Psycho-Pass

[Xelbair]

http://i1063.photobucket.com/albums/t502/Supremopaper/Temporada%20de%20Anime%20Otono%202012/Psycho-Pass.jpg

From Anidb:
In the future, it is possible to quantitatively measure a person's emotions, desires, and every inclination. In this way, it is also possible to measure a person's criminal tendency factor, which is used to judge criminals.

This is the story of a team of policemen dedicated to maintaining public order. Some of them work in the Enforcement Division, responsible for the apprehension of criminals, while others belong to the Supervisory Division which oversees their colleagues in Enforcement.
Studio: Production I.G.
Writter: Gen Urobuchi(Fate/Zero, Phantom of the Inferno, Madoka)

Ep 01:
[HorribleSubs] PSYCHO-PASS - 01 [720p] (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=361180)
[HorribleSubs] PSYCHO-PASS - 01 [360p] (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=361182)

My Impressions:
Probably the best show of the season. Action, art quality, universe - everything seems to be really good.. also - Dominator is deadly.

[MFauli]

Watched ep 1. Extremely disappointed.

I HATED the new police girl. Makes no sense for such a shy, un-confident, clumsy girl to join some special forces unit. Also these police robots that built a border around the block - why did they have those kawai anime-faces?!
This was one of the shows I was looking forward to, but these completely out-of-place elements are very off putting. Production value is high, art style is good, animation great. Why lessen its quality through anime clichees and tropes? Annoying.

But I will keep watching ... for now. Maybe it gets better or I can grow used to it.

[Kraco]

There's an interesting (and not too long) article (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-10-11/psycho-pass-chief-director/word-moe-is-banned-among-staff) about the beginnings of this show on ANN. Worth a read if you have a couple of minutes of time.

One of the best shows this season, no doubt, and no wonder with this script writer. At first I was taken aback by the sudden appearance of the cute, green officer girl after the foreboding atmosphere and the manly beginning, but I soon found her interesting and funny instead of detrimental to the story. In fact having her there with her naive fresh out of the academy notions contrasts nicely with the inhumane nature of the society.

It's one more Hanazawa Kana voiced role, but I'm happy with the voice actors. The production values seemed also jolly good in general.

[Archangel]

Minority Report: The anime

It was alright, i'll definitely be looking forward to the next episode.

[David75]

I think I'll pass. Not my thing.

Gory scens are probably needed, just that in a cyberpunk environnement where you can evaluate people psychological states from a distance, where you try to keep apparences, it's a little strange to have a weapon that has you implode at the cellular level covering everything/everyone with bloody remain in a 5 meters radius.

[Buffalobiian]

Minority Report: The anime



That's what I thought, and I haven't even seen Minority Report.

I don't think this is the best show of the season (still held strongly by Shin Sekai Yori and Kaibutsu-kun atm), but I liked this episode. The guns take way too long to assess things though (unless you can use your eyes as a proxy), they won't be much good if someone ambushed you in limited visibility.

And I thought the voice of the gun was only intended for the wielder? The show made it sound like every announcement was made for all officers to hear.

[Ryllharu]

I really hate the character design.

It's no surprise since it turns out it was the Hitman Reborn mangaka who designed them. The guys look fine, which unfortunately makes the girls look that much worse. Each of them look like they've been hit in the face repeatedly with a shovel until they look like a boxer who barely won by decision after 10 rounds. Super droopy eyes that are ridiculously oversized for their face (again, made worse by the fact that the men in the show look normal), making it look like bad 90s anime.

At least the story was done by someone els, Urobuchi Gen. Of course, Blassreiter being his other cyberpunk series, the plot could go either way.

I'll give it another episode or two, but this is already on my "probably drop" list.

edit: On the positive side, it does remind me of Witch Hunter Robin, with all the characters shuffled around. That took a little while to get started, so this will certainly get the requisite three episodes. Maybe I'll be able to look past the character design.

[Belial]

There's an interesting (and not too long) article (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-10-11/psycho-pass-chief-director/word-moe-is-banned-among-staff) about the beginnings of this show on ANN. Worth a read if you have a couple of minutes of time.


We need more people like this, here is to hoping the show succeeds in a big way so we can anime in the right direction again

Can't judge it based on only one episode yet tho the world seems interesting

[Inazuma]

It felt Production IG good - with all that futuristic noire goodness to it.

I will watch this, Kraco's assessment about the production value feels right and the intro scene made me thinking of Comboy Bebop's movie last fight scene.

[tnynyn]

It felt Production IG good - with all that futuristic noire goodness to it.

I will watch this, Kraco's assessment about the production value feels right and the intro scene made me thinking of Comboy Bebop's movie last fight scene.

I think this is gonna be one of my top favs. Love the cyberpunk theme so it had a bit of gits feeling to it's especially with production ig

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 02 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=363917)

[Archangel]

So far so good, seems to be starting slow but i haven't lost interest yet.

I like the show's outlook on the future, they're doing a good job of selling the world they created to the viewers.

[Kraco]

I already said it in irc, but I think the cookie-cutter unsure but gifted main character girl seems to work better in this show than in many others with less complete and different setting and atmosphere. During the first episode I simply found her amusing and though the wrongness in the world was nicely reflected against her naivety, but now I'm thinking she does also bring something of her own onto the table. I especially liked how she got so different responses from the different enforces and other people, even if I'm not going as far as claiming there would have been any especially unique characters in this show so far.

[Idealistic]

Dat implied lesbianism was hot.

[Ryllharu]

I think after having watched the second episode, I can look past the character design and just enjoy it. They're doing a good job with the setting, infusing everything with it, and the hidden dystopia in this "perfect" system lurks around every corner, a nice touch. That's how series like this should be done. Take one idea, and run with it to extremes and how it impacts every layer of society.

The Enforcers generally hate her already, as they should for shooting one of their own on her very first day, except the one she shot, interestingly enough.

I think what really sold me the series was the conversation she had with her friends, and with the punk enforcer in the cafeteria. Two very different viewpoints, but both questioning her choice to go into public safety.

[Kraco]

The Enforcers generally hate her already, as they should for shooting one of their own on her very first day, except the one she shot, interestingly enough.

I think what really sold me the series was the conversation she had with her friends, and with the punk enforcer in the cafeteria. Two very different viewpoints, but both questioning her choice to go into public safety.

It's true most would hate her, or at least not like her if hate is too strong a word. Most people we have seen so far have been birds in a cage in one way or another. The enforcers even more so with their destiny predetermined even straight from their childhood. But even so, like I said in my previous post, their outlooks were suitably varying. The young dude was outright hostile, out of youthful envy, perhaps. The old man has seemingly given up and is just living from day to day and wants nothing to disturb his peace; so he willingly advices Akane a lot to make sure she just lets things slide as smoohtly as possible. Although he also looks like the kind of a person who would suddenly snap if given a chance.

Kougami is vastly different from the rest, or of those that we have learned anything about, at least, because he doesn't particularly mind being an enforcer, supposedly having a goal of his own that likely benefits from that occupation. That's precisely why he can easily make Akane cry tears of relief. Being the only person there with eyes set beyond the horizon, he's at the moment stronger than anyone. Akane should have had all the doors open but in fact didn't know what to do with those doorways, so she's understandably very weak, in addition to being simply inexperienced.

[Ryllharu]

The old man has seemingly given up and is just living from day to day and wants nothing to disturb his peace; so he willingly advices Akane a lot to make sure she just lets things slide as smoohtly as possible. Although he also looks like the kind of a person who would suddenly snap if given a chance.
Akane was insightful enough to notice that the old man's words as they were leaving the mall translated to, "Don't get in our way. You're only needed on scene with us because it is required."

He seems friendly, but currently he dislikes her as much as the young guy does. The other two women are at least courteous to her, but they're not friendly either.

[Buffalobiian]

The old guy definitely sees her as being a burden on how things have been running, but I'm not so sure about the punk fellow. He was angry at the cafeteria, but when the girl delivered her report he seemed surprised, then pleased.

He was angry at her because she had all this choice but wasted it.. (as well as thinking she was probably not cut for the job). He might not understand or approve of her ideas at this point, but he's definitely glad an interested that she has them.

The Dr brought up the idea about reforms. That's going to be the MC's role in all this.

(I had forgotten last episode that the crew were "latent" criminals and not actual criminals, even if the difference means nothing to Sybil.)

As for the whole slow-gun issue I raised last time, if we're catching future criminals, it's probably safe to say they're not carrying a gun right now since Sybil is supposed to pick up on their state of mind right before that should occur.

[Kraco]

He seems friendly, but currently he dislikes her as much as the young guy does.

Yeah. He's old and thus has more experience under his belt. Despite being a latent criminal, he's still in good control of his feelings and actions, unlike the young chap. So, he doesn't lash out with harsh words, but rather tried to make sure Akane won't cause unnecessary trouble by fumbling around blindly. But like you said, he's not really any happier, deep down. Plus I don't think he'd be as quick to change his point of view as the young dude.

I hope the next episode will reveal something more about the silent woman. It does seem like a manly place, so she could use a friendly woman around.

[Ryllharu]

I hope the next episode will reveal something more about the silent woman. It does seem like a manly place, so she could use a friendly woman around.
If what she was doing in this episode was any indication, she was a member of a light music club in school, but her lesbian tendencies were vehemently rebuked by the other girls in the band, the strain causing the group to break up and making her a latent criminal due to the feelings of betrayal.

;)

[Archangel]

Episode 3:

Nice red herring with the supervisor, turns out the one who looked the most guilty was just an average Joe in this dystopian world.

I still don't quite get how the dominator works though, how did it read the mental status of a Drone? And why did it deem this guy salvageable and not the one in the first episode?

[Inazuma]

You ask the good questions Archangel - but I'll leave it as "Sybil knows best but eventually will turn out as being the supervilain AI overlord"

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 03 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=366666)


----------------------



I don't know about the whole "reading the mind of a drone" thing.. if the criminal was conscious, then the gun could have been reading his murderous intent instead. Kogami then directed the death shot at the drone (and since it's an inanimate object, it doesn't trigger a re-evaluation).

He was pretty much out of commission though, I'm not really too sure how that theory would hold.

The easiest theory is to say that Sibyl is a super-analytic computer and isn't limited to only recognising data on human mental status.

[Kraco]

It takes much less technology to deduce a robot is out of control than to measure the mental state of a human. Besides, there's really no need to gauge a work robot like that. They are only machines. I bet the gun records everything that happened, so a video of the situation will reveal to anybody afterwards the financial losses incurred by the loss of two drones was highly justified. And that's all that happened: Slight financial losses, no human lives lost.

But at least with this we saw for sure that the gun is able to stop anything. It looked like some sort of plasma shot.

I called Akane a cookie-cutter character after the previous ep and this only strenghtens that view. But on the other hand, being like that looks very natural for a green officer with only school smarts and a friendly personality that wants to trust and help people. With the system and society like it is, I guess the only way to make the show more humane was to have a main character that would better belong to more civilized times and thus struggles against the current cold values. Although GitS worked perfectly despite the friendlier characters being more on the sidelines or even goofy insectoid robots.

[shinta|hikari]

I think the gun evaluated the guy but the shot was used against the machines. I agree with Buff's initial assessment.

[Archangel]

I think the gun evaluated the guy but the shot was used against the machines. I agree with Buff's initial assessment.
Then why did it change modes?

[shinta|hikari]

I was initially thinking that the crimes the guy committed has aggravated his assessment, but I remembered that they were judging people based on their mental state, so that is not possible. It seems like the gun did indeed judge the situation instead of a specific target. The gun did say that the threat was of a certain level before it changed modes.

[Kraco]

How the gun blew up the guy in the first ep and how it put a hole into the droid looked results wise very different. The case with a human target looked like it injected some super catalyst that blew the guy from inside out, but the robot clearly suffered damage similar to more ordinary means of destruction, like a high explosive shaped charge, for example. Even if it looked like a ball of plasma. That makes me believe the system only really rates humans and is more lax with non-human targets.

[shinta|hikari]

It is also possible that the gun analyzed the target and selected the best way to destroy it.

[Xelbair]

It is a 3rd mode - it detected non-organic threat and changed to specific mode.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 04 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=369279)

[Kraco]

Quite bloody indentity theft cases. The traces of the first (?) incident have probably got cold already, but if Akane can track down the (original) person behind Spooky Boogie fast enough, there shouldn't be so much the dudes can do about not getting caught. Like was said, you can hardly move in that city without being recorded. Of course that assumes Akane won't be satisfied only meeting Spooky Boogie online. It's kind of hard to say yet whether she has the detective's instinct to want to dig deeper than the surface at this point. Although of course she might also have the instinct to realise something is different about the cat should they first meet online, provided that's even possible. The murdering thieves might be too smart to risk themselves needlessly.

In any case, internets is serious business... Serious enough to kill!

[shinta|hikari]

I really like how they are taking current trends to extremes in this futuristic fictional world. Internets becoming serious business is actually a very interesting theme, and the offline meeting with anonymity was a great twist on the concept.

[Buffalobiian]

I would hate to get into a popularity contest like that.. but then again I don't like having to work for popularity in the first place.(Being popular in itself isn't really a bad thing, but if that's all you were, then you'll get stuck in an identity crisis trying to maintain it.. which sucks).

The story's once again confirmed that a cloudy psycho-pass is simply an indicator that you are capable of thinking in a way that would let you carry out crimes. We can assume that the Sybil system only allows those who get good grades (smart) and are also of clear psycho-pass (pure) to work in positions of power. However since they're incapable of thinking like real criminals, they are reliant on putting Enforcers on a leash to do all the actual work.

Having to work with people you are theoretically supposed to never understand.. I like this puzzling job.

I'm hoping to see Akane's psycho-pass develop dangerously close to criminal levels in order to see how they'd start responding to that. I can foresee Kogami distancing himself from her for her own good, Akane trying to decide if she wants to know more about Kogami despite the risks, and perhaps something that makes Akane capable of understanding Kogami without going cloudy - explaining why Sybil says she's got an affinity to be an Inspector.

[shinta|hikari]

I hope there won't be any sort of revolution against the system at the end of this show. That is the usual ending for this kind of story. I am hoping for a status quo maintenance ending, but with things that will make you question everything and anything before such a conclusion.

[Kraco]

Yeah, I hope so as well. This sort of story would be better served with just an eye-opener ending, shedding of naivety, and simply realising what kind of a world she's living in. Plus recognizing that she doesn't need to understand everybody to be able to work with them.

[Ryllharu]

I'm hoping to see Akane's psycho-pass develop dangerously close to criminal levels in order to see how they'd start responding to that. I can foresee Kogami distancing himself from her for her own good, Akane trying to decide if she wants to know more about Kogami despite the risks, and perhaps something that makes Akane capable of understanding Kogami without going cloudy - explaining why Sybil says she's got an affinity to be an Inspector.Except that's not her role and it was something they've already hinted at a few times in episodes 2 and 3.

Akane's special purpose in life is to humanize the Enforcers. Maybe even bring them back down to acceptable levels. She doesn't bring peace to the people they are tasked with bringing in or killing, she brings peace to those who police the city. All they ever see outside anymore is the worst society has to offer.

Kogami has already expressed a desire to be more of a detective than a hunting dog. He likes the brain work. He's not jealous of Masaoka's raw instincts. He admires them, but when he opened up to Akane a little bit, he admitted that he would like to not simply punish people by hunting them down, but track them down. He wants to be what she was allowed to be.

Masaoka is similar. He used to be one of those people, but seeing the dregs of society over and over broke him, and he became more and more of an Enforcer. He can do the brainwork, but as they've alluded to, he's seen it all, and became cynical and jaded. That's why his psycho-pass is absurdly high. I'd guess everyone he looks at reminds him of the horrible things others have done. Akane probably can't help him too much, but it might be too soon to say.

Gino just get angry at being trapped into working there without even really understanding why he is there in the first place, and we know nothing about Kunizuka yet.

Regarding this episode, I do hope Akane is the one who blows up the bad guys here herself. She can't truly understand her charges when she's never had to shoot someone herself.

[Buffalobiian]

Akane's special purpose in life is to humanize the Enforcers. Maybe even bring them back down to acceptable levels. She doesn't bring peace to the people they are tasked with bringing in or killing, she brings peace to those who police the city. All they ever see outside anymore is the worst society has to offer.

Kogami has already expressed a desire to be more of a detective than a hunting dog. He likes the brain work. He's not jealous of Masaoka's raw instincts. He admires them, but when he opened up to Akane a little bit, he admitted that he would like to not simply punish people by hunting them down, but track them down. He wants to be what she was allowed to be.

Will humanising them bring their psycho-pass down? If so, perhaps it's not really a good thing, since the reason the Enforcers are there is because their psycho-passes are high. They have the ability for criminal activity, but choose not to (or are forced not to) and instead work for the law.

[Ryllharu]

Gino made it clear. They either work for the law and are let out from time to time to hunt, or they are imprisoned for life in a care facility. It's not much of a choice.

Inspectors are just as capable as Enforcers are at locating people and using a Dominator. The difference is Akane doesn't want to view herself as a handler who leads a pack of dogs. She wants to believe they're co-workers. Using someone with a high psycho-pass to track people down just shortens the pursuit, but it isn't a panacea for finding criminals. That much has been made obvious in this episode. Everyone but Akane was useless in even getting them started, no one else used chat circles.

[Kraco]

Will humanising them bring their psycho-pass down? If so, perhaps it's not really a good thing, since the reason the Enforcers are there is because their psycho-passes are high. They have the ability for criminal activity, but choose not to (or are forced not to) and instead work for the law.

It's clear the psycho-pass rating does have a solid, undebatable basis, otherwise the system wouldn't have such a huge effect in the society. So, it should be impossible to "save" these people by bringing their rating down. After all, at least some of them were brought in before they had a chance to really do any crimes. However, Akane's role might be to make them feel themselves humans once again, not dogs, despite the high rating. A small thing in the bigger picture but it could be a big thing for them personally.

There are lots of latent criminals out there that haven't become real criminals because of their otherwise successful circumstances. It's not like a crime has much value in itself, it's more like a means to an end. Even the world in this show has lots of people like that wandering around, despite the scanners.

[Buffalobiian]

It's clear the psycho-pass rating does have a solid, undebatable basis, otherwise the system wouldn't have such a huge effect in the society. So, it should be impossible to "save" these people by bringing their rating down. After all, at least some of them were brought in before they had a chance to really do any crimes. However, Akane's role might be to make them feel themselves humans once again, not dogs, despite the high rating. A small thing in the bigger picture but it could be a big thing for them personally.

If it's a small thing in the bigger pictures, then is it something Sybil would even bother to assign value to?

The Psycho-pass rating system seems to have real-world corelations, but that doesn't mean you can't bring it down. The rape victim and the factory worker showed that.


Inspectors are just as capable as Enforcers are at locating people and using a Dominator. The difference is Akane doesn't want to view herself as a handler who leads a pack of dogs. She wants to believe they're co-workers. Using someone with a high psycho-pass to track people down just shortens the pursuit, but it isn't a panacea for finding criminals. That much has been made obvious in this episode. Everyone but Akane was useless in even getting them started, no one else used chat circles.

On the other hand, the Investigators were kinda stumped in the factory case due to their sole reliance on Dominators. I wouldn't say investigators are useless, but they're not good at situations where you have the lure the target out (you have to think like criminals, and if you have a high enough aptitude your Psycho-pass follows suit).

In a sense, the naming of these two parties should be switched. The latent criminals are the ones who are doing any real "investigating", while the "government guys" are the ones to enforce the law by pulling the trigger on suspects and fellow co-workers.

[Ryllharu]

No, it is perfectly fine the way it is. The Enforcers don't investigate anything. Other than Kougami trying to be one, the others just do. Kagari follows the Dominator fairly blindly so far. Masaoka doesn't investigate at all. He looks around and through experience and instinct points out the target. He's very much the most dog like. Kunizuka just follows Ginoza around, but she doesn't get screentime.

Investigators take the analytical approach to the area of interest (though often led by a stray scan). Enforcers flush the target out. Both trust the Dominators to tell them who they can and can't stun, can and can't kill. Investigators use paperwork and reports, they think (or in Akane's case, try to), Enforcers just feel.

[Kraco]

If it's a small thing in the bigger pictures, then is it something Sybil would even bother to assign value to?

Well, it's the whole reason for Sybil's existence, so surely it will bother. I merely meant that for the society as a whole, it's a tiny thing if some enforcerer is happy or not. They are on a short leash in any case and have to rely on Sybil to shoot anybody, so it's not likely they will pose much danger even if they become deranged.


The Psycho-pass rating system seems to have real-world corelations, but that doesn't mean you can't bring it down. The rape victim and the factory worker showed that.

Those are entirely different cases. The rape victim and the factory worker were normal persons put through hell, twisting their personality. If they are saved from that hell, they can be possibly returned to the normal person state (although the factory worker is a murderer already, so he's beyond full grace already). The enforcerers are born to be potential criminals due to genetic factors or something else fundamental, I reckon. We don't know it for sure, but it's possible none of them have a criminal record, though, so in theory they should be fully respectable citizens, aside from their cloudy psycho-pass restricting their life.

[Archangel]

Episode 05:

Really good episode, it was great to see them doing some real detective work for a change. The fact that Inspectors are prone to becoming Enforcers themselves brings some interesting possibilities for the future of the plot, i'm looking forward to it.

One thing that still annoys me though is the Dominator. Last time it was in this mode it shot the exact same body part and it blew the whole individual, this time it just took off the arm. If there aren't any inherent rules for its functionality then it's just another deus ex machina waiting to happen.

[Ryllharu]

But the Dominator sure has a sexy voice.

It reminds me of Juiz from Eden of the East, even though I know it is Hidaka Noriko, most notably of Gunbuster (Noriko), Inuyasha (Kikyou), and Ranma (Akane).

I'm willing to bet it is the Sibyl system directly, not just a priority channel with a UI on top.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 05 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=371876)



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Saw the Inspector->Enforcer idea coming (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/21195-Psycho-Pass?p=520924&viewfull=1#post520924), but didn't suspect Kogami as being such a candidate until Ginoza talked about a friend having fallen.

I liked the convincing explanation that Kougami plays the role of both Investigator and Enforcer that addresses some of the difference in opinion that myself and Ryll had before. I expected all Enforcers to act like Kougami did and previously reasoned their inactivity simply due to their less-than-main-character status.


Inspectors are just as capable as Enforcers are at locating people and using a Dominator. The difference is Akane doesn't want to view herself as a handler who leads a pack of dogs. She wants to believe they're co-workers. Using someone with a high psycho-pass to track people down just shortens the pursuit, but it isn't a panacea for finding criminals. That much has been made obvious in this episode. Everyone but Akane was useless in even getting them started, no one else used chat circles.

That just shows that Akane was able to help out in this investigation because she knew the terrain. I agree with her in the last segment of the show - it really came down to Enforcers Kougami to nail down the guy.

It really begs the question of how other teams with clear-cut Enforcer/Inspector combos work. Enforcers aren't incapable of thinking (though it's not their job description), while Investigators (by their very definition) are incapable of mimicking the thoughts of their prey.
Gino is "investigative" in that he's asking questions, but the problem is he asks all the wrong ones. The affinity of Enforcers (with proper training/ability) would be much more efficient. I suppose my previous idea of Enforcers/Investigators changing names is now amended to something like:

Enforcers should be Detectives (Enforcer/Inspector combos, assuming you have the talent pool), while Inspectors should be more like Judges. Not judges of criminal probability (that's Sybil's job), but judging the actions of Detectives based on their own beliefs/values. That's not any different from our real-world scenario of police and their conduct review peers.


Both trust the Dominators to tell them who they can and can't stun, can and can't kill.

I wouldn't use "trust", since they don't have a choice. The Dominator is the prescribed diagnostic tool (criminal +ve/-ve) that they have to use in order to bring down the law (with a rather absurdly high false positive rate, might I add). Inspectors are reliant on them in identifying criminals, while Enforcers could shoot the true criminals based on their own talent/instincts with relative accuracy. The Dominators simply give them the license to do so.

[Inazuma]

Has it ever been suggested that a Dominator could be forced to switch over to one mode rather the mode the diagnostic finds appropriated ?

[Kraco]

I found it ridiculous the Dominator forced the execution of this guy. That removed all the chances of the criminal actually revealing anything under normal interrogations. It's probably nothing but on another sign how absolutely reliant the society has become on the Sibyl system and computer jazz. They feel like they don't really need to do any old-fashioned police work (Gino is a perfect example of this, always relying on the most obvious solutions and then left cursing when it didn't work like the textbook said).

Akane is objectively speaking blaming herself too much. She's totally fresh out of school and I got the feeling she might have been the honours student type in good and bad: Believing everything she read (and reading a lot). I think that was partially proven by how quickly she was going to check the book Masaoka mentioned; as if that was the important point, not what he was saying. So, now in practical work she's going to be lost for a while, because I assume she's not the genius type who would have completely internalized everything she read and being able to combine it all on the spot, adapting it all to formulate new theories. To mention Gino again, I think he's ended up to the same place out of his own free will: To spare himself and his psycho-pass, he stopped thinking and feeling and only relies on basic concepts out of the books.

[Xelbair]

They(dominators) use simple logic akin to this probably

get crime coefficient
if crime coefficient above 100
do change(non-lethal)
else if crime coefficient above 175
do change(lethal)
else if special is true
do change(annihilator) // anti-machine mode from 2 eps back

dominators just transmit data to Sibyl system, which (probably) can find target in database, get reading of target's psycho-pass. Sybil sends back just the crime coefficient to dominators.

dominators also probably send visual data in real-time feed, so Sybil can detect non organic threats too(annihilation mode for machines)

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 06 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=374443)

[Kraco]

More was told of the criminal mastermid, for good or for ill. Of course it's still too late to judge it entirely, but I wouldn't like all the major crimes in this show to be designed by one man. It would make this nothing but Kougami's personal story and far less social commentary utilising the rather intriguing world setting. Or in other words, it would make this story much smaller, much more dependent on the limited characters. Perhaps it would prevent tearing down the Sybil system, which I hope won't happen like has been said in this thread before, but the price would be kind of steep. I suppose every story needs a final boss, but he doesn't need to be behind every single thing like some Aizen.

[Ryllharu]

I think it is too soon to say he's behind everything, more like he's the antithesis of the Sybil system and the therapy sessions. They ensure that people get into therapy before they get too far gone (or take care of them in some other way). This guy seeks out people (probably the same way Masaoka "smells" them, raw instinct), and gives them the means to fulfill their most twisted homicidal desires. Nothing more, nothing less.

On the other side, the psychotherapists use Sybil and the Psycho-Pass to find these same people, who either come willingly of their own accord, or are brought back by Public Safety.

He had his assistants (hired hackers, chemists and whatever the hell this girl needs), and the Sybil system has psychotherapists.

[Buffalobiian]

Do people with intentions (but no method) suffer from illegal psychopass ratings? What about the guys who supply the method of killing?

You'd think they would, just like how Enforcers have a high psychopass without necessarily doing anything. In that case, the Sybil system should be working since Inspectors tend to simply scan suspects anyway.

On the other hand, if those parameters don't give people a high psychopass, exactly what does?

[Kraco]

Realistically speaking there should be real cold-blooded psychopaths who would have "perfect" psycho-pass even though they could already be murderers. If killing a person means nothing more to them than repairing a toaster to someone normal, then there's no way their psycho-pass would move to any direction from their default value. And if that default value happens to be close enough numerically, however they are measured, to a normal person's, then that psycho would be forever cool in front of scanners.

However, I assume for a normal person it doesn't matter if he has the method or even if he has or hasn't actually done it, but if he's mentally already deranged enough to be ready to pull it off at a moment's notice, his psycho-pass would already indicate it. If he's simply a normal person pissed off at a neighbour letting their dog bark all night and during the darkest hours of the night swears he will kill that neighbour if there's one more sleepless night, then I'd guess his psycho-pass would hardly become bad enough. Because normal person wouldn't kill their neighbour, after all, over something like that, despite certainly having the means (since a simple knife would do just fine).

[Xelbair]

What i get is that cold-blooded criminals can pass hue-assessment by scanners in public place without any problems, but direct thorough check reveals them.

[Ryllharu]

But that hasn't usually been the case. They get pinged by a public scanner at a street corner, and are notified that they are at the point where they will require immediate counseling. It's usually at that point that they disappear underground and don't get registered by a scanner for several days. The briefings at the Public Safety HQ make a point of noting when and where they last time one of their targets got scanned.

They're not passing by the scanners, they're actively avoiding them, an act that evidently sends red-flags to Public Safety even faster. These things aren't anywhere near as ubiquitous like the 4-Red-Dots cameras in Accel World, or even British CCTV cameras. These are more like cameras in American cities.

Most are a few days, but the avatar stealer hadn't been scanned in weeks or months or something crazy.

[Inazuma]

No Dominator action in Psycho Pass is like - No mecha in Gundam. It makes me sad.

[Kraco]

Episode 7 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=376725)





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Even Gino should now be able to catch this plasticizer girl. If he can't, he should submit his resignation letter. Although I doubt they will get any further than her, but she's more than obvious: Girls that go to talk to her disappear, and she uses her phone as a key to the basement, which should be a highly trackable action. Really, there's no way they wouldn't catch her. Even without dominators.

[shinta|hikari]

It is precisely because of such advanced tools that their deductive capabilities have rotted. Any decent detective would have caught psycho girl by now.

[Archangel]

You're all assuming getting into the school will be a simple task, i don't think all those rich parents will be too keen on letting latent criminals have any sot of contact with their kids.

They may find a way in through the parents of the dead children though.

[Ryllharu]

Akane looks like she never left high school. It won't be that hard.

Kougami says he trains to make sure Akane won't have to be the one who pulls the trigger on a suspect. I'm not going to be surprised that it was foreshadowing if infiltration is the route they go.

Sooner or later, Akane is going to have to kill someone. Her whole career can't always be marshmallows and good feelings.

[Archangel]

She looks nowhere near as young as the girls there.

Though i guess infiltration via holograph is also possible

[Kraco]

You're all assuming getting into the school will be a simple task, i don't think all those rich parents will be too keen on letting latent criminals have any sot of contact with their kids.

If anything, the Sybil system seems to have increased the cops' authority, so I'd expect even rich parents won't have much to say about a murder investigation, especially with gruesome victims already in existence and more people missing, plus the old case that also took place in the same school. It's a different thing how they are going to conduct the investigation, but I also agree with Ryll on Akane being good material for less glaring infiltration. With some holographic aid, nobody will notice a thing.

Besides, what kind of a parent would allow their child to normally attend a school with a wanton series killer on the loose? The least they would do is to encourage a subtle investigation. It's one thing to allow the school's reputation to be sullied, but it wouldn't really matter anymore if the kid herself was dead, now would it? They would probably sue the school for big money...

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 08 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=378984)

[Kraco]

It's now undeniably proven that basic detective work has taken a gigantic, and possibly critical, hit due to this Sybil system. As a result it has made life far easier for the rarer but all the more dangerous people who can actually take advantage of the system. With no human minds behind the police work, they are free to leave any amount of such traces that won't be processed by computers without a worry. Now I'm starting to reverse my original opinion of not wanting to see the destruction of Sybil... That might still be a stretch, but I'd want to see them start a critical governmental review process of their current law enforcement and what is expected of it. Because clearly traditional crime investigation work in addition to Sybil would bring them far better results. However, as long as Gino is in charge, that's a lost prospect. That man is a drone.

[Buffalobiian]

Gino sucks as a detective because he relies solely on finding random bits of evidence instead of assuming suspects to be guilty until proven innocent. Also, his pattern recognition sucks. I can only conclude that all the criminal psychology courses went out of business after Sybil appeared to be the perfect end to it all.

Gino is closer to a scholar (or an archeologist?) than a detective.

At least malicious intent is picked up 100% by Sybil I suppose. Those murder-tool-suppliers must also have crazily high psycho-passes and are just evading scanners.

[Kraco]

You give Gino even more credit than I do. I don't know what he was like in the beginning, but I suspect he might have been a bit like Akane: Really good grades out of school and believing everything the books told him. However, he wasn't lucky enough to have somebody like Kogami to demonstrate concretely what a real detective is like. Instead he witnessed somebody like the past Kogami to get too involved, too crafty, and ruin his psycho-pass. As a result, I believe, he shut his mind even more to the outside world and got stuck to thinking inside the box (only following the textbooks) and keeping his feelings, including intuition, strictly locked away during working hours. So, he became a walking proxy of the Sybil system.

I'm still not altogether sure the Sybil system is 100% foolproof. I won't believe that before Makishima is scanned. Possibly also the tool supplier, but he might be just an ordinary thug following instructions.

I wonder if the teacher (or was he even the principal) got fined because he obstructed a law enforcement officer.

[Kraco]

Episode 9 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=381004)






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A part of the reason why Gino's is so self-crippled was explained, in a sufficient way in my opinion. However, I still don't feel it's justified. The system itself is flawed, of course, and looks more like a bubblegum and duct tape solution than something that should serve as the nations police force. Basically while the Sybil system made things considerable harder for the average criminal, it also ruined the cops. Then to have "doomed" cops serve as enforcerers and have wooden inspectors (who must not be interested in solving crimes at all but only concentrate on guarding their own psycho-pass) to keep an eye on those enforcerers is sheer stupidity. Yet at the same time it's strangely realistic, if you imagine how things might turn out, should such a remotely mind analysing system be developed and employed. While I'm happy Akane isn't satisfied on serving such absurd terms, unlike Gino, I still can't help but hope she won't fall like Kogami, either.

The old full-body cyborg geezer sure is a creepy dude. The interviewer should have asked if he isn't at all bothered by the fact how he's resting right at the bottom of the uncanny valley when he was pressing her for confessions. He isn't made any better by the human bone pipes. Somehow I doubt he would have much of a chance against Kogami. But he must be pretty smart all in all, though, and probably has devised a way to fool psycho-pass scanners with his cybernetic body. Maybe he has shielded his brain and has some external emitter sending a prerecorded, perfectly normal signal that the scanners will catch instead.

[Buffalobiian]

Kogami will hunt him back in the end, but I'll think the old guy will give him a pretty hard time. He's a seasoned hunter, after all.. though the quality of his prey is questionable. Plus, he seems to release those cybernetic dogs instead of doing some real hunting.. so I have no idea where he gets this "thrill" from.

If it was instead the excitement from holding something made from taboo human parts as trophies, that's more believable.

As for the whole guarding-psycho-pass idea, I think it's just Gino's take on things. If it was actually something Inspectors were supposed to keep in mind, it would have been part of the basic training even Akane received. The training modules might have programmed the Inspectors indirectly by explaining that Inspectors are only interested in results but not the how of a crime, but even that's a guess at best.

[Ryllharu]

Kogami will hunt him back in the end, but I'll think the old guy will give him a pretty hard time. He's a seasoned hunter, after all.. though the quality of his prey is questionable. Plus, he seems to release those cybernetic dogs instead of doing some real hunting.. so I have no idea where he gets this "thrill" from.
He's doing it the European aristocrat way. Those are "fox" hounds. They do most of the work, and the "hunter" casually blasts their prey with a crossbow, rifle, or whatever, at the point where the prey is so injured there is no way they could possibly miss. That's exactly what he did to the girl. She was already wounded to the point of helplessness before he ever approached.

It was never real hunting, it is hunting for sport.

Masaoka or Kougami are real hunters. The old cyborg can't compare.

[Buffalobiian]

He's doing it the European aristocrat way. Those are "fox" hounds. They do most of the work, and the "hunter" casually blasts their prey with a crossbow, rifle, or whatever, at the point where the prey is so injured there is no way they could possibly miss. That's exactly what he did to the girl. She was already wounded to the point of helplessness before he ever approached.

It was never real hunting, it is hunting for sport.

Hmm, indeed. I wrongly thought that the hound ripped the girl's head off last episode, but he did indeed come down to deal the final blow.

[Kraco]

It's true Kogami might face problems if he needs to deal with more than one robot dog at a time. I doubt the geezer would want to face him where the Sybil system works, so Kogami wouldn't be able to blast the robots into smithereens with his dominator. Despite smoking, he has looked tough enough to kick their metal asses if it's a duel. Like has been said, the old man himself won't be a problem if Kogami can still fight, with or without a dominator. Anybody needing robot dogs and shotguns against a schoolgirl won't hold a candle to a real hunter.

[shinta|hikari]

I hope Akane kills the old man.

Being killed by a helpless bunny would be his just desserts.

[Kraco]

I suppose that wouldn't be bad, either. As long as it's not Akane saving Kogami's life in the process. That's something I don't want to see. Although I wouldn't particularly mind if Akane never needed to kill anybody. In the end that's an enforcer's job. It might make Akane's psycho-pass cloudy, and she's cuter this way, even if she can't exactly remain innocent for too long in a job like that, no matter if it's her pulling the trigger or somebody else.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't need Akane to personally kill anyone, but what I would like to see is her putting the professor's profiling lectures to good use and become more useful. I don't really mind whether we have an issue with her psycho-pass deteriorating or not (it would hopefully be well-played either way), but I do want her to ultimately remain clear as per Kogami's prediction.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 10 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=383111)

[ASL]_Rin_Toshite_Shigure_-_Psycho_Pass_OP_-_Abnormalize [FLAC] (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=380496) [MP3] (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=380497)

[ASL]_EGOIST_-_Psycho_Pass_ED_-_Namae_no_nai_Kaibutsu [FLAC] (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=380803) [MP3] (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=380804)

[Idealistic]

This episode was awesome. I was at the edge of my seat the whole time.

How Kogami figured the antenna might be in that girl's underwear is beyond me. Forced fan service I guess.

Also, how did asshole Gino come to the conclusion that Kogami deceived Akane so that he could "run" away? Wth would be running away from anyway? I hate Gino so much. My guess is his Psycho Pass will become clouded somewhere down the line.... but the group will save him and thus disproving the system. Just a thought.

[Buffalobiian]

How Kogami figured the antenna might be in that girl's underwear is beyond me. Forced fan service I guess.

He figured she was part of the game.. and that keeping her with him would somehow play a part. From there, it's simply coming to the idea that something of use can be found on her and to unwrap his present.


Also, how did asshole Gino come to the conclusion that Kogami deceived Akane so that he could "run" away? Wth would be running away from anyway?

He'd be running away from confinement. His current life is one similar to being under house arrest.

I don't blame Gino for assuming Kogami's run away. They do not have a clue on why someone would capture Kogami/Akane. Based on facts alone, Kogami (an individual with an illegal psychopass-rating) has gone missing for unknown reasons.

[shinta|hikari]

I do blame Gino, because he knows Kogami.

He was basically ignoring everything he knew about the person just to satisfy his by the book investigative decisions. Pathetic. I loved how much of a child he looked like when he was being tossed around like a rag doll.

Kogami, you are bad ass.

[Buffalobiian]

I think he believes in the psycho-pass system to the point where he'll trust that over his own instincts (reflected by his conversation with Kogami before about their differing methods, as well as the Dominator idea from this episode). It's cold, but it works with regards to this society and his role in it.

I took his immediate (and rather enthusiastic) command to send in as many reinforcements as he can to be a sign that he still cares greatly for Kogami.

It's kinda funny how those mechanical dogs were inferior to real dogs as far as odour-tracking goes. Kogami seemed to be able to outrun them as well.

[shinta|hikari]

I never thought that Gino does not care about Kogami. He is obviously all BL over him. That is what pisses me off. He is even denying his own understanding and feelings for the sake of his subservience to the system.

His philosophy is not only cold, but stupid. This entire case proves that. Who knows how many criminals he has let loose because of his lack of independent thought.

Edit: Akane's friend was yummy. Akane asleep was also yummy.

[Ryllharu]

I think he believes in the psycho-pass system to the point where he'll trust that over his own instincts (reflected by his conversation with Kogami before about their differing methods, as well as the Dominator idea from this episode). It's cold, but it works with regards to this society and his role in it. I disagree. Gino doesn't trust anymore. Least of all himself. He's lost a lot of colleagues or even friends, and it has traumatized him. He either ends up feeling betrayed (Kogami, his father), or a sense of loss (all the other inspectors he respected). He can carry on only because he throws all the rest of his faith into the Sybil system.

The bit at the end was nice. Akane uses a very different approach. After the initial incident with Kogami, where he actually changed for the better as a result, she inherently trusts her Enforcers. She gets to know them, hangs out with them in their prison, seeks them out for advice, and learns from them.

In return, they trust her back, and are now actively defending her and her methods.

Like her best friend said, once Akane gets involved in a conflict, it got resolved very quickly. She has a strong sense of empathy, is a good mediator, and cares about others.


Edit: Akane's friend was yummy. Akane asleep was also yummy.
Indeed.

She also wasn't stupid, aside from the time she grabbed the bag without regard for any traps. Though, I get the feeling anyone in this society would do the same. Who really goes around expecting everything in an area to be booby-trapped? The paranoid, that's who, and they would have cloudy psycho-passes.

She helped Kogami realize that she was being used in a way to force him to abandon her for survival (she recognized she was his handicap). Of course, the trick that Makishima put in was if Kogami abandoned his previous ideals, he would lose the chance to escape. Makishima is testing Kogami's resolve, and the cyborg's hunting/trapping skill.

[Kraco]

I took his immediate (and rather enthusiastic) command to send in as many reinforcements as he can to be a sign that he still cares greatly for Kogami.

Not really. He was just preaching to Akane how she made a terrible mistake with Kogami, and then the next moment Kogami calls and proves him wrong. What was he supposed to do? The only natural reaction is to go all out. Gino is a total waste of skin. Yes, he probably still cares for Kogami, but still being such a scumbag makes it all the worse. He's the worst cop in that whole bunch, yet he has the audacity to give Akane lectures.


Though, I get the feeling anyone in this society would do the same. Who really goes around expecting everything in an area to be booby-trapped? The paranoid, that's who, and they would have cloudy psycho-passes.

Not really. Anybody who has played (computer/console) games, for example. Likely this girl hasn't, though, so I expected her to make mistakes. She doesn't seem like a survivor type at all, which of course was essential to test Kogami in the first place.

[Ryllharu]

Don't you think that this society would have banned such violent games? Playing them would breed a certain disconnect from reality in citizens, clouding their psycho pass, making them prone to violent imagined thoughts. Someone who displayed an enjoyment of such titles would almost certainly become a latent criminal at best.

;)

[Buffalobiian]

Not really. He was just preaching to Akane how she made a terrible mistake with Kogami, and then the next moment Kogami calls and proves him wrong.

He said IF Kogami died, it would be because Akane didn't look after him properly. I can't say he's wrong in his approach. Kogami is a suspect in this missing (or perhaps "escape") case. You investigate them by assuming they're guilty until proven.

While the rest of the part trust (one could argue they knew) Kogami didn't run away, Gino waited for it to be verified.


I disagree. Gino doesn't trust anymore. Least of all himself. He's lost a lot of colleagues or even friends, and it has traumatized him. He either ends up feeling betrayed (Kogami, his father), or a sense of loss (all the other inspectors he respected). He can carry on only because he throws all the rest of his faith into the Sybil system.

Regarding the last sentence, are you saying that Gino trusts the Sybil system? Or is the Sybil system a form of "fact" where trust isn't relevant?

[Ryllharu]

The latter. Gino has faith that the Sibyl system can't be wrong. Otherwise he'd believe his father died wrongly, no?

They did discuss this in the series.

[Buffalobiian]

The latter. Gino has faith that the Sibyl system can't be wrong. Otherwise he'd believe his father died wrongly, no?

They did discuss this in the series.

I know, but they didn't go into what we're talking about here. In particular I was seeing if you use the meanings of faith and trust differently. To me they're the same thing.

[Kraco]

He said IF Kogami died, it would be because Akane didn't look after him properly. I can't say he's wrong in his approach. Kogami is a suspect in this missing (or perhaps "escape") case. You investigate them by assuming they're guilty until proven.

Gino was the sole person who thought Kogami had arranged this bizarre event with flooded basements and everything just to escape. As if he had needed such bothersome arrangements when he was alone with a cute little girl like Akane if he really had planned to run. Even after everything that has happened lately, Gino is still too dull to try to connect any dots - because that would actually require him to use his own brain and not outsource all thinking to the Sybil. And as we have seen, the Sybil hardly does any thinking, it only analyzes fragments as isolated cases. In fact Gino was purely malicious by suspecting Kogami instead of waiting for a chance to scan him or otherwise directly see how things really stand, like he does with everything else.

[Buffalobiian]

In fact Gino was purely malicious by suspecting Kogami instead of waiting for a chance to scan him or otherwise directly see how things really stand, like he does with everything else.

He was malicious to Kogami because he knows Kogami has a cloudy psycho-pass, while other unscanned candidates from previous cases were otherwise fine.

Kogami is a certified latent criminal and Gino treats him as such. I actually think it's pretty consistent with his behaviour thus far.

[Kraco]

Kogami is a certified latent criminal and Gino treats him as such. I actually think it's pretty consistent with his behaviour thus far.

Fine. Pretty consistent with the behavior of a total scumbag.

[Ryllharu]

In particular I was seeing if you use the meanings of faith and trust differently. To me they're the same thing.
Except for the fact that they're not.

Trust is earned or can granted on an initial basis (and from their it is either earned or lost).

Faith is just that, faith. Faith is trust in something when it cannot be based on proof. There's no way to validate or invalidate the Sibyl system so far in the story. Gino chooses to believe in it. The Sibyl system can never earn someone's trust. One either believes that it is virtuous and true, or they think it is a load of bullshit.

[Buffalobiian]

Hmm.. fair enough.

I do think the Sibyl system can be validated based on the fact that it's reduced crime rates in society. There's no question that it works. The only issue is whether the current standards are overkill or not.

It's not a matter of true vs bullshit.. it's a matter of degree.

[Kraco]

Episode 11 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=385110)




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I wonder if they will try to lock Akane up in some mental institute to silence her. Since pretty much the whole society's workings are reliant on the Sybil, who knows if they can afford to let the public know a murderer can have a perfect psycho-pass. And that the dominator has a fatal flaw. Considering this is Japan where wiping problems under the carpet is the norm, it would be hardly surprising if they tried to hide the issue instead of solving it. The fact the officers have had no training with simpler weapons is also another strong sign how much they depend on these fancy things instead of their own brains.

This is pretty much what I expected from Makishima, so it was hardly unexpected in the bigger picture, though I didn't predict the girl dying. But I suppose it was a high time for Akane to experience something disastrous like that. In this show, that is, not that all officers normally would ever need to experience such incidents, but she's a main character.

[Inazuma]

Well fuck that level of despair was almost Berserk like for me.

Few points ahead :
-Now the next discussion at the MWSBP is going to get interesting. Dominator have been so far a one click kill tool, but now it means the antagonist can actually fight back.
-Interesting how Makishima said that his PP rating has always been pure, I would have found rather hollow the fact he altered it through hacking or drugs. Now that makes him a prophet or a bug, either way things are going to get bumpy.
-Japan has a problem with guns but now Pyscho Pass has a problem with Japan (or Sybil). That all "Can the rules really protect us" thing will be decisive on how strong the plot is going to be. I think Production IG can pull that off I would hate to be disappointed.
- At this point Psycho Pass, can go Witcher hunter Robin or Ghost in the Shell SAC : what do you think will happen ? I'm really looking forward to what is going to be hypothesized in this thread

[Archangel]

Well fuck that level of despair was almost Berserk like for me.
Pfft, this is just the appetizer.

This is by Gen Urobuchi, despair and misery are his middle names.

[Inazuma]

This is by Gen Urobuchi, despair and misery are his middle names.

Should I look up some of his previous work ? Anything in particular Arch ?

[Ryllharu]

Fuck.

They killed Akane's cute friend.

I'm a bit torn though. I like that people like Makishima exist who in their own minds are so completely sane and justifiable that their pyscho-passes are below 100 now matter what horrible things they aid and abet. On the other hand, I think that it is absurdly cheap and a bit of a cop out that he can have the intent to slit an innocent's throat (and even do it) and still be clean.

The latter is kind of a load of shit.

In the Sybil's system, the killing of an innocent should be an auto-fire condition (no trigger pull required), regardless of their psycho-pass.

edit:
The system can recognize non-sentient, non-living threats to the operator of the dominator, but it somehow can't recognize the imminent threat to innocent life?

That's an enormous gaping plot hole. It's next to impossible to justify that level of bullshit, just for drama's sake.

When developing a system like that, where it weighs a person's life and judges and executes them, you don't just forget to incorporate a thing like that.

[Archangel]

Should I look up some of his previous work ? Anything in particular Arch ?
Madoka and Fate/Zero pop to mind but you've probably already watched those.

[Kraco]

In the Sybil's system, the killing of an innocent should be an auto-fire condition (no trigger pull required), regardless of their psycho-pass.

edit:
The system can recognize non-sentient, non-living threats to the operator of the dominator, but it somehow can't recognize the imminent threat to innocent life?

That's an enormous gaping plot hole. It's next to impossible to justify that level of bullshit, just for drama's sake.

When developing a system like that, where it weighs a person's life and judges and executes them, you don't just forget to incorporate a thing like that.

I'll have to disagree. While as a weapon it has a fatal flaw, its functioning can still be explained perfectly if up until now and especially during its testing phase there were simply no cases like this in existence. Or those cases could be convenielty forgotten (since it's Japan we are talking about). The Sybil has so thorough presence in the society that it probably made sense for the people to have the perfect system to judge whether a suspect should be shot or not. And if the companies developing the system could prove that somebody intending to kill another human would always qualify as a target, then what's the problem? There's no inherent unmonetary value in vehicles, robots, and such, so there's no particular need to judge them like humans. But if you want to remove all traces of human error from shooting humans, then it all must go through the psycho-pass readings. In theory a computer relying on visual data (like a human using their eyes) would be prone to errors as well, while the psycho-pass obviously was deemed infallible.

Most importantly, if it wasn't like this, then the whole huge presence of the Sybil in the society would be questionable, you must realise. If the authorities were forced to reveal that many cases must be left outside of the psycho-pass, then how could you create a society were people need to constantly stress over their psycho-pass to the point of turning into vegetables and where having a higher reading automatically forces you into treatment even if you had never done anything wrong? No, the Sybil and psycho-pass absolutely must be perfect for that society to function. This is why I said I wouldn't be surprised if Akane was silenced.

[shinta|hikari]

I think people are judged based on their psycho passes and inanimate threats are judged based on their lethality.

I agree with Kraco that this has worked all this time for them so they never accounted for an existence like Makishima. He is probably unique.

[Archangel]

Ryll and I discussed the episode on irc:


[01:12] <Arkangel> [01:02] <%Ryllharu> @ psycho-pass: fuck.~
[01:12] <Arkangel> They really came up with the perfect villain
[01:13] <Arkangel> He literally represents all that's wrong with the system
[01:16] <%Ryllharu> Nah
[01:16] <%Ryllharu> The idea of him is cool
[01:16] <%Ryllharu> The implementation isn't
[01:17] <%Ryllharu> What he did should never have been allowable by the system
[01:17] <%Ryllharu> I would have been much happier had he just abducted
[01:17] <%Ryllharu> What did occur, broke my suspension of disbelief a bit
[01:18] <Arkangel> That's the whole point
[01:18] <%Ryllharu> No
[01:18] <%Ryllharu> It's dropped the series in my regard
[01:18] <Arkangel> They place their faith on technology so highly that they never accounted for this
[01:18] <%Ryllharu> substantially
[01:18] <%Ryllharu> It's a gaping plot hole
[01:18] <Arkangel> There are no loopholes in this world they've created
[01:18] <Arkangel> Or there shouldn't be
[01:19] <Arkangel> The fact that there is is so foreign to sybil that it doesn't know how to react
[01:19] <%Ryllharu> There is NO way the system should have allowed that. After the fact, he should have registered as over 200
[01:19] <%Ryllharu> It should be a hard-coded action
[01:19] <Arkangel> The system doesn't recongize violence as a changer of hue
[01:20] <Arkangel> The hue changes, and that's what leads to violence
[01:20] <Arkangel> It didn't account for the reverse
[01:20] <%Ryllharu> No level of oversight on the development of the Sibyl system should be that obtuse
[01:20] <%Ryllharu> no
[01:20] <%Ryllharu> fuck it
[01:20] <Arkangel> Ryll
[01:20] <Arkangel> Think of this as blind faith
[01:20] <%Ryllharu> arch: It's a load of shit
[01:20] <%Ryllharu> period
[01:20] <Arkangel> Technology is their new religion
[01:20] <Arkangel> They don't question it
[01:20] <%Ryllharu> Look
[01:20] <Arkangel> And technology doesn't question itself
[01:21] <Arkangel> It's a set of rules and orders and this guy is "humanity's" response
[01:21] <%Ryllharu> The system can recognize NON sentient, non-living threats to the operator of the dominator
[01:21] <Arkangel> Because humanity is more than that
[01:21] <%Ryllharu> But it can't recognize the imminent threat to innocent life
[01:21] <%Ryllharu> ?
[01:21] <Arkangel> Because non sentient being have no hue color
[01:21] <%Ryllharu> That's a GAPING plot hole
[01:21] <%Ryllharu> no
[01:21] <%Ryllharu> fuck it
[01:21] <Arkangel> So it was designed to deal with that
[01:21] <%Ryllharu> It's a load of shit
[01:21] <%Ryllharu> You CANNOT justify that plot hole
[01:22] <Arkangel> Not within my own rules but i can from this world's perspective
[01:22] <Arkangel> And i did
[01:22] <Arkangel> Read above
[01:22] <%Ryllharu> This series may have dropped below Btooom, just for that
[01:24] <Arkangel> Yeah i disagree with that completely
[01:24] <Arkangel> PP has been getting better each week for a while now
[01:24] <%Ryllharu> No arch
[01:24] <Arkangel> Yes Ryll
[01:25] <%Ryllharu> Technology being their "religion" doesn't matter
[01:25] <%Ryllharu> It is 100% unbelievable that the developer of the sybil system would simply forget a contingency like that
[01:25] <Arkangel> I'll simplify it even further
[01:25] <%Ryllharu> There's no way
[01:25] <Arkangel> As time went on and technology was developed
[01:25] <%Ryllharu> You CANNOT justify it
[01:25] <%Ryllharu> It's a plot hole
[01:25] <Arkangel> Humanity came to believe that technology > humanity
[01:26] <Arkangel> This guy is now here to tell them that's a load of shit
[01:26] <%Ryllharu> "oh, fiddlesticks, I forgot that people might get murdered"
[01:26] <%Ryllharu> BS
[01:26] <Arkangel> Crow Storm is a bitch
[01:26] <%Ryllharu> You're seeing the forest, and missing the fake cellphone tower trees
[01:28] <Arkangel> You're just not seeing it from the right perspective
[01:28] <Arkangel> You're judging this world on your own logic
[01:28] <Arkangel> Maybe if you lived in a fake world made of holograms you'd feel differently
[01:32] <%Ryllharu> No, I'm judging it from a perspective of someone who would MAKE such a system
[01:32] <%Ryllharu> You would never forget shit liket hat
[01:32] <%Ryllharu> End of discussion.
[01:33] <Arkangel> Lol, end of discussion indeed

Kraco is more or less agreeing with my points, or with what i meant at least.

[Buffalobiian]

You're thinking about this from the consequence perspective Ryll, while the system uses a cause (for lack of a better word in my vocabulary).

If you add in a rule that says "taking an innocent life adds 200 to their PP", it's implying:

<<Just in case Sybil didn't work properly to add 200PP before, we'll add a safety net and say "taking an inno....">>

Thing is, there is no "just in case". Sybil is law, the bible, God.. you name it.

If Sybil was implemented under the idea that it can't be wrong, then you can't write things that imply it can be wrong.

I know this contrasts with how it seemingly evaluates inanimate objects.. and thought of this thought experiment:

1) Droid/car is out of control and is about to collide with Inspector. Lethal. Destroy.
2) Droid w. pilot is out of control and is about to collide with Inspector. Lethal. Destroy? PP?
3) Flying human is out of control and is about to collide with inspector. Lethal. Action??

If I believed in the Sybil system as much as these guys do, I would also argue that it shouldn't judge people as objects and should evaluate them based on their sentient minds.

It sucks... but my personal argument to myself is "Hey, they made a gun that takes 10 seconds to say Hello>Authorised>Graded_PP>Mode_Set before it can do anything.. this ain't so bad".

I'm not sure where the whole "will" thing is coming into all this, but it was interesting that Makishima's PP was lower the more harmful he seemed to be. I would hypothesis that it all comes down to malicious intent. He intends to free Akane from her mental prison. Hopefully it's a bit more involved than this though.

Maybe we'll learn later that Akane is also another ever-pure person.

[Kraco]

I'm not sure where the whole "will" thing is coming into all this, but it was interesting that Makishima's PP was lower the more harmful he seemed to be.

Who knows. I thought it kept getting lower because more time passed from his thrilling time of watching the geezer and Kogami fight each other, so he was calming down. So, his emotions likely were diminishing. But that's just my take.

The society with the Sybil has a serious problem with certain aspects of law enforcement. It has been solved, to a degree, with the bubblegum and duct tape solution of enforcers, but it's a dodgy solution. Basically to shoot somebody with a gun will cloud your psycho-pass. So, how can they have the cops do it? A partial solution to that is make a tool that will judge if pulling the trigger is right or wrong, the dominator. I'm sure that helps people's psycho-pass to stay within acceptable margins, since the blame is shifted elsewhere. It might not matter to the enforcers in practice, but for the sake of appearances the society would likely want to grant them the same "guilt protection" it gives the inspectors who still have a good psycho-pass. (Of course the real reason is not giving real guns to latent criminals, but that's not very politically correct.)

I don't have anything else to add because I addressed the issue on a larger scale already earlier.

[Yukimura]

My take on all this business is that somewhere deep down the dominator is relying on the subjects unconscious sense of right and wrong or some other assumption based on the person being evaluated which Makishima doesn't have or doesn't adhere to as expected. Maybe it's something that anyone with the right mindset could do or maybe he's just got a weird brain chemistry and is a fluke but all it means so far is that the system at it stands now is insufficient to punish all guilty parties. In the grand scheme of things I think Makishima's low psycho-pass is a much less troublesome issue than the completely unaddressed issue of the potential for a cloudy psycho pass not to amount to anything as this leads to innocent people being labeled as latent criminals. It's been said that it's better to not punish a guilty person than to punish an innocent one and Makishima's circumstance ndicates that the system may be following the first half of that at least.

While it's bad that Makishima couldn't be prejudged by the system for his crime everyone else who has been killed to date in the series has been so by someone the system COULD have caught. Thus I consider his potential for system destroying mischief to be fairly limited as he is most dangerous for his ability to raise the psycho pass of others, but those others can, in theory, be caught. The system needs some way to quietly deal with people who are known to be criminals but have no psycho-pass pollution to show for it, but his case doesn't necessarily disprove the theory that a high psycho-pass is a direct indicator of criminal intent which is what would have to be tackled to bring the system down.

Guffawing about how it doesn't make sense that this would ever be allowed to stand from the perspective of the adoption of the system is fair enough, but I would counter with why one would think that the system should be perfect to have been forced down everyone's throat. With enough capital, political clout, and willingness to do whatever it takes to keep public opinion on your side you could force a system like this onto a populace even if you knew there was a slim (let's assume Makishima is literally a one in one hundred million aberration) potential for the psycho pass to fail to predict imminent violent intent.

[Ryllharu]

The far bigger problem I have with it is that him performing the very act of murder instead of merely enabling it turned Makishima from a mastermind sort of character, who is perfectly sane pure-white in his own mind and thus safe from the judgment of a Dominator, into a very cliché, stereotypical fantasy villain.

Now he has become a, "Bwahahah! Your weapons are useless against me! Only the mythical horn of Krondor can destroy my shield, and it is lost to the ages!" type of last boss character.

He went from potentially very interesting, to very boring, all in a single second.

It's not that the Dominator doesn't register him as a problem, it's that it allows him to murder people. He should have always stayed a hands-off villain.

edit: He's suddenly not a genius toying at the edges of a system, preying at its weaknesses, he's just another Medaka Box villain in the wrong series.

[Kraco]

That doesn't make much sense at all, unless your point is specifically that from the story point of view he should have kept his very own hands free of blood. However, considering he has made it possible for others to murder who knows how many people over the years, it's completely and utterly useless to claim he should have a clean psycho-pass simply because he never pulled the trigger directly. A general can order his troops to slaughter ten thousand civilians yet never kill one directly, yet the general is a far bigger criminal than any single soldier under him - and that should reflect in his psycho-pass.

Forgetting the dominator issue, Makishima needing to kill the girl was fine for me story wise as well. In fact not killing anybody by himself and only letting those he manipulates to do it is a big scretch in terms of realism. There was nobody present for him to make murder the girl in the first place. Yet the girl had to die because he became interested in Akane. And basically his interest was either to make her a killer without the proxy of a dominator between them or have her suffer the psychological consequences of watching helplessly her friend being slain. That was exceedingly Makishima like, I'd say, even though we know little of him. He's not a textbook villain precisely because he's not following some inane pattern that supposedly can't be broken (like Hollywood psychopaths do). He's very sane and very insane at the same time, which is likely why the Sybil can't judge him at all.

[Ryllharu]

However, considering he has made it possible for others to murder who knows how many people over the years, it's completely and utterly useless to claim he should have a clean psycho-pass simply because he never pulled the trigger directly. A general can order his troops to slaughter ten thousand civilians yet never kill one directly, yet the general is a far bigger criminal than any single soldier under him - and that should reflect in his psycho-pass.That's only if they felt bad about it, right? There are dozens of military leaders in European history who even throughout their trials at the Hague or wherever, were 100% convinced they were doing the right thing. There have been quite a number even in the last few years, as ex-Serbian leadership is slowly tracked down. All of them convinced that what they are doing on the correct side of justice...just like Makishima.


There was nobody present for him to make murder the girl in the first place. Yet the girl had to die because he became interested in Akane. And basically his interest was either to make her a killer without the proxy of a dominator between them or have her suffer the psychological consequences of watching helplessly her friend being slain.Irrelevant. There are so many worse things he could have done by simply walking away with her in tow after Akane failed with the shotgun. Her friend's screams, and not knowing what the hell Makishima was going to do with her would be far more psychologically damaging. Not only would Akane suffer knowing she failed (as she did in the episode), but she would also be devastated by not knowing what he was going to do with her. Given his previous protégés so far, I imagine Akane or the Enforcers could imagine some truly terrifying possibilities.

The unknown is always so much worse.

edit: Foremost of these would be a clue we were already given. If the poor raped woman in the first developed a lethal pyscho-pass reading just from how she was treated, combine that with the statement Akane's friend made that she wouldn't mind becoming a latent criminal after seeing Kogami. For someone of Makishima's skill, it wouldn't be all that hard to make a new subject to observe, would it?

[Kraco]

I guess we could make all kinds of theories why he did things this way. For fairness's sake, since there isn't hugely wrong with the story otherwise, it would be sensible to consider the story innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. So, Makishima killed the girl right there possibly because she would have been a hindrance and he knew the other cops, who included enforcers not so helpless without a dominator, would be coming soon. And since he was originally interested in Kogami, and Akane was nothing but a last minute addition, it's not like he would need to go all out to formulate masterful plots to maximise her suffering.

I don't think the Sybil and psycho-pass can be so simple that if a criminal doesn't feel bad about what he did, he would get a clear reading. There must be lots of pathological crooks out there who could steal a lollipop from a child's hand and never look back. Something much more rare is going on inside Makishima's head.

[shinta|hikari]

Indeed, Makshima did say that the Sybil system did see through the soul. Most psychopaths don't feel bad or guilty about things they have done, and if that is enough to have a clean pass, then the Sybil system would not have been adopted in the first place.

What makes Makishima special is because he is supposedly the only one to circumvent this. This is what makes him fitting to be the final boss of the show.

EDIT: About the unknown being worse, that is subjective. I would say that it depends on the person. Pessimists with vivid imaginations would fit into your category, but others would simply not think about it as much. Psychological trauma usually happens to those who witness something, not those who imagined something.

[Buffalobiian]

I thought Makishima initially took the girl hostage in order to continue to have fun with Kogami. (He'll personally try to solve the case because he's .. well... personally involved now). He might also feel that he should help Akane out.

Lather Makishima saw Akane and decided to go in a different direction and try something more spontaneous. In all honesty, Makishima risked dying when he tried his little experiment with Akane - the murder was simply the conclusion to Akane's choice. He took the hostage with Kogami being the reason, but used her when Akane looked interesting.

[Yukimura]

I think I can understand where Ryll is coming from now that I've bothered to evaluate his position instead of ignoring him b/c he's being a naysayer and I can agree that Urobochi sacrificed some of Makishima's potential 'i don't know what' as an antagonist by demonstrating his ability to be above the established system through inexplicable specialness rather than a deft manipulation of established loopholes. Instead of demonstrating that he is bound by the same rules as everyone else, but he's just much better at working within them than everyone else we've been shown that he is blessed with some sort of elevated ability which makes him effortlessly superior to the protagonists.

If we were a group of film critics or something maybe that would mean something but as it stands I can honestly say that I am not at all put out about the doors that were closed on Makishima's character by this reveal because I don't care how original or unoriginal a villain Makishima is.

[Kraco]

I think I can understand where Ryll is coming from now that I've bothered to evaluate his position instead of ignoring him b/c he's being a naysayer and I can agree that Urobochi sacrificed some of Makishima's potential 'i don't know what' as an antagonist by demonstrating his ability to be above the established system through inexplicable specialness rather than a deft manipulation of established loopholes. Instead of demonstrating that he is bound by the same rules as everyone else, but he's just much better at working within them than everyone else we've been shown that he is blessed with some sort of elevated ability which makes him effortlessly superior to the protagonists.

Yes, in that sense it's certainly understandable. If this was a story centered around catching the one evil final boss, then and only then it might have been a mistake to render Makishima that much simpler and less mysterious by this episode. But is this that kind of a story? It's true we saw Makishima right in the beginning in the future flashback (or whatever you call that), but afterwards I immediately started to feel this story is about Akane's struggles, Kogami's personality broken by the obsession, and the world screwed by the Sybil. Makishima was simply there somewhere, half forgotten. So, I don't particularly feel like that half forgotten villain's character suffered greatly as a consequence of this episode. In fact things happening like this just reinforced my initial view of this show, which didn't hold Makishima as the pinnacle.

[Ryllharu]

If Arch can do this lazy type of posting, so will I:

[21:36] <@Yukimura> I think i've figured it out
[21:37] <@Yukimura> Ryll is lamenting that psycho pass can't possibly be a 10
[21:37] <@Yukimura> while the rest of us are happy that it's almost guaranteed to be 8+
[21:37] <@Yukimura> on personal rating scales of course
[21:41] <&Y> psycho pass is like the equivalent of The Mentalist or whatever
[21:51] <@Yukimura> i've never watched the mentalist, can I have another item from that 'whatever' list?
[22:11] <Arkangel> It's actually nothing like the mentalist
[22:12] <Arkangel> I hate that shw
[22:12] <Arkangel> show*
[22:20] <&Y> it's a police procedural with a gimmick
[22:22] <@Yukimura> perfect
[22:23] <&Y> what i'm saying is
[22:23] <&Y> psycho-pass is a show you'd never watch if it wasn't a japanese anime
[22:23] <Arkangel> [03:20] <&Y> it's a police procedural with a gimmick
[22:23] <&Y> because it's a fuckin police procedural for god's sake
[22:23] <Arkangel> Which described 99% of all cop shows these days
[22:23] <Arkangel> Fucking CSI started it all i reckon
[22:30] <@Yukimura> I can almost see where you're coming from Y, except for the
[22:33] <@Yukimura> ah nvm, you covered the fact that it's an anime which is the thing that makes it not fully fit the procedural mold anyway
[22:41] <&Y> yeah
[22:42] <&Y> somehow being animated by asians makes police procedurals blockbuster tv

It's has nothing to do with rating, and entirely to do with believability.

But do keep projecting what you think my thought process is.

A badly written plot point that breaks suspension of disbelief for some isn't something others can defend. Conversely, if it didn't break suspension of disbelief for others, it's not something you can really persuade them into agreeing with.

I know Arch worships Gen Urobuchi for Fate/Zero and Madoka, so he was a lost cause. If I can't convince you others by now, there's no point in continuing to attempt to do so.

(As an aside: 10s are only for series that are compositionally perfect for me. Pyscho-Pass was never going to be a 10 for me. PP failed in the first episode because I hated the art style of the female characters, which don't match the male characters. It's the mismatch that is the problem.)


and I can agree that Urobochi sacrificed some of Makishima's potential 'i don't know what' as an antagonist by demonstrating his ability to be above the established system through inexplicable specialness rather than a deft manipulation of established loopholes. Instead of demonstrating that he is bound by the same rules as everyone else, but he's just much better at working within them than everyone else we've been shown that he is blessed with some sort of elevated ability which makes him effortlessly superior to the protagonists.
Far more deftly said than I could ever convey.

[Xelbair]

Theory:
Sybil system upgrades itself. It uses the values and moral system of few people connected to a some kind of machine.
Makishima and Akane are next candidates for an 'upgrade'(clear psycho-pass, always. Akane might be the only candidate). Therefore it pitted them against each other, Akane was guided to Bureau so she would have 100% chance to confront Makishima.
Take note that current shitstorm started after Akane joined - one of enforcers confirmed(Kogami i think) that it is really bad only recently.

[Kraco]

Take note that current shitstorm started after Akane joined - one of enforcers confirmed(Kogami i think) that it is really bad only recently.

That's not true at all. Makishima was manipulating latent killers way back, when that colleague of Kogami was investigating it and got killed, turning Kogami into an enforcer. Akane was likely in the uni back then, learning how to become the kind of textbook anti-detective Gino loves. We have no idea whatsoever how far and wide Makishima has been practicing his foul art, because logic dictates we only know the tip of the iceberg. The shitstorm has been going on all the time, and it was nothing but a coincidence the cops now happened to stumble upon it, although their progress was greatly aided by Akane's efforts to encourage Kogami instead of hindering his every move like Gino likes to do.

[Ryllharu]

I'll be honest, I'm hoping the next episode gives us a good look at the "therapy" that trauma victims are meant to go to.

That will be quite interesting, if they give us a good look at it. I can't imagine it is merely something as simple as talking to a few psychologists while laying on a couch.

[fireheart]

I don't remember 100% on this but didn't the guy that killed his coworkers in the factory have a clearer hue after he killed one of them than before? If nothing else that episode showed that violence towards others can lead to a clearer hue since the coworkers that bullied him didn't get a cloudier hue rather it kept them from getting cloudy. In that perspective the whole thing with Makishima isn't newly introduced to the series, just on a different scale compared to before. Though I'm more with Kraco on that Makishima isn't the interesting part so it's not a big loss for me.

[Buffalobiian]

I don't remember 100% on this but didn't the guy that killed his coworkers in the factory have a clearer hue after he killed one of them than before? If nothing else that episode showed that violence towards others can lead to a clearer hue since the coworkers that bullied him didn't get a cloudier hue rather it kept them from getting cloudy. In that perspective the whole thing with Makishima isn't newly introduced to the series, just on a different scale compared to before. Though I'm more with Kraco on that Makishima isn't the interesting part so it's not a big loss for me.

Your Hue is like your stress level. It's possible for it to become less cloudy after you kill someone, but your Crime Coefficient is a different thing. That's why the gun still opened fire on him when they finally managed to relay Sybil's signal underground with a drone.

Makishima's Coefficient remained low the entire episode.

[fireheart]

Your Hue is like your stress level. It's possible for it to become less cloudy after you kill someone, but your Crime Coefficient is a different thing. That's why the gun still opened fire on him when they finally managed to relay Sybil's signal underground with a drone.

Makishima's Coefficient remained low the entire episode.

I'm pretty sure the guy was a lot more stressed when he was trying to kill Kogami than during the regularly scheduled scans, or rather his hue probably got cloudier as he was being cornered mentally and was about to be found out which could have played a part in why the dominator would fire on him.

The dominator reads the Psycho-Pass of the people you aim it at and analyses it with Crime Coefficient and job aptitude from what I gathered in episode 3. But if it only calculated based on the Crime Coefficient then there's no reason why they need to make an assessment of the person from the beginning. Hence to me the hue is a representation of your Psycho-Pass and depending on how clear/cloudy it is combined with other factors which Sibyl uses to make an assessment.
For example the girl in the first episode, her Crime Coefficient went up high enough for Sibyl to deem her unneeded. And the criminal told her that her hue was getting cloudier and looked like his which probably drove her stress up even more. Then subsequently when she seemed to have calmed down and relaxed her Crime Coefficient went down. While they aren't the same, they are related to each other.

[Xelbair]

In that episode - the one with robot factory - they said that Hue assesment was just a brief look at someone's Crime Coefficient. Getting crime coefficient requires direct connection to Sybil, and queues are damn long for that - but dominators are privileged - so they are using Hue as a cheap and fast method(but not as accurate).

[Buffalobiian]

The dominator reads the Psycho-Pass of the people you aim it at and analyses it with Crime Coefficient and job aptitude from what I gathered in episode 3. But if it only calculated based on the Crime Coefficient then there's no reason why they need to make an assessment of the person from the beginning. Hence to me the hue is a representation of your Psycho-Pass and depending on how clear/cloudy it is combined with other factors which Sibyl uses to make an assessment.

Crime Coeffficient = (Hue + other shit)

I'm agreeing that Hue is related to your crime coefficient, but only that.

Just because that murderer's Hue went down after killing someone doesn't mean their Crime Coefficient goes down in accordance.

The reason a Sybil scan wasn't simple in that factory was because the facility was deliberately built to isolate off all electromagnetic signals, and the management implemented the Hue assessment as a proxy for it.

[fireheart]

Crime Coeffficient = (Hue + other shit)

I'm agreeing that Hue is related to your crime coefficient, but only that.

Just because that murderer's Hue went down after killing someone doesn't mean their Crime Coefficient goes down in accordance.

The reason a Sybil scan wasn't simple in that factory was because the facility was deliberately built to isolate off all electromagnetic signals, and the management implemented the Hue assessment as a proxy for it.

The only reason I brought the factory guy and his coworkers up was to illustrate that violence can make your Hue clearer, the circumstances around the facility doesn't really matter that much.

The other part of the argument is the girl in the first episode, her Crime Coefficient went down once she calmed down/got a clearer Hue, there's no reason to believe that a clear white Hue doesn't automatically lower your Crime Coefficient to almost nothing. She was going to get executed but didn't because of nothing else than the fact that she calmed down, it shows how big of a difference ones Hue can make.

[neflight86]

Is it possible that his CC didn't rise because he truly did not see/feel any abnormality from his decision and willingness to kill that girl?

I suggest this (however loosely) based on motive as displayed throughout the series: The hunter killed for fun and to keep his mind young. The 'artist' was bored and wanted to create art reminicent of her father's, if I recall correctly. One killed for stress relief, delusional grandeur of glorified memes and so on. Makishima took life on a complete whim. I'm willing to believe that he truly didn't care if Akane picked up the double-barrel and blew him away (though he likely doubted it). All of the other latents killed in private, or around people that would keep quiet; I could argue not because they wanted to avoid problems with the law (solely), but because deep down, intrinsically, they knew that what they were doing was wrong. And that is what, from my understanding, makes crime co-efficient rise: the desire to do wrong and the awareness to acknowledge that it is wrong. If Makishima views human life (maybe even his own) as insignificant on the level we do when swatting a fly - as a reflexively disposable thing - it is not as much of a stretch that this (series of events) is his more sophisticated version of 'a six-pack and a bug zapper on Friday night'.

With that flimsy logic, I would conclude that Makishima is possibly neither insane nor broken, but... "incomplete". The nebulous feedback loop of human biometrics that Sibyl uses to assign hues and coefficients does not register this man as would be expected. I don't buy his spiel about Sibyl seeing/uncovering the soul, though. Just because he says it doesn't make it true.

The software for Sybil was created and administered by imperfect man, or by other software created, at some point, by imperfect man.

I know, I know... Suddenly, everybody's a blogger...

[Buffalobiian]

Is it possible that his CC didn't rise because he truly did not see/feel any abnormality from his decision and willingness to kill that girl?

I suggest this (however loosely) based on motive as displayed throughout the series: The hunter killed for fun and to keep his mind young. The 'artist' was bored and wanted to create art reminicent of her father's, if I recall correctly. One killed for stress relief, delusional grandeur of glorified memes and so on. Makishima took life on a complete whim. I'm willing to believe that he truly didn't care if Akane picked up the double-barrel and blew him away (though he likely doubted it). All of the other latents killed in private, or around people that would keep quiet; I could argue not because they wanted to avoid problems with the law (solely), but because deep down, intrinsically, they knew that what they were doing was wrong. And that is what, from my understanding, makes crime co-efficient rise: the desire to do wrong and the awareness to acknowledge that it is wrong. If Makishima views human life (maybe even his own) as insignificant on the level we do when swatting a fly - as a reflexively disposable thing - it is not as much of a stretch that this (series of events) is his more sophisticated version of 'a six-pack and a bug zapper on Friday night'.

With that flimsy logic, I would conclude that Makishima is possibly neither insane nor broken, but... "incomplete". The nebulous feedback loop of human biometrics that Sibyl uses to assign hues and coefficients does not register this man as would be expected. I don't buy his spiel about Sibyl seeing/uncovering the soul, though. Just because he says it doesn't make it true.


When I watched the episode I initially thought along the same lines as you as well, but then I agreed with Shinta more when he mentioned this:


Indeed, Makshima did say that the Sybil system did see through the soul. Most psychopaths don't feel bad or guilty about things they have done, and if that is enough to have a clean pass, then the Sybil system would not have been adopted in the first place.

[Kraco]

Yeah. Considering people are normally subjected to the norms of the society throughout their lives, even if they did nothing to acknowledge those norms, the Sybil system should still be able to pick people who know they are breaking a law even if they felt nothing at all doing it. It would be far too imperfect otherwise.

[Inazuma]

When is the next episode by the way ? Can't find the date.

[Buffalobiian]

When is the next episode by the way ?

Tomorrow.

edit: depending on your timezone, might be the day after. Anyway, something like another 36hrs?

[Kraco]

Episode 12 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=391579)





- -- - -- - -- - -




I have to say that although I'm generally speaking no fan of flashbacks, I especially hate them when they appear right when I was expecting a lot from the beginning of the episode. Like right now in this show. I can't imagine how things will proceed with Akane, so I was really looking forward to this episode. And instead we jumped back three years to a story about a character that had no role in this arc that was so traumatic for Akane... Ok, maybe Yayoi has as well tried to pull the trigger of a dominator that wouldn't give a shit, but the situation couldn't have been more different. The only relevant thing about this episode, if you allow the scale of relevance to be a kilometer long, would be to underline further how shitty the Sibyl system is for free will, democracy, civil liberties, etc.

[Archangel]

I agree, while this episode made Yayoi a whole lot more interesting the timing was just bad. I mean for all we know Akane might be in one of these rehabilitation establishments right now after what happened to her and that's what i really want to see.

Maybe this was necessary since the green haired girl will be involved in the following line of plot but i still feel they should have shown us the aftermath of the previous episode first.

[Buffalobiian]

I have no complaints with the timing. Thanks to the break, I had already dropped a lot of the tension from the previous episode (I didn't even recall its contents when I played this ep).

Yayoi's pretty stacked, more than the suit lets on.

[Ryllharu]

I think this episode was really important to put here in the story. As much as I want to know what is going on with Akane, I feel it was very important to show the latent criminal side to it, exactly because Akane will be in that much of a crisis. But what we saw was how something entirely mundane and innocent can put someone into rehabilitation. Her only "crime" was hanging out with an unauthorized musician. This could mean something very interesting for Akane. I suspect what we will actually see is her in intensive therapy (which she will ultimately complete successfully), completing the puzzle of how the framework of society functions with regards to pyscho passes and hues. What we got in this episode is the alternative.

Secondly, we really knew jack shit about Kunizuka. It also gave us a good view of society outside the bureaucracy and at the fringes.

We sort of knew she was into music, but not that she had actually been part of an authorized band (or that there even was such a thing. She put everything just into the pure joy of playing, and the denial of it made her worse in the rehabilitation center. It was interesting to see that the clinic staff was deliberately refusing her the one thing that probably would have actually purified her hue. She really liked just playing, it was her Sybil-destined occupation, and they were keeping it from her, believing it would make her worse. The system is clearly designed not to allow those who pass the threshold to return to society, especially not in any way resembling the way they went in.

Her disillusion at Rina's admission that it wasn't ever about the music (which Kunizuka loved), but it being about "the message", was a good showcase of Kunizuka's true character.

What I'm certain of, is that we will be seeing the anarchist Rina again. They may have started off with Molotovs, but after the close call with Kunizuka, she probably opted to be much more cautious instead. Finding out that someone she thought was a soulmate becoming a dog to the system probably made her much more wary.

[Kraco]

She put everything just into the pure joy of playing, and the denial of it made her worse in the rehabilitation center. It was interesting to see that the clinic staff was deliberately refusing her the one thing that probably would have actually purified her hue. She really liked just playing, it was her Sybil-destined occupation, and they were keeping it from her, believing it would make her worse. The system is clearly designed not to allow those who pass the threshold to return to society, especially not in any way resembling the way they went in.

That wasn't very realistic, though. People locked in that facility can't be made to pay their unwilling stay, and thus it's a burden on the taxpayers. With clearly redeemable cases, like Yayoi's, they should actually try to help her get out. Even if democracy has degraded, one thing will always remain: the budget, which ultimately decides everything. If the facility can for sheer sadistic joy lenghten Yayoi's stay despite so easy solutions existing, they must have a bloated budget, which makes little sense. Not to mention the people working at that facitility must have clouded hues themselves considering they are willfully hurting people.

[Ryllharu]

Unless...just like Makishima, they delude themselves into thinking they are only doing good and necessary deeds. They feel they are doing the righteous thing, and that denying her the simple joy of playing to the point of her losing interest in it entirely will make her better. Voilà, pure white hue.

As for the budget, they do keep people indefinitely for silly reasons. Look at Kagari. He never did anything wrong. They just tossed him in there from the start. Kunizuka didn't act either, she was probably reported by her bandmate. Kougami is the only one of the Enforcers who actually snapped about something. Masaoka seems to have just drifted into it.

Budget obviously isn't an issue, or is a creative assumption taken to get the premise and message across. If I did have to justify where the money was coming from, it wouldn't be much of a leap to say that the public safety, scanning (Sybil itself and the hue readers), and rehabilitation portions of government are the most well funded organizations by several orders of magnitude. It's the cornerstone of their civilization.

[Buffalobiian]

Budget obviously isn't an issue, or is a creative assumption taken to get the premise and message across. If I did have to justify where the money was coming from, it wouldn't be much of a leap to say that the public safety, scanning (Sybil itself and the hue readers), and rehabilitation portions of government are the most well funded organizations by several orders of magnitude. It's the cornerstone of their civilization.

I'd say that the reduction in crime rate justified everything Sybil is doing right now (in regards to both ethics and economics). You could say that corruption is also gone from the management sectors of society. Who knows how much money goes back to the masses for that.

[Kraco]

But no matter how you look at it, Yayoi's case must have been borderline and her hue close enough to decent for them to give her the (false, this episode claimed) hope that she might get out any day. And in fact based on her hue alone she might have walked out had they allowed her to play under the instruction and influence of an approved musician (music therapist). There's something much worse than simple corruption inside the system when it denies rehabilitation and instead keeps people indefinitely locked in. Unless that society has no freedom of press, it also wouldn't fly overly long with the people. There would lie a general horror within the population if everybody knew they could be suddenly snatched from the streets to a rehabilitation center where in fact no rehabilitating whatsoever was being performed and it's a practical life sentence in prison.

Nobody would allow such a system to continue, not even the owners of the industry supplying all the equipment for Sybil, for they wouldn't be any more safe themselves.

[Buffalobiian]

The announcement did say "work on purifying your Hue", so I'm guessing there's some form of activity being prescribed - even if the success rate is deemed low. Given the way Kogami talked about it it didn't seem impossible. Personally I'd say something like <15% would be the figure. The rape victim from episode one successfully got her CC low, but I believe that was just some PTSD-type of case if we're to believe what Kogami said here.

Once seen, you can not unsee - or so the saying goes.

As for the free press, I don't know. Journalists probably enjoy as much freedom as musicians do, if not less.

[Ryllharu]

[Commie] Psycho Pass - 13 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=394069)





---------------



Well...that was actually surprisingly disappointing.

All the twists were lame, poor writing:
- Oh! Masaoka is Ginoza's father! <-- Pretty obvious the moment they stood on the balcony together. It was either an enforcer (immediately meaning Masaoka) or someone still in the prison with the rest of the complete freaks, the lifers.
- The old lady is probably Sibyl. How shocking! <-- Except not really, considering her relationship and trust in Ginoza, the Inspector with perfect faith in Sibyl. [End of the ED, in case you missed it.]

I might be intrigued if it turns out the reason that Akane's hue and crime coefficient recovers so fast because she is exactly the same as the other two, one of the 1 in 2 million who can't properly be read. She just happens to be on the other side of the fence. I don't really buy Masaoka's reasoning. Akane does question the world around her. She's not happy Kougami gets branded a psychopath, heck, she doesn't think most of the Enforcers deserve to be imprisoned there. She doesn't accept everything just as she sees it. That was a load of garbage.

But the real thing that made this episode disappointing is the old lady flat out explained the whole issue with Shougo, because the they already knew about the other guy. They ruined the entire mystery around it in a five minute conversation.

Plus the animation was a bit off this episode.

[Kraco]

But the real thing that made this episode disappointing is the old lady flat out explained the whole issue with Shougo, because the they already knew about the other guy. They ruined the entire mystery around it in a five minute conversation.

It made sense she was explaining it to Gino in such detail - because Gino doesn't like to make guesses so he needs everything explained, but it hardly needed to be explained to the audience.

I'm no sadist, but like I said already after the previous episode, I was kind of looking forward to seeing Akane struggle with the loss. I can only presume they are so striven to make Akane a perfect psycho-pass recoverer that they couldn't show anything more than a few tears in a flashback. Kogami looked worse off in this episode than Akane...

I hope this will get back on its feet in the future.

[Archangel]

- Oh! Masaoka is Ginoza's father! <-- Pretty obvious the moment they stood on the balcony together. It was either an enforcer (immediately meaning Masaoka) or someone still in the prison with the rest of the complete freaks, the lifers.
- The old lady is probably Sibyl. How shocking! <-- Except not really, considering her relationship and trust in Ginoza, the Inspector with perfect faith in Sibyl. [End of the ED, in case you missed it.]
It's been obvious for a while now. And i don't think she's Sybil, she does seem to have a personal relationship with Shougo though. They may be related.

I'm happy with this aftermath, it's been implied from the get go that there's something strange about Akane's psycho pass and how untainted it is by everything else. But it doesn't seem to be the same as Shougo either, his actually became more clear the more violent he became.

I agree the animation felt off, too many shitty frames in between the good ones.

[Inazuma]

I liked this episode. Hate away but I'm in this boat for the whole show not for the individual value of it's parts.

The old lady, needed to explain something don't forget that we are at Gotwoot anime scholars with thousands of hours of plot understanding and visual forensic to our mileage. The old lady sure did explain things but only because the average viewer can only follow a plot as complex as Mario's or Naruto's - also the old lady has the voice of Integra in Hellsing which pretty much makes her the Morgan Freeman of Japan.

Now, I'ld only focus on one aspect. Akane's Pass is pretty much perfect if not bugged like Makishima's so I kinda think she's going to end up a system error like the two before her. Wouldn't it be satisfying for y'all to see Akane as asymptomatic like the bad guys ?

[Buffalobiian]

I might be intrigued if it turns out the reason that Akane's hue and crime coefficient recovers so fast because she is exactly the same as the other two, one of the 1 in 2 million who can't properly be read

I've always thought she was an asymptomatic ever since they commented that her psycho-pass is always surprisingly clear. I don't expect to he abuse that and go vigilante on the other asymptomatic who can't be judged by Sybil, but that would be cool.

As for the lady explaining shit, it makes complete sense for her to do so. Every young person there has grown up believing Sybil to be completely right. You can't skimp on the details if you're going to tell them that when the system fails (and it does sometimes), human judgement comes into play.

I remember a quote from somewhere that said:

"What goes around, comes around - whether that's true or not doesn't matter. What does matter is that people believe it's true."


But it doesn't seem to be the same as Shougo either, his actually became more clear the more violent he became.

I have reservations regarding that interpretation. Shougo's CC went down with each measurement, which coincided with his increasing violence - but I do not think it's necessarily causal. Shougo even said that no matter what he did, his Psycho-pass was always pure white. Based off that, my question would be "What made his PP rise in the first place?". My alternative hypothesis is that his CC was normalising to zero, rather than being driven down to zero via violence.

PS: I didn't see the Masaoka twist coming. I thought that was cool.

[Ryllharu]

As for the lady explaining shit, it makes complete sense for her to do so. Every young person there has grown up believing Sybil to be completely right. You can't skimp on the details if you're going to tell them that when the system fails (and it does sometimes), human judgement comes into play.The problem is that she explained the entire scenario, immediately after it happened, leaving no room to slowly dole it out over several episodes, continuing the mystery and keeping viewers engaged. What we got instead was a cheap excuse. I'm not even going to get into the faults behind, "yeah...sometimes the system just doesn't work," plot point in lieu of a well developed reason that meshes with the setting/premise.

It felt more like, "The viewers didn't understand it, might as well explain it..." but given the long production lead times that animation entails, it is far more likely that the writer just had no clue how to reveal it slowly or with any kind of build up. More like they didn't even try. Flat out exposition is more of an intro or post-climax/conclusion sort of thing. When it is thrown into the middle of mystery/procedural story like this, it conveys weakness on a part of the author's ability.

Given that the prominence of the writer is a large part of the hype behind this series, Urobuchi Gen (Fate/Zero and Nitro+ games) fails pretty hard here.

[Inazuma]

It felt more like, "The viewers didn't understand it, might as well explain it..." but given the long production lead times that animation entails, it is far more likely that the writer just had no clue how to reveal it slowly or with any kind of build up. More like they didn't even try. Flat out exposition is more of an intro or post-climax/conclusion sort of thing. When it is thrown into the middle of mystery/procedural story like this, it conveys weakness on a part of the author's ability.


It's a Production IG thing, I would give it the benefit of the doubt just a bit longer before pointing out weaknesses. That studio deserves that in my eyes.

[Ryllharu]

It's a Production IG thing, I would give it the benefit of the doubt just a bit longer before pointing out weaknesses. That studio deserves that in my eyes.
No one is privileged to be above criticism. If they can recover, great, if not, they deserved harsh words.

And the quality and ability of the studio doesn't have a lot to do with the writer, unless they are in-house. Urobuchi Gen (the writer) isn't. The director has a fair amount of sway, but failings in the story ultimately fall on the writers. Even then, considering the two directors have either not directed anime before (chief director) or worked on Blood-C (director)...

I think my criticism is very well placed.

[neflight86]

I don't mean to champion the show as perfect (it's not), but I felt that the explanation was warranted and proper. I never saw this show as a mystery/procedural but maybe as a thriller/character piece. I'm not sure how you could take an established fact (Sibyl doesn't work right on everyone) and stretch that out or tease about it in any meaningful way now that it has been slapped across the viewer's faces. Instead of teasing about a bag who's cat has long vacated, it seems best for the story to set itself up for the next step of the investigative process.

[Yukimura]

I might get on board with Ryll if and only if the show fails to produce any interesting plot points and situations now that it has set aside the potential of exploring the 'what's wrong with Sybil' line of investigation. I don't see following that particular story as necessary to the shows overall success but I do think it could have been quite sufficient if handled well. If that story is what one was hoping for out of the show to tackle then I can see why they would be disappointed in this eps content. However, until the whole show is done I don't think we'll have a full idea of what the overall points being made are or what their merits might be. I've seen enough to give the show the benefit of the doubt for that it will be worth the ride, but only time will tell.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 14 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=396702)

[Kraco]

Realistically speaking, in a situation like the woman getting beaten to death in the middle of a busy street, the government or Sibyl manufacturer would likely need to pay millions to the family of the victim to silence them. They can't anymore gag it easily with so many witnesses and uploaded videos if the relatives took it to the authorities, or if that failed, to the media. If they were paid silent, then it could theoretically be brushed aside as a stunt or something.

I hope that will be somehow addressed in the following eps, unless it becomes a moot point with Makishima orchestrating multiple such incidences all over the place and the whole country naturally losing faith in Sybil. Should that happen, we ought to see the military patrolling the streets, since the cops are largely no good, and I reckon too few.

[Inazuma]

" I recommend you receive mental care. "

Oh that cracked me up.

[Archangel]

At least now we know what the deal was with the helmet guy from the first episode, though his looked more advanced.

Don't future cops even have the right to use regular guns anymore? Couldn't they at least bring some knives or something?

[Kraco]

Don't future cops even have the right to use regular guns anymore? Couldn't they at least bring some knives or something?

They do possess stun batons that require no other situation than an inspector's request. We saw Akane being able to give Kogami one in the beginning of the hunter arc. However, I have a feeling only a portion of the cops would be any good with one, only the likes of Kogami who train themselves. But then again, I doubt most criminals would be good fighters either.

[Buffalobiian]

Don't future cops even have the right to use regular guns anymore? Couldn't they at least bring some knives or something?

Future cops are latent criminals. The only reason they're let out is because they can be shot in the back at any time. You don't give someone like that a gun that shoots bullets.

Kraco: I'm expecting people to riot just as Makishima plans it to. These public demonstrations are supposed to do that.

[Kraco]

Kraco: I'm expecting people to riot just as Makishima plans it to. These public demonstrations are supposed to do that.

As they should! The riots should be nation-wide as well, since the situation is the same everywhere and the country is so well networked that what one knows, everybody will soon know. I very much doubt there are enough police officers to do anything about riots, and the robots used be the police don't look worth much in anything but advicing people and looking stupid. They'll have to bring in the army if they want to do something about violent crowds.

[Buffalobiian]

Having the intention of rioting against society should raise your CC enough to be tazed, no?

If that was the case, robots won't be useless. If the masks to circulated around it would be troublesome. Then we also have to deal with whatever it is that Makishima stole in that truck.

[Kraco]

Having the intention of rioting against society should raise your CC enough to be tazed, no?

If that was the case, robots won't be useless.

Hmm... The robots can taze people?

[Inazuma]

Hmm... The robots can taze people?

I don't remember they can

[Buffalobiian]

I don't remember they can

They can't? Wtf are the drones for then?!

[Archangel]

Future cops are latent criminals. The only reason they're let out is because they can be shot in the back at any time. You don't give someone like that a gun that shoots bullets.

Kraco: I'm expecting people to riot just as Makishima plans it to. These public demonstrations are supposed to do that.
I didn't mean the enforcers, i meant the actual cops like Akame and Gin.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 15 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=399190)

[Archangel]

Uroboshi seriously has no faith in humanity, it's like we're all just dynamite waiting for someone to light up the fuse.

[Kraco]

I don't think it'd be stretch to have plenty of extremely stressed people to explode in a world like that.

What I found unbelievable is that there's apparently no military, just some bots guarding the borders. Is it because they couldn't find a way to exclude soldiers from the Psycho-Pass mess, and thus they all would have been doomed social outcasts?

[Archangel]

But according to the system they weren't stressed at all.

Well this is a supposed utopia, maybe they found a better method than stacking weaponry and cultivating fear of reprisal as a means for peace.

[Kraco]

Well this is a supposed utopia, maybe they found a better method than stacking weaponry and cultivating fear of reprisal as a means for peace.

No offense, but I think your values are strange if you think that's a utopia. It's an Orwellian dystopia, just masterfully insidious. Naturally they can't have the bulk of the population labeled unfit for society, so the measurement levels were such that as long as people took extreme care and possibly participated in counseling and probably drug use, they could live what they might have considered happily, assuming they had whatever they needed for a wholesome life under those circumstances. But nevertheless every day they had to worry about their psycho-pass.

Still, we are talking about humans here, and as long as there are two humans left in the world, there will be no end to reasons to go to war.

Like I said in my previous post, the only reason for not having soldiers is the difficulty of having them under the same rules as the rest of the people. So, they would either need to keep the soldiers out of the society entirely or rely on robots and hope the enemy doesn't use EMP or have hackers...

[Archangel]

I said supposed utopia.

[Kraco]

I said supposed utopia.

Who supposed? In the show none of the main characters certainly do, not even Gino, despite being such a sucker. It's just something they are stuck with. Something that was likely gradually introduced, that looked good on paper and in ads. A system that would help people find their strengths and would spot criminals on the streets before they even had a chance to hurt anybody. But I bet the people weren't told they would need to live for the rest of their lives as slaves to the system, and if anything, like a divorce or losing a job, despressed them enough, they would be picked from the streets, no questions asked, and taken to some nazi facility. Nah, it's not a utopia, but perhaps admitting it's not a utopia hurts one's psycho-pass so much that that none speaks the truth, or even dares to stop to think about it.

This show could have been quite a bit more interesting if Makishima hadn't been helping murderous lunatics and other scumbags. If he was just fighting the system, labeled a terrorist naturally, but in his own mind a freedom fighter. But I guess helping the psychopaths went hand in hand with his mental state immune to the scanning by Sybil.

[Buffalobiian]

So hold on..

1) citizens bashing the shit out of people who they believe are criminals (regardless of whether they are or aren't) won't raise the cirizen's own psycho-pass to criminal levels? That seems a little broken to me. Going after criminals isn't exactly self-defence.

The psychotic reaction by those who eventually "snapped" seemed much worse than the girl who was traumatised from rape in Episode 01.

[Xelbair]

Not entirely Orwellian - Huxley's Brave New World got into the mix too.

In this ep we can see few interesting things:
1) Effect on anonymity on general public
2) Knowing the full future is equal to death, at least to Makishima and his companion(God Emperor of Dune)

I haven't read Phillip K. Dick's novels so i can't comment on that, but Gibson comment seemed forced - just to score extra points from cyberpunk crowd - 'not wild enough' is a very, VERY big understatement if you want to compare this world to Sprawl Trilogy one or Bridge Trilogy one.

[Archangel]

Episode 16:

Makishima being some sort of martial arts master along with everything else feels a little forced but it's not a deal breaker, especially when the ending turned out so interesting.

[Inazuma]

Wait, what, did someone just go full HAL 9000 x Terminator on us ?

[Yukimura]

SO MUCH TEASE! What's in the super secret bunker?! We simply must know. Also boo at Akane for not killing Makishima, even though there was no chance she would have done it I would have liked to see where the story might have gone if she had. Something else would have to have taken the place of the final conflict, perhaps her wrestling with her decision or dealing with the ripple effects of Makishima's existence on the country, or something.

[Ryllharu]

Called it weeks earlier that the old lady was actually Sybil herself/itself (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/21195-Psycho-Pass?p=524895&viewfull=1#post524895). She overrode the system to kill Kagari.

The snake-dude seemed to indicate that it was such a huge scandal if they simply published it. If I had to guess, I'd say the core of Sibyl is a cluster of human brains networked. 200+ disembodied brains. That must be how the "societal threshold" for appropriate behavior is determined. An individual's behavior gets passed through the system (in queue normally then updated when there is a chance, or priority through a dominator), and they vote, the result is the Crime Coefficient.

What I didn't get was why her clothes and skin melted off in the first place. Was snake-dude's blood acidic?


Loved the shot of Akane holding the helmet high to give Makishima a deathblow. Knew it wouldn't happen, but it was a beautiful key frame.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 16 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=401709)

-------------------------------------






The Chief forced the Dominator into Lethal mode, didn't she? I was trying to interpret between that and the fact that her damaged self meant Sybil was unstable. Though if she was a self-contained Sybil system, what's the big deal about the chamber then? Were they just full of her clones/backup-bodies?

edit: nvm, ryll posted.



What I didn't get was why her clothes and skin melted off in the first place. Was snake-dude's blood acidic?

It's from whatever weapon Hacker fired at her. It didn't seem like it was their normal nail guns.



Loved the shot of Akane holding the helmet high to give Makishima a deathblow. Knew it wouldn't happen, but it was a beautiful key frame.

My favourite shot was when she was stopping her bleeding while telling Kogami to go on ahead. Bad-ass determination right there.

[Inazuma]

Called it weeks earlier that the old lady was actually Sybil herself/itself (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/21195-Psycho-Pass?p=524895&viewfull=1#post524895). She overrode the system to kill Kagari.


Thats the thing, according to the configuration of the dominator when shooting Kagari, it was not the same as lethal eliminator. The shape of the gun was different.

(Don't ask ... this gun is one of my favorite thing on earth since Nutella)

[Buffalobiian]

Thats the thing, according to the configuration of the dominator when shooting Kagari, it was not the same as lethal eliminator. The shape of the gun was different.

(Don't ask ... this gun is one of my favorite thing on earth since Nutella)

No, I noticed it as well. This shape had a rounded dorsal surface. The most immediate thing I can compare it to would be a fish, or the plasma rifles from Halo. I looked up pictures of it afterwards for confirmation, but I couldn't really find exact front/top/side pics to make up my mind regarding it.

[Ryllharu]

I thought that was because the Dominator was "fighting" to stay in non-lethal mode. That odd configuration was what she managed to warp it into as a result of overriding the reading, and forcing it to lethal mode.

Or was that partway to the disintegrator mode for non-living things?

[Inazuma]

No, I noticed it as well. This shape had a rounded dorsal surface. The most immediate thing I can compare it to would be a fish, or the plasma rifles from Halo. I looked up pictures of it afterwards for confirmation, but I couldn't really find exact front/top/side pics to make up my mind regarding it.

Front end of the gun, Lethal mode has floating protuberances under the barrel, and no floating anything over the the user's hand which was clearly the case here. I think this is either a unknown mode or the distingrator used previously.

[shinta|hikari]

Makishima has always been a martial arts master. He killed a couple of guys using his skills a few episodes before.

What happens now that Makishima has been captured? That interests me the most.

[Archangel]

Makishima has always been a martial arts master. He killed a couple of guys using his skills a few episodes before.

What happens now that Makishima has been captured? That interests me the most.
He kicked a couple of nobody's asses, nothing compared to the schooling he just gave a veteran detective.

He'll probably be taken away by the director, she seemed interested in him.

[Buffalobiian]

Front end of the gun, Lethal mode has floating protuberances under the barrel, and no floating anything over the the user's hand which was clearly the case here. I think this is either a unknown mode or the distingrator used previously.

I just tried a few screenshots from the underground-facility episode, but google found this and it's even better:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3/dvirtqx.png

Plays right into the whole justice/might thing. That was pretty nice.

[Xelbair]

[15:27] <%Xelbair> and i still think that the reason the Chief wanted to capture Makishima was to integrate him to the system - so the system will be able to deal with makishima-like cases(not every case of perfect psychopass - but only the ones with similar way of thinking to makishima)
[16:29] <%Xelbair> system is probably a collection of criminal brains. it uses them as a negative example of good behavior.
[16:33] <%Xelbair> also there is possibility that sybil system is a faux.. but i doubt that

Too lazy to rephrase that so i'm quoting the irc.

[Kraco]

Won't the cops want to investigate the cellar of the building, since they know for a fact crimes happened and people disappeared in there? Although if it's up to to the boot licking Gino, I guess nothing will happen. Too bad he didn't die during this incident.

[Ryllharu]

Psycho Pass - 17 [Commie] (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=404125)



----------------


Lame.

Between myself and Xel, we predicted this episode pretty much verbatim. It's pretty disappointing that this series became so damn predictable.

Despite that, it's hard not to admire Makashima here. It was obvious he was going to do that, but he wasn't even the least bit tempted. Why be an official when you can play the game indeed.

[Kraco]

Makishima's work surely got easier with Sybil doing half of it for him. But since all the brains in jars are from aberrations, I guess it's not altogether strange they would behave so stupidly allowing Makishima an easy escape. He also managed to avenge Kagari's death on the side, which was a big bonus.

I was disappointed in Akane during this ep. She was totally passive and offered no insight or ideas, despite everything that happened.

[Xelbair]

We've predicted the true nature of Sybil system ages ago, but still i enjoyed this episode - probably because i really like Makishima's character.

[Inazuma]

This is so well executed for me that I don't care anymore about the plot. Psycho Pass is cool as it's core and I think predicting the next 7 episodes will prove that.

[Buffalobiian]

Question: Why do fucked up brains rule society so well? How does having an organic panel result in criminals like Makishima having low CC?

[Inazuma]

I think they are in the whole Brain Bio computer thingy and also pattern recognition.

Sybil must be comparing people's patterns to it's own registered set and when it is faced with one that is unknown it's crashes hence Makishima uncalculable PPass.

But I could be wrong, so shoot your interpretations away Gotwoot.

[einbreaker]

I think they are in the whole Brain Bio computer thingy and also pattern recognition.

Sybil must be comparing people's patterns to it's own registered set and when it is faced with one that is unknown it's crashes hence Makishima uncalculable PPass.

But I could be wrong, so shoot your interpretations away Gotwoot.

I think you make sense. People like Makishima are outliers and the system can't properly evaluate them until it has a similar case imbedded within the system. From that point on outliers like Makishima can be judged properly. the system works fully once again until it finds another outlier dissimilar to the brains it has on file.

But then again at the same time this episode made it seem as if the former criminals kept some form of their personality and consciousness making me wonder why wouldn't they pervert the sybil system from the inside. Even though it would have seemed out of character for Makishima to take up SYBILS offer if he did I feel that he would have been able to corrupt it given enough time.

[Buffalobiian]

But then again at the same time this episode made it seem as if the former criminals kept some form of their personality and consciousness making me wonder why wouldn't they pervert the sybil system from the inside.

Exactly.

Is it the case of some Sybil supercomputer using the brains as criminal samples, or is it the case of 200 "special" brains voting amongst each other to arrive at a CC, all while masquerading as a system known as Sybil? The episode strongly suggested the second idea, which makes me wonder if I'm missing a link here.

For example:

Are exceptional criminals being added something that rarely happens, as opposed to being the norm?

Do the criminals now suddenly like the feeling of being God, and don't want to break the world they rule over?

[Xelbair]

probably because there is a masterbrain or server that manages them. That's a wild guess
Also each brain independently can't do anything to hurt the system - it is a collective so it need at least majority agreement - and if thost brains are at least 40% similar to Makishima? no chance for that.

also - judging by the speech of Sybil system - they feel like Gods.
also - this system could just use their brains for processing power and as examples of criminals - while giving them outlet of Chief so they don't try to revolt.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 18 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=406403)

[Archangel]

This episode looked bad to the point of being hilarious.

I don't even want to discuss the content of the episode, we should spend the next week cracking jokes at how the budget went to shit on this one.

[Kraco]

These deviant brains of Sybil really have allowed their power to get to their head. Forcing the dominator to the lethal mode in front of the inspectors seemed more than careless. I suppose Gino isn't quite as hopeless as he has seemed for most of the show, but on the other hand his idea underestimated the chief far too much. Still, at least after this they can be more sure the chief shouldn't bother them that much, since they are untrustworthy. Assuming they will keep their jobs. Though seeing how absolutely undermanned they are, if anything bigger at all happens, kicking them all out could be risky. But since Sybil is made of lunatic brains, "risky" is hardly a word on the top of their minds.

Like I said earlier, Makishima is having it easier with Sybil doing such fine job undermining itself.

[Archangel]

Well Sybil is more than their boss, it's the actual system. It was just trying to ascertain how much of a faithful pawn Gido could be.

[Kraco]

Episode 19 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=4087029)





-- - - - - - - -







The episode revealed some interesting facts about Japan in this show. Facts that certainly explain a thing or two. Apparently the whole country is totally closed off, apart from some communications channels. No human or goods traffic, by the looks of it. That sufficiently explains why the people would continue to suffer the oppressive system and conversely the kind of conditions that would have allowed the system to develop. When they were talking about almost all of the food being from a single plant, I thought it a huge stretch, but then they told how the country is totally isolated and it made perfect sense. It would take an extremely delicate system to make Japan work with no outside trade yet still maintain the high looking material quality of life we have been seeing. And all that with a declining birth rate. Yeah, it's easy to see they need something like Sibyl to make sure everybody able to work is working and there no disruptive masses of unemployed or disgruntled people around. They sure need all those robots as well, of course.

Even though Makishima is an uncaring scumbag, I still hope he succeeds before he's killed. Nobody deserves to live in a giant prison like that.

[Buffalobiian]

Looks like even Sybil thinks Akane is peace-loving enough to support them after revealing everything to her.

It's pretty wild to think that Japan has the ability to feed its population with just the hyperoats (and all the resources required to sustain that growth), but it's not so unbelievable that I can't swallow it. With that perspective in mind, it's actually stranger that there'd be unutilised areas like the one the professor resides in, given that Japan must need everything that it can get.

[Inazuma]

I'll stop fussing about inconsistencies in a show when it satiates my hunger for entertainment.

Psycho Pass gets a fuss free pass because you have to admit that aside the crappy CGI and a plot with two competing villain with one obviously more badass that the other, that PPass is awesome. The ideas behind the show, the execution might not be IGP standard but it just flows so well ...

I've put this episode next to Robotics' on my playlist and all I got from MPC is smiley face.

[Yukimura]

Psycho Pass - 20 - [Commie] (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=411156)
Psycho Pass - 20 (720) - [HorribleSubs] (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=411116)

This episode basically summed up everyone's philosophy and reminded us of the three main affiliations in conflict with each other. Pro society with Sybil in Akane, pro society with or without Sybil in Kogami, and anti society with (and perhaps without) Sybil in Makishima.

In my judgement Akane probably has the best position overall, support the system for its benefits and accept the dirtiness that comes along with it. However I think society and Sybil need Kogami to kill Makishima more than they need Makishima plugged into the hive. Makishima is the opposite of everything Sybil stands for and I suspect even if he was plugged in his input would only ever serve to go against the grain of the system and get ignored at best, or pull it away from where it should otherwise be going at worst.

Another thing that occurred to me this ep is that Sybil is confined to Japan, so there's probably a whole outside world where people live free the way Makishima claims he want's them to. With that, his behavior comes across as even more despicable since it means his all his shenanigans are purely about him trying to force his viewpoint on everyone in Japan rather than leaving them to their dull lives and emigrating somewhere that is more suitable to him. When I thought Sybil was everywhere in the world I could at least give him credit for championing a more robust and hardy lifestyle for humanity as a whole but if it's just one little pocket of humanity that wants to live this way and isn't bothering anyone else I can't give him that and he just looks like a sociopathic jerkass who wants to make people miserable because he'd enjoy it more that way.

[Kraco]

However I think society and Sybil need Kogami to kill Makishima more than they need Makishima plugged into the hive. Makishima is the opposite of everything Sybil stands for and I suspect even if he was plugged in his input would only ever serve to go against the grain of the system and get ignored at best, or pull it away from where it should otherwise be going at worst.

I think Sybil becomes better at recognising aberrations with every abnormal brain added to the hive. So, even if they ignored Makishima's suggestions as such, Sybil might be able to judge a few more one in a million cases. Plus it would shield itself from terrorism better, since Makishima seems to excel at that.


Another thing that occurred to me this ep is that Sybil is confined to Japan, so there's probably a whole outside world where people live free the way Makishima claims he want's them to. With that, his behavior comes across as even more despicable since it means his all his shenanigans are purely about him trying to force his viewpoint on everyone in Japan rather than leaving them to their dull lives and emigrating somewhere that is more suitable to him. When I thought Sybil was everywhere in the world I could at least give him credit for championing a more robust and hardy lifestyle for humanity as a whole but if it's just one little pocket of humanity that wants to live this way and isn't bothering anyone else I can't give him that and he just looks like a sociopathic jerkass who wants to make people miserable because he'd enjoy it more that way.

Maybe he's just a true patriot, you know! Anyway, it seems like Makishima really believes in what he's doing, so he's not doing what he's doing to be a jerk and make people miserable. He's trying to save his countrymen, after his own fashion. Like they say: One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

[Xelbair]

We don't know if leaving the country is that easy. We know that Japan is going for isolation policy and for example might be shooting down any ships and planes near its coast.

[Buffalobiian]

Maybe he's just a true patriot, you know! Anyway, it seems like Makishima really believes in what he's doing, so he's not doing what he's doing to be a jerk and make people miserable. He's trying to save his countrymen, after his own fashion. Like they say: One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

He did suggest this in a previous conversation with the hacker (who was an immigrant), suggesting that Makishima did want to liberate Japan. Still, I'm not one for forcing views on other people. According to Makishima though, he surveyed a whole bunch of people and concluded that people actually DID want to be free of Sybil (at least, the sample that he toyed with anyway).

[Kraco]

He did suggest this in a previous conversation with the hacker (who was an immigrant), suggesting that Makishima did want to liberate Japan. Still, I'm not one for forcing views on other people. According to Makishima though, he surveyed a whole bunch of people and concluded that people actually DID want to be free of Sybil (at least, the sample that he toyed with anyway).

It seems to me, both politically and in business, that giving people what they seemingly want doesn't show particularly high statesman or businessman spirit. Looking back at the history, most notable figures have been those who followed their own path, ambition, and ideals, dragging everybody else along for the ride. Later people judged the person either a hero or a villain (or both, like I said earlier, quoting the old truth). Some existing states in a society can never be changed by following the whims of the masses, for good or for ill.

[Archangel]

Episode 22:

Shit's getting motherfucking realer than real! I wonder how many of them will be left alive before this is over. Gin will be at least, sporting a mechanical arm much like his pops.

I'm curious as to why Makishima didn't go for the power, was he thinking ahead and wanted to thin out the herd before restarting his plan?

[Inazuma]

This is not disappointing !

I hope things will keep on going like this for a couple more episode. I don't want the end to fall flat like Jormungand's

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 22 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=413322)


-------------------------------







Moral of story: Kick an explosive, Do not attempt to bend down, grab it, stand up, arch back, then throw.

If you require more accuracy, then at least bend down and drag your arm as you approach the bomb so you can under-arm it on contact in your direction of travel. Armchair-expert advice of course.

[Archangel]

Child is in imminent lethal danger, better calmly analyse the situation!

[Buffalobiian]

Child is in imminent lethal danger, better calmly analyse the situation!

Those with the right instincts would pull it off, but it's not a common trait.

If you don't have the instincts, you can develop the same response through habit (i.e. training), but I will agree that these futuristic police don't exactly train much anymore.

[shinta|hikari]

If he cared as little for his son as the son himself believed he did, he would have done exactly what you said. It was obvious that his personal feelings screwed his logic in that scenario.

[Archangel]

http://i.imgur.com/J1bLvrB.jpg

As for the actual episode, i wonder if the way they keep bringing up Akane's strangely low psycho pass means she's also someone of interest for the Sybil system.

[Kraco]

As for the actual episode, i wonder if the way they keep bringing up Akane's strangely low psycho pass means she's also someone of interest for the Sybil system.

She certainly is. She's far beyond a loyal dog like Gino. I very much doubt too many people have been shown the underground chamber. In the end it's not like the Sybil could solely rely on their own brains in jars. It also needs people outside of the facility. Most are tools but considering how close Makishima & the foreign hacker got, I guess the Sybil judged it also requires collaborators who support the Sybil willingly for their own reasons. Who knows, Akane might thus get to keep her brain inside her skull.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 22 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=415481)

[Archangel]

In the end my only complaint is the predictability of the plot in the end. No surprises or twists, it all pretty much unfolded how we all assumed it would.

[Inazuma]

It felt right to me, I wanted Akane to stop Makishima and save him but I did not expect him to be killed especially after Kogami getting the Dominator locked in paralyzer.

I love PP because it's so cold, that end begs for more and I couldn't be happier.

[Buffalobiian]

I would have liked something more than a "the world keeps going" ending for this show, but whatever.

[shinta|hikari]

This is what I expected, wanted, and got for the ending. Still, I want a sequel.

[Buffalobiian]

This is what I expected, wanted, and got for the ending. Still, I want a sequel.

Only if Akane turns evil-Sybil.

[Kraco]

It felt similar to watching the last episode of a (decent) slice of life show: Free of any passion, but not tasting bad either. They even made a special point of having the end reflect the beginning with the young n00b arriving straight to a crime scene, just like Akane did. Of course Akane has now seen more than most and by all means should be extremely jaded, but still continues the work. I guess that fits the final lesson of a society struggling to always develop itself, no matter how hard and slow the progress could be. Appropriately that actually goes for both Akane's idealistic vision of the future and the Sybil's strive to perfect itself and even get publicly accepted.

Considering who wrote this, I wasn't really expecting anything to go according to Akane's wishes. The only thing I was unsure of is whether Kogami would survive or not. I'm glad he did.

[Buffalobiian]

I will admit that I was hoping for some GITS game-changing finale.

Psycho-pass ceased to grow after Makishima revealed that he was an oddity in the system.

[Ryllharu]

This is what I expected, wanted, and got for the ending. Still, I want a sequel.

Considering who wrote this, I wasn't really expecting anything to go according to Akane's wishes. The only thing I was unsure of is whether Kogami would survive or not. I'm glad he did.

Please no. Urobuchi Gen is already overrated. This started out decent, and turned into garbage. Not in an abrupt way all at the end like a Gainax Ending, but there was a clear point where the series stopped getting better, and just slid further and further downward. It ended with a bland whimper.

They never should have made Makashima a direct participant.

[Yukimura]

I would agree that the first half of the show felt like it was building to something big and meaningful and the second half didn't pay off nearly as expected, but at the same time I can't say I didn't like what we did get and don't appreciate it. All in all I think it was a good show and worth the time spent watching and thinking about it.

After a lot of pondering and trying to look back on the show through the lens of the first episode as the final scene reminded me to do, I realized that the only characters that really grew or changed in the whole series were Akane and Ginoza. When I think about everything that happened in just the terms of those two I find I like the show overall a lot more. Makishima and Kogami were like avatars of different ideologies fighting it out the 'old' way and while their battle was intense and interesting ultimately it was a traditional example of two sides who want opposing things battling it out the traditional way of get him before he gets you. Where the goods of the series seem to be though is in seeing how Akane and Ginoza, as products of and proponents for the third option represented by Sybil, dealt with and were changed by interacting with the traditional bad guy role played out by Makishima and the traditional good guy role taken up by Kogami.

In the end Akane was not tempted into taking up one of the traditional sides and maintained her dedication to the third option despite much loss and angst. I'm not sure how to read Ginoza's shift but I'd like to believe that despite his crime coefficient going up he still believes in the ideals driving third option and is willing to help enforce them, but he's just become too aware now how ugly the world that the system is trying to cover up is to go back to just being another cog in the machine. Maybe he has the potential to become the another rogue like Kogami, but my hope is that he's become closer to the ideal Enforcer who can't be a part of the system proper but can still protect it from others who want to go against it.

And then in keeping Kogami alive and free I think they were throwing a bone to the notion that as long as the system isn't perfect and people like Makishima can pop up you'll need Kogami's out there as well to try and counter them.

[Kraco]

And then in keeping Kogami alive and free I think they were throwing a bone to the notion that as long as the system isn't perfect and people like Makishima can pop up you'll need Kogami's out there as well to try and counter them.

I'm not so sure about that. After all, the system has a need or at least can put to work the aberrations (like Makishima) if it can catch them alive, to perfect itself further. So a person like Kogami is in fact an enemy of the system. He's not really a relic of the past either because a field execution has never been the style of any proper justice system. I'd say he's a reminder of the imperfection of the system, but not a solution. A person like Akane (who actually has a working detective's brain) is the solution as long as the system continues to exist.

But then again, Kogami might have been just a one-hit-wonder, so maybe as long as the pray wouldn't be Makishima, he wouldn't actually try to be the prosecutor, the judge, and the executioner all in one, so you could still be correct.

[Buffalobiian]

A person like Akane (who actually has a working detective's brain) is the solution as long as the system continues to exist.

I think you rated her a bit too highly there. She performed well in this last case because she knows how Kogami thinks, not because she's that good at thinking like criminals per se. She'll still gets somewhere by constantly asking "what would Kogami think" whenever she hits a roadblock - but she'll only be able to mimic what she's learned from Kogami thus far. Kogami's a natural. She's trying to copy the natural.

[Kraco]

Hah. Let's not forget she has been working for the agency for how long? A few months at best? She's as green as one can be yet already was far better than Gino by simply asking herself "what would Kogami do"? The Sybil also gave her the perfect score, allowing great many positions in high places to choose from. She was too passive in many of the episodes, but I think that's only because she's so new and because there were people above her, so it's easy to fall into thinking someone will surely come up with a better solution than a newbie. However, this very last hunt for both Kogami and Makishima showed her true talent that also included fast thinking and quite a bit of courage and independence.

So, give her a couple of years, and she'll be a lot better than Kogami. Simply because Kogami was an enforcer and his hands were tied because of it. A lot of Kogami's drive also came from hunting Makishima. We have no idea how he's post-Makishima. Other than that he's reading classics...

[Munsu]

Began watching Psycho-Pass last night and really like it, up to episode 9 right now.

Without looking too much into it, seems like there's a movie and a secondary series in development... wonder what the plans for them are.

[Archangel]

Psycho Pass is pretty good if a bit predictable

[Buffalobiian]

Lately Urobuchi Gen tends to write good developments but falls flat on the finale, which leaves me with an aftertaste of slight disappointment.

(note: personal experience with the anime works of his I've seen - perhaps a wider sample including his VN works etc would grant a different view)

[Munsu]

And done watching, and really liked this one. Looking forward to the sequel/s.


Lately Urobuchi Gen tends to write good developments but falls flat on the finale, which leaves me with an aftertaste of slight disappointment.

(note: personal experience with the anime works of his I've seen - perhaps a wider sample including his VN works etc would grant a different view)

I think you've just described the entire entertainment industry, anime in particular.

[Munsu]

Any of you watching Psycho-Pass: Extended Edition? Just curious if it's worth watching or if it has anything new of substance.

[Kraco]

Any of you watching Psycho-Pass: Extended Edition? Just curious if it's worth watching or if it has anything new of substance.

No. If I recall correctly, it might have a few scenes added, but I didn't consider that worth rewatching the whole thing at this point. I rather decided to wait for the second season that's launching next month.

[Xelbair]

Supossedly it changes some small details, which will be very important in s2 - i'll go and marathon it.

Urobutcher fails at endings. always.
i know only two exceptions - one short equilibrium fanfic VN by him(which was very good) and fate zero.

[Munsu]

Supossedly it changes some small details, which will be very important in s2 - i'll go and marathon it.

Urobutcher fails at endings. always.
i know only two exceptions - one short equilibrium fanfic VN by him(which was very good) and fate zero.

Yeah, I read something to that regard, that there may be some small changes and that's the only thing that worries me in particularly if those changes will have a connection on events of season 2.

[Kraco]

S2 Episode 1 - HS (http://nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=607361)







- - - - - - --



A pretty good start with stuff happening immediately. Even if it felt like everything prior to the post-ED part was half made to depict how highly competent and insightful our little Akane-chan has become. Though I'm not being sarcastic; she truly showed how to work with the flawed Sybil system to make the right choices, not blindly following the ones the computer is giving. In addition to having her other instincts really sharp. Naturally we then got, post-ED, a scene of somebody putting the system to a worse use. This wouldn't be Psycho-Pass otherwise. I look forward to seeing how Akane is using her time outside of these emergency missions. Is she trying to track down Kogami and on the other hand trying to affect the society in some way? She knows better than most the system is far from perfect.

[shinta|hikari]

That was excellent.

It would have been perfect with even a second of Kogami in it.

What the hell is up with Psycho Pass and incompetent juniors? It is almost like they are promoting value due to seniority.

[neflight86]

I think Akane was just that good in a one in a million way. The new inspector has been with them for 1&1/2 years and is still stuck on the notion of using enforcers as 'shields' and full faith in Sybil while the old crew (aside from immature Gino) spoke of Sibyl's judgments sarcastically at best.

I guess you really do have to be able to think like a criminal to be... at all clever.

[shinta|hikari]

Rather than Akane being capable, everyone else just sucks. I could have deduced everything she did given the same information, and I'm no detective.

This makes sense though because of the Sybil system. It simply invites rot.

[Buffalobiian]

I guess you really do have to be able to think like a criminal to be... at all clever

That's one way to put it. At the very least, if you are unable to think like a criminal (Ginoza was kind of like that last season), then you're narrow minded.


What the hell is up with Psycho Pass and incompetent juniors?

I think juniors in general are less competent. I'm thankful for that, in a few ways. :p

The junior here is more like the old Ginoza though, where he did everything by the book/hierarchy. She's incompetent in a narrow-minded way. Akari in S1 was more naive, but you didn't really feel that Gino was more competent. (unless you're saying that Akari seemed incompetent compared to Kogami). I'm looking forward to see what Gino brings to the table in S2.For starters, he's no longer wearing his glasses. The natural answer is to say that it having his eyesight corrected surgically is more practical as an Enforcer. Symbolically you can say that he's taken to seeing the world with his own eyes these days.

[shinta|hikari]

Each time I was a junior, I have been more competent than my senior. Seniority is meaningless.

[Kraco]

Each time I was a junior, I have been more competent than my senior. Seniority is meaningless.

Well, based on the list in the Pit of the things you'd like to do (but fortunately don't), I'd say you are 100% capable of thinking like a criminal, so it's no wonder.

[Edort4]

Some1 thinks too highly of himself lol. Dont believe all your grandma (or ego) tells you. I think that this was a rather bland/weak start for a second season. Episode felt rushed and the next "bad guy" appearence forced.

[shinta|hikari]

It's actually not my personal evaluation, but society's (school, employment, competition). However, I never really took pride in that crap, so feel free to doubt me. This is the internet, after all.

Why was this episode weak? Out of curiosity, what did you expect to see?

@Kraco - Wait, what does criminality have to do with competence? Or was it the lack of respect to seniority?

[Edort4]

No reason to doubt you. Is just that it struck me funny how confident and reassured you sounded there.

Maybe weak wasnt the right word to describe the feeling this episode left me with. Its just that by the minute 5 I was introduced the new characters, was given a glympse of their personalities and was hinted about the plot of this season. I know that they are 20 minutes long episodes and that season can be only 13 episodes long thats barely 4 hours but I believe they could do a better/stronger (weak comes from here) work with a little bit of narrative structure improvement and playing with the tools it provides.

[Kraco]

@Kraco - Wait, what does criminality have to do with competence? Or was it the lack of respect to seniority?

Well, this is the Psycho-Pass thread and the first season taught us quite sufficiently that a detective needs some ability to think like a criminal to be able to really pull it off. How many times did Akane guess more or less correctly the criminal's intentions? A few times, at least.

[shinta|hikari]

Gotcha.

And you are probably right lol.

[Ryllharu]

Don't forget that the Sibyl system wants Inspectors that blindly follow its orders. They recommend people to take a job with the police. The difference is that Akane scored so high that she could do pretty much anything in society...but chose to work at the police.

The Sibyl system is the brains of the manufactured society, and the Inspectors are its hands. The Enforcers are just reusable materials, because the Inspectors are still tasked with stunning/killing them if need be.

Akane is the aberration, because she still thinks for herself. The Sibyl system finds her interesting enough not to kill her for knowing about them. And in their mind, she made the right judgment call here. The system will be very interested in knowing how this guy was able to make bombs intended for terrorist purposes without spiking his psycho-pass to levels where he would have been spotted right away. Her action to spare him instead of killing him gives them a way to study him (or simply incorporate him into their brain trust).

The key point is that Akane was able to talk him down so all the observers from the other teams wouldn't wonder why she was able to stun him when she should have killed him. I'd like to think the Sibyl system would have simply allowed her to stun him if no one else was looking.


edit:
Kunizuka and Ginoza will turn Shimotsuki around. They are both far more thoughtful than the average Enforcer. She was shocked that Kunizuka saved her (instead of what the average apathetic Enforcer likely does) and that Ginoza was intelligent, gave a shit, and was interested in more than just chasing and shooting. It'll be interesting to see where her character goes, despite the parallels to her and Ginoza. I hope they take it in a different direction though, whatever that may be.

[Buffalobiian]

I hope they take it in a different direction though, whatever that may be

I hope they derail her permamently in such a way that she can't turn her outlook around like Ginoza did. It would keep things interesting, less cliche, and also highlight the difference between the two. I'm totally expecting the reveal that Ginoza was an ex-Inspector to have a big effect on her though.

The psychotropic drugs they're handing out seemed like the obvious answer to how the bomb maker remained unclouded.

[Ryllharu]

The psychotropic drugs they're handing out seemed like the obvious answer to how the bomb maker remained unclouded.
That would be too obvious. I viewed it as more of a company trying to sell mass-produced Xanax...which is pretty fucked up.

Reminds me too much of the soma from Brave New World.

It felt too easy for that to be what works, considering the standard approach last season was robot psychotherapy, even on super traumatic shit like seeing your best friend getting murdered in front of you.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - S02E02 (http://www.nyaa.se/?page=download&tid=610321)

[Inazuma]

Oh boy ...

I love this show so much but looks like we're gonna get some " Sybil moves in mysterious ways " bullshit again.

[Ryllharu]

Fun fact:

Shimotsuki's VA, Sakura Ayane (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=20762), is a creepy big fan (http://ambiseiy.com/2013/10/15/sakura-ayane-and-her-love-for-hanazawa-kana/) of Akane's VA (Hanazawa Kana (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=176)).

Perhaps we'll see her character channeling her real world love when she gets all gooey over Yayoi?

[Buffalobiian]

Fun fact:

Shimotsuki's VA, Sakura Ayane (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=20762), is a creepy big fan (http://ambiseiy.com/2013/10/15/sakura-ayane-and-her-love-for-hanazawa-kana/) of Akane's VA (Hanazawa Kana (http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=creator&creatorid=176)).



Perhaps we'll see her character channeling her real world love when she gets all gooey over Yayoi?

From which I learned that Shimotsuki appeared in Psycho-pass 1 as:

http://i.imgur.com/7hlFfL1.jpg