Muv-Luv Alternative - Total Eclipse

[David75]

From MyAnimeList (http://myanimelist.net/anime/11021/):
Since 1973, an invasion of aliens known as BETA upon Earth is driving human civilization into nearly collapse. Facing an enormous mass of enemy force, mankind has developed large humanoid arms called as Tactical Surface Fighters and deployed them to its defense lines through out the world. However, all those efforts could slow down defeats but could not stop BETA, and mankind is forced to abandon major area of the Eurasian Continent. For 30 years, mankind is bogged down in an endless war against BETA without any hopes of victory.


[Commie] Muv-Luv Alternative - Total Eclipse - 01 [8EA15F90].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=327908)



---------------------------------------------------------------------

I've tested that one since I was willing to try the muv-luv VNs.
I do not know when/where total eclipse is in that universe, so my judgment is purely based on that first ep as I know nothing else from that.

Thing is, that ep rubbed me the wrong way.
Starting with the alternate universe back in 1967 that is an earth more advanced than we are. I don't know why, it did not work at all with me, when it shouldn't. It is in fact a good idea since you can base your culture/geopolitics and most everydaylife things on reality and just alter what you need to. An easier setup in a way. Also one where you're not totally excluded. I guess it is also useful to have your players/customers/viewers feel it's almost there...

Then there's that all girls squad. I understand it's better for sales, but it didn't work well with me again.

Then there's that enemy, very basic one, much like a bacteriae working together against mankind?

Then there's that awful CG, colors are bad, textures are bad, kinetics are bad. God, use some art if you do not have budget!

I was not able to like any of the characters
Fanservice was awful too

I'll watch ep 2 and hope it'll be better by then. But I might not go further. Not meaning I will discard the games, as the experience might be entirely different.


Commie subtitling was under par to me, at least fonts, colors and placement.

[Kraco]

I can't really commend this either. Alternate history is really not such a big deal, and the kind of technological advancement we saw could be explained in any manner of ways. What comes to the squad made out of young girls only, I hope the explanation is simply that all the guys and older soldiers (men and women) have already perished in the fires of war! When you have got little left, you use what you can. These things, so far, didn't bother me. The thing that bothered was the ages old problem with mecha shows in general: Nothing we saw so far indicates giant humanoid shaped machines should fare any better against the enemy than more traditional weapons of war. I wish we had actually seen the enemy better because right now I only want to know what makes them so tough and unstoppable. I sure hope it's something plausible...

Lastly but not leastly: Where the hell are all the nukes? You'd think they would rather deploy them if the other alternative is extinction. The Beta seem to move in big hordes, so tactical nukes would wipe them out quite smoothly. If a nuke is ineffective, humanity should be in a hurry to build space ships to leave the planet. No mecha is going to defeat an enemy capable of withstanding a nuclear strike (unless we go Gurren-Lagann level, of course).

[Xelbair]

Alternative history - we don't know if nukes have been discovered.

[shinta|hikari]

@Kraco - All those points are explained very well in the Muv Luv Alternative visual novel. I have no idea if those will make it in this spin off though. I can PM you the information if you wish.

[Archangel]

...Gunbuster?

[Kraco]

@Kraco - All those points are explained very well in the Muv Luv Alternative visual novel. I have no idea if those will make it in this spin off though. I can PM you the information if you wish.

Thanks for the offer, but this was just the first episode. I'll give the director and producer a chance.

[isso]

I couldn't see the episode in VLC.... Is there any other version of episode 1?

[Kraco]

I couldn't see the episode in VLC.... Is there any other version of episode 1?

I watched the HorribleSubs (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=327899) version. However, if you can't play a regular anime episode these days, you ought to update your codecs/player.

[isso]

Thank you, the HS version worked just fine, first time I experienced such a problem :)

[Kraco]

Episode 2 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=329951)





- - - -- - - -






I felt like this ep was a bit better than the first. Even if it was partly due to the preview suggesting things could get real from the third ep on. Still, I was annoyed by the poor performance of the military and on the other hand the less than convincing threat by the beta. I wasn't trained to combat space monsters, that's true, but still it's exceedingly sad the trainee girls fought better than most of the real soldiers - especially when the girls still weren't anywhere near good. The laser beta were the only convincingly deadly enemies and also explained why we aren't seeing attack planes but rather only ground hugging flying. However, nothing else made much sense military wise, except the very last artillery barrage, the likes of which we should have been seeing all the time during this fight, not only when the humans were losing.

[Archangel]

This show is hilarious.

[David75]

Episode 2 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=329951)





- - - -- - - -






I felt like this ep was a bit better than the first. Even if it was partly due to the preview suggesting things could get real from the third ep on. Still, I was annoyed by the poor performance of the military and on the other hand the less than convincing threat by the beta. I wasn't trained to combat space monsters, that's true, but still it's exceedingly sad the trainee girls fought better than most of the real soldiers - especially when the girls still weren't anywhere near good. The laser beta were the only convincingly deadly enemies and also explained why we aren't seeing attack planes but rather only ground hugging flying. However, nothing else made much sense military wise, except the very last artillery barrage, the likes of which we should have been seeing all the time during this fight, not only when the humans were losing.

Same feeling.

I was glad HS version was censored.

I'm a bit surprised mankind is focusing so much on gundam like machines when there are so many other ways to fight. Not that I know what should be done, but it seems taking years to train pilots for so little efficiency is a tad strange.

After all, those BETA use rather simple but efficient attack methods with specialized species.

Seems like laser type are overkill. They are quite small compared to other, but are very precise AND shoot powerful lasers. Those 2 specs give them incredible advantage as it's difficult to shoot them since they're small and they can shoot you easily.

Also, if BETA can have such lasers, why can't mankind reverse engineer some of the tech involved, even if biological?
A basic idea would be to interface a brainless lasertype... even if it works for some hours only.

[Kraco]

Yeah. I bet you could manufacture tens of thousands of AT mines for the same price as one of these mecha units with all of its accessories and whatnot. These betas seemed to be blindly charging forward, so they would have happily stomped into a minefield. The mechas were carrying 30mm autocannons, if memory serves, which means a simple and cheap 50mm gun would have been highly effective and quite cheap even to leave behind when retreating. But most of all they should have used indirect fire in the form of heavy artillery and rocket launchers all the time. You can shell targets accurately from tens of kilometers away, that is, from distances far greater than a land based laser cannon can achieve because of its need of a direct line of fire. So, there's actually little need to engage these dull beasts eye to eye, until the remains reach the last line of defense. All you'd need would be some brave individuals hidden in line of sight to give the target coordinates, unless you wanted to randomly bombard them.

But then again, this is a mecha series, so who am I kidding? I didn't actually expect anything like that, but I sure expected the veterans to fight better than the girls and the betas to be much more fearsome.

[Xelbair]

I find the series so far really good.
AT mines could work well vs Destroyer class, but tanks on the other hand would be useless due to their frontal armor.
Artilery strikes require coords - and we don't know how betas are detecting threats - visual targeting is a 100% sure for laser class, but other classes might use something else(heat for example) that would make scouts useless.

[Yukimura]

But then again, this is a mecha series, so who am I kidding?
Exactly, if you're going to watch a mecha show you can't let yourself go down the 'why do they use mecha instead of X, that makes no sense' thought process. The question will never be answered satisfactorily in universe because mecha are a cause of their universe not an effect. It's best to think of them in the same vein as Superman or magical girls or Godzilla. Their existence and properties must be be taken for granted as is within the universe otherwise the universe itself must be rejected. The fact that they are or seem to be technologically feasible is a misdirection as they will never be any more any more bound to reality than Santa and his flying reindeer.


I didn't actually expect anything like that, but I sure expected the veterans to fight better than the girls
We must never forget, 08th MS team is the exception not the rule, in mecha, the younger you are the higher your maximum potential fighting ability is. Veteran mecha pilots can at best fight younger pilots to a stalemate after their first skirmish which the vet may win to show he's not just another grunt, however young pilots always have a fair or better shot at blowing veterans out of the sky regardless of how much actual experience they have.

tl;dr mecha are not built to suit the universe they inhabit, the universe they inhabit is built to give the mecha something to do, they are a cause of the universe, not an effect of the universe.


Actual content:
It seems that the TSF's fulfill a similar role to attack helicopters in our world focusing on agility and mission flexibility over payload size or speed. This is probably the only way to survive close up contact with the laser class. I look forward to seeing what they come up with to actually stand up to the BETA once things get real.

[Ryllharu]

I can kind of appreciate the fact that that BETA simply use mixed-unit tactics to completely trample humanity. The Destroyers absolutely tear through front line, but as a trade off for that durability, are weak from behind. Yet they in turn are covered by mid-rear forces, the Lasers. Leaping over Destroyers to get at the Lasers would be effective, if not for the third type, which are moderately strong attackers with good mobility.

This is pretty much the way a real alien invasion would go down. If they're advanced enough to cross star systems to get to Earth, they're advanced enough to crush humanity completely. The BETA have overwhelming numbers on their side too. We can't even leave the Solar System, and there are so few stories out there were a race advanced enough to do so doesn't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_Not_Taken_(short_story)) also have the means to dominate Earth.

Still, how or why they're so strong doesn't particularly matter. All that matters is that they push humanity to the brink.

Watching this episode, I also wouldn't say it's a matter of the girls fighting better than the veterans. Everyone sucks against the BETA. Our viewpoint is just focused on them longer. Yui loses a comrade every couple minutes, and that's not even in real time given the cutaways to her uncle, the regular forces, or whoever. The majority of the time where they're surviving, they're retreating at full speed.

[Kraco]

Watching this episode, I also wouldn't say it's a matter of the girls fighting better than the veterans.

It's true they lost members all the time, especially to the laser class (which is why I call the laser class the only really believably tough opponent). However, once they landed in the previous episode, they kept fighting at approximately that same area for a long time, all the way to engaging a whole pile of enemies in melee combat. They only started to lose when the first wave of beta wasn't the only wave, after all. However, the regular military (maybe I shouldn't call them veterans as there's no guarantee of that, but nonetheless they weren't trainees anymore) got simply overrun by the first melee betas.

Since I accept the existence of mecha in a mecha universe, my remaining problem is twofold: Don't try to make the enemies look stronger by making humans look stupid and ineffectual. Don't make n00b main characters look special by making real soldiers far too weak. Neither of these errors in the eps were by any means unavoidable.


We must never forget, 08th MS team is the exception not the rule, in mecha, the younger you are the higher your maximum potential fighting ability is. Veteran mecha pilots can at best fight younger pilots to a stalemate after their first skirmish which the vet may win to show he's not just another grunt, however young pilots always have a fair or better shot at blowing veterans out of the sky regardless of how much actual experience they have.

That's certainly true for great many shows, but it's hardly a universal rule. More often than not it's simply a result of the fact the main characters tend to be young for the sake of the younger audiences. But even in something like Gundam 00 the sheer superiority of the machine and experience seemed to be more important than any other factor (aside from the main character status). My favourite character Ali showed that multiple times, not only in the beginning. He was an old man for action by anime standards, yet kicked more ass than pretty much anybody.

[Xelbair]

It's true they lost members all the time, especially to the laser class (which is why I call the laser class the only really believably tough opponent). However, once they landed in the previous episode, they kept fighting at approximately that same area for a long time, all the way to engaging a whole pile of enemies in melee combat. They only started to lose when the first wave of beta wasn't the only wave, after all. However, the regular military (maybe I shouldn't call them veterans as there's no guarantee of that, but nonetheless they weren't trainees anymore) got simply overrun by the first melee betas.

Since I accept the existence of mecha in a mecha universe, my remaining problem is twofold: Don't try to make the enemies look stronger by making humans look stupid and ineffectual. Don't make n00b main characters look special by making real soldiers far too weak. Neither of these errors in the eps were by any means unavoidable.

That's certainly true for great many shows, but it's hardly a universal rule. More often than not it's simply a result of the fact the main characters tend to be young for the sake of the younger audiences. But even in something like Gundam 00 the sheer superiority of the machine and experience seemed to be more important than any other factor (aside from the main character status). My favourite character Ali showed that multiple times, not only in the beginning. He was an old man for action by anime standards, yet kicked more ass than pretty much anybody.

Remember that they weren't attacked back there by either laser class, nor the destroyer class - just the fast grunts surrounded them.

[shinta|hikari]

They were all overrun and almost wiped out. The only reason the non-trainees seem to have died faster is because they simply are not supposed to have screentime. In the small clips, they do manage to kill Beta too, but they eventually died. That is all those scenes are saying. The speed or ease of their defeat compared to the trainees are illusions created by screentime.

[Kraco]

You want me to call the direction bad, then, if it gives a totally wrong impression? That makes little different to what I was complaining about, because I was complaining about the show making people/things look too weak or too strong. Don't show the regulars at all if you are only going to show them die like weeds whereas the trainees are shown to put up a surprisingly decent fight, considering how terribly efficient the beta so far have been (they have even taken over Finland, judging by the map, so they should be the most muthafucking asskicking aliens ever to invade Earth).

[shinta|hikari]

You were complaining about realism, or the skill level of the characters.

I am saying that is due to bad direction.

[Yukimura]

@Kraco You're right about Prince Ali, he was on a whole other level like Char Aznable or Zechs Marquise. Where I was focusing my attention was on front line soldiers who may show up for an ep or two but aren't major characters (e.g. the captain of Louise's squad in Gundam 00 S2 who got pixy dust pwned), those are the ones that my 'rule' most applies to. Season long nemeses have to follow different rules.

Anyway, after watching ep 2 I can see where you all were coming from a lot better. The BETA's tactics are rather brutal, but the way the Japanese are fighting back seems somewhat wasteful in manpower and equipment unless that's all the choice left to them, which is quite plausible.
Bringing the rain from off shore or artillery positions seems like the only viable way to stem the Beta's advance as they don't seem to get tired or slowed by the environment. Fighting them close up on the other hand seems like suicide because of their horrifying numerical advantage. However, if you split them into manageable groups and could avoid/take out the Lasers it seems like a given finite supply of BETA should be susceptible to the skillful application of the maneuverability and precision offered by a TSF (though TSF's could probably stand to pack a bigger punch). I think in the case of the first two eps Japan just got overwhelmed by sheer numbers and lack of terrain to fall back along while whittling away at the enemy with a scorched earth style artillery barrage.

The BETA have an advantage that makes the tactical capabilities of humanity pointless. They don't seem to be bound by remotely comparable resource limitations. I suspect that a Laser class can't run out of ammo, that a Destroyer class can run flat out and trample anything in it's path indefinitely longer than humans could spend time putting impediments in front of them, and that those scorpion things can rip things apart indefinitely longer than humans could put things in their midst to rip apart. All that is compounded by the fact that there are just way more BETA than human military people/machines.

[shinta|hikari]

I think the reason they were using TSFs before they decided to bombard in that battle was because they wanted to stem the advance of the Beta and protect the city. They probably did not correctly estimate the number that invaded. If they knew that the defensive line could not be held anyway, they should have just bombarded the enemy from the start. That would whittle the Beta down, but it won't buy time because the Beta don't seem to give a shit if they are being hit. They only pause to kill and eat people.

[Kraco]

Right. The Beta had already wasted Eurasia and the Japanese were pulling their punches in order to save some buildings? Well, actually it's possible all of their artillery and real troops had been placed 100 km from this area (to welcome the beta much earlier) and had already done all they could but still so many beta got through. In that case what happened here could be a bit more plausible. Maybe all the regular troops we saw were also second rate men not fit for the front lines, and thus fell so readily.

Still, all this wouldn't change the fact what we saw was a terrible waste of human lives and precious equipment. I hope they made some changes in the leadership during the jumped years.

[David75]

They were not able to evaluate how massive the attack was.
They probably did not have much forces available anyway.
It also seems they needed some help from other countries/forces, which takes time.

They did not want to bombard at first, because of the collateral that remains high even when you try to evacuate the region. There's also the fact you ruin such a city that Kyoto is.
But at some point, it was that or totally losing the region.

They probably could have bombarded an hour before, but many soldiers would have died with the BETAs. The city would have suffered minimal damage though.
But the choice was similar to the one presented to Yui. They were not able to do it at first, but were forced to in the end.

[Kraco]

They probably could have bombarded an hour before, but many soldiers would have died with the BETAs. The city would have suffered minimal damage though.

No. The idea is to organize the battlefield so that you bombard as much as possible before the troops mingle - which they actually never should do, but since the beta rely on melee so much, it's unavoidable. However, the fact the beta march forward single-mindedly would make it infinitely easy to bombard them continuously and without a break as long as you have ground behind you and ammo in stores. Artillery fire is quite accurate as long as you have scouts - and there were plenty here with very sophisticated equipment in the form of the mecha. They might even have been able to use some dummy, remote controlled automated observers (cameras, that is) since we don't actually know if the Beta would have cared or noticed such at all, to go out of their way to destroy them.

The other thing you said reminded me of the fact I never want to see another n00b soldier ignoring orders for her own petty satisfaction.

[Buffalobiian]

Fuck. So the only character that I like (the last one to be eaten) died, and now I'm left with Yui who is just shit. She kept her cool, but that's about it.


I'm a bit surprised mankind is focusing so much on gundam like machines when there are so many other ways to fight. Not that I know what should be done, but it seems taking years to train pilots for so little efficiency is a tad strange.

Mecha have both ground and ariel ability. When fighting Lasers - stand. When fighting other things - fly. I have no idea why they didn't do the latter more frequently though, since they had the idea right the first time about killing off the Lasers first.

The Beta are kinda stupid too. Just land on top of Kyoto or something. You're aliens from space, aren't you? The only proper explanation for such an advance is if a rare Hivemind/Queen-style alien landed on earth many years ago and has been the sole producer of the Beta forces without reinforcements since.

The suits and mecha remind me of Fafner, while the girls and alien setting reminds me of Freezing.

[shinta|hikari]

There is actually a very good reason for the existence of TSFs. I bet it will be explained in the next episode, since the story is no longer limited to a single Beta invasion.

[David75]

[HorribleSubs] Muv-Luv Alternative - Total Eclipse - 03 [720p].mkv (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=332085)




------------------------------------------------------------

So, mock battle beetween TSFs

It's nice for shonen, gives some action. But after watching ep 2, felt totally useless as the qualities displayed in such fights
seem useless against BETA.
I'd even say it teaches you bad habits and could prove dangerous when facing the real threat.

Moreover, total waste of resource as some TSFs get scraped and you could even lose some pilots.

I wonder if that's the reason why Yui was so harsh, after all, she knows all too well how the real deal is.

[Kraco]

I was a fool to think anything would change in this show. Instead of scared trainee girls unwilling or unable to follow orders we get an assorted mix of "elites" with so bad personality (or sheer mental) problems they apparently were kicked out of their units and sent to form a real dream team. No wonder Yui was less than impressed and so gloomy. A third of the world has been claimed by alien invaders and these fellows behave as if nothing was more important than their own ego and skills in human vs human fights. Well, to be fair I think the American and the Swede at least tried to act professionally, but it's hard to do that when there's a monkey in the same team. I dread to wait for the episodes with the clearly clinically insane sister duo (Russians?).

If I knew the fate of the world rested on the shoulders of people like this, I'd just kill myself and be done with it. Much cleaner and quicker.

[Ryllharu]

If I knew the fate of the world rested on the shoulders of people like this, I'd just kill myself and be done with it. Much cleaner and quicker.
It is called total eclipse. I can only imagine that wasting some of the world's remaining production capacity on these jokers (including Yui) is what pushes humanity to its darkest point so that the real Muv-Luv Alternative cast are left to try and pick up the pieces.

Yui's cold attitude pisses me off too, mostly because it has become such a cliché. Character gets traumatized, and becomes ultra-serious and a total bitch/asshole. I'll believe she has a right to it when she shows that she can actually fight these days. At least we know the two insane and/or telepathic sisters are one of the best pilot duets at the base. I wager the only thing that will fix Yui is her getting some from Yuuya. And given this franchise, she'll probably die right after that.

[Kraco]

At least we know the two insane and/or telepathic sisters are one of the best pilot duets at the base.

Until proven otherwise, I find it hard to believe those sisters could actually cooperate with anybody else to act in a proper military mission. Of course they might have some old geezer general somewhere whom they worship like the second coming, and when the man says something, they will obey it to the letter, even if it obviously means their own death. Such a cliche would suit this nicely. Like this sad episode desperately tried to teach, a best pilot is not just a lonely ace boosting his own record but somebody who ensures the mission will be accomplished.

[Ryllharu]

So...Stella's the best pilot? I agree wholeheartedly.

That means she's sure to die so Yuuya will be forced to pair up with Stuck Up Bitch Yui and the Insane Sisters.

[Archangel]

Xenophobia, xenophobia everywhere.

The more this show wants me to take it seriously the more i laugh in its face. Which is why i preferred the last episode, seeing those chicks drop like flies was quality entertainment.

[Buffalobiian]

Character gets traumatized, and becomes ultra-serious and a total bitch/asshole.

And for some reason, I like hard-ass bitches. Maybe it's to do with the melting and everything.. or I'm just M.

Anyway, hated Yui before, liked Yui now. Sisters would have been good too, but the mentally unstable make my balls shrink. Swedish melons are a safe staple.

[shinta|hikari]

I think Yui is actually capable to back up her words. Maybe she sees something in Top Gun's piloting that really needs to be changed. She has been through hell once, and god knows how many times after.

[NeoCybercoin]

I think the reason why she disliked his piloting was because he went above a certain height in that training that would have gotten him killed by a Laser if it were a real fight.

[Archangel]

I think the reason is because they didn't want to make her seem like a total slut by wanting his dick from the get go so they're having her work her way up. Or should i say down?

[Ryllharu]

I gotta go with Arch on this one.

And it's work her way up to go down. Best of both worlds.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 04 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=334334)

[David75]

Ok, at last they have a BETA battle sim. But why is that there's no laser class?
Yui was right, this is nothing more than a child's game compared to the real deal.

Regarding Japanese TSFs, I suppose the explanation we'll get is that only teenage girls can pilot so finely reactive gear. That would explain why Japanese mainly train girls. Also, I suppose the trade off for extreme manoeuvrability is less power. Explaining why the girls were not able to escape quicker.

[Ryllharu]

My issue is that Yuuya complains that the Japanese models are overly sensitive. He's a fine pilot of any model made elsewhere. Yui claims that somehow proves he sucks, but that doesn't directly counter that the Japanese models are bad. Just because half-trained Japanese girls can pilot overly sensitive TSFs doesn't make the hardware superior, it can just as easily mean that their pilots waste extra time learning to use overly complex control systems for (obviously) little gain. Why does the Japanese model not have sensitivity adjustment? Bad design again.

edit: Yui also makes the claim that older generations fended off the BETA with worse models. Great, newer models don't always mean better. Look at the F-22. Pilots hate it and refuse to fly it. Yui proved that Yuuya isn't the hot shot he thinks he is, but she didn't prove that the Japanese model doesn't suck.
(end edit)

Even with the battle sim, there weren't any laser classes, but all four of them stuck to the ground completely while in combat, so they at least pretended there could have been some.

To me, that just proves that the Japanese military sucks. Four trained pilots had little difficulty fending off the huge numbers of AI BETA, even when one of them had a little hissy fit and became useless. Oh, but we can always claim that real BETA are much harder. Like David said, if they're going to do that, Yui actually is right, and there's no point to this at all.


At least next episode we'll finally get to see Yui put up or shut up. It's just too bad they'll make her win easily, that I'm sure of. I'd rather see Stella fight Yui, since the creators would at least pretend to make it fair. But I bet that Cryska and Inia could kick her ass with no effort.

[shinta|hikari]

I think they are going to let Yui win, but not easily. This battle may serve as a chance for Yui and Yuuya to understand each other, even a little bit.

[Buffalobiian]

To me, that just proves that the Japanese military sucks. Four trained pilots had little difficulty fending off the huge numbers of AI BETA, even when one of them had a little hissy fit and became useless. Oh, but we can always claim that real BETA are much harder. Like David said, if they're going to do that, Yui actually is right, and there's no point to this at all.

Don't forget that these are supposedly aces from around the world. They're not representative of normal grunts.

[shinta|hikari]

In the version that you guys watched, did Yui say that Yuuya lacked "talent"?

[Buffalobiian]

In the version that you guys watched, did Yui say that Yuuya lacked "talent"?

yes. HS did say that.

[animus]

When I was reading the subtitles before she spoke I was expecting the word she was gonna use was "sai-no" but she used some other word.

[shinta|hikari]

She said "mijuku" which means inexperienced. What she says is accurate, because Yuuya was surprised at the number of Beta that appeared in the simulation, when in fact that number is normal or even less than what appears in Japan.

I don't think Yui is stupid enough to label an elite pilot as untalented.

[Yukimura]

I guess no one had a problem with the blatant caricature of American life they depicted Yuuya having as well as how they look to be setting up to make 'Japaneseness' the most glorious state of being ever. Additionally if the Japanese chick has such a rage wettie for Yuuya a) why the hell is he there in the first place and b) if she didn't have a choice in his selection why is she being a twat rather than helping him. If he needs help to learn to control their apparently fly by no wire mecha maybe she should take him out and show him some of the finer points of the Japanese design considerations rather than smirking cryptically and insulting him all the time.

Also, really? the little russian prodigy girl lives in a top secret base full of armed guards but doesn't pass a single one between a publicly accessible tarmac and her living quarters who might question the random unauthorized guest she's showing around... contrived, contrived, contrived, I kind of hope this show gets better, but at this point I'm just banking on the mecha action being entertaining and letting my eyes go unfocused during the dialogue.

[David75]

Yeah, I didn't even want to comment the troll food about races and underlying racism/nationalism in that show.

[Buffalobiian]

I guess no one had a problem with the blatant caricature of American life they depicted Yuuya having as well as how they look to be setting up to make 'Japaneseness' the most glorious state of being ever.

No problems here. I think I secretly enjoy it. Kind of like revenge for some childhood racism I've felt from white kids.

[Kraco]

My issue is that Yuuya complains that the Japanese models are overly sensitive. He's a fine pilot of any model made elsewhere. Yui claims that somehow proves he sucks, but that doesn't directly counter that the Japanese models are bad. Just because half-trained Japanese girls can pilot overly sensitive TSFs doesn't make the hardware superior, it can just as easily mean that their pilots waste extra time learning to use overly complex control systems for (obviously) little gain. Why does the Japanese model not have sensitivity adjustment? Bad design again.

edit: Yui also makes the claim that older generations fended off the BETA with worse models. Great, newer models don't always mean better. Look at the F-22. Pilots hate it and refuse to fly it. Yui proved that Yuuya isn't the hot shot he thinks he is, but she didn't prove that the Japanese model doesn't suck.

I don't really feel like defending this annoying show, but since they are trying to develop something new by combining technologies and design ideologies, I reckon the final product will have the power from American/European(?) models and maneuverability from the Japanese model. Since the dude is already used to stiff power, he now needs to get used to quick movements. It's not like there'd be anything bad, per se, in being able to react fast, yet it would probably feel alien to a person used to a tank. However, since we are talking about Yuuya, the actual problems are inside his head, nowhere else. Too bad he lets the bitch, Yui, get inside that troubled head as well.

What comes to the reason why Yui is there in the first place, I bet it has everything to do with her family, connections, and whatever other external things always decide a person's fate in the glorious Japanese culture, as opposed to her personal suitability to the delicate mission, since she shows very little of that.

[Ryllharu]

It's 100% her family. They said in episode 1 that her father helped to design some of the Japanese TSFs. Certainly the ones Yui and her long-dead friends were using.

That's also why she's a member of the Imperial Royal Guard at all, and gets to wear a special colored plugsuit. So while I'm sure she's overworked herself half to death to meet up with those expectations...raw skill isn't a factor. Yui's benefits are all hereditary.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 05 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=336529)

[NeoCybercoin]

So she is constantly bashing him because praising him that he is mastering the TSF at a rather fast pace is something that she can't do because it's not enough? I think it's funny that she insults him that he is an embarrassment as a Japanese and then in this episode she says he's American. Make up your mind woman.

[David75]

Why do I feel like these eps are fillers?
Maybe because Yuuya will experience the loss of his comrades like Yui did in ep2?
Surprisingly, they were really weak against Yui.
Yuuya did show the usual shonen last second master skills, but that's clear insufficient as Yui said.
Their simulations really are too easy. They'd need tens of years to get to average combat skills, during that time beta would evolve and wipe the earth.

[Buffalobiian]

For all the trouble and understanding that they preached before about understanding the Japanese TSF, the "sudden learning" part of it was a real mood-killer. Don't just make something "hard to understand", then dish out an "oh, I got it!" and leave it with that.

The ideology part of it was fun.. how the "Japanese way" was to adapt yourself so you can fit in with your environment, while the "American way" was to manipulate your environment such that it fits yourself. I don't have an opinion on how truthful such statements are, but I'm glad that they at least gave us an explanation after all the "they run on different philosophies" stuff from the past eps.

[shinta|hikari]

Yuuya didn't just get it. He managed to get a glimpse of it while in a critical situation, and it took him some time to even get to that point, time that Beta will never give him in actual combat. He even said that he still needed to master it in order to become stronger. In other words, he was lucky and Yui let him win.

[animus]

This show with all the homer Japanese mentality is so annoying.

[Buffalobiian]

Yuuya didn't just get it. He managed to get a glimpse of it while in a critical situation, and it took him some time to even get to that point, time that Beta will never give him in actual combat. He even said that he still needed to master it in order to become stronger. In other words, he was lucky and Yui let him win.

I understand that part. He's far from perfecting it.

My gripe was the lack of explanation about what it is that he's actually grasping. The key.. the hint.. or the realisation. Just something so that we can understand how he's doing it.. not just "that was hard.. but I'm managing somehow now."

[shinta|hikari]

It was implied that he got it when he tilted the sword forward and managed to make his first decent attack against Yui. I do hope that they elaborate more on that in the next episode.

[Ryllharu]

The ideology part of it was fun.. how the "Japanese way" was to adapt yourself so you can fit in with your environment, while the "American way" was to manipulate your environment such that it fits yourself. I don't have an opinion on how truthful such statements are, but I'm glad that they at least gave us an explanation after all the "they run on different philosophies" stuff from the past eps.I can't speak to the Japanese aside from the philosophy behind zen gardens, but that's pretty accurate for Americans.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 06 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=338899)

[Ryllharu]

Seriously, a shameless beach episode? I was under the impression these were serious test pilots, but I guess I was mistaken. Instead they use the female Eishi for a photo shoot to recruit the remainder of the men...who are aren't already enlisted in the fight against the BETA, or dead.

Classy.

Not to mention they're essentially wasting time playing games (seriously, a boat race?) at a plush tropical resort in the relatively safe West Indies, while everyone else around the world dies in combat against the BETA. They don't really need to test mechs near the tropical seas, they showed us that naval artillery works quite effectively against them.

Considering that the best remaining pilots in the world are properly trained women (Eishi trained at academies), this make no sense at all. If they wanted to keep any continuity, they'd use the men in the photo shoot.

And of course this whole thing ends with the "stranded on a desert island" cliché...

[Buffalobiian]

Regardless of the quality of this show, it pushes all the right buttons to make me watch it - from the OP/EDs to the suits/mecha to the girls.

Beach episode? Sure, why not.

[NeoCybercoin]

It does make sense for her to wonder why he is was using their first names since that is one major difference between Japan and ( as far as I know it ) the rest of the world.

[Kraco]

It does make sense for her to wonder why he is was using their first names since that is one major difference between Japan and ( as far as I know it ) the rest of the world.

A bit less of a difference since they are in military service. Or at least should be, though all the fanservice and no combat whatsoever is making me doubt even that. Military is quite a formal place and calling people by their last names is the norm (in addition to the rank titles).

Episode 7 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=341189)





- -- --- -- -





This was a similar ep to the last. Nothing of worth happened. At least the preview seemed to suggest they will be sent to the battle in the coming eps. I wish this was more a fighting and less a cheap drama show.

[NeoCybercoin]

She should just admit she wants it hard.

[Ryllharu]

She should just admit she wants it hard.
Came here to post that. Getting really worked up after being told she was like a "Kid sulking because she got left out," being accused of wanting to get along with him, then finishes it up by showing off her body (in a bikini) to dozens of her subordinates so that they can ogle her.

She laid down on the rocks with her back to Yuuya, hoping he would take her right then and there in front of Cryska.

Exhibitionist skank.

[Kraco]

Episode 8 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=343506)



- - - -- - - --





Even the front lines are no different in this show: Soldiers are still more concerned about ripping out each other's figurative throats than concentrating on fighting the aliens. I guess the attitude of these minority soldiers makes some sense if the central Russians were evacuated and the rest left behind, but planning to rape two test pilots and kill another from a foreign country looks counterproductive no matter how you look at it, and speaks ill of the general level of training, discipline, and especially moral. These guys must be believing they will all be dead soon and have nothing left to fight for. Truly the recruiting material among the population is getting narrow if this is the best they can get.

This episode still managed to avoid it but surely the next one will have a fight at last!

[NeoCybercoin]

Funny how Yui's attitude totally changed towards him.

[shinta|hikari]

The art in this episode was absolutely horrendous. It was like I was watching a doujin work made by a talentless artist.

[Yukimura]

Funny how Yui's attitude totally changed towards him.

Agreed, I found Yui annoying when she was a bitch on wheels but at least she seemed to have some self-respect. Now she's just a shuddering mess waiting (and probably hoping) for Yuuya to grab her by the hair and drag her back to his cave for a night of quality time next to a fire, alone this time. Apparently since he was nice to her in a survival setting she has lost the capacity to meaningfully stand up against him in any way. The contrast between her previous and current behavior makes her far more distasteful to me than she ever seemed when she was being a bitch.

I can't say I didn't see this coming though, they are a destined pair, provided they both survive the show, and it seems to be a requirement in the dance of action anime romance that the female partner must at some point surrender any and all airs of emotional superiority or equality with her male love interest by being reduced to a stuttering, blubbering mess in his presence a few times before the relationship can move forward.

[Buffalobiian]

Yui did say that she actually saw him as an exceptional pilot, but that alone wasn't enough so she needed to constantly push him. I think they've both taken a step back (or forward?) after the beach arc. Yui's a lot softer on Yuuya (after hearing about his past?), and I don't recall Yuuya spouting "Japanese doll" after that either.

It's still artificial development, but most of it stemmed from when Yuuya kept complaining about his test machine being crap, and Yui's lack of acknowledgement/encouragement.

[Buffalobiian]

[Shin-S] Muv-Luv Alternative Total Eclipse ED Single - signs ~Saku Tsukiichi Yoru~ [Kuribayashi Minami]

MP3 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=345430) / FLAC (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=345431)

[Kraco]

Episode 9 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=345858)





- -- -- - -- --






That was one helluva cannon. Little else really happened in the episode, except a demonstration of how the corruption of morals and honour infests not only individual pilots but also affects national and international politics, wasting human resources and chances to survive the alien attack. I guess that's pretty realistic, after all.

I'm almost surprised Yuuya could take it and didn't lose his nerves. He certainly looked like he would crack any moment, and not only during the countdown but when the Soviets were badmouthing the test pilots.

[Buffalobiian]

Cryska suffers from memory reprogramming? Or just dual personality? It's almost like she's the first "test soldier" who is plagued with instability (headache) and requires constant maintenance while Inia's the newer, more promising model. The title "Scarlet Twins" make it sound like they were born and designed together though.

I was looking forward to that ED, but it sounds less grand without the celestial backdrop in sight.

[David75]

"Scartlet Twins"
I highly doubt Cryska and Inia are the pair of twins...
So I guess Cryska has a twin sister, who's not Inia. I might be possible Inia also has a twin sister. And the for of them are tandem pilots for 2 similar TSFs. Both statements are a large stretch, compared to the simple idea that Inia probably isn't Cryska's twin sister.

No regarding the progression of the show:
Who care mastering a blade, when I has a bigger gun :D

[Kraco]

Episode 10 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=348125)



- - - - - - - - - - -







You would think that with an utterly inhuman, monstrous, human eating alien invasion you could create some tension and thrill in a story, but honestly this anime totally fails at that. Maybe it's the fact the focus is 95% on immature personal conflict between the characters and not on anything important. If it weren't for the necessary deaths, this bunch of people would be better cast into an entirely different kind of a show, that is, a pure drama with nothing important going on in the background.

[David75]

Honestly, what keeps me watching was the fated ep when Yui lost all of her classmates.
I would not say that the anime was good at that point, just that it did create a good tension/atmosphere and change of pace.
After that, I guess they had given the most they could and were left with what we experienced till now.

[Kraco]

Episode 11 - HS (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=350679)




- - - - - -- - - - -






Still little in the way of dangerous combat, but at least we partially switched from immature drama to shady and bold politics. That's good development, I'd say, since I scarcely dare to expect decent action from this series anymore.

[NeoCybercoin]

Just stupid to leave an opening for the BETA to exploit just so that they could some day steal tech from their 'ally'.

[Archangel]

I haven't watched this since episode 5, has it gone back to people dying in hilarious ways yet?

[Buffalobiian]

I don't remember any significant deaths of late.

[David75]

Yup, Seems like they did that ep just to lure us into believing we'd get more.
Right now, I wish for a similar ep as the fateful one, with all of their universe mankind devoured with main characters too...

The only sad thing about that show is getting right is that it would not be uprising when faced with similar threat that our world would react the same... ie still trying to steal/fight other nations/political system instead of focusing on the survival of mankind.

[Buffalobiian]

Yup, Seems like they did that ep just to lure us into believing we'd get more.

Ga-Rei Zero kicked back into gear at the end. It's not over till it's over.

[Archangel]

Oh wtf, so it's become some political drama bulshit of countries fighting each other when there's a godamn alien invasion?

[NeoCybercoin]

Damn Russians!

[David75]

Oh wtf, so it's become some political drama bulshit of countries fighting each other when there's a godamn alien invasion?

Well more or less that, with pointless exercises, a tad of fanservice island eps and so on. All the while you keep wondering why they do not shoot themselves and finish the show with that... instead they keep us believing we'll get another gruesome ep.

[Archangel]

You're a good man, David. I thank you.

Dropped.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 12 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=353081)



----------------------------------











That was a laser class at the end wasn't it?

I guess I'll just have to assume that the golden suit is either too weak to carry the cannon, is somehow locked down or has no fuel, because that's the first thing they should be thinking of.

[NeoCybercoin]

I don't think a Laser Class looked like that. Maybe a Heavy Laser Class as they mentioned in the previous episode. We haven't seen those yet.

[Kraco]

Laser class looked like a brain walking on two legs, with two big eyestalks fused together, protruding from the body. Whatever the gigantic thing was, it wasn't on the chart in the beginning of this episode. Maybe it was some central node, interested in the railgun? I don't remember the heavy laser Neo mentioned, but that's certainly another possibility, although compared to the highly suggestive form of the normal laser class, the shape of this one doesn't really imply such functionality.

[NeoCybercoin]

The Bao-Feng squad mentioned that it's the only thing capable of taking out an entire base so quickly so we know those things exist

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 13 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=355226)

[Kraco]

So, it was a Fort class, and not so overly impressive: Very slow and big making it an easy target and while it had some range with the whip, it's still nothing compared to the laser. It didn't even seem as armoured as the Destroyer class, for whatever reason, despite being a fort.

Yuuya's total lack of battle sense was quite impressive. His mecha was in such a poor shape that he couldn't even jump from the runway, but he thought he could single-handedly destroy all the beta by performing a brainless full-frontal melee attack? Honestly, this show has script writing almost as good as SAO...

[NeoCybercoin]

At least they focus on them Mecha's and fighting the Beta's instead of Yui's craving for Yuuya.

[shinta|hikari]

What? There was more Yui blushing this episode than there was action.

This show is badly written and executed. The art is horrible too.

Still, for some reason I am glad it is 2 cour.

[Buffalobiian]

I like the art, though it's arguably for the style more so than the quality.

We're finally back to an episode were I actually feel suspense while sitting in my chair.

That said... Scarlet Twins to the rescue next episode? Honestly, with them around I don't understand how the humans are losing this war.

[shinta|hikari]

Because there are only 2 of them and the Beta number around hundreds of thousands.

[Buffalobiian]

Because there are only 2 of them and the Beta number around hundreds of thousands.

Does that matter? The only things setting them back seem to be the lack of in-battle ammo and fuel trucks.

Then again, we haven't seen the feared laser class since.... episode 2?

[shinta|hikari]

They have been fighting small numbers of Beta so far. You can see them maybe fighting off hundreds. Imagine having to fight off ten thousand of them. They will eventually get surrounded. Even retreating to refuel would be impossible.

If you add in the laser class, every pilot in the show should have been dead by now.

[Kraco]

That said... Scarlet Twins to the rescue next episode? Honestly, with them around I don't understand how the humans are losing this war.

Yeah, the last thing they need to make this show perfect is a pair of weird twin girls to defeat a huge number of beta all by themselves. Right after they established that unless you have a magical railgun and the enemy mysteriously doesn't use lasers, you can put up a limited resistance against a limited number of beta with inevitable but tolerable losses.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 14 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=357355)




------------------------------------------

















So the Scarlet Twins were used as an assassination squad instead to sweep up any loose ends. Nasty.. but not unfitting.

I guess next time they'll have to wipe out Yuuya, but Inia would be unable to do so.

[Kraco]

I guess next time they'll have to wipe out Yuuya, but Inia would be unable to do so.

I'm sure the script will come up with some excuse to pull off such a plot element. Humanity is not taking the beta seriously enough, despite all the land and lives lost, so half the effort and resources wasted on internal conflict is sensible under those circumstances.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 15 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=362458)

[Kraco]

The beta is really no concern whatsoever, right? Do they even remember anymore the space invaders exist? I suppose I could be alright with the Americans forgetting it as their turf hasn't been touched, but I find it unbelievable the others, who have already lost their lands, waste their time on inconsequential things.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 16 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=365105)

[NeoCybercoin]

Screw Beta, Let's fight and fall in love!

Seriously, Yuuya is like a chick magnet. Even Cryska is falling for him!

[Buffalobiian]

At this stage, I'd rather watch tournaments and love than fighting Beta..

They're just kind of there for shock kills and sudden strikes in numbers you don't expect, while TSF pilots actually talk and have motives.

The Beta could have played a better role had they developed the story around them from the start, but by now it's unsalvagable, so I'll take chicks, robots and tightsuits instead.

[NeoCybercoin]

You mean you were watching this for the plot from the start?

[David75]

Some back story on the Beta couldn't move this show to lower lows... or is it even possible?
So yes, that would be nice.

And please, do not troll us telling they have been created by some nation...

[shinta|hikari]

There was an episode a few weeks ago (when no muvluv episode came out) that explained a lot of details about the Beta in variety show format. The seiyuu were there. I just skimmed through it because I already read the original VN, but it seems to have a lot of interesting information, like Beta numbers, characteristics and what exactly humanity knows about them.

[NeoCybercoin]

Hmmm I don't believe I've seen that one. Could you tell me where I can watch that?

[shinta|hikari]

Here is the raw:
http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=360500

No subbed version AFAIK.

[Buffalobiian]

HorribleSubs - Episode 17 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=367774)

[NeoCybercoin]

There's just so Muv-Luv for Yuuya.

The Princess is kind of aware of her feelings for him.
The China chick is throwing herself at him and claimed him.
And even the confused Cryska has feelings for the guy. ( Not counting Inia though Tarisa could also have feelings for the guy. )

Too bad the best of em...Stella has no such thing for him.....yet.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 18 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=370477) | 19 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=372947)

-----------------------------
















Ridiculous episode.. was nice.

Too bad it's a zero sum game and we're stuck with a flash-back episode next week.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 20 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=375503)

[NeoCybercoin]

So...Sharon is a confirmed ex-lover of Yuuya. And Cryska and the China chick are both wearing UN suits in the new OP. Which explains why Inia is shown alone in her mech. Also cool looking mecha with the whole blue aura thing.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 21 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=377760) | 22 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=379881)



----------------------------------------------


















Hah, so all the anti-TSF training was due to the human subconscious knowing that humans are the most dangerous species all along?

Good to have Yui doing some fighting after such a long time. I'd love to have Stella get her own specialised sniping TSF but that's not gonna happen.

[NeoCybercoin]

Yeah even when the earth is being invaded by freaking man-eating aliens.....mankinds greatest enemy is still mankind...

[David75]

Seems like the idea BETA might be manmade could prove true. It's a little early to be sure what that lab where they have BETA under proteïn control is. Is it just a lab where they study BETA and were able to control them enough for that, or is it really a lab where they create new/better BETA?

The infinites, that attack that spares US troops, how the USA are portrayed in that show and how it is the only place on earth that was never attacked might let us think BETA are in fact US weapons... It might even be they collaborated with the USSR to create them and the USSR used BETA against some of their "minor" federations they had trouble controling. Or it might be they sucked at controling BETA...

This is only anime, but hate for the USA and the Japanese Nationalism... just saying.

[Buffalobiian]

HS - Episode 23 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=382083), 24 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=384041), 25 (http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=download&tid=386153)



-----------------------














And yet another "what was that all about" anime comes to pass this season.

[KrayZ33]

I agree, had its moment though, I liked the first few episodes the most, but it was less and less entertaining with each episode

the last few were of "why do I even watch this" quality.... reminded me of naruto fillers

[NeoCybercoin]

From what I understand this adaptation of the Muv-Luv series was more focused on all the human problems and less focused on Beta.

[shinta|hikari]

This is so far from the quality of the VN that I just classify it as a different thing altogether.

The VN had its flaws, but was not this by light years.

[Ryllharu]

But the first "Alternative" part of the VN doesn't even show the Beta at all either...

It's not that different.

[shinta|hikari]

I think of the whole VN as the VN, so yeah.

It is very different because the VN was actually good.