Movie: Man of Steel

[Munsu]

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4120/hrlicensingexpo20125.jpg

Man of Steel

Director: Zack Snyder
Writers: David S. Goyer & Christopher Nolan

Cast of note:

Henry Cavill - Superman
Amy Adams - Lois Lane
Michael Shannon - General Zod
Russell Crowe - Jor-El
Diane Lane - Martha Kent
Kevin Costner - Jonathan Kent
Christopher Meloni - Colonel Hardy
Laurence Fishburne - Perry White
Tahmoh Penikett - Emerson

Do we have a winner here? I wonder about Fishburne as Perry White, but can't wait to see Michael Shannon as Zod.

[Abdula]

Forget everything else DC does, this is the only movie I am looking forward to. Personally I loved Superman Returns and I do not know what all the flak that movie got was about but Man of Steel should be awesome. Just as long as there is not too much Clark Kent/internal conflict nonsense that completely detracts from as opposed to enhancing the Superman character.

As for Fishburne as Perry White. I think that can only be a +, because somewhere along the way the Perry White character from DC and the J Jonah Jameson character from Marvel became the same person.

They better put the Clique's version of Superman in this movie

[Munsu]

I enjoyed Superman Returns myself, so we'll see how this one goes. But seems to me to be moving in the right direction from the information at hand.

[Y]

Superman Returns gets the essence of Superman completely, hilariously wrong. If your version of Superman is a deadbeat dad, you've fucked everything up.

Snyder is a pretty interesting choice for this: is this going to be some kind of ironic deconstruction of Superman like Watchmen or Sucker Punch?

[Munsu]

This "deadbeat dad" stuff is completely overblown, oversimplified, and sustained by baseless assumptions. Have always felt like a weak reason to not like this particularly movie, but I understand most complaints against it otherwise. Still I enjoyed the movie.

But yeah, agree about Snyder. I also wonder how much control he'll have over the story considering Goyer's and Nolan's involvement.

[Y]

How so? It just fits with the joyless, empty tone of the movie. Superman very literally got Lois pregnant and abandoned her on a quest to go check out his blown up home planet, a quest literally handwaved away in an opening text crawl. The script wanted to separate Superman and Lois, probably because the creative team felt Lois and Clark are too "cliched" or "old fashioned" or some horseshit. It just fits with how pervasively WRONG the whole movie is - Superman's son casually, accidentally murders someone defending Lois, or winking, joyless nods at the conventions of the medium like the child immediately understanding Superman is Clark.

[Munsu]

How so? It just fits with the joyless, empty tone of the movie. Superman very literally got Lois pregnant and abandoned her on a quest to go check out his blown up home planet, a quest literally handwaved away in an opening text crawl.


He was unaware of Lois being pregnant. How does that make him a deadbeat dad for leaving on said quest? Seriously, is this your basis for calling Superman a deadbeat dad? You're stretching it quite a bit.

And then I ask, are all the dads that are soldiers and fight on wars for whatever cause deadbeat dads? Seems like that's the reasoning you're applying here.



The script wanted to separate Superman and Lois, probably because the creative team felt Lois and Clark are too "cliched" or "old fashioned" or some horseshit. It just fits with how pervasively WRONG the whole movie is - Superman's son casually, accidentally murders someone defending Lois, or winking, joyless nods at the conventions of the medium like the child immediately understanding Superman is Clark.

All fine and good, but nothing to do with the "deadbeat" accusation.

[Animeniax]

Umm, how would Lois handle having a superbaby inside her any better than Bella would handle having a vampire baby inside her? I haven't seen the movie btw.

Also, who's costume is that in the background to the right?

1293

[Munsu]

I was wondering the same thing, seems like a female out fit. Maybe someone from Krypton or someone with General Zod; maybe Ursa or Faora (who's been confirmed to appear in the movie played by Antje Traue).

Here's the supposed costume of Jor-El and a Hi-Res of the one you're asking about:

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3048/hrlicensingexpo20121.jpg



http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9785/hrlicensingexpo20123.jpg

[Y]

He was unaware of Lois being pregnant. How does that make him a deadbeat dad for leaving on said quest? Seriously, is this your basis for calling Superman a deadbeat dad? You're stretching it quite a bit.

And then I ask, are all the dads that are soldiers and fight on wars for whatever cause deadbeat dads? Seems like that's the reasoning you're applying here.

First off, was this stated? How can Superman not know that having a bunch of unprotected sex with Lois Lane is going to get her pregnant? He isn't a sheltered highschooler. Plus he can see atoms, I don't think he'd fail to notice a pregnancy. I just assumes his tour in space took WAY longer than he intended. In any case, Superman abandoned Lois for nebulous and poorly fleshed out reasons (handled largely in a TEXT CRAWL at the start of the movie) and combined with his Super-Stalking later in the movie just comes off as a creepy asshole.

[Animeniax]

I think he could hear the sperm pierce the egg when he laid his super-sperm inside her. Shit, his ejaculation should have caused internal hemorrhaging for Lois.

But plot holes aside, maybe the birds and the bees work differently on Krypton, or maybe his adoptive Aunt and Uncle never taught him about sex ed. He was raised in a rural setting where they have conservative values and don't believe in sex ed in schools, only prayer.

[Y]

I briefly tried to work it into the film's Christ metaphor - like maybe the five year gap symbolizes Jesus's death and resurrection and the movie depicts the second coming? But then I remembered it does the death and resurrection again later so that can't be it. Fuck Superman Returns.

[Abdula]

Come on now. I choose to believe that the movie was good for what it was. A Lois and Clark movie, damn that stupid show for forever ruining Superman. It would have been much better if the plot didn't revolve around that stupid kid and Lois' utterly boring love interest, not really because there was no plot beyond that but you take what you can get. By the way if you want to talk about bad parenting, who the hell brings their kid to check out Lex Luthor's ship?

Man of Steel just has to focus on Superman and it should be fine.

[Munsu]

First off, was this stated?

Didn't have to be. It was quite clear that he didn't know Lois had a child, let alone that it was his until later on in the movie.


How can Superman not know that having a bunch of unprotected sex with Lois Lane is going to get her pregnant? He isn't a sheltered highschooler.

So, now he's having lots of unprotected sex. See what I mean about assumptions? Couldn't it have been just a couple of times, or maybe just the once? Also, should everyone that has had unprotected sex be under the assumption that everyone has been impregnated? Of course not. No one knows until the news comes. There are ton of people that try for some time to get pregnant you know, and unsuccessfully until it happens.


Plus he can see atoms, I don't think he'd fail to notice a pregnancy.
How much time passed since Lois became pregnant and until he decided to go on his journey? Secondly, he doesn't walk around seeing atoms. That's foolish.


I just assumes his tour in space took WAY longer than he intended. In any case, Superman abandoned Lois for nebulous and poorly fleshed out reasons (handled largely in a TEXT CRAWL at the start of the movie) and combined with his Super-Stalking later in the movie just comes off as a creepy asshole.

Completely irrelevant to the accusation. And "abandoned Lois", once again, irrelevant. They're unmarried grown-ups, they can do whatever the fuck they want, particularly when pregnancy wasn't even in the cards at the moment from all that I and logic can tell.

[Y]

You're way too invested in this. I should have known it was some kind of serious issue for you when you brought up a whole raft of insulting objections to my feelings about a movie. You're bitching about the hypothetical number of times he slept with Lois when the whole dynamic of Lois and Clark's relationship in the movie is the feelings of abandonment and detachment Lois had to get over to enter into her current relationship. She wrote an article called "Why the world doesn't need Superman" not because natural disasters and supervillains stopped attacking but to get over her own issues about it, which is just fucking awful. Superman is a shit in this film. For the record, the action sequences are stilted and lifeless and the movie is like a demake of Superman I with any kind of hopeful or inspirational elements excised, which is odd since it depicts Superman-as-Messiah as well. Maybe a reflection of the irreligious nature of the modern monomyth? Too much credit to this film.

[Munsu]

You're way too invested in this. I should have known it was some kind of serious issue for you when you brought up a whole raft of insulting objections to my feelings about a movie. You're bitching about the hypothetical number of times he slept with Lois when the whole dynamic of Lois and Clark's relationship in the movie is the feelings of abandonment and detachment Lois had to get over to enter into her current relationship. She wrote an article called "Why the world doesn't need Superman" not because natural disasters and supervillains stopped attacking but to get over her own issues about it, which is just fucking awful. Superman is a shit in this film. For the record, the action sequences are stilted and lifeless and the movie is like a demake of Superman I with any kind of hopeful or inspirational elements excised, which is odd since it depicts Superman-as-Messiah as well. Maybe a reflection of the irreligious nature of the modern monomyth? Too much credit to this film.

I'm not way invested in this, I just don't care for your misconceptions about this particular issue. It's completely baseless. Of course Lois feels abandoned, she was in love with Superman and he was not around. She would have written the same piece whether she had a child with him or not. It's in the nature of her character. I'm not bitching about hypothetical number of times they slept together. You brought it up as the inconclusive evidence that Superman completely knew Lois had been pregnant when he left, and I'm just calling you on your BS and faulty logic.

And I said, I understand all the other complaints thrown against the film, and respect other's opinions on not liking it, which I'm fine with. I have the same complaints, but I enjoyed it nonetheless and that's about the extent I care to discuss the "was it a good movie or not" aspect of this. But I find the complaints about him being a "deadbeat dad" just complete crap which doesn't hold up with what was portrayed in the film.

[Y]

I'm not way invested in this

Yeah, you are.

EDIT:

"Saying Superman abandoned Lois is ridiculous, despite the fact that her whole character arc in the movie is getting over the fact that Superman abandoned her." Yeah, alright. I think I'm done here.

[Munsu]

Yeah, you are.

I'll keep it in mind next time I call someone on his flawed logic and baseless assumptions. It must be because I'm way too invested on said issue, and not because I simply care about having the facts straight regardless of what the issue may be.

Lesson learned.

Edit above: I don't know where you got that quote from, but it wasn't from this thread.

[Y]

Ok.

The "facts" of the matter are nebulous and undefined, and the "facts" of a fictional universe besides. The point is, beyond question, the film made Superman an absentee God, which handily misses the point of the Superman mythos. The film depicts a broken, dysfunctional dynamic between Superman and his people, with Clark as a shoddy disguise that a child literally sees through, a sad parody of humanity that he never got right when it mattered. Which one of these themes did I invent out of whole cloth exactly? This is such a mean, hopeless version of the Superman mythos that I find it offensive and dithering about the "facts" - which you made up by presenting possible alternate hypotheticals to an offhand comment, the substance of which does not diminish the thrust of said themes and you damn well know it - entirely pointless.

Did Superman know Lois was pregnant? He's a fictional construct, so the answer is undoubtedly no. The point is the awful, cynical nature of what Superman represents in this film, what his "human" frailties like spying on his ex-girlfriend do to the arc of his character, not how many times he stuck his cock in Lois.

Edit"


The earlier films knew that, and they cast Christopher Reeve, never a stunning actor but a likeable one; he bridged the alien remoteness and the need to be human—he tied the Clark Kent side to the superhero side, making them mirror each other. In this film, Brandon Routh drops the human side completely; he smiles sad, beatific smiles as he floats above us. His interactions with humans are without warmth. It might be that Routh is a cold actor, or that he and Singer decided to play up the remoteness.

It's as if the actors are going through the motions without a care for their characters' feelings, relationships, or situations. In particular, there's Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane, a character that seems so depressed, so clueless, and deflated that she makes Clark Kent look like an extrovert. A far cry from Margot Kidder's sarcastic, edgy, and fallible reporter who carried loads of sass and sureness, perfectly complementary to Reeve's upstanding and wholesome Superman, Bosworth sets a joyless tone.

These are the problems with the movie embodied by Superman abandoning Earth. Not that Superman abandoning his girlfriend, within the universe, is the central problem.

[Munsu]

Ok.

The "facts" of the matter are nebulous and undefined, and the "facts" of a fictional universe besides. The point is, beyond question, the film made Superman an absentee God, which handily misses the point of the Superman mythos. The film depicts a broken, dysfunctional dynamic between Superman and his people, with Clark as a shoddy disguise that a child literally sees through, a sad parody of humanity that he never got right when it mattered. Which one of these themes did I invent out of whole cloth exactly? This is such a mean, hopeless version of the Superman mythos that I find it offensive and dithering about the "facts" - which you made up by presenting possible alternate hypotheticals to an offhand comment, the substance of which does not diminish the thrust of said themes and you damn well know it - entirely pointless.

Did Superman know Lois was pregnant? He's a fictional construct, so the answer is undoubtedly no. The point is the awful, cynical nature of what Superman represents in this film, what his "human" frailties like spying on his ex-girlfriend do to the arc of his character, not how many times he stuck his cock in Lois.

I was merely commenting to your first post of this thread where in essence you put everything that was wrong with the film into Superman being a deadbeat dad, and I found that to be weak and unfounded. Your other elaborations I've had zero issues with, as you can tell since I haven't referred to them in any of my posts, that's your take on the movie and I agree with much of it.

The only problem I have had is how people have been arriving at the "deadbeat dad" conclusions. It just doesn't compute with me as there's nothing to suggest it. Nothing from what I've seen in the movie has led me to believe that Superman intentionally (as I feel intent is very important when accusing someone of being a deadbeat) left a pregnant Lois to fend for herself without him fulfilling his parental obligations, in the context of what he can manage by keeping them safe from his enemies.

I really don't care for the rest, I've just found it curious to see how people have arrived at calling Superman a deadbeat dad, since it's a tune that has propagated through the internet through the years, and I've always found it unsubstantiated, but never cared to argue it. So you came along here and claim the same, so decided to have a poke and see where people were coming from, but nothing you've said has convinced me that he's a deadbeat dad.

And that's pretty much the extent of my interest of this discussion.

[Animeniax]

Wow, you're both way into this. It's shitty writing for an average movie that tried to ride the coattails of previous offerings. Nothing much to get too upset about.

[Assassin]

^what he said

edit: Also, am i the only one seeing the "super bulge" in the Pants of Steel?

[Abdula]

No, you are just the only one crass enough to point it out:p. I think everyone else is content just to leave it alone

[Animeniax]

Just watched Superman Returns. Not a terrible movie. It tried real hard to recall the super moments of a film from 20 years ago. The current generation of superhero movie fans will miss half the signature/ode moments harking from the original movies. Overall a decent movie if you don't think about it too hard, same with most superhero movies these days.

edit: for the new movie:
Theseus from Immortals (the movie) is Superman
Amy Adams as Lois Lane
Morpheus as Perry White
No Lex Luthor

This should be pretty terrible.

[Abdula]

Lex Luthor in the Superman movies was terrible

[Animeniax]

Not that I care that much about a new Superman movie, but here are some pics:

1299 1300

I guess it's cool that the actor has the physique for the role, if not the height and size.
From http://collider.com/superman-man-of-steel-set-photo-costume/112353/

[Assassin]

height and size can be "directed" into the movie. Physique would require cgi, so better that that's already there. Although i sill maintain, the best person to play superman is the guy from smallville. He has the perfect physique for it.

[Animeniax]

He probably doesn't have the star power for the role, but then how do you explain Brandon Routh getting the part in 2006.

I think the guy from Smallville is good for a younger Clark Kent, but too lean for a Metropolis-era Clark Kent. Routh had the physique for the role, if not the acting chops.

Armie Hammer would have been good for the role as far as physique.

[Munsu]

^what he said

edit: Also, am i the only one seeing the "super bulge" in the Pants of Steel?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns-lUlk6khA

[Uchiha Barles]

Here's the Superman movie I'd like to see:

1305

[Assassin]

I'd totally watch that

[Animeniax]

It sounds like an awesome premise, but it's kinda been done. I can't remember where and in what, but it's not an original idea, though some of what Superman can do will add those original elements to the story.

[Munsu]

Poor quality, leaked trailer from comic-con:
http://whatculture.com/film/man-of-steel-trailer-leaks-from-comic-con-superman-flys-again.php



http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6580/manofsteelteaserpostero.jpg

[Abdula]

it feels like Smallville meets Batman BeginsI wish. That would be a fantastic movie

[Carnage]

Wow that trailer actually looked really good, maybe its just me but I feel like it has Chris Nolan written all over it (well he is the producer). DC should have him produce all their movies.

[Munsu]

First official trailer, more like a teaser really:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jKWJZsjm5U

[Animeniax]

That looks super, man. It's amazing how everything leading up to him in the Superman outfit is so cool that it almost makes his superhero work anticlimactic. I'm actually looking forward to this movie now.

[Munsu]

The one above is with Kevin Costner's narration.

Here's the one with Russell Crowe's narration:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wArmHSPIvlQ

I like this one better.

[Animeniax]

I prefer the Costner one. It sounds more like his old man giving him advice. Though with Crowe playing Jor-El, it also makes sense that his real father would tell him something like that too.

Notice the beard on Clark. How does he shave exactly? I wonder if even a diamond razor could cut super-hair.

[Abdula]

I'm actually looking forward to this movie now.
SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!

That was fantastic and he actually seems powerful this time around. The previous supermen were wimps but you go ahead Henry Cavill fly at supersonic speeds, show them how it's done, take your flying lessons from Neo.

In the old days they had him shave using a mirror and his heat/laser vision.

[Carnage]

Here is the Comic Con teaser with a minute more of footage. I think its much better, and am REALLY excited to see this now. I wouldnt be surprised if DC manages to turn this into their next cash cow like TDK trilogy.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lOXZq1yCR1k

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

"okay.... I just got tingles."


never been much of a superman man, but that brought some much needed hype bout this to me.

[Animeniax]

That looks awesome!! Having the military standoff with Superman makes more sense. When has humanity ever readily accepted someone who they don't know, don't understand, and can't control, even if he saves lives? They would question his motives and worry about his potential to destroy, same as they did with Spider-man.

I don't think I like the S symbol being an artifact from Krypton like this trailer suggests. Also don't like the muscle striation look of the S. Otherwise, this should be an awesome movie.

[Carnage]

The other link went bad:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf079i7Gq3E&feature=player_embedded

[Assassin]

This gives me a boner


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVu3gS7iJu4

[Animeniax]

Saw this trailer on AotS the other day, looks absolutely amazing. I like the darker turn this story appears to follow, rather than the usual boy scout role for Superman.

I know we discussed his super sperm earlier, but what about the super beard? What possible material on Earth would he use to shave the beard?

[Carnage]

I think he actually uses a mirror and lasers it off with his heat vision in the comics, if im not mistaken.

[Animeniax]

Oh nice, that explains it. Talk about precise control.

The theme of under-appreciated, distrusted hero really appeals to me here. I think it's been used with other heroes but not with Superman. He's always been this symbol of truth and justice that people just naturally trust and admire, which is kind of corny and unbelievable. A super-powered alien is something we'd fear and revile.

[UChessmaster]

Yep, just like in the NEW comics :P

[Animeniax]

Yep, just like in the NEW comics :P

Which part, the beard or the way we treat him?

Actually it seems they did the same in the older comics as well.
This is from a 1960s comic:

1395

Then there's this, which may or may not be canon:

1396

[UChessmaster]

The way people see superman... ugh nevermind.

[Animeniax]

Maybe they should add a character like JJ Jameson to spearhead the hate.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

Maybe they should add a character like JJ Jameson to spearhead the hate.

Nah he's not unlikable enough.... maybe you should offer yourself up for the role??

[Animeniax]

Nah he's not unlikable enough.... maybe you should offer yourself up for the role??

What'd be the point, kids like you would ignore great performances portraying me. Surprising then how Leary's Stacey somehow made a deep connection with you. I guess it doesn't take much.

[Inazuma]

Nah he's not unlikable enough.... maybe you should offer yourself up for the role??

That could do it but our Animeniax is unlikable in a H.Himmler kind of way - He is structural to Gotwoot and would only make Superman shiver like a cold day in the locker room.

[Animeniax]

That could do it but our Animeniax is unlikable in a H.Himmler kind of way - He is structural to Gotwoot and would only make Superman shiver like a cold day in the locker room.

Comparing me to a nazi? Typical right wing dummy sipping the Fox News kool-aid.

But yeah, Lex Luthor was nothing more than an intelligent person and he often bested Superman. So I could definitely fill that role.

[Inazuma]

Comparing me to a nazi? Typical right wing dummy sipping the Fox News kool-aid.


And I forgive you - for I am the lord.
Seriously though, Animeniax I might be one of the few that are not crossed by your presence here - of course for your first 200 posts I was wondering how you were not bannable material but it grows on you, that faint caustic flavor reinforced by faux-aggressive comments.
You are like Kryptonite not Lex Luthor, because you are a component of this world like Cesium 137.
Keep on going brother.

[Kagemane_no_Jutsu]

What'd be the point, kids like you would ignore great performances portraying me. Surprising then how Leary's Stacey somehow made a deep connection with you. I guess it doesn't take much.

Woahh woahhh take it easy there killer. Lets not make this another thread about your personal vendetta against Dennis Leary.
<3


Anyway I gotta say this is the first time in history that I've actually felt hyped about a Superman film. I enjoyed the character when I was younger, not as much as spidey and bats, but enjoyed nevertheless. If I had to guess I'd say this film will end up being about a 7.6 on IMDB.... not that it means much at all.... but thats where I think this one will end up. A good film, but not nearly on the level of Dark Knight or Avengers. But prolly on the level of Spiderman(2002) and almost on the level of Amazing Spiderman ;D



And I forgive you - for I am the lord.
Seriously though, Animeniax I might be one of the few that are not crossed by your presence here - of course for your first 200 posts I was wondering how you were not bannable material but it grows on you, that faint caustic flavor reinforced by faux-aggressive comments.
You are like Kryptonite not Lex Luthor, because you are a component of this world like Cesium 137.
Keep on going brother.

Don't forget to brush your knees off once you get done.

[Animeniax]

Woahh woahhh take it easy there killer. Lets not make this another thread about your personal vendetta against Dennis Leary.
<3

Anyway I gotta say this is the first time in history that I've actually felt hyped about a Superman film. I enjoyed the character when I was younger, not as much as spidey and bats, but enjoyed nevertheless. If I had to guess I'd say this film will end up being about a 7.6 on IMDB.... not that it means much at all.... but thats where I think this one will end up. A good film, but not nearly on the level of Dark Knight or Avengers. But prolly on the level of Spiderman(2002) and almost on the level of Amazing Spiderman ;D I like most of Denis Leary's work, it's not his fault the Amazing script didn't give him anything to work with.

I can't say how popular this movie will be. With the hype of the creative team of Snyder and Nolan, it should earn good box office numbers. Never really concerned myself with imdb ratings.


Don't forget to brush your knees off once you get done.
See what I have to put up with, Inazuma? No good deed goes unpunished. And you wonder why I'm always arguing with folks.

[Carnage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T6DJcgm3wNY

[oyabun]

EPICNESS.

[Animeniax]

I prefer the music from the previous trailers, it had a more somber and yet hopeful feel to it. I really like the misunderstood hero characterization over the boy scout persona of the original Superman.

But how does Jor-El know that Kal-el will have super powers on Earth? I think that's kind of hokey. If the people of Krypton did know that the yellow sun gives their people super powers, why wouldn't they send out their kids to different worlds with yellow suns and have them conquer those worlds? Why would he care that Kal-el will be a savior/hero to humankind on this insignificant little rock of a planet?

[Carnage]

I guess you'll have to watch to find out!

[UChessmaster]

But how does Jor-El know that Kal-el will have super powers on Earth? I think that's kind of hokey. If the people of Krypton did know that the yellow sun gives their people super powers, why wouldn't they send out their kids to different worlds with yellow suns and have them conquer those worlds? Why would he care that Kal-el will be a savior/hero to humankind on this insignificant little rock of a planet?

The planet of krypton had an absurdly strong gravity, because of this leaving the planet wasn`t really possible. Despite their technology, only Clark managed to escape, and that was with a prototype pod.

[Animeniax]

The planet of krypton had an absurdly strong gravity, because of this leaving the planet wasn`t really possible. Despite their technology, only Clark managed to escape, and that was with a prototype pod.

Come on, that's some "invisible walls" shit laziness right there. They could at least come up with a better explanation why this race of people would be do-gooders instead of tyrants like they had on planet Vegeta before it got blowed up.

If the gravity was strong enough to defeat rocket propulsion, then it would have crushed the bodies of the fleshbags that dwelled on the planet. And before anyone argues that their aerospace program was shit, they did manage the one rocket to save Kal-el that was capable of intragalactic travel. They could at least make space ships that could travel their own solar system.

[UChessmaster]

Come on, that's some "invisible walls" shit laziness right there. They could at least come up with a better explanation why this race of people would be do-gooders instead of tyrants like they had on planet Vegeta before it got blowed up.

If the gravity was strong enough to defeat rocket propulsion, then it would have crushed the bodies of the fleshbags that dwelled on the planet. And before anyone argues that their aerospace program was shit, they did manage the one rocket to save Kal-el that was capable of intragalactic travel. They could at least make space ships that could travel their own solar system.

The gravity did not crush them because they have super bodies, so they could handle it but their realitve "strenght" would be more or less the same as our on krypton. Yeah is not a good explanation, but keep in mind we`re talking about a 75 year old comic.

[Y]

My favorite part of that is that Animeniax considers it completely implausible that anyone with power wouldn't be a monstrous tyrant, which is the same mental blind spot that prevents Lex Luthor from understanding that Clark is Superman - he cannot conceive of a person with that kind of power who would want to be a regular, good person. So basically you're as evil and stupid as a comicbook villain.

Also (in some origins of Superman, no idea if it's canon anymore, but who fucking cares really) the Kryptonians did wage war and subjugate many star systems, but at the time of Krypton's destruction had dismantled their war machine and become a very insular and rigidly structured society that had withdrawn back to their home planet.

[Animeniax]

Evil and stupid SUPER villain to you numbnuts, a meager human no less, and yet he's managed to dog and consternate Superman for decades. The only reason Clark isn't evil is because of his upbringing with the Kents, not because of his own good nature. He's a lot like Goku: if not for certain unforeseen circumstances, they'd both have destroyed/conquered Earth.

And it's basically been dumb writing that people can't see that Clark is Superman, not because of some social psychological dissonance. He puts on glasses and acts like a pussy, and that's enough to convince people he's not the same guy? Awesome writing, and kids like you accept it.

[UChessmaster]

And here I come, to the defence of superman once again. Originally, Clark has some super muscle control (which is how he manage to hand shake without pulverizing the person`s hand), with this he makes his civilian I.D FAR skinnier, he also changes his mannerism and even his eye colors. Yes, he also wear glasses but remember, there were no easy access cameras at that time, so a person that actually knows both of them up close is very rare.

[Animeniax]

Is this canon material or something the writers added later to make it more plausible that people wouldn't see the obvious resemblance between Clark and Supes?

Back to the new trailer, I hope there's more explanation in the movie of why Jor-el hopes his son will be the savior of humankind on Earth. In that universe, with the millions of inhabited worlds and peoples, why are we the chosen people of this super man? I really really hope the "savior" storyline isn't just so we feel extra bad when humanity treats Superman with fear and hostility. It'd be too biblical and hokey.

[UChessmaster]

Define recently.

[Y]

And it's basically been dumb writing that people can't see that Clark is Superman, not because of some social psychological dissonance. He puts on glasses and acts like a pussy, and that's enough to convince people he's not the same guy? Awesome writing, and kids like you accept it.

Yeah only children care about what purpose a device serves in the story. Adults care about things like the in-universe justification and nerd minutiae.

Smart writing is inventing a cockamamie explanation for the character's dual life, dumb writing is using it in service of the story.

In Animeniax World.

[Animeniax]

Yeah only children care about what purpose a device serves in the story. Adults care about things like the in-universe justification and nerd minutiae.

Smart writing is inventing a cockamamie explanation for the character's dual life, dumb writing is using it in service of the story.

In Animeniax World.It's hilarious how you write if off as nerd minutiae to expect a decent explanation for why people can't see the obvious resemblance between Superman and Clark Kent, yet you spend all this time citing nerd minutiae in all of your arguments in every thread.

If you really cared about the importance of purpose, you'd question why Superman even has to hide his identity as a mild-mannered news reporter, another aspect of the story that was left unexplained and expected for kids like you to swallow. They may have addressed it in more recent stories like UChessmaster mentioned, but for the first 40-50 years of his existence, they glossed over both questions. Superman's very calling and purpose is his story, not what villain he is currently fighting. His dual identity as Kent is also a large part of the story, yet somehow not worth a decent explanation of how he manages the most basic elements of his dual life (such as how he manages to conceal his dual identity). Batman and Spiderman comics addressed the dual identities of their characters. I guess Superman isn't worth another dimension to his character, because folks like you just want to see him lift cars and shoot laser beams from his eyes.

[Y]

You're posting about the physics of Kryptonian space travel, and what super power Superman uses to preserve his secret identity, and whether something is Canon Material.

I'm talking about the purpose a character's dual life serves in the story people try to tell with him.

Someone here is being a shallow child. It isn't me. Hope this helps.

Hey man like, how does Superman even fly? This is a dumb movie for little kids!

Asking why people don't figure out that Clark is Superman is like asking why the FBI hasn't caught the Joker and executed him. It betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of like, the most elementary principles of telling a story. It's as dumb a question as wondering why the people in a horror movie don't just get in their cars and drive away from the haunted house.

The important purpose is not how "realistic" Superman's secret identity is, but what it says about Superman that who he really wants to be is a guy that changes the world not just by lifting heavy objects and punching very durable aliens unconscious but by exposing corruption and spreading the truth. You're the guy scoffing at things like that as a storytelling device because you don't understand how fiction works.

[Carnage]

I would have laughed so hard had they given Superman the Christian Bale Voice Grunt treatment.

[Animeniax]

You're posting about the physics of Kryptonian space travel, and what super power Superman uses to preserve his secret identity, and whether something is Canon Material.

I'm talking about the purpose a character's dual life serves in the story people try to tell with him.

Someone here is being a shallow child. It isn't me. Hope this helps.

Hey man like, how does Superman even fly? This is a dumb movie for little kids!

Asking why people don't figure out that Clark is Superman is like asking why the FBI hasn't caught the Joker and executed him. It betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of like, the most elementary principles of telling a story. It's as dumb a question as wondering why the people in a horror movie don't just get in their cars and drive away from the haunted house.

The important purpose is not how "realistic" Superman's secret identity is, but what it says about Superman that who he really wants to be is a guy that changes the world not just by lifting heavy objects and punching very durable aliens unconscious but by exposing corruption and spreading the truth. You're the guy scoffing at things like that as a storytelling device because you don't understand how fiction works.

And what exactly is the purpose of Superman's dual life? So he can score on news chicks in between earth-saving missions? Superman has been around for 50+ years. They've told and retold his story of saving the world and preserving peace, justice, and the American way for most of that 50 years. At some point they could address minutiae like why does he care and why does he hide behind a secret identity. According to Uchess, they have developed those stories in recent work, but the explanations remain hokey and contrived. The issue of why people don't drive away from haunted houses is almost always dealt with in the movie. They either have to spend the night to secure the inheritance or the bridge is out or they're out of gas and have to wait for the caretaker to arrive in the morning to give them a lift back to town.

Now that you mention it, I have always wondered why Superman hasn't flown to Gotham and beaten the Joker to death. You'd think with his mission to save the world and protect people that he'd take care of a mass murderer like the Joker. Oh well, I guess it's just a story device and we shouldn't think about it too hard.

[Y]

The only reason Superman doesn't rip people apart with his super strength and murder them: bad writing for kids.

In Animeniax World.

[Animeniax]

A psychopathic killer is allowed to run free and kill people at will in order to keep the superheroes clean and morally sparkling white: good writing for kids.

In Y World.

[Y]

Yeah agreed. Batman is a horribly written character. No one can actually fight armed criminals every night and not get shot in the face and killed, or fight 12 people at once and win. Another Hokey Dumb Kids Book For Babies.

"A movie is not about what it is about; it is about how it goes about it."

Remember that the next time you're demanding a stupid ass explanation for why a man who can take off and fly under his own power and shoot lasers from his eyes can maintain a dual identity.

[Animeniax]

It's been joked about how Bats never gets shot in the face, same as Robo-cop and other masked crimefighters. That doesn't mean it doesn't warrant a better explanation, but it pales in comparison to the lack of explanation how putting on glasses and a business suit is adequate to hide your superhero identity.

A good movie is about what its about as well as how its done.

[Y]

Animeniax's tagline for the new Superman movie:

You Won't Believe A Man Can Fly (Because You're A Moron Pedant)

[Animeniax]

Y's tagline for the new Superman movie:

Don't Worry, It Really Is The Same Guy. Just Keep Watching Shit Explode and This Hunky Guy Lifting Heavy Stuff!

[lilphatboi88]

I can't even understand what you guys are arguing about.

1. Why can't people recognize superman from clark?

2. Just because it's a fictional movie, the writers don't have to address certain elements of believability?

[Animeniax]

I can't even understand what you guys are arguing about.

1. Why can't people recognize superman from clark?

2. Just because it's a fictional movie, the writers don't have to address certain elements of believability?That's basically what I'm saying. Apparently Y feels moviegoers should just turn off their brains and enjoy the koolaid.

[Y]

Latest Animeniax gimmick: Quote his own dumbass viewpoints and ascribe them to other people.

[Buffalobiian]

Reminder to keep discussing Man of Steel as opposed to... anything else.

[Animeniax]

Who is the hot chick in purple at 2:28 in the newest (3rd) trailer?

[Munsu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlOF03DUoWc

[Carnage]

Looks amazing IMO, I wonder if Lex will be the Joker of the sequel. It would certainly make sense.

[Animeniax]

I have to ask again, who is the hot chick in purple?

[Munsu]

I have to ask again, who is the hot chick in purple?


Looks like this is her:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4839129/

[Animeniax]

Looks like this is her:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4839129/

Thanks, I checked the cast on imdb and couldn't figure out who it was. She looks different in these images from the movie images.

So as Jenny Olsen, it looks like her character replaces the iconic Jimmy Olsen. It explains why she's with Perry White in some of the scenes.

[Animeniax]

I think he actually uses a mirror and lasers it off with his heat vision in the comics, if im not mistaken.

http://www.howdoesheshave.com (http://www.youtube.com/gillette?x=us-en_manofsteel)

So experts like Kevin Smith actually dispute the "laser to the face" version of how Superman shaves his beard. I guess even though it's in the comic, you could challenge some depictions as being non-canon, considering how many writers and editors take a stab at the mythos over the years.

[Carnage]

Sounds like he's just fucking around for the commercial sake. Apparently he was supposed to write the script for the Superman movie with Nick Cage and Tim Burton:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgYhLIThTvk

[Animeniax]

Sounds like he's just fucking around for the commercial sake. Apparently he was supposed to write the script for the Superman movie with Nick Cage and Tim Burton:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgYhLIThTvk

Good interview. I can't say how serious he's being now, it has been a while between that time and now. It does seem gimmicky and I was surprised because I thought Smith would definitely educate every one of his competitors by backing the laser-vision shave scenario. Like in the frames I posted, even the writers developed different ways for Superman to shave his beard.

[Shadow Skill]

After watching the trailers and that 13 min behind the scenes, I think it was. Seems like Superman has been dumbed down, a lot. :/

Not sure if I should high hopes or brace for disappointment. :/

[Animeniax]

After watching the trailers and that 13 min behind the scenes, I think it was. Seems like Superman has been dumbed down, a lot. :/

Not sure if I should high hopes or brace for disappointment. :/

How do you mean "dumbed down"? He's never been portrayed as a really clever or intelligent hero, and his story hasn't ever really been that complex. He's a man of action. I think they're showing his more vulnerable and emotional side in this movie.

[Abdula]

His more vulnerable and emotional side in this movie sure because they did not do that in all the previous superman movies right. As far as "dumbed down" goes they always do that to superman and it is terrible. They nerf his powers and make him emotional and stupid, see Lois and Clark. Yes he has been portrayed as a clever and intelligent hero see All Star Superman series for one thing. Another thing, super-intelligence is one of his abilities. Besides that his father was a genius who sent him to earth with those stupid crystals which allowed him to create the fortress of solitude which supposedly contained their collective knowledge. The writers really overdid it with his powers and abilities though, to the extent that it became nearly impossible for anyone to oppose superman so they nerfed him and dumbed him down. Then DC went and made batman all smart (-'_'-)

Anyway this is a huge point of contention with me. I argue about it all the damn time. There is no way the golden boy from this super advanced utopian society is stupid, just no way and I am tired of seeing him beat up. He gets beat up as nearly as much as batman which is ridiculous. There is also that abomination of a movie that was Superman 3, not even Superman 4 but 3 the one with Richard Pyror

[Animeniax]

Intelligence can be effectively suppressed, it depends on your environment. Clark grew up on a farm in a small town, not much chance his intellect would be challenged or nurtured there. Plus the crash landing could have scrambled his brain like with Goku.

And MoS seems to treat Clark's vulnerability with more insight and understanding of the human condition, of being an outsider and wanting to belong and be normal. The original Superman movies made him a bumbling idiot and then straight pussy. A 6'4" 225lb man who is used to kicking ass wouldn't suddenly not be able to defend himself again some drunk at a diner.

[Shadow Skill]

What I am trying to say by dumbed down is he persona. He's essentially an empty shell. Why remove any element of him bring kryptonian and make him more human?

Superman can fly, has super speed on par with the flash or faster. He's fucking invincible as long as he stays on Earth and absorbs yellow sunlight. His strength is immeasurable. He has heat vision, x-ray vision, super hearing and none of which has been exploited to this day aside from the million selling comics every month.

When they make a movie it's OH lets make him more human so we as mere mortal men can relate to him"

WHY even call it superman then if he's one of us. There's really no point to want to dream of being superman anymore. Everything that set superman aside from us and him has been taken away. Superman is basically now just a lil more evolved human if you believe in evolution.

According to the behind the scenes, doesn't even look like Lois Lane is a love interest. When I say DUMBED DOWN. I mean really dumbed down cause you know, Hollywood doesn't think the 100s of millions of people who read the comics can't possibly believe Supernan needs to be up there on his pedestal.

With each movie it gets worse.

I look at Avengers where half the characters are humans who seem to fight better and have better abilities than Superman who has no limits, aside from being in a Hollywood movie.

So ya, I honestly don't know what to expect or tell myself. Superman is like Batman in a superman suit minus the cowl. :/

[Abdula]

Ah you posted while I was replying.
WHY even call it superman then if he's one of us.
That is exactly it. They try to make Superman way too human. Like Ani intimated in the Reeve movies there was no Kal-El. There was Clark Kent who pretended to be a bumbling idiot, who would then put on his superhero costume and occasionally save the day but mostly try to court Lois. In Superman Returns, again there was Clark pining about his lost love and his son. Man of Steel needs a Kal-El. A benevolent yet completely alien entity that mankind recognizes for the legitimate threat that he is.


Intelligence can be effectively suppressed, it depends on your environment. Clark grew up on a farm in a small town, not much chance his intellect would be challenged or nurtured there. Plus the crash landing could have scrambled his brain like with Goku.

And MoS seems to treat Clark's vulnerability with more insight and understanding of the human condition, of being an outsider and wanting to belong and be normal. The original Superman movies made him a bumbling idiot and then straight pussy. A 6'4" 225lb man who is used to kicking ass wouldn't suddenly not be able to defend himself again some drunk at a diner.

I will grant you your first two points but it does not really relate to his intelligence later in life unless you want to argue that people who grew up on farms are stupid. Which would just piss me off. Goku though, I can't believe you went there.

The problem is that every superman movie does that, its trite. Then it comes down to does Superman masquerade as Clark Kent or does Clark Kent Masquerade as Superman. Superman is an alien, he is supposed to be an outsider and supposed to be different, yet Bruce Wayne in the Nolan movies feels like more of alien that operates outside of societies norm than Clark Kent does. I always end up comparing the two characters and how they have developed over the years. Particularly how Clark Kent tries so hard to fit in and not draw any undue attention to himself while Bruce Wayne really doesn't give a damn. Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that Bruce Wayne is always Batman but Clark Kent is not Superman which is just weird. I am hoping that Man of Steel is less about a man who just happens to have super powers trying to fit in and explore what it means to be human and more a God among us.

I try to not be too critical of Superman movies, not that there isn't a lot to criticize but it is superman and there hasn't been quality superman movies and the first 2 were good for their time. In the scene your referring to, Clark's reaction had more to do with shock and naivete than anything else.

[Animeniax]

What I am trying to say by dumbed down is he persona. He's essentially an empty shell. Why remove any element of him bring kryptonian and make him more human?

Superman can fly, has super speed on par with the flash or faster. He's fucking invincible as long as he stays on Earth and absorbs yellow sunlight. His strength is immeasurable. He has heat vision, x-ray vision, super hearing and none of which has been exploited to this day aside from the million selling comics every month.

When they make a movie it's OH lets make him more human so we as mere mortal men can relate to him"

WHY even call it superman then if he's one of us. There's really no point to want to dream of being superman anymore. Everything that set superman aside from us and him has been taken away. Superman is basically now just a lil more evolved human if you believe in evolution.

According to the behind the scenes, doesn't even look like Lois Lane is a love interest. When I say DUMBED DOWN. I mean really dumbed down cause you know, Hollywood doesn't think the 100s of millions of people who read the comics can't possibly believe Supernan needs to be up there on his pedestal.
/

I think this movie in trying to portray Superman as more human is a dramatic change from the previous movies and depictions (except maybe more recent comics). Instead of being this monolithic unstoppable force, he's deeper and has more to him than the "pursuit of peace, justice, and Lois Lane." He is an alien and we would treat him with fear and outcast him, and he has to work through that because he grew up just wanting to be one of the guys. That's what I'm seeing in the trailers. Yes it's a bit angsty and emo, but welcome to the new millenium where finding oneself pretty much trumps all else in the human experience.

Did you miss all the parts with Jor-El saying he'd be a god to us and a beacon of light and hope to lead us?

And Lois Lane is definitely a love interest. They show them kissing in one of the trailers. I'd be happy if they didn't explore a love story in this first movie, considering how much else they need to cover.


Ah you posted while I was replying.
That is exactly it. They try to make Superman way too human. Like Ani intimated in the Reeve movies there was no Kal-El. There was Clark Kent who pretended to be a bumbling idiot, who would then put on his superhero costume and occasionally save the day but mostly try to court Lois. In Superman Returns, again there was Clark pining about his lost love and his son. Man of Steel needs a Kal-El. A benevolent yet completely alien entity that mankind recognizes for the legitimate threat that he is.

I will grant you your first two points but it does not really relate to his intelligence later in life unless you want to argue that people who grew up on farms are stupid. Which would just piss me off. Goku though, I can't believe you went there.

The problem is that every superman movie does that, its trite. Then it comes down to does Superman masquerade as Clark Kent or does Clark Kent Masquerade as Superman. Superman is an alien, he is supposed to be an outsider and supposed to be different, yet Bruce Wayne in the Nolan movies feels like more of alien that operates outside of societies norm than Clark Kent does. I always end up comparing the two characters and how they have developed over the years. Particularly how Clark Kent tries so hard to fit in and not draw any undue attention to himself while Bruce Wayne really doesn't give a damn. Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that Bruce Wayne is always Batman but Clark Kent is not Superman which is just weird. I am hoping that Man of Steel is less about a man who just happens to have super powers trying to fit in and explore what it means to be human and more a God among us.

I try to not be too critical of Superman movies, not that there isn't a lot to criticize but it is superman and there hasn't been quality superman movies and the first 2 were good for their time. In the scene your referring to, Clark's reaction had more to do with shock and naivete than anything else.
If your point is to rag on the first 4 Superman movies then you'll find no argument from me. They were pretty bad in hindsight, but the first 2 were amazing in their time. There was mention of Kal-el and he watched the recorded footage of his father, but I think the writers felt they wouldn't need to explore his alien roots because that wasn't their goal. They probably felt that a man who could fly/lift heavy stuff/shoot lasers from his eyes was alien enough to their viewers. Of course this was the 70s and 80s and nowadays he'd be a pretty boring character if that was all he could do.

But MoS seems to address some of your concerns, though not the one about being a God among humans. I don't think that will ever be part of Superman. His entire character and history is about being one of us, even though he could rule us.

[Shadow Skill]

He's a grown up man... wanting to fit in and be one of the guys. Should have ended when he became an adult.

I stopped worrying about what other people thought when I had to get a job and support myself. I don't understand why Hollywood would make a grownup superhero in a movie act like a teenager.

Sure for Batman that worked, but this is Superman. I honestly don't know. I hope the movie does well, for sequels or more Superman movies.

I just hope one day Hollywood gets it right.

To the Goku comment. Even with all the canon available to Hollywood, they still managed to ruin a Dragon Ball movie lol. Lets forget the Live action DB even exists.

[Animeniax]

Not if you spent your entire adolescence and teenage years not fitting in and feeling like an outcast. Young adults today don't feel like they fit it, so just imagine how an actual alien with scary dangerous powers but a kind heart would feel.

If you handled it better then good for you. I'll admit (and I'm sure it's evident) that even in my 30s I still don't feel like I fit in and I'm still trying to find myself. Shit I hardly fit in on a forum full of weirdos like myself. If you added super powers and the ability to lash out without consequence, you'd have heard about me on the news by now.

I wasn't talking about the live action DB stuff, but his story in the anime/manga is similar to Superman. They just chose good for different reasons, but they both have the potential to be destroyers.

[Shadow Skill]

True and good points. I think Superman should never be one of us. Not Kal'El or Superman.

Smallville did a good enough portrayal of Clark Kent trying to fit in to be human. I don't think any new Superman movies should be trying to cover that aspect. Man of Steel/Superman... why not just go with that.

I can't help but think back to the anime Gurren Laggan where every episode got more epic and more climatic to the last episode even then it got more over the top epic. Sure the suit kept transforming, but I would like to see a Superman movie where he's not a wuss and a puss and limited to flying 1000km/hour and has no powers. That's not Superman at all. I think this is why Avengers did so well. They had their powers and they made full use of them throughout the movie no limits.

So what if he fights another enemy as strong as him and he is sent hurtling half way around the planet. Don't let him get up like he got hit with a kryptonite punch and is now wobbling and disoriented. Let him get up and fight like he should and use all his powers and more. I'd rather watch a proper Superman movie that fails at the box office than one that trying to relate to normal men. :/

[UChessmaster]

I agree with Animeniax *implodes*

[Sapphire]

This is out in just six days! I'm excited.

--


First off, was this stated? How can Superman not know that having a bunch of unprotected sex with Lois Lane is going to get her pregnant? He isn't a sheltered highschooler. Plus he can see atoms, I don't think he'd fail to notice a pregnancy. I just assumes his tour in space took WAY longer than he intended. In any case, Superman abandoned Lois for nebulous and poorly fleshed out reasons (handled largely in a TEXT CRAWL at the start of the movie) and combined with his Super-Stalking later in the movie just comes off as a creepy asshole.


I think he could hear the sperm pierce the egg when he laid his super-sperm inside her. Shit, his ejaculation should have caused internal hemorrhaging for Lois.

But plot holes aside, maybe the birds and the bees work differently on Krypton, or maybe his adoptive Aunt and Uncle never taught him about sex ed. He was raised in a rural setting where they have conservative values and don't believe in sex ed in schools, only prayer.

Oh dear god, I feel so primed to watch this movie thanks to these posts.

[Animeniax]

This is out in just six days! I'm excited.

Oh dear god, I feel so primed to watch this movie thanks to these posts.

All the talk about sex in those posts + Henry Cavill = wet Sapphy. I'll admit, and no romo, but Cavill is a good looking dude. I don't think Amy Adams quite fits as Lois Lane, though Margot Kidder wasn't particularly hot whereas Reeves was also a manly man and a good looking dude.


True and good points. I think Superman should never be one of us. Not Kal'El or Superman.

Smallville did a good enough portrayal of Clark Kent trying to fit in to be human. I don't think any new Superman movies should be trying to cover that aspect. Man of Steel/Superman... why not just go with that.

So what if he fights another enemy as strong as him and he is sent hurtling half way around the planet. Don't let him get up like he got hit with a kryptonite punch and is now wobbling and disoriented. Let him get up and fight like he should and use all his powers and more. I'd rather watch a proper Superman movie that fails at the box office than one that trying to relate to normal men. :/I never watched Smallville so I'm happy to see them explore Clark as a human. From the trailers, I don't think he's trying to fit in so much as trying to understand his origins and purpose. As a kid he tries, but as a man he seems to be a loner trying to stay under the radar. It kind of feels like "I am Number 4" except Clark is smarter about hiding his abilities until someone is in grave peril.

The thing with making Superman too super is that he's then an automaton and not a person. Plus if he's fighting enemies as strong as him, he can't just shrug off their attacks, he will feel the pain and it will be a struggle to beat them.

[Abdula]

Not if you spent your entire adolescence and teenage years not fitting in and feeling like an outcast. Young adults today don't feel like they fit it, so just imagine how an actual alien with scary dangerous powers but a kind heart would feel.

If you handled it better then good for you. I'll admit (and I'm sure it's evident) that even in my 30s I still don't feel like I fit in and I'm still trying to find myself. Shit I hardly fit in on a forum full of weirdos like myself. If you added super powers and the ability to lash out without consequence, you'd have heard about me on the news by now.

That is just it though. It is incredibly unrealistic that such a being would try to fit in. I don't really fit in, never have and I don't try to. Most people would find me weird and I accept that because I am very different from what most people would expect me to be. You're looking at it from the pov of a human being trying to find his place among other human beings and Superman is not. You said you find it hard to fit in, imagine if you had incredible strength, speed, hearing, the ability to defy gravity. If you didn't feel hot or cold, didn't need to eat, couldn't shave normally. Didn't allow others to get physically close to you because they would ofcourse notice that your skin is nigh impenetrable etc. Not to mention the constant strain of having to control your abilities for fear of unintentionally hurting someone. Hell have you ever accidentally cut your finger, stubbed your toe, got burnt, felt like you were in mortal danger. He never has. For a being like that wouldn't trying to fit in an be normal only make you feel worse. When you try to fit in and discover that no matter how much you try you just don't, doesn't that only make you feel worse. The constantly trying to be like everyone else when you are not and repressing yourself will only drive you insane. Anyway that is my point, they keep making superman into a human being with powers when he is not a human being at all and has never had to deal with experiences most human beings have had to. The perspective is all wrong

It is too bad that you still don't feel like you fit in though. I find it funny that you think you would lash out at everyone. Why is that and particularly why do you want the ability to do so without consequences? There are always consequences and from reading your posts, when you feel like you can act without consequences you become an ass.




So what if he fights another enemy as strong as him and he is sent hurtling half way around the planet. Don't let him get up like he got hit with a kryptonite punch and is now wobbling and disoriented. Let him get up and fight like he should and use all his powers and more. I'd rather watch a proper Superman movie that fails at the box office than one that trying to relate to normal men. :/
That is another thing, not just that he seems to get physically hurt when he shouldn't but there have been times when he just stands around having a fist fight with someone and nothing happens. It reminds me of Hercules: The legendary journeys, show was awesome by the way. Hercules would punch Ares for example and he would go flying, get back up, dust himself off, walk back over to Hercules and punch him right back and send him flying in turn. Yet with superman you don't see that happening much. A battle between two superpowered nearly invulnerable beings would do more damage to their environment than they would to each other. Yet that is usually really downplayed.



I never watched Smallville so I'm happy to see them explore Clark as a human. From the trailers, I don't think he's trying to fit in so much as trying to understand his origins and purpose. As a kid he tries, but as a man he seems to be a loner trying to stay under the radar. It kind of feels like "I am Number 4" except Clark is smarter about hiding his abilities until someone is in grave peril.


Which is why I am looking forward to this.

Clark in smallville was just terrible absolutely terrible. He was a whiny, angsty, emotionally needy child and that was when he wasn't being schizophrenic. The show started out good and showed promise but there was little character development.

I think Sapphire was being sarcastic, but maybe not.

[Shadow Skill]

The thing with Hercules the legendary journeys was that the show was fun to watch. They exploited his strength every episode, as they should. Why have all these powers and then downplay them? They do that in every Superman movie so far, in the 78/80s movies.

Only Superman Returns did they show his strength but wasn't even all his strength when he lifted the continent size land to space.

Sounds like Man of Steel, his powers will be downplayed even more to make him more human, which I think is total BS. Hell, they even removed his family crest from his cape.

I am just hoping it doesn't bomb at the box office.

[UChessmaster]

@Abdula: You seem to have an interesting notion of what Superman is. How is it that you correlate being strong to having no feelings or emotions? Why do you think he struggles giving handshakes? What makes you think he`s never been in danger considering all the times he`s been exposed to kryptonite and beaten by all these intergalactic enemies he faces regulary?

[Abdula]

I do have interesting notions of what superman is, so does Ani and Y and everyone else I think. I am not trying to imply that he has no feeling or emotions. I really don't know how you came to that conclusion. I don't expect him to feel the same way I do about the same things I do anymore than I would expect you to though. I certainly don't expect to see a movie all about that. Bruce Wayne had a love interest but once he wasn't in cape and cowl he didn't spent all his time pining about her, In the incredible hulk Bruce Banner had a love interest too but the movie wasn't all about that. Do you remember that time travel nonsense from the end of the first Reeve movie, do you remember him giving up his responsibilities and powers and everything else to be with Lois in the second movie and nearly doomed the world. Do you remember him going back to smallville in that abomination of a third movie Superman 3: The Angry Drunk Within. In Superman Returns again he spent most of his time both in an out of costume pining over Lois and wondering whether the kid was his or not. We really don't need more melodrama about some lonely love sick puppy who just happens to have superpowers.

Well if I was strong enough to crush tempered steel without a thought and my skin could deflect bullets I would definitely worry about having to shake someone's hand. They tend to treat his superpowers like he has an on and off switch instead of treating him like a superpowered being who constantly has to control his strength. Like in the Reeve's movies someone would bump into him from behind and he would fall from the unexpected weight which in reality someone like him would barely even notice but when in costume he can catch a falling helicopter without pause. They don't present it as him making a conscious effort to fall naturally. I especially dislike scenes where he takes off his glasses opens his shirt and his entire demeanor changes, like there is suddenly this halo of power radiating from him. Peter Parker doesn't transform when he gets in costume so why does Superman.

You mean in the comics right because this is an origin movie so he would not yet be exposed to any of that. Secondly as has been explored a few times before superman does not feel fear like regular people do. If someone pulls a gun on him he does not fear for his life like a cop would. If he goes into a burning building he does not have to fear the building collapsing on top of him like a firefighter would, not to mention the fire itself would mean nothing to him. It is funny that in a lot of ways Will Smith's character in Hancock behaved more like what I expect from Superman than Superman did in any of his movies.

[Animeniax]

You guys would really want to see two guys hit each other back and forth with no damage to either just the environment being destroyed? What would be the point? And it's not that Superman is invulnerable, there just aren't a lot of beings with the power to harm him. But considering Zod and his soldiers are also from Krypton then they have the same abilities as Kal-el from the yellow sun. So they should be able to hurt each other.

@Abdula: if you really can stand alone as you say then you're one of the few exceptions. Maybe you've accepted that you're not like everyone else and you don't want to fit in, but that's environment and not by nature. Human beings are innately group/pack animals.

If Kal-el had arrived as a man he may not look to fit in, but he arrived as a baby and was nurtured as a human child. He was taught to share, care, and play nice with others. Other beings with his abilities may arrive and look to be a god among men, to help them and protect them, and others may come looking to destroy and conquer. But these are grown men who grew up embracing their power and abilities. Clark grew up fearing and trying to hide his abilities so he would fit in, like his foster parents taught him. I think the 2nd trailer clearly demonstrates that when Jonathan Kent tells young Clark he shouldn't use his powers in public. Clark responds, clearly distraught and in conflict, "what was I supposed to do, just let him die?" The prohibition is so strong that Jonathan replies, "maybe," though they cut off the scene and maybe cut and pasted it for the trailer.


Peter Parker doesn't transform when he gets in costume so why does Superman.

Peter Parker does change drastically when he gets in costume. His behavior, confidence, and even arrogance shine when he's under the mask. Peter doesn't make smart alecky remarks, Spider-man is known for them. While I agree the change from mild mannered Clark Kent to Superman is ridiculous, it's not unheard of.

[UChessmaster]

I read your whole post Abdula and i just don`t quite understand what is it that you want from THIS movie.

[Abdula]

Not much actually. I am pretty much just mentioning a few gripes I have with Superman's portrayal in general.

@Ani:
I would love to see that but not simply because I think it would be awesome but because it is what has been established. Just think of the hulk in action. Yes Supes is not completely invulnerable but that is mostly semantics, There are things that can harm him but aside from those he is invulnerable. I expect him to get hurt if he gets into a fight with a fellow kryptonian or someone of similar power but I would expect a ton of collateral damage, similar to the fight in Hancock. It is more a matter of staying consistent with the physics than anything else. Strength is strength, force is force, mass is mass and density is density.

Ah my point exactly. Superman is not like anyone else and it is not so much about whether he would want to fit in or not but that of all people he should accept that he cannot. You said it is environment and not nature and humans are innately pack animals but Superman is not human so why would he be like us. How much is nature and how much is environment. Why would a completely alien entity behave so much like one of us even if he was raised by us. Is a white parent different from a black parent or an asian parent. Is an American parent different, from a British parent or a Canadian one. Is an extremely rich parent different from an extremely poor parent and are they different from one who is middle class. Yeah they are different but are the differences inherent and is that at all relevant because they are all human and superman is not.

Yes and I hope that they do a better job of exploring that in this one. Growing up with powers as opposed to suddenly developing them. Trying to fit in as opposed to embracing your differences. The innate differences between a kryptonian and a human being, not just their physical abilities. Blah blah. There is a lot they can do with a superman movie, if they wish to make it more than just an action movie without being like the previous movies.

Yes but Peter Parker and Spiderman don't seem like two different people. It is more like guy at work and guy hanging out with friends. You don't really question who he is. But the change Clark goes through is way better than it being Clark Kent all the time and superman is just an act.

[Animeniax]

You've seen the familial love of Kal-el's mother and father, it's very much like any loving human family. They used their only escape craft to spirit their son to safety in another solar system while they stayed on their dying homeworld. He is very much a product of his environment and if he hadn't been fostered by the Kent's he could have turned out like any punk kid, just with scary powers... think Mike Tyson.

[Abdula]

Ah yeah I love the known fact that parental love towards a child is universal, and ofcourse alien parents would not behave any differently from loving human parents. Not mocking you specifically just the general idea that the utopian alien society must be just like ours. You are right though, and in some origin stories his parents went so far as to pick the Kent's specifically. Smallville went even further and said that Jor-El had come to earth before as part of some Krytonian coming of age ceremony or rite of passage and had met the Kents when they were younger.

I see you are of the opinion that upbringing is everything, they covered that in Red Son (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son). I'm not really big on the whole indoctrination thing.

[Shadow Skill]

I am not saying let them destroy the entire surface the Earth as they fight, but come on, when Superman fights another being with equal powers, it's like a 2 second fight, he gets hits, wobbles around for a second, gathers up all his thoughts, then lays waste to the bad guy. Seriously, 2 beings with equal powers, with the ability to not feel pain or be hurt aside from kryptonite. Why add the human touch to it? Take 2 normal men, we fight, we take many punches to the face. Take 2 Kryptonians, their strength, muscle and healing/regenerative abilities are equal. So it would be like a man vs man fight. Infact, the way I see it, Superman if he got punched by Zod, with his stronger muscle and no force can move him like he is cemented in the ground, should end up as a fight like 2 normal people fighting. 2 equal forces... We will never see a proper action fight scene of Superman vs a bad guy.

It's never an actual real fight of action...

They want to humanize Superman and just make him an an evolved human with emo persona instead, then so be it.

[Shadow Skill]

Crap lag mad eit post twice, since I clicked twice before it refreshed lol. Sorry for double post, lol

[Sapphire]

They want to humanize Superman and just make him an an evolved human with emo persona instead, then so be it.

For the record, grown-up superman doesn't look emo in the trailer at all, he looks really rather zen. I don't know anything, though.

[Animeniax]

I am not saying let them destroy the entire surface the Earth as they fight, but come on, when Superman fights another being with equal powers, it's like a 2 second fight, he gets hits, wobbles around for a second, gathers up all his thoughts, then lays waste to the bad guy. Seriously, 2 beings with equal powers, with the ability to not feel pain or be hurt aside from kryptonite. Why add the human touch to it? Take 2 normal men, we fight, we take many punches to the face. Take 2 Kryptonians, their strength, muscle and healing/regenerative abilities are equal. So it would be like a man vs man fight. Infact, the way I see it, Superman if he got punched by Zod, with his stronger muscle and no force can move him like he is cemented in the ground, should end up as a fight like 2 normal people fighting. 2 equal forces... We will never see a proper action fight scene of Superman vs a bad guy.

It's never an actual real fight of action...

They want to humanize Superman and just make him an an evolved human with emo persona instead, then so be it.

They may both be Kryptonian but that doesn't make them equal in strength and muscle. Cavill/Superman is bigger and more muscular guy than Shannon/Zod and that has to count for something.


For the record, grown-up superman doesn't look emo in the trailer at all, he looks really rather zen. I don't know anything, though.
That's what I see too. Nothing in the trailers suggests that he's emo as a man, just unrooted and looking for purpose. Even as a loner vagrant, he looks stalwart and self-assured. When he is younger, sure he seems a bit emotional.

[Shadow Skill]

You missed the point I was making of every action having an equal opposite reaction. His body being super should actually allow him to absorb the kinetic energy from attacks and not send him flying like a lil girl.

The emo comment was too far I admit, since I haven't seen the movie yet. With it having a darker feel and atmosphere, I am kind of thinking it will have that emotional touch as he is Superman. The point of this reboot movie is to make Superman more human and less of an alien. So I am inclined to believe he will be Emoman.

[Animeniax]

Well you're assuming Earth physics applies to alien life forms, which apparently it doesn't because he can fly, shoot lasers from his eyes, breath in outer space, etc. And even if his body can handle powerful strikes, it doesn't mean that it won't move him or send him flying. Think in terms of a medicine ball. It's heavy, dense, and seemingly impervious to damage, but a big enough racket or bat swing could move it as easily as a tennis ball without damaging it.

I don't know that they are trying to make him less alien. The trailer shows that mankind fears and questions his motives, hence his seclusion and taking odd jobs. Even as Superman the military has him in handcuffs and are interrogating him. I see them treating him more like Batman and Spider-man are treated... hope and praise from some, but anger and fear from others. I think it's a refreshing change from the usual way people accept and celebrate him, which is completely unrealistic. I don't think he'll handle it any worse than Spider-man or Batman and he won't cry himself to sleep at night. He'll just keep doing what he does, not to be accepted or to change minds, but because it is what he is.

[Abdula]

Ah finally. I agree with your second paragraph completely. Both Superman's behavior and society's ready acceptance of him have been completely unrealistic. As for your first paragraph, the problem with the physics is consistency. I don't remember it being a major problem in Superman Returns but the earlier movies were so terrible I don't even want to mention it. Like I'll tear through steel like its tissue paper but when I hit you with a steel pole you get hurt, I punch you and you don't go flying but hit you with a pole and you go flying through a building.

The other really inconsistent thing has been his powers. They tend to nerf his powers alot generally speaking which is fine, we don't need to see silver age superman but I don't want to see him struggle to stop a plane, then lift a continent. I don't want to see him get shot by a tank and get hurt. If Iron man can take some damage he can certainly take more. But let me stop before I mention all the things the movies did wrong.

I think this movie should be good, it should easily be the best Superman movie, all is has to do is outdo Returns.

[Shadow Skill]

Hope it does well.

Be like watching Batman begins :P

[Sapphire]

What da fuck? It's only 11 AM and there's already people waiting in line for tonight's midnight showing of Man of Steel.

[Abdula]

It always amazes me how much people in this country seem to enjoy waiting in lines unnecessarily. It must be that burning need to be among the first to do everything. I probably won't go see this till next week.

[Sapphire]

Lol people are all out CAMPED OUT here right now.

The smart ones (like me) are hanging out in a different auditorium watching other movies instead of the long ass line rofl

Reminds me of the epic Doctor Who premier in Manhattan that people camped out for THREE DAYS for. But I managed to forge a pass and get in (got cocky, got caught, had to change my disguise and forge another pass, punched someone (accidentally), etc rofl)

[Shadow Skill]

Lol I live in a small town, we wont get it until next week.

Nice to see it did 44.1 Million Friday Night.

[lilphatboi88]

Was alright. I give it a 7. Some character development was a bit weak.

[Munsu]

Watched it on Sunday, was a bit disappointed... enjoyable enough. Loved the action and how they completely fucked up Metropolis, etc. but quite lamented how little character interaction there was. Did Superman have more than 3 lines in the whole movie? The flow of the movie was off for me too.

That said, I liked the atmosphere and I think some cool stuff will happen as this movie series continues.

[Sapphire]

I think the movie would have been a lot better if they got rid of ALL the flashbacks, or at least wove them in as well as they were woven in in Watchmen. The flashbacks were just exhausting.

I think the main problem was none of this movie was thrilling. It was as if it was just recounting a story we all know already without refashioning it the way Nolan usually refashions stuff. Of course, Cavill himself was orgasms on a plate, though.

How the hell does this movie have an 8.2 on IMDB right now?

-

That said, lots of people complaining about the lame romance plot. I quite like how the romance was tacked on and not the focus of the movie. To me, it was quite enough that Lane is a bright, brave and moral woman who wasn't afraid to get into deep shit, and Superman is super... man. Considering the scale of the catastrophe and the amount of hormones that much have been unleashed after all that madness, prematurely acting on partially developed feelings at the end and kissing seems perfectly reasonable to me. Guys, we all know that the first thing we would do after literally flying saving around humanity is jump the bones of the person we saved humanity with if they were Superman/Lane tier awesome.

[Abdula]

Saw this Teusday and loved it. I think even more of it now that it has had some time to sink in. Not in the mood to write a page long review though. So I'll just mention a few things. Spoilers!

Munsu mentioned the atmosphere and I loved it. They opted out of the typical superhero presentation and went with a more sci-fi alien among us feeling which was fantastic because it fits perfectly with my idea of Superman. Returns had more of what I would describe as a high fantasy setting.

The lack of character interaction and character development was fitting. Its Superman not Batman or Ironman or Spiderman. He is very much a man apart. Whether it was during his childhood or as an adult he did not interact much with the people he was around which would be natural considering the secrets he was keeping and his desire to avoid attention and exposure. It fits, it works, it is fine. It is not as if he lacked charisma or personality. Another point Brandon Routh was too damn pretty to play Superman but he fit Returns' theme.. Cavill is far more rugged.

Uh, the flashbacks. There were too many of them and they made the first half of the movie very disjointed but not much could really be done about that since they didn't seem to want to go the natural progression route. Show his childhood, teens and him as a young adult yet wanted to cover most of that and have it out of the way so that it didn't interrupt the action heavy latter half of the movie.

My favorite parts of this movie.
The suit. The suit did not make an appearance until it was given to him. He did not reveal himself until he was forced to and that line about not trusting Zod but not trusting humanity either was beautiful. His abilities were handled well. I absolutely loved the sensory overload. I hated that Zod and company were perfectly able to use and control all of their abilities immediately after they were freed from the phantom zone in Superman 2. Including the ability to breathe in space.

Zod. Zod was fantastic, great actor, great character, great writing. His reasoning and motivation were clearly defined and easy to understand as opposed to the generic I want to rule the world character he was previously portrayed as. Kal El's natural birth and the codex were a nice angle and a much better explanation of what makes him so different from other Kryptonians.

Both Johnathan Kent and Jor El were really well done. I particularly like that they stuck to just Martha as his sole surviving parent and that Johnathan's death was as a result of a conscious decision by Clark not to save him as opposed to something stupid like a disease or the stereotypical heart attack.

There were so many good things about this movie that a sequel could build on but there are only two more that I really want to mention. Lois's character and her relationship was handled really well. It was not a major focus of the movie, thank god for that, but their interaction was nice. He saved her when they first met, she naturally tracked him down and when she finally found him opted to keep his secret and not out him despite her initial intention. She kept his secret even after she was detained and he in turn tried to protect her and they did away with that entire dynamic of Clark keeping his identity a secret from her and dating her as Superman which was always pretty stupid.

The other thing I really liked is that this Kal El is not so mild mannered and they established right away that not only is he not overly concerned with collateral damage but he is willing and able to kill if it is necessary. Which is just fantastic. He is also much more mature than previous Supermen and displayed a much better understanding of human nature. He also regularly identified himself as separate from both the Kryptonians and humans. In Returns that Superman not only wanted to fit in and have a normal life with humanity but he also abandoned earth altogether to go look for Kryptonians based on less than trustworthy information that turned out to be completely falsified.

I also love that he became a reporter and took up the whole Clark Kent identity as a way to gather information and that it would give Clark legitimate reasons for inserting himself into some of the dangerous situations he gets into. They usually have it the other way around and have Clark become Superman instead of Kal El become Clark. Hell I love that he is Kal El and not Clark Kent or Superman. I also like that unlike Reeves's and Routh's iterations of Superman, Cavill's is not stupid. Reeve's Superman was stupid by design as those movies were very campy. Routh's though, I mentioned leaving the earth based on falsified information but there is plenty more. Like not understanding that a plane's wing cannot support all of its weight. Not to mention that he did not seem to understand that a giant commercial airliner is not all of one piece and if you pull on the wing it would just come off. I mean even kids who rip the wings off of butterflies understand that much. There is also completely ignoring the maniacal villain until he attempts to destroy the world. Stupidest of all, Lex Luthor stole my kryptonian crystals and is going to use them to try to rebuild krypton on earth but I am going to fly over to that continent sized island he made from my kryptonian crystals without ever pausing to think that the kryptonian island might contain kryptonite. Enough about that movie

Again so many good things about this movie. I was hoping to see a movie for Superman fans and that is exactly what Man of Steel was. You guys don't seem to be fans though so I will wait to see what Y or Shadow Skill has to say.


I think the main problem was none of this movie was thrilling. It was as if it was just recounting a story we all know already without refashioning it the way Nolan usually refashions stuff. Of course, Cavill himself was orgasms on a plate, though.

How the hell does this movie have an 8.2 on IMDB right now?

-

That said, lots of people complaining about the lame romance plot. I quite like how the romance was tacked on and not the focus of the movie. To me, it was quite enough that Lane is a bright, brave and moral woman who wasn't afraid to get into deep shit, and Superman is super... man. Considering the scale of the catastrophe and the amount of hormones that must have been unleashed after all that madness, prematurely acting on partially developed feelings at the end and kissing seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Guys, we all know that the first thing we would do after literally flying around saving humanity is jump the bones of the person we saved humanity with if they were Superman/Lane tier awesome.
Yes the movie assumed you had prior knowledge of the Superman mythos and did not get too much into it. It is a good thing though, all the previous Superman movies were similar as Superman's story is terribly convoluted. Also there was quite a bit of refashioning. They did not reinvent the character it was more of giving us their take on what he should be besides Superman has been around for so long that he really does not need reinventing. There is more than enough out there and enough people have tried that Snyder really just needed to take what he thought works well and put it in the movie.

Do you think and 8.2 is too low or too high, I can't tell? Personally I think and 8.2 is pretty good. As a fan I would give it about a 9 but if one were expecting a typical superhero movie I could see it getting about a 7.

Yes the love interest was handled well. It was introduced and highlighted but not really focused on and the scene at the end of Clark and Lois being officially introduced at the Daily Planet was a nice touch. It would take a bit more than that for me to jump someones bones though. I tend to not make decisions when I am on emotional highs. Damn the trouble I would have gotten into if I had made decisions about very attractive women while on an emotional high.

Just wanted to mention that I thought your previous post read a lot better when it implied that you got cocky, got caught and ended up having to punch someone. It is just funnier that way.

[Sapphire]

Yes the movie assumed you had prior knowledge of the Superman mythos and did not get too much into it. It is a good thing though, all the previous Superman movies were similar as Superman's story is terribly convoluted. Also there was quite a bit of refashioning. They did not reinvent the character it was more of giving us their take on what he should be besides Superman has been around for so long that he really does not need reinventing.

And that was this movie's downfall. For example, let's say something amazingly epic happened to a friend, and they go through every effort to make the story thrilling and interesting, and pull you into what happened when they tell you about it later. Then let's say they're telling the same story to you to remind you about it, and they just hit the major plot points with no effort whatsoever to jog your memory. That's what the entire first 15 minutes (or whatever) of the movie were like. I am not even familiar with the story, but it felt like the scenes were there because they were obligatory (they weren't obligatory) and that they were a rehash. Who spends millions on a movie to rehash something on an origin movie?!

The other problems I had were that in Nolan's other movies (Say Inception and Dark Knight as the most obvious examples) something other than the physical world was at stake. They were all about mind games, the interesting pressures of guilt vs. responsibility, and the interesting dark parts of humanity and existence that we avoid thinking about. That's why they were so much like anime. This movie was... shallow. :/

Yeah, they kind of glossed over the fact that superman was treated like shit by some people and with kindness by some others. But the obvious choice would still be to save humanity, his bullying wasn't that bad at all compared to the average kid (as seen by the movie). They really could have done a lot more to drive the stakes. I mean is it really that hard to choose 8 billion sentient people over the crazed lunatic who murdered your father and was basically a douche upon meeting you? lol no (But the Joker + 2 face stakes were way more thrilling, as well as the stakes of being thrown into limbo+Mal the subconsious for Inception)


Do you think and 8.2 is too low or too high, I can't tell?

I would give this movie a thumbs down. If I were to assign it an ANN rating (http://i.imgur.com/h6UaPwl.png) it'd be 'weak, I wish I'd done something better with my time'.



Just wanted to mention that I thought your previous post read a lot better when it implied that you got cocky, got caught and ended up having to punch someone. It is just funnier that way.

Yeah, actually I elbowed someone in the nose, but I made a few tweaks for impact reasons.

[shinta|hikari]

Why did Zodd use a steel beam to try and hit Kal? Their flesh is obviously harder than steel. Using a blunt bashing weapon that is softer than the thing you are hitting does not make sense. It's like trying to smack a human with a baguette. Born to be a warrior, LOL.

I liked the final battle aside from that. The fact that a headlock killed Zod was logical because there simply seemed no other way for them to hurt each other, but it was also kind of weird how Kal can break his neck, but not simply twist it away from facing the humans (who were amazingly stupid for just watching a laser beam crawling towards them instead of walking away. Yeah, it was that slow and there were no obstacles.) if he really did not want to kill Zod.

The best part of this movie was the Asian looking alien girl. She actually looked cool while using her powers.

The rest of the movie, let's just say, did not disappoint me... because I lowered my expectations to the floor.

[Dark Dragon]

Like Shinta, i went into this movie with the lowest expectation possible.

It's a Superman movie that wasn't completely terrible and that's enough for me to like it. Overall, it did most of the things that i expect/wants from a Superman movie.

[darkshadow]

Tears...this movie was mind blowing.


Why did Zodd use a steel beam to try and hit Kal? Their flesh is obviously harder than steel. Using a blunt bashing weapon that is softer than the thing you are hitting does not make sense. It's like trying to smack a human with a baguette. Born to be a warrior, LOL.

It makes perfect sense because of physics LOL, the steel beam still weighs a fuck ton, having that weight amplified by the force that Zod puts behind it is going to be much more than just his fist.

[shinta|hikari]

Problem is, it's not going to hurt Kal at all. If Kal is stuck in place, the steel beam will just bend out of shape. If he isn't, he will simply get thrown away like with the punches, but with less damage because the object hitting him is softer than him. Just look at them crashing into buildings that also have steel beams in them (unless they miraculously avoided anything made of steel as they crash through walls at incredible speed). They get up like it was nothing. No blood or injuries, not even dirt! (LOL)

However, since the aliens aren't affected by Newton's third law of motion the entire time (that and they can fly), I will admit that I am being a bit too strict.

Zod (the warrior!) should have figured out that Jiujitsu was the true way of fighting for Kryptonians on Earth.

The speed of the battles (or rather the aliens) were also inconsistent. Sometimes they moved at almost invisible speed, but then you see them waving steel beams slowly enough for Kal to laser it. I understand that however, because a true high speed battle would look like Dragon Ball and that would just suck.

[darkshadow]

Cept force doesn't care about an objects hardness, hardness only measures how much the object will change shape if said force is applied to it; the force will still permeate and fully act on the object it's interacting with and thus getting hit with the steel beam still does more damage than getting hit with a fist.

[shinta|hikari]

hardness only measures how much the object will change shape if said force is applied to it; the force will still permeate and fully act on the object it's interacting with

That means Kal's body will not change shape (that means not getting hurt right? Because I believe if I get hit by something that cannot even change the shape of my skin, it won't really hurt?). Like I said, the force will act on him, and he will fly off, but he won't get hurt. Their fists on the other hand, should be the same hardness as the rest of their body. Even with "less" force, it should damage them much more.

In addition, the amount of force exerted by their fists already far exceed what little extra weight the steel beam can provide. Think of it in relative terms. The weight of the steel beam to the aliens is like the weight of a (heavy) pillow to humans.

[darkshadow]

That means Kal's body will not change shape (that means not getting hurt right? Because I believe if I get hit by something that cannot even change the shape of my skin, it won't really hurt?). Like I said, the force will act on him, and he will fly off, but he won't get hurt. Their fists on the other hand, should be the same hardness as the rest of their body. Even with "less" force, it should damage them much more.

In addition, the amount of force exerted by their fists already far exceed what little extra weight the steel beam can provide. Think of it in relative terms. The weight of the steel beam to the aliens is like the weight of a (heavy) pillow to humans.

Not really, the shockwave from an explosion can completely kill you, even though you'd show no external damage, and since the kinetic energy increases with the square of the speed, an object doubling its speed has four times as much kinetic energy, thus swinging the beam with as much force as zod can, the beam generates much more force than he could with a punch.

Even if the beam desintergrated on impact (your pillow analogy), the resulting force will still hurt; like smashing a bottle on someone's much harder skull.

[shinta|hikari]

That is assuming that the insides of the aliens are much softer than their skin and susceptible to damage by impact, which is obviously untrue like I said because you see them smashing into buildings with no damage.

Your bottle analogy only works because the human brain is really soft and susceptible to damage. Imagine if the brain was as tough as the skull that surrounds it, or at the very least much tougher than the bottle.

In addition, my pillow analogy isn't just about the hardness of the pillow, but also the weight. The steel beam isn't heavy to the aliens. It is light like a pillow, and by consequence should hit like a pillow.

If he used his fist however, it should have (but it didn't for some reason) at least broken skin and bruised muscle considering they are of the same hardness. The only reason I can think of for that not happening is because the aliens' hardness and toughness are much much higher than the power they can exert... that or they cannot afford to make Superman look banged up and/or dirty.

The reason why they ended that fight with a neck break is because nothing on Earth aside from that could have hurt those two. They had to make it alien muscle vs alien muscle in the end. That is why it is odd for Zod who prides himself a born and trained warrior to even think of hurting Kal with a single featherweight steel beam.

EDIT: I also wonder about your kinetic energy equation. Why did you mention speed? If we are talking about the addition of the steel beam, then weight would be its only asset. The speed in this instance is generated by Zod. In fact, the speed of the attack would decrease with the addition of the weight (but this is pointless because the weight added is puny to begin with). Think boxer vs batter, only replace the bat with a baguette.

What I was saying is that the weight of the steel beam itself, even if used with the force of an alien, is negligible to the aliens, and is not worth sacrificing the hardness of their fist.

[darkshadow]

That is assuming that the insides of the aliens are much softer than their skin and susceptible to damage by impact, which is obviously untrue like I said because you see them smashing into buildings with no damage.


Yeah, but no, just because they don't show blood everywhere or bruises doesn't mean they haven't been damaged, they just heal super fast; Zod doesn't heal on Krypton and thus they show him get cut, on earth kryptonians definitely do get damaged, but they just heal so fast it looks like nothing happened.
Forces definitely acted on them and since this isn't silver age supes, he definitely hurts for being smashed through a building, even if it's only for a split second



Your bottle analogy only works because the human brain is really soft and susceptible to damage. Imagine if the brain was as tough as the skull that surrounds it, or at the very least much tougher than the bottle.

Uhh yeah, but no again, your brain doesn't have pain receptors at all, but busting that bottle will hurt much more than just punching a person on the forehead, simply because the surface area is hit with more force; and if you are refering to a knock out, which I'm not, that is because so much force permeates through that your brain starts bouncing around in your skull, which could and has happened to supes before.



The reason why they ended that fight with a neck break is because nothing on Earth aside from that could have hurt those two. They had to make it alien muscle vs alien muscle in the end. That is why it is odd for Zod who prides himself a born and trained warrior to even think of hurting Kal with a single featherweight steel beam.

EDIT: I also wonder about your kinetic energy equation. Why did you mention speed? If we are talking about the addition of the steel beam, then weight would be its only asset. The speed in this instance is generated by Zod. In fact, the speed of the attack would decrease with the addition of the weight (but this is pointless because the weight added is puny to begin with). Think boxer vs batter, only replace the bat with a baguette.

What I was saying is that the weight of the steel beam itself, even if used with the force of an alien, is negligible to the aliens, and is not worth sacrificing the hardness of their fist.

Again this isn't silver ages supes, he had major issues holding up the oil rig tower even, the single beam is much more than a "featherweight", a tower like that made out of feathers would still weigh nothing, since even a 100 thousand feathers wouldn't even weigh more than 5kgs.

And speed is mentioned because of how weight and thus force, massively changes when accelerated; Zod can swing the beam at a much faster speed than he could punch which would make the resulting force prolly more than the tower was exerting on supes when he was holding it back, which would ofcourse make the beam desintergrate but that doesn't matter.
It was only "slow" for dramatic effect, it made perfect sense combat wise.

[shinta|hikari]

You referenced a lot of stuff that was not shown in the movie, like super healing. How was I supposed to know they were actually wounded by the crashes and dirtied by all that dust and debris, but those were simply healed and cleaned in the instant they weren't shown onscreen? I know Superman has super healing, but they did change a lot of his powers in this film.

I know the brain has no pain receptors. If you read my post, I was talking about damage. Not your brain itself feeling pain or being KOd, just simple damage. You see, when I saw them getting up again and again as if nothing was hurting them, I actually assumed that they were not being hurt. I did not know they were actually getting battered but healing and tidying up off screen.

Kal's power in the film seemed to show significant growth since the oil rig incident. He even managed to break the alien machine that was using gravity to smash a city (from within the gravity beam!). Sure he had incredible trouble at first, but then he shouted.

I maintain that since the steel beam is less durable and softer than the aliens, it should not be able to hurt them. It may allow for a faster attack (more forceful, but not really easier to land because it requires wind up and is more predictable) and better range, which are all good, but hitting enemies with pillows really fast from far away is still hitting enemies with pillows. However, I said all that with the assumption that they were not being hurt or damaged by the impact. If as you say they were actually being invisibly damaged, then the steel beam would actually be a bat than a pillow/baguette, and is a decent weapon of choice.

I am not a superman fan, nor do I know much about his history and changes to his powers. This means that my understanding of the events of the movie will differ from fans, and that is probably where our opinions diverge.

[darkshadow]

You referenced a lot of stuff that was not shown in the movie, like super healing. How was I supposed to know they were actually wounded by the crashes and dirtied by all that dust and debris, but those were simply healed and cleaned in the instant they weren't shown onscreen? I know Superman has super healing, but they did change a lot of his powers in this film.


Dirt maybe, but their wounds/bruises simply heal up much faster than us feeble humans can see.
And they really didn't change any of his powers, he only lacks his freeze breath, but other than that his strength is very much in line with many of his comic book and animated incarnations


I know the brain has no pain receptors. If you read my post, I was talking about damage. Not your brain itself feeling pain or being KOd, just simple damage. You see, when I saw them getting up again and again as if nothing was hurting them, I actually assumed that they were not being hurt. I did not know they were actually getting battered but healing and tidying up off screen.

Kal's power in the film seemed to show significant growth since the oil rig incident. He even managed to break the alien machine that was using gravity to smash a city (from within the gravity beam!). Sure he had incredible trouble at first, but then he shouted.


They heal quickly but high forces still damage them enough to get them winded/KO several times throughout the movie; the coolest character in the movie Faora even goes KO from a missle explosion, prior to that supes actually gets winded from flying through all those structures and exploding gas station, and when he gets double teamed, Faora and the big guy even KO him again for a couple seconds.
You can also hear all of them grunt in pain in several instances, supes even screams in pain when he grinds his face in that building right before Zod gets heat vision.

With the gravity machine, supes went beyond his limits, which harkens back to Jor-El's words of him having to push himself.
After he destroys it you can actually see him reaching for sunlight because that shit pretty much drained him. The flight itself is also a form of anti-gravity, he wasn't actually pushing against the machine with just his muscle like with the oil-rig.
So yeah all of the kryptionians get pretty fucked up throughout the fights, enough so even that their healing can't keep up with still feeling pain or going KO.


If as you say they were actually being invisibly damaged, then the steel beam would actually be a bat than a pillow/baguette, and is a decent weapon of choice.

It is as I say obv.


Also someone made a point about the family just standing their while Zod was trying to kill them, not true, they were very visibly boxed in; on the left there was Heat vision and on the right there was a wall and rubble, they had nowhere to go.

[shinta|hikari]

Why couldn't they have just shown us the super healing then? It would have a bit more sense for the people who aren't going to assume things that were not shown in the movie itself.

The grunting, getting winded, screaming, and lying on the ground you mentioned looked like they were just playing sports (humans do that all the time during physical activity) because there was no blood or dirt on them. Their appearance during what you say are fights where the aliens are getting pretty fucked up is counter intuitive.

Going beyond your limits is well, deus ex machina.

About Zod and the human family, the humans weren't boxed in. The heat vision was crawling towards them from Zod's eyes in a straight line. That means there is a clear path from Zod to them while the the heat vision is still to their right. If there was anything blocking their escape, it would have blocked the heat vision as well (although that would not have helped, I am just stating this to show their relative positions in the scene). They just had to run forward before the heat vision reaches them, and they had a long time to do that. In addition, they could have just ducked under the beam and ran. I know that is scary, but it is far better than just staring at a death ray for no apparent reason while it tries to kill you.

I do agree that Faora is cool.

I will bow out of this discussion because I don't see anything new or interesting coming out of it anymore. As is obvious, I am not enough of a fan or hater of Superman or the movie to keep going after all this.

[darkshadow]

Why couldn't they have just shown us the super healing then? It would have a bit more sense for the people who aren't going to assume things that were not shown in the movie itself.

I guess..



Going beyond your limits is well, deus ex machina.
Not really, what I meant is he gave it his all, that thing could've actually killed him, and if it wasn't for the sun's rays afterwards he prolly would've, or at the very least stay out of commission for a long time.



About Zod and the human family, the humans weren't boxed in. The heat vision was crawling towards them from Zod's eyes in a straight line. That means there is a clear path from Zod to them while the the heat vision is still to their right. If there was anything blocking their escape, it would have blocked the heat vision as well (although that would not have helped, I am just stating this to show their relative positions in the scene). They just had to run forward before the heat vision reaches them, and they had a long time to do that. In addition, they could have just ducked under the beam and ran. I know that is scary, but it is far better than just staring at a death ray for no apparent reason while it tries to kill you.

They were scared, plus the beam is super hot, even if you go under it or towards zod (which also puts you closer because of the wall and rubble), you'll still get burned.
But yeah they were just scared.

[Y]

The most interesting part of the new Superman movie is the physics of him hitting people with things? No wonder the movie got such mixed reviews.

[Shadow Skill]

70 % decline in profits over 1 week. :/

Does not bode well for the Flying Batman minus the cowl in a rubber suit that is apparently alien movie. :/

[UChessmaster]

Let`s ignore the fact that it was competing with Monster University and WWZ

[darkshadow]

My review is on my blog btw.

[Shadow Skill]

Just saw it tonight. I didn't like. I liked Returns more than this. The returns outfit is more awesome.

Near the end when the lex corp rig truck exploded he turns around and stares up at the fire... like wtf? He did that in a lot of the fight scenes, day dreaming while fighting? The scream was so unbelievable at the end. Lets not forget Jor-El's fight across the planet. Super weapons destroying metallic ships but only gives his flying dragon a scratch? Like WTYF!?!?!?!

I give up on Hollywood ever making a good Superman movie. So far just Superman from 1978 and Super Returns my favorites.

Not too keen on the whole our atmosphere makes them have a tough time breathing, You know, Clark spent most his childhood getting use to... and Zod and his goons take all of but 2 minutes to adjust. Uhh... ya...

The suit is just fugly. Rather than make a new suit (Batman suit minus the cowl), they should have just revised the Superman outfit cause the Superman Returns outfit is the best so far.

Ya, I did not like how this movie was portrayed.

[darkshadow]

Your arguments are almost as bad as Superman Returns is.

[Shadow Skill]

All valid

[Kraco]

Why did Zodd use a steel beam to try and hit Kal? Their flesh is obviously harder than steel. Using a blunt bashing weapon that is softer than the thing you are hitting does not make sense. It's like trying to smack a human with a baguette. Born to be a warrior, LOL.

He had been a soldier on Krypton all his life and on Earth for mere minutes (if you count only the time he was doing any fighting or related activities, which is the only time he really experienced the fancy power they have on Earth). On Kypton these folks didn't seem like anything extraordinary and used weapons just like humans do on Earth. So, it makes sense in the heat of a battle he would occasionally grab anything that might serve as a weapon out of pure instinct. Because he's a warrior and not a wussy trying to claw and slap.


Yeah, they kind of glossed over the fact that superman was treated like shit by some people and with kindness by some others. But the obvious choice would still be to save humanity, his bullying wasn't that bad at all compared to the average kid (as seen by the movie). They really could have done a lot more to drive the stakes. I mean is it really that hard to choose 8 billion sentient people over the crazed lunatic who murdered your father and was basically a douche upon meeting you? lol no (But the Joker + 2 face stakes were way more thrilling, as well as the stakes of being thrown into limbo+Mal the subconsious for Inception)

Nobody sane would have sided with the lunatic murderer, but he still had to choose to destroy perhaps the last hope he had of reviving his own people. He talked of trust, but he also had to decide whether he could trust his own people. He decided he couldn't (they had their chance, like he said).

I thought this movie quite good. The characters and their motivations worked better than what I remember of the old movies.

[Sapphire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LtxdEVYkcFo

LOL This video is so relevant.

[Animeniax]

Just saw it tonight. I didn't like. I liked Returns more than this. The returns outfit is more awesome.

Near the end when the lex corp rig truck exploded he turns around and stares up at the fire... like wtf? He did that in a lot of the fight scenes, day dreaming while fighting? The scream was so unbelievable at the end. Lets not forget Jor-El's fight across the planet. Super weapons destroying metallic ships but only gives his flying dragon a scratch? Like WTYF!?!?!?!

I give up on Hollywood ever making a good Superman movie. So far just Superman from 1978 and Super Returns my favorites.

Not too keen on the whole our atmosphere makes them have a tough time breathing, You know, Clark spent most his childhood getting use to... and Zod and his goons take all of but 2 minutes to adjust. Uhh... ya...

The suit is just fugly. Rather than make a new suit (Batman suit minus the cowl), they should have just revised the Superman outfit cause the Superman Returns outfit is the best so far.

Ya, I did not like how this movie was portrayed.Agree with you and Sapphire about pretty much everything concerning this movie. What a mess of a movie and a complete disappointment.

Some stuff that stuck in my mind as particularly bad:

Zod was bred and trained to be a warrior yet Jor-el the scientist kicked his ass in hand-to-hand combat.

Calling him "Cal" was the most obnoxious shit in a movie since Darth Vader was called "Ani".

I also thought it was ridiculous how quickly Zod and his men adapted to their new powers.

This was basically a natural disaster movie and sucked as bad as all of those.

This movie focused on the weirdest little crap and wasted so much time on that crap that could have been used on character development or relationships. I'm still stunned that Zack Snyder was involved in this mess. Wasn't surprised to see Nolan was involved though.

[Shadow Skill]

Well... all that crap in the fights doesn't = a broken neck but one headlock does... stupidest shit ever.

[UChessmaster]

Zod was bred and trained to be a warrior yet Jor-el the scientist kicked his ass in hand-to-hand combat.

Haen`t seen the movie, but in the comics Jor-el has always been a badass fighter, I can totally see him destroying Zod, same goes for his wife.

[Animeniax]

Well... all that crap in the fights doesn't = a broken neck but one headlock does... stupidest shit ever.

One of the many ridiculous aspects in this film was the Van Damme neck snap to finish Zod, as well as the entire scene leading up to it. Notice though how brilliantly they foreshadowed the finishing move minutes earlier when Zod's lieutenant does the same move on a hapless soldier while trying to get at Colonel Supporting Role.


Haen`t seen the movie, but in the comics Jor-el has always been a badass fighter, I can totally see him destroying Zod, same goes for his wife.Well hopefully with all you've read here you'll go into the movie with low expectations and actually enjoy it.

Spoiler: in the movie Kryptonians are test tube babies bred for specific roles, so Jor-el, being the top science guy on Krypton, would not have the skills to beat up the top military/fighter guy. It completely disregards a large premise of the movie: predestination of Krypton's people vs Kal-el's freedom to live as he chooses, something we earthlings represent and the reason we are worth saving.

[shinta|hikari]

Actually, the neck snap makes sense. If the objects and weapons of earth cannot do any/much damage when they smash into them, the only way to do real damage would be to use Kryptonian materials. In this case, it is the alien strength and the alien hardness (his arm) that enabled that kill.

I'm not defending the logic behind the fighting in this movie. I just find that single aspect to actually be believable. The fight would never have ended otherwise.

[Animeniax]

If that were true, then surely one of the thousand punches or kicks they hit each other with would have ended the fight sooner. If a kryptonian arm can snap a kryptonian neck, then a kryptonian fist can break a kryptonian jaw or concuss a kryptonian brain. It was an ignominious end to Zod and he deserved better, like Superman lifting his broken and beaten body into the air and snapping it in half.

Btw, wasn't it you shinta who was so upset at the lack of development for supporting characters in Amazing Spider-man? You must have hated how they used the Daily Planet staff.

Another tidbit that made this movie suck:

Lois follows Clark into the frozen unknown in her light jacket after being warned that it gets 40 below outside the camp. When she gets attacked by the ship's defenses and Clark has to cauterize her wounds, he explains with the corny one-liner, "I can do things other people can't." TRBL.

[shinta|hikari]

I won't defend how they handled the toughness of the Kryptonians and the extended battle because that is probably for flashy action scenes. What I am trying to say is that there is no reason for a headlock neck break to NOT work on Zod, and it did, so the fight ended. The muscle power of two arms can easily overpower the resistance provided by the neck muscles assuming both parties are roughly equal in strength.

[Shadow Skill]

So... their regenerative abilities, Zod having more muscle mass and physical body mass than Kal-El and being more attuned to close hand to hand combat, dies to a head lock... I honestly cannot see it. The neck muscles would probably cancel out Kal-el's arm strength. Just my thoughts on it. If his neck would snap that easily, why did none of them suffer any broken ribs or arms or legs etc etc.

Hollywood trying to tell us that the way to stop a Kryptonian is to snap their neck instead of Kryptonite? :P

[darkshadow]

...They heal.
So anything short of instant death will recover, which is also why they don't stay out cold very long, or why they don't bleed out etc..
Did you even see cavil's body when he stole the clothing? Zod does not have more muscle mass, and even if he did you'd have to be built like a fucking bear to resist a neck break with those muscles alone.

Also the simple fact that Clark has been basking in solar radiation all his life, his cells have absorbed much more which makes him physically stronger.
Heck he dealt with Nam-Ek much quicker than Faora, simply because she faced him with skill and not brawn like the big guy.

[Shadow Skill]

According to the movie, the power up is instant when absorbing yellow sunlight. :P

So I assume their powers are the same in the movie. :P

A physical hit to the face or anywhere on the body would have the same effect as a head lock, maybe even more. So I honestly can't see a head lock snapping Zod's neck. As I watch UFC (Maybe faked) Some guys in head locks and leg locks around the neck (Legs being the strongest muscle and all of any part of the body on any animal), I just can't see it, unless Zod just gave up and was like "OK Snap my neck, lets end this". :P

[darkshadow]

Ofcourse the power up is "instant", but it's not "equal", same reason why the goons have no powers and zod only gets them much much later; it increases over time.

And what? A headlock doesn't have the same effect as a hit anywhere on your body.
A headlock either chokes you out (there are no muscles to provide resistance on the throat), or your neck gets broken when your head gets twisted too far.

And nobody in UFC is looking to kill anyone either, their headlocks are just that: headlocks to choke you out, not a head twisting neck break that results in murder....seriously wtf o_O.

[Animeniax]

I won't defend how they handled the toughness of the Kryptonians and the extended battle because that is probably for flashy action scenes. What I am trying to say is that there is no reason for a headlock neck break to NOT work on Zod, and it did, so the fight ended. The muscle power of two arms can easily overpower the resistance provided by the neck muscles assuming both parties are roughly equal in strength.

I don't doubt a neck snap would kill him, I just think it was a dumb way to finish the fight. That entire scene was ridiculous, from the family cringing as the laser slowly inched toward them, to Zod's insistence on killing some more humans as some sort of final "f you" to Kal-el, to Kal-el's finishing move, to Kal-el's reaction to killing Zod, then Lois showing up when she was miles away from where they ended up. Did she hop in a cab and travel through the demolished city to see how the fight was going?

The movie was just terrible on so many levels. Really they should have just taken that second official trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVu3gS7iJu4), extended all the scenes and filled it out to 2 hours, and that would have been an infinitely better movie than MoS.


So... their regenerative abilities, Zod having more muscle mass and physical body mass than Kal-El and being more attuned to close hand to hand combat, dies to a head lock... I honestly cannot see it. The neck muscles would probably cancel out Kal-el's arm strength. Just my thoughts on it. If his neck would snap that easily, why did none of them suffer any broken ribs or arms or legs etc etc.

Hollywood trying to tell us that the way to stop a Kryptonian is to snap their neck instead of Kryptonite? :PWorse yet, Zod was genetically bred/designed to be a solider and a warrior. Clark was the natural offspring of a scientist and whatever Lara was, also probably an academic type. The chances that he turned out to be beefcake are slim, especially considering Jor-El and Lara were products of generations of genetic breeding. The chances that he could fight and beat Zod are even slimmer.

[Shadow Skill]

True dark, need an intent to kill. I concede that one.

Wasn't it mentioned they've been to other worlds, other suns/stars. They should have had previous experience dealing with the power up of the sun I would think.

@ Anime - Plus the fact Clark has/had no real combat/fighting experience.

I just think the movie was bad on so many levels.

[Animeniax]

@ Anime - Plus the fact Clark has/had no real combat/fighting experience.

That too. He spent his entire life restraining himself from fighting back, even so far as to not lay a hand on that trucker in the bar, then suddenly he's a fighting machine taking on Kryptonian soldiers bred and trained for combat and beating them all. Plus I thought Clark destroying the trucker's big rig was childish and not a good display of his supposed high moral character.

[darkshadow]

True dark, need an intent to kill. I concede that one.

Wasn't it mentioned they've been to other worlds, other suns/stars. They should have had previous experience dealing with the power up of the sun I would think.

@ Anime - Plus the fact Clark has/had no real combat/fighting experience.

I just think the movie was bad on so many levels.

They've nearly always used their breathers when going to other worlds with an atmosphere that would be hard to breath; Jor-El mentioned that Earth's atmosphere was just right, plus the xray vision didn't kick in until Zod breathed earth's air which means that the initial powerup comes from solar radiation, with the rest coming from (or at least accelerated by) the atmosphere.

Sure clark had no real combat experience, which is also why he pretty much lost to Faora.
He really wasn't doing that great against Zod either, even though him and Nam-Ek seemed more brawn oriented; it wasn't until they took flight that clark was becoming more of an equal, because guess what, he's been flying around longer and has more solar radiation stored.

Heck I'm convinced that if it was Faora with flight and laser eyes, he would've lost (again).

[Shadow Skill]

Maybe true. We will never know as I honestly think, Hollywood cannot make a good/epic Superman movie.

[Animeniax]

Basically they crammed two movies into one, the original first two movies, minus one villain and a lot of back story which I guess they assumed we already knew and didn't need rehashing. But instead of expanding on his upbringing and the events that led him to don the cape and tights, they had Jor-el spend 5 minutes telling him why he should do it.

[Shadow Skill]

Plus the 3rd person view of him in story form so the audience can see what he did up to the point he found a Kryptonian spaceship in ice (I miss the fortress of solitude).

[Animeniax]

The spaceship in ice makes more sense than an alien stronghold built on Earth. Has it ever been explained (in comics or animated series) how the fortress came to be installed on Earth?

I just hated the way the entire scene went down, though the setup was sensible. It makes sense that the discovery of the mysterious structure would lead Kal-el to sign on as muscle in order to check it out, but then it went downhill from there into a trite way to explain Kal-el's origins.

[NeoCybercoin]

So...much....destruction.

[Animeniax]

Yeah it was like a natural disaster movie, the characters are a side note and all you see is the destruction. It got to the point you didn't even focus on the characters fighting as much as the destruction they caused. I guess it was to highlight the purpose of the world engine, that it would destroy the world as we know it. But honestly did we really need to see that many buildings collapse?