Why do all "JAPANESE" anime characters (Specifically Naruto) look white?

[Prophet]

Since this inquiry can't easily be answered locally, i'll try internet forum route. ;)

Before i get to the essence of this topic, let me elaborate first. I've never really been into anime, but my little brother has been begging me to get into it, so I tried getting into naruto, since it was so popular. Just to see WHY exactly it was popular.

After the first ten episodes i realized something that made no sense.... there were asian people, in an asian environment, speaking Japanese...... that look COMPLETELY white. There's no way that you can convince me that a blonde haired, blue-eyed pale kid with an orange track suit is in any way shape or form ASIAN.

So i was thinking okay, maybe this is an anime that has American people in it. Sequentially, my brother suggested that i watch this show called Death Note, which ALSO took place in japan. So i was like ok cool. Now before i bash it i must say that the Shinigami looked EXTREMELY cool, but, once again, the show looked like an American cartoon with caucasian characters, and Japanese voice actors. Almost like a joke. I saw the first episode, but i didn't progress any further.

I don't have any prior knowledge as to how Anime looked in the olden days, since i was busy studying my ass off, so i didn't know if the characters have always looked like this or not, but either way.... WHY? Do Japanese people hate themselves, and how they look? Does this in anyway tie in to the plastic surgeries they have to look like white westerners? They proudly display their culture in the shows (that i've seen, which were naruto and death note)... but the characters don't even look SLIGHTY like Japanese people. I'd expect to delve into JAPANESE anime to see cool JAPANESE anime characters do COOL things.... but all i'm seeing is supposedly Japanese characters that look like white kids, and random boobs flying around anywhere.

Am i missing something? Can someone please clear this up for me?

- Thanks.

[Buffalobiian]

Anime characters are drawn and designed so they're interesting. They're just people/characters. Unless the anime was specifically something rather historical or patriotic, you don't go out of your way to make everyone look "Japanese".

[shinta|hikari]

I guess it's like how Homer Simpson doesn't look remotely American, or human for that matter.

[fireheart]

A friend sent me the youtube video long ago I think, though I remember it differently.

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/08/30/guest-post-why-do-the-japanese-draw-themselves-as-white/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7NtqjdggI

[Buffalobiian]

Ahhh, the good old noseline-matching sequences. As hand-picked as it is, it's still pretty funny to watch.

[Archangel]

It's just one of those question that can't be answered, like "Why can't we ever get any new members who aren't complete fucking idiots?"

You'll just have to grow to accept it as truth like i have.

[Kraco]

It's just one of those question that can't be answered


Can't be answered? It has been answered quite sufficiently by revealing it's a false assumption.

[DarthEnderX]

I guess it's like how Homer Simpson doesn't look remotely American, or human for that matter.This.

It's an art style. That is all.

[Buffalobiian]

It's just one of those question that can't be answered, like "Why can't we ever get any new members who aren't complete fucking idiots?"

You'll just have to grow to accept it as truth like i have.

No need for attacks. It's a valid question and observation.

[Yukimura]

Every anime newbie has to wrestle through questions like this before finally realizing that there doesn't need to be a reason and just accepting that this is how the art style has evolved over time and forming their opinion on how important this or that aspect of it is to their enjoyment of it.

I can see why some old farts like many of us on the forums might sneer at this sort of thing. There should be sections on many an introduction to anime guide that talk about this and suggest people just not worry about it, but still people keep asking, and it gets annoying to see the same question asked and answered again and again and again. Noob harassment is just another part of the journey into anime fandom, unpleasant as it may be.

[shinta|hikari]

Only one person harassed him though.

[Buffalobiian]

Every anime newbie has to wrestle through questions like this before finally realizing that there doesn't need to be a reason and just accepting that this is how the art style has evolved over time and forming their opinion on how important this or that aspect of it is to their enjoyment of it.

I didn't have to wrestle with it.. >_>

While The Simpsons is an example, it's more of an exception than a rule - portrayals of characters in Western shows (in a Western society setting) often do resemble real human ethnicities (even if they do have football shaped heads).

It also has a fair bit to do with the way Japanese think of themselves too, in my opinion. Western society is more racially heterogeneous due to immigration, colonialism and slavery. I don't think I'm wrong to say we're more racially aware from a younger age due to this exposure. Japanese on the other hand tend to consider themselves a homogeneous bunch. When the characters on screen are all going to after-school activities in their white slip-on shoes after cleaning the hallway.. the various hairs and eyes don't flag themselves as "foreigner" anymore.

The bigger giveaways are the noses and accents.

[Death BOO Z]

we had this discussion a few times before, one from the DB:E movie thread (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/15190-Movie-Dragonball/page26).

there's also a link somewhere to an explanation that 'normal' anime faces actually do look like asian, in terms of their faces being rounded and less pointy-edged than 'white' faces.

points in short:
1. you're projecting. you view white as 'normal' and consider every normal character to be 'white'.
2. anime character faces are actually more Asian than Caucasian.

[lelouch]

Do you want every character to look the same?

[Buffalobiian]

Do you want every character to look the same?

Are you saying we all look the same??

[Shinji Ikari]

A friend sent me the youtube video long ago I think, though I remember it differently.

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/08/30/guest-post-why-do-the-japanese-draw-themselves-as-white/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7NtqjdggI

Good youtube clip, I feel it's almost racist calling anime characters "westerners" and I'm a Swede :S. It's like a person is so blinded by his own perception of the world that he just refuses to understand or see just by looking in a different way and has to be taught something so basic.

Clip also really shows why western cosplay sucks so bad it hurts.

But enough of the beating. If you want to see an awesome fun action anime look up Black Lagoon. There you see a few distinctions between how japanese people draw different nationalities (of course that is also within the framework of that particular animes art style (there are soooo many different art styles in anime it's almost ridiculous))

[Pandadice]

I think the real travesty here is that Naruto and Death Note were the attempted "gateway" anime.

ps. i think it's worth mentioning Flowers of Evil. Given it's rotoscoped designs, the characters are literally traced over Japanese actors. I dunno if we have a thread for it here or whatever, but after reading some other forums' threads on it there seems to be a lot of discontent with the designs. Here a show essentially features totally realistic Japanese designs and people go "wow that's ugly! get it off my screen!"

To continue the "normal" interpretation argument, it's almost as if the characters of Flowers displayed too many specifically Japanese features; therefore the western audience (the only one I'm listening to--no idea what the Japanese audience is saying on it) can't project whiteness onto the characters and thereby feel uncomfortable. The characters resemble too specifically the eastern notion of beauty, so the western notion can no longer be inserted latently into the viewing experience.

Of course, had this been an original anime with obvious "realist" designs, many wouldn't watch to begin with but many wouldn't mind the designs and could indeed move past them without difficulty. But given the generic, undefined, "default" designs of the manga, when it is transitioned into "realistic" designs the viewer's original interpretation of "white" is shifted and rejected so that she must reconcile the character as non-white. The fan isn't going to say "I enjoyed the 'white' designs because I could identify with them, and these Japanese ones are really ugly because I possess an alternate conceptualization of beauty," but, whether acknowledged, the situation is the same.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't fully agree with the Flowers of Evil argument because only 1 girl in that show was actually attractive. It was a better portrayal of real life humans physically, Japanese or not. Anime on the other hand tends to make even the normal classroom girls attractive to some degree, so the beauty thing isn't just all in the mind like you think.

It's the same reason the "hot childhood friend" scenario is actually unrealistic.. because if your friend was really so attractive you wouldn't have maintained such a tensionless relationship with them until high school. In reality any childhood friends like that would already be people you don't consider as potential partners.

[Pandadice]

oh crap i typed up this post and then hit "reply to thread" instead of "post quick reply." what does the auto-saving thing do, can i get my draft back? eh whatever i'll just try and retype the message.


I don't fully agree with the Flowers of Evil argument because only 1 girl in that show was actually attractive. It was a better portrayal of real life humans physically, Japanese or not. Anime on the other hand tends to make even the normal classroom girls attractive to some degree, so the beauty thing isn't just all in the mind like you think.
Yeah, honestly I was just kinda dicking around with that Flowers of Evil thing.

But I do agree with you that it's more a rejection of quasi-realism as a whole and not specifically Japanese. It's that uncanny valley stuff. We need to have a certain degree of unnaturalness or simplicity to our drawings to make them easy to relate to. It's the same with the old videogame sprites, or just pixel art in general; the simplistic designs allow for enough "unknown" in the character that you can fill in the gaps with your mind, and the characters become easier to relate to.

It's the same reason the "hot childhood friend" scenario is actually unrealistic.. because if your friend was really so attractive you wouldn't have maintained such a tensionless relationship with them until high school. In reality any childhood friends like that would already be people you don't consider as potential partners.
As far as my own experience goes I agree completely. But as a counterpoint I would like to point to Emma Watson. Actually, I can't seem to find it, but I recall seeing an image that showed the kid v. young adult comparison for a handful of actors and they all experienced some degree of "Watson transformation" (that's why they made the image obviously).

But, perhaps you wouldn't notice the transformation if you're a consistent friend and watch the growth gradually. You would miss out on the "hotness bloom." However, if you went to a knew school (start high school or something) then chances are other guys would notice the hotness, and this might shift your own perspective as we base a lot of our opinions on the views of others.