days. Hachiken learned in the first episodes with both the eggs and the chicken and the pizza episode that there is a clear difference between the stuff grown at the school and the mass produced product he used to get in the city.

The other message is that people these days, generally speaking, have no idea where the hell the food they eat comes from. Hachiken never knew that the cloaca where chicken eggs come from is dual purpose (the specific details of which he ignored once he conflated it with an anus). Or the casualness with which chicken are beheaded for meat. There is a disassociation with common meats and the animal it's from in English, making the problem even worse. While chicken is chicken, cattle meat is beef and pig meat is pork/bacon/ham, sheep is lamb (which is the word for when they're young), or mutton when they're older. There's a lot of kids that might enjoy petting zoos, never realizing the meat on the dinner table comes from a similar animal.

It's less about getting attached to a particular animal and not having the heart to eat it. It's more about having pride in the products you are working on. I happily devour the vegetables I grow in my backyard. If I grew animals, I personally wouldn't have the heart to give them to anyone else. I would have to be the one eating them.

MFauli

Fri, 08-23-2013, 02:31 PM

new episode was nice.

i hope hachiken and mikage actually become a couple and its not just all teasing through-out the whole show. Not the most likely outcome, but hey, hachiken doesnt seem to hate mikage´s parents´ farm, so why not have him take over as the heir, while mikage expands their business on the horse side? :3

have to criticize the "even fat girl´s parents care about their cows". its not entirely clear what her parents feel like about the cows, but fat girl simply sees it as a business. so even if she´d reanimate a newborn calf, it´d be for business, not out of love.

Ryllharu

Sat, 08-24-2013, 05:58 AM

It was the slight smile as she was feeding it that convinced Hachiken that Tamako loves her animals too, just in a different way. Sure, it's a ruthless kind of love, because Tamako is a ruthless person.

The other way you could view it is that both Mikage and Komaba are almost on the verge of losing their farms, particularly the latter. Mikage doesn't have the heart to carry on the dairy side of their farm, so if she does follow her dream, the family farm will get sold to someone else (unless she marries Hachiken, like you said). Komaba knows that the only way to save his farm is to follow his dream for the cash infusions it will bring.

So, you could say that Tamako is ruthless because she loves her farm. The business isn't an easy one, she calls it the Warring States Era of Agriculture, and she thinks her parents can't keep it running at peak efficiency with a good profit margin. That size allows them to rotate the workers and even give them breaks (leaving them with excellent quality of life) and have a stable revenue stream. She also mentioned that if the cows get diseased, Hachiken would be responsible for making all of the workers lose their jobs. Tamako is actually a very caring person, she's just incredibly ruthless about it.

MFauli

Sat, 08-24-2013, 06:52 AM

tamako clearly stated that money is what she´s doing it all for. guess it´s open to interpretation if that´s only an outter facade or her real stance.

what i was surprised about is how calm, even curious and cheery mikage and her mom were. in reality, tamako´s farm would be THE arch enemy of a small farmer like mikage. i know that myself from other industry (see traditional, small bakeries versus gigantic bread-factories, or small family opticians versus nationa-wide spectacle-maker). it´s not really normal to be that friendly with each other, haha. well, it´s a "feel good"-anime, so no complains here.

Ryllharu

Sat, 08-24-2013, 07:06 AM

That's kinda the thing about dairy farms in America, particularly milk. It spoils. Americans don't drink UHT milk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uht_milk#Popularity). The relative newness of the "Eat Locally Grown" movement is interesting when it comes to fresh dairy products. All the dairy farms are local, always have been. They might all be labeled under a particular brand group, but each of the packages has a code that identifies the individual dairy farm where it came from. I used to live close to one that couldn't have had more than 50 cows, probably less than that.

They don't really compete with each other directly, at least east of the Mississippi River. The demand is there, the only thing that brings down farms is when the market price is too low.

So to me, it wasn't weird at all that they were friendly with each other.

David75

Sat, 08-24-2013, 12:13 PM

I was just wondering if somehow a merger would be possible beetween Komaba and Mikage Farms. Mikage getting some income from Komaba in the deal and starting horse activities.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 08-26-2013, 11:00 AM

i just think it´s too shallow, answering this moral dilemma with "because it tastes so good".

I completely agree with this.

The problem is that his conflicted thoughts seemed so much deeper - do you kill something that you've come to love, or don't you?
The answer is a simple "oh, it tastes so good. Why was it even a dilemma before?"

Tastes good > moral standing.

The fact that it repeats itself doesn't help.

Dirty chicken egg...
>> but it tastes good

Cute little piggy
>> damn bacon's nice

I have to cut this deer??
>> This melts in your mouth!!

I get these conflicted feelings too (and these episodes bring it out). I also continue to eat meat, and it tastes good. The reason I continue though, isn't because tastes good > all, but because I sweep the issue under the carpet since I can't decide. Ignoring and forgetting works for me because I don't really own any animals.

Hachiken makes it sound like he's accepting "It tastes good" as his justification for the killing, which is the cheapening bit.

Overall these episodes keep putting a stupid smile on my face when I watch them.

As for the argument about a drop in demand leading to a decline in livestock population, it's implied that a drop in population isn't any better than the current output. It's automatically justifying that if you allow a life to be born you can kill it since it otherwise wouldn't have lived anyway.

Dark Dragon

Mon, 08-26-2013, 12:29 PM

I don't think that argument is trying to justify anything, that is simply the way it works. You can argue the act of eating/killing livestock is morally wrong or right, but either way the end result does not differ very much.

The argument can be made that the act of killing an animal is wrong, but by not having them exist in the first place the only difference between the 2 scenario is that we made ourselves feel better by not having to kill animals. The argument then becomes is it better for them to live a rather short/crappy life before being made into food or is it better to not have ever existed and feels the pain of living. The answer for this would varies from person to person

If the entire world's population becomes vegetarian, we would still need to kill animal for drug testing, creating medical supplies to save people. It comes down to how much you would value the life of a person over the life of an animal and the answer would also varies from person to person. You could bring the argument a bit further and step into the territory of Buddhism where all life are considered sacred. At this point, the act killing any insect could be seen as terrible as killing another human being.

The whole point i'm trying to make is that there isn't one simple answer to this issue and there will never be. Hachiken is clearly conflicted of what he needs to do since he's stuck between his sensibility of not wanting to kill an animal versus his innate desires which enjoy the act of eating meat. The people around him mostly thinks it's the natural thing to do since it's the environment that they grew up in. I don't see what you guys are saying about the show simplifying the dilemma, because at no point does any character imply that either views are superior. This show is not trying to push any agenda or press any buttons, it's simply providing a few different view point toward the issues and the way a person would react when presented with these issues. Hachiken has not made a final decision on what to do with Pork Bowl when the times comes, that would be after summer when they gets back to the school. I would wait to see his decision before making a judgment of the character.

Buffalobiian

Mon, 08-26-2013, 10:14 PM

I don't see what you guys are saying about the show simplifying the dilemma, because at no point does any character imply that either views are superior.

No side has clearly said that one side was superior. I suppose Hachiken's unresolved conflict shows that.

What ticks me off though, is that the argument that balances the "killing is wrong" thought is simply "it tastes good", as far as Hachiken is concerned. The very fact that it's given equal weighting cheapens the moral consideration in the first place. It's as if saying that self-gratification is enough to at least balance the idea of doing something you think may be morally wrong.

That's the main gripe I have with this presentation. Killing livestock isn't compared to saving world hunger or really about economics or employment, but taste. Economics and livelihood have been covered separately as part of business management, and the deer ep I felt sent a clearer message since they mentioned deer as being important for food up in the mountains. At the same time it was also simplified because the deer already died though.

I do realise Hachiken hasn't made up his decision yet (though really, it's not his decision to make), it's how he's been balancing the issues that's rubbed me the wrong way.

shinta|hikari

Mon, 08-26-2013, 10:48 PM

Did Hachiken ever really feel that killing animals was morally wrong? I felt that he just didn't want to do so himself, or have animals he cared for killed. It is more of disgust or attachment than righteousness.

Even if it is a moral dilemma, I would not belittle taste at all. I love to eat and cook, so I understand just how important taste is, and how much people are willing to do for it.

Buffalobiian

Thu, 08-29-2013, 08:30 PM

Did Hachiken ever really feel that killing animals was morally wrong? I felt that he just didn't want to do so himself, or have animals he cared for killed. It is more of disgust or attachment than righteousness.

Hmm. Perhaps you're right. He didn't have anything against it per se.

HS - Episode 08 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=467842)

------------------------------------

I'm a fool through and through then. I rarely, if ever spend money to better myself. I've very good at not spending money, but when I do it goes towards some form of entertainment or gadget.

Dark Dragon

Fri, 08-30-2013, 05:47 AM

I should've seen that punchline coming.

They were building Hachiken's brother up as this really talented guy so i thought his Ramen would be good. It's pretty hilarious that he's just absolutely horrible at it.

MFauli

Fri, 08-30-2013, 03:15 PM

dunno how i should feel about hachiken´s brother. unless the guy is truly happy with his current way of life, it´s rather sad.

but damn, it´s weird how much i enjoy watching this show. hxh is my favorite of the season, closely followed by shingeki no kyojin. but this anime gives me a completely different kind of satisfaction.

this episode did a fantastic job at building up the HachikenXMikage-couple, though :D Hope that´s further explored during this anime´s story. it´d be kind of refreshing to see a male lead character work to get a girls heart, instead of her being all over him from the beginning (her and half a dozen others,sigh).

also, hachiken´s general lack of a direction in life makes me sympathize with him a lot. even though im doing something right now, i dont feel like it´s what i want to do for the rest of my life. still searching that "something". hachiken, show me what to do :>

shinta|hikari

Sat, 08-31-2013, 01:50 AM

If you want to see a male character work for a female's affections, watch Servant x Service. Now.

Buffalobiian

Thu, 09-05-2013, 06:56 PM

HS - Episode 09 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=470117)

--------------------------------------

SEE! Hachiken said it so plainly this episode. "I'll be a vegetarian, then I won't be conflicted... screw that shit, this tastes so good!"

Then again.. am I really taking that route as well? I say I'm ignoring the issue, but is it that I'm feigning ignorance (by ignoring) instead of trying to admit that I myself am a hypocrite/overriding the moral dilemma because meat tastes good? I don't know..

I really thought that he'd buy Pork Bowl with his holiday money since the pig isn't worth as much, but that's no longer the case. You'd also think that liquid feeding would be something that the school would do once a pig falls below a certain grade. If liquid feeding was a trade secret, then the student wouldn't have spilled the beans so readily. On the other hand, if it's standard pig knowledge, you'd wonder why a school of all places wouldn't be putting it into practice. The only reason I can think of is that the cost of labour isn't worth the increased selling price of just one pig.

I was browsing websites for some 2014 calendars, and I was about to pick the Gin no Saji one because I can count on it being uplifting (I skipped the Fate/Zero one from 2013 for that reason). Then I remembered that Tamako could be on there (namely in that "poolside pose"), and now I'm hesitant. This episode gave me a glimmer of hope, but then....

Her slim form isn't all that great either. Her long face only brings out how short she is, and she still talks like an stuck-up madam. I'd much prefer Mikage, who actually lost some points this episode. There was the tiniest feeling that she was being nicer to Hachiken because someone called her out on being a "bad woman". Not that that's wrong, it's just a more self-centered motive than I'd like. And it's only an ever so slight feeling.

[Shin-S] Gin no Saji OP Single - Faraway [miwa].zip (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=469766)
[Shin-S] Gin no Saji OP Single - Faraway (FLAC) [miwa].zip (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=469765)

I should've seen that punchline coming.

We learnt it last week, and I still didn't see it coming the second time round.

shinta|hikari

Fri, 09-06-2013, 07:33 AM

Hachiken also clearly said that the reason he feels conflicted is because he is attached to Butadon. This was never a moral issue for Hachiken, but an affection issue. Even steak lovers don't eat their dogs. The whole reason he even brought up being a vegetarian is just to escape his dilemma, not because of any moral inclination about killing, and that route was clearly easily crushed by an offer of kebabs. If he actually had moral reservations about it, he would not fold so easily. He cares about Butadon, and that spilled over to pigs, but he was, is, and will be happily eating all sorts of carcasses that don't remind him of his pet.

Mikage is pretty much a dense jerk. She just seems too cold towards Hachiken, even as a normal friend. I tend to agree with your assessment that her motivation for cheering Hachiken up is not friendship but self righteousness.

MFauli

Fri, 09-06-2013, 01:23 PM

starting to dislike hachiken. more of the "it tastes good, so it´s okay to kill". it´d be okay to say that if he just finally made a decision. but all this prolonged "i love you, butadon - but i want to eat you, too *sadface*" needs to stop.

i would be careful about calling mikage dense or cold. imo she´s just too caught up in her own "misery". It´ll depend on Hachiken to break through that shell, be it raising their friendship level or fully getting into a relationship.

btw returning to butadon: wouldn´t it be a-ok if hachiken just bought butadon, made him his pet, and still continued eating pork? afaik that isnt too unusual to have a "favorite".

Ryllharu

Fri, 09-06-2013, 03:23 PM

Buff and MFauli, the both of you are completely missing the point of this series. You're focusing on minutiae that doesn't even matter.

I think it is very interesting, or perhaps telling, that neither of you mentioned the GI Jane teacher talking to the other students about why they don't mind Hachiken being troubled by this scenario. The rest of the student body grew up with the farm environment. Not getting attached to your animals is the status quo for them. Some of them mentioned that they used to name their animals, and they cried and cried when their parents shipped them off. Emulating their parents, they also got into the same level of detachment.

The important thing she said was that Hachiken being troubled by the inevitable need to send off Pork Bowl is that it is getting the other students to think and talk about it. The closer they are to Hachiken, the more they see him troubled by it, and the more they think harder about their "Oh, you're not supposed to name them," attitude. With each of them, it is starting to shift.

Furthermore, because Hachiken got engaged with a particular pig, he went out of his way to learn how to make sure he was properly fattened up so he wouldn't be classified as "Off-Grade." Hachiken took pride in it, and found a way to improve "his" animal. A more detached student might have simply considered it as a loss in the batch and moved on. Instead, a little more effort evened out the overall price the batch of pigs will be able to earn. He also fattened up a few of the others more. A little bit of food will offset the loss from having a pig classified as Off-Grade.

Hachiken's attitude is a learning lesson for him and the other students. Hachiken is catching up to the other students (or maybe even surpassing a few), and the others are learning that a little engagement can really help.

The "because they taste good" part of this arc that you both believe is some kind of "moral dilemma" is meaningless.

Buffalobiian

Fri, 09-06-2013, 11:23 PM

David75

Sat, 09-07-2013, 01:45 AM

Regarding Mikage's attitude, she might feel cold, but she's now always haging around Hachiken. Felt very clear all ep.
She even speaks about him to other students and all.
But it might be that this show is not really about Hachiken finding love.

Augury

Sat, 09-07-2013, 02:04 AM

I'm inclined to agree with Ryllharu. You guys are really zooming in on a side issue and blowing this moral dilemma out of proportion. It's as if you are taking an issue that is close to your heart and imposing expectations on a story that never planned to address it in the first place.

The show isn't really giving me the feeling that it ever wanted to look at a moral dilemma of whether or not to kill animals. It's a slice of life and comedy, and has treated whether or not to eat food from animals with a humor -- which is okay, because it's aimed to be a feel-good type of story first.

If anything, I'd say that seeing the world differently through self-discovery and dealing with family expectations are themes that are more deeply set, whereas food and meat are used more shallowly and for fun.

Dark Dragon

Sat, 09-07-2013, 02:58 AM

It's perfectly fine for you to see it as being less important, but it is anything but meaningless. So far, it's the only reason that these animals need to die for.

Your analogy using a vampire doesn't work, it would only be comparable if those humans are all in a factory destined to be slaughter in a world rule by vampires. I've been to Japan with a vegetarian friend and it just seems the people there can't completely comprehend not eating any animal at all, especially seafood. That's the kind of society Hachiken was raised in, so his values toward eating animal is created in that environment. For him to suddenly change everything he believes in because he saw a cute piglet, that would be shallow. As Ryllharu and other people have said, Hachiken does not seem to have any moral dilemma in regard to eating animals. He just feel a certain amount of attachment to the pig and has trouble dealing with the reality of farm animal life.

I think i already stated in my other post that even if the entire earth population convert to vegetarianism, it would still be necessary to kill animals. "Because animal taste good" is definitely not the only reason they are being killed.

It actually bothers me a bit that the moral issue only comes up whenever the act of eating meat is involve. There's plenty of other thing that most human beings currently enjoy at the expense of animals. All the technology that you are currently using is the result of mass mining/deforestation that destroyed the homes of many animals and brought many species to extinction. The electricity you're currently using is partially from burning of coal that pollute the environment. The many products that you consume is the direct result of industrialization. Many of the benefit that you enjoy as a member of a first world nation comes at the expense of animals and humans from less developed part of the world. When it comes down to it, do you really need a lot of these things to just live? Probably not. I seriously doubt that most people is going to give up all of their modern convenience while knowing all these facts, so the only reason that you really do it for is for your own enjoyment, convenience and comfort. This moral dilemma is most often brought up when associated to meat because you can make a direct correlation between the act of you eating and the death of an animal. That is not the case with some of these other things. So it's really comes down to "out of sight, out of mind".

MFauli

Sat, 09-07-2013, 06:40 AM

. For him to suddenly change everything he believes in because he saw a cute piglet, that would be shallow.

i have to absolutely disagree with this sentiment. changing your whole attitude because you finally got to see "behind the scenes" is a perfectly valid reason to do so. to make a godwin-comparison: it´s as if youre calling a nazi shallow, who just stumbled into a KZ and saw how jews are being treated/killed and thus decides to be against nazism. i dont hink so.

also, yes, we´d still need to kill animals even if it wasnt for food. HOWEVER, that is the point: we *need* to kill for certain stuff. food is not part of that. That´s like those crazy american gun-lovers who, when approached with statistics about gun murder cases, tell you "then why not ban cars, too? Many more people die in car accidents every day than being shot by guns". Yeah, except we need cars for means of transportations, but we don´t need guns.

regarding hachiken, again, i´d be okay with him eating meat, if he could just come to the decision that Butadon is a special case. Then buy Butadon, keep him as a pet, and maybe find a non-lethal use for him, like making him a truffle pig.

Buffalobiian

Sat, 09-07-2013, 09:12 AM

Skip to the bubble for the important bit

@DDragon: I take your point about vampires, in that we think we rule the world. ;) (vampires may think otherwise).

I also agree with your point about us still killing animals even if humans became vegetarians, which is largely why I didn't respond to it last time you posted.

What I meant in my previous post, is that this show (Hachiken rather) has only brought up taste as such an argument. As you guys said, it may not be taking this stance very seriously and thus doesn't bother to go into everything else surrounding the issue.

---------
Since we brought it up though, I'd like to share my thoughts on it, which MFauli has covered somewhat: Just because we kill animals for some "higher" needs such as research doesn't automatically give us the clearance to go "all the way" and kill them for whatever reason we desire. (That's my stance anyway. Different opinions will exist).

You have uses that result in medical treatment/health, you have uses where they convenience us.. and at the other end of the spectrum we have uses that merely entertain us. How someone views the sanctity of life on that scale varies with each person. When you kill for entertainment (would you count taste as entertainment?), that shows how much weight you put on the life you took.

That's a different ethical debate altogether though, so I'll talk specifically about the Butadon dilemma.

----------Just read this part if you want my main point---------------

The issue is as you guys say:

-Hachiken saw a cute pig and gave it a name. He feels close to it now, as if it was his pet. Those feelings are superimposed onto other animals now, so that when he's killing, skinning or eating them he becomes conflicted.

His confliction (aka problem/dilemma) is: "When I eat this pork, it's like I'm eating Butadon. If I love him like I do, I shouldn't be eating him". He has formed a link between Butadon and pork in general. Eating pork feels like eating Butadon.

To me, he has 3 ways of dealing with this problem:

1) Accept the link and his love and become a vegetarian. "Meat reminds me of the Butadon that I love, and I don't eat pets. I'll become a vegetarian instead."

2) Remove the link between Butadon and pork. "I love Butadon like a pet, but these pigs aren't Butadon." Having Butadon as a pet and continuing to eat meat is consistent with this line of thought.

3) Degrade his feelings such that it makes it okay to eat pets. "I love Pork Bowl as a pet.. but hey, it's okay to eat the pets I love because they taste good".

Hachiken has given up on (1).. essentially in favour of (3). He hasn't considered or approached (2) yet.
It is the fact that he is tossing up between taste and "pet love" equally that causes me discomfort. I know he is not physically eating Butadon, but the whole dilemma (and why he's in such a state) stems from the fact that he's projecting those feelings onto livestock in general. If he is to consider them differently, then he has either taken approach (2) and shouldn't be worrying... or he no longer loves Butadon like a pet and should have no worries already.

I also acknowledge(ed in a previous post) that perhaps I am doing the same thing as Hachiken at the moment (eating meat because it tastes good even when I think that they're "lovely" animals that probably shouldn't deserve such a fate), so it's not like he's alone as some "bad, slaughtering figure".

-------------------------------------------------------------------

More generally, do you guys feel that because an issue is used for comedy relief or is only touched slightly that it doesn't deserve such discussion?

Kraco

Sat, 09-07-2013, 10:55 AM

More generally, do you guys feel that because an issue is used for comedy relief or is only touched slightly that it doesn't deserve such discussion?

I don't think this show uses anything as mere comedy relief. Even Tokiwa's stunts have their reason because people like that really exist.

The Pork Bowl question is a step for Hachiken to get used to the agricultural life (or get forward in life in more abstract terms). I guess it turned out to be his rite of passage. While I agree with Ryll on the questionable wisdom of blowing it out of proportion and I doubt Hachiken ever really considered becoming a vegetarian, like Dark Dragon pretty much said, but at the same time there'd be some very deep moral discrepancy about growing pigs (or equivalent) for the meat, yet refusing to eat meat yourself (unless for medical reasons). In that sense I'd say this issue's not about Hachiken becoming a vegetarian or not, but just an aspect of the real question that bothers him: What he's going to do with his life.

What comes to Mikage, there's no doubting she's a bit dense, but on the other hand I believe MFauli is correct: She's strained by the conflict between her dreams and what she feels are her responsibilities that she can't be bothered to think of romantic thoughts. In fact she might be actively refusing such thoughts. If she feels like she heading toward a dead-end, I wouldn't blame her for not wanting to take a guy with her to it.

MFauli

Sat, 09-07-2013, 11:02 AM

I just hope that Hachiken meets a decision at long last when Butadon is killed (or saved). It has been a running theme ever since the anus-eggs, but now it´s becoming annoying, imo at least. No more jumping between the ropes, decide what´s it gotta be. I agree with Buff´s 3 options, and hope it´ll be #2. Would make the most sense and keep our main character likeable, yet reasonable.

also: yes, or simpler put; Mikage is this anime´s Sasuke. :/

shinta|hikari

Sat, 09-07-2013, 11:34 PM

Buffalobiian

Sat, 09-07-2013, 11:57 PM

I don't agree with Mikage being Sasuke. That would mean that she deserves to die right now. She is just a bit cold, nothing that warrants that.

I think Hachiken is trying and should go for the fourth option. 4) Butadon is not a pet, I should be able to eat him (or allow him to be slaughtered at least) if I want a future in raising farm animals, not because he tastes good and I wanna eat him.

Don't forget that realizing something is delicious is not just value for Hachiken eating it himself. It made him realize the value of the animals as food in general. It makes people happy to eat them because they are delicious. It is not something as trivial as "This tastes great, I wanna eat more." It is more like, "So this flavor can make someone feel happy, I now understand why people kill and eat meat."

Yeah, the "4th" option would work as well. The reason I limited to 3 above was that they were the 3 available options given his current dilemma,

or he no longer loves Butadon like a pet and should have no worries already.

As for Mikage, I found that she was really quick to deny that anything happened over the summer when she was asked by her senpai. Either she was aware of Hachiken's feelings and just wanted to deny them, or it's her usual response to her senpai's (frequent?) pestering questions.

Buffalobiian

Thu, 09-12-2013, 08:33 PM

HS - Episode 10 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=472410)

David75

Thu, 09-12-2013, 11:43 PM

I raised it, I loved it.
But since I can eat it and it tastes good, it's alright.

End of the internal fight.

Kraco

Fri, 09-13-2013, 04:19 AM

Mikage was awfully quick to drop the chalkboard eraser when she overheard the rumours. She must harbour some real feelings she's only suppressing.

This was the only realistic outcome of the Pork Bowl question. The other choice would have been to transfer from the animal side to the plant side or drop out of the school entirely. However, I have a feeling Hachiken would rather eat meat than leave Mikage behind, even if nothing else had stopped him.

MFauli

Fri, 09-13-2013, 02:20 PM

i feel such a crass disconnect to what i just saw. is this japanese people being less emotional about animal life in general? it comes off as so incredibly shallow how being tasty solves all moral dilemma. there was nothing clever about the outcome, no twist or anything. just tasty being the ultimate excuse.

at least we have confirmation that mikage cares about hachiken in more ways than just being friends.

shinta|hikari

Fri, 09-13-2013, 06:33 PM

I think Hachiken is trying and should go for the fourth option. 4) Butadon is not a pet, I should be able to eat him (or allow him to be slaughtered at least) if I want a future in raising farm animals, not because he tastes good and I wanna eat him.

I guess I was on the mark.

Buffalobiian

Fri, 09-13-2013, 10:52 PM

The thing that made it flow was that Butadon ended up walking up the ramp on its own. Now imagine if it tugged at Hachiken's pants, which meant Hachiken had to send him off instead of just watching him go.

That would have been interesting to watch.

Reading shinta's quote closely, this problem could be looked at in two ways:

Whether Hachiken could eat Butadon, or whether Hachiken should eat Butadon. Guess Hachiken himself settled with could and managed to do it.

Kraco

Sat, 09-14-2013, 02:08 AM

Whether Hachiken could eat Butadon, or whether Hachiken should eat Butadon. Guess Hachiken himself settled with could and managed to do it.

I disagree. He went for should. Otherwise he wouldn't have bought the meat. If it was just could, he would have gotten away with just watching Pork Bowl go and disappear, with slim chances of ever seeing a trace of its meat. However, by buying the meat, he doomed himself to facing all aspects of the reality of raising farm animals, from the beginning till the end. In other words he manned up, toughened himself, and above all didn't run. After all, he has decided he's done with running. Becoming a vegetarian or other shit like that would be fleeing the reality for him, considering the school he's attending.

It's hard to say how much the farm-born students ever individually considered this whole issue, but it's possible Hachiken has taken responsibility on a much deeper level than most of those who just grew up to that style of life.

Buffalobiian

Sat, 09-14-2013, 07:51 AM

I disagree. He went for should. Otherwise he wouldn't have bought the meat. If it was just could, he would have gotten away with just watching Pork Bowl go and disappear, with slim chances of ever seeing a trace of its meat. However, by buying the meat, he doomed himself to facing all aspects of the reality of raising farm animals, from the beginning till the end. In other words he manned up, toughened himself, and above all didn't run. After all, he has decided he's done with running. Becoming a vegetarian or other shit like that would be fleeing the reality for him, considering the school he's attending.

Whether or not he bought the meat doesn't differentiate between could/should. It just gives him the opportunity to test it out instead of avoiding the issue and never finding an answer to it. Whether he could eat Butadon tests whether or not he could physically withstand eating the meat (either by disconnecting his feelings while he eats, or somehow being able to hold both values equally yet consciously), while the question of whether he should tests whether he thinks eating Butadon is right or wrong.

I suppose from the beginning it never was a question of should for him, since I can only remember him thinking "I can't eat that".

As for Hachiken vs other students, the other kids never considered (or at least no longer consider) animals as beings that deserved some sort of consideration beyond their market value. They consider livestock property that were raised for the purpose of being sold for profit and therefore should be nothing more. Like slaves.

Hachiken sees them as fellow living beings and was thus confronted with the dilemma of killing/destroying them.

Buffalobiian

Fri, 09-20-2013, 12:07 AM

HS - Episode 11 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=474682)

MFauli

Fri, 09-20-2013, 02:47 PM

hm, im hesitant to comment, since that serious expression on hachiken´s dad´s face could be entirely deveiving. let´s say it is what it looks like. so hachiken´s dad is some stubborn hardass who doesn´t care about a son that doesn´t follow a "proper life". kinda know that feeling :( depending on how much drama this anime wants to achieve, the bacon will either cause his dad to understand, or his negative reaction will cause a complete break up with his son. kinda interesting.

im kind of disappointed how easily hachiken gave away the bacon. thought itd be more precious to him.

MFauli

Fri, 09-27-2013, 01:29 PM

no episode this week? :/

Ryllharu

Fri, 09-27-2013, 02:49 PM

Rather than spout off a random line of vitriol, I actually can't blame you for thinking this, considering the season-ending shot is "To Be Continued..." and is fairly abrupt.

Series restarts in January.

MFauli

Fri, 09-27-2013, 02:56 PM

ugh, so it really was the last episode ...

yeah, i didnt see last episode as a "last episode", rather as a build-up for a dramatic final episode. oh well ...

shinta|hikari

Fri, 09-27-2013, 07:27 PM

Rather than spout off a random line of vitriol,

This was unexpected, considering who you are talking to.

I actually got neg repped for inviting him to other threads.

Ryllharu

Fri, 09-27-2013, 08:20 PM

Ryllharu's benevolence is a rare and beautiful thing, befitting of this series. This and Uchouten Kazoku were major surprise hits for me this season. Quite the change from her last series, FMA.

MFauli

Fri, 01-10-2014, 02:29 PM

season to has started!

-----------------------------

I hate how Hachiken cannot simply ask Mikage about her problem. It feels so forced how they don´t come together regarding her issue, whatever it is.

"Hey, Mikage, why did you cry?"
"Oh, im fine. Its got nothing to do with you."
"But it really bothers me. I dont want to see you like that."
"I ... I cant tell you, sorry, Hachiken."
"If you cant right now, that´s okay. But I will ask you about it again, and again, and again-"
" Hachiken ..."
"- until you open up to me. I know that you´re not the person to tell others their problems easily, which is why I wont give up."
".... okay *smiles*"

SEE HOW EASY THAT IS. :P:P:P

Anyway, still a great anime, just feels good watching it.

oyabun

Fri, 01-10-2014, 02:37 PM

It is not that simple or easy. Unless you want the girl to be annoyed with you, then I guess you can do that.

Ryllharu

Fri, 01-10-2014, 03:09 PM

I wasn't particularly impressed with this episode...but it's a setup episode, so I'll forgive it.

Don't care for the OP or ED sadly. Quite a step down from S1.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 01-11-2014, 12:12 AM

Hachiken is also worried that it might be a romantic thing between the two childhood friends. Part of what is preventing him from asking more forcefully is likely fear that his suspicions are correct.

Buffalobiian

Sat, 01-11-2014, 12:41 AM

HS - S2 Ep01 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=510247)

--------------------------

It's going to be something like Komaba's mum being sick so he's asking Mikage and her family to help out with his farm since he can't give up baseball just yet. Or maybe a horse died. Or something like that.

shinta|hikari

Sat, 01-11-2014, 12:56 AM

It would be great if Komaba actually confessed or something. A twist like that would do this series good since it spices things up a bit.

MFauli

Thu, 01-30-2014, 04:00 PM

good episode, though without any real plot progression. bit stupid how intelligent horses are depicted in this show, lol.

on a more serious note, im really disappointed in the hentai-community. nothing for mikage :/

Buffalobiian

Fri, 01-31-2014, 07:17 AM

HS S2 Episode: 02 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=512855), 03 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=515421), 04 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=518005)
good episode, though without any real plot progression. bit stupid how intelligent horses are depicted in this show, lol.

on a more serious note, im really disappointed in the hentai-community. nothing for mikage :/

There's one promising article, but no online versions yet.

The episode was really fun. Time flew by and it finished before I knew it.

shinta|hikari

Fri, 01-31-2014, 10:28 AM

It's funny how a guy who does not know anything about riding is pissed about getting 4th place.

MFauli

Thu, 02-13-2014, 02:20 PM

Walking back by foot instead of taking the bust, when you just stayed in hospitel from overworking yourself. !!1

Good episode.
Hachiken´s father is too much a villain though, lol. Takes a dump on his son everyway he can.

Mikage is delicious. Somehow, she seems way more attractive than in season 1. And best of all: She´s now definitely romantically interested in Hachiken, unless this episode was a troll. Promising. I actually can´t remember a lot of anime with a successful love plot, where romance wasn´t the main theme. Would be fantastic if they made Hachiken and Mikage becoming a couple a major theme, and consequently showing how their lifes proceed. Oh fuck, I wonder what his father would say. "Got yourself quite a looker. Now have fun for a bit and then find a proper match, son" or "choosing some broad from the county. Die in a fire, son"? Could go either way. :/

MFauli

Sat, 02-22-2014, 07:38 AM

not sure where else to ask: What´s with Gin no Saji and Samurai Flamenco? No episodes this week? :(

Buffalobiian

Sat, 02-22-2014, 07:52 AM

Probably Olympics getting in the way again. It happened to Magi last week, so why not.

I generally check Crunchyroll's page to see when the next episode airs if it seems delayed. If the page isn't available because of licensing restrictions then you just view Google's cached version, which is usually updated no more than a week ago.

MFauli

Thu, 02-27-2014, 05:13 PM

oh god, i will be so mad if Hachiken and Mikage dont become a couple. Right now it seems to progress somewhat, but at the same time it feels like Mikage is slipping further away from him. Ugh.

Question about baseball: Is someone an ace pitcher even if he lets the batter hit his throws, or does that only happen to bad pitchers? Wondering about the difference between reality and anime. Since in sports anime, your ace pitcher almost always throws perfect strikes, whereas here in Gin no Saji they made it look like Komaba was a very good pitcher despite giving the batter some hits.

Ryllharu

Thu, 02-27-2014, 06:39 PM

Question about baseball: Is someone an ace pitcher even if he lets the batter hit his throws, or does that only happen to bad pitchers? Wondering about the difference between reality and anime. Since in sports anime, your ace pitcher almost always throws perfect strikes, whereas here in Gin no Saji they made it look like Komaba was a very good pitcher despite giving the batter some hits.
There's a difference between ace pitcher (Kitamura in Cross Game) and a closer (Komaba currently). The ace pitcher might even play the whole game (pretty unusual in reality tournament play), where a closer relieves the pitcher who went most of the game and prevents any additional runs, mainly by getting outs.
Ace pitchers are starters, closers are a reliever.

Pitchers get worn out pretty easily. MLB will rotate pitchers heavily between games, sometimes even 3-4 days during playoffs.

There's also a difference between a shutout and perfect game/no-hitter.
- A shutout can allow hits and even have players get on base, but it is a single pitcher the entire game (a "complete game") with no runs for the opposing team.
- A perfect game means no one on the opposing team ever made it to base. No-hitter is pretty obvious, though it allows for Errors (like the one we saw at the end of the game) where a perfect game must also have no errors. A perfect game has only happened 23 times in the history of MLB (21 times since 1900), and 16 times in Japan's highest league.

Augury

Thu, 02-27-2014, 10:02 PM

To add a bit more, a starting pitcher in the MLB is said to have made a "quality start" if he pitches six or more innings and allows three or fewer earned runs. However, that's an ERA (earned run average, or earned runs per inning) of 4.5, and (U.S) broadcasters that I've heard consider an ERA of 3.00 or less to be excellent. Conversely, starting pitchers with an ERA of 2.0 or less are very rare, so allowing 2 runs in a game overall is already very good, not to mention just hits.

Baseball is a game of failure, for both pitchers and hitters.

MFauli

Fri, 02-28-2014, 10:13 AM

"No episode announcement before postingn episode content"

what the hell. go look it up yourself, you lazy neg-repper! :/

Buffalobiian

Fri, 02-28-2014, 10:20 AM

"No episode announcement before postingn episode content"

what the hell. go look it up yourself, you lazy neg-repper! :/

It says no announcement, not no link. However:

HS - Episode 05 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=520424), 06 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=522738), 07 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=527402)

----------------------------------

I don't remember if the show said this or if I guessed it, but there will be no next year for Komaba. This is his one and only chance to go pro. He should have made an agreement with his family that if he goes to the finals he'll play professionally, but if he fails then he'll take up the family business.

oh god, i will be so mad if Hachiken and Mikage dont become a couple. Right now it seems to progress somewhat, but at the same time it feels like Mikage is slipping further away from him. Ugh.

That's because Mikage seems uncomfortable around Hachiken whenever romance is brought up. It's unclear whether she's "going out" with him right now out of attraction, obligation or confusion.

shinta|hikari

Fri, 02-28-2014, 11:56 AM

She clearly likes him. They just both suck at expressing it.

Ryllharu

Fri, 02-28-2014, 04:55 PM

Mikage's frequently recurring problem is that she never goes after what she wants out of life. Everyone knows it. Everyone in her family, all her friends at school, Hachiken, and even some of the teachers. She feels stuck and duty-bound to take over the dairy part of the farm, when horses are her true passion.

Hachiken's is that he gets crushed by the expectations of his father (or others) that he feels he can't live up to. He accomplishes pretty much everything he sets out to do when he isn't overwhelmed by the threat of failure. Every time he gets overwhelmed with assignments from other students, they eventually get guilted into picking up the slack. Eventually he'll learn to say no.

Hachiken is in dairy science. Especially lately, the staff at the school makes sure Hachiken is caught up on all the parts of farming (particular dairy) that everyone else grew up with. By the time he graduates, he'll be an expert, and he is starting to love this life over his old one. Mikage's family owns a dairy farm, but "secretly" doesn't want to succeed it (though she's a ditz and everyone can read her like a book).

They're a match made in heaven.

MFauli

Thu, 03-13-2014, 02:48 PM

fucking finally!
Cant wait for next week. This episode was great for many things. Not only did Mikage finally speak out for herself. She and Hachiken seem to get real close to each other now.

One aspect that I´m disappointed about is that Hachiken couldn´t use his superior intelligence for finding a way to do anything for the farms. But I guess this anime wants to keep it realistic, so that´s okay, too.

Ryllharu

Sat, 03-15-2014, 06:09 AM

One aspect that I´m disappointed about is that Hachiken couldn´t use his superior intelligence for finding a way to do anything for the farms. But I guess this anime wants to keep it realistic, so that´s okay, too.
If he really wanted to save the Komaba farm financially, he should have asked Tamako for advice, not the teachers, his idiot roommate, or random club members. She's absolutely ruthless in business. Whatever solution she came up with would have been hard for the Komabas (and Mikages), but it probably would have worked. If asked, she'd either help for the challenge, or let Hachiken know how hopeless it was in a concrete logical manner so that he wouldn't have to have been so torn up about it.

Hachiken may be the smartest all around person in his class (or maybe even the school), but his classmates destroy him on an individual subject basis, whichever their specialty happens to be.