One Piece Episode 604-605

[LaZie]

Since nobody decided to make a thread...I shall!

CCS-Speed Episode 604 720p (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=452382)

CCS-Speed Episode 605 v2 720p (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=454855)

[DarthEnderX]

Yay! Threads!


So glad when Sanji showed up to fight Vergo. Time to finally start pairing people off into their opponents.

[Kraco]

So glad when Sanji showed up to fight Vergo. Time to finally start pairing people off into their opponents.

For that piece of discussion we actually need the Episode 606 - NWTChuu (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=457256).

I didn't foresee Sanji fighting this guy, but I suppose it makes sense with Vergo being an unarmed fighter, by the looks of it. Although I'm still not sure he doesn't have a fruit power of some sort. Tings sticking to his cheek might suggest something, but who knows. I can't help but wonder who's Zoro going to fight, if anybody. Luffy at the very least is facing Caesar again and I doubt he would want assistance in the fight. That leaves very few potential opponents unless the frozen dudes suddenly thaw (not that unnamed opponents would still make very exciting opponents). Not to mention we still have Law hanging around as well. This looks a bit asymmetric. Usopp should fight Monet for a while; he seemed so scared of her back then.

Actually, Zoro should fight Tashigi. Just for the laughs. I wouldn't expect Captain-chan to last very long, but such a scene might present some comedy and good lines.

[DarthEnderX]

Wait...I thought they already revealed that Vergo was some kind of metal Logia...

Or, wait, was that just him doing the same thing Luffy does with Armament Haki? If so, why is that a thing all of a sudden? Armament Haki never used to do that.

[LaZie]

For that piece of discussion we actually need the Episode 606 - NWTChuu (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=457256).


Totally forgot 606 was out. CCS hasn't released theirs yet.

[Kraco]

Totally forgot 606 was out. CCS hasn't released theirs yet.

Nor will they. There was some reason posted on their page, but I forgot what it was. Probably an exam or a mom died or something like that.


Wait...I thought they already revealed that Vergo was some kind of metal Logia...

Or, wait, was that just him doing the same thing Luffy does with Armament Haki? If so, why is that a thing all of a sudden? Armament Haki never used to do that.

I don't recall them telling what kind of a power he might have, or even hinting anything, aside from the strange ability to make stuff hang onto his face (some stickiness spiderman ability?)

There might be some inconsistency about the Armament haki, yeah. But at least it has some lesser forms like the one used by the CP9 agents. However, when Luffy has used it as a weapon, it has looked similar to Vergo's.

[DarthEnderX]

But at least it has some lesser forms like the one used by the CP9 agents.I don't think the Six Powers have anything to do with Haki.

I mean, Coby was trained to use Soru long before he ever awakened his Haki.

[Kraco]

I don't think the Six Powers have anything to do with Haki.

I mean, Coby was trained to use Soru long before he ever awakened his Haki.

I think it is haki. Unless you can provide me with a canon proof it's not, of course, since with my memory I might have very well forgotten such already... Coby awakened his sensory haki (or whatever it's called), the same as the mantra the dudes in the clouds used, but that's an entirely different thing.

Didn't Luffy answer two others from his group can use haki when Law asked? That's obviously Zoro and most likely Sanji who can walk in the air in the same manner as the CP9 agents, and possibly do other things as well.

[Assertn]

Yeah, the black is just armament haki. Oda decided to make that a thing now, probably so it's easier to tell when it's happening.

[DarthEnderX]

I think it is haki. Unless you can provide me with a canon proof it's not, of course, since with my memory I might have very well forgotten such alreadyWell, I would point out that, like, 4 of the Six Powers have no connection with the three types of Haki that supposedly exist.

Shigan and Tekkai's effects could easily be accomplished with Armament Haki.

But Kami-e, Geppo, Rankyaku and Soru's effects don't fall under any of the abilities of Armament, Observation or Conqueror's Haki.


Didn't Luffy answer two others from his group can use haki when Law asked?Yes, Zoro and Sanji.


Sanji who can walk in the air in the same manner as the CP9 agentsAgain, how does spirit armor or life sense allow you to air walk?

[Kraco]

Then what does? It doesn't seem like a perfectly ordinary skill for anybody with a mind to try. I think the fact some of the CP9 techniques could fall very nicely under the most solidly established (thoroughly explained) haki types rather reinforces a theory they are all haki than undermine it. How would Luffy even have known about Sanji otherwise? Luffy never looked like a too insighthful man to me, so he probably has to see something to come to think about it, let alone realise.

Tekkai allows one to ignore cannon fire. I don't think any martial arts muscle tension would go quite that far, even if it allowed you to ignore the fist punches of some weakling. Yet it doesn't require a fruit power, only skills and willpower. If that's not haki, then what it is? An identical power for the exact same result but with a different name?

Zoro is so badass you don't really need any proof, of course.

[DarthEnderX]

Tekkai allows one to ignore cannon fire. I don't think any martial arts muscle tension would go quite that farYeah, because normal martial arts training allowing you to do impossible things would be SO out of character for this show.


If that's not haki, then what it is? An identical power for the exact same result but with a different name?Yes?

I'm sorry, but if all 6 of them can't be explained as Haki, then chances are NONE of them are.

The fact is, when Raleigh was explaining the different types of Haki to Luffy, they went out of their way to show you several examples of different points in the series where that Haki had already been seen before. And at no point in any of the 3 explanations did any of the Six Powers get brought up.

If Oda wanted those abilities to be Haki, he would have revealed that fact at that time.

[Kraco]

I won't really accept Raleigh's speech as some kind of word of god: he's just a pensioner who never had an ambition of his own.

I guess I will wait and see.

[DarthEnderX]

I won't really accept Raleigh's speech as some kind of word of god: he's just a pensioner who never had an ambition of his own....what?

[Assertn]

Lest we forget, this guy (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Nero) could utilize 4 of the 6 rokushiki techniques, and he was a total scrub back then. Plus, hasn't any of the CP9 members used shigan on Luffy and have it bounce off him to no effect? I know Lucci was an exception, but he had to use his animal form to be able to pierce Luffy.

[Kraco]

Lest we forget, this guy (http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Nero) could utilize 4 of the 6 rokushiki techniques, and he was a total scrub back then.

That seems like evidence at a first glance - until you remember the whole Amazon Lily island can use haki. So, it's really nothing so uber special.


Plus, hasn't any of the CP9 members used shigan on Luffy and have it bounce off him to no effect? I know Lucci was an exception, but he had to use his animal form to be able to pierce Luffy.

Haha, yeah. I was trying to think back to that earlier, but, alas, my memory fails me so miserably I couldn't recall anything so specific from the arc. Though I still don't know why Lucci would be an exception intrinsically (considering this haki/not haki discussion). Using a zooan fruit power should make zilch difference in that sense. He just had to use the power because Luffy was too tough to beat otherwise.

[DarthEnderX]

Bah, no episode this week!


Though I still don't know why Lucci would be an exception intrinsically (considering this haki/not haki discussion). Using a zooan fruit power should make zilch difference in that sense.Because it has claws.

Luffy is immune to bludgeoning attacks. He can still be cut and pierced.

A normal Shigan won't effect Luffy, but a Shigan done with a leopard claw will.

[Kraco]

A normal Shigan won't effect Luffy, but a Shigan done with a leopard claw will.

Do you remember a scene where one of the CP9 tried shigan against Luffy and it didn't work? That's what Assertn was asking and I didn't remember either. That would naturally immediately tell it's not haki, because haki negates totally any fruit power effects. If you can tell me the ep and minute with such a scene, I will admit full defeat. If shigan is not haki, I won't bother to defend tekkai either. Then it's just one more example of how muscle is tougher than steel or explosives in the shounen universe (makes Franky look kind of stupid if a normal human body is tougher than a cyborg body, though).

[DarthEnderX]

because haki negates totally any fruit power effects.No it doesn't. Haki just allows someone who can't be hurt normally BECAUSE of a fruit power(for example, a Logia) to be hurt.

It doesn't turn off their powers though. It's not Sea Stone.


Then it's just one more example of how muscle is tougher than steel or explosives in the shounen universeIt's actually based on a real martial arts technique known as "Iron Shirt".

[DarthEnderX]

EDIT: Double post

[Assertn]

Do you remember a scene where one of the CP9 tried shigan against Luffy and it didn't work? That's what Assertn was asking and I didn't remember either. That would naturally immediately tell it's not haki, because haki negates totally any fruit power effects. If you can tell me the ep and minute with such a scene, I will admit full defeat. If shigan is not haki, I won't bother to defend tekkai either. Then it's just one more example of how muscle is tougher than steel or explosives in the shounen universe (makes Franky look kind of stupid if a normal human body is tougher than a cyborg body, though).

I don't remember any specific occurence, but according to this: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Rokushiki#Shigan
the shape of the finger makes a difference between whether or not it is able to pierce luffy.

Also, I don't know where they got this from, but they also say this:
Tekkai is similar to Busoshoku Haki, as both reinforce the users body in some way, the difference being that Haki is based on the user's willpower and Tekkai is based on the user's physical power.