Naruto Chapter 599

[Marik]

[MangaStream] Naruto c.599: Minus (http://minus.com/lOBUcUhwS9cK8) | SendSpace (http://www.sendspace.com/file/bo3fdo) | Online Viewing (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/62231699/1)

MangaPanda (http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/599)

[TwisT]

Hahahahaha this is gonna be so fun to see how people handle this. Will the winning camp rub it in the face of the losing camp? I will enjoy this weeks discussions.

Well it turned out as i believed it would after all the convincing arguments you made. But as i said before i hoped it wouldn't come to this. I really didn't want it to be him.

EDIT: BTW i loved the chapter and flashback. Was great that they didn't use any dialog or narration at all. Made it possible to make the flashback this short too and still cover so much. I wonder how they will make it in the anime. Will they do a 10-15 min clip with some music or will they actually add dialog or/and narration and maybe stretch out every flashback scene with added material?

[Confused_Yamato]

Well, there you have it... I liked the flashback though, nice to see everyone as kids. And how bad he had it for Rin.

[Death BOO Z]

sort of like UP, only less imaginative...

guess he also wanted to be hokage, it's a good use of imagiry.
weird seeing Kakashi there, but I guess we have to believe every known character went to the same class together.

[MFauli]

Fuck off, Kishimoto.

[TwisT]

sort of like UP, only less imaginative...

guess he also wanted to be hokage, it's a good use of imagiry.
weird seeing Kakashi there, but I guess we have to believe every known character went to the same class together.

UP? Care to clarify the reference. Hopefully it's not something obvious that make me look dumb :P

I guess there is big generations that is successful. Was a little strange to see the guy that has a straw in his mouth. I got the feeling he was a generation younger then Kakashi, Gai and Kurenai. Even though you don't see Kakashi's face Gai and Kurenai looks at least 5 years older then the straw guy.

[toonice714]

Up is that Disney movie where the first 20 mins is a super depressing montage of the old man's past.
Well.....this manga got some 'splaining to doooo. This unveil makes no sense...

[TwisT]

Ah i never saw that movie. One of the few Disney movies i haven't seen. The trailer didn't look appealing.

Anyways it has been foreshadowed for a long time so it doesn't come out of nowhere. But i 99.9% sure we will get a flashback of what made Obito go bad next chapter or the one after that. But I'm sure it has to do with Rin's death.

[Y]

I kept imagining Bigdawg reading this chapter with more and more stunned disbelief.

[deadlydreamx]

I kept imagining Bigdawg reading this chapter with more and more stunned disbelief.

Im sure he wont show up for a while.

[kyubisrage]

I kept imagining Bigdawg reading this chapter with more and more stunned disbelief.

lol, he probably thinks this is a fan made chapter

[Carnage]

Anyone else notice how the 4th's face is carved on the mountain before he is even Hokage? Kishimoto doesn't pay close attention.

1341

[unandpw]

I think Tobi is/was a lineage of people who fought to end war. The previous Tobi found Obito while he was dying and ended up saving, training, and telling him about his ideals. Obito took the new role we now have a new Tobi. It would also explain how he gave the Rinnegan to Nagato if it was actually a past Tobi.

Meh, just an idea.

[Tofu #2]

I was thinking that too, except just 1 other previous tobi.
back in the past he had long hair just like madara's
1342

the only thing is that would mean the previous tobi also had obito's eye.

[unandpw]

Not necessarily. We never actually see him use it then.

I think I should clarify my last post and say that Tobi was just a name that Obito chose for his new identity. All previous incarnations of "Tobi" should actually be referred to as the "masked man."

Like you said, you can see the previous masked man was exceptionally tall and had long hair. Both traits of Madara. Same posture too.
http://i32.mangapanda.com/naruto/590/naruto-3387687.jpg

Madara knew how to control the 9 tails and probably taught it to Obito...who then used it to attack the village.

[Y]

Yeah I can sort of get on board with the Dread Pirate Tobi theory. The only thing is, when the 4th says Madara is dead, Tobi says "I wouldn't say that..." or somesuch. Don't think he was talking about himself. Then again, he also says he "waited a long time" for this, so how's that work? Kamui timewarping shit?

[Tofu #2]

well, to clarify my last post, my theory makes the Tobi that fought the 4th not obito, because I still can't believe that.

btw, tobi has taken a rasengan to the spine, his right arm, and his face and has no damage to show. rasengan = sux

[DB_Hunter]

Well at least it is over now, one of the biggest mysterys of Naruto. Congrats to those who stuck to their guns and held on thinking it was Obito.

That said, I still think it is weird that it is him. I'm looking forward to the explanation because there are some serious questions that need answering.

[MFauli]

Can we all, at least, agree that this manga has finally "failed", if the whole twist behind Tobi/Obito is some time travel shit? I mean ... seriously ...

[Prof. Chaos]

This is just like the 4th being Naruto's dad from ages ago. Everyone "knew" it but still was no concrete proof until it was revealed.

I've been in the Tobi = Obito for a long time, but just this once I was hoping it would have been someone else for a twist, not something that has been telegraphed since forever.

[Dark Dragon]

So Obito is Naruto if Naruto didn't have magic fox hax powers.

I can't wait till this get animated. They haven't had a chance to do the Naruto "i'm lonely" comparison in a while, with a sad bgm playing in the background.

[DB_Hunter]

OK next guess. Orochimaru abused Obito as a kid which is why he ended up like this.

[Tofu #2]

Izuna is using his sexy no jutsu = obito

[Assertn]

As hilarious as this is that Obito is Tobi, it still reiterates how terrible of a job Kishimoto did at building up to this point. Either he went for shock value in attempting to throw such a ridiculous (yet predictable) curve ball, or he forgot how to develop his villains in a meaningful way. There better be a damn good explanation for this.


Anyone else notice how the 4th's face is carved on the mountain before he is even Hokage? Kishimoto doesn't pay close attention.

Didn't the 4th become Hokage before Obito *died*?
I could've sworn in the previous Kakashi flashback, Kakashi became the group leader, and the 4th goes off on his own to fight elsewhere, then he shows up with his kage cape and killed everyone with his teleporting daggers.

[Tofu #2]

I'm pretty sure he was a jounin at that point, just like kakashi,

[b1gdawg]

I'm not convinced until they explain everything like how "Obito" started the Akatsuki and gave Nagato the rinnegan. Or how he was able to get so strong in such a short period to fight his own teacher.

[Dark Dragon]

It's ok, it could still be Uchiha Izuna possessing Obito.

Super Special Weekly Secret Sauce Uchiha Tech #14: Possession
Find a near dead body.
Make sure it's an Uchiha
???
Profit.

[Sidnne]

I'm not convinced until they explain everything like how "Obito" started the Akatsuki and gave Nagato the rinnegan. Or how he was able to get so strong in such a short period to fight his own teacher.

Are you STILL trolling?? Give it up already.

[b1gdawg]

Are you STILL trolling?? Give it up already.

He didn't even claim to be Obito... All that happened was Kakashi or Gai asking if it was him.

[Sidnne]

He didn't even claim to be Obito... All that happened was Kakashi or Gai asking if it was him.

Ah, to be a teenager again... prideful and ignorant, and refusing to admit you were wrong to the death, while every word you say in defiance only makes you look more and more foolish and immature. Those were the days.

[kaigan]

oh what da fack is this BS!!! Tobi = Obito is a huge turn off. damn it, I can't jack off to this. it's just not right.

remember the Tobi vs. 4th? They are appr. equal in size!!! The 4th died when he was in his 20s. kakashi and comp. are like in very early 10s.

[b1gdawg]

Ah, to be a teenager again... prideful and ignorant, and refusing to admit you were wrong to the death, while every word you say in defiance only makes you look more and more foolish and immature. Those were the days.

I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong when I'm actually wrong. He didn't say hes Obito. What if it's another ninja in Obito's body?

Orochimaru took Gen'yūmaru's body. I'm pretty sure most people don't even know who that is, but it's still Orochimaru. This could be the same or a similar jutsu.

[TwisT]

Just a thought. If Obito was Tobi back when he fought the 4th, his size was a full grown man. But when he got crushed they had the size of Naruto & Co back at the chunnin exam (maybe slightly bigger). This could indicate a time gap of 5 years+. That is basically Narutos entire progress. If that is so then there would be no mystery how he became as powerful to fight the 4th.

But the possibility of Tobi being someone else back then is still open. And Zombie-Madara mentioned something like he knew who Tobi was didn't he (don't really remember if he actually said it or i just remember wrong)? If so Madara might have been Tobi back then. And rescued Obito and taught him some Uchiha skills and history and then died or being killed and Obito took over as Tobi. Also Obito claims that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. And we know the Rinnegan comes from the Sharingan. And the only one to have achieved that transformation so far is Madara. After all Tobi has one of his eyes and and Kakashi has the other. So it could be that when Madara-Tobi died Obito-Tobi took his eyes and then gave them to Nagato.

Just food for thought now that someone raised the idea of past and present Tobi might have been two different people.

[darkshadow]

This chapter really was a whole lot of nothing; I'm still waiting on that explanation kishi..

[UChessmaster]

I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong when I'm actually wrong. He didn't say hes Obito. What if it's another ninja in Obito's body?

Orochimaru took Gen'yūmaru's body. I'm pretty sure most people don't even know who that is, but it's still Orochimaru. This could be the same or a similar jutsu.

Yes, yes! keep going! your denial nurtures me!

[b1gdawg]

Just a thought. If Obito was Tobi back when he fought the 4th, his size was a full grown man. But when he got crushed they had the size of Naruto & Co back at the chunnin exam (maybe slightly bigger). This could indicate a time gap of 5 years+. That is basically Narutos entire progress. If that is so then there would be no mystery how he became as powerful to fight the 4th.

But the possibility of Tobi being someone else back then is still open. And Zombie-Madara mentioned something like he knew who Tobi was didn't he (don't really remember if he actually said it or i just remember wrong)? If so Madara might have been Tobi back then. And rescued Obito and taught him some Uchiha skills and history and then died or being killed and Obito took over as Tobi. Also Obito claims that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. And we know the Rinnegan comes from the Sharingan. And the only one to have achieved that transformation so far is Madara. After all Tobi has one of his eyes and and Kakashi has the other. So it could be that when Madara-Tobi died Obito-Tobi took his eyes and then gave them to Nagato.

Just food for thought now that someone raised the idea of past and present Tobi might have been two different people.

Madara knew Nagato too.


Yes, yes! keep going! your denial nurtures me!

I think I'm the only one who realized the "?" at the end of the chapter

[UChessmaster]

Madara knew Nagato too.

I think I'm the only one who realized the "?" at the end of the chapter

The "Obito?" part? that was kakashi wondering, it usually is hard to believe your dead friend is alive and evil, even in a ninja world, good job finding the "?" and ignoring everything else in the chapter though.

[EpyonNext]

Not necessarily. We never actually see him use it then.

I think I should clarify my last post and say that Tobi was just a name that Obito chose for his new identity. All previous incarnations of "Tobi" should actually be referred to as the "masked man."

Like you said, you can see the previous masked man was exceptionally tall and had long hair. Both traits of Madara. Same posture too.
http://i32.mangapanda.com/naruto/590/naruto-3387687.jpg

Madara knew how to control the 9 tails and probably taught it to Obito...who then used it to attack the village.

There's been speculation in a few places even prior to this Tobi = Obito reveal that Obito inherited the Tobi identity from Madara. Right now, to me at least, it makes the most sense.

[Tofu #2]

Just a thought. If Obito was Tobi back when he fought the 4th, his size was a full grown man. But when he got crushed they had the size of Naruto & Co back at the chunnin exam (maybe slightly bigger). This could indicate a time gap of 5 years+. That is basically Narutos entire progress. If that is so then there would be no mystery how he became as powerful to fight the 4th.

But the possibility of Tobi being someone else back then is still open. And Zombie-Madara mentioned something like he knew who Tobi was didn't he (don't really remember if he actually said it or i just remember wrong)? If so Madara might have been Tobi back then. And rescued Obito and taught him some Uchiha skills and history and then died or being killed and Obito took over as Tobi. Also Obito claims that he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. And we know the Rinnegan comes from the Sharingan. And the only one to have achieved that transformation so far is Madara. After all Tobi has one of his eyes and and Kakashi has the other. So it could be that when Madara-Tobi died Obito-Tobi took his eyes and then gave them to Nagato.

Just food for thought now that someone raised the idea of past and present Tobi might have been two different people.

In regards to Tobi's age during his fight with the 4th.
Kakashi was 13 when Obito died. He was approximately 26 when the series started. Given that Tobi showed up on Narutos birthday, and Naruto is 12 at the series start, Tobi showed up APPROXIMATELY 1 YEAR after Obito "died"

Carrying on my recent post about Madara and Obito both acting as Tobi, yes Madara mentioned he knew who Tobi was.
If you take my point about the hair length, when Tobi fought the 4th, he had short hair, when Itachi approached Tobi, he had long hair (and is tall as fuck). The next time we see Tobi chronologically he has short hair again. Aside from Lee, Sakura & Ino who all cut their hair for a reason, nobody has really shown any difference in hair style at all. Kakashi probably hasnt cut his hair in 30 years.

Another thing, Tobi said to Konan that he's the one who told Yahiko to form Akatsuki, that would have happened before Obito even died..

[Y]

I think I'm the only one who realized the "?" at the end of the chapter

No one is buying it anymore. Don't ever post here again.

[kaniskii]

You guys are too vested in this story. I never understood why we get so upset over this stuff. I guess it just shows how much you all care about Naruto =)
I though the chapter was awesome. Seeing more of the adults as kids is great. Asuma looks cool! Kakashi yelling at Obito for being late...CLASSIC! Gai not remembering who Obito was in the third round...CLASSIC!
I am happy and enjoyed the chapter. We should see what the explanation will be next week before we go into too much. I mean we basically knew it was Obito. It has been pointed out so many times in the story. Having clarity is a good thing though. I like the reasoning of the masked man as a symbol, and that Obito was given it. That said, it could make since that we see the masked man through the Naruto time line and is just different people taking on the mantel. One time when they asked Tobi (or Obito we can call him now) who he was, he said it did not matter, and I guess that’s right. It might be Obito under the mask, but that does not matter. What matters is the reason they are fighting. What they are fighting for is what matters. Anyone can be a masked man.

[b1gdawg]

No one is buying it anymore. Don't ever post here again.

no i think i will

I can't wait till you people open up next week's chapter and read Tobi saying - "No you morons, Obito is dead"

[UChessmaster]

Can i quote that next week?

[Carnage]

$50 says b1gdawg is one of the Gotwoot regulars with a fake account. Although browsing through the Naruto threads for the past few weeks makes me wonder how this forum is still so gullible in 2012.

[Dark Dragon]

$50 says b1gdawg is one of the Gotwoot regulars with a fake account. Although browsing through the Naruto threads for the past few weeks makes me wonder how this forum is still so gullible in 2012.

Aren't we all gullible though? We're still reading Naruto in 2012.

All the smart people got out a long time ago.

[Tyreal]

Wasn't Tobi said to be a former Mizukage at some point? I suppose it could of been a sharingan genjutsu or transformation technique, but that seems like a poor excuse.

[Cal_kashi]

SON OF A BITCH!

[Tofu #2]

I suppose it could of been a sharingan genjutsu or transformation technique, but that seems like a poor excuse.

D:
That's...exactly what it was and explained as.

@Kaniiski: Did you rip that paragraph from a movie? T for tobi or something?

[cuaghe]

Why are people complaining that Tobi is Obito? Sorry, I haven't been keeping up to this manga for years.

[Y]

Generally because they find fault with the character's motivations and the timeline of events, as well as feeling cheated from the diminishing returns of a second, true reveal of the villain's identity. Also because they obviously had a lot invested in their pet theories about who Tobi was and by the end were having to ignore a whole lot of stuff to not realize who it was going to be in the end, and cognitive dissonance is a bitch.

[Death BOO Z]

I'll gladly admit that I'm wrong when I'm actually wrong. He didn't say hes Obito. What if it's another ninja in Obito's body?


your persistence is remarkable.

[MFauli]

Yeah, smart people stopped reading this manga when Sasuke defeated Deidara. Unfortunately, I wasn´t that smart :/


Why are people complaining that Tobi is Obito? Sorry, I haven't been keeping up to this manga for years.

Because that was the lamest possible option for Tobi´s revelation. When, at the beginning of the time skip, Tobi was shown, people started their theories about him being Obito. People waited for years to find out who is behind this mask, and now the most obvious guess turned out to be right.

[Death BOO Z]

Nartopedia already combined both pages into one. making it impossible to read through the clues again.
although, MFauli, you're correct. Tobi debuted in chapter 280. and right away (http://forums.gotwoot.net/showthread.php/11827-Naruto-280-Raw/page3) we started discussing the possibility of him being Obito.
It's the same mistake Kishimonto did with the 4th being Naruto's dad and the 9tails bonding with naruto. it happened too late in the story that people stopped caring, and were disappointed that all the wait was for the most obvious solution.

[digitalrurouni]

I think I knew that Obito would be Tobi since we saw how Tobi was running Akatsuki. I mean the biggest clue for me was the eye that he gave up to Kakashi was covered up in his mask. Nothing surprising about this reveal.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

bout to see how far back I can go to find a post where I called this and everyone laughed at me, then I went home and cried.

[animus]

I knew Tobi was going to be Obito, but I really wanted it to be a huge fuck you and end up being Nidaime.

[Assertn]

Thinking back on it now, all the past scenes of Tobi running around being the comic-relief akatsuki member has somehow became funnier knowing that he was doing it as Obito.

[Confused_Yamato]

Thinking back on it now, all the past scenes of Tobi running around being the comic-relief akatsuki member has somehow became funnier knowing that he was doing it as Obito.

That.

Same thought was bouncing around my head too.

[Cal_kashi]

. One time when they asked Tobi (or Obito we can call him now) who he was, he said it did not matter, and I guess that’s right. It might be Obito under the mask, but that does not matter. What matters is the reason they are fighting. What they are fighting for is what matters. Anyone can be a masked man.

As V points out in V for Vendetta, there is an inherent contradiction in asking a masked man what his name is. *Unless* that sucker is wearing the mask to hide some horrible deformity, do you seriously expect a straight answer from someone who is obviously and overtly trying to hide who he is?



Has anyone else here read Jim Butcher's Codex Alera? (Furies of Calderon, Academ's fury, cursor's fury... First Lord's Fury) You remember the holy shit moment when you realized that Tavi was so named because he was Octavian? Kishimoto has been teasing us with this reveal FOREVER.

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq238/user0_cool/pinkie_foprever.jpg

[darkshadow]

This chapter really was a whole lot of nothing; I'm still waiting on that explanation kishi..

Lol I got a neg rep for this?...why?

[EpyonNext]

Lol I got a neg rep for this?...why?

Because people take this shit way too seriously.

[Archangel]

$50 says b1gdawg is one of the Gotwoot regulars with a fake account. Although browsing through the Naruto threads for the past few weeks makes me wonder how this forum is still so gullible in 2012.
It's mage. It's always mage.

[poopdeville]

I've been saying it was "plausible" (i.e., consistent with what in retrospect is confirmed as foreshadowing) that Tobi was Obito for a long time now, but I never did really commit to the theory. I also thought it was plausible that he was Danzo, until he died. (I liked that theory better, actually)

I think it's a piece of Madara's chakra he left behind in case he was killed, and that it possessed Obito like Orochimaru or a bijuu might. It could be pretty epic if the Orochimaru we all knew and loved was actually a clone, and that he got his Sharingan by taking Obito's body.

The timeline for being "just" Obito doesn't fit so well, unless he ages faster (and maybe trains with Kage Bunshin) in the Kamui dimension.

[Y]

In context with the fact that Tobi has Obito's body, his leading statements about his history with Gai and Kakashi imply nothing but him being Obito (not to mention obvious metafictional evidence like the fact that the chapter where Tobi's identity is revealed is called "Uchiha Obito").

The bigger factor here is that if this person is not Uchiha Obito, in mind and body and spirit, every piece of evidence leading up to this was all just misdirection and pointless. Whoever it might be, if it wasn't him, had zero buildup and was a noncharacter in the series. All the deeply personal pathos and the connection to Kakashi and Gai are ruined if it was anyone else. I can see if he got help or possibly even if at one point Tobi was another person, but it's all but confirmed now that he is and has always been Tobi.

[Sidnne]

Some serious now: I was looking back over the past threads a little bit, and stumbled upon a post I had made wondering if there was any significance to the thing on Madara's back the first time we saw an image of him. Turns out, that thing on his back is the weird fan weapon thing that Obito has been fighting with.

Madara: http://www.mangapanda.com/93-375-15/naruto/chapter-370.html
Obito: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/599/15

This leads me to believe that Obito must have really met Madara at some point.

Somehow Orochimaru ties into all of this, which is why he was brought back. I'm going to say that Obito phased into Oro's hideout, and stumbled upon his experiments with resurrection and the first's DNA. Then maybe he, with Oro's help, resurrected Madara temporarily, using the first's DNA. The edo tensei was incomplete at that time, so Madara was very weak and not able to use his powers, but Obito was able to learn a bunch of stuff from him. Somewhere in that time they created the Zetsu clones, met Nagato, and started Akatsuki. Then, since the edo tensei was incomplete, it "wore off" and Madara faded away.

This could explain how Madara knew about the "other Madara" and Nagato.

[UChessmaster]

This leads me to believe that Obito must have really met Madara at some point.

Not exactly, i`m not saying he didn`t, but he could`ve found that fan anywhere without meeting Madara.

[Y]

This leads me to believe that Obito must have really met Madara at some point.

Tobi implies that Madara is less than dead when fighting the Fourth, but doesn't claim to actually BE Madara at that point. I'm not sure Orochimaru was involved although as you said it seems likely since he was randomly revived from the dead at just this time. Maybe Tobi is "the man who knows everything" thanks to his contact with Madara? Maybe Madara is "the man who knows everything" and they're gonna hit him up like Tobi did? In any case it seems likely that Tobi considers himself the inheritor of Madara's legacy, either literally or figuratively.

[Carnage]

Man who knows everything is probably the original sage or something, I forget his name. I doubt Kishi would make a suspicious deal of Tobi or Madara while they were currently fighting battles.

[b1gdawg]

I can see if he got help or possibly even if at one point Tobi was another person, but it's all but confirmed now that he is and has always been Tobi.

What? You can see if Tobi was another person, but he is and has always been Tobi. -_-

If it does end up being Obito then Madara probably hadn't died until recently.

[rockmanj]

What? You can see if Tobi was another person, but he is and has always been Tobi. -_-

If it does end up being Obito then Madara probably hadn't died until recently.

Why do you keep saying "if"? Or are you talking about the man that knows everything? Tobi could have easily been another person at some point, but the one we are seeing now is without a doubt Obito.

[Sidnne]

Not exactly, i`m not saying he didn`t, but he could`ve found that fan anywhere without meeting Madara.

Yeah, he could have found it anywhere, but that would be one hell of a coincidence. There is a lot of evidence to suggest a connection between Madara and Obito, other than Obtio using his name. I just think this fan is another piece of evidence.

[Death BOO Z]

doesn't it have something to do with the uchiha's secret shrine. where the cat lady lives (remember that shit?)

[DB_Hunter]

Maybe the fan is an Uchiha relic passed down the generations that Obito just took after the clan was destroyed. We don't see him using it against Minato when the clan was alive and only see him with it when the 4th ninja war is about to begin.

What I am interested in is how Obito has not gone blind from using Kamui so much. Is kishi going to pull the old Senju cells implant story to resolve this one or leave it as a plot hole? I mean the guy uses the eye for every fight, there is no way he could see through it considering Itachi was going blind from his MS and he was younger. Even Kakashi has felt the effects of blindness creeping in from having a MS briefly.

Above all, why was he hiding his identity? He could have just gone rouge like every other ninja in Akatsuki, it wasn't as if anyone would be able to stop him. If people like Kakashi found out it would have just become another Jiraiya/Oro and Naruto/Sasuke situation...

[b1gdawg]

Why do you keep saying "if"? Or are you talking about the man that knows everything? Tobi could have easily been another person at some point, but the one we are seeing now is without a doubt Obito.

Well yah you're right it is irrelevant if this is Obito or just a vessel, there probably we're 2 Masked men (maybe more). Madara was probably the one who attacked the village with the Kyuubi then came back and killed the Uchiha clan. The only way for the pieces of the puzzle to fit is if Madara hadn't died until very recently. I think Itachi was pretty smart and i doubt he would lie to Sasuke during their fight, and he said Madara was still alive.

But the main point of that reply was to point out that he said something, then disagreed with it several words later.

And I'm still clueless as to who the Man who knows everything is. It might be Itachi or the six paths.

[FireEmblem]

So Obito gave in to the hate and turned evil.

[Y]

What? You can see if Tobi was another person, but he is and has always been Tobi. -_-

It's no longer possible to argue the current Tobi is not Obito, but it's still theoretically possible that it was someone else in the past. That being said, this explanation and the backstory makes it unlikely that he was ever anyone different, as he is not claiming to be Madara in the past and his motivations line up from what we know about the current Tobi. It's possible, but very unlikely.

[toonice714]

So Obito gave in to the hate and turned evil.

Let the hate flow through you

[February]

Why are people complaining that Tobi is Obito? Sorry, I haven't been keeping up to this manga for years.

-Because Tobi has no reason/motivation to turn evil and attack the village. Imagine Sakura turning evil and wiping out the leaf village.

- The age for the timeline doesnt make sense. Tobi/Obito would have been 12 or 13 years old when he fought the 4th Hokage. The fact that he was one of the weakest genins around, and somehow he has enough power in 1 year to fight toe-to-toe vs. the 4th. We are also shown a full-grown adult fighting the 4th in the flashback.

- He died. Everyone knows that Kishimoto ran out of good candidates for Tobi's identity so he just pulled something outta his ass.

Basically Tobi being Obito was something people first assumed, and then realized it would be a stupid idea since timelines/logic/plot doesn't make sense, but then Kishi just said fuck you to all us readers anyway.

[UChessmaster]

-Because Tobi has no reason/motivation to turn evil and attack the village. Imagine Sakura turning evil and wiping out the leaf village.

And how do you know this? the last time he appeared was what? 17 years ago? people change.


- The age for the timeline doesnt make sense. Tobi/Obito would have been 12 or 13 years old when he fought the 4th Hokage. The fact that he was one of the weakest genins around, and somehow he has enough power in 1 year to fight toe-to-toe vs. the 4th. We are also shown a full-grown adult fighting the 4th in the flashback.

He was around 16 when he died, around 17 when he fought the 4th, how do you know he was a full grown adult? did you saw his face? he got too strong in a year? Kabuto infused himself with Oro cells, mastered sage techniques without clones, digged up 50+ corpses all over the continent in a matter of months.


- He died. Everyone knows that Kishimoto ran out of good candidates for Tobi's identity so he just pulled something outta his ass.

I die a little every time i hear this one. THIS IS A COMIC BOOK!!!! A COMIC BOOK!!! ...about ninjas that not only survived near deaths experiences but actually survived death itself. Why is Tobi surviving such a huge deal?

[Sidnne]

lol. Don't even bother explaining it to February. He spent years getting angry and calling people idiots every time they mentioned Obito, so now he is just mad the idiot turned out to be himself.

[darkshadow]

He was 13 when he died not 16.

[Sidnne]

I honestly don't see why his age matters. We really don't know his age at all, we are just speculating based on Naturo's age at the time of the Chuunin exam. But, we saw from the flashback that enough time had passed from Obito/Kakashi/Rin taking the chuunin exam to the 3rd ninja war, to allow Kakashi to be promoted to jounin and for Obito to take the chuunin exam a second time.
We also don't know how much time passed from his "death" to the attack on Konoha.

If his height is the issue for some, when we see Kakashi and the others during the attack on Konoha, they appear to be the same height as Naruto is currently. Obito would be of similar height.

If power is the issue, he was only able to do what he did because of an overpowered mangekyou ability. And he still did not measure up to Minato in any way. He challenged Minato, but he was overconfident and got his ass royally kicked and was forced to retreat. Even with an time-space ninjutsu superior to Minato's, he lacked Minato's experience.

I'm sure if you are patient, we will get some flashbacks that show what happened and answer most of the questions. Kakashi will most likely ask Obito many of these questions himself.

[FireEmblem]

I'm guessing Kakashi will get this other eye and complete an EMS set.

Tobi's MS technique is so overhyped imo. It's nuts that it even took this long for them to land a hit on him. They already know how the technique works, Naruto with some kage bunshins should be able to own that technique, especially cause that's the ONLY thing he does 1v1.

[Sidnne]

Tobi's MS technique is so overhyped imo. It's nuts that it even took this long for them to land a hit on him. They already know how the technique works, Naruto with some kage bunshins should be able to own that technique, especially cause that's the ONLY thing he does 1v1.

It was only done this way to work in the Kakashi eye connection. Not a big deal.

Plus, sending the kagebunshin to the other dimension was pretty damn cool.

[FireEmblem]

I don't mind these chapters. They were necessary and answered a lot of questions we've had since Kakashi first got his MS. My problem is just that I don't think Tobi's ability is that great. Kishimoto just shuts off the characters brains when they're up against him.

The 4th landed a hit within minutes, using a strategy similar to what Naruto pulled off in the first arc of the series, yet somehow now that he's faster, stronger, and smarter he can't think of it or pull it off. Even the way Konan landed her first hit on him was really simple. Any fool should be able to rig a kage bunshin with exploding tags. Granted, none of that is as cool as teleporting a kage bunshin to the other dimension.

[darkshadow]

I honestly don't see why his age matters. We really don't know his age at all, we are just speculating based on Naturo's age at the time of the Chuunin exam. But, we saw from the flashback that enough time had passed from Obito/Kakashi/Rin taking the chuunin exam to the 3rd ninja war, to allow Kakashi to be promoted to jounin and for Obito to take the chuunin exam a second time.
We also don't know how much time passed from his "death" to the attack on Konoha.

If his height is the issue for some, when we see Kakashi and the others during the attack on Konoha, they appear to be the same height as Naruto is currently. Obito would be of similar height.

If power is the issue, he was only able to do what he did because of an overpowered mangekyou ability. And he still did not measure up to Minato in any way. He challenged Minato, but he was overconfident and got his ass royally kicked and was forced to retreat. Even with an time-space ninjutsu superior to Minato's, he lacked Minato's experience.

I'm sure if you are patient, we will get some flashbacks that show what happened and answer most of the questions. Kakashi will most likely ask Obito many of these questions himself.

I dunno where you put your eyes, but during the chuunin exams, kakashi and crew were tiny, the size of konohamaru at the start of the show.
During kakashi gaiden, they were the size of naruto/sasuke during their battle of the valley of the end.
And why is this even being debated, it has already been established that kakashi became chuunin at age 6 and jounin at age 13 (nearly the same as itachi), also the fact that he is 26 at the start of the show means obito died at 13 and the naruto's birth was 1 year later.

[Sidnne]

I dunno where you put your eyes, but during the chuunin exams, kakashi and crew were tiny, the size of konohamaru at the start of the show.
During kakashi gaiden, they were the size of naruto/sasuke during their battle of the valley of the end.

Ok... I only commented on their height during the attack on Konoha, so not really sure what you're replying to here.



And why is this even being debated, it has already been established that kakashi became chuunin at age 6 and jounin at age 13 (nearly the same as itachi), also the fact that he is 26 at the start of the show means obito died at 13 and the naruto's birth was 1 year later.

Obviously he didn't die. And why can't he be as tall as Minato at 14? Why the hell are we even debating his height as a plot hole? Are the Obito detractors really that desperate? Growing tall during puberty is not a plot hole.

[darkshadow]

Ok... I only commented on their height during the attack on Konoha, so not really sure what you're replying to here.

The battle of konoha was 1 year later, making kakashi 14; naruto at age 14 was not as tall as he currently is.
http://i10.mangareader.net/naruto/597/naruto-3519103.jpg
^that picture clearly shows the missing year between his 15 and 13 year old self.
At 14 naruto would be much smaller than itachi, who himself was just as tall or even smaller than tobi.
So saying kakashi (14) was as tall as current 16/17 year old naruto is just seeing things that aren't there.



Obviously he didn't die. And why can't he be as tall as Minato at 14? Why the hell are we even debating his height as a plot hole? Are the Obito detractors really that desperate? Growing tall during puberty is not a plot hole.

err what? I wasn't pointing out his height there; I didn't point out height at all untill you brought it up.
That part was about how it is established fact that:
Obito "died" at 13
Kakashi was 13 in kakashi gaiden
Kakashi was 26 at the start of the show
Tobi's attack thus happens 1 year after obito's death.

This is in direct reply to your bs about:

We really don't know his age at all, we are just speculating based on Naturo's age at the time of the Chuunin exam. But, we saw from the flashback that enough time had passed from Obito/Kakashi/Rin taking the chuunin exam to the 3rd ninja war, to allow Kakashi to be promoted to jounin and for Obito to take the chuunin exam a second time.
We also don't know how much time passed from his "death" to the attack on Konoha.


And "growing tall during puberty" is seriously the most retarded argument you've made on this forum so far, it's almost on the level of Animeniax-stupid.
There is clearly something strange going on with Tobi's body that has little to do with "pubescant growth" and more with zombie/zetsu/senju/kamui bullshit.

Also Obito detractor? Really?

Clearly everything points to Tobi being Obito, but I find there are just too many problems with this.
This post will be about why he shouldn't be obito.

I clearly stated that tobi = obito, but kishi needs to come up with an extremely good explanation.

[Sidnne]

What the hell... I wasn't speaking to you in my first post. I didn't quote you until you responded to me. February was griping about Obito being "a full-grown adult" when he fought the 4th. I was speaking in general about the topic, not in response to you. I did not say you were an Obito-detractor or that you personally were talking about anyone's height. When I said "we," I was not referring to you and I, I was referring to everyone in this thread, because there are Obito-detractors in here who are claiming Obito's height to be a plot hole and there has been much debate about Obito's height.

[Edort4]

Hell Yeah Kishimoto fullfilled some nerds wet dreams and throw out another poor plot... twist?¿. Im sure that in the next couple of chapters we will get some kind of nonsensical and crappy explanation on how this shit happened. Damn how bad this series has gotten. Anyway I hope that this arc will close naruto forever and prevent further desecrations.

[UChessmaster]

Hell Yeah Kishimoto fullfilled some nerds wet dreams and throw out another poor plot... twist?¿. Im sure that in the next couple of chapters we will get some kind of nonsensical and crappy explanation on how this shit happened. Damn how bad this series has gotten. Anyway I hope that this arc will close naruto forever and prevent further desecrations.

How is it a poor plot twist when it`s yet to be explained...? Why are people so against the idea of tobi being obito? someone explain please!

[Sidnne]

How is it a poor plot twist when it`s yet to be explained...? Why are people so against the idea of tobi being obito? someone explain please!

Because they argued that it wasn't Obito, and now they are mad that they were wrong. They aren't mature enough to say "OK, I was wrong," so instead they are crying about plot holes and calling Kishi stupid for having it be Obito.

[DB_Hunter]

Hang about guys, that isn't true. I for one was a major proponent of Tobi not being Obito yet I have accepted I was wrong and I'm sure others have too. However that said it doesn't detract from the points made in our arguments that whilst it wasn't conclusive even a chapter ago who Tobi was, if it turned out to be Obito (a possibility not dismissed out of hand) there would be serious questions to be answered. Just because Kishi has unveiled Tobi to be Obito doesn't mean everything fits perfectly.

I think the following chapter(s) will determine whether or not Obito is a credible Tobi, not that he is Tobi which we all know now (unless in the highly unlikely scenario it turns out to be some other spirit/being merely inhabiting Obito's body, given all the build up Obito received in this chapter). I still believe the age thing is an issue though am now more undecided on Obito's sudden abilities surge given the discussion around how quickly Naruto developed; then again Naruto is the main character so you would expect such advances in him and even with that his powerups are Kyuubi related apart from Sage Mode and Rasenshuriken.

[poopdeville]

Because they argued that it wasn't Obito, and now they are mad that they were wrong. They aren't mature enough to say "OK, I was wrong," so instead they are crying about plot holes and calling Kishi stupid for having it be Obito.

To be fair, there was foreshadowing that Tobi was Obito, but the plot holes made a pretty strong case against it. I want a sensible explanation for them, and I'll be unhappy with the story if there isn't one.

[Sidnne]

I just think everyone is being overly analytical in an attempt to placate their own egos. It's not like Kishi is writing a Pulitzer prize novel. He is writing a comic book. We don't read it for profound depth, but for the "cool and fun" factor. It's like going to a Michael Bay film and walking out of the theatre complaining he didn't explain how the entire world wasn't destroyed by the excessive amount of explosions.