Naruto Chapter 598

[Marik]

MangaPanda (http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/598)

[Archangel]

Ha! That was clever, an attack from both fronts.

[Uchiha Barles]

This whole fight, with all the shiny lights and ground/mountain crumbling going on, really puts the power and abilities of the 4th into perspective. He made kicking Tobi's ass look easy.

[Death BOO Z]

I'm impressed. that was a good tactic...

[viperwasp]

"Dick Move" or "Reveal"?

What will kishimoto do next chapter? Will it be a Dick Move and not show us who Tobi is? Like go on to an other fight or some other events? Or just have Tobi put on an other mask... lol or will there be a Reveal? I'm talking about the very next chapter. Vote now!

I Vote Reveal. But I could be wrong.

[Tofu #2]

heh.

there was a link i posted in another thread where kishi said tobi would be revealed before the end of august

[Carnage]

How is it possible in any way that tobi's face will withstand a mountain shattering rasengan?

[UChessmaster]

Well he did took a huge ass boulder once...

[viperwasp]

Well he did took a huge ass boulder once...


So you read next weeks leak as well! Cleaver! I like how you worded that. lol It makes it seem like it's Obito. I to thought it was funny that Tobi turned out to be the only other person who took a huge boulder in the series. Although not quite in the same way obito did. I can't wait to see the actual manga though. Only reading spoiler leaks does not do it justice. Not many of us were right Kishimoto was smart about this! I was wrong on my speculations but at least it was not something silly and unbelievable like obito!

[UChessmaster]

Next weeks leak... what? no, i haven`t.

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/598/15

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-33-19/naruto/chapter-28.html

Kinda cool huh?

[Cal_kashi]

Oh you utter ass, Kishimoto!

[viperwasp]

Next weeks leak what? no, i haven`t.

Troll... lol Sorry! But since I was kidding you should be happy it might still be obito. I don't really care as long as we find out one way or an other. I am curious though what other characters have been hit with a boulder just in case by fluke my joke came true. I'm trying to think of characters that have and none come to mind.


Next weeks leak... what? no, i haven`t.

Kinda cool huh?

Thats freakishly cool! Thanks for sharing.

ALSO!!!
I should not even bring this up... but if you look at Narutos face on this page...
http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/598/15
The bottom left panel were you see the back of Tobi's head... look at Narutos face... It looks funny... now it's not really Narutos face but I had to do a double take... it looked like Naruto suddenly put on face decorations that only Mayuri Kurotsuchi would approve of. Or at least to me it does. I think it's a little funny...

[Dark Dragon]

Just a random thought, but what if Tobi is actually Rin?

We don't know what happened to her, so it's very possible that's she alive. She performed the operation to give Kakashi Obito's eye so she has experience in transferring eyes. It might be possible for her to obtain both those eyes through some random event. She goes through some tragic event and ends up resenting Konoha/Kakashi as she dies(not die?) while blaming them for Obito's death.

It's also strangely odd that with all of the sob story going on in this manga that Kakashi love interest just dies mysteriously off screen. It would also fit with the theme that every female in this series can't seem to do anything by themselves and every action must be influenced by a male.

Of course this is just a random thought, he's probably going to turn out to be Obito anyway.

[rockmanj]

Just a random thought, but what if Tobi is actually Rin?

We don't know what happened to her, so it's very possible that's she alive. She performed the operation to give Kakashi Obito's eye so she has experience in transferring eyes. It might be possible for her to obtain both those eyes through some random event. She goes through some tragic event and ends up resenting Konoha/Kakashi as she dies(not die?) while blaming them for Obito's death.

It's also strangely odd that with all of the sob story going on in this manga that Kakashi love interest just dies mysteriously off screen. It would also fit with the theme that every female in this series can't seem to do anything by themselves and every action must be influenced by a male.

Of course this is just a random thought, he's probably going to turn out to be Obito anyway.

If that is the case, she must have been using Henge and changing her voice the whole time. Remember when Itachi implanted something in Sasuke's eyes that burned Tobi's mask? It was clearly a man's face underneath.

[DB_Hunter]

How the hell is Tobi going to be identified after taking a Super Kyuubi level 10 Sage mode Rasengan to the face?

It can't be Rin, as the frequency of Kamui's use by Tobi suggests only a natural Uchiha body could withstand it. I'm still not giving up on it being Izuna; he could be just trolling Kakashi to win the fight. Besides if it does turn out to be Obito it would plot hole the timelines vis a vis fight with Minato etc.

Also, the amount of times he has used Kamui means he should have gone blind by now if all he has was normal MS, like Itachi, Kakashi, pre-transplant Sasuke/Madara. The fact he can still use his eye must mean it is an EMS, which follows that it isn't Tobi's natural eye but rather a transplant.

Thirdly, the fact that Kurama thinks that Tobi is Madara must mean either Tobi posseses Madara's chakra or his own is almost indistinguishable from Madara's. The former could mean it is Obito through some trick, whilst the latter could point to Izuna.

[Sidnne]

How the hell is Tobi going to be identified after taking a Super Kyuubi level 10 Sage mode Rasengan to the face?

He's wearing a helmet. Probably an adamantium helmet.


It can't be Rin, as the frequency of Kamui's use by Tobi suggests only a natural Uchiha body could withstand it. I'm still not giving up on it being Izuna; he could be just trolling Kakashi to win the fight. Besides if it does turn out to be Obito it would plot hole the timelines vis a vis fight with Minato etc.

Obito would have been a teenager during that time period. There was nothing to suggest an age of Tobi during that fight, so it being Obito does not put a hole in the plot.


Also, the amount of times he has used Kamui means he should have gone blind by now if all he has was normal MS, like Itachi, Kakashi, pre-transplant Sasuke/Madara. The fact he can still use his eye must mean it is an EMS, which follows that it isn't Tobi's natural eye but rather a transplant.

It wouldn't be the first time Kishi ignored previously stated "facts" about the sharingan.


Thirdly, the fact that Kurama thinks that Tobi is Madara must mean either Tobi posseses Madara's chakra or his own is almost indistinguishable from Madara's. The former could mean it is Obito through some trick, whilst the latter could point to Izuna.

Kurama also said that Sasuke's chakra was just like Madara's, so maybe all Uchiha has similar chakra. Or maybe he was referring to Tobi when he said that, not knowing who Tobi really is and only that Tobi called himself Madara.

Plus, why would Izuna wear a mask to hide his identity? It would be rather anti-climatic to hide his identity for this long, only to reveal him and have nobody recognize him or know who he is.


Honestly, if you're not convinced by this point that it is Obito, then it's going to take seeing his face and having Kakashi say "...O..bi...to...!?" Because Kishi has done everything possible to let us know who he is, except for show his face at this point.

[DB_Hunter]

Yeah Obito being a teenager is a problem. It doesn't make sense he would obtain a jump in abilities from being a nobody in to ninja to rival a Hokage. Even Sasuke, a genius from the start, has taken time to get to where he is without having one of his eyes gone and part of his body crushed.

Kurama spoke about Sasuke's chakra being more sinister than his own, like Madara's was. Yet in the case of Tobi he doesn't imply Tobi is like Madara but that he IS Madara.

Izuna wearing a helmet? Well to hide his identity for some stupid Uchiha clan related reason. Not to mess up the legend of the two powerful brothers. How would the political aims of Madara be served (to get the Uchiha to revolt) if they knew his brother in cahoots with him was going arond stealing eyes?

Apart from all this the reason I'm not conviced it is Obito is because it sounds too straightforward. I know people for ages speculated about Minato being Naruto's dad and it turned out to be true, but we are approaching the end of the manga now and it would be more dramatic a twist for everyone to be led down one path and then being wrong footed to the very end. I'm not completely ruling out Obito, as we are all just speculating, but I think it would serve the series better for it to be Izuna. Plus that may explain why Madara is aware of Tobi. Additionally, it would serve a greater purpose for Madara to remain present in the story fighting the Kages than to just be the big bad villain no one can seemingly beat.

[Carnage]

Maybe Tobi doesn't age when he's in the alternate dimension?

[UChessmaster]

How the hell is Tobi going to be identified after taking a Super Kyuubi level 10 Sage mode Rasengan to the face?

That`s going to be the punchline, it`s going to leave such a scar that no one will i.d him.




How can Izuna know things only Kakashi and Obito know? it wouldn`t be a plot hole, he had a mask back then...

[quote=DB_Hunter]Also, the amount of times he has used Kamui means he should have gone blind by now if all he has was normal MS, like Itachi, Kakashi, pre-transplant Sasuke/Madara. The fact he can still use his eye must mean it is an EMS, which follows that it isn't Tobi's natural eye but rather a transplant.

He`s using Hashirama`s cell to regenerate.


Thirdly, the fact that Kurama thinks that Tobi is Madara must mean either Tobi posseses Madara's chakra or his own is almost indistinguishable from Madara's. The former could mean it is Obito through some trick, whilst the latter could point to Izuna.

Kurama never saw Tobi`s face, he just took tobi`s word that he`s madara.


Yeah Obito being a teenager is a problem. It doesn't make sense he would obtain a jump in abilities from being a nobody in to ninja to rival a Hokage.

He`s only used one technique vs the 4th, his phasing ability, which is overpowered as hell. He was a nobody back then, a nobody with an overpowered ability.


Apart from all this the reason I'm not conviced it is Obito is because it sounds too straightforward. I know people for ages speculated about Minato being Naruto's dad and it turned out to be true, but we are approaching the end of the manga now and it would be more dramatic a twist for everyone to be led down one path and then being wrong footed to the very end.

Absolutelly any and all evidence shown so far has pointed at Obito, the only way for Tobi to be anyone else would be Kishi wanting to troll.

[Sidnne]

Yeah Obito being a teenager is a problem. It doesn't make sense he would obtain a jump in abilities from being a nobody in to ninja to rival a Hokage. Even Sasuke, a genius from the start, has taken time to get to where he is without having one of his eyes gone and part of his body crushed.

He didn't even use any abilities aside from Kamui against Minato. It's not like he was super powerful, he was just able to avoid being hit for a while. Until Minato figured out his ability and kicked his ass.


Kurama spoke about Sasuke's chakra being more sinister than his own, like Madara's was. Yet in the case of Tobi he doesn't imply Tobi is like Madara but that he IS Madara.

That has nothing to do with Chakra. He thought that Tobi was Madara, only because Tobi called himself Madara, or at least allowed Minato to assume he could have been Madara.

Actually, come to think of it. Has Kurama ever actually referred to Tobi at all? We know he mentions Madara a few times, but how do we know he isn't talking about the real Madara each time?

[b1gdawg]

It wouldn't be the first time Kishi ignored previously stated "facts" about the sharingan.


Plus, why would Izuna wear a mask to hide his identity? It would be rather anti-climatic to hide his identity for this long, only to reveal him and have nobody recognize him or know who he is.


Honestly, if you're not convinced by this point that it is Obito, then it's going to take seeing his face and having Kakashi say "...O..bi...to...!?" Because Kishi has done everything possible to let us know who he is, except for show his face at this point.

When was the first time Kishi ignored facts about the sharingan. I completely forgot about the going blind thing, but now that i heard it, im 100% sold that it's NOT obito. I wish i see ur reaction when u finally realize it isn't Obito. You would really need to stfu.


Tobi wears a mask to hide his identity obviously. People didn't know he had a sharingan because of the mask, and that mask helped him in his fight with Konan, she thought he only had 1 sharingan, but he used that 2nd sharingan that no1 knew about to save his life with Izanagi.


What other Uchiha actually needs Eyes? Either some1 going blind for over using their mangekyou, or some1 who lost both their eyes. Hmmmm, i wonder who that might be.

[Sidnne]

Tobi wears a mask to hide his identity obviously. People didn't know he had a sharingan because of the mask, and that mask helped him in his fight with Konan, she thought he only had 1 sharingan, but he used that 2nd sharingan that no1 knew about to save his life with Izanagi.

lol. Yes, I know he wears it to hide his identity. Thank you for that valuable tid-bit. I didn't ask why Tobi wears a mask, I asked why Izuna would have a need to hide his identity from people who don't know what he looks like anyway. And why the need for Kishi to hide the indentity from the readers and make a huge mystery (while dropping hints that it's Obito all along the way) for 5+ years, when the readers wouldn't know or care about Izuna either.



What other Uchiha actually needs Eyes? Either some1 going blind for over using their mangekyou, or some1 who lost both their eyes. Hmmmm, i wonder who that might be.

Sasuke from the future??!!


It is absolutely hilarious that you get so upset every time someone talks about Obito. You even result to name-calling and direct insults over it. Too funny.

[UChessmaster]

When was the first time Kishi ignored facts about the sharingan. I completely forgot about the going blind thing, but now that i heard it, im 100% sold that it's NOT obito. I wish i see ur reaction when u finally realize it isn't Obito. You would really need to stfu.

I adressed this like 8 seconds ago :/

I love it how you shrug off any evidence for Obito as circunstancial but when the slightest (fake) hint at not Obito comes out you start handing out invitations to your "Obito is not Tobi!" party inmediately. It has been asked already and you haven`t answered at all, but just for fun i`ll ask again, what is your problem with Tobi being Obito? Did you bet your soul on it? Do you know Kishimoto? Are you actually Obito?

[DB_Hunter]

Why would Izuna wear a mask? Why would Obito wear a mask? Why would anyone wear a mask? They could all just out themselves and fight, I guess it's what ninja's do.

Kurama is always going on about chakra, not just by who people are. Besides, Tobi has shown regenerative abilities not just the use of Kamui. Pretty advanced stuff for a teenager on his own. Plus he knew how to get around the barrier protecting Konoha, something which must be in addition to having use of space-time justu as Minato commented on this despite knowing the nature of Tobi's phasing ability. He also knew a hell of a lot of stuff about the best time to get Kurama out of Kushina. All this can't have been done in the space of a few years, which is what makes it look suspicious or plot hole-ish.

[UChessmaster]

Why would Izuna wear a mask? Why would Obito wear a mask? Why would anyone wear a mask? They could all just out themselves and fight, I guess it's what ninja's do.

If i had a boulder crushing scar, i`d wear a mask.


Besides, Tobi has shown regenerative abilities not just the use of Kamui. Pretty advanced stuff for a teenager on his own.

Hashirama`s cells...


Plus he knew how to get around the barrier protecting Konoha, something which must be in addition to having use of space-time justu as Minato commented on this despite knowing the nature of Tobi's phasing ability.

He also has the ability to teleport, he teleported there.


He also knew a hell of a lot of stuff about the best time to get Kurama out of Kushina. All this can't have been done in the space of a few years, which is what makes it look suspicious or plot hole-ish.

The Uchiha clan has some strong tailed beast taiming powers, i`m sure that for an Uchiha, such knowledge is not that huge of a deal.


Tobi wears a mask to hide his identity obviously. People didn't know he had a sharingan because of the mask, and that mask helped him in his fight with Konan, she thought he only had 1 sharingan, but he used that 2nd sharingan that no1 knew about to save his life with Izanagi.

Tobi never had a second sharingan.

[DB_Hunter]

If i had a boulder crushing scar, i`d wear a mask.

Only that when we see his face when it is revealed in front of Sasuke and Konan there is no scar.


Hashirama`s cells...

OK so we add grave robbing, DNA extracting and biological mutations to this teenager's already impressive array of skills


He also has the ability to teleport, he teleported there.

Minato knew that yet he still commented on it, meaning like I said before it must require additional knowledge to get past the barrier not just teleporting.


The Uchiha clan has some strong tailed beast taiming powers, i`m sure that for an Uchiha, such knowledge is not that huge of a deal.

That may be, but it must hardly be bed time stories that are told to all the little Uchiha kids that everyone knows about them. Hypnosis to control Kurama is one thing, knowing about the seal's details is another.

[UChessmaster]

Only that when we see his face when it is revealed in front of Sasuke and Konan there is no scar.

There are scars on his face...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100627220011/naruto/images/thumb/4/4f/Madara_slightly_taking_off_his_mask.JPG/1000px-Madara_slightly_taking_off_his_mask.JPG


OK so we add grave robbing, DNA extracting and biological mutations to this teenager's already impressive array of skills

Grave robbing isn`t a skill, what impressive array? his sharingan techniques and his sharingan techniques? getting someone else`s techniques isn`t hard, he already transplanted his own techniques to Kakashi.


Minato knew that yet he still commented on it, meaning like I said before it must require additional knowledge to get past the barrier not just teleporting.

Minato didn`t know the exact way his technique works, he just took an educated guess. The whole point of that scene was to point out that Tobi wasn`t some random guy, not to say "Hey guys! this guy is too good, he can`t be Obito!". That said i admit he has a lot of knowledge, but that`s more of an unexplained plot and less of a plot-hole.


That may be, but it must hardly be bed time stories that are told to all the little Uchiha kids that everyone knows about them. Hypnosis to control Kurama is one thing, knowing about the seal's details is another.

Sasuke managed to cancel out the Kyuubi that one time with zero Uchiha training.

[Y]

I'd just like to note that Tobi derisively refers to Kakashi's Kamui as a borrowed power. If the person behind the mask is anyone except Obito Uchiha, this remark makes no sense, because he has Obito's eye and is thus also using a borrowed power.

[DB_Hunter]

There are scars on his face...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100627220011/naruto/images/thumb/4/4f/Madara_slightly_taking_off_his_mask.JPG/1000px-Madara_slightly_taking_off_his_mask.JPG

Those seem more like old man wrinkles than scars



Grave robbing isn`t a skill, what impressive array? his sharingan techniques and his sharingan techniques? getting someone else`s techniques isn`t hard, he already transplanted his own techniques to Kakashi.

It is a skill when it comes down to find the body of a long dead legendary ninja who, after being presumably pillaged by Orochimaru and who knows else, would have had his grave guarded or body moved to a secret location by Konoha to prevent further such actions. His array of techniques include his MS, his regeneration, his knowledge of seals, ability to extract a bijuu. That from what we have seen only, which we could assume isn't everything. Kakashi is a ninja of a thousand techniques but how many have we seen him use? What we see isn't necessarily all that a person has.


Minato didn`t know the exact way his technique works, he just took an educated guess.

Exactly. Even though he was right, lets disregard that for now. As far as Minato knew that was his best hunch, and despite thinking it was space-time jutsu he mentioned the ability to get past the barrier as something additional.



Sasuke managed to cancel out the Kyuubi that one time with zero Uchiha training.

I already mentioned hypnosis as being seperate from being able to deal in bijuu seals.


I'd just like to note that Tobi derisively refers to Kakashi's Kamui as a borrowed power. If the person behind the mask is anyone except Obito Uchiha, this remark makes no sense, because he has Obito's eyes and is thus also using a borrowed power.

It could be said by Izuna (if that is who Tobi is) in the context of an Uchiha speaking to a non-Uchiha.

[Sidnne]

DB, you're just reaching now. All the evidence points to Obito, you're just trying to come up with any reason imaginable to suggest otherwise.

[DB_Hunter]

I am trying, but I'm doing so without saying it can't be Obito. It may well be. I guess I'm playing devil's advocate to test the validity of the Obito theory. Of course the easiest explanation of this could be just to say it is Obito, but I still hold on to the idea it would be a more entertaining story if it turns out to be Izuna as then you could take it to the level of the Madara/Izuna pairing and how they lived vs the Itachi/Sasuke pairing and their interactions. Plus throw in a bit of politics and philosophy on how to deal with conflict, loyalty and philosophy and you have a more mature storyline than just some bitter sod who just went emo and wants to play out his fantasy on everyone.

Plus I haven't debated properly on these forums for years, and in a while I may not get the time to do any of that again.

[Y]

Anything sounds better when you try to dress one side up and mock the other one. Izuna Uchiha is a non-character with zero lines of dialogue in the entire series and a reveal of him would turn the entire proceedings into another generic Uchiha brother wankfest, while Obito's bonds of friendship slowly turning into bitter mistrust and hatred reflects the Naruto/Sasuke relationship.

[Sidnne]

I just don't see how Izuna fits in with the theme of the Naturoverse. That theme being "I've been abandoned/rejected/not accepted, nobody understands/loves/accepts me, but I'll show them!" It began with Naruto in the very first chapter, and has been replayed over and over again with Haku, Gaara, Kimmimaru, Sasuke, Nagato, Kabuto, even the Bijuu. Obito fits in with that theme.


Anything sounds better when you try to dress one side up and mock the other one. Izuna Uchiha is a non-character with zero lines of dialogue in the entire series and a reveal of him would turn the entire proceedings into another generic Uchiha brother wankfest, while Obito's bonds of friendship slowly turning into bitter mistrust and hatred reflects the Naruto/Sasuke relationship.

Jiraiya : Orochimaru, Kakashi : Obito, Naruto : Sasuke.

[Y]

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. The series really is all about different responses to that fundamental crisis.

[FireEmblem]

If it's Obito, then he's an even bigger b*tch than Sasuke has been. Sasuke looks like Gandhi compared to Tobito.

[DB_Hunter]

Jiraiya and Orochimaru, as well as Naruto and Sasuke, had their relationships turn sour slowly until they became opponents. Kakashi and Obito don't fit this mould, they both parted on strong bonds. Madara and Izuna vs Itachi and Sasuke shows the interactions between two sets of brothers. How both sets brought such destruction to Konoha and it is up to Sasuke to bascially to break that cycle of Uchiha hatred for Konoha, aided obviously by Naruto.

The Kakashi/Obtio theme seems too independent whereas the Izuna/Madara theme ties in with the fate of Naruto, the main character of the series. This fits in with the current theme of how to achieve peace in the Shinobi world where there are two options. Force, either softly via Tobi/Izuna or brute strength via Madara or Peaceful coexistance, the option fuelled by friendship and love championed by Naruto and being followed by the Kages.

[Sidnne]

Where has February been? He's usually right on point with calling people idiots for mentioning Obito. Him and b1gdawg would get along great.

[Y]

Bigdawg is a really obvious gimmick account btw.

[darkshadow]

Clearly everything points to Tobi being Obito, but I find there are just too many problems with this.
This post will be about why he shouldn't be obito.

First off there is a clear problem with obito being alive at all.
Yes perhaps he activated MS as he was dying, but he was still clearly crushed beforehand.
Now there is obviously something strange with tobi's body, so if they are one and the same we need a good explanation on how obito survived his injuries long enough to transition it into tobi's body; right now that shit is literally magic, unless you want to accept that some crippled near death teenager somehow crawled into oro's lair and injected himself with a syringe of that sweet senju juice.

Second, there is a huge, heck, gigantic problem with obito's death itself.
After minato roflstomped kakashi's assailants, does anyone believe they wouldn't recover the body?
In fact minato could've easily done this himself by just teleporting the rocks away, or just smashing them with his rasengan, or summon a toad etc..
And if he did do that, why would he hide that the body allegedly disappeared? Anything that happened here to circumvent this from happening is either insanely shitty writing or some deus ex machina that prevented minato from recovering the body at any timeframe.

Thirdly, obito and kakashi parted on strong bonds and unless something happened that turned him incredibly insane, which should be something substantial, I doubt rin's off-screen death would've caused him to want to murder the entire village of konoha twice.
Also, even if Rin was the cause of his insanity/hatred, she clearly didn't die right after obito, why the fuck would he hide that he survived? And if someone was nursing him in a comatose state or whatever, that brings us right back at point one.

Fourthly, controlling the kyuubi is more than just having sharingan, hashirama used some crazy sealing stuff to just unbind kyuubi from madara. If it was that easy, kakashi (or anyone with sharingan) should be able to do it too.

Fifthly, the oh so discussed power difference.
The argument I heard here over and over is: "oh tobi is just phasing out it's no biggie".
Problem with this stems all the way back to sasuke vs lee; even though sasuke could perfectly see lee, his body could not keep up at all.
Tobi kept up with minato, a genius hokage level ninja, whilst obito was nothing compared to kakashi; kakashi in turn could not keep up with minato.
Then there is all the prep to get the kyuubi etc..; all of this points to someone who had a lot of time.

This point however could be adressed if the kamui dimension does indeed have a different passage of time

Oh and extensiveuseofmangekyoumakesyoublindetc..

[Kensee]

Kind of echoing what others are saying, the first thing I thought after that last panel was, "Oh, now his face is messed up and no one will recognize him." [dick move #1]

I thought of Kakashi going blind from over use of that move as a potential dick move #2 but I really think Kishi forgot about that little rule and, well, Kakashi does have another eye. :rolleyes:

I'm rooting for Kakashi to take Tobi's eye and get EMS =D


Next weeks leak... what? no, i haven`t.

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/598/15

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-33-19/naruto/chapter-28.html

Kinda cool huh?

Naruto face smashing skills are second to none.

[Tofu #2]

Tobi never had a second sharingan.

??? How did he use izanagi against konan?

[Sidnne]

First off there is a clear problem with obito being alive at all.
Yes perhaps he activated MS as he was dying, but he was still clearly crushed beforehand.
Now there is obviously something strange with tobi's body, so if they are one and the same we need a good explanation on how obito survived his injuries long enough to transition it into tobi's body; right now that shit is literally magic, unless you want to accept that some crippled near death teenager somehow crawled into oro's lair and injected himself with a syringe of that sweet senju juice.

We've seen plenty of characters survive worse in this manga. Neji lived with a 3 foot diameter hole in his chest.


Fourthly, controlling the kyuubi is more than just having sharingan, hashirama used some crazy sealing stuff to just unbind kyuubi from madara. If it was that easy, kakashi (or anyone with sharingan) should be able to do it too.

I don't think it's just having the sharingan, I think you have to be an Uchiha. That may have been stated or implied somewhere, I can't remember though.


Fifthly, the oh so discussed power difference.
The argument I heard here over and over is: "oh tobi is just phasing out it's no biggie".
Problem with this stems all the way back to sasuke vs lee; even though sasuke could perfectly see lee, his body could not keep up at all.
Tobi kept up with minato, a genius hokage level ninja, whilst obito was nothing compared to kakashi; kakashi in turn could not keep up with minato.
Then there is all the prep to get the kyuubi etc..; all of this points to someone who had a lot of time.

At no point was Tobi ever able to keep up with Minato. Minato was way too fast for him and it took less than a chapter for Minato to kick his ass. Minato also sealed him from being able to control the Kyuubi.


Obviously we are going to get a flashback to explain how Obito survived, why he is seeking revenge, and what happened to him in between then and now. Kakashi will no doubt ask him these questions, and they will all be answered in the next few chapters, unless Kishi jumps back to the kage fight or Sasuke and Oro's Incredible Journey just to keep us waiting.

[UChessmaster]

??? How did he use izanagi against konan?

HASHIRAMA CELLS!!!!!

[Sidnne]

HASHIRAMA CELLS!!!!!

He did have a 2nd sharingan. But, that's not really surprising considering he has a room full of sharingans, which is why he wanted to help Itachi kill the Uchiha. He obviously collected all of those eyes that night.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-57473-8/naruto/chapter-510.html

[UChessmaster]

He did have a 2nd sharingan. But, that's not really surprising considering he has a room full of sharingans, which is why he wanted to help Itachi kill the Uchiha. He obviously collected all of those eyes that night.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-57473-8/naruto/chapter-510.html

Fair enough, he does has a second one, that said, http://www.mangapanda.com/93-57473-10/naruto/chapter-510.html. He also used the 1st DNA.


First off there is a clear problem with obito being alive at all.

Is not a problem, in a world FULL of ninjas that can do all kind of random techniques, is not a stretch that one of these ninjas found a half dead Uchiha and saw the benefits of having a sharingan on his side.


Second, there is a huge, heck, gigantic problem with obito's death itself.

I love this argument, very well thought out, that said, weren`t they at war at that point? it would be waaaaaay to risky to go into enemy territory to get one dead body under a pile of rocks, and if you think the 4th should get his body, what about the potential thousands of bodies left behind, should he pick those up too?


Thirdly, obito and kakashi parted on strong bonds and unless something happened that turned him incredibly insane

This is exactly what i think happened.


Fourthly, controlling the kyuubi is more than just having sharingan, hashirama used some crazy sealing stuff to just unbind kyuubi from madara. If it was that easy, kakashi (or anyone with sharingan) should be able to do it too.

As i said, Sasuke handled the Kyuubi with ease, i`m presuming that the whole Kyuubi incident happened about 2 or 3 years after Obito`s "death", is not too hard to believe he learned some tailed beast manipulation in that time period right?


Fifthly, the oh so discussed power difference.

Naruto did more growth than Obito/Tobi in like... a year? Obito also knew about the 4th fighting style, being his pupil and all.

[Sidnne]

Fair enough, he does has a second one, that said, http://www.mangapanda.com/93-57473-10/naruto/chapter-510.html. He also used the 1st DNA.

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-57473-12/naruto/chapter-510.html

Danzou also had the 1st's DNA, and had one of those wood-man faces in his shoulder. So it doesn't seem like it was that difficult to get, since they were also using it to clone Yamato's and Zetsu's.

Perhaps, the battle where Obito lost his eye happened to occur directly above one of Oro's hideouts, and when the Rock ninjas dropped all the rocks, the ground collapsed and he landed in Oro's lair. Anything could have happened from there.

[UChessmaster]

Yeah, there`s probably a ninja mall somewhere that sells the 1st cells.

[darkshadow]

We've seen plenty of characters survive worse in this manga. Neji lived with a 3 foot diameter hole in his chest.

3 foot? I think you mean 3 inch; and no we haven't seen anyone survive anything worse, obito literally had more than half of his body utterly pulverised. Lee hardly recovered from a broken leg.


I don't think it's just having the sharingan, I think you have to be an Uchiha. That may have been stated or implied somewhere, I can't remember though.

This hasn't been stated anywhere.



At no point was Tobi ever able to keep up with Minato. Minato was way too fast for him and it took less than a chapter for Minato to kick his ass. Minato also sealed him from being able to control the Kyuubi.

I say he kept up, otherwise minato's first stab would've murdered him




Is not a problem, in a world FULL of ninjas that can do all kind of random techniques, is not a stretch that one of these ninjas found a half dead Uchiha and saw the benefits of having a sharingan on his side.


And this is exactly why the body had to be recovered, even if there were no personal sentiments, the uchiha body should've been recovered or disposed of properly to protect secrets.



I love this argument, very well thought out, that said, weren`t they at war at that point? it would be waaaaaay to risky to go into enemy territory to get one dead body under a pile of rocks, and if you think the 4th should get his body, what about the potential thousands of bodies left behind, should he pick those up too?

That's why I said at any timeframe, he could've gone back after the war was over, as the should've.
And yes he should've personally done it, since obito was his pupil.
And thirdly, it wouldn't be risky at all, minato already disposed of the enemies in that area, him teleporting the rocks away/destroying them or getting a toad to move them would literally take less then 1 minute; remember how he teleported that gigantic tailed beast bomb away? Yeah that took 2 seconds.



As i said, Sasuke handled the Kyuubi with ease, i`m presuming that the whole Kyuubi incident happened about 2 or 3 years after Obito`s "death", is not too hard to believe he learned some tailed beast manipulation in that time period right?

Sasuke supressed some leaking sealed chakra, that can impossibly be compared to fully mindcontrolling a fully powered kyuubi. Remember that the kyuubi had all of its power back then, not half.


Naruto did more growth than Obito/Tobi in like... a year? Obito also knew about the 4th fighting style, being his pupil and all.

What is this referring to? Because naruto was training with jiraiya for 2.5 years and he still had to team up with sakura to take the bell from Kakashi.

[Sidnne]

3 foot? I think you mean 3 inch; and no we haven't seen anyone survive anything worse, obito literally had more than half of his body utterly pulverised. Lee hardly recovered from a broken leg.

Sorry, I didn't personally measure the hole. And Lee is irrelevant, because he's a drunk.



I say he kept up, otherwise minato's first stab would've murdered him

So... not murdered by Minato's first stab = super powered beyond belief. Got it.

How do you know that Tobi didn't already have his head in the other dimension before Minato even turned around? As we saw in the previous chapter, he is capable of having only portions of his body phased out. He could have had everything except for the hand he grabbed Minato with phased into the other dimension already.

Other than not being killed by the first stab, Tobi was completely and utterly dominated in that fight.


And this is exactly why the body had to be recovered, even if there were no personal sentiments, the uchiha body should've been recovered or disposed of properly to protect secrets.

That's why I said at any timeframe, he could've gone back after the war was over, as the should've.
And yes he should've personally done it, since obito was his pupil.
And thirdly, it wouldn't be risky at all, minato already disposed of the enemies in that area, him teleporting the rocks away/destroying them or getting a toad to move them would literally take less then 1 minute; remember how he teleported that gigantic tailed beast bomb away? Yeah that took 2 seconds.

Well, maybe that's why Obito is mad then. He is butthurt because nobody came back for him.

[Y]

I don't get the fixation on Minato coming back for the body. There hasn't been a single scene of anyone recovering corpses in this comic, everyone would have assumed Obito's body was crushed into a red smear by the rock slide, etc. There are like 40,000 dead ninjas in this current war, do you think a major part of the war effort was recovering all their corpses? Plus, if we assume it is Obito and he teleported away, when someone came back to recover the body they would have found a lot of his blood and crushed up skin/bones and assumed that grotesque scene was all that remained of him.

[Tofu #2]

I don't think it's just having the sharingan, I think you have to be an Uchiha. That may have been stated or implied somewhere, I can't remember though.

No because when danzou revealed his sharingans and hashirama head, tobi suggested Danzou was trying to gain control of the 9tails


Sorry, I didn't personally measure the hole. And Lee is irrelevant, because he's a drunk.

Are you a fucking troll? You didn't personally measure the hole but you originally state it's a 3 foot hole?

Shit you guys are getting pretty worked up about this. Next week is just gonna be a 5 page thread of I TOLD YOU SO

[Y]

Are you a fucking troll? You didn't personally measure the hole but you originally state it's a 3 foot hole?

Is THIS a troll? The point is, people in comic books survive "fatal" wounds all the fucking time. Remember Chouji chowing down on the "you will die if you eat this" pill? Remember how many times Orochimaru was chopped in half? Remember how people in this comic have died and been returned to life multiple times through several different means? The point is that Obito's body disappearing under a rock slide is way less final than you'd assume, especially since "wounded person is separated from Our Heroes and presumed dead" is like the classical "not dead" fakeout.

[DB_Hunter]

We really are not going to solve this conclusively one way or another until we find out for sure, which I would say kudos to Kishimoto for writing it in a way that has given rise to two strong arguments.

In addition to the points made above, I would once again say that the continuing presence of Madara with the departure of the other Edo Tensei fighters would make no sense if he does not have a continuing influence on the story apart from hax powers. We know the Kage's can't defeat him now, the only way he could go is if he finds emotional peace. That sort of thing could happen if his brother were still about and he could get some connection from him. Unless of course Kakashi/Tobi Kamui him to another dimension or Madara dissapears after achieving peace in a meeting with Sasuke, his Uchiha heir.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

We really are not going to solve this conclusively one way or another until we find out for sure, which I would say kudos to Kishimoto for writing it in a way that has given rise to two strong arguments.

Yeah I was certain it was Obito till I read the last chapter where he foreshadowed it hard as a motha. Then that tripped me up cause it read too much like a set up for the ol' bait n switch.


Anyway I like how Kakashi used one of his three? four? remaining kamui and Naruto repaid his golden opportunity by trying to take out the mask... a target further away than his body was so if there's a case to be made for how far away he was that's why it didn't do critical damage to his entire fucking head.

Kindof bothers me how we only really get to see Kakashi's true potential as a shinobi in the Gaiden arc. Almost everywhere else except the first few arcs he is just simply "Sharingan Kakashi". Its like fine use it to make your Raikiri more accurate but using it in every fight to the point where you're killing yourself with it gets a bit old after the first.... idk... death?

[Sidnne]

Are you a fucking troll? You didn't personally measure the hole but you originally state it's a 3 foot hole?

No, genius. The point is that Neji had a large, fatal hole in his body that he survived. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that I was not being exact when I said "3 foot" and just using hyperbole to emphasize that the hole was large. I said "I didn't personally measure the hole" as a way of mocking darkshadow for being literal about the size of a hole in the body of a comic book character, which certainly is impossible for one to measure.

I can't believe I even have to explain this.

[UChessmaster]

Look guys, this is a fun discussion and all, but are people seriously doubting the possibility of a dying character surviving in a manga about ninjas where everything is possible!?

[DB_Hunter]

I guess people may feel if characters had to survive they would have ones like Itachi and Jiraiya, not emo gits like Obito potentially.

[b1gdawg]

Tobi never had a second sharingan.

really? howd he use Izanagi then? he has a wall full of sharingans, u can see that when hes looking over Danzo's dead body.

[Sidnne]

really? howd he use Izanagi then? he has a wall full of sharingans, u can see that when hes looking over Danzo's dead body.

We covered this already. You would have known that had you read the entire thread and not jumped at the first opportunity to argue with someone. But, thanks anyway.

[b1gdawg]

But, thanks anyway.

ur welcome

[Sidnne]

Awww, see? You're learning manners and civility. I'm proud of you.

[viperwasp]

I don't care who it is as long as it makes sense and is a big reveal. To be honest I don't like the prospects of it being Obito or Madaras brother. I would not understand the amount of hype and such... I want it to be something shocking and unexpected... and bring something new to the story. A twist! But theres not to many people in my opinion that could fit that bill. But ignoring ALL past and current evidence if it was someone like the 1st or second hokage which is generally cannot be with what we know. That would be a big reveal. Like maybe all this time one of the most praised and trusted hero Ninja from the past turns out to be evil or bad etc. But there would have to be plot to go along with it. It has to make sense!

Pain was an awesome character and I liked the secrets that went along with him! At first you thought he was the head of akatsuki then there was the whole thing about none of the bodies being him. And the whole secret to his abilities. The mysteriousness of the Rinnigan which in my opinion has yet to be truly explained. Then you had the whole back story and his involvement with jiraiya and it all concluded with the story jiraiya wrote and the predictions of the great toad sage or whatever the thing was called.

I don't want the whole pain arc to be more special then this one! Tobi is at the moment the main villain in basically all of Naruto. Even though we all sure he won't be the final villain. Pain killed a main character... Tobi feels like he has done almost nothing in comparison even though he personally set a lot of things up. Heck without Kabuto I am sure the United Ninja Army would have mopped the floor with Tobi by now... Kabuto was more then 50% of the force in Tobis army. Then again without Kabuto Itachi would not have been brought back. But itachi mainly defeated Kabuto so...

So in final I am saying that whoever Tobi is... Obito or not... it has to be more then just a person who he is... the reasoning behind everything has to go somewhere and I expect a nice twist! And it being Obito is silly and retarded if it's a... Obito disliked war and people dying so this is his answer to it all. He went emo or got corrupted with hatred just like Sasuke and or pain kind of. Do something cool like Obito merged with the other half of dark zetsu or something like that and have good plot behind it. Even if Tobi is not the final villan he needs to have more impact on the characters and plot then pain did... right now Tobi does not. And if it's simply Madaras bother or Obito without something smart to go along with it... then he might as well be a random ninja with no purpose.

I hate the other speculations about future sasuke etc... lol But at least they want it to be more then a weak old forgotten character who survived became strong and manipulative and learned to hate the world etc. It's been done before inside and outside of naruto... if it kishi does go that route with the story please make it more interesting! Surprise us!

[boostingwild]

I don't care who it is as long as it makes sense and is a big reveal. To be honest I don't like the prospects of it being Obito or Madaras brother. I would not understand the amount of hype and such... I want it to be something shocking and unexpected... and bring something new to the story. A twist! But theres not to many people in my opinion that could fit that bill. But ignoring ALL past and current evidence if it was someone like the 1st or second hokage which is generally cannot be with what we know. That would be a big reveal. Like maybe all this time one of the most praised and trusted hero Ninja from the past turns out to be evil or bad etc. But there would have to be plot to go along with it. It has to make sense!

Pain was an awesome character and I liked the secrets that went along with him! At first you thought he was the head of akatsuki then there was the whole thing about none of the bodies being him. And the whole secret to his abilities. The mysteriousness of the Rinnigan which in my opinion has yet to be truly explained. Then you had the whole back story and his involvement with jiraiya and it all concluded with the story jiraiya wrote and the predictions of the great toad sage or whatever the thing was called.

I don't want the whole pain arc to be more special then this one! Tobi is at the moment the main villain in basically all of Naruto. Even though we all sure he won't be the final villain. Pain killed a main character... Tobi feels like he has done almost nothing in comparison even though he personally set a lot of things up. Heck without Kabuto I am sure the United Ninja Army would have mopped the floor with Tobi by now... Kabuto was more then 50% of the force in Tobis army. Then again without Kabuto Itachi would not have been brought back. But itachi mainly defeated Kabuto so...

So in final I am saying that whoever Tobi is... Obito or not... it has to be more then just a person who he is... the reasoning behind everything has to go somewhere and I expect a nice twist! And it being Obito is silly and retarded if it's a... Obito disliked war and people dying so this is his answer to it all. He went emo or got corrupted with hatred just like Sasuke and or pain kind of. Do something cool like Obito merged with the other half of dark zetsu or something like that and have good plot behind it. Even if Tobi is not the final villan he needs to have more impact on the characters and plot then pain did... right now Tobi does not. And if it's simply Madaras bother or Obito without something smart to go along with it... then he might as well be a random ninja with no purpose.

I hate the other speculations about future sasuke etc... lol But at least they want it to be more then a weak old forgotten character who survived became strong and manipulative and learned to hate the world etc. It's been done before inside and outside of naruto... if it kishi does go that route with the story please make it more interesting! Surprise us!

I always read here and never comment...but

I think it would be cool if we find out that it is indeed orichimaru in sasukes body from the future. On sasukes trip with orichimaru he takes control of his body and gets the perfect vessel he always wanted. Now since he is from future he is trying to manipulate sasukes from now because in future sasuke is the one who actually defeats him. So he came back in time to stop that and gain control of 9 tails so it won't happen. And when itachi showed sasuke the visions he also warned sasuke about this and that's why sasuke summoned orichimaru and that's the twist.

[UChessmaster]

EDIT: Double post?

[UChessmaster]

I think it would be cool if we find out that it is indeed orichimaru in sasukes body from the future.

... on rollerblades hahahahahahahaahha

[Dark Dragon]

You guys should probably save some of that energy.

Another likely scenario is that this week will be about Sasuke or the Kages and we won't find out until next week.

[DB_Hunter]

Nah I think they will reveal it next week. Something as huge as this needs build up that can't be done in one chapter alone. Unless of course they switch the scenes you mentioned and Sasuke is benig told by this know it all dude who Tobi is or Madara reveals what he knows about him.

Which err... kind of negates my own point...

[MFauli]

Guys, I´m back. :)

Just caught up 8 weeks of Naruto. While I don´t like the flashy fighting (Kakashi about Kamui: "I can only use it a few more times" - erm, okay, you actually used to be dead tired after using it only once, lol), is good to see actual progress.

Best thing to have happened is, of course, Orochimaru´s revival.

[unandpw]

Tobi is actually Moegi. It makes sense if you think (http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/303/987/794.png) about it.

[deadlydreamx]

What ever happened to the good ol' rumor from back in the day when Udon was the number 1 suspect... lol

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

i had to google that shit.... fuck you. laughed a silly laugh tho when i saw the picture with the snot coming out

[immortal_king]

TOBI IS...

Leaked panel from unreleased chapter below - Take care not to spoil
http://forums.gotwoot.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1339&d=1346224153

That's all I gotta say.

[UChessmaster]

I believe that picture is fake.

Welcome to the forums!