Suisei no Gargantia

[Kraco]

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/8918/gargantiass01.jpg

"The story begins in the distant future in the far reaches of the galaxy. The Human Galactic Alliance has been constantly fighting for its survival against a grotesque race of beings called "Hidiaazu." During an intense battle, the young lieutenant Redo and his humanoid mobile weapon Chamber are swallowed up into a distortion of time and space. Waking from his artificially induced hibernation, Redo realizes that he has arrived on Earth, the planet on the lost frontier. On this planet that was completely flooded by the seas, people live in fleets of giant ships, salvaging relics from the seas' depths in order to survive. Redo arrives on one of the fleets called Gargantia. With no knowledge of the planet's history or culture, he is forced to live alongside Amy, a 15-year-old girl who serves as a messenger aboard the Gargantia fleet. To Redo, who has lived a life where he knows nothing but fighting, these days of peace continue to surprise him." -ANN

Links: AniDB (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=9556) | ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=14961) | Official (http://gargantia.jp/)
Genre: Action, Mecha, Post-apocalypse, Sci-Fi
DL: Episode 1 - UTW-Vivid (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=421286) | HorribleSubs (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=421361)






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A very good looking show, was my first thought. It reminded me immediately of Macross Frontier. The fancy, shiny technology and all the technobabble only made it still better when they suddenly switched to the rustic and rusty island ship. The contrast is so huge. I can't help but like the setting of the dude finding himself in such an alien place, surrounded by people whose lifestyle couldn't be much more different. I liked the designs immediately. The battle looked really chaotic, which is kind of nice, because realistically that's how it would appear. It would take a big budget to keep the visuals at this level till the end, so I'd expect this ep to be a special case.

This is written by Urobuchi Gen, so I can't honestly say I'd have any idea how it's going to develop and end. The setting gives a very traditional kind of feeling, with a lone guy separated from his society and thrown into a totally different society perhaps permanently, but who knows with Urobuchi. And no, I'm no worshipper of this man's shadow, but I do think I don't know what to expect from him, that much credit I give him readily.

Ledo (Redo) is voiced by Ishikawa Kaito (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=34296) (uhh... no previous roles worth mentioning) and Amy by Kanemoto Hisako (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=12266) (Ika Musume, Kotoura). They both seemed to perform well enough.

I'll certainly keep watching this.

[KrayZ33]

I like the setting, but its always a facepalm moment when I see them shooting a bazillion rockets or lasers at the same time
that attack "formation" was painful to watch too and what were these little shields they carried even good for.
and I can't say I'm a fan of that mecha-design, looks like a chibi version of what could've been a fearsome mech. the very last scene was over the top too if you ask me, what kind of artifical intelligence would show off with flips and screws like that (and it looked kinda horrible too)

aside from that, the stuff going on in general...and MCs rather clever approach to analyze the situation got my attention, I'll keep watching this too

[David75]

I liked that first ep for its visuals and overall shiny appearance.
But as Kraco mentionned, we won't get that till the end. I'm even wondering if we'll have much of the space humans, maybe to see them lose to the plants...
And if it's a slice of life, I wonder what we'll get on a rusty ship

Regarding the space fight, it's true that their all out attack was idiotic at best.
With their hyperspace technology, you'd think they'd be able to wipe solar systems with some kind of time-space bomb.

I was also surprised they didn't anticipate the regeneration speed of the giant canon. Sure you can always be surprised by a sudden leap in technology your enemy might have had, but an all out attack needs at least an alternative that should incapacitate your enemy enough so that you can at least retreat and organize the next battle.

[animus]

I kinda liked it. Will follow for now at least.

[MFauli]

I´m not even 5 minutes in, but I´m about to drop it. Bland and cheap artstyle and animations. The cockpit scene was a poor man´s EVA copycat.

Will give it another try if it gets lots more positive feedback from other Gotwooters.

[shinta|hikari]

This show is horrible, so please drop it.

[Archangel]

Only thing you'll be able to judge from this episode is that it has good visuals, and even that might not be something they'll be able to deliver on a constant basis.

It didn't do anything so terrible that would turn me off from it so i'll just keep watching and form my opinion eventually.

[David75]

There are some trully appalling subs for ep2, did try a French one since I won't be home tomorrow. Worst idea ever.
Friendly reminder, do not make the same mistake ;)

[David75]

12 hours later, proper subs:
[UTW-Vivid]_Suisei_no_Gargantia_-_02_[h264-720p][739A99E9].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=423283)

[Kraco]

This is shaping up to be one of the very top shows of this season. I was happy with the first ep already, but this made it even better, since this is actually already fully in the setting that's probably going to last till the end. Because I doubt the dude is getting back to space any time soon.

There are so many good things to say about this. Chamber is one of the good individual details. An advanced AI as lost among the barbarians as the pilot himself, making things funny with the detached, logical attitude. I also like a lot how the relations have developed so far. These people are somewhat primitive in their limited hunter-gatherer societies, and it was pulled off quite well how they were balancing between viewing the mecha as nothing but a treasure to be turned into cash and raw knowledge (and feeding Ledo to the fishes) and on the other hand being very cautious, not knowing what they were dealing with. Ledo, being as lost as he is, wasn't making any progress either. Naturally it would then take some busybody like Amy to crack the stalemate.

I'm looking forward to seeing how completely eliminating the pirates will change things. It does reveal something about Ledo's background and the Alliance's situation that he was so utterly ruthless. If it's a society in a life and death battle with the aliens, then there's little room for lenghty trials or other peaceful methods. Ledo doesn't really seem like a violent person, though, which makes this even more interesting. However, I got a feeling these natives never intended to slaughter them, even if they could have by some means.

I really like this so far. I could barely hold back laughter during the "carcass of a marine creature" scene. Chamber's method of flying looks quite novel compared to the usual engines making mecha fly, though it might not end up making any larger difference in practice, aside from the looks.

[KrayZ33]

I didn't expect that... *poof* and they were gone, thats both badass and heartless at the same time

no words for this other than "cool"

[David75]

I know (hope) they won't tell us the bad guys were teleported somewhere since we've had ep 1 with what seemed to be real deaths.
Also, the pirates really did some killing during their assault.
Amy, as young as she is, has a gun. Etc.

Maybe the only real gripe is how you vaporize 60-80kg of matter making it look like a very nice light effect... instead of a gorry hot explosion of meat/bones and body fluids.
I guess we also need an explanation for lasers that seem to change directions.

Then, I too subscribe to the idea that Ledo probably has been too rough. His stunt is a double edge sword as he can be seen as a great asset, as much as a great danger.


Rest of the ep, except the negotiations for communication, was mostly slice of life, not much to say, just a different society that lost losts of techs and R&D and never really recovered.

[Kraco]

Maybe the only real gripe is how you vaporize 60-80kg of matter making it look like a very nice light effect... instead of a gorry hot explosion of meat/bones and body fluids.
I guess we also need an explanation for lasers that seem to change directions.

Under different circumstances that would have bothered me as well, but since the very beginning of the show is still so fresh in mind, I don't really care. Or actually care at all. After all, these weapons were totally useless against the aliens. They used some far bigger and terrible weapons as well, but even those didn't deliver sufficiently.

[Inazuma]

God this was glorious. Fuck you beams that instagibs everything from squirrels to battleships, Anti Gravity Directional Townsend field(?), sleek mecha design, Ai on par with Al (FMP), good animation, ...
This is going to be a real contender for best Scifi anime for sure.

[Archangel]

Complete dominance doesn't even begin to describe it, it's like cavemen trying to fend themselves off against a tank.

[shinta|hikari]

Understatement. An entire planet with Gargantia's technology could not defend itself against that kind of force.

[Ryllharu]

Personally, I'm most interested in the Gargantia crew's reaction to his cold, utter brutality. He probably thinks nothing of it at all, it was clean, completed his objectives, and allowed for minimal effort and minimal casualties to his own allies. Ledo and Chamber will view it as perfect success.

Amy is going to think of it as overkill, and even Bellows is likely to be horrified, considering that she and the other female members of her crew were about to get used as sex slaves and then murdered.

As for how you vaporize someone to sparkly dust? A controlled molecular bond disruption laser, similar to the device from Ender's Game. Maybe one specifically tuned to only break carbon-hydrogen-oxygen bonds, so it stops from chain reacting with the atmosphere. Or, since it blew up the boats but vaporized the people, it is a dynamically-tuned Convenience Beam to keep unnecessary gore out of the series.

[Kraco]

considering that she and the other female members of her crew were about to get used as sex slaves and then murdered.

Are you sure about that? I got a feeling the pirate captain wanted Bellows to join their clan, but since that wasn't likely, he was just trying to shake her up a bit until they are ready to depart with the loot. All in all Bellows & Co's reactions seemed like it wasn't necessarily the first time they got robbed by pirates, even if not these exact same ones.

But who knows, they didn't really get to talk overly long before Ledo paid a visit.

Amy gives so innocent and happy-go-lucky vibes that it will interesting to see her reaction in particular. Will she be able to repeat her friendly approach now that she knows this starman isn't against blowing it.

[Ryllharu]

Depends on how you take that line. Usually we see the scenario where a bunch of thugs walk up to an unescorted girl and ask her to, "hang out with them for a while." If they are with a male companion, they get asked if they want to hang out with them instead of their "loser" companion. Their intentions are fairly clear, and they don't usually rip off another girl's shirt when they first get rebuked.

But, I guess their pirate leader is a woman too, so who knows. Still, ripping off the other girl's shirt settled it for me.

[David75]

My guess is that everyone on earth is like a big familly and the difference between a pirate and what Bellows does is very thin.
They probably even were childhood friends or know well most of the pirates.
So even if there are fights and some deaths, it's not like it's an all out war.

Somehow, AI simple words just enhanced how different it is for Redo: Their enemy is dangerous and there's absolutely no room for coexistence.
I would not be surprised Ledo's action backfire on him.

[Kraco]

I would not be surprised Ledo's action backfire on him.

Yeah. The boss of these pirates will be wondering how the whole fleet, men and ships, suddenly disappeared entirely. Gargantia probably won't be too happy if they get extra attention from a pirate clan, since it's not like Ledo was any solid part of their defense plans. He was never a friend for anybody but Amy, sort of. For the rest, he was an unknown danger or material opportunity. But now it could very well be that Ledo's their only hope against a threat the very same Ledo brought upon them.

[David75]

I'm pretty sure with the way they master lasers, there's a stun mode or at least a no kill one. And it would have been enough in the context.

Regarding the clean kills, i'm still a little bothered... as when Ledo did holes in that white thing, smoke appeared. Not with the kills.

Well, we'll see.

[shinta|hikari]

The laser maybe some sort of matter altering attack, changing the organic mass into its base components, like carbon, and other gases.

[Inazuma]

The third episode is out.

Guys, this is Production IG going full steam and teaching how to do Mechanime even with major plot complications such as a really overpowered element and not making it boring.

I won't spoil, but you'll get some more action, some more quirky language translation bits and no one is going to get edgy over the fact that he is a killing machine, on the contrary !
Get to it
Enjoy.

[David75]

I was a little afraid quality would drop after ep 2. Why? because EP1 and 2 were on a free BR disc given at some convention, as promotional material. So I was in fear they'd just spend a lot on those to ep to get attention from the fan community and then lower their standards for the other eps. It could still happen, but not from ep3 it seems.

So now, problems are solved for earthlings side, remains Ledo with his main problem: going back to his fleet, hoping the plant monsters won't find him and earth before that. Unless those monsters are weak to sea water...

[Ryllharu]

The only thing that really bothered me was where both the Fleet and the Pirates were getting all their heavy ordinance from.

I can buy that they can salvage entire ships, I can buy that they can build their own small arms and ammo (though I wonder where they get the gunpowder), but both fleets were firing an awful lot of heavy armament. You can't exactly manufacture that kind of stuff safely onboard vessels in any kind of large scale production.

Especially the pirate fleet, which isn't remotely on the same scale of Gargantia nor did it have any kind of infrastructure and production ships like Gargantia has.

[Inazuma]

If they can manage running subs, underwater friendly mechas and ships with the kind of water displacement I have been seeing so far, them firing anything from 20mm to 125mm, that they have been manufacturing or recovering isn't that far fetched. Ryl.

There was some mecha lobster on a rocket powered jet ski thing. I don't think supply chain and manufacturing are that sci-fi when it comes to that.

[Kraco]

There was bound to be some pacifism in this show, but fortunately it makes perfect sense. Especially since manufacturing and resources are scarce. It's a good question where the pirates get their extra stuff in addition to those they steal. Ammunition isn't actually such a problem since that would be valuable loot, but those special lobster mecha didn't look like they were stolen from one of the more peaceful floating cities. Perhaps the pirates have some cooperation among themselves and have a giant floating base of their own, where they have decent manufacturing capabilities.

Amy has been quite a cookie-cutter character so far, but I don't mind. The eps have been around Ledo and Chamber anyway, and Amy has served the part of a happy civilian quite admirably, to give some perspective and contrast. Since those two must be the couple of this show, I'm looking forward to seeing how their world view's will continue to clash.

I wonder why Ledo and Chamber decided not to use the beam weapon. It's not like they couldn't have disabled cannons with it. Maybe the plan was to downplay their role so that Gargantia wouldn't seem to be totally dependent on them and to avoid making Ledo the sole target of any assassination attempts.

[Ryllharu]

@Inazuma
Yeah, but they explained away all the underwater mechas last episode. They're usually seen on umbilicals (presumably comms and air), but are definitely electrically powered. The entire fleet gets all the energy they need from the Electric Algae Flows/Ocean Currents.

Manufacturing ordinance is dangerous shit, requiring large quantities of highly explosive chemicals.

[Archangel]

The only thing that really bothered me was where both the Fleet and the Pirates were getting all their heavy ordinance from.

I can buy that they can salvage entire ships, I can buy that they can build their own small arms and ammo (though I wonder where they get the gunpowder), but both fleets were firing an awful lot of heavy armament. You can't exactly manufacture that kind of stuff safely onboard vessels in any kind of large scale production.

Especially the pirate fleet, which isn't remotely on the same scale of Gargantia nor did it have any kind of infrastructure and production ships like Gargantia has.
Well lets assume they are being produced somehow, and the pirates got them by theft ( as often pirates do ).

If anything bothered me it was Gargantia's hypocrisy. You can't actually kill them, but wreck their means of transport set everything on fire and leave them stranded in the middle of the ocean and we're good. It'd be more merciful to just turn them into space dust in the first place.

[Kraco]

Well lets assume they are being produced somehow, and the pirates got them by theft ( as often pirates do ).

If anything bothered me it was Gargantia's hypocrisy. You can't actually kill them, but wreck their means of transport set everything on fire and leave them stranded in the middle of the ocean and we're good. It'd be more merciful to just turn them into space dust in the first place.

Hardly. They would have enough ships left to salvage working parts and somehow make it away from there. Especially considering Gargantia's gunners seemed poor in comparison to the pirates. In any case this was a special situation since the pirates were out for blood after Ledo's earlier stunt. I guess Gargantia could have now wiped out this entire clan of pirates, but if we assume pirates work together (in order to manufacture stuff), then there's no knowing if the rest of the pirate clans would try to retaliate. It was explained quite explicitly in this episode that the balance of a sort that exists needs to have the pirates to stand higher on the dangerousness scale. If Gargantia's crew was made of cutthroats, they wouldn't care and would have, now that they have Ledo, started a campaign to kill everybody they don't like, pirates and competitors included, but fortunately they aren't such killers. They are civilians wanting a peaceful life for themselves and their children.

Not that they could even count on having Ledo and Chamber for any specific amount of time. They could have slaughtered all the lobster pirates now, but what if Ledo had disappeared a week later? They would have needed to face the rest of the pirates with few means of defending themselves. Other civilian ships and fleets might have also started to avoid them, in fear of being linked to Gargantia in pirates' minds.

[Buffalobiian]

UTW-Vivid - Episode 03 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=426091)


Chamber rules. Spinning the pirates mercilessly in the air while chanting "Give up. Give up. Give up. Just Give up." made my day.

I can see Ledo's logic where he questions why it's okay to kill animals while it's not okay to kill humans. Gargantians are also dipshits for blaming Chamber. You asked for help, you got it. If anyone was to blame, it's Amy. She asked for help she didn't actually want.

Bellows reminds me of Yoko, so we need more of her.

Overall, great 3 episodes. The retro feel is like steampunk but not. I have to wonder at how they source all their metals. There must be one hell of a recycling plant on board since manufacturing from fresh ore seems highly improbable. The turnover must be pretty high given their maritime use.

Also, about the premises. If all the ice in the poles melted we'd still have some land left, right?

[Death13a]

Also, about the premises. If all the ice in the poles melted we'd still have some land left, right?

Assuming no other apocalyptic events happened like nuclear war for remaining of land, meteor bombardment, ice age, etc, or all of above. Those that escaped into space assumed that Earth was beyond recovery to point that they didn't bother to actually map their way out of their solar system so that someday they might attempt to recover it. What surprises me is that they managed to travel between stars almost instantaneous and they aren't able to terraform a planet, not to mention to find a livable one.

[Kraco]

What surprises me is that they managed to travel between stars almost instantaneous and they aren't able to terraform a planet, not to mention to find a livable one.

Did they actually say that, or could it be that they have lost all the promising planets they found to the aliens? Otherwise, in light of what we know now in RL and how sophisticated technology Ledo's people seem to possess, finding and terraforming suitable planets should be relatively easy. Although that would also depend on if they took anything with them from Earth. If they have got no Earth bacteria, algae, plants, and animals essential in terraforming, it could be much harder.

There should be plenty of land, especially mountains, still above the sealevel on Earth, but I guess they decided not to have any for the sake of the story. Maybe some huge water ice comet hit Earth and doubled the amount of water...

[Buffalobiian]

Assuming no other apocalyptic events happened like nuclear war for remaining of land, meteor bombardment, ice age, etc, or all of above. Those that escaped into space assumed that Earth was beyond recovery to point that they didn't bother to actually map their way out of their solar system so that someday they might attempt to recover it. What surprises me is that they managed to travel between stars almost instantaneous and they aren't able to terraform a planet, not to mention to find a livable one.

Places like Mt Everest and most "high" places probably aren't strategic enough to bomb the shit out of, so I wouldn't expect them to be blown to smithereens. It's all of your coastal cities these days.

As for the way back to the planet, it seems that they lost the records over the 1000s of years that mankind has left earth. If it was a desperate enough attempt to leave, space-mapping may not have been good enough back then.


Did they actually say that, or could it be that they have lost all the promising planets they found to the aliens? Otherwise, in light of what we know now in RL and how sophisticated technology Ledo's people seem to possess, finding and terraforming suitable planets should be relatively easy. Although that would also depend on if they took anything with them from Earth. If they have got no Earth bacteria, algae, plants, and animals essential in terraforming, it could be much harder.

From Ledo's reaction, it seemed that a planet with water and breathable air wasn't even considered a possibility. The lack of success from their pioneering efforts must have made them think that such a planet was an impossibility.

[David75]

My take on this is that those plant enemies were created by humans...
How/why I don't know, but it is possible it also was the reason they left earth. I would even stretch it by tinking they did create the permanent winter to try and eradicate that enemy.
But those plants evolved and kicked back and tracked them to the confines of space and at some point humans lost records in some ships to those monsters that did not exploit data (or it was not possible to recover it)

The other possibility is that humans had to leave for another reason that is not valid anymore obviously, but then in space they still created their enemy. Maybe it was a failed atempt at teraforming precisely... They created some biomachines to speedup the atmosphere creation and those bio-machines evolved.
Why the idea? Because Chambers is a purely artificial and technical product. There's absolutely nothing biological about except the pilot... So even if humans had the idea to explore the biotechnologies, they had to limit themselves to agriculture in artificial environments.

Pure speculations, I know.

[Kraco]

I believe mecha sporting bioengineered components are a minority in anime. So, it'd be quite brazen to draw a conclusion humans would be afraid of biotechnology because their mecha are purely mechanical. There's not enough information yet to think the situation is analogous to Galactica being afraid of computers.

[Inazuma]

I believe mecha sporting bioengineered components are a minority in anime. So, it'd be quite brazen to draw a conclusion humans would be afraid of biotechnology because their mecha are purely mechanical. There's not enough information yet to think the situation is analogous to Galactica being afraid of computers.

Or similar to an enemy described in Eva Renewal 13 : Angel Invades.

[Buffalobiian]

UTW-Vivid - Episode 04 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=428464)

[animus]

This and Shingeki no Kyojin are my favorite series this season.

[Buffalobiian]

This is and Shingeki no Kyojin are my favorite series this season.

These two rank highly, that's for sure. Valverave gets some consideration as well.

Amy's sparkly eyes are great, as are Ledo's clear amethyst ones.

[Kraco]

For some bizarre reason I never thought about it before, but now I wonder if Chamber could actually turn out to be a problem soon. Considering how readily people undesirable to the war effort are pruned and how advanced and thus probably highly expensive the battlemecha must be, it would make sense Chamber had an auxiliary task of also monitoring if the pilot has become unusable, that is, has started to question the logic behind the Alliance's ruthless treatment of its citizens and the never-ending war. It's not like Chamber would actually need Ledo for anything on Earth. It's simply waiting for retrieval in order to get back to fighting. If it judges Ledo is no good, it could leave him behind (or even eliminate him) and prepare for the next pilot.

Chamber is clearly responsible for much fun in this show, so it would be sad if it disappeared.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't think he'll do that, because despite his overall superiority he is still submissive to Ledo. The program must be written such that he'll obey and support the pilot. Monitoring brainwaves would come under one of those tasks like a doctor. Even if we say that Chamber will betray Ledo for the Alliance, I don't think it would happen until they find their co-ordinates or receive word from HQ.

[Buffalobiian]

UTW-Vivid - Episode 05 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=430848)

[David75]

Talk about overkill, using such a weapon as a barbecue grill :D

I guess that "filler/slice of life" was necessary to show how Ledo slowly meshes into the Gargantian community.
It was also useful to show us the size of the thing, how they have some agriculture, cows and the likes.

Now I guess we need another crisis.

I like the water/air glider a lot.

[Kraco]

It was also useful to show us the size of the thing, how they have some agriculture, cows and the likes.


Size of the thing... Like the relative sizes between the various women's assets. Quite a fanservice episode, and I didn't dislike this at all. Although I do hope, as well, that we will get another crisis.

Poor Ledo needs something to do in any case. If Chamber has lots of energy, he could easily make a living out of flying between the various fleets all over the world. But we haven't really been told how much energy stores the mecha has.


I like the water/air glider a lot.

Yeah, it's a cool device. Quite surprising it could generate enough lift for two people, though.

[Ryllharu]

I guess that "filler/slice of life" was necessary to show how Ledo slowly meshes into the Gargantian community.
It was also useful to show us the size of the thing, how they have some agriculture, cows and the likes.
I'm reasonably sure that the "filler" was the space battle at the beginning and the pirate battle. The meat of the story is slice of life and Ledo's integration into non-military life.


It still bothers me that they are able to obtain luxury items like sunscreen. Are they mining minerals from the ocean floor, or just salvaging? Swimsuits don't bother me because cool clothing that dries quickly are obviously vital for life on the fleet. I keep thinking this series should be less like pacific atoll life and more like Waterworld.

[Buffalobiian]

It would be nice to know how much time has passed since Ledo woke up. He's picking up the language, but to gauge his intelligence I'd need to know whether this happened over 6 days, weeks or months. He's gotten used to eating carcases, that's for sure.

I'm sure there will be some sort of trigger later on that will cause humans to appreciate having their own energy source, which Ledo would be able to help with.

@Kraco: if it was a nuclear reactor or something, Chamber could go on for quite some time.

[shinta|hikari]

Due to the size and output of Chamber, I think it can replenish its own energy reserves. Having a limited supply of energy does not make sense considering the absurd technology we have seen Chamber use. Slower than light bending lasers...

[Buffalobiian]

Wouldn't unlimited energy be more absurd? Chamber landed in the bottom of the sea for six months, or are you suggesting he's got a large reserve, as well as some super-efficient solar panels tucked away somewhere?

[Ryllharu]

It's a Palladium Reactor. I bet the Lambda Driver is running all the time too.

( ￣ω￣ )

[Archangel]

It's a Palladium Reactor. I bet the Lambda Driver is running all the time too.

( ￣ω￣ )
Third season never :/

[shinta|hikari]

@Buff - I meant Chamber had the ability to use energy from other energy sources, like stars, chemical reactions, whatever. Energy conversion/absorption makes much more sense than simply having a large battery.

[Inazuma]

Third season never :/

That pains me so fucking much.

[David75]

[HorribleSubs] Suisei no Gargantia - 06 [720p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=433084)


-------------------------------------------------

Pretty much the usual pace. But then a cliffhanger.

No, I'm wrong. Ledo felt something for Amy. Too bad the budget has been low for that ep.
Again for the dancing ep, like for Magi.

Regarding the last scene, I was wondering if the confirmed enemy was in fact the same species but a branch that did not evolve and remained on Earth. Or if it is some kind of scout that happened to catch/follow the distress signal.
Since its water motion seemed very natural and Ledo reacted strongly to the octopus, the earth version is quite probable.
The only strange thing is that Chambers was able to detect it and have a 99% identification.
If it's really an earth born Hideauze, that would mean most characteristics did not change much.
And here it gets good:
That means the humans from space might be able to study the Hideauze from earth safely and find lots of weaknesses and how to fight the space ones.
That could also mean that when humans fled earth, they brought Hideauze that evolved to become their enemies. And both races evolved in their fight against one another, leading them to a life system that is ridiculous.

If on the other hand it really is a space Hideauze, Earth is doomed...

[NeoCybercoin]

One other option is that the Hideauze aren't an alien species. Just a out of control experiment. Those Lightbugs are freaking nanomachines that roam the ocean. Might as well be a result of that experiment.

[Ryllharu]

I would say it is more likely that the Hideauze are circumstantially 99.7% related to squids, and this is a whalesquid that was mentioned earlier in the episode.

Just because they are close, doesn't mean they are identical. Most terrestrial vertebrate life on Earth is over 70% related.

Otherwise this was a rather romantic episode between Ledo and Amy, animation fails during the dance scene aside.

[David75]

Yes the whalesquid, but somehow I'd like a little more action from the show ;)
And since the pirates did not last very long...

[Kraco]

Episode 6 - UTW-Vivid (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=433198)

My first thought was Ledo had brought a piece of Hideauze with him and it had regenerated (since they seem to excel in that). However, I've to say your theories sound more interesting. It looks like both sides, Earth and space humans, have lost much lore, so it's quite possible the space humans brought some genetically engineered creatures with them from Earth that later went berserk. In such a case it's quite natural the leadership would erase from history the origins of the enemy and simply brainwash everybody to think it's a space alien bent on destroying mankind. The lightbugs might be related to these things as well. I guess Bellows's reaction in the next episode will reveal that. If she has never seen this thing before, then it could be more probable Ledo brought it from space.

But yeah, a very nice episode, despite the animation problems. It's good Ledo is interacting more with people, especially Amy. There's definitely starting to be something between them, even if Ledo has no idea what. Another good scene was Chamber requiring assistance from Ledo, because it was sort of sad to see a gap growing between those two.

[shinta|hikari]

If Ledo wanted to, he could get into the pantsu of every female (and some males) in the show.

I was surprised by his embarrassed reaction after touching Amy. I would have thought that kind of emotion would be quite useless in the world he lived in.

[Buffalobiian]

I was surprised by his embarrassed reaction after touching Amy. I would have thought that kind of emotion would be quite useless in the world he lived in.

Useless, but I think he shied away from it as a natural reaction rather than a necessary one. Being military, I'd imagine he had same-sex segregation and was only recently granted the right to reproduce. He's a boy touching a girl directly for the first time. Emphasis on boy.

The money is on the white animal being the whalesquid and is rather harmless (at least not as dangerous as the space variety).


One other option is that the Hideauze aren't an alien species. Just a out of control experiment. Those Lightbugs are freaking nanomachines that roam the ocean. Might as well be a result of that experiment.

Would you extend that hypothesis to Earth freezing over as a result of an experiment rather than a solar phenomenon?

As for the menu, I'll take with a little more meat thanks. Regular is just fine as well.


[ASL]_Chihara_Minori_-_Suisei_no_Gargantia_OP_-_Kono_Sekai_wa_Bokura_wo_Matteita_[FLAC].rar (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=430057)
[ASL]_Chihara_Minori_-_Suisei_no_Gargantia_OP_-_Kono_Sekai_wa_Bokura_wo_Matteita_[MP3].rar (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=430058)

[David75]

Regarding the man crafted Hideauze theory, I did write something days ago. I think I even had the idea that the permanent winter might have been caused by mankind to try and get rid of the species. But I'm not so sure and I'm too lazy to even go there. Not that it matters in the end ;)

What I like in the makind crafted enemy idea, is that somehow the Hideauze can't survive in space without food... and that's what mankind probably is.
The allmighty technological human, trying to mess with an organism, shifted it's way of life and preys to humans themselves, creating a new kind of foodchain/ecosystem that is viable in space. But at the same time, Hideauze have no other alternative to survive, they have to hunt humans. Thus the struggle that dragged on for so long.
And for a reason, despite the great distance covered by both species, they never were able to find a planet where they can settle.

Should the Hideauze find a planet where they can integrate, I wonder if they'd still go after humans.

But that's all pure speculation on my part.

[Kraco]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Hideauze in space wasn't in fact so huge a threat. Maybe it's the humans that have been going after the creatures relentlessly, but if they stopped, Hideauze wouldn't do anything anymore. That could be explained by the leadership of space humans wanting to maintain the current status and order. There could be a privileged class of citizens, after all. Another possibility is that humans still have something the Hideauze want. Such as a space version of those lightbugs or some version of Hideauze itself, basically working as slaves to maintain humanity's ability to exist without a planet.

I think your theory, David, is a bit of a stretch if this story does have a bigger ending of some sort. The story hasn't made any effort to avoid giving such a grim and cold picture of Ledo's home that it wouldn't surprise me if it was the humans doing something wrong, causing the neverending war, not Hideauze.

[Inazuma]

Squids eat green power bugs
Hideauze eats fusions bombs (see ep1)

The Squid attacks Ledo because Chambers is basically a super bug producing shitloads of energy.
Energy will be the link and basically the threat is basically scaled from earth to space in order to match the strenght difference.

Now, I just want to enjoy the series and not care about why, how, plot points or bad animations. Sometime you gotta just enjoy it, consume and be consume by the entertainment.

[Inazuma]

There you go people.

http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=435165

[David75]

So, we've got the same species. Although with a different exosqueleton adapted to marine life I guess (And Hideauze's to space life?)

We also have a different approach on how to deal with them. And no war. The idea that space Humans are in fact responsible for the never ending war seems to be spot on (Kraco?)

[Killa-Eyez]

[UTW-Vivid]_Suisei_no_Gargantia_-_07_[h264-720p][912CAD96].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=435251)

[Kraco]

We also have a different approach on how to deal with them. And no war. The idea that space Humans are in fact responsible for the never ending war seems to be spot on (Kraco?)

Perhaps. However, if Ledo is correct and Hideauze attack as soon as too much noise from electronics and possibly other machines is produced, then it's certainly not humanity's fault. But if Hideauze only attack after they have been attacked first or their territory clearly invaded, then it's certainly humanity's fault. It does seem like they are attracted by electricity and other signs of civilization, at the very least. Obviously humans in space can't live without all that, so it might be a situation of no avoidance - assuming Hideauze actually do go after humans in space (and not only retaliate after humans attacked first). But then again, if the war has been going on for centuries, Hideauze might have evolved/adapted to it, becoming hostile even if they originally weren't. Just like Ledo's people are so through and through militaristic.

Quite interesting development nevertheless. Ledo actually got a chance to show his true nature. I wonder if he really thinks he can make a difference all alone and without any of the bigger, external weapons, especially with Chamber's internal weapons useless undersea. It would seem like wisdom to only scout around, trying to contact his people, rather than irritate the Hideauze colonies without any real means to win bigger battles.

[Buffalobiian]

Obviously humans in space can't live without all that, so it might be a situation of no avoidance - assuming Hideauze actually do go after humans in space (and not only retaliate after humans attacked first). But then again, if the war has been going on for centuries, Hideauze might have evolved/adapted to it, becoming hostile even if they originally weren't. Just like Ledo's people are so through and through militaristic.

"Fault" is really tricky to handle. In our own world, the human population keeps expanding which in turn demands more natural resources. To avoid overcrowding, invading additional territories is one such solution. Let's speculate that Hideauze populations remain stable:

-One could argue that the Hideauze have (initially) established a good territorial boundary, and by breaking those bounds the humans have committed a crime against them. It's humanity's fault for not planning their survival based on their available resources.

-One could also argue that if humans became more numerous, it's only natural that they demand more resources. Every living being deserves their share on the planet, so the resource allocation should be made based on life-form quantity regardless of species.

We could always just take our barbaric approach as well and say "Might makes Right". Every species tries to secure its survival, so if one of them thinks that requires a monopoly, who is in a position to tell them otherwise? Fight it out, and winner takes all.

The definition of "provoke" is also pretty damn subjective. Hideauze only attack when provoked, but swarming you with numbers of 1000 is pretty damn provoking. Arguably you'd feel more "provoked" and scared by that than if one just slapped you on the face.

If anyone was to blame here though, it's Bellows for lacking foresight. "So we're with this guy who kills pirates because they're dangerous..oooh, look he pulled gun on a cooked octopus! lololol, wonder what he'd do when he sees a whalesquid. /joke" I don't really blame her.. but we could see it coming.

edit: oh, and the "shirt grabbing" scene when Bellows doesn't wear a shirt nor a tie? I found that hilarious.

[Kraco]

We could always just take our barbaric approach as well and say "Might makes Right". Every species tries to secure its survival, so if one of them thinks that requires a monopoly, who is in a position to tell them otherwise? Fight it out, and winner takes all.

It only became a dilemma when Ledo, whose people have been following that might makes right principle for generations, arrived at Earth where coexistence was the guideline. Earthlings have also been living for generations like they are now, and it's quite natural they can't breed like rabbits considering they have no land. Hideauze live underwater, so as long as they don't seriously compete for food, or other resources, they can keep living like this forever.


The definition of "provoke" is also pretty damn subjective. Hideauze only attack when provoked, but swarming you with numbers of 1000 is pretty damn provoking. Arguably you'd feel more "provoked" and scared by that than if one just slapped you on the face.

Well, it was Ledo, and thus Gargantia, that attacked and slaughtered a whalesquid first. There's no reason to assume Hideauze would have gathered without that incident. I'd say killing a member of the opponent is quite a bit worse than just swarming.


If anyone was to blame here though, it's Bellows for lacking foresight. "So we're with this guy who kills pirates because they're dangerous..oooh, look he pulled gun on a cooked octopus! lololol, wonder what he'd do when he sees a whalesquid. /joke" I don't really blame her.. but we could see it coming.

These people are so easygoing that they forget too fast Ledo is a real soldier, a profession these folks in fact haven't got to begin with. When Ledo and Chamber performed a few civilian tasks that benefitted the fleet, the people of Gargantia pretty much forgot what Ledo was trained and Chamber built for, despite the pirate conflict. In fact there might have been quite a few among them who never believed in any war against space aliens and probably thought Ledo is nothing but a lunatic spaceman.

It was Bellows's fault, but considering her peaceful background, it's hard to blame her. Just like it's hard to blame Ledo for something he has been practically bred for. Just before coming to Earth he watched his comrades get killed one by one by Hideauze, so it's not so easy for him to forget and let go.

[Buffalobiian]

It only became a dilemma when Ledo, whose people have been following that might makes right principle for generations, arrived at Earth where coexistence was the guideline. Earthlings have also been living for generations like they are now, and it's quite natural they can't breed like rabbits considering they have no land. Hideauze live underwater, so as long as they don't seriously compete for food, or other resources, they can keep living like this forever.

Until someone brings up a thought like "What if Hideauze decide to kill us one day, what can we do against them then?" (Ledo did it this week, actually). It's a feeling of insecurity that can only be 100% eliminated by eliminating the enemy.


Well, it was Ledo, and thus Gargantia, that attacked and slaughtered a whalesquid first. There's no reason to assume Hideauze would have gathered without that incident. I'd say killing a member of the opponent is quite a bit worse than just swarming.

You're talking about what happened this episode. I'm speculating about other scenarios. There was an article I read a few months back where (I think there was some sort of riot or demonstration) some guy stopped a car from leaving and hit his bonnet. I don't remember exactly how far he went, but the driver sped off and injured the man who stopped him (he most likely died). The courts ruled that it was not self defence because the driver was not at risk of harm in the car. I'm not so ready to agree with him.

"Noise" has been suggested to be provoking to whalesquids this episode. Maybe they don't know what it is and it scares them.
A human could have just as easily been scared by a provoking "greeting" by a passing-by swarm of Hideauze.

The idea isn't to compare how provoking things are, but to highlight the fact that between two different and mutually unintelligible species, various "harmless" actions could be taken by the other party as being provoking. Going by this episode, the whalesquids were rather forgiving. If both sides took "an eye for an eye" approach, all it takes is a single harmless trigger to snowball into a galactic war.

[Kraco]

Yeah, humans and whalesquids have been living like that, tolerating each other, for who knows how long. The geezer captain even knew immediately what to do (stop all machines and be silent), which suggests close encounters have happened before, though not too often since the younger folks were ignorant.

It's true that if enough fear is brewed, more and more people would begin to think of exterminating the whalesquids, creating a situation similar to Ledo's people and Hideauze. However, these people all in all seem very peaceful so it'd take a lot to turn the tide to a bloodlust. Even if there are some among them, like Pinion, who have a personal reason to dislike the creatures. Many hold them sacred, after all.

[shinta|hikari]

There is also the fact that the only way to reliably kill a whalesquid on earth is Chamber.

Humans are simply not on top of the food chain in their world.

[Archangel]

The crew's attitude towards Ledo is a little annoying, aren't they aware he's the pilot of a fucking mechanical God of Death? I'm not even sure the bullets would work on him, Chamber might protect him or he might have some force field around his suit or something.

He fucking eliminated a whole crew within seconds a few days ago, what makes them think pointing a few pea shooters will do them any good?

On a more lighthearted note, have you guys noticed Ledo gained a nice tan? Compare this episode to the first and it's pretty noticeable.

[shinta|hikari]

oh, and the "shirt grabbing" scene when Bellows doesn't wear a shirt nor a tie? I found that hilarious.

How much skill must one have to be able to grab those two spaghetti straps in one motion?

[Buffalobiian]

How much skill must one have to be able to grab those two spaghetti straps in one motion?

Less than the will required to not look down. :p


The crew's attitude towards Ledo is a little annoying, aren't they aware he's the pilot of a fucking mechanical God of Death? I'm not even sure the bullets would work on him, Chamber might protect him or he might have some force field around his suit or something.

He fucking eliminated a whole crew within seconds a few days ago, what makes them think pointing a few pea shooters will do them any good?

I think bullets would work. He's equipped to fight Hideauze in space, personal armour against flying shrapnel isn't likely to be a defence he has.

I have a feeling that at least two weeks have passed now, or maybe that's just because it's been 7 weeks for us. By the 2nd or 3rd ep he took to eating meat pretty well.

[shinta|hikari]

I think a lot of time has already passed, maybe a month.

[Kraco]

The crew's attitude towards Ledo is a little annoying, aren't they aware he's the pilot of a fucking mechanical God of Death? I'm not even sure the bullets would work on him, Chamber might protect him or he might have some force field around his suit or something.

What would you have them do? They were sure that if Ledo attacked the whalesquids, the creatures would retaliate against the whole fleet. At least pointing their ancient weapons at Ledo showed they are deadly serious, after all, they knew just as well as Ledo that Chamber could vaporise them in an instant so they were risking their lives trying to stop him. That, if anything, tells Ledo they weren't joking around. Besides, this whole incident was caused by Ledo once again heedlessly attacking, even if as his boss Bellows bears responsibility as well.

All in all I'm quite satisfied with this turn of events. As nice as it was to watch the slice-of-life eps of Ledo desperately trying to do something useless but getting mainly used for entertainment by the locals, it's still good we got back to serious stuff. After all, the beginning of the show was mortally serious. This doesn't need to be another Hataraku Maou-sama, where there is a 500% disparity between the beginning and the bulk of the show.


I think a lot of time has already passed, maybe a month.

Yeah. I don't think just a couple of weeks would be enough for Ledo to catch so much of the language either.

[Archangel]

I think bullets would work. He's equipped to fight Hideauze in space, personal armour against flying shrapnel isn't likely to be a defence he has.

If he has a gun i'm sure he has personal defense systems as well.

[Buffalobiian]

If he has a gun i'm sure he has personal defense systems as well.

Latex?

If chamber doesn't have a force field, I doubt Ledo has one either.

[shinta|hikari]

His suit may be bullet proof. If they have bending lasers, it is only logical that they can and would make pilot suits protective enough to at least prevent shrapnel from tearing into the pilot, and such a feature will work on bullets as well.

And no one is going to shoot him in the head. Based on the comments of the loli, his face is too handsome for that.

[Death13a]

No one would shoot hit as it would create noise and whalesquids would attack Gargantia. It was only show of determination.

And Chamber would vaporize them before they could pull trigger or just bullets in flight. Only Ledo's self control kept turning Gargantia into battlefield and Ledo right now is pretty much Captain Ahab seeking Moby-Dick.

[Kraco]

Only Ledo's self control kept turning Gargantia into battlefield...

It's more like his lack of self-control kept turning Gargantia into a battlefield. He has a tendency to jump the gun. That might be understandable in light of his original world where there was only one inhuman enemy that was attacked automatically on sight with all firepower at hand, I reckon. So, in the past there was no need for him to decide if something was an enemy or if it needed to be destroyed completely or just scared away.

[Archangel]

What would you have them do? They were sure that if Ledo attacked the whalesquids, the creatures would retaliate against the whole fleet. At least pointing their ancient weapons at Ledo showed they are deadly serious, after all, they knew just as well as Ledo that Chamber could vaporise them in an instant so they were risking their lives trying to stop him. That, if anything, tells Ledo they weren't joking around. Besides, this whole incident was caused by Ledo once again heedlessly attacking, even if as his boss Bellows bears responsibility as well.

He's like a God in that world, they should thank destiny every day he wakes up and doesn't decide to vaporize them all.

[Kraco]

Petit Gargantia 1-3 - UTW-Vivid (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=436722)


Some chibi Gargantia shorts. They were pretty funny, but won't eat more than a few minutes (all of them combined) out of your life.

[Buffalobiian]

UTW-Vivid - Episode 08 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=437355)

[Shin-S] Suisei no Gargantia ED Single - Sora to Kimi no Message [ChouCho].zip (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=435965)
[Shin-S] Suisei no Gargantia ED Single - Sora to Kimi no Message (FLAC) [ChouCho].zip (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=435964)

------------------------------------------










This will be interesting, I wonder under what circumstance the two fleets will end up meeting again. A pirate attack would be kind of lame since Gargantia would look like so weak and powerless without their muscles, but I don't exactly see Flange simply coming back with a bunch of treasure. Flange isn't a pirate type, but that's not to say he's overly generous either.

Amy's side of things wouldn't be very adventurous without Ledo sparking things up, and the whole Gargantia is full of conservatives who are pretty happy with their status quo. I have a hard time trying to think of what they'd get up to other than float-and-live.

The best thing this episode was the reveal of some serious bonds between Ledo and Amy. On that note, perhaps Melty would convince Ledo somehow to go back.

[Kraco]

One possibility would be the ragged remains of Flange's fleet, largely wasted by whalesquids, coming back to Gargantia. I suppose Ledo would survive at least, since he's the main character and didn't even sire a child with Amy so I can't see him dying. But who knows, maybe it won't end with such dim prospects, although we do know from the preview shit is going to hit the fan, and I'd think it a bit strange if the human side didn't suffer at all.

It does indeed look like Ledo already care for Amy and Bevel, but it's not so easy to shake brainwashing the length of his life. Especially now that he practically had to accept the fact he has lost it all. Although I'd find it a bit strange there would be no records of Earth known to at least the leadership of the Alliance, but since they hadn't ever come back, I guess they just suddenly wouldn't during Ledo's lifetime.

Nevertheless, it's quite interesting the fleets splitting was largely due to Ledo's presence. Pinion intends to use Ledo to distract the whalesquids so he can rob the treasures, and Flange listened to Pinion. If they end up suffering major losses, I wouldn't be surprised if people accused Ledo.

[Buffalobiian]

One possibility would be the ragged remains of Flange's fleet, largely wasted by whalesquids, coming back to Gargantia. I suppose Ledo would survive at least, since he's the main character and didn't even sire a child with Amy so I can't see him dying. But who knows, maybe it won't end with such dim prospects, although we do know from the preview shit is going to hit the fan, and I'd think it a bit strange if the human side didn't suffer at all.

Where is this preview? UTW doesn't have it.

I don't think the people can do much about losing to whalesquids. Pinion enlisted everybody, so he's the one everybody would talk shit about. Ledo didn't even formally enter an agreement with Pinion. He basically said "I'm going to kill squid. You can have the scraps."

[Kraco]

Where is this preview? UTW doesn't have it.

Sure it does. I only watch the UTW-Vivid releases. The preview is on the sail of the sailing ship that Amy passes towards the end of the ED.


I don't think the people can do much about losing to whalesquids. Pinion enlisted everybody, so he's the one everybody would talk shit about. Ledo didn't even formally enter an agreement with Pinion. He basically said "I'm going to kill squid. You can have the scraps."

Yes, I'm sure people would blame Pinion as well, but in the end Ledo is an outsider nobody can really understand, equipped with a killing machine and a will to use it. They would naturally blame Ledo. People always blame outsiders, whether there's any basis for it or not, if only to cover their own mistakes.

Still, it's not given anybody will be blamed or even any major destruction to happen. The preview is quite flimsy in this show.

[Buffalobiian]

Hoh, indeed.. I had forgotten about that. I only discovered it in episode 5 or something, but then forgot about it one week after (the preview) since half the time I just browse while the music plays.

The preview suggests to me that the humans picked up ancient torpedoes and were wowed by its destructive power.

[Inazuma]

Or maybe the treasures they are all crazy about are those torpedoes. MK48 Torps can sure give an advantage like no other, accuracy range, and power. Pretty much OP.

Also


Sure it does. I only watch the UTW-Vivid releases. The preview is on the sail of the sailing ship that Amy passes towards the end of the ED.



God that preview system is retarded.

[Buffalobiian]

Or maybe the treasures they are all crazy about are those torpedoes. MK48 Torps can sure give an advantage like no other, accuracy range, and power. Pretty much OP.

I don't think the humans know exactly what you're getting when they dive down. It's a random treasure hunt.

Given that they're by and large a peaceful group of people, I don't think they would be all that excited about collecting torpedoes. as a goal.

[David75]

[HorribleSubs] Suisei no Gargantia - 09 [720p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=439408)












-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great episode again.
That show isn't just an average slice of life after all.

So as I thought, Hideauze were engineered by manking, it's just I didn't foresee they would be genetically modified humans...
We even got the reason for the war: just a fight that started on earth and kept going on for ages.

We even know why the people on earth consider Hideauze/whalesquids sacred and do not mess with them.

And yes, it should be possible even for the Hideauze and Human alliance to stop the war.

The only problem is that Ledo is stuck on earth with no subspace/wormhole traveling device, so he can't go back to the alliance with what he found on earth.
And even if he can salvage such technologies found in that facility and eventually goes back to the alliance, being an ensign, I doubt he'll have much ways to be heard and have people change...
In my opinion the alliance would:
-Annex Earth and wipe the earth's Whalesquids
-Use all data available to wipe Hideauze

Then what? I wonder, with no war to fight, I wonder how such a society would evolve.

A naïve and egoïstical approach would be:
-Ledo does not want to go back to the alliance, because he finds Earth so peacefull.
-Ledo sends data to the alliance and finds a way to have it widespread among humans
-Ledo does not disclose earth's position and sets rules so that the alliance might someday comeback to earth after they met restrictives conditions.


For that last scene, I guess Ledo realized how much he was lied to.
Even if the alliance lost records of the past, it's impossible to miss the fact that a part of Hideauze adn is specifically human.
He also understands that the society he grew into is seriously flawed now that he got that data, even more so when he compares it to the life on gargantia.

I wonder what development we'll get and how the show will end.

[Ryllharu]

I would say the bigger question is whether or not Chamber will become an enemy.

Ledo was obviously convinced that he had been lied to this entire time, and the entire fight and the society he believes in that even killed his brother just for being weak...was based on nothing more than paranoia.

That said, the Hideauze aren't exactly unchanged either. They might start out as human shaped, but they've obviously evolved far more in line with the squid-suits. Once they are adults, even the "peaceful" earth versions are all fangs and teeth, and they are bred by a queen. They've gone feral. I doubt there is any way to reason with them.

Similarly, Chamber is programmed. There is an AI, but I wouldn't doubt for a second that the need to systematically slaughter Hideauze is hard-coded. Ledo had to twist around logic to even get Chamber to play the video. If Ledo wants to stop the fight, the next big conflict will be getting Chamber to obey his orders to stand down in the future.

[Archangel]

Yep, it's a Urobuchi show alright.

[Buffalobiian]

I suppose we're to assume that all whalesquids on earth are of the evolved-human type and not your invented symbiont type. The larvae and adolescent versions we saw here looked human, but the adults looked just like squids.

I agree with Ryll that Chamber will be difficult to handle. It's one thing to use your rank to open classifieds, but now his actions should be interpreted by Chamber as treason.

The ice-age approach was interesting, if not slightly head-scratching. The space advancement started out quite late, so either it progressed insanely quickly (as in.. impossibly quickly by today's standards), or the humans had some sort of food and water supply during the freezing years. Actually, now that I write that, they must have - or else there'd nothing for them to survive on until they ultimately formed Gargantia.

I reckon Ledo will return to Amy quite soon (episode after next?). The only reason for him to stay is to continue searching for evidence for himself, or technology for the humans. Before that however, he'll need some counselling.

[Kraco]

I didn't exactly foresee this when I wrote earlier Chamber might become a problem, as back then I assume Ledo would just go full passive. I consider it obvious the Alliance leadership knows perfectly well the origins of Hideauze. They might have erased it from the general knowledge, labeling the things hostile space aliens. After all, if the knowledge was completely wiped out, then Chamber wouldn't have had a filter forbidding its playback. So, the Alliance leadership has retained the information for themselves, in order to program the AIs to keep it in mind. This also means the Alliance will eliminate Ledo if he tries to preach this new information to the space humans.

This doesn't look too good. I can't imagine this show being anywhere as good as it is without Chamber, yet what can Ledo do about it? I wouldn't be surprised if these mecha were programmed to keep fighting even without the pilot.

Another problem I see is what Ryll referred to: At least the adult whalesquids look little more than beasts. They had no strategy whatsoever, nor showed any other signs of intelligence when they fought Ledo. So, it could be hard to negotiate with them. Possibly the old way of not disturbing them or attracting them with machine noise is the only way to coexist. They might be too stupid to understand anything else.

[shinta|hikari]

A creature with no natural predators and a quick spawn rate is destined to rule its environment. Humans are limited by space and resources, but the squids have no such limitations as of now. I don't think simply leaving the squids alone will guarantee a future for humanity in the long term.

I wonder what they taste like. I would have liked to try whale squid raw as sashimi or grilled.

[Buffalobiian]

I wonder what they taste like. I would have liked to try whale squid raw as sashimi or grilled.

You know that is at least partially cannibalism, right?

[NeoCybercoin]

What's a little cannibalism to mass genocide?

[shinta|hikari]

I bet that those squids are at least farther than chimpanzees compared to humans in terms of DNA. Still, I don't really mind cannibalism.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

[HorribleSubs] Suisei no Gargantia - 10 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=441565)

[Ryllharu]

Chamber's take is certainly an interesting one. I feel like I shouldn't agree with it though, since it is justifying genocide against a "less civilized" people solely on the basis that they are more self-reliant and don't require machines and the culture to support those machines. Still, it is a pretty convincing argument. The Hideauze have devolved into beasts and reject civilization, and destroying them is a means to maintain civilization. By continuing to fight against them, Ledo can continue to protect people like Amy's brother, who would not survive without some form of civilization.

Though I am even more disturbed that Ledo's commander also ended up on Earth, and apparently chose to dominate the civilization that found him and turn them into a creepy cult.

Lastly, Pinion is an asshole.

[animus]

Good episode like usual but what was bothering me the whole episode with Ledo's reaction to the Hideauze being human were that he had no qualms about dinistegrating MANY humans into space dust in an instant. And these humans, you know actually looked human instead of some fucking squids.

[Inazuma]

Lets pulverize pirates, but a squid related to the greatest enemy of mankind causes a breakdown because of it's humanoid shape or background ?

I get it, it's tough to have something like H larva look like children but shit, the things tried to eat Belows and that would be an unthinkable loss of boobs.

[Kraco]

Good episode like usual but what was bothering me the whole episode with Ledo's reaction to the Hideauze being human were that he had no qualms about dinistegrating MANY humans into space dust in an instant. And these humans, you know actually looked human instead of some fucking squids.

It was somewhat deeper than that. The pirates were limited, specific enemies. He was even okay with the Alliance's way of eliminating weak individuals who couldn't contribute to the cause (even though he seems to have a trauma about that one kid who disappeared). So, he wasn't shaken by crushing individual Hideauze now, but more like feeling his whole world view and purpose for existing were being destroyed or at least twisted. Somewhat related to this, I seem to recall, though it has been too long to remember, far in the past Twilight Zone or a similar show had an episode where human space marines (or something like that) were fighting space monsters. They were required to wear their combat suit including the helmet all the time (or maybe it was some drug). Due to some event some of them noticed they weren't fighting space aliens at all but other humans. The helmet or drug simply altered their vision so that the enemies looked like aliens.

But yeah, Chamber's speech was quite interesting indeed, and no doubt it has much truth in it. Although we still don't know the full history of aggression in space. It seems like on Earth ordinary humans possibly attacked first, though. I reckon the war has continued in space ever since, despite the fact the space Hideauze are nothing like they once were and space humans have long since rewritten the history.

The situation on Earth looked very different before Ledo arrived. There was no ongoing war, simply rare clashes. However, it's entirely possible the war in space won't stop before one side is elimated. This Hideauze massacre on Earth might have changed Earth's future as well, assuming the Hideauze have other nests.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

I knew the commander would show up. I just wonder if he has been on the planet the length that Ledo has. It is interesting that he seems to have taken the path of dominance as opposed to Ledo's choice to live next to the people of the planet.

Pinion turned in to a total ass this episode. He gained a little bit of power and lost it. He basically wishes to do what the commander did and build his own empire. I could care less if he died in the coming confrontation.

Chamber has some interesting logic as others have pointed out. He built a extremely well argument for why Ledo can't back down. I can see why Ledo would still hesitate though. He never had to massacre entire troves of children who were evolved humans. His society did kill children but Ledo was not the one pressing the button.

[Buffalobiian]

Good episode like usual but what was bothering me the whole episode with Ledo's reaction to the Hideauze being human were that he had no qualms about dinistegrating MANY humans into space dust in an instant. And these humans, you know actually looked human instead of some fucking squids.

Ledo's changed over time as well. The attack on pirates happened soon after he woke up, while this is likely to be several months later after he's absorbed some of the values of Gargantia. There's also the case of the pirates being aggressors who threatened people, while the whalesquids are currently harmless unless provoked. Then there's the case of killing young Hideauze, which is the equivalent of killing civilians. That's going to be a shocker for anybody who still has a heart.

It's reassuring to know that Chamber is ultimately loyal to Ledo. He certainly won't kill him, but there's definitely room for independent action in the name of "setting Ledo up for success".

As for future events, I'm going to guess that Ledo and some of the fleet will be heading back to Gargantia (perhaps with Flange), while Pinion and the rest would stay with the new commander. Then Pinion might die.

Pinion's action against the pirates themselves wasn't unwarranted though. The pirates attacked first (from what we've been told), so he kept shooting them until they surrendered. That's sound. If you kept shooting them after they've surrendered, that's another thing.

Telling people to F-off isn't smart, but not bad. The whole "If someone brings me fish, I'm going to give them water" philosophy still applies, only that you don't have to accept the fish unless you wanted it. I doubt even Gargantians engage with every trade offer. The only thing "bad" about the broadcast was that it attracted people who wouldn't have come anyway due to the whalesquids. which resulted in unnecessary casualties.

[David75]

Commander:
Did he follow Ledo when he missed the wormhole or did he somehow come later when some scientist calculated the coordinates Ledo might have been?
In the second case, scientist could make asumptions, then send probes to say 100 coordinates and get the SOS...
But for some reason, I think the alliance could care less about a machine caliber and ensign.

So now, that the commander is there, Ledo can't be the king of the hill anymore. So whatever the guy wants, Ledo has to submit. And it's probably Hideauze wipeout.

Thing is, the elements Chambers showed us indicate that earth Hideauze can become as dangerous as space Hideauze pretty quickly.
If I understand correctly, Space Hideauze are in symbiose with those algae and can extract power for weapons, life support in space and stronger shells too. That also explains why they had the sun at their back when the alliance attacked, sunlight being their primary source of energy. Earth Hideauze only need to do the same, but never had the will to. So somehow they never took the path to wage war against mankind when they could. And they clearly would anihilate earth humans with ease.

But I suspect Ledo's and that commander's actions will change that and we have earth Hideauze switching to the highly lethal version... The other impact meaning no more electricity for earth humans...

[Kraco]

Though I am even more disturbed that Ledo's commander also ended up on Earth, and apparently chose to dominate the civilization that found him and turn them into a creepy cult.

If there indeed is a weird cult, like the glimpses suggested, I wonder how it will turn out now that they meet the people from Gargantia. Gargantians are used to a spaceman who is useless and somewhat clumsy at most stuff aside from fighting but largely harmless to those he considers allies. If the commander had given a vastly different image of himself, thus forming the cult, then he might find it hard to take command of these people. Especially someone like Pinion wouldn't bow down easily, and the others at least wouldn't think that much of a spaceman, even if they might submit to superior force.

Not that I'd expect Ledo to condone such an approach.

[David75]

Regarding Chamber's speech, my opinion is that it's not fair. More that his argument is also valid for the Hideauze.

Without the algae, Hideauze can't survive in space. Those algae are the equivalent of machine calibers for humans and are also the cristallisation of their intellect and "civilization" so to speak.

Chamber's speech was also a tad sad in that I felt it also implied that the pinacle of a civilisation is in the refinement of the weapons it creates. Hideauze seem to be very good at that too, or they would not have survived the alliance...

[Kraco]

It's just two vastly different forms of life. Hideauze don't need civilization any more than a tiger needs civilization or anything external to be the most perfect killing machine on land. However, without civilization humans are nothing but weak prey, incapable of achieving anything much. I didn't take Chamber's word to mean machine caliber as a weapon is the pinnacle of civilization, but it's possibly the most advanced piece of any machinery humans have created, and that's a sum of the capability of the civilization. Considering they are locked in an eternal war, it makes sense their best efforts are invested in weapons. The speech was biased, but why wouldn't it be? Chamber has a purpose, and it's still unclear if it can alter that purpose like a human can.

[Yukimura]

In light of all that's been revealed so far I've been thinking back to the opening of the show, we saw the Humans warping into the region around a planet that seemed to be totally controlled and well defended by the Hideauze.

I can't help but wonder given that we know the Galactic Alliance is not exactly the most transparent and democratic organization and that I don't recall ever seeing the Hideauze go out of their way to be aggressive towards humans that weren't getting close to territory they wanted to defend and that the Hideauze (space and sea) seem like they have evolved to have very little overlap area in which to come into conflict over resources with humans that the grand war between the Galactic Alliance and the Hideauze is actually a one-sided campaign of genocide being waged by the descendants of the survival through technology faction against the descendants of the survival through evolution faction that left Earth to escape the ice age.

To add another stick onto the fire even if my speculation is totally off base I still fully expect a reveal that the name 'Hideauze' will turn out to be a bastardization of 'Hideous' and its root will be as a propaganda/slang term used by the Continental Union types to refer to what the Evolvers became to polarize public opinion against them even in order to maintain their people's cohesion and discipline during the tough early years of wandering through space after leaving Earth.

As for Chamber's speech I think it makes some existential sense if the humans and Hideauze have to share space and compete for limited resources. However, I am not convinced that the humans actually need to wipe the Hideauze out in order to thrive and prosper in the galaxy at large. It will depend on how aggressively the Hideauze go about expanding their territory and how much effort it would take the humans to set themselves up on the opposite side of the galaxy and just leave the Hideauze alone.

I think the situation that existed on Earth prior to Ledo's coming is supposed to show that it's actually quite possible for humans and Hideauze to coexist peacefully and just stay out of each others way if only the Galactic Alliance leadership would stop carrying the ax for the Hideauze that their ancestors had.

[Kraco]

I think the situation that existed on Earth prior to Ledo's coming is supposed to show that it's actually quite possible for humans and Hideauze to coexist peacefully and just stay out of each others way if only the Galactic Alliance leadership would stop carrying the ax for the Hideauze that their ancestors had.

We don't know enough. The beginning of the show had a sort of propaganda feeling to it, but nevertheless we did see multiple destroyed colony ships. I can't imagine Alliance would take those anywhere near the front lines. Whether they were devastated in retaliation by Hideauze or if Hideauze actively sought them out to wipe them out, who knows. What we do know, however, is that Hideauze (or Evolvers) can evolve very rapidly and they also seem to excel in space warfare. This means, in my opinion, that even if it wasn't a war loving species in the beginning, it could be now, after centuries of evolving to get better and better at fighting. On Earth Hideauze haven't had any need, for a long time, to be able to destroy any serious threats.

[Inazuma]

Can we all agree that the best character of the show is Chambers ?
The whole debate on the Hideauze righteousness will go nowhere until the season ends.

[David75]

[HorribleSubs] Suisei no Gargantia - 11 [720p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=443636)

I was just wondering if Kugel really is in there, alive. It would be entirely possible for that machine caliber to create a virtual clone and use it for communication... and then establish alliance rules on that fleet and Earth.
It's not that Kugel would not be able to do so himself, I just found the setting a tad fishy.

[Buffalobiian]

[HorribleSubs] Suisei no Gargantia - 11 [720p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=443636)

I was just wondering if Kugel really is in there, alive. It would be entirely possible for that machine caliber to create a virtual clone and use it for communication... and then establish alliance rules on that fleet and Earth.
It's not that Kugel would not be able to do so himself, I just found the setting a tad fishy.

It does sound fishy, though I'm not sure if that's because Kugel is dead..

I just hope it doesn't take long for Ledo's inevitable "wakeup" moment where he stops following orders or destinies and does what he thinks is right. He seemed so glad to puppy back to Kugel, it was a little disgusting to watch. Considering they were pretty good buds though, maybe it had more to do with a reunion and less to do with rejoining the Alliance command chain.

Pinion's join was easier to swallow. Even though he acted casually, he was putting the fleet's safety first and foremost.

How does a person take a leak in a sterile chamber? :S

[David75]

Ledo rushed to Kugel, because it was a soothing and easy choice. He was just escaping most of his internal strugles and it felt easy to go back to being an underdog.
He even stated he's not able to be a leader, and it's true he doesn't seem like he possesses the traits at his young age.
But it seems obvious he won't blindly acknowledge orders, even more so when he's ordered to kill people from Gargantia...
He also felt the "happiness" definition from the alliance he a lot different from the one he felt in Gargantia, another way that felt efficient and good against all odds and appearances.

Regarding body fluids and grooming, well I guess the suits and the seats do what's necessary... After all, that matter vaporising laser probably also works there and even converts those excretions into energy/simple matter or whatever needed for life support.

[Kraco]

Episode 11 - UTW-Vivid (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=443711)



Ledo rushed to Kugel, because it was a soothing and easy choice. He was just escaping most of his internal strugles and it felt easy to go back to being an underdog.

That's definitely it. Kugel might not have been a bad man in the beginning, yet it must have been quite a hit to first find a paradise like Earth after the emptiness of space, then find he can't leave the cockpit. So, he can't appreciate the kind of healthier life Earthlings live and might have even grown to resent it in his isolation. Ledo is the opposite, naturally, so I don't think their chemistry will work for long. Especially if Ledo was tasked to bring the dreariness and rule by fear upon Gargantia. The threat of Hideauze is the single thing they share, but even that Ledo is doubting more and more.

I'm not even sure it has to proceed all the way to Kugel's cult decreeing Bevel useless before Ledo will reject Kugel.

[Ryllharu]

I got the impression that Kugel was lying, but that's just me.

I was more interested in the fact that Rackage seems to have matured years since her defeat by Ledo. She plans on using Pinion's immediate dislike of the cult combined with his new position of trust to free her and her crew. She might still be a pirate, but she seems to have understood that the end result of her lifestyle is this kind of cult, where even people she might like end up as slaves and others constantly have to watch what they say about those at the top of the pyramid. Now that she's not the one at the top of their little pyramid, she developed a new perspective.

There was a distinct mellowing about her, even when she returned to her own ship.

I would like to see her join Gargantia so we can see her fight with Bellows over Pinion. :p

[Kraco]

I got the impression that Kugel was lying, but that's just me.

Lying about what? His medical condition? I don't really see the point. Nobody sane would spend his days in the cockpit if they had a choice. And why would he specifically avoid Ledo of all people? He made quite an effort to appear friendly, not dictatorial. He asked, didn't order. He was absolutely interested in winning Ledo over voluntarily, not trying to boss him around and treat like a mere grunt under his authority. It'd be a bit strange he wouldn't have wanted to meet Ledo in person - unless he's got a Hideauze parasite attached to his skull or something, and the medical records were thus forged.

About everything else... Yeah. He's clearly not interested in the wellbeing of people at all, but then again, he was only saying this is efficient. He wants to replicate the Alliance's ruthless society, but I don't think some random officer really has what it takes to do that. Thus he instead ended up with an inefficient society full of cultists probably doing nothing beneficial at all.

[Buffalobiian]

The entire "efficiency" really does reflect on our society. Local, indigenous tribes were just eating/working/playing without "improving" themselves before civilisation came along, deemed them inefficient/pointless and gave them a new structure to follow. The result is such that the the overall/average well-being of society rose - but the distribution of wealth is such that the top minority take most of it.

Should you always strive for self-improvement? Must there always be a purpose to society/life? If so, I personally think the purpose of life is to enjoy it.

[KrayZ33]

but the distribution of wealth is such that the top minority take most of it.

how is that different to what it was 1 million years ago though? or whenever it was when humankind first decided to hunt in groups.
all I have to do is to take a look at a pack of lions and see that its pretty much the same.

if kugel is not lying, the most usefull will get the best/most (whatever) food, thats at least fair if you ask me.
at least its not the "lazy lion patriarch"

and on a side note, without civilisation it would be impossible for most people to "enjoy life", the improvements allow us to both support the ill and weak and to have "free time".

[Kraco]

if kugel is not lying, the most usefull will get the best/most (whatever) food, thats at least fair if you ask me.
at least its not the "lazy lion patriarch"

I have no doubt the robed cultists are among the ones deemed most useful - by themselves, of course. And what exactly do they do to benefit the society? Kugel is sitting in his mecha's cockpit 24/7, so what does he know? He's just some mid-tier officer anyway, so even a bit craftier people with experience of human societies would be able to fool him to quite a high degree. One glance at that foolery could tell especially on the long run it would be far below Gargantia (or Alliance) in efficiency. It's nothing but a mockery of ideas beyond their reach and comprehension.

The most significant problem is that inept people mainly interested in securing their own positions would be judging whether somebody else's efforts are beneficial or not. There's nothing quite like that to kill innovation and creativity.

[KrayZ33]

I have no doubt the robed cultists are among the ones deemed most useful - by themselves, of course. And what exactly do they do to benefit the society

I have no doubt that its not just "standing around with an awkward look on ther faces"

[Inazuma]

Aparté : Watch petit Gargantia Ep6. It will trigger a facial expression if you're not dead.

[Buffalobiian]

UTW-Vivid - Petit Gargantia 04-06 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=444872)

[Inazuma]

1524


480p http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=445670
720p http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=445685

[David75]

[UTW-Vivid]_Suisei_no_Gargantia_-_12_[h264-720p][904D0D0F].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=445688)





Seems like I was right about Kugel.
That idea is not new and the reason given felt very convenient.

Striker being better than Chambers was logical. I was expecting Ledo to try and bring Striker under water, because he already has some experience of underwater battles, so he could overcome some of his inferiority there.
But Pinion helping him nice too.

And an underwater fight might still happen in the next episode.

Now we have Ledo+Chambers against Striker+deadweight-Kugel.

Striker is technically better than Chambers. But since those bots are always teamed with humans, it probably means the pilot increases the overall efficiency, because life support and cockpit takes a lot of resources... So you wouldn't choose that solution without clear advantage.

Will it balance out in the end?

Also, Gargantia has some kind of ultimate weapon?

Next week episode might be epic, some kind of "Grand Final"

I hope OVAs will be good, because I can't see a second season with what we've had till now. Unless they plan on having the Alliance or Space Hideauze come to earth...

[Ryllharu]

I suspect that while Gargantia is mostly a peaceful fleet, the golden key unlocks its warship capabilities. The larger fleets seem be centered around the large vessels that don't seem to make a lot of sense in terms of shape and size. Most of the other vessels in the fleet are regular ships, salvage vessels, or barges. All of them strapped together, connected to a few huge central vessels. But the main "core" vessels are enormous with what looks like a lot of material added on after the fact.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gargantia's core ship was one of the last seafaring vessels of the great war, or even a spacecraft that was never launched.

I wonder what the difference is that makes Chamber always defer to the judgment of the pilot, while Striker clearly decided on her(?) own action to rebuild the Alliance after Kugel died (presumably in hypersleep).

But Rackage's change of heart from her earlier appearance is definitely something I like. I'd still like to see her join Gargantia, but that would be kind of out of character for her. It would probably be tough for some of Gargantia's citizens to forgive her for any deaths she might have caused.

[Kraco]

I remember that very high tube sticking up from Gargantia. It seemed to be of higher tech material than the generally rusty exterior of the ship, which was probably added later, like you said, Ryll. I'd almost bet a part of shinta's loli collection on that tube having something to do with what they are planning. Although on the other hand Amy asked to assist is intriguing. Is it some fighter aircraft they have that needs a good pilot? What else could Amy contribute? Unless the crafty doctor simply thought that having Amy involved would boost Ledo's morale...

I'm not altogether pleased Kugel was a cadaver, but if nothing else, at least that might allow his redemption in Ledo's eyes.

[David75]

Striker is a more advanced combat suit. I would not go to prototype level, but why not... after all it was a last chance all out attack by the alliance when Ledo and Kugel didn't secure their grip during the subspace leap and ended on earth. So I guess even a prototype could be used in such a circumstance. And Striker could be one of those suits with a very advanced AI that can make choices...

I do not think however Striker chose to let Kugel die in his sleep or from the disease, that twist also has been overused, but that would fit that botGod which doesn't value human life that much.
The choice might have been:
Humans never have been able to win the war. I'm the first generation of bot able to make choices and I'm better than humans at everything. Why should I support one, when I can do better alone. Solution/choice: get rid of humans to have the job done... (Kill all Hideauze)

But of course, maybe life support was limited in time, after all Ledo had been waiting for 6 months when he woke up and we do not know how long he lived on Gargantia, but something like a year would be plausible.

Maybe a time limit would be 1 year and Kugel wasn't able to survive after that, unable to find food/water?
Then Striker finds that fleet with a cultists tyranny, so it just has to come at the top...

[NeoCybercoin]

I for one did not see that one coming. The whole dead Kugel and all. But Striker acting on her own? Does this mean that Striker is a AI programmed for the cause of the Galactic?

[Ryllharu]

But of course, maybe life support was limited in time, after all Ledo had been waiting for 6 months when he woke up and we do not know how long he lived on Gargantia, but something like a year would be plausible.

Maybe a time limit would be 1 year and Kugel wasn't able to survive after that, unable to find food/water?
Then Striker finds that fleet with a cultists tyranny, so it just has to come at the top...
I might have thought that Kugel flew into the maelstrom long before Ledo got thrown off into it, but I guess the Warp works in mysterious ways. Ledo got thrown and landed on Earth maybe a year ago. Kugel/Striker must have flown into it after, but ended up on Earth long before, and on the opposite site of the planet. One doesn't end up that dessicated after only a year of difference, nor does one set up a cult with that level of formality in so short a time.

[Kraco]

I for one did not see that one coming. The whole dead Kugel and all. But Striker acting on her own? Does this mean that Striker is a AI programmed for the cause of the Galactic?

I'd rather agree with David's assessment that Striker has a more developed AI that is capable of independent action. However, the creativity is still limited, so it probably tried to recreate Alliance on Earth. However, with Terminator's skills of psychology, a machine can't really understand humans well enough to pull that off. The dystopia it was busy building wouldn't amount to much in the long run.

[David75]

Aye,
Forgot that he might have time traveled. Good one.
Here I was just thinking that this cult was established long before Kugel/Striker arrived and they only needed to put themselves at the top. But them arriving back in time works better with Kugel's body state, the old Striker representation we've seen somewhere on the ship before, Striker being scratched here and there, the number of weapons it has and most of all its second power source...

I thought I've seen those cultists before, like in the rushes Ledo has seen. Could it be Kugel/striker arrived centuries ago?
I do not think we have a time paradox here, where Striker/Kugel would be responsible for the Hideauze becoming threats to humanity and going into space... Except that in the loop we're experiencing, Ledo instead of Kugel came to Earth.

[Ryllharu]

To me, it's more like warp travel requires precise entry angles onboard of appropriate craft, entering through a controlled gate aperture. Anything less that that results in disaster, a completely random exit.

It's less of a miracle that Kugel/Striker ended up back in time, more that the both of them ended up on the same planet at all.

[Inazuma]

Well
I have a theory.

SNG is centered on those enemies who gave up on their humanity to evolve and fuck shit up. What if the Galactic Alliance answered in kind building fully self conscious robot as a heritage. Now this would mean there is a war involving two inhumane parties and that humans are basically a ressource.

What about that ?
Also, isn't the guy behind Psycho Pass also behind SNG ?

Time to Senmetsu now ...

[lelouch]

[UTW-Vivid]_Suisei_no_Gargantia_-_12_[h264-720p][904D0D0F].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=445688)
Striker being better than Chambers was logical.

Now we have Ledo+Chambers against Striker+deadweight-Kugel.

Striker is technically better than Chambers.


Why do you call him "Chambers"? It's Chamber.

[Buffalobiian]

But Pinion helping him nice too.

I liked how that happened nearly right after Striker talked about people supporting each other.

Regarding theories about Striker.. how about Kugel really did die of some random disease? I don't think Striker let him die. It might not even be that advanced of an AI compared to Chamber. All that had to happen was for its pilot to die and to have its command chain cut off from the Alliance. With no pilot to guide its decision making, it simply served to preserve the principles of the Alliance and serve mankind in the only way it knew how - to improve the average well-being and efficiency. As for lying about it all by projecting a hologram of Kugel to Ledo, I suppose it did that after its AI evolved and deemed such an action to be convenient for its own causes.

And as for Amy + Stairway to Heaven, it certainly sounds like something that can fly. The opening segments suggest such anyway. It'll put them out of range of the cannons and Yunboros if they're high enough.

[David75]

After some time, I'd place some money on that cultist head priest. She seems to have a cunning smile.
She might not be the one to infect/poison Kugel, but as the highest ranked human around, maybe striker transfered control to her when Kugel died.
That would be a more down to Earth idea.

As for the way Kugel died, either killed or not, the only result is that it served her purpose of getting her hand on Striker and reinforce the cult's tyranny (and her position)

[Kraco]

After some time, I'd place some money on that cultist head priest. She seems to have a cunning smile.

That's actually supported by how, relatively, much screen time she had and also the close shots showing that cunning smile. Not to mention much of the authority indeed seemed to rest on her. If she belonged to some human faction that had an access to old knowledge, unlike Gargantia, it would be far more plausible. Thus, she would know all about what happened between Evolvers and the rest and how a chunk of humans escaped to the depths of space.

[Kraco]

UTW-Vivid consortium released v2 with better video.


Well, the TV station royally trolled us this episode by temporarily rescheduling the show into a standard definition timeslot, meaning that this episode was aired in SD only.

We’ve used the TV broadcast for our usual 480p release, and for now we’ve put out a temporary 720p release using the only HD source available – CR’s video. We’ll be replacing this release with a proper HDTV encode when it airs on another channel in a couple of days, so if you want the best possible quality I’d recommend waiting for that. In any case, here it is, and I’m certainly looking forward to seeing how they wrap this one up next week.

Edit: As promised, episode 12′s 720p release has been replaced with an updated version encoded from HDTV.

Episode 12v2 - UTW-Vivid (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=446312)

[Buffalobiian]

UTW-Vivid - Episode 13 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=448103)

[ASL]_Iwashiro_Tarou_-_Suisei_no_Gargantia_Original_Soundtrack_[FLAC]_[w_Scans].rar (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=447931)
[ASL]_Iwashiro_Tarou_-_Suisei_no_Gargantia_Original_Soundtrack_[MP3]_[w_Scans].rar (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=447932)


-------------------------------------------------














R.I.P. Chamber

/solute




At first I agreed with Striker's assessment that Chamber's malfunctioned by the end, but now I'm not sure of what classes as "malfunctioning" and what classes as intelligence/interpretation. It's probably the best way for Chamber to go though, because if Ledo dies later on without killing Chamber with him, Chamber also runs the risk of misinterpretation in the future. It's an inherent defect of his kind, unless he's been "raised" so well by Ledo that Ledo's values are maintained and no future human contact can "logic" their way into him.

"Stairway to Heaven".. damn that's a good name. I can't think of anything better for such a launcher.

[Kraco]

Yeah, I reckon Chamber as an AI had as much developmental potential as Striker, which means also as big risks. His decision was no doubt an outcome of the time they spent on Earth, even though in the past it always seemed like Chamber was a big conservative. However, in light of this decision, it's clear Chamber was learning just as much as Ledo was. Chamber also agreed with Ledo's earlier assessment that Alliance's thinking and values have no place on Earth. So, he reevaluated Ledo's position and came to the conclusion that Ledo now has the mindset to be something else than an Alliance soldier. Too bad he couldn't find a way to do the same for himself. For me this was a sad end with Chamber gone... Even though you probably are correct and Chamber himself didn't want to risk becoming another Striker.

A pretty good and solid show, but it didn't turn out awesomely memorable or otherwise exceptional. Especially this last arc felt sort of stock writing compared to the beginning when everything was fresh and also the conclusion of the whalesquid arc.

[Inazuma]

Chamber confirmed for best character of this 2013 season.

[animus]

Ending reminded me of the Iron Giant.

[Kraco]

Episode 14 OVA - Nubles-C.U.T.E (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=471625)

I was somewhat divided between wanting to see Ledo & Amy as a couple after the series or something within the series with Chamber still alive. That naturally also meant whatever it ended up being, I wouldn't be unhappy.




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As expected, it was the Ledo & Chamber combo of ultimate ignorance and far-fetched assumptions that granted this ova the comedy. "Did the ghosts escape too?" was the perfect closing remark to this incident.

I guess this ova was like the show itself in a miniature form: An entertaining watch but not anything memorable.

[NeoCybercoin]

[UTW-Vivid] Gargantia Ova 2 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=502706)

Was pretty interesting to see Kugel's side of the story.

[Munsu]

Just watched the 13 episodes of the series, and quite enjoyed it. I thought the very beginning was very unappealing and boring, but once the setting changed it became interesting. In particular episode 2 was great. The rest was OK, a bit disjointed, but it had some interesting portions. It would've been nice if the series was about 24 episodes long, as it is there wasn't much time to really identify with any one character, not much screen time to be had except for Ledo and Chamber.

In all it it was very much worth watching.

Will see about watching the two OVAs tonight.

[Buffalobiian]

I found the opposite, that the build-up was better than the outcome. Expectations came to play perhaps.

[Munsu]

I found the opposite, that the build-up was better than the outcome. Expectations came to play perhaps.

Very beginning = first 5 minutes or so of the series.

[shinta|hikari]

I wanted this to stay more slice of life instead of delving too much into serious stuff. Seeing Ledo adapt to life on Earth was the most interesting part for me. All the drama about splitting the fleet and that blonde dude was just trite.

I did like the squid human revelation though.

[Munsu]

I wanted this to stay more slice of life instead of delving too much into serious stuff. Seeing Ledo adapt to life on Earth was the most interesting part for me. All the drama about splitting the fleet and that blonde dude was just trite.

I did like the squid human revelation though.

Personally didn't care much for the slice of life aspects, though I enjoyed the aspect of Ledo adapting to Earth as you did. I just didn't care much for it as slice of life of it, but I indeed wanted to see more about life on Earth and get involved a bit into a more political drama meeting other fleets, etc. seeing more of the world. As it was, the setting felt very small instead of expansive.

In any case, watched the two OVAS, episodes 14 and 15.

Didn't care much for episode 14, but I really enjoyed episode 15 with Kugel's story on Earth. It was interesting to see how in the very beginning he's actually that much more ethical and moral than Ledo, even how he embraced since early on how his Alliance's methods don't apply on Earth, and how certainly events altered in his thinking in a complete 180.

[Kraco]

Meguru Kouro, Haruka OVA - 01 - Vivid (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=619905)




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A rather excellent ova, as far as Gargantia goes. This felt better than some of the latter eps of the show. The plot was quite solid so far, and I was never bored despite the length of 50 mins. Of course Chamber only in flashbacks was very sad, but it couldn't be helped. At least those flashbacks were good. Amy and Ledo seem quite official now.

The one thing I didn't like appeared right at the end, with the revelation the girl is actually a Machine Caliber pilot and has the unit in perfect condition. It feels so wrong that somebody else has a mecha and Ledo is without Chamber. It's naturally a part of the story, but it still feels so wrong. How much more is he going to miss Chamber when he sees somebody else fly a Machine Caliber? Although hers looked different, like an old model?

[Buffalobiian]

There weren't always two squirrels, were there?

[Kraco]

There weren't always two squirrels, were there?

They got the other one from Kugel's fleet. Actually I'm surprised there aren't already 10 squirrels, if you know what I mean.

[Buffalobiian]

There will be soon. You saw how they ran off together.

[David75]

That Machine Caliber seems to be an old model with buggy software. My guess is Striker found it while their fleet was salvaging some ruins.

And for some reason, I think the memento communicator Ledo keeps on himself at all times will play a key role sometime down the line.
Like it still keeps most, if not all, of chambers routines/AI and will be able to hack into that older mech thanks to the buggy software it has.

[Kraco]

Hmm... You might be right, indeed, about the girl. I was thinking the new girl was also an accidental exile from space like Ledo and Kugel, only flying an old model, but thinking about it, she's too young and too ignorant, even if some of it was acted. So, yeah, the girl likely isn't a real pilot like Ledo. Somehow she is qualified to communicate with the machine caliber, though. The mecha is still from space, however, since it's speaking the space human language Ledo only knew originally. This mecha apparently is too stupid to speak the Earthling language, even if it can understand it. I guess it got to Earth the same way Ledo, Chamber, Kugel, and Striker did, only much earlier at some point. The pilot might have died in the process or simply died of old age later.

I don't think it's buggy, though, like you said. Nor do I think Striker (or Kugel) necessarily found it. In fact it could be they never knew of its existence. Even now the girl is keeping it hidden. She might have kept it powered down the whole time Kugel/Striker was in power. Now she was gauging Ledo to see if he's similar to Kugel or a decent human. In any case she obviously needs him to live, considering she was the first one to dive to save him. No idea what her fancy plan might be. It's possible the old mecha might be possible to upgrade somewhat with the cockpit from Chamber+the communicator.

Maybe she can't fly the mecha even if she wanted. That would please me. Considering its poor communication skills, it might have less fancy automation as well.

[David75]

The cockpit idea is nice, it's totally possible the pilot ejected with the cockpit in his own space/time, only the mech part leaping to the show's earth space/time and Chamber's cockpit is plug and play with that mech.

Leema probably isn't the one who got that machine caliber, probably her familly/sect and they hid it from everyone. For some reason they all disapeared/died (maybe in the last clash) and Leema got it defacto. Or for some reason, has she seems to be very skilled with her Yonboro, she was able to get that mech on board without anyone noticing.

[Ryllharu]

The one thing that totally bothered me was the storm flashback. Having the fleet coupled like that would be the most surefire way to having the entire thing sink. It's not the winds that break ships in half, it is cresting one wave and then dropping into a trough before the next hits you. A ship wants to go up a wave, down the trough, and up the next wave.

Coupled ships wouldn't be able to cut through the waves evenly, and would end up getting tugged all around and snapped in two.

I wonder how involved Leema was with the cultists. I got the impression that she was pretty deep in it. Perhaps she is trying to revive a "god", and wants to know how the previous one Ledo was associated acted. She was well associated with how Striker acted. Perhaps she wants to reboot a benevolent god like Chamber and not a controlling wrathful one like Striker.


I was also bummed by Amy's reunion after Ledo's rescue. I honestly expected her to kiss him. Multiple times. It's not like the fleet people are particularly prim and proper, they're half naked all the time and in the series most of the younger girls are quite forward. Damn the modest Japanese!

[Buffalobiian]

I was also bummed by Amy's reunion after Ledo's rescue. I honestly expected her to kiss him. Multiple times. It's not like the fleet people are particularly prim and proper, they're half naked all the time and in the series most of the younger girls are quite forward. Damn the modest Japanese!

No way! The scene looked like it could have been a kiss, but they decided on a hug as is fitting for a cute couple like Amy and Ledo. Amy gets embarrassed it's known she asked for advice. They're barely in the cuddling, lap-sitting stage. A kiss would have been bold, cliche and frankly out of character.

[Ryllharu]

They're already well past the cute and cuddly phase. Amy's already done a private Dance of the Seven Veils for Ledo.

What we saw was out of character. Amy strikes me as the type who would kiss Ledo after a close call like that. Ledo is the shy and awkward one in their relationship, not Amy.

[Kraco]

What we saw was out of character. Amy strikes me as the type who would kiss Ledo after a close call like that. Ledo is the shy and awkward one in their relationship, not Amy.

Shy and awkward? I think he's just genetically manipulated to be dense and uninterested. That would make these young soldiers so much easier for the Galactic Alliance to keep under control and fighting (to the death) like they should. Of course there's still something left there, if Amy pushes hard enough and secretes enough pheromones.

But maybe the end result is no different.

[Buffalobiian]

They're already well past the cute and cuddly phase. Amy's already done a private Dance of the Seven Veils for Ledo.

If that dance is supposed to validate that they're into kissing territory already, I don't see it.

I do agree that Ledo is the more reserved of the two however.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggLt_hWOYH8

[Ryllharu]

I honestly thought they'd be in casual sex territory by the timeframe this OVA is placed, the way the other two girls talk about them.

I guess you interpreted the pose and "the look" Amy gave Ledo at the end of the dance scene very differently than I did.

[Buffalobiian]

I interpreted it as being part of the dance and not a "Let's shag tonight" sign.

[Munsu]

2nd episode of Suisei no Gargantia: Meguru Kouro, Haruka OVA.

http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=715074

Didn't realize that 2 OVAs (aside from those late two episode of the primary series) were coming out, one late last year already discussed and another from a few months back now subbed (I assume this is a subbed version).

Anyways, hopefully should watch both this weekend.

[Buffalobiian]

Thanks for the link. That was a really good OVA. Exploring the dynamics of earth life is heaps better than the space stuff that this anime ended with.

Rakkage is pretty win, why the hell did she have to leave Pinion? Just because he's a tsundere and starts hitting on other girls?

edit: It seems I never even watched the last two episodes from the series (ep 14, 15).

[Munsu]

Thanks for the link. That was a really good OVA. Exploring the dynamics of earth life is heaps better than the space stuff that this anime ended with.

Rakkage is pretty win, why the hell did she have to leave Pinion? Just because he's a tsundere and starts hitting on other girls?

edit: It seems I never even watched the last two episodes from the series (ep 14, 15).

Go give them a watch then. Don't recall much, but I thought they were well worth it, at least episode 15.

[Kraco]

That was a really good OVA. Exploring the dynamics of earth life is heaps better than the space stuff that this anime ended with.

I don't know. It was like a miniature version of the main story, Ledo's case. The girl was from the Land, not from space, but in the end she was permanently separated from her home, lost her best friend (the mecha), and had to find a new place for herself.

It's kind of ironic that Ledo could have completely reduced the enemy fleet harmless if he had been sitting in the pilot's chair, instead of the inept Reema. Although for the larger picture this was unfortunately the better outcome as the Land would have come again against Gargantia if they had claimed the mecha. But since those are lying around, Ledo should put in some effort to find another one. Chamber could probably take over the AI and be restored! In a weaker body, but still.

I seem to recall the second season was cancelled, so we will never know.

[Buffalobiian]

I struggle to figure out whether the AI is housed in his handheld device, within the cockpit, or in the actual robot. You'd think something that complex would have to be in the machine itself but who knows.

[Kraco]

I struggle to figure out whether the AI is housed in his handheld device, within the cockpit, or in the actual robot. You'd think something that complex would have to be in the machine itself but who knows.

Complex? We are already past the day when a computer needs to be the size of a room to be taken seriously. With the other kind of energy, wormhole, and you name it technology those people have, I'm sure the whatever quantum computer running Chamber didn't need to be exactly huge. Thus I don't see any reason why it couldn't be both in the body and the cockpit, or at least a backup in both. Under normal circumstances the AI could then be recovered more easily and replanted into a new mecha so that the surviving pilot would have the familiar support. It could even be the handheld device, but for some unspecified reason I believe it's just a terminal.

[Buffalobiian]

Well if it's self-contained in the cockpit or the handheld device, why hasn't Chamber booted up already? Simply lacking power shouldn't be enough to stop Ledo. It must be something more.

[Kraco]

Well if it's self-contained in the cockpit or the handheld device, why hasn't Chamber booted up already? Simply lacking power shouldn't be enough to stop Ledo. It must be something more.

Yeah, it seems like a compelling argument. Ledo isn't so smart at anything but fighting, but I guess even he could handle connecting power cables. Maybe Chamber chose to do it this way. Chamber was one with the mecha just like a human mind belongs to a body. Maybe he didn't want to continue existing without. Or maybe he thought Ledo would far more easily move on and become a regular part of the Gargantia population without a weird AI friend.

[Buffalobiian]

I can accept the AI's memory/software being on board the cockpit while the computing functions remained with the other half of the head and the rest of the body. If that was the case though, I'd expect Chamber to be severely crippled should be be rebooted. The counter-argument is that AI advancement was all software-based.